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duketaylor
12-28-2014, 11:03 AM
http://collegespun.com/sec/florida-sec/report-florida-qb-jeff-driskel-considering-a-transfer-to-duke

Very interesting.

BD80
12-28-2014, 11:40 AM
http://collegespun.com/sec/florida-sec/report-florida-qb-jeff-driskel-considering-a-transfer-to-duke

Very interesting.

Driskel ... As a sophomore, he led the Gators to 11 wins while throwing for 1,646 yards, 12 touchdowns and five interceptions. Coming out of high school, Driskel was a four-star recruit and the No. 1 pro-style quarterback prospect in the country. ...

The redshirt junior has one year of eligibility remaining and because he’s graduating from Florida, he could play immediately next season

Golly, a top-ranked pro-style quarterback coached by Cut. Might work.

Duvall
12-28-2014, 11:52 AM
Driskel ... As a sophomore, he led the Gators to 11 wins while throwing for 1,646 yards, 12 touchdowns and five interceptions. Coming out of high school, Driskel was a four-star recruit and the No. 1 pro-style quarterback prospect in the country. ...

The redshirt junior has one year of eligibility remaining and because he’s graduating from Florida, he could play immediately next season

Golly, a top-ranked pro-style quarterback coached by Cut. Might work.

Except that three years of college ball have shown that Driskel's HS rankings were...optimistic.

Olympic Fan
12-28-2014, 12:01 PM
Duvall's skepticism is warranted -- Driskel had one solid season at Florida as a soph, where it looked like his rankings were justified. But since then, he's had an injury and come back and played erratically. The insistence on sticking with Driskel at QB this season is one of the reasons Muschamp got fired.

I'm not sure. From a distance, it looks like we have a talented guy who got very messed up -- whether mechanically or mentally, I don't know. But it's not unreasonable to think Cut's the guy who can straighten him back and get him back in track.

On the other hand, bringing in a one-year guy is not a great movie for the program. If it happens, I think it tells us a lot about how Cut feels about his returning QBs. If he really likes Sirk or Pierre of Beohme, I can't see doing this. If he's worried that none can do the job, then is may be necessary.

I trust Cut's judgment on this one.

JasonEvans
12-28-2014, 01:44 PM
I trust Cut's judgment on this one everything.

Fixed it for you.

fuse
12-28-2014, 04:36 PM
Mixed feelings on this one- we have a stockpile of (unproven) quarterbacks.

In Cut I trust. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out, and if some QBs currently on the roster become "athletes", or fill holes at other positions.

Heck with the Wildcat, we could put a QB at every WR position and a Madden-esque portfolio of trick plays.
(I kid, but how much fun would that be to watch if it worked?)

Henderson
12-28-2014, 04:47 PM
Mixed feelings on this one- we have a stockpile of (unproven) quarterbacks.

In Cut I trust. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out, and if some QBs currently on the roster become "athletes", or fill holes at other positions.

Heck with the Wildcat, we could put a QB at every WR position and a Madden-esque portfolio of trick plays.
(I kid, but how much fun would that be to watch if it worked?)

My take: More is better than less. He competes for the job, and if he's better than the others, he plays. If not, he sits. No lose situation for Cut. The competition may elevate others. And that's a plus too.

Jim3k
12-28-2014, 04:54 PM
I originally posted this elsewhere, but think it's worth repeating here:
----
The more I think about it, the less I like a Driskel transfer. He would steal PT from at least two guys who are well thought of, Sirk and Boehme, and know the system. Plus, there is redshirt freshman Nicodem Pierre, also well thought of and who might be better than the other two.

Moreover, Cut has Quentin Harris in the truck as the only recruited QB for next fall. Some have rated Harris fairly high (3 ★), but he is from a prep school league in Connecticut not known for high level performers. Cut apparently thinks he's better than 3 ★, so I guess we'll find out. (I know, as a freshman, Harris is unlikely to be a serious QB candidate until he matures. Probable red shirt at best. Still, he's coming from the bottom.) All four looked carefully at the Duke roster as they made their decision. Inserting a transfer senior would shake the applecart at least to some extent. Getting beaten out by a peer would not be a concern for those guys who have already paid the same dues. That is expected. Not so much for a senior transfer.


I don't like such transfers from a team chemistry POV. In fact, our own graduate student transfer, Brandon Connette, didn't fare that well in his new system at Fresno State.
---
And, of course, there is Driskel's performance issue. Who says he would be be better than the guys we have coming up? Not to put too fine a point on it, but isn't Driskel damaged goods? Besides, if he still needs hours at Florida to graduate (and I have no idea), he'd miss spring practice at his transferee school. Not good for the fall.

And just because he says he wants to come doesn't mean that he has had a positive answer from the staff.
https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif

wilko
12-28-2014, 06:46 PM
Lookie lookie...

Braxton Miller is looking at Duke as well....
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-spring-practice-kicks-off-in-Feb-spring-game-up-in-the-air-34184510

Dukehky
12-28-2014, 06:53 PM
Lookie lookie...

Braxton Miller is looking at Duke as well....
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-spring-practice-kicks-off-in-Feb-spring-game-up-in-the-air-34184510

Driskel, ehhhhh

Braxton Miller, totally different story. Come on Jeremy Cash, bring in ya boy!!!

duketaylor
12-28-2014, 08:55 PM
Where is Scott Bracey expected to fit in at Duke? The Benedictine QB/WR who will be an incoming frosh in the fall? Just curious, maybe as a DB??

gam7
12-28-2014, 09:04 PM
Where is Scott Bracey expected to fit in at Duke? The Benedictine QB/WR who will be an incoming frosh in the fall? Just curious, maybe as a DB??

Isn't he high school class of 2016?

Bluegrassdevil1
12-28-2014, 09:05 PM
As many have previously expressed:

BIG FAT NO regarding Driskel.

PROFOUNDLY PLUMP AND ROBUST YES on Miller.

BD80
12-28-2014, 10:01 PM
Lookie lookie...

Braxton Miller is looking at Duke as well....
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-spring-practice-kicks-off-in-Feb-spring-game-up-in-the-air-34184510

As a graduate, Miller is free to transfer anywhere without restriction?

If not Duke, I hope he chooses to play for Jim Harbaugh

Jim3k
12-28-2014, 10:07 PM
As a graduate, Miller is free to transfer anywhere without restriction?

If not Duke, I hope he chooses to play for Jim Harbaugh

The only NCAA restriction is that he must go to a school for a grad course not available at his school--a rule not tightly enforced.

BD80
12-28-2014, 10:38 PM
The only NCAA restriction is that he must go to a school for a grad course not available at his school--a rule not tightly enforced.

UM would create a new graduate program that OSU doesn't offer to get a former Heisman candidate from its arch-rival

SoCalDukeFan
12-28-2014, 10:48 PM
It's very rare for a college team to have too many excellent quarterbacks. A first class quarterback and a season without major injury would be great.

SoCal

Dukehky
12-28-2014, 11:33 PM
Braxton Miller!? Like is this seriously a possibility? No way right? Just lip service, has to be. The more I think about it, the crazier it seems to me, but potentially incredible. He would be the best player in the whole league next year, barring a Jameis return. This guy was a pre-season Heisman favorite, and justifiably so, I think. This would be absurd. Late Christmas present indeed.

BigWayne
12-29-2014, 03:43 AM
As a graduate, Miller is free to transfer anywhere without restriction?

If not Duke, I hope he chooses to play for Jim Harbaugh

I am not 100% positive as the rules are hard to understand, but I think the undergraduate institution has to be a willing participant to the transfer. They have to give a release and/or rescind the scholarship for the graduate transfer exception to be approved. It is important to remember that the rule allowing these transfers is an "exception" to the base rules.

While looking for the rules, I found this link on a study of graduate transfer results (http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/tracking-division-i-graduate-transfers) in terms of getting graduate degrees. Unsurprisingly, the majority of these "graduate students" seem to lose interest in their studies after their eligibility runs out.

OldPhiKap
12-29-2014, 08:43 AM
I wonder ifKurt Roper put the bug in his ear.

I wonder where Kurt will be next year.

OZZIE4DUKE
12-29-2014, 09:40 AM
I wonder ifKurt Roper put the bug in his ear.

I wonder where Kurt will be next year.
While I wish Curt Roper success in finding a new job, like the rabbi's prayer for the Czar in Fiddler on the Roof, may he find his new job "far away from here (Durham)!"

devildeac
12-29-2014, 09:49 AM
Driskel, ehhhhh

Braxton Miller, totally different story. Come on Jeremy Cash, bring in ya boy!!!

Maybe this big dude could help steer Miller to Durham:

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/vince_oghobaase_870387.html

C'mon, Big Vince, whaddaya say?;)

JasonEvans
12-29-2014, 09:51 AM
I wonder if Kurt Roper put the bug in his ear.

I dunno about Driskel, but I bet there are some interesting (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/vince_oghobaase_870387.html) voices (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205497325)whispering in Miller's ear.

-Jason "It may still be a pipe dream, but Miller would be a huge difference-maker and would speak volumens about Duke's profile as a legit national football program" Evans

duke blue brewcrew
12-29-2014, 12:30 PM
Imagine a 2015 Duke Football world that includes Braxton Miller, Johnny Frasier and a returning Jeremy Cash. That would be something to get excited about! Pre-Season Top 25? Top 15?

As for Driskel, I wish him well, but I'm not hoping he comes to Duke. I know the Blue Devils lack experience at the position coming into next season, but I would rather not stunt or other wise delay the growth of Duke's QB depth for Driskel. It's reasonable to think that Driskel could beat out the competition for the starting job, he does have experience. That said, what did we really gain? He's digressed throughout his career at Florida IMO.

johnb
12-29-2014, 01:01 PM
While Miller would be great both for his play and for recruiting, I wouldn't write off Driskel so quickly. Florida has been a mess since he became the starter, and I'd hesitate to pin their mediocre performance solely on him. Who knows how he might do with a change of scenery, coaches, and opponents? For example, he might fare better against, say, Wake Forest, than against the NFL-laden defenses of Alabama, LSU, Auburn, etc. It would be a drag for our incumbent qb's to not get to start, but, so far, none has shown himself ready to perform at a high level--and this despite Boone having a season in which he sometimes seemed like a drag on our offense.

A senior transfer might be just the ticket and increase the likelihood that we'll continue this bowl streak.

Tripping William
12-29-2014, 01:13 PM
I dunno about Driskel, but I bet there are some interesting (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/vince_oghobaase_870387.html) voices (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205497325)whispering in Miller's ear.

-Jason "It may still be a pipe dream, but Miller would be a huge difference-maker and would speak volumens about Duke's profile as a legit national football program" Evans

With all the standard caveats about considering the source, small sample size, and so forth, I have two colleagues who follow Ohio St. closely and who believe (a) it's a better-than-even proposition that Miller will transfer and (b) that Oregon is in the running and would be a better fit.

YYMV.

Where is Mike Corey lurking when we need him? ;)

CDu
12-29-2014, 05:21 PM
Seems weird to think that Miller would leave a starting job on a national title contender to come to Duke. But if he would do so, we should be welcoming him with open arms. But I have trouble believing he'd really be looking to come here.

Driskell? That one seems highly believable (floundering program about to have a new coach, his current OC was our old OC), though it's debatable whether he'd be an actual upgrade.

Bob Green
12-29-2014, 05:28 PM
Seems weird to think that Miller would leave a starting job on a national title contender to come to Duke.

The reason Miller is looking to transfer is he has lost his starting job on a national title contender due to injury. He isn't going to spend his senior season sitting on the bench at Ohio State. He will be looking to transfer to a place where he can start. I hope he decides to come to Duke to be prepared for the NFL by Coach Cutcliffe.

CDu
12-29-2014, 05:56 PM
The reason Miller is looking to transfer is he has lost his starting job on a national title contender due to injury. He isn't going to spend his senior season sitting on the bench at Ohio State. He will be looking to transfer to a place where he can start. I hope he decides to come to Duke to be prepared for the NFL by Coach Cutcliffe.

But has he really lost his job? Yes, Barrett played really well in replacing Miller, but would OSU really bench the former Big Ten Player of the Year and preseason Heisman candidate for his senior year?

Bob Green
12-29-2014, 06:09 PM
But has he really lost his job?

Perhaps I am guilty of circular reasoning, but seeing as he is looking to transfer I assume yes.

Acymetric
12-29-2014, 06:14 PM
Perhaps I am guilty of circular reasoning, but seeing as he is looking to transfer I assume yes.

I don't expect either guy was looking to play behind the other after both showed their talent. Similar kind of decision for the coaches to the NC State situation with Wilson and Glennon (older guy for one year or younger guy for 2 kind of deal).

Dev11
12-29-2014, 06:26 PM
I'd guess that the coaches indicated to him that they're leaning towards Barrett. Urban Meyer is known as a player's coach, perhaps to a fault (the list of offenses from his time at Floridawas pretty staggering), so this might be a case where the coach wants to help the player out. Letting him know sooner than later gives Miller the opportunity to transfer in time for spring practice at his new school, which will be vital as he only has one year in the new system to catch up.

I'm just thinking out loud (on screen?), no insider stuff.

Mike Corey
12-29-2014, 11:40 PM
Where is Mike Corey lurking when we need him? ;)

The source here is Adam Rowe. I trust him.

I've got no good inside info here. We'll know a lot more once OSU's postseason is complete, hopefully not this week.

If nothing else, it's been a good few weeks of publicity for Duke football.

As to the suggestion that Braxton might entertain Michigan's desperate need for someone that can throw the ball forward, well, that's just not a very nice thing to say about Mr. Miller. We want this young man in Durham; no need to insult his decisionmaking.

conmanlhughes
12-30-2014, 11:42 AM
The source here is Adam Rowe. I trust him.

I've got no good inside info here. We'll know a lot more once OSU's postseason is complete, hopefully not this week.

If nothing else, it's been a good few weeks of publicity for Duke football.

As to the suggestion that Braxton might entertain Michigan's desperate need for someone that can throw the ball forward, well, that's just not a very nice thing to say about Mr. Miller. We want this young man in Durham; no need to insult his decision making.

I would love to here more from Adam Rowe in terms of how serious this reaching out to Duke by Miller is. I became very interested when I heard Miller was interested in Duke, so I read all the articles on the web about potential transferring, and every time they mentioned Duke, the source was Adam Rowe.

I'm not saying that I do not believe Adam Rowe, I'm just wishing that he could provide a bit more information that makes him confident enough to come out and say "Braxton Miller has expressed INTEREST in transferring to Duke." This almost seems too surreal to have a Heisman candidate considering Duke. Tells you how far our program as come.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-30-2014, 11:59 AM
I would love to here more from Adam Rowe in terms of how serious this reaching out to Duke by Miller is. I became very interested when I heard Miller was interested in Duke, so I read all the articles on the web about potential transferring, and every time they mentioned Duke, the source was Adam Rowe.

I'm not saying that I do not believe Adam Rowe, I'm just wishing that he could provide a bit more information that makes him confident enough to come out and say "Braxton Miller has expressed INTEREST in transferring to Duke." This almost seems too surreal to have a Heisman candidate considering Duke. Tells you how far our program as come.

Adam Rowe is one of a handful of sources on here that has the gold seal in my book. Not saying that Miller will definitely come here, but if Rowe says there is interest, you can book that there's interest.

BD80
12-30-2014, 12:49 PM
... As to the suggestion that Braxton might entertain Michigan's desperate need for someone that can throw the ball forward, well, that's just not a very nice thing to say about Mr. Miller. We want this young man in Durham; no need to insult his decisionmaking.

Were the roles reversed, you'd have to admit the potential humor of the situation.

It would be as if Quinn had taken a redshirt year, graduates this year, and decides to transfer next year as a graduate because Tyus chooses to stay next year, and selects the tar heels.

The Buckeyes might like their two younger QBs better than Miller, but they certainly wouldn't want to see Braxton wearing that ludicrous blue and corny helmet.

conmanlhughes
12-30-2014, 01:28 PM
Found some highlights from Braxton Miller. Wow.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=trS3nqXv_RQ

Mike Corey
12-30-2014, 01:40 PM
Adam Rowe is one of a handful of sources on here that has the gold seal in my book. Not saying that Miller will definitely come here, but if Rowe says there is interest, you can book that there's interest.

Agreed.

But we must note that surely every program in search of a quarterback will be interested in Miller, so any competition would be fierce.

I'm sure Adam has reasons for reporting as he has, and I'm sure he'll keep us as abreast as he is able as this progresses.

~

Re: Braxton to Michigan, it'd definitely be hilarious. Actually, one semi-prominent player transferred from Michigan to OSU a few years back, so it's not unheard of.

~

Braxton's a top-flight college quarterback, and is a very impressive runner. Many think Barrett's a better distributor of the ball, but I'll leave that to people that know football better than I...which is to say, most everyone.

The knock on Braxton is his physical resilience. He is injured frequently, though none as serious as his current issue.

MulletMan
12-30-2014, 05:26 PM
Agreed.

But we must note that surely every program in search of a quarterback will be interested in Miller, so any competition would be fierce.

I'm sure Adam has reasons for reporting as he has, and I'm sure he'll keep us as abreast as he is able as this progresses.

~

Re: Braxton to Michigan, it'd definitely be hilarious. Actually, one semi-prominent player transferred from Michigan to OSU a few years back, so it's not unheard of.

~

Braxton's a top-flight college quarterback, and is a very impressive runner. Many think Barrett's a better distributor of the ball, but I'll leave that to people that know football better than I...which is to say, most everyone.

The knock on Braxton is his physical resilience. He is injured frequently, though none as serious as his current issue.

Well, I suppose that I am supposed to chime in now. I think it is very likely that Miller is transferring and have thought so since around early November/the Michigan State game. Barrett's ability to throw, work through his progressions and make quick decisions was better, at that point, that Miller's. And Barrett is a red shirt fresh who hadn't played in 18 months due to a knee injury. Miller just isn't as good as Barrett in the passing game. It seems likely to me, that the OSU coaching staff, and specifically Meyer has been honest with Miller and told him that the job isn't automatically his next year. Plus, can you imagine if Jones plays remotely well in the playoff? Then you've got a three way battle going into the spring, and one guy who is staring down the barell of his last season. A transfer is probably in the works.

I think Adam's posting is probably true...Miller probably has reached out to or expressed interest in duke, but more specifically in Cutty, as he wants to play QB in the NFL. However, much like his predecessor, Pryor, the knock has been his throwing ability. Wouldn't it make sense to work under Cutty for spring ball and the following season to try to upgrade the draft stock? Miller could end up looking like a Teddy Bridgewater or a more mature Johnny Manziel. That wouldn't be so bad. Also, Miller probably figures that he could still go the Dennard Robinson route and end up as a back in the NFL given his absurd running ability and elusiveness. I was at the OSU-Penn State game a few years ago and saw this in person (go to about the 2:09 mark) (http://http://youtu.be/q3dMoIN_tYM) And I still am not sure it actually happened. So I think Miller to Duke could make sense.

That said, I think Duke is probably a long shot. Miller isn't going to Michigan. He isn't going to do Meyer like that and he isn't Justin Boren who was pissed when Carr was forced out at Michigan, had been an OSU recruit and whose brother, Zach, was committed to OSU. What makes more sense to me is either Oregon for a year, or Texas. Texas is in a heap of trouble at QB and would probably guarantee Miller the starting job. Oregon would just plug him in and run their offense without missing a beat. So, what does Duke do? Add some read option and teach the kid to throw? Maybe. I sure hope so, but until Cutty is telling me that it is happening, I will still think it's a long shot.

And in all fairness, I love Braxton Miller. That kid was thrown into a poop storm after Tresell/Pryor/tattoo-gate and did nothing but put his behind on the line for OSU. He has been injured several times, but most have been related to big time hits that go along with running the read option in a fast paced college system, and, for better or worse, the kid doesn't shy away from contact.

So there's my two cents...for what it's worth. I hope to hell that he does end up at Duke next year. I think his dynamic nature and leadership abilities would make Duke a favorite in the Coastal and give us a chance to win the ACC.

CDu
12-30-2014, 08:59 PM
Perhaps I am guilty of circular reasoning, but seeing as he is looking to transfer I assume yes.

Your reasoning may be circular, but if he is really looking to transfer (as seems to be) then it is probably correct reasoning.

Also, thanks to the Mullet for his thoughts.

If healthy, I would love to have a talent like Miller, even for just a year. Though I too would think it a long shot. But Cutcliffe does have serious NFL QB cache, so who knows?

OldPhiKap
12-30-2014, 09:11 PM
Your reasoning may be circular, but if he is really looking to transfer (as seems to be) then it is probably correct reasoning.

Also, thanks to the Mullet for his thoughts.

If healthy, I would love to have a talent like Miller, even for just a year. Though I too would think it a long shot. But Cutcliffe does have serious NFL QB cache, so who knows?

We've come a long way of hoping to beat out Richmond for recruits!

CDu
12-30-2014, 09:31 PM
We've come a long way of hoping to beat out Richmond for recruits!

A-freaking-men!

ricks68
12-31-2014, 01:00 AM
The reason Miller is looking to transfer is he has lost his starting job on a national title contender due to injury. He isn't going to spend his senior season sitting on the bench at Ohio State. He will be looking to transfer to a place where he can start. I hope he decides to come to Duke to be prepared for the NFL by Coach Cutcliffe.

When I first heard about this, I immediately had this same thought. Coach Cut not only knows how to successfully train QB's, but that fact has certainly been getting out to both college and NFL people for a number of years now due to all the Manning off season sessions. In addition, he ain't been too shabby with much lower rated high school quarterbacks that have been coming to Duke. Go Coach Cut and go Duke!

ricks

HK Dukie
12-31-2014, 02:22 AM
Braxton Miller to Duke would be an epic coup for Coach Cut and Duke. Biggest story of the offseason. Our offense would be scary good. With our 6th years coming back and the potential of Cash to return (with his OSU friend Miller coming) could set Duke up to be in the discussion all year for the CFP.

Miller is the best read option QB I have seen in the past decade in college FB. But he won't do well in the NFL with his throwing arm delivery. Look at the replays. His arm is at a 40-50% most the time (3/4 throw). This improves his touch but reduces arm strength and makes it easier for NFL defenses to bat down passes. If Braxton wants to make the NFL he MUST improve his delivery. He is an NFL athlete. Coach Cut working with him for a year and getting him all the connections he needs would do wonders for the kid.

He has a chance to make the NFL. Hopefully he will figure out that Coach Cut can and will get him there. Perfect fit. Make this happen.

wgl1228
12-31-2014, 09:54 AM
CBS Sports reporting this morning he is now looking into FSU and that they are interested. I would think the Seminoles already have someone waiting in the wings to play QB given all of the Winston mess.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24925243/report-ohio-state-qb-braxton-miller-shows-interest-in-florida-state-transfer

CDu
12-31-2014, 10:30 AM
CBS Sports reporting this morning he is now looking into FSU and that they are interested. I would think the Seminoles already have someone waiting in the wings to play QB given all of the Winston mess.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24925243/report-ohio-state-qb-braxton-miller-shows-interest-in-florida-state-transfer

They actually don't - at least not one of Miller's caliber. They will have redshirt junior Sean Maguire (a solid but not great prospect), JJ Consentino (a sophomore similar in prospect status to Maguire), and Deondre Francois (a 5-star recruit but would be a true freshman). I wouldn't be at all surprised if FSU took Miller as a stopgap for one year, then rolled with the senior Maguire for a year before handing the reins to a then redshirt soph Francois (or handed the reins directly to a then redshirt frosh Francois after Miller).

Bob Green
12-31-2014, 11:45 AM
No reason to start a new thread, even though the latest news is about a transfer TE, not a QB. It appears Daniel Helm, 6'4" 240, will be transferring from Tennessee to Duke. He will have to sit out 2015. Helm was the #8 TE in the 2014 Class per ESPN:


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/167520/daniel-helm

Mike Corey
12-31-2014, 11:48 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Kjodc3l6vlo/ULJHlAFriSI/AAAAAAAADdU/ioZyAKV-LFI/s1600/nasa-celebration.gif

OldPhiKap
12-31-2014, 11:51 AM
No reason to start a new thread, even though the latest news is about a transfer TE, not a QB. It appears Daniel Helm, 6'4" 240, will be transferring from Tennessee to Duke. He will have to sit out 2015. Helm was the #8 TE in the 2014 Class per ESPN:


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/167520/daniel-helm

Wow, impressive list of offers too.

Cut is making Durham a football destination. Good things build on good things.

CDu
12-31-2014, 11:57 AM
For whatever it is worth, Urban Meyer does not expect Miller to transfer:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12102592/urban-meyer-expects-braxton-miller-back-ohio-state-buckeyes-2015

Nugget
12-31-2014, 01:09 PM
Wow, impressive list of offers too.

Cut is making Durham a football destination. Good things build on good things.

Looks like a pretty good move to counteract Tyler Pettite flipping to USC. Well done.

roywhite
12-31-2014, 06:00 PM
TE Helm To Join Duke Football Program (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209829302)

From Goduke.com


Duke head football coach David Cutcliffe announced on Wednesday that Daniel Helm has signed a financial aid agreement with the institution to enroll for the spring, 2015 semester. Helm spent the past two semesters as a member of the football program at the University of Tennessee.

Helm, a 6-4, 240-pound tight end who played in all 12 regular season games with two starting assignments as a true freshman for the Volunteers in 2014, will sit out the 2015 campaign in compliance with NCAA transfer regulations and have three seasons of eligibility beginning in the fall of 2016.....

A native of Chatham, Ill., Helm was charted as a four-star tight end prospect by 247Sports, ESPN, Rivals.com and Scout.com at Glenwood High School while playing for Dan Rourke. Over his final two seasons at Glenwood, he totaled 79 receptions for 1,386 yards and 30 touchdowns and finished his prep career with a school record 35 receiving touchdowns.

devildeac
12-31-2014, 06:12 PM
TE Helm To Join Duke Football Program (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209829302)

From Goduke.com

I don't follow FB recruiting rankings much at all but found this one just for grins:

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-3263

That's pretty impressive.

Bob Green
12-31-2014, 06:54 PM
Another Tennessee transfer to keep an eye on is running back Derrell Scott:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/141829/derrell-scott

Some chatter suggests ECU might have the inside track.

53n206
12-31-2014, 10:08 PM
Does Helm count against this year class of recruits?

uh_no
12-31-2014, 10:44 PM
Does Helm count against this year class of recruits?

huh?

he's on financial aid, and therefore not consuming a scholarship. He doesn't count against anything. Further, scholarships are on a year to year basis, we have 85 (is that the number?) and they can go to new recruits, transfers, returning players, a random student Cut ran into on the Al Beuhler trail. The NCAA doesn't care how many new recruits there are in any given year.

El_Diablo
01-01-2015, 01:43 AM
huh?

he's on financial aid, and therefore not consuming a scholarship. He doesn't count against anything. Further, scholarships are on a year to year basis, we have 85 (is that the number?) and they can go to new recruits, transfers, returning players, a random student Cut ran into on the Al Beuhler trail. The NCAA doesn't care how many new recruits there are in any given year.

I don't understand the part about not consuming a scholarship. The release said he signed a financial aid agreement, which I take to mean he signed the paperwork for the athletic scholarship.

And the NCAA does care how many new recruits there are in a given year--there is a limit of 25 new scholarship players per year. But going back to the original question, I am not sure if a transfer would actually count against that limit.

Olympic Fan
01-01-2015, 12:07 PM
I'm certain that Helm is on scholarship and definitely counts against our limit of 85 (even while he's sitting out next season). I'm not sure if he counts against the 25-scholarship limit for this year, but that's not a problem anyway -- we're not going to end up signing anywhere near 25 guys in this class.

PS I know this thread is about Duke transfers and transfer rumors, but did anybody else notice the Bo Hines transfer at NC State? Hines was the Pack's leading receiver this past season as a true freshman ... he just announced that he's transferring -- to Yale!

wilko
01-01-2015, 12:27 PM
PS I know this thread is about Duke transfers and transfer rumors, but did anybody else notice the Bo Hines transfer at NC State? Hines was the Pack's leading receiver this past season as a true freshman ... he just announced that he's transferring -- to Yale!

I saw that... he wants to pursue a VERY specific academic path. Wants it more than Football.
All you can say to that is "Good Luck Bo" seriously good for him.

devildeac
01-01-2015, 01:56 PM
I'm certain that Helm is on scholarship and definitely counts against our limit of 85 (even while he's sitting out next season). I'm not sure if he counts against the 25-scholarship limit for this year, but that's not a problem anyway -- we're not going to end up signing anywhere near 25 guys in this class.

PS I know this thread is about Duke transfers and transfer rumors, but did anybody else notice the Bo Hines transfer at NC State? Hines was the Pack's leading receiver this past season as a true freshman ... he just announced that he's transferring -- to Yale!

But, if he had really wanted academics/college, he'd have gone to Harvard;):rolleyes:.

mr. synellinden
01-01-2015, 04:39 PM
Interesting NY Times piece (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/sports/ncaafootball/for-ohio-state-an-abundance-of-riches-and-intrigue-at-quarterback-.html?ref=sports&_r=0)on the Ohio St. QB situation with some background information on all three.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/sports/ncaafootball/for-ohio-state-an-abundance-of-riches-and-intrigue-at-quarterback-.html?ref=sports&_r=0

dbcooper
01-01-2015, 04:42 PM
But, if he had really wanted academics/college, he'd have gone to Harvard;):rolleyes:.


Devildeac... you are Butchering this thread., HeHe!

DB

Duvall
01-01-2015, 11:12 PM
If J.T. Barrett is looking for a new school I think Duke could find room for him as well.

-bdbd
01-02-2015, 01:53 PM
Another Tennessee transfer to keep an eye on is running back Derrell Scott:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/141829/derrell-scott

Some chatter suggests ECU might have the inside track.

Over on the Scout board there was some theorizing that the ECU chatter may likely have been simply from EZU fans postulating based on the proximity of his hometown, Havelock, to the school... I wonder if our newest TE signee might be putting in a few good words on our behalf with Mr. Scott. :confused:

-bdbd
01-02-2015, 02:00 PM
If J.T. Barrett is looking for a new school I think Duke could find room for him as well.

Urban Meyer came out in a press conference before the Sugar Bowl game stating that he still "expected" that Barrett to be coming back to OSU. Also, Barrett's dad seems to think he's returning there as well.

Based on this article, and his messy situation with his OSU girlfriend, I'm not sure that Barrett is ideal Duke material...
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/ohio-state-qb-t-barrett-ex-girlfriend-allege-abuse-article-1.2040804
But who ever knows??!

I do know that the QB kid at Florida, who IS transferring, has invited Duke to make contact with him, and that we have a pretty solid connection to his Offensive Coordinator... And, BTW, he's immediately eligible as a graduate transfer (but only has one year left).

CDu
01-02-2015, 02:15 PM
Urban Meyer came out in a press conference before the Sugar Bowl game stating that he still "expected" that Barrett to be coming back to OSU. Also, Barrett's dad seems to think he's returning there as well.

Based on this article, and his messy situation with his OSU girlfriend, I'm not sure that Barrett is ideal Duke material...
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/ohio-state-qb-t-barrett-ex-girlfriend-allege-abuse-article-1.2040804
But who ever knows??!

I do know that the QB kid at Florida, who IS transferring, has invited Duke to make contact with him, and that we have a pretty solid connection to his Offensive Coordinator... And, BTW, he's immediately eligible as a graduate transfer (but only has one year left).

I think Duvall's post was meant as tongue-in-cheek with regard to Barrett, playing off the suddenly very productive fill-in Jones.

Papa John
01-02-2015, 02:29 PM
For whatever it is worth, Urban Meyer does not expect Miller to transfer:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls14/story/_/id/12102592/urban-meyer-expects-braxton-miller-back-ohio-state-buckeyes-2015

I'm sure Urban doesn't expect anyone to transfer, but if Miller isn't the expected starter then he may very well do so in the interest of maximizing his draft potential... There is potentially a similar situation emerging at Notre Dame, where redshirt Malik Zaire started the bowl game and had an outstanding game, leaving doubt as to whether he or the incumbent starter Everett Golson should be named first string this spring...

Jim3k
01-02-2015, 02:36 PM
If a move is going to be made by any of the graduate player-transfers, they better move fast. School's a-startin' and they need to get wherever they're going in time for spring practice.

Regular transfers can take their time, since they are sitting out anyway.

wilko
01-02-2015, 07:19 PM
I am spoiled and want instant info.
Yes or no, but either way don't keep me waiting.....

Anyone who knows anything sure isnt talking....

So that makes me think that the longer this is an open switch, the more viable and more legs it actually has...

FerryFor50
01-02-2015, 07:21 PM
I am spoiled and want instant info.
Yes or no, but either way don't keep me waiting.....

Anyone who knows anything sure isnt talking....

So that makes me think that the longer this is an open switch, the more viable and more legs it actually has...

Or maybe Ohio State is still in the hunt for a national championship and it would be a bit selfish to provide a distraction like transferring right now.

Devilwin
01-02-2015, 07:28 PM
Well, I suppose that I am supposed to chime in now. I think it is very likely that Miller is transferring and have thought so since around early November/the Michigan State game. Barrett's ability to throw, work through his progressions and make quick decisions was better, at that point, that Miller's. And Barrett is a red shirt fresh who hadn't played in 18 months due to a knee injury. Miller just isn't as good as Barrett in the passing game. It seems likely to me, that the OSU coaching staff, and specifically Meyer has been honest with Miller and told him that the job isn't automatically his next year. Plus, can you imagine if Jones plays remotely well in the playoff? Then you've got a three way battle going into the spring, and one guy who is staring down the barell of his last season. A transfer is probably in the works.

I think Adam's posting is probably true...Miller probably has reached out to or expressed interest in duke, but more specifically in Cutty, as he wants to play QB in the NFL. However, much like his predecessor, Pryor, the knock has been his throwing ability. Wouldn't it make sense to work under Cutty for spring ball and the following season to try to upgrade the draft stock? Miller could end up looking like a Teddy Bridgewater or a more mature Johnny Manziel. That wouldn't be so bad. Also, Miller probably figures that he could still go the Dennard Robinson route and end up as a back in the NFL given his absurd running ability and elusiveness. I was at the OSU-Penn State game a few years ago and saw this in person (go to about the 2:09 mark) (http://http://youtu.be/q3dMoIN_tYM) And I still am not sure it actually happened. So I think Miller to Duke could make sense.

That said, I think Duke is probably a long shot. Miller isn't going to Michigan. He isn't going to do Meyer like that and he isn't Justin Boren who was pissed when Carr was forced out at Michigan, had been an OSU recruit and whose brother, Zach, was committed to OSU. What makes more sense to me is either Oregon for a year, or Texas. Texas is in a heap of trouble at QB and would probably guarantee Miller the starting job. Oregon would just plug him in and run their offense without missing a beat. So, what does Duke do? Add some read option and teach the kid to throw? Maybe. I sure hope so, but until Cutty is telling me that it is happening, I will still think it's a long shot.

And in all fairness, I love Braxton Miller. That kid was thrown into a poop storm after Tresell/Pryor/tattoo-gate and did nothing but put his behind on the line for OSU. He has been injured several times, but most have been related to big time hits that go along with running the read option in a fast paced college system, and, for better or worse, the kid doesn't shy away from contact.

So there's my two cents...for what it's worth. I hope to hell that he does end up at Duke next year. I think his dynamic nature and leadership abilities would make Duke a favorite in the Coastal and give us a chance to win the ACC.
I agree 100%. He may want Cut to get him ready for the NFL, and no one does it better than Cut.

wilko
01-02-2015, 07:36 PM
Or maybe Ohio State is still in the hunt for a national championship and it would be a bit selfish to provide a distraction like transferring right now.

If he were an active player..... sure, you'd be 100% correct...
But given that he is currently a non-factor to the outcome of the playoff games, I'm not sure it matters.

If he had categorically denied all transfer rumors that would be 1 thing...
but that they have not been quashed as of yet.... leads me to believe something might be cooking

yancem
01-02-2015, 10:22 PM
If he were an active player..... sure, you'd be 100% correct...
But given that he is currently a non-factor to the outcome of the playoff games, I'm not sure it matters.

If he had categorically denied all transfer rumors that would be 1 thing...
but that they have not been quashed as of yet.... leads me to believe something might be cooking

Yeah but if he transfers before the game, would get a ring?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2015, 07:53 AM
I am spoiled and want instant info.
Yes or no, but either way don't keep me waiting.....

Anyone who knows anything sure isnt talking....

So that makes me think that the longer this is an open switch, the more viable and more legs it actually has...

Something tells me that your specific desire for instant information is not playing into his decision process.

I see no particular advantage to him making his intentions public before the end of the season, and I could see it as a potential distraction. Why would he make a public personal statement now?

Also, just to make you more nervous, there was a lot of speculation on Twitter yesterday from People Who Know Things that he has some mutual interest in Oregon.

Don't hold your breath for a pro-Duke decision in the next 24 hours or week. Be pleasantly surprised if one comes along.

wilko
01-03-2015, 11:19 AM
Something tells me that your specific desire for instant information is not playing into his decision process.
What, hes not doing it just for me? what an outrage (thats sarcasm). OF course his decision is completely independent of what anyone reading this wants (or doesn't want for that matter)... So why cant I feel the way I want to about it?


I see no particular advantage to him making his intentions public before the end of the season, and I could see it as a potential distraction. Why would he make a public personal statement now?

I have no idea what Millers motivations may be. I don't pretend to know him. I DO know Daniel Helm announced his intent before UT's bowl game and it didn't seem to impact UT one iota. So there is a precedent with no seeming ripples.


Also, just to make you more nervous, there was a lot of speculation on Twitter yesterday from People Who Know Things that he has some mutual interest in Oregon.

People on twitter do say the darnedest things. Oregon, FSU and prolly a load of other teams fans injecting themselves into the rumor mill, just because.... none of it makes me "nervous" particularly.

If I'm being completely honest, I don't care about those other teams. If he chooses any team but Duke, it doesn't really change anything for us here in the ACC does it? FSU/Oregon was good yesterday and they'll be good tomorrow... Ho hum..



Don't hold your breath for a pro-Duke decision in the next 24 hours or week. Be pleasantly surprised if one comes along.

Not holding my breath at all....
I'm delighted we are even IN the conversation. Having a dude like Miller even consider Duke is a pretty powerful statement. If Miller ultimately goes elsewhere or stays.... It may change the CFB pecking order a tiny bit and get us consideration from a future elite prospect. The longer we are IN the conversation the better it is for Duke, I think.

But none of this changes the fact that I wish we knew where things stood more clearly if not definitively.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-03-2015, 11:43 AM
People on twitter do say the darnedest things. Oregon, FSU and prolly a load of other teams fans injecting themselves into the rumor mill, just because.... none of it makes me "nervous" particularly.

If I'm being completely honest, I don't care about those other teams. If he chooses any team but Duke, it doesn't really change anything for us here in the ACC does it? FSU/Oregon was good yesterday and they'll be good tomorrow... Ho hum..



Well, that's sort of my point. There's lots of things being said, so let's not get carried away with the fact that we are in the mix, so to speak. At this point, I'm sure almost every FBS program outside of OSU would be happy for him to take a look.




People on twitter do say the darnedest things. Oregon, FSU and prolly a load of other teams fans injecting themselves into the rumor mill, just because.... none of it
Not holding my breath at all....
I'm delighted we are even IN the conversation. Having a dude like Miller even consider Duke is a pretty powerful statement. If Miller ultimately goes elsewhere or stays.... It may change the CFB pecking order a tiny bit and get us consideration from a future elite prospect. The longer we are IN the conversation the better it is for Duke, I think.

But none of this changes the fact that I wish we knew where things stood more clearly if not definitively.

Yes, to me, this is the real takeaway regarless of where Miller ends up. Duke wouldn't have been on the short list for any transfer of this caliber at any point in the last... 30 years? More? It's testament to how far we have come.

I don't mean to jump down the throat of folks who are eager for a decision - I would love to know what the future holds too. I suppose I'm just thinking about it from a viewpoint of "If he does decide to go to Duke, or were an existing Duke player, I would want for him to take the time he needs and make his decision on his timetable."

Now, if he announces this afternoon for Duke, I am all for it. If, on the other hand, he's spending all his time trying to help OSU win the first ever legit national championship, I'm fine with that too.

Dev11
01-03-2015, 02:09 PM
Florida announced that they granted a release for Driskel, and he's still playing in their bowl game today. Granted, their game is going to get way less attention than Ohio State's game, but still.

DU82
01-03-2015, 02:28 PM
Florida announced that they granted a release for Driskel, and he's still playing in their bowl game today. Granted, their game is going to get way less attention than Ohio State's game, but still.

Looks like Louisiana Tech...

https://mobile.twitter.com/BobRedman_Scout/status/551433509643227137?s=15

75Crazie
01-03-2015, 05:59 PM
Am I the only one that worries about the impact that a Miller transfer to Duke would have not only on our stable of returning quarterbacks but also on possible future recruiting of quarterback prospects? I am concerned that it would set a bad precedent and would be a bad message to send to any or all three of our current quarterbacks. I for one am excited to see how the competition between Sirk, Boehme, and Pierre resolves itself for next year. Color me as one who is hoping against any quarterback transfer to Duke this year.

CameronBornAndBred
01-03-2015, 09:47 PM
Am I the only one that worries about the impact that a Miller transfer to Duke would have not only on our stable of returning quarterbacks but also on possible future recruiting of quarterback prospects? I am concerned that it would set a bad precedent and would be a bad message to send to any or all three of our current quarterbacks. I for one am excited to see how the competition between Sirk, Boehme, and Pierre resolves itself for next year. Color me as one who is hoping against any quarterback transfer to Duke this year.
Nope. I'm with you. Not so much for recruiting, but for the guys we already have. Guys that we as fans have been PUMPED on. I don't like the idea of bringing in a band-aid when I had/have faith that at least one of the guys that I've been excited about already can get it done. I'll cheer on whoever's on the field, but I'll be wishing he's been here for longer than a few short months.

Olympic Fan
01-03-2015, 10:15 PM
You can take this for what it's worth, but I had a long talk with a football staffer at today's game.

His take was that Cut never had the slightest interest in Driskel. His point was that Cut is happy with his QB rotation going into next year. He's confident that some combination of Sirk, Boehme and/or Pierre will no nicely and he's NOT looking to bring a transfer QB in.

Jim3k
01-04-2015, 12:28 AM
You can take this for what it's worth, but I had a long talk with a football staffer at today's game.

His take was that Cut never had the slightest interest in Driskel. His point was that Cut is happy with his QB rotation going into next year. He's confident that some combination of Sirk, Boehme and/or Pierre will no nicely and he's NOT looking to bring a transfer QB in.

Good news! A least if your contact is right.

duke blue brewcrew
01-04-2015, 11:53 AM
Am I the only one that worries about the impact that a Miller transfer to Duke would have not only on our stable of returning quarterbacks but also on possible future recruiting of quarterback prospects? I am concerned that it would set a bad precedent and would be a bad message to send to any or all three of our current quarterbacks. I for one am excited to see how the competition between Sirk, Boehme, and Pierre resolves itself for next year. Color me as one who is hoping against any quarterback transfer to Duke this year.

For the most part, I understand and agree with what you're saying. I don't think it would have a negative impact on future recruiting, in fact I think it would be the exact opposite. Young up and coming recruits who see a stud like Braxton Miller transfer to Duke to learn under Coach Cut are bound to be influenced on some level by that. However, the current recruits already a member of the progrom would be heavily impacted by this, I would agree. Based on everything I've read up to this point, excluding a transfer, the race should come down to Sirk and Boehme with Pierre still developing and pollishing his game. I would never be in favor of someone like Driskel coming in to steal time away from the development of our in-house talent. However, it stings less when you add the name Braxton Miller into the equation IMHO.

uh_no
01-04-2015, 12:03 PM
For the most part, I understand and agree with what you're saying. I don't think it would have a negative impact on future recruiting, in fact I think it would be the exact opposite. Young up and coming recruits who see a stud like Braxton Miller transfer to Duke to learn under Coach Cut are bound to be influenced on some level by that. However, the current recruits already a member of the progrom would be heavily impacted by this, I would agree. Based on everything I've read up to this point, excluding a transfer, the race should come down to Sirk and Boehme with Pierre still developing and pollishing his game. I would never be in favor of someone like Driskel coming in to steal time away from the development of our in-house talent. However, it stings less when you add the name Braxton Miller into the equation IMHO.

Further, it could aid in recruiting NON-QB positions, who might look and see a program that is doing everything it possibly can to give the team the best shot to win, which might include accepting that a transfer gives that best shot. You don't think the WR or TE guys would love a heisman candidate throwing to them?

duke blue brewcrew
01-04-2015, 02:39 PM
Further, it could aid in recruiting NON-QB positions, who might look and see a program that is doing everything it possibly can to give the team the best shot to win, which might include accepting that a transfer gives that best shot. You don't think the WR or TE guys would love a heisman candidate throwing to them?

I'm sorry, I thought I was inclusive of these positions when I said -


Young up and coming recruits who see a stud like Braxton Miller transfer to Duke to learn under Coach Cut are bound to be influenced on some level by that.

I agree with including those positions in the conversation, but disagree with stopping there. IF Braxton Miller came to Duke, you have to believe that helps the Blue Devils with their National Recruiting efforts for physically elite and academically gifted football players for both sides of the ball. See incoming recruit Ben Humphreys and Jeremy Cash (transfer) before him as examples of positive traction in that arena. Now, if we can open the flood gates on this type of talent consistently coming to Duke...my oh my what a beautiful thing that would be!

53n206
01-04-2015, 03:46 PM
As regards recruiting quarterbacks, I think it would be detrimental to recruit about current players. With the exception of injured players. In other words, if there is a glaring opening do the best you can. Hopefully the best will come from thoes already on your roster

Class of '94
01-04-2015, 10:10 PM
You can take this for what it's worth, but I had a long talk with a football staffer at today's game.

His take was that Cut never had the slightest interest in Driskel. His point was that Cut is happy with his QB rotation going into next year. He's confident that some combination of Sirk, Boehme and/or Pierre will no nicely and he's NOT looking to bring a transfer QB in.

I like what Cut is doing with the QB situation. As in other situations, he's showing loyalty to the people he came into the program and have waited their turn to play. I know we may be worried about the QB situation; but if Cut feels good about his stable of QBS, I'd prefer for him to stick with the players that have been developing and waiting their turn as opposed to letting a player from the outside come in and jump over them into the starting position. I believe the Jeremy Cash situation was different because we needed help at that position. And while having Braxton Miller on the team (if he were to choose Duke and we accepted him) boost our national perception, I'd still be more concerned that taking Braxton would send the wrong message to the players that are already here at Duke. This may be short-sided on my part; but I think right now it's more important to worry about the players that have committed to and play for Duke than doing certain things to attract future recruits. If Cut and staff takes care of and develop the players we do have, Duke will continue to win and the winning will continue to bring an upgrade in talent and national perception imo.

DangerDevil
01-04-2015, 10:46 PM
Take Driskel off the list.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/04/report-fomer-florida-qb-jeff-driskel-is-louisiana-tech-bound/

jv001
01-05-2015, 07:51 AM
Take Driskel off the list.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/04/report-fomer-florida-qb-jeff-driskel-is-louisiana-tech-bound/

Not wishing Driskel any bad will, but I hope to be saying, glad we didn't get Driskel, because _________ is playing great at QB. Just insert the name of the player you think will win the QB job in 2015. GoDuke!

duke blue brewcrew
01-05-2015, 10:36 AM
Not wishing Driskel any bad will, but I hope to be saying, glad we didn't get Driskel, because _________ is playing great at QB. Just insert the name of the player you think will win the QB job in 2015. GoDuke!

Sirk

jv001
01-05-2015, 10:40 AM
Sirk

Your pick of Sirk could be correct, but I'm going with Pierre. Mainly because I think I read on another post, where Jim Sumner has him in high regard and Mr. Sumner knows more about Duke than I'll ever know. GoDuke!

Dev11
01-05-2015, 11:08 AM
This is probably Cutcliffe's first spring where he can say he doesn't know yet who the starting quarterback will be in the fall. Let the debate rage.

FerryFor50
01-05-2015, 11:11 AM
This is probably Cutcliffe's first spring where he can say he doesn't know yet who the starting quarterback will be in the fall. Let the debate rage.

What I want to know is, why isn't Grayson Allen getting time at QB? :p

OldPhiKap
01-05-2015, 11:16 AM
What I want to know is, why isn't Grayson Allen getting time at QB? :p

How many cinder blocks tall is he?

FerryFor50
01-05-2015, 11:18 AM
How many cinder blocks tall is he?

I think he's 3 apples high...

4619

BTW, wouldn't it be terrifying to see a little blue man that's 3 apples high???

Henderson
01-05-2015, 11:39 AM
I think he's 3 apples high...

4619


Whoa, those would be 25 inch apples for Grayson. I like big apples as much as the next guy, but there are limits.

jimsumner
01-05-2015, 12:01 PM
Your pick of Sirk could be correct, but I'm going with Pierre. Mainly because I think I read on another post, where Jim Sumner has him in high regard and Mr. Sumner knows more about Duke than I'll ever know. GoDuke!

I think Sirk should be a competent ACC quarterback. Maybe Boehme.

But from what I've heard, Pierre is the only QB on the roster with a chance to be great. And I am mindful of the adage that the most popular guy on campus is the quarterback no one has ever seen.

But will Pierre be ready next season? He had a rough senior season in high school. I don't know the specifics but his head coach was fired during the season and the team kind of fell apart. There are reports of coaches showing up after the start of games.

Pierre was a four-star recruit before all that went down.

So, I'm not sure he got much coaching that year. And he was redshirted last year. And redshirt QBs don't get many reps in practice. Time is a resource and it's just not a rational allocation of resources.

Then again, Johnny Football and Jameis Winston won Heismans as redshirt freshmen. I'm not remotely suggesting that Pierre is ever going to be at that level. Or look at what true freshman Brad Kayaa did at Miami this season.

So, talent can trump inexperience. My best guess is that Sirk will go into spring as the nominal number one QB but that competition will be wide-open and likely will continue into the fall, perhaps into the season.

Sirk may be the safe option but Pierre likely has the higher ceiling. My big hope is that someone wins the job as opposed to someone getting the nod by default.

jv001
01-05-2015, 01:00 PM
I knew it! We can always count on Mr. Sumner coming through with good informed information concerning our Blue Devils. Thanks Jim, and I also hope one of our 3 QBs steps up and really out distances himself from the group this Spring. It's going to be very interesting, as Max Well Smart would say. GoDuke!

duke blue brewcrew
01-05-2015, 10:08 PM
Your pick of Sirk could be correct, but I'm going with Pierre. Mainly because I think I read on another post, where Jim Sumner has him in high regard and Mr. Sumner knows more about Duke than I'll ever know. GoDuke!

I hold Mr. Sumner in very high regard, and just saw his very insightful comments on the situation at QB. For me, Jim reinforces some information I recently read in an article by Chris Bunn of The Blue Devil Lair and posted the link earlier in the 2015 recruiting thread, http://duke.247sports.com/Article/State-of-the-Blue-Part-2-34285953. To sum it up, it said that Pierre was incredibly talented, but like a block of marble that still needed to be carved into a master piece. In short, he came in pretty raw and still needs to pollish his game. IF that's the case, then the obvious rotation in my mind is Sirk and then Boehme.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-06-2015, 04:01 AM
I hold Mr. Sumner in very high regard, and just saw his very insightful comments on the situation at QB. For me, Jim reinforces some information I recently read in an article by Chris Bunn of The Blue Devil Lair and posted the link earlier in the 2015 recruiting thread, http://duke.247sports.com/Article/State-of-the-Blue-Part-2-34285953. To sum it up, it said that Pierre was incredibly talented, but like a block of marble that still needed to be carved into a master piece. In short, he came in pretty raw and still needs to pollish his game. IF that's the case, then the obvious rotation in my mind is Sirk and then Boehme.
I recall that when Thomas Sirk came in, Coach Cutcliffe remarked that he is very talented (maybe the highest potential of any he's coached up to that point), but very raw. Thomas played a variety of positions before becoming a QB... which could be an asset in his continued development.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-06-2015, 11:57 AM
I think he's 3 apples high...

4619

BTW, wouldn't it be terrifying to see a little blue man that's 3 apples high???

Depends what shade of blue he was.

wolfpackdevil
01-07-2015, 12:10 PM
After reading every post on this thread, I have not seen anyone that thinks about this situation the same way as I do. I understand that this program is still in the building process, but the 2015 team that will take the field at Wallace-Wade has the talent and experience to win the Coastal division and play for an ACC Championship.

I will try not to go into too much detail, but our defense will be very loaded. We return our entire secondary, one of the best linebackers in the ACC, and will have a very talented defensive line. Jeremy Cash could potentially be the ACC defensive player of the year in 2015. Kelby Brown should return to his All-ACC status and be a vocal and very talented leader of the defense playing MLB. Carolos Wray, A.J. Wolfe, and Mike Ramsey return on the D-line. We also have some very talented and highly recruited redshirt freshmen that will see their first snaps this spring on the line.
On top of that defense, we could possibly have the best special teams in the ACC, (Martin, Monday, and Edwards). And on offense, our running backs are the best they have ever been, our offensive line will be experienced and talented, and our receivers are young, but should be a threat in this offense. And on top of everything I just said, our schedule will once again be one of the easiest in the conference, and our toughest games, (Miami, GT, NW) will all be at home.

The reason I just laid all of that out is to show how good this team could be next season. If healthy, the talent of the 2015 roster could turn into the best team we have seen at Duke…ever. I do not understand the concept of “staying true” to your recruits and all of that Bull****. All of us are Duke Basketball fans. Does coach K stay true to his McDonald’s All-Americans that do not live up to the hype? The answer is no. Coach K recruits over guys all the time. That is why we see a good amount of players leave the program. Coach K recruits every single season to win a national championship. We should all be rooting for Coach Cutcliffe to do the same thing. If Thomas Sirk or Nicco Pierre are not capable of being better than Anthony Boone was this previous season, then Coach Cut should be looking to bring in someone like Braxton Miller to win NOW. My fear is that Coach Cut will stick with Thomas Sirk in 2015 and he will have the same type of season that Anthony had this year. My fear is that the 2015 team will have a similar result to the 2014 team, when its talent, experience, and potential is capable of winning 10 or 11 games and playing an ACC Championship game in Charlotte, and a New Year’s Six bowl game.

I hope I am wrong. I hope Thomas Sirk or Nicco Pierre surprises all of us in 2015 and leads the team to Charlotte. But the idea that either of them deserves the job only because they were recruited out of high school by Cutcliffe is a joke. If a better QB shows interest in Duke and could help the team immediately, then it is perfectly fair and expected for the coaching staff to be interested in whoever it may be. We all need to realize how much talent is in this program right now. 9 wins was okay, but the 2014 Duke team should have won the Coastal division. If you were at the VT game, you should agree. Next year, the expectation of winning the division should and will be the same as it was in 2014.

Do you think Alex Murphy was happy about Jabari Parker being recruited by Duke?

Olympic Fan
01-07-2015, 01:17 PM
After reading every post on this thread, I have not seen anyone that thinks about this situation the same way as I do. I understand that this program is still in the building process, but the 2015 team that will take the field at Wallace-Wade has the talent and experience to win the Coastal division and play for an ACC Championship.

I will try not to go into too much detail, but our defense will be very loaded. We return our entire secondary, one of the best linebackers in the ACC, and will have a very talented defensive line. Jeremy Cash could potentially be the ACC defensive player of the year in 2015. Kelby Brown should return to his All-ACC status and be a vocal and very talented leader of the defense playing MLB. Carolos Wray, A.J. Wolfe, and Mike Ramsey return on the D-line. We also have some very talented and highly recruited redshirt freshmen that will see their first snaps this spring on the line.
On top of that defense, we could possibly have the best special teams in the ACC, (Martin, Monday, and Edwards). And on offense, our running backs are the best they have ever been, our offensive line will be experienced and talented, and our receivers are young, but should be a threat in this offense. And on top of everything I just said, our schedule will once again be one of the easiest in the conference, and our toughest games, (Miami, GT, NW) will all be at home.

The reason I just laid all of that out is to show how good this team could be next season. If healthy, the talent of the 2015 roster could turn into the best team we have seen at Duke…ever. I do not understand the concept of “staying true” to your recruits and all of that Bull****. All of us are Duke Basketball fans. Does coach K stay true to his McDonald’s All-Americans that do not live up to the hype? The answer is no. Coach K recruits over guys all the time. That is why we see a good amount of players leave the program. Coach K recruits every single season to win a national championship. We should all be rooting for Coach Cutcliffe to do the same thing. If Thomas Sirk or Nicco Pierre are not capable of being better than Anthony Boone was this previous season, then Coach Cut should be looking to bring in someone like Braxton Miller to win NOW. My fear is that Coach Cut will stick with Thomas Sirk in 2015 and he will have the same type of season that Anthony had this year. My fear is that the 2015 team will have a similar result to the 2014 team, when its talent, experience, and potential is capable of winning 10 or 11 games and playing an ACC Championship game in Charlotte, and a New Year’s Six bowl game.

I hope I am wrong. I hope Thomas Sirk or Nicco Pierre surprises all of us in 2015 and leads the team to Charlotte. But the idea that either of them deserves the job only because they were recruited out of high school by Cutcliffe is a joke. If a better QB shows interest in Duke and could help the team immediately, then it is perfectly fair and expected for the coaching staff to be interested in whoever it may be. We all need to realize how much talent is in this program right now. 9 wins was okay, but the 2014 Duke team should have won the Coastal division. If you were at the VT game, you should agree. Next year, the expectation of winning the division should and will be the same as it was in 2014.

Do you think Alex Murphy was happy about Jabari Parker being recruited by Duke?

I agreed with everything you said in the first two graphs, then I think you went off track.

First, "best team we have seen at Duke" which is fine, since it implies fairly recent years. And I agree, that 2015 could be the best Duke team in 50 years.

But then you added the world "ever" and that's when I jump ship. This team can be very good, but I very much doubt it's in a class with the No. 2 in the nation 1938 team or most of Wade and Murray's powers in the 1930-65 era.

I also think you make too much of one guy's tweet linking Duke to Braxton Miller. I'm not knocking Adam Rowe, who knows much more about recruiting than I do, but his link between Duke and Miller has not been picked up by anybody else. Most of the writers close to the situation insist that Miller will either stay at OSU or land at another big program -- Oregon and FSU have been the most mentioned destinations.

I really don't think it's a matter of Cut deciding between Miller or his young QBs. I strongly doubt that he has that choice.

And I don't understand why you are so confident of young guys stepping up at WR and defensive line and offensive line to fill the gaps -- I am equally confident -- then not as confident that one of our young QBs will step up. When has Cut not had at least a solid QB? He recruited these guys for a reason and unlike us, he's seen them in practices and scrimmages. Everything I hear is that he is very confident in his QB situation next year.

If he's right, I go back to your first two graphs. This can and probably will be one of the best Duke teams in the last few decades.

wolfpackdevil
01-07-2015, 01:25 PM
I agreed with everything you said in the first two graphs, then I think you went off track.

First, "best team we have seen at Duke" which is fine, since it implies fairly recent years. And I agree, that 2015 could be the best Duke team in 50 years.

But then you added the world "ever" and that's when I jump ship. This team can be very good, but I very much doubt it's in a class with the No. 2 in the nation 1938 team or most of Wade and Murray's powers in the 1930-65 era.

I also think you make too much of one guy's tweet linking Duke to Braxton Miller. I'm not knocking Adam Rowe, who knows much more about recruiting than I do, but his link between Duke and Miller has not been picked up by anybody else. Most of the writers close to the situation insist that Miller will either stay at OSU or land at another big program -- Oregon and FSU have been the most mentioned destinations.

I really don't think it's a matter of Cut deciding between Miller or his young QBs. I strongly doubt that he has that choice.

And I don't understand why you are so confident of young guys stepping up at WR and defensive line and offensive line to fill the gaps -- I am equally confident -- then not as confident that one of our young QBs will step up. When has Cut not had at least a solid QB? He recruited these guys for a reason and unlike us, he's seen them in practices and scrimmages. Everything I hear is that he is very confident in his QB situation next year.

If he's right, I go back to your first two graphs. This can and probably will be one of the best Duke teams in the last few decades.

Okay, obviously I was not comparing the potential 2015 team to the teams in the 1930s and 40s. People on ESPN do not even make those comparisons. And it is silly for us to compare teams from pre-WWII to current years.

I also was not saying that Cutcliffe is choosing between Miller and Sirk/Pierre. I was just saying that if Miller was interested, it would be smart to at least make a phone call.

And I am confident about the WR's and DL due to the reports of how good some of those guys are. My reasoning for that is that the redshirt freshmen we will have at those positions seem to be strong, (Taylor, Lee, Cerenord, Ferguson).

You are right about Cutcliffe always having a solid QB. But there has always been a starting QB for Cutcliffe while he has been at Duke. Thad Lewis was the obvious choice when Cut got here. Sean Renfree was a highly touted recruit and filled Thad's position as soon as Spring ball started. (If you remember, Renfree won a game at Army during Thad's senior season.) And then Anthony Boone was the clear-cut choice to replace Renfree. (Boone won an ACC game against Virginia during his sophomore year as the backup.) This year is different. This will be the first time since Cut has been here that he does not have someone returning at QB with a start under his belt. There will most likely be an open competition in spring camp, which has also never really happened during Cut's time here.

Olympic Fan
01-07-2015, 01:44 PM
Okay, obviously I was not comparing the potential 2015 team to the teams in the 1930s and 40s. People on ESPN do not even make those comparisons. And it is silly for us to compare teams from pre-WWII to current years.I also was not saying that Cutcliffe is choosing between Miller and Sirk/Pierre. I was just saying that if Miller was interested, it would be smart to at least make a phone call.

And I am confident about the WR's and DL due to the reports of how good some of those guys are. My reasoning for that is that the redshirt freshmen we will have at those positions seem to be strong, (Taylor, Lee, Cerenord, Ferguson).

You are right about Cutcliffe always having a solid QB. But there has always been a starting QB for Cutcliffe while he has been at Duke. Thad Lewis was the obvious choice when Cut got here. Sean Renfree was a highly touted recruit and filled Thad's position as soon as Spring ball started. (If you remember, Renfree won a game at Army during Thad's senior season.) And then Anthony Boone was the clear-cut choice to replace Renfree. (Boone won an ACC game against Virginia during his sophomore year as the backup.) This year is different. This will be the first time since Cut has been here that he does not have someone returning at QB with a start under his belt. There will most likely be an open competition in spring camp, which has also never really happened during Cut's time here.

I would have agreed if you had not said "the best team ... ever" And we're not just talking about pre-WWII. Murray's great teams were in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

You're talking about the good reports on redshirt freshmen such as Taylor, Lee, Cerenord and Ferguson ... but if you listen you can hear similar stuff about Pierre, who is after all the top-rated QB Cut has signed since Renfree (who was his very first recruit at Duke). And those who have seen Sirk run the whole offense have been impressed. Cut has seen more of that than any of us.

Have a little faith in Cut's ability to see and refine quarterbacks.

wolfpackdevil
01-07-2015, 01:50 PM
I would have agreed if you had not said "the best team ... ever" And we're not just talking about pre-WWII. Murray's great teams were in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

You're talking about the good reports on redshirt freshmen such as Taylor, Lee, Cerenord and Ferguson ... but if you listen you can hear similar stuff about Pierre, who is after all the top-rated QB Cut has signed since Renfree (who was his very first recruit at Duke). And those who have seen Sirk run the whole offense have been impressed. Cut has seen more of that than any of us.

Have a little faith in Cut's ability to see and refine quarterbacks.

I'll have faith.

I agree with everything you said, but I thought it was very strange that Sirk never got a possession to himself this season. Even when Boone was struggling mightily, Cut never gave Sirk a chance. In 2013, Cut was very fast to sit Boone and play Connette for multiple possessions. I figured if the coaching staff had any confidence in Sirk's ability to run the whole offense, he would have been given a chance during the Miami/Cuse/VT games.

Olympic Fan
01-07-2015, 02:53 PM
I'll have faith.

I agree with everything you said, but I thought it was very strange that Sirk never got a possession to himself this season. Even when Boone was struggling mightily, Cut never gave Sirk a chance. In 2013, Cut was very fast to sit Boone and play Connette for multiple possessions. I figured if the coaching staff had any confidence in Sirk's ability to run the whole offense, he would have been given a chance during the Miami/Cuse/VT games.

The only game I am disappointed that he did not pull Boone and give Sirk a chance was the UNC loss.

Obviously, we all know that Boone sputtered at times. He did in 2013 too. And contrary to your assertion that Cut was quick to sit Boone and play Connette on multiple occasions, it actually happened once -- one series in the NC State game. Against Virginia, when Boone started slow and Duke fell behind 22-0, Connette never took over -- he only played on short yardage. Against Virginia Tech, when Boone had one of the worst games of his career (7-of-25 for 104 yards and four interceptions), Connette only played in short-yardage situation (his one pass completing was a 47 yard TD on a 4th and one play). Boone went all the way in the loss to FSU. Connette only took over when Boone was hurt in the Memphis game. He started the Georgia Tech game, the Pitt game (both losses) and the Troy game when Boone was out. But as soon as Boone returned, he was the QB.

You know why? Because he made winning players -- even in games where he struggled. The Virginia Tech game was the best example. Boone directed a two-minute drill at the end of the half to set up what proved to be the winning FG and he directed the TD drive early in the second half, when his running got most of the yardage.

That's why, I think Cut never pulled Boone in the games you cite -- Miami, Syracuse and Virginia Tech. As poorly as Boone played at times, Duke was in all those games to the end. He was waiting for Boone to make the winning plays -- he did against Cuse, hitting the late long pass to Blakeney. And even against Virginia Tech, Boone put Duke in position to make the winning play -- Ross Martin just uncharacteristically missed the winning field goal.

Against UNC Boone was terrible, but so was everybody else. Early in the season, when games with Elon and Kansas were out of hand in Duke's favor, he did play Sirk at QB -- but with the score so lopsided, he wasn't allowed to cut it loose. Against UNC, I was hoping that at some point, Sirk would get his chance since the issue was decided.

But over two seasons, whenever the game was up for grabs, Cut counted on Boone to win the game -- and in most cases, he did. It didn't really matter whether Connette or Sirk was the backup -- it was Boone's team.

jv001
01-07-2015, 03:04 PM
The only game I am disappointed that he did not pull Boone and give Sirk a chance was the UNC loss.
Obviously, we all know that Boone sputtered at times. He did in 2013 too. And contrary to your assertion that Cut was quick to sit Boone and play Connette on multiple occasions, it actually happened once -- one series in the NC State game. Against Virginia, when Boone started slow and Duke fell behind 22-0, Connette never took over -- he only played on short yardage. Against Virginia Tech, when Boone had one of the worst games of his career (7-of-25 for 104 yards and four interceptions), Connette only played in short-yardage situation (his one pass completing was a 47 yard TD on a 4th and one play). Boone went all the way in the loss to FSU. Connette only took over when Boone was hurt in the Memphis game. He started the Georgia Tech game, the Pitt game (both losses) and the Troy game when Boone was out. But as soon as Boone returned, he was the QB.

You know why? Because he made winning players -- even in games where he struggled. The Virginia Tech game was the best example. Boone directed a two-minute drill at the end of the half to set up what proved to be the winning FG and he directed the TD drive early in the second half, when his running got most of the yardage.

That's why, I think Cut never pulled Boone in the games you cite -- Miami, Syracuse and Virginia Tech. As poorly as Boone played at times, Duke was in all those games to the end. He was waiting for Boone to make the winning plays -- he did against Cuse, hitting the late long pass to Blakeney. And even against Virginia Tech, Boone put Duke in position to make the winning play -- Ross Martin just uncharacteristically missed the winning field goal.

Against UNC Boone was terrible, but so was everybody else. Early in the season, when games with Elon and Kansas were out of hand in Duke's favor, he did play Sirk at QB -- but with the score so lopsided, he wasn't allowed to cut it loose. Against UNC, I was hoping that at some point, Sirk would get his chance since the issue was decided.

But over two seasons, whenever the game was up for grabs, Cut counted on Boone to win the game -- and in most cases, he did. It didn't really matter whether Connette or Sirk was the backup -- it was Boone's team.

I agree on all your points, but I would throw in the bowl game. It was easy to see Anthony was way off in the first quarter. I would have liked to see Sirk in if nothing else so Boone could watch from the sidelines and maybe get his nerves settled. I have faith in Cut and I think he will have a QB ready after Spring practice. GoDuke!

Olympic Fan
01-07-2015, 03:10 PM
I agree on all your points, but I would throw in the bowl game. It was easy to see Anthony was way off in the first quarter. I would have liked to see Sirk in if nothing else so Boone could watch from the sidelines and maybe get his nerves settled. I have faith in Cut and I think he will have a QB ready after Spring practice. GoDuke!

But the bowl game is the perfect example of why Cut stuck with Boone through thick and thin.

He did get off to a terrible start, but even without being benched, Boone brought us back -- back to a 31-30 lead with five minutes to play. Even with his early struggles, he put us in position to win the game. And he almost pulled it out in the final seconds. While I'd love to have that throw to Crowder back (although it was right on the money, it was if he didn't anticipate the safety being there), the fumble by Blakeney inside the 10 and the long KO return were as much to blame for the loss.

BD80
01-07-2015, 03:16 PM
I would have agreed if you had not said "the best team ... ever" And we're not just talking about pre-WWII. Murray's great teams were in the late 1950s and early 1960s. ...

Like duh, WWII was back in the 50s and 60s. You know, its "history," back when most people today weren't alive.

Just think, next year, people that were not alive in the 20th century will be driving.

Coach K and Coach Cut are probably already scouting kids born in this millennium.

Sigh

jv001
01-07-2015, 03:17 PM
But the bowl game is the perfect example of why Cut stuck with Boone through thick and thin.

He did get off to a terrible start, but even without being benched, Boone brought us back -- back to a 31-30 lead with five minutes to play. Even with his early struggles, he put us in position to win the game. And he almost pulled it out in the final seconds. While I'd love to have that throw to Crowder back (although it was right on the money, it was if he didn't anticipate the safety being there), the fumble by Blakeney inside the 10 and the long KO return were as much to blame for the loss.

More so, I think. GoDuke!

Bob Green
01-07-2015, 03:24 PM
Like duh, WWII was back in the 50s and 60s.

I'm missing your point. WWII was 1937-1945.

BD80
01-07-2015, 03:37 PM
I'm missing your point. WWII was 1937-1945.

Then the sarcasm was not adequately conveyed. Sorry

Bob Green
01-07-2015, 03:40 PM
Then the sarcasm was not adequately conveyed. Sorry

No problem. Comedy, including sarcasm, frequently flies right over my head. I'm the guy sitting around trying to figure out why everyone else is laughing.

Listen to Quants
01-07-2015, 04:15 PM
I'm missing your point. WWII was 1937-1945.

They moved it?

jv001
01-07-2015, 04:17 PM
I'm missing your point. WWII was 1937-1945.

Isn't that the War where Germany bombed Pearl Harbor? GoDuke!

duke79
01-07-2015, 04:23 PM
Isn't that the War where Germany bombed Pearl Harbor? GoDuke!

I thought Germany bombed the USS Maine in Havana Harbor?

jv001
01-07-2015, 04:32 PM
I thought Germany bombed the USS Maine in Havana Harbor?

Was it a mine or was it caused by combustion in the coal bunker. 2 out of 3 investigations said it was not a mine. I don't know if we'll ever know. GoDuke!

Bob Green
01-07-2015, 04:47 PM
Was it a mine or was it caused by combustion in the coal bunker.

It was guncotton.

OldPhiKap
01-07-2015, 04:50 PM
It was guncotton.

It was Colonel Mustard, with a candlestick, in the Conservatory.

I remember the Maine -- but I don't remember why.

devildeac
01-07-2015, 05:03 PM
They moved it?

Right after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...

:rolleyes:

devildeac
01-07-2015, 05:07 PM
Then the sarcasm was not adequately conveyed. Sorry

This ;) and this :rolleyes: are stupid, but highly useful little items. They've kept me outta trouble. Most of the time:o.

Olympic Fan
01-07-2015, 07:07 PM
Was it a mine or was it caused by combustion in the coal bunker. 2 out of 3 investigations said it was not a mine. I don't know if we'll ever know. GoDuke!

Actually, the count is three major investigations concluded it was an external mine (the 1898 official Sampson Board of Inquiry; the 1911 Vreeland Board of Inquiry -- commissioned when the wreck was raised and examined -- and the 1998 National Geographic inquiry conducted by Advanced Marine Enterprises. Two major investigations have blamed a coal fire -- the 1898 Spanish investigation and Admiral Hiram Rickover's 1974-76 private inquiry. There is a 2002 History Channel show that also postulated a coal fire cause, but that wasn't as new investigation, merely one of that channels cheap "Did aliens inspire the first Thanksgiving?" histrionics.

Bob Green and I are probably the only people on this board who really care about a historical event from 117 years ago, but the uninformed dismissal of the Maine explosion as an accident or (the Communist Party position) that it was destroyed by the United States to provoke a war is a sore point with me.

Please allow me to offer a few reasons why I firmly believe that the Maine was destroyed by an external mine:

-- Several days before the explosion on Feb. 15, Captain Sigsbee of the Maine and US Counsel-General Fitzhugh Lee (Robert E Lee's nephew) were returning from the opera when they spotted a crude poster on the walls of a building, showing the Maine blowing up. There were dozens, maybe hundreds of such posters spotted BEFORE the explosion.

Couple that with the fact that the Maine is the only United States Navy warship since the American Revolution to (purportedly) blow up due to an internal explosion.

The claim that the Maine was destroyed by internal means would be stretching coincidence to the breaking point -- the only US warship ever destroyed in such fashion and it happens in a foreign harbor where somebody is threatening to blow up the ship?

-- The coal bunker fires of the type that supposedly blew up the Maine were a well-known hazard in ships of that era. The Oregon had -- and dealt with -- a coal bunker fire during its famous run from San Francisco to Key West. Since such fires were so prevalent, US Navy ships of the period were equipped with simple, but effective warning devices in all coal bunkers. In fact, the Maine detected a smoldering coal bunker fire more than two weeks before the explosion and dealt with it. Is it possible that remnants of that fire continued to smolder and burst into flames on the night of Feb. 15? Sure it's possible, but the bunker in question was monitored in person twice a day and just hours before the explosion, it was visually inspected. And none of the alarm systems designed to detect such a fire long before it became dangerous were triggered before the explosion.

It's possible and all the devices and visual inspections failed, but again we're stretching credibility.

-- If the Maine was blown up, how was it done? There are two suspicious circumstances. One was the location of the Maine's anchorage. There was testimony at the Sampson board by several veteran pilots of Havana harbor who claimed that the anchorage assigned to the Maine had never been used before. At the time, it was standard practice for areas of military harbors to be mined for protection. Is it possible the Spanish authorities assigned the Maine to an anchorage where it could be destroyed if necessary?

Personally, I think this is unlikely. But the other scenario makes more sense to me. Two nights before the explosion, in the dark, early hours of a moonless night, lookouts on the Maine reporting hearing, but not seeing, a commotion off the ship's port beam. Among other noises, they reported a loud splash. A small boat was sent to investigate, but by the time the boat was manned and lowered, nothing was found.

This is not some ex-post facto explanation, but was written in the Maine's log before the explosion.

There's one other clue -- the Maine was anchored firmly at the bow, but very loosely at the stern. The ship swung like a pendulum with the winds and tides during the three weeks it was at anchor. At the moment of the explosion, the ship was located approximately where the commotion was heard two nights earlier. It was the first time in that 48 hour span that it had swung to that position.

Personally, I think the best evidence is that a mine was dropped from a small boat two nights earlier. It was detonated the first time the Maine swung to be in position above it.

-- Who did it?

I personally do not think it was done as an act of official Spanish policy. First, rational Spanish officials knew from the beginning that the sinking of the Maine would be a disaster for them. Secondly, if it had been, I feel confident that historians would have discovered some evidence in state papers.

However, the Spanish Army at the time harbored a number of fanatical right-wing cults who believed very strong in Spanish "honor". They saw the presence of the Maine in Havana harbor as an insult. I think it's most likely that the Army fanatics organized the explosion to teach the Americans a lesson. The second most likely scenario is that a small group of Cuban rebels engineered the explosion, hoping it would provoke America into war. I lean towards the first explanation because it would have been easier for Spanish officers to operate freely in the police state that Havana and Havana harbor were in February of 1898.

-- As for the studies that postulate a coal-fire as the source of the blaze, that has to remain (a remote) possibility. Even the two official US Navy inquiries admitted that as a possibility. I have a lot of respect for Admiral Rickover (the father of the nuclear Navy), but I've read his 1976 book and most of it is not devoted to proving that it was a coal bunker fire, Most of it was devoted to explaining how the shape of the wreck COULD have been caused by an external explosion (the shape of the wreck was one of the major factors in the conclusion of the Vreeland Report). He then proceeds to demonstrate how a fire in the coal bunker COULD have ignited the ammo in the 6-inch handling rooms (although he doesn't address the safety precautions that were in place to prevent that or suggest why they failed).

I hope you'll forgive the rant, but I care a lot about historical accuracy and this is one of the subjects that bug me because so many people think they know something when they cite an internal explosion as a cause of the Maine sinking.

94duke
01-07-2015, 07:28 PM
It was Colonel Mustard, with a candlestick, in the Conservatory.

I need a Clue. Is this thread about FB? ;)

roywhite
01-07-2015, 07:35 PM
I need a Clue. Is this thread about FB? ;)

No this is DBR, where a thread hijacking can turn to the educational, and esoteric.

CameronBornAndBred
01-07-2015, 08:32 PM
I need a Clue. Is this thread about FB? ;)


No this is DBR, where a thread hijacking can turn to the educational, and esoteric.
This is also DBR, where a thread can turn into a festival of rolling eyes. No thread has a Monopoly on puns or pop-culture reference jokes, however. Happily, like education, they are spread evenly and in abundance.

BD80
01-07-2015, 11:24 PM
This is also DBR, where a thread can turn into a festival of rolling eyes. No thread has a Monopoly on puns or pop-culture reference jokes, however. Happily, like education, they are spread evenly and in abundance.

Ooooh. Mentioning "Monopoly" and puns and rolling eyes in one post?

You're taking a real Chance there.

camion
01-08-2015, 07:13 AM
Ooooh. Mentioning "Monopoly" and puns and rolling eyes in one post?

You're taking a real Chance there.

Okay that's enough. Go to Jail. Go directly to Jail.

jv001
01-08-2015, 08:10 AM
Actually, the count is three major investigations concluded it was an external mine (the 1898 official Sampson Board of Inquiry; the 1911 Vreeland Board of Inquiry -- commissioned when the wreck was raised and examined -- and the 1998 National Geographic inquiry conducted by Advanced Marine Enterprises. Two major investigations have blamed a coal fire -- the 1898 Spanish investigation and Admiral Hiram Rickover's 1974-76 private inquiry. There is a 2002 History Channel show that also postulated a coal fire cause, but that wasn't as new investigation, merely one of that channels cheap "Did aliens inspire the first Thanksgiving?" histrionics.

Bob Green and I are probably the only people on this board who really care about a historical event from 117 years ago, but the uninformed dismissal of the Maine explosion as an accident or (the Communist Party position) that it was destroyed by the United States to provoke a war is a sore point with me.
Please allow me to offer a few reasons why I firmly believe that the Maine was destroyed by an external mine:



I hope you'll forgive the rant, but I care a lot about historical accuracy and this is one of the subjects that bug me because so many people think they know something when they cite an internal explosion as a cause of the Maine sinking.

First let me say that I wasn't making an assumption one way or the other. I trust you and Bob to have informed opinions because of your interest in History. Since I wasn't well informed on the subject, I went to Google and found that many people had different opinions on the Maine explosion. I didn't have an opinion one way or the other, but if I had to make guess, I'd go with your view on the incident because you know a lot more than I do about the Maine being destroyed. From what I read and reading your post, I believe it was probably a rebel fraction that set the mines. Now back to Duke basketball. God bless and GoDuke!

CameronBornAndBred
01-08-2015, 08:45 AM
Now back to Duke basketball. God bless and GoDuke!
But this is a football thread....:rolleyes:

devildeac
01-08-2015, 08:58 AM
But this is a football thread....:rolleyes:

Yea, but it's a Duke basketball bulletin board;).

OldPhiKap
01-08-2015, 09:00 AM
Yea, but it's a Duke basketball bulletin board;).

I thought every thread had to be about Kentucky.

devildeac
01-08-2015, 09:04 AM
I thought every thread had to be about Kentucky.


BBQ or basketball?

OldPhiKap
01-08-2015, 09:42 AM
BBQ or basketball?

yes.

DukieInKansas
01-08-2015, 09:58 AM
It was Colonel Mustard, with a candlestick, in the Conservatory.

I remember the Maine -- but I don't remember why.

I'd like to visit Maine. I'm sure if I do, I will remember it.

duke79
01-08-2015, 10:05 AM
Actually, the count is three major investigations concluded it was an external mine (the 1898 official Sampson Board of Inquiry; the 1911 Vreeland Board of Inquiry -- commissioned when the wreck was raised and examined -- and the 1998 National Geographic inquiry conducted by Advanced Marine Enterprises. Two major investigations have blamed a coal fire -- the 1898 Spanish investigation and Admiral Hiram Rickover's 1974-76 private inquiry. There is a 2002 History Channel show that also postulated a coal fire cause, but that wasn't as new investigation, merely one of that channels cheap "Did aliens inspire the first Thanksgiving?" histrionics.

Bob Green and I are probably the only people on this board who really care about a historical event from 117 years ago, but the uninformed dismissal of the Maine explosion as an accident or (the Communist Party position) that it was destroyed by the United States to provoke a war is a sore point with me.

Please allow me to offer a few reasons why I firmly believe that the Maine was destroyed by an external mine:

-- Several days before the explosion on Feb. 15, Captain Sigsbee of the Maine and US Counsel-General Fitzhugh Lee (Robert E Lee's nephew) were returning from the opera when they spotted a crude poster on the walls of a building, showing the Maine blowing up. There were dozens, maybe hundreds of such posters spotted BEFORE the explosion.

Couple that with the fact that the Maine is the only United States Navy warship since the American Revolution to (purportedly) blow up due to an internal explosion.

The claim that the Maine was destroyed by internal means would be stretching coincidence to the breaking point -- the only US warship ever destroyed in such fashion and it happens in a foreign harbor where somebody is threatening to blow up the ship?

-- The coal bunker fires of the type that supposedly blew up the Maine were a well-known hazard in ships of that era. The Oregon had -- and dealt with -- a coal bunker fire during its famous run from San Francisco to Key West. Since such fires were so prevalent, US Navy ships of the period were equipped with simple, but effective warning devices in all coal bunkers. In fact, the Maine detected a smoldering coal bunker fire more than two weeks before the explosion and dealt with it. Is it possible that remnants of that fire continued to smolder and burst into flames on the night of Feb. 15? Sure it's possible, but the bunker in question was monitored in person twice a day and just hours before the explosion, it was visually inspected. And none of the alarm systems designed to detect such a fire long before it became dangerous were triggered before the explosion.

It's possible and all the devices and visual inspections failed, but again we're stretching credibility.

-- If the Maine was blown up, how was it done? There are two suspicious circumstances. One was the location of the Maine's anchorage. There was testimony at the Sampson board by several veteran pilots of Havana harbor who claimed that the anchorage assigned to the Maine had never been used before. At the time, it was standard practice for areas of military harbors to be mined for protection. Is it possible the Spanish authorities assigned the Maine to an anchorage where it could be destroyed if necessary?

Personally, I think this is unlikely. But the other scenario makes more sense to me. Two nights before the explosion, in the dark, early hours of a moonless night, lookouts on the Maine reporting hearing, but not seeing, a commotion off the ship's port beam. Among other noises, they reported a loud splash. A small boat was sent to investigate, but by the time the boat was manned and lowered, nothing was found.

This is not some ex-post facto explanation, but was written in the Maine's log before the explosion.

There's one other clue -- the Maine was anchored firmly at the bow, but very loosely at the stern. The ship swung like a pendulum with the winds and tides during the three weeks it was at anchor. At the moment of the explosion, the ship was located approximately where the commotion was heard two nights earlier. It was the first time in that 48 hour span that it had swung to that position.

Personally, I think the best evidence is that a mine was dropped from a small boat two nights earlier. It was detonated the first time the Maine swung to be in position above it.

-- Who did it?

I personally do not think it was done as an act of official Spanish policy. First, rational Spanish officials knew from the beginning that the sinking of the Maine would be a disaster for them. Secondly, if it had been, I feel confident that historians would have discovered some evidence in state papers.

However, the Spanish Army at the time harbored a number of fanatical right-wing cults who believed very strong in Spanish "honor". They saw the presence of the Maine in Havana harbor as an insult. I think it's most likely that the Army fanatics organized the explosion to teach the Americans a lesson. The second most likely scenario is that a small group of Cuban rebels engineered the explosion, hoping it would provoke America into war. I lean towards the first explanation because it would have been easier for Spanish officers to operate freely in the police state that Havana and Havana harbor were in February of 1898.

-- As for the studies that postulate a coal-fire as the source of the blaze, that has to remain (a remote) possibility. Even the two official US Navy inquiries admitted that as a possibility. I have a lot of respect for Admiral Rickover (the father of the nuclear Navy), but I've read his 1976 book and most of it is not devoted to proving that it was a coal bunker fire, Most of it was devoted to explaining how the shape of the wreck COULD have been caused by an external explosion (the shape of the wreck was one of the major factors in the conclusion of the Vreeland Report). He then proceeds to demonstrate how a fire in the coal bunker COULD have ignited the ammo in the 6-inch handling rooms (although he doesn't address the safety precautions that were in place to prevent that or suggest why they failed).

I hope you'll forgive the rant, but I care a lot about historical accuracy and this is one of the subjects that bug me because so many people think they know something when they cite an internal explosion as a cause of the Maine sinking.
Hold on a second.......I'm confused. Are you saying the Germans did NOT blow up the Maine and that that was NOT the reason for the US to enter World War II??

jv001
01-08-2015, 10:06 AM
I'd like to visit Maine. I'm sure if I do, I will remember it.

Not me, I don't want to visit anywhere it's colder than here in good old North Carolina. GoDuke!

NYBri
01-08-2015, 10:08 AM
Yea, but it's a Duke basketball bulletin board;).

That said, I don't think Dre is getting enough PT.

DukieInKansas
01-08-2015, 10:15 AM
Not me, I don't want to visit anywhere it's colder than here in good old North Carolina. GoDuke!

I think it might be colder in Kansas at the moment than in Maine. Overnight was below 0. Today will be a balmy 25. :D

Dukehky
01-08-2015, 10:16 AM
What the hell happened on this thread?

jv001
01-08-2015, 10:35 AM
What the hell happened on this thread?

Not any transfer news to talk about. GoDuke!

peloton
01-08-2015, 11:09 AM
First let me say that I wasn't making an assumption one way or the other. I trust you and Bob to have informed opinions because of your interest in History. Since I wasn't well informed on the subject, I went to Google and found that many people had different opinions on the Maine explosion. I didn't have an opinion one way or the other, but if I had to make guess, I'd go with your view on the incident because you know a lot more than I do about the Maine being destroyed. From what I read and reading your post, I believe it was probably a rebel fraction that set the mines. Now back to Duke basketball. God bless and GoDuke!

Not so fast, although I've heard of these rebel fractions I'd like to get some more specifics. I understand that the 1/2s (for example) were more commonly known than say, the 4/8s although they were the same thing more or less. Other than that though I don't know much history in regard to the rebel fractions.

killerleft
01-08-2015, 11:17 AM
"Mines had nothing to do with it. It was MIMES."

-Emily Litella

nocilla
01-08-2015, 11:25 AM
Not so fast, although I've heard of these rebel fractions I'd like to get some more specifics. I understand that the 1/2s (for example) were more commonly known than say, the 4/8s although they were the same thing more or less. Other than that though I don't know much history in regard to the rebel fractions.

Are you refering to the halflings who liberated the Shire from Saruman?

OldPhiKap
01-08-2015, 11:44 AM
Not so fast, although I've heard of these rebel fractions I'd like to get some more specifics. I understand that the 1/2s (for example) were more commonly known than say, the 4/8s although they were the same thing more or less. Other than that though I don't know much history in regard to the rebel fractions.


Are you refering to the halflings who liberated the Shire from Saruman?

I think 8/4 is a rebel fraction. It could be an integer -- but chooses not to be in order to be different.

And of course, (pi/2) is just irrational.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
01-08-2015, 02:06 PM
A friend of mine who is close to the Ohio State Program, told me today while we were playing NBA2k15 that he thinks Braxton Miller is going to transfer. However, no other specifics were given. By close to the program I mean he bought a ticket to a game once and enjoyed himself while there.

Anyone else hear anything else of importance regarding transfers to Duke?

jv001
01-08-2015, 02:18 PM
Not so fast, although I've heard of these rebel fractions I'd like to get some more specifics. I understand that the 1/2s (for example) were more commonly known than say, the 4/8s although they were the same thing more or less. Other than that though I don't know much history in regard to the rebel fractions.

I'd better hit the edit button if I'm going to make that kind of mistake. A faction not a fraction in this case. Good catch. Now on to Duke FB transfers. GoDuke!

brevity
01-08-2015, 02:47 PM
A friend of mine who is close to the Ohio State Program, told me today while we were playing NBA2k15 that he thinks Braxton Miller is going to transfer. However, no other specifics were given. By close to the program I mean he bought a ticket to a game once and enjoyed himself while there.

Well, in that case I know someone who is even closer to the Ohio State Program. He bought a ticket to the game, bought a Program, and rubbed it against his face.

crimsondevil
01-08-2015, 02:57 PM
I think 8/4 is a rebel fraction. It could be an integer -- but chooses not to be in order to be different.

And of course, (pi/2) is just irrational.

Personally, I think that i/2 is just a mathematically-inclined conspiracy theorist's dream. It's not even real.

Olympic Fan
01-08-2015, 02:59 PM
we're already four days into second semester classes.

You'd think that if we were adding any more transfers -- especially somebody to compete for the starting quarterback job next fall -- they'd be in school by now. A new quarterback, even somebody as accomplished as Braxton Miller, would need to be here for spring practice. Maybe at another position, a guy could arrive in August and win a playing spot, but very, very unlikely to happen at QB.

I think the transfer watch is over (so we can return this thread to its prime purpose -- deciding who sunk the Maine).

BD80
01-08-2015, 02:59 PM
Personally, I have grave doubts whether i/2 is even a real fraction.

Sheesh. There's no end to it, is there?

jv001
01-08-2015, 03:50 PM
we're already four days into second semester classes.

You'd think that if we were adding any more transfers -- especially somebody to compete for the starting quarterback job next fall -- they'd be in school by now. A new quarterback, even somebody as accomplished as Braxton Miller, would need to be here for spring practice. Maybe at another position, a guy could arrive in August and win a playing spot, but very, very unlikely to happen at QB.

I think the transfer watch is over (so we can return this thread to its prime purpose -- deciding who sunk the Maine).

Well, it wasn't me, :cool: GoDuke!

sagegrouse
01-08-2015, 05:07 PM
What the hell happened on this thread?

Well the "thread of logic" here is rather tattered.

DU82
01-08-2015, 07:10 PM
we're already four days into second semester classes.

I think the transfer watch is over (so we can return this thread to its prime purpose -- deciding who sunk the Maine).

Well, if Henen of Troy had the face that could launch 1000 ships, somewhere there must be a face that could sink a few.

Sylvia Hatchell?

devildeac
01-08-2015, 08:00 PM
Well, if Henen of Troy had the face that could launch 1000 ships, somewhere there must be a face that could sink a few.

Sylvia Hatchell?

If the face don't getcha then the wardrobe will.

Tripping William
01-08-2015, 08:07 PM
Well, if Henen of Troy had the face that could launch 1000 ships, somewhere there must be a face that could sink a few.

Sylvia Hatchell?

Or that "appealing" Jan Boxill

OldPhiKap
01-08-2015, 08:41 PM
Well, if Henen of Troy had the face that could launch 1000 ships, somewhere there must be a face that could sink a few.

Sylvia Hatchell?


If the face don't getcha then the wardrobe will.

"You said you were an actress
Yes, I believe you are
I thought you'd be a star
So I drank up all the money,
yes I drank up all the money
With these phonies in this Hollywood bar
These friends of mine in this Hollywood bar

"Loneliness and frustration
We both came down with an acute case
When the lights came up at two
I caught a glimpse of you
And your face looked like something
Death brought with him in his suitcase

"Your pretty face it looked so wasted
Another pretty face devastated

"The French inhaler
he stamped and mailed her
So long, Norman
she said,
so long,
Norman"

-- Warren Zevon


http://youtu.be/QzLfYAcvGBg




Read more: Warren Zevon - The French Inhaler Lyrics | MetroLyrics

snowdenscold
01-08-2015, 10:30 PM
Not so fast, although I've heard of these rebel fractions I'd like to get some more specifics. I understand that the 1/2s (for example) were more commonly known than say, the 4/8s although they were the same thing more or less. Other than that though I don't know much history in regard to the rebel fractions.


I think 8/4 is a rebel fraction. It could be an integer -- but chooses not to be in order to be different.

And of course, (pi/2) is just irrational.
No, no.

8/4 was a time signature Bartok once composed a piece in.
4/8 sounds like something from the middle of Pat Metheny's First Circle.

All clear now?

OldPhiKap
01-08-2015, 10:47 PM
No, no.

8/4 was a time signature Bartok once composed a piece in.
4/8 sounds like something from the middle of Pat Metheny's First Circle.

All clear now?

The Grateful Dead had songs in 10/4 (Playing in the Band), 14/4 (Estimated Prothet), 11/4 (The Eleven), 7/4 (Lazy Lightning), 4/4 with a 7/4 jam in the middle (Uncle John's Band), and my personal favorite -- a song where half the band played 3/4 and the other half 4/4 so it chased itself but met every twelfth beat (The Other One a/k/a Cryptical Envelopment).

Pink Floyd's Money is in 7/4 with a 4/4 jam in the middle.

Those are all Hippy Fractions. Not many rock bands ever venture beyond 3/4 or 4/4.

(I am convinced after seeing them once that Time Loves A Hero by Little Feat is a round of some sort but cannot explain why I am convinced of that)

Henderson
01-08-2015, 11:13 PM
The Grateful Dead had songs in 10/4 (Playing in the Band), 14/4 (Estimated Prothet), 11/4 (The Eleven), 7/4 (Lazy Lightning), 4/4 with a 7/4 jam in the middle (Uncle John's Band), and my personal favorite -- a song where half the band played 3/4 and the other half 4/4 so it chased itself but met every twelfth beat (The Other One a/k/a Cryptical Envelopment).

Pink Floyd's Money is in 7/4 with a 4/4 jam in the middle.

Those are all Hippy Fractions. Not many rock bands ever venture beyond 3/4 or 4/4.


Then why were my friends always going on about 4/20? Seemed like dang near every band.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-09-2015, 06:11 AM
Then why were my friends always going on about 4/20? Seemed like dang near every band.

The overriding common denominator.

OldPhiKap
01-09-2015, 07:19 AM
Then why were my friends always going on about 4/20? Seemed like dang near every band.

That's an illegal fraction -- at least in 48/50.

CameronBornAndBred
01-09-2015, 08:21 AM
The Grateful Dead had songs in 10/4 (Playing in the Band), 14/4 (Estimated Prothet), 11/4 (The Eleven), 7/4 (Lazy Lightning), 4/4 with a 7/4 jam in the middle (Uncle John's Band), and my personal favorite -- a song where half the band played 3/4 and the other half 4/4 so it chased itself but met every twelfth beat (The Other One a/k/a Cryptical Envelopment).

Then they played in 7/4 on 7/4 in '87. (They also played three sets that show...damn.)
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~./gdead/dead-sets/87/7-4-87.txt

budwom
01-09-2015, 08:42 AM
we're already four days into second semester classes.

You'd think that if we were adding any more transfers -- especially somebody to compete for the starting quarterback job next fall -- they'd be in school by now. A new quarterback, even somebody as accomplished as Braxton Miller, would need to be here for spring practice. Maybe at another position, a guy could arrive in August and win a playing spot, but very, very unlikely to happen at QB.

I think the transfer watch is over (so we can return this thread to its prime purpose -- deciding who sunk the Maine).

Probably true, though by most accounts Miller won't be able to throw this Spring. And since he's graduated and would be taking something of a customized academic course at Duke, he could probably show up a week or two late, though that's probably unlikely at this point. Probably won't know for sure until after Monday's game.

JasonEvans
01-09-2015, 08:47 AM
Probably true, though by most accounts Miller won't be able to throw this Spring. And since he's graduated and would be taking something of a customized academic course at Duke, he could probably show up a week or two late, though that's probably unlikely at this point. Probably won't know for sure until after Monday's game.

I believe that graduation transfers, like Miller, typically show up in the summer after completing their final semester of their undergraduate career. Did Miller graduate early from tOSU or is he due to graduate in May, like his other classmates?

-Jason "FWIW, I agree that a football power like LSU, Oregon, or FSU likely makes a lot more sense for Miller" Evans

wolfpackdevil
01-09-2015, 08:51 AM
I believe that graduation transfers, like Miller, typically show up in the summer after completing their final semester of their undergraduate career. Did Miller graduate early from tOSU or is he due to graduate in May, like his other classmates?

-Jason "FWIW, I agree that a football power like LSU, Oregon, or FSU likely makes a lot more sense for Miller" Evans

Braxton was quoted to say that he was planning to graduate this past December. So he might already have his degree and be ready to leave.

But this situation is similar to Russell Wilson a few years ago. Russell didn't even decide he was going to Wisconsin until July. He showed up, had one month to learn the playbook, and ended up having an amazing season for the badgers. Sometimes, it's just about talent.

uh_no
01-09-2015, 09:43 AM
No, no.

8/4 was a time signature Bartok once composed a piece in.
4/8 sounds like something from the middle of Pat Metheny's First Circle.

All clear now?

4/8 is just 2/4 :)

First circle is in alternating 12/8 and 10/8 (with 8/8 and 4/4 tossed in)

broken up into

3 2 3 2 2
3 3 2 2

jv001
01-09-2015, 02:09 PM
Man, I can't believe I started this mess with a fraction instead of Faction GoDuke!:cool:

OldPhiKap
01-09-2015, 02:11 PM
Man, I can't believe I started this mess with a fraction instead of Faction GoDuke!:cool:

"For want of a nail, they lost the war."

(Although that kinda skips over a bunch)

johnb
01-09-2015, 02:17 PM
Braxton was quoted to say that he was planning to graduate this past December. So he might already have his degree and be ready to leave.

But this situation is similar to Russell Wilson a few years ago. Russell didn't even decide he was going to Wisconsin until July. He showed up, had one month to learn the playbook, and ended up having an amazing season for the badgers. Sometimes, it's just about talent.

My understanding is that he did graduate.
While it's becoming too late for him to get started with this semester, he may want to size up the situation this spring before committing to a transfer.
I'd still guess he'd go to an Oregon or FSU; these places may be more willing to promise a starting spot AND have more of a realistic chance for an NC, but I'd never bet against Cut if he is given a chance to persuade.

devildeac
01-09-2015, 02:37 PM
4/8 is just 2/4 :)

First circle is in alternating 12/8 and 10/8 (with 8/8 and 4/4 tossed in)

broken up into

3 2 3 2 2
3 3 2 2

"Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be..."

CameronBornAndBred
01-09-2015, 02:37 PM
Wasn't Paulus still playing basketball while Syracuse had Spring practice?

ricks68
01-09-2015, 03:11 PM
Man, I can't believe I started this mess with a fraction instead of Faction GoDuke!:cool:

So, then, all of us Crusties can look back on Brubeck for helping us getting into all this?:rolleyes:

ricks

uh_no
01-09-2015, 03:15 PM
So, then, all of us Crusties can look back on Brubeck for helping us getting into all this?:rolleyes:

ricks

this conversation on weird time signatures is really getting to me. I think I'm going to have to Take 5, guys.

ricks68
01-09-2015, 03:37 PM
Then there was the time a number of years ago when I strongly objected to a "needless posting" infraction I got hit with (considering that what I did was nothing compared to what others were doing), resulting in a threat that I would get kicked off the boards if I kept up my protest. My, how things have changed.:rolleyes:

ricks

peloton
01-09-2015, 05:42 PM
Man, I can't believe I started this mess with a fraction instead of Faction GoDuke!:cool:

Well, actually... :o I can't let you take the bullet on this one. "Your honor, I plead guilty."

jv001
01-09-2015, 07:17 PM
Then there was the time a number of years ago when I strongly objected to a "needless posting" infraction I got hit with (considering that what I did was nothing compared to what others were doing), resulting in a threat that I would get kicked off the boards if I kept up my protest. My, how things have changed.:rolleyes:

ricks

There's that word again. Watch out. :cool:GoDuke!

Tripping William
01-09-2015, 07:20 PM
Well, actually... :o I can't let you take the bullet on this one. "Your honor, I plead guilty."

So, *you* sunk the Maine?? 😉

jv001
01-09-2015, 10:47 PM
So, *you* sunk the Maine?? ��

Ah, ha. I thought it was Karl Hess.:cool: GoDuke!

devildeac
01-09-2015, 11:19 PM
There's that word again. Watch out. :cool:GoDuke!

It really should be infarction;).

Sorry, I just didn't have the heart to ignore that. :o

ricks68
01-10-2015, 12:48 AM
There's that word again. Watch out. :cool:GoDuke!

Excellent observation!:)

ricks

OldPhiKap
01-10-2015, 08:29 AM
Excellent observation!:)

ricks

True. Did you find satisfraction in discovering it?

devildeac
01-10-2015, 09:07 AM
True. Did you find satisfraction in discovering it?

"I can't get no..."

OldPhiKap
01-10-2015, 09:11 AM
"I can't get no..."

= 0/x?

Although it is a double negative, so maybe = x where x is a positive number?

devildeac
01-10-2015, 09:16 AM
True. Did you find satisfraction in discovering it?


"I can't get no..."


= 0/x?

Although it is a double negative, so maybe = x where x is a positive number?

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rollingstones/icantgetnosatisfaction.html

;)

Shame on you for missing that musical reference:p.

OldPhiKap
01-10-2015, 09:20 AM
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rollingstones/icantgetnosatisfaction.html

;)

Shame on you for missing that musical reference:p.

You mean that Devo did not write it?

http://youtu.be/jadvt7CbH1o


(Keith Richards wrote in his book that he always kept a tape recorder by the bed. One morning he woke up and the tape machine was on but he did not remember recording anything. He played it back -- and it was the Satisfaction riff)

devildeac
01-10-2015, 10:25 AM
You mean that Devo did not write it?

http://youtu.be/jadvt7CbH1o


(Keith Richards wrote in his book that he always kept a tape recorder by the bed. One morning he woke up and the tape machine was on but he did not remember recording anything. He played it back -- and it was the Satisfaction riff)

That Devo clip was awful (but thanks for finding and sharing :rolleyes:). I made it through about 30 seconds of it. Interesting info about how (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction came to market.

OldPhiKap
01-10-2015, 11:39 AM
That Devo clip was awful (but thanks for finding and sharing :rolleyes:). I made it through about 30 seconds of it. Interesting info about how (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction came to market.

Mrs. OPK hated hearing it when I played it. Her comment -- he might get some girl reaction if he just stopped singing.

Also from the book -- what was released was actually the demo, Keith heard it on the radio driving in America and thought -- that song can't be out, we haven't really recorded it yet!

Great book btw, although very frank about sex, drugs, rock, and Mick. Spoiler alert -- he does not like them all equally.

MulletMan
01-10-2015, 12:55 PM
Hey all, let's try to keep threads on topic. If we can't get this back on topic I will move all these posts into the Longest Thread on the OTB.

OldPhiKap
01-10-2015, 01:12 PM
Hey all, let's try to keep threads on topic. If we can't get this back on topic I will move all these posts into the Longest Thread on the OTB.

Sorry, I will yellow flag myself. Not much to do until after the tOSU game, I guess.

Is there any other possible transfer out there?

OldPhiKap
01-13-2015, 12:03 AM
Congratulations, Buckeyes.

Braxton, give us a call,

sagegrouse
01-13-2015, 10:49 AM
SI indicated (http://factoryofsadness.co/2015/01/13/ohio-state-qb-cardale-jones-nfl-draft-future-determined/) that the 22YO is starting to waffle on his future and expressing general interest in the NFL draft. There may be more of a future for Braxton Miller in Columbus than he expected.

I mean, what the heck could Cardale Jones possibly do for an encore at Ohio State?

BD80
01-13-2015, 11:03 AM
SI indicated (http://factoryofsadness.co/2015/01/13/ohio-state-qb-cardale-jones-nfl-draft-future-determined/) that the 22YO is starting to waffle on his future and expressing general interest in the NFL draft. There may be more of a future for Braxton Miller in Columbus than he expected.

I mean, what the heck could Cardale Jones possibly do for an encore at Ohio State?

He's married, has a child, and not great academic enthusiasm. And 2 days to declare.

sagegrouse
01-13-2015, 11:54 AM
He's married, has a child, and not great academic enthusiasm. And 2 days to declare.

I should have put a question mark on the message title.

Really?? Two days to declare. I don't know the NFL rules, except (I think) a player must be 21. What else is involved in declaring for the draft as an underclassman?

Bob Green
01-13-2015, 12:22 PM
I should have put a question mark on the message title.

Really?? Two days to declare. I don't know the NFL rules, except (I think) a player must be 21. What else is involved in declaring for the draft as an underclassman?

I took care of the question mark for you. The deadline for declaring for the NFL Draft is January 15.

CameronBornAndBred
01-13-2015, 02:13 PM
Ohio State quarterback Cardale Jones says he is not ready for the NFL.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/ohio-state-qb-jones-on-nfl-im-not-ready-for-that-level/ar-AA87BbO

Note...he says he's not ready, he doesn't say he's not going.

duke blue brewcrew
01-16-2015, 12:03 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/ohio-state-qb-jones-on-nfl-im-not-ready-for-that-level/ar-AA87BbO

Note...he says he's not ready, he doesn't say he's not going.

Now that we know 12 Guage is returning to OSU, it would seem there should be some news coming soon about what Braxton plans to do. When is the next enrollment period for Duke, 1st session Summer School I assume? Are there any deadlines out there that would cause Braxton to announce his decision within a certain time frame?

CDu
01-16-2015, 12:36 PM
Now that we know 12 Guage is returning to OSU, it would seem there should be some news coming soon about what Braxton plans to do. When is the next enrollment period for Duke, 1st session Summer School I assume? Are there any deadlines out there that would cause Braxton to announce his decision within a certain time frame?

Well, first things first: in order to be able to transfer as a grad transfer, Miller actually has to graduate from OSU. This isn't like a normal transfer where the player could pick up and switch schools mid-year. I would be quite surprised if Miller has already graduated; with the demands of football, it would be very surprising for any player to have completed his degree in under 4 years. In fact, I'd suspect that a lot of these guys take a bit longer than 4 years to finish anyway (assuming they even do finish - schools don't typically have a 100% graduation rate). I would venture that a lot of players end up finishing in 4.5 to 5 years, which works conveniently as a lot of players redshirt a year anyway.

So the first question has to be: will Miller graduate in May? If the answer is "no", then the discussion is basically moot. He wouldn't be able to be a grad transfer until he completes his degree, so if he isn't graduating in May then he won't be available to Duke until the fall semester after summer school is complete. At that point, he would surely be too far behind to become the starter anyway.

If the answer is "yes", then the question would be: is spending the summer learning the playbook and picking up practice in late-summer enough time to win the job? I suspect that is questionable.

Mike Corey
01-16-2015, 12:44 PM
Well, first things first: in order to be able to transfer as a grad transfer, Miller actually has to graduate from OSU. This isn't like a normal transfer where the player could pick up and switch schools mid-year. I would be quite surprised if Miller has already graduated; with the demands of football, it would be very surprising for any player to have completed his degree in under 4 years. In fact, I'd suspect that a lot of these guys take a bit longer than 4 years to finish anyway (assuming they even do finish - schools don't typically have a 100% graduation rate). I would venture that a lot of players end up finishing in 4.5 to 5 years, which works conveniently as a lot of players redshirt a year anyway.

So the first question has to be: will Miller graduate in May? If the answer is "no", then the discussion is basically moot. He wouldn't be able to be a grad transfer until he completes his degree, so if he isn't graduating in May then he won't be available to Duke until the fall semester after summer school is complete. At that point, he would surely be too far behind to become the starter anyway.

If the answer is "yes", then the question would be: is spending the summer learning the playbook and picking up practice in late-summer enough time to win the job? I suspect that is questionable.

Braxton graduated in December.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5kbDUqCMAAeV55.jpg

One of the Vice Provosts tweeted about handing Braxton (https://twitter.com/braxtonmiller5/status/547504144589029376)his diploma. :)

duke blue brewcrew
01-16-2015, 12:55 PM
Well, first things first: in order to be able to transfer as a grad transfer, Miller actually has to graduate from OSU. This isn't like a normal transfer where the player could pick up and switch schools mid-year. I would be quite surprised if Miller has already graduated; with the demands of football, it would be very surprising for any player to have completed his degree in under 4 years. In fact, I'd suspect that a lot of these guys take a bit longer than 4 years to finish anyway (assuming they even do finish - schools don't typically have a 100% graduation rate). I would venture that a lot of players end up finishing in 4.5 to 5 years, which works conveniently as a lot of players redshirt a year anyway.

So the first question has to be: will Miller graduate in May? If the answer is "no", then the discussion is basically moot. He wouldn't be able to be a grad transfer until he completes his degree, so if he isn't graduating in May then he won't be available to Duke until the fall semester after summer school is complete. At that point, he would surely be too far behind to become the starter anyway.

If the answer is "yes", then the question would be: is spending the summer learning the playbook and picking up practice in late-summer enough time to win the job? I suspect that is questionable.

The answer is Yes, he's definitely already graduated. So my question remains, if Braxton were to choose Duke, how quickly could he officially enroll at the university? I believe I read that he's still recovering from his injury and wouldn't be able to participate in spring practice anyway. Has anyone else read/heard this?

Mike Corey
01-16-2015, 12:59 PM
That's correct--no spring practice for Mr. Miller.

CDu
01-16-2015, 01:55 PM
Braxton graduated in December.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5kbDUqCMAAeV55.jpg

One of the Vice Provosts tweeted about handing Braxton (https://twitter.com/braxtonmiller5/status/547504144589029376)his diploma. :)


The answer is Yes, he's definitely already graduated. So my question remains, if Braxton were to choose Duke, how quickly could he officially enroll at the university? I believe I read that he's still recovering from his injury and wouldn't be able to participate in spring practice anyway. Has anyone else read/heard this?

Well, that clears that up. :)

Good for him for getting his degree in under 4 years!

As for the next question, Miller has missed the deadline to enroll for the Spring semester. The Fall semester deadline for application is January 31. There are only two graduate programs that offer summer classes, and the deadline would be the same January 31 deadline.

I'm not sure whether or not he'd be allowed to start participating sooner, but since he's injured he may not be available to practice until later anyway. But that doesn't mean he couldn't learn the plays/terminology and meet with the team/staff prior to enrolling and during recovery.

mr. synellinden
01-16-2015, 03:12 PM
More food for thought (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2331243-cardale-jones-return-to-ohio-state-means-braxton-miller-must-transfer). No mention of Duke here.

CDu
01-16-2015, 04:01 PM
More food for thought (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2331243-cardale-jones-return-to-ohio-state-means-braxton-miller-must-transfer). No mention of Duke here.

To be fair, that's an Ohio State bleacher report guy speculating on what Miller should do. It is very possible that he is overlooking Duke simply because Ohio State fans (and fans of many of the other historically great football schools) probably all overlook schools like Duke when big-name programs are on the table. He may not have any idea how well-respected a QB coach David Cutcliffe is, and Duke's steady rise to football relevance has probably flown under his radar. So I don't think the lack of Duke in this article means all that much.

That said, I would still be surprised if Miller came to Duke. The mere mention of those names (and the fact that he would likely immediately start there) is reason for pause. If he did come to Duke, it would have to be for the Cutcliffe experience, because the other schools have much more to offer in terms of championship opportunity and pro pedigree in general. So while it is always possible, I'd agree that it seems highly unlikely he comes here.

I mean, we still haven't heard anything but bleacher report speculation that Miller is interested in leaving. So there's still a very real chance that he's the starting QB next year at Ohio State.

rifraf
01-16-2015, 04:12 PM
I don't think there is any way Jones won't start the first game(s) for Ohio State next year. Could you imagine the backlash on the coach if OSU loses a game where the starter was not the undefeated hero who won 3 trophy games? If he loses one, or plays horribly, then I can see another QB getting a shot but I find it very very difficult to imagine a scenario where Jones doesn't take the first snap of the first game next year.

CameronBornAndBred
01-16-2015, 05:28 PM
Two more "Where could Miller go" articles. One with 5 options, one with 10, neither with Duke.
http://fansided.com/2015/01/13/10-schools-braxton-miller-transfer/
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/five-teams-that-could-use-qbs-braxton-miller-or-everett-golson-202215598.html/

CDu
01-16-2015, 07:29 PM
Two more "Where could Miller go" articles. One with 5 options, one with 10, neither with Duke.
http://fansided.com/2015/01/13/10-schools-braxton-miller-transfer/
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/five-teams-that-could-use-qbs-braxton-miller-or-everett-golson-202215598.html/

To be clear, those articles are speculating more about possible fit than where he might actuallly go.

DangerDevil
01-20-2015, 08:41 PM
I don't think it precludes a transfer but apparently Miller has enrolled in spring classes at Ohio State. The article also says that he has shown interest in a potential FSU transfer, no mention of Duke.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/eye-on-college-football/24980692/report-braxton-miller-enrolled-at-ohio-st-for-spring-semester

duke blue brewcrew
01-21-2015, 11:43 AM
I don't think it precludes a transfer but apparently Miller has enrolled in spring classes at Ohio State. The article also says that he has shown interest in a potential FSU transfer, no mention of Duke.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/eye-on-college-football/24980692/report-braxton-miller-enrolled-at-ohio-st-for-spring-semester

As much as I would love to see more national recognition for Coach Cut that a Braxton Miller transfer would certainly bring, I'm fine with him not coming at this point. I'm excited to see what Thomas Sirk can do and to see how hard Boehme and Pierre can push him to challenge for the starting role. I trust what Coach Cut and his team are doing in recruiting. The talent is getting better and better every year, and we are seeing the results on the field. Let's Go Duke!

MulletMan
07-24-2015, 03:13 PM
Well, I suppose that I am supposed to chime in now. I think it is very likely that Miller is transferring and have thought so since around early November/the Michigan State game. Barrett's ability to throw, work through his progressions and make quick decisions was better, at that point, that Miller's. And Barrett is a red shirt fresh who hadn't played in 18 months due to a knee injury. Miller just isn't as good as Barrett in the passing game. It seems likely to me, that the OSU coaching staff, and specifically Meyer has been honest with Miller and told him that the job isn't automatically his next year. Plus, can you imagine if Jones plays remotely well in the playoff? Then you've got a three way battle going into the spring, and one guy who is staring down the barell of his last season. A transfer is probably in the works.

I think Adam's posting is probably true...Miller probably has reached out to or expressed interest in duke, but more specifically in Cutty, as he wants to play QB in the NFL. However, much like his predecessor, Pryor, the knock has been his throwing ability. Wouldn't it make sense to work under Cutty for spring ball and the following season to try to upgrade the draft stock? Miller could end up looking like a Teddy Bridgewater or a more mature Johnny Manziel. That wouldn't be so bad. Also, Miller probably figures that he could still go the Dennard Robinson route and end up as a back in the NFL given his absurd running ability and elusiveness. I was at the OSU-Penn State game a few years ago and saw this in person (go to about the 2:09 mark) (http://http://youtu.be/q3dMoIN_tYM) And I still am not sure it actually happened. So I think Miller to Duke could make sense.

That said, I think Duke is probably a long shot. Miller isn't going to Michigan. He isn't going to do Meyer like that and he isn't Justin Boren who was pissed when Carr was forced out at Michigan, had been an OSU recruit and whose brother, Zach, was committed to OSU. What makes more sense to me is either Oregon for a year, or Texas. Texas is in a heap of trouble at QB and would probably guarantee Miller the starting job. Oregon would just plug him in and run their offense without missing a beat. So, what does Duke do? Add some read option and teach the kid to throw? Maybe. I sure hope so, but until Cutty is telling me that it is happening, I will still think it's a long shot.

And in all fairness, I love Braxton Miller. That kid was thrown into a poop storm after Tresell/Pryor/tattoo-gate and did nothing but put his behind on the line for OSU. He has been injured several times, but most have been related to big time hits that go along with running the read option in a fast paced college system, and, for better or worse, the kid doesn't shy away from contact.

So there's my two cents...for what it's worth. I hope to hell that he does end up at Duke next year. I think his dynamic nature and leadership abilities would make Duke a favorite in the Coastal and give us a chance to win the ACC.

I mean... I don't get to say I'm right a whole lot, but shoot... I think someone should have gone to Vegas around January 1st.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121039/position-switch-was-always-best-bet-for-braxton-miller

CDu
07-24-2015, 09:06 PM
I mean... I don't get to say I'm right a whole lot, but shoot... I think someone should have gone to Vegas around January 1st.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121039/position-switch-was-always-best-bet-for-braxton-miller

To be fair, you did say right at the top that you thought he was transferring... 😜

sagegrouse
07-24-2015, 09:56 PM
I mean... I don't get to say I'm right a whole lot, but shoot... I think someone should have gone to Vegas around January 1st.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121039/position-switch-was-always-best-bet-for-braxton-miller

In my best Bill Clinton gravelly voice: "Wow! Here's ol' Mulletman! Where you been, boy? I missed you the last two years."

Olympic Fan
07-24-2015, 11:09 PM
Amazing to me that this thread has so many posts about possible QB transfers (when Cut was NEVER interested in a short-term QB transfer like Driskel or Miller).

But was there ever any mention about the one transfer we DID get -- Tennessee TE Daniel Helm ... Jeremy Cash recently said Helm is "by far" the best TE on campus.

I apologize if it was mentioned (I'm not prepared to go back and re-read this entire thread).