MBB: Duke 73, Wake Forest 65 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[MarkD83]

Any ACC road win is a good win even if it was a bit ugly.

[_Gary]

Just glad Coach K had Matt playing at the end. I knew his offense would come through for us. :D

[DukieInBrasil]

Wake got us to play ugly.
I'm guessing that Okafor will get a lesson about not being so cavalier withe ball.
Winslow stepped up big when nothing else was really happening.

[FerryFor50]

Ugly, uninspired effort. And Duke still won by 8.

Best effort came with 3 min remaining.

Matt Jones and Tyus Jones came up huge at the end.

Jahlil had a quiet game, but still had a double double. Manning had a good game plan to defend him.

Winslow was the best player for Duke tonight, but started to make some bad decisions down the stretch (lazy passes, heat check shots). Guess it's contagious.

Devin Thomas is a great player but has some really annoying body language.

[bbosbbos]

A good game to tell our freshmen that experience matters. But the talent difference is too huge. Good game. Very luckily we won.

An observation, when JO was defending Thomas in the 2nd half, all of our guards were watching and did not help.

[dukelifer]

Clearly not Duke's best game but you have to like the way they fought and dealt with the game pressure. Good patience and clutch shooting. The Texas kids did well. This game just shows that the ACC is tough on the road.

[OldSchool]

I'd like to see us burn an aggressive, over-playing team with some well-timed back cuts but that's a lot to ask of a team that starts three freshmen.

[NSDukeFan]

Great poise and execution down the stretch.

[bbosbbos]

Our freshmen were shocked by the intensity of acc road game a little.


Wake got us to play ugly.
I'm guessing that Okafor will get a lesson about not being so cavalier withe ball.
Winslow stepped up big when nothing else was really happening.

[Saratoga2]

I didn't watch this one but followed it on game tracker. I will be interested in the commentary from those who were able to watch it. Road games are never easy and this one could have gotten away but for a few good minutes at the end and the foul shooting of Quinn.

We had more turnovers than Wake, Jahlil's scoring was held in check to some degree although he rebounded well. Our shooting appeared to be off almost as if some of the guys were intimidated and yet we won. Keeps the string going and we got some much needed end of game experience at closing well.

[Kfanarmy]

My connection was up and down, so missed the best part of the game...last 5 or so. Wake played Louisville really tight right to the final 5 or so to as I remember. That team is going to get better and better, and beat someone they aren't supposed to pretty soon.

Guys looked a bit lethargic out there...not sure why. A lot of bumping around the rim, down low, and Wake was pretty aware of JOs passing lanes. Good D, Duke was standing around a bit expecting JO to do something magical I thought. When he's getting worked like that, they need to move more and be ready for the pass. Tough gritty effort in the end apparently. Wish I could have seen it.

BTW wouldn't you expect manning to come up with a D against the big man?

[BlueandWhite]

Wake got us to play ugly.
I'm guessing that Okafor will get a lesson about not being so cavalier withe ball.
Winslow stepped up big when nothing else was really happening.

Summary of game
Thomas outplayed Okafor
Wake's effort > Duke, esp. on defense, but the more talented offensive team won
Duke's guards had a below average game for them
Nice end of game for Matt J, let's see more of that

[Zeb]

When things looked a little bleak in the second half, I consoled myself by thinking "if we lose, hopefully this will get the team's attention and they will learn a lot from this."

Good news is we're still undefeated and that learning can still happen.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Devin Thomas is a great player but has some really annoying body language.

Thomas channeled his inner Rasheed Wallace tonight. He played great but acted foolish.

As for Duke, I think Okafor and Tyus were taken aback by the intensity of an ACC road game but came to life in the end.

Overall though, a game where Duke struggles yet still wins by three possessions on the road is a good sign by me.

[Brockt10]

Ugly, uninspired effort. And Duke still won by 8.

Best effort came with 3 min remaining.

Matt Jones and Tyus Jones came up huge at the end.

Jahlil had a quiet game, but still had a double double. Manning had a good game plan to defend him.

Winslow was the best player for Duke tonight, but started to make some bad decisions down the stretch (lazy passes, heat check shots). Guess it's contagious.

Devin Thomas is a great player but has some really annoying body language.

This sums up the game perfectly. Worst game off the year.

Since exam break they seem to be regressing with every game and every game I tell myself they will get it back next game.

[Philadukie]

Interesting watching Thomas take it to us. He played for a local high school where I'm from (CDEast in Harrisburg, PA if anyone knows the area). He was in the Patriot News all the time. Best prospect from Central PA since maybe Quincey Roberts who played at St.John's. But as good as Thomas was locally, I think he was still only a two or three star recruit. I wondered how he would fair in the ACC against elite competition. Turns out pretty well. Of course, he has the benefit of not being double and triple teamed every time he touches the ball, unlike Okafor. Something to remember when comparing their performances tonight.

Glad to see a toughness at the end when things could have gone the other way for us.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

I am hoping this was just ACC road jitters. I'll take the W but hope our boys learn from it and play with some intensity against State.

Side note (because, with this team, this is a legitimate complaint :D): Am I the only one sad to see our 10+ point winning streak end?

[FerryFor50]

Interesting watching Thomas take it to us. He played for a local high school where I'm from (CDEast in Harrisburg, PA if anyone knows the area). He was in the Patriot News all the time. Best prospect from Central PA since maybe Quincey Roberts who played at St.John's. But as good as Thomas was locally, I think he was still only a two or three star recruit. I wondered how he would fair in the ACC against elite competition. Turns out pretty well. Of course, he has the benefit of not being double and triple teamed every time he touches the ball, unlike Okafor. Something to remember when comparing they're performances tonight.

True, but he hit some tough, D1 level shots. And one on one, he took it to Okafor.

Also, Thomas lit up L'ville for 30 and 11. He's legit.

[DukeDevil]

To start: It's nice to see Wake play as a team and with intensity again, after the drought of effort and chemistry that was Bzdelik. Thomas played really well, but he seriously needs to watch his attitude and body language or he'll get with with a Tech soon. You could clearly see him mouthing "WHERE'S THE FOUL" after every shot attempt on his part (make or miss). I strongly feel that a good ACC start with a good Tobacco road, so it's nice to see Wake showing signs of life.

As for Duke:
It's weird to see Okafor frustrated and off his game, not sure I've ever seen that before. I agreed with the commentary that he needed to be in motion more in the post, as that gave him his best looks. He picked that up at the end. His frustration leaked into his free throw shooting, as his form seemed off again, and he shot exactly 50% if I'm not mistaken. I also agreed that he got burned with a few lazy/casual efforts handling the ball, and I'm sure the coaching staff will drill that into him.

The bench brought some much needed intensity, especially Rasheed (it's hard for me to consider him a bench player...). Matt also had a good defensive effort, and was clutch at the end.

If the team played defense all game as they did the last 3 minutes, this is a blowout.

[FerryFor50]

Side note (because, with this team, this is a legitimate complaint :D): Am I the only one sad to see our 10+ point winning streak end?

#firstworldproblems :cool:

[UrinalCake]

The Wisconsin game kind of spoiled us as fans to remembering how difficult it is to win on the road. The team really gutted out a win. Winslow especially came through with some big plays.

Okafor seems really slow and deliberate with the ball, which works great when he's defended one on one as it gives his time to read his defender, but when the double teams come I feel like he needs to make his move more quickly. This game should be a good learning experience for him moving forward.

[Philadukie]

True, but he hit some tough, D1 level shots. And one on one, he took it to Okafor.

Also, Thomas lit up L'ville for 30 and 11. He's legit.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting he isn't. But how many times did Okafor have just Thomas 1 on 1? I can't think of any.

[DukeDevil]

Side note (because, with this team, this is a legitimate complaint :D): Am I the only one sad to see our 10+ point winning streak end?

Not gonna lie...when I realized wake wasn't going to foul us again I was frustrated. I've never wanted another team to drag out a game before...but I really wanted to those 2 more points. The salt in the wound was the ESPN banner right after saying "first win by less than 10 points this season."

[dukebluesincebirth]

Phew, that was a little painful to watch. I guess my best description of Duke's effort is plodding. Lethargic. Not sure why. Flu bug going around the team? No energy. Devin Thomas played over his head, but I really didn't think wake played that well either. An effort like that at UVA/unc could easily be a loss. Will be interested to hear what K has to say.

[Duke95]

Conference games are a wake-up call. Look at the scores. Favorites are squeaking by or losing. Kansas by 1. L-ville by 6 over Clemson. We win by 8. UMd loses.

Conference games aren't easy, especially on the road. Glad we got this one.

[Kjeffrey]

Did anyone catch Tim Brando's comment about Jabari Parker? Did he really say that "Okafor, unlike Parker, really wants to improve and enjoy his collegiate experience?"

[Billy Dat]

Great poise and execution down the stretch.

You are exactly right and it makes it one of the more bizarre wins I can remember. We played pretty badly for 35 minutes and then, right when we had given up the lead for the first time since the early minutes, we executed flawlessly in the final 5 minutes to knock them out. The fact that Wake stayed with us by turning us over and getting transition buckets was also contrasted by our ability to execute in the final 5 while completely taking the air out of the ball and using the clock. That final 5 looked like this...down 1, Quinn gets a lay-up +1, Quinn gets a steal on the other end, Tyus hits Matt for a lay-up, Jah nails a free throw then blocks a shot, Matt with a huge 3, Wake miss then Tyus lay-up +1, a Wake bucket then a Quinn bucket, then Quinn goes 4-4 from the line down the stretch. Quinn had 9 in the final 5 minutes. Had we played the rest of the game like we played the final 9, we'd have killed them.

This was a classic "let them stay in the game" game where too many turnovers led to too many transition baskets. We had multiple chances to push 9 point leads to double digits and we never got it done. The did a good job overplaying the passing lanes when we didn't expect them to, especially on the extended wings far from the basket. They ran at every opportunity and Devin Thomas killed us. We couldn't really get Jah the ball and resorted to a lot of 1 on 1 throughout the game, save for that final 5 when nearly every bucket was assisted. Wake's half court offense is weak, and they couldn't hit an outside shot for most of the game, until those started to fall with about 10 minutes left...until the final 5 minutes when they missed a few decent looks from 3.

Justise carried us for a lot of the game, as did Rasheed. K went with Rasheed over Amile for most of the second half, but then he went with some crazy gut feeling going with Matt Jones down the stretch and it paid off. Nothing Matt did prior to that stretch made it seem like he was ready to step up.

Just a very very odd win. I think Wake fans should be happy with Manning, that team was playing hard and looking to pressure and run, a fun style for fans to watch.

[Dukehky]

Jahlil does not play tough man to man defense when he is 1 on 1 because he is concerned about getting into foul trouble. I am totally fine with giving Devin Thomas a big night because our offense with Okafor on the floor is worth more than that. Every time Thomas yelled, "he can't guard me! or It's too easy" I found myself yelling at the television that he isn't trying to stop you!!!

Tyus and Winslow, more than anyone else on the team (insert expletive because the next word isn't enough by itself) HATE to lose. If there is a win to be snatched, I am fully confident that those two, coupled with Amile and Quinn's timely defense and scoring will get us there. Jahlil gets us near the end, and the rest of the starting five explodes through the finish line.

I would like Wake if they didn't have those stupid tie dye shirts and techno music.

[freshmanjs]

Did anyone catch Tim Brando's comment about Jabari Parker? Did he really say that "Okafor, unlike Parker, really wants to improve and enjoy his collegiate experience?"

no, he didn't.

[Billy Dat]

Did anyone catch Tim Brando's comment about Jabari Parker? Did he really say that "Okafor, unlike Parker, really wants to improve and enjoy his collegiate experience?"

I think he said "like Parker"

[Kedsy]

Did anyone catch Tim Brando's comment about Jabari Parker? Did he really say that "Okafor, unlike Parker, really wants to improve and enjoy his collegiate experience?"

I'm pretty sure he said "like Jabari Parker," NOT "unlike."


Phew, that was a little painful to watch. I guess my best description of Duke's effort is plodding. Lethargic. Not sure why. Flu bug going around the team? No energy. Devin Thomas played over his head, but I really didn't think wake played that well either. An effort like that at UVA/unc could easily be a loss. Will be interested to hear what K has to say.

Are we really complaining about 8 point ACC road wins now?

[Wander]

#1 Kentucky, #3 UVA, and #4 Wisconsin all just had bad games against vastly inferior teams at home. It happens.

[Kjeffrey]

no, he didn't.

Did he you hear what he was saying? He was talking about this team's chemistry and how they enjoy being together off the court. Then he made a comment about Okafor compared to Parker. It certainly sounded like he said "unlike Jabari Parker, Okafor really wants to improve (or get better) and enjoy the collegiate experience." I think Brando is usually a pretty good announcer so I was a little surprised. I am asking because it is possible I misheard it.

Thanks to Kedsy and others for clarifying. Glad I misheard that.

[freshmanjs]

Did he you hear what he was saying? He was talking about this team's chemistry and how they enjoy being together off the court. Then he made a comment about Okafor compared to Parker. It certainly sounded like he said "unlike Jabari Parker, Okafor really wants to improve (or get better) and enjoy the collegiate experience." I think Brando is usually a pretty good announcer so I was a little surprised. I am asking because it is possible I misheard it.

you misheard it. he said "like jabari parker." it was a compliment to both players.

[pfrduke]

#1 Kentucky, #3 UVA, and #4 Wisconsin all just had bad games against vastly inferior teams at home. It happens.

This seems as good a time as any to trot out the 5 / 20 / 5 theory.* Some coach, I honestly can't remember who, has said that you play 5 games a year where everything clicks and you look great, 5 games a year where things don't click and you look bad, and then the remaining 20 games is who you really are. I'm always happy to have 8-pt ACC road wins end up in that bottom 5 bucket.




*I do not in any way believe that this is a real thing, but it gives me comfort in days when we look a little off.

[Duvall]

#1 Kentucky, #3 UVA, and #4 Wisconsin all just had bad games against vastly inferior teams at home. It happens.

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake. But as you say, those games were at home.

[Furniture]

It wasn't a great performance in many ways and a bit frustrating to watch but I think you have to give Wake some credit plus as many have said this was a new situation for our freshmen. They will learn a lot. Bottom line, I seem to remember a similar situation last year in Winston Salem but this years team won!

[Henderson]

True, but he hit some tough, D1 level shots. And one on one, he took it to Okafor.

Also, Thomas lit up L'ville for 30 and 11. He's legit.

He's certainly roared to life in these past two games. But he has this way of just disappearing sometimes. Like 0 points on 0-7 shooting in 28 minutes against Delaware State. And 4 pts. vs. Minnesota. Which is why he only averages 12 ppg. I look forward to his matching up with Johnson and Meeks. Let's hope "our" version shows up. Dude is a junior and not on any mock draft boards I've seen, so we'll get another year of watching his (ahem) "enthusiasm". Unless he destroys ACC competition here on out and decides he'd rather look for a paying job.

Very impressive tonight on both ends of the court. Glad that one's behind us.

[fgb]

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake.

part of what made this game so frustrating to watch, was knowing that wake had already lost seven games. at first i thought, wow, how many cupcakes did they lose to? then i thought, oh, they were the cupcake.

[jv001]

Wonder if Wake gives this kind of effort against GT this weekend. I say no and they'll drift back into uninspired play. GoDuke!

[mo.st.dukie]

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake. But as you say, those games were at home.

If they played every game like they did tonight against Duke they'd easily be a top 50 team. But like so many other mediocre teams with good individual talent they can get themselves mentally ready and focused to play Duke and Louisville with a packed house but are apathetic when it comes to playing Iona and Delaware St.

If Duke protects the ball better and finishes strong around the rim they win by 20. It was a combination of Duke playing poorly, well below who they really are, and Wake playing at a level much higher than they really are.

[fgb]

He's certainly roared to life in these past two games. But he has this way of just disappearing sometimes. Like 0 points on 0-7 shooting in 28 minutes against Delaware State. And 4 pts. vs. Minnesota. Which is why he only averages 12 ppg. I look forward to his matching up with Johnson and Meeks. Let's hope "our" version shows up. Dude is a junior and not on any mock draft boards I've seen, so we'll get another year of watching his (ahem) "enthusiasm". Unless he destroys ACC competition here on out and decides he'd rather look for a paying job.

Very impressive tonight on both ends of the court. Glad that one's behind us.

kid can play, but he is a clown.

[Billy Dat]

It wasn't a great performance in many ways and a bit frustrating to watch but I think you have to give Wake some credit plus as many have said this was a new situation for our freshmen. They will learn a lot. Bottom line, I seem to remember a similar situation last year in Winston Salem but this years team won!

No doubt...last year at Wake, the roof basically caved in with 5 left. This year, that's when we played our best ball and we went on the double digit run. DukeBluePlanet tweeted out the following from K post game address to the team, "We refused to lose. The was the best part. We were strongest at the end. Winning is never easy".

I also see that the number of 3s we are hitting per game has jumped up to the 8-9 level over the past 3 games, up from 5-6, I like that trend, we'll need that shooting.

[Henderson]

P.S. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a couple of our guys were under the weather tonight. Okafor and T. Jones both looked like they were playing on Sudafed.

[freshmanjs]

P.S. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a couple of our guys were under the weather tonight. Okafor and T. Jones both looked like they were playing on Sudafed.

it's like clockwork. whenever we have a game perceived as sub-par, the posts about illness start coming.

[jv001]

P.S. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a couple of our guys were under the weather tonight. Okafor and T. Jones both looked like they were playing on Sudafed.

I thought the same thing about other Duke players when they were throwing the ball to Wake, lol. Good to see them focused the last 5 minutes. GoDuke!

[Furniture]

kid can play, but he is a clown.

Well he definitely got into our kids heads and we could have lost....We just have to learn to dish some of it back...

[Billy Dat]

I feel like Quinn's and 1 to grab the lead back with 5 to play, a lead we never gave back, was as big as Matt's 3.

9 of his 12 points came in the final 5 minutes.

[OldSchool]

it's like clockwork. whenever we have a game perceived as sub-par, the posts about illness start coming.

I was watching in high def. In addition to Jah and Tyus, it looked to me that Amile had an elevated temperature, Quinn was nursing a hangnail and Marshall was suffering from foot odor.

[FerryFor50]

Well he definitely got into our kids heads and we could have lost....We just have to learn to dish some of it back...

Actually I thought Winslow *did* dish some of it back. He got fired up and started woofing, too.

[roywhite]

I feel like Quinn's and 1 to grab the lead back with 5 to play, a lead we never gave back, was as big as Matt's 3.

9 of his 12 points came in the final 5 minutes.

And a really pretty drive and 1 by Tyus, too.

For late game situations, gotta like having two guards like Tyus and Quinn, who can handle, pass, drive, and hit their free throws.

[mr. synellinden]

It went unnoticed by the announcers I think and I haven't seen anyone here mention it, but I thought a key point in the game was how quickly Tyus jumped in and kept Justise from getting a T with about 8 minutes left n the second half following a steal on an inbounds pass and a basket by Justise plus the foul. Winslow started to get in the face of the Wake player that fouled him and Tyus stepped in almost before it happened - like he knew Winslow so well that he sensed it was coming. If Tyus isn't there and doesn't react so instinctively, Winslow gets a technical with Wake getting shots and the ball.

[azzefkram]

Not a pretty game, but a win. I am really happy they closed it out. I'm not sure last year's team would have done that. It's kinda cool that Jah can put up a double-double in Clark Kent mode. Glad K went with Matt when he did... Sheed was getting a little "hero-y." Justise isn't as steady as Jah and Tyus, but can he go into beast mode.

[UrinalCake]

No doubt...last year at Wake, the roof basically caved in with 5 left. This year, that's when we played our best ball and we went on the double digit run. DukeBluePlanet tweeted out the following from K post game address to the team, "We refused to lose. The was the best part. We were strongest at the end. Winning is never easy".

I think the turning point of the game was when Justice fouled the guy on a breakaway to prevent a dunk. As the announcer said, if McIntire makes that dunk then the crowd goes nuts, the lead goes to I think 4, and they carry all the momentum down the stretch. Last year's team would have given up that dunk. Instead, we have Winslow to chase the guy down and force him into a one and one, where he made 1-2. Their lead stays at a manageable level and we're able to regroup and recapture the momentum down the stretch.

[Billy Dat]

It went unnoticed by the announcers I think and I haven't seen anyone here mention it, but I thought a key point in the game was how quickly Tyus jumped in and kept Justise from getting a T late in the second half following a steal on an inbounds pass and a basket by Justise plus the foul. Winslow started to get in the face of the Wake player that fouled him and Tyus stepped in almost before it happened - like he knew Winslow so well that he sensed it was coming. If Tyus isn't there and doesn't react so instinctively, Winslow gets a momentum killing technical with Wake getting shots and the ball.

I did notice that, and it pleased me, but I am not sure it mattered because, at the time, all 3 refs were trying to extricate themselves from a Devin Thomas-administered triple headlock...I have never seen anything like it.

[FerryFor50]

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake. But as you say, those games were at home.

Yeah, but is Clemson better than Wake? They also put a scare into Louisville at home.

[Billy Dat]

I think the turning point of the game was when Justice fouled the guy on a breakaway to prevent a dunk. As the announcer said, if McIntire makes that dunk then the crowd goes nuts, the lead goes to I think 4, and they carry all the momentum down the stretch. Last year's team would have given up that dunk. Instead, we have Winslow to chase the guy down and force him into a one and one, where he made 1-2. Their lead stays at a manageable level and we're able to regroup and recapture the momentum down the stretch.

Good call, that was a big sequence. Plus, Wake only went 1-2 on those FTs and, after misses both ways, Quinn got that and 1 and we never trailed again. Very big play by Justise (who also knocked down 3 treys and collected 7 boards and 2 blocks). That was his only foul of the game.

[OldSchool]

I did notice that, and it pleased me, but I am not sure it mattered because, at the time, all 3 refs were trying to extricate themselves from a Devin Thomas-administered triple headlock...I have never seen anything like it.

Tyus is remarkably composed. He has a calm demeanor but he seems very focused and aware of what's going on on court. It looked to me like he was also trying to get Justise to tone down the woofing when Tyus was at the line later in the game.

I think I did see a similar triple headlock once in a Three Stooges episode.

[MaxAMillion]

I think people's expectations are a little out of wack if inconsistent performances are not expected. You have three freshman starters and a fourth underclassmen in the top eight That is a recipe for up and down play. I just hope the team can play their best basketball in March. I am really not troubled by some of the losses and that are sure to come.

[BigWayne]

In the long run, this game should help us a lot. There are a lot of coachable moments on the game film that I am sure will be showing up on players Ipads very soon.

[AncientPsychicT]

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake.

Are (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400588677) they (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587847) really? (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400589239)

[brevity]

it's like clockwork. whenever we have a game perceived as sub-par, the posts about illness start coming.


I was watching in high def. In addition to Jah and Tyus, it looked to me that Amile had an elevated temperature, Quinn was nursing a hangnail and Marshall was suffering from foot odor.

That's nothing. I once watched a Carolina non-conference game in HD and got a rash.

[dukelifer]

It went unnoticed by the announcers I think and I haven't seen anyone here mention it, but I thought a key point in the game was how quickly Tyus jumped in and kept Justise from getting a T with about 8 minutes left n the second half following a steal on an inbounds pass and a basket by Justise plus the foul. Winslow started to get in the face of the Wake player that fouled him and Tyus stepped in almost before it happened - like he knew Winslow so well that he sensed it was coming. If Tyus isn't there and doesn't react so instinctively, Winslow gets a technical with Wake getting shots and the ball.

Danny Manning sure noticed and was screaming for a T. But Winslow did not say a word- just a big time stare. Still Jones did a good job keeping it from escalating. It should be noted that Wake went on a mini run right after that play- no doubt a reaction.

[Duvall]

Are (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400588677) they (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587847) really? (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400589239)

Yes (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587830) really. (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587806)

[OldPhiKap]

That's nothing. I once watched a Carolina non-conference game in HD and got a rash.

Watching Carolima gives me the heebie jeebies.

Wake is playing solid ball and Thomas is legit. This was a good win for a team that starts three freshmen.

And gives Coach some film to show them.

ACC will be a fun ride this year, wins and losses. Enjoy the ride.

[wsb3]

Phew, that was a little painful to watch. I guess my best description of Duke's effort is plodding. Lethargic. Not sure why. Flu bug going around the team? No energy. Devin Thomas played over his head, but I really didn't think wake played that well either. An effort like that at UVA/unc could easily be a loss. Will be interested to hear what K has to say.

I said to my wife last night that they were so lethargic & soft with the ball it seemed like the team had all been stricken by the flu.

But when all the momentum was going Wake's way and they went ahead. They sure did settle down and play. Matt Jones, I thought had the biggest points of the night.

[lotusland]

I was watching in high def. In addition to Jah and Tyus, it looked to me that Amile had an elevated temperature, Quinn was nursing a hangnail and Marshall was suffering from foot odor.

My HD Smart TV picked up the foot odor and diagnosed the cause - dirty socks. MP3 refused to wash his lucky game socks until we win by less than 10.

[bob blue devil]

i saw a wake team get up for a big time opponent in front of its home crowd; as the saying goes, duke gets everyone's best shot and that saying looked true last night. wake is not a good team, but they played pretty well last night. meanwhile, we didn't have our best game, but were good enough to win and look like the better team.

tyus jones continues to amaze me on offense - his ability to make big plays after having spent large swaths of the game deferring to our other offensive weapons is an incredible asset. no rhythm necessary, he's just a cold blooded assassin whenever we need one.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

it's like clockwork. whenever we have a game perceived as sub-par, the posts about illness start coming.

At least we seem to have our nutrition dialed in

[Saratoga2]

I was only able to follow on Game Tracker and have read enough of this string to realize that the Wake approach was to make it extremely difficult for Jahlil to operate inside. That defensive approach shouldn't be a surprise since Jahlil had been scoring roughly 25 of our 85 points. He was doubled and bumped throughout, but is so talented he still wound up with a double double. Jahlil does have to realize he needs to quickly find the open man and avoid turnovers, but also his teammates have grown to see him as the primary weapon and also have to learn to adjust.

Add to that the fact that Emile doesn't necessarily look for his offense and that left the bulk of the scoring to the Justise and the guards. The hostile environment might have impacted the shooting as Quinn was 1/8 before hitting at the end. Justise kept things going along with Rasheed. Fortunately we were determined and had a nice few minutes at the end.

I think we can expect a similar defense against us going forward and some of our opponents will be more effective offensively than Wake. The team does need to adjust their strategy to have alternative scoring approaches going forward.

[jv001]

I don't believe last years squad would have pulled this one out down the stretch. It's good to see that our senior guard come through like he did in the last minutes. Quinn was great in the those last moments. Justise was huge throughout with 20 pts, 7 boards, 3 assists, 1 turnover and 1 blocked shot. I thought Rasheed played well. He had 10 points., 4 rebs, 2 assists. He also played good defense. Oakfor did not have his usual game and I thought that came from not moving in the low post. He seemed to settle and try to do it with just his natural ability(which is great). I think he could have worked harder. I kept waiting for Amile, Justise or one of our wings to break down the lane for a pass from Okafor, but I didn't see much of it last night. I think that play was open if we had taken it. But again, I'm not a HOF coach. Heck, I'm not even a coach. Now let's get ready to beat State in Raleigh. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

It went unnoticed by the announcers I think and I haven't seen anyone here mention it, but I thought a key point in the game was how quickly Tyus jumped in and kept Justise from getting a T with about 8 minutes left n the second half following a steal on an inbounds pass and a basket by Justise plus the foul. Winslow started to get in the face of the Wake player that fouled him and Tyus stepped in almost before it happened - like he knew Winslow so well that he sensed it was coming. If Tyus isn't there and doesn't react so instinctively, Winslow gets a technical with Wake getting shots and the ball.

I'm surprised the acc refs didn't give him a T for thinking about woofing:rolleyes:.

[gocanes0506]

I thought it was good the team gutted it out. Great lessons for the underclassmen and great to see that the team can do that.

My biggest take is we have to develop a couple of sets to handle a strong double team on the Big Oak.

Manning did a great job on teaching his post men leverage and positioning. They kept JO from posting too close to the basket most of the night. They also did a very good job of having the initial defender slide down and shutting off moves towards the baseline. JO was forced to move to the inside with ball and the double team quickly came when that occured.

AJ needs to start lower along the baseline to allow for a easy pass for a layup; similar to combating a zone D. His current high post position is fine for setting screens but he is still hesistant to take the 10-14 foot shot; leaving him useless for punishing the D for shadowing JO.

I dont know that another coach would be able to teach the technique as well as Manning did but, the blueprint is there for shutting him down. Other Ds had tried this same technique but none were as good as Wake at not allowing JO to post up low and keep him from making a post move to the short side/base line side.

[flyingdutchdevil]

All ACC road games are tough. Last night was no exception. Wake clearly wanted it more, but we are just sooooo much more talented than them. Talent beat out heart. I must say that I really like how we have so many players who can take over a game: Cook, Oak, T Jones, Sulaimon (historically), and Winslow (as evidenced last night).

I thought Winslow and Sulaimon played extremely well. Sulaimon doesn't get enough credit for being a super-sixth game, and last night he was a revelation. He and Winslow carried the team on their back.

I don't think that Jefferson, M Jones, or Cook had good offensive games. Jefferson has lost all confidence in his mid-range and opponents have given him 10+ feet with that shot. M Jones needs to take it much stronger to the hoop. He is a better finisher than Sulaimon at driving when he doesn't get blocked or get his shot completely altered, which is happening more and more. Cook just had an off-night with his 3. But I want him to continue shooting the three as much as possible.

I am very, very happy that the Oak had a poor game. Not because I don't like the dude; au contraire, mon frere. But the Oak has been very cavalier with the ball at times, and last night was no exception. Also, when the Oak tries to seal his man, he always gets the ball in good position. But the Oak doesn't always put 100% effort into sealing his man, and when he didn't, if often led to a turnover. I can't fault the big dude - he's been playing against players and coaches who didn't do a good job of applying insane pressure on the Oak. Last night completely changed that.

I'll take the win, but I'll take the learning lessons even more so.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

I for one want more woofing, and more emotion out of Justice. He is the one guy on our team who is so physically dominate that he can just scare people. I want him to Dunk on people and stare them down afterwards. Then watch the opponent as they slowly drop their heads in shame. This may just be me, but we are always the team getting show boated against, and opposing players are always so demonstrative when playing us. I think its about time we had a player like Winslow who can throw it down and say awesome things like:

"Get your popcorn ready Im putting on a show"


"Want me to sign that for you" as he hands the player he just dunked on the ball.


Or Justice dunks on a 6ft guard, and someone in the stands yells out "dunk on somebody your own size" So Justice comes right back and Dunks on a 7footer and looks in the stands and says "Is that big enough?"

You get the idea, Justice be that guy for us.

Feel free to add more wonderful trash talking things for Justice to say, maybe he will give DBR a shout out!!

:cool:

[Mike Corey]

We had lost 4 of our last 5 ACC road openers.

This team took Wake's best shot, played poorly, and still found a way to win.

Great stuff. Next play.

[sagegrouse]

I would like Wake if they didn't have those stupid tie dye shirts and techno music.

And huge pinwheels behind the stands that have been manufactured by the athletic department. Do the Deacs still have the motorcycle come onto the court to "rev" the crowd up?

[OldPhiKap]

We had lost 4 of our last 5 ACC road openers.

This team took Wake's best shot, played poorly, and still found a way to win.

Great stuff. Next play.

This. There is no easy game in the ACC this year, certainly not a road game. Wake played very well, we start three freshmen. About what you'd expect, glad we found a way to make the plays down the stretch.

[sagegrouse]

it's like clockwork. whenever we have a game perceived as sub-par, the posts about illness start coming.

Why not? We feel sick and project our malaise onto everyone around us. Truly empathetic, I would say. :)

[devildeac]

And huge pinwheels behind the stands that have been manufactured by the athletic department. Do the Deacs still have the motorcycle come onto the court to "rev" the crowd up?

Yes, unfortunately they do:mad:. I heard it (too) loud and clear and Bob Harris mentioned it also in none-too-friendly terms.

[sagegrouse]

I think people's expectations are a little out of wack if inconsistent performances are not expected. You have three freshman starters and a fourth underclassmen in the top eight That is a recipe for up and down play. I just hope the team can play their best basketball in March. I am really not troubled by some of the losses and that are sure to come.

This. And it also applies to earlier games, where the defense seemed to lag at the beginning of the second half. We've got a freshman-laden team, and it's miraculous the defense is as good as it is. The plus side is that we can expect improvement by March.

[CajunDevil]

A couple of thoughts:
1. Matt Jones 3... beyond huge. Having badly air balled a three from the corner in the first half, he drilled the most important shot of the game. I've been critical of him before but he is turning into a one of my favorites because you can trust his superb defense... and then boom. Hits big shot.

2. Tyus and Quinn were clutch down the stretch, and didn't get beat of the dribble this game.

3. Does Mitchell Wilbekin have some nefarious pics of Tim Brando? Perhaps that is why Brando gushed all things Wilbekin all night. Brando is insufferable.

4. I LOVE Justise's emotion on the floor and really liked Tyus's leadership to ward off a potential T. Justise is so dynamic and is a matchup nightmare.

5. Jah. I think the clownish Wake Big got in Jah's head a bit. Good learning experience for him and if a double double is his worst game then we will be fine.

[wilson]

Matt Jones, I thought had the biggest points of the night.Agreed. Not nearly as big a moment, obviously, but reminiscent of Andre Dawkins in the 2010 Regional Final vs. Baylor. Much-needed points to give the team some traction on the scoreboard and impart a general nerve-settling effect.

[OldPhiKap]

it's like clockwork. whenever we have a game perceived as sub-par, the posts about illness start coming.

If that happens against Syracuse, will that be like clockwork Orange? Inquiring Droogs want to know.

[Billy Dat]

RE: The Wake D on Jah

Fran Fraschilla ‏@franfraschilla 9m9 minutes ago
Coaches: Watched Duke-Wake game. Danny Manning had great double team game plan for Okafor. Double arrived ON THE CATCH and smothered him.

From K post game presser:
On Jahlil Okafor:
"Well, he wasn’t posting as low as we had hoped. They did an interesting thing in guarding him behind with a four and then Thomas attacked from the five. They did it just the opposite. It was a good game plan, obviously. The last two games now, we’ve seen different defenses and we’re going to continue to see it. That’s how we’re going to get better."

[DukieInBrasil]

The thing that this team can take away from this game is that they need to be less careless withe ball.
Okafor in particular was surprisingly cavalier, horrid passes and lazy handle on a couple of occasions. Allen, T Jones, Cook, Winslow and Sulaimon all had turnovers that stemmed from lazy passes or just not being focused enough on controlling the ball. All teams are going to commit turnovers, and some turns are alright if they stem from trying to make a play, the turns i'm thinking of from this last game are not those types. The good thing about it is that it can be worked on and (hopefully) corrected. Eliminate just a few of those turns and Duke would win by double digits.
Aside from turnovers i thought Duke played pretty well, shot well from the floor and 3, and nobody not named Okafor missed a FT (even so, Duke still ended up over 75% FT). Duke also outrebounded Wake, so there were some good things happening in the game.
I do have one criticism though: Matt Jones needs to go stronger to the rim. He has had at least one shot rejected at the rim on fast breaks or drives in each of the last few games, from trying to lay it up weakly in traffic. Either he needs to dunk it or learn to protect his layups by using his body or the rim, or both. As an athletic wing standing 6'5 there's no reason for him to go up soft in the lane (this coming from a 5'10 guy with bum knees and a vertical leap of around 4 inches who once upon a time could touch the rim, sometimes).

[tux]

Okafor
Duke's been feeding Okafor in the post more or less the same way all season. I think this game will lead to some new wrinkles in how we both free Okafor and how we attack the double teams. In addition to guys spotting up behind the 3-point line, we need some other action to make the defense pay.

In the second half, we started looking for Jahil moving toward the basket from the high post instead of just passing the ball to him from the wing moving away from the basket. And he scored a few times from that --- if he gets the ball on the actual block (or closer), he's almost unstoppable.

Teams will try to push him out and force him to pass from aggressive double teams all season.

Backcourt
The drive and dish from Tyus to Matt late in the 2nd half for an easy layup is an example of a play that only Tyus can make IMO. We really need the ball in Tyus's hands more and more. Cook and Rasheed have played great, but they like to dribble around sometimes without much purpose. And the offense suffers a bit from that.

Sheed made some great drive and kicks, but the guy has like one or two gears and hasn't learned how to use a change of pace to attack a defense --- he just sort of runs downhill and is almost always on the verge of being out of control. Otherwise, he's been great and hit some huge shots last night...

Secondary break
Wake did a great job of pushing the ball and testing our transition defense. It's high risk, high reward stuff that worked well last night for Wake. I have to think Duke will be working on that some in the near future.

[DBFAN]

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake. But as you say, those games were at home.

So does that mean Wofford is better than all of them.

[77devil]

I feel like Quinn's and 1 to grab the lead back with 5 to play, a lead we never gave back, was as big as Matt's 3.

9 of his 12 points came in the final 5 minutes.

Agreed. It was a contested shot in traffic under pressure. I'm glad Matt made his shot but it was an open look, and he was 0 for 3 or 4 on shots that weren't even close prior to the layup and the 3.

[jv001]

A couple of thoughts:
1. Matt Jones 3... beyond huge. Having badly air balled a three from the corner in the first half, he drilled the most important shot of the game. I've been critical of him before but he is turning into a one of my favorites because you can trust his superb defense... and then boom. Hits big shot.

2. Tyus and Quinn were clutch down the stretch, and didn't get beat of the dribble this game.

3. Does Mitchell Wilbekin have some nefarious pics of Tim Brando? Perhaps that is why Brando gushed all things Wilbekin all night. Brando is insufferable.

4. I LOVE Justise's emotion on the floor and really liked Tyus's leadership to ward off a potential T. Justise is so dynamic and is a matchup nightmare.

5. Jah. I think the clownish Wake Big got in Jah's head a bit. Good learning experience for him and if a double double is his worst game then we will be fine.

I pretty much agree except it looked like Quinn was beaten occasionally off the dribble. I'm going to re-watch the game(DVR) today or tomorrow to see if my eye test was right or wrong. It looks like Quinn will let his man get a little past him and begin to look for help. I wonder if he's depending on help too quickly and not extending enough effort to stay in front of his man. Last season we would get beaten way more often in cases like this and we'd hear poor communication or late switches. I know it's hard for guys to stay in front of players because they are allowed to carry the ball/palm the ball. It has not always been that way. But that's another pet peeve I have. GoDuke!

[jv001]

We had lost 4 of our last 5 ACC road openers.

This team took Wake's best shot, played poorly, and still found a way to win.

Great stuff. Next play.

Can't spork you but here's a big GoDuke! :cool: I knew before the game that it would not be a walk in the park. There are some venues that are trouble to play in. Joel is one to those venues because Wake plays out of their minds and the fans are nuts. In a good way. We did play poorly and I think it was from taking the Deacs lightly. I'm sure the coaching staff tried to instill in them that they would be tested, but with 3 freshmen in the starting lineup, that can be hard to get through. This should be a valuable lesson that came without a L in the second column. GoDuke!

[Billy Dat]

I pretty much agree except it looked like Quinn was beaten occasionally off the dribble. I'm going to re-watch the game(DVR) today or tomorrow to see if my eye test was right or wrong. It looks like Quinn will let his man get a little past him and begin to look for help. I wonder if he's depending on help too quickly and not extending enough effort to stay in front of his man. Last season we would get beaten way more often in cases like this and we'd hear poor communication or late switches. I know it's hard for guys to stay in front of players because they are allowed to carry the ball/palm the ball. It has not always been that way. But that's another pet peeve I have. GoDuke!

If I recall, they were killing us with high screening action where the screener, usually Jah's man, was setting up about 3 feet above the elbow, not straight up. Because we have been trying to ice/blue/down pick and rolls rather than our traditional hedge/show and recover pick and roll defense, there is room to operate if the guard does not effectively keep the dribbler out of the middle. So, yes, I think Quinn (and Tyus) were getting beat but largely because I think Wake was pretty sneaky with how they were springing that pick and roll and they weren't always ready to ice the ballhandler...at least that's what I remember. Between the defense on Jah and the offensive scheme, I am impressed with Manning as a game planner.

Here's a cool little article (there are many others) about the different pick and roll defense strategies:
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/18/5601402/nba-pick-and-roll-defense-playoffs-2014

[jv001]

If I recall, they were killing us with high screening action where the screener, usually Jah's man, was setting up about 3 feet above the elbow, not straight up. Because we have been trying to ice/blue/down pick and rolls rather than our traditional hedge/show and recover pick and roll defense, there is room to operate if the guard does not effectively keep the dribbler out of the middle. So, yes, I think Quinn (and Tyus) were getting beat but largely because I think Wake was pretty sneaky with how they were springing that pick and roll and they weren't always ready to ice the ballhandler...at least that's what I remember. Between the defense on Jah and the offensive scheme, I am impressed with Manning as a game planner.

Here's a cool little article (there are many others) about the different pick and roll defense strategies:
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/18/5601402/nba-pick-and-roll-defense-playoffs-2014

Thanks for the article. I never realized there were that many ways to defend the pick and roll. I know now what is meant by Ice, Blue, Down and Hedge. Thanks for sharing. I'm impressed with Manning as well. Wake has a good one. I hope they keep him for a while because he's good for the ACC. I just don't want the Deacs beating the Devils. Not even one time because I have to live here in Winston Salem. GoDuke!

[Philadukie]

I think people's expectations are a little out of wack if inconsistent performances are not expected. You have three freshman starters and a fourth underclassmen in the top eight That is a recipe for up and down play. I just hope the team can play their best basketball in March. I am really not troubled by some of the losses and that are sure to come.

Just wanted to second this. There WILL be some losses this year. But like this poster, I don't think I'll be troubled by them. This team is going to get better and tough experiences will help. I think this team is perfectly constituted to compete strongly in March and seems to have that critical, intangible "it" factor -- a combination of chemistry, toughness, and refusal to lose. You can see it in games like this, vs. UConn, and vs. Wisconsin.

Just wanted to add that Winslow is the type of tough, bad*** player that we haven't had the past few years but needed. Maybe since Kyle or even Nate James. Love it.

[Kedsy]

Purdue, NC State and Ole Miss are a lot better than Wake. But as you say, those games were at home.

Using single games is not a great way to judge strength of teams. Playing at home, Wake is roughly equal to Ole Miss and NC State playing on the road, and a little better than Purdue playing on the road.

Using Pomeroy's formula that we discussed in the Dork Polls thread yesterday:

Wake at home: .7092 (which would be ranked #81 in Pomeroy if it were a neutral court rating)

Mississippi on the road: .7194 (which would be ranked #77 in Pomeroy if it were a neutral court rating)

NC State on the road: .7151 (which would be ranked #81 in Pomeroy if it were a neutral court rating, I guess pushing Wake at home to #82)

Purdue on the road: .6806 (which would be ranked #97 in Pomeroy if it were a neutral court rating)

If you factor in the actual scores of the games, Duke's win by 8 is a little (but clearly very litte) worse than Virginia's 10 point win over NC State, a little (again, very little) better than Wisconsin's 7 point win over Purdue, and a decent amount better than Kentucky's 3 point OT win over Ole Miss.

[Billy Dat]

Thanks for the article. I never realized there were that many ways to defend the pick and roll. I know now what is meant by Ice, Blue, Down and Hedge.

Looking back at my comments, I think saying they were "killing" us with this stuff was overstating the case because where they really hurt us was in transition. But, pick and roll defense is an art and a science, as that article demonstrates. Granted, they were such a poor shooting team that I think we could have opted to go under the screens more and challenge them to hit that midrange shot...but, again, I think they surprised us a lot with where they were screening.

Not to get off on a tangent, but the modern basketball scribe, especially the NBA writers, have gotten great at explaining offensive and defensive strategy. You'd be surprised at how much misdirection teams employ to hide what they really want to do, like starting pick and roll action that is not meant to do anything but distract the defense from the real intentions taking place elsewhere on the court.

A good example is in the bottom half of this Zach Lowe Grantland piece, the part called, '4. Surprise Screens from Kyle Korver"
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-east-for-the-taking-torontos-master-plan/

Kyle Korver, a deadly 3 point shooter, comes busting around a screen and the defense is sure he's going to be the recipient of the pass. Instead, he buries two defenders with a surprise screen and his teammate gets a wide open look behind him. Now, that may have been a read he made because he's a really smart player but NBA offenses are designed with those kinds of decoys all over the place.

I am not saying that college offenses have developed this level of sophistication, but it occurs to me that when a team like Wake seems to be effectively causing chaos off high pick and rolls, it may be because they are implementing it a bit differently than what our coaches saw on tape and game-planned for. Like the quant/stathead stuff, Xs and Os iare fun to delve into if you have the appetite for it and the internet now provides so many resources for going deeper.

[superdave]

Thomas channeled his inner Rasheed Wallace tonight. He played great but acted foolish.

As for Duke, I think Okafor and Tyus were taken aback by the intensity of an ACC road game but came to life in the end.

Overall though, a game where Duke struggles yet still wins by three possessions on the road is a good sign by me.

Tyus sat a lot in the first half. Did he play more than 5-6 minutes?

I was very glad to see him bounce back and make big plays down the stretch though. He learned by watching, and was mature enough to apply those lessons within the same game. I found that to be impressive from him in his first ACC road game.

[Duvall]

So does that mean Wofford is better than all of them.

No. Just better than Wake, who is pretty bad.

[superdave]

The Wisconsin game kind of spoiled us as fans to remembering how difficult it is to win on the road. The team really gutted out a win. Winslow especially came through with some big plays.

Okafor seems really slow and deliberate with the ball, which works great when he's defended one on one as it gives his time to read his defender, but when the double teams come I feel like he needs to make his move more quickly. This game should be a good learning experience for him moving forward.

We discussed Okafor passing out of the double-team a lot in the Phase III thread. I think you are right - he needed to get rid of the ball more quickly last night. Thomas was moving his feet really well to maintain the double, so Okafor needed to not hang on for so long or to do a better job of creating space with his body or a dribble.

But again, his teammates need to be moving more to take advantage of those doubles. At least one guy needs to cut to the basket every single time Okafor is doubled 10+ feet out. That will weaken the double and open things up more on the perimeter.

[arnie]

Just wanted to second this. There WILL be some losses this year. But like this poster, I don't think I'll be troubled by them. This team is going to get better and tough experiences will help. I think this team is perfectly constituted to compete strongly in March and seems to have that critical, intangible "it" factor -- a combination of chemistry, toughness, and refusal to lose. You can see it in games like this, vs. UConn, and vs. Wisconsin.

Just wanted to add that Winslow is the type of tough, bad*** player that we haven't had the past few years but needed. Maybe since Kyle or even Nate James. Love it.

With Winslow and Okafor so strong in the front court, I see K going smaller with Sheed and Jones taking more of Amile's minutes. I hate it for Amile, but if he can't develop a consistent short range shot or move, the O can bog down a bit. Of course he will get minutes and will be fresher when he's in.

[toooskies]

We discussed Okafor passing out of the double-team a lot in the Phase III thread. I think you are right - he needed to get rid of the ball more quickly last night. Thomas was moving his feet really well to maintain the double, so Okafor needed to not hang on for so long or to do a better job of creating space with his body or a dribble.

But again, his teammates need to be moving more to take advantage of those doubles. At least one guy needs to cut to the basket every single time Okafor is doubled 10+ feet out. That will weaken the double and open things up more on the perimeter.

That's why I'd like to see Plumlee in with Jah. I feel he's a bigger target to hit with a pass when the other big leaves for double-teams.

Other observations:
- From Cook's first shot (which was short), I thought he looked a little sluggish. He turned it on towards the end, though.
- Our defense, though, put up a solid efficiency number (89.8). The margin of victory was small because we didn't score the way we typically do.
- We missed a lot of layups, particularly near the beginning of the 2nd half. We were only 18-41 (44%) inside the arc, and without Jah we were 14-35 (40%). And this isn't a team that takes a lot of long 2s. Credit Wake's defense (not just on Jahlil), but I think it was also a night where good shots just didn't go in.
- Amile needs to get more than 2 rebounds in 19 minutes, especially when his man is doubling off of him on the offensive end.

[Monmouth77]

Using single games is not a great way to judge strength of teams. Playing at home, Wake is roughly equal to Ole Miss and NC State playing on the road, and a little better than Purdue playing on the road.

Yes, and that's without even taking matchups and coaching into consideration. Just looking at Wake's roster (and even watching them play Louisville) I would not have guessed that they had the length and quickness to pressure us in the half court, and the speed to beat us down the floor in transition. But they came prepared with an excellent game plan to slow down Jah and generate turnovers, and a huge chunk of their points were scored that way.

It might not be quite correct to say we match up better against Wisconsin than we do Wake, but we certainly had the personnel to execute a plan that took Wisconsin out of what it wanted to do, and Wake did the same to us for much of the game.

Manning seems like a good coach, and maybe Wake will start outperforming its record-to-date. But even if not, it's hard to say our performance against Wake on the road has any direct predictive value for our next game against State. Maybe State tries to guard Jah with Anya one-on-one and we shut down their three point shooters, and it's a blow-out. Not sure that would mean that Wake is better than State, and it could mean only that we match up better against State than Wake.

[Billy Dat]

Julius Hodge has a tip for Jah based on last night....

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley
K said Jah was posting up higher than they would have liked last night. Credit Leonard for helping force that
pic.twitter.com/wikiRNQLMU

Julius Hodge ‏@Follow24Hodge
@laurakeeley over the head pass fake then right hand bounce pass lead him into a drop step basline 2pts plus an assist. THIS AN EASY FIX.

By the way, I watched the game on ESPN3. For halftime content, they showed a bunch of the pre-season on-court game strategy videos shot with Jason Williams, Shane Battier and assorted ACC stars. They talked and demonstrated pinch post offense with Montrezl Harell from Louisville, perimeter pack line D with Justin Anderson and Malcolm Brogdon of UVA...they were awesome. Sadly, I can't find them anywhere online.

[dukelifer]

Just wanted to second this. There WILL be some losses this year. But like this poster, I don't think I'll be troubled by them. This team is going to get better and tough experiences will help. I think this team is perfectly constituted to compete strongly in March and seems to have that critical, intangible "it" factor -- a combination of chemistry, toughness, and refusal to lose. You can see it in games like this, vs. UConn, and vs. Wisconsin.

Just wanted to add that Winslow is the type of tough, bad*** player that we haven't had the past few years but needed. Maybe since Kyle or even Nate James. Love it.

As we have learned- much about the Tourney is how you play in the last five minutes of games. When Wake got close or even had the lead- Duke answered and in the last five minutes- played some of their best ball. This team has a few players who like the big moment and that bodes well. You learn how to win in March by having tough, close games in the winter. Every team will play hard against Duke- but the question is how will Duke respond when it matters. Yesterday they did very well.

[OldSchool]

Okafor in particular was surprisingly cavalier, horrid passes and lazy handle on a couple of occasions.

He's had only one game all season with fewer points. Did someone tell him the Knicks had moved into last place in the NBA?

[devildeac]

He's had only one game all season with fewer points. Did someone tell him the Knicks had moved into last place in the NBA?

Wait, did the Sixers get moved to the D League?:rolleyes:

[OldSchool]

That's nothing. I once watched a Carolina non-conference game in HD and got a rash.


My HD Smart TV picked up the foot odor and diagnosed the cause - dirty socks. MP3 refused to wash his lucky game socks until we win by less than 10.

You have only a Smart TV? The last time I watched Carolina on my HD SuperSmart TV, it awarded me a degree in AFAM Studies and offered me the use of one of Ol' Roy's homes.

[Kedsy]

With Winslow and Okafor so strong in the front court, I see K going smaller with Sheed and Jones taking more of Amile's minutes.


That's why I'd like to see Plumlee in with Jah.

Wow, Amile has one subpar performance and DBR relegates him to 8th man? Tough crowd.

In a more serious vein, Amile is very important for our defensive success, is our best defensive rebounder, and is our best on-court communicator. I don't think Coach K is going to bench him just so our best-in-the-country offense can have better options when opponents double-team Jahlil.

[freshmanjs]

Wow, Amile has one subpar performance and DBR relegates him to 8th man? Tough crowd.

In a more serious vein, Amile is very important for our defensive success, is our best defensive rebounder, and is our best on-court communicator. I don't think Coach K is going to bench him just so our best-in-the-country offense can have better options when opponents double-team Jahlil.

agree but he has held him under 20 minutes for both acc games. that is not what i was expecting.

[gam7]

This seems as good a time as any to trot out the 5 / 20 / 5 theory.* Some coach, I honestly can't remember who, has said that you play 5 games a year where everything clicks and you look great, 5 games a year where things don't click and you look bad, and then the remaining 20 games is who you really are. I'm always happy to have 8-pt ACC road wins end up in that bottom 5 bucket.




*I do not in any way believe that this is a real thing, but it gives me comfort in days when we look a little off.

This sounds like a Tommy Lasorda theory about baseball, which I actually think about often during baseball season. It's that no matter how good/bad you are, you are going to win one-third of your games and lose one-third of your games. It's what happens in the other one-third of your games that determines how good a season you have. For baseball, I find myself putting games into buckets as I watch/listen. I've never heard the 5/20/5 hypothesis for college basketball, but I don't think I like it - maybe because "who you really are" is so subjective.

[Kedsy]

agree but he has held him under 20 minutes for both acc games. that is not what i was expecting.

I agree and am also surprised about that. But I'd be really surprised if Amile's minutes shrink further just to give us a little more flexibility on offense.

[Kfanarmy]

Okafor
Duke's been feeding Okafor in the post more or less the same way all season. I think this game will lead to some new wrinkles in how we both free Okafor and how we attack the double teams. In addition to guys spotting up behind the 3-point line, we need some other action to make the defense pay.


Wake played Okafor well, but I believe that defense gets abused if AJ starts hitting the 8-10 footer with regularity.

[OldPhiKap]

Wait, did the Sixers get moved to the D League?:rolleyes:

They've been relegated.

[DBFAN]

No. Just better than Wake, who is pretty bad.

Not sure if my sarcasm came across right. I was referring to the fact that Wofford beat State and since we are apparently using transference then they must be on Par with those other teams

I remember a few years ago Duke embarssing Maryland in Durham. Best them by 30-40 points and could have been much worse. But I remember even better going to their place a few weeks later and losing. Sometimes a team just plays really hard and sometimes they play really bad. Duke was not clicking and WFU was playing as hard as they could. I'm pretty sure the sky is not falling

[mpj96]

I thought it was good the team gutted it out. Great lessons for the underclassmen and great to see that the team can do that.

My biggest take is we have to develop a couple of sets to handle a strong double team on the Big Oak.

Manning did a great job on teaching his post men leverage and positioning. They kept JO from posting too close to the basket most of the night. They also did a very good job of having the initial defender slide down and shutting off moves towards the baseline. JO was forced to move to the inside with ball and the double team quickly came when that occured.

AJ needs to start lower along the baseline to allow for a easy pass for a layup; similar to combating a zone D. His current high post position is fine for setting screens but he is still hesistant to take the 10-14 foot shot; leaving him useless for punishing the D for shadowing JO.

I dont know that another coach would be able to teach the technique as well as Manning did but, the blueprint is there for shutting him down. Other Ds had tried this same technique but none were as good as Wake at not allowing JO to post up low and keep him from making a post move to the short side/base line side.

Bingo. The Wake game is going to be Exhibit A for every team we meet going forward addressing how to stop Okafor. They attacked his one-handed moves, knew his passing lanes and forced him to start his post up a few feet further out than where he typically operates. Somehow they converted us from an inside-out team back into an outside in team. It will be interesting to see how Okafor adjusts as other teams with different personnel attempt a similar strategy.

The more I see of him the more I think Manning is just a great, great coach and a fantastic get for Wake. Manning's big men at KU did remarkably well and this Wake team was well prepared for a big game.

[jv001]

Bingo. The Wake game is going to be Exhibit A for every team we meet going forward addressing how to stop Okafor. They attacked his one-handed moves, knew his passing lanes and forced him to start his post up a few feet further out than where he typically operates. Somehow they converted us from an inside-out team back into an outside in team. It will be interesting to see how Okafor adjusts as other teams with different personnel attempt a similar strategy.

The more I see of him the more I think Manning is just a great, great coach and a fantastic get for Wake. Manning's big men at KU did remarkably well and this Wake team was well prepared for a big game.

All good points and I would like to add; Duke's other 4 players need to move better when Jah has the ball down low. It was apparent Manning had scouted Duke and knew where those 4 players like to set up for open 3 pointers. Those outlet passes were defended well from the start. Both Okafor and the recipient of the pass were defended hard. Great coaching move by Manning. A few moves down the lane by Amile, Justise, Rasheed and M. Jones and Jah would have an assist and Duke would have a basket. Bet we see some of this going forward. GoDuke!

[gam7]

RE: The Wake D on Jah

Fran Fraschilla ‏@franfraschilla 9m9 minutes ago
Coaches: Watched Duke-Wake game. Danny Manning had great double team game plan for Okafor. Double arrived ON THE CATCH and smothered him.

From K post game presser:
On Jahlil Okafor:
"Well, he wasn’t posting as low as we had hoped. They did an interesting thing in guarding him behind with a four and then Thomas attacked from the five. They did it just the opposite. It was a good game plan, obviously. The last two games now, we’ve seen different defenses and we’re going to continue to see it. That’s how we’re going to get better."

The Sports Information Dept. cleaned it up a bit. What he actually said was a bit more entertaining. He said, "they almost juxta-supposed ... is that a good word for it? That's pretty good for me. [And then presumably looking at Laura Keeley] Don't nod your head Laura."

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree and am also surprised about that. But I'd be really surprised if Amile's minutes shrink further just to give us a little more flexibility on offense.

Interesting that the one player who we all thought didn't have a true back-up (Amile) is averaging the least amount of minutes, especially after his only "back up" transferred? In the last three games, Jefferson has averaged 18 min. Coach K seems to prefer Justise as that stretch-4 that we all know Coach K loves.

I don't think that this is a sign against Amile at all; rather, I think it speaks to the difficulty of keeping Rasheed and Matt on the bench.

Moving forward, I expect Amile's minutes to yo-yo depending on the competition. In close games, with Amile's poor FT shooting and lack of any jump shot, I can see Justise playing a lot more.

[DRC]

Phew, that was a little painful to watch. I guess my best description of Duke's effort is plodding. Lethargic. Not sure why. Flu bug going around the team? No energy. Devin Thomas played over his head, but I really didn't think wake played that well either. An effort like that at UVA/unc could easily be a loss. Will be interested to hear what K has to say.
Exactly. Wake wasn't shooting particularly well, which contributed to the final outcome. Had their percentage been up a bit, this could have easily been a different result. We were fortunate to come out with a win last night after such a lethargic 35 min. I just hope we regain the fire, and GO Duke!!

[tux]

Wake played Okafor well, but I believe that defense gets abused if AJ starts hitting the 8-10 footer with regularity.

Sure, but I don't really think that's going to happen on a consistent basis (this year). Amile just doesn't have a ton of confidence in that shot.


All good points and I would like to add; Duke's other 4 players need to move better when Jah has the ball down low. It was apparent Manning had scouted Duke and knew where those 4 players like to set up for open 3 pointers. Those outlet passes were defended well from the start. Both Okafor and the recipient of the pass were defended hard. Great coaching move by Manning. A few moves down the lane by Amile, Justise, Rasheed and M. Jones and Jah would have an assist and Duke would have a basket. Bet we see some of this going forward. GoDuke!

I thought Wake's rotation on the double team pretty much left the same guy on the opposite wing open that almost every team that has doubled Jah left open. I.e., I don't really agree that the recipient was guarded that hard. What I thought Wake did was double so aggressively and quickly, that it was the players doubling Okafor who prevented him from making a good pass. If the pass is a bit high (or off the mark) then that gives the defense enough time to close out on the wing, negating the advantage the offense can take from Jah bending the D to such a degree. Most teams have been bringing a later double team, which has given Jah the space to start his move toward the basket. Probably a quicker and shorter pass out of the double, that then could be relocated to the open man would have been safer and more productive last night.

Also, Okafor is setting up on one block and then moving across the lane (toward the ball) to post up. I thought Wake didn't really push him out physically as much as they fronted him in a way that forced him to work around them and catch the ball away from the basket. Maybe he should think about sealing the defender and looking for a lob pass from the wing. I don't know --- but we'll need some new wrinkles soon...

[Lar77]

Wow, Amile has one subpar performance and DBR relegates him to 8th man? Tough crowd.

In a more serious vein, Amile is very important for our defensive success, is our best defensive rebounder, and is our best on-court communicator. I don't think Coach K is going to bench him just so our best-in-the-country offense can have better options when opponents double-team Jahlil.

Agree with this thought. I thought Amile was very effective on defense in the first half, not stats wise, but in positioning and communication. I was surprised that he didn't get the ball more often when Thomas moved to double up Jahlil, but probably Wake was rotating to cover off that pass (opening up Justise).

[Henderson]

Wait, did the Sixers get moved to the D League?:rolleyes:


They've been relegated.

You jest, but it might not be a bad thing for there to be some sort of relegation and promotion system in the NBA. The logistics would be frighteningly complex and unrealistic in the world as it exists today. But I can tell you that my Queens Park Rangers don't tank at the end of the season, because of the loss of funding and prestige that comes with relegation from the Premier League. They just SEEM to tank throughout the season.

But I digress. What I really was wondering after last night's game was whether, if Devin Thomas plays his remaining games like he has against Duke and Louisville, he might get some NBA draft run this spring. He's only 6-8 in shoes (not 6-9 as advertised), but I was impressed with his skills last night. If demeanor isn't a skill. He's been quite inconsistent, but like the girl with the curl on her forehead, when he's good, he's very very good.

[sagegrouse]

Interesting that the one player who we all thought didn't have a true back-up (Amile) is averaging the least amount of minutes, especially after his only "back up" transferred? In the last three games, Jefferson has averaged 18 min. Coach K seems to prefer Justise as that stretch-4 that we all know Coach K loves.

.

Gee, maybe it is true that Coach K doesn't like to assign positions.

[sagegrouse]

Sure, but I don't really think that's going to happen on a consistent basis (this year). Amile just doesn't have a ton of confidence in that shot.



I thought Wake's rotation on the double team pretty much left the same guy on the opposite wing open that almost every team that has doubled Jah left open. I.e., I don't really agree that the recipient was guarded that hard. What I thought Wake did was double so aggressively and quickly, that it was the players doubling Okafor who prevented him from making a good pass. If the pass is a bit high (or off the mark) then that gives the defense enough time to close out on the wing, negating the advantage the offense can take from Jah bending the D to such a degree. Most teams have been bringing a later double team, which has given Jah the space to start his move toward the basket. Probably a quicker and shorter pass out of the double, that then could be relocated to the open man would have been safer and more productive last night.

Also, Okafor is setting up on one block and then moving across the lane (toward the ball) to post up. I thought Wake didn't really push him out physically as much as they fronted him in a way that forced him to work around them and catch the ball away from the basket. Maybe he should think about sealing the defender and looking for a lob pass from the wing. I don't know --- but we'll need some new wrinkles soon...


It is probably elsewhere in this thread, but I thought the G-man's comments on Jah were instructive: not enough movement, not enough effort.

[freshmanjs]

Gee, maybe it is true that Coach K doesn't like to assign positions.

except despite the DBR myth, he talks about using people at various positions all the time. "he can play the 4.", "he can defend the 5", etc

[Furniture]

You jest, but it might not be a bad thing for there to be some sort of relegation and promotion system in the NBA. The logistics would be frighteningly complex and unrealistic in the world as it exists today. But I can tell you that my Queens Park Rangers don't tank at the end of the season, because of the loss of funding and prestige that comes with relegation from the Premier League. They just SEEM to tank throughout the season.

QPR do have a lot of money and tank every now and again or even yo-yo just like my team Birmingham City did a couple of years ago. Last year we almost got relegated from the championship. Indeed relegation from the Premier league can be just the start of a clubs a decline from which they can sometimes never recover.

[arnie]

Wow, Amile has one subpar performance and DBR relegates him to 8th man? Tough crowd.

In a more serious vein, Amile is very important for our defensive success, is our best defensive rebounder, and is our best on-court communicator. I don't think Coach K is going to bench him just so our best-in-the-country offense can have better options when opponents double-team Jahlil.

Typical exaggeration retaliating to two posts. Amile will not be an 8th man, simply more minutes for Sheed and Matt and noon get think Amile gets 25+ each game. Hopefully Amile will develop a better shot and/or approach to offense, but until then I think it reasonable to see his minutes fewer than I expected at start of season.

[superdave]

Bingo. The Wake game is going to be Exhibit A for every team we meet going forward addressing how to stop Okafor. They attacked his one-handed moves, knew his passing lanes and forced him to start his post up a few feet further out than where he typically operates. Somehow they converted us from an inside-out team back into an outside in team. It will be interesting to see how Okafor adjusts as other teams with different personnel attempt a similar strategy.

The more I see of him the more I think Manning is just a great, great coach and a fantastic get for Wake. Manning's big men at KU did remarkably well and this Wake team was well prepared for a big game.


All good points and I would like to add; Duke's other 4 players need to move better when Jah has the ball down low. It was apparent Manning had scouted Duke and knew where those 4 players like to set up for open 3 pointers. Those outlet passes were defended well from the start. Both Okafor and the recipient of the pass were defended hard. Great coaching move by Manning. A few moves down the lane by Amile, Justise, Rasheed and M. Jones and Jah would have an assist and Duke would have a basket. Bet we see some of this going forward. GoDuke!


I think Wheat was correct a few weeks ago that Coach K would have to introduce some big man screens to help get Okafor open. Relying on Jah to fight for and establish position on the block is only one way for him to get the ball. We saw Winslow set a screen in the second half that got Jah open and he scored. I expect to see more of this, but you may want to wait until later in the year to use it a lot so it is not over-scouted.

In addition to guys cutting down the lane, relocating for a 3 and Okafor using shot/pass fakes, everything he can do to improve is pretty simple and will make us a lot better given how much attention Okafor will get from defenses.

Wake did us a favor throwing that double-team scheme at us. Okafor will destroy it next time he sees it.