Duke @ Navy

[Bob Green]

Duke travels to Annapolis to play the Naval Academy this Saturday with a scheduled 1 p.m. EST kick-off. We have a chance to win our second game of the season and even our record at 2-2.

The last time Duke won two consecutive games was on 9/6/03 and 9/13/03 with victories over Western Carolina (29-3) and Rice (27-24) respectively. However, Western Carolina is I-AA. The last time Duke won two consecutive games against I-A opponents was on 9/20/97 and 9/27/97 with victories over Army (20-17) and Navy (26-17) respectively. However, both those games were at home. The last time Duke won two consecutive games, on the road, was on 9/24/94 and 10/1/94 with victories at Georgia Tech (27-12) and at Navy (47-14).

Navy is coming into the game at 1-2 with consecutive losses against Rutgers and Ball State. Against Ball State, in a 34-31 overtime loss, they rushed for 521 yards, but had two lost fumbles and two blocked field goal attempts. Coach Paul Johnson stated, in an article in the Baltimore Sun, that he was more concerned with the defense which lined up incorrectly and didn't seem to know assigned responsibilities.

We need everyone watching or listening, everyone rooting hard, everyone willing our team to victory this Saturday (Sunday morning for me) against the Midshipman. Two wins in a row is the goal, two wins in a row! We have a brand new streak to keep alive!

[Bluedawg]

Duke travels to Annapolis to play the Naval Academy this Saturday with a scheduled 1 p.m. EST kick-off. We have a chance to win our second game of the season and even our record at 2-2.

The last time Duke won two consecutive games was on 9/6/03 and 9/13/03 with victories over Western Carolina (29-3) and Rice (27-24) respectively. However, Western Carolina is I-AA. The last time Duke won two consecutive games against I-A opponents was on 9/20/97 and 9/27/97 with victories over Army (20-17) and Navy (26-17) respectively. However, both those games were at home. The last time Duke won two consecutive games, on the road, was on 9/24/94 and 10/1/94 with victories at Georgia Tech (27-12) and at Navy (47-14).

Navy is coming into the game at 1-2 with consecutive losses against Rutgers and Ball State. Against Ball State, in a 34-31 overtime loss, they rushed for 521 yards, but had two lost fumbles and two blocked field goal attempts. Coach Paul Johnson stated, in an article in the Baltimore Sun, that he was more concerned with the defense which lined up incorrectly and didn't seem to know assigned responsibilities.

We need everyone watching or listening, everyone rooting hard, everyone willing our team to victory this Saturday (Sunday morning for me) against the Midshipman. Two wins in a row is the goal, two wins in a row! We have a brand new streak to keep alive!

Are you the least bit pulled in two different directions with Duke going up against the United States Navy and you being United States Navy Retired?

[Johnboy]

My Dad and I went a couple years ago to the Duke-Navy game in Annapolis. If you get a chance to go, then go. It is a real treat to go to their stadium (http://navysports.cstv.com/facilities/memorial-stadium.html)and see all the pagentry and the fine display of sportsmanship. The opposite of Rutgers, you might say. Simply a great experience. Take the kids.

[4decadedukie]

I'll be there, rooting for Duke and wearing lots of Blue Devil regalia, despite two-decades in Navy uniform (not to mention most of my friends and colleagues being Navy-affiliated and USNA alumni). It is always a great deal of fun, and even better when Duke wins.

[duketaylor]

When did you retire? Congrats!! GO DUKE!!!
duke "son-of-a-gun" taylor

[MulletMan]

I feel like Duke might be able to play a good game against Navy. However, it sounds like Navy can pretty much do whatever they want on the ground. I think Duke will need to minimize the long Navy drives and keep our defense fresh. Continual pounding from a good rushing attack can really wear a defense down by the fourth quarter. If we can keep our front 7 fresh and not give up any long play-action passes, we might have a good shot to win.

Of course, taking care of the ball when we have it will also be a huge key.

[SoCalDukeFan]

With Direct TV I get to watch Duke football.

SoCal

[4decadedukie]

When did you retire? Congrats!! GO DUKE!!!
duke "son-of-a-gun" taylor

April, 1989.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Duke travels to Annapolis to play the Naval Academy this Saturday with a scheduled 1 p.m. EST kick-off. We have a chance to win our second game of the season and even our record at 2-2.

The last time Duke won two consecutive games against I-A opponents was on 9/20/97 and 9/27/97 with victories over Army (20-17) and Navy (26-17) respectively. However, both those games were at home. The last time Duke won two consecutive games, on the road, was on 9/24/94 and 10/1/94 with victories at Georgia Tech (27-12) and at Navy (47-14).


I like the trend of beating Navy as the second of two consecutive victories! Here is to history repeating itself again!

Go Duke! Beat Navy!

[Bluedawg]

Duke beat Northwestern at its own offensive game Saturday night, spreading the Wildcats out by using three and four wide receiver sets and quick passes to efficiently move down the field.
Lewis and Duke thrive in spread formation (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2007/09/17/Football/Lewis.And.Duke.Thrive.In.Spread.Formation-2972508.shtml)

It worked great. I'd hate to see them go away from it!

[Bob Green]

When did you retire? Congrats!! GO DUKE!!!
duke "son-of-a-gun" taylor

August 1, 2007.

[Bob Green]

Are you the least bit pulled in two different directions with Duke going up against the United States Navy and you being United States Navy Retired?

No! I will pull for Navy every game of the year except against Duke. On Saturday the Naval Academy (bunch of future zeros* anyway) is the enemy.

* Navy enlisted slang for officers

[allenmurray]

In my mind there is no way Duke will beat Navy this Saturday
I am a huge Duke F-Ball fan, season tickets for 12 years now

But i know DUKE

The last 5 wins for Duke, they have lost the next game by at least 20 points

There heads are going to explode thats how big they are
we will score a first half TD, and thats it

I dont think we have a chance against a mad Navy team the week after they lost to BALL STATE!!!!

Next week at Miami will be a very close game

Hopefully Duke's heads will be average size, but Navy will win
24-7

GO TO HELL CAROLINA!!!

[Bob Green]

I have to disagree. The victory at Northwestern didn't swell any heads but it sure got a monkey off our backs.

As far as Navy goes, their defense is struggling. I recommend a trip to the Baltimore Sun sports page to read Paul Johnson's comments.

My prediction: Duke 38 - Navy 34.

[SilkyJ]

My Dad and I went a couple years ago to the Duke-Navy game in Annapolis. If you get a chance to go, then go. It is a real treat to go to their stadium (http://navysports.cstv.com/facilities/memorial-stadium.html)and see all the pagentry and the fine display of sportsmanship. The opposite of Rutgers, you might say. Simply a great experience. Take the kids.

100% agreed. I went a couple years back while I was still in school. The pregame alumni tailgate was a lot of fun, and none other than the old ball coach steve spurrier showed up! Crazy towel guy was there and manned the keg for quite a while and we actually had a decent crowd at the game. The f-18s flying overhead at the beginning of the game, which was really cool (and I think they do that every game) they came in at tree top level and buzzed the stadium....with top gun playing on the jumbotron, of course.

[Johnboy]

100% agreed. I went a couple years back while I was still in school. The pregame alumni tailgate was a lot of fun, and none other than the old ball coach steve spurrier showed up! Crazy towel guy was there and manned the keg for quite a while and we actually had a decent crowd at the game. The f-18s flying overhead at the beginning of the game, which was really cool (and I think they do that every game) they came in at tree top level and buzzed the stadium....with top gun playing on the jumbotron, of course.

We went to the alumni tailgate, too. Big fun.

[allenmurray]

I have to disagree. The victory at Northwestern didn't swell any heads but it sure got a monkey off our backs.

As far as Navy goes, their defense is struggling. I recommend a trip to the Baltimore Sun sports page to read Paul Johnson's comments.

My prediction: Duke 38 - Navy 34.

Duke does not have the offense in my mind to score 38 against a verry physical Navy team

And if we give up 34 there is no way we can stop them like we did NW on their final drive

Navy Wins, but i still think we have a good chance at MIAIMI

[ehdg]

Would love to attend this game and have gone to a few Duke/Navy games in Annapolis. It's really one nice town and a great atmosphere to watch a game in. The best is to get there early and watch the Midshipmen entering the stadium. But sadly this year the game is on Yom Kippor so I won't be able to attend it. I'll be in Temple praying but will also send out a prayer hoping we get our second win!!

[dukie8]

In my mind there is no way Duke will beat Navy this Saturday
I am a huge Duke F-Ball fan, season tickets for 12 years now

But i know DUKE

The last 5 wins for Duke, they have lost the next game by at least 20 points

There heads are going to explode thats how big they are
we will score a first half TD, and thats it

I dont think we have a chance against a mad Navy team the week after they lost to BALL STATE!!!!

Next week at Miami will be a very close game

Hopefully Duke's heads will be average size, but Navy will win
24-7

GO TO HELL CAROLINA!!!

who were those 5 games against? it makes a big difference if they were against the va techs, fsus and miamis of college football and duke was going to lose by > 20 regardless of the outcome of the prior game.

[hc5duke]

who were those 5 games against? it makes a big difference if they were against the va techs, fsus and miamis of college football and duke was going to lose by > 20 regardless of the outcome of the prior game.

from here (http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/college_football_2005_schedules/duke.htm)

2004:
#6 Lost to NW by 18 (this was preceded by the last time we had consecutive wins, as metioned by Bob Green)
2003-09-13 RICE ,WON 27-24 (OT)
2003-09-20 NORTHWESTERN ,LOST 10-28

#5 ,LOST to Clemson by 33
2003-11-08 GEORGIA TECH ,WON 41-17
2003-11-15 at Clemson ,LOST 7-40

2004:
#4 ,LOST to Navy by 15
2003-11-22 at North Carolina ,WON 30-22 (final game of 2003)
2004-09-04 at Navy ,LOST 12-27

#3 ,LOST to GTech by 17
2004-10-02 THE CITADEL ,WON 28-10
2004-10-16 at Georgia Tech ,LOST 7-24

#2 ,LOST to UNC by 23
2004-11-13 CLEMSON ,WON 16-13
2004-11-20 NORTH CAROLINA ,LOST 17-40

2005:
#1 ,LOST to UVa by 31
2005-09-17 VIRGINIA MILITARY ,WON 40-14
2005-09-24 at Virginia ,LOST 7-38

Average margin of loss: 22.8
Average score: 32.8-10

[captmojo]

The only this week-last week thing I can think of would be a relationship akin to what the Chicago Bears did over the past couple of seasons. I think it's possible that it could be over now, but they had a situation going whereby, win or lose, whoever their opponent is this week, would lose their next game. I think it was quite possibly because of the ferocity of the contact that the Bears were laying on that opponent. Next week, they would be so beaten up by Chicago that nobody had yet recovered to full playing capacity.

Duke, in a tight contest, BEAT NAVY.

[bluedev_92]

I'd love to see Duke football win two in a row, but I think Navy will win this one. Navy racked up 500 rushing yards on Ball State & put up a decent amount of points on a very good Rutgers team. Had they not fumbled twice & had 2 blocked field goals, they would have beaten Ball State handily. Say what you will about Ball State, but they are a good 20 spots higher than Duke in the Sagarin rankings.

Love to see it, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Navy by 14 points

[Bluedawg]

Duke does not have the offense in my mind to score 38 against a verry physical Navy team

And if we give up 34 there is no way we can stop them like we did NW on their final drive

Navy Wins, but i still think we have a good chance at MIAIMI

I think youa re being too short sighted and looking too much at past teams.

[dukemomLA]

I am (of course) rooting feverishly for Duke to beat Navy on Saturday. This is a good team, and a starting block for teams to come. They NEED another victory under their belts to truly believe in themselves.

Let's all put our prayers and energy on this game. It has the potential to be a significant turn-around for the Duke football program.

[Bluedawg]

On Wral's UPickem (http://wral.upickem.net/upickem/contest/questions.asp?weekid=4&contestid=467) 80% of the Fans Picked Navy.

Let's prove them wrong!

[Bob Green]

Navy is attempting to simplify their defense (http://www.capitalonline.com/cgi-bin/read/2007/09_19-10/NAS), while Duke is diversifying its air attack (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/709832.html).

I believe Duke has an opportunity to slice up Navy's defense with its passing attack. The key to the game will be the offensive line giving Thaddeus Lewis time to throw the ball to the talented Duke receivers. And our defense is going to have to contain Navy's running game. We are not going to stop their running game, but we must contain it.

Thad Lewis threw three touchdown passes last week, but he will need to throw four or five this week.

Go Duke! Beat Navy!

[4decadedukie]

Yesterday, I taught a three-hour seminar for Aerospace Engineering First- and Second-Classmen (seniors and juniors) at Navy. They are psyched, after an unanticipated loss to Ball State, and they have a good, smart, hard working team. So do we. It should be a great game; Bev and I plan to arrive by 1100 for the Duke Tailgate. Afterward, we're having dinner with old friends (he's a retired Flag officer and '68 USNA alum), so one of us will be feasting on crow. It should be great fun.

[Troublemaker]

It really hurts Duke's chances that Navy is coming off an upset loss. Well-coached teams like Navy usually lay the smack down in their next game following an upset.

[hc5duke]

...while Duke is diversifying its air attack (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/709832.html)...


Did I hear someone say... "AIRBORNE"!?

(I hope not, the years with that slogan didn't work out so well either)

[throatybeard]

Did I hear someone say... "AIRBORNE"!?

(I hope not, the years with that slogan didn't work out so well either)

My sister's friend joked that the caption should have been "stillborn."

[Bluedawg]

Navy is attempting to simplify their defense (http://www.capitalonline.com/cgi-bin/read/2007/09_19-10/NAS), while Duke is diversifying its air attack (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/709832.html).

I believe Duke has an opportunity to slice up Navy's defense with its passing attack. The key to the game will be the offensive line giving Thaddeus Lewis time to throw the ball to the talented Duke receivers. And our defense is going to have to contain Navy's running game. We are not going to stop their running game, but we must contain it.

Thad Lewis threw three touchdown passes last week, but he will need to throw four or five this week.

Go Duke! Beat Navy!


"The running game will come around soon enough," Riley said. "People are going to come out of the box to cover us [downfield], so the running game will come around."

the old school approach is to pass off of the run, however, i feel just the opposite. Spread the defense and run off of the pass. Make them think "downfield" then run it up their gut. However, Coach Roof is correct...


"We have to find a way to do it, or it will cost us," Roof said. "If you can't run, the defense plays all coverage. They pin their ears back and rush the passer." They MUST find a ground game.

[Bluedawg]

Duke by 7!

[Wander]

No recent replies? Thad Lewis is on fire... Duke 36 Navy 25 with one minute left in the half.

[Schleimer24]

For someone more in the "know" about Duke Football - when was the last time Duke scored 36 points in a half? In the past 10 years since I've been following the team, 36 in a game against a 1-A opponent always seems like a dream.

[Bob Green]

Thad Lewis is 14/21 for 289 yards and 3 TDs. Plus he has rushed for a TD. Duke 36 - Navy 25 at halftime. We have had a great first half on offense. Come on Duke - 30 more minutes!

[Tom B.]

Duke does not have the offense in my mind to score 38 against a verry physical Navy team


How about 36 in the first half? Wow.

[allenmurray]

Our Blue Devils played a hech of a first half in Annapolis

Thadd looked like a heisman QB

Navy had a quick 15-0 run, but we pulled back with a quick 2 TD's

Hopefully this lead will last!!!

Go TO Hell CAROLINA!!!

[jimmymax]

Duke does not have the offense in my mind to score 38 against a verry physical Navy team


wow -- 36 at the half. never underestimate the power of the mind!

[jimsumner]

Speaking of Navy. I've been denigrating them because they lost at home to Ball State. But Ball State is beating Nebraska in Lincoln so that may not be the black eye I had thought.

[Jarhead]

This is making me very nervous, just like some of those close basketball games. I can't sit still. Keep it, Blue Britches. Beat Navy.

[captmojo]

Go TO Hell CAROLINA!!

37-3 at South Florida. Your wish has come true!

[Udaman]

Here's what Navy has done on their 3rd downs this game:


3rd and 10. 9 yard gain (got the first on 4th down attempt)
3rd and 9. 4 yard gain.
3rd and 8. 8 yard pass completion - first down.
3rd and 6. 10 yard rush - first down
3rd and 6. 2 yard rush
3rd and 3. 4 yard rush - first down
3rd and 5. 12 yard pass - first down
3rd and 2. 11 yard TD pass
3rd and 8. 11 yard rush - first down
3rd and 5. 43 yard pass completion - first down.
3rd and 9. 21 yard pass completion - first down.

So that's Navy making 8 of 11 3rd downs (and really 9 of 11 because one of them gave them the ability to go for it on 4th). And most of these are 3rd and long situations. Arghhh!

In the first half the radio guys said - "If Duke can keep Navy at 3rd and long all game, they'll win this game." Ummm - not if they can't freaking stop them.

[captmojo]

Wooooo. I spoke too quickly. The holes just put it in the zone for 7 more. This time against the 2nd string. They were dancing like it had been a go-ahead score.

[DukeUsul]

It's nice to see our offense working well. Regardless of the outcome, just getting some more confidence with the offensive game will be big. It's good to see Lewis and Riley hooking up well.

[Bob Green]

We are into the 4th quarter with an 11 point lead, 43-32. 15 more minutes. Go Duke! Beat Navy!

[tombrady]

We are into the 4th quarter with an 11 point lead, 43-32. 15 more minutes. Go Duke! Beat Navy!

damn missed field goals are so stupid.

[DukeUsul]

Let's do this. Let's get a score. Eron Riley down the sideline for a TD. Please.

[arydolphin]

Game is now tied at 43, Duke has the ball and is driving, but still in their own territory. 3 and a half minutes are remaining in the game.

[arydolphin]

Duke gets intercepted by Navy when trying to get into the Navy red zone. Navy is now down to the Duke 25 yard line, trying to get into position for a game-winning FG.

[DukeUsul]

Sick of moral victories and close ones. :-(

[Tom B.]

Navy kicks a 44-yard field goal to win as time expires.

[chattpanther]

No such thing as moral victories with an 11 point lead in the 4th quarter against a very bad team.

[dukeisawesome]

I feel like we got robbed. The big run for a TD where they called hold was very questionable as was the hold on the center when we got the first down.

[buddy]

Only 7 points in the second half, after a great first half performance. No defense when we needed it this week. This shoulda been a win.

[Bob Green]

A very disappointing 4th quarter.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

There was probably a half dozen points at which this game could've been won, but we just made too many mistakes and blew it after playing a pristine first half on offense.

This is Duke football, ladies and gentlemen, for better or worse. There were so many good things to take away from this game, but we've heard that story plenty of times before. You either win or you lose. There were no moral victories today.

Looking forward to next week's game at the Orange Bowl. I will be in attendance.

[chattpanther]

I feel like we got robbed. The big run for a TD where they called hold was very questionable as was the hold on the center when we got the first down.

It seems to me that we should not be in a position to get robbed. It doesn't get any easier than Navy. For this year at least.

[DBFAN]

You can put this loss on the Duke coaching staff. They got so conservative in the second half forcing the guys to try win it at the end. They should have continued the second half the way they played the first. Instead they played not to lose, instead of playing to win.

[DBFAN]

This game was free to watch online on the CSTV site

[dukeman28428]

3 personal fouls, holding at a critical time late in game, missed extra point and missing a 21 yard field goal leaves me with an empty and sick feeling.
This game should have been ours as Navy is not that good.

[dukeisawesome]

Silver Lining

USF 37 UNC 10

[formerdukeathlete]

You can put this loss on the Duke coaching staff. They got so conservative in the second half forcing the guys to try win it at the end. They should have continued the second half the way they played the first. Instead they played not to lose, instead of playing to win.

The importance or recruiting athlete (the top athletes) versus good all around players is overrated.

USF clocks Auburn and really clocked UNC. Both schools out recruited, way, way outrecruited USF in the last 4 years.

Navy recruits good all around players who do not even make it onto Duke's radar screen, for the most part.

Paul Johnson won today because he is a better head coach. Not to say that we should get rid of Roof and hire Johnson, not to say that Johnson would take the job if offered, it is just obvious that he makes the most of talent as measured by being good all around ball players rather than simply reflective of 40 yard dash times.

[Bluedawg]

Only 7 points in the second half, after a great first half performance. No defense when we needed it this week. This shoulda been a win.

This should have been a win. Did they chage the game plan for the secone half like they did last week?

[dukeisawesome]

Even though Navy may have outcoached us, I'd rather Duke not have an embarassing option offense like Navy does.

[Bluedawg]

This game was free to watch online on the CSTV site

now you tell me

[Bluedawg]

You can put this loss on the Duke coaching staff. They got so conservative in the second half forcing the guys to try win it at the end. They should have continued the second half the way they played the first. Instead they played not to lose, instead of playing to win.

Same thing they did against Northwestern. Why a coaching staff wil stop what's working I don't know. Drives me crazy

[Bluedawg]

Sick of moral victories and close ones. :-(
Small steps. With a QB with these stats, if the coaching staff will let him play Duke wil win some ball games.


T. Lewis, QB
23-36, 428 yds
4 TDs, 1 INT
9 Rush, 9 yds, 1 TD

The big story is Penalty Yards Duke 65 Navy 3

[dukeisawesome]

Thaddeus Lewis is going to be really good. He's only a freshman and looks very poised for his age. The only bad thing I noticed today is he tended to lock in on Riley, but it's hard to blame him for that when Riley had 4 TDs and over 200 yds. Good to see Riley is only a JR too as the passing game is going to remain solid. Only problem is we can't stop anybody!

[allenmurray]

We played so well till the last 8 minutes of the game

The Devils played fabulous on offense and defense

Eron Riley had maybe the game of the year with 4 TD's

But letting Navy march down the field with 80 seconds left is ridiculous

We played great but great is not always enough

We need to get ready for miami, or this win will drag down the entire season for duke

Give credit to Navy's kicker comin on to make a 47-yarder to win

But that drive was horrible defense

We need to play alot better down the stretch in close ball games if we are going to win another game this year

[dukeisawesome]

I don't know what happens to Duke late in games. It's almost like we are cursed. I still think we got robbed on penalties though.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Thad is a soph. But yeah, he's been excellent the last two weeks. He throws a rope, and mostly makes good decisions. We got him for 2 years after this one, and it gives me hope we can sneak into a bowl game one of those years. A good QB can take you far.

I don't think the coaching was nearly as conservative in the 2nd half this week as they were last week. We continued to put it up, and I really think we would've put up at least 2 more TDs in the 2nd half if not for that Boyette fumble and multiple holding penalties. It's hard to blame the coaching staff for that. I give Roof and the guys a pass on this one. The mistakes were made on the field today.

[allenmurray]

I don't know what happens to Duke late in games. It's almost like we are cursed. I still think we got robbed on penalties though.

but letting them drive as much as they wanted to in the 4th quater does not deserve the victory

but 428 yards for thadd does

[feldspar]

You really "can't believe" that this happened? C'mon.

[ChrisP]

I don't think the coaching was nearly as conservative in the 2nd half this week as they were last week. We continued to put it up, and I really think we would've put up at least 2 more TDs in the 2nd half if not for that Boyette fumble and multiple holding penalties. It's hard to blame the coaching staff for that. I give Roof and the guys a pass on this one. The mistakes were made on the field today.

Amen! The players simply made way too many mistakes at crucial times and THAT is what lost this game - NOT coaching. We simply have to find a decent kicker. And I can't remember a game with more 15 yard facemask penalties - what's up with that? Lewis was all-world in the first half and very average in the 2nd. He looked jittery to me - bad handoff to Boyette, tripping and losing yardage on first down on a key series in the 2nd half, and then that last interception! We may have been destined to lose this game today, but there is simply NO way we should have lost it in regulation. That last pick killed us. Not only did we not get a chance to even try a FG (yeah, yeah, I know it would've been dicey with our kickers), but it swung the momentum back to Navy. Even so, how we let them drive so far so fast is beyond me. In my book, the coaches had a good game plan (well, offensively at least). This one's on the players.

[allenmurray]

You really "can't believe" that this happened? C'mon.

idk, i just thought after the first half we had it

[allenmurray]

Thaddeus Lewis is going to be really good. He's only a freshman and looks very poised for his age. The only bad thing I noticed today is he tended to lock in on Riley, but it's hard to blame him for that when Riley had 4 TDs and over 200 yds. Good to see Riley is only a JR too as the passing game is going to remain solid. Only problem is we can't stop anybody!

Lewis is a Sophmore not a freshman

and i wish he was a freshman

[DBFAN]

The fact that they got some penalties, but I would question why they had so many in the second half. I feel that the coaching staff put to much pressure on the team, and when that happens sill mistakes start to occur. The staff seemed to make this a totally different team in the second half. You can not expect that from a team like this. I now question their confidence, even though this game was not their fault.

[jimsumner]

The really frustrating thing--well, one of many--is that if you look at UNC's troubles, Georgia Tech losing today to the Hoos, Wake struggling at home against Maryland, Notre Dame losing again (if you're gonna dream, dream big),I was convincing myself that a five, even six-win season was without the realm of the possible.

But I've said this before. Duke isn't good enough to blow people out and it's pretty darned tough to win close games with a dysfunctional place-kicking game.

[dukeENG2003]

um, I agree with your sentiment, except that we played HORRIBLY on defense all game long, not just in the last 8 minutes.

[stals]

In the past two years I think Duke has lost at least 3 games due to poor placekicking, Wake and UNC last year and now today. It's inexcusable for a D-1 team to have placekickers that can't convert PATs and short FGs they way Duke does. I attended today's game and Surgan just didn't look good (He also stubbed a couple of kickoffs). With adequate kicking, we would have won by at least 3 today. it puts too much pressure on the offense to know they have to put the ball in the endzone every drive because the kicker can't convert.

Ted should have recruited a Kicker last year, and should be looking for a walk-on soccer player now.

[jimsumner]

I asked TR about Surgan before the first game at a media session. His response was that Surgan looked great in practice but he had to prove he could do it in a stadium full of people with a game on the line.

He has all the physical tools. But a miss caused by bad mojo is still a miss. I wonder if he's run out of time to turn it around. Then again, the options don't look all that great either.

[Duvall]

I asked TR about Surgan before the first game at a media session. His response was that Surgan looked great in practice but he had to prove he could do it in a stadium full of people with a game on the line.

He has all the physical tools. But a miss caused by bad mojo is still a miss. I wonder if he's run out of time to turn it around. Then again, the options don't look all that great either.

I don't think Duke can afford to wait. It's a shame that Surgan appears to be the Steve Blass of kicking, but if he were going to get over the pressure he would have done so by now.

I just can't believe Duke is unable to find a mediocre kicker. I'm not asking for an All-American - just someone to make every extra points and most FG of less than 35 yards. Is that too much to ask?

[Lavabe]

In the past two years I think Duke has lost at least 3 games due to poor placekicking, Wake and UNC last year and now today. It's inexcusable for a D-1 team to have placekickers that can't convert PATs and short FGs they way Duke does. I attended today's game and Surgan just didn't look good (He also stubbed a couple of kickoffs). With adequate kicking, we would have won by at least 3 today. it puts too much pressure on the offense to know they have to put the ball in the endzone every drive because the kicker can't convert.

On the other hand, that pressure certainly had amazing effects in the first half. I, for one, am glad when they realize they know they have to put it in the endzone.

WHOOPS ... I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the ATLANTA FALCONS!!:eek:

Oy vei! My Saturdays and Sundays are filled with adventurous football kicking.


Ted should have recruited a Kicker last year, and should be looking for a walk-on soccer player now.

Hindsight being 20/20, I agree with the first clause of this sentence. Having said that, Surgan was a highly touted kicker in high school. As for looking for a walk-on soccer player, I do not want to see ANYONE leaving the men's soccer team in the middle of the soccer season. Why would a soccer player from a solid soccer team choose to leave it for a position on Duke's football team? Think Duke has a Donald Igwebuike (early 80's Clemson soccer & football kicker) somewhere?

As for finding a walk-on, isn't that what Roof did when he found our current placekicker, Meyers? Harris' description was that Meyers is a senior walk-on.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[devilirium]

Would be curious to see how John Feinstein would describe our performance? Something along the lines that there was a conspiracy against The Naval Academy...that giving up 36 pts in 10 minutes of time of possession was blind luck on Duke's part...that Eron Riley is Satan.

I knew that our defense was going to get the ultimate test when their second QB (Bryant) came in and worked his magic. I credit him for getting Navy that winning field goal. That kid was a magician on that play. Our offense was aggressive and freewheeling and awesome.

I thought our boys hung in there. The defense was actually pretty solid against the run for much of the game. Navy gouged on us the pass, and then we got crossed up on that one scramble. They are mentally tough.

Glad to see that Coach Paul Johnson had the decency to wait to congratulate his team by jumping on the pile after it was over. C'mon Paul, you're a coach? Shake Roof's hand and then celebrate in the locker room. No doubt that he's a very good coach, but his mannerisms this year and in the past piss me off.

[ChrisP]

What a lot of people don't realize is that Joe Surgan was a pretty good kicker his freshman year (15-16 PAT's and 6-8 on FG's according to his bio at GoDuke.com). What I want to know is what happened to him after that? He was highly recruited out of HS and his 1st year stats certainly seem to justify his being rated the 4th best kicker in the nation by Scout.com. Anyone have any insight into exactly when and why his troubles began?

[jimsumner]

I agree with Lavabe that the soccer option is a non-starter. Let's look at this logically. Duke soccer is a national power, with a legit chance to be playing deep into the postseason. Head coach John Rennie is retiring at the end of the season. How likely is it that a soccer player is going to abandon his sport of choice, bail out on the coach who recruited him, give up a chance for an NCAA title on the remote possibility that he'll be able to join a mediocre football team in the middle of the season, adjust to a new sport, and make a difference? Just doesn't add up. If TR were going to poach a soccer player, spring would have been the time to do so.

The walkon option might prove useful. It wasn't that long ago that highly-touted, strong-legged but erratic Brent Garber was replaced by 5'7" walk-on Matt Brooks. To Duke's benefit. So maybe one of the walk-ons can channel Brooks.

Or maybe Surgan regains his form. But how do you know? We already know that he can get the job done in practice, so what does a good week in practice tell you? Do you risk it in a game?

I fear that Surgan may be the minor league player who bats .320 in Triple-A. You call him up to the bigs and he hits .150. Back to Triple-A, .320 again. Back to the bigs, .150 again. Eventually you accept the conclusion that he's a Triple-A hitter and move on. Not sure if Duke is at that point with Surgan but if not, it's real close.

[dukemomLA]

We've got some terrific players. We just need a coach.

[ehdg]

I missed seeing the second half but can't believe we lost based on how well we played the first half. My real question though how the heck do we score 35 points in the first half but only 7 in the second half? We did even get a score in the 4th quarter how is this possible after all we did in the first half? I'm shocked and quite saddened by this loss specially considering how well we played in the first half!!

[captmojo]

We've got some terrific players. We just need a coach.

I hate to say it because I figured his head would be called for, but being competitive with nearly all your competition and not being able to pull of the win is something I was told that was a positive indicator of a coach losing his way. In other words, he has been successful at basics and fundamentals but has not instilled in his team knowledge of how to win. He may very well know X's and O's but can't sell his leadership and desire to the team effectively to translate into W's on the record book.

I like Coach Roof and respect him greatly. I'm not calling for his departure, don't want to be in the crowd that does because if I knew that well what was best, I would be in a position to make decisions like that.

Mojo only pawn, in game of life.
Mojo only fan, in vast ocean of ideas.

[Jaymf7]

2 untimely holding penalties, perhaps the worst botched handoff I can remember (though a nice effort by Lewis to break up the return TD), missed FG and PAT, some catchable ball drops, inability to wrap up the second string QB in the 4th Q, etc. And they back a FG in (and hit the long one under pressure).

We played great offensively and really surprised a lot of folks -- we were 2 TD underdogs, I think. Riley had as good a game as any WR I can remember (though I'd take the one late drop back). Lots to feel good about in this game. The loss just sucks.

I feel good about the team and the effort. I just wish I could say that was among the best Duke games I've seen. The end kind of spoiled it.

[Highlander]

For someone more in the "know" about Duke Football - when was the last time Duke scored 36 points in a half? In the past 10 years since I've been following the team, 36 in a game against a 1-A opponent always seems like a dream.

According to the AP article:
"Duke led 36-25 at the half, the highest first-half total for the Blue Devils since they scored 41 points in a 48-35 win over Wake Forest on November 13, 1999."

I remember that game. It was eerily like Wake was replaced by the Keystone cops. Duke would score a TD, Wake would fumble the kickoff or get intercepted deep in their own territory, and Duke would score again. The sad thing was that we let Wake Forest come all the way back to within a score of tying the game before finally putting it away late in the game. Note we only scored 7 points in the second half of that game too.

Oh, and DukeMomLA, seeing Duke lose this way is nothing new for me; I've seen this movie time and time again. Despite numerous coaches trying their hand at directing it, it almost always ends the same way. We're just not good enough to blow people out, and we have to learn how to make plays at the end of a game to win it, particularly our offense. This is the second game in a row we've gone out to a big lead, then been unable to put the other team away. And I agree the kicking game (if you can call it that) is a big reason why.

It's a shame we let another winnable game slip through our fingers, but before you go coach shopping, keep in mind that we've been competitive for our last three games. We only had 3 games all of last season where we had a shot at the end. It might not be much, but its a start. As much as I hate to say it, I'd rather lose this way than getting drubbed 38-7 like past years.

[captmojo]

Ewwwwww. I'd order the drubbing please. No side order of hopes to be dashed. However I don't vote for firing a coach during the season, unless he's a criminal or something.

[allenmurray]

2 untimely holding penalties, perhaps the worst botched handoff I can remember (though a nice effort by Lewis to break up the return TD), missed FG and PAT, some catchable ball drops, inability to wrap up the second string QB in the 4th Q, etc. And they back a FG in (and hit the long one under pressure).

We played great offensively and really surprised a lot of folks -- we were 2 TD underdogs, I think. Riley had as good a game as any WR I can remember (though I'd take the one late drop back). Lots to feel good about in this game. The loss just sucks.

I feel good about the team and the effort. I just wish I could say that was among the best Duke games I've seen. The end kind of spoiled it.

The Devils are way past just playing good or putting in a good effort
we are one of the most losingest programs in the NCAA in the last decade

We need wins, not good games, and this might have spoiled the good season

[mapei]

What a lot of people don't realize is that Joe Surgan was a pretty good kicker his freshman year (15-16 PAT's and 6-8 on FG's according to his bio at GoDuke.com).

To begin, you don't want someone missing PATs ever. But what I find really depressing about those stats is that they suggest Duke only had 16 touchdowns in Surgan's first year, and only 8 FG attempts. Of course, maybe he only played 5 games or something, which I would know if I followed the team more closely.

Whatever the excuses - he was good in HS, he was better as a frosh than now, he kicks well in practice - he is not a varsity college player at this point in his life. I am embarrassed for the University every time Duke football takes the field. (Fortunately, that's just about the only thing that embarrasses me about Duke, which gets so many things right.)

[Lavabe]

We've got some terrific players. We just need a coach.

At one point today, Duke was beating Navy, Navy played well vs. Ball St., and Ball St. had Nebraska on the ropes, prompting Bob Harris to opine jokingly that one could reason that Duke would play well against Nebraska.

Follow that logic?:rolleyes:

But seriously, Duke still has a coach, and after watching the last two games, Duke still stands a reasonable/fair/good chance of winning 3 (Ozzie) - 4+ games. I'd love to see them not abandon what makes them so potent in the first half.

This could be really cool.

Throw the ball!! Throw the ball!! Throw the damn ball!! GO DUKE!!

Thank you devildeac for bringing back that cheer today.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[mapei]

after watching the last two games, Duke still stands a reasonable/fair/good chance of winning 3 (Ozzie) - 4+ games.

Really? Has anyone ever heard a single voice not associated with Duke who says that? 4+???? More than half the remaining games?

Are you saying that one could get that impression after watching the last two games, but none of the 30 or so that preceded them?

A lot of questions, and all rhetorical, I guess. Please pass what you're drinking!

[Bluedawg]

Amen! The players simply made way too many mistakes at crucial times and THAT is what lost this game - NOT coaching. We simply have to find a decent kicker. And I can't remember a game with more 15 yard facemask penalties - what's up with that? Lewis was all-world in the first half and very average in the 2nd. He looked jittery to me - bad handoff to Boyette, tripping and losing yardage on first down on a key series in the 2nd half, and then that last interception! We may have been destined to lose this game today, but there is simply NO way we should have lost it in regulation. That last pick killed us. Not only did we not get a chance to even try a FG (yeah, yeah, I know it would've been dicey with our kickers), but it swung the momentum back to Navy. Even so, how we let them drive so far so fast is beyond me. In my book, the coaches had a good game plan (well, offensively at least). This one's on the players.

With 65 Penalty Yards compared to only 3 how can you always blame the kicker? Granted, missing 21 yard field goals is unacceptable, but the game did not fall on him. He didn't allow Navy to score 46 points.

[Bluedawg]

The really frustrating thing--well, one of many--is that if you look at UNC's troubles, Georgia Tech losing today to the Hoos, Wake struggling at home against Maryland, Notre Dame losing again (if you're gonna dream, dream big),I was convincing myself that a five, even six-win season was without the realm of the possible.

But I've said this before. Duke isn't good enough to blow people out and it's pretty darned tough to win close games with a dysfunctional place-kicking game.


Really? Has anyone ever heard a single voice not associated with Duke who says that? 4+???? More than half the remaining games?!

I still say at least 2 more wins and I'll go out on a limb and call for 3 more and add ND!

[Lavabe]

Really? Has anyone ever heard a single voice not associated with Duke who says that? 4+???? More than half the remaining games?

Are you saying that one could get that impression after watching the last two games, but none of the 30 or so that preceded them?

A lot of questions, and all rhetorical, I guess. Please pass what you're drinking!

As for voices not associated with Duke, sorry, but this media market doesn't pay any attention to Duke. We're dealing with Tech, UGA, and the Falcons here. THE FALCONS!!

As to "what impression": One could get that impression when your QB throws SICK numbers in the first half each of the last couple of games. As for the second halves, the kicking game, and the one yard runs ... no argument from me on those.

UNC & ND look like interesting games. Before that, perhaps Wake... which to me is a key statement game, as it's at home. That will leave a big impression.

That would make three more interesting games. There's still loads of time left in the season; an injury to a key player ruins all predictions. And we don't know how the team will respond to potential blowout games like Miami and VaTech. So yes, I could see loads of problems... perhaps as few as two wins, but Ozzie's prediction of 3 seems reasonable. 4 would be stretching it ... but possible.

As for the drinking, there wasn't any ... just a nice moment with my daughter today. She was playing lacrosse this morning. A couple come up to the sidelines and set up their tacky blue, emblazoned folding chairs. As my daughter came off the field, she turned to me and said, "Dad look at those!" And then she said:

EWWW!!!!

The only problem was that it wasn't loud enough for the Kerlina parents to hear. But I heard it! :D

Sorry, but I'm still on Cloud Nine!
Cheers,
Lavabe

[ChrisP]

With 65 Penalty Yards compared to only 3 how can you always blame the kicker? Granted, missing 21 yard field goals is unacceptable, but the game did not fall on him. He didn't allow Navy to score 46 points.

I hate when people read more into a post than is actually there. I mentioned several things in my original post that I felt cost us the game today. Dumb facemask penalties, Lewis' 2nd half "jitters", etc. With regard to the kicking game, all I said was "We simply have to find a decent kicker". The kicking duties were shared today, so I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but at this point in the season, it's pretty clear that neither guy is setting the world on fire. In making my comment about finding a decent kicker, I was actually referring to ALL the duties of the placekicker - including kick-offs where our usually short kicks generally result in good/great field position for the opponent.

The entire point of my original post was simply to express my view that the end result of today's game lay squarely on the players and not with the coaching staff. Dumb, untimely penalties, two turnovers deep in Navy territory, and an inability to stop Navy (according to the box score I saw, they didn't punt once today) were chief among the reasons we lost. Yeah, I think our kicking game stinks, but that's not the only reason we lost. A slight bit of "D" would have been nice...

[JasonEvans]

That last pick killed us. Not only did we not get a chance to even try a FG (yeah, yeah, I know it would've been dicey with our kickers), but it swung the momentum back to Navy.

Dicey?!?!?! I'd call that accessment of our kicking game very generous. I am mystified as to our inability to recruit or find via walk-ons someone who can placekick the ball with any degree of accuracy.

There is little question that we've given away mutiple games over the past 2 years as a result of our inability to kick field goals or even extra points. Damn!!

--Jason "question: which hurts Roof more, getting blown out by Navy or losing to them in a game we clearly coulda/shoulda won" Evans

[4decadedukie]

I attended the Navy game and offer the following ABBREVIATED report (it hurts too much to go into the details):

SUMMARY:
> Offense: Generally good, sometimes excellent -- the more aggressive the plays, the better the offense appeared to execute -- until the fourth quarter.
> Defense: Sometime excellent -- for example, we won the crucial "battle of the line" for 80+ percent of the game -- but a few serious weaknesses, especially against longer passes (we frequently had Navy's receiver in TIGHT single (and even double) coverage, but we did not appear to go for the ball, only for the player after the reception).
> Special teams/Kicking: Our kicking game was poor and, in my opinion, had it been even adequate we would have beaten Navy.

INTANGIBLES:
> Audaciousness: When we played aggressively we did particularly well; for example, after missing our first PAT, we were able to consecutively convert for two-point scores-after-touchdowns -- even when Navy's defense KNEW we would be attempting to do so.
> Sportsmanship: Both teams and fan-bases are "class acts."
> Officiating: Some key failures (at least from what I could see in the stratospheric zone), but fairly evenly distributed throughout the game and among the teams.
> Momentum: In general, we controlled the game during the first-half and much of the third quarter. For some reason, in the fourth quarter, we lost both offensive and defensive momentum. You could FEEL the shift and it clearly was the proximate cause of our final quarter breakdown and our loss.

OTHER OBSERVATIONS:
> The game was exciting, we had at least 150% the number of Dukies at the tailgate (which was really a nice event) and the game that normally attend, and -- at times, and especially on offense -- the team looks quite good.
> Unfortunately, we lost the winning, critical momentum we had in the first-half sometime in the third quarter, and especially in the final quarter.
> Perhaps the most important thing to note is how much this team has improved in comparison to the teams of the last five (or more) years. Yes, there are weaknesses (our kicking game is plain bad, for example); however, in aggregate this is a fair football team, certainly not one that will regularly beat the BCs, Va Techs, Miamis of the ACC and Division I, but one we should be quite proud of and -- more important -- one upon which a reasonable future can be founded.

[dukie8]

this whole saga reminds me of groundhog day. people were posting the exact same things last year and the team continues to lose close games that were very winnable.

[cspan37421]

Players play, coaches coach. I wish I could have seen the game but I followed the ticker on CBS. I could feel it slipping away - what a sick feeling! But one I'm used to.

Just a few uninformed comments that may have relevance. The penalty yards - 65 to 3? 3 is unusually small, but 65 does not seem to me to be unusually large. Isn't it average, or only slightly more? And if one or more was a facemask, that's not many penalties in terms of number. As for the 3, is that not "Navy gets all the calls!" ? Just kididng.

On the kicking game, I'm a bit torn. There was an interesting juxtaposition with ECU's kicker, who floundered early on yet had his teammates visibly pulling for him. He went on to kick a game-winner, I think, after missing 3 FGs. Our guy - no one comes near him after a miss. He is all alone. If the problem is psychological, and not mechanics, then our guys need to do what we can to support him. Failing that....

our coaches need to have open tryouts for kickers. Maybe there's a guy who nearly made it on the soccer team, but didn't make it, or decided to concentrate on academics instead (!). At some point it doesn't matter how good you are in practice if you're not connecting in the game. We need the best game-day kicker we can get, regardless of whether they're 2nd or 3rd best in practice. I also think that such open tryouts have a psychological benefit to the student body - this is YOUR football team, if you can do better, then come on down and prove it. Become part of the solution, quit whining. Get invested in the team.

I don't know the play calling etc. so can't comment. But putting up 43 was impressive. I'm very sorry the defense seemed to get tired out and gave up 14 in the 4th (not to mention that our offense sputtered in the 2nd half too). The only thing I could question, not having seen it, is that if our guys got tired out, why not put fresh bodies in there? You have to balance fatigued first teamers vs. fresh but less skilled 2nd and 3rd teamers. I've often wondered if K could do even better with a deeper rotation, and seeing the line on the Duke offense (0 pts in 4th q) and defense (14 pts given up in 4th q), I wonder if fresher legs might have helped.

We were competitive and could have won. Last week, same thing, but we did win. In time, if we can win half of the games we're this competitive in, then I think we're finally moving in the right direction. I am encouraged and I think we have a legit shot at a couple more games this year.

[Devilsfan]

don't some programs allow soccer players to also play football even though the seasons overlap? Don't we have a final four quality soccer team? How about helping the team (total athletics) and let a soccer player double as the place kicker for the football team, a potentially true revenue sport.

[ikiru36]

I do not wish to impugn an individual player. Struggling is a kind word for Surgan's performance these past two years but if his "struggles" can be resolved, I'm happy for him to be the solution.

Whether or not a solution can be found (and the walk-on did perfectly drill his extra point kicks yesterday), poor kicking for a team with Duke's little room for error is an absolute killer.

Our kicking woes these past two seasons have at least 3 less than salutory results on game day:

1) Poor field position increases the pressure on our defense on every drive;
2) Missed extra points and missed sub-30 yard field goals result in the loss(or complete swing) of momentum every time they occur (not to mention the lost points themselves which obviously make a difference in a close game);
3) Poor field goal kicking results in added pressure on the offense on every drive as points are never assured unless they get into the end zone. And on every drive, the opposing defenses can play accordingly as well.

The kicking game is not solely on the kicker/punter and last year Surgan may have lost some of his mojo having a number of kicks blocked due to poor protection. But watching yesterday's game and listening to the other games this year, protection has seemed to be relatively less of an issue. Also watching yesterday's game, while our return team seemed to do a pretty good job, even when we kicked/punted reasonably deeply, there was little hang-time resulting in superior returns by Navy on multiple occasions.

I hate to pile-on as regards the kicking game, especially when I offer no solutions besides the obvious and/or already stated. I bring this up more to support many of the rest of the team's efforts which have allowed them to be competitive in all 4 games this year (perhaps UConn least of all, but UConn is otherwise seeming to be a surprisingly decent team). A sub-standard kicking game is a HUGE deal in college football when it comes to winning games. I feel bad for the whole team around this, probably Surgan most of all as I have no reason to doubt his good intent or effort.

I couldn't be more proud of the football program's continued excellence in the classroom as well as their seeming continuing hard work and belief in themselves on the field despite nearly endless frustration as regards wins. This is a special group of young men and I've gotta give Roof some credit for that.

In any event, in any game where Duke has poor kicking they cannot reasonably be favored. There's that much impact and that little room for error. If they can solidify that aspect of their game, there are at least 3 more very winnable games this year.

You can do it, fellas (Joe S. too)!

P.S. I did get to see the entire game on the West Coast on big screen yesterday (wow, a nationally televised Duke Football game-CSTV, cool!). The officiating may have been decent on the whole but one of those 15 yard face mask penalties was a complete miss-call at a pretty key time. It's clear what they thought they saw but there was absolutely no grabbing of face mask at all on the play. Another 15 yarder should probably have been just a 5 yarder as at was both inadvertent and again looked more severe at first than replay showed it to be. These were not-unimportant calls in a tight game on the road, but that's simply gonna happen sometimes. Really, Duke played a relatively mistake-free game yesterday, especially for a road game, except for one very inopportune fumble and the final interception. Sadly, some of that interception I partially credit to the kicking game as well as Duke surely felt added pressure to move the ball well within the 20 yard line if they wanted to try a game winning field goal. Next play!

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DU82]

Players play, coaches coach. I wish I could have seen the game but I followed the ticker on CBS. I could feel it slipping away - what a sick feeling! But one I'm used to.

Just a few uninformed comments that may have relevance. The penalty yards - 65 to 3? 3 is unusually small, but 65 does not seem to me to be unusually large. Isn't it average, or only slightly more? And if one or more was a facemask, that's not many penalties in terms of number. As for the 3, is that not "Navy gets all the calls!" ? Just kididng.

On the kicking game, I'm a bit torn. There was an interesting juxtaposition with ECU's kicker, who floundered early on yet had his teammates visibly pulling for him. He went on to kick a game-winner, I think, after missing 3 FGs. Our guy - no one comes near him after a miss. He is all alone. If the problem is psychological, and not mechanics, then our guys need to do what we can to support him. Failing that....

our coaches need to have open tryouts for kickers. Maybe there's a guy who nearly made it on the soccer team, but didn't make it, or decided to concentrate on academics instead (!). At some point it doesn't matter how good you are in practice if you're not connecting in the game. We need the best game-day kicker we can get, regardless of whether they're 2nd or 3rd best in practice. I also think that such open tryouts have a psychological benefit to the student body - this is YOUR football team, if you can do better, then come on down and prove it. Become part of the solution, quit whining. Get invested in the team.

I don't know the play calling etc. so can't comment. But putting up 43 was impressive. I'm very sorry the defense seemed to get tired out and gave up 14 in the 4th (not to mention that our offense sputtered in the 2nd half too). The only thing I could question, not having seen it, is that if our guys got tired out, why not put fresh bodies in there? You have to balance fatigued first teamers vs. fresh but less skilled 2nd and 3rd teamers. I've often wondered if K could do even better with a deeper rotation, and seeing the line on the Duke offense (0 pts in 4th q) and defense (14 pts given up in 4th q), I wonder if fresher legs might have helped.

We were competitive and could have won. Last week, same thing, but we did win. In time, if we can win half of the games we're this competitive in, then I think we're finally moving in the right direction. I am encouraged and I think we have a legit shot at a couple more games this year.

The stats for some reason missed a penalty on Navy (ruffing the snapper, I'd never heard of that) on a extra point which added 15 yards to the kickoff (Surgan kicked it to the back of the end zone, no return.) Including this, Navy had 3 penalties in the first half for 23 yards, and only one in the second half for five, totaling 28 yards, instead of the listed 13. From TV, and the replays, I didn't see much "home team" reffing, especially since it was an ACC crew.

For those wondering why we didn't keep doing the same thing in the fourth quarter, we did, but Navy adjusted to it. The announcers, on the pick late in hte game, said the usual cliche about going to the well once too often. Smart teams WILL adjust, that's why teams need to mix things up.

I'm glad our running game did better, but it must do even more. Since we passeds so much, we were way behind in time of possession, about ten minutes. (90 plays for Navy, 62 for Duke.) That's extra time for the defense to be on the field, and it showed in the last two Navy drives. The announcers criticized Oghobaase for not being on the field during the last touchdown, but is a tired Oghobaase better than a rested backup? (the same point you brought up.) I don't know. Navy turned it around by putting in a rested reserve quarterback, who made many key plays down the stretch.

[devilirium]

Greg Myers, the other kicker,is actually on scholarship. He drilled two XP's but didn't get it done on a 31 yd FG--granted the kick was at an angle.

I don't think that Duke rewards Surgan a schollie after this year, because in essence you would have Paul Asack (next year's recruit) on schollie for FG's and Surgan for kickoffs. That's a waste of scholarship. I would submit that the staff would probably allow Joe to attend class next year and kick as a walkon. It's regrettable, but his kicking is a comedy of errors. There are going to be times when we can't throw for 6 TD's in a game. You have to be able to kick 3 pts and extra points to succeed in high school and college (no matter the level).

We may have gone to the well too often, but you could clearly see the Navy DB push off Riley and Ryan Wood on that INT. I can live with the hold on Riley--you could argue against us on that one, but that call at the goal line was close to being atrocious. Riley was asked if he had an opinion about both calls after the game and he responded thusly: "Yep".

[4decadedukie]

this whole saga reminds me of groundhog day. people were posting the exact same things last year and the team continues to lose close games that were very winnable.

I appreciate what you post suggests, and why; however, I have seen a minimum of three games annually for the last eight years, and I assure you that this team is truly a lot better than its immediate predecessors. I do not claim that it is a "good" team (I specifically called it "fair" in my post-Navy report), nor am I insinuating that it can compete, with routine successes, against major Division I football powers. Nevertheless, it is not "groundhog day" (to use your motion picture allusion).

[cspan37421]

Couple other thoughts - sadly, that will lead to me giving up my "Bobby Hurley" name after my post count is no longer 202....

If our kicker is nervous about kicking for Duke, can you imagine how nervous he might be had he attended Florida State or whereever else he was offered a scholarship? Wow. It isn't like we are expecting to compete for a national championship here, not in the short run, and that if he misses, our dreams go down in smoke and he's the goat on the cover of SI. For now, we just want a few wins! The downside to missing is not that bad, there's not much at stake, we're already near the bottom of the barrel in terms of our record.

"There are going to be times when we can't throw for 6 TD's in a game. "

Do you really think so? :-D
That was a great quote.

To me a reasonable medium-term goal would be for us to be able to compete with roughly peer institutions (Vandy, NW, Wake Forest, etc., and some public ivies like UNC and UVA, but not Texas or Michigan), winning about half the time. Normally I would also exclude ND from our football peers, but this year we have a chance.

[devildeac]

Not much to add to the already fairly friendly and constructive analysis thus far except reading the N&O today yielded the following comments from Roof.

Asked after the game if he had an opinion on the call(holding) and the no-call on Riley, Roof said, "Yep."
Asked if he'd comment on whether they were good calls, Roof said, "Nope."

Form your own conclusions, but it doesn't sound like our ACC crew subscribed to the 'Duke gets all the calls' magazine. We still should not have been in that position late in the game(insert usual comment here like, stupid holding penalties, stupid personal fouls. missed FG, etc). Navy had ZERO punts, meaning when they did not convert on 3rd down, which they did 12/19 times, they must have converted on 4th down. No big stops like last week by a very tired D. D@mn, we gave up 540 yards! On the bright side, when was the last time we gained over 500 yards and our rushing average did improve from about 1.8 yds/carry to 3 yds/carry. Jason will have to change his sig from last week which was "Boyle/Boyette for 1" to Boyle/Boyette for 3":D

[Jim3k]

P.S. I did get to see the entire game on the West Coast on big screen yesterday (wow, a nationally televised Duke Football game-CSTV, cool!). The officiating may have been ....

I tried to watch the CSTV streaming as well, but found its hanging to be very distracting. I had no ability to clearly see the ball, much less subtle stuff like penalties. On the fumble toward the end of the game it looked as if the Navy player just stole the ball from the runner (Boyle?). Later, I could see it was a bad handoff. My point is that it was not an acceptable video.

(Maybe it's because I use a DSL provider, rather than cable, but all three computers I used had problems. The best quality was from a MacBook configured to run Windows, but it had problems, too.)

[Wander]

Navy had ZERO punts, meaning when they did not convert on 3rd down, which they did 12/19 times, they must have converted on 4th down.

Um, what? How does Navy having zero punts mean they converted on 3rd or 4th down every time?

We stopped them on a 4th and 9 late in the game. Earlier in the game, they faked a punt, and we saw right through it and destroyed them. It was awesome.

[jimsumner]

Navy also had a turnover.

[7duke4]

I was at the game and the comments from Dukies around us while exiting were all about the kicking and the officiating. It was obviously an offense-dominated game for both teams, so the defense was not the differentiator. We thought that two key calls were the difference in the game - the hold on the touchdown run and the facemask. The latter was obviously wrong - and, since Navy shows a replay after every play, everyone saw that, including the teams. You could see the wind go out of the Duke players' sails. BTW, it appeared as if the officials had a conference after just about every Duke score, including extra points, before signalling the score. That was definitely unnerving.

[Bluedawg]

I attended the Navy game and offer the following ABBREVIATED report (it hurts too much to go into the details):

SUMMARY:
> Offense: Generally good, sometimes excellent -- the more aggressive the plays, the better the offense appeared to execute -- until the fourth quarter.
> Defense: Sometime excellent -- for example, we won the crucial "battle of the line" for 80+ percent of the game -- but a few serious weaknesses, especially against longer passes (we frequently had Navy's receiver in TIGHT single (and even double) coverage, but we did not appear to go for the ball, only for the player after the reception).
> Special teams/Kicking: Our kicking game was poor and, in my opinion, had it been even adequate we would have beaten Navy.

INTANGIBLES:
> Audaciousness: When we played aggressively we did particularly well; for example, after missing our first PAT, we were able to consecutively convert for two-point scores-after-touchdowns -- even when Navy's defense KNEW we would be attempting to do so.
> Sportsmanship: Both teams and fan-bases are "class acts."
> Officiating: Some key failures (at least from what I could see in the stratospheric zone), but fairly evenly distributed throughout the game and among the teams.
> Momentum: In general, we controlled the game during the first-half and much of the third quarter. For some reason, in the fourth quarter, we lost both offensive and defensive momentum. You could FEEL the shift and it clearly was the proximate cause of our final quarter breakdown and our loss.

OTHER OBSERVATIONS:
> The game was exciting, we had at least 150% the number of Dukies at the tailgate (which was really a nice event) and the game that normally attend, and -- at times, and especially on offense -- the team looks quite good.
> Unfortunately, we lost the winning, critical momentum we had in the first-half sometime in the third quarter, and especially in the final quarter.
> Perhaps the most important thing to note is how much this team has improved in comparison to the teams of the last five (or more) years. Yes, there are weaknesses (our kicking game is plain bad, for example); however, in aggregate this is a fair football team, certainly not one that will regularly beat the BCs, Va Techs, Miamis of the ACC and Division I, but one we should be quite proud of and -- more important -- one upon which a reasonable future can be founded.

You made a couple of comments about drop-offs in the 4th qtr. That sounds like a failure in conditioning to me. i have heard conversation about a lack of conditioning drills going on during practice. This may be the end result of that.

[Bluedawg]

don't some programs allow soccer players to also play football even though the seasons overlap? Don't we have a final four quality soccer team? How about helping the team (total athletics) and let a soccer player double as the place kicker for the football team, a potentially true revenue sport.

Alabama's kicker also plays soccer.

[-bdbd]

I live in the DC area and try to make at least one football game and b-ball game a year. I had to cancel late going to the Navy game this weekend, unfortunately, as that is a terrific venue and environment for a game, and listened to much of it on the Navy radio broadcast. (Disclaimer: 'did not hear/see most of the first half) But my initial reaction to the Navy Radio crew was, "Hey, they're ok, except for this one "homer" of an analyst they have on there who is just absurdly one-sided pro-Navy/anti-Duke." It was so over the top that I was certain even my Navy friends would be embarrassed if/when I told them after the game. Imagine my disappointment when I heard that the anti-Duke "homer" was none other than our own John Feinstein.

The remarks often bordered on "unprofessional" as he was obviously and loudly rooting against Duke (much more so than anyone else in the Navy radio booth!). EVERY call that went against Navy -- and I point out that the game total had Duke collecting significantly more penalties than Navy -- but every single anti-Navy call received JF derision and insults, such as "This is just an all ACC crew, so what do you expect..." I beleve he was the one who also made a "he's blind" comment about one ref and a "they should be embarrassed" general assessment of the reffing balance. And when a critical late call went against Duke, the best he could mount was "THAT one must've been just TOO obvious to ignore."

Some of it was almost childish, and obviously derived from his well-known disdain for our current AD (JA): On the last play of the game, when Navy kicked the winning field-goal, he couldn't resist pointing out that Duke's coaches "obviously failed" to call a T/O to ice the kicker -- I've personally heard coaches argue both ways on this strategy before -- and exclaimed loudly right after the play, "THANK YOU Duke coaches for giving us the game!" (or something very similar) [JF, who generally seems to disagree with any/all JA decisions, also disliked the Roof hire -- hence, the slam on Roof.]

I actually saw JF speak to the DCW alumni group several months back in DC. So I was aware for his obvious dislike of Alleva -- if I recall my Duke history, JF was on the committee that recommended someone else but was overridden by Nan in favor of, as John puts it, "Coach K's racquetball buddy." But isn't this just all a bit over the top? I mean, Stewart Scott himself couldn't do a more thorough job of thrashing everything Duke, and in such one-sided fashion (and that's saying a lot!).

When did John go off the cliff so thoroughly??

A very disappointed,

-BDBD :-(

[ikiru36]

I tried to watch the CSTV streaming as well, but found its hanging to be very distracting. I had no ability to clearly see the ball, much less subtle stuff like penalties. On the fumble toward the end of the game it looked as if the Navy player just stole the ball from the runner (Boyle?). Later, I could see it was a bad handoff. My point is that it was not an acceptable video.

(Maybe it's because I use a DSL provider, rather than cable, but all three computers I used had problems. The best quality was from a MacBook configured to run Windows, but it had problems, too.)

Jim3k,

I think I was perhaps fortunate in that my cable lineup actually includes CSTV as a TV station, so I was not watching it streaming but rather live, as in nationally televised! I've streamed other sources before for sports video with mixed results. I guess just be aware that if a game is available on CSTV online that may mean that it'll also be available somewhere nearby on cable (if CSTV is on DirectTV for instance, I'd imagine that most sports bars could receive it.)

I feel your pain trying to watch a game of interest over internet feed and this time I simply got lucky and was able to watch live Duke football, out here in the Bay Area! Sad at the eventual result, but there were a lot of positives to be gleaned.

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[throatybeard]

The really frustrating thing--well, one of many--is that if you look at UNC's troubles, Georgia Tech losing today to the Hoos, Wake struggling at home against Maryland, Notre Dame losing again (if you're gonna dream, dream big),I was convincing myself that a five, even six-win season was without the realm of the possible.

I think this season is going to end up like Franks' last full season, 2-10 that easily could have been 6-6. Or similar.

Anyway, it's easy to harp on the comical lack of a placekicking game, but I think one thing we learned on SAT was that it matters HOW you get your yards. Our D was tired because Navy's yards came ball-control, on the ground.

[4decadedukie]

You made a couple of comments about drop-offs in the 4th qtr. That sounds like a failure in conditioning to me. i have heard conversation about a lack of conditioning drills going on during practice. This may be the end result of that.

Perhaps; I simply do not know.

However, it was a VERY hot and humid afternoon. The Duke section was (as you'd expect for a road game) stratospheric, and I would guess the temperature there approached ninety degrees -- lots of reflected radiant energy, since the stadium is a steel-reinforced concrete structure. I would not be surprised if the field temperature was near 100 degrees and, obviously, there would be much less air movement/breeze at players' level.

[RelativeWays]

That loss felt like a punch in the gut. Still, Duke has improved since the UConn game. We were in the UVA game till the end, beat NW and should have beat Navy. This week its VT right? :(

[kexman]

If a soccer player can kick field goals it would be worth it, however, if he is on scholarship for soccer and played football the scholarship would count against the football team according to the NCAA. It is to stop the USC's and Miami's of the world to offer extra football scholarships via the wrestling or golf team.

I would think that of all of the positions that Duke football needs to recruit it would be easiest to recuit a kicker to Duke (ie. a losing program). Not sure why I think that, but that would be my impression.

[91devil]

Attended the game on Saturday, just returned home this AM. Haven't read all of the posts, so forgive me if I cover something that has been said before.

Re: John Feinstein. I listened to the Navy radio coverage from the stands, and agree with what 'bdbd' said in an earlier post. JF spent much of the game complaining about officials (ACC refs) and more than once saying, almost verbatim, 'well, you know Duke gets all of the calls'. He also made an inflammatory comment about the Asask Plagarism case, saying, again almost verbatim, 'see, even Duke kids plagarize...and the school actually did something about it'. He is on a pure witch hunt against us.

Re: Coaching. One thing that really bothered me was our disorganization on the last Navy series. After the Lewis interception (38 seconds left, ball on the Navy 30 or so), the ball was put in play (without a media timeout) fairly quickly. The Navy offense was in the huddle, broke for the line of scrimmage (play clock was running) and stopped because our defense was still huddled on the sideline. The Navy offense turned and looked at the Head Referee and he motioned as if to say 'go ahead, run the play, the clock is running'. With about 15 seconds on the play clock, our defense sprints on to the field, and was still lining up / setting up as the ball was snapped. We weren't ready at all for that play, and the Navy QB subsequently runs for 30 yards to put them in terrific shape.

How does the coaching staff fail to be aware of the 'live' game situation? Then, when we realize the ball is about to be snapped without our defense being ready, why didn't we call timeout (we had two left)? Its not as if we needed to save them. The defense was obviously gassed and then had to sprint to their positions so they could (almost) be ready for the snap of the ball. I don't doubt that disorganization contributed a little bit to that long run.

Thoughts?

[mapei]

Re Feinstein (who also hates Georgetown with an irrational passion), he just strikes me as someone who needs more love in his life or something. I hear/see him a lot in the DC media, and he is always sarcastic, whiny, and basically unhappy. And it does seem like he has turned on Duke for the last few years. He just doesn't seem like someone I would want to know. Gary Williams without the humility and sense of humor.

I even think that he's overrated as a writer, but I can't argue with his book sales.

[Indoor66]

Gary Williams without the humility and sense of humor

I must have missed something when watching Gary.

[throatybeard]

Attended the game on Saturday, just returned home this AM. Haven't read all of the posts, so forgive me if I cover something that has been said before.

Re: John Feinstein. I listened to the Navy radio coverage from the stands, and agree with what 'bdbd' said in an earlier post. JF spent much of the game complaining about officials (ACC refs) and more than once saying, almost verbatim, 'well, you know Duke gets all of the calls'. He also made an inflammatory comment about the Asask Plagarism case, saying, again almost verbatim, 'see, even Duke kids plagarize...and the school actually did something about it'. He is on a pure witch hunt against us.

Re: Coaching. One thing that really bothered me was our disorganization on the last Navy series. After the Lewis interception (38 seconds left, ball on the Navy 30 or so), the ball was put in play (without a media timeout) fairly quickly. The Navy offense was in the huddle, broke for the line of scrimmage (play clock was running) and stopped because our defense was still huddled on the sideline. The Navy offense turned and looked at the Head Referee and he motioned as if to say 'go ahead, run the play, the clock is running'. With about 15 seconds on the play clock, our defense sprints on to the field, and was still lining up / setting up as the ball was snapped. We weren't ready at all for that play, and the Navy QB subsequently runs for 30 yards to put them in terrific shape.

How does the coaching staff fail to be aware of the 'live' game situation? Then, when we realize the ball is about to be snapped without our defense being ready, why didn't we call timeout (we had two left)? Its not as if we needed to save them. The defense was obviously gassed and then had to sprint to their positions so they could (almost) be ready for the snap of the ball. I don't doubt that disorganization contributed a little bit to that long run.

Thoughts?

Wow, that takes me back to the NC State game in 2001. Phillip Rivers standing behind his center's butt amazed that there's no defense in front of him.

[Clipsfan]

Wow, that takes me back to the NC State game in 2001. Phillip Rivers standing behind his center's butt amazed that there's no defense in front of him.

I didn't see that game, did he at least take advantage of it and run a play?

This was the first football game I actually was able to see on TV here on the West Coast, so I haven't been paying much attention to the team. I thought it was fun watching Lewis throw some good balls (I only caught the second half, so the first one I saw was the only TD of the half and was a great throw). However, it looked like he lofted some wounded ducks as well. On the whole, he was a lot better than I thought he'd be and gave me hope for the future. I personally have nothing for/against Roof, so don't care whether people are calling for his head or not. However, when people talk about coaching vs. playing, I'm in the camp that when a team makes a lot of stupid penalties that is the fault of the coaches as well for not preparing them properly. Coaching goes beyond just calling the right plays and includes getting rid of stupid penalties/turnovers. I also think that it was stupid to not call a timeout after the last turnover, especially given that the team wasn't ready to play D. However, I had a lot of fun watching the game, something I didn't think I'd say about a Duke football game.

[throatybeard]

Clips, State looked so shocked by our idiocy that they didn't score on the play. They sort of halfway waited for us to get our bodies halfway on the field. IIRC, Rivers threw a pass to a guy who was knocked out at the 3 or so. Scrimmage was about our 20.

[mapei]

I must have missed something when watching Gary.

Irony, my friend. Irony.