Does anyone else think that...

[David Bunkley]

...we come out with some fire Saturday and play with some heart against Louisville? A big win over a top 10 opponenet is just the thing to right the ship. I bet some soul searching is going on as we speak and it would not surprise me to see us come out with the proverbial fire in our eyes.

#GODUKE

[MCFinARL]

...we come out with some fire Saturday and play with some heart against Louisville? A big win over a top 10 opponenet is just the thing to right the ship. I bet some soul searching is going on as we speak and it would surprise me to see us come out with the proverbial fire in our eyes.

#GODUKE

I agree that we will likely come out with some fire and heart on Saturday. But I don't necessarily think that will result in a big win. I don't think lack of heart has really been the problem, especially at the beginning of games--perhaps at the end of these last two games where frustration has taken over a bit.

[David Bunkley]

I agree that we will likely come out with some fire and heart on Saturday. But I don't necessarily think that will result in a big win. I don't think lack of heart has really been the problem, especially at the beginning of games--perhaps at the end of these last two games where frustration has taken over a bit.

I agree. We may not win; I could see a close loss as being an improvement after the last 2 games. I more so meant that a big win would help erase some doubt and boost our confidence.

[jv001]

I agree. We may not win; I could see a close loss as being an improvement after the last 2 games. I more so meant that a big win would help erase some doubt and boost our confidence.

I'm not being snarky when I say this, but I think Coach K and players are not going to see a close loss as an improvement over the last two games. I think everyone involved with Duke basketball will be disappointed with a loss of any kind. For one reason, we have a more talented team than Louisville and we have a HOF coach. Like I said, I'm not being snarky and you have every right to be happy with a close loss. GoDuke!

[Jeffrey]

Even if we only lose by 1 point, I don't think 3 consecutive losses will help confidence.

[David Bunkley]

I'm not being snarky when I say this, but I think Coach K and players are not going to see a close loss as an improvement over the last two games. I think everyone involved with Duke basketball will be disappointed with a loss of any kind. For one reason, we have a more talented team than Louisville and we have a HOF coach. Like I said, I'm not being snarky and you have every right to be happy with a close loss. GoDuke!

Also not being snarky, but I said, "I could see," not "they would see..."

I am not happy about any loss, but I do think that a close loss against a top 10 opponent on their home court is an improvement over a double digit loss to an unranked opponent at CIS. No loss is acceptable, but there are levels of unacceptability...

#GODUKE

[dahntaysdawg]

I definitely think they will come out with an extra shot of intenisty, the problem is I don't think lack of intensity is to blame for the two losses. What I'm worried will happen is that some cute wrinkle (platoon system last year) will be added that will work for a game or two until old habits come back.

[David Bunkley]

Even if we only lose by 1 point, I don't think 3 consecutive losses will help confidence.

1. A big win over L'ville would boost our team's confidence.
2. A close loss against L'ville on the road > getting blown out by Miami at home from a fan perspective.

I apologize if my thoughts aren't coming across clearly.

#GODUKE

[gumbomoop]

I expect that Tyus will this Sat play like he did at Wisconsin. If he does, I expect a Yum-burner. If he doesn't, I expect us to lose.

Until convinced otherwise, I think that as Tyus goes, so goes Duke.

In our games, Quinn will score. Jahlil will get his double-doubles. Amile will rebound and score sneaky. Justise will wow, if inconsistently. Rasheed and Matt will spark, and Marshall will contribute a couple of good plays, if afforded some minutes.

But unless Tyus comes to play, Duke will be way out of sorts. It's a lot to ask of a freshman, who seems a sweet guy. His calm demeanor must be accompanied by relentlessness, not passivity.

ETA: and relentlessness includes getting to the FT-line, regularly.

[Jeffrey]

1. A big win over L'ville would boost our team's confidence.
2. A close loss against L'ville on the road > getting blown out by Miami at home from a fan perspective.

I apologize if my thoughts aren't coming across clearly.

#GODUKE

Hi David,

I think we really need this win! Duke's expectations are so high (given our successes) that I think most fans are not going to be pleased by 3 consecutive losses regardless of the score. But, I was much more focused on our team's confidence with my first post on this thread.

I fully understand and agree that the last two losses were very hard to watch, and a close loss to Louisville would be more tolerable.

[David Bunkley]

I expect that Tyus will this Sat play like he did at Wisconsin. If he does, I expect a Yum-burner. If he doesn't, I expect us to lose.

Until convinced otherwise, I think that as Tyus goes, so goes Duke.

In our games, Quinn will score. Jahlil will get his double-doubles. Amile will rebound and score sneaky. Justise will wow, if inconsistently. Rasheed and Matt will spark, and Marshall will contribute a couple of good plays, if afforded some minutes.

But unless Tyus comes to play, Duke will be way out of sorts. It's a lot to ask of a freshman, who seems a sweet guy. His calm demeanor must be accompanied by relentlessness, not passivity.

We need Tyus to be consistently brilliant in the way that Bobby, J-Will, and Scheyer were (if all in their own way) in order to win another chanpionship? I couldn't agree more. Tyus Jones is by far our most important player.

#GODUKE

[David Bunkley]

Hi David,

I think we really need this win! Duke's expectations are so high (given our successes) that I think most fans are not going to be pleased by 3 consecutive losses regardless of the score. But, I was much more focused on our team's confidence with my first post on this thread.

I fully understand and agree that the last two losses were very hard to watch, and a close loss to Louisville would be more tolerable sadness.

You're right. We NEED this win in the worst kind of way.

#GODUKE

[Rich]

We need Tyus to be consistently brilliant in the way that Bobby, J-Will, and Scheyer were (if all in their own way) in order to win another chanpionship? I couldn't agree more. Tyus Jones is by far our most important player.

#GODUKE

We all need to keep in mind that none of those players were "consistently brilliant" as freshmen. I think our expectations of these young kids have become whacked in the one-and-done era.

[Bob Green]

Until convinced otherwise, I think that as Tyus goes, so goes Duke.



Spot on!

As the point guard, Tyus Jones must direct the team, control the pace and be a coach on the court. He makes the decision of when to push the pace or slow things down. That is a lot to ask of a freshman so some inconsistency is bound to occur. Quinn Cook needs to be the team's senior leader, but T. Jones is the primary guy with the ball in his hands.

[David Bunkley]

We all need to keep in mind that none of those players were "consistently brilliant" as freshmen. I think our expectations of these young kids have become whacked in the one-and-done era.

The fact that he's a freshman doesn't change what we need out of him in order to be successful - though, it may limit what we actually get from him.

On the other hand, you have to acknowledge that the one and done era, USA Basketball, and AAU have fundamentally changed the expectations and often reality of upper-tier freshman. Marcus Smart was an assasin as a frosh, so was Kyrie (not counting his injury).

There is no rule that states that a Freshman PG can't consistely take care of the ball, initiate the offense, and get the ball to the correct person, all while playing a little defense. Even Paulus was able to lead an elite team as a freshman.

I'm not asking for 20 and 10, but 11 and 6 with 2 TOs seems reasonable.

#GODUKE

[Kedsy]

Spot on!

As the point guard, Tyus Jones must direct the team, control the pace and be a coach on the court. He makes the decision of when to push the pace or slow things down. That is a lot to ask of a freshman so some inconsistency is bound to occur. Quinn Cook needs to be the team's senior leader, but T. Jones is the primary guy with the ball in his hands.

It's more than that. For whatever reason, the team seems to have taken on Tyus's personality. When he's in a funk, the team's in a funk. When he displays quiet confidence, the team quietly, confidently takes care of business.

[Clay Feet POF]

To me, its all about penetration, if we stop them and Tyus leads we win, if not ........not good

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

I don't want to call this a must win because lets face it, its just January. But this is about as close as we have been to a must win game during the regular season that I can remember. The impact a 3 game losing streak could have on the fan base, national perception, and the team is pretty big. Especially when you take into account games against Notre Dame and UVA looming. For this team and this season this is a must win right now. Not saying that we can't have a successful season with a loss but it sure will be a lot easier with a win. A win keeps us in the conversation for a one seed, and still a chance at the regular season ACC title. A loss pretty much puts a wrap on that.

[weezie]

...I think our expectations of these young kids have become whacked in the one-and-done era.

They all need time to develop, Rich is dead right. It's hard to grow under the bright tv lights and heavy expectations.
Our team needs nurturing.

But, we'll be ready for lville.

[DUKIECB]

I think the remainder of this month will make or break this team. What's funny is I can see it going either way. We could respond to what has happened in a positive way, get a win on Saturday, increase our confidence and begin to become the elite team we have the potential to be. Or we could lose a hard fought game Saturday, get down in the dumps about losing three games in a row and proceed to lose tough games on the road at UVA and ND and all of the sudden the wheels have fallen off.

Obviously time will tell and unfortunately all of the teams hopes and dreams rest with the attitude, resolve and heart of three freshmen. It's not about talent. As coach K put it, it's about confidence right now. At some point they have to band together and believe in themselves.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to see a few shots fall early Saturday. It's crazy how that can impact a team so easily.

[English]

What I'm worried will happen is that some cute wrinkle (platoon system last year) will be added that will work for a game or two until old habits come back.

If some cute wrinkle shows up on Saturday that works and gets us the W against UofL at the Yum!, no matter how short-lived, I will consider that a masterful job of coaching and team execution and move along with a smile on my face. Even better if that wrinkle lasts an additional game or two in the murderer's row of opponents we have on the horizon.

[W&LHoo]

As a wahoo, I'd be thrilled to see you guys win one there.

First, it'd make these boards more interesting - you guys manage some decent basketball analysis when you're not busy hand wringing.

Second, Having both you and Louisville at 2 losses only helps us. :cool:

[BigWayne]

...we come out with some fire Saturday and play with some heart against Louisville? A big win over a top 10 opponenet is just the thing to right the ship. I bet some soul searching is going on as we speak and it would not surprise me to see us come out with the proverbial fire in our eyes.

#GODUKE

Well I thought the loss to State would make them come out with fire against Miami. I hope they come out with fire every game.

[jv001]

Well I thought the loss to State would make them come out with fire against Miami. I hope they come out with fire every game.

I don't think lack of fire in their eyes had anything to do with our losses against State and Miami. It was bad defense, turnovers and poor shooting. I look for the team to rebound against Louisville. GoDuke!

[CDu]

I don't think lack of fire in their eyes had anything to do with our losses against State and Miami. It was bad defense, turnovers and poor shooting. I look for the team to rebound against Louisville. GoDuke!

I agree. Fire and passion are great and all, but ultimately this seems like an execution and/or strategy problem rather than an effort problem. I look at Sulaimon as the best example. That dude is ALWAYS fired up. Nobody can question his fire and passion. But for the past few years he's been pretty mediocre defensively. Same for Cook. Jefferson is also extremely fiery. Matt Jones is as fiery as anyone but Sulaimon. These guys are trying hard. I think we all know about Plumlee's enthusiasm and effort. The freshmen are giving it their all, too. They just aren't executing and are losing assignments.

If I were to say anything is missing on the players side (aside from physical limitations), it's focus and not fire. Blown defensive assignments are most often a sign of poor preparation/instruction (a coaching issue) or poor focus/awareness (a player issue). Neither has anything to do with the energy or effort.

I like to use freshman year Lance Thomas as my example. As a frosh, Lance Thomas was not short on fire/passion/effort/energy. But he was completely out of control. He was sort of like a cat after getting into some catnip: crazed all over the place without any clear purpose. So he wasn't a very effective defender, even though he clearly had the passion for it. It really wasn't until his senior year that the game started to slow down for Thomas, and he ultimately became that defensive stopper that he wanted so badly to be. But for him (and for most Duke players), it was never an issue of lacking motivation.

[grad_devil]

I agree. Fire and passion are great and all, but ultimately this seems like an execution and/or strategy problem rather than an effort problem. I look at Sulaimon as the best example. That dude is ALWAYS fired up. Nobody can question his fire and passion. But for the past few years he's been pretty mediocre defensively. Same for Cook. Jefferson is also extremely fiery. Matt Jones is as fiery as anyone but Sulaimon. These guys are trying hard. I think we all know about Plumlee's enthusiasm and effort. The freshmen are giving it their all, too. They just aren't executing and are losing assignments.

If I were to say anything is missing on the players side (aside from physical limitations), it's focus and not fire. Blown defensive assignments are most often a sign of poor preparation/instruction (a coaching issue) or poor focus/awareness (a player issue). Neither has anything to do with the energy or effort.

I like to use freshman year Lance Thomas as my example. As a frosh, Lance Thomas was not short on fire/passion/effort/energy. But he was completely out of control. He was sort of like a cat after getting into some catnip: crazed all over the place without any clear purpose. So he wasn't a very effective defender, even though he clearly had the passion for it. It really wasn't until his senior year that the game started to slow down for Thomas, and he ultimately became that defensive stopper that he wanted so badly to be. But for him (and for most Duke players), it was never an issue of lacking motivation.

I can't give you sporkz yet, but I think this analysis is spot on.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

As a wahoo, I'd be thrilled to see you guys win one there.

First, it'd make these boards more interesting - you guys manage some decent basketball analysis when you're not busy hand wringing.

Second, Having both you and Louisville at 2 losses only helps us. :cool:

You sure you want both Louisville and Duke playing desperate basketball over the next few weeks? Be careful what you wish for...

:)

ACC Tourney is going to be a bloodbath this year.

[wilko]

I'm wondering if these guys are at ALL interested in BBall...
Especially now that their FB careers are wrapped up

Jamison Crowder
Issac Blakeney
Takoby Cofield

Some Speed and midsized bangers could be useful......

I know I know.... Im gonna get railed for this one...

[Troublemaker]

Fire and passion are great and all, but ultimately this seems like an execution and/or strategy problem rather than an effort problem.

Agreed. Coach K said himself that the players' effort has been there, just not the confidence.

I do agree with Mr. Bunkley that Duke will play well on Saturday. In fact, and this will sound very homer-ish to some, but I think Duke will win. But it won't be because of an increase in heart/effort.

[Kedsy]

I'm wondering if these guys are at ALL interested in BBall...
Especially now that their FB careers are wrapped up

Jamison Crowder
Issac Blakeney
Takoby Cofield

Some Speed and midsized bangers could be useful......

I know I know.... Im gonna get railed for this one...

I'm not railing, but whose minutes do you think any of those guys would/should take?

[MartyClark]

I don't have a clue. I'm going to the game and it will be interesting to see this team in person. I was hoping this would be win # 1,000, but I'm now hoping for win #998

Changing the subject to defense, I don't understand the problem. Defense is largely effort, ability and scheme. I don't think, from a player's standpoint, that K's defense doesn't require that much thought or experience. Sure, we have 3 freshman starting but these kids have played thousand of games at the high school and AAU level and, if they are sufficiently motivated and talented, ought to be able to play this defense. It's really not advanced trigonometry. Maybe they just don't have the ability to play this defense.

[MartyClark]

I don't have a clue. I'm going to the game and it will be interesting to see this team in person. I was hoping this would be win # 1,000, but I'm now hoping for win #998

Changing the subject to defense, I don't understand the problem. Defense is largely effort, ability and scheme. I don't think, from a player's standpoint, that K's defense doesn't require that much thought or experience. Sure, we have 3 freshman starting but these kids have played thousand of games at the high school and AAU level and, if they are sufficiently motivated and talented, ought to be able to play this defense. It's really not advanced trigonometry. Maybe they just don't have the ability to play this defense.

Unintentional double negative, sorry. I meant to say that I don't think K's defense requires that much thought or experience.

[jv001]

Unintentional double negative, sorry. I meant to say that I don't think K's defense requires that much thought or experience.

If it's not that tough to learn, why doesn't the staff go ahead and teach the team zone defense and pack line defense. They would have enough time. I think the main thing about playing man to man on the perimeter is being able to move your feet. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Unintentional double negative, sorry. I meant to say that I don't think K's defense requires that much thought or experience.


If it's not that tough to learn, why doesn't the staff go ahead and teach the team zone defense and pack line defense. They would have enough time. I think the main thing about playing man to man on the perimeter is being able to move your feet. GoDuke!

Yeah, I think Marty is underselling the complexity. On-ball defense is all about effort, that is true. But rotating, identifying screens, helping, and knowing when to switch and when not to is much more nuanced. It takes time to learn what Coach K wants, and it also takes time to develop the chemistry and trust needed to make it work wiyh all five on the floor.

That is part of the reason Coach K likes to keep the rotation faitly short. The fewer the rotation players, the easier it is to get those rotation players comfortable with each other defensively. That is also a big part of why introducing a bunch of freshmen (and to a lesser degree transfers) makes it more challenging to get things cohesive. You are introducing guys who have to learn the system AND learn to play with the vets, ANDyou are asking veteran guys to learn how to play with the new guys.

It helps when those vets are good defenders with good court awareness (like when Plumlee and especially Kelly were the senior leaders). But when you have a lot of new faces and you don't have strong veteran presence helping guide them on the floor (like last year, when only Thornton was a truly mindful defender of the vets), it can go quite wrong.

[David Bunkley]

Jah standing straight up at the top of the key with his hands by his side as the ballhandler drives into the lane after a p & r is about effort. Matt reaching instead of moving his feet and getting quick fouls is about effort. Not getting back on defense after a missed shot is about effort.

Obviously there is a learning curve, but we are not displaying the defensive effort that we did earlier in the year. I doubt they learned how to play defense for the first 1/4 of the season and then all of a sudden unlearned it for the last 4 games.

It'll get better.

#GODUKE

[jv001]

Jah standing straight up at the top of the key with his hands by his side as the ballhandler drives into the lane after a p & r is about effort. Matt reaching instead of moving his feet and getting quick fouls is about effort. Not getting back on defense after a missed shot is about effort.

Obviously there is a learning curve, but we are not displaying the defensive effort that we did earlier in the year. I doubt they learned how to play defense for the first 1/4 of the season and then all of a sudden unlearned it for the last 4 games.

It'll get better.

#GODUKE

Very good points and I'll add, dropping your head after a bad call or a missed shot that causes you not to get back on defense is about effort. Standing and watching a shot go up and not getting to the rebound is about effort(bigs). I'm sure the coaching staff has addressed all of this after Tuesday. GoDuke!

[BlueDevilBrowns]

We can come out with all the heart and intensity in the world, but if we can't defend Louisville's pick & roll offense as well as knocking down shots when we're on offense, it's going to be another loss.

I know K likes to wax poetic and get all "new-age" when explaining Duke's deficiencies, but it's a lack of effective simple X's & O's and accurate shooting that plagues this team at the moment.

[flyingdutchdevil]

We can come out with all the heart and intensity in the world, but if we can't defend Louisville's pick & roll offense as well as knocking down shots when we're on offense, it's going to be another loss.

I know K likes to wax poetic and get all "new-age" when explaining Duke's deficiencies, but it's a lack of effective simple X's & O's and accurate shooting that plagues this team at the moment.

Important to note that Louisville is an exceptional defensive team (the best defensive team we've faced all year. UCONN, at #21 according to Kenpom, is the next best).

Louisville's O, on the other hand, isn't so pretty. #52 in the country. Good, but manageable. If they score freely against us, then our defense has lost all hope.

[Clay Feet POF]

We can come out with all the heart and intensity in the world, but if we can't defend Louisville's pick & roll offense as well as knocking down shots when we're on offense, it's going to be another loss.

I know K likes to wax poetic and get all "new-age" when explaining Duke's deficiencies, but it's a lack of effective simple X's & O's and accurate shooting that plagues this team at the moment.



Absolutely, the effort is there, and once the Execution of the defective schemes are fixed, confidence will come and we will be Roll ‘in Again.

[Clay Feet POF]

Absolutely, the effort is there, and once the Execution of the defensive schemes are fixed, confidence will come and we will be Roll ‘in Again. Should be Defensive Schemes Sorry

[gofurman]

Important to note that Louisville is an exceptional defensive team (the best defensive team we've faced all year. UCONN, at #21 according to Kenpom, is the next best).

Louisville's O, on the other hand, isn't so pretty. #52 in the country. Good, but manageable. If they score freely against us, then our defense has lost all hope.


This is a good post Louisville is the anti-Duke. They are much more D and less O. If they blow by us and score 80 we are bad.

They win w an average score of 73-56. Duke averages a win score of 83-64. About ten points more scored and allowed by us. Cards put 85 on wake, 58 on Clemson, 71 on UNC, and 78 on VTech. IE, a good D should not let them have 80. They shoot 66% from the FT line as a team

[arnie]

Absolutely, the effort is there, and once the Execution of the defective schemes are fixed, confidence will come and we will be Roll ‘in Again.

Shouldn't this post be moved to the unbridled optimism thread.

[David Bunkley]

Exactly like I predicted, we played zone the entire game, gave them open looks, and won by double digits. (j/k)

HAHAHAHAHAHA

#GODUKE