Unc@ncsu 1/14/15

[moonpie23]

breathlessly awaiting State's continuance of shooting 62% from beyond the arc.



wolves revert

[Wander]

Unfortunately, Joel James only got to make three horrible basketball plays in his 80 seconds (missing the most open layup you'll ever see, a foul on an easy rebound he didn't need to foul for, and a foul on a loose ball he had zero chance of getting) before sitting for what I'm guessing will be the entire half.

[duketaylor]

Naturally, the Wolfies can't shoot tonight, how typical.

[FerryFor50]

Pretty typical.

Hopefully the Wuffies pull out a Miami-esque 2nd half.

Wonder where all the shot blocking for NCSU is this game. :rolleyes:

[FerryFor50]

Trevor Lacey is 1-8 so far. And he's been getting good looks.

[FerryFor50]

At least Kyle Washington is still hitting shots.

[Duvall]

I hope everyone that picked NC State as their second-favorite ACC team is happy now.

[Dukehky]

Who wants to go to Vegas and put their life savings on ND against Miami next game? The post Duke let down is real guys.

[ncexnyc]

Trevor Lacey is 1-8 so far. And he's been getting good looks.

So what else is new in the world of UNC vs State? It's the same old story year after year with the Pack.

[FerryFor50]

State is playing much better this half. Now, if they can avoid foul trouble...

[Dukehky]

I want UNC to win this game. I hope they're favored when we get them for the first time. I don't care how poorly we've played over the past few weeks, we are still miles better than Carolina. When teams don't shoot 60 percent from deep, we'll be okay, and we damn sure don't have to worry about Carolina doing that.

[devildeac]

State is playing much better this half. Now, if they can avoid foul trouble...

With acc refs?


BWAHAHAHA!!

[FerryFor50]

With acc refs?


BWAHAHAHA!!

Yea, I should have used <irony> tags.

I notice that UNC gets to use their hands on the perimeter a lot more than Duke does.

[DevilWearsPrada]

NCState is down 10 and in serious foul trouble.

Come on Wuffies!

[devildeac]

Yea, I should have used <irony> tags.

I notice that UNC gets to use their hands on the perimeter a lot more than Duke does.

You must be imagining that one also:rolleyes:;).

Oh, wait...

[MartyClark]

NCState is down 10 and in serious foul trouble.

Come on Wuffies!

It's over. Carolina outplayed them. I hate this.

[WakeDevil]

I want UNC to win this game. I hope they're favored when we get them for the first time. I don't care how poorly we've played over the past few weeks, we are still miles better than Carolina. When teams don't shoot 60 percent from deep, we'll be okay, and we damn sure don't have to worry about Carolina doing that.

Ban?

[DevilWearsPrada]

It's over. Carolina outplayed them. I hate this.

Unc up 12 and with Wuffies in foul trouble...... Its pretty much over. Unc is running. Dadgummit.:(:eek:

[grossbus]

They didn't have to do much to do that.

[FerryFor50]

Weird. Bee Jay Anya fouled out. :rolleyes:

[devildeac]

NCSU <42% FG and <29% 3FG. Where did I read that before:rolleyes:? The things I've missed so far are the double digit deficit early and the 20+ TO for the Pack. And they've also managed to play such tough D that the cheaters are 60% FG and 57% 3 FG. Way to go State:rolleyes::mad:.

[tbyers11]

Weird. Bee Jay Anya fouled out. :rolleyes:

With almost 7 minutes left. :rolleyes:

Turner up next.

[arnie]

Unc up 12 and with Wuffies in foul trouble...... Its pretty much over. Unc is running. Dadgummit.:(:eek:

Death, taxes and Heels own the Pack.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Weird. Bee Jay Anya fouled out. :rolleyes:

State is in serious foul trouble. Anya gone. Come on Wuffies, get some stops!

[CR9]

NC State typically reverted to type. I hate this.

[Duvall]

Yep. This is why they're NC State.

[devildeac]

With almost 7 minutes left. :rolleyes:

Turner up next.

And no cheater with more than 3 PF.

Elmor-on have any comments on this one or do they actually have a decent announcer or two at the PNC?

[FerryFor50]

Also weird. Kennedy Meeks, who averages 3 fouls per game, only has one foul.

[FerryFor50]

And no cheater with more than 3 PF.

Elmor-on have any comments on this one or do they actually have a decent announcer or two at the PNC?

LaPhonso Ellis is doing the color commentary. They save Len Elmore for Duke games.

[DevilWearsPrada]

This sucks again tonight. Wolfpack must get stops and not foul.
Unc up 9

[devildeac]

LaPhonso Ellis is doing the color commentary. They save Len Elmore for Duke games.

We do indeed get all the calls:rolleyes:.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Jamie Luckie got that call correct. Ball to Wolfpack!

[Wander]

Reminds me of a Jay Bilas saying - "heat check" is just another term for "bad shot." Turner got them back into the game at the end, but NC State basically gave up on offense other than having him shoot threes at the end.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Turner for State just fouled out.

[jipops]

To be fair, unc is probably a better team than we are right now.

[FerryFor50]

Kind of wish they'd change the late game foul rule to prevent teams from using intentional fouls as a strategy to avoid having a team take a 3.

The team should have the option to take the FTs or the ball.

[DevilWearsPrada]

What a tough loss for the WolfPack. Had the Wuffies not gotten into early foul trouble. I believe they would have won. State came back with being 12 down.

Both State and Carolina played a great game tonight.

[CDu]

Yeah I don't lay this loss on State. UNC plays better defense than we do. And tonight UNC played better offense than we did on Sunday.

Did State play better against us than against UNC? Sure. But the reason we lost and UNC didn't is because UNC played better than we did on both ends of the floor.

It is frustrating to say this because we are more talented than UNC, but UNC is playing far better basketball at the moment.

[Furniture]

Yeah I don't lay this loss on State. UNC plays better defense than we do. And tonight UNC played better offense than we did on Sunday.

Did State play better against us than against UNC? Sure. But the reason we lost and UNC didn't is because UNC played better than we did on both ends of the floor.

It is frustrating to say this because we are more talented than UNC, but UNC is playing far better basketball at the moment.

I think you are correct. They pLay a lot of bench too.

[FerryFor50]

Yeah I don't lay this loss on State. UNC plays better defense than we do. And tonight UNC played better offense than we did on Sunday.

Did State play better against us than against UNC? Sure. But the reason we lost and UNC didn't is because UNC played better than we did on both ends of the floor.

It is frustrating to say this because we are more talented than UNC, but UNC is playing far better basketball at the moment.

Seeing as how State lost by only 2 points, I lay the blame on the 32% 3 point shooting, which was a 30 percentage point swing from the Duke game. UNC guarded the 3pt shot just as well as Duke did. State just missed them this game.

[jv001]

I think you are correct. They pLay a lot of bench too.

And with the depth on the front line, they block a lot of shots. That can cover up some bad defense. GoDuke!

[Duvall]

It is frustrating to say this because we are more talented than UNC, but UNC is playing far better basketball at the moment.

Well, let's hope so - Duke is playing its worst basketball in decades.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Well, let's hope so - Duke is playing its worst basketball in decades.
And by "decades" you mean March 2014, right?

[#1Duke]

Seeing as how State lost by only 2 points, I lay the blame on the 32% 3 point shooting, which was a 30 percentage point swing from the Duke game. UNC guarded the 3pt shot just as well as Duke did. State just missed them this game.

UNC played State better on the road at their house than we played them at home.

They just did. UNC defense was better than ours was.

[Duvall]

And by "decades" you mean March 2014, right?


Must have missed the back to back double-digit losses to unranked teams last season.

It's been a bad, bad week.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Good/Tough road win for the Heels. Made some execution errors late along with some clutch bombs from State that got it tight at the end but solid FT shooting iced it.

Roy Williams is a very good coach. It's gotta be said because too many times I see UNC fans and rival fans start negative stuff and then people think by repeating it often enough and hearing it often that it must be true.

Wrong.

This team is getting better.

He has this team playing tactical, disciplined, winning basketball. He has lots of parts to build with. He has one complete player, Paige. Everybody else has strengths, but also a weakness that he has coached them to recognize and not try to do too much.

They run several different sets, often requiring multiple screens, and generally do a good job executing to get the shot they want. They are unselfish. That takes good coaching.

Defensively, they are long, active, and have shown steady effort lately, deep into the bench. They challenge almost every shot. And play passing lanes well. They have quick hands. The help is usually there when somebody gets beat. Again, good defensive coaching.

I thought the ball bounced States way the first half. Seemed like every rebound went right to them. And lots of questionable calls both ways, but seemed to even out overall.

James didn't have a good game tonight, and he's a project, but he's coming along nicely. Disrespect him at your own peril. When Roy needs big, he's there with strong effort and energy. He didn't tonight, but he can also score. Again, credit Roy with having him prepared to play quality minutes in big games. We saw his value in the Louisville game, and he's going to be needed more as the season goes along. He knows his role and he is contributing when his team calls on him.

If I had to rate this team 1-10 with 10 being the best they can be, I'd put them at about a 7 as of now. Still plenty of room to continue to get better.

Oh, I really enjoy seeing them beat State. It never gets old.

[ncexnyc]

Yeah I don't lay this loss on State. UNC plays better defense than we do. And tonight UNC played better offense than we did on Sunday.

Did State play better against us than against UNC? Sure. But the reason we lost and UNC didn't is because UNC played better than we did on both ends of the floor.

It is frustrating to say this because we are more talented than UNC, but UNC is playing far better basketball at the moment.

Would it be rude to ask you why you believe we are more talented?

[Kedsy]

Would it be rude to ask you why you believe we are more talented?

I'm not CDu, but there are many ways to evaluate talent. I'll give one: high school recruiting rank. It's not 100% accurate, of course, but it's a decent meter for talent.

Here's how Duke's starters plus top sub measure, using the RSCI rank: 1, 7, 12, 13, 21, 31

Here's how UNC's starters plus top sub measure, using the RSCI rank: 9, 28, 40, 56, 57, 93

It's not close, right?

If you take Duke's top 9 against UNC's top 10:

Duke: 1, 7, 12, 13, 21, 27, 31, 35, 61

UNC: 9, 14, 16, 28, 28, 40, 56, 57, 58, 93

Again, not close. If you'd rather use pro potential, we obviously don't know the end of that yet, but you can safely say that Duke will win that, too. In fact, while acknowledging that "talent' doesn't necessarily equal "basketball skill," I can't think of any measure of talent in which this year's Duke team wouldn't be superior to this year's UNC team.

[ncexnyc]

I'm not CDu, but there are many ways to evaluate talent. I'll give one: high school recruiting rank. It's not 100% accurate, of course, but it's a decent meter for talent.

Here's how Duke's starters plus top sub measure, using the RSCI rank: 1, 7, 12, 13, 21, 31

Here's how UNC's starters plus top sub measure, using the RSCI rank: 9, 28, 40, 56, 57, 93

It's not close, right?

If you take Duke's top 9 against UNC's top 10:

Duke: 1, 7, 12, 13, 21, 27, 31, 35, 61

UNC: 9, 14, 16, 28, 28, 40, 56, 57, 58, 93

Again, not close. If you'd rather use pro potential, we obviously don't know the end of that yet, but you can safely say that Duke will win that, too. In fact, while acknowledging that "talent' doesn't necessarily equal "basketball skill," I can't think of any measure of talent in which this year's Duke team wouldn't be superior to this year's UNC team.

I know it's early in the season and things would certainly look better with a win this weekend, but could we be seeing a reverse of what we saw in the past? In the not to distant past it was UNC that scoring the higher rated recruits, yet we found a way to play together as a unit. Now we've been scoring the bigger names, but they can't seem to gel defensively.

Again, it's way too early to jump to any conclusions, but it is something to think about.

[BD80]

To be fair, unc is probably a better team than we are right now.

Well, to be fair, they don't waste their time taking classes, they can be more focused

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Well, to be fair, they don't waste their time taking classes, they can be more focused

Well played, its nice to have this as a back up to anything that UNC ever does good. We can always go back to, well you cheated for 2 decades sooooo....

In all seriousness though this UNC team is playing really good basketball and there is no evidence that they aren't going to class. Still hilarious though.

[UrinalCake]

I know it's early in the season and things would certainly look better with a win this weekend, but could we be seeing a reverse of what we saw in the past? In the not to distant past it was UNC that scoring the higher rated recruits, yet we found a way to play together as a unit. Now we've been scoring the bigger names, but they can't seem to gel defensively.

Again, it's way too early to jump to any conclusions, but it is something to think about.

That all comes from experience. We're starting three freshmen, while their core has been together for a couple years. Their freshmen are allowed to be role players, rather than relying on them to be leaders.

Strange how a few weeks ago we beat Wisconsin on the road while they lost to Butler at home. They were the ones going full meltdown while we were booking tickets to the final four. Things can turn around quickly and hopefully they will again before the season is up.

[JStuart]

Well played, its nice to have this as a back up to anything that UNC ever does good. We can always go back to, well you cheated for 2 decades sooooo....

In all seriousness though this UNC team is playing really good basketball and there is no evidence that they aren't going to class. Still hilarious though.

Yeah, but there is no evidence that they ARE going to class, either. For 20+ years we all assumed they were attending classes, and they weren't. They haven't come out and shown evidence to the contrary; indeed, there are hints from the Wanstain (sic) report that the paper classes weren't confined to the AFAM department alone.
They simply haven't stated any answers to the basic question, 'how many games in the past were played with ineligible players, and are the current players actually eligible now?'
Notre Dame academically suspended one of their starters. When was the last time unc did that? Seriously? I believe it was last century.

[gumbomoop]

If you'd rather use pro potential, we obviously don't know the end of that yet, but you can safely say that Duke will win that, too.

I need to think about this, especially "safely." By "pro," do you mean NBA or NBA and Europe, Asia, wherever? And by "potential," do you mean starting in NBA, starring in NBA, making an NBA roster?

It must be true that the two best bets to play for some years in the NBA are Jahlil and Justise.

After that, Paige?

Maybe 2-3 out of Johnson, Tokoto, Meeks, Hicks, Jackson.

I guess Tyus, but Rasheed and Amile seem long shots, and Quinn, Matt, Marshall longer still.

Pinson and Grayson, too far away.

If we count James and Britt, though, it's UNC, safely.

[jv001]

Good/Tough road win for the Heels. Made some execution errors late along with some clutch bombs from State that got it tight at the end but solid FT shooting iced it.

Roy Williams is a very good coach. It's gotta be said because too many times I see UNC fans and rival fans start negative stuff and then people think by repeating it often enough and hearing it often that it must be true.

Wrong.

This team is getting better.

He has this team playing tactical, disciplined, winning basketball. He has lots of parts to build with. He has one complete player, Paige. Everybody else has strengths, but also a weakness that he has coached them to recognize and not try to do too much.

They run several different sets, often requiring multiple screens, and generally do a good job executing to get the shot they want. They are unselfish. That takes good coaching.

Defensively, they are long, active, and have shown steady effort lately, deep into the bench. They challenge almost every shot. And play passing lanes well. They have quick hands. The help is usually there when somebody gets beat. Again, good defensive coaching.

I thought the ball bounced States way the first half. Seemed like every rebound went right to them. And lots of questionable calls both ways, but seemed to even out overall.

James didn't have a good game tonight, and he's a project, but he's coming along nicely. Disrespect him at your own peril. When Roy needs big, he's there with strong effort and energy. He didn't tonight, but he can also score. Again, credit Roy with having him prepared to play quality minutes in big games. We saw his value in the Louisville game, and he's going to be needed more as the season goes along. He knows his role and he is contributing when his team calls on him.

If I had to rate this team 1-10 with 10 being the best they can be, I'd put them at about a 7 as of now. Still plenty of room to continue to get better.

Oh, I really enjoy seeing them beat State. It never gets old.
Since you're here to lift up your tarheels and scold posters that have stated that old roy is not a great coach and James and Britt are not the players you think they are, I just wonder how many of the current unc players actually attend class. I know for 18 years plenty didn't. As for uncheaters beating State, it never get's old seeing Duke players that actually go to class beat uncheaters. GoDuke!

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Eh, I don't feel scolded by that post, dude is just sticking up for his guy. Roy is a good coach whether we give him credit for it or not. However, no defense for the no class stuff.

But we should watch how we treat Wheat on this board, the guy has always been a fair poster and nothing but respectful. No need to bring him down or challenge every post. If not we risk losing a valuable poster who has a unique insight on our biggest rival.

Its not his place to answer for the sins of his favorite team and every time he posts there is no need for us to constantly use it as ammunition against him. It's becoming a trend that needs to be reversed.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I have to admit, this was a fun game to watch. I have a hard time getting too much negative emotion up towards this UNC team - I wouldn't go nearly so far as to call them "likeable" and they do wear that horrible color of blue... but their individual players don't really get my dander up. Paige is a great competitor by any measure. Meeks seems to have as much potential as anyone in the ACC - he just hasn't learned how to play in his new body yet. And most of their other players seem like they are 6'5 - 6'9 and lanky. Except Joel who is beefy but doesn't play like it.

Anyways, with that embarrassing caveat out of the way, I like the State team too. They are a very scrappy bunch with a couple of guys who can shoot the lights out and some big boys underneath who are eager to bump around and leave some bruises on their opponent.

UNC looked like they were going to pull away there late in the game, but this year's iteration of State really seems less likely to fold than teams in recent years. They are going to win a lot of games and give teams problems come late February and early March.

Two takeaways from the game that aren't related to the teams who played a fun game:

1) I was impressed with the refs in this game. I can't point to any particular instances, but it seemed they did a good job of letting guys play rather than leaning heavy on the whistle, and were quick to correct any mistakes they made. With the exception of the last two minutes of game play, the pace seemed good and the flow of the game felt much more natural than several games I have watched recently.

2) The crowd seemed really disappointing. I know our crowd earned some criticism this weak for a lackluster showing, but really, with State attempting to mount a furious comeback in the final minutes, the crowd seemed to disappear at times.

So, yeah, I enjoyed watching these two go at each other. I didn't have any particular emotions attached to the outcome. I'm impressed with UNC's progress this year - knocking off Louisville and then holding off State shows a maturity that their team lacked earlier in the season.

Now, let's go win a bunch of games in a row and show them all whose conference this is! Go Duke!

[CDu]

Would it be rude to ask you why you believe we are more talented?


I'm not CDu, but there are many ways to evaluate talent. I'll give one: high school recruiting rank. It's not 100% accurate, of course, but it's a decent meter for talent.

Here's how Duke's starters plus top sub measure, using the RSCI rank: 1, 7, 12, 13, 21, 31

Here's how UNC's starters plus top sub measure, using the RSCI rank: 9, 28, 40, 56, 57, 93

It's not close, right?

If you take Duke's top 9 against UNC's top 10:

Duke: 1, 7, 12, 13, 21, 27, 31, 35, 61

UNC: 9, 14, 16, 28, 28, 40, 56, 57, 58, 93

Again, not close. If you'd rather use pro potential, we obviously don't know the end of that yet, but you can safely say that Duke will win that, too. In fact, while acknowledging that "talent' doesn't necessarily equal "basketball skill," I can't think of any measure of talent in which this year's Duke team wouldn't be superior to this year's UNC team.

Kedsy has done a pretty good job of this, but I'll add that I was basing it on top-end talent, likely NBA starters, and number of McDonald's All-Americans. I think Duke wins on all of those fronts.

I don't think there are any sure-fire future NBA starters on UNC's roster right now. Maybe Paige becomes more of a PG, but I think he's really an undersized and under-athletic SG capable of playing PG rather than a PG. Kind of like Seth Curry in some ways. He's better than Curry, and as such will probably make a capable backup scoring guard. I think Meeks is too short to play his natural position in the NBA, and as such is destined to be a backup. Brice Johnson is too skinny and too soft to be an impact player, and also will likely be a backup. Tokoto is probably the closest to a starting NBA player right now due to his athletic gifts (he's kind of becoming a KJ McDaniel type of guy), followed by Jackson and Pinson. Nobody else will sniff the league. Meanwhile, Duke has two surefire starters in Okafor and Winslow, and a third guy who stands a good shot at it (Tyus Jones). I think Cook will be a good 3rd guard in the league like Paige. I think Sulaimon has the talent to make it, but again is more of a third guard. But basically I see 5 or 6 NBA role players on the UNC roster compared with one star, one solid starter, one potential starter, and another role player or two.

The advantage UNC has right now is that they are bigger, more experienced, and play better defense. As of right now, they are the better team. Hopefully the talent edge starts to show itself as the coaching staff tries to push the right buttons moving forward.

[jv001]

Kedsy has done a pretty good job of this, but I'll add that I was basing it on top-end talent, likely NBA starters, and number of McDonald's All-Americans. I think Duke wins on all of those fronts.

I don't think there are any sure-fire future NBA starters on UNC's roster right now. Maybe Paige becomes more of a PG, but I think he's really an undersized and under-athletic SG capable of playing PG rather than a PG. Kind of like Seth Curry in some ways. He's better than Curry, and as such will probably make a capable backup scoring guard. I think Meeks is too short to play his natural position in the NBA, and as such is destined to be a backup. Brice Johnson is too skinny and too soft to be an impact player, and also will likely be a backup. Tokoto is probably the closest to a starting NBA player right now due to his athletic gifts (he's kind of becoming a KJ McDaniel type of guy), followed by Jackson and Pinson. Nobody else will sniff the league. Meanwhile, Duke has two surefire starters in Okafor and Winslow, and a third guy who stands a good shot at it (Tyus Jones). I think Cook will be a good 3rd guard in the league like Paige. I think Sulaimon has the talent to make it, but again is more of a third guard. But basically I see 5 or 6 NBA role players on the UNC roster compared with one star, one solid starter, one potential starter, and another role player or two.

The advantage UNC has right now is that they are bigger, more experienced, and play better defense. As of right now, they are the better team. Hopefully the talent edge starts to show itself as the coaching staff tries to push the right buttons moving forward.

Ahhhhh!! Here comes Wheat, God bless his soul :cool: GoDuke!