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dmac2681
01-14-2015, 11:13 PM
I wasn't there but it appears the Crazies were not really into the game last night. Thoughts?

dukelifer
01-14-2015, 11:17 PM
I wasn't there but it appears the Crazies were not really into the game last night. Thoughts?

They tried. Team was not delivering - a bad night for everyone.

subzero02
01-15-2015, 12:45 AM
They tried. Team was not delivering - a bad night for everyone.

Be crazy, or not... There is no try.

wcg
01-15-2015, 06:42 AM
I was there. The student section was 1/4 full of non-students over the age of 30. Maybe that's the reason it was so quiet.

BobBender
01-15-2015, 07:25 AM
Be crazy, or not... There is no try.

It's a variation of the old Mike Tyson line: "everyone is a 'Crazy'
until they get punched in the mouth"

UrinalCake
01-15-2015, 07:53 AM
I thought they had pretty good energy for the first 30 minutes of game time. When the deficit hit 15 they reached their loudest. But after repeatedly getting up and getting loud, only to see the team commit a dumb turnover and give up a breakaway dunk or wide open three, they got pretty deflated.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
01-15-2015, 08:11 AM
Yea I think we are being a little too hard on the Crazies on this one. You can only cheer so much while you get your heart ripped out repeatedly. I know sitting on my lazyboy at home that I wasn't even in the mood to talk to the people around me. I had a very attractive lady friend visiting and I wasn't in the mood to talk much less cheer for that horrid performance. I mean eventually she helped me get over it but at the time no chance I was cheering, smiling, or talking to anyone. Speaking of which I need to invite her over on Saturday just in case I need some cheering up after. Or perhaps her presence was the problem and I should shun her!!! Now I am just confused, I need to think on this matter. :D

MCFinARL
01-15-2015, 09:04 AM
Yea I think we are being a little too hard on the Crazies on this one. You can only cheer so much while you get your heart ripped out repeatedly. I know sitting on my lazyboy at home that I wasn't even in the mood to talk to the people around me. I had a very attractive lady friend visiting and I wasn't in the mood to talk much less cheer for that horrid performance. I mean eventually she helped me get over it but at the time no chance I was cheering, smiling, or talking to anyone. Speaking of which I need to invite her over on Saturday just in case I need some cheering up after. Or perhaps her presence was the problem and I should shun her!!! Now I am just confused, I need to think on this matter. :D

Unless someone comes up with a magic bullet to right the ship very quickly, your best option for Saturday might be to invite her over and forget about watching the game, alas. There is at least a pretty good chance it will go something like these last two, I fear.

CDu
01-15-2015, 09:21 AM
I was there. The student section was 1/4 full of non-students over the age of 30. Maybe that's the reason it was so quiet.

Again, I must point out that student apathy is the only reason 1/4 of the sudent section is now paying adults. I am quite sure that the adults willing to pay to stand in the bleachers is NOT the reason for the poor crowd showing - especially since that section has long been non-student (the other night was not different than the norm over the past few years.

I think the tenor of the game is to blame. It is hard to be crazy when the other team is putting the biscuit in the basket evry trip down.

UrinalCake
01-15-2015, 09:35 AM
While we're on the subject, I will say that the general environment has become too much of a production for me. I was an undergrad in the late 90's and now am back as a grad student. Everything is choreographed - the same songs played over the loudspeakers at the same times, the same movements from the crowd, even the student-generated cheers get old. What happened to all of the creativity we used to be known for? There is zero spontaneity. And the fan cam needs to go. It's the result of our constant desire to be seen, and it results in everyone staring up at the screen looking for themselves rather than being present in the moment. I would love it if the scoreboard was only used as an actual scoreboard and didn't play videos at all, but I assume I'm in the minority on that issue.

And back in the 90's the undergrads occupied the entire "TV" side as well as more than half of the "non-TV side." What the heck happened that the non-TV side is now entirely ticket holders (plus opponents fans and guests of the players)? Are students really not that interested in attending?

</ rant from old fart>

superdave
01-15-2015, 09:41 AM
I was there. The student section was 1/4 full of non-students over the age of 30. Maybe that's the reason it was so quiet.

I saw that bleacher seats were available to purchase from the basketball office for the Miami game.

MCFinARL
01-15-2015, 09:47 AM
While we're on the subject, I will say that the general environment has become too much of a production for me. I was an undergrad in the late 90's and now am back as a grad student. Everything is choreographed - the same songs played over the loudspeakers at the same times, the same movements from the crowd, even the student-generated cheers get old. What happened to all of the creativity we used to be known for? There is zero spontaneity. And the fan cam needs to go. It's the result of our constant desire to be seen, and it results in everyone staring up at the screen looking for themselves rather than being present in the moment.

And back in the 90's the undergrads occupied the entire "TV" side as well as more than half of the "non-TV side." What the heck happened that the non-TV side is now entirely ticket holders (plus opponents fans and guests of the players)? Are students really not that interested in attending?

</ rant from old fart>

There was a recent article in the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/students-try-to-find-their-place-for-college-football-national-championship-game/2015/01/10/f47c89a0-9903-11e4-8005-1924ede3e54a_story.html) about student tickets for the College Football Championship that noted that, for some schools--specifically focusing on Oregon--keeping students in the stands for all of football games, or sometimes even getting them there in the first place, has become more difficult--they tend to tailgate and then go home, or to leave at half-time if the game is not close. Of course at Duke people are very familiar with the tradition of tailgating without attending the game, but Duke wasn't vying for a national championship at the time. The article seemed to suggest that live sports attendance was not as significant a part of college student culture as it used to be--for many reasons including the wide availability of game coverage on HDTV. Of course, for basketball students do not have to sit out in bad weather as they often do for football--though they may have to wait in bad weather to get in. But it may be that the lure of watching on tv from the comfort of a dorm room or apartment, or the conviviality of a bar, now has more appeal than attending live.

CDu
01-15-2015, 10:16 AM
I saw that bleacher seats were available to purchase from the basketball office for the Miami game.

This has been the case for many of the non-UNC ACC games for a few years now. Nothing new.

CDu
01-15-2015, 10:27 AM
There was a recent article in the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/students-try-to-find-their-place-for-college-football-national-championship-game/2015/01/10/f47c89a0-9903-11e4-8005-1924ede3e54a_story.html) about student tickets for the College Football Championship that noted that, for some schools--specifically focusing on Oregon--keeping students in the stands for all of football games, or sometimes even getting them there in the first place, has become more difficult--they tend to tailgate and then go home, or to leave at half-time if the game is not close. Of course at Duke people are very familiar with the tradition of tailgating without attending the game, but Duke wasn't vying for a national championship at the time. The article seemed to suggest that live sports attendance was not as significant a part of college student culture as it used to be--for many reasons including the wide availability of game coverage on HDTV. Of course, for basketball students do not have to sit out in bad weather as they often do for football--though they may have to wait in bad weather to get in. But it may be that the lure of watching on tv from the comfort of a dorm room or apartment, or the conviviality of a bar, now has more appeal than attending live.

This is absolutely a big part of the issue for students. 20+ years not everybody had easy access to high-quality TVs. On top of that, not every game was even televised. So watching in person was it. Now that we have 7-8 versions of ESPN and other sports networks, pretty much every game can be watched at home (and much more comfortably). As such, student attendance has become a problem. It is not a new issue: student attendance was a big problem back when I was a student at the turn of the century. And it apparently has only gotten worse, as for the past few years the student section has been almost cut in half (they used to have both sides of the court, not just the side opposite the benches), and even the "TV" side has been sold to the public for non-marquee games for a few years now.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-15-2015, 10:45 AM
While we're on the subject, I will say that the general environment has become too much of a production for me. I was an undergrad in the late 90's and now am back as a grad student. Everything is choreographed - the same songs played over the loudspeakers at the same times, the same movements from the crowd, even the student-generated cheers get old. What happened to all of the creativity we used to be known for? There is zero spontaneity. And the fan cam needs to go. It's the result of our constant desire to be seen, and it results in everyone staring up at the screen looking for themselves rather than being present in the moment. I would love it if the scoreboard was only used as an actual scoreboard and didn't play videos at all, but I assume I'm in the minority on that issue.

And back in the 90's the undergrads occupied the entire "TV" side as well as more than half of the "non-TV side." What the heck happened that the non-TV side is now entirely ticket holders (plus opponents fans and guests of the players)? Are students really not that interested in attending?

</ rant from old fart>
I agree regarding the scripted nature of the experience. Only the game seems to be spontaneous, at least to the extent it can be when play occurs in intervals bracketed by TV time outs. To add to your description, there is a continuing, changing flow of people seated upstairs who have never been to Cameron. It feels like a stop on some sort of tour as people talk about checking one more thing off their bucket lists.

superdave
01-15-2015, 10:49 AM
This has been the case for many of the non-UNC ACC games for a few years now. Nothing new.

Yes, but they were advertising the tickets the day before the game on twitter. Is that common? I bought tickets for one of the games over Christmas and they sold out well in advance.

WiJoe
01-15-2015, 12:27 PM
I thought they had pretty good energy for the first 30 minutes of game time. When the deficit hit 15 they reached their loudest. But after repeatedly getting up and getting loud, only to see the team commit a dumb turnover and give up a breakaway dunk or wide open three, they got pretty deflated.


"pretty good energy"?

Since when does that cut it in Cameron?

DrChainsaw
01-15-2015, 12:48 PM
I was there. The student section was 1/4 full of non-students over the age of 30. Maybe that's the reason it was so quiet.

Whoa there, whippersnapper. The under-30 Crazies are a bunch of wussies compared to us 80's vintage.

Give me your seat & I'll make some noise......

CDu
01-15-2015, 01:09 PM
Yes, but they were advertising the tickets the day before the game on twitter. Is that common? I bought tickets for one of the games over Christmas and they sold out well in advance.

I don't know about Twitter, but I've received numerous emails over the past few years about ticket availability in the student section.

I don't think there has been any change in the amount of student section tickets being allocated to the general public this year. I suspect that if there was an increase in outreach from Duke to the public for this game, it's simply because there wasn't a huge demand for those tickets from the general public.

In any case, I don't think there is reason to think that the non-student portion of the student section against Miami was substantially different than the non-student portion of the student section in the non-marquee ACC games of the past few years.

Duvall
01-15-2015, 01:15 PM
This is a strange amount of attention to pay to the rooting habits and practices of teenaged spectators.

MulletMan
01-15-2015, 01:24 PM
While we're on the subject, I will say that the general environment has become too much of a production for me. I was an undergrad in the late 90's and now am back as a grad student. Everything is choreographed - the same songs played over the loudspeakers at the same times, the same movements from the crowd, even the student-generated cheers get old. What happened to all of the creativity we used to be known for? There is zero spontaneity. And the fan cam needs to go. It's the result of our constant desire to be seen, and it results in everyone staring up at the screen looking for themselves rather than being present in the moment. I would love it if the scoreboard was only used as an actual scoreboard and didn't play videos at all, but I assume I'm in the minority on that issue.

And back in the 90's the undergrads occupied the entire "TV" side as well as more than half of the "non-TV side." What the heck happened that the non-TV side is now entirely ticket holders (plus opponents fans and guests of the players)? Are students really not that interested in attending?

</ rant from old fart>

3 problems:

1. Smart phones - people are disengaged while in Cameron. People are texting, surfing, doing whatever the hell during the TOs and often during the games.
2. Apathy - we are victims of our own success. Unless its UNC or we're #1 or its a big time TV game UGrads seem to have other obligations. That's not right or wrong, it just is.
3. Coordination - where are the identifiable sections of UGrads and Grads to communicate? We know where Native it, but that's it. People need to get together and work that isht out. When we were there, UGrads were still on the Non-TV side and we could coordinate 3 sides of Cameron. Now the Grads are under both hoops and the UGrads on the TV side... that should be workable. Get some dry erase boards, dammmmit! (And get off my lawn!)

Tickets:
(In a nutshell) In the early 2000s, grads continually over-attended games (meaning more grads showed up than tickets were allocated). This was true for all games, not just big games. We continually asked for more tickets and were eventually rewarded. However, at the same time, the ugrads were not filling, so they lost some seats (behind the visitors bench first, then more and more of the non-TV side). Grads were eventually given the section next to the band, and a portion of the corner of the nonTV side along with their early 2000s home in the 20 endzone. Since that reallocation, ugrad attendance has continued to fall and so more and more games have late public on sales from the ticket office to fill the TV side.

I need to run, but feel free to respond with more Qs, and I will try to answer as best I can.

CDu
01-15-2015, 01:30 PM
This is a strange amount of attention to pay to the rooting habits and practices of teenaged spectators.

I don't know about others, but I can say that I've spent virtually no attention to the rooting habits/practices of teenaged spectators. I'm just noting the evidence: the university has reallocated a lot of the "seating" space away from the undergrads and to the grads and general public. Further, I'm taking my understanding of my experiences as an undergrad over a decade ago (when undergrad attendance was starting/continuing to decline). Based on the facts and my anecdotal evidence as a student, I surmise that the undergrad attendance has continued to decline to the point that the university felt the need to revise the allocation of seating space to try to fill the stands.

And given that assumption, and (again) my own personal experiences 13+ years ago, and the obvious proliferation of technology and TV coverage of games, I am just hypothesizing the reasons why undergrad attendance has declined over the past 10-15 years.

One can discuss the phenomenon without it being strange/creepy.

throatybeard
01-15-2015, 01:37 PM
I wasn't there but it appears the Crazies were not really into the game last night. Thoughts?

I think we need to stop having this thread thrice annually.

superdave
01-15-2015, 02:39 PM
I think we need to stop having this thread thrice annually.

Nah, just cut and paste from last year's thread.

As for this thread....I never thought about the cell phone thing. I had mine out the whole game, checking twitter, trying to capture Jah's dunks. Bad habit....

weezie
01-15-2015, 06:35 PM
I think we need to stop having this thread thrice annually.

Wouldn't you say it's more of a season marker...along the lines of "It's all over!" "The Crusties are Dumb and Fat!"
and "holes Caught Cheating!"