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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. Toledo (Monday 12/29 7 pm ET ESPN2) Pre-Game & In-Game Thread



Bob Green
12-28-2014, 03:11 PM
The 7-4 Rockets visit Cameron Indoor Stadium tomorrow evening. Discuss the game here.

Henderson
12-28-2014, 03:19 PM
Should be a walkover, but Wofford looks potentially dangerous. What do you call the trap game before the trap game?

MChambers
12-28-2014, 04:41 PM
Should be a walkover, but Wofford looks potentially dangerous. What do you call the trap game before the trap game?
Toledo is 98th in Pomeroy, so I doubt it will be a walkover. 35th in offense but 198 in defense.

Krzyzewskiville
12-28-2014, 05:03 PM
I'll be going to the game tomorrow, anybody have suggestions of any good Duke-friendly (like Duke posters, and stuff) restaurants/bars?

wsb3
12-28-2014, 05:52 PM
Looking forward to going to the game. It will be the first game that I have seen in Cameron in quite some time.

Native
12-28-2014, 07:56 PM
I'll be going to the game tomorrow, anybody have suggestions of any good Duke-friendly (like Duke posters, and stuff) restaurants/bars?

The Washington Duke is a short walk from Cameron and is always a good pre-game spot. A lot of Duke notables — former players, for instance — will tend to hang out in the bar area before and after games.

The Bryan Center is the student union on campus and is just across Towerview Road from Cameron. Food options in the Bryan Center include The Loop — which also serves alcohol in the downstairs bar area after 5PM, if that's your thing — an Au Bon Pain, Panda Express, Red Mango, and a McDonalds.

Off-campus: good student bars around Main Street in downtown Durham are Satisfaction, Alivia's, Devine's, James Joyce, and Federal, the latter two of which are attended by graduate students and typically have an older crowd. If you're looking for the most "Duke-friendly" of bars, you'll want to head to Satisfaction or Devine's. Tobacco Road across from the DBAP is a little more high-end, but the number of TVs and the leather-chair seating area makes it the best place to watch a game, IMO.

Durham is a great restaurant town — Dame's Chicken and Waffles, Pizzeria Toro, Pompieri Pizza, Bull City Burger, Q Shack, and Nanataco are all excellent, but aren't necessarily places to watch a game.

brevity
12-28-2014, 08:23 PM
What do you call the trap game before the trap game?

Good question...

4611

Sorry. I know how you feel about Star Wars references within the context of Duke basketball. (Actually, that's kind of why I responded.)

devildeac
12-28-2014, 08:52 PM
I'll be going to the game tomorrow, anybody have suggestions of any good Duke-friendly (like Duke posters, and stuff) restaurants/bars?

This might be helpful, too, especially with a Native helping with its organization and compilation:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=page&template=DBRVisit

;)

Henderson
12-28-2014, 11:25 PM
Good question...

4611

Sorry. I know how you feel about Star Wars references within the context of Duke basketball. (Actually, that's kind of why I responded.)

How did you get a photo of my brother in law?

devildeac
12-29-2014, 07:45 AM
How did you get a photo of my brother in law?

One of my brothers-in law visits/posts here on rare, rare occasions. No comment.:o

Duke3517
12-29-2014, 08:58 AM
K should tell his starters to just show up and they will win.

duketaylor
12-29-2014, 09:15 AM
Should have included Devine's as a restaurant worthy of consideration, Gene is very nice and played fball back in the 70's.

http://www.devinesdurham.com/Home.aspx

NSDukeFan
12-29-2014, 09:28 AM
K should tell his starters to just show up and they will win.

I don't know exactly what coach K's strategy will be, but I am pretty sure this won't be it. I think he will come up with something that is more likely to result in a win, and hopefully we will see the bench make some valuable contributions as well. Toledo is ranked around where the mid to bottom tier ACC teams are ranked and lots of crazy results happen in conference play, so I think they will present a nice post-Christmas challenge.

Kedsy
12-29-2014, 09:32 AM
Toledo is ranked around where the mid to bottom tier ACC teams are ranked and lots of crazy results happen in conference play, so I think they will present a nice post-Christmas challenge.

Pomeroy rates Toledo (#97) better than five ACC teams: Wake (#123), FSU (#124), Clemson (#127), BC (#136), and Va Tech (#177).

For what it's worth, our next opponent (Wofford) is even better, ranked #88, one spot above Georgia Tech.

uh_no
12-29-2014, 09:44 AM
Pomeroy rates Toledo (#97) better than five ACC teams: Wake (#123), FSU (#124), Clemson (#127), BC (#136), and Va Tech (#177).

For what it's worth, our next opponent (Wofford) is even better, ranked #88, one spot above Georgia Tech.

it's certainly designed to be warming up to conference play. Good scheduling I think.

pfrduke
12-29-2014, 10:08 AM
Pomeroy rates Toledo (#97) better than five ACC teams: Wake (#123), FSU (#124), Clemson (#127), BC (#136), and Va Tech (#177).

For what it's worth, our next opponent (Wofford) is even better, ranked #88, one spot above Georgia Tech.

Hard to know how accurate that number is for Toledo. The best that can really be said about their performance so far this year is that they didn't lose by too much when they played at VCU and Oregon (9 and 10 point losses, respectively). The best opponent they beat is Cleveland State (ranked #134), and that was just a 5-point win, albeit one coming on the road. None of their other 6 wins come against a team ranked in the top 50% and they've also dropped games to #159 Detroit (at home, no less) and #205 Oakland. They've seen their biggest ranking jumps come after a 28-point win over Chicago State and a 26-point win over Robert Morris - those are nice, but I bet there are more than 100 teams that could accomplish those victories.

NSDukeFan
12-29-2014, 10:25 AM
Hard to know how accurate that number is for Toledo. The best that can really be said about their performance so far this year is that they didn't lose by too much when they played at VCU and Oregon (9 and 10 point losses, respectively). The best opponent they beat is Cleveland State (ranked #134), and that was just a 5-point win, albeit one coming on the road. None of their other 6 wins come against a team ranked in the top 50% and they've also dropped games to #159 Detroit (at home, no less) and #205 Oakland. They've seen their biggest ranking jumps come after a 28-point win over Chicago State and a 26-point win over Robert Morris - those are nice, but I bet there are more than 100 teams that could accomplish those victories.

A couple of years ago, I believe Robert Morris played a nice game against Kentucky. http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=330780096

Kedsy
12-29-2014, 10:34 AM
Hard to know how accurate that number is for Toledo.

I agree, but if you look at the performance to-date of, e.g., Wake Forest or Florida State, Toledo compares pretty favorably. In other words, the idea that Toledo is better than one-third of the ACC might be saying more about the bottom of the ACC than it does about Toledo.

gurufrisbee
12-29-2014, 10:53 AM
Toledo scares the crap out of me. Yes, they are a mid-major and yes they are only 7-4, but they've won five in a row. Two losses were by 2 and 3 points and the other two were only by 9 and 10 AT Oregon and AT VCU. They return everyone except for one starter from last year's 27 win, NIT team. All five starters are averaging double figures. Their senior point guard looks terrific. Two other senior, returning starters on the wings are playing great. Their junior returning center looks to actually have the size to battle in the paint. And it's possible tonight is when Mississippi St transfer Dre Applewhite is finally eligible to play (he was starting as a freshman there last year when he left for Toledo). Toledo is absolutely a team last year that I had high on my list to watch for as a great pick for early round upsetting in the next NCAA tournament.

pfrduke
12-29-2014, 11:24 AM
A couple of years ago, I believe Robert Morris played a nice game against Kentucky. http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=330780096

Sure, but 173 of the 200 Colonial minutes played in that game were by guys who are no longer on the team. This year's version already has 6 double-digit losses, 3 of which were by 26 or more.

pfrduke
12-29-2014, 11:32 AM
I agree, but if you look at the performance to-date of, e.g., Wake Forest or Florida State, Toledo compares pretty favorably. In other words, the idea that Toledo is better than one-third of the ACC might be saying more about the bottom of the ACC than it does about Toledo.

Completely agree that their resume is comparable to or better than FSU, Virginia Tech, and Wake. I think Clemson and BC may have better resumes to date - both unquestionably have better wins (Arkansas, LSU; Providence, New Mexico; respectively) and BC's worse loss (4 at home to USC) is better than Toledo's. The real difference between the two is that BC has been less dominant against the really bad teams than Toledo has. Clemson probably has had some worse losses (although Winthrop at home/Gardner-Webb neutral isn't that much worse than Detroit at home/Oakland away), and the real distinguishing point between them and Toledo was the degree of beat down South Carolina put on the Tigers.

But this is all picking at nits - these teams are relatively interchangeable. Toledo probably is a bottom quartile ACC-level opponent, which is a game we should win at home but still a potential challenge.

NSDukeFan
12-29-2014, 11:33 AM
Sure, but 173 of the 200 Colonial minutes played in that game were by guys who are no longer on the team. This year's version already has 6 double-digit losses, 3 of which were by 26 or more.


That doesn't make it much less fun to bring it up.

Duke3517
12-29-2014, 11:57 AM
Really want to see more Grayson Allen, Matt Jones, and Marshall Plumlee. Hopefully Duke can rest their starters a little bit tonight.

CDu
12-29-2014, 12:00 PM
Toledo scares the crap out of me. Yes, they are a mid-major and yes they are only 7-4, but they've won five in a row. Two losses were by 2 and 3 points and the other two were only by 9 and 10 AT Oregon and AT VCU. They return everyone except for one starter from last year's 27 win, NIT team. All five starters are averaging double figures. Their senior point guard looks terrific. Two other senior, returning starters on the wings are playing great. Their junior returning center looks to actually have the size to battle in the paint. And it's possible tonight is when Mississippi St transfer Dre Applewhite is finally eligible to play (he was starting as a freshman there last year when he left for Toledo). Toledo is absolutely a team last year that I had high on my list to watch for as a great pick for early round upsetting in the next NCAA tournament.

I could see the argument that Toledo shouldn't be completely overlooked, I am not sure why they would scare the crap out of you. They are 7-4 with two losses to terrible teams.

The only thing that is slightly concerning about this game is that we have had an 1 day layoff.

jv001
12-29-2014, 12:38 PM
I could see the argument that Toledo shouldn't be completely overlooked, I am not sure why they would scare the crap out of you. They are 7-4 with two losses to terrible teams.

The only thing that is slightly concerning about this game is that we have had an 1 day layoff.

I think you meant 11 day layoff and that concerns me as well. The last game played after a long layoff, the team was rusty and played a lackluster game. I hope we have had better practices since the team returned from Christmas holiday. But I really don't know how many practices the team has had. So, it wouldn't surprise me to see some rust on this game as well. GoDuke!

CDu
12-29-2014, 12:46 PM
I think you meant 11 day layoff and that concerns me as well. The last game played after a long layoff, the team was rusty and played a lackluster game. I hope we have had better practices since the team returned from Christmas holiday. But I really don't know how many practices the team has had. So, it wouldn't surprise me to see some rust on this game as well. GoDuke!

Yes, apparently my keyboard is sticky. A day layoff would not concern me. :)

As for the comparisons between Toledo and the bottom of the ACC this year, I think they are valid. But only because I feel that the bottom of the ACC is exceptionally bad this year (meaning more really bad teams than usual - not necessarily the worst bad team). We should have a lot of conference games this year against teams that are very much overmatched. They might still end up challenging games, but not because of the quality of the opponent.

gumbomoop
12-29-2014, 12:47 PM
Toledo appears to be good on O, lousy D. Shoot nearly as many 3s/game as Duke, with higher % than Duke. Excellent team FT %, much better than Duke's. Starting center Boothe might take Jahlil outside for 3-bomb. I'd think Justise and Amile are bigger/stronger than Toledo's opposing defenders, so maybe big games from our guys there. Didn't Jahlil at high post deliver a couple of nice passes down to Amile in UConn game? Might expect to see some of that.

gurufrisbee
12-29-2014, 01:09 PM
I could see the argument that Toledo shouldn't be completely overlooked, I am not sure why they would scare the crap out of you. They are 7-4 with two losses to terrible teams.

The only thing that is slightly concerning about this game is that we have had an 1 day layoff.

They are a very talented, very experienced mid major team that will be impossible to beat by a big enough margin that the national media/duke haters won't call it a disappointment and it's very possible that Toledo will actually push them and make a game of it.

CDu
12-29-2014, 01:49 PM
They are a very talented, very experienced mid major team that will be impossible to beat by a big enough margin that the national media/duke haters won't call it a disappointment and it's very possible that Toledo will actually push them and make a game of it.

They are a very experienced mid-major team that has lost to a 4-10 Oakland team and at home to a 6-7 Detroit team. They have no business beating us. They may wind up making it close (especially given our long layoff), but they just aren't a team that scares the crap out of me. Losing at home to them would be a big disappointment. This is a game we should win by 20 if we play decently, and by double-digits regardless.

I don't care too much about margin of victory. If we win by more than 10 (and we should), the media won't care too much. And if we win close, the media will care only up until the result of our next game. And I don't care at all about the Duke haters' opinion.

riverside6
12-29-2014, 05:38 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Toledo, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/toledo-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-12292014

Tripping William
12-29-2014, 06:01 PM
Aw, snap: We drew Elmore.

weezie
12-29-2014, 06:10 PM
I take it there is no chat this evening?

DukeHLM'13
12-29-2014, 06:12 PM
I take it there is no chat this evening?

I feel like you and I have been in this conundrum before...

Dev11
12-29-2014, 06:16 PM
Not sure if jk set it up, but this is the chat link:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox

If it doesn't work, I'm sorry.

striker219
12-29-2014, 06:17 PM
We are clearly having a hard time shaking off the rust, missing decent shots over and over. Also, these yellow uniforms we're wearing are just awful.

Those guys in white came to play though.

crdaul
12-29-2014, 06:20 PM
Classic Len Elmore.....UVA is the best team in the ACC....this guy will never get over his hating

uh_no
12-29-2014, 06:21 PM
Fwiw Ken ppmpom predicts t the efficiency at 124-94

It's currently 112 to 56

weezie
12-29-2014, 06:21 PM
Good Ole Len just yammers away. He's super easy to ignore though.

duke4ever19
12-29-2014, 06:28 PM
Someone must have let some birds in the stadium. Hearing lots of tweeting, chirping and whistling.

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-29-2014, 06:39 PM
Lot of easy layups for the bad guys. Grrrrr

CDu
12-29-2014, 06:44 PM
Sloppy, sloppy play. Not surprising given the layoff. But still frustrating.

jwillfan
12-29-2014, 06:44 PM
Defense porous. Marshall miised his first FT, now 11-12 for the season. Will be some adjustments at halftime.

weezie
12-29-2014, 06:46 PM
and some veins popping out of K's dome.

slower
12-29-2014, 06:47 PM
K should tell his starters to just show up and they will win.

Looking to earn more of those little orange symbols, are you?

CR9
12-29-2014, 06:49 PM
and some veins popping out of K's dome.

And with good reason. They seem lethargic.

Atldukie79
12-29-2014, 06:53 PM
Duke's fast start probably made us think this would be an easy game.

We are having a familiar problem on D with an opponent who drives to the basket while their big screens our big down low. Open layups in both transition and half court are distressing.

Devilwin
12-29-2014, 06:58 PM
I expect some young fellas are getting their respective butts chewed about now. Jefferson's not even in the game at all. We look ragged, and way, way too many easy shots by Toledo. Second half we must stop all that penetration.

gurufrisbee
12-29-2014, 06:59 PM
Feeling unhappily correct about saying this game scared me a lot.

NashvilleDevil
12-29-2014, 07:00 PM
K should tell his starters to just show up and they will win.

Let Kentucky fans have hubris.

CDu
12-29-2014, 07:04 PM
Feeling unhappily correct about saying this game scared me a lot.

Yeah, the rust and lethargy are quite evident.

wavedukefan70s
12-29-2014, 07:08 PM
Is it just me or did the announcer just yell for Toledo ?

slower
12-29-2014, 07:08 PM
We are having a familiar problem on D with an opponent who drives to the basket while their big screens our big down low. Open layups in both transition and half court are distressing.

It's déjà vu all over again. Getting out-athleted by quick guards. Same old same old.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 07:08 PM
Our defense is halfhearted at best, but in all fairness, defense is tougher to teach than offense, IMO. I'm not going to expect freshmen to be instant defensive wizards. I would expect Rasheed, Amile, and Quin to be quite adept at it by now though.

Edouble
12-29-2014, 07:08 PM
Announcers are certainly impartial

gurufrisbee
12-29-2014, 07:09 PM
Yeah, the rust and lethargy are quite evident.

They are, but there is a lot of talent and experience out there in yellow. That team is no pushover.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 07:11 PM
This Jahlil Duncan guy is something. :)

Edouble
12-29-2014, 07:11 PM
So, Okafor has pretty much locked up my player of the game vote at this point.

Duke95
12-29-2014, 07:13 PM
Do I hear the irritating voice of Len Elmore as announcer, or am I imagining things?

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-29-2014, 07:16 PM
So, Okafor has pretty much locked up my player of the game vote at this point.
My vote to anyone who can hit a free throw.

cspan37421
12-29-2014, 07:16 PM
Is it just me or did the announcer just yell for Toledo ?

Yes, he could not contain his elation. I don't know if he just wants to see Duke get beat or know that his employer will get better ratings with a close game. Either way, it was unprofessional.

CDu
12-29-2014, 07:17 PM
They are, but there is a lot of talent and experience out there in yellow. That team is no pushover.

They are a decent mid major, nothing more. If we weren't rusty, this wouldn't be at all close.

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-29-2014, 07:19 PM
Ugliest 3pt shot sequence ever. But I guess we should take it!

cspan37421
12-29-2014, 07:22 PM
They are a decent mid major, nothing more. If we weren't rusty, this wouldn't be at all close.

Rusty rusty rusty

why aren't they rusty? They've been off 9 days (11 for us, not a huge difference).

Maybe we're just not as good as we think we are (on D). Maybe Toledo is better than we thought. Maybe they had a better game plan, which helped close the talent gap.

I don't buy the rust argument. It should cut both ways.

CDu
12-29-2014, 07:24 PM
It is like we don't feel urgency. Whenever we play with intensity on defense, we shut them down. Then we get complacent again and Toledo hangs around. I have little doubt we will win this game. But ut would be nice to see consistent effort on defense.

jwillfan
12-29-2014, 07:25 PM
Marshall! Yes less urgency than we'd like. Correctable.

CDu
12-29-2014, 07:27 PM
Rusty rusty rusty

why aren't they rusty? They've been off 9 days (11 for us, not a huge difference).

Maybe we're just not as good as we think we are (on D). Maybe Toledo is better than we thought. Maybe they had a better game plan, which helped close the talent gap.

I don't buy the rust argument. It should cut both ways.

The rust is showing in our effort, especially on defense. Toledo has the edge of this being their Super Bowl, whereas this is a tuneup for us.

Maybe rust is the wrong word. Lethargy/complacency may be a better term, though I think the layoff is part of that.

jwillfan
12-29-2014, 07:30 PM
Ugh Len Elmore. Sloppy play.

-jk
12-29-2014, 07:34 PM
Chat is open. Way late - sorry! Caught in I-95 traffic...

-jk

CDu
12-29-2014, 07:36 PM
Finally showing a little interest on defense. And what do youknow? It is back to a comfy margin.

Young team, and the lack of focus is showing.

Devilwin
12-29-2014, 07:49 PM
Is it just me or did the announcer just yell for Toledo ?

Yes. When they hit a three he yelled, "YAY"!

Duke95
12-29-2014, 07:53 PM
Yes. When they hit a three he yelled, "YAY"!

OJ will find the "real killers" before Len Elmore finds a soft spot in his heart for Duke.

weezie
12-29-2014, 07:58 PM
Lol "if Virginia can continue the way they're continuing" sez Len. How does he keep this job?