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uh_no
01-01-2015, 10:43 PM
Can you believe UNC hired this guy? (If you don't see the problem, google: Gene Chizik paid USA Today.). What are they thinking?

are you kidding me?

hope the SACS says it demonstrates a lack of concern about their academic integrity :P

crdaul
01-02-2015, 10:40 AM
Sounds like a perfect fit to me....

wilko
01-02-2015, 11:12 AM
are you kidding me?

hope the SACS says it demonstrates a lack of concern about their academic integrity :P

Thats like "Flipping the bird" doing a "Cock a snoot", sticking their tongue out and pointing to their bare posterior - all at the same time.

What more can they do to demonstrate they simply don't care?

oldnavy
01-02-2015, 11:45 AM
Can you believe UNC hired this guy? (If you don't see the problem, google: Gene Chizik paid USA Today.). What are they thinking?

They are thinking that he will help their anemic defense, beyond that they either are clueless to how it looks or they couldn't care less, I just don't know....

But, my first thought was "Really"? You are under investigation, and the world outside of UNC now thinks you are a bunch of cheaters and you hire a guy with a past?

I would think, that the rational mind would be looking for coaches with character and spotless resumes.... not recycled SEC losing coaches with questionable pasts... but hey what do I know compared to the UNC mind trust? After all, their way seems to be working.... oh, wait.... never mind.

OldPhiKap
01-02-2015, 11:47 AM
They are thinking that he will help their anemic defense, beyond that they either are clueless to how it looks or they couldn't care less, I just don't know....

But, my first thought was "Really"? You are under investigation, and the world outside of UNC now thinks you are a bunch of cheaters and you hire a guy with a past?

I would think, that the rational mind would be looking for coaches with character and spotless resumes.... not recycled SEC losing coaches with questionable pasts... but hey what do I know compared to the UNC mind trust? After all, their way seems to be working.... oh, wait.... never mind.

It's pretty obvious -- they don't give a @#$# about what the NCAA thinks. They don't care if they have a rough patch, because if sanctions are coming they're coming regardless. They are going to compete in football, whatever it takes.

jv001
01-02-2015, 11:53 AM
Can you believe UNC hired this guy? (If you don't see the problem, google: Gene Chizik paid USA Today.). What are they thinking?

Sounds like this guy can help the football program win some games, by paying athletes to stay in school and not go pro and his greatest attribute will be obtaining passing grades for failing student athletes. The unc way. GoDuke!

sagegrouse
01-02-2015, 12:27 PM
It's pretty obvious -- they don't give a @#$# about what the NCAA thinks. They don't care if they have a rough patch, because if sanctions are coming they're coming regardless. They are going to compete in football, whatever it takes.


Sounds like this guy can help the football program win some games, by paying athletes to stay in school and not go pro and his greatest attribute will be obtaining passing grades for failing student athletes. The unc way. GoDuke!

I think the UNC Board of Governors read the headline at breakfast and snorted in their oatmeal. Meanwhile, the PR firm that UNC engaged is preparing a new proposal to cover the Chizik hiring.

BD80
01-02-2015, 01:30 PM
Chizik may be a big step forward for unc.

If current and recent athletic department employees are to be believed, they have no clue about what goes on with their "student" athletes away from athletics.

Chizik has a history of being very attentive to his athletes

Since it is clear that unc need not follow rules, Chizik is the perfect hire

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-02-2015, 01:46 PM
I don't know why I do it. I just can't help myself I guess... ventured over to IC for a few minutes to see what they are saying about the Chizik hire. Front page article says nada about how/why he was fired or the concerns about cheating. And 5 pages of "discussion" where just one poster raised an honest question, was beaten down by the mouth breathing horde and then others piled on about there being no responsibility on the part of Chizik b/c he didn't know. Sounds oh so familiar. Yes, he in fact is a perfect fit and a great hire for UNC. Their mascot should be a ostrich. Uch, I feel so dirty and grimy.

Tom B.
01-02-2015, 02:58 PM
They are going to compete in football, whatever it takes.




The thing is, that's been their attitude since the mid/late 1990s, and what have they done? Jack squat. Since Mack Brown left, they're not even .500 -- they're 100-109, and that's only if you include the 16 wins they vacated from 2008 and 2009. They've never finished higher than third in their division of the ACC, except for one season (2012) when they tied for first in the division, but were ineligible for the postseason. Duke has played in more ACC Championship Games than Carolina.

That's the real scandal here. All that cheating, all that "investment" in becoming a big, bad football program, and they've been barely mediocre at best. If you're gonna cheat, you should at least have something to show for it.

hudlow
01-02-2015, 03:03 PM
They hired Chizik so they could fire him to show their proactive stance for academic/athletic integrity.

ETA: or what Sage said....

devildeac
01-02-2015, 03:48 PM
are you kidding me?

hope the SACS says it demonstrates a lack of concern about their academic integrity :P

Didn't see a link to this anywhere, so, here ya go:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/04/03/ncaa-football-auburn-violations-gene-chizik/2051041/

Like I said yesterday and others have echoed, this seems like a match made in heaven:rolleyes:.

blueduke59
01-02-2015, 04:55 PM
The thing is, that's been their attitude since the mid/late 1990s, and what have they done? Jack squat. Since Mack Brown left, they're not even .500 -- they're 100-109, and that's only if you include the 16 wins they vacated from 2008 and 2009. They've never finished higher than third in their division of the ACC, except for one season (2012) when they tied for first in the division, but were ineligible for the postseason. Duke has played in more ACC Championship Games than Carolina.

That's the real scandal here. All that cheating, all that "investment" in becoming a big, bad football program, and they've been barely mediocre at best. If you're gonna cheat, you should at least have something to show for it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. UNC last won the conference in 1980. !980!

dudog84
01-02-2015, 05:12 PM
Thats like "Flipping the bird" doing a "Cock a snoot", sticking their tongue out and pointing to their bare posterior - all at the same time.

What more can they do to demonstrate they simply don't care?

As usual, Monty Python nails it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3I5XcsReT0

Henderson
01-02-2015, 05:24 PM
It's a lot easier to say "everybody does it" when you can roll out you own guy as proof.

JasonEvans
01-02-2015, 05:41 PM
To me, the funny part is that Chizik was a very mediocre coach at both Iowa St and Auburn. He won a national title in a magical year at Auburn (made possible by Auburn boosters supposedly paying vast sums of money to acquire Cam Newton for one year) but aside from that amazing run (made possible by Gus Malzahn's genius at offensive coordinator) he was anything but impressive in all his other seasons as a head coach. I know UNC is hiring him to run the D, but I find the guy less than really impressive.

When you combine that with the fact that he has the stink of scandal all over him, it really is mystifying. I mean, were there really no DC candidates out there who had not been accused of rampant rules violations in the past?!?!

-Jason "the fact that they don't see any of this stuff in advance... I swear, they are so tone-deaf over there, it is just shocking" Evans

richardjackson199
01-02-2015, 05:47 PM
Sports talk radio in NC (whoever the guy was covering for Dave Glenn show) called it a brilliant hire. He said the guy was an excellent defensive coach, and even moreso was known to be an outstanding recruiter. He said he expected UNC recruiting to have a major upgrade with Chizik. At least Chizik has proven aptitude for the Carolina Way. Vomit

devildeac
01-02-2015, 05:49 PM
To me, the funny part is that Chizik was a very mediocre coach at both Iowa St and Auburn. He won a national title in a magical year at Auburn (made possible by Auburn boosters supposedly paying vast sums of money to acquire Cam Newton for one year) but aside from that amazing run (made possible by Gus Malzahn's genius at offensive coordinator) he was anything but impressive in all his other seasons as a head coach. I know UNC is hiring him to run the D, but I find the guy less than really impressive.

When you combine that with the fact that he has the stink of scandal all over him, it really is mystifying. I mean, were there really no DC candidates out there who had not been accused of rampant rules violations in the past?!?!

-Jason "the fact that they don't see any of this stuff in advance... I swear, they are so tone-deaf over there, it is just shocking" Evans

4616

alteran
01-03-2015, 11:43 PM
They mentioned Frank McGuire in today's broadcast, which reminded me that this thread needed to be put back on the front page.

BigWayne
01-04-2015, 03:59 AM
Latest Dan Kane/UNC piece. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/03/4447674/for-some-nc-retirees-a-big-pension.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1)

Possibly leading to future developments as it explains how Baddour's pension was boosted by bonuses for post season play and academic performance, both of which could be "vacated" as part of the aftermath of the scandal.

sagegrouse
01-04-2015, 08:33 AM
Latest Dan Kane/UNC piece. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/03/4447674/for-some-nc-retirees-a-big-pension.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1)

Possibly leading to future developments as it explains how Baddour's pension was boosted by bonuses for post season play and academic performance, both of which could be "vacated" as part of the aftermath of the scandal.

Do you think UNC would employ the dreaded "claw-back" on Baddour's pension?

BigWayne
01-04-2015, 01:00 PM
Do you think UNC would employ the dreaded "claw-back" on Baddour's pension?

Only by court order after somebody sues them.

OldPhiKap
01-04-2015, 01:45 PM
Latest Dan Kane/UNC piece. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/03/4447674/for-some-nc-retirees-a-big-pension.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1)

Possibly leading to future developments as it explains how Baddour's pension was boosted by bonuses for post season play and academic performance, both of which could be "vacated" as part of the aftermath of the scandal.


Do you think UNC would employ the dreaded "claw-back" on Baddour's pension?


Only by court order after somebody sues them.

Si imagine Roy has a similar clause. Claw Back 2005!

BigWayne
01-05-2015, 07:07 PM
Despite the lawsuit, UNC keeps attacking Mary Willingham.... http://scatter.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/the-unc-scandal-fall-2014-roundup/

At least Perrin does admit that the fake classes were "fraud" and not just "easy classes." Sort of a one step forward, two steps back kind of piece.

BigWayne
01-06-2015, 07:27 PM
Latest from Smith and Willingham. Worth a read. (http://paperclassinc.com/at-unc-dithering-is-done-but-still-deep-in-denial/)

MarkD83
01-06-2015, 08:18 PM
Isn't tomorrow the day that UNC has to respond to the Southern Accreditation group?

gumbomoop
01-06-2015, 08:22 PM
Latest from Smith and Willingham. Worth a read. (http://paperclassinc.com/at-unc-dithering-is-done-but-still-deep-in-denial/)

Thanks for link to this important piece. They name names of Boxill-enablers. Including Chancellor Folt.

But really their larger point is that quite a few UNC faculty willingly suspended judgment about Boxill's conflicts of interest, then doubled down in foolishly accepting Boxill's sham leadership as she shepherded internal "investigations" into safe channels.

BigWayne
01-06-2015, 08:28 PM
Isn't tomorrow the day that UNC has to respond to the Southern Accreditation group?

They got a 5 day extension.

BigWayne
01-06-2015, 08:35 PM
Apparently, the Chizik hire is stalled a bit.

Warning, it's a Chansky piece.
http://chapelboro.com/sports/unc-sports/chizik-hiring-slowed-background-investigation/

BigWayne
01-06-2015, 09:49 PM
One more for today....

Scandal denier/cheerleader Bradley Bethel has a new, rather unremarkable piece up. http://coachingthemind.blogspot.com/2015/01/wainsteins-impressions-and-lessons-from.html

What is interesting about it is in the comments section, there is a claim by Wendy Bryan that she is willing to go on the record to expose the higher ups responsible for throwing the tutors under the bus.

4622

This would not be her first time speaking out in public against a large organization she has been a part of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Dascomb
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/wendy-bryan/1a/790/b51
http://www.oocities.org/televisioncity/9699/usa/usa69-1.jpg

Henderson
01-06-2015, 10:10 PM
Apparently, the Chizik hire is stalled a bit.

Warning, it's a Chansky piece.
http://chapelboro.com/sports/unc-sports/chizik-hiring-slowed-background-investigation/

Q: Who at UNC is sceptical of the hire, resulting in this story? Folt is under pressure to appear as though she is going to reexamine the Chizik hire. This might be an interesting look into who at UNC-CH is calling the shots. Folt has been an ostrich, so if she is overruled, she's a castrated ostrich.

Just a metaphor; don't picture it. Focus on Big Wayne's post pic to soothe yourself if need be.

OldPhiKap
01-07-2015, 07:16 AM
Q: Who at UNC is sceptical of the hire, resulting in this story? Folt is under pressure to appear as though she is going to reexamine the Chizik hire. This might be an interesting look into who at UNC-CH is calling the shots. Folt has been an ostrich, so if she is overruled, she's a castrated ostrich.

Just a metaphor; don't picture it. Focus on Big Wayne's post pic to soothe yourself if need be.

Sounds like Chansky is. I got the vibe that if they float Chizik's name, then pass him over for ethical issues, Chansky thinks this "proves" UNC is now clean. It does not work that way, but I will applaud UNC if they pass on Chizik.

As for Wendy,babe looks like Babs from Animal House. Just sayin'.

BigWayne
01-08-2015, 10:07 PM
Today should have been the first day for this class: http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate/undergraduate-courses/spring-2015/phil-266-001-ethics-of-sport/

Wonder if anybody, especially the instructor, showed up.

devildeac
01-08-2015, 10:10 PM
Today should have been the first day for this class: http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate/undergraduate-courses/spring-2015/phil-266-001-ethics-of-sport/

Wonder if anybody, especially the instructor, showed up.

Can't possibly meet Tu-Th. Must be a misprint. Gotta be a paper class.:rolleyes:

sagegrouse
01-08-2015, 10:57 PM
Apparently, the Chizik hire is stalled a bit.

Warning, it's a Chansky piece.
http://chapelboro.com/sports/unc-sports/chizik-hiring-slowed-background-investigation/

Give yourselves gold stars, Pack Pride and DBR. The heat from these sources was immediate and scornful. As a result, the Chancellor said, "Not so fast there, Bubba!"

devilish
01-09-2015, 06:02 AM
Today should have been the first day for this class: http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate/undergraduate-courses/spring-2015/phil-266-001-ethics-of-sport/

Wonder if anybody, especially the instructor, showed up.

I'd love to audit that class, just for laughs.

jv001
01-09-2015, 08:25 AM
Apparently, the Chizik hire is stalled a bit.

Warning, it's a Chansky piece.
http://chapelboro.com/sports/unc-sports/chizik-hiring-slowed-background-investigation/

Well if unc is looking for information on Chizik from Auburn, I hope Auburn is more forthcoming than the cheaters when it comes to giving out information. They(unc) seem to be the best when it comes to cover up. All I can say is good luck. GoDuke!

BD80
01-09-2015, 09:29 AM
Today should have been the first day for this class: http://philosophy.unc.edu/undergraduate/undergraduate-courses/spring-2015/phil-266-001-ethics-of-sport/

Wonder if anybody, especially the instructor, showed up.


I'd love to audit that class, just for laughs.

You would probably put in more effort than the rest of the class combined (including the "professor")

How can it NOT bother the true academics at unc that their entire life's work is now just a punch-line because of the administrations refusal to own up to the fraud that occurred?

For goodness sake, even NCState is justifiably ridiculing the academics in chapel hill

killerleft
01-09-2015, 12:05 PM
I'd love to audit that class, just for laughs.

I think we're all auditing that class right now!:D

cspan37421
01-09-2015, 12:12 PM
I think we're all auditing that class right now!:D

When I was a student at Duke, I remember once noticing in a bathroom - in the Dept. of Religion/Div School Library building no less - graffiti near the toilet paper that said, "UNC Diplomas - free - take one"

It was funny then for being over the top (no pun intended!)

Now, it's funny because it's true.

martydoesntfoul
01-09-2015, 01:19 PM
One more for today....

Scandal denier/cheerleader Bradley Bethel has a new, rather unremarkable piece up. http://coachingthemind.blogspot.com/2015/01/wainsteins-impressions-and-lessons-from.html

What is interesting about it is in the comments section, there is a claim by Wendy Bryan that she is willing to go on the record to expose the higher ups responsible for throwing the tutors under the bus.

4622

This would not be her first time speaking out in public against a large organization she has been a part of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Dascomb
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/wendy-bryan/1a/790/b51
http://www.oocities.org/televisioncity/9699/usa/usa69-1.jpg

This is the area that just hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. In the incriminating Crowder email she talks about getting pressure from higher ups about the number of independent studies being offered... wouldn't it seem obvious for Wainstein investigators to ask who exactly she was referencing?

alteran
01-09-2015, 04:16 PM
This is the area that just hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. In the incriminating Crowder email she talks about getting pressure from higher ups about the number of independent studies being offered... wouldn't it seem obvious for Wainstein investigators to ask who exactly she was referencing?

Maybe they did. Either way, I don't doubt for a second she'd refuse to talk.

BigWayne
01-09-2015, 07:47 PM
Another voice from the UNC faculty speaks: http://chapelboro.com/columns/the-commentators/long-past-time-unc-forfeit-games/
Margolis has been a co-author with Jay Smith in the past, so it's like it's a completely new faction, but it is pretty well written.

It's on chapelboro, but it's not even close to something Chansky would write.


Taking the initiative to forfeit these tainted games would be an acknowledgment of the wrong-doing, and more importantly a strong statement from UNC leaders that the University’s educational mission supersedes wins and losses in sports.

bedeviled
01-09-2015, 08:05 PM
Dartmouth headline: Sixty-four students charged with honor code violations (http://thedartmouth.com/2015/01/07/sixty-four-students-charged-with-honor-code-violations/) due to cheating in a "Sports, Ethics and Religion" class.

From the article:

The course itself was partly designed for student-athletes, Balmer [the course professor] said, and just under 70 percent of the course’s enrollment of 272 students were athletes. Members of 24 of the College’s 36 varsity athletic teams were enrolled in the course.

“Part of the reason I designed this course was that I had the sense that some athletes coming here to Dartmouth might have felt just a little bit overwhelmed or intimidated academically,” Balmer said. “I wanted to design a course that would appeal to their interests and allow them to have an early success in the classroom, and I’d hoped that they would be able to build on that success throughout their time at Dartmouth.”

Also,

Varsity athletics communication director Rick Bender said that he would not discuss disciplinary measures taken by coaches against specific players who were involved in the incident. ... .... Bender said that he is not aware of any students being barred from continued participation in varsity athletics.
“Coaches will use this as a teaching moment for their teams,” Bender said.

"The College will not officially comment on disciplinary measures until all proceedings have concluded, likely in mid-January."

NSDukeFan
01-09-2015, 08:13 PM
Dartmouth headline: Sixty-four students charged with honor code violations (http://thedartmouth.com/2015/01/07/sixty-four-students-charged-with-honor-code-violations/) due to cheating in a "Sports, Ethics and Religion" class.

From the article:


Also,


"The College will not officially comment on disciplinary measures until all proceedings have concluded, likely in mid-January."

Good to see that now that more of the allegations at UNC have come to light that Dartmouth will go on probation. Justice will be served.

MarkD83
01-09-2015, 08:19 PM
Another voice from the UNC faculty speaks: http://chapelboro.com/columns/the-commentators/long-past-time-unc-forfeit-games/
Margolis has been a co-author with Jay Smith in the past, so it's like it's a completely new faction, but it is pretty well written.

It's on chapelboro, but it's not even close to something Chansky would write.

That is a very well written and succinct response to all of the arguments that have been brought up by UNC "defenders". Is there a way to post that article permanently and prominently on the front door of the offices of every administrator and coach at UNC.

77devil
01-09-2015, 08:53 PM
Another voice from the UNC faculty speaks: http://chapelboro.com/columns/the-commentators/long-past-time-unc-forfeit-games/
Margolis has been a co-author with Jay Smith in the past, so it's like it's a completely new faction, but it is pretty well written.

It's on chapelboro, but it's not even close to something Chansky would write.

I'm guessing Lew is not on Bubba's Christmas card list.

sagegrouse
01-09-2015, 08:56 PM
That is a very well written and succinct response to all of the arguments that have been brought up by UNC "defenders". Is there a way to post that article permanently and prominently on the front door of the offices of every administrator and coach at UNC.

Here's a brief excerpt from Margolis's article:


UNC’s failure to forfeit the games involving players who maintained eligibility by taking fake classes is further evidence that Big Time revenue sports harm universities. The university’s motto, lux et libertas (“light and liberty”), is a powerful metaphor for the core value of honesty or integrity. Without honesty, the entire knowledge-producing architecture of universities collapses in a heap. Without honesty, the “unwavering commitment to excellence” expressed in UNC’s mission statement is meaningless. Taking the initiative to forfeit these tainted games would be an acknowledgment of the wrong-doing, and more importantly a strong statement from UNC leaders that the University’s educational mission supersedes wins and losses in sports.

Let’s be clear about the extent of the dishonesty uncovered in the Wainstein report. Football players were credited with nearly 1000 fake classes and men’s basketball players over 200 fake classes. The report estimated that the grades awarded for these fraudulent classes had a significant impact on eligibility. For example, the fake classes enabled football players and men’s basketball players to reach or maintain the necessary 2.0 grade point average in 25% and 14%, respectively, of the impacted semesters. These figures mean that for any given season teams were likely to have fielded players who were portrayed as academically eligible, but were in fact not.

77devil
01-09-2015, 08:58 PM
Dartmouth headline: Sixty-four students charged with honor code violations (http://thedartmouth.com/2015/01/07/sixty-four-students-charged-with-honor-code-violations/) due to cheating in a "Sports, Ethics and Religion" class.

From the article:


Also,


"The College will not officially comment on disciplinary measures until all proceedings have concluded, likely in mid-January."

Now I understand why UNC was so enamored with Carol Folt's Dartmouth experience.

devildeac
01-09-2015, 11:14 PM
Good to see that now that more of the allegations at UNC have come to light that Dartmouth will go on probation. Justice will be served.

Don't you mean Justise?;)

gumbomoop
01-10-2015, 12:48 AM
That is a very well written and succinct response to all of the arguments that have been brought up by UNC "defenders". Is there a way to post that article permanently and prominently on the front door of the offices of every administrator and coach at UNC.

Agree. Thorough, articulate, no-nonsense, unanswerable. UNC faculty would be wise to co-sign en masse, retroactively. Top administrators would be wise to follow Margolis's counsel, but it would take some courage.

Also, we owe big thanks to BigWayne for regularly linking to important articles. And thanks to other diligent posters who've provided links.

NSDukeFan
01-10-2015, 09:51 AM
Don't you mean Justise?;)

Hopefully Justise will be served tomorrow.

devildeac
01-10-2015, 10:27 AM
Hopefully Justise will be served tomorrow.

Not just(ise) tomorrow, either;).

OldPhiKap
01-10-2015, 11:42 AM
"No Justise, no threes"

BigWayne
01-13-2015, 06:38 PM
UNC is retaining some more high priced lawyers. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/13/4473722/unc-chapel-hill-hires-more-legal.html)

Fitzgerald and others with the Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom law firm will charge an hourly rate of $990 per partner and a minimum of $450 per associate until the university determines it no longer needs the firm’s services

“The firm is well-resourced to provide comprehensive advice and counsel on a wide range of related litigation matters, including what we anticipate will be very extensive pretrial discovery obligations.”

CameronBornAndBred
01-13-2015, 07:20 PM
UNC is retaining some more high priced lawyers. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/13/4473722/unc-chapel-hill-hires-more-legal.html)

Fitzgerald and others with the Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom law firm will charge an hourly rate of $990 per partner and a minimum of $450 per associate until the university determines it no longer needs the firm’s services.

Damn, that's better job security than working at a mortuary. And pretty much the same thing.

arnie
01-13-2015, 07:24 PM
UNC is retaining some more high priced lawyers. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/13/4473722/unc-chapel-hill-hires-more-legal.html)

Fitzgerald and others with the Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom law firm will charge an hourly rate of $990 per partner and a minimum of $450 per associate until the university determines it no longer needs the firm’s services

“The firm is well-resourced to provide comprehensive advice and counsel on a wide range of related litigation matters, including what we anticipate will be very extensive pretrial discovery obligations.”


Glad to hear Danny Meagher is on their team!

MarkD83
01-13-2015, 07:37 PM
I believe UNC had to turn in their response to the Southern Accreditation board. I wonder if hiring lawyers is related to that.

77devil
01-13-2015, 08:41 PM
I believe UNC had to turn in their response to the Southern Accreditation board. I wonder if hiring lawyers is related to that.

Doubtful. Accredidation is not a legal process. More likely gearing up for the lawsuits filled and to be filled.

Of course with UNC, who can be sure.

BigWayne
01-13-2015, 09:07 PM
I believe UNC had to turn in their response to the Southern Accreditation board. I wonder if hiring lawyers is related to that.

Yes, that was turned in (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/unc-responds-to-accrediting-agency) but it has not been released publicly until they can redact out the names of the personnel involved.

hudlow
01-14-2015, 11:55 AM
UNC is also facing a lawsuit claiming they used racial preference in determining admissions...

Chapel Hill is becoming a big ATM for attorneys....

Stray Gator
01-14-2015, 12:11 PM
UNC is also facing a lawsuit claiming they used racial preference in determining admissions...

Chapel Hill is becoming a big ATM for attorneys....

Or, as the managing partner of a large law firm I knew famously said of such a client, it's "like having a cow you can milk every day."

BigWayne
01-14-2015, 06:43 PM
I believe UNC had to turn in their response to the Southern Accreditation board. I wonder if hiring lawyers is related to that.

Supposed to be released to the public on Tuesday now.

Proof in the link for completeness, but don't bother clicking it. It's a bunch of BS platitudes from Carol Folt about how wonderful they all are.

http://www.unc.edu/campus-updates/message-from-chancellor-carol-l-folt-wecome-back/

BigWayne
01-15-2015, 03:31 AM
Something is going on with the Willingham/Smith book.

There is a N&O Story (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/15/4476900_book-details-unc-academic-athletic.html) that says the book is available online and will be in bookstores soon. However, their own website (http://paperclassinc.com/smithwillingham-book/) links to a page (https://potomac.presswarehouse.com/Books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=434801) at this minute that says online ordering is unavailable and hard copies are not available until March. Amazon shows it being released 3/15/15.

Seems like a mixup or else they are hurrying the release for some reason all of a sudden. Wonder if they got an inside look at the SACS response.

UrinalCake
01-15-2015, 07:56 AM
^ I believe there was some sort of gag order that prevented the media from talking about the book, that expired today. The release date is still in March. Gag order probably isn't the right term, but basically writers are now free to talk about it, so it will be fun to see what comes out.

stillcrazie
01-15-2015, 01:13 PM
I don't care if they want to brag about their team on facebook, but when they start mocking Duke for losing games when they have already lost 5, it's on. I just cannot believe the HUBRIS of some people, who will mock Duke while putting their head in the sand about the scandals that continue to come to light. It's unreal.

P.S. Next time someone calls Coach K "rat face," I am going to say, "Well, if all you have against him is his looks, you must think he's a pretty good coach."

Kedsy
01-15-2015, 01:32 PM
I don't care if they want to brag about their team on facebook, but when they start mocking Duke for losing games when they have already lost 5, it's on.

While I agree with you on your overall point, UNC has only lost 4 games this season. It looked like they were going to get loss #5, but they came back to beat Louisville by 1.

stillcrazie
01-15-2015, 01:41 PM
While I agree with you on your overall point, UNC has only lost 4 games this season. It looked like they were going to get loss #5, but they came back to beat Louisville by 1.

Right, I was counting pre-season accidentally.

devildeac
01-15-2015, 08:20 PM
Something is going on with the Willingham/Smith book.

There is a N&O Story (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/15/4476900_book-details-unc-academic-athletic.html) that says the book is available online and will be in bookstores soon. However, their own website (http://paperclassinc.com/smithwillingham-book/) links to a page (https://potomac.presswarehouse.com/Books/BookDetail.aspx?productID=434801) at this minute that says online ordering is unavailable and hard copies are not available until March. Amazon shows it being released 3/15/15.

Seems like a mixup or else they are hurrying the release for some reason all of a sudden. Wonder if they got an inside look at the SACS response.

Interesting quote from the article BigWayne linked:

"The athletes’ fellow classmates were fans, too, according to the book. A former AFAM student, now a history professor at Texas A&M, described how the setup was an open secret and students laughed about the fact that athletes weren’t expected to actually write papers.

Athletes were “nice guys” who came to class and handed out bags of Doritos they had been given in the dining hall."

BigWayne
01-16-2015, 03:19 PM
Tom Ross has been asked to leave by UNC BOG (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/16/4480765_ross-to-leave-unc-presidency.html)

"After a nearly two-hour closed session Friday, a joint statement from the board and president indicated the board wanted to begin the process “of leadership transition.”

BigWayne
01-16-2015, 06:35 PM
This is another insufferable pile of steaming excrement from Art Chansky. (http://chapelboro.com/columns/sports-notebook/arts-angle-dog-crowd/)

However, the comment section has an entertaining piece of writing that sums up why non-UNC folks are so upset about the scandal:

Matt Nicholson · Top Commenter
Do you ever tire of being a jackass?

Here you have an opportunity to praise your team for having the fortitude to withstand a furious run in a game that, honestly, both teams needed to win in a conference so stacked that 5, or even more, different schools have a legitimate shot at winning it. Instead Art, you criticize the crowd noise and insinuate the students, who are the engineers that will one day design and build the roads and bridges you drive on to get to your ivory tower (which they may have also designed and built), are so stupid they can't read. And still, after all these years, you wonder why EVERYONE hates UNC fans? We don't dislike you because you win. We dislike you because when you win, you are an insufferable chestpounding horses ***. When given the choice to be thankful for escaping with a close, hard fought win against a pretty decent team on the road, you chose what UNC fans have done for generations: Be an arrogant prick thumbing your nose at MooU. You would think 2 decades of documented cheating would perhaps provide a bit of humility. I guess that's too much to ask for. You, and UNC fans such as yourself (which is damn near all of them) have always been poor losers, but you're even worse winners. This column is Exhibit A.

Stay classy, Art.

weezie
01-16-2015, 06:56 PM
Marvelous! Just a terrific, well written take down.

bob blue devil
01-19-2015, 04:46 PM
Gene Chizik is now DC at UNC (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12193729/gene-chizik-hired-defensive-coordinator-north-carolina-tar-heels)

and the shameful decisions continue at unc...

jv001
01-19-2015, 04:51 PM
Gene Chizik is now DC at UNC (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12193729/gene-chizik-hired-defensive-coordinator-north-carolina-tar-heels)

and the shameful decisions continue at unc...

We shouldn't expect ESPN to tell the entire story on Chizik. I haven't heard much from them on the uncheaters academic struggles either. Isn't the president or CEO for ESPN a tarheel alum? GoDuke!

hudlow
01-19-2015, 05:20 PM
We shouldn't expect ESPN to tell the entire story on Chizik. I haven't heard much from them on the uncheaters academic struggles either. Isn't the president or CEO for ESPN a tarheel alum? GoDuke!

They did tell a story once.


http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9131624/auburn-tigers-coaches-bribed-players-altered-grades-broke-recruiting-rules-gene-chizik-according-report

porcophile
01-19-2015, 08:02 PM
Gene Chizik is now DC at UNC (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12193729/gene-chizik-hired-defensive-coordinator-north-carolina-tar-heels)

and the shameful decisions continue at unc...
I wouldn't have thought it possible to be more ashamed of the place. Now it sounds as if they may get the system president a football factory deserves.

jv001
01-19-2015, 09:40 PM
They did tell a story once.


http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9131624/auburn-tigers-coaches-bribed-players-altered-grades-broke-recruiting-rules-gene-chizik-according-report

Ha, yes they did the story on Chizcheat when he was head coach at Auburn but no mention of that mess in the announcement on his hiring at uncheat(like that better). GoDuke!

bob blue devil
01-19-2015, 10:24 PM
N&O article on the hiring (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/19/4488576_unc-confident-in-gene-chizik-despite.html?rh=1)


"Just like everybody, we vetted him completely and are very comfortable with where we’re at,” Fedora said of Chizik, who was accused of committing major NCAA violations at Auburn. “I mean, there were some unsubstantiated allegations out there about him and what’s happened in the past.”


didn't fedora mean to say, "and what's happened is in the past"? the carolina way, right?

JasonEvans
01-20-2015, 12:25 PM
Wouldn't it have been delightful if Fedora had said: "We vetted him and found nothing in his past that was inconsistent with the morals and values that are the foundation of athletics at UNC."

Cause that woulda been da truth!

-Jason

plimnko
01-20-2015, 05:50 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/-cheats-in-chapel-hill-a-google-maps-investigation/14371801/

BigWayne
01-20-2015, 05:58 PM
UNC's response to the SACS (https://oira.unc.edu/files/2015/01/UNC-Chapel-Hill-Report-to-SACSCOC-Redacted-for-Public-Release.pdf) is online now.

My quick summary of the contents. Didn't read every page.

1) Carolina (way they refer to themselves over and over in the document) loves SACS
2) Carolina is great.
3) Everything can be blamed on Debbie and Julius.
4) Carolina is great.
5) If only we had been able to interview Debbie and Julius before, we wouldn't have lied to SACS before.
6) Now that Wainstein was able to get info from Debbie and Julius, we know all the bad stuff and nobody still employed here does that bad stuff.
7) Aren't we just swell?
8) Nothing bad has happened since 2011 because we say so. At least not anywhere we looked or has come out online.
9) Did we mention how much Carolina loves SACS?
10) Please go away, we are so great we don't need you to worry about us anymore.

DukieInKansas
01-20-2015, 06:00 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/-cheats-in-chapel-hill-a-google-maps-investigation/14371801/

Even better is the description that comes up: "Famed for its healthcare & athletics programs, this is one of the oldest public schools in the U.S. - Google" Apparently, it isn't famous for it's academics. ;)

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-20-2015, 06:03 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/-cheats-in-chapel-hill-a-google-maps-investigation/14371801/
Priceless.
I tried it, too. It works!

chainsaw
01-20-2015, 07:01 PM
Works for me also (in Durham). I took the opportunity to suggest a new comment, "One of the worst scandals in NCAA history"
4651

DevilFalcon
01-21-2015, 01:58 AM
This search works in the triad as well.
For those who don't click the link above, just open up Google Maps and search for 'cheat'. The top result is very appropriate.

DukieInKansas
01-21-2015, 10:06 AM
Quoted from the front page article: "Carolina accepts full responsibility for the wrongdoing, has apologized repeatedly and forthrightly to the impacted students and alumni, and will continue to monitor previous reforms and institute additional measures, wherever needed, to ensure and enhance academic integrity. While Carolina continues to take these issues very seriously and without offering excuses, it is also critical to make it clear that the Wainstein investigation, like prior investigations, found no evidence of any academic improprieties occurring since the summer of 2011, and no evidence that these academic improprieties extended beyond courses in one department in the College of Arts and Sciences."

This just made me think of Roy talking in the 3rd person all the time. Does Carolina teach a course on that? If so, do you have to go to the class?

sagegrouse
01-21-2015, 10:28 AM
Quoted from the front page article: "Carolina accepts full responsibility for the wrongdoing, has apologized repeatedly and forthrightly to the impacted students and alumni, and will continue to monitor previous reforms and institute additional measures, wherever needed, to ensure and enhance academic integrity. While Carolina continues to take these issues very seriously and without offering excuses, it is also critical to make it clear that the Wainstein investigation, like prior investigations, found no evidence of any academic improprieties occurring since the summer of 2011, and no evidence that these academic improprieties extended beyond courses in one department in the College of Arts and Sciences."

This just made me think of Roy talking in the 3rd person all the time. Does Carolina teach a course on that? If so, do you have to go to the class?

Carolina? A bit of aggressive brand protection, I would say, to use in communications with an accrediting organization, which oversees many, many colleges with "Carolina" in their names: South Carolina (known throughout the Palmetto State as "Carolina), SC State, NC A&T, NCC, NC Wesleyan, even NC State -- plus all the other UNC's (Charlotte, Wilmington, Asheville).

I wonder how SACSOC addresses UNC? Probably as the University of North Carolina (UNC) the first time and then afterwards only as UNC, or maybe UNC-CH, where the CH can also stand for "CHeater." (Of course, UNC in Colorado is the University of Northern Colorado, which also sponsors widely listened to NPR broadcast sites in my home state.)

MChambers
01-21-2015, 10:30 AM
Carolina? A bit of aggressive brand protection, I would say, to use in communications with an accrediting organization, which oversees many, many colleges with "Carolina" in their names: South Carolina (known throughout the Palmetto State as "Carolina), SC State, NC A&T, NCC, NC Wesleyan, even NC State -- plus all the other UNC's (Charlotte, Wilmington, Asheville).

I wonder how SACSOC addresses UNC? Probably as the University of North Carolina (UNC) the first time and then afterwards only as UNC, or maybe UNC-CH, where the CH can also stand for "CHeater." (Of course, UNC in Colorado is the University of Northern Colorado, which also sponsors widely listened to NPR broadcast sites in my home state.)

What about the University of South Carolina Upstate?

sagegrouse
01-21-2015, 10:54 AM
What about the University of South Carolina Upstate?

Do you think USC "Upstairs" is trying to subtly outdo its downstate neighbor?

And, of course, Coastal Carolina, named "the chanticleers" surely after the Duke yearbook.

hudlow
01-21-2015, 11:09 AM
Don't forget The Carolina School of Broadcasting and Carolina School of Massage.

DukieInKansas
01-21-2015, 11:27 AM
Carolina? A bit of aggressive brand protection, I would say, to use in communications with an accrediting organization, which oversees many, many colleges with "Carolina" in their names: South Carolina (known throughout the Palmetto State as "Carolina), SC State, NC A&T, NCC, NC Wesleyan, even NC State -- plus all the other UNC's (Charlotte, Wilmington, Asheville).

I wonder how SACSOC addresses UNC? Probably as the University of North Carolina (UNC) the first time and then afterwards only as UNC, or maybe UNC-CH, where the CH can also stand for "CHeater." (Of course, UNC in Colorado is the University of Northern Colorado, which also sponsors widely listened to NPR broadcast sites in my home state.)

I could go with thinking of UNC as only the University of Northern Colorado. I followed the UNC Emeritus Professor of University Libraries in his quest for the perfect cinnamon roll.

PackMan97
01-21-2015, 04:37 PM
Don't get distracted.

The Martin report told you the fraud went back to '97. Then Weinstein said '94. This response to SACCS has the fraud going back to 1989.

It seems like every time someone forces UNC to dig deeper, they find even more fraud. Does anyone really believe this is an AFAM only problem?

A penny for your thoughts. We now have thousands of athletes across four different decades that took fraudulent classes to either keep them eligible or allow them more time to focus on their sport...thousands of athletes starting in the '80s, continuing into the 90's, exploding in the '00s before it all comes crashing down in the 10's.

What penalties has UNC self imposed since this fraud has come to light?

tbyers11
01-21-2015, 05:11 PM
Don't get distracted.

The Martin report told you the fraud went back to '97. Then Weinstein said '94. This response to SACCS has the fraud going back to 1989.

It seems like every time someone forces UNC to dig deeper, they find even more fraud. Does anyone really believe this is an AFAM only problem?

A penny for your thoughts. We now have thousands of athletes across four different decades that took fraudulent classes to either keep them eligible or allow them more time to focus on their sport...thousands of athletes starting in the '80s, continuing into the 90's, exploding in the '00s before it all comes crashing down in the 10's.

What penalties has UNC self imposed since this fraud has come to light?

This is really the sad part. No self-realization that they've screwed up since this has all come out. Isolate, blame, stick head in sand, repeat ad nauseum seems to be the mantra.

Perhaps, the Matt Doherty years were kind of a subconscious self-imposed punishment and they've figured that was good enough ;)

OldPhiKap
01-21-2015, 05:41 PM
What penalties has UNC self imposed since this fraud has come to light?


This is really the sad part.

And I hope this is what hangs them with the NCAA. Utterly remorseless, except about the whole "getting caught" thing.

Add shameless and brazen too -- hiring Chizik when Auburn had one of the highest-profile pay-to-play incidents in recent memory.

UNC athletics is a smarmy festering pustule of putrid scumbaggery. "The Carolina Way"

Furniture
01-21-2015, 11:50 PM
The scandal doesn't seem to be affecting the attractiveness of UNC to many young people. This year is another record for applicants (as was Duke) with almost 32k applicants.
http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/blog/morning-edition/2015/01/nearly-32k-apply-to-unc-chapel-hill-nc.html

BD80
01-22-2015, 12:04 AM
The scandal doesn't seem to be affecting the attractiveness of UNC to many young people. This year is another record for applicants (as was Duke) with almost 32k applicants.
http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/blog/morning-edition/2015/01/nearly-32k-apply-to-unc-chapel-hill-nc.html

You shouldn't be surprised, unc is the place where you can get a degree without ever going to class!

kcduke75
01-22-2015, 01:12 AM
Quoted from the front page article: " . . . it is also critical to make it clear that the Wainstein investigation, like prior investigations, found . . . no evidence that these academic improprieties extended beyond courses in one department in the College of Arts and Sciences."

The scope of the two investigations was limited to AFAM and they only found problems in AFAM.

Makes sense to me!

Wish someone such as PackPride could find out if "Communications" or other majors were also part of the cesspool.

porcophile
01-22-2015, 09:21 AM
The scope of the two investigations was limited to AFAM and they only found problems in AFAM.

Makes sense to me!

Wish someone such as PackPride could find out if "Communications" or other majors were also part of the cesspool.

Jan Boxill "taught" her 160 independent "study" courses in the philosophy department. There's also an email in the Wainstein Report appendix that implicates a professor in the exercise and sports science department. There may be more in, for instance, the communications department. Plenty of other professors in other departments were willing to oblige the athletic department with easy grades, but that is a way in which "everybody does it."

ancienteagle
01-22-2015, 09:29 AM
Don't forget The Carolina School of Broadcasting and Carolina School of Massage.

Nor the UNC School of Tooth Dentistry and Sheet Metal Work.

sagegrouse
01-22-2015, 10:51 AM
Jan Boxill "taught" her 160 independent "study" courses in the philosophy department. There's also an email in the Wainstein Report appendix that implicates a professor in the exercise and sports science department. There may be more in, for instance, the communications department. Plenty of other professors in other departments were willing to oblige the athletic department with easy grades, but that is a way in which "everybody does it."

There's a bit of a gulf between AFAM and the other departments, in that they were entirely carried out by Debbie Crowder, who was an administrative assistant and not in any way a member of the faculty (although she forged some signatures).

alteran
01-22-2015, 11:35 AM
The scope of the two investigations was limited to AFAM and they only found problems in AFAM.

Makes sense to me!

Wish someone such as PackPride could find out if "Communications" or other majors were also part of the cesspool.

Actually, the scope was limited to AFAM in both inquiries and they STILL found stuff outside of AFAM.

gumbomoop
01-22-2015, 12:16 PM
Actually, the scope was limited to AFAM in both inquiries and they STILL found stuff outside of AFAM.

Very important point. I'm a little surprised UNC was so bold as to be factually inaccurate in its SACS response.

I do wonder whether all those Boxill independent studies [using both words very loosely] were actually listed in Philosophy. I also wonder whether any of her colleagues in Philosophy ever thought, privately, "Geez, Jan, what the hell are you doing?" Or maybe her sham courses were always added after the beginning of the semester, and maybe were never actually listed at all.

Most of all, now, I wonder how a maybe-awakened UNC faculty will view Folt's approach. I'll guess some will not be amused. Don't know how many or how unhappy, but from a distance, I'd say Folt is playing with fire.

BigWayne
01-22-2015, 04:59 PM
UNC sued by Rashanda McCants and Devon Ramsey. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/22/4496367/unc-faces-new-class-action-lawsuit.html) It's a class action suit filed for them by the same lawyer as the Ed O'Bannon case.

"The NCAA is also listed as a defendant in the lawsuit, which alleges the NCAA and UNC’s “abject failure to safeguard and provide a meaningful education to scholarship athletes who agreed to attend UNC – and take the field – in exchange for academically sound instruction.”

I wonder if this will be enough to get the NCAA to turn on UNC.

UNC had to know this was coming when they hired the latest set of high priced lawyers.

Duvall
01-22-2015, 05:05 PM
UNC sued by Rashanda McCants and Devon Ramsey. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/22/4496367/unc-faces-new-class-action-lawsuit.html) It's a class action suit filed for them by the same lawyer as the Ed O'Bannon case.

"The NCAA is also listed as a defendant in the lawsuit, which alleges the NCAA and UNC’s “abject failure to safeguard and provide a meaningful education to scholarship athletes who agreed to attend UNC – and take the field – in exchange for academically sound instruction.”

I wonder if this will be enough to get the NCAA to turn on UNC.

Or the opposite - now the NCAA has a disincentive to find any wrongdoing at UNC.

PackMan97
01-22-2015, 05:06 PM
UNC sued by Rashanda McCants and Devon Ramsey. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/22/4496367/unc-faces-new-class-action-lawsuit.html) It's a class action suit filed for them by the same lawyer as the Ed O'Bannon case.

"The NCAA is also listed as a defendant in the lawsuit, which alleges the NCAA and UNC’s “abject failure to safeguard and provide a meaningful education to scholarship athletes who agreed to attend UNC – and take the field – in exchange for academically sound instruction.”

I wonder if this will be enough to get the NCAA to turn on UNC.

UNC had to know this was coming when they hired the latest set of high priced lawyers.

This is why I had thought the NCAA would have dropped the hammer on UNC during the O'Bannon case with the rational, "See this is what we do to schools that don't hold up the academic portion of the deal".

BD80
01-22-2015, 06:24 PM
UNC sued by Rashanda McCants and Devon Ramsey. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/22/4496367/unc-faces-new-class-action-lawsuit.html) It's a class action suit filed for them by the same lawyer as the Ed O'Bannon case.

"The NCAA is also listed as a defendant in the lawsuit, which alleges the NCAA and UNC’s “abject failure to safeguard and provide a meaningful education to scholarship athletes who agreed to attend UNC – and take the field – in exchange for academically sound instruction.”

I wonder if this will be enough to get the NCAA to turn on UNC.

UNC had to know this was coming when they hired the latest set of high priced lawyers.

Discovery. Could uncover the whole mess.

Of course, unc has probably had the shredders running non-stop for years now.

BigWayne
01-22-2015, 08:41 PM
Actual filing document for the lawsuit. (http://www.cbssports.com/images/blogs/Hausfeld-complaint.pdf)

Has a pretty detailed rundown of a lot of the incriminating stuff found in the Wainstein addendums, spelling it out in a way that is easier to understand than just reading through the stuff Wainstein released.

JasonEvans
01-22-2015, 08:48 PM
Or the opposite - now the NCAA has a disincentive to find any wrongdoing at UNC.

I think the NCAA does the exact opposite, Duvall. They now need to hammer Carolina as hard as they can.

It is as simple as this-- Does the NCAA want to stand hand-in-hand with UNC in this mess as a co-defendant who did nothing to punish Carolina... or does the NCAA want to be able to say, "we find this behavior abhorrent and this is not something we would ever allow or expect to happen. There is no way you can lump us in with them!" Clearly, the NCAA is going to want to argue the latter. And there is no better way to demonstrate that than to whack Carolina with serious sanctions.

Minor (or no) penalties would indicate the NCAA finds nothing wrong with what Carolina did. That's certainly what a plaintiff lawyer would argue. But, hit em hard and it is easier for the NCAA's lawyers to say, "See all the championships we stripped, see all the scholarships we took away, see how we banned them from the post-season for several years; this is proof that we did not know and do not approve of what they did."

-Jason "oooooh, I can't wait for Roy to be deposed!! Heck, I can't wait for Swofford to be deposed!" Evans

JasonEvans
01-22-2015, 08:52 PM
Of course, unc has probably had the shredders running non-stop for years now.

True, but shredders only work on documents. It is amazing what the human brain can retain and recount when a hand is placed on a bible. It only takes one person of conscience to bring a whole lot of this stuff crashing down. And you know everyone who gets deposed is going to be told by their lawyer, "Look at what happened to Martha Stewart. You tell the truth up there or you could go to jail."

-Jason "this was inevitable -- though I'm pleased to see a lawyer of such pedigree behind it and am glad to see the NCAA as a co-defendant" Evans

moonpie23
01-22-2015, 09:09 PM
"discovery" .........


time for the popcorn....

JasonEvans
01-22-2015, 09:14 PM
"discovery" .........


time for the popcorn....

A fellow Duke-loving friend of mine just sent me the following...
http://i.imgur.com/rj59FUv.gif

-Jason "me like!" Evans

OldPhiKap
01-23-2015, 07:21 AM
True, but shredders only work on documents. It is amazing what the human brain can retain and recount when a hand is placed on a bible. It only takes one person of conscience to bring a whole lot of this stuff crashing down. And you know everyone who gets deposed is going to be told by their lawyer, "Look at what happened to Martha Stewart. You tell the truth up there or you could go to jail."

-Jason "this was inevitable -- though I'm pleased to see a lawyer of such pedigree behind it and am glad to see the NCAA as a co-defendant" Evans

Emails never go away, if you get ahold of stored back-ups or the hard drive of either the sender or receiver.

OldPhiKap
01-23-2015, 07:40 AM
Actual filing document for the lawsuit. (http://www.cbssports.com/images/blogs/Hausfeld-complaint.pdf)

Has a pretty detailed rundown of a lot of the incriminating stuff found in the Wainstein addendums, spelling it out in a way that is easier to understand than just reading through the stuff Wainstein released.

Just take a look at paragraph 185 if you want to really be stunned. Wow.

I assume those came from the Wainstein report?

And question for NC lawyers -- in state court, can you file a motion to dismiss in lieu of an answer?

I also wonder if Rashanda McCants already lived in Durham, or moved there to defeat diversity removal to Federal court and to try to get venue in Durham.

Great find, Big Wayne, thanks!

sagegrouse
01-23-2015, 08:31 AM
Just take a look at paragraph 185 if you want to really be stunned. Wow.

Great find, Big Wayne, thanks!

So I say to myself, "OldPhiKap is getting lazy. Couldn't he just copy a single paragraph out of the filing document to save us some clicks and scrolls?"

Well, it is 13 pages, single-spaced of fraudulent courses. You're right: wow!

TampaDuke
01-23-2015, 09:03 AM
And question for NC lawyers -- in state court, can you file a motion to dismiss in lieu of an answer?

Assuming that UNC has the option to file a motion to dismiss, I would imagine that the critical issue -- whether agreeing to play sports under a scholarship constitutes a legally-enforceable implied contract to receive a meaningful education -- will be litigated early on and decided within the next few months (at least at the trial court level). If the court side's with the plaintiffs on that issue, oh boy things will get interesting for the NCAA and colleges across the country!

It'll also be interesting to see whether the plaintiffs can establish that the NCAA has a fiduciary responsibility to protect student athletes from their own colleges. I imagine the NCAA will dispute that premise, but their actions in cases like the Penn State matter may come back to bite them.

OldPhiKap
01-23-2015, 09:15 AM
So I say to myself, "OldPhiKap is getting lazy. Couldn't he just copy a single paragraph out of the filing document to save us some clicks and scrolls?"

Well, it is 13 pages, single-spaced of fraudulent courses. You're right: wow!

Well, I AM getting lazy. But in this case, I tried to cut and paste but ipad kept saying no. Literally too big to cut and paste on my machine. (and for Jimsumner, I use "literally" advisedly here).


Assuming that UNC has the option to file a motion to dismiss, I would imagine that the critical issue -- whether agreeing to play sports under a scholarship constitutes a legally-enforceable implied contract to receive a meaningful education -- will be litigated early on and decided within the next few months (at least at the trial court level). If the court side's with the plaintiffs on that issue, oh boy things will get interesting for the NCAA and colleges across the country!

It'll also be interesting to see whether the plaintiffs can establish that the NCAA has a fiduciary responsibility to protect student athletes from their own colleges. I imagine the NCAA will dispute that premise, but their actions in cases like the Penn State matter may come back to bite them.

If I were defending, I would file a motion to dismiss in lieu of an answer on whatever legitimate basis I could. Without knowing the substantive law, any class action is subject to procedural attack on the grounds of commonality, typicality, etc. (lawyerese for "the named plaintiff's claims must be very similar to everyone that (s)he purports to represent, so that the resolution of his/her claim fairly resolves the claims of each class member"). There is always room for legitimate debate there.

But to the point I am trying to get to -- answering this thing will be a major pain and a major dodge job. Really would LOVE to see an answer filed to this. But if the defendants have an option to move to dismiss first on legal grounds, the answer date may be a long way off.

I don't see any grounds for removal here but only skimmed over my Wheaties this morning. Which would mean that it stays in state court, although there probably will be a motion to move the venue.

Monmouth77
01-23-2015, 09:44 AM
Well, I AM getting lazy. But in this case, I tried to cut and paste but ipad kept saying no. Literally too big to cut and paste on my machine. (and for Jimsumner, I use "literally" advisedly here).



If I were defending, I would file a motion to dismiss in lieu of an answer on whatever legitimate basis I could. Without knowing the substantive law, any class action is subject to procedural attack on the grounds of commonality, typicality, etc. (lawyerese for "the named plaintiff's claims must be very similar to everyone that (s)he purports to represent, so that the resolution of his/her claim fairly resolves the claims of each class member"). There is always room for legitimate debate there.

But to the point I am trying to get to -- answering this thing will be a major pain and a major dodge job. Really would LOVE to see an answer filed to this. But if the defendants have an option to move to dismiss first on legal grounds, the answer date may be a long way off.
I don't see any grounds for removal here but only skimmed over my Wheaties this morning. Which would mean that it stays in state court, although there probably will be a motion to move the venue.

I agree with both parts of the bolded statements above. Carolina will move to dismiss on every conceivable ground, and for reasons others have mentioned may have some colorable arguments. And it will probably be a long time before we see an Answer.

But answering will be tough and the results entertaining if nothing else. Usually when you have allegations rooted in a document (like the Wainstein report here), the defendant answers by responding that the allegations are paraphrasing a document, admitting that the document says what it says, and otherwise denying the allegations. Here, you probably have a few paragraphs where the plaintiffs have characterized the Wainstein report to say something much more directly than the report itself does, and so the defense will have to choose whether to deny that more direct statement or not.

In the scheme of a litigation, answers can be kind of meaningless. But with this much press attention, whatever they say will be magnified. Cue Steven Colbert and the popcorn (but not for maybe a year or more).

devildeac
01-23-2015, 09:50 AM
So I say to myself, "OldPhiKap is getting lazy. Couldn't he just copy a single paragraph out of the filing document to save us some clicks and scrolls?"

Well, it is 13 pages, single-spaced of fraudulent courses. You're right: wow!

Here's Paragraph 185 which introduces the next (almost) 13 pages listing all the hundreds and hundreds (and maybe a few more hundreds) of fraudulent classes:

"185. From 1999 to 2011—at the encouragement and instruction of UNC athletic staff,
faculty, academic-support counselors, and administrators—UNC football players enrolled in 963
AFAM paper classes; UNC men’s basketball players enrolled in 226 AFAM paper classes; UNC
women’s basketball players enrolled in 114 AFAM paper classes.; and numerous other UNC
student-athletes took many more such courses—all with no class attendance or meaningful
faculty involvement. Those statistics do not include the number of student-athletes who took
AFAM paper classes designed by Crowder and designated as “independent studies” though they
had no faculty involvement. UNC’s academically unsound courses during the Class Period
included but were not necessarily limited to:"

Holy @#$%

JasonEvans
01-23-2015, 09:59 AM
Some of the most interesting stuff comes in the paragraphs that immediately follow 185, which get into the NCAA's role in all this.


186. During the Class Period, the NCAA knew that academic fraud—of the sort
occurring at UNC—was rampant among its members, yet it failed to develop, adopt, and
implement adequate monitoring mechanisms to detect whether member schools were providing
academically unsound classes to student-athletes—and stop any such occurrences.

187. For example, during the Class Period, the NCAA did not appropriately
investigate:


a. The educational integrity of member-school courses in which student-athletes
were enrolled;
b. The proportion of student-athletes, by sport, enrolled in certain member-school
courses, including non-traditional courses such as independent studies, compared
to the proportion of non-athletes;
c. The proportion of student-athletes, by sport, pursuing particular majors at member
schools, compared to the proportion of non-athletes;
d. The grades student-athletes were receiving, by sport, in member-school courses in
which they were clustered, compared to the grades of non-athletes in those
courses;
e. The descriptions, academic requirements, and time commitments associated with
member-school courses taken by student-athletes;
f. Independent studies and other non-traditional courses in which student athletes
were clustered that were taught by the same instructor; or
g. Member-school self-reporting to verify its accuracy and thoroughness.

188. In addition to failing to implement adequate monitoring mechanisms during the
Class Period, the NCAA also failed to devote sufficient resources to enforce its rules prohibiting
academic fraud—despite its oft-repeated rhetorical commitment to academic integrity. For
example, the NCAA committed only approximately 1-2% of its total budget to enforcement
during the Class Period. Likewise, the NCAA employed only about 40 investigators during the
Class Period, many of whom, like its overall administrative staff, were former student-athletes or
former NCAA coaches, and few of whom had any formal investigative background or
experience.

-Jason "interesting argument, though the allegation that this kind of thing is widespread may be tough to prove" Evans

BigWayne
01-23-2015, 11:47 AM
Having been reminded of the details of the class scandal by paragraph 185 and other recent things I have seen, I think the most egregious part of this revolves around the Swahili 403 class. It seems most of the requirements for a degree at UNC (and probably a lot of other liberal arts schools) can be satisfied by a weakly structured major department such as AFAM or Communications at UNC and cherry picking light and introductory courses from other departments. The hard requirement they seem to have trouble with is the foreign language one. UNC requires the "3" level to be completed, which apparently requires a paper to be written in the foreign language. That they went so far as to set up sections of this course that allowed the paper to be written in English is just indefensible. This also seems to be the area where they had the most conflict with the professor involved, Bwana Mutima, who apparently wasn't 100% on board withe the program. If I was one of these plaintiffs, I would like to try to get Bwana on the stand.

Trinity_93
01-23-2015, 01:41 PM
If I was one of these plaintiffs, I would like to try to get Bwana on the stand.

You mean Hansborough?

Tom B.
01-23-2015, 01:52 PM
Interesting that Rashad McCants isn't a named plaintiff, given how outspoken he's been. Given Rashad's, um....mercurial history, I wonder if Hausfeld felt that Rashad wouldn't necessarily make the best or most reliable class rep/witness.

94duke
01-23-2015, 03:12 PM
"NCAA investigating 20 schools for academic misconduct"


The timing is right to dedicate more resources to this

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/21/ncaa-investigation-academic-misconduct

BD80
01-23-2015, 03:32 PM
"NCAA investigating 20 schools for academic misconduct"



http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/21/ncaa-investigation-academic-misconduct

unc + 19 others.

I'll bet those other 19 schools are REAL nervous, they're going to bear the brunt of unc's punishment.

DUKIECB
01-23-2015, 03:34 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already in another thread but if it has I haven't seen it.

Go to google maps and type in Cheat, NC

DukieInKansas
01-23-2015, 03:36 PM
unc + 19 others.

I'll bet those other 19 schools are REAL nervous, they're going to bear the brunt of unc's punishment.

Cleveland State better hope they aren't on the list.

elvis14
01-23-2015, 03:39 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already in another thread but if it has I haven't seen it.

Go to google maps and type in Cheat, NC

It's been covered in the UNC cheating main thread....and it's hilarious!

BD80
01-23-2015, 03:49 PM
So this thread contains no original thought and is essentially a copy of another thread?

Sounds like a thread on unc athletes' academic efforts.

BigWayne
01-23-2015, 06:10 PM
Interesting analysis of the impact of the McCants lawsuit at SI here. (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/01/06/rashanda-mccants-unc-paper-classes-lawsuit)

States among other things:


Discovery threat here is more concerning than O'Bannon case to professors and admins and could spur settlement.
Talks about threats to the "contract" premise that could get it dismissed early, but states O'Bannon as precedent it could get past this hurdle.
Talks about how NCAA now has possible conflict of interest that could prevent action against UNC by NCAA.

-jk
01-23-2015, 06:21 PM
As I see it (and, of course, IANAL - just my wife and ex are), by being a class action, if "class" is conferred, a settlement can get really, really, expensive.

(Heh)

-jk

porcophile
01-23-2015, 06:24 PM
4656
"discovery" .........


time for the popcorn....

mpj96
01-23-2015, 08:37 PM
I think the NCAA does the exact opposite, Duvall. They now need to hammer Carolina as hard as they can.

It is as simple as this-- Does the NCAA want to stand hand-in-hand with UNC in this mess as a co-defendant who did nothing to punish Carolina... or does the NCAA want to be able to say, "we find this behavior abhorrent and this is not something we would ever allow or expect to happen. There is no way you can lump us in with them!" Clearly, the NCAA is going to want to argue the latter. And there is no better way to demonstrate that than to whack Carolina with serious sanctions.

Minor (or no) penalties would indicate the NCAA finds nothing wrong with what Carolina did. That's certainly what a plaintiff lawyer would argue. But, hit em hard and it is easier for the NCAA's lawyers to say, "See all the championships we stripped, see all the scholarships we took away, see how we banned them from the post-season for several years; this is proof that we did not know and do not approve of what they did."

-Jason "oooooh, I can't wait for Roy to be deposed!! Heck, I can't wait for Swofford to be deposed!" Evans

You may be right Jason, but your prediction runs counter to typical defense attorney axiom: hang together or hang separately.

BigWayne
01-25-2015, 03:55 AM
Smith/Willingham have a new piece up. (http://paperclassinc.com/taking-independent-independent-study/)

It's mostly about how UNC perverted the normal university ideal of independent studies to maintain eligibility.
Notable in specifically calling out other depts. than just AFAM.

"In the parallel AFRI/AFAM curriculum supervised by Debby Crowder, but also in other departments across the College of Arts and Sciences–Philosophy, Geography, Communications, Exercise and Sport Science, French, and others–faculty and administrators seemed always ready to “help” athletes with the scheduling of requested independent study classes."

Reading this reminded me of the time at Duke me and a buddy got the great idea of taking an independent study class. The allure to us was it would be one less class to have to go to each week. However, when we went to talk to the professor offering it, we found it was way more work than a regular class. This is one of the main points made in this piece, that independent study classes when used properly are more work and more difficult than a regular class.

Henderson
01-25-2015, 09:56 AM
You may be right Jason, but your prediction runs counter to typical defense attorney axiom: hang together or hang separately.

Another axiom is if you can get your client out by pointing the finger at another defendant, you do it. Cross-claims between defendants are not that unusual. Neither are deals with the plaintiffs that dismiss one defendant in exchange for cooperation against another defendant. Remember that one's discovery rights are greater against a party-opponent than against a non-party, which sometimes militates in favor of naming someone as a defendant just to get that discovery advantage.

In this case, there is the risky strategy of naming both UNC and the NCAA, possibly throwing them into a joint defense agreement to "hang together." I'd love to have been the fly on that wall when the plaintiffs' lawyers discussed their thinking there. Lots of considerations there. But I wouldn't assume that these co-defendants will hunker down as a team.

French? As a spurious independent study? I wonder what those independant study papers were about. "French Girls -- Hot? -- 100 words." Or "French Bread -- Too Crusty for Peanut Butter Toast? 100 words."

westwall
01-25-2015, 10:38 AM
Reading this reminded me of the time at Duke me and a buddy got the great idea of taking an independent study class. .

Was that an English Grammar class??

OldPhiKap
01-25-2015, 11:13 AM
Another axiom is if you can get your client out by pointing the finger at another defendant, you do it. Cross-claims between defendants are not that unusual. Neither are deals with the plaintiffs that dismiss one defendant in exchange for cooperation against another defendant. Remember that one's discovery rights are greater against a party-opponent than against a non-party, which sometimes militates in favor of naming someone as a defendant just to get that discovery advantage.

In this case, there is the risky strategy of naming both UNC and the NCAA, possibly throwing them into a joint defense agreement to "hang together." I'd love to have been the fly on that wall when the plaintiffs' lawyers discussed their thinking there. Lots of considerations there. But I wouldn't assume that these co-defendants will hunker down as a team.



Let's talk that through.

The claim is that the NCAA failed to provide proper oversight. Their theoretical substantive defenses could be:

1. We did proper oversight, but UNC concealed things from us -- most likely defense I think, throw UNC under the bus. Poetic justice.
2. Plaintiff, it never happened -- I.e. Hang together; hard defense in light of the Wainstein Report.
3. Everything that happened is okay, so we did our job -- don't see this as being very viable.
4. Plaintiff, you participated knowingly and therefore do not have a claim -- allows the defendants to stick together, but runs counter to mission and obligations of both institutions.

Of course, there are a bunch of procedural issues (statute of limitations, standing, proper remedies, etc) that they may have a common interest. But my first blush says that, substantively, the NCAA will say that if there are problems here it is because UNC hid them. That seems to be the best strategic defense; it is amply supported by the facts if Wainstein is right; and it lets them avoid wearing the villain hat. "We rely on the integrity of our member institutions, and we are victims too. We are shocked and appalled that there is gambling at Rick's - er, cheating at UNC."

Ultrarunner
01-25-2015, 11:24 AM
Was that an English Grammar class??

Colloquial speech, used often in a gathering of friends, does not necessarily conform to the standards set forth in the Chicago Manual of Style or those in my tattered (and frequently ignored) Prentice Hall grammar book.

OldPhiKap
01-25-2015, 11:32 AM
Colloquial speech, used often in a gathering of friends, does not necessarily conform to the standards set forth in the Chicago Manual of Style or those in my tattered (and frequently ignored) Prentice Hall grammar book.

Simon and Garfunkel informed us that it was "me and Julio down by the school yard"

So, I place the blame for the utter collapse of proper grammar on those damn, filthy hippies.

Don't even get me started on the fact that silence is the absence of sound, not a sound itself.

Ultrarunner
01-25-2015, 11:34 AM
Simon and Garfunkel informed us that it was "me and Julio down by the school yard"

So, I place the blame for the utter collapse of proper grammar on those damn, filthy hippies.

Don't even get me started on the fact that silence is the absence of sound, not a sound itself.

Tried to spork you, wouldn't let me. Thanks for the chuckle this morning.

hudlow
01-25-2015, 11:38 AM
Simon and Garfunkel informed us that it was "me and Julio down by the school yard"

So, I place the blame for the utter collapse of proper grammar on those damn, filthy hippies.

Don't even get me started on the fact that silence is the absence of sound, not a sound itself.

Don't bogart that joint my friend, hand it over to me.

gumbomoop
01-25-2015, 11:58 AM
Smith/Willingham have a new piece up. (http://paperclassinc.com/taking-independent-independent-study/)

It's mostly about how UNC perverted the normal university ideal of independent studies to maintain eligibility.
Notable in specifically calling out other depts. than just AFAM.

"In the parallel AFRI/AFAM curriculum supervised by Debby Crowder, but also in other departments across the College of Arts and Sciences–Philosophy, Geography, Communications, Exercise and Sport Science, French, and others–faculty and administrators seemed always ready to “help” athletes with the scheduling of requested independent study classes."

I'll repeat a prior comment. It surprises me that Folt stated in her SACS response that the problem was limited to AFAM. It wasn't. Folt made an assertion that is inaccurate in a substantial way. I assume that at least some UNC faculty would call her statement a lie. She's playing with fire, because Smith, Willingham, Kane, and SACS officials can read. Folt is not trustworthy, not worthy of leadership in a university hoping to reclaim its historic excellence.

Thanks again to BigWayne for heads up on good articles.

BigWayne
01-25-2015, 08:10 PM
I'll repeat a prior comment. It surprises me that Folt stated in her SACS response that the problem was limited to AFAM. It wasn't. Folt made an assertion that is inaccurate in a substantial way. I assume that at least some UNC faculty would call her statement a lie. She's playing with fire, because Smith, Willingham, Kane, and SACS officials can read. Folt is not trustworthy, not worthy of leadership in a university hoping to reclaim its historic excellence.

Thanks again to BigWayne for heads up on good articles.

I was surprised by that as well. There is enough smoke at this point on the other departments that it seems pretty narrow minded to keep sticking to the AFAM only argument. Of course, if they don't stick to that, then you can expect SACS' response would be to ask for a full investigation of the other departments, which you know UNC does not want. Folt and crew must just be praying that SACS is unwilling to invest the time and energy that would be required to call their bluff.

BigWayne
01-26-2015, 06:26 PM
Well there is at least one Chapel Hill resident that is not afraid to call out the emperor. Daily Tar Heel column. (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/column-uncs-choice-to-take-a-chance-on-chizik-shows-no-sign-of-change)

"Chizik has not been found guilty of any of the charges levied against him. But sweet sassy molassy, there have been a lot of charges levied against him. Chizik and his staff have been accused of paying players not to enter the NFL draft, improper recruiting, and — the icing on the tainted cake — fudging grades to keep players academically eligible."

devildeac
01-26-2015, 06:31 PM
Well there is at least one Chapel Hill resident that is not afraid to call out the emperor. Daily Tar Heel column. (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/column-uncs-choice-to-take-a-chance-on-chizik-shows-no-sign-of-change)

"Chizik has not been found guilty of any of the charges levied against him. But sweet sassy molassy, there have been a lot of charges levied against him. Chizik and his staff have been accused of paying players not to enter the NFL draft, improper recruiting, and — the icing on the tainted cake — fudging grades to keep players academically eligible."

Like other posters have already stated (IIRC) that it looks like the perfect fit/hire:rolleyes:;).

CameronBornAndBred
01-27-2015, 01:31 PM
Well there is at least one Chapel Hill resident that is not afraid to call out the emperor. Daily Tar Heel column. (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/column-uncs-choice-to-take-a-chance-on-chizik-shows-no-sign-of-change)

"Chizik has not been found guilty of any of the charges levied against him. But sweet sassy molassy, there have been a lot of charges levied against him. Chizik and his staff have been accused of paying players not to enter the NFL draft, improper recruiting, and — the icing on the tainted cake — fudging grades to keep players academically eligible."
I'm totally going to use the phrase "sweet sassy molassy" the next time I debate someone.

BD80
01-27-2015, 03:17 PM
I'm totally going to use the phrase "sweet sassy molassy" the next time I debate someone.

Wasn't that Tami Hansbrough's nickname in chapel hill? She sure knew how to stroke a donor.

dpslaw
01-27-2015, 03:37 PM
Sweet sassy molassy, you know he know!

Tom B.
01-27-2015, 05:42 PM
For your viewing pleasure....

Sweet sassy molassy! (https://screen.yahoo.com/sports-center-ray-romano-000000679.html)

jv001
01-27-2015, 06:11 PM
For your viewing pleasure....

Sweet sassy molassy! (https://screen.yahoo.com/sports-center-ray-romano-000000679.html)

Funnyyyyyyyy. Thanks for the video. GoDuke!

martydoesntfoul
01-28-2015, 03:54 AM
Well there is at least one Chapel Hill resident that is not afraid to call out the emperor. Daily Tar Heel column. (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/column-uncs-choice-to-take-a-chance-on-chizik-shows-no-sign-of-change)

"Chizik has not been found guilty of any of the charges levied against him. But sweet sassy molassy, there have been a lot of charges levied against him. Chizik and his staff have been accused of paying players not to enter the NFL draft, improper recruiting, and — the icing on the tainted cake — fudging grades to keep players academically eligible."

It actually gets better. The Cheats also just announced the appointment of John Papuchis to the defensive staff. One of the commenters to the article noted that Papuchis was caught up in some controversy during his time at Kansas. See his bio in below link.

http://m.journalstar.com/sports/huskers/football/pelini-names-of-full-time-assistants/article_2d269a4b-cab1-5d06-bae1-f7ea8b6e55d3.html?mobile_touch=true

'Papuchis and fellow graduate assistant Mike Burns were drawn into internal and NCAA investigations for their involvement in improperly trying to help prospective JC transfers gain eligibility for the 2003 season. Burns was found by the NCAA to have committed academic fraud. Papuchis was not penalized.'

You simply cannot make this stuff up.

BD80
01-28-2015, 08:28 AM
It actually gets better. The Cheats also just announced the appointment of John Papuchis to the defensive staff. One of the commenters to the article noted that Papuchis was caught up in some controversy during his time at Kansas. See his bio in below link.

http://m.journalstar.com/sports/huskers/football/pelini-names-of-full-time-assistants/article_2d269a4b-cab1-5d06-bae1-f7ea8b6e55d3.html?mobile_touch=true

'Papuchis and fellow graduate assistant Mike Burns were drawn into internal and NCAA investigations for their involvement in improperly trying to help prospective JC transfers gain eligibility for the 2003 season. Burns was found by the NCAA to have committed academic fraud. Papuchis was not penalized.'

You simply cannot make this stuff up.

I hear Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong and Alex Rodriquez are the final three candidates for the new unc director of nutritional supplements for the athletic department.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-28-2015, 08:51 AM
It actually gets better. The Cheats also just announced the appointment of John Papuchis to the defensive staff. One of the commenters to the article noted that Papuchis was caught up in some controversy during his time at Kansas. See his bio in below link.

http://m.journalstar.com/sports/huskers/football/pelini-names-of-full-time-assistants/article_2d269a4b-cab1-5d06-bae1-f7ea8b6e55d3.html?mobile_touch=true

'Papuchis and fellow graduate assistant Mike Burns were drawn into internal and NCAA investigations for their involvement in improperly trying to help prospective JC transfers gain eligibility for the 2003 season. Burns was found by the NCAA to have committed academic fraud. Papuchis was not penalized.'

You simply cannot make this stuff up.
I generally believe people deserve second chances. But my god I didn't realize that UNCCHeat he become the clearing house for second (and third, and fourth...) chances.

bob blue devil
01-28-2015, 09:53 AM
I generally believe people deserve second chances. But my god I didn't realize that UNCCHeat he become the clearing house for second (and third, and fourth...) chances.

Agree exactly. Places with their houses in order are well positioned to determine appropriateness of a second chance and provide one. UNC greatly risks perpetuating its perverse culture with these recent hires. But what really blows my mind is the PR of this - aren't they even slightly concerned about outside perception? The natural external inference from these hires is that UNC doesn't give a darn about compliance or integrity. How can the leadership of a major university accept this message?

killerleft
01-28-2015, 10:20 AM
Agree exactly. Places with their houses in order are well positioned to determine appropriateness of a second chance and provide one. UNC greatly risks perpetuating its perverse culture with these recent hires. But what really blows my mind is the PR of this - aren't they even slightly concerned about outside perception? The natural external inference from these hires is that UNC doesn't give a darn about compliance or integrity. How can the leadership of a major university accept this message?

A political-type cartoon regarding the UNC Attitude would probably show an ugly blue giant called Bubba looking out at us with crossed eyes and a slightly self-satisfied evil grin having his thumb stitched to his nose by Carol Folt (on a ladder, of course). A tiny little character in the bottom right-hand corner would look remarkably like devildeac holding out a mug-o-beer saying, via his dialogue balloony thingy, "These people are brilliant. Cheers!".

devildeac
01-28-2015, 12:48 PM
It actually gets better. The Cheats also just announced the appointment of John Papuchis to the defensive staff. One of the commenters to the article noted that Papuchis was caught up in some controversy during his time at Kansas. See his bio in below link.

http://m.journalstar.com/sports/huskers/football/pelini-names-of-full-time-assistants/article_2d269a4b-cab1-5d06-bae1-f7ea8b6e55d3.html?mobile_touch=true

'Papuchis and fellow graduate assistant Mike Burns were drawn into internal and NCAA investigations for their involvement in improperly trying to help prospective JC transfers gain eligibility for the 2003 season. Burns was found by the NCAA to have committed academic fraud. Papuchis was not penalized.'

You simply cannot make this stuff up.

I'll wager ol' roy doesn't give a @#$% about Kansas. :rolleyes:

devildeac
01-28-2015, 12:50 PM
A political-type cartoon regarding the UNC Attitude would probably show an ugly blue giant called Bubba looking out at us with crossed eyes and a slightly self-satisfied evil grin having his thumb stitched to his nose by Carol Folt (on a ladder, of course). A tiny little character in the bottom right-hand corner would look remarkably like devildeac holding out a mug-o-beer saying, via his dialogue balloony thingy, "These people are brilliant. Cheers!".


That'd just about fit perfectly:rolleyes:.

martydoesntfoul
01-28-2015, 12:59 PM
Maybe this is all part of an audacious PR strategy (they've been paying a lot for one, yes?) to essentially say to the world that, "Of course we would never do such brazen things if we had anything to hide." If so, wow. And I hope the strategy fails spectacularly.

MarkD83
01-28-2015, 06:41 PM
Maybe this is all part of an audacious PR strategy (they've been paying a lot for one, yes?) to essentially say to the world that, "Of course we would never do such brazen things if we had anything to hide." If so, wow. And I hope the strategy fails spectacularly.

Maybe this is putting the right people in place to set up another 22 year scam. Once the NCAA does nothing about the first 22 year scam why not go all in for a few more decades.

BigWayne
01-29-2015, 08:00 PM
Mostly to keep this on the first page.......

Letter to the editor from a graduate and former UNC employee complaining about the leadership at UNC. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/29/4515440_time-to-take-back-carolina-from.html)

weezie
01-29-2015, 08:29 PM
Good spot BigWayne.^^^

That opinion writer has a degree in English from the hole on the hill?

The prosecution rests. Yikes.

BigWayne
01-30-2015, 03:00 PM
UNC is floating a trial balloon (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/unc-might-offer-chance-to-re-take-fake-classes) on the idea that they can get away with no SACS punishment again by offering retakes of fraudulent classes.

How on earth they think offering free retake classes to people that are in their late 30's and early 40's is meaningful is really beyond comprehension. Last time they did this, the fraud was limited to relatively recent history and it was conceivable someone might come back. Only one person did according to this article. Now you are talking about people that graduated up to 20 years ago.

MChambers
01-30-2015, 03:08 PM
How about UNC replays all its football and basketball games without the players who took the fraudulent classes?

jgehtland
01-30-2015, 03:17 PM
How about UNC replays all its football and basketball games without the players who took the fraudulent classes?

I'd actually like to see the ineligible players play the games. Some of those guys from the mid-nineties have to be pretty out of shape by now. ;)

hudlow
01-30-2015, 04:02 PM
UNC is floating a trial balloon (http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015/01/unc-might-offer-chance-to-re-take-fake-classes) on the idea that they can get away with no SACS punishment again by offering retakes of fraudulent classes.

How on earth they think offering free retake classes to people that are in their late 30's and early 40's is meaningful is really beyond comprehension. Last time they did this, the fraud was limited to relatively recent history and it was conceivable someone might come back. Only one person did according to this article. Now you are talking about people that graduated up to 20 years ago.

Is this truly the first admission of guilt?

hud

weezie
01-30-2015, 04:08 PM
Actually, that's pretty funny.

Trial balloon strategy, that just makes me laugh.

BigWayne
02-01-2015, 12:39 AM
First of a promised set of 8 daily postings is up at Mary Willingham and Jay Smith's website. (http://paperclassinc.com/poorly-led-hopelessly-lost/) This one mostly talks about UNC's recent response sent to SACS.

"Bubba Cunningham was quoted as saying: “At some point we’ve got to move forward. And I think we’re to that point.”
No, we’re not to that point. We’re not even close to that point."

"The document the Chancellor and Provost have produced only compounds the many errors made between 2010 and 2013 because it seeks to cover up the cover-up. Such institutional behavior—such troubling evidence that the institution has learned nothing about forthrightness and accountability—proves that we have no firm basis for “moving forward.”

BigWayne
02-01-2015, 01:00 PM
Day 2 of 8 from Willingham/Smith is a short piece so I can put it all here: (http://paperclassinc.com/time-apologize-competition/)

"Reasons #2 Waiting for banner-removal.

The waiting game has become an embarrassing spectacle. Evidence of the unfair competitive advantages enjoyed by UNC sports teams has been mounting since 2012; the Wainstein report turned a growing snowball into an avalanche. Yet the University cravenly clings to the hope that the NCAA, now conducting its own follow-up inquiry, will fail to adduce the evidence it needs to strip UNC of the championships earned during the fraud years. An honorable University, one that had genuinely changed its ways and had become determined to restore its reputation for fair play and respect for the rules, would move preemptively to take down banners, vacate wins, and apologize to the world for living the life of an institutional cheat. A University where professors and academic officers were truly in charge would not hesitate to take these actions; a University where athletics and athletics boosters remain in control chooses instead to find even the slenderest justification to retain hardware and signage that was earned dishonestly. Cheaters do not get to “move forward” until they have asked for and received the forgiveness of those who were disadvantaged by the violation of the rules of fair play. UNC has yet to learn this lesson."

There is also a book tour piece at WNCN. (http://www.wncn.com/story/27992414/willingham-unc-had-shadow-curriculum)

"Q: Do you think the basketball program got off the hook in the Wainstein Report? The coaches?

Smith: “Yes.”

Willingham: “Yes. We don't let them off the hook in ‘Cheated.' We don't let them off the hook.”"

dudog84
02-01-2015, 04:30 PM
Day 2 of 8 from Willingham/Smith is a short piece so I can put it all here: (http://paperclassinc.com/time-apologize-competition/)

"Reasons #2 Waiting for banner-removal.

The waiting game has become an embarrassing spectacle. Evidence of the unfair competitive advantages enjoyed by UNC sports teams has been mounting since 2012; the Wainstein report turned a growing snowball into an avalanche. Yet the University cravenly clings to the hope that the NCAA, now conducting its own follow-up inquiry, will fail to adduce the evidence it needs to strip UNC of the championships earned during the fraud years. An honorable University, one that had genuinely changed its ways and had become determined to restore its reputation for fair play and respect for the rules, would move preemptively to take down banners, vacate wins, and apologize to the world for living the life of an institutional cheat. A University where professors and academic officers were truly in charge would not hesitate to take these actions; a University where athletics and athletics boosters remain in control chooses instead to find even the slenderest justification to retain hardware and signage that was earned dishonestly. Cheaters do not get to “move forward” until they have asked for and received the forgiveness of those who were disadvantaged by the violation of the rules of fair play. UNC has yet to learn this lesson."

There is also a book tour piece at WNCN. (http://www.wncn.com/story/27992414/willingham-unc-had-shadow-curriculum)

"Q: Do you think the basketball program got off the hook in the Wainstein Report? The coaches?

Smith: “Yes.”

Willingham: “Yes. We don't let them off the hook in ‘Cheated.' We don't let them off the hook.”"

This is what bothers me the most. How can anyone think that any win attained with any ineligible athlete could be legitimate? Especially those in charge at a university, who are supposed to be leaders of young people and set an example for them to follow in their professional lives. It should be very easy to determine who was ineligible, and I would have immense respect for them if they were to pre-emptively vacate those wins. I think most people across the country would.

It is now too late in my mind. For them to do it now, I would think that they got a heads-up from the NCAA and were only doing it to try and salvage some honor instead of having the NCAA do it. Classic PR move. It's despicable, and I don't even really blame the coaches. It has to come from the deans, chancellor, president, board of governors...whoever is supposed to be in charge of them being a university.

They will never be my rival again. I consider them a travesty as an institution of higher learning. Schools are about more than learning, they're about how to conduct oneself in a society.

I enjoy my Blue Devils, but sports (football and basketball) have completely corrupted major universities in this country.

dukechem
02-01-2015, 05:15 PM
There was an interesting article in the Washington Post today about the psychology of sports fans and why they support their teams no matter what:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-psychology-of-why-sports-fans-see-their-teams-as-extensions-of-themselves/2015/01/30/521e0464-a816-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html?hpid=z3

UNC is not mentioned, but it's clear the principles apply.

Duke95
02-01-2015, 05:32 PM
The problem UNC faces is that, by standard damages theory, they must place the plaintiff in the same position he/she would have been "but-for" the bad act, which is represented by the fraudulent classes.

Letting students re-take classes does NOT do that. It places a substantial burden on the plaintiffs of having to change their lives around. Any lawyer or damages expert will have a field day destroying UNC's argument.

Newton_14
02-01-2015, 08:08 PM
Day 2 of 8 from Willingham/Smith is a short piece so I can put it all here: (http://paperclassinc.com/time-apologize-competition/)

"Reasons #2 Waiting for banner-removal.

The waiting game has become an embarrassing spectacle. Evidence of the unfair competitive advantages enjoyed by UNC sports teams has been mounting since 2012; the Wainstein report turned a growing snowball into an avalanche. Yet the University cravenly clings to the hope that the NCAA, now conducting its own follow-up inquiry, will fail to adduce the evidence it needs to strip UNC of the championships earned during the fraud years. An honorable University, one that had genuinely changed its ways and had become determined to restore its reputation for fair play and respect for the rules, would move preemptively to take down banners, vacate wins, and apologize to the world for living the life of an institutional cheat. A University where professors and academic officers were truly in charge would not hesitate to take these actions; a University where athletics and athletics boosters remain in control chooses instead to find even the slenderest justification to retain hardware and signage that was earned dishonestly. Cheaters do not get to “move forward” until they have asked for and received the forgiveness of those who were disadvantaged by the violation of the rules of fair play. UNC has yet to learn this lesson."

There is also a book tour piece at WNCN. (http://www.wncn.com/story/27992414/willingham-unc-had-shadow-curriculum)

"Q: Do you think the basketball program got off the hook in the Wainstein Report? The coaches?

Smith: “Yes.”

Willingham: “Yes. We don't let them off the hook in ‘Cheated.' We don't let them off the hook.”"

First, mad respect, and mad props to BigWayne who has provided tremendous coverage of the Unc Basketball and Football Cheating Scandal that now dates back to the early 80's. You have been a godsend and the lead reporter for DBR covering this thing which is by far the worst basketball and football cheating scandal in the history of the NCAA. Thanks for all you have done and for bringing great finds and content to DBR since all this came to light. Well done.


This is what bothers me the most. How can anyone think that any win attained with any ineligible athlete could be legitimate? Especially those in charge at a university, who are supposed to be leaders of young people and set an example for them to follow in their professional lives. It should be very easy to determine who was ineligible, and I would have immense respect for them if they were to pre-emptively vacate those wins. I think most people across the country would.

It is now too late in my mind. For them to do it now, I would think that they got a heads-up from the NCAA and were only doing it to try and salvage some honor instead of having the NCAA do it. Classic PR move. It's despicable, and I don't even really blame the coaches. It has to come from the deans, chancellor, president, board of governors...whoever is supposed to be in charge of them being a university.

They will never be my rival again. I consider them a travesty as an institution of higher learning. Schools are about more than learning, they're about how to conduct oneself in a society.

I enjoy my Blue Devils, but sports (football and basketball) have completely corrupted major universities in this country.
This pretty much nails it for me. It's too late. Unc is down to one title (57) and slightly possible two titles (82), though given what we now know it is quite possible, and worth pondering, that they really have zero legitimate national titles. How sad. The rivalry is dead. Sure, ESPN, Vitale, and most of the local media will still hype to death "The Battle of The Blues", but in reality, it no longer means anything. Certainly not to me. It will sort of feel like playing the old UNLV teams or SMU twice yearly, or equating it to high school hoops, like playing one of the Diploma Mill Factories twice yearly that bring in non-students to field a basketball team. No classes to attend, just show up to practice daily.

What was once the greatest rivalry in sports, when we assumed we were both playing on a level playing field, and playing a school that valued academics, followed all NCAA rules, and fielded a team of great student athlete's from just 8 miles up the road, was all a mirage and a fraud. It was all a sham the entire time. UVA would fit the bill much better, so I wish the ACC would make them our permanent rival and pair up Unc-cheat with Florida State. That would make far more sense. Take the bell back for the football games and start letting the bell be the prize for Duke/UVA football games.

The arrogance over on the dump is just as bad as the foul stench of the cheating an refusal to take any real actions to pay for the 25+ years of fielding ineligible athletes in all the games.

Too little too late, but until the fake banners come down, there is no need to even have a discussion. The irony is the gall of most of their fans to still want to talk smack about what happens on the court and act like it even matters anymore. "I don't want to talk about any of that crap, let's discuss what happens on the court". Yeah, right. Get a clue.

gumbomoop
02-01-2015, 09:24 PM
http://paperclassinc.com/time-apologize-competition "An honorable University, one that had genuinely changed its ways and had become determined to restore its reputation for fair play and respect for the rules, would move preemptively to take down banners, vacate wins, and apologize to the world for living the life of an institutional cheat. A University where professors and academic officers were truly in charge would...."

[The first sentence of my post is neither a witting nor an unwitting pun. I hope.] When you're in a hole, so the aphorism goes, the first thing to do is stop digging. UNC, as an institution, is still digging, mainly, it appears, because Chancellor Folt wields a big shovel.

I don't myself principally care about the banners, though I concede that maybe I should, principle-ly, care a lot. My main interest lies in what SACS will do rather than what the NCAA will/won't do. And most of all, I'm interested in two things: (1) whether any noticeable minority of tenured UNC faculty will demand that Chancellor Folt act as something more than a dissembling functionary. There is abundant evidence in her SACS report that she is not trustworthy, not worthy of leadership in an institution seeking to regain its lost honor. And (2) whether SACS is itself led by functionaries who, like Folt, merely give lip service to its own stated "core values" of "integrity, accountability, and transparency."

In an earlier post, I expressed some surprise at Folt's brazen misdirection, given that SACS reviewers can read. But the verdict's out on that. It is impossible to value "integrity, accountability, and transparency" while simultaneously accepting Folt's fairy tale.

CameronBlue
02-02-2015, 12:49 AM
[The first sentence of my post is neither a witting nor an unwitting pun. I hope.] When you're in a hole, so the aphorism goes, the first thing to do is stop digging. UNC, as an institution, is still digging, mainly, it appears, because Chancellor Folt wields a big shovel.

I don't myself principally care about the banners, though I concede that maybe I should, principle-ly, care a lot. My main interest lies in what SACS will do rather than what the NCAA will/won't do. And most of all, I'm interested in two things: (1) whether any noticeable minority of tenured UNC faculty will demand that Chancellor Folt act as something more than a dissembling functionary. There is abundant evidence in her SACS report that she is not trustworthy, not worthy of leadership in an institution seeking to regain its lost honor. And (2) whether SACS is itself led by functionaries who, like Folt, merely give lip service to its own stated "core values" of "integrity, accountability, and transparency."

In an earlier post, I expressed some surprise at Folt's brazen misdirection, given that SACS reviewers can read. But the verdict's out on that. It is impossible to value "integrity, accountability, and transparency" while simultaneously accepting Folt's fairy tale.

Folt's "act" looks similar to Holden Thorp's which begs the question, who is really calling the shots? She may be playing the role of "dissembling functionary" exactly as prescribed. Holden Thorp was smart to bail before his reputation became indelibly smeared by this scandal. I know his family reasonably well, shared the stage on several occasions with his mother Bo who is a fine actress. They are highly accomplished and of good character IMO. UNC has not only dis-served its population of student-athletes it's now turning members of its faculty and administration into first-class toadies.

What kills me about the entire mess is first, how both UNC athletic department officials and academics alike obviously regarded its academic mission with utter contempt and second, how lazy they were. Perhaps it was different in the mid-90s when this scandal allegedly began but with the resources available today it's not difficult to keep college athletes eligible. Every power conference member admits academic exceptions to their sports programs, including Duke. There are less rigorous majors for the borderline student-athlete and academic assistance is available virtually 24/7. I presume concessions are made where classes and tests conflict with the teams' schedules. For most schools including UNC that just means recruiting athletes who are willing to avail themselves of the resources and requiring them to invest in the educational process. It's a very low bar for most functional adults. Yet UNC wasn't willing to make that effort. I have little trouble believing that there were at least some student-athletes at UNC who were willing to engage the process before being discouraged and misdirected by UNC's athletic and academic advisors.

BigWayne
02-02-2015, 02:46 AM
Our friend Barry Jacobs has a piece up at the N&O website. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/01/4523166_jacobs-athletics-a-pressure-point.html?rh=1)

It talks a lot about Holden Thorp and Paul Hardin III, who was UNC chancellor from 88-95. It does not address the fact the scandal, at least as reported to date, started during Hardin's tenure.

fuse
02-02-2015, 06:48 AM
It will likely re-air. Willingham had an interview with her co-author.

Says culture of athletic enablement went beyond AFAM and was pervasive. Singled out drama, geology, philosophy, trying to remember if there were others.

I did not take it, I do recall Intro Geology being referred to as "rocks for jocks".

Willingham seemed not just to want to stick it to UNC, noting (her opinion) most colleges had easy classes for athletes and directed them into those classes.

jgehtland
02-02-2015, 07:40 AM
It will likely re-air. Willingham had an interview with her co-author.

Says culture of athletic enablement went beyond AFAM and was pervasive. Singled out drama, geology, philosophy, trying to remember if there were others.

I did not take it, I do recall Intro Geology being referred to as "rocks for jocks".

Willingham seemed not just to want to stick it to UNC, noting (her opinion) most colleges had easy classes for athletes and directed them into those classes.

I *did* take "rocks for jocks" at Duke in the early 90's, and yes there were a couple of athletes in the class. And I got a D+. I got that D+ through lack of effort. It may have been an "easy" class, but you still had to work at it to get a good grade.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 07:44 AM
I *did* take "rocks for jocks" at Duke in the early 90's, and yes there were a couple of athletes in the class. And I got a D+. I got that D+ through lack of effort. It may have been an "easy" class, but you still had to work at it to get a good grade.
Which is exactly the point. I took intro to classical music and I wouldn't say it was hard. But you had to spend the time learning the music. Getting an A wasn't exactly tough but it required many hours of listening. There was no getting around it.

BigWayne
02-02-2015, 10:46 AM
Today's post from Willingham (http://paperclassinc.com/truth-transcripts/)concerns a call for UNC to regularly provide data on the classes and grades of current athletes as part of the going forward reforms. It's an interesting observation that I assume UNC is not wanting anybody to notice. Despite Roy's claimed concern about clustering, I do not believe there is anything in place yet to prevent it from happening over and over, or for anyone outside the advising department to know about it.

J.Blink
02-02-2015, 12:25 PM
I *did* take "rocks for jocks" at Duke in the early 90's, and yes there were a couple of athletes in the class. And I got a D+. I got that D+ through lack of effort. It may have been an "easy" class, but you still had to work at it to get a good grade.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one--I took rocks for jocks (the name must have been borrowed from a different school!) as a summer class in the early 2000s and got a C+. That was my lowest grade at Duke!

westwall
02-02-2015, 01:24 PM
Our friend Barry Jacobs has a piece up at the N&O website. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/01/4523166_jacobs-athletics-a-pressure-point.html?rh=1)

It talks a lot about Holden Thorp and Paul Hardin III, who was UNC chancellor from 88-95. It does not address the fact the scandal, at least as reported to date, started during Hardin's tenure.

I knew Paul Hardin III back in the early 60's. He was a Duke grad and one of my professors at Duke Law School. I have great difficulty believing, particularly in the absence of any evidence, that he had any role in or knowledge of "the cheat operation", at least as it developed.

BigWayne
02-02-2015, 01:28 PM
I knew Paul Hardin III back in the early 60's. He was a Duke grad and one of my professors at Duke Law School. I have great difficulty believing, particularly in the absence of any evidence, that he had any role in or knowledge of "the cheat operation", at least as it developed.

I certainly don't disagree. I am sure the article had limits on what it could get into, but it would be interesting to hear his perspective of interactions with UNC athletics during his time there vs. his time at SMU when he got run out of town for trying to clean things up.

Indoor66
02-02-2015, 02:35 PM
I knew Paul Hardin III back in the early 60's. He was a Duke grad and one of my professors at Duke Law School. I have great difficulty believing, particularly in the absence of any evidence, that he had any role in or knowledge of "the cheat operation", at least as it developed.

I am with you on this one. I, too, knew Paul. He was not one to condone or permit a cheating operation under his watch. I seriously doubt that he had any knowledge or awareness of such activities.

tux
02-02-2015, 03:27 PM
What kills me about the entire mess is first, how both UNC athletic department officials and academics alike obviously regarded its academic mission with utter contempt and second, how lazy they were. Perhaps it was different in the mid-90s when this scandal allegedly began but with the resources available today it's not difficult to keep college athletes eligible. Every power conference member admits academic exceptions to their sports programs, including Duke. There are less rigorous majors for the borderline student-athlete and academic assistance is available virtually 24/7. I presume concessions are made where classes and tests conflict with the teams' schedules. For most schools including UNC that just means recruiting athletes who are willing to avail themselves of the resources and requiring them to invest in the educational process. It's a very low bar for most functional adults. Yet UNC wasn't willing to make that effort. I have little trouble believing that there were at least some student-athletes at UNC who were willing to engage the process before being discouraged and misdirected by UNC's athletic and academic advisors.

Strongly agree with this point. And I think the excuse that 'everyone does it' is an attempt to take what most folks more or less agree on --- that a lot of resources are available to student-athletes to help them remain eligible --- and somehow conflate that with what transpired at UNC. I.e., UNC would like us to believe that their actions are at most a small step over some proverbial line that was already poorly delineated to begin with...

alteran
02-02-2015, 03:49 PM
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one--I took rocks for jocks (the name must have been borrowed from a different school!) as a summer class in the early 2000s and got a C+. That was my lowest grade at Duke!
Every school has Rocks for Jocks. It's just too easy a pun.

ricks68
02-02-2015, 10:05 PM
Every school has Rocks for Jocks. It's just too easy a pun.

It was called just plain "Jocks Rocks" in the mid sixties when I was at Duke. There also was an easy Math 11 course, but that was it for the jocks. I took neither. It was kind of ironic when I moved to Texas and found out that many, many students at Texas schools were clamoring to get into geology courses because of the huge demand for geologists for the oil industry. I also understand that the geology courses were pretty rigorous due to the competition and demand for really sharp geologists.

ricks

BigWayne
02-03-2015, 04:22 PM
Here's a fun read that covers (http://www.agentpiercesaid.com/Home/February-2015/UNC-BOG-Now-What.aspx)some of the political underpinnings of recent changes with the UNC BOG and Tom Ross.

"Trying to make heads or tails out of whatever it was that John Fennebresque meant to do regarding the disposition of Thomas Warren Ross – President For Now of The UNC System. The regional media immediately declaring Ross to be Saint Thomas The Aggrieved was likely not Fennebresque’s intent."

grad_devil
02-04-2015, 01:08 PM
It looks like a Wake Forest assistant football coach took a direct shot at UNC-CH:

https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/563014209395765248

If you don't want to click the link which contains a screenshot, the text of the tweet says:

BREAKING: WF demonstrates that u can come 2 North Carolina & earn a degree at a school that's not UNClear about the definition of student-athlete.

He's since removed the tweet (shocker).

BigWayne
02-04-2015, 02:45 PM
Mary Willingham's post of the day (http://paperclassinc.com/secrets-silence/) includes audio clips showing proof that she told UNC admins in 2010 and Jim Martin in 2012 about the fake classes and how it was part of the scheme to keep athletes eligible.

BigWayne
02-04-2015, 06:57 PM
Larry Fedora is upset that he has to combat negative recruiting from other schools, specifically about things that are "made up." (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/04/4530510/signing-day-unc-signs-19-man-class.html)

"So I think our staff did a tremendous job," Fedora said at a press conference announcing UNC's 19-player signing class. "We spend a lot of time unfortunately not selling what the university has to offer, and defending against the accusations and the stories that are made up a lot of times in the home.

"So we end up spending a lot of time spinning our wheels."


Not sure what anybody needed to make up to recruit against them. The truth should be enough.

English
02-05-2015, 10:43 AM
Not sure what anybody needed to make up to recruit against them. The truth should be enough.

Perhaps opposing coaches were negatively recruiting against the UNC football program by telling prospects that the class schedule at UNC was demanding and they'd be required to spend a lot/some/any time in the classroom and study hall. I'd consider that to be a made up allegation.

moonpie23
02-05-2015, 12:59 PM
or maybe, recruiters were saying that THOR would be visiting unc VERY SOON and "you don't want to get any of THAT on you!"

BigWayne
02-06-2015, 12:01 AM
or maybe, recruiters were saying that THOR would be visiting unc VERY SOON and "you don't want to get any of THAT on you!"

Maybe they were telling recruits their favorite assistant coach was about to get fired. Oh, that was true. Never mind.
4719

martydoesntfoul
02-06-2015, 12:55 AM
From tarheelblog.com:

"This is also a glimpse at the seedy underbelly of recruiting. Disch, who had been instrumental in recruiting, was essentially kept long enough to make sure no recruits bolted from the 2015 class. Now they are all locked in as early enrollees or by a letter of intent, Disch was let go."

What a disgrace.

OldPhiKap
02-06-2015, 07:34 AM
From tarheelblog.com:

"This is also a glimpse at the seedy underbelly of recruiting. Disch, who had been instrumental in recruiting, was essentially kept long enough to make sure no recruits bolted from the 2015 class. Now they are all locked in as early enrollees or by a letter of intent, Disch was let go."

What a disgrace.

In consumer fraud, this is called a "bait and switch."

Here, it's called "The Carolina Way."

Olympic Fan
02-06-2015, 03:28 PM
In a bit of news that is sure to infuriate the IC crowd, Mary Willingham was just named "The Whistleblower of the Year":

http://www.whistleblower-insider.com/whistleblower-year-goes-mary-willingham/#.VNUit6V0yM9

It's hilarious to visit that lunatic asylum and read their response to any news about Willingham. Everywhere else, she's a hero ... in UNC La La Land, she's a lying, untrustworthy scrumbag ... even if almost everything she charged was confirmed by the Wainstein Report.

lotusland
02-06-2015, 11:47 PM
Looks like their finally coming clean (is this guy supposed to be the new Hitler?)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NphUCLR2sEQ

Newton_14
02-07-2015, 12:43 AM
In a bit of news that is sure to infuriate the IC crowd, Mary Willingham was just named "The Whistleblower of the Year":

http://www.whistleblower-insider.com/whistleblower-year-goes-mary-willingham/#.VNUit6V0yM9

It's hilarious to visit that lunatic asylum and read their response to any news about Willingham. Everywhere else, she's a hero ... in UNC La La Land, she's a lying, untrustworthy scrumbag ... even if almost everything she charged was confirmed by the Wainstein Report.

This is great. The lady deserves a reward. I still find myself somewhat stunned at how they treated her while she was still an employee, stripping her of all kinds of access to internal systems, moving her "office" to some type of slummy area in a basement, etc! That has to be one of the more unprofessional and childish/inmature moves I have ever seen from an establishment that is supposedly a professionally ran institution/company/organization, whatever you want to call them.

One thing in all this that has been made crystal clear, is the fact that unc-cheat cares far more about athletic accomplishments than being an academic Institution that is supposed to educate athlete's and non-athlete's alike. How sad. We all love our hoops and other sports here in the heart of Tobacco Rd, but I would hope if Duke ever fell this far from grace and displayed a behavior showing academics were no longer important, every single one of us, fans and alums alike, would be collectively disgusted, ashamed, and demand change.

And some "just want to discuss the games and what happens on the court"? Sorry, no thanks. I would be just fine if there wasn't a single thread on this board for discussion of a unc-cheat athletic team. Until they own up to their actions, admit full guilt, serve the appropriate punishment, and clean up the mess, they don't deserve discussions/threads on their illegal semi-pro sports teams.

jv001
02-07-2015, 12:57 AM
This is great. The lady deserves a reward. I still find myself somewhat stunned at how they treated her while she was still an employee, stripping her of all kinds of access to internal systems, moving her "office" to some type of slummy area in a basement, etc! That has to be one of the more unprofessional and childish/inmature moves I have ever seen from an establishment that is supposedly a professionally ran institution/company/organization, whatever you want to call them.

One thing in all this that has been made crystal clear, is the fact that unc-cheat cares far more about athletic accomplishments than being an academic Institution that is supposed to educate athlete's and non-athlete's alike. How sad. We all love our hoops and other sports here in the heart of Tobacco Rd, but I would hope if Duke ever fell this far from grace and displayed a behavior showing academics were no longer important, every single one of us, fans and alums alike, would be collectively disgusted, ashamed, and demand change.

And some "just want to discuss the games and what happens on the court"? Sorry, no thanks. I would be just fine if there wasn't a single thread on this board for discussion of a unc-cheat athletic team. Until they own up to their actions, admit full guilt, serve the appropriate punishment, and clean up the mess, they don't deserve discussions/threads on their illegal semi-pro sports teams.

I'm sorry that I can't spork you because you said everything that I would want to say on the uncheat mess, but you put it into words that I never could. Some of my uncheat friends tried to tell me that all programs do it and if Duke were to get caught, I would say the same thing they are saying. I told them no way. I would probably not root for any college team. This world is already messed up enough without universities. selling their souls for basketball or football wins. Thanks for your great post. GoDuke!

BigWayne
02-07-2015, 04:57 AM
In an odd development, UNC freelance mouthpiece Bradley Bethel has apparently quit his job and is trying to raise money to make a documentary film to tell us all the "real story."

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/471343953/unverified-the-film

"Unverified will be a documentary film that tells the story of Bradley’s attempts to set the record straight about the controversy at UNC and to challenge a press he now believes is more concerned with creating narratives than with telling the truth."

It's so outlandish to me that I am wondering if someone put this up to mess with Bethel and it isn't real.

moonpie23
02-07-2015, 07:37 AM
Looks like their finally coming clean (is this guy supposed to be the new Hitler?)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NphUCLR2sEQ

what's the word that describes something that is hysterically funny, yet, you don't laugh?


i'll rotfl when they get their comeuppance......

Henderson
02-07-2015, 08:47 AM
i'll rotfl when they get their comeuppance......

Is there an anticipated timetable for their comeuppance from the SACS or the NCAA? The lawsuits will take their own unpredictable paths, and I don't know where the US Dept. of Ed.'s stands in its separate investigation concerning the civil rights complaint filed against UNC-CH. But what about the SACS and NCAA?

nocilla
02-07-2015, 10:46 AM
Is there an anticipated timetable for their comeuppance from the SACS or the NCAA? The lawsuits will take their own unpredictable paths, and I don't know where the US Dept. of Ed.'s stands in its separate investigation concerning the civil rights complaint filed against UNC-CH. But what about the SACS and NCAA?

From what I understand, it took 7 years for the recent Syracuse situation. But I'm not sure which incident to start the UNC clock on. And I'm sure there isn't a set timetable, it probably varies with different scenarios.

BigWayne
02-07-2015, 01:20 PM
Is there an anticipated timetable for their comeuppance from the SACS or the NCAA? The lawsuits will take their own unpredictable paths, and I don't know where the US Dept. of Ed.'s stands in its separate investigation concerning the civil rights complaint filed against UNC-CH. But what about the SACS and NCAA?

There is no way to predict what the NCAA will do. For SACS, they will "do something" in June.

"Dr. Wheelan says a decision will be made public as that board meeting wraps up.

“They’ll make some kind of decision,” she says. “Whether it’s to defer it; whether it’s to ask for additional information; whether it’s to put them on warning or probation; or drop them from membership. But there will be some action taken on it.”

That board meeting will be held June 8 through 11."

BigWayne
02-07-2015, 01:33 PM
Day 8/8 of Willingham's posts (http://paperclassinc.com/drop-disguise/) promoting the upcoming book calls out UNC for not caring about the education of the athletes at all and concludes with a very specific incident in which a player was identified as not being able to read and the tutor that identified the problem being told to just carry on and keep it quiet.

"“Having some trouble? Well, just read this key sentence here out loud. What would you say is most important in there?” As the player began to fumble over the first words on the page, Berler suddenly realized that the striking physical specimen in front of her was a nonreader."

"The next morning Berler expressed her concerns to Beth Bridger, the chief academic counselor for football. She explained that she was having a serious problem reaching one of the players she had helped the night before, and she had no idea what to do about it. Bridger, unmoved, responded with smiles and encouragement. “Just keep at it. I’m sure he’s getting something out of it.”

MarkD83
02-07-2015, 07:57 PM
What struck me about the latest post on the Willingham site was the following comments about the Complete Carolina program.

'the Provost’s “working group” who has apparently been charged with implementing the new system, explained to the Daily Tar Heel recently that, of the thirty-two athletes who have applied to the program, sixteen–or fifty percent of the applicant pool–“do not meet the parameters for returning to UNC to complete their degree.” '

And I will read between the lines and add this comment...."because they never took real classes while at UNC."

BigWayne
02-08-2015, 02:19 AM
In an odd development, UNC freelance mouthpiece Bradley Bethel has apparently quit his job and is trying to raise money to make a documentary film to tell us all the "real story."

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/471343953/unverified-the-film

"Unverified will be a documentary film that tells the story of Bradley’s attempts to set the record straight about the controversy at UNC and to challenge a press he now believes is more concerned with creating narratives than with telling the truth."

It's so outlandish to me that I am wondering if someone put this up to mess with Bethel and it isn't real.

Well it seems this is actually true and he has raised over $50K from UNC supporters to fund it. Bethel has a post up on his denial blog explaining he has left UNC voluntarily to conduct this exercise.

BD80
02-08-2015, 09:02 AM
In an odd development, UNC freelance mouthpiece Bradley Bethel has apparently quit his job and is trying to raise money to make a documentary film to tell us all the "real story."

"Unverified will be a documentary film that tells the story of Bradley’s attempts to set the record straight about the controversy at UNC and to challenge a press he now believes is more concerned with creating narratives than with telling the truth." ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPA1FfBxF9c

4Gen
02-08-2015, 11:04 AM
WITN now has litigators on re the UNC suit.

Henderson
02-08-2015, 11:25 AM
What struck me about the latest post on the Willingham site was the following comments about the Complete Carolina program.

'the Provost’s “working group” who has apparently been charged with implementing the new system, explained to the Daily Tar Heel recently that, of the thirty-two athletes who have applied to the program, sixteen–or fifty percent of the applicant pool–“do not meet the parameters for returning to UNC to complete their degree.” '

And I will read between the lines and add this comment...."because they never took real classes while at UNC."

The Complete Carolina program requires that a returning student have left in good academic standing. http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209573461

"The people we screwed over most are not eligible." The Carolina Way.

BigWayne
02-08-2015, 01:19 PM
The Complete Carolina program requires that a returning student have left in good academic standing. http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209573461

"The people we screwed over most are not eligible." The Carolina Way.

As Willingham pointed out, that program is a PR stunt to make UNC look better and cares not one whit about whether they really help any of the athletes get an education unless it allows them to make a positive press release.

BD80
02-08-2015, 04:30 PM
The Complete Carolina program requires that a returning student have left in good academic standing. http://www.goheels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209573461

"The people we screwed over most are not eligible." The Carolina Way.

Well duh. They were dumber than rocks.

carolina was doing them a favor by keeping them eligible without even a hint of education. It let them concentrate on a revenue sport and partying.

peterjswift
02-09-2015, 11:58 AM
From what I understand, it took 7 years for the recent Syracuse situation. But I'm not sure which incident to start the UNC clock on. And I'm sure there isn't a set timetable, it probably varies with different scenarios.

I've been thinking for a long time (and I'm sure my opinion is echoed by me and many others earlier in this thread and others) that the NCAA (and I would argue, the SCAC) are in a lose-lose situation here. Every option is bad for their organization, and now we're talking about one of the most enormous NCAA related scandal in the history of the organization. The blow-back from any decision they make is going to be unprecedented. As much as I hate to say it, probably their best possible move is to delay, delay, delay and hope another organization makes a move first while this whole situation fades further and further from everyone's mind. Whatever decision is made is likely the last thing Emmert's administration in the NCAA does...and I think he would probably prefer it to be the first thing that the next administration does. I'm not sure of his retirement timetable...but I expect that the UNC investigation will make an impact on it.

Call my cynical, but if they wait 7+ years to act, suddenly stripping banners and vacating wins will feel a lot less punitive and matter a lot less to the UNC faithful, and 'Ol Roy will probably be long out of the picture, and I think the NCAA is probably counting on that to help minimize the response to their punishment. Or, in a perfect scenario for the NCAA, suddenly several other schools come out with similar scandals, or even bigger scandals that are easier to distance themselves from and help dilute what happens to UNC.

If the NCAA wanted to come out strong and make a statement about what happened at UNC, that time is nearly past.

sagegrouse
02-09-2015, 12:24 PM
I've been thinking for a long time (and I'm sure my opinion is echoed by me and many others earlier in this thread and others) that the NCAA (and I would argue, the SCAC) are in a lose-lose situation here. Every option is bad for their organization, and now we're talking about one of the most enormous NCAA related scandal in the history of the organization. The blow-back from any decision they make is going to be unprecedented. As much as I hate to say it, probably their best possible move is to delay, delay, delay and hope another organization makes a move first while this whole situation fades further and further from everyone's mind. Whatever decision is made is likely the last thing Emmert's administration in the NCAA does...and I think he would probably prefer it to be the first thing that the next administration does. I'm not sure of his retirement timetable...but I expect that the UNC investigation will make an impact on it.

Call my cynical, but if they wait 7+ years to act, suddenly stripping banners and vacating wins will feel a lot less punitive and matter a lot less to the UNC faithful, and 'Ol Roy will probably be long out of the picture, and I think the NCAA is probably counting on that to help minimize the response to their punishment. Or, in a perfect scenario for the NCAA, suddenly several other schools come out with similar scandals, or even bigger scandals that are easier to distance themselves from and help dilute what happens to UNC.

If the NCAA wanted to come out strong and make a statement about what happened at UNC, that time is nearly past.

You make some really good points. There is no question that the NCAA and the SACS are facing difficult issues. I don't see the delay by the NCAA to be indicative of indecision. It has a pile of evidence in the Wainstein Report, which UNC will have trouble contesting. But there are threads in the investigation that require more work. Given severe penalties handed out to Weber State recently and Minnesota a few years ago for academic transgressions by athletes -- violations that were a tiny fraction of what occurred at UNC -- then I think the NCAA will be on solid ground in levying heavy penalties of a traditional sort (fines, probation, vacating wins and banners, etc., etc.). But if the UNC case drags out more than a few months, then your concerns about organization paralysis may be proven out.

The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools is a different beast entirely. It seems to spend its time on new colleges, colleges in severe difficulties, and commercial enterprises attempting to masquerade as institutions of higher education. Rarely does it have a major case against a highly regarded institution like UNC. UNC, if I recall correctly, was one of six colleges 100 years ago that brought SACS into existence. (Trinity College was another.) It has 29,000 students, mostly highly capable and most of whom receive an excellent education.

I expect UNC will end up on double-secret probation, suspended suspension, and other mighty slaps on the wrist. Plus, there will be "cures" imposed, including offering courses to those afflicted with the bogus courses -- some of this has already occurred.

But I don't see any way that SACS will revoke the accreditation of a school like UNC.

peterjswift
02-09-2015, 12:40 PM
But I don't see any way that SACS will revoke the accreditation of a school like UNC.

I completely agree with this. I wouldn't be in favor of any major penalty levied by the SACS anyhow. As much as Roy and others @ UNC would like to paint this as an "academic issue" - I think it really is an athletics issue that the NCAA should be significantly more involved with than the SCAC. The SCAC should review it and help remedy it, but I don't think their accreditation should be at risk.


Given severe penalties handed out to Weber State recently and Minnesota a few years ago for academic transgressions by athletes -- violations that were a tiny fraction of what occurred at UNC -- then I think the NCAA will be on solid ground in levying heavy penalties of a traditional sort (fines, probation, vacating wins and banners, etc., etc.).

I think the matter of being on solid ground to levy heavy penalties isn't the problem. I think the problem is that severe penalties were handed out recently to other schools, and to scale those penalties in accordance with what clearly has happened at UNC would destroy athletics at UNC. I think Kedsy pointed out in another thread that the NCAA has been: "Handing out million dollar tickets for jaywalking" which makes it very hard for them to have a reasonable response when they're dealing with something more serious.

I've been saying it for a while, but I think the NCAA needs to figure out a new and different mechanism for punishment @ UNC. The traditional methods (vacating wins, taking away scholarships, post-season bans) are not effective at punishing the right people in the right way. However, it is easy for me as a spectator to point out a problem...but it isn't really useful, since I have no suggestions for a solution.

hudlow
02-09-2015, 12:52 PM
Maybe UNC's best bet would be to admit guilt to what's on the table now and ask for immediate punishment on the condition the investigation will be closed, rather than face more investigation in the coming years.

That would be a win/win for SACS, The NCAA and most likely UNC.

hud

Henderson
02-09-2015, 01:08 PM
Maybe UNC's best bet would be to admit guilt to what's on the table now and ask for immediate punishment on the condition the investigation will be closed, rather than face more investigation in the coming years.

That would be a win/win for SACS, The NCAA and most likely UNC.

That's been the reasonable prescription that many here have suggested for a long time now. It seems so obvious.

And yet, here we are. And here they are, suffering in the stench of their self-sustained miasma.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folks.

uh_no
02-09-2015, 01:59 PM
Maybe UNC's best bet would be to admit guilt to what's on the table now and ask for immediate punishment on the condition the investigation will be closed, rather than face more investigation in the coming years.

That would be a win/win for SACS, The NCAA and most likely UNC.

hud

The investigation HAD been closed, and UNC punished....but people will keep digging stuff up anyway

Kfanarmy
02-09-2015, 02:11 PM
I completely agree with this. I wouldn't be in favor of any major penalty levied by the SACS anyhow. As much as Roy and others @ UNC would like to paint this as an "academic issue" - I think it really is an athletics issue that the NCAA should be significantly more involved with than the SCAC. The SCAC should review it and help remedy it, but I don't think their accreditation should be at risk..... At the end of the day, with the intent to win basketball games, and eventually football games, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill awarded degrees to people who had not completed coursework worthy of college credits. In order to give those degrees UNC violated the trust of the accrediting agency and, on multiple occasions, misrepresented their actions to SACS, with the express purpose to deceive and avoid further inquiry. So while SACS may do nothing, athletics led university personnel to discredit both their academics and their accrediting agency.

peterjswift
02-09-2015, 02:44 PM
At the end of the day, with the intent to win basketball games, and eventually football games, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill awarded degrees to people who had not completed coursework worthy of college credits. In order to give those degrees UNC violated the trust of the accrediting agency and, on multiple occasions, misrepresented their actions to SACS, with the express purpose to deceive and avoid further inquiry. So while SACS may do nothing, athletics led university personnel to discredit both their academics and their accrediting agency.

I totally agree with you on all of this, but I don't think this is significant enough to affect their accreditation. SACS has a responsibility to investigate and work with them on this, but their over involvement would make this look like an academic issue that involves the entire university and calls into question all of their academic offerings - which is simply not the case. This is about giving an unfair advantage to their athletes...not about the quality of the overall education being offered.

This is an athletics scandal that involves academics. Not the other way around. Surely SACS needs to show that they are concerned and will want to see steps to ensure this doesn't happen again - but this cheating is more about the athletics program than about the rest of the university. I can't see SACS doing anything punitive - they would be more likely to be concerned with the remediation of those affected and ensuring that there are guidelines in place to safeguard this in the future.

BigWayne
02-09-2015, 02:59 PM
I totally agree with you on all of this, but I don't think this is significant enough to affect their accreditation. SACS has a responsibility to investigate and work with them on this, but their over involvement would make this look like an academic issue that involves the entire university and calls into question all of their academic offerings - which is simply not the case. This is about giving an unfair advantage to their athletes...not about the quality of the overall education being offered.

This is an athletics scandal that involves academics. Not the other way around. Surely SACS needs to show that they are concerned and will want to see steps to ensure this doesn't happen again - but this cheating is more about the athletics program than about the rest of the university. I can't see SACS doing anything punitive - they would be more likely to be concerned with the remediation of those affected and ensuring that there are guidelines in place to safeguard this in the future.

What SACS should do is emphatically demand that UNC take control of athlete's education away from the athletic department. Something like what is suggested by Willingham here: http://paperclassinc.com/loudermilk-center-go/

PackMan97
02-09-2015, 04:38 PM
The investigation HAD been closed, and UNC punished....but people will keep digging stuff up anyway

UNC has not been punished for any institutional academic fraud. A few members of the football team were punished for getting too much help for tutors and that's it.

NSDukeFan
02-09-2015, 08:50 PM
UNC has not been punished for any institutional academic fraud. A few members of the football team were punished for getting too much help for tutors and that's it.

I assumed Syracuse was accepting punishment for UNC's transgressions.

Duvall
02-13-2015, 04:36 PM
Closing the loop on UNC brattiness, for now. (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/13/4553268/duke-billed-unc-2717044-for-paint.html)


After the University of North Carolina defeated Duke in football on Nov. 24, the Tar Heels spray-painted the Victory Bell – and the Blue Devils’ practice facility turf and the visitor’s locker room. And Duke billed UNC $27,170.44 for the damages, according to information obtained in a public records request.

Most of the money – $22,028.44 – went toward new carpet in the Duke visitor’s locker room. According to an email sent from Gerald Harrison, the Duke associate athletic director who oversees football, to UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham, 60 carpet tiles were spray painted, and they weren’t able to be cleaned. That required a full carpet replacement throughout the facility, Harrison wrote.


Meanwhile, Bubba Cunningham shows the extent to which the UNC athletic department has learned its lessons about accountability:


To close his letter, Cunningham included a photo of spray paint damage to UNC’s South Building on campus – four pillars were tagged with the letters D-U-K-E on Feb. 19, 2014, before the Duke-UNC basketball game.

“The University of North Carolina bore the cost of sandblasting these pillars and did not make public comments of the transgression. I acknowledge we have no idea who did this, but I simply included it to demonstrate that all fans, teams, coaches, students, etc. need to appreciate and respect the rivalry.”

The UNC response is available here. (http://media2.newsobserver.com/smedia/2015/02/13/12/09/33aWT.So.156.pdf#storylink=relast)

mgtr
02-13-2015, 04:58 PM
So, is UNC paying a price for these transgressions yet? I recall some mention of their not signing top recruits in basketball. Is this true? That would be one price.

Chillduck
02-13-2015, 05:25 PM
This is why Carolina will never do anything to themselves concerning the academic scandal. Bubba Cunningham will never think he or Carolina has committed any transgressions. After the football team trashes the locker room with coaches present, he questions the amount of damage and the reasons it was made public. Every time I hear him speak or write, I think he can't act like a bigger idiot, then he outdoes himself. Carolina sports will never change with Bubba Cunningham as athletic director!

bedeviled
02-13-2015, 06:10 PM
“The University of North Carolina bore the cost of sandblasting these pillars and did not make public comments of the transgression. I acknowledge we have no idea who did this, but I simply included it to demonstrate that all fans, teams, coaches, students, etc. need to appreciate and respect the rivalry.”
He "simply includes" it? Wouldn't it have been simpler to NOT include it? Or simpler for him to be direct and say, "Everybody does it. Snitches get stitches. Let Willingham and Jackson Boyer be a lesson for ya."

BigWayne
02-13-2015, 07:30 PM
This is why Carolina will never do anything to themselves concerning the academic scandal. Bubba Cunningham will never think he or Carolina has committed any transgressions. After the football team trashes the locker room with coaches present, he questions the amount of damage and the reasons it was made public. Every time I hear him speak or write, I think he can't act like a bigger idiot, then he outdoes himself. Carolina sports will never change with Bubba Cunningham as athletic director!

Also, the PR stunt with the players meal money is amateurish. They start getting a bunch of mail from alumni asking why the players aren't doing the cleanup, so they tell some players to write a letter offering to pay for the damage by giving up their weekly meal check. However, the guy is not really sure how he is supposed to write it up, so he adds a bunch of ??? in the one part.

Tom B.
02-14-2015, 02:06 PM
I can think of some choice words for Cunningham right about now, but the one that seems most appropriate is "bush league." (OK, that's two words.) You're in a position of high authority, you're supposed to be the adult -- and this is how you "apologize?" Sheesh.

Also recall that when the Duke-Carolina game in Chapel Hill was postponed last year because of a snow and ice storm, Cunningham was the one who released a statement characterizing it as "Duke's decision to cancel the game," or some such nonsense. There were accidents everywhere, people were abandoning their cars on the highways, and the governor was on TV telling people to stay off the roads, but Cunningham just couldn't resist taking a backhanded swipe.

What a petulant, passive-aggressive, petty little weasel turd of a man. With "leadership" like that, it's no wonder that the place is a scandal-ridden cesspool.

semper phi 78
02-14-2015, 02:10 PM
It seems to me that $27,000 for carpet replacement and repainting walls is a BARGAIN versus shelling out $1.5 million (and counting) to keep banners in place out at the Dean Dome!

Duvall
02-14-2015, 02:13 PM
I can think of some choice words for Cunningham right about now, but the one that seems most appropriate is "bush league." (OK, that's two words.) You're in a position of high authority, you're supposed to be the adult -- and this is how you "apologize?" Sheesh.

Also recall that when the Duke-Carolina game in Chapel Hill was postponed last year because of a snow and ice storm, Cunningham was the one who released a statement characterizing it as "Duke's decision to cancel the game," or some such nonsense. There were accidents everywhere, people were abandoning their cars on the highways, and the governor was on TV telling people to stay off the roads, but Cunningham just couldn't resist taking a backhanded swipe.

What a petulant, passive-aggressive, petty little weasel turd of a man.

Those words all seem appropriate as well.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-14-2015, 02:18 PM
I can think of some choice words for Cunningham right about now, but the one that seems most appropriate is "bush league." (OK, that's two words.) You're in a position of high authority, you're supposed to be the adult -- and this is how you "apologize?" Sheesh.

Also recall that when the Duke-Carolina game in Chapel Hill was postponed last year because of a snow and ice storm, Cunningham was the one who released a statement characterizing it as "Duke's decision to cancel the game," or some such nonsense. There were accidents everywhere, people were abandoning their cars on the highways, and the governor was on TV telling people to stay off the roads, but Cunningham just couldn't resist taking a backhanded swipe.

What a petulant, passive-aggressive, petty little weasel turd of a man.
Yep just like their obsession with the Lance Thomas affair... They can never own up to anything. They'd rather just try to point out that everyone else is as bad as they are. So pathetic to see adults behave like third graders.

OldPhiKap
02-17-2015, 09:36 PM
Bttt. 9F.