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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 86, Toledo 69 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
12-29-2014, 09:00 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 09:05 PM
LOL @ SportsCenter about K.

"Can you imagine if win #1000 was against Rick Pitino? It would be pretty cool."

Good to see the the two Jays, Bilas and Williams, setting the right atmosphere at ESPN. :)

Edouble
12-29-2014, 09:10 PM
LOL @ SportsCenter about K.

"Can you imagine if win #1000 was against Rick Pitino? It would be pretty cool."

Good to see the the two Jays, Bilas and Williams, setting the right atmosphere at ESPN. :)

Maybe I'm missing something, but Jay Williams and Jay Bilas were not the announcers in studio that said that following the game. :confused:

hurleyfor3
12-29-2014, 09:13 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but Jay Williams and Jay Bilas were not the announcers in studio that said that following the game. :confused:

There was some sort of girl talking about basketball, which confused me.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 09:16 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but Jay Williams and Jay Bilas were not the announcers in studio that said that following the game. :confused:

No, I'm saying that Bilas and Williams must be spreading the Duke gospel among the other announcers.

OldPhiKap
12-29-2014, 09:20 PM
No, I'm saying that Bilas and Williams must be spreading the Duke gospel among the other announcers.

Len Elmore didn't get the memo.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 09:20 PM
There was some sort of girl talking about basketball, which confused me.

Were you a BOGger?

:)

jipops
12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
Sure hope this isn't the level of D actually going in to ACC play. I don't have a shot chart but it seemed like a majority of Toledo's shots were inside 5 feet. We also seem to continue to give up a number of transition buckets.

Any possession that Okafor touches the ball is usually a good one.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
Len Elmore didn't get the memo.

Yeah he did. He just burned it in the fire of Duke hatred that lives in his heart.

kAzE
12-29-2014, 09:26 PM
Positives:
- Loved the way we fed Okafor in this game. This is how we need to attack people every game. He's so good at reading the defense and attacking in 1 on 1 situations and finding open shooters and cutters when he gets doubled. He just opens up opportunities everywhere on the floor.

- One of the guys who is benefiting the most from Okafor's presence is Cook. He was never a guy who could break down the defense with his own dribble, so getting wide open looks on passes from the paint and open driving lanes is really helping his efficiency. This has been his best year at Duke by far from an efficiency standpoint.

- Tyus Jones is arguably the best pure point guard in the country. Find me a better assist man playing college hoops right now. There isn't one.

Negatives:
- I thought our bench players didn't play as well as they usually do tonight. Marshall had a couple of nice plays, but Matt Jones and Sulaimon were not great. Jones had a couple of head scratching shot attempts in the lane, and Sulaimon had a couple of bad turnovers. I don't think it should affect anything long term, but the bench seemed to get very limited minutes tonight, even at the end of the game when it was pretty much over.

- Our defense was pathetic for a long stretch in the middle of the game. We got way too comfortable and let up. They were getting wide open layups off one on one situations on the perimeter and transition plays. We've got to hustle back in transition better, and just stay in front of guys. I think a graphic came up at one point that they had hit something like 13 of their last 15 shots . . . that's pretty embarrassing.

- Marshall came into the game a perfect 10-10 from the foul line, and went 2-4 in this game . . . noooooooooooo!

Happy holidays and go Duke!

bluenorth
12-29-2014, 09:30 PM
Sure hope this isn't the level of D actually going in to ACC play. I don't have a shot chart but it seemed like a majority of Toledo's shots were inside 5 feet. We also seem to continue to give up a number of transition buckets.

Any possession that Okafor touches the ball is usually a good one.

I agree. There didn't seem to be much interest in stopping the dribbler. Hopefully it was only the post-Christmas rust. On O the team seems to be defining their roles more and more.

Saratoga2
12-29-2014, 09:38 PM
I thought this game demonstrated great Duke strengths while showing we have some weaknesses. The greatest strength is that we have Jahlil and others do not. He is truly great inside talent and couldn't be stopped and barely slowed down. Get him the ball and more often than not he will either score or make a very good pass. He works hard on defense but is still developing that part of his game.

Perhaps the greatest weakness is that we don't have really quick guards so when we face one we have trouble keeping him out of the paint. It turns out that our quickdst guard is Rasheed and at times his quickness and length make him a tough defender. He also shows flashes of offesnsive brilliance but them make mistakes that make me wonder if he is just trying too hard and not thinking while he plays. Offensive fouls, fouls far from the basket have me want me to tell him to think. Maybe he can calm down and take his place as one of the most productive guards.

I thought both Tyus and Quinn had very good games although they sometimes had trouble keeping Toledo from penetrating. Matt is a good defender but not super quick and his offense has disappeared recently. I know he can be a better scorer but he has to get his confidence back while only taking good shots.

Justise is one guy who can counter opponents who use physicality and hustle inside, since he is a strong aggressive player and will not be intimidated inside. He has very good ball handling for his size as well. Of course Amile is sort of our silent but dependable defender. His offense was a little rusty tonight but he is essential to our success. Finally, MP3 took a while to get going but then he had several good plays later in the game that indicate he can contribute when Jahlil needs a break. He still has trouble matching the speed of some inside players we face, but he can use his size to cause opponents to have trouble finishing around the rim.

Clearly coach K has our best team starting and our best sixth man is Rasheed.

hurleyfor3
12-29-2014, 09:42 PM
Were you a BOGger?

Worse.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 10:01 PM
Worse.

PM sent.

Duvall
12-29-2014, 10:07 PM
Sure hope this isn't the level of D actually going in to ACC play. I don't have a shot chart but it seemed like a majority of Toledo's shots were inside 5 feet. We also seem to continue to give up a number of transition buckets.

I guess. Not many teams are going to beat Duke scoring less than a point per possession, though.

CDu
12-29-2014, 10:11 PM
This team has an amazing knack for doing just enough to win comfortably. Except for a few cases, we seem to sleepwalk through games on defense until we need to step up. Then, once threatened, we put our foot down just long enough to extinguish the threat. I don't know if it is just a youth thing or a hubris thing or what, but it is forming a bit of a trend. Tonight continued the trend.

We jumped out early and overwhelmed Toledo. Then we seemed to get complacent, allowing Toledo to ofcasionally get within striking distance. But every time Toledo got close, we would wake up and shut them down just long enough to get back to a double-digit lead.

I prefer the cutthroat/killer-instinct/dominant mindset of trying to win every possession. But as long as we keep winning, I will take this formula too.

Great game by Okafor. Toledo had nobody within the same hemisphere of talent and it showed. Tyus Jones was terrific as well offensively. Cook was a little sloppy with the ball but was pretty efficient scoring and hit some key buckets. Jefferson did a lot of the little things. Plumlee had a nice game too. Everyone else was kind of "meh" tonight.

Hopefully this was just the holiday hangover and inferior opponent syndrome. We will face a similar test Wednesday, so hopefully Coach will have the team on alert.

Still, nice to be able to win comfortably even when not playing at their best.

Billy Dat
12-29-2014, 10:29 PM
I thought this game demonstrated great Duke strengths while showing we have some weaknesses. The greatest strength is that we have Jahlil and others do not. He is truly great inside talent and couldn't be stopped and barely slowed down. Get him the ball and more often than not he will either score or make a very good pass. He works hard on defense but is still developing that part of his game.

Very well said. Jahlil is getting better and better. I fear that our offense is becoming too reliant on him, but what choice do we have? As you basically said, he must get the ball all the time for us to be as good as we can be. Enjoy him will we have him!



Our defense was pathetic for a long stretch in the middle of the game. We got way too comfortable and let up. They were getting wide open layups off one on one situations on the perimeter and transition plays. We've got to hustle back in transition better, and just stay in front of guys. I think a graphic came up at one point that they had hit something like 13 of their last 15 shots . . . that's pretty embarrassing.

I agree. There didn't seem to be much interest in stopping the dribbler. Hopefully it was only the post-Christmas rust. On O the team seems to be defining their roles more and more.

The defense was very inconsistent. The period you reference, it was really bad. But for stretches, I thought it was really good. We should credit Brown and Drummond - they were really tough to contain, and Weatherspoon was really good too. In the presser, K said we didn't defend the ball screens well during that stretch and a lot of it was lack of talking and no switching, stuff he said we had been doing instinctively, and well, for the first 8 games but that has fallen off a bit. He actually said the second half, after the first 4 minutes, was the best half we've played since Wisconsin.


Positives:
- One of the guys who is benefiting the most from Okafor's presence is Cook. He was never a guy who could break down the defense with his own dribble, so getting wide open looks on passes from the paint and open driving lanes is really helping his efficiency. This has been his best year at Duke by far from an efficiency standpoint.

- Tyus Jones is arguably the best pure point guard in the country. Find me a better assist man playing college hoops right now. There isn't one.

- I thought our bench players didn't play as well as they usually do tonight. Marshall had a couple of nice plays, but Matt Jones and Sulaimon were not great. Jones had a couple of head scratching shot attempts in the lane, and Sulaimon had a couple of bad turnovers. I don't think it should affect anything long term, but the bench seemed to get very limited minutes tonight, even at the end of the game when it was pretty much over.

- Marshall came into the game a perfect 10-10 from the foul line, and went 2-4 in this game . . . noooooooooooo!

-One of the guys benefiting the most from Okafor's presence is :p
-I love T.Jones on the offensive end, although I would have sworn that he had more than one turnover tonight, but his perimeter D is pretty weak. He [I]is only a freshman which is easy to forget with lines like 15 pts, 8 assists, 4 boards and 9-9 from the stripe.
-I actually thought the bench was OK. I didn't like Rasheed's 3 turnovers, but he and Jones each got 17-18 minutes, and while Marshall only played a few, he made his presence known with that inbounds dunk, some free throws, etc. I thought K used the bench more than I thought he would considering that the game felt close up until the final 2 minutes. I like when Matt Jones drives, he needs to show that look more often.
-Marshall and Jah only went 50% from the line, but Quinn and Tyus were a perfect 15-15 combined.
-Justise was solid tonight, I want to see him keep taking it to the hole.

Jah Rules, baby, Jah Rules.

gurufrisbee
12-29-2014, 11:50 PM
Toledo had a lot of talent and experience and was not going to be a team that just rolled over because it was Cameron or future NBA first round picks or because they got down by a few baskets. The days were the Duke aura just won games on it own are long gone. If Okafor is only here for one year, let's give him the rock EVERY SINGLE TIME. Thank you.

Duvall
12-30-2014, 12:12 AM
Toledo had a lot of talent and experience and was not going to be a team that just rolled over because it was Cameron or future NBA first round picks or because they got down by a few baskets. The days were the Duke aura just won games on it own are long gone.

November? I guess it is gone, to be sure.

Furniture
12-30-2014, 12:24 AM
I agree. There didn't seem to be much interest in stopping the dribbler. Hopefully it was only the post-Christmas rust. On O the team seems to be defining their roles more and more.

Once again Duke won by double digits.....the glass is half full....

Edouble
12-30-2014, 03:54 AM
Toledo had a lot of talent and experience and was not going to be a team that just rolled over because it was Cameron or future NBA first round picks or because they got down by a few baskets. The days were the Duke aura just won games on it own are long gone. If Okafor is only here for one year, let's give him the rock EVERY SINGLE TIME. Thank you.

What if he's here for two years? Hold back on his possessions?

I thought that Quinn had a really nice game. A quiet 20 points, 9 in the first half, 11 in the second. He played 37 minutes, anchoring the point for a few "bench heavy" looks when Tyus and Jah were both out.

Quinn had two really dumb turnovers and four fouls, but shot 50% overall. I was surprised to hear that he is up to 94% from the line for the year.

As a team, we were an acceptable 22-30 from the line, with Quinn (9-9) and Tyus (6-6) combining for half of our free throws.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
12-30-2014, 07:11 AM
Len Elmore didn't get the memo.

Can't the ACC be done with this clown, he went on what seemed like a 10 minute tirade about how much better Virginia is than Duke. I mean I get it, Virginia is a great team, but dang bro no need to go on and on about it. Its like he is actively rooting against Duke when he announces Duke games. I'm surprised he didn't throw in a quote like, "And if Maryland was still in the ACC, they would give Duke problems"

Ok rant over

roywhite
12-30-2014, 07:11 AM
As a team, we were an acceptable 22-30 from the line, with Quinn (9-9) and Tyus (6-6) combining for half of our free throws.

Looking at season FT% figures for our starters leads to some interesting considerations for opposing teams in late game situations:

Quinn Cook 95.5% FT
Tyus Jones 86.0%
Justise Winslow 57.1%
Amile 57.6%
Jahlil 50.9%

Last night, Toledo fouled Quinn and Tyus as they attempted to come back late, and the Blue Devil guards hit every free throw. Will another team be more purposeful and make sure to foul someone other than Quinn and Tyus? Do we bring in Rasheed who is hitting 73.1% from the line as a third ball handler/shooter?

jv001
12-30-2014, 07:30 AM
Looking at season FT% figures for our starters leads to some interesting considerations for opposing teams in late game situations:

Quinn Cook 95.5% FT
Tyus Jones 86.0%
Justise Winslow 57.1%
Amile 57.6%
Jahlil 50.9%

Last night, Toledo fouled Quinn and Tyus as they attempted to come back late, and the Blue Devil guards hit every free throw. Will another team be more purposeful and make sure to foul someone other than Quinn and Tyus? Do we bring in Rasheed who is hitting 73.1% from the line as a third ball handler/shooter?

Good observation. Coach K has brought in Rasheed and sat down Amile on occasion and sat down Jah late in the game, when teams were fouling. I can't figure out why Winslow is not a better free throw shooter. He seems to have very good form on his shot. You bring up a good question, why not foul the poor shooters instead of the best foul shooters? GoDuke!

Bob Green
12-30-2014, 08:18 AM
You bring up a good question, why not foul the poor shooters instead of the best foul shooters? GoDuke!

One factor is the best foul shooters have the ball in their hands the majority of the time.

Saratoga2
12-30-2014, 09:02 AM
Good observation. Coach K has brought in Rasheed and sat down Amile on occasion and sat down Jah late in the game, when teams were fouling. I can't figure out why Winslow is not a better free throw shooter. He seems to have very good form on his shot. You bring up a good question, why not foul the poor shooters instead of the best foul shooters? GoDuke!

It is kind of a catch 22 situation, bring him in late to get a little better free throw shooting and risk a high turnover rate and unthinking fouls. Rasheed has the tools to be very effective but I think he tries too hard out there (rushes around without seeing the game) and gets into negative situations. He would do well to slow his game down a little and look to do what he is equipped to do well. He is long, agile, quick and tough. I am hoping to add the adjective smart, but so far it doesn't fit.

alteran
12-30-2014, 09:07 AM
It is kind of a catch 22 situation, bring him in late to get a little better free throw shooting and risk a high turnover rate and unthinking fouls. Rasheed has the tools to be very effective but I think he tries too hard out there (rushes around without seeing the game) and gets into negative situations. He would do well to slow his game down a little and look to do what he is equipped to do well. He is long, agile, quick and tough. I am hoping to add the adjective smart, but so far it doesn't fit.

It seems to me that Rasheed gets into trouble because he's a slashing guard being used as a point. So he drives-- more than he should-- to start the offense with a dish or shot.

This wouldn't apply in end game situations where he is being brought in for his free throw shooting.

JMHO.

gumbomoop
12-30-2014, 09:08 AM
Looking at season FT% figures for our starters leads to some interesting considerations for opposing teams in late game situations:

Quinn Cook 95.5% FT
Tyus Jones 86.0%
Justise Winslow 57.1%
Amile 57.6%
Jahlil 50.9%

Last night, Toledo fouled Quinn and Tyus as they attempted to come back late, and the Blue Devil guards hit every free throw. Will another team be more purposeful and make sure to foul someone other than Quinn and Tyus? Do we bring in Rasheed who is hitting 73.1% from the line as a third ball handler/shooter?

Glad you bring this up. I commented a week or so back on the Phase 2 thread about the FT % of Justise, Amile, and Jahlil. I repeat here my concern.

This is really a Phase 3 and beyond concern. I'm a little worried about the relatively low FT % of Jahlil, Justise, and Amile. The biggest concern would be that some teams will hack-a-Jahlil if his FT % stays down near 50%. But even in the absence of such a blatant strategy, Duke might drop an otherwise clearly winnable game or two if these 3 guys don't consistently get close to 67%.

I'm not so much concerned about protecting, say, a 5-7 point lead in the final 2 minutes, as Quinn, Tyus, and Rasheed would have the ball. But against good teams, it's conceivable that Duke will occasionally have trouble actually having a late lead, if our 3 mediocre FT shooters have missed more than a few that game.

I wouldn't want to see those 3 struggling down around 55-60% halfway through conference play.

sagegrouse
12-30-2014, 09:12 AM
Can't the ACC be done with this clown, he went on what seemed like a 10 minute tirade about how much better Virginia is than Duke. I mean I get it, Virginia is a great team, but dang bro no need to go on and on about it. Its like he is actively rooting against Duke when he announces Duke games. I'm surprised he didn't throw in a quote like, "And if Maryland was still in the ACC, they would give Duke problems"

Ok rant over

And then, commenting on Duke's more compact defense against the pick-and-roll, he referred to "a couple of losses" in the early years with Team USA when teams took advantage of the USA defense. Well, let's see... there's Greece in 2006. Gee, I can't think of any others. Team USA is something like 52-1 at the Olympics, FIBA worlds, and FIBA Americas (2007) after K became coach in 2006.

sagegrouse
12-30-2014, 09:25 AM
As someone else pointed out in an e-mail to me, Marshall missed his first 14 free throws last year, before making one. And, this year, MP3 made his first 11 free throws before missing one.

If this is true, can we agree that this has never happened in the history of college basketball? A player's missing ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of one year and then making ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of the next year.

Neals384
12-30-2014, 09:41 AM
As someone else pointed out in an e-mail to me, Marshall missed his first 14 free throws last year, before making one. And, this year, MP3 made his first 11 free throws before missing one.

If this is true, can we agree that this has never happened in the history of college basketball? A player's missing ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of one year and then making ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of the next year.

And ESPN jinxed him by putting up the graphic that he was 100% from the line this year (and 25% last year).

Atldukie79
12-30-2014, 09:43 AM
As someone else pointed out in an e-mail to me, Marshall missed his first 14 free throws last year, before making one. And, this year, MP3 made his first 11 free throws before missing one.

If this is true, can we agree that this has never happened in the history of college basketball? A player's missing ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of one year and then making ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of the next year.

I would agree that you are likely accurate about the "missed ten FTs/ made ten FTs" assertion...but for good measure, let's consider that in addition to that claim, how many others can claim to be the 3rd 7 foot brother to play for the same college, or how many 7 footers in major college basketball are also in ROTC?

I love me some Marshall.

DukieInBrasil
12-30-2014, 10:02 AM
As someone else pointed out in an e-mail to me, Marshall missed his first 14 free throws last year, before making one. And, this year, MP3 made his first 11 free throws before missing one.

If this is true, can we agree that this has never happened in the history of college basketball? A player's missing ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of one year and then making ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of the next year.

With no factual basis, I will agree with you!

As for the game, Jah was great, and it's good to see the team make such a concerted effort to make the offense run through him. Quinn was solid, and paired with Tyus it's gonna be difficult for teams to shake Duke at the FT line late in games this year.
Tyus was also excellent, but really only down the stretch. It seems like he was passing the ball fine in the early going but didn't look to score. This is an issue i think the coaching staff needs to address with him: he seldom looks to get his own offense unless Duke is in a funk, but Duke becomes much better when he is in a more offensive mood (this may be a chicken-egg thing). The similarities to Tyler Ennis (SYR last year) become more apparent as the season wears on: great ballhandler, excellent passer, runs the team well and really can take over a game at the end, but seldom does so prior to the end.
The Sulaimon-as-back-up-PG experiment is gonna have to come to an end, especially if he can't get his turnovers under control. He seems to play back-up PG pretty well against weaker competition, but he is very turnover prone against even decent players.
Amile didn't score much, but rebounded well. If teams double Jahlil, he'll get more chances to score, that wasn't the case last night.
Winslow had a good game i thought, didn't seem like he forced things, and ended up doing a little bit of everything. He needs to get his FT shooting situation under control, because he becomes a much more valuable player if he can get more freebies.
MP3's production was very solid in such limited minutes.
Matt Jones and Grayson Allen didn't give us much to talk about. I'm guessing the M.Jones will continue to get minutes with his defense, but it looks like his offense is returning to last year's form.

oldnavy
12-30-2014, 11:33 AM
One factor is the best foul shooters have the ball in their hands the majority of the time.

That is what I was thinking as well, but then I thought why not foul off the ball in a non-flagrant manner??

An opposing big could just body up Jah and maybe wrap his arm up when Jah tries to move around him.... seems simple enough right?

We see off the ball fouls a lot... I wouldn't be surprised to see this tactic in closer games as we move through conference play.

Edouble
12-30-2014, 02:16 PM
As someone else pointed out in an e-mail to me, Marshall missed his first 14 free throws last year, before making one. And, this year, MP3 made his first 11 free throws before missing one.

If this is true, can we agree that this has never happened in the history of college basketball? A player's missing ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of one year and then making ten or more free throws in a row at the beginning of the next year.

Hmmm... Hank Gathers when he went to the left hand? I know he really turned it around, but maybe the movie made it seem more dramatic than it really was.

CDu
12-30-2014, 02:30 PM
Hmmm... Hank Gathers when he went to the left hand? I know he really turned it around, but maybe the movie made it seem more dramatic than it really was.

He was pretty bad with either hand, though not 0% bad with either hand.

Bo Kimble, on the other hand, hit all of his left-handed attempts as a tribute to Gathers after Gathers' died.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 02:37 PM
That is what I was thinking as well, but then I thought why not foul off the ball in a non-flagrant manner??

An opposing big could just body up Jah and maybe wrap his arm up when Jah tries to move around him.... seems simple enough right?

We see off the ball fouls a lot... I wouldn't be surprised to see this tactic in closer games as we move through conference play.

Desperate and risky.

A team only has so many fouls to give before players are DQ'd, and if your big guys are the first to go, it can make for trouble. Plus, the first of those fouls in each half just give the ball back to Duke out of bounds. Maybe in end of game situations it could be plausible. But even then you are giving up easy points (say 1 per possession on average) instead of playing for stops. And if the game is close, why not go for the stops and hope that works? Plus, you can't count on Jah to miss FT's in any given situation just because his average is 51%.

P.S. I'd like to see refs call more intentional fouls, esp. when we all know what's really going on. But that horse is battered and decomposing.

jimsumner
12-30-2014, 02:50 PM
Remember the beginning of last season, when hand-checking was the point of emphasis and officials darn near wore out their whistles? Then things gradually returned to normal.

Last night was a return to that. The game was called quite tightly, both ways. Both teams figured it out and drove inside with relative impunity.

Was that an officiating aberration? We'll see, I suppose.

Duke experimented late with an Okaforless, Jeffersonless lineup, Winslow, both Joneses, Cook and Sulaimon. I assume K was experimenting with a foul-shooting-when-it-matters-lineup for down the road. if Duke can keep sending Cook and Ty Jones to the line down the stretch, it should turn out okay. But that's a big if.

CajunDevil
12-30-2014, 04:28 PM
Watching games at Cameron while students are on break is painful. Seeing multiple players waving their arms to get the crowd involved after several nice plays is embarrassing. I can't wait until the students are back...

CDu
12-30-2014, 04:34 PM
Watching games at Cameron while students are on break is painful. Seeing multiple players waving their arms to get the crowd involved after several nice plays is embarrassing. I can't wait until the students are back...

I don't think insulting the folks who paid to go see the game is appropriate. Especially considering that student attendance/apathy for lesser games (even conference games) has been an issue for over a decade now.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 04:39 PM
I don't think insulting the folks who paid to go see the game is appropriate. Especially considering that student attendance/apathy for lesser games (even conference games) has been an issue for over a decade now.

I missed the insult thingy.

It's a fact that the students make for a special crowd. Old farts (like me) have never brought the intensity that the Crazies do. We complained about that 35 years ago.

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 04:55 PM
I missed the insult thingy.

It's a fact that the students make for a special crowd. Old farts (like me) have never brought the intensity that the Crazies do. We complained about that 35 years ago.

I think the difference is, when we were in school the students packed the place. I am not sure that is true anymore. While I cannot burn the fuel that a 20 year old can anymore, I think that you and I probably have more yell and passion than a lot of current students. And I say that as a sad thing, not a braggy thing.

Students like Native are great, and do what we used to but probably cannot anymore. I just think that the number of Natives is much lower than it was back in the day.

And of course, our music was better and you better get of my damned lawn. But I digress.

CDu
12-30-2014, 05:06 PM
I think the difference is, when we were in school the students packed the place. I am not sure that is true anymore. While I cannot burn the fuel that a 20 year old can anymore, I think that you and I probably have more yell and passion than a lot of current students. And I say that as a sad thing, not a braggy thing.

Students like Native are great, and do what we used to but probably cannot anymore. I just think that the number of Natives is much lower than it was back in the day.

And of course, our music was better and you better get of my damned lawn. But I digress.

No doubt that for Syracuse, UNC, etc., the students bring more. But for darn near 15 years now the students haven't brought it outside of the marquee games. Heck, the last few years they have had to open the student section to the public for many an ACC game because the students weren't attending.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 05:08 PM
I think the difference is, when we were in school the students packed the place. I am not sure that is true anymore. While I cannot burn the fuel that a 20 year old can anymore, I think that you and I probably have more yell and passion than a lot of current students. And I say that as a sad thing, not a braggy thing.

Students like Native are great, and do what we used to but probably cannot anymore. I just think that the number of Natives is much lower than it was back in the day.

And of course, our music was better and you better get of my damned lawn. But I digress.

Yeah, it was a b**ch to walk up hill in the snow for all those miles, scream our lungs out, then walk up hill in the snow all the way home with nothing but a lump of dry poison to sustain us. And we who had that lump of dry poison were the lucky ones.

Didn't know about any downturn in student intensity or attendance. Is true? All I hear is that being a Line Monitor or having a low tent number is treated like a resume item.

jimsumner
12-30-2014, 05:09 PM
Watching games at Cameron while students are on break is painful. Seeing multiple players waving their arms to get the crowd involved after several nice plays is embarrassing. I can't wait until the students are back...

I thought the crowd was pretty loud last night, especially in the second half, when Duke had some fast-break baskets. And it was quite full for a December 29 game.

DukeFanSince1990
12-30-2014, 05:13 PM
Paraphased Len Elmore commentary: "Duke doesn't sweat much for a fat guy"

Kedsy
12-30-2014, 05:16 PM
Didn't know about any downturn in student intensity or attendance. Is true?

Well, the students only get one side of the court now (in my day we filled both sides), and you still occasionally hear Coach K complaining about the students not filling their seats. So my guess (without having any numbers to back it up) is there has been a downturn.

CDu
12-30-2014, 05:24 PM
Yeah, it was a b**ch to walk up hill in the snow for all those miles, scream our lungs out, then walk up hill in the snow all the way home with nothing but a lump of dry poison to sustain us. And we who had that lump of dry poison were the lucky ones.

Didn't know about any downturn in student intensity or attendance. Is true? All I hear is that being a Line Monitor or having a low tent number is treated like a resume item.

Sadly it is true. For a variety of reasonable reasons. The proof is in the sale of student section seats in recent years. But as a student at the turn of the century, I walked into many a game at gametime and got good "seats."

uh_no
12-30-2014, 05:30 PM
to be fair, the students have been mostly excellent this year....even in these terrible cupcake affairs....generally packing their allotment (aside from seats sold...) and being loud even as the game is out of hand

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 06:15 PM
Yeah, it was a b**ch to walk up hill in the snow for all those miles, scream our lungs out, then walk up hill in the snow all the way home with nothing but a lump of dry poison to sustain us. And we who had that lump of dry poison were the lucky ones.

Didn't know about any downturn in student intensity or attendance. Is true? All I hear is that being a Line Monitor or having a low tent number is treated like a resume item.

Not to digress, but here is a video a friend took the last time devildeac, Henderson, myself and Newton_14 (left to right) all got together. Good times.

http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo

Henderson
12-30-2014, 06:27 PM
Not to digress, but here is a video a friend took the last time devildeac, Henderson, myself and Newton_14 (left to right) all got together. Good times.

http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo

Those were the days. But who were the sods laughing? Probably the kids I paid to hang out on your lawn.

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 06:38 PM
Those were the days. But who were the sods laughing? Probably the kids I paid to hang out on your lawn.

So YOU'RE to blame for that. Don't make me go all Gran Torino on you.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 07:11 PM
So YOU'RE to blame for that. Don't make me go all Gran Torino on you.

Ooh, you got to see Gran Torino? You were lucky. All we had was The Interview. In black and white. In Korean.

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 07:16 PM
Ooh, you got to see Gran Torino? You were lucky. All we had was The Interview. In black and white. In Korean.

Luxury.

We had to stare at the Sun, run out eyes, and pretend that the patterns we saw was a movie. And we were thankful for it.

And I never saw Gran Torino, all I got to see was Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair. But that's a different story.

NSDukeFan
12-30-2014, 07:43 PM
Not to digress, but here is a video a friend took the last time devildeac, Henderson, myself and Newton_14 (left to right) all got together. Good times.

http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo

Man, you guys had it rough.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 07:49 PM
Luxury.

We had to stare at the Sun, run out eyes, and pretend that the patterns we saw was a movie. And we were thankful for it.

And I never saw Gran Torino, all I got to see was Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair. But that's a different story.

Your planet had a sun?

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 08:01 PM
Your planet had a sun?

Well, it was a candle that we had to run around as quickly as possible in order to keep warm. But it was a Sun to us, and we we're thankful to have it.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 08:26 PM
Well, it was a candle that we had to run around as quickly as possible in order to keep warm. But it was a Sun to us, and we we're thankful to have it.

A real candle? Must have been nice. We had a firefly. Until one of the kids i hired to stand on your lawn ripped its thorax off and stuck it on his finger like a ring ornament. After that, it was back to smiling as brightly as we could to stay warm. We did make a nice roast for Thanksgiving out of the other half though. Like Mom always said, you can't eat well all year, but it's nice to have half a firefly on a holiday.

Do Duke students still get their annual half-a-firefly at Thanksgiving like we did?

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 08:34 PM
A real candle? Must have been nice. We had a firefly. Until one of the kids i hired to stand on your lawn ripped its thorax off and stuck it on his finger like a ring ornament. After that, it was back to smiling as brightly as we could to stay warm. We did make a nice roast for Thanksgiving out of the other half though. Like Mom always said, you can't eat well all year, but it's nice to have half a firefly on a holiday.

Do Duke students still get their annual half-a-firefly at Thanksgiving like we did?

We dreamed of having half a firefly for Thanksgiving. Our mum would fry firefly droppings in warm spittle by putting it in her armpit and going down to the mill for her 18-hour shift. It was dry and nasty -- but we were thankful for it.

Try telling this to the kids at Duke today, though, and they wouldn't believe it.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 08:51 PM
We dreamed of having half a firefly for Thanksgiving. Our mum would fry firefly droppings in warm spittle by putting it in her armpit and going down to the mill for her 18-hour shift. It was dry and nasty -- but we were thankful for it.

Try telling this to the kids at Duke today, though, and they wouldn't believe it.

Oh sure, rub that whole "warm spittle in the armpit" thing in our faces. We knew you hoity toity rich kids would bring it up one day. We may not have had all that, but we had love.

I'll admit it was tough love, but a chainsaw to your neck builds character. Which is why Duke students today don't go to games. Spare the chainsaw, spoil the child. That's my motto.

That and "Go stand on OPK's lawn, or no crusty phlegm for you tonight!"

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 09:09 PM
Oh sure, rub that whole "warm spittle in the armpit" thing in our faces. We knew you hoity toity rich kids would bring it up one day. We may not have had all that, but we had love.

I'll admit it was tough love, but a chainsaw to your neck builds character. Which is why Duke students today don't go to games. Spare the chainsaw, spoil the child. That's my motto.

That and "Go stand on OPK's lawn, or no crusty phlegm for you tonight!"

Our mum loved us so much, she cut the crust off of our phlegm sandwiches.

Henderson
12-30-2014, 09:18 PM
Our mum loved us so much, she cut the crust off of our phlegm sandwiches.

Hmm. Might be a good t-shirt.

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 09:19 PM
Hmm. Might be a good t-shirt.

Or tattoo . . . .

Henderson
12-30-2014, 09:21 PM
Or tattoo . . . .

Juarez road trip!

jipops
12-30-2014, 09:26 PM
I guess. Not many teams are going to beat Duke scoring less than a point per possession, though.

Yup. And we only dropped two slots in the kenpom D efficiency so it may not have been quite as bad as it looked to me. Still, the intensity has had a tendency to wane, not that this is a problem unique to our team. This may not be as much of a problem with ACC foes...shouldn't be.

jtheall
12-31-2014, 02:27 AM
- Pretty rusty after the second-longest break of the season. Same thing happened with the Elon game, so I'm not terribly concerned. Toledo is a good team, though (Kenpom #88).

- Tyus Jones has a knack for the 3-and-1 play. I've never seen anyone nail that more consistently than he does. Does anyone here know if this is an official stat? It'd be interesting to compare him with other players (I have a feeling J-Williams might be in there).

- Len Elmore gets honorary MVP for this game (closely followed by the Black and Blue Power Rangers in the stands). As always, thanks for the laughs, Len.

Marc81
12-31-2014, 06:23 AM
- Len Elmore gets honorary MVP for this game (closely followed by the Black and Blue Power Rangers in the stands). As always, thanks for the laughs, Len.[/QUOTE]


Yes but as long as he knows we are not laughing with him but at him.

Indoor66
12-31-2014, 08:50 AM
Your planet had a sun?

I was on the third rock... You?