MBB: Duke 80, Wisconsin 70 Post-Game Thread

[devil84]

What a game! Post your comments here.

[Duvall]

Tyus Jones, huh?

[weezie]

Quite a night. All cylinders firing. K was superb.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Tyus Jones, he's a 5th year senior right? He acted like it.

[NYBri]

"Devils by 8. No worries."

Okay. I was off by 2.

I love this team! So many weapons.

[Duvall]

30-46! (https://mobile.twitter.com/Duke_MBB/status/540365947958484992?p=v)

[rocketeli]

shot 65% We should use that ball more often.

[NSDukeFan]

What a game! Post your comments here.

Wow! Wow! That is awesome! This team is awesome to go into one of the toughest venues against an experienced, talented team that just went to the Final Four? Wow!

[mattman91]

Would love to hear Badger's thoughts on this game.

[millerecu]

Can everyone PLEASE stop complaining about Sheed now? Every big game he steps up!

[UrinalCake]

What a game for Tyus. Manages the offense, creates for his teammates, and scores when the opportunity is there. Picks his spots so well. Despite a (relatively) quiet game from Okafor, our guards kept us in control pretty much the whole game. Rasheed showed us the player we know he can be, hitting so many big buckets. Marshall and Matt Jones gave us great minutes off the bench. Justice had a pretty rough game and was hit with some bad calls but he did play great defense. And Quinn had a great game too. Overall an awesome team effort.

Late in the game, our small, stall ball lineup is pretty devastating. Amile is more than capable of guarding the 5, and we can put four guards out there who can all handle and hit free throws.

[NSDukeFan]

30-46! (https://mobile.twitter.com/Duke_MBB/status/540365947958484992?p=v)

I hope they don't start realizing that you are not supposed to be able to do that.

[Dukehky]

Honestly, our defense shut down the rest of UW's players and made Frank and TJ beat us. We could have beaten this team by more than 10 if Justise had even an average game offensively, even though I thought he played well on defense. I think in college basketball now, experience/crowds/etc are overrated. Talent wins these games and we were more talented them at every spot on the court and K coached circles around Bo tonight. Seriously, K throttled that Wiscy team.

When Tyus made that and 1 play early in the 2nd half I thought to myself, that guy is Bobby Hurley. Frank is really good and made Jah work, and most teams aren't going to have that kind of weapon to slow our best player down. Great win, fun game to watch

[Mal]

We are blessed. I LOVE the combo of youthful talent/athleticism with the upperclassmen's experienced clutchness and understanding of roles and winning.

Tyus Jones. Wow. Precocious barely scrapes the surface. When he hit that second 3 in a row from the exact same spot after they sagged off of him, you knew this was his game.

[Duvall]

UNC loses, Duke wins - how could this night get any better?

*Seth Greenberg's microphone stops working*

[Bluegrassdevil1]

Last non-conference victory of this level was... Duhon and company in East Lansing?

I have no idea.

Youth against Final Four experience.

On the road.

Controlled HUGE chunks of the game.

Okafor and Winslow had up and down games.

Wisconsin's best players played fairly well.

WHAT JUST HAPPENED?????

On Selection Sunday, no other team will have a better non-conference victory.

WHAT JUST HAPPENED?????

[Duke95]

Absolutely superbly coached and executed game by our troops tonight. Rasheed stepped up tremendously. He hit big shot after big shot.
I'm amazed that our young freshmen did not seem the least bit affected by the tough atmosphere at Kohl.

What a game.

[ChrisP]

Anyone still up should really check out ESPN's homepage right now - funny Plum3 face!

[Badger]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it

[Marc81]

Can everyone PLEASE stop complaining about Sheed now? Every big game he steps up!

Everyone stepped up tonight. Not Winslow's best game but he came up big at the end! Rasheed played awesome! I love how the team seemed to come together on the defensive end towards the end! Guys, this is a TEAM!

[Dev11]

I don't think we could have played better as a team tonight.

Love the big dunks, love the shifty drives, love the defense, and most importantly, love the team floor slap. Own it.

[dukelifer]

Heck of a game. Sheed came to play as he usually does in big games. T Jones was superb- just a great performance. Did not get flustered and made many great decisions.. Winslow will not have many games like tonight but he was big when it mattered. The dunk from the out of bounds play was a thing of beauty. Duke had great balance in where they scored on the floor. So different than last year. Excellent win.

[UrinalCake]

Really interesting defensive strategy to switch constantly on screens. Wisconsin constantly had mismatches but either didn't see it or couldn't capitalize. Our help defense was really, really good. It's like we'd do just enough to disrupt their shots without necessarily blocking them, and our rebounding was solid.

[Duvall]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it

Thanks for coming by. Kaminsky and Jackson are kind of terrifying.

[Native]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it

You. I like you. Stick around, yeah?

[weezie]

UNC loses, Duke wins - how could this night get any better?

*Seth Greenberg's microphone stops working*

Yowsa and ic is walking the plank over there...

[BulldogDancer81]

I love when I hit the college basketball trifecta in one night. Duke wins. Butler wins. UNC loses. Great night for me. :-)

I will admit this is the first game I've gotten to watch this season but man are they a fun team! I think I'm really going to enjoy watching these freshmen continue to develop and grow as the season progresses. Tyus is particular was great tonight.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

shot 65% We should use that ball more often.

65.2% don't sell it short

Great defensive scheming by K tonight. We wore our big boy pants today.

For a game that was supposed to be all about Jahlil v. Frank, seems our guards decided they wanted some press too.

Fantastic game start to finish. Our freshmen look nothing like freshmen. Lots of reason for optimism after a game like that. I like the way the next month of our schedule looks. Hope to exact some revenge on the Huskies and then start prepping for conference play.

Go Duke!

[NYBri]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it

Thanks for that, Badger. Don't be a stranger.

[bbosbbos]

One word to this game: wonderful :D

[OldPhiKap]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it

Your pre-game post was fantastic, you are obviously a student of the game. Hope you keep posting as the threads interest you. Really impressed with Whisky; a lot to like with your team. Best of luck, see y'all in the FF I hope. You have a great team and a great coach -- a lot to like there.

[Rudy]

Great defensive game plan from the coach, solid offense with great shooting (over 50%from 3), tough scrambling swarming defense, all players contributing. Can't ask for better than that against a very good team on their home court. Very impressive.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it

Cheers to you, sir. Your team is going to win an awful lot of games this year.

Hope we meet again.

[Selover]

unc loses, duke wins - how could this night get any better?

*seth greenberg's microphone stops working*

yessssssss!

[mgtr]

Ok, the game ball goes to Tyus, but welcome back Rasheed, welcome back. Everyone made a contribution -- Plumlee is so much better than last year, Jefferson obviously worked hard over the summer, he is so much better. Not a great night for Okafor (but not shabby, either) or Winslow. Cook was cooking, and overall defense was very good.
Wisconsin is clearly very good, but our switching and constant movement kept them uncomfortable. Overall, liked the game, loved the result.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ok, the game ball goes to Tyus, but welcome back Rasheed, welcome back. Everyone made a contribution -- Plumlee is so much better than last year, Jefferson obviously worked hard over the summer, he is so much better. Not a great night for Okafor (but not shabby, either) or Winslow. Cook was cooking, and overall defense was very good.
Wisconsin is clearly very good, but our switching and constant movement kept them uncomfortable. Overall, liked the game, loved the result.

Second this. Team effort, but I thought Tyus, Cook, and Rasheed really stood out. Loved the tenacity and the ability to hit shots. Tyus continues to surprise me.

[NYBri]

Oh, and The Cheaters shot 28% tonight. Dean Dome should be renamed. The Brick Yard.

[OldPhiKap]

UNC loses, Duke wins - how could this night get any better?

*Seth Greenberg's microphone stops working*

I'll fight the guy who disagrees with any of this. Throw in UVa over Md and it is a perfect night!

[NYBri]

I'll fight the guy who disagrees with any of this. Throw in UVa over Md and it is a perfect night!

Boom!

[Mal]

As much as it pains me deeply as a MN ex-pat, Melvin Gordon is pretty awesome. Humble, caring, sounds like an amazing teammate. And I believe he just gave a Kyrie shoutout at the end there.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'll fight the guy who disagrees with any of this. Throw in UVa over Md and it is a perfect night!

Sorry, OPK. You're gonna fight me. I like Seth Greenberg. But agree 100% with the other two points!

[OldPhiKap]

As much as it pains me deeply as a MN ex-pat, Melvin Gordon is pretty awesome. Humble, caring, sounds like an amazing teammate. And I believe he just gave a Kyrie shoutout at the end there.

Yup. Playas prop playas.

[westwall]

Aside from T Jones, I was most encouraged by Amile's ability, and willingness, to hit the 12-14 foot shot. That opens up a lot of possibilities for the future.

[OldPhiKap]

Sorry, OPK. You're gonna fight me. I like Seth Greenberg. But agree 100% with the other two points!

I'm on the bubble about Seth. Which, of course, is his natural habitat!

(Actually agree with you, but it was damn ironic)

[moonpie23]

Tyus on post game right now...

[6th Man]

This is one of my favorite teams of all time. Such a complete team and a resilient bunch! T. Jones is a gamer. I'm proud of Sheed for hanging in there and being a man. He didn't start, but he finished and made a huge shot when it looked like the tide was changing. I was impressed that Duke stuck to the gameplan when Wisconsin hit a few tough 3's in a row. Okafor will be an All-Star in the NBA for many years. His footwork and speed makes me think of Hakeem the Dream. This group has all the right pieces!

I have a lot of respect for Wisconsin. They play beautiful basketball and it is quite an honor to come away from their gym with the W! Bring on Kentucky!

[millerecu]

I almost feel sorry for Wisc. Seeing as they play Wojo'sbteam on Saturday!

[wavedukefan70s]

I was really worried how our youth would react to a tough atmosphere and a lot of length to shoot over.
Excellent effort by the team against a tough badgers squad.im very pleased .

[mgtr]

I don't know about that -- I think I feel more sorry for Wojo's team, as Wisco will be coming out with all guns blazing. I plan to watch that game.

[OldPhiKap]

Tyus gave a very poised interview, great job.

Personally hurts me that he was born 10 years after Bilas' great '86 senior year.

[CDu]

What a thoroughly enjoyable, high-quality game between two skilled teams. We definitely had the edge in skill players, though Wisconsin's two most skilled players definitely came to play. The rest of the Badgers are either a bit too methodical or athletic but too raw. We seemed to have a skill edge and athleticism edge at most spots, and definitely off the bench.

Tough night for our bigs, as Plumlee got worked by the Tank and Okafor got the lesser end of the matchup too. Jefferson was pretty quiet (except for some nice jumpers!) for much of the night, but he made a few big plays late once he moved to C to fill in for Okafor in foul trouble.

Tyus Jones showed why he was the top PG recruit. He should be on the short list of best PG in the country. The kid is that good. So composed, so skilled, so smart. Now if only he could defend... But just an awesome game by him. I am a big fan.

Cook and Sulaimon were both fantastic tertiary options. When they are both on, we will be really hard to beat. I felt really good for Sulaimon because he has had his growing pains, but tonight was a nearly perfect game from him on offense. He made almost no bad decisions andcwas generally under control off the dribble.

It says domething that we won by 10 without a dominant game by Okafor and with a really rough game by Winslow. We are just SO deep. Not many teams (maybe just one) can match up with our depth of skill.

Inwas surprised to see us switching on all ball screens. It was a classic Duke strategy, but it seemed risky to me. But it appeared to confuse Wisconsin as they really weren't able to get the right iso mismatches. Kudos to our help defense for being there in the rare times when Wisconsin did get the mismatch edge.

To be fair, a big part of the win was us shooting out of our minds. If we shoot a realistic percentage, this game is a dogfight. But if you are going to have an out of body experience, might as well be against an opponent this good.

That was the most fun I have had watching in a while!

[g-money]

I finally got to watch us play a full game tonight (I know, lame) and man, our freshmen are impressive. Their unselfishness is infectious, and their poise is precocious.

The Okafor/Duncan comparisons are spot on. Love the way Big Jah uses the glass!

A great win in a tough environment bodes well for the season ahead. Go Duke.

[77devil]

Yowsa and ic is walking the plank over there...

And Wheat is MIA. Shocking!

[Duvall]

And Wheat is MIA. Shocking!

Eh, the game ended less than an hour ago, and it's late.

[FerryFor50]

Eh, the game ended less than an hour ago, and it's late.

And Duke has a post game. : p

[Troublemaker]

Bo Ryan postgame presser here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYdOy7sb5U

If anyone can find Coach K's, please post. Thanks! Hopefully it ends up on GoDuke eventually

[Troublemaker]

And Wheat is MIA. Shocking!

We didn't feed Okafor a million times. And we didn't hit 50 threes. Yet, somehow still walked away with a double-digit road win against the #2 team. Wheat's head exploded, I think.

[elvis14]

What a fantastic game. I'm so happy! Our defense tonight was repeatedly outstanding. Everyone that played did something good. Some (Tyus) more than others but a true team effort. That's a really good Wisconsin team we just beat on their home floor and they don't lose too many there.

Now...how the heck am I supposed to get to sleep?

[Clay Feet POF]

Hey guys, great game! You hit some tough shots throughout the game. Shooting over 50 (60!) percent is no joke. Hope you guys have a great season, hopefully we see you in the tourney. On Wisconsin!


P.s. if you're in Madison ignore the idiots, you earned it



Hey Badger, Wisconsin is very lucky to have you as a fan representing your school. Respect and good sportsmanship are always a reflection of the person or the team.

Please come again there are a lot of nice people on this Board. Thanks again for your comments

[pamtar]

I was impressed that Duke stuck to the gameplan when Wisconsin hit a few tough 3's in a row.

Good point. Could have just as easily gone back to show/help D after those first three 3s went in. We gave up a few more 3s getting stuck mid-screen but overall it was great game plan. Almost looked like a zone at times. Gasp.

[Troublemaker]

Inwas surprised to see us switching on all ball screens. It was a classic Duke strategy, but it seemed risky to me. But it appeared to confuse Wisconsin as they really weren't able to get the right iso mismatches. Kudos to our help defense for being there in the rare times when Wisconsin did get the mismatch edge.

Yeah, the defensive points per possession numbers probably are not going to look great once finally calculated (I'm waiting patiently for KenPom), but there was a psychological component to all that switching that the stats will miss. I think it was frustrating for Wisconsin to not be able to score every time they had a 7-footer being guarded by a small guard or a Duke big man defending the perimeter against a Badger guard. This frustration probably infused Duke with confidence, and confidence is important for a bunch of frosh on the road against a very good opponent.

[Troublemaker]

Coach K postgame presser:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImQMpsjtBaQ

[Ultrarunner]

This is one of my favorite teams of all time. Such a complete team and a resilient bunch! T. Jones is a gamer. I'm proud of Sheed for hanging in there and being a man. He didn't start, but he finished and made a huge shot when it looked like the tide was changing. I was impressed that Duke stuck to the gameplan when Wisconsin hit a few tough 3's in a row. Okafor will be an All-Star in the NBA for many years. His footwork and speed makes me think of Hakeem the Dream. This group has all the right pieces!

I have a lot of respect for Wisconsin. They play beautiful basketball and it is quite an honor to come away from their gym with the W! Bring on Kentucky!

It wasn't the shot he hit when he came in with Amile - it was the defense. The shot Sheed hit was big but the look Amile and Sheed exchanged right before they entered the game in the second half before that shot laid it bare; they were going in and shutting the Badgers down. An active defense went into swarm mode, something that I haven't seen for a while at Duke. We're 8 games in. Imagine 20 games from now when they all react instinctively to each other.

[uh_no]

Yeah, the defensive points per possession numbers probably are not going to look great once finally calculated (I'm waiting patiently for KenPom), but there was a psychological component to all that switching that the stats will miss. I think it was frustrating for Wisconsin to not be able to score every time they had a 7-footer being guarded by a small guard or a Duke big man defending the perimeter against a Badger guard. This frustration probably infused Duke with confidence, and confidence is important for a bunch of frosh on the road against a very good opponent.

115.9

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-wisconsin-basketball-live-stats-12032014

wisconsin is the second best offense in the country....so hard to be surprised...plus it was on the road and okafor had to sit with foul trouble

not too worried about the total, as it wasn't like they picked us apart all game...

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, the defensive points per possession numbers probably are not going to look great once finally calculated (I'm waiting patiently for KenPom)

Kenpom's numbers came in. So, as expected, Duke gave up 1.13 ppp and has currently slipped to #18 in his D-rankings.

I don't much care about all that right now, though.

Giddy over this win!

[richardjackson199]

My MOTM was Rasheed. He really brought an amazing, intangible toughness into an extremely hostile crowd which was one play away from exploding into a frenzy. Sulaimon silenced them all with dagger answers to them trying to seize momentum. I felt like our team fed off his leadership, strength and toughness from there. I wouldn't mind seeing Rasheed take any end of game clutch free throws we need. Dude is clutch, and he brings it when it counts. Assassin.

Tyus Jones - wow. Don't worry about his defense - he will be a great defender for us. Jackson is an NBA first rounder who will make lots of people trying to guard him look bad. But if Tyus got burned on a play, oh did he answer. He is so smart and so clutch. Duke has had 1 point guard better than this guy, and he plays with Lebron.

Speaking of Lebron, Winslow has a little of that strength, finish through contact, do everything, plays all 5 positions well kinda badassitude. Once Nate helps teach him how to unleash the beast - watch out. He didn't have the best game tonight, but his ceiling is higher than he can jump.

Best part of the game - it's debateable, but I'll go with Quinn Cook face after that sick assist jam to Jah. The Quinn jumper 3 off that assist from Tyus was up there.

Okafor was Okafor. How great is it to see a rebounding, rim-protecting, shot-altering, stud with mad post skillz, Tim Duncanesque soft touch in a Duke uniform. Kaminsky is an experienced NBA stud and Jah showed him why he will go #1. How about those bank shots (not the free throws), lightning spin moves, or that face up jumper in his face. I love that he doesn't try to drift and shoot 3's. And he will only get better.

Jefferson was the ultimate role guy. Okafour fouls, no problem. He was rebounding, defending, hustling, draining open jumpers, and unsung but fits in so well on this team.

Jones brought toughness and swag.

MP3 has improved beyond what I thought was possible when I saw him as a freshman. He does not hurt us when he comes in. He runs well, plays big, defends well, rebounds, and scratch what I said earlier about Sheed shooting free throws, MP3 is this year's secret weapon at the stripe.

Our bench not only was the difference, but the guys on our bench who never played a minute were engaged and cheering. They brought energy, which this team will need to do do outside of Cameron to achieve its goals.

Everybody was watching tonight - and Duke is scary. I love this team and I'll do my best to watch every minute of this season. Win or lose - relish and enjoy watching them them play while the moment is here.

[Billy Dat]

It wasn't the shot he hit when he came in with Amile - it was the defense. The shot Sheed hit was big but the look Amile and Sheed exchanged right before they entered the game in the second half before that shot laid it bare; they were going in and shutting the Badgers down. An active defense went into swarm mode, something that I haven't seen for a while at Duke. We're 8 games in. Imagine 20 games from now when they all react instinctively to each other.

Great call, I noticed that look and the little dap they exchanged. There were 5 minutes left, Wisconsin had just cut the lead to 3, and Jah went to the bench with 4 fouls. Then this happened:
-Sheed hits that ballsy jumper to quiet the crowd and give us a chance to catch our breath
-We make a stop
-Sheed misses, but not a bad shot
-Sheed steals from the Tank and Tyus jets for the lay-up
-The Tank misses in close
-Amile hits one, we go back up 9

Those 2 minutes and 30 seconds were the crucial ones of the game, we got stops and hit big shots. When is the last time we made that kind of statement on both ends in the crucial moments of a game?

This kind of feels like our biggest win since the last title. That may be a stretch, but it was that kind of game.

Yes, we hit some crazy shots, and our percentage was nuts. But, aside from our D, I most loved the fact that we always kept our cool, had a great demeanor, and weren't scared. We played like the Senior laden team.

Everyone contributed, but Tyus was the star of stars with Rasheed the runner up.

Great, great, great win.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Great call, I noticed that look and the little dap they exchanged. There were 5 minutes left, Wisconsin had just cut the lead to 3, and Jah went to the bench with 4 fouls. Then this happened:
-Sheed hits that ballsy jumper to quiet the crowd and give us a chance to catch our breath
-We make a stop
-Sheed misses, but not a bad shot
-Sheed steals from the Tank and Tyus jets for the lay-up
-The Tank misses in close
-Amile hits one, we go back up 9

Those 2 minutes and 30 seconds were the crucial ones of the game, we got stops and hit big shots. When is the last time we made that kind of statement on both ends in the crucial moments of a game?

This kind of feels like our biggest win since the last title. That may be a stretch, but it was that kind of game.

Yes, we hit some crazy shots, and our percentage was nuts. But, aside from our D, I most loved the fact that we always kept our cool, had a great demeanor, and weren't scared. We played like the Senior laden team.

Everyone contributed, but Tyus was the star of stars with Rasheed the runner up.

Great, great, great win.

Can't spork you, but I wanted to. Do not disagree with anything here. Loved that breakdown of those few minutes. And loved the ballsy floorslap by Sulaimon. Sulaimon - I hope you're back, cus we definitely need you for a title run.

[Clay Feet POF]

Coach K postgame presser:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImQMpsjtBaQ


Thanks for this

[AncientPsychicT]

Not only is Duke undefeated, they have won every single game by at least 10 points.

Bring on Elon! Go Duke!

[Billy Dat]

Cook and Sulaimon were both fantastic tertiary options. When they are both on, we will be really hard to beat. I felt really good for Sulaimon because he has had his growing pains, but tonight was a nearly perfect game from him on offense. He made almost no bad decisions andcwas generally under control off the dribble.


My MOTM was Rasheed. He really brought an amazing, intangible toughness into an extremely hostile crowd which was one play away from exploding into a frenzy. Sulaimon silenced them all with dagger answers to them trying to seize momentum. I felt like our team fed off his leadership, strength and toughness from there. I wouldn't mind seeing Rasheed take any end of game clutch free throws we need. Dude is clutch, and he brings it when it counts. Assassin.


Loved the ballsy floorslap by Sulaimon. Sulaimon - I hope you're back, cus we definitely need you for a title run.

I wanted to highlight the theme of the developing upperclassman, something that doesn't happen anymore with the elite guys because they are gone so soon.

Quinn has been great, and K went out of his way in the post-game to attribute a lot of Tyus' success to Quinn's presence beside him on the court (thanks for linking that video Troublemaker).

As you guys said above, this was a nearly perfect Rasheed game in that his shot selection was fantastic. It's easy to say that when they go in, but none of those shots were ones where you yell "No!" at the TV and then shrug when they go in.

As CDu said, if Cook and Sulaimon play like that, we are tough.

An interesting nugget from the presser was K saying that down the stretch, they went with Tyus as a primary offensive option on Capel's urging. "He's a winner coach, he'll take us home!" or something like that. I love the Hurley comparison up-thread, he obviously doesn't have the body of work, and he's a lot less emotional, but he's that fearless pint sized killer from outside and on the drive. That little step back long two (foot on line) he hit with 2 left was another big shot.

Meanwhile, quick side shout out to Traevon Jackson. That dude killed us.

[ACCBBallFan]

....
Inwas surprised to see us switching on all ball screens. It was a classic Duke strategy, but it seemed risky to me. But it appeared to confuse Wisconsin as they really weren't able to get the right iso mismatches. Kudos to our help defense for being there in the rare times when Wisconsin did get the mismatch edge.

To be fair, a big part of the win was us shooting out of our minds. If we shoot a realistic percentage, this game is a dogfight. But if you are going to have an out of body experience, might as well be against an opponent this good.

That was the most fun I have had watching in a while!You made a lot of great observations but I wanted to concentrate on these.

I agree the toughness the Duke guards had to have on defensive switches to guard guys so much taller and stronger also translated on the offensive end.

If you look at the box score most of the metrics were essentially even, assists, turnovers, rebounds, steals, blocks, fouls, all but the one that counts the most, points.

Wisc had more shots in all three categories just Duke took better advantage of its chances due to a combination of Offensve and Defense.

Kaminsky and Okafor basicaly offset one another in different ways, including forcing the opposition to always have to be aware of where they are.

Tyus and Jackson both scored a bundle of points which means they each gave up a bundle too.

Duke had Quinn and Sheed also score in double figures and Wisconsin did not get that kind of production from its other players.

Amile, Matt and Jusice all made great contributons of the defensive end.

[ACCBBallFan]

Yeah, the defensive points per possession numbers probably are not going to look great once finally calculated (I'm waiting patiently for KenPom), but there was a psychological component to all that switching that the stats will miss. I think it was frustrating for Wisconsin to not be able to score every time they had a 7-footer being guarded by a small guard or a Duke big man defending the perimeter against a Badger guard. This frustration probably infused Duke with confidence, and confidence is important for a bunch of frosh on the road against a very good opponent.
Right you are, the reward for such a great defensive game plan and execution was a drop from #14 Defense to #18.

Of course Duke remains #2 overall and the #1 Offense. So after UK (#2 Defense) are the 3 ACC teams Duke, Lville (#1 Def) and UVA (#3 Def) with Wisc still #2 Offense and UK #3 Offense

[Henderson]

Meanwhile over in the Hill, a miasma of blame and self-loathing has settled over the land.

Here are Marcus Paige and Kennedy Meeks: http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1488252

And you know things aren't going well for Roy when he says "dadgum" three times and refers to himself in the third person twice in an 8 minute interview. http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1488243

Not only are they all depressed, but there's a bit of finger-pointing too. The reality that they may not have much of a team seems to be unpleasantly descending upon them

Yes, I'd call this a pretty fair evening of basketball.

[brevity]

Maybe Duke should play true road games more often.

And... Justise Winslow is "James Harden with defense"? What does that mean? It's like saying a coach is "Bob Knight, only easygoing" or an announcer is "a coherent Dick Vitale."


Hey Badger, Wisconsin is very lucky to have you as a fan representing your school. Respect and good sportsmanship are always a reflection of the person or the team.

Please come again there are a lot of nice people on this Board. Thanks again for your comments

Seconded. We at DBR will probably be talking about Wisconsin when they play Marquette, Northwestern, and I guess Maryland. We'll definitely be talking about Wisconsin in our NCAA seed discussion and during the NCAA Tournament.

[AncientPsychicT]

So, what do people think of the black unis now? Are they still the worst thing since unsliced bread? ;)

[Edouble]

Thoughts on the game:

The Crowd at Kohl was pretty disappointing. They never really seemed to get going.

I was in the minority of folks around here that were bullish on Duke winning this game. I think I wrote in the other thread that we would win because we were quicker and more talented. I think that was the story of the game. While we shot a high percentage, I thought we did so because we were taking good shots. Bo Ryan said in his post game that he thought they did a good job on defense based on having charted all of our shots for the year. I didn't think that we took many shots farther out than usual, particularly the layups and dunks.

I knew we were winning this game after the first five minutes when two things happened:
1) They were 4-8 from three but had no 2 point FGs, despite their size advantage.
2) It looked like our defenders were doubling and recovering faster than Wisconsin could reverse or swing the ball.
When you take that many threes, particularly Kaminsky, you take players out of rebounding position. You also don't send guys to the line. I felt that Wisconsin, despite shooting 50% from 3 early, was really settling, and was not used to a defense with as many quick players as we have this year.

Rasheed was amazing. The look on his face said it all. It was a look of ferocity and fire. It was as if the Wisconsin team had done something to personally offend him. I think something must have clicked for him tonight.

Likewise, Justise took a step back. He seems to be hitting the freshman wall early, or maybe it's handling everything at the end of a semester that is overloading him somehow. I hope he regains his stride.

The defense was incredible. Leave it to Coach K, in a year when we have a fairly "traditional" 1 through 5 out on the court, to come up with an incredibly innovative and unorthodox defense for this huge matchup. Amazing!

It will take a really, really strong effort to give this year's Blue Devils a loss, with the variety of guys (6-7) that could go off for 20 in a given night, and the impact that all of our guys can have on a game while only scoring in single digits.

This was a statement game if ever there was one. If we stay healthy, I think we hit the tournament with a maximum of 2 losses and we win the damn thing.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

So, what do people think of the black unis now? Are they still the worst thing since unsliced bread? ;)

I still prefer the blue road uniforms. Duke has won many more games wearing blue than black (as if that matters).

[ice-9]

What a game. Yes, we shot 65% but I didn't think we were particularly lucky today. We earned that 65% with great shots and nice drives into the paint.

I don't care what KenPom thinks, the defensive switching + help strategy was masterful. We didn't quite execute the first few plays, which led to Kaminsky open 3s, but it was outstanding the rest of the way (short of a couple instances where we fouled a bit too easily). Wisconsin doesn't cut much and we leveraged that by doubling or tripling the post, and quickly reverting back to man when the ball is passed it out. We collapsed and reverted so quickly Wisconsin wasn't able to take advantage. We didn't double all the time, just often enough to frustrate.

That's if the post even received the ball. We put so much perimeter pressure, it was difficult for Wisconsin to initiate the offense; in one key stretch, we pressured and got turnovers.

Wisconsin is an ELITE offensive team: it has so many shooters and scorers, excellent passing and trust from years of playing together. That we were able to contain that offense is impressive.

The other thing I was deeply impressed by is the calm and collected demeanor of this Duke team. I saw it already in the Michigan State game, but it was even plainer here. They didn't look rattled. They never looked out of control. They played hard, but didn't play frantic. They took mostly good shots.

Amazingly, this looks like a veteran team. I credit a lot of it to the freshmen -- there's something so cool and confident about Tyus, Justice and Jahlil. It seems to have rubbed off on Quinn, and his face-palm mistakes of previous years are a distant memory. Rasheed and even Plumlee finally look it too, this game for Rasheed and this season for Plumlee. Matt and Amile have always been reliable, and continue to be so.

This team gives you a kind of comfort that the last few iterations have not. That no matter what happens, this team won't beat itself. The opponent will have to play better.

[TruBlu]

UNC loses, Duke wins - how could this night get any better?

*Seth Greenberg's microphone stops working*


I'll fight the guy who disagrees with any of this. Throw in UVa over Md and it is a perfect night!

OK, I'll be that guy.

UNC loses . . . to Duke!

[MarkD83]

We can avoid the early January "talking heads" discussion that Duke has not won a true road game against a quality opponent.

[camion]

I just finished watching the game. Overall though we were younger and playing on the road Duke looked more comfortable in the game.

We worked for and got the shots we wanted. I loved the decision making on offense.
We made them take the shots we wanted them to take.

That combination usually wins.

[sagegrouse]

Thoughts on the game:

The Crowd at Kohl was pretty disappointing. They never really seemed to get going.



"There is no greater thrill in sports than going into an opponent's stadium and making the crowd go quiet."

[brevity]

"There is no greater thrill in sports than going into an opponent's stadium and making the crowd go quiet."

Or quieter, as the case may be.

[Saratoga2]

What we acccomplished last night was to go in as an underdog against a veteran team, with an NBA quality center, a signicant size advantage, excellent 3 point shooting, excellent from the foul line and yet able to beat that team convincingly with speed, skill and execution.

The first praise should go to the coaching staff, who has realized the strengths of the team and had them ready to play a tough switching defense and to use our quickness and athletic advantages to get quality shots. As coach K said, Jahlil draws enough attention that space is created for other players who are good enough to take advantage of the overplay on Jah.

Our guards were outstanding tonight with Tyus almost unbelievably composed and even getting the nod from the coaches to be a go to guy near the end. Quinn also has been so good all season and gets his spots and knows how to use them. What a crutch it is to have a senior who has embraced the leadership role and also can come through when needed. Rasheed had his best game to date and is growing into the role needed of his. His scoring last night came consistently when needed. Matt is also very capable of scoring at any time out there. These four guards played defense usng their quickness to switch back and forth and give little opportunity for Wisconsin to feed the post or get open shots. With as much depth as we have at guard, we can keep the guys fresh on the floor and avoid serious foul roblems.

Justise played very hard on defense and he handled the ball very well for his size. I did think he got some tough fouls called against him. He just needs to continue what he is doing. He still hit some shots and will get a lot more in future.

Jahlil was such a threat that Wisconsin had to pay constant attention to him. If left one on one he can devastate any defense. His presense did allow the driving lanes and mid range shots to have just enough space for us to take advantage. He also is a defensive force and threat in there and Wisconsin had second thoughts about going against him inside. Marshall is a really big enthusiastic player who can give minutes for Jah. He is no liability out there and can pick up points around the basket and can hit free throws, which is an advantage over previous Plumlees.

This team has developed well already and we have also been in a position to allow Semi and Grayson opportunities to play. While they didn't get in last night, the opportunities they have gotten and will get in future games will move them along in the event we need them down the line.

I really didn't expect a win last night and thought we would need to play nearly a perfect game to pull off the win. That is what we got.

[BluBones]

And Wheat is MIA. Shocking!

Wheat is a long-time poster from a rival team who carries himself well. He deserves our respect, not our scorn.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

And Wheat is MIA. Shocking!

C'mon man, I have a life.

I had a meeting and had to watch the UNC game in a restaurant...got home for the 2nd half of the Duke game. It was late and I'd had a few drinks...trust me, you didn't want me on the board last night if you were gonna poke my chest.

Duke played the complete game, inside, outside, good defense and shot lights out. They're gonna win a lot of games if they keep playing like that. Well deserved big win.

As for UNC, it looks like for some reason they are having a crisis of confidence. They look tentative and unsure, which is odd for a team playing at home.
They couldn't finish easy shots at the rim because they (insert Brice Johnson/Hicks here) are not playing strong/confident. The wings are hesitating to shoot open looks, which compounds their confidence issues when they miss.

The defense is good, but can be lots better.

They lost this one with poor finishing at the rim...and most importantly, terrible rebounding. Iowa killed them on the offensive boards in the 2nd half. Killed them. And I didn't see anybody get pissed off on the court about it. That's a concern.

Paige is just pressing and Meeks is playing well.

Tokoto is up/down and playing too measured and reserved for his skills. He's got to get aggressive.

Something's gotta give with Johnson mentally, he's too talented to play this bad.

It's early and I've seen this movie before. This team has the ability to play very well, they just have not been doing it.

Biggest issue...toughness.

I saw Roy's post game and somebody asked him how do you coach toughness?

Roy said, "we're gonna find out".

I wouldn't write UNC off just yet.

[Clay Feet POF]

Wheat is a long-time poster from a rival team who carries himself well. He deserves our respect, not our scorn.


100%

[UrinalCake]

Haven't heard this mentioned yet but I was pretty pleased with Bilas's commentary. I know a lot of folks dislike him but I thought his analysis was great, describing our switching defense and also how Wisconsin was able to create open threes early on. There weren't too many controversial calls, and certainly none that determined the outcome, so it was nice to hear them focus on the actual game play.

[The Gordog]

Biggest issue...toughness.

I saw Roy's post game and somebody asked him how do you coach toughness?

Roy said, "we're gonna find out".

Someone should put this (http://smile.amazon.com/Toughness-Developing-True-Strength-Court/dp/0451414683/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417702054&sr=1-1&keywords=toughness)under his tree for Christmas.

[Mike Corey]

Haven't heard this mentioned yet but I was pretty pleased with Bilas's commentary. I know a lot of folks dislike him but I thought his analysis was great, describing our switching defense and also how Wisconsin was able to create open threes early on. There weren't too many controversial calls, and certainly none that determined the outcome, so it was nice to hear them focus on the actual game play.

I agree, aside from his observation that Tyus Jones' free throws in the second half were Duke's first of the game...other than the free throws Jones had taken moments before.

:)

Thrilled with the performance and the outcome last night. As so many before have smartly identified all the reasons for us fans to be delighted, I'm tickled at how...seasoned we looked.

I was told before the game that we were very loose and focused and ready for Wisconsin. That was darn right.

One thing I'd highlight: We weathered Wisconsin's hot shooting early, and very calmly responded until we took the lead and took control of the game. It's hard to dictate tempo against Wisconsin, let alone an experienced Wisconsin team playing at home. And we managed it with aplomb.

Lastly, Winslow did not have a great offensive night, but he hit a huge three and made a heady play in the key final minutes; that "next play" mentality, embraced already by Mr. Winslow, is awfully impressive. And yet, still not as impressive as his defense. He was wreaking havoc from the get-go.

This Duke team has the opportunity to be special. Very excited to watch the season and this team evolve.

[94duke]

Nice article at SI.com about Tyus and our win:
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2014/12/04/duke-wisconsin-tyus-jones-jahlil-okafor-frank-kaminsky

[CDu]

What a game. Yes, we shot 65% but I didn't think we were particularly lucky today. We earned that 65% with great shots and nice drives into the paint.

First, I completely agree with all the stuff you said below. Especially the comments about the calmness and "veteranness" of the team. A lot of that is Tyus Jones. The kid is just incredibly stable out there on the floor. He doesn't ever seem rattled. It's like the game is being played at his pace, no matter what the pace. Really impressive kid.

However, the part above I felt needed a bit of rebuttal. While, I would agree that we did a better job of getting good shots than Wisconsin, I think it is fair to note that we shot 58% (7-12) from 3pt range and (without the stats in front of me) an exceptionally high percentage on our long 2s as well. So while no individual jumpshot (well, except maybe Sulaimon's three that hit every part of the rim and the backboard before going in) was lucky, we were indeed lucky that we didn't miss a few more of those shots.

Also, just off the top of my head, I remember the following:
- I believe Okafor and Jefferson each went 2-2 on 15-18 ft shots (and Okafor's were contested)
- Matt Jones hit a spinning, fadeaway 10-12 ft bankshot in Dekker's face off the glass
- Jefferson shotput an off-balance layup fighting through a double-team that somehow went in

Even if we ignore the flukey shots by Jefferson and Jones, if Okafor and Jefferson go 1-2 each on those long jumpers and if we only shoot 5-12 on 3s (which is still a REALLY high percentage), that's a 10-pt difference in our score. In a game that was within 2-3 possessions up until the final minutes, that's a pretty significant break in our favor.

Basically, unless you are shooting all layups/dunks, anytime you shoot over 60% from the field there was some luck involved. I would venture that if we played the exact same floor game as last night 50 times, our shooting percentage would probably have been around 50-55% (in the 23/46 to 25/46 range). I'm quite sure have missed more of those long jumpers and 3s. So I think it's fair to say that we were a bit lucky tonight to shoot 30/46 last night. And it is fairly easy to identify specific examples of our good fortune.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that those shots went in for us. We played really well and with a ton of confidence. But I do think it is fair to acknowledge that we did catch some good breaks from the field goal shooting perspective. That doesn't detract from the fact that we played, at worst, a standstill quality of game with one of the best teams in the country on their home floor (which is also one of the toughest places to play).

It was a REALLY good win.


I don't care what KenPom thinks, the defensive switching + help strategy was masterful. We didn't quite execute the first few plays, which led to Kaminsky open 3s, but it was outstanding the rest of the way (short of a couple instances where we fouled a bit too easily). Wisconsin doesn't cut much and we leveraged that by doubling or tripling the post, and quickly reverting back to man when the ball is passed it out. We collapsed and reverted so quickly Wisconsin wasn't able to take advantage. We didn't double all the time, just often enough to frustrate.

That's if the post even received the ball. We put so much perimeter pressure, it was difficult for Wisconsin to initiate the offense; in one key stretch, we pressured and got turnovers.

Wisconsin is an ELITE offensive team: it has so many shooters and scorers, excellent passing and trust from years of playing together. That we were able to contain that offense is impressive.

The other thing I was deeply impressed by is the calm and collected demeanor of this Duke team. I saw it already in the Michigan State game, but it was even plainer here. They didn't look rattled. They never looked out of control. They played hard, but didn't play frantic. They took mostly good shots.

Amazingly, this looks like a veteran team. I credit a lot of it to the freshmen -- there's something so cool and confident about Tyus, Justice and Jahlil. It seems to have rubbed off on Quinn, and his face-palm mistakes of previous years are a distant memory. Rasheed and even Plumlee finally look it too, this game for Rasheed and this season for Plumlee. Matt and Amile have always been reliable, and continue to be so.

This team gives you a kind of comfort that the last few iterations have not. That no matter what happens, this team won't beat itself. The opponent will have to play better.

[TNDukeFan]

I caught the ESPN replay this am and really enjoyed it. This team doesn't frustrate me to watch. They make shots, make good decisions, and seem to enjoy playing together.

And sorry if I'm late to this, but I LOVE the huddle floor slap. It's a brilliant way for the team to take a huge (and undoubtedly daunting) tradition and make it new, make it their own.

[MCFinARL]

Meanwhile over in the Hill, a miasma of blame and self-loathing has settled over the land.

Here are Marcus Paige and Kennedy Meeks: http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1488252

And you know things aren't going well for Roy when he says "dadgum" three times and refers to himself in the third person twice in an 8 minute interview. http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1488243

Not only are they all depressed, but there's a bit of finger-pointing too. The reality that they may not have much of a team seems to be unpleasantly descending upon them

Yes, I'd call this a pretty fair evening of basketball.

They do all seem depressed. Re finger pointing, I have to give some props to Marcus Paige (a player I admit I find it hard to dislike despite his choice of school), who is perfectly willing to point the finger at himself.



The other thing I was deeply impressed by is the calm and collected demeanor of this Duke team. I saw it already in the Michigan State game, but it was even plainer here. They didn't look rattled. They never looked out of control. They played hard, but didn't play frantic. They took mostly good shots.

Amazingly, this looks like a veteran team. I credit a lot of it to the freshmen -- there's something so cool and confident about Tyus, Justice and Jahlil. It seems to have rubbed off on Quinn, and his face-palm mistakes of previous years are a distant memory. Rasheed and even Plumlee finally look it too, this game for Rasheed and this season for Plumlee. Matt and Amile have always been reliable, and continue to be so.



I agree that this team so far looks like one that rises to the occasion when adversity strikes rather than panicking (a big difference from last year's team, which didn't always seem to deal very well with tough game situations). But -- I admit this may be nitpicking -- let's give Quinn a bit more credit--the freshmen seem to have rubbed off on him? Maybe, but I think it is more that he has grown into the responsibility of being a captain and a leader, and it suits him very well. Coach K made a special point last night of noting how important and helpful it has been to Tyus to have Quinn on the court with him. He is a key part of this team's personality, not just a lucky beneficiary of the freshmen's influence.


Haven't heard this mentioned yet but I was pretty pleased with Bilas's commentary. I know a lot of folks dislike him but I thought his analysis was great, describing our switching defense and also how Wisconsin was able to create open threes early on. There weren't too many controversial calls, and certainly none that determined the outcome, so it was nice to hear them focus on the actual game play.

Agree--Bilas's remarks helped me to understand the game better last night. It's true he sometimes bends over backwards not to be a Duke homer, but that wasn't a strong theme last night, and in any case, I don't agree with the folks who think he is anti-Duke; he is just trying hard to be neutral.

[Dukehky]

What we acccomplished last night was to go in as an underdog against a veteran team, with an NBA quality center, a signicant size advantage, excellent 3 point shooting, excellent from the foul line and yet able to beat that team convincingly with speed, skill and execution.

I don't care what the spread was, we have 3 guaranteed first round picks on this team, we are not an underdog, nor will we be a real underdog this year. Obviously we won't win every game, but if you look at every game individually, we should win every game. I don't mean that in a we're unbeatable and should go undefeated kind of way. I mean that except for UK, if we played any other game in a vacuum and both teams play well without any major outliers, Duke should win all of those match ups. Talent and athleticism mixed in with mental toughness means a whole hell of a lot more than experience in college basketball. But we have experience too. I was furious with the announcers last night because when things got a little shaky Rasheed would make a big play, or Amile would be savvy and do something great on defense or on the glass. Our experience was better than their experience last night and our talent is way ahead of theirs, at least IMO.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Someone should put this (http://smile.amazon.com/Toughness-Developing-True-Strength-Court/dp/0451414683/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417702054&sr=1-1&keywords=toughness)under his tree for Christmas.

They need it.

[Henderson]

65% shooting on only 11 assists. We'd been averaging over 20 apg.

And because we only had 3 ORBs all night, that stat collectively means there were a lot of run outs, post-moves, and dribble-drives to the basket. It wasn't as though Duke won simply because it got hot from outside this one night. The 3's were definitely dropping (58%!?), but those shots only accounted for 21 of our 80 points. Duke shot 68% for the game from inside the arc. Wisconsin relied on the outside shot more than we did, both in terms of attempts and makes.

I was thinking last night how pleasant that flight back to RDU must have been for the players, having accomplished what they have and knowing that they have a breather from games for over 10 days while they square away their first-semester academics.

[Brockt10]

Since I haven't noticed it on any of the previous posts, can we please give Amile credit for the mid-range jumper? I have been waiting for him to start hitting that shot!! If he shows he can make it regularly it will open Okafor up in the post and this team gets a lot better. Amile is my man of the match just for showing he can hit the mid-range jumper!!!!

[devildeac]

Meanwhile over in the Hill, a miasma of blame and self-loathing has settled over the land.

Here are Marcus Paige and Kennedy Meeks: http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1488252

And you know things aren't going well for Roy when he says "dadgum" three times and refers to himself in the third person twice in an 8 minute interview. http://northcarolina.scout.com/story/1488243

Not only are they all depressed, but there's a bit of finger-pointing too. The reality that they may not have much of a team seems to be unpleasantly descending upon them

Yes, I'd call this a pretty fair evening of basketball.

Mrs. dd, the more sane and rational member of our fine union:o, read this AM that ol' Roy did lose a dear friend and neighbor earlier this week to pancreatic cancer so I think he deserves some sympathy. I hate the cheaters/felons as much (more?) than most folks here but this is a really tough personal loss for ol' Roy, no matter what person he's using to refer to himself.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/12/04/4375145/decock-with-heavy-heart-and-no.html

[porkpa]

Right now I'm loving this team. In the last three years have had arguably the three worst defensive and least enthusiastic teams of the Coach K era. This team in such a short time has morphed into one of his best.
They run, they shoot well and perhaps most importantly the play great defense with very few lapses. They are doing all this with three freshman starters. Their glue man and perhaps most improved player is senior and team captain Quin Cook. Sulaiman, Jefferson and MP3 have also contributed immensely as has sophomore Matt Jones who continues to improve with each game.
The best part may be that they are so young and relatively inexperienced in playing together. They should improve as the season progresses.

[flyingdutchdevil]

The 3 freshman have been amazing. There really isn't any discussion regarding that.

The upperclassmen to me, have been even more impressive. Not because they are more talented (TJ, the Oak, and Mr. Swiss Army Knife are the three most talented players), but because of how they have embraced their role. And no player has had to accept more roles than Sualimon.

During Sulaimon's freshman year, he was our best off-the-dribble player. He was the only player who could break down a defense. And he was really solid at it. He shot 42% from the floor, 37% from 3-pt land, averaged 11.6 ppg with 3.4 rpg and 1.9 apg. For a freshman. Austin Rivers averaged 15.5/3.4/2.1. Austin Rivers was THE go to player in '11-'12; Sulaimon was the 3rd/4th option at best during his freshman year (this isn't a shot at Rivers at all but rather an amazement at Sulaimon's freshman year). Sulaimon was also our best on-ball defender his freshman year, taking some heat off of Cook and/or Curry. To sum up, many of us thought Sulaimon was going to be the next big thing at Duke.

Sulaimon's sophomore year was an interesting one. It's said he came into the season out of shape. We all know the dog-house stories, that refusal to buy into a lesser role, the immaturity... but I see it slightly differently. Sulaimon's freshman year was incredible. Everyone - from active posters to the media to scouts - wanted to see this kid develop into a star. But two players came into Duke in the 2013-2014 season with more talent. Coach K said in the beginning of the year that the two best players were "Hood and Parker". Can you imagine the psyche of a young player who is anointed the future of Duke basketball to not have your coach name you as star player from Day 1? I don't fault Coach K, as Hood and Parker were more talented than Sulaimon and Sulaimon supposedly had come into the season out of shape, but I can understand Sulaimon's mentality. Sulking may not the most mature response, but he was 19 (for the record, Tyus isn't 18. He's got reverse Greg-Oden-Syndrome. I'm convinced Tyus is a 34-year old man in a 18-year old body). Also, Sulaimon's best offensive traits - taking the ball to the hoop, 3pt shooting, mid-range jumpers - were performed better by Hood and Parker. Sulaimon's defense - amazing during his freshman year - disappeared. Given that no one played defense last year, it's not surprising that Sulaimon didn't stress this trait. Sulaimon's role went from "future of Duke basketball" to "third banana" in less than a year.

Sulaimon's junior year is even more interesting. He - along with Matt Jones - are the super subs. Sulaimon can play 1-3 and Jones can play the 2-3, so they provide relief for our efficient starting backcourt. Sulaimon's role this year looks to be "offensive punch off the bench" coupled with "lock-down defender". Winslow looks to be our best defender overall, but Sulaimon looks to be our best on-ball defender. His D on Wisconsin was a thing of beauty, a "throwback", if you will, to his freshman year. Sulaimon looks happier, more content, and his talent is still out there for the world (okay, the US) to see. I like the role of Sulaimon as the super-sub. On this team, I still think he's the best at getting to the rim, but his lack of finishing needs to get better.

It's been an interesting journey for Sulaimon: from man-off-the-dribble to future-of-Duke-basketball to third-banana to super-sub. For a man who's last name means "Man of Peace", I really hope that Sulaimon has found his peace within this role.

[Clay Feet POF]

Since I haven't noticed it on any of the previous posts, can we please give Amile credit for the mid-range jumper? I have been waiting for him to start hitting that shot!! If he shows he can make it regularly it will open Okafor up in the post and this team gets a lot better. Amile is my man of the match just for showing he can hit the mid-range jumper!!!!


Thanks for pointing that out. I believe many on this Board have been waiting to see that jumper. Couldn't happen to a greater team player

[bbosbbos]

Basically, unless you are shooting all layups/dunks, anytime you shoot over 60% from the field there was some luck involved.

You did not mention Kaminsky was so lucky and hit two 3 at the beginning of the game over JO. And you also forgot to mention Jackson was 3-5 in 3pts. Just to remind you. Good 3pts sometimes means our spacing is good while opponents' D is poor, giving us enough time to set up good 3s.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Reid Forgrave from Fox Sports: http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/duke-hammers-wisconsin-starting-three-freshman-coack-k-blue-devils-will-be-in-final-four-120414

Too early? Obviously. But I can't help it.

[Tripping William]

Lastly, Winslow did not have a great offensive night, but he hit a huge three and made a heady play in the key final minutes; that "next play" mentality, embraced already by Mr. Winslow, is awfully impressive. And yet, still not as impressive as his defense. He was wreaking havoc from the get-go.



Absolutely concur with this. Although he was called for a foul (wrongly, IMO, and Bilas seemed to back me up), that block toward the end of the game was an absolute *statement* kind of play: Not . . . against . . . me, you won't!

Put a little differently: I nominate Justise for this team's Coach-K-Twelve-Letter-Compound-Word-That-Every-Team-Needs award.

[rifraf]

Every year before a big game the media hypes up some 1-on-1 matchup. For this game it was days of Okafor vs Kaminsky and pages of eInk spilled describing the freshman-vs-senior matchup. What I love about this is that it feels like K never buys into that and always finds some other way to neutralize the matchup. How many people wondered about Okafor's ability to guard Kaminsky when he went outside, and we just switched out and let our quicker wings take the perimeter for the most part.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say other than that I love seeing the media blabbering made irrelevant by very good coaching.

[bluenorth]

Loved watching Tyus Jones defend post players, especially Frank the Tank, and look comfortable doing it. This team seems to have 'bought in' to the defensive concepts. It would be great to see them play UNC right now.

[jv001]

Mrs. dd, the more sane and rational member of our fine union:o, read this AM that ol' Roy did lose a dear friend and neighbor earlier this week to pancreatic cancer so I think he deserves some sympathy. I hate the cheaters/felons as much (more?) than most folks here but this is a really tough personal loss for ol' Roy, no matter what person he's using to refer to himself.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/12/04/4375145/decock-with-heavy-heart-and-no.html

Thanks dd for the link. I'm the camp you're in. The one that can separate sports from real life issues. My prayers go out to the Seagrove family and to Roy Williams. I know what it's like to lose a good friend and family members(parents). So, I'll just keep my big mouth shut on the Tar Heels latest loss and revel in Duke's great win over the Badgers. By the way devildeac, I would spork you, but I must spread them around. GoDuke!

[jv001]

C'mon man, I have a life.

I had a meeting and had to watch the UNC game in a restaurant...got home for the 2nd half of the Duke game. It was late and I'd had a few drinks...trust me, you didn't want me on the board last night if you were gonna poke my chest.

Duke played the complete game, inside, outside, good defense and shot lights out. They're gonna win a lot of games if they keep playing like that. Well deserved big win.

It's early and I've seen this movie before. This team has the ability to play very well, they just have not been doing it.

Biggest issue...toughness.

I saw Roy's post game and somebody asked him how do you coach toughness?

Roy said, "we're gonna find out".

I wouldn't write UNC off just yet.

As with a lot of UNC teams under Roy, this one has started out slowly. But like you say, I wouldn't count the heels out just yet. I imagine by NCAAT time, the heels will be a much better team. Not that I'm rooting for them to be, but they will be none the less. GoDuke!

[azzefkram]

A really impressive game plan by Coach K. I didn't think it would hold up for the whole game but it did. There were more than a few times when the Tank was posting up Tyus or Quinn that I thought this isn't going to be pretty but we were able to prevent the entry pass. I am pleasantly surprised by the poise shown by our team and especially our freshman in an exceptionally tough place to play. Our guard play was top notch and while our bigs had a bit of a rough go, I always figured Kaminsky would be a tough cover for Jah and MP3.

I thought most of our shots were good ones so I wouldn't say we were exceptionally lucky with our shots.

[CDu]

You did not mention Kaminsky was so lucky and hit two 3 at the beginning of the game over JO. And you also forgot to mention Jackson was 3-5 in 3pts. Just to remind you. Good 3pts sometimes means our spacing is good while opponents' D is poor, giving us enough time to set up good 3s.

I didn't mention that because, on average, Wisconsin was just slightly above average on 3s. They shot 42.9% from 3, but they normally shoot 35% from 3. So really they were only 1 shot above their norm.

Kaminsky's two 3s early were not lucky. They were wide open and in rhythm as Okafor was very late in rotating back to challenge the shot. If you give a good shooter that much room, you should expect a good percentage those to go in. Note that Kaminsky later missed two similar 3s, so I'd say that any luck one the first two was balanced by bad luck on the second 2. Kaminsky is a 42% 3pt shooter on the year, so 2-4 is a completely reasonable outcome. And Jackson is a career 37% shooter from 3pt range, so he was really only 1 above his norm in shooting 3-5. That pretty much represents the 1 shot above Wisconsin's average on 3s. Conversely, they were slightly unlucky that Gasser (a 45% shooter) and Dukan (a 42% shooter). So in aggregate, Wisconsin probably should have hit 8-21 on 3s rather than 9-21, while we probably should have gone 5-13 on 3s and maybe 1-4 on long 2s by our bigs instead of 7-13 and 4-4.

Wisconsin's shooting performance was not wildly out of line with their season norms. Ours was, and it was almost across the board. Only Winslow didn't shoot WELL above his season average. And this is true both inside and outside the arc. When all but one of your players shoots above his season norms from 3pt range, that's pretty lucky. That happened for Duke and not for Wisconsin, yet both teams were getting similar looks from 3pt range.

Our opponent's defense was not poor on perimeter shots. Wisconsin is fantastic at defensive rotations and covering shooters. Where they were poor defensively was on handling players off the dribble. When Cook or Sulaimon or Jones went to the basket off the dribble, their guards couldn't stop us. Those driving layups weren't lucky. Us hitting 58% from three and our not-very-good perimeter shooting bigs going 4-4 on long jumpers was pretty lucky.

Don't get me wrong: I'm certainly not complaining. Good shooting nights happen, and we'll certainly have our share of off-nights at some point. But I think it's fair to say that we were lucky to shoot 58% from 3 and to hit such a high percentage of our long jumpers. Wisconsin was not similarly lucky, and that had a lot to do with the final score.

Both teams played really well. Both teams are very good. We happened to be fortunate and had the better shooting night. It doesn't take away from our win, and we should be pleased.

[subzero02]

On his radio program, Doug Gottlieb was adamant in picking a veteran Wisconsin team over our young upstarts. I can't wait to hear what he has to say today. I say it's unlikely that the phrase "alarmingly unathletic" will be used to describe us.

[Billy Dat]

Likewise, Justise took a step back. He seems to be hitting the freshman wall early, or maybe it's handling everything at the end of a semester that is overloading him somehow. I hope he regains his stride. The defense was incredible. Leave it to Coach K, in a year when we have a fairly "traditional" 1 through 5 out on the court, to come up with an incredibly innovative and unorthodox defense for this huge matchup. Amazing!

I don't care what KenPom thinks, the defensive switching + help strategy was masterful. We didn't quite execute the first few plays, which led to Kaminsky open 3s, but it was outstanding the rest of the way (short of a couple instances where we fouled a bit too easily). Wisconsin doesn't cut much and we leveraged that by doubling or tripling the post, and quickly reverting back to man when the ball is passed it out. We collapsed and reverted so quickly Wisconsin wasn't able to take advantage. We didn't double all the time, just often enough to frustrate.

Justise played very hard on defense and he handled the ball very well for his size. I did think he got some tough fouls called against him. He just needs to continue what he is doing. He still hit some shots and will get a lot more in future.

Lastly, Winslow did not have a great offensive night, but he hit a huge three and made a heady play in the key final minutes; that "next play" mentality, embraced already by Mr. Winslow, is awfully impressive. And yet, still not as impressive as his defense. He was wreaking havoc from the get-go.

Justise showed us so much so early this season that he's on the wildly swinging overrated to underrated pendulum right now. Edouble's adjacent quotes caught my eye because he talked about Justise taking a step back but the overall defense being amazing. As others followed-up, that defense was amazing in good part to Justise who, despite his turnovers and newfound tentativeness on the offensive end still managed to stay on the court for 32 minutes, second highest on the team. Looking at the box score after the game, that floored me as I assumed he was more like mid 20s so I figured I didn't notice him because he was locking up his assignments so well that the ball rarely found its way to his man or his side of the floor. Agree with Mike Corey on how he showed the "next play" mentality and made big plays down the stretch, aside from throwing that late-game post-timeout post feed into the crowd. Also agree with ice-9 about the switching strategy. It's not like there haven't been times when we "switch everything", but it clearly was not what Wisconsin thought we'd do - daring them the find their bigs posting our smalls - but we did it and it worked. That was a huge story, Wisconsin's inability to quickly find those mismatches.



Jahlil draws enough attention that space is created for other players who are good enough to take advantage of the overplay on Jah.
Jahlil was such a threat that Wisconsin had to pay constant attention to him. If left one on one he can devastate any defense. His presense did allow the driving lanes and mid range shots to have just enough space for us to take advantage.

Brockt10 Since I haven't noticed it on any of the previous posts, can we please give Amile credit for the mid-range jumper? I have been waiting for him to start hitting that shot!! If he shows he can make it regularly it will open Okafor up in the post and this team gets a lot better. Amile is my man of the match just for showing he can hit the mid-range jumper!!!!


When we talk about Jah, it is so easy to forget what Saratoga highlights, that his "gravity" allows all that guard play to happen. But, per Brock, it means that everyone else on the floor needs to be ready to attack when left open. Amile is getting better, and he needs to get even better because if he's hitting a face up 10 footer and driving, we get close to unguardable. It's something that I like about Matt Jones, he attacks the rim. Justise has gotten away from that attack these past two games and needs to get back to it. Rasheed, Quinn, and Tyus are already there. Jah's gravity creates those weak points and if everyone is ready to attack, it means that Jah will be able to easier get the ball in the post.


And sorry if I'm late to this, but I LOVE the huddle floor slap. It's a brilliant way for the team to take a huge (and undoubtedly daunting) tradition and make it new, make it their own.

I liked that the tradition found a new generation, but the execution was kind of tentative, like they were almost sheepish about it. Go big or go home with the slap boys!


However, the part above I felt needed a bit of rebuttal. While, I would agree that we did a better job of getting good shots than Wisconsin, I think it is fair to note that we shot 58% (7-12) from 3pt range and (without the stats in front of me) an exceptionally high percentage on our long 2s as well. So while no individual jumpshot (well, except maybe Sulaimon's three that hit every part of the rim and the backboard before going in) was lucky, we were indeed lucky that we didn't miss a few more of those shots.
Also, just off the top of my head, I remember the following:
- I believe Okafor and Jefferson each went 2-2 on 15-18 ft shots (and Okafor's were contested)
- Matt Jones hit a spinning, fadeaway 10-12 ft bankshot in Dekker's face off the glass
- Jefferson shotput an off-balance layup fighting through a double-team that somehow went in

I am with CDu that we can appreciate this win while also acknowledging that we shot like the Bishop Pickering was putting in Caddyshack. Aside from the shots CDu cited, there was a bizarre Amile fling at the rim that missed but two Wisconsin players basically ran into each other and the ball fell the Marshall right under the rim. Jah also hit a pretty insane spin around bank shot over his opposite shoulder from about 10 feet. I thought the rims seemed really friendly on both sides. Some nights its all working, I'll always take it but we were great and definitely lucky too.


C'mon man, I have a life. I had a meeting and had to watch the UNC game in a restaurant...got home for the 2nd half of the Duke game. It was late and I'd had a few drinks...trust me, you didn't want me on the board last night if you were gonna poke my chest.

Good for you, Wheat. Very funny. But, telling a bunch of rabid message board devotees that you have a life, that's just cruel man. I try to tell myself that DBR is less important than my family, my job and other things, but sometimes I also have to admit the opposite to that man in the mirror.:cool:

[77devil]

C'mon man, I have a life.

I had a meeting and had to watch the UNC game in a restaurant...got home for the 2nd half of the Duke game. It was late and I'd had a few drinks...trust me, you didn't want me on the board last night if you were gonna poke my chest.

Call me a cynic, but if the outcome of the two games were reversed, I'm pretty sure you would have been here poking the bear.



Biggest issue...toughness.

I saw Roy's post game and somebody asked him how do you coach toughness?

Roy said, "we're gonna find out".

I wouldn't write UNC off just yet.

Sounds like a lot of bluster and we've heard it before. Team attitude and toughness are on the coach, pure and simple. Roy recruited the players and he is accountable for their attitude. If he hasn't yet instilled toughness into this team, it's likely not going to happen. I didn't listen to Roy's presser, but it wouldn't surprise anyone if he threw a few players under the bus and continues to do so this season.

Maybe it's unrelated, although I doubt it, that UNC's relative lack of success on the court since 2009 has coincided with the blow up of the academic/athletic fraud. So Huck can continue to blame others for that too.

[InSpades]

I can't be the only one looking forward to the night when Duke shoots 65% and UNC shoots 28% in the same game :).

Great job by the boys last night. A lot of different lineups used and everything seemed to work. Justice w/ a good amount of time at the 4. Amile got some run at the 5 (though that was likely just foul trouble). A lot of smaller lineups on the floor but we never seemed too small (when your 6'1 PG can cover their 7" center in the low block... nothing seems too small).

We did hit a lot of tough shots (jumpers over their bigs, some tough floaters in the lane, etc). We also hit a lot of easy shots. At times we looked lost just dribbling and passing around the perimeter but when it came time to create shots... we did just that. I would have liked to see us utilize Jah a bit more in the post but Kaminsky did a good job down low.

Great win. Best win of the season (for any team in college basketball). Many more to come.

[sagegrouse]

Anyone else feel they were watching a junior version of Team USA against a Euro team? I thought the styles of play reinforced the analogy. It was speed and defense against size and shooting -- and while speed kills, great defense can stop good shooting.

CDu makes the fair point that a ten-point win is not too impressive when you shoot 65 percent. OTOH we got a lot of open looks on the outside through ball movement and the gravitational force of Okafor. Also, Justise will be more of a scorer in future contests -- he was a bit out of sync, but clearly a major talent. We will get more points in transition in other games.

Henderson commented on the low number of assists, which I attribute to dribble penetration. The driver got to finish because Wisconsin was glued to Okafor.

[Mal]

- Was there a single defensive possession where we gave up more than one offensive rebound? I recall being so frustrated in recent seasons at those endless defensive trips where we'd give up four shots because we couldn't corral a rebound due to positioning, skill, or laziness. Don't remember that happening at all last night. Some of that's probably due to Wisconsin's spread the court offensive philosophy and having Kaminsky spend half his time outside the arc, I guess, but I still liked what I saw.

- Tyus Jones reminds me of Russell Wilson. Not bursting with athleticism, but preternaturally cool and intelligent and aware of game situation, when to throw daggers and when not to, and always thinking a step ahead. I love how he gives great credit to Quinn for teaching him how to handle the moment and being a team leader.

- My feeling at the end of last season was that it was amongst the most disappointing seasons I'd had as a Duke fan. Not just because we bombed out in the tourney, but because it produced the largest gap between talent/potential and actual results that I could remember (I've probably blocked out other traumatic seasons, I suppose, but while '11-'12, for instance, was frustrating, it felt different because I think that team overachieved much of the season). Last year's squad never gelled, the chemistry just didn't work, and it was perplexing because they were all good kids. Maybe it was partly Parker's playing style, which is different from Okafor's - Bilas pointed out last night how Jah doesn't need the ball in his hands every possession to get and keep a feel for the game; whereas I felt like Parker, to be at his best, needed to be the center of the flow. Whatever it was, it was frustrating to watch and the loss to Mercer felt shockingly unsurprising. In any event, my point is simply amazement at how quickly things can change. I'm going to try to enjoy this season as much as possible, because that was the most satisfying win against anyone not from Cheater Hill I've watched since I don't know when.

[weezie]

I can't be the only one looking forward to the night when Duke shoots 65% and UNC shoots 28% in the same game :)....


We're all giddy, that's true but those miserable holes are just the kind of mid-season annoyance we don't need to tempt. :eek:

[CDu]

Anyone else feel they were watching a junior version of Team USA against a Euro team? I thought the styles of play reinforced the analogy. It was speed and defense against size and shooting -- and while speed kills, great defense can stop good shooting.

CDu makes the fair point that a ten-point win is not too impressive when you shoot 65 percent. OTOH we got a lot of open looks on the outside through ball movement and the gravitational force of Okafor. Also, Justise will be more of a scorer in future contests -- he was a bit out of sync, but clearly a major talent. We will get more points in transition in other games.

Henderson commented on the low number of assists, which I attribute to dribble penetration. The driver got to finish because Wisconsin was glued to Okafor.

Definitely agree on the USA vs Euro comment. We were clearly the more athletic team. And probably the more skilled team (aside from Jackson and Kaminsky, Wisconsin is pretty much a bunch of spot-up shooters and/or less-skilled-but-athletic-or-physical bigs). We have so many ballhandlers and shot creators (any of T. Jones, Cook, Sulaimon, Winslow, and maybe even M. Jones can create their own shot from the perimeter, and Okafor can create from the post) and we are very athletic.

As for your reference to my comments about lucky shooting. I don't mean to suggest that the win was not impressive. It was. Any win at Wisconsin is impressive. Doubly so this year when Wisconsin is really really good. As Billy Dat so eloquently said, I just think it's fair to say that we played really well AND we good pretty lucky. And that combination resulted in the 10-point win. Had we not gotten lucky and just played really well, that game is a dogfight to the end (which is still really impressive given how good Wisconsin is and how good they are at home).

The low assist totals were a combination of our guards having success finishing their own drives, Okafor's ability to score on his own post opportunities, and Wisconsin being a very disciplined defensive team. I'm not at all concerned by the low assist totals last night.

[OldPhiKap]

Since I haven't noticed it on any of the previous posts, can we please give Amile credit for the mid-range jumper? I have been waiting for him to start hitting that shot!! If he shows he can make it regularly it will open Okafor up in the post and this team gets a lot better. Amile is my man of the match just for showing he can hit the mid-range jumper!!!!

I'm with you on this.

[moonpie23]

And Wheat is MIA. Shocking!

wheat has proven that he returns, whether good or bad stuff happens to us or them....

he's welcome here any time...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Call me a cynic, but if the outcome of the two games were reversed, I'm pretty sure you would have been here poking the bear.



Sounds like a lot of bluster and we've heard it before. Team attitude and toughness are on the coach, pure and simple. Roy recruited the players and he is accountable for their attitude. If he hasn't yet instilled toughness into this team, it's likely not going to happen. I didn't listen to Roy's presser, but it wouldn't surprise anyone if he threw a few players under the bus and continues to do so this season.

Maybe it's unrelated, although I doubt it, that UNC's relative lack of success on the court since 2009 has coincided with the blow up of the academic/athletic fraud. So Huck can continue to blame others for that too.

Cynic....nah, more like a troll.

No coach should have to coach effort at this level.

However, since a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while...I'll give you that the ultimate responsibility for how a team plays is on the coach and that Roy has got to recruit tougher kids or do a better job of finding ways to push their buttons.

[Billy Dat]

- Was there a single defensive possession where we gave up more than one offensive rebound? I recall being so frustrated in recent seasons at those endless defensive trips where we'd give up four shots because we couldn't corral a rebound due to positioning, skill, or laziness. Don't remember that happening at all last night. Some of that's probably due to Wisconsin's spread the court offensive philosophy and having Kaminsky spend half his time outside the arc, I guess, but I still liked what I saw.

- Tyus Jones reminds me of Russell Wilson. Not bursting with athleticism, but preternaturally cool and intelligent and aware of game situation, when to throw daggers and when not to, and always thinking a step ahead. I love how he gives great credit to Quinn for teaching him how to handle the moment and being a team leader.

- My feeling at the end of last season was that it was amongst the most disappointing seasons I'd had as a Duke fan. Not just because we bombed out in the tourney, but because it produced the largest gap between talent/potential and actual results that I could remember (I've probably blocked out other traumatic seasons, I suppose, but while '11-'12, for instance, was frustrating, it felt different because I think that team overachieved much of the season). Last year's squad never gelled, the chemistry just didn't work, and it was perplexing because they were all good kids. Maybe it was partly Parker's playing style, which is different from Okafor's - Bilas pointed out last night how Jah doesn't need the ball in his hands every possession to get and keep a feel for the game; whereas I felt like Parker, to be at his best, needed to be the center of the flow. Whatever it was, it was frustrating to watch and the loss to Mercer felt shockingly unsurprising. In any event, my point is simply amazement at how quickly things can change. I'm going to try to enjoy this season as much as possible, because that was the most satisfying win against anyone not from Cheater Hill I've watched since I don't know when.

In response to your first two bullets, we had two co-leading rebounders each with 6. One of those players was Jah. The other was Russell Wilson. What else can we give him credit for? Do we think he came up with the switching strategy? Did he fly the team plane? Did he counsel the team to not eat any pre-game brats?

In response to your third bullet, I bolded the part that I agree with the most and that made last season so incredibly frustrating. This season seems to be trending differently, in that respect and others. Today is a day to bask and dream, I want to give myself 24 hours of over-celebration before trying to reign myself back in.

[Edouble]

Justise showed us so much so early this season that he's on the wildly swinging overrated to underrated pendulum right now. Edouble's adjacent quotes caught my eye because he talked about Justise taking a step back but the overall defense being amazing. As others followed-up, that defense was amazing in good part to Justise who, despite his turnovers and newfound tentativeness on the offensive end still managed to stay on the court for 32 minutes, second highest on the team. Looking at the box score after the game, that floored me as I assumed he was more like mid 20s so I figured I didn't notice him because he was locking up his assignments so well that the ball rarely found its way to his man or his side of the floor. Agree with Mike Corey on how he showed the "next play" mentality and made big plays down the stretch, aside from throwing that late-game post-timeout post feed into the crowd. Also agree with ice-9 about the switching strategy. It's not like there haven't been times when we "switch everything", but it clearly was not what Wisconsin thought we'd do - daring them the find their bigs posting our smalls - but we did it and it worked. That was a huge story, Wisconsin's inability to quickly find those mismatches.

Justise is an elite defender and an amorphous puzzle piece that can fit into myriad situations on the defensive side of the court. Coach K mentioned in his press conference that Justise's ability to slide to the 4 spot was a huge boon for our end of game scenario when Jah picked up his fourth foul late.

I'll stand by my comment though, that he has taken a step back. I don't know if it's a matter of Justise ramping up the aggressiveness or what, but he has been on the receiving end of some unfortunate foul calls in the last two games. Just as Coach K suggested after the Army game that Jah needs to learn to sell a foul better, Justise needs to learn what is and what is not going to be called, on the offensive and on the defensive end. He is not overrated, but his rawness might need some fine tuning. If he is not our best, he is at the least our most versatile defender. I think it's possible to take a step back and still play 32 minutes, as a B level game from Justise still lends value to the overall defense, which was amazing.

[kAzE]

Awesome win!! I gotta hand it to Wisconsin, they were absolutely the best team we've faced thus far, and I'm not sure we will play a tougher opponent for the rest of the regular season. It was an absolutely remarkable shooting performance for our team that won the day. Some of our shots were easy shots, but let's be real, we hit an unusual number of really tough shots at really key moments, and that really ended up being the difference in the game. Our offense is absolutely legit, and certainly one of the best, if not THE best in the country, but still, judging by the posts that I've read thus far, most of us will admit we really hit some lucky shots.

I was at the game, and because of the way we played, the crowd was just never into it. They got a little excited when the Badgers closed the gap to 3 with about 7 minutes to go, but after Winslow's emphatic dunk off the inbound, there was a noticeable collective sigh of resignation amongst the red-clad fans in the stadium. We literally hit a shot every single time the crowd almost got going. It was insane . . . but I will give the fans a lot of credit, as they were extremely well-mannered and good sports. I genuinely surprised to not hear one utterance of "F Duke" all night. I wish we could play them every year. A home and home series against them every would be fantastic (especially since i live in Madison).

Some thought on Tyus: I've followed this kid since we started recruiting him (I have a youtube playlist of his mixtapes that I've probably watched about 100 times, they are fantastic), and in these past couple of games, he's finally become the assertive point guard scouts thought he could be. Every write up of his high school and AAU performances in the past raved about his uncanny feel for the game, and I think the entire nation finally saw that on full display last night. He's always had that Chris Paul-like ability to correctly sense when he needs to set up his teammates and when he needs to just take over a game, and he can do either one with a high level of calm and poise that far exceeds his age and experience. I'll admit, I was a bit disappointed with how much he seemed to defer to other players early on this year, but I think he's finally become the real Tyus Jones. Cook is the leader of this team, but I believe it's going to be Tyus' team going forward (much like it was Jabari's team last year). I think the most impressive stat is that Tyus essentially had 0 turnovers last night in the toughest of environments. (The 1 on the box score was the incorrectly called charge where he took the blocking foul and hit a floater in transition) The ball needs to be in his hands when it matters the most, because he's going to make the right decision almost every time.

Winslow had a few pretty bad turnovers, but aside from a couple of badly timed gambles for steals, he was able to basically shut down Dekker and Hayes from doing anything offensively. He's the single biggest reason for our improved defense, Sulaimon and Okafor are tied for second.

Also, huge props to Rasheed Sulaimon. He and Cook have been incredible this year in reduced roles. Both of them are so much better then they were last year, and it's a really underrated reason why we're so good right now. Sulaimon probably hit the most "lucky shots" of anyone last night, but his defense and emotion were just as important to this win. He was great.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Awesome win!! I gotta hand it to Wisconsin, they were absolutely the best team we've faced thus far, and I'm not sure we will play a tougher opponent for the rest of the regular season. It was an absolutely remarkable shooting performance for our team that won the day. Some of our shots were easy shots, but let's be real, we hit an unusual number of really tough shots at really key moments, and that really ended up being the difference in the game. Our offense is absolutely legit, and certainly one of the best, if not THE best in the country, but still, judging by the posts that I've read thus far, most of us will admit we really hit some lucky shots.

I was at the game, and because of the way we played, the crowd was just never into it. They got a little excited when the Badgers closed the gap to 3 with about 7 minutes to go, but after Winslow's emphatic dunk off the inbound, there was a noticeable collective sigh of resignation amongst the red-clad fans in the stadium. We literally hit a shot every single time the crowd almost got going. It was insane . . . but I will give the fans a lot of credit, as they were extremely well-mannered and good sports. I genuinely surprised to not hear one utterance of "F Duke" all night. I wish we could play them every year. A home and home series against them every would be fantastic (especially since i live in Madison).

Some thought on Tyus: I've followed this kid since we started recruiting him (I literally have a youtube playlist of his mixtapes that I've probably watched about 100 times, they are fantastic), and in these past couple of games, he's finally become the assertive point guard I thought he could be. Every write up of his high school and AAU performances in the past raved about his uncanny feel for the game, and I think the entire nation finally saw that on full display last night. He's always had that Chris Paul-like ability to correctly sense when he needs to set up his teammates and when he needs to just take over a game, and he can do either one with a high level of calm and poise that far exceeds his age and experience. I'll admit, I was a bit disappointed with how much he seemed to defer to other players early on this year, but I think he's finally become the real Tyus Jones. Cook is the leader of this team, but I believe it's going to be Tyus' team going forward (much like it was Jabari's team last year). I think the most impressive stat is that Tyus essentially had 0 turnovers last night in the toughest of environments. (The 1 on the box score was the incorrectly called charge where he took the blocking foul and hit a floater in transition) The ball needs to be in his hands when it matters the most, because he's going to make the right decision almost every time.

Great write up Kaze. The bolded line is, IMO, the key to our success. Tyus is arguably one of the best, if not the best, passers in the country. As you said, he has this incredible instinct to get the ball where it needs to go. But why I think this is so much truer now is that Tyus has proven that he can score against elite competition. MSU and UW aren't push-overs but Tyus made them look silly. Putting the ball in his hands leads to good things.

Also, I really like the Tyus-Cook-Sulaimon-Winslow-Okafor line-up. For me, it's the most interesting line-up offensively. That line-up has 4 legit 3pt shooters, 2 rebounders, 4 dribble-drive players, 1 amazing post player, and solid D. You give up size and rebounding, but you gain so much mobility. I expect to see that line-up plenty in close games.

[peterjswift]

I enjoyed the game thoroughly last night - I would like to echo the number of posters who pointed out Amile's mid-range shot - I think that has significant ramifications down the road when opponents watch tape of this game - if he can continue to hit that consistently, teams can double down on Okafor all they want, and Duke will have Jefferson scoring all the points. It was also great to see Matt Jones and Plumlee the Youngest make significant contributions - I think one of my favorite aspects of this team is that the bench players aren't a notch down on defense. They might be slightly less effective on offense, but defensively they produce max-effort and get results.

One side note - two of the commercials were bugging me - it seems like Taco Bell dominated the advertising, and they repeatedly showed two commercials, which seemed to have complete opposite messages - one was pointing out the need for a free hand, and Taco Bell makes that possible. The other was pointing out that their food is so good you don't want to free up either hand for a handshake. Anyone else notice that?

Also - how about Bo Ryan's tie? The group I watched with made frequent mention of how long his tie was. The more scotch we drank, the more hilarious his tie appeared...please tell me we weren't the only ones to notice that.

[ice-9]

However, the part above I felt needed a bit of rebuttal. While, I would agree that we did a better job of getting good shots than Wisconsin, I think it is fair to note that we shot 58% (7-12) from 3pt range and (without the stats in front of me) an exceptionally high percentage on our long 2s as well. So while no individual jumpshot (well, except maybe Sulaimon's three that hit every part of the rim and the backboard before going in) was lucky, we were indeed lucky that we didn't miss a few more of those shots.

...

I would venture that if we played the exact same floor game as last night 50 times, our shooting percentage would probably have been around 50-55% (in the 23/46 to 25/46 range). I'm quite sure have missed more of those long jumpers and 3s. So I think it's fair to say that we were a bit lucky tonight to shoot 30/46 last night. And it is fairly easy to identify specific examples of our good fortune.

I agree with the spirit of your point. By particularly lucky I meant we weren't taking and making well guarded long jumpers like say...a certain Baron did from Rhode Island. Our perimeter shots were usually in the flow of the offense and open. Points in the paint came from dribble penetration and good post play. We scored several times off of turnovers.

We mostly took very, very good shots.

Sure, we were lucky that more went in than normal, but to have that opportunity you have to earn it. The quality of play brings about good luck. And I thought we did that today. 50% to 55% sounds about right in terms of long-run percentage.

I haven't watched Wisconsin this season so don't know the ins and outs of their team, but I also thought they had a few lucky shots. I was actually amazed they scored 1.13 ppp on us.

Whether or not we revert to the mean, based on today's game, I feel confident that we'd win in a rematch. Our offense had some luck, but it wasn't lucky.

[kAzE]

Great write up Kaze. The bolded line is, IMO, the key to our success. Tyus is arguably one of the best, if not the best, passers in the country. As you said, he has this incredible instinct to get the ball where it needs to go. But why I think this is so much truer now is that Tyus has proven that he can score against elite competition. MSU and UW aren't push-overs but Tyus made them look silly. Putting the ball in his hands leads to good things.

Also, I really like the Tyus-Cook-Sulaimon-Winslow-Okafor line-up. For me, it's the most interesting line-up offensively. That line-up has 4 legit 3pt shooters, 2 rebounders, 4 dribble-drive players, 1 amazing post player, and solid D. You give up size and rebounding, but you gain so much mobility. I expect to see that line-up plenty in close games.

I think that's probably the best lineup we have currently for the "we need to get a bucket on this possession" situation. Amile actually showed some ability to hit a midrange jumper in this game, though, which is something he's GOT to be working on. If he can hit that consistently, I like him in there for his ability to generate extra possessions with his rebounding. It's pretty tough, I think we obviously need the 3 freshman in there and Cook for his shooting, but the last guy could really be anyone in our top 8 depending on the situation. Matt Jones showed some real heart in this game too, and he's starting win me over, but his offensive game just isn't quite there yet.

[ice-9]

I agree that this team so far looks like one that rises to the occasion when adversity strikes rather than panicking (a big difference from last year's team, which didn't always seem to deal very well with tough game situations). But -- I admit this may be nitpicking -- let's give Quinn a bit more credit--the freshmen seem to have rubbed off on him? Maybe, but I think it is more that he has grown into the responsibility of being a captain and a leader, and it suits him very well. Coach K made a special point last night of noting how important and helpful it has been to Tyus to have Quinn on the court with him. He is a key part of this team's personality, not just a lucky beneficiary of the freshmen's influence.

Sure, it's probably both. I wonder though if he would have been as great if we didn't have the three freshmen? Chemistry can be a funny thing to predict sometimes. Whatever the case, the chemistry is clearly very good this year.

[NSDukeFan]

Aside from T Jones, I was most encouraged by Amile's ability, and willingness, to hit the 12-14 foot shot. That opens up a lot of possibilities for the future.
Beyond what it does for the team's offense, it will greatly affect the level he plays at after Duke.

I almost feel sorry for Wisc. Seeing as they play Wojo'sbteam on Saturday!
As someone said in the pre-game, they overlooked Duke as the trap game. ;)

Tyus gave a very poised interview, great job.

Personally hurts me that he was born 10 years after Bilas' great '86 senior year.
I can't believe that's true.

What a thoroughly enjoyable, high-quality game between two skilled teams.

Tyus Jones showed why he was the top PG recruit. He should be on the short list of best PG in the country. The kid is that good. So composed, so skilled, so smart. Now if only he could defend... But just an awesome game by him. I am a big fan.

Inwas surprised to see us switching on all ball screens. It was a classic Duke strategy, but it seemed risky to me. But it appeared to confuse Wisconsin as they really weren't able to get the right iso mismatches. Kudos to our help defense for being there in the rare times when Wisconsin did get the mismatch edge.


That was the most fun I have had watching in a while!
I highlighted some of my favorite parts from your post. I was also very surprised by the amount of switching Duke did on screens and how Wisconsin wasn't able to take advantage. Great pressure, intensity, communication, toughness and focus by everyone. I agree with Your offensive characterization of Tyus but think you are being a little harsh on his defensive skills. I think he has looked fine so far defensively. Even the best guards get beat from time to time. All in all, an extremely satisfying victory.



Tyus Jones - wow. Don't worry about his defense - he will be a great defender for us. Jackson is an NBA first rounder who will make lots of people trying to guard him look bad. But if Tyus got burned on a play, oh did he answer. He is so smart and so clutch. Duke has had 1 point guard better than this guy, and he plays with Lebron.

I agreed with most of the rest of your post, but the 2-time champ who is also the all-time NCAA assist leader and Jason Williams say hi.




I don't care what KenPom thinks,


I don't think his algorithm does think, kind of like some of the talking heads. (;

I was ready to be impressed if Duke played well and lost in one of the toughest places to win in college hoops and am just so excited and impressed at how well this team has performed.

To be a bit of a realist/downer, I don't think I could enjoy this team as much as 2010 or 2011, just because I haven't cheered for some of the key guys for quite as long, but these guys sure are fun to watch.

[roywhite]

Great write up Kaze. The bolded line is, IMO, the key to our success. Tyus is arguably one of the best, if not the best, passers in the country. As you said, he has this incredible instinct to get the ball where it needs to go. But why I think this is so much truer now is that Tyus has proven that he can score against elite competition. MSU and UW aren't push-overs but Tyus made them look silly. Putting the ball in his hands leads to good things.



Duke stats through 8 games (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=2014-15)

We've had a decent sample size and some good opponents (along with a few easy ones) so the numbers are starting to look more indicative of overall performance.

Focusing on Tyus, I'm fine with him shooting 46.2% FG, 36% 3-Pt, and 84.4% FT. But his 46 assists to 8 turnovers is remarkable (and delicious). What an excellent passer indeed. Have to go back to Hurley for a Duke comparison on assists from the PG, and Hurley esp. early on had problems with turnovers. Tough opponent, big stage -- doesn't seem to bother Tyus, or he even picks up his game.

[CDu]

Awesome win!! I gotta hand it to Wisconsin, they were absolutely the best team we've faced thus far, and I'm not sure we will play a tougher opponent for the rest of the regular season. It was an absolutely remarkable shooting performance for our team that won the day. Some of our shots were easy shots, but let's be real, we hit an unusual number of really tough shots at really key moments, and that really ended up being the difference in the game. Our offense is absolutely legit, and certainly one of the best, if not THE best in the country, but still, judging by the posts that I've read thus far, most of us will admit we really hit some lucky shots.

I was at the game, and because of the way we played, the crowd was just never into it. They got a little excited when the Badgers closed the gap to 3 with about 7 minutes to go, but after Winslow's emphatic dunk off the inbound, there was a noticeable collective sigh of resignation amongst the red-clad fans in the stadium. We literally hit a shot every single time the crowd almost got going. It was insane . . . but I will give the fans a lot of credit, as they were extremely well-mannered and good sports. I genuinely surprised to not hear one utterance of "F Duke" all night. I wish we could play them every year. A home and home series against them every would be fantastic (especially since i live in Madison).

Some thought on Tyus: I've followed this kid since we started recruiting him (I have a youtube playlist of his mixtapes that I've probably watched about 100 times, they are fantastic), and in these past couple of games, he's finally become the assertive point guard scouts thought he could be. Every write up of his high school and AAU performances in the past raved about his uncanny feel for the game, and I think the entire nation finally saw that on full display last night. He's always had that Chris Paul-like ability to correctly sense when he needs to set up his teammates and when he needs to just take over a game, and he can do either one with a high level of calm and poise that far exceeds his age and experience. I'll admit, I was a bit disappointed with how much he seemed to defer to other players early on this year, but I think he's finally become the real Tyus Jones. Cook is the leader of this team, but I believe it's going to be Tyus' team going forward (much like it was Jabari's team last year). I think the most impressive stat is that Tyus essentially had 0 turnovers last night in the toughest of environments. (The 1 on the box score was the incorrectly called charge where he took the blocking foul and hit a floater in transition) The ball needs to be in his hands when it matters the most, because he's going to make the right decision almost every time.

Winslow had a few pretty bad turnovers, but aside from a couple of badly timed gambles for steals, he was able to basically shut down Dekker and Hayes from doing anything offensively. He's the single biggest reason for our improved defense, Sulaimon and Okafor are tied for second.

Also, huge props to Rasheed Sulaimon. He and Cook have been incredible this year in reduced roles. Both of them are so much better then they were last year, and it's a really underrated reason why we're so good right now. Sulaimon probably hit the most "lucky shots" of anyone last night, but his defense and emotion were just as important to this win. He was great.

Hope you had a blast at the game!

[GGLC]

I think that's probably the best lineup we have currently for the "we need to get a bucket on this possession" situation. Amile actually showed some ability to hit a midrange jumper in this game, though, which is something he's GOT to be working on. If he can hit that consistently, I like him in there for his ability to generate extra possessions with his rebounding. It's pretty tough, I think we obviously need the 3 freshman in there and Cook for his shooting, but the last guy could really be anyone in our top 8 depending on the situation. Matt Jones showed some real heart in this game too, and he's starting win me over, but his offensive game just isn't quite there yet.

Matt's currently shooting 61 percent from the floor with a good mix of athletic drives, jumpers, and three-pointers. I think his offensive game is further along than you think, and the reason you don't see more of it is that he's typically the third or fourth option when he's in the game.

[ChillinDuke]

The 3 freshman have been amazing. There really isn't any discussion regarding that.

The upperclassmen to me, have been even more impressive. Not because they are more talented (TJ, the Oak, and Mr. Swiss Army Knife are the three most talented players), but because of how they have embraced their role. And no player has had to accept more roles than Sualimon.

During Sulaimon's freshman year, he was our best off-the-dribble player. He was the only player who could break down a defense. And he was really solid at it. He shot 42% from the floor, 37% from 3-pt land, averaged 11.6 ppg with 3.4 rpg and 1.9 apg. For a freshman. Austin Rivers averaged 15.5/3.4/2.1. Austin Rivers was THE go to player in '11-'12; Sulaimon was the 3rd/4th option at best during his freshman year (this isn't a shot at Rivers at all but rather an amazement at Sulaimon's freshman year). Sulaimon was also our best on-ball defender his freshman year, taking some heat off of Cook and/or Curry. To sum up, many of us thought Sulaimon was going to be the next big thing at Duke.

Sulaimon's sophomore year was an interesting one. It's said he came into the season out of shape. We all know the dog-house stories, that refusal to buy into a lesser role, the immaturity... but I see it slightly differently. Sulaimon's freshman year was incredible. Everyone - from active posters to the media to scouts - wanted to see this kid develop into a star. But two players came into Duke in the 2013-2014 season with more talent. Coach K said in the beginning of the year that the two best players were "Hood and Parker". Can you imagine the psyche of a young player who is anointed the future of Duke basketball to not have your coach name you as star player from Day 1? I don't fault Coach K, as Hood and Parker were more talented than Sulaimon and Sulaimon supposedly had come into the season out of shape, but I can understand Sulaimon's mentality. Sulking may not the most mature response, but he was 19 (for the record, Tyus isn't 18. He's got reverse Greg-Oden-Syndrome. I'm convinced Tyus is a 34-year old man in a 18-year old body). Also, Sulaimon's best offensive traits - taking the ball to the hoop, 3pt shooting, mid-range jumpers - were performed better by Hood and Parker. Sulaimon's defense - amazing during his freshman year - disappeared. Given that no one played defense last year, it's not surprising that Sulaimon didn't stress this trait. Sulaimon's role went from "future of Duke basketball" to "third banana" in less than a year.

Sulaimon's junior year is even more interesting. He - along with Matt Jones - are the super subs. Sulaimon can play 1-3 and Jones can play the 2-3, so they provide relief for our efficient starting backcourt. Sulaimon's role this year looks to be "offensive punch off the bench" coupled with "lock-down defender". Winslow looks to be our best defender overall, but Sulaimon looks to be our best on-ball defender. His D on Wisconsin was a thing of beauty, a "throwback", if you will, to his freshman year. Sulaimon looks happier, more content, and his talent is still out there for the world (okay, the US) to see. I like the role of Sulaimon as the super-sub. On this team, I still think he's the best at getting to the rim, but his lack of finishing needs to get better.

It's been an interesting journey for Sulaimon: from man-off-the-dribble to future-of-Duke-basketball to third-banana to super-sub. For a man who's last name means "Man of Peace", I really hope that Sulaimon has found his peace within this role.

This is just such a good post from top to bottom that I felt obligated to comment.

Really, really great stuff. No sporks allowed, unfortunately.

- Chillin

[gus]

I agreed with most of the rest of your post, but the 2-time champ who is also the all-time NCAA assist leader and Jason Williams say hi.

Apparently I'm still not allowed to spork you, so I'm quoting for emphasis. In his potential defense, it is possible that RichardJackson199 is young enough to have never actually seen Hurley play. Remember most of the freshman class were born in 1996.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Matt's currently shooting 61 percent from the floor with a good mix of athletic drives, jumpers, and three-pointers. I think his offensive game is further along than you think, and the reason you don't see more of it is that he's typically the third or fourth option when he's in the game.

What's interesting about Matt is that his FG% is nearly identical to his FT% (61.3% vs 61.5%). Matt Jones is a solid 3pt shooter and a surprisingly solid driver, but he is a terrible FT shooter (56% last year, 62% this year). Hope he can work on that. It's a big part of the reason Matt will not be ending games.

[PSurprise]

Didn't get a chance to see the game last night, so I'm going to watch it tonight. Don't tell me who wins, okay?!? I'm really excited!

:cool:

[GGLC]

What's interesting about Matt is that his FG% is nearly identical to his FT% (61.3% vs 61.5%). Matt Jones is a solid 3pt shooter and a surprisingly solid driver, but he is a terrible FT shooter (56% last year, 62% this year). Hope he can work on that. It's a big part of the reason Matt will not be ending games.

Yeah, his free throw form is truly atrocious. He should be getting lessons from Marshall Plumlee. (I find it hilarious that I can say that without a trace of irony.) Of course, his free throws look a lot like his three-point shots -- extremely quick shotput release, very little follow-through -- but I think the reason he's found his three-point shot this season is that the game's slowed down enough for him that he's able to take and make those shots in rhythm when receiving a pass; he has no such luxury at the free throw line.

Truly, it's Matt's driving ability that has really impressed me; he's finished off a number of extremely athletic moves this season, and I love the fact that he's willing to put the ball on the floor like that and has the body control to get good shots.

[77devil]

I'll give you that the ultimate responsibility for how a team plays is on the coach and that Roy has got to recruit tougher kids or do a better job of finding ways to push their buttons.

I'll add that Huck was out coached last night. Further he rotates his players way too much. UNC is not UK and doesn't have the talent to play players 9-12 a total of 22 minutes in a close game.

[roywhite]

...the reason he's found his three-point shot this season is that the game's slowed down enough for him that he's able to take and make those shots in rhythm when receiving a pass; he has no such luxury at the free throw line.

Truly, it's Matt's driving ability that has really impressed me; he's finished off a number of extremely athletic moves this season, and I love the fact that he's willing to put the ball on the floor like that and has the body control to get good shots.

Agree with the kudos for Matt, and props, too, to Sheed; he was terrific. The two of them provide speed, energy, defense, and driving ability when they come in.

Remarkable how well established the roles and rotation are at this point. Coach K has to be delighted with the way the pieces are fitting together.

And, yes, if he really likes the roles the top 8 guys have, he can then figure how best to use the 9th and 10th men. Hang in there, Semi, and Grayson.

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, his free throw form is truly atrocious. He should be getting lessons from Marshall Plumlee. (I find it hilarious that I can say that without a trace of irony.) Of course, his free throws look a lot like his three-point shots -- extremely quick shotput release, very little follow-through -- but I think the reason he's found his three-point shot this season is that the game's slowed down enough for him that he's able to take and make those shots in rhythm when receiving a pass; he has no such luxury at the free throw line.

Truly, it's Matt's driving ability that has really impressed me; he's finished off a number of extremely athletic moves this season, and I love the fact that he's willing to put the ball on the floor like that and has the body control to get good shots.

Matt Jones has an unusual shot, but last year there was this hitch, like he was trying to slow up his release, and then a quick push as the shot left his hand. This year, he may have quit trying to reshape his shot form and just do what he did in HS. At least, his shot is in one motion.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'll add that Huck was out coached last night. Further he rotates his players way too much. UNC is not UK and doesn't have the talent to play players 9-12 a total of 22 minutes in a close game.

Not every loss needs to have the blame assigned to the coach. Most of the times it's the players getting outplayed.

Roy is a very good coach. He's trying to build a good team, and they are not there yet....but players have to play to gain experience. Nobody ever wants to lose, but an early season loss like last night is not a big deal. The real play for the season doesn't start until conference play gets here.

Last night, even UNC fans were screaming at Roy for having James and Simmons on the floor late in the game. They are the fair weather, impatient, fans lacking fundamental knowledge of what it takes to build a team. (Every fan base has them).

But those guys were at least giving the effort that Roy was demanding and it was a teachable moment to those who were not giving the effort required to play.

A coach can't use playing time as a carrot if he's not willing to back it up and sit their butts down if they are not playing hard.

Anybody want to take a bet against Johnson not starting next game? I bet he's gonna start Pinson, slide Jackson to PF and go small for a bit.

[kAzE]

Not every loss needs to have the blame assigned to the coach. Most of the times it's the players getting outplayed.

Roy is a very good coach. He's trying to build a good team, and they are not there yet....but players have to play to gain experience. Nobody ever wants to lose, but an early season loss like last night is not a big deal. The real play for the season doesn't start until conference play gets here.

Last night, even UNC fans were screaming at Roy for having James and Simmons on the floor late in the game. They are the fair weather, impatient, fans lacking fundamental knowledge of what it takes to build a team. (Every fan base has them).

I feel Carolina under Roy (especially in the 1 and done era) has always kind of been inconsistent early in the season, and then they'll put it together and go on a run in the ACC. They are also relying on some pretty young players for offense (who are normal young players, not the freakish mutant young players on our team) I don't doubt that they will get much better once the season progresses, especially with the way they defend and rebound. It's really a very athletic team, one of the most athletic teams in the country, comparable with Kentucky. They really just need to get it together on offense, find a couple more guys who can keep defenses honest by knocking down some shots from deep, and they should be very good.

[COYS]

Henderson commented on the low number of assists, which I attribute to dribble penetration. The driver got to finish because Wisconsin was glued to Okafor.

I think this is THE insight into why we had low numbers of assists. Bo Ryan even referenced that they looked at our season shot charts and then tried to take away a lot of the shots we had been getting. Early in the game, Quinn by his defender and into the lane, ready to dump it off to Jahlil for the jam like our guards have done all season. The problem? The help defender didn't fully rotate away from Jahlil and Quinn was caught between a pass and a shot and ultimately turned the ball over. Another time early in the first half Tyus and Jahlil played the pick n' roll. Jahlil rolled to the hoop, but the Wisconsin defense stayed with him. Tyus threw Jahlil the ball, but he was forced way out of the lane towards the wing and the pass was really awkward. However, Quinn and Tyus (and our other guards) adjusted. The next time they got in the lane, they attacked the hoop to score, first. Or, (moreso for Tyus) if the defender went under a screen or sagged off of him, he pulled the trigger on his own shot. Wisconsin stayed on Jahlil (or Amile) and we got layup after layup. Finally, in the second half, Quinn drove and the Wisconsin defense actually did rotate to help. Quinn realized it right away and dumped it off to Jahlil for the jam. It was great recognition by Quinn, but it highlights that this was one of the few opportunities when we really had a chance for an easy assist.

I thought it was impressive that the Badgers took away what had been our bread and butter on offense (driving and kicking and/or driving and dumping to a big) along with pounding the ball into Jahlil. However, our guards responded brilliantly by proving that they could drive to score.

Incidentally, I also think this was part of the reason that Rasheed looked so great. Rasheed usually drives to score, first, and so his attack-minded play was a perfect fit for what Wisconsin's defense was giving us (note that I'm not taking anything away from Rasheed, who had an excellent game).

[Billy Dat]

I think this is THE insight into why we had low numbers of assists. Bo Ryan even referenced that they looked at our season shot charts and then tried to take away a lot of the shots we had been getting. Early in the game, Quinn by his defender and into the lane, ready to dump it off to Jahlil for the jam like our guards have done all season. The problem? The help defender didn't fully rotate away from Jahlil and Quinn was caught between a pass and a shot and ultimately turned the ball over. Another time early in the first half Tyus and Jahlil played the pick n' roll. Jahlil rolled to the hoop, but the Wisconsin defense stayed with him. Tyus threw Jahlil the ball, but he was forced way out of the lane towards the wing and the pass was really awkward. However, Quinn and Tyus (and our other guards) adjusted. The next time they got in the lane, they attacked the hoop to score, first. Or, (moreso for Tyus) if the defender went under a screen or sagged off of him, he pulled the trigger on his own shot. Wisconsin stayed on Jahlil (or Amile) and we got layup after layup. Finally, in the second half, Quinn drove and the Wisconsin defense actually did rotate to help. Quinn realized it right away and dumped it off to Jahlil for the jam. It was great recognition by Quinn, but it highlights that this was one of the few opportunities when we really had a chance for an easy assist.

I thought it was impressive that the Badgers took away what had been our bread and butter on offense (driving and kicking and/or driving and dumping to a big) along with pounding the ball into Jahlil. However, our guards responded brilliantly by proving that they could drive to score.

Incidentally, I also think this was part of the reason that Rasheed looked so great. Rasheed usually drives to score, first, and so his attack-minded play was a perfect fit for what Wisconsin's defense was giving us (note that I'm not taking anything away from Rasheed, who had an excellent game).

Agree with all this, excellent analysis. I think that when sporking ability is denied, we need to add the relevant icon....(see Siskel/Ebert hand above)

[OldPhiKap]

Not every loss needs to have the blame assigned to the coach. Most of the times it's the players getting outplayed.

Roy is a very good coach. He's trying to build a good team, and they are not there yet....but players have to play to gain experience. Nobody ever wants to lose, but an early season loss like last night is not a big deal. The real play for the season doesn't start until conference play gets here.

Last night, even UNC fans were screaming at Roy for having James and Simmons on the floor late in the game. They are the fair weather, impatient, fans lacking fundamental knowledge of what it takes to build a team. (Every fan base has them).

But those guys were at least giving the effort that Roy was demanding and it was a teachable moment to those who were not giving the effort required to play.

A coach can't use playing time as a carrot if he's not willing to back it up and sit their butts down if they are not playing hard.

Anybody want to take a bet against Johnson not starting next game? I bet he's gonna start Pinson, slide Jackson to PF and go small for a bit.

I just don't see where the outside shots are going to come from beyond Paige, at least on a consistent basis. And that is a problem that is very difficult to fix from the coach's box. The only real remedy is off-the-chart defense, and as we saw in Durham last year that's not always a function of coaching either.

Carolina has a lot of athletes but not many scorers.

[azzefkram]

He's trying to build a good team, and they are not there yet...

I fully expect them to flounder around and look very ordinary until about mid-February... say around the 18th... and then it will all seem to click. You guys are sooooo annoying that way.


Incidentally, I also think this was part of the reason that Rasheed looked so great. Rasheed usually drives to score, first, and so his attack-minded play was a perfect fit for what Wisconsin's defense was giving us (note that I'm not taking anything away from Rasheed, who had an excellent game).

Not that the rest of your post wasn't great, but this is an excellent observation.

[OldPhiKap]

Agree with all this, excellent analysis. I think that when sporking ability is denied, we need to add the relevant icon....(see Siskel/Ebert hand above)

Got him for you (and me too -- excellent insight IMO)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I feel Carolina under Roy (especially in the 1 and done era) has always kind of been inconsistent early in the season, and then they'll put it together and go on a run in the ACC. They are also relying on some pretty young players for offense (who are normal young players, not the freakish mutant young players on our team) I don't doubt that they will get much better once the season progresses, especially with the way they defend and rebound. It's really a very athletic team, one of the most athletic teams in the country, comparable with Kentucky. They really just need to get it together on offense, find a couple more guys who can keep defenses honest by knocking down some shots from deep, and they should be very good.

Agreed.

Roy's not afraid to play bench guys early and get them the experience for later....and in real tough situations in close games...He'll tighten the rotation when the games mean more.

UNC played absolutely terrible in both of their losses, yet still could have easily won with just a made chippie or a few made FT's here and there.

What's got to drive Roy nuts is that with just a little more effort, we'd likely be looking at an undefeated, top five ranked team.

[77devil]

Not every loss needs to have the blame assigned to the coach. Most of the times it's the players getting outplayed.

Roy is a very good coach. He's trying to build a good team, and they are not there yet....but players have to play to gain experience. Nobody ever wants to lose, but an early season loss like last night is not a big deal. The real play for the season doesn't start until conference play gets here.


A coach can't use playing time as a carrot if he's not willing to back it up and sit their butts down if they are not playing hard.

I don't wish to hijack a Duke post game thread so I'm out after this response.

Roy has demonstrated at times to be a very good recruiter, but his weaknesses as a coach have been highly exposed since his recruiting success has been waning. His coaching has been inflexible in response to the differing mix and styles of talent. Lack of player effort has been a recurring theme of yours for several seasons, but that is one of the primary responsibilities of a coach in judging talent and motivating players once on campus.

Roy often disparages his players in public after a loss. That is inexcusable behavior for a so called "very good"
coach.


I feel Carolina under Roy (especially in the 1 and done era) has always kind of been inconsistent early in the season, and then they'll put it together and go on a run in the ACC. They are also relying on some pretty young players for offense (who are normal young players, not the freakish mutant young players on our team) I don't doubt that they will get much better once the season progresses, especially with the way they defend and rebound. It's really a very athletic team, one of the most athletic teams in the country, comparable with Kentucky. They really just need to get it together on offense, find a couple more guys who can keep defenses honest by knocking down some shots from deep, and they should be very good.

UNC is not that young by today's standards. While the bench is youthful, the starters are 3 juniors, a soph. and a frosh. Maybe they will come around but after getting pummeled by Kentucky, UNC will have 3 losses and a coach who I believe will have lost the respect of players who are tired of reading in public that it is all their fault.

[flyingdutchdevil]

...but how about them Blue Devils, huh?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I just don't see where the outside shots are going to come from beyond Paige, at least on a consistent basis. And that is a problem that is very difficult to fix from the coach's box. The only real remedy is off-the-chart defense, and as we saw in Durham last year that's not always a function of coaching either.

Carolina has a lot of athletes but not many scorers.

I think they have scorers, but not shooters,(beyond Paige).

The good is that although it's getting lost in all UNC's other issues, Meeks is quietly playing at an All ACC level.

And UNC's defense has been very good....(rebounding, like batteries for their motors, not included).


One thing I'd tell Tokoto is he needs to start driving strong to the rim. I don't care if he fouls out on charges, in fact, I'd encourage it. He can score.

As can Jackson, who just needs the game to flow better for him to find his scoring opportunities.


It's pretty simple to me. Lack of rebounding effort is killing them at the moment, and that can be fixed.

Edit: let's take UNC discussion to the Weekly ACC thread.

[flyingdutchdevil]

...but how about them Blue Devils, huh?

:( :(

[CDu]

Agreed.

Roy's not afraid to play bench guys early and get them the experience for later....and in real tough situations in close games...He'll tighten the rotation when the games mean more.

UNC played absolutely terrible in both of their losses, yet still could have easily won with just a made chippie or a few made FT's here and there.

What's got to drive Roy nuts is that with just a little more effort, we'd likely be looking at an undefeated, top five ranked team.

As I posted in another thread, effort doesn't really seem to be the problem for UNC. Inability to shoot the basketball seems to be the problem. UNC was plenty tough; they just weren't any good.

It's true that Williams would have a top-5 team if they'd hit a few more shots. But that top-5 ranking would hardly be justified based on their play. Losing to unranked Butler and Iowa (and Iowa at home) and shooting under 30% from the field as a team in any game is not evidence of top-5 quality.

Ole' Roy made comments about the team not being tough, but it's difficult to win on "toughness" alone when your team can't shoot the basketball. UNC out-toughed Iowa just as much (actually moreso) than they did in either of their two good wins over UCLA and UF. The difference? In one game, UNC couldn't shoot, and in the other two they hit shots.

The only game in which toughness was the problem was the loss to Butler, where they let a smaller team outrebound them by 17. But toughness was not a problem in losing to Iowa, just like it wasn't a problem in their wins over UCLA and UF.

If UNC is going to make any noise, they are going to have to find some consistent shooting. Even mediocre shooting will give them a chance against most teams.

But back to the topic of the thread, it's nice that Duke doesn't have the same problems shooting the ball, as evidence by our win over Wisconsin. :)

[DukieInKansas]

Does anyone remember the turnover during the last 1-2 minutes. We were dribbling in the corner near half court with a ref right next them and the next thing I see is the ref on the other side of the court signalling a turnover. With my limited knowledge, I could never figure out what caused the turnover. Did anyone see it and know what happened?

It might have been a makeup call - one of the times we inbound the ball from under their basket after a timeout, I didn't think we came close to getting it in within the allotted 5 seconds. They really hustled to get the ball over half court w/in the 10 seconds,

[CDu]

Does anyone remember the turnover during the last 1-2 minutes. We were dribbling in the corner near half court with a ref right next them and the next thing I see is the ref on the other side of the court signalling a turnover. With my limited knowledge, I could never figure out what caused the turnover. Did anyone see it and know what happened?

It might have been a makeup call - one of the times we inbound the ball from under their basket after a timeout, I didn't think we came close to getting it in within the allotted 5 seconds. They really hustled to get the ball over half court w/in the 10 seconds,

Cook was called for a push-off foul away from the ball. It happened as he was coming toward the center of the court and to the ball from the far side (close to our bench). It is hard to tell from the TV angle how much he pushed off, but he definitely did push off a little.

[Billy Dat]

Cook was called for a push-off foul away from the ball. It happened as he was coming toward the center of the court and to the ball from the far side (close to our bench). It is hard to tell from the TV angle how much he pushed off, but he definitely did push off a little.

I thought the game was well officiated in that it wasn't over-officiated, but, of the calls that were made, many were bizarre or bad calls, on both sides.

[CDu]

I thought the game was well officiated in that it wasn't over-officiated, but, of the calls that were made, many were bizarre or bad calls, on both sides.

Yeah, the two that stand out most in my mind were the phantom foul on Winslow's block of Jackson's driving layup (the only contact on the play was a forearm to Winslow's chest by Jackson) and a bogus foul on Kaminsky. Also, the travel called on Jackson immediately following Winslow's driving dunk late was bogus.

It wasn't a game where I felt the calls or no-calls were a factor either way. A lot of that I think had to do with how crisp the play was by both teams. Neither team got themselves in debatable positions on either end of the floor very much, and both teams generally took clean shot attempts. I think at one point fairly deep into the first half there had been just 2 free throws attempted, and neither team even reached the bonus in the first half.

P.S. I just watched the Cook offensive foul again, and it was a good call. Cook didn't push off drastically, but he got his forearam to high up into the upper chest/neck area of Gasser. That's a no-no.

[azzefkram]

Yeah, the two that stand out most in my mind were the phantom foul on Winslow's block of Jackson's driving layup (the only contact on the play was a forearm to Winslow's chest by Jackson) and a bogus foul on Kaminsky. It wasn't a game where I felt the calls or no-calls were a factor either way. A lot of that I think had to do with how crisp the play was by both teams. Neither team got themselves in debatable positions on either end of the floor very much, and both teams generally took clean shot attempts. I think at one point fairly deep into the first half there had been just 2 free throws attempted, and neither team even reached the bonus in the first half.

I thought the refs were a tad inconsistent. It seemed like there were times when they were letting them play and others where the whistle was a bit quick. Also I am shocked, shocked I say, that you didn't mention the mugging of MP3 that ended his near record setting consecutive shots made streak.

[Kedsy]

I was at the game, and because of the way we played, the crowd was just never into it.

Have you been to Kohl before? It has such a strong reputation that I'm surprised that the crowd could be taken out of it so easily.

Also, I agree Justise played great defense, and his sideline give-and-go dunk was absolutely the play of the game, but after Army and this performance, it's really hard for me to see him as a top five NBA draft pick in 2015.


He's always had that Chris Paul-like ability to correctly sense when he needs to set up his teammates and when he needs to just take over a game, and he can do either one with a high level of calm and poise that far exceeds his age and experience.

While Tyus was in high school, I read that he was really good at realizing when his team needed him to take over the game and then doing it, and last night we saw exactly that. He just put the team on his back and controlled the game. It was an amazing thing to see, especially from a freshman.


As you guys said above, this was a nearly perfect Rasheed game in that his shot selection was fantastic. It's easy to say that when they go in, but none of those shots were ones where you yell "No!" at the TV and then shrug when they go in.

Sorry, but I yelled "No!" twice at the TV on Rasheed shots. I guess two out of eight isn't so bad.


If we stay healthy, I think we hit the tournament with a maximum of 2 losses and we win the damn thing.

A maximum of two losses? We were talking about bold predictions in another thread, but this is what I call bold.


Also, I really like the Tyus-Cook-Sulaimon-Winslow-Okafor line-up. For me, it's the most interesting line-up offensively. That line-up has 4 legit 3pt shooters, 2 rebounders, 4 dribble-drive players, 1 amazing post player, and solid D. You give up size and rebounding, but you gain so much mobility. I expect to see that line-up plenty in close games.

I like our regular starting lineup. Amile is very important for our overall team defense, and he's by far our best rebounder.


Right now I'm loving this team. In the last three years have had arguably the three worst defensive and least enthusiastic teams of the Coach K era.

There's absolutely no reason to throw the 2013 season in with the other two. While Ryan Kelly was healthy, Duke had one of the top five defenses in the country (according to Pomeroy), and all year the team seemed to have great energy and enthusiasm and chemistry.


Duke has had 1 point guard better than this guy, and he plays with Lebron.

Others have mentioned Bobby Hurley and Jason Williams. Frankly, I need more than 8 games before I put Tyus ahead of Tommy Amaker and Chris Duhon (especially if you factor defense into the equation). And senior Jon Scheyer and senior Nolan Smith would have decent arguments as well (unless you don't count them because they were really combo guards playing point).

Perhaps by the end of the season, Tyus will climb into fourth or fifth place. Maybe higher, but IMO it's way too early for such statements.

[DukieInKansas]

Cook was called for a push-off foul away from the ball. It happened as he was coming toward the center of the court and to the ball from the far side (close to our bench). It is hard to tell from the TV angle how much he pushed off, but he definitely did push off a little.

Thank you. Didn't catch and announcers didn't indicate what caused the turnover. I replayed it several times but never caught it.

[kAzE]

Have you been to Kohl before? It has such a strong reputation that I'm surprised that the crowd could be taken out of it so easily.

Also, I agree Justise played great defense, and his sideline give-and-go dunk was absolutely the play of the game, but after Army and this performance, it's really hard for me to see him as a top five NBA draft pick in 2015.

This was my first game at Kohl . . . I got the feeling that people were just hoping the Badgers could hold on the whole game. Even though it was close throughout, it felt like Duke was always in control and ready to pull away. They kept it close by winning the free throw battle, but our ridiculous shooting kept knocking the crowd back in their seats over and over again. People were kind of just in disbelief over the shots that were going down for us. I'm not any fans could stay engaged against that kind of shooting, even the Crazies. Maybe it was me. I need to go to more games :p

I don't see this game as a ding on Winslow's draft stock at all . . . he shut down the entire wing depth chart of a top 5 team in the country almost single handed. Nigel Hayes, Josh Gasser, and Sam Dekker combined to shoot 5-14 for a total of 16 points. Those are 3 high level players who were basically non-factors in this game. The only Wisconsin players who were doing major damage on offense were Kaminski and Jackson, who were rarely switched on to Winslow. He only took 6 shots, but I don't think he wasn't being asked to carry much of an offense load with the amount of work he put in on defense. He did have a few poor turnovers, so I'm not saying he had a GREAT game, but I don't see this hurting his draft stock like you're implying. I think it just illustrates that he finds other ways to contribute even when he's not getting as many touches on offense. I think it's also worth mentioning that he was second on the team in assists with 3. You guys are taking my top 5 prediction too seriously . . . that wasn't a definitive "this will happen" prediction, it was a fun "it would be awesome if I got all these right?" prediction. Realistically, I think he's probably a top 10 pick, but there's definitely upside. That's why it was a "fearless/bold" prediction. (Apparently CDu still doesn't think they are bold enough ;))



Others have mentioned Bobby Hurley and Jason Williams. Frankly, I need more than 8 games before I put Tyus ahead of Tommy Amaker and Chris Duhon (especially if you factor defense into the equation). And senior Jon Scheyer and senior Nolan Smith would have decent arguments as well (unless you don't count them because they were really combo guards playing point).

Perhaps by the end of the season, Tyus will climb into fourth or fifth place. Maybe higher, but IMO it's way too early for such statements.

I think J-Will, Kyrie, and Hurley are firmly ahead right now. Amaker and Duhon are on notice. Do we count Johnny D as a PG? He'd be ahead at the moment too. This was 1 big game, Tyus will come back to earth, but he's definitely reached a new level.

[Furniture]

I haven't watched the game yet as I have been in Sweden all week. I will definitely watch when I get home tomorrow. Really excited about all of these comments!

[CDu]

This was my first game at Kohl . . . I got the feeling that people were just hoping the Badgers could hold on the whole game. Even though it was close throughout, it felt like Duke was always in control and ready to pull away. They kept it close by winning the free throw battle, but our ridiculous shooting kept knocking the crowd back in their seats over and over again. People were kind of just in disbelief over the shots that were going down for us. I'm not any fans could stay engaged against that kind of shooting, even the Crazies. Maybe it was me. I need to go to more games :p

I hope you had a good time. I've always wanted to go check that place out, some I'm jealous that you got to see such a big-time game (and that the game lived up to its billing). As for the crowd, it probably helped that Wisconsin (aside from maybe those first two Kaminsky 3s) never really had a huge edge in momentum. So the crowd (probably not used to not having game control) didn't get it going.


You guys are taking my top 5 prediction too seriously . . . that wasn't a definitive "this will happen" prediction, it was a fun "it would be awesome if I got all these right?" prediction. Realistically, I think he's probably a top 10 pick, but there's definitely upside. That's why it was a "fearless/bold" prediction. (Apparently CDu still doesn't think they are bold enough ;))

Hey now, I was giving you credit on the Winslow thing (at least for now of course). It was the OTHER predictions I didn't find bold! ;)

I agree that this particular game shouldn't hurt his stock too much. Yes, he looked shaky on offense. But he did play excellent defense. I'm not sure I'd say he almost single-handedly shut down Hayes, Gasser, and Dekker. I think Matt Jones, Sulaimon, and Jefferson deserve a lot of credit too. Heck, given how much we were switching on ball screens, I'd be hard pressed to say any one guy was responsible for effective defense. It was a pretty good team effort with lots of good communication.

But I do agree that one game won't sabotage his stock. I liken his case somewhat to a high school pitcher with a big fastball. He doesn't have to always throw it 95 mph. If a scout sees him throw it 90-92 and occasionally hit 95, they say "he's got the tools to throw 95." Given Winslow's age, he's going to be drafted based on potential and not production. And he's shown the physical tools and well as some of the skills (very solid ball-handler for a wing, perhaps a capable shooter, excellent defender, tough kid) that tend to translate to the NBA. As long as he doesn't go on a long stretch of playing poorly, I don't know that his stock will drop too much. And even if he does go on a bender of poor play, if he rebounds late in the season he might just jump right back up the boards again.


I think J-Will, Kyrie, and Hurley are firmly ahead right now. Amaker and Duhon are on notice. Do we count Johnny D as a PG? He'd be ahead at the moment too. This was 1 big game, Tyus will come back to earth, but he's definitely reached a new level.

I think this is about right. He looks so comfortable out there at PG. He seems to know when the team needs him to score. I don't think he's as good a shooter as he showed last night, but he's not a liability there either. But I do think his feel for the game, his ballhandling skills, and his court vision are on par with any our past Duke PG. I'd say he has a better feel for the game than JWill (whose success was more attributable to being an overwhelming athletic specimen) and Kyrie (just phenomenal one-on-one skills), and more skills than Duhon and Amaker (though both of those guys were MUCH better defenders obviously). His game most reminds me of Hurley, which I realize is high praise. His game seems more polished/mature at this point than Hurley's was as a frosh and he's definitely stronger physically than Hurley was, but he's not as quick as Hurley (whose quickness was really underrated).

Despite where I think his game is, I do think he has a ways to go yet to really be in a meaningful discussion with those first three (four if you want to count Dawkins, but he played SG pretty much his whole career). And it's just a matter of whether you value defense and longevity over offensive talent when compared to Duhon and Amaker.

[OZ]

after Army and this performance, it's really hard for me to see him as a top five NBA draft pick in 2015.


You can make that judgment based on those two games? I could have done the same with some of Parker's games.

[ACCBBallFan]

... And no player has had to accept more roles than Sualimon.

...
Sulaimon's junior year is even more interesting. He - along with Matt Jones - are the super subs. Sulaimon can play 1-3 and Jones can play the 2-3, so they provide relief for our efficient starting backcourt. Sulaimon's role this year looks to be "offensive punch off the bench" coupled with "lock-down defender". Winslow looks to be our best defender overall, but Sulaimon looks to be our best on-ball defender. His D on Wisconsin was a thing of beauty, a "throwback", if you will, to his freshman year. Sulaimon looks happier, more content, and his talent is still out there for the world (okay, the US) to see. I like the role of Sulaimon as the super-sub. On this team, I still think he's the best at getting to the rim, but his lack of finishing needs to get better.

It's been an interesting journey for Sulaimon: from man-off-the-dribble to future-of-Duke-basketball to third-banana to super-sub. For a man who's last name means "Man of Peace", I really hope that Sulaimon has found his peace within this role.

Count the number of times Sheed says "Proud" in his post-game interview

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=3579402&db_oem_id=4200

Does not seem jealous at all of notoriety being given to the 3 frosh, in contrast to point you made about last year with Jabari Parker and Rodney Hood.

Maturity.

[ACCBBallFan]

Haven't heard this mentioned yet but I was pretty pleased with Bilas's commentary. I know a lot of folks dislike him but I thought his analysis was great, describing our switching defense and also how Wisconsin was able to create open threes early on. There weren't too many controversial calls, and certainly none that determined the outcome, so it was nice to hear them focus on the actual game play.

I agree, aside from his observation that Tyus Jones' free throws in the second half were Duke's first of the game...other than the free throws Jones had taken moments before.

:)

....

Jay's other faux pas was he couldn't recall Tyus's turnover that happened to be on his pet peeve subject, a bogus charge call.

[ACCBBallFan]

Reid Forgrave from Fox Sports: http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/duke-hammers-wisconsin-starting-three-freshman-coack-k-blue-devils-will-be-in-final-four-120414

Too early? Obviously. But I can't help it.

Check out Grayson Allen's reaction on the bench. So much for the he may transfer rumors

[MCFinARL]

Duke stats through 8 games (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=2014-15)

We've had a decent sample size and some good opponents (along with a few easy ones) so the numbers are starting to look more indicative of overall performance.

Focusing on Tyus, I'm fine with him shooting 46.2% FG, 36% 3-Pt, and 84.4% FT. But his 46 assists to 8 turnovers is remarkable (and delicious). What an excellent passer indeed. Have to go back to Hurley for a Duke comparison on assists from the PG, and Hurley esp. early on had problems with turnovers. Tough opponent, big stage -- doesn't seem to bother Tyus, or he even picks up his game.

These stats are truly insane. The team as a whole has a 2-1 (very slightly better than 2-1, actually--2.027 to 1) assist to turnover ratio on the year. Rasheed is at 2.29 to 1 and Quinn at 3.62 to 1. But 46 to 8-- 5.75 assists for every turnover--that is beyond ridiculous.

[Kedsy]

But I do agree that one game won't sabotage his stock. I liken his case somewhat to a high school pitcher with a big fastball. He doesn't have to always throw it 95 mph. If a scout sees him throw it 90-92 and occasionally hit 95, they say "he's got the tools to throw 95."

Yeah, but if he consistently throws 95, they'd probably say, "he has the potential to get up to 98 as his body matures." Big difference in the baseball world from a guy who has the tools to get up to 95, because a lot of guys can hit 95 occasionally while not so many can get up to 98. Probably similar to the difference in basketball between a top five guy and a mid-first rounder.


His game most reminds me of Hurley, which I realize is high praise. His game seems more polished/mature at this point than Hurley's was as a frosh and he's definitely stronger physically than Hurley was, but he's not as quick as Hurley (whose quickness was really underrated).

Hurley was also an outstanding defender, which a lot of people seem to forget. I admit there are similarities in their style but don't think Tyus is at the Bobby Hurley level just yet.


You can make that judgment based on those two games? I could have done the same with some of Parker's games.

Saying he was top five was a stretch to begin with, supposedly based on scouts' comments to guys like Chad Ford. So it's not my judgment that matters -- it's the scouts' and GMs' -- and since 25% of Justise's college games so far have arguably been duds (2 of 8, and the most recent two at that), at least on offense, I feel comfortable believing that whatever scouts said he was top five material are probably wavering right now.

[Kedsy]

These stats are truly insane. The team as a whole has a 2-1 (very slightly better than 2-1, actually--2.027 to 1) assist to turnover ratio on the year. Rasheed is at 2.29 to 1 and Quinn at 3.62 to 1. But 46 to 8-- 5.75 assists for every turnover--that is beyond ridiculous.

At this point in 2009-10, Jon Scheyer's a/to was 42 to 5, or 8.4 assists for every turnover, so perhaps Tyus's performance is just ridiculous, as opposed to "beyond ridiculous." ;)

[Kedsy]

Check out Grayson Allen's reaction on the bench. So much for the he may transfer rumors

Are those rumors really out there? In pre-season interviews, Grayson said Duke was his dream school and seemed to understand that he might not get big minutes right away. Doesn't seem like the kind of kid who would bail after one season of disappointing playing time.

[CDu]

Yeah, but if he consistently throws 95, they'd probably say, "he has the potential to get up to 98 as his body matures." Big difference in the baseball world from a guy who has the tools to get up to 95, because a lot of guys can hit 95 occasionally while not so many can get up to 98. Probably similar to the difference in basketball between a top five guy and a mid-first rounder.



Hurley was also an outstanding defender, which a lot of people seem to forget. I admit there are similarities in their style but don't think Tyus is at the Bobby Hurley level just yet.



Saying he was top five was a stretch to begin with, supposedly based on scouts' comments to guys like Chad Ford. So it's not my judgment that matters -- it's the scouts' and GMs' -- and since 25% of Justise's college games so far have arguably been duds (2 of 8, and the most recent two at that), at least on offense, I feel comfortable believing that whatever scouts said he was top five material are probably wavering right now.

I think the baseball analogy still holds. If he has shown flashes for the diverse offensive game, scouts will say he will eventually do it consistently and better.

And I never said Jones was at Hurley's level - just that Jones's game reminds me most of Hurley among our prior guards. There are clearly differences. Hurley was sloppier with the ball as a frosh and WAY less strong. And I think you are remembering the defensive skills of upperclassman Hurley rather than freshman Hurley. My memory of Hurley was that as a frosh he was not strong defensively. If we compare Jones to Hurley's entire career, obviously that isn't close.

[ncexnyc]

I'll add that Huck was out coached last night. Further he rotates his players way too much. UNC is not UK and doesn't have the talent to play players 9-12 a total of 22 minutes in a close game.

Hmmm, that's been Huck's M.O. the whole time he's been at UNC. He'll eventually thin things out, he always does. Out coached? Well I've never seen anyone on this board say he was a great, let alone solid in game coach so I'll definitely agree with you on that point.

[MCFinARL]

At this point in 2009-10, Jon Scheyer's a/to was 42 to 5, or 8.4 assists for every turnover, so perhaps Tyus's performance is just ridiculous, as opposed to "beyond ridiculous." ;)

Fair enough. I remembered Scheyer's stats were good that year, but I didn't remember that he had gotten off to that good a start. Of course, since Tyus is only a freshman, what would be merely ridiculous were he a senior like Scheyer that season could, still, be beyond ridiculous.... ;) I jest, I jest...

[CDu]

Fair enough. I remembered Scheyer's stats were good that year, but I didn't remember that he had gotten off to that good a start. Of course, since Tyus is only a freshman, what would be merely ridiculous were he a senior like Scheyer that season could, still, be beyond ridiculous.... ;) I jest, I jest...

I know you said this in jest, but there is a kernel of truth here. We are talking about a freshman. Look back at the guys we are discussing: Hurley was a turnover machine with an unrefined scoring game, but he benefited from having a talented veteran group around him; JWill was an inconsistent player who also struggled with turnovers. Duhon wasn't a starter this early and was a fifth option once he did start. Jones is taking a leading role as a freshman, and he is showing unbelievable poise in doing so.

[Kedsy]

I think the baseball analogy still holds. If he has shown flashes for the diverse offensive game, scouts will say he will eventually do it consistently and better.

I think it holds, too, but unless it's a historically weak draft, I can't see a team spending a top five pick on a guy who might (or might not) eventually do something. Or at least not the things Justise might (or might not) eventually do, as distinguished from the latent abilities of young 7-footers, who are often drafted on potential (sometimes with disastrous results for the drafting team). For a 6'6" guy with more potential than skills, I can see late lottery, possibly even mid-lottery, depending on circumstances, but not top five.

You probably have more NBA knowledge than I do -- how many guys with the combination Justise's size, potential, and current abilities have been drafted top five?


And I never said Jones was at Hurley's level - just that Jones's game reminds me most of Hurley among our prior guards. There are clearly differences. Hurley was sloppier with the ball as a frosh and WAY less strong. And Ai think you are remembering the defensive skills of upperclassman Hurley rather than freshman Hurley. My memory of Hurley was that as a frosh he was not strong defensively.

I wasn't suggesting you said that (though someone earlier in the thread (not you) suggested Tyus was behind only Kyrie on the pantheon of Duke point guards). I also agree Bobby's and Tyus's games seem similar. My memory isn't good enough to distinguish between the defensive abilities of upperclassman Hurley vs. freshman Hurley. My guess is even freshman Hurley was significantly better on the defensive end than Tyus Jones, in large part because of Hurley's underrated quickness (as you pointed out).

[ACCBBallFan]

Winslow had a few pretty bad turnovers, but aside from a couple of badly timed gambles for steals, he was able to basically shut down Dekker and Hayes from doing anything offensively. He's the single biggest reason for our improved defense, Sulaimon and Okafor are tied for second.

Also, huge props to Rasheed Sulaimon. He and Cook have been incredible this year in reduced roles. Both of them are so much better then they were last year, and it's a really underrated reason why we're so good right now. Sulaimon probably hit the most "lucky shots" of anyone last night, but his defense and emotion were just as important to this win. He was great. On don't forget how Justise got into Duje Dukan's head on two consecutive turnovers and how Sheed forced Jackson to travel after the inbound following monster dunk by Winslow, both huge momentum makers.

[Wander]

You probably have more NBA knowledge than I do -- how many guys with the combination Justise's size, potential, and current abilities have been drafted top five?


James Harden went 3rd. Of course, the obvious rebuke is that Harden was a much better scorer in college than Winslow. Then again, maybe Winslow would up his PPG by a lot if he played for an Arizona State instead of a Duke, and Justise's defense is superior. But someone on one of the games threw this comparison out there last night and I like it, and it at least works for the size/potential part (it's an optimistic comparison overall, of course).

[revmel53]

For my money, William Avery, in his short time was among the best overall point guards we've ever had.

[CDu]

I think it holds, too, but unless it's a historically weak draft, I can't see a team spending a top five pick on a guy who might (or might not) eventually do something. Or at least not the things Justise might (or might not) eventually do, as distinguished from the latent abilities of young 7-footers, who are often drafted on potential (sometimes with disastrous results for the drafting team). For a 6'6" guy with more potential than skills, I can see late lottery, possibly even mid-lottery, depending on circumstances, but not top five.

You probably have more NBA knowledge than I do -- how many guys with the combination Justise's size, potential, and current abilities have been drafted top five?

I don't presume to have more NBA knowledge, but the challenge as you know is that it's hard to find good comps. The easiest reference is Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. MKG may even now be less skilled than Winslow, but he went #2 as a frosh in a supposedly strong class based largely on being a really good defender and decent scorer and rebounder. It didn't hurt that he won a title, but he was of similar size and athleticism (Winslow may be a bit more athletic) and had a somewhat similar set of skills/strengths. Oladipo had a similar skillset and not too disimilar build and somehow convinced folks he could be a combo guard, and he went #2. Wade is, I think, the closest comp in terms of physical tools and skill set (at the time he went pro) and went #5 in arguably the best draft class since the lottery started, but it is hard to compare because Wade was a big fish in a small pond (Marquette was just a plucky school in the C-USA back then) who led a team to the Final Four. Brad Beal may be another strong comp in size, athleticism, and skill set, and he went #4 in a weaker class.

None of those are perfect comps for some of the reasons I mentioned. It all depends on teams' needs and availability of players of similar skills. But I don't think it's at all unheard of for a guy like Winslow to go top-5.


I wasn't suggesting you said that (though someone earlier in the thread (not you) suggested Tyus was behind only Kyrie on the pantheon of Duke point guards). I also agree Bobby's and Tyus's games seem similar. My memory isn't good enough to distinguish between the defensive abilities of upperclassman Hurley vs. freshman Hurley. My guess is even freshman Hurley was significantly better on the defensive end than Tyus Jones, in large part because of Hurley's underrated quickness (as you pointed out).

Fair enough. Hurley probably was still better defensively as a frosh than Jones, but I do think Jones is better than freshman Hurley offensively. Whether or not Jones ever gets to where Hurley eventually got offensively definitely remains to be seen.

[BobbyFan]

Justise is an elite defender and an amorphous puzzle piece that can fit into myriad situations on the defensive side of the court. Coach K mentioned in his press conference that Justise's ability to slide to the 4 spot was a huge boon for our end of game scenario when Jah picked up his fourth foul late.

I'll stand by my comment though, that he has taken a step back. I don't know if it's a matter of Justise ramping up the aggressiveness or what, but he has been on the receiving end of some unfortunate foul calls in the last two games. Just as Coach K suggested after the Army game that Jah needs to learn to sell a foul better, Justise needs to learn what is and what is not going to be called, on the offensive and on the defensive end. He is not overrated, but his rawness might need some fine tuning. If he is not our best, he is at the least our most versatile defender. I think it's possible to take a step back and still play 32 minutes, as a B level game from Justise still lends value to the overall defense, which was amazing.

Raw is a fair quality to ascribe to Justise. Offensively he is aggressive and a scorer, both in mentality and ability, which is a good complement to the makeup of this team. Accordingly, though, his shot selection can stand to improve, as he is near the bottom of the team in FG%. He still is finding his role in this offense, particularly in the half court. He's obviously an excellent man defender. The help defense has room for improvement, although it's certainly not a negative.




In his potential defense, it is possible that RichardJackson199 is young enough to have never actually seen Hurley play. Remember most of the freshman class were born in 1996.

It's bothering me that fairly soon, Duke players will be younger than posts I have made on usenet, the Juliovision site, etc.



Best part of the game - it's debateable, but I'll go with Quinn Cook face after that sick assist jam to Jah.

Quinn's got that scowl down pretty good - it's right up there with Roshown McLeod's. But he might have some work to do to reach Webber's level.

[ACCBBallFan]

Great write up Kaze. The bolded line is, IMO, the key to our success. Tyus is arguably one of the best, if not the best, passers in the country. As you said, he has this incredible instinct to get the ball where it needs to go. But why I think this is so much truer now is that Tyus has proven that he can score against elite competition. MSU and UW aren't push-overs but Tyus made them look silly. Putting the ball in his hands leads to good things.

Also, I really like the Tyus-Cook-Sulaimon-Winslow-Okafor line-up. For me, it's the most interesting line-up offensively. That line-up has 4 legit 3pt shooters, 2 rebounders, 4 dribble-drive players, 1 amazing post player, and solid D. You give up size and rebounding, but you gain so much mobility. I expect to see that line-up plenty in close games.

Thanks to Neals384, we now know that the magic combination with Justise Winslow at the 4 is when also with Tyus and Quinn, except for the very last row with Amile at the 5:

'+/- Mins Per 40 Times Lineup

'+/- Mins Per 40 Times Lineup
14 25:54 21.60 10 Okafor Winslow M.Jones Cook T.Jones
06 10:41 22.50 7 Okafor Winslow Sulaimon Cook T.Jones
05 3:06 64.50 1 Okafor Winslow Cook Allen T.Jones
03 1:42 70.60 1 Okafor Winslow M.Jones Allen T.Jones
00 1:06 00.00 1 Okafor Winslow M.Jones Sulaimon Allen
(3) 3:55 (30.60) 4 Okafor Winslow M.Jones Sulaimon T.Jones
(5) 8:47 (22.80) 4 Okafor Winslow M.Jones Sulaimon Cook

06 3:37 66.40 1 Plumlee Winslow M.Jones Cook T.Jones
03 1:44 69.20 2 Plumlee Winslow M.Jones Sulaimon T.Jones
00 0:30 00.00 1 Plumlee Winslow M.Jones Allen T.Jones
(1) 9:49 (4.10) 6 Plumlee Winslow M.Jones Sulaimon Cook
(1) 1:32 (26.10) 1 Plumlee Winslow Sulaimon Cook Allen

02 4:08 19.40 4 Jefferson Winslow Sulaimon Cook T.Jones
(3) 1:39 (72.70) 2 Jefferson Winslow M.Jones Sulaimon T.Jones
(6) 3:31 (68.20) 3 Jefferson Winslow M.Jones Cook T.Jones

Seems effectiveness of Jutise at 4 has both + and - results regardless of who the SF is, Sheed or Matt but always effectice with either big Jah or MP3 as long as with both Quinn and Tyus.

[fuse]

Lots of great commentary, I want to add on about Rasheed.

On the biggest stage so far this season, he found the flow / rhythm to maximize his role for the team's benefit.

There were two or three times during the game I felt like I could see the wheels turning in his head, resist the urge to put his head down and drive, and either make the pass or a better decision / better shot.

I hope last night's Sheed is who we see show up for the rest of the season.

I've said it before, this team is fun to watch! What a luxury to have a team full of guys ready to step up and who really seem to have fantastic chemistry.

[ACCBBallFan]

...

Truly, it's Matt's driving ability that has really impressed me; he's finished off a number of extremely athletic moves this season, and I love the fact that he's willing to put the ball on the floor like that and has the body control to get good shots. Me too, I had erroneously been thinking of Matt as only an open shooter and a back door cut guy, but noticed his take it to the hoop ability last couple of games.

[ACCBBallFan]

I don't wish to hijack a Duke post game thread so I'm out after this response.

Roy has demonstrated at times to be a very good recruiter, but his weaknesses as a coach have been highly exposed since his recruiting success has been waning. His coaching has been inflexible in response to the differing mix and styles of talent. Lack of player effort has been a recurring theme of yours for several seasons, but that is one of the primary responsibilities of a coach in judging talent and motivating players once on campus.

Roy often disparages his players in public after a loss. That is inexcusable behavior for a so called "very good"
coach.



UNC is not that young by today's standards. While the bench is youthful, the starters are 3 juniors, a soph. and a frosh. Maybe they will come around but after getting pummeled by Kentucky, UNC will have 3 losses and a coach who I believe will have lost the respect of players who are tired of reading in public that it is all their fault.
UNC also plays tOSU who did not look so hot against Lviile, but is a toss up vs. UNC

[ACCBBallFan]

Are those rumors really out there? In pre-season interviews, Grayson said Duke was his dream school and seemed to understand that he might not get big minutes right away. Doesn't seem like the kind of kid who would bail after one season of disappointing playing time.No, just tweaking the Semi and Grayson need to play more crowd

Yet another difference in the rivalry fan bases with UNC fans saying ole Roy plays the end of the bench too much and Duke fans complaining about players 9-10 PT regardless of which year, and then the inevitable transfer rumors.

[Tripping William]

Loving this today!

http://instagram.com/p/wND_NrgdXK/

[OldPhiKap]

Lots of great commentary, I want to add on about Rasheed.

On the biggest stage so far this season, he found the flow / rhythm to maximize his role for the team's benefit.

There were two or three times during the game I felt like I could see the wheels turning in his head, resist the urge to put his head down and drive, and either make the pass or a better decision / better shot.

I hope last night's Sheed is who we see show up for the rest of the season.

I've said it before, this team is fun to watch! What a luxury to have a team full of guys ready to step up and who really seem to have fantastic chemistry.

Watch Sheed's interview on BlueDevilNetwork at GoDuke.com. Tell me that he is not the model of a team player. Kid is SOLID.

[Peruser]

I want to take the occasion of this great victory to come out from behind the curtain and express appreciation to all of you for the entertainment and education about the game that I have enjoyed over many years. I went to a D2 school and somehow latched on to Duke as a fan back in 1979 when I started following college hoops. Obviously one of the best decisions I could have made. The combination of expertise and humor on this site is extraordinary. Keep up the good work.
Sporks to everyone!

[weezie]

I want to take the occasion of this great victory to come out from behind the curtain and express appreciation to all of you for the entertainment and education about the game that I have enjoyed over many years. I went to a D2 school and somehow latched on to Duke as a fan back in 1979 when I started following college hoops. Obviously one of the best decisions I could have made. The combination of expertise and humor on this site is extraordinary. Keep up the good work.
Sporks to everyone!


You sir, are most welcome to hang out here in the nut bin. :cool:

[superdave]

Tokoto is up/down and playing too measured and reserved for his skills. He's got to get aggressive.

Something's gotta give with Johnson mentally, he's too talented to play this bad.

It's early and I've seen this movie before. This team has the ability to play very well, they just have not been doing it.

Biggest issue...toughness.

I saw Roy's post game and somebody asked him how do you coach toughness?

Roy said, "we're gonna find out".

I wouldn't write UNC off just yet.



Step 1: Roy has the guys run until everyone throws up.

Step 2: Roy has the managers take the rims off for a practice.

Step 3: Roy gives up because that didn't work.

Step 4: Toughness!

[Turk]

Commentary from Grantland's Mark Titus:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we-went-there-wisconsin-duke-at-the-kohl-center-jahlil-okafor-sam-dekker-frank-kaminsky-tyus-jones-ncaa-basketball/

Money quote:


"Do you realize what the Blue Devils just did? Only three programs in America have a better home winning percentage over the last 14 years than Wisconsin. Yet Duke went into the Kohl Center with a bunch of freshmen, got virtually nothing from future lottery pick Justise Winslow, its All-American big man Okafor dealt with foul trouble all night, Wisconsin’s Traevon Jackson scored his career high, and Duke still beat the second-ranked team in the nation by double digits. "

But wait, there's more! Alas, superstition, modesty, and risk of copyright violations prevent me from expanding the quote. You'll have to take the clickbait (or not). Just scroll to the end.

Like many of us, Titus also noted the automatic switching and how it messed up Wisky. I saw a few times that Duke would rebalance and re-switch away from the ball. If there was a pick, Duke switched, and if the ball moved to the other side, Duke would solve the big-little mismatch by having a weakside big switch back onto the Wisky big, depending on where he rolled. Duke's defenders would not be back on their original guys, but at least it was big-big and guard-guard. Obviously, it speaks to the versatility of this year's team, also noted upthread.

Did anyone notice how red Coach K's cheekbones were (even in pregame, before yelling at refs or players)? I watched with a buddy (NOT a Duke fan); he guessed K either got into a bar fight or was windburned from ice fishing out on the lake. (HDTV closeups are usually not our friends).

[superdave]

Anyone else feel they were watching a junior version of Team USA against a Euro team? I thought the styles of play reinforced the analogy. It was speed and defense against size and shooting -- and while speed kills, great defense can stop good shooting.

CDu makes the fair point that a ten-point win is not too impressive when you shoot 65 percent. OTOH we got a lot of open looks on the outside through ball movement and the gravitational force of Okafor. Also, Justise will be more of a scorer in future contests -- he was a bit out of sync, but clearly a major talent. We will get more points in transition in other games.

Henderson commented on the low number of assists, which I attribute to dribble penetration. The driver got to finish because Wisconsin was glued to Okafor.

What was most impressive about the shooting/ scoring last night is that Duke got to any spot on the floor they wanted. Yes they hit a better percentage than normal but their athleticism and savvy made it seem effortless vs a veteran team. That to me is more significant than any discussion of luck. These kids made their breaks. At Wisconsin.

[Henderson]

K would never say it, but I will: He outcoached Bo Ryan last night, and it wasn't close. K threw the pick-switches at Wisconsin early, and it bamboozled the Badgers. They kept not figuring it out, so K stuck with it (mostly). And Bo Ryan still kept not figuring it out.

Ryan mentioned that in his post-game presser as a factor, and he said they had prepped for it. But I don't think they did. I think it caught them unprepared, and that preparation and on-court coaching by our man may have been outcome-determinative in this game.

Then there's Roy. Whose dadgum players just don't do things right.

[DevilYouthCoach]

I was trying to remember -- and I cannot -- but I was trying to recall another Duke team that was so darn beautiful to watch -- and so consistently excellent as this team showed last night at Wisconson. I felt like they could have beaten anyone last night! Maybe the 2001 team, at times. We have so many green players!

[roywhite]

James Harden went 3rd. Of course, the obvious rebuke is that Harden was a much better scorer in college than Winslow. Then again, maybe Winslow would up his PPG by a lot if he played for an Arizona State instead of a Duke, and Justise's defense is superior. But someone on one of the games threw this comparison out there last night and I like it, and it at least works for the size/potential part (it's an optimistic comparison overall, of course).

James Harden's college stats at Arizona State (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1.html)

Yeah, in two years total, Harden averaged 19.0 pts/game and had a FG% of 50.6.

We've discussed this some, but I think Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is a good comp for Justise.

MKG averaged 11.9 pts and 7.4 rebs/game in his 1 season at Kentucky, and was a major contributor to a national championship; he was taken 2nd overall in the NBA Draft (though plenty of people now think that was too high).

[Henderson]

Henderson commented on the low number of assists, which I attribute to dribble penetration. The driver got to finish because Wisconsin was glued to Okafor.

Dribble penetration yes, but also post moves and run-outs. There was a lot of all three, each of which contributed to the below-average APG stat. I was hoping offensive rebounding might have been a factor in that too, but there weren't that many unmade baskets. So we had 3.

If this team wants to shoot 65% from the floor and rack 11 assists per night, I'm OK.

[Indoor66]

Or quieter, as the case may be.

Was the game at the Dump? I didn't know....:cool:

[subzero02]

Commentary from Grantland's Mark Titus:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we-went-there-wisconsin-duke-at-the-kohl-center-jahlil-okafor-sam-dekker-frank-kaminsky-tyus-jones-ncaa-basketball/

Money quote:


"Do you realize what the Blue Devils just did? Only three programs in America have a better home winning percentage over the last 14 years than Wisconsin. Yet Duke went into the Kohl Center with a bunch of freshmen, got virtually nothing from future lottery pick Justise Winslow, its All-American big man Okafor dealt with foul trouble all night, Wisconsin’s Traevon Jackson scored his career high, and Duke still beat the second-ranked team in the nation by double digits. "

But wait, there's more! Alas, superstition, modesty, and risk of copyright violations prevent me from expanding the quote. You'll have to take the clickbait (or not). Just scroll to the end.

Like many of us, Titus also noted the automatic switching and how it messed up Wisky. I saw a few times that Duke would rebalance and re-switch away from the ball. If there was a pick, Duke switched, and if the ball moved to the other side, Duke would solve the big-little mismatch by having a weakside big switch back onto the Wisky big, depending on where he rolled. Duke's defenders would not be back on their original guys, but at least it was big-big and guard-guard. Obviously, it speaks to the versatility of this year's team, also noted upthread.

Did anyone notice how red Coach K's cheekbones were (even in pregame, before yelling at refs or players)? I watched with a buddy (NOT a Duke fan); he guessed K either got into a bar fight or was windburned from ice fishing out on the lake. (HDTV closeups are usually not our friends).

I distinctly remember Tyus guarding Kaminsky in the second half after a switch and being amazed it didn't result in a dunk or a foul or both...

[Richard Berg]

James Harden's college stats at Arizona State (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1.html)

Yeah, in two years total, Harden averaged 19.0 pts/game and had a FG% of 50.6.

We've discussed this some, but I think Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is a good comp for Justise.

MKG averaged 11.9 pts and 7.4 rebs/game in his 1 season at Kentucky, and was a major contributor to a national championship; he was taken 2nd overall in the NBA Draft (though plenty of people now think that was too high).

I don't watch Kentucky or Charlotte, but am a lifelong Spurs fan. How about Kawhi Leonard as a comp? College stats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawhi_Leonard#College_career

In retrospect, getting drafted #15 was too low, but without RC Buford's keen eye I find it hard to imagine burning a top 10 pick on him. Justise will probably be similar, unless he shows us another gear under the March spotlight (a la DWade, or Derrick Williams in 2011).

[CDu]

James Harden's college stats at Arizona State (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/james-harden-1.html)

Yeah, in two years total, Harden averaged 19.0 pts/game and had a FG% of 50.6.

We've discussed this some, but I think Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is a good comp for Justise.

MKG averaged 11.9 pts and 7.4 rebs/game in his 1 season at Kentucky, and was a major contributor to a national championship; he was taken 2nd overall in the NBA Draft (though plenty of people now think that was too high).


I don't watch Kentucky or Charlotte, but am a lifelong Spurs fan. How about Kawhi Leonard as a comp? College stats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawhi_Leonard#College_career

In retrospect, getting drafted #15 was too low, but without RC Buford's keen eye I find it hard to imagine burning a top 10 pick on him. Justise will probably be similar, unless he shows us another gear under the March spotlight (a la DWade, or Derrick Williams in 2011).

I think Winslow is a cross between MKG/Leonard and Brad Beal. The breakdown in comp with MKG and Leonard is that Winslow is more skilled offensively than either of those guys. He is also a bit smaller. Leonard also differs in that he was a smaller conference guy (harder for those guys to jump up the draft board). Winslow's skills remind me more of Beal's skills. Of course Winslow is a bit bigger and more physical than Beal, which is a key difference. Again, this refers only to these players coming out of college. Both Leonard and Beal have really improved as shooters in the NBA.

[yancem]

The 3 freshman have been amazing. There really isn't any discussion regarding that.

The upperclassmen to me, have been even more impressive. Not because they are more talented (TJ, the Oak, and Mr. Swiss Army Knife are the three most talented players), but because of how they have embraced their role. And no player has had to accept more roles than Sualimon.

During Sulaimon's freshman year, he was our best off-the-dribble player. He was the only player who could break down a defense. And he was really solid at it. He shot 42% from the floor, 37% from 3-pt land, averaged 11.6 ppg with 3.4 rpg and 1.9 apg. For a freshman. Austin Rivers averaged 15.5/3.4/2.1. Austin Rivers was THE go to player in '11-'12; Sulaimon was the 3rd/4th option at best during his freshman year (this isn't a shot at Rivers at all but rather an amazement at Sulaimon's freshman year). Sulaimon was also our best on-ball defender his freshman year, taking some heat off of Cook and/or Curry. To sum up, many of us thought Sulaimon was going to be the next big thing at Duke.

Sulaimon's sophomore year was an interesting one. It's said he came into the season out of shape. We all know the dog-house stories, that refusal to buy into a lesser role, the immaturity... but I see it slightly differently. Sulaimon's freshman year was incredible. Everyone - from active posters to the media to scouts - wanted to see this kid develop into a star. But two players came into Duke in the 2013-2014 season with more talent. Coach K said in the beginning of the year that the two best players were "Hood and Parker". Can you imagine the psyche of a young player who is anointed the future of Duke basketball to not have your coach name you as star player from Day 1? I don't fault Coach K, as Hood and Parker were more talented than Sulaimon and Sulaimon supposedly had come into the season out of shape, but I can understand Sulaimon's mentality. Sulking may not the most mature response, but he was 19 (for the record, Tyus isn't 18. He's got reverse Greg-Oden-Syndrome. I'm convinced Tyus is a 34-year old man in a 18-year old body). Also, Sulaimon's best offensive traits - taking the ball to the hoop, 3pt shooting, mid-range jumpers - were performed better by Hood and Parker. Sulaimon's defense - amazing during his freshman year - disappeared. Given that no one played defense last year, it's not surprising that Sulaimon didn't stress this trait. Sulaimon's role went from "future of Duke basketball" to "third banana" in less than a year.

Sulaimon's junior year is even more interesting. He - along with Matt Jones - are the super subs. Sulaimon can play 1-3 and Jones can play the 2-3, so they provide relief for our efficient starting backcourt. Sulaimon's role this year looks to be "offensive punch off the bench" coupled with "lock-down defender". Winslow looks to be our best defender overall, but Sulaimon looks to be our best on-ball defender. His D on Wisconsin was a thing of beauty, a "throwback", if you will, to his freshman year. Sulaimon looks happier, more content, and his talent is still out there for the world (okay, the US) to see. I like the role of Sulaimon as the super-sub. On this team, I still think he's the best at getting to the rim, but his lack of finishing needs to get better.

It's been an interesting journey for Sulaimon: from man-off-the-dribble to future-of-Duke-basketball to third-banana to super-sub. For a man who's last name means "Man of Peace", I really hope that Sulaimon has found his peace within this role.

When I was home in Durham for Thanksgiving I read an interesting article about the early part of Ginobili's career in San Antonio and how his freelance style clashed with Popovich's coaching strict coaching style. It took a while for Popovich to learn to trust Ginobili and for Ginobili to learn when to stick to the plan and when to go off script. Looking at Sulaimon and his Sophomore and now junior years, I see some similarities. Sulaimon is vary talented but last year didn't really fit with the rest of the team (or maybe just Parker and Hood) and he struggled to find his role. This year, like Ginobili, he has excepted coming of the bench to add that needed scoring punch and defensive energy. It would seem that as good/talented as a guy can be, sometimes the best role for them is as the 6th man. It has worked very well for Ginobili in San Antonio for years and it is looking like it may be working for Sulaimon this year.

As for the game, great win but I also agree with some of the post above about Dukes hot shooting and it's impact on the outcome. I don't think that it is realistic to think that we can shoot that well every game, especially against a team like Wisconsin. I think the bigger question though if we were to run into them again in March is how will the adjust to our defense and would the switching scheme work a a second time? I think we really caught them off guard defensively and they couldn't make the necessary adjustments on the fly but give Bo Ryan time to game plan against it and he will find a way to make better use of the mismatches. I'm sure that K also knows this and would game plan slightly differently or at least throw in some wrinkles so it would be a very interesting rematch. But not one that I would necessarily look forward too.

[MCFinARL]

Count the number of times Sheed says "Proud" in his post-game interview

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?id=3579402&db_oem_id=4200

Does not seem jealous at all of notoriety being given to the 3 frosh, in contrast to point you made about last year with Jabari Parker and Rodney Hood.

Maturity.


Watch Sheed's interview on BlueDevilNetwork at GoDuke.com. Tell me that he is not the model of a team player. Kid is SOLID.

Putting both of these posts together to give everyone easy access to the link. Agree completely with OldPhiKap; this is a must watch and Sheed is terrific.

[OldPhiKap]

Putting both of these posts together to give everyone easy access to the link. Agree completely with OldPhiKap; this is a must watch and Sheed is terrific.

You can just see in his face how proud he is of what the team accomplished, and how well the freshmen play. Worth three minutes of your time.

[sagegrouse]

You can just see in his face how proud he is of what the team accomplished, and how well the freshmen play. Worth three minutes of your time.

Hah!! As quoted on IC:


David Glenn Show @DavidGlennShow · 23h 23 hours ago

DG: "Duke's FRESHMEN showed more IQ/toughness/intensity ON THE ROAD vs TOP-5 foe than Carolina's VETERANS showed at HOME vs UNRANKED. Wow."

[Edouble]

A maximum of two losses? We were talking about bold predictions in another thread, but this is what I call bold.

Thanks for calling me out on that. Seriously. I am glad that someone noticed my bold prediction.

I think this is a potentially special team. Not only special, but one that is built not to lose games. I think we're going to be in all of the games that we play b/c of our defense, and with so many guys (6-7) capable of scoring 20 on any given night, I think we'll always have a hot hand to go to or a mismatch of some kind. Hence, I see us having a max of two losses. I'm not saying undefeated, because I think the chances of that are beyond slim, but I am comfortable with putting myself out there and saying that we'll max out at two losses.

I have actually been thinking that in a way, I am looking forward to our first loss, only because I am really curious to see what transpires to make it happen. A really bead shooting night? A night where we can't get to the line? Foul trouble? At this point, I don't see what the obvious way is to beat this team, which is exciting!

[DukieInKansas]

Regarding the front page article by Al Featherston: I questioned the 3rd win against top 5 "fact" when it was first stated on air but then it was restated clarifying that it was the 3rd win against a top 5 team when BOTH teams were in the top 5. The ESPN story online has this on the right side of the page: "Coach K has 991 career wins but only three have come on the road in a Top-5 non-conference matchup. Each of the previous 2 wins came in a season in which the Blue Devils reached the title game, including their 1992 championship." Here is the link: http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587822

Still a pretty meaningless "fact" and I'm not sure how Duke does in comparison to other teams. The way it was stated makes it sound like it is a bad thing but since it doesn't look at how other teams have done in similar circumstances, it might really be a terrific thing. As Mr. Featherston indicates, adding context changes the "fact" and, even with the both being Top 5 limitation, I bet Coach K and Duke still look pretty good. And why would conference road wins against Top 5 foes not be as impressive as non-conference Top 5 foes?

[OldPhiKap]

Regarding the front page article by Al Featherston: I questioned the 3rd win against top 5 "fact" when it was first stated on air but then it was restated clarifying that it was the 3rd win against a top 5 team when BOTH teams were in the top 5. The ESPN story online has this on the right side of the page: "Coach K has 991 career wins but only three have come on the road in a Top-5 non-conference matchup. Each of the previous 2 wins came in a season in which the Blue Devils reached the title game, including their 1992 championship." Here is the link: http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587822

Still a pretty meaningless "fact" and I'm not sure how Duke does in comparison to other teams. The way it was stated makes it sound like it is a bad thing but since it doesn't look at how other teams have done in similar circumstances, it might really be a terrific thing. As Mr. Featherston indicates, adding context changes the "fact" and, even with the both being Top 5 limitation, I bet Coach K and Duke still look pretty good. And why would conference road wins against Top 5 foes not be as impressive as non-conference Top 5 foes?

So you realize that, even though Coach K has 991 wins, he has NEVER won a game while wearing flip-flops and sporting dreadlocks? Phht. Without looking, I bet Bobby Knight and Dean both did it multiple times.

[Billy Dat]

Putting both of these posts together to give everyone easy access to the link. Agree completely with OldPhiKap; this is a must watch and Sheed is terrific.

Thanks to everyone pointing to this interview and for the very insightful Rasheed analysis. During the game, I assume it was Bilas making the point, about Quinn Cook, that NBA guys notice when a guy with the talent to play in the NBA also shows an ability to put his ego aside, gel with equally/more talented players and embrace his role. Those types of guys are rare because, as flyingdutch expanded upon, its tough to go from being "the man" and "the next big thing" to a 6th man playing a more narrowly defined role. But, there are a lot of different paths to the NBA. In the one and done era that Duke now fully participates in, guys like Quinn and Rasheed and Matt Jones and Amile can hopefully embrace that while their one-and-done supernova teammates reduce them to secondary offensive roles or even "off the bench" roles, the keep a bright hot spotlight on the program, especially NBA scouts attending games. If they play excellent defense (half of the game, after all) and "grow" over 3-4 years into tough poised smart role players who manage to maintain a healthy "I can play this game" ego, as long as they have the NBA bona fides of size, speed, quickness, skill, etc., then they will get their chance and maybe be more ready for that chance - not so much from the traditional "getting better and more mature every year" perspective - although that is important - but more from the "I am a seasoned player ready to embrace a role player role because I am now comfortable with who I am and what i can do" perspective.

[ACCBBallFan]

I was trying to remember -- and I cannot -- but I was trying to recall another Duke team that was so darn beautiful to watch -- and so consistently excellent as this team showed last night at Wisconson. I felt like they could have beaten anyone last night! Maybe the 2001 team, at times. We have so many green players!The games before Kyrie has his injury weren't bad either, not so much his NCAAT appearance where early season chemistry was not there.

[DukieInKansas]

So you realize that, even though Coach K has 991 wins, he has NEVER won a game while wearing flip-flops and sporting dreadlocks? Phht. Without looking, I bet Bobby Knight and Dean both did it multiple times.

(Tried but I couldn't spork you.)

Maybe he will don that look for #1,000! I decided during the World Series that someone is paid a large sum to come up with some of these ridiculous "facts". My favorite was Game 4 - it was the first time both starting pitcher's last names started with V. (Vargas & Vogelsong)

I think the ESPN "fact" should be considered with this quote: "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." ~Aaron Levenstein

[kAzE]

I think Winslow is a cross between MKG/Leonard and Brad Beal. The breakdown in comp with MKG and Leonard is that Winslow is more skilled offensively than either of those guys. He is also a bit smaller. Leonard also differs in that he was a smaller conference guy (harder for those guys to jump up the draft board). Winslow's skills remind me more of Beal's skills. Of course Winslow is a bit bigger and more physical than Beal, which is a key difference. Again, this refers only to these players coming out of college. Both Leonard and Beal have really improved as shooters in the NBA.

If MKG could shoot 35% from the perimeter, he could possibly be the best of those 3. I don't think #2 was high for him at all. Obviously, in retrospect, he wasn't worth that pick, but that decision was made based on the assumption that he could develop an outside shot. Clearly, it's still a work in progress (but unfortunately, I think his shot is just broken), and it's the one major thing that limits his upside. He's one of the problems with the Hornet's major spacing issues at the moment. Their go-to scorer (Big Al) has no space in the paint because no one on the perimeter in that lineup can shoot. Kemba, Lance, and MKG are all very subpar 3 point shooters. It's a horribly constructed team worthy of being assembled by the master of of terrible personnel decisions: Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

Winslow is clearly not an elite shooter yet, but he has already improved his shot since high school, and I think he's definitely capable of becoming a decent shooter. His allure for NBA GMs is that he has good playmaking skills, he rebounds out of his area, has a great motor, is super physical and tough, with an incredible body . . . he'll be a very, very good NBA player, but I'm not sure he has the offensive talent to be compared to James Harden. I think Winslow will end up being a smaller version of Kawhi, a NBA starter at the 2 or 3, can make plays on both ends of the floor, and could potentially have a chance to make a few All-Star teams. I'll toss another comp in there: Wes Matthews, one of the best 2-way wings in the league right now. He's got a reputation for being a shooter now (but he only shot 34% during his 4 year career at Marquette), so if Winslow can develop his shot to that level, I could see him being a bigger Wes Matthews.

[OldPhiKap]

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."

They are also like bikinis in that you should not go out with just half the facts.

[brevity]

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."


They are also like bikinis in that you should not go out with just half the facts.

Lies, damned lies, and Speedos.

[luvdahops]

I think Winslow is a cross between MKG/Leonard and Brad Beal. The breakdown in comp with MKG and Leonard is that Winslow is more skilled offensively than either of those guys. He is also a bit smaller. Leonard also differs in that he was a smaller conference guy (harder for those guys to jump up the draft board). Winslow's skills remind me more of Beal's skills. Of course Winslow is a bit bigger and more physical than Beal, which is a key difference. Again, this refers only to these players coming out of college. Both Leonard and Beal have really improved as shooters in the NBA.

I would also throw out Jimmy Butler, arguably an even bigger steal than Leonard from the 2011 Draft (#30 pick) and the reigning Eastern Conference Player of the Month, as a comp. Justise is undoubtedly ahead of Butler's pace developmentally, but I could see NBA GMs envisioning Winslow turning into the same sort of 2-way force that Jimmy has become.

[CDu]

I would also throw out Jimmy Butler, arguably an even bigger steal than Leonard from the 2011 Draft (#30 pick) and the reigning Eastern Conference Player of the Month, as a comp. Justise is undoubtedly ahead of Butler's pace developmentally, but I could see NBA GMs envisioning Winslow turning into the same sort of 2-way force that Jimmy has become.

Yeah, now that Butler's offensive game has caught up to his defense, I do think that's an interesting comp. Butler was really raw offensively (pretty much a PF at Marquette) who has improved dramatically on the offensive end. Winslow would do well to match that comp for sure.

[Edouble]

Yeah, now that Butler's offensive game has caught up to his defense, I do think that's an interesting comp. Butler was really raw offensively (pretty much a PF at Marquette) who has improved dramatically on the offensive end. Winslow would do well to match that comp for sure.

Food for thought... Doris Burke used Jimmy Butler as an example of the kind of player that Rasheed Sulaimon could model his game after to find a niche in the league.

I definitely see Justise more than Rasheed as a Jimmy Butler type, just based on size alone. I still see Justise as a possible Ron Artest type.

Sulaimon seems like more of an Eric Snow or Jrue Holiday. I think Sulaimon could play as well as Snow on the defensive end, with Holiday's driving abilities. He doesn't have Holiday's court vision though.

[CDu]

Food for thought... Doris Burke used Jimmy Butler as an example of the kind of player that Rasheed Sulaimon could model his game after to find a niche in the league.

I definitely see Justise more than Rasheed as a Jimmy Butler type, just based on size alone. I still see Justise as a possible Ron Artest type.

Sulaimon seems like more of an Eric Snow or Jrue Holiday. I think Sulaimon could play as well as Snow on the defensive end, with Holiday's driving abilities. He doesn't have Holiday's court vision though.

I agree that Butler isn't a good comp for Sulaimon. Butler is a SF/SG, whereas Sulaimon has combo guard size. I think of Leandro Barbosa when I think of an NBA comp for Sulaimon.

[tele]

Regarding the front page article by Al Featherston: I questioned the 3rd win against top 5 "fact" when it was first stated on air but then it was restated clarifying that it was the 3rd win against a top 5 team when BOTH teams were in the top 5. The ESPN story online has this on the right side of the page: "Coach K has 991 career wins but only three have come on the road in a Top-5 non-conference matchup. Each of the previous 2 wins came in a season in which the Blue Devils reached the title game, including their 1992 championship." Here is the link: http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587822

Still a pretty meaningless "fact" and I'm not sure how Duke does in comparison to other teams. The way it was stated makes it sound like it is a bad thing but since it doesn't look at how other teams have done in similar circumstances, it might really be a terrific thing. As Mr. Featherston indicates, adding context changes the "fact" and, even with the both being Top 5 limitation, I bet Coach K and Duke still look pretty good. And why would conference road wins against Top 5 foes not be as impressive as non-conference Top 5 foes?

I agree with your view of this fact and the thorough and reasoned discussion by Mr. Featherston. My view is espn was engaged in a bit of self promotion by increasing the momentousness of the game, the result, and by some strange media world connectivity, their own coverage of same. I'm content with this because of the result mainly, but if the other team won and they rolled out this or some other odd construct to highlight it, I may not feel so sanguine about it.

[tele]

What a fun game to watch. It was a great college basketball game where the outcome exceeded or at least matched the expectations. Most of the comments have covered everything, so not much to add really. But a couple three things: On the defense, that wasn't the simplest or easiest scheme to play, and having it ready and the players able to execute it, without showing it beforehand...pretty good coaching. Already been mentioned but a couple of times it looked like Duke was in zone defense, the guards even settled back and moved as if in a zone and showed it a bit I think. Maybe this was done to throw a different look at Wisconsin and see how they'd react to a Duke zone, when what they were really getting, seemed to me to be man to man "with zone principles". This being most apparent with the perimeter switching and the front line double/triple teams and "helpside" switches.
2) The freshmen all played great in a tough test but so did the more veteran players. Okafor was as good as advertised except for not staying out of foul trouble which a more veteran player may have done. Winslow I felt was this close ""(very small amount) away from breaking loose. I think a couple borderline calls may have stalled him somewhat, his block, looked clean, and his charge taken may have gotten the benefit of the doubt if he had just sold it a little more ala Battier (like hand position, slow fade then slide etc). But he's going to be really good and fun to watch. And the range of comps for him sort of show how much his game can grow and in what directions, impressive. Tyus can really play, I haven't seen a Duke point guard use the drive and step back three to keep their defender off balance like that since Hurley. And last, I'm not convinced Rasheed is the sixth best player on the team, he may play that role, to help the team chemistry, but I think he may be, right now, the second or third best player. If you can get that level of performance form your sixth man, and foster team chemistry and role acceptance on the part of veterans and extremely talented frosh, then maybe he is the mvp too, in a strictly non traditional sense of course.

[DeBlueDevil]

I agree that Butler isn't a good comp for Sulaimon. Butler is a SF/SG, whereas Sulaimon has combo guard size. I think of Leandro Barbosa when I think of an NBA comp for Sulaimon.

As much as I love all of our guys. I just don't think Rasheed's game translates well to the NBA. If I'm being honest I think if he has any shot being a pro he'll probably have to spend a good amount of time in the D league. This isn't a shot at him, I just feel he'll have to elevate his game a bit before comparing him to Jimmy Butler an arguable all star up to this point this season. Not even sure where to go with the Barbosa comparison.

[CDu]

As much as I love all of our guys. I just don't think Rasheed's game translates well to the NBA. If I'm being honest I think if he has any shot being a pro he'll probably have to spend a good amount of time in the D league. This isn't a shot at him, I just feel he'll have to elevate his game a bit before comparing him to Jimmy Butler an arguable all star up to this point this season. Not even sure where to go with the Barbosa comparison.

I agree that Sulaimon has a tough road to the NBA. I made the Barbosa comp because, like Barbosa, Sulaimon is fast and herky-jerky, with the body of a PG and the skill set of a SG. Sulaimon will not likely ever be the 15-18 ppg scorer that Barbosa was in his Phoenix days nearly a decade ago. But stylistically the two have a lot of similarities.

[Dukehky]

I agree that Sulaimon has a tough road to the NBA. I made the Barbosa comp because, like Barbosa, Sulaimon is fast and herky-jerky, with the body of a PG and the skill set of a SG. Sulaimon will not likely ever be the 15-18 ppg scorer that Barbosa was in his Phoenix days nearly a decade ago. But stylistically the two have a lot of similarities.

I'm not sure I'm with this comparison either, predominately because Barbosa was the fastest guy in the league with the ball in his hands for a really long time. I thought that was where he made his money rather than being a herkey-jerkey creative type scorer.

I've thought about it for a while and I can't think of a good Rasheed comparison, which is kind of cool if you think about it. There is no one in the league with his skill set, not to say that his skill set couldn't make it in the league, but I'm with a lot of people here in that I'm just not sure about his prospects. That could all change if all 3 of our big frosh leave, because Rasheed will probably run point next year in that case. If he can work on his distribution then he will definitely have a shot at the league. He has great length and agility and can play defense. If he can not be so erratic on his drives for the rest of the year, that will improve his stock almost immediately.

During the Wisconsin game, when Rasheed had the ball in the relatively open court, did anyone else find themselves saying "Easy Sheed, Easy, Slow down!"

[Kedsy]

During the Wisconsin game, when Rasheed had the ball in the relatively open court, did anyone else find themselves saying "Easy Sheed, Easy, Slow down!"

Every time he touched the ball I felt this way. It's like he's trying to hard to prove himself, wasting energy with his helter-skelter movements. I believe he'll come around, but he has a long way to go before we can legitimately talk about the NBA for him.

[NSDukeFan]

Every time he touched the ball I felt this way. It's like he's trying to hard to prove himself, wasting energy with his helter-skelter movements. I believe he'll come around, but he has a long way to go before we can legitimately talk about the NBA for him.

I feel like both he and Quinn are underrated in their abilities to take the ball to the hoop because a few turnovers stand out in people's minds.

One other question I had. My impression was that Justise's first travel call where he made a very quick, explosive move all the way to the basket was bogus. I haven't heard any discussion about it, so maybe it was a legitimate call? He sure was fast getting to the basket and getting by his man.

[richardjackson199]

I feel like both he and Quinn are underrated in their abilities to take the ball to the hoop because a few turnovers stand out in people's minds.

One other question I had. My impression was that Justise's first travel call where he made a very quick, explosive move all the way to the basket was bogus. I haven't heard any discussion about it, so maybe it was a legitimate call? He sure was fast getting to the basket and getting by his man.

I watched the Wisconsin game again on Blue Devil Nation (worth every minute). I respect everybody's opinion on this. I agree with NSDukeFan.

In the Wisconsin game, Rasheed was awesome. He took great shots at times when Wisconsin had taken momentum and was making a run. He made most of those shots, reversing that momentum and quieting the crowd - crucial in that environment. His shots came within the flow of the offense. We need quick guys who can slash and make good decisions against tough defenses like Wisconsin. Rasheed hasn't always done that - but he did at Wisconsin. I loved everything he did in that game. I loved his toughness, leadership, and that assassin (we are taking you down) look on his face. He had the determined look of a champion and a winner. He has often shown his ability to make great assists, and I loved his hustle play against Wisconsin with his one-armed shuttle pass to Tyus which led to an important fast break layup. Just my opinion, but I thought he was a consummate teammate who brought us huge needed lifts. His confidence was contagious for his teammates on both ends of the floor. The thought of him playing selfish, hero-ball, look-what-I-can-do NBA never crossed my mind. I'm much more confident he'll be back at Duke next year than our big 3 freshmen studs, so I don't think it was on his mind either. But I'm not a mind reader, so just my 2 cents.

I also agree 100% - Justise was the victim of several awful calls - case in point that travel on his explosive take to the hoop or his skywalker all-ball block. It was like the ref wasn't used to dudes being able to do that stuff, so he just assumed he must have fouled or walked to explode like that.

Loving this team!

[richardjackson199]

What a fun game to watch. It was a great college basketball game where the outcome exceeded or at least matched the expectations. Most of the comments have covered everything, so not much to add really. But a couple three things: On the defense, that wasn't the simplest or easiest scheme to play, and having it ready and the players able to execute it, without showing it beforehand...pretty good coaching. Already been mentioned but a couple of times it looked like Duke was in zone defense, the guards even settled back and moved as if in a zone and showed it a bit I think. Maybe this was done to throw a different look at Wisconsin and see how they'd react to a Duke zone, when what they were really getting, seemed to me to be man to man "with zone principles". This being most apparent with the perimeter switching and the front line double/triple teams and "helpside" switches.
2) The freshmen all played great in a tough test but so did the more veteran players. Okafor was as good as advertised except for not staying out of foul trouble which a more veteran player may have done. Winslow I felt was this close ""(very small amount) away from breaking loose. I think a couple borderline calls may have stalled him somewhat, his block, looked clean, and his charge taken may have gotten the benefit of the doubt if he had just sold it a little more ala Battier (like hand position, slow fade then slide etc). But he's going to be really good and fun to watch. And the range of comps for him sort of show how much his game can grow and in what directions, impressive. Tyus can really play, I haven't seen a Duke point guard use the drive and step back three to keep their defender off balance like that since Hurley. And last, I'm not convinced Rasheed is the sixth best player on the team, he may play that role, to help the team chemistry, but I think he may be, right now, the second or third best player. If you can get that level of performance form your sixth man, and foster team chemistry and role acceptance on the part of veterans and extremely talented frosh, then maybe he is the mvp too, in a strictly non traditional sense of course.

Excellent points.

Whichever assistant coaches or head coaches who researched and prepared that defense should be given a raise. It was evidence in a big game that somebody took a very hard look at our epic defensive failure last year, and did something about it. Stifling a Bo Ryan-coached, offensive ball-movement juggernaut like that at their place was impressive. Most everyone has been talking about our white hot shooting percentage, but getting a young team to play defense like that was just as key. Without the clutch NBA-caliber individual skills (and heart) of Jackson and Kaminsky, we would have blown them out. But last year you would expect stellar NBA-like heroic performances in a losing effort from a Duke team. You would expect lock-down, team-operating-as-one defense from Wisconsin. (What in the hell defense are they in? - it looks like zone, no it looks like they're everywhere. Bilas - they're switching, they're pressuring, and it's driving Wisconsin nuts."

And the scary thing is, we really don't look close to our potential yet. If we keep striving to optimize it, this will be a fun ride.

[richardjackson199]

It's been said upthread by others, but I also want to underscore the collective unselfishness of our players this year.

I believe our ultimate success or failure this year will depend on our ability to maintain and foster that. If guys keep sharing the ball, passing up good shots to get great shots, and play with team success in mind - this team could be one of the great ones.

If as the season progresses they start focusing on how many points they got, how many shots they took, what their NBA stock is, what their Wooden award projection is, what their ACC 1st team player status is, what the press thinks about whether they are really the best player on this team, what that ESPN article said about them, or how many minutes they got - then we will fail. I would think these would be very easy traps to fall into for 18 yo kids who are being told by sensationalistic journalists what they need to do to accomplish their individual goals.

If they mentally take the last name off the back of their jersey, play defense together like animals, share the ball on offense, take good shots when that is what the defense gives us, and value assists above shot attempts - this year will be transcendent. And if that happens - their individual goals will likely happen as natural consequence.

I loved seeing Grayson engaged on the bench and celebrating timeouts even though he never saw a minute. All our guys have had that attitude all year. As Duke gets more into the national spotlight and as March approaches - continuing to do this will get tougher. The pitfalls will become more tempting. But we can't do it with our collective individual talent - great as it is. To beat a team like Kentucky, we will have to do it as a team who has optimized their collective potential.

Keep doing what you're doing Duke!

[ice-9]

I've thought about it for a while and I can't think of a good Rasheed comparison...

Rip Hamilton? Though Rip was better at running around to catch the ball in good positions.

[Kedsy]

I feel like both he and Quinn are underrated in their abilities to take the ball to the hoop because a few turnovers stand out in people's minds.

Well, Quinn is on track to have the best a/to ratio in Duke history, so I could agree that people are crazy to talk about him turning the ball over. Rasheed's career a/to is a decent but not spectacular 1.85.

But I wasn't talking about turnovers with Rasheed. I just see a lot of wasted energy and he seems a little out of control when he has the ball. Often that out-of-controlness ends up with a well-defended, contorted shot attempt, rather than a turnover. Sometimes those shots go in, too. I was just agreeing with someone who suggested Rasheed needs to slow down a bit to become more effective.


Rip Hamilton? Though Rip was better at running around to catch the ball in good positions.

I don't really see Rip Hamilton at all when I look at Rasheed. Hamilton's taller and stylistically I didn't feel like he needed the ball in his hands to be effective (at least in college), not as much as Rasheed seems to, anyway. Plus, and I'm sorry that there's no nice way to say this, but Hamilton was way better than Rasheed. He was the 7th pick in a stacked NBA draft. He averaged 19.8 ppg for his college career (along with 4.5 rpg and 2.6 apg, all figures that Rasheed hasn't reached in any season, much less his career). I remember watching Hamilton his last season, which culminated with UConn team beating Duke in the finals, and Hamilton was just a stone cold killer. Almost unstoppable. I don't come anywhere close to feeling that way about Rasheed.

I want to say I feel like I've been ragging on Rasheed lately, and I don't like it. It's not because I think he's a bad player -- I actually think he's a good player. But to hear people say he's the best sixth man in Duke history or that he's a decent comp with Rip Hamilton is just going too far overboard for me. I believe Rasheed has a decent shot of eventually making it in the NBA, probably as a "3 and D" guy, though, not a lead scorer like Hamilton. But Rasheed has a long way to go before he's good enough to get there. And people who know are projecting him as a mid- to late-second round pick. Maybe he'll have a great year next season, a la Nolan Smith, and worm his way into the late first round, but he's no Rip Hamilton or anywhere close.


One other question I had. My impression was that Justise's first travel call where he made a very quick, explosive move all the way to the basket was bogus. I haven't heard any discussion about it, so maybe it was a legitimate call? He sure was fast getting to the basket and getting by his man.

I remember the call, but my recollection is the camera angle didn't really allow me to see his feet well enough to question it.

[moonpie23]

Rip Hamilton?

ugh....sorry, but i just threw up a little at the MENTION of that name....

[Edouble]

I don't really see Rip Hamilton at all when I look at Rasheed. Hamilton's taller and stylistically I didn't feel like he needed the ball in his hands to be effective (at least in college), not as much as Rasheed seems to, anyway. Plus, and I'm sorry that there's no nice way to say this, but Hamilton was way better than Rasheed. He was the 7th pick in a stacked NBA draft. He averaged 19.8 ppg for his college career (along with 4.5 rpg and 2.6 apg, all figures that Rasheed hasn't reached in any season, much less his career). I remember watching Hamilton his last season, which culminated with UConn team beating Duke in the finals, and Hamilton was just a stone cold killer. Almost unstoppable. I don't come anywhere close to feeling that way about Rasheed.

I want to say I feel like I've been ragging on Rasheed lately, and I don't like it. It's not because I think he's a bad player -- I actually think he's a good player. But to hear people say he's the best sixth man in Duke history or that he's a decent comp with Rip Hamilton is just going too far overboard for me. I believe Rasheed has a decent shot of eventually making it in the NBA, probably as a "3 and D" guy, though, not a lead scorer like Hamilton. But Rasheed has a long way to go before he's good enough to get there. And people who know are projecting him as a mid- to late-second round pick. Maybe he'll have a great year next season, a la Nolan Smith, and worm his way into the late first round, but he's no Rip Hamilton or anywhere close.

The Rip comparison is coming out of nowhere for me. Physically, Rip was taller, more slender. Rasheed is shorter, more athletic, springier.

I think Rip was always a shooter at heart that developed other parts of his game, like Ray Allen, or Steph Curry. Rasheed is a slasher at heart, who will need to continue to develop his shooting and passing. That's why I offered a Jrue Holiday comparison in another thread. Holiday and Rasheed are of similar build, and are slashers/drivers at heart. Jrue Holiday is a bit smoother on his drives, but there's still a little of the Rasheed herky jerk to his game. As his height demands it, Holiday has done a great job of developing his passing game as his career has progressed.

[Kedsy]

The Rip comparison is coming out of nowhere for me. Physically, Rip was taller, more slender. Rasheed is shorter, more athletic, springier.

I think Rip was always a shooter at heart that developed other parts of his game, like Ray Allen, or Steph Curry. Rasheed is a slasher at heart, who will need to continue to develop his shooting and passing. That's why I offered a Jrue Holiday comparison in another thread. Holiday and Rasheed are of similar build, and are slashers/drivers at heart. Jrue Holiday is a bit smoother on his drives, but there's still a little of the Rasheed herky jerk to his game. As his height demands it, Holiday has done a great job of developing his passing game as his career has progressed.

I generally agree with your analysis, but Jrue Holiday was a better/more willing passer in his freshman (only) year of college (assist % = 23.8%) than Rasheed has been to date (career high assist % = 16.9%). Possible Rasheed could get there, but there's a lot of work to be done.

[ice-9]

The comparison for me with Rip was that they both prefer to make a move and then make the mid range jumper above all else. And yeah, Rasheed isn't as good as Rip was...yet.

[OldPhiKap]

The comparison for me with Rip was that they both prefer to make a move and then make the mid range jumper above all else. And yeah, Rasheed isn't as good as Rip was...yet.

When I Sheed comng down the floor, it reminds me of C'well. Which is a big compliment. But same sort of hurkey-jersey bob which keeps you wondering where he is going and at what speed.

[Henderson]

When I Sheed comng down the floor, it reminds me of C'well. Which is a big compliment. But same sort of hurkey-jersey bob which keeps you wondering where he is going and at what speed.

Hmm. Interesting. Hadn't thought about that, but now that you mention it, I can see it. Sheed is obviously smaller but also a bit quicker. 8 ppg scorers as juniors, +/-.

I hope the comparison holds, because in his junior year, C'well and Duke went to the final four. And Carrawell exploded in his senior year, averaging over 16 ppg.

I wonder if, like Carrawell, Sulaimon has an interest in (or aptitude for) coaching. His post-game interviews seem so polished, mature and poised. Maybe President Battier in his first administration will appoint him White House Press Secretary.

[kshepinthehouse]

I feel like both he and Quinn are underrated in their abilities to take the ball to the hoop because a few turnovers stand out in people's minds.

One other question I had. My impression was that Justise's first travel call where he made a very quick, explosive move all the way to the basket was bogus. I haven't heard any discussion about it, so maybe it was a legitimate call? He sure was fast getting to the basket and getting by his man.

I've had a really hard time figuring out how that was a travel both in live action and after replaying it and slowing it down. I would be curious to hear the explanation of the referee. I think the explosive movement and the long strides surprised the ref.

[Billy Dat]

During the Wisconsin game, when Rasheed had the ball in the relatively open court, did anyone else find themselves saying "Easy Sheed, Easy, Slow down!"

I was actually cheering him on because I felt like we could have broken that game open if we'd put more pressure on them. As long as Rasheed makes better choices when he shoots and avoids bad turnovers, I like when he pushes the pace because it puts the other team on its heels. I like the idea of pushing hard even if you decide to just settle into the halfcourt, as well as the idea of pressuring full court even if you have no intention of forcing turnovers, it has that cumulative effect of wearing teams out, and I think Rasheed with his size and speed is a perfect weapon for that, especially against the other team's bench.


I want to say I feel like I've been ragging on Rasheed lately, and I don't like it. It's not because I think he's a bad player -- I actually think he's a good player. But to hear people say he's the best sixth man in Duke history or that he's a decent comp with Rip Hamilton is just going too far overboard for me. I believe Rasheed has a decent shot of eventually making it in the NBA, probably as a "3 and D" guy, though, not a lead scorer like Hamilton. But Rasheed has a long way to go before he's good enough to get there. And people who know are projecting him as a mid- to late-second round pick. Maybe he'll have a great year next season, a la Nolan Smith, and worm his way into the late first round, but he's no Rip Hamilton or anywhere close.

I think this is exactly right. Comps always suffer from huge inflation. Why is Okafor being saddled with Tim Duncan comps? "Jah has had a great start to his college career, let's compare him to maybe the greatest 4/5 of all time!" Rasheed will get a real shot at the NBA because he's the right size, is an NBA athlete and plays for one of the top NBA feeder programs. But, I agree that his goal should be making a team and then trying to crack the rotation. We shouldn't be comparing him to NBA All Stars and starters.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Holy moly, it's still more than a week until we play again?

I guess that gives us lots of time to savor the Wisco game

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Holy moly, it's still more than a week until we play again?

I guess that gives us lots of time to savor the Wisco game

And time to speculate about the challenge of Elon.

[uh_no]

And time to speculate about the challenge of Elon.

and this is DBR, so the answer is:

"they're well coached and disciplined, regardless of how bad they are, so they will certainly prove to be a tough challenge....we shouldn't look over this game since it's a classic trap game, and you know, NJIT beat michigan, so that makes it more likely that elon will put up a fight!"

Rule 1: there are only 2 types of games, big games and trap games
Rule 2: every team who isn't actually good is still well coached and will present a tough challenge to duke

Not that I prescribe that we should be looking over opponents....just that realistically this will not be a challenging game if we come out to play with the effort that we ought.

[Devilwin]

Have watched the Wisconsin game four times now. About as perfect as we can play, just excellent. If we play this well, we can win it all. Saw Kentucky/Texas, and was not overly impressed with certain aspects of their game, where in a matchup with them we could exploit these things to our advantage. Like back court quickness. And my impression is their height just overwhelms smaller teams, but I feel Jefferson and Okafor can hold their own against them.

[jipops]

I re-watched the game the other night. We like to talk about how there is such differences between last year's team and this team. I think that was exemplified with 5 minutes left in the 2nd half where Jah picked up his 4th foul and headed to the bench. (Don't know if this game sequence was already mentioned up thread) On the next 2 or 3 defensive possessions we went into lock down mode. Wisconsin couldn't get anything going for those crucial possessions and we actually extended the lead. If I remember correctly, this type of sequence rarely if ever happened last season, certainly not against an opponent to the level of Wisconsin.

[uh_no]

Have watched the Wisconsin game four times now. About as perfect as we can play, just excellent. If we play this well, we can win it all. Saw Kentucky/Texas, and was not overly impressed with certain aspects of their game, where in a matchup with them we could exploit these things to our advantage. Like back court quickness. And my impression is their height just overwhelms smaller teams, but I feel Jefferson and Okafor can hold their own against them.

That's true many times for duke teams....the real question is can we find a way to win when we DON'T play this well? chances are we won't play 100% perfect every game....and if we have to depend on that 6 games in a row...it's likely we'll go home disappointed.

I think and hope we can play less well and win, but I think it is the more interesting hypothetical.

[Indoor66]

That's true many times for duke teams....the real question is can we find a way to win when we DON'T play this well? chances are we won't play 100% perfect every game....and if we have to depend on that 6 games in a row...it's likely we'll go home disappointed.

I think and hope we can play less well and win, but I think it is the more interesting hypothetical.

I absolutely do not understand what you are trying to say. Please expand your point of clarify what your point is.

[Edouble]

I absolutely do not understand what you are trying to say. Please expand your point of clarify what your point is.

You could be a little more clear as well. :(

[fgb]

the difference between last year and this, as i see it, is that this team has a toughness and grittiness that last year's team lacked. this team takes blows, and fights back for 40 minutes. last year's team was fun to watch when we were playing well, but frustrating to watch when we weren't, and seemed to just fold at critical points. i love watching this team even when things aren't going well; they just keep fighting, keep at it, figuring it out.

you could say that last year we seemed a lot of time to be just trying to hang on to a win; this year, if feels more like we're reaching out and grabbing it.