MBB: Duke 79, Pittsburgh 65 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[MCFinARL]

Interesting stat--leading rebounder tonight, Quinn Cook with 10.

[tux]

Nice win, but I think the story of this game is Pitt shooting ~60% from the field in the 2nd half. Transition defense continues to be a big problem, as teams are just running downhill against us...

Tyus found his shot again. Winslow continues to struggle a bit, but hit a couple nice threes.

[Karl Beem]

Nice win, but I think the story of this game is Pitt shooting ~60% from the field in the 2nd half. Transition defense continues to be a big problem, as teams are just running downhill against us...

Tyus found his shot again. Winslow continues to struggle a bit, but hit a couple nice threes.

Now is he hurt?

[UrinalCake]

Now is he hurt?

I know your comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as it seems like the immediate reaction on fan boards when a player struggles is that he must be hurt or sick, but in this case I think it might be the case. The broadcasters said he went to the locker room with a bruised rib, and earlier in the game he landed hard on his shoulder. I know in the Miami game he also fell hard and appeared to be holding his wrist or possibly he was holding it against his chest. So I'm sure the guy isn't 100%

[MaxAMillion]

Crowd once again seems weak. You would hope the crowd could pick up a young team or affect the opponent but that no longer seems to be the case. Opposing fans certainly seem more fired up when Duke visits their building than vice versa.

[dukelifer]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

A good win. Lots of good moments but the problems on D in the second half remain a concern. Perhaps the team lost their intensity after getting up big and had a hard time getting it back- particularly after a tough road game on Sat. Nice game by Jones who found his shot. Winslow has definitely come back to earth. Seems to be banged up. Some time to work on things before a tough stretch of games.

[Channing]

Crowd once again seems weak. You would hope the crowd could pick up a young team or affect the opponent but that no longer seems to be the case. Opposing fans certainly seem more fired up when Duke visits their building than vice versa.

I noted on the game thread ... Crowd was very weak. When we brought up the ball and you could see the student section, it seemed like 70% was doing nothing. Could hear individual voices in the cheers. It was very disappointing.

[Saratoga2]

The offense went pretty much as expected. Jahlil was constantly doubled, he passed from that and Emile took advantage of the attention given to Jahlil. A lot of the offense came from Tyus, who has good shooting form and can get to the basket at times, and Quinn. Rasheed contributed when he is set up as he has good shooting form, but remains a liabiliity when he tries to force his offense. Justice hasn't yet figured how to get his points. I was glad to see him hit a couple of 3's.

In the second half, Pitt took Amile out of the scoring except for foul shots and that put most of the burden on our PG's. So, I don't think it was so much Duke lost intensity as Pitt turned theirs up.

Our 2/3 zone worked very well in the first half but Pitt figured ways to penetrate it for points inside and also hit a few 3's. Our transition defense was not all that strong. So we remain a work in progress and will need to have a stong effort to beat St John's

[Neals384]

A couple minutes into the second half they switched to man D. Later they did switch back to zone but I don't know if this team is really comfortable switching back and forth.

[uh_no]

I noted on the game thread ... Crowd was very weak. When we brought up the ball and you could see the student section, it seemed like 70% was doing nothing. Could hear individual voices in the cheers. It was very disappointing.

were you guys there? i don't know where all the hate is coming from, but in almost every game i've been to this year, the students have been great. including this one. including much of the game vs miami.

[OldPhiKap]

Solid win, still have lots to learn. Keep improving.

[Mcluhan]

I feel like Winslow is opportunistically dominant, and only opportunistically dominant.

What I mean is, when there's a loose ball, he has knack for taking it in for a dunk, or saving the possession by poking the ball to a teammate.
When you need a guy to dive on the floor and make a play, he's great.
When the other team screws up a little bit, he will likely capitalize.

Grant Hill was like this as a freshman and sophomore. We didn't run plays for him, but when the opportunity arose he would show himself to be an insane athlete with a high basketball IQ. He took care of the ball, and never forced anything.

In a way that's really tough for other teams because it's never clear how someone like Hill or Winslow's talent will manifest and impact the game, because those moments are not really part of a game plan per se. They're looming threats.

I hope Winslow will try to let the game come to him, and assert himself when things are up in the air, because that's when he really is dominant.

[roywhite]

Tasty but not satisfying.

Not quite putting it together to play good offense and good defense for two halves.

[jv001]

were you guys there? i don't know where all the hate is coming from, but in almost every game i've been to this year, the students have been great. including this one. including much of the game vs miami.

Thanks uh no, good to hear from someone that was actually there. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

Nice win, but I think the story of this game is Pitt shooting ~60% from the field in the 2nd half. Transition defense continues to be a big problem, as teams are just running downhill against us...


In the Duke basketball newspaper in my head, that's more of a side story rather than THE story. I would say my front-page lead story would be Duke's mostly great offensive play against Pitt one game after having a mostly very good offensive game against Louisville. I think our offense has broken out of its mini-slump, which is great to see.

But yeah, going forward, we'll need to improve the zone or improve the man, and my gosh, let's get back in transition!

[gurufrisbee]

The ball movement was so good tonight. That looked awesome.

[uh_no]

Tasty but not satisfying.

Not quite putting it together to play good offense and good defense for two halves.

the 133 defense in the second half to counter the 83 in the first half was not so happy.....

it seemed to me we played more man in the second half...but that could be just appearance.


one thing i really liked was okafor's ability to handle the double team...instead of pushing it, he identifies his outs BEFORE he makes a move....made several good passes to amile for easy points (like on the first possession if i remember), as well as great passes to wide open shooters. HUGE improvement....and it's showing in amile's performances.

the zone LOOKS better, IMO....and the press worked well....but the second half was just so ehhhh left a bad taste in ma mouth

[Channing]

were you guys there? i don't know where all the hate is coming from, but in almost every game i've been to this year, the students have been great. including this one. including much of the game vs miami.

Just my observations of seeing a stagnant crowd ... I don't know why being there would give me any different perspective.

[roywhite]

Duke 79, Pitt 65 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209856559)

Strange but true:

Duke's leading scorer -- Tyus Jones (22)
Duke's leading rebounder -- Quinn Cook (10)
Duke's leading assist man -- Jahlil Okafor (5)

[uh_no]

Just my observations of seeing a stagnant crowd ... I don't know why being there would give me any different perspective.

because TV cameras and microphones don't tell the whole story.

from someone who was there, the crowd was fine. the students packed the student section and were loud the whole game.

[subzero02]

The offense went pretty much as expected. Jahlil was constantly doubled, he passed from that and Emile took advantage of the attention given to Jahlil. A lot of the offense came from Tyus, who has good shooting form and can get to the basket at times, and Quinn. Rasheed contributed when he is set up as he has good shooting form, but remains a liabiliity when he tries to force his offense. Justice hasn't yet figured how to get his points. I was glad to see him hit a couple of 3's.

In the second half, Pitt took Amile out of the scoring except for foul shots and that put most of the burden on our PG's. So, I don't think it was so much Duke lost intensity as Pitt turned theirs up.

Our 2/3 zone worked very well in the first half but Pitt figured ways to penetrate it for points inside and also hit a few 3's. Our transition defense was not all that strong. So we remain a work in progress and will need to have a stong effort to beat St John's

It's Amile Jefferson and Justise Winslow... Transition defense is definitely a concern as is the health of Winslow

[KandG]

999 for Coach K. I like that number, maybe even more than 1000. So I'll type it again: 999.

Solid offensive performance, but the team is now finding itself in the awkward (if predictable) position of determining its defensive identity after making a major philosophical and tactical change. Would not be surprised to see at least one, maybe two losses on the road over the next couple of weeks as Duke figures out when the zone works best and how to effectively guard man-to-man when the zone isn't effective.

Also, the team really needs to be more alert in transition -- second half felt like a return to getting the ball run down their throats too easily.

Tyus was very good, and Sheed was especially effective in playing within himself for the first two-thirds or so of the game, though he should never be allowed to handle the ball for more than a couple of seconds when the opponent presses except as a last resort.

[ChrisP]

Solid win if not overly impressive against a solid (if not overly impressive) Pitt team. As the announcers pointed out during the broadcast, Jamie Dixon is a very good coach and has built a program at Pitt that has been pretty successful. So, I'll take it.

Glad to see Rasheed shooting it so confidently and so well! Now, if he could just work on that shaky handle a bit...that would be (as my old boss Bill used to say) GREEEAAAT.

I think the #1 thing I'm happiest about tonight is Amile's much-improved FT shooting.

I think the #2 thing I'm happiest about tonight is that Marshall didn't squash that poor guy like a bug or break him in half with his knee.

[DU82]

because TV cameras and microphones don't tell the whole story.

from someone who was there, the crowd was fine. the students packed the student section and were loud the whole game.

And sometimes, certain schools mic their students to make it seem louder on TV. (Cough, Cheaters, Cough.)

I thought the students, like the team, got a bit complacent in the second half, but overall were fine.

[walras]

were you guys there? i don't know where all the hate is coming from, but in almost every game i've been to this year, the students have been great. including this one. including much of the game vs miami.

I was there. Since 1978 I've always been there. The crowd was great. Where are you all getting that stuff about a weak crowd? When the students are there, there have been no empty seats and it's been really loud and responsive.

[fuse]

A lot to like about this game.
I hope Winslow is ok.

I still think killer instinct is a missing ingredient, and I am more than happy with how we are improving game to game. Lots more basketball to be played.

[jv001]

Duke 79, Pitt 65 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209856559)

Strange but true:

Duke's leading scorer -- Tyus Jones (22)
Duke's leading rebounder -- Quinn Cook (10)
Duke's leading assist man -- Jahlil Okafor (5)

There were times that Tyus normally get's an assist, but passes were fumbled and at least on one occasion Jahlil could have dunked the ball as soon as he received it, but instead he put the ball on the floor and lost it. The guys seemed to get ahead of themselves. Sort of like a wide receiver dropping a pass by taking his eye off the ball. These things are not hard to correct and we have time to work on them before the next game. Great game for Tyus and the team. GoDuke!

[uh_no]

And sometimes, certain schools mic their students to make it seem louder on TV. (Cough, Cheaters, Cough.)

I thought the students, like the team, got a bit complacent in the second half, but overall were fine.

i was going to suggest this is why the crowd might sound week on TV. I'm betting ESPN has mics around the student sections which might pick up a couple near voices, rather than hearing the whole crowd as you do in actuality.

similar idea to the special mics at football games so you can hear QBs in the middle of a loud crowd....but on a slightly less extreme scale.

heck, even at the national anthem, one tenor got picked up by the mic far more than the rest of the choir....and given Dr. Wynkoop was directing, i'm betting it wasn't just because he was singing way louder than everyone else....

[BD80]

Interesting stat--leading rebounder tonight, Quinn Cook with 10.


Duke 79, Pitt 65 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209856559)

Strange but true:

Duke's leading scorer -- Tyus Jones (22)
Duke's leading rebounder -- Quinn Cook (10)
Duke's leading assist man -- Jahlil Okafor (5)

Cook: 10 rebounds, 2 assists.
Okafor: 3 rebounds, 5 assists.

Which one is the top center in the game and which was the starting point guard the last several years?

[Dukehky]

i was going to suggest this is why the crowd might sound week on TV. I'm betting ESPN has mics around the student sections which might pick up a couple near voices, rather than hearing the whole crowd as you do in actuality.

similar idea to the special mics at football games so you can hear QBs in the middle of a loud crowd....but on a slightly less extreme scale.

heck, even at the national anthem, one tenor got picked up by the mic far more than the rest of the choir....and given Dr. Wynkoop was directing, i'm betting it wasn't just because he was singing way louder than everyone else....

Students at most schools are behind the baskets where there are places to put microphones. Notice where the Duke students stand? Nowhere to hide a mic up close to it.

Also, stop complaining about the crowd people. It's a Monday night. They'll be noticeably rowdy when it really counts. If teams have trouble getting up for certain games at certain times, I think we can forgive those who have like .01% to do with the outcome for not being loud for a game in which their team is up double digits the whole time.

It's probably a good thing when the most argumentative topic on a post game thread is on the enthusiasm of the crowd. I'm not stressed on the 2nd half defense. Got up big, played lazy because Pitt isn't good. We didn't let up against Wiscy or Louisville. It's a young team, as long as we can keep it up against teams that can actually come back and win it's okay. Letting a game get down to 10 against a mediocre opponent isn't a great thing, but if those are the Youth problems that this team has, I can handle that.

[uh_no]

Students at most schools are behind the baskets where there are places to put microphones. Notice where the Duke students stand? Nowhere to hide a mic up close to it.


I think ESPN does actually have mics by the grad students sometimes. and as the football anecdote demonstrates, it's possible to grab a very small cross section of sound from a relatively distant location

[WiJoe]

On Friday morning, Iron Duke sent e-mail that standing room tickets in bleachers were available for today's game. They did the same thing for Miami game. So let's hear some "theories" about why that is the case.

[FerryFor50]

because TV cameras and microphones don't tell the whole story.

from someone who was there, the crowd was fine. the students packed the student section and were loud the whole game.

I was also there. Crowd was great, especially at the end with the "Our house" chant... twisting the knife a bit in retaliation for the unnecessary fouling at the end by Pitt.

As for the actual game...

The good:


Great start. Electric offense. Active zone defense. Noisy crowd. It rattled Pitt into a timeout after a 7-0 run.
Cook was great on the glass. It's been good to see guards like Tyus and Quinn, as well as Matt and Rasheed (with his HUGE offensive board tonight), helping rebound. His shooting has been off, but he's making up for it in other areas.
Speaking of rebounds, Duke out-rebounded Pitt despite playing a zone much of the game, which is good - Pitt is not a bad rebounding team (40th in the country).
The defense held Pitt's best scorers (Michael Young and James Robinson) under their averages. They also forced Robinson into 3 turnovers and only allowed him 3 assists. He's averaging a 4.8 to 1.8 assist to turnover ratio this season.
Okafor was really patient and seeing the floor well with his passing.
Rasheed was mostly "good Sheed" tonight, with only a few bad Sheed moments. He was knocking down threes left and right and making some good hustle plays. Maybe his career arc follows that of Quinn Cook...
Tyus Jones was MOTM by far. Big shots, great passes.


The bad:


Winslow's shoulder seemed to really be bothering him this game. A little concerned, but not vigil concerned. Good thing they have some time to get him rest until their next game.
Matt Jones didn't really see the floor much tonight. Not sure why... he wasn't bad when he was in. Hopefully that reverts back to him getting closer to 15 mpg.
Marshall had a chance to play a bit more tonight when Jah got into foul trouble, but found himself with 4 fouls in 7 min, with one on a really bad misread of a pump fake.
The turnovers were low (around 3) with 8 min left, but they ended up with 8 on a sloppy end of the game. Worst was the 10 second call on Sheed. Ugh.
It almost felt like they let the foot off the gas with a 20 pt lead. Then Pitt clawed (literally) their way back in to the game. Still, a double digit win.



Pitt is not very good this year and Duke handled them like they should. Hopefully they can take care of business at MSG.

[CDu]

On Friday morning, Iron Duke sent e-mail that standing room tickets in bleachers were available for today's game. They did the same thing for Miami game. So let's hear some "theories" about why that is the case.

This has been going on for a few years now. It is not new.

[uh_no]

I was also there. Crowd was great, especially at the end with the "Our house" chant... twisting the knife a bit in retaliation for the unnecessary fouling at the end by Pitt. I Thoroughly appreciated the "just go home" chant.



Marshall had a chance to play a bit more tonight when Jah got into foul trouble, but found himself with 4 fouls in 7 min, with one on a really bad misread of a pump fake.

i thought he played well...fouls aside....and that's a big aside....but he was effective on offense, with one really nice jump hook after a move, and he drew a foul on a good move...all in all effective. He was of course just playing leap-frog on the one foul....someone should tell him not to do that, as someone could get hurt. even if the guy hadn't pump faked, i still think it would have ended up a foul....as mason would have clobbered him.....just not a great way to try to make a big play.



It almost felt like they let the foot off the gas with a 20 pt lead. Then Pitt clawed (literally) their way back in to the game. Still, a double digit win.


it was something....because it was overall very poor defensive showing for the second half....give duke credit, though, they never let it within 10. I'm still much happier tonight then i was last week...not the least of all because of the win, but because the first half looked so much better than last week...it's like professor and magneto different. the team looked comfortable on D....it didn't seem there was an easy way to abuse the zone....which is a novel thought given most of the defense we've seen from duke for the past few years.

lets hope we can keep it up

[Leelee902]

This is my third season working at the scorer's table and the crowds all year have been good, definitely including tonight. Invariably there will be more cheering and jumping on the duke bench end where the typically more rowdy line monitors stand. At home you don't get to experience all the time out fun that the students get to have. I help with sound and other technical services and we make Cameron bump during the breaks -- trust me the students get hype. We've asked the coaches directly and they say they absolutely feed off the energy that comes during the time outs. I'm home watching Kansas take on a ranked Oklahoma team and I really don't think there's anyway that place is louder than what I experienced tonight vs a lower-tier ACC team. Oh, and I have yet to see any body paint in that crowd either... there was plenty of that in Cameron

As for the defense... I feel like watching this zone that the team prefers the opposition to take mid-range jumpers instead of threes or layups. I think that will usually work to our advantage, but I was sitting next to Pitt's official book keeper and he was saying that they were shooting way better than normal. Also, remember that Jamie Dixon is known as the zone buster and I wouldn't say that they tore it up. They got a lot of run outs at the end that padded stats, I imagine.

[OZ]

because TV cameras and microphones don't tell the whole story.

from someone who was there, the crowd was fine. the students packed the student section and were loud the whole game.


I was also there and agree 100%. The students and band were having a ball. I guess those who watch via t.v. just need to turn their television up. Not sure what more the crowd could have done. Surprised this was an issue for someone.

[weezie]

Chiming in, crowd was great. Still hoping the Oh Baby makes an appearance. Saw the doll must have missed the cheer. "Welcome to Cameron Jamie" came thundering down from some wag in the upstairs section next to us. We shared a snigger.

[uh_no]

Chiming in, crowd was great. Still hoping the Oh Baby makes an appearance. Saw the doll must have missed the cheer. "Welcome to Cameron Jamie" came thundering down from some wag in the upstairs section next to us. We shared a snigger.

only hope i can be there next year when ol' ricky comes to town :)

[Furniture]

Cook seems to have the knack of getting those long rebounds. But in regards cook I feel that his shot has been off a bit lately. He was one for eight tonight from 3. If he had been his normal self then the winning margin would have been even more. But on the other hand as others have said Sheed(4 from 5), Tysus( 4 from 6) and even Justice (2 from 4) had a good shooting evening.

[Kedsy]

Nice win, but I think the story of this game is Pitt shooting ~60% from the field in the 2nd half.

Well, according to the box score Pitt shot 51.5% in the second half, which admittedly isn't great but it's nowhere close to 60%. I think it can be hard for a young team to keep up defensive intensity when the score is never really in doubt -- the second half started with a 16 point lead, got down to 10, up to 21, down to 10 again and ended at 14. The game was never in doubt, so I'm not really worried about the apparent defensive mediocrity in the second half.

[BigWayne]

I Thoroughly appreciated the "just go home" chant.



That was good. The "our house" chant I could do without.

[tux]

I think it can be hard for a young team to keep up defensive intensity when the score is never really in doubt

I completely agree.

Maybe I'm overestimating yet again, but it seemed that Duke played much more man-to-man in the 2nd half. At one point, ESPN put up a graphic and Pitt was shooting over 60% (I guess they came back to earth after that). It's hard not to view the 2nd half defense in the context of the State and Miami games. To my eye, the transition defense was the biggest culprit. (Step 1: Stop the ball.)

I predicted very little zone before the game and was completely wrong. I did think the zone we played in the first half looked much better than it did against UL. Guys were much more active and aware and the rebounding was greatly improved.

[MChambers]

I completely agree.

Maybe I'm overestimating yet again, but it seemed that Duke played much more man-to-man in the 2nd half. At one point, ESPN put up a graphic and Pitt was shooting over 60% (I guess they came back to earth after that). It's hard not to view the 2nd half defense in the context of the State and Miami games. To my eye, the transition defense was the biggest culprit. (Step 1: Stop the ball.)

I predicted very little zone before the game and was completely wrong. I did think the zone we played in the first half looked much better than it did against UL. Guys were much more active and aware and the rebounding was greatly improved.

At one point, when the game seemed a little bit in danger (I think there were about 6 minutes left and Pitt had cut the lead to around 10, and Duke had thrown the ball away yet again), after a timeout, Duke came out in the man to man. It seemed to throw Pitt off. Might have been the time Pitt ended up inbounding the ball with a second on the shot clock and taking a long two.

[Saratoga2]

Solid win if not overly impressive against a solid (if not overly impressive) Pitt team. As the announcers pointed out during the broadcast, Jamie Dixon is a very good coach and has built a program at Pitt that has been pretty successful. So, I'll take it.

Glad to see Rasheed shooting it so confidently and so well! Now, if he could just work on that shaky handle a bit...that would be (as my old boss Bill used to say) GREEEAAAT.

I think the #1 thing I'm happiest about tonight is Amile's much-improved FT shooting.

I think the #2 thing I'm happiest about tonight is that Marshall didn't squash that poor guy like a bug or break him in half with his knee.

I have noticed in the past that Rasheed dribbles the ball out front and sometimes bounces it fairly high up but otherwise seems to have good control. My reading of his shortcomings are that he doesn't seem to anticipate game situations and act accordingly. For instance with Louisville pressing near the end of game, he caught the ball near the side line and you could have expected them to bring a second defender. Rasheed had to get a timeout or would have turned it over again. Another example is him driving into the basket and a triple team and of course turning it over. They don't seem to give him the benefit of a foul under those circumstances. Other examples is him fouling with 2 seconds on the shot clock and his man having nothing but defenders ahead or bumping beyond 30 feet from the basket. He is a quick, fairly long player with good shooting form and can do some good scoring. I don't know if he just gets so hepped up that he doesn't think. Everyone makes some mistakes in a game, its just that his occur more frequently.

[CDu]

At one point, when the game seemed a little bit in danger (I think there were about 6 minutes left and Pitt had cut the lead to around 10, and Duke had thrown the ball away yet again), after a timeout, Duke came out in the man to man. It seemed to throw Pitt off. Might have been the time Pitt ended up inbounding the ball with a second on the shot clock and taking a long two.

Duke was alternating man and zone throughout. Following made baskets they were playing zone. On misses and turnovers they played man.

[azzefkram]

This was the offense I remember from the beginning of the season. We put up 1.27 with Quinn, Justise and Jah (for him) having off nights. The D was really good in the first half and less so in the second. I am not overly concerned about the letdown in the second half. It was the second game of a quick turnaround. Pitt made some long twos and had a few transition opportunities. Far more positives than negatives in this one on both sides of the court.

I would like to see this team develop a nasty edge to it but I'm not sure we have the personnel for it. Not that it's a knock... I just think we have a bunch of really nice guys on this team.

[UrinalCake]

The biggest story of the past two games is of course the zone defense, but after that I think Amile's aggressiveness and scoring has to be the greatest reason for optimism moving forward. We've known for months now that he has to to give us some offense to keep the double teams off of Oak. Most fans have been asking for him to develop a jump shot, but I am equally happy with him receiving the ball in space and driving to the hoop. He's a good finisher and is giving us exactly what we need. Definitely the most underappreciated player on the team.

[DukeDevilDeb]

because TV cameras and microphones don't tell the whole story.

from someone who was there, the crowd was fine. the students packed the student section and were loud the whole game.

From someone else who was there and has been since 1986... I think the students were great! They did have lots to cheer about, and that helps. But to say that they weren't (especially if you weren't there) isn't right... they did a good job on everything!

Go Devils!

[Brockt10]

How about Marshall's spin move to a hook shot? I think that was my favorite moment from this game.

[gumbomoop]

I have noticed in the past that Rasheed dribbles the ball out front and sometimes bounces it fairly high up but otherwise seems to have good control. My reading of his shortcomings are that he doesn't seem to anticipate game situations and act accordingly. For instance with Louisville pressing near the end of game, he caught the ball near the side line and you could have expected them to bring a second defender. Rasheed had to get a timeout or would have turned it over again. Another example is him driving into the basket and a triple team and of course turning it over. They don't seem to give him the benefit of a foul under those circumstances. Other examples is him fouling with 2 seconds on the shot clock and his man having nothing but defenders ahead or bumping beyond 30 feet from the basket. He is a quick, fairly long player with good shooting form and can do some good scoring. I don't know if he just gets so hepped up that he doesn't think. Everyone makes some mistakes in a game, its just that his occur more frequently.

It's probably near-unanimous around here that we need Tyus to play well, to lead, to score some. For us to get to FF, need him to play as he did against UL and Pitt. Of course, if that happens, I suppose his OAD prospects increase.

And just in case he leaves, we're back to the 2015-16 PG problem, the solution to which is highly unlikely to be Rasheed. Who, as per Saratoga2 here, "doesn't anticipate game situations," too often "just gets so hepped up that he doesn't think."

Rasheed isn't a PG. Next season, as this, he's likely to be a scoring, attacking, 3-bombing, fierce-defending SG. A very valuable player, possibly even a star. Just not a PG. In 2015-16, our PG will surely be (1) Tyus, spelled briefly by Luke Kennard, or (2) Luke, for 30+ mpg, backed up by someone, only if absolutely necessary, Rasheed.

[devil84]

On Friday morning, Iron Duke sent e-mail that standing room tickets in bleachers were available for today's game. They did the same thing for Miami game. So let's hear some "theories" about why that is the case.

It's my understanding that Athletics has some way of determining how large the crowd will be. One obvious way is to note when there are other events taking place on campus that could take away large numbers of students. According to the IFC and Panhellenic pages, for the Miami game, sorority and fraternity recruitment ("rush" for us old folks) was in full swing. Yesterday, according to the IFC page (http://studentaffairs.duke.edu/greek/recruitment-and-intake/interfraternity-council-recruitment), was bid day for fraternities, so I imagine that a large number of students had scheduling conflicts (the dates set months before the sports schedules are announced, and who knew we'd have a game on a Monday?). This would lead Athletics to make tickets available instead of having vacant bleachers.

Being there, and having been attending since 1976 (except for a the decade and a half when I lived out of state), I'd rate the crowd as quite good. They were loud when needed, they weren't extremely loud when we were up by 15+ (but it's rare that the crowd is completely nuts when there are huge leads), and had a few new cheers.

I'm the class of Uncle Terry's Avuncular Letter. Uncle Terry asked us to "[t]hink of something clever but clean, devastating but decent, mean but wholesome, witty and forceful but G-rated for television and try it at the next game." I have to say that the "Just go home" cheer was not well received in my row. It wasn't particularly clever. The other fans and I in my row were waiting for "It's a school night [clap, clap, clap-clap-clap]" or some other creative jab at Pitt's insistence at extending the length of the game. "Just go home" was mean, but not clever, devastating, or witty. How would we react if we heard that in an opposing gym? "Rude," we'd probably say. (We'd be turning cartwheels that it wasn't profane, though.) To each their own, though.

I really liked the D-U-K-E cheer with each side yelling the letter. It was used a lot during the game. Normally it seems kind of boring when used so much, but at the end, it became "9-9-9." OK, that's 3 characters, not four, but it was pretty cool to hear each section yelling 9.

[uh_no]

I really liked the D-U-K-E cheer with each side yelling the letter. It was used a lot during the game. Normally it seems kind of boring when used so much, but at the end, it became "9-9-9." OK, that's 3 characters, not four, but it was pretty cool to hear each section yelling 9.

There are only 3 sections: the two grad student sections and the ugrads. Section 19 was not a participating member of either the D-U-K-E or the 9-9-9 cheer. For D-U-K-E, each section ended up with a different letter for each iteration since there were 4 letters for 3 sections....good thing our students are bright enough to figure out which lettter comes next rather than just having a letter per assigned section.....especially since other schools have so much trouble with the 4 letter word

[MChambers]

Duke was alternating man and zone throughout. Following made baskets they were playing zone. On misses and turnovers they played man.
This was after a stoppage in play, perhaps a timeout. You would have expected zone, but they played man to man.

[uh_no]

This was after a stoppage in play, perhaps a timeout. You would have expected zone, but they played man to man.

they definitely played zone after several misses in the first half, and man after some makes in the second. I would have to rewatch the game, but it's my GUESS that we played more man in the second, and that in some part contributed to the defensive numbers. If someone wants to do a poss-by-poss analysis that would be awesome :P

[FerryFor50]

This was after a stoppage in play, perhaps a timeout. You would have expected zone, but they played man to man.

Maybe the "expected" part is why we saw man to man? Gotta switch it up on occasion to keep them guessing.

[ScreechTDX1847]

I noted on the game thread ... Crowd was very weak. When we brought up the ball and you could see the student section, it seemed like 70% was doing nothing. Could hear individual voices in the cheers. It was very disappointing.

I go to a handful of games every year. The crowd/student section is so much weaker than it was 15 years ago. I mean, part of it in my opinion, is that Iron Duke's get the lion's share of the tickets. If you see the level they have to contribute at to get priority on seats it's pretty insane. The plus side is you ahve an arena full of essentially completely Duke fans, the downside is the demographic with that kind of money sort of leaves you with an older and less energetic crowd. My opinion only.

The students...well what can you say...they (collectively) just aren't as passionate about Duke basketball as the last generation. I have this conversation with by boss all the time.

[Kedsy]

Rasheed isn't a PG. Next season, as this, he's likely to be a scoring, attacking, 3-bombing, fierce-defending SG. A very valuable player, possibly even a star. Just not a PG. In 2015-16, our PG will surely be (1) Tyus, spelled briefly by Luke Kennard, or (2) Luke, for 30+ mpg, backed up by someone, only if absolutely necessary, Rasheed.

Well, Luke Kennard isn't a PG either, right? Not even on his high school team? If Tyus doesn't come back (which I hope he will, but you never know), I don't think anything Duke-point-guard related can be characterized as "surely" going to happen, especially when talking about someone who has played exactly zero college games at this point.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

It's probably near-unanimous around here that we need Tyus to play well, to lead, to score some. For us to get to FF, need him to play as he did against UL and Pitt. Of course, if that happens, I suppose his OAD prospects increase.

And just in case he leaves, we're back to the 2015-16 PG problem, the solution to which is highly unlikely to be Rasheed. Who, as per Saratoga2 here, "doesn't anticipate game situations," too often "just gets so hepped up that he doesn't think."

Rasheed isn't a PG. Next season, as this, he's likely to be a scoring, attacking, 3-bombing, fierce-defending SG. A very valuable player, possibly even a star. Just not a PG. In 2015-16, our PG will surely be (1) Tyus, spelled briefly by Luke Kennard, or (2) Luke, for 30+ mpg, backed up by someone, only if absolutely necessary, Rasheed.


I would be ok with Tyus going pro if it meant he lead us to a National Title, #ThingsIcanLiveWith

[MCFinARL]

I know your comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, as it seems like the immediate reaction on fan boards when a player struggles is that he must be hurt or sick, but in this case I think it might be the case. The broadcasters said he went to the locker room with a bruised rib, and earlier in the game he landed hard on his shoulder. I know in the Miami game he also fell hard and appeared to be holding his wrist or possibly he was holding it against his chest. So I'm sure the guy isn't 100%


A good win. Lots of good moments but the problems on D in the second half remain a concern. Perhaps the team lost their intensity after getting up big and had a hard time getting it back- particularly after a tough road game on Sat. Nice game by Jones who found his shot. Winslow has definitely come back to earth. Seems to be banged up. Some time to work on things before a tough stretch of games.

Coach K had remarks about both of these points after the game. He confirmed Justise is banged up in both ribs and shoulder, they don't think there is anything serious but are glad he will be able to get a couple of days of rest.

Re defense in the second half, he noted that, in the first half, the defense was playing next to the Duke bench and the coaches were yelling out some instructions. Defense was less effective when far from the Duke bench in the second half. IIRC he implied this is a learning curve issue and, as they get the hang of the schemes they are running now, they will need less direct coach guidance.

[Lar77]

Kind of late to this thread, but here are some observations/reactions:

1. Great crowd tonight. Don't know what it was like on TV, but grad and ugrad was packed and enthusiastic.
2. General observation: our crowd is almost always into the game, even when we are down (ever notice that the Smith crowd only cheers when they are up). There are some lulls; better take more 5 hr energy.
3. Yes the crowds were better 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago or whenever you were an undergrad. Get over it.
4. Even the upper deck has gotten better the last couple of years.
5. Speaking of upper deck, why is "crazy towel guy" now in the second half?
6. Specific to the game:
a. Thought Amile was awesome as a leader and on defense. And he seems to have figured out FT shooting.
b. Pitt at one point could not miss. They had pulled their FG pct. from 37% at half to close to 50%, then it drooped a little at the end. I started to have visions of NCSU/Miami.
c. This team goes as Tyus goes.
d. Why, when we were killing clock, did we not figure out a way to get to Jah, who was being covered one-on-one.
e. Marshall is getting more impressive each game, but he has the Plumlee tendency to bounce the ball before going up.
f. The team seems more comfortable in a zone right now. Thank you Jim Boeheim for being with the National team.
Good win. Now on to NYC and St. J. I expect a tough game.

[Kedsy]

The team seems more comfortable in a zone right now. Thank you Jim Boeheim for being with the National team.

According to this article (http://www.fayobserver.com/blogs/sports/acc_basketball/strelow-different-in-name-inconclusive-in-results-duke-s-zone/article_c054979e-a05b-11e4-80eb-6391bc0d4a8f.html), the team seemed more comfortable in the zone when they were defending in front of Duke's bench. It doesn't say how many possessions each defense played, but the article says we allowed 35 of Pitt's 65 points out of the zone.

[gumbomoop]

Well, Luke Kennard isn't a PG either, right? Not even on his high school team? If Tyus doesn't come back (which I hope he will, but you never know), I don't think anything Duke-point-guard related can be characterized as "surely" going to happen, especially when talking about someone who has played exactly zero college games at this point.

So as not to derail this thread, I've responded on Luke Kennard thread.

[dukelifer]

Kind of late to this thread, but here are some observations/reactions:

1. Great crowd tonight. Don't know what it was like on TV, but grad and ugrad was packed and enthusiastic.
2. General observation: our crowd is almost always into the game, even when we are down (ever notice that the Smith crowd only cheers when they are up). There are some lulls; better take more 5 hr energy.
3. Yes the crowds were better 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago or whenever you were an undergrad. Get over it.
4. Even the upper deck has gotten better the last couple of years.
5. Speaking of upper deck, why is "crazy towel guy" now in the second half?
6. Specific to the game:
a. Thought Amile was awesome as a leader and on defense. And he seems to have figured out FT shooting.
b. Pitt at one point could not miss. They had pulled their FG pct. from 37% at half to close to 50%, then it drooped a little at the end. I started to have visions of NCSU/Miami.
c. This team goes as Tyus goes.
d. Why, when we were killing clock, did we not figure out a way to get to Jah, who was being covered one-on-one.
e. Marshall is getting more impressive each game, but he has the Plumlee tendency to bounce the ball before going up.
f. The team seems more comfortable in a zone right now. Thank you Jim Boeheim for being with the National team.
Good win. Now on to NYC and St. J. I expect a tough game.

Marshall needs to watch Mason play now. Mason is a dunking machine.

[MChambers]

Maybe the "expected" part is why we saw man to man? Gotta switch it up on occasion to keep them guessing.
That's the way I saw it.

[jimsumner]

The students are directly behind where I sit and I thought they were pretty loud and well into the game. You absolutely cannot judge this sort of thing from watching television.

I thought Duke's half-court defense was solid in the second half. But Pitt got too many baskets in transition. Duke's transition defense has been shaky of late. Way too many poorly-contested run-outs leading to lay-ups or open jumpers. And Duke gave up too many offensive rebounds in the second half, on several occasions having rebounds in their hands but losing the ball nonetheless. Jefferson (too skinny) and Plumlee (bad hands) are especially prone to this.

[BD80]

Kind of late to this thread, but here are some observations/reactions:

...
3. Yes the crowds were better 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago or whenever you were an undergrad. Get over it.
...

The crowds were the best when I was at school. I still remember a few of the chants:

Air - rock.

Our cave.

If you don't walk upright go to State.

We've got fire.

carolina cheats.

[Kfanarmy]

A couple minutes into the second half they switched to man D. Later they did switch back to zone but I don't know if this team is really comfortable switching back and forth.

Perhaps by design?....Duke got to practice M2M after building a significant lead over Pitt...so the final score doesn't look so dominant, but the coaches got more than this W out of it? Anyway that's what I was thinking while watching the last 15 minutes or so.

[fuse]

The crowds were the best when I was at school. I still remember a few of the chants:

Air - rock.

Our cave.

If you don't walk upright go to State.

We've got fire.

carolina cheats.

Could not spork you. Kudos, well played! :-)

[Saratoga2]

It's probably near-unanimous around here that we need Tyus to play well, to lead, to score some. For us to get to FF, need him to play as he did against UL and Pitt. Of course, if that happens, I suppose his OAD prospects increase.

And just in case he leaves, we're back to the 2015-16 PG problem, the solution to which is highly unlikely to be Rasheed. Who, as per Saratoga2 here, "doesn't anticipate game situations," too often "just gets so hepped up that he doesn't think."

Rasheed isn't a PG. Next season, as this, he's likely to be a scoring, attacking, 3-bombing, fierce-defending SG. A very valuable player, possibly even a star. Just not a PG. In 2015-16, our PG will surely be (1) Tyus, spelled briefly by Luke Kennard, or (2) Luke, for 30+ mpg, backed up by someone, only if absolutely necessary, Rasheed.

Some of the talking heads are thinking that Tyus could be a late first rounder due to the dearth of true PGs in college ball. I hope for his sake, he doesn't take the bait and gets more seasoned before he goes. I also hate to think of the Duke team without him as a primary PG next season. From what I have heard of Kennard, he may well be the second best option. Coach K may just be trying Rasheed at times in case he has to go that way, but I see no signs of Rasheed in that role. Like you say, if he matures and slows down his game, he can be a hell of a SG.

[Saratoga2]

Well, Luke Kennard isn't a PG either, right? Not even on his high school team? If Tyus doesn't come back (which I hope he will, but you never know), I don't think anything Duke-point-guard related can be characterized as "surely" going to happen, especially when talking about someone who has played exactly zero college games at this point.

Is Grayson a possible option?

[Kedsy]

Is Grayson a possible option?

I suppose anything's possible. As I hypothesized in the LK thread, it's probably more possible that if Tyus is gone we'll have to roll with a bunch of wings but no true PG, like we did in 2012 (Rivers, Curry, A Dawkins, Thornton, with Cook as the 5th perimeter option).

[Saratoga2]

Kind of late to this thread, but here are some observations/reactions:

1. Great crowd tonight. Don't know what it was like on TV, but grad and ugrad was packed and enthusiastic.
2. General observation: our crowd is almost always into the game, even when we are down (ever notice that the Smith crowd only cheers when they are up). There are some lulls; better take more 5 hr energy.
3. Yes the crowds were better 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago or whenever you were an undergrad. Get over it.
4. Even the upper deck has gotten better the last couple of years.
5. Speaking of upper deck, why is "crazy towel guy" now in the second half?
6. Specific to the game:
a. Thought Amile was awesome as a leader and on defense. And he seems to have figured out FT shooting.
b. Pitt at one point could not miss. They had pulled their FG pct. from 37% at half to close to 50%, then it drooped a little at the end. I started to have visions of NCSU/Miami.
c. This team goes as Tyus goes.
d. Why, when we were killing clock, did we not figure out a way to get to Jah, who was being covered one-on-one.
e. Marshall is getting more impressive each game, but he has the Plumlee tendency to bounce the ball before going up.
f. The team seems more comfortable in a zone right now. Thank you Jim Boeheim for being with the National team.
Good win. Now on to NYC and St. J. I expect a tough game.

What is the rule that governss whether a coach can stand on the floor and coach from there. It happened continuously last night.

[-jk]

What is the rule that governss whether a coach can stand on the floor and coach from there. It happened continuously last night.

Technically, they're supposed to stay in the coach's box. It is almost never enforced tightly (especially in Cameron with our narrow sidelines).

-jk

[roywhite]

Technically, they're supposed to stay in the coach's box. It is almost never enforced tightly (especially in Cameron with our narrow sidelines).

-jk

If Jamie Dixon had been run over by Okafor or Winslow in a transition situation, there might have been a slick spot left on our court from Dixon's greasy hair.
It's Coach K Court, Jamie; not Brylcreem Court.

[FerryFor50]

What is the rule that governss whether a coach can stand on the floor and coach from there. It happened continuously last night.

Dixon did this a ton last year @Pitt when Duke visited, too. It's irritating.

[FerryFor50]

If Jamie Dixon had been run over by Okafor or Winslow in a transition situation, they would have called a charge on Okafor.


Fixed it for you.

[tbyers11]

I thought Duke's half-court defense was solid in the second half. But Pitt got too many baskets in transition. Duke's transition defense has been shaky of late. Way too many poorly-contested run-outs leading to lay-ups or open jumpers. And Duke gave up too many offensive rebounds in the second half, on several occasions having rebounds in their hands but losing the ball nonetheless. Jefferson (too skinny) and Plumlee (bad hands) are especially prone to this.

100% agree with Jim here. Other than the first 4 possessions (after which K called a TO less than 2 min into the 2nd half) I thought the 2nd half D (both zone and man) was solid when it got set. We generally forced Pitt to take partially contested-to-contested mid range jumpers when we got set. They just hit a lot of them or got O rebounds that we nearly grasped.

The problem was the transition D which has been poor to bad for several games now. Since transition D means man-to-man in our current scheme I think it seemed like man-to-man was much worse than zone in the 2nd half. Live ball turnovers and early clock poor selection shots frequently lead to transition opportunities.

However, we also seem to give up transition opportunities after what appear to be "good" shots. Why is this?
Are we sending too many bodies to crash for offensive boards? - This doesn't really seem to be the case
Are we not hustling back? - This seems partly to be the case. Okafor is slow getting back on some possessions. Our guards tend to get caught "shot-watching" on occassion.
Are we not picking up the ball early enough to delay the fast break? - I think this is the major factor. You not only have to hustle back but hustle back and match-up with some one who might not be your primary assignment. Hopefully continued practice/repetition improves this facet of the D. Making the ball handler turn or change his path near or just after half-court could decrease a lot of the opportunities

[weezie]

Technically, they're supposed to stay in the coach's box. It is almost never enforced tightly (especially in Cameron with our narrow sidelines).

-jk

And we all love the stools that the coaches are forced to sit upon when dealing with the goofy elevated FF courts in massive football arenas.

[sagegrouse]

The students are directly behind where I sit and I thought they were pretty loud and well into the game. You absolutely cannot judge this sort of thing from watching television.

I thought Duke's half-court defense was solid in the second half. But Pitt got too many baskets in transition. Duke's transition defense has been shaky of late. Way too many poorly-contested run-outs leading to lay-ups or open jumpers. And Duke gave up too many offensive rebounds in the second half, on several occasions having rebounds in their hands but losing the ball nonetheless. Jefferson (too skinny) and Plumlee (bad hands) are especially prone to this.

I thought there were a lot more students allowed into games back in the 1990's and now it is mostly just one side of the rollout bleachers ("the media slut" side). Fewer students means less noise and less commotion.

Sage

[-jk]

I thought there were a lot more students allowed into games back in the 1990's and now it is mostly just one side of the rollout bleachers ("the media slut" side). Fewer students means less noise and less commotion.

Sage

Alas, it's not about "allowed". The u-grads haven't filled the bleachers since early Nan, and the bleachers have slowly given way to grads and others for lack of u-grad demand.

-jk

[uh_no]

Technically, they're supposed to stay in the coach's box. It is almost never enforced tightly (especially in Cameron with our narrow sidelines).

-jk

i believe (though am uncertain) that the coaches box extends a couple feet onto the court. This is why the coaches box line extends outward onto the floor as seen http://www.prm.nau.edu/prm423/images/Basketball_court_NCAA.JPG

I'm wrong



Section 9. Coaching Box
Art. 1. The coaching boxes shall extend from the sideline to the back of the team
benches and shall be bounded by the end line and no farther than the 28-foot line
as noted in the diagram.
Art. 2. A 3-foot line shall be extended in both directions from the sideline, so that
the coaching-box restriction is evident.




Section 3. Bench Area
Art. 1. The boundaries of the bench area shall be formed from the outer edge
of the sideline beginning at the 28-foot line (coaching box line) and extending
beyond the end line by an imaginary line. The depth of the bench area extends
from the outer edge of the sideline to the back of the team bench.
Art. 2. During any timeout or before any extra period, bench personnel and
players shall locate themselves inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the
boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line and an imaginary
line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an
imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.


So it's not even allowed during timeouts....which would be impossible in most stadia.

[-jk]

Uh, no.

From the 2013-14 and 2014-15 men's bb rule book (get your copy here (http://www.ncaapublications.com/)):


Rule 1. Section 9. Coaching Box

Art. 1. The coaching boxes shall extend from the sideline to the back of the team benches and shall be bounded by the end line and no farther than the 28-foot line
as noted in the diagram.

Art. 2. A 3-foot line shall be extended in both directions from the sideline, so that the coaching-box restriction is evident.

It's the sideline...

-jk

[sagegrouse]

And we all love the stools that the coaches are forced to sit upon when dealing with the goofy elevated FF courts in massive football arenas.

Kevin Ware says, "Hi!"

I had thought the NCAA was considering normal-sized arenas for the future because of crowd experience. But now I look and see it ain't happening. For
2015 through 2021 the game will be in


2015 Indy
2016 Houston
2017 Phoenix
2018 San Antonio
2019 Minneapolis
2020 Atlanta
2021 Indy again

(Contractually, Indy is guaranteed the FF every so often as part of the deal to bring the NCAA HQ there.

[DukieInKansas]

were you guys there? i don't know where all the hate is coming from, but in almost every game i've been to this year, the students have been great. including this one. including much of the game vs miami.

I only watched the game but I thought the crowd was in it. There do appear to be stretches where they seem like they don't quite know what to do - much like the team, at times.

[DukieInKansas]

Cook: 10 rebounds, 2 assists.
Okafor: 3 rebounds, 5 assists.

Which one is the top center in the game and which was the starting point guard the last several years?

Are you saying that Wojo really should have been coaching the Bigs? ;)

[NashvilleDevil]

Nice win, but I think the story of this game is Pitt shooting ~60% from the field in the 2nd half. Transition defense continues to be a big problem, as teams are just running downhill against us...

Tyus found his shot again. Winslow continues to struggle a bit, but hit a couple nice threes.

Second game in a row that I cannot tell if Duke won from your post.

[DU82]

Kind of late to this thread, but here are some observations/reactions:

5. Speaking of upper deck, why is "crazy towel guy" now in the second half?



Why is that cheer done any time?

(Speaking of which, DUMB - If you have to, go ahead, but don't start this cheer at the women's games DURING PLAY!)