MBB: Duke vs. Wisconsin (12/3, 2130 ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[Native]

Big-time road test for our guys this week!

If this were at Cameron I'd be much more confident. The Kohl Center is no joke. Our guys will need to play their best game of the season thus far to win.

[-jk]

...The Kohl Center is no joke...

It's the ball (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/is-home-court-advantage-really-about-the-ball/?_r=0).

-jk

[Bluegrassdevil1]

One of the things that always stands out to me when "good teams" meet in the regular season is the prevalence of rematches occurring in the Final Four, and more importantly, the oddity of one team winning both meetings. I would be quite shocked if Wisconsin did not make the Final Four, and though I am unconvinced that Duke will progress to the last weekend, I do find the relative occurrence of rematches to be quite interesting:

The winner of the regular season matchup is 11 – 3 in the Final Four; however, I did not look beyond 1992 contests, because I am lazy.

2014 FF: UConn vs. Florida; UConn won both games.
2012 FF: UK vs. U of L; UK won both games.
2012 FF: Kansas vs. OSU; Kansas won both games.
2011 FF: UK vs. UConn; UConn won both games.
2009 title game: UNC vs. MSU; UNC won both games.
2007 title game: Florida vs. OSU; Florida won both games.
2004 title game: UConn vs. Georgia Tech: split (no Okafor in GT win).
2001 FF: Duke vs. Maryland; Duke won 3 of 4.
2000 FF: MSU vs. Wisconsin; MSU won all 4 times.
1999 FF: Duke vs. MSU; Duke won both games.
1997 FF: Arizona vs. UNC; Arizona won both games.
1996 FF: UK vs. UMass; split.
1993 title game: UNC vs. Michigan; split.
1992 title game: Duke vs. Michigan; Duke won both games.

Hopefully, wishfully, Duke wins on Wednesday, and the rematch repetition reoccurs for the Blue Devils.

As for the game itself:

1. Duke has a chance to obtain the best non-conference win for any team this season; UNC and Texas have their chances in Rupp, and Gonzaga and Michigan have games in Tucson, but I find the odds of either Wildcat team losing at home to be highly unlikely.

2. Win or lose, Duke will be provided with a fantastic gauge as to where they are as a team.

3. Duke lost at the Kohl not too long ago (2009-2010), so if a loss gets the same result as 09-10, I will be thrilled.

4. Wisconsin, though good, looked less than superior in the Battle for Atlantis.

5. I am concerned about the Badgers having four days to prepare for a home game, whereas Duke will have 48 hours for a tough road test. Why Duke could not have at least played Army yesterday, or not all after Furman, is beyond my comprehension.

6. I do not expect Duke to win (too much inexperience playing on the road against experience), but if Duke keeps it close, it would be difficult to fault the Blue Devils in any way.

[fuse]

It's the ball (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/is-home-court-advantage-really-about-the-ball/?_r=0).

-jk

This remains one of the most eccentric parts of college basketball.

I had forgotten Wisconsin used its own ball.

[bbosbbos]

Watched Wisconsin BB twice this week. They are a good team with a lot of 3 pt shooters and a good slasher, no TOs, very disciplined. Many so called "analysts", including Jay Williams, predict they will beat the fried chicken and win all.

I do not know who gonna win but in K I trust.

[sagegrouse]

It's the ball (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/is-home-court-advantage-really-about-the-ball/?_r=0).

-jk


This remains one of the most eccentric parts of college basketball.

I had forgotten Wisconsin used its own ball.

Now we got to add a category to the home-road discussion, which used to be --
Road game: hostile crowd, opponent's arena, travel.
Neutral game: balanced crowd, neutral arena, travel. (Usually a tournament.)
Home cooking: hostile crowd, opponent's arena, home cooking. (Like a Big Four game.)
Home game; etc., etc.

Now it turns out the ball makes a difference?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think this will be a real big test for Okafor's patience and Duke's ability to show a strong inside game against a high level team. He has tons of talent, but he is just 7 games into his freshman season.

He's going to have to really watch his foul situation, because I expect Wisconsin to go right at him.

They are good at getting it inside and have smart, physical players.

I've noticed that Okafor leaves his feet fairly often at the rim on D when he doesn't need to....typical freshman stuff....so I'd coach my guys to pump fake it and then go at him.

If he stays out of foul trouble, Duke should be in it at the end. If not, better hope the shots are falling from deep.

[dukelifer]

Watched Wisconsin BB twice this week. They are a good team with a lot of 3 pt shooters and a good slasher, no TOs, very disciplined. Many so called "analysts", including Jay Williams, predict they will beat the fried chicken and win all.

I do not know who gonna win but in K I trust.

I doubt they will win it all but they are likely to win on Wed. That said- Duke is not a finished product. Looking forward to seeing who steps up when it gets tough up there. Winslow? T Jones? Sheed? This game will help this Duke team win or lose.

[bbosbbos]

I notice that Wisconsin star Kaminsky, 7 feet, is very good, but a little "soft" and not athletic. We can match him with Jahzilla & MP3. Another star is 6-9 foward Sam Dekker. He can shoot 3, slash to the rim and rebound. I do not know if AJ or JW can contain him. Their 3rd star is a senior forward Duje Dukan with good 3 pt. How can we slow him down? We will get the answers in 3 days.

[Saratoga2]

Hostile arena, travel, two days to prep., experience issue. Add to that, they are very good three point shooters, are very well coached and are legitimately rated #2 and we have a very tough test facing us.

On the other hand, Jahlil is really a very special talent and will be a difficult matchup for Wisconsin. I wish our 3 point shooting was a little better at this point. I hope we get our best effort and if we do we certainly have a chance in this one. I wish the kids the best of luck. We shall have a guage of our capability Wednesday night.

[Henderson]

Trap game for Wisconsin. They play Wojo's Marquette team on Saturday and are likely to overlook Duke as a result.

[gurufrisbee]

Wisconsin is a great team. They probably should have won it all last year and only lost on guy from that team. Gasser, Koenig, Jackson, Dukan, Kaminsky, Dekker - so many guys who shoot so well. Anyone will have to be on top of their game to beat them. But I think Georgetown gave a nice game plan for one way to push the Badgers - attack Kaminsky in the paint (NO ONE is as big as Josh Smith - and I know - I knew the kid in high school) and hit your three's. If Okafor attacks well in the paint and we can hit our three's, we've got a good shot.

[jacone21]

Will Duke be sending any other players besides Okafor? ESPN's promos lead me to believe he's the only one making the trip.

[Edouble]

Not a lot of optimism around these parts. I feel pretty confident that we're winning this game. We are the more talented team and we have Coach K. Capel's no slouch either.

[Philadukie]

We need to feed Okafor the ball the way people voted in the wards of early 20th century Chicago -- early and often. Go after their biggest strength in Kaminsky and try to get him in foul trouble. Of course, they'll be attempting the same against Jah.

[MChambers]

We're a very young team, and our three point shooting will be a key. I think it's tough for a young team to shoot well on the road against a top tier opponent, so I'm thinking we'll probably come up short. Didn't we lose at Wisconsin in 2009-2010? That season turned out okay, I think.

[wilson]

Trap game for Wisconsin. They play Wojo's Marquette team on Saturday and are likely to overlook Duke as a result.I gotta disagree with this. I think the last time Duke was overlooked by anyone was against UNLV in 1991.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

We need to feed Okafor the ball the way people voted in the wards of early 20th century Chicago -- early and often. Go after their biggest strength in Kaminsky and try to get him in foul trouble. Of course, they'll be attempting the same against Jah.

Correct, when you have the best post player in the country, get him the ball in the paint.

What I'm watching for is how.

To date, coach K has sent him low on his own in the 1/2 court and let him seal his guy. Okafor works hard at gaining his spot, and very good at it. He's big, strong and active...and he has been getting good position, but against mainly overmatched guys at this point in the season.

He's going to be facing some big/strong guys from here on out and I'm not convinced he can get the really good position down low on his own consistently enough to cause the sagging Duke wants to open it up for the shooters. I think he's going to need some baseline screens. Every big man benefits from those.

So far, I haven't seen any along the baseline for him in Duke's set offense. Jefferson is not screening, instead giving him space inside to operate, not clogging up the lane for him, and to get a running start on the boards where he excels, or to be an available for the pass coming to the rim when Okafor gets doubled.

Can Duke get it to Okafor in post scoring position consistently? The answer to that will determine just how good this team can be.

[CDu]

Correct, when you have the best post player in the country, get him the ball in the paint.

What I'm watching for is how.

To date, coach K has sent him low on his own in the 1/2 court and let him seal his guy. Okafor works hard at gaining his spot, and very good at it. He's big, strong and active...and he has been getting good position, but against mainly overmatched guys at this point in the season.

He's going to be facing some big/strong guys from here on out and I'm not convinced he can get the really good position down low on his own consistently enough to cause the sagging Duke wants to open it up for the shooters. I think he's going to need some baseline screens. Every big man benefits from those.

So far, I haven't seen any along the baseline for him in Duke's set offense. Jefferson is not screening, instead giving him space inside to operate, not clogging up the lane for him, and to get a running start on the boards where he excels, or to be an available for the pass coming to the rim when Okafor gets doubled.

Can Duke get it to Okafor in post scoring position consistently? The answer to that will determine just how good this team can be.

There is more than one way to get Okafor good post position. The "UNC way" (screening big on big along the baseline) isn't the only way, and it isn't necessarily the best way either. It's just "a" way. Screening big on big along the baseline can often work. But a well-coached team with two capable bigs can handle that simply by switching on the screen and fronting the post.

One can also "create" good post position simply by making a pass to enter the ball from a different angle. Or by running a high pick and post with a guard/wing. Lots of different ways to skin a cat.

Duke hasn't had trouble yet getting Okafor the ball in good post position, and Okafor hasn't had much difficulty establishing post position on his own. When he has struggled offensively (specifically in the Stanford and Temple games) it was because he made poor decisions in attacking a double team or trying to beat the help defender to the spot.

This will be a fantastic test. I'm not terribly concerned with Duke's ability to get Okafor the ball in the post. Nor am I concerned about Okafor's ability to score in the post. My main concern is on the other end of the floor. Kaminsky is a very difficult matchup for Okafor because he likes to pick and pop on the perimeter. That's a terrible proposition for Okafor - a freshman big who is much more comfortable near the basket.

I wonder if Coach K would consider putting Jefferson on Kaminsky and letting Okafor guard the bruising Nigel Hayes - a 6'7" 250 widebody who prefers to work closer to the basket. Of course, Wisconsin could counter by putting Dekker at PF, which would force Duke's hand as Dekker and Kaminsky both prefer the perimeter.

Should be a great early-season test. Given that it is in Wisconsin, I wouldn't be shocked by a loss for our guys. But we certainly have the talent to win, especially on the perimeter where I'd give us the edge at every spot.

[MChambers]

I gotta disagree with this. I think the last time Duke was overlooked by anyone was against UNLV in 1991.

I think Henderson's tongue was in his cheek.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wisconsin and Duke historically have something in common: short rotations. This year is nothing new.

Duke plays 8.5 guys, and a solid 8 for tough games. On Wednesday, I'd be shocked to see either Semi or Grayson see any playing time.

Wisconsin plays 7 guys, with a guard and a forward coming off the bench.

Foul trouble is going to be key for both sides, especially at the 5, where both team's have a star player but fortunately Duke has depth.

[Troublemaker]

There is more than one way to get Okafor good post position. The "UNC way" (screening big on big along the baseline) isn't the only way, and it isn't necessarily the best way either. It's just "a" way. Screening big on big along the baseline can often work. But a well-coached team with two capable bigs can handle that simply by switching on the screen and fronting the post.

One can also "create" good post position simply by making a pass to enter the ball from a different angle. Or by running a high pick and post with a guard/wing. Lots of different ways to skin a cat.

Duke hasn't had trouble yet getting Okafor the ball in good post position, and Okafor hasn't had much difficulty establishing post position on his own. When he has struggled offensively (specifically in the Stanford and Temple games) it was because he made poor decisions in attacking a double team or trying to beat the help defender to the spot.

Excellent response, CDu. To lend some statistical support to what you are saying, Okafor's current usage rate of 28.7% is higher than Tyler Hansbrough's usage rate of 26.7% for UNC's 2009 title team. Okafor's percentage of shots taken of 30.1% is higher than Hansbrough's 25.6% in 2009. If Duke hasn't been getting the ball enough to Okafor, you could say the same for UNC wrt Hansbrough.



This will be a fantastic test. I'm not terribly concerned with Duke's ability to get Okafor the ball in the post. Nor am I concerned about Okafor's ability to score in the post. My main concern is on the other end of the floor. Kaminsky is a very difficult matchup for Okafor because he likes to pick and pop on the perimeter. That's a terrible proposition for Okafor - a freshman big who is much more comfortable near the basket.

I wonder if Coach K would consider putting Jefferson on Kaminsky and letting Okafor guard the bruising Nigel Hayes - a 6'7" 250 widebody who prefers to work closer to the basket. Of course, Wisconsin could counter by putting Dekker at PF, which would force Duke's hand as Dekker and Kaminsky both prefer the perimeter.

Great point. I do expect some cross-matchups in this game. And Duke will also hedge and switch more often in this game since you can't ice a great stretch big man like Kaminsky.

[Troublemaker]

Wisconsin and Duke historically have something in common: short rotations. This year is nothing new.

Duke plays 8.5 guys, and a solid 8 for tough games. On Wednesday, I'd be shocked to see either Semi or Grayson see any playing time.

While I've been disappointed that Grayson and Semi haven't really gotten time in competitive games, would you really call an 8-man rotation short? I've always thought that if you had a guard, a wing, and a big man off the bench that you can rely upon, that's a good rotation for the college level. And if you can go to a 9-man rotation, that's great depth. Short for me is a 6 or 7 man rotation.

[Troublemaker]

I would be quite shocked if Wisconsin did not make the Final Four,

Really?



He's going to have to really watch his foul situation, because I expect Wisconsin to go right at him.

I've noticed that Okafor leaves his feet fairly often at the rim on D when he doesn't need to....typical freshman stuff....so I'd coach my guys to pump fake it and then go at him.

If he stays out of foul trouble, Duke should be in it at the end. If not, better hope the shots are falling from deep.

Okafor really hasn't had any trouble with defensive fouls yet this season. He's only had one game where he committed even 4 fouls, against MSU. And in that game, 2 or 3 of those fouls were offensive.

That said, first road game, top 5 opponent. It's possible this is the game where he finally makes some defensive mistakes that lands him in foul trouble.

If that happens, I expect Duke to continue to play well and not have to rely on "threes falling." The plus/minus stats folks have posted on this board so far this season indicate to me that Duke has played exceptionally well when Plumlee is in the game. He probably has the highest per minute plus/minus on the team so far. We have a good backup center.

Also, while Okafor is the #1 option when he's in, Duke has an array of slashers and ball movement mavens on the team that I believe will still generate good shots when Okafor is out. And not just good shots from outside.




I notice that Wisconsin star Kaminsky, 7 feet, is very good, but a little "soft" and not athletic. We can match him with Jahzilla & MP3. Another star is 6-9 foward Sam Dekker. He can shoot 3, slash to the rim and rebound. I do not know if AJ or JW can contain him. Their 3rd star is a senior forward Duje Dukan with good 3 pt. How can we slow him down? We will get the answers in 3 days.

I like Dukan a lot but I think their 3rd star is really Nigel Hayes, who is putting up 13 and 8 while Dukan is coming off the bench for 8 and 4. That said, Dukan is a really good, versatile guy. In Atlantis, Bo Ryan even used him as a 6'9" shooting guard. That would be interesting if Quinn has to guard him.

Lots of interesting possible matchups in this game.

[flyingdutchdevil]

While I've been disappointed that Grayson and Semi haven't really gotten time in competitive games, would you really call an 8-man rotation short? I've always thought that if you had a guard, a wing, and a big man off the bench that you can rely upon, that's a good rotation for the college level. And if you can go to a 9-man rotation, that's great depth. Short for me is a 6 or 7 man rotation.

Given that DBR thinks 10 players should play, and 8 < 10, so 8 is short ;)

I agree with you somewhat as I think most elite college teams use around 8.

But with Wisconsin only using 7, foul trouble could be a huuuuuge plus for us (as well as a huge negative if we get into it).

[Billy Dat]

It's the ball (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/is-home-court-advantage-really-about-the-ball/?_r=0).-jk

Can we assume that our crack staff had a crate of those balls shipped to Durham and will practice with them for a few days? If we have a grease board with the exact markings of our home court, I hope we also got a hold of some Sterlings.


I doubt they will win it all but they are likely to win on Wed. That said- Duke is not a finished product. Looking forward to seeing who steps up when it gets tough up there. Winslow? T Jones? Sheed? This game will help this Duke team win or lose.


We're a very young team, and our three point shooting will be a key. I think it's tough for a young team to shoot well on the road against a top tier opponent, so I'm thinking we'll probably come up short. Didn't we lose at Wisconsin in 2009-2010? That season turned out okay, I think.


Not a lot of optimism around these parts. I feel pretty confident that we're winning this game. We are the more talented team and we have Coach K. Capel's no slouch either.

It's great to have such a high profile low stakes game this early in the year. There are a lot of reasons to think Wisconsin will win, they are a top team in all polls, they have superior collective experience playing together at the highest level, and they are playing at home. While we do have K, Bo Ryan is basically as good as it gets so I don't see us having a game changing advantage from that perspective. The styles are really different, we are averaging close to 70 possessions per game where they like to play closer to 63 at home, and they really force the defense to defend an active continuity offense for long possessions, while also being opportunistic about jacking 3s on the secondary break. As others have said, it will be interesting to see how we decide to defend. Maybe we should have someone other than Jah chasing Frank the Tank around the 3 point line. But, he's a really deft passer so it could be dangerous to give him the ball and allow him to peer over the head of a smaller defender flinging pinpoint strikes to cutters all over the court. We also give up a little size at every position.

But, we've got speed, quickness and athleticism to burn. One has to assume that both teams are going to try and get their pace and that whomever wins that facet will win. But, we've proven that we can play grind-it-out, and I am sure Wisconsin can win a high possession game if their shots are falling.

I am really curious to see which of our guys steps up, and what the rotations will be. I feel like Wisconsin is the favorite, above all else, because they know who they are and, as DukeLifer said, we are a work in progress.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

There is more than one way to get Okafor good post position. The "UNC way" (screening big on big along the baseline) isn't the only way, and it isn't necessarily the best way either. It's just "a" way. Screening big on big along the baseline can often work. But a well-coached team with two capable bigs can handle that simply by switching on the screen and fronting the post.

One can also "create" good post position simply by making a pass to enter the ball from a different angle. Or by running a high pick and post with a guard/wing. Lots of different ways to skin a cat.

Duke hasn't had trouble yet getting Okafor the ball in good post position, and Okafor hasn't had much difficulty establishing post position on his own. When he has struggled offensively (specifically in the Stanford and Temple games) it was because he made poor decisions in attacking a double team or trying to beat the help defender to the spot.

This will be a fantastic test. I'm not terribly concerned with Duke's ability to get Okafor the ball in the post. Nor am I concerned about Okafor's ability to score in the post. My main concern is on the other end of the floor. PKaminsky is a very difficult matchup for Okafor because he likes to pick and pop on the perimeter. That's a terrible proposition for Okafor - a freshman big who is much more comfortable near the basket.

I wonder if Coach K would consider putting Jefferson on Kaminsky and letting Okafor guard the bruising Nigel Hayes - a 6'7" 250 widebody who prefers to work closer to the basket. Of course, Wisconsin could counter by putting Dekker at PF, which would force Duke's hand as Dekker and Kaminsky both prefer the perimeter.

Should be a great early-season test. Given that it is in Wisconsin, I wouldn't be shocked by a loss for our guys. But we certainly have the talent to win, especially on the perimeter where I'd give us the edge at every spot.

Lots of teams use baseline screens to help their big men in the post. Not sure why you think I was suggesting it was "the UNC way"...or else.

I do think it's the best way to free up the space deep under the rim. That's where the high % shots are for big men who have touch and can score, like Okafor. The closer he can get set up to the rim, and catch the ball, the better.

It's been the Brand days since coach K has really coached to feed a low post offense. As you say, there are lots of ways to do it, none easy...and it takes team commitment to rotate the ball and look for those passing angles for a back to the basket player like him to receive the ball in good post position....all in a timely manner.

I'm just curious to see how coach K decides to make it happen, and for sure it needs to happen.

I think you guys are going to need the strong inside offense from Okafor to be final four team.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think you guys are going to need the strong inside offense from Okafor to be final four team.

Are we not strong on the inside? Okafor is averaging 17.7 ppg on 64% shooting. His counterpart, Amile Jefferson, is averaging 9.3 ppg on 5.4 shots a game.

We are strong inside and we are strong outside. This team is incredibly balanced, and leveraging Okafor for unlimited shots inside may not be ideal for a team this balanced.

[NSDukeFan]

We're a very young team, and our three point shooting will be a key. I think it's tough for a young team to shoot well on the road against a top tier opponent, so I'm thinking we'll probably come up short. Didn't we lose at Wisconsin in 2009-2010? That season turned out okay, I think.
I agree with everything you say, except your title, as I am optimistic, though I agree I wouldn't be at all surprised if Duke lost this game. I am optimistic though, because, of what Billy Dat says below. If we lose against the #2 team in the country in a relatively low stakes game, but play well and/or learn lots from it, I will be very happy. If this team manages to go to Wisconsin and beat the Badgers (which is certainly possible) I will be ecstatic.



It's great to have such a high profile low stakes game this early in the year. There are a lot of reasons to think Wisconsin will win, they are a top team in all polls, they have superior collective experience playing together at the highest level, and they are playing at home. While we do have K, Bo Ryan is basically as good as it gets so I don't see us having a game changing advantage from that perspective. The styles are really different, we are averaging close to 70 possessions per game where they like to play closer to 63 at home, and they really force the defense to defend an active continuity offense for long possessions, while also being opportunistic about jacking 3s on the secondary break. As others have said, it will be interesting to see how we decide to defend. Maybe we should have someone other than Jah chasing Frank the Tank around the 3 point line. But, he's a really deft passer so it could be dangerous to give him the ball and allow him to peer over the head of a smaller defender flinging pinpoint strikes to cutters all over the court. We also give up a little size at every position.

But, we've got speed, quickness and athleticism to burn. One has to assume that both teams are going to try and get their pace and that whomever wins that facet will win. But, we've proven that we can play grind-it-out, and I am sure Wisconsin can win a high possession game if their shots are falling.

I am really curious to see which of our guys steps up, and what the rotations will be. I feel like Wisconsin is the favorite, above all else, because they know who they are and, as DukeLifer said, we are a work in progress.
I agree that Wisconsin is the favorite at home, but it is awesome to have a #2 vs. #4 matchup this early in the year.

Lots of teams use baseline screens to help their big men in the post. Not sure why you think I was suggesting it was "the UNC way"...or else.

I do think it's the best way to free up the space deep under the rim. That's where the high % shots are for big men who have touch and can score, like Okafor. The closer he can get set up to the rim, and catch the ball, the better.

It's been the Brand days since coach K has really coached to feed a low post offense. As you say, there are lots of ways to do it, none easy...and it takes team commitment to rotate the ball and look for those passing angles for a back to the basket player like him to receive the ball in good post position....all in a timely manner.

I'm just curious to see how coach K decides to make it happen, and for sure it needs to happen.

I think you guys are going to need the strong inside offense from Okafor to be final four team.

Mason Plumlee, top post player in the country a couple of years ago, says hi. I would agree that the coaching staff may not have used cross screens to get Mason the ball, but a lot of the offense when he was around was getting him the ball in the post and slightly further out, where he would often attack facing the basket.

[tux]

Are we not strong on the inside? Okafor is averaging 17.7 ppg on 64% shooting. His counterpart, Amile Jefferson, is averaging 9.3 ppg on 5.4 shots a game.

We are strong inside and we are strong outside. This team is incredibly balanced, and leveraging Okafor for unlimited shots inside may not be ideal for a team this balanced.


I think your and CDu's related points above are good ones, but I will say that I think K has a history of not being super creative in getting his bigs easy looks. It's worked so far, but it appears to be fairly vanilla stuff that may not work as the competition stiffens and teams start to game plan to stop Okafor, which will happen. It's not that Duke has failed to get Okafor the ball in the post, it's whether Duke is capable of getting even better looks in the post going forward.

Yesterday, I noticed we ran some screen and roll with Okafor where the ball handler never even looked to pass despite Okafor being open...

[sagegrouse]

I think your and CDu's related points above are good ones, but I will say that I think K has a history of not being super creative in getting his bigs easy looks. It's worked so far, but it appears to be fairly vanilla stuff that may not work as the competition stiffens and teams start to game plan to stop Okafor, which will happen. It's not that Duke has failed to get Okafor the ball in the post, it's whether Duke is capable of getting even better looks in the post going forward.

Yesterday, I noticed we ran some screen and roll with Okafor where the ball handler never even looked to pass despite Okafor being open...

OTOH, until yesterday's game it seemed like Jah was much more active in the second half, which I interpreted as suggesting both that his defenders were wearing down a little, allowing him to get open, and that the Duke guards were also wearing down a little, making them more eager to feed the post. But I am probably over-analyzing the situation.

Kindly, Sage

[duke09hms]

Yesterday, I noticed we ran some screen and roll with Okafor where the ball handler never even looked to pass despite Okafor being open...

This has been an issue for a long time. People often discount this fact by pointing to our high KenPom offense rating, but that's missing the point. No one is saying the offense isn't already good or even great, but a great offense can be even better by involving the screening big men even more.

That said, Okafor is and has been the focus of our offense so far, and hopefully we will see that continue as the competition stiffens.

[Eakane]

Perhaps there's a chance we can tire them out? Full court press, 8 (or 9) vs. 7, athletic and talented versus experienced and disciplined.
What's pleased me most about this season so far is the commitment to defense. In M. Jones and Sheed we have lock down defenders -- maybe not Billy King or Shane Battier-like, but guys who love to defend. There's been none of the nonsense we saw from Vermont to Wake last year, where we seemed consistently a half step behind. The switches and communication have been really good - especially for this early in the season.
Second most pleasing is the play of Quinn. He is overwhelmingly better than last year. Playing along side T. Jones makes them both exponentially better. What a joy to have two PGs that good!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Mason Plumlee, top post player in the country a couple of years ago, says hi. I would agree that the coaching staff may not have used cross screens to get Mason the ball, but a lot of the offense when he was around was getting him the ball in the post and slightly further out, where he would often attack facing the basket.

Mason rarely posted up with his back to the basket at the charge similar-circle like Okafor does, (something I always argued he should have done more of....as everybody knows).

He was a high ball screen, pick and roll guy, and a darn good one.

I always liked how Mason played hard, but he never developed a traditional low post game like Okafor entered Duke with...and he could have with focus on it. Great size, strength, quickness...decent touch.

Please don't anyone try to tell me that running jump hook he learned made him a post guy. And being strong on the boards for put backs is not my idea of an advanced offensive post game.

He and Coach K were fine with how he was used and he played on good teams. That's all that matters. My opinion is just my opinion. He's in the NBA...good for him....laughing all the way to the bank.

But I'll always wonder just how good he could have been if he had decided to be a traditional low post center.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Are we not strong on the inside? Okafor is averaging 17.7 ppg on 64% shooting. His counterpart, Amile Jefferson, is averaging 9.3 ppg on 5.4 shots a game.

We are strong inside and we are strong outside. This team is incredibly balanced, and leveraging Okafor for unlimited shots inside may not be ideal for a team this balanced.

Yes, Duke is strong inside.

But it's one thing to get your points in the paint from post entry passes and creative moves like Okafor has, and another to depend on your scoring in there to come off rebounds and transition.

I think Duke is a much stronger team when Okafor gets established inside and receives entry passes...which makes teams sag down on him giving your excellent shooters better looks.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Second most pleasing is the play of Quinn. He is overwhelmingly better than last year. Playing along side T. Jones makes them both exponentially better. What a joy to have two PGs that good!

I think Cook's early season play has him moving into the All-ACC conversation.

[Duvall]

I think Cook's early season play has him moving into the All-ACC conversation.

Cook has been the second-best guard in the ACC thus far, behind Jerian Grant, so sure. But it's only December 1, so that doesn't mean much.

[duke09hms]

Yes, Duke is strong inside.



Dang man, that must have been PAINFUL for you to admit! Nah, it's true, outside of 2013, it's been a LONG time since we've had a dependable source of low post offense.

Your contributions are welcome here and useful for counteracting the Duke Blue groupthink that naturally takes place.

Have to say though, your rationalizations of the numerous UNC misbehaviors are amusing and must be exhaustively creative.

[NSDukeFan]

Mason rarely posted up with his back to the basket at the charge similar-circle like Okafor does, (something I always argued he should have done more of....as everybody knows).

He was a high ball screen, pick and roll guy, and a darn good one.

I always liked how Mason played hard, but he never developed a traditional low post game like Okafor entered Duke with...and he could have with focus on it. Great size, strength, quickness...decent touch.

Please don't anyone try to tell me that running jump hook he learned made him a post guy. And being strong on the boards for put backs is not my idea of an advanced offensive post game.

He and Coach K were fine with how he was used and he played on good teams. That's all that matters. My opinion is just my opinion. He's in the NBA...good for him....laughing all the way to the bank.

But I'll always wonder just how good he could have been if he had decided to be a traditional low post center.

But, Mason did often post up just outside the key, where traditional post-ups occur. This wasn't the only way, or place, he caught the ball, but it was a major part of the team's offense. The running jump hook he learned didn't make him a post guy, but that was one of the moves he had in the post. The combination of running hook, jump hook, moves baseline and to the middle, offensive rebounds, pick and rolls (which are, of course essential in the pros), post ups on the blocks , back door cuts, etc. we're what led him to be a post guy and perhaps the best one in college his senior year.
Of course, he and coach K are fine with how he was used. He was a big contributor to four very good Duke teams (if you are at Duke, you probably are playing on good teams) and developed several post moves in his time at Duke, so that he could be the featured low post threat his senior year and become an All-American.
He was certainly too athletic and skilled to be chained to the post like the very good Tyler Zeller was.

[left_hook_lacey]

Now we got to add a category to the home-road discussion, which used to be --
Road game: hostile crowd, opponent's arena, travel.
Neutral game: balanced crowd, neutral arena, travel. (Usually a tournament.)
Home cooking: hostile crowd, opponent's arena, home cooking. (Like a Big Four game.)
Home game; etc., etc.

Now it turns out the ball makes a difference?

I would agree with the posted article. In my limited career of playing, the ball made more of a difference to me than any of the other variables you listed. I rarely heard or saw anything in the stands; I had tunnel vision and saw only the game being played. In high school, my sisters used to ask me.."Does it embarrass you that mom gets so vocal at the other team and the refs during the game." My response was always..."I rarely, if ever, hear things in the stands."

Shooting was always my best skill. And the ball made a huge difference to me. The Wilson Solution mentioned in the article is, to me, by far the best game ball out there for a shooter. It's the right tackiness, softness, with good shooting channels. Love it.

I have been in pickup games in which I psyched myself out of the game before we even started because I didn't like the ball we were playing with. I was convinced I couldn't shoot with it even, before the first possession. It's that important to me. I assume that I cross over from "picky" about the ball, into superstitious about the ball somewhere in there, but the line is blurred.

The ball is first on my list of variables that will affect the game. The second is the rim/backboard. The backboard isn't really an issue at the college level, but there is such a thing as a tight rim and soft rim.

[DukieInBrasil]

Everybody upthread is talking about how good of 3pt shooting team Wisconsin is. Duke is the better 3FG shooting team in this game, 39 > 34%, including Duke's terrible performance against Army. Sure, Wisconsin shoots the 3 at a respectable clip, but Quinn has made almost 2x as many as anybody on their team (21 vs 11). Duke then has 2 players who have made more than their next highest 3FG maker (10&9 vs 8&8). It may just be that people are worried about Wisconsin having TALL 3FG shooters, whereas none of Duke's big men can shoot the 3 (save MP3's lone make/attempt), combined withe fact that Duke's guards are relatively short whereas theirs are relatively tall. That doesn't seem to have helped them substantially more than being short has hurt Duke.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

He was certainly too athletic and skilled to be chained to the post like the very good Tyler Zeller was.

Hmmm...Zeller "chained to the post" is begging for a reply.

Tyler has half the athleticism that Mason possess, yet his focus on becoming a true post player had him starting last week for the Celtics.

Mason is currently in the coaches doghouse and playing behind Jerome Jordan, a career 2.2 PPG scorer....just sayin' ;)

Being a good post player is a rare, wonderful thing, not a bad thing like "too skilled to be chained in the post" tries to suggest...which is why so many people love Okafor.

[-jk]

Mason rarely posted up with his back to the basket at the charge similar-circle like Okafor does, (something I always argued he should have done more of....as everybody knows).

He was a high ball screen, pick and roll guy, and a darn good one.

I always liked how Mason played hard, but he never developed a traditional low post game like Okafor entered Duke with...and he could have with focus on it. Great size, strength, quickness...decent touch...

I think I saw a different Mason...

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

I think I saw a different Mason...

-jk

Be honest. Mason could have been every bit as good as Okafor if Wojo could teach big men.

Oh wait, I forgot that K cannot recruit big men so we had to settle for Mason.

Sorry, I stand corrected. We recruit big guys, but we just use them to set screens. Unless their names are Luol, Sheldon, Christian, or Carlos.

Oops, my bad. We have had a lot of super-talented big men, K just doesn't draw up offenses to feed them the ball.

How the hell did he guy with the funny name win four national championships?

[Edouble]

Hmmm...Zeller "chained to the post" is begging for a reply.

Tyler has half the athleticism that Mason possess, yet his focus on becoming a true post player had him starting last week for the Celtics.

Mason is currently in the coaches doghouse and playing behind Jerome Jordan, a career 2.2 PPG scorer....just sayin' ;)

Being a good post player is a rare, wonderful thing, not a bad thing like "too skilled to be chained in the post" tries to suggest...which is why so many people love Okafor.

Likewise, Kelly Olynyk is in Brad Stevens's doghouse, so Zeller is getting the start. Plumlee and Olynyk are both being sent a message by their respective coaches by having a lesser player take some of their minutes.

I can't say for sure all of the reasons that Mason is being shown the pine, but I know at least one reason is that he is shooting less than 50% from the line, which is not post-play specific.

I'll not argue that a better post game wouldn't compliment Mason's athleticism, but I don't think his lack of post moves tells the whole story.

[Bluegrassdevil1]

Be honest. Mason could have been every bit as good as Okafor if Wojo could teach big men.

Oh wait, I forgot that K cannot recruit big men so we had to settle for Mason.

Sorry, I stand corrected. We recruit big guys, but we just use them to set screens. Unless their names are Luol, Sheldon, Christian, or Carlos.

Oops, my bad. We have had a lot of super-talented big men, K just doesn't draw up offenses to feed them the ball.

How the hell did he guy with the funny name win four national championships?

How does a response like this not become automatically locked and retired, placed for all the world to see on the Duke Basketball Report's all other threads, responses, and posts are listed below this gem that OldPhiKap posted on 12/1/14, where we freely acknowledge and accept that it is pointless for any other person to bother forever after, Elizabeth King Forum?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think I saw a different Mason...

-jk

I would hope people don't think that just because I point out Mason never developed a back to the basket, low post game I don't appreciate him as a good player. I'd do like him.

I went back to see what I could find on YouTube to refresh my memory and to see if maybe I just failed to remember his back to the basket game...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z4HpOCUsTw

In this one I see one nice back to the basket move with his feet in the paint...and it doesn't show the pass, looks like they picked it up after he backed the guy down.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2B904xd28Y4

Couple of nice back to the basket moves in this one, but initiated outside the paint.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arVeTva5JB8

In this one with the Nets, no back to the basket plays. Shows his great athleticism on pick and rolls and in transition.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPVMv7oXP0M

Team USA highlights...no low post moves.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aFpQSLuvkzQ

Career high night in the NBA, no low post plays, just his great athleticism on display again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GhambFs8sBg

Nope...none in this one...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bypBahsmBT0

Here's where he excels...nothing back to the basket.

There's more video's, but I think I've made my point.

[FerryFor50]

Hmmm...Zeller "chained to the post" is begging for a reply.



Well I can think of at least one time Zeller wasn't chained to the post...

4552

Too soon?

Then there was this time Zeller WAS chained to the post...

4553

I'm gonna go ahead and call scoreboard. ;)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Likewise, Kelly Olynyk is in Brad Stevens's doghouse, so Zeller is getting the start. Plumlee and Olynyk are both being sent a message by their respective coaches by having a lesser player take some of their minutes.

I can't say for sure all of the reasons that Mason is being shown the pine, but I know at least one reason is that he is shooting less than 50% from the line, which is not post-play specific.

I'll not argue that a better post game wouldn't compliment Mason's athleticism, but I don't think his lack of post moves tells the whole story.

I know, that was not a fair dig...just a knee jerk reply to the "chained to the post" comment.

With his size, strength and quickness, Mason could seal the low block against the best defenders in the league any time he wants. I imagine what could have been if Mason played back to the basket like Hansbrough, who, btw has way less size/athleticism...if he did that with his physical gifts, as an addition to his athletic transition and pick and roll skills....he could be an all star.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Well I can think of at least one time Zeller wasn't chained to the post...

4552

Too soon?

Then there was this time Zeller WAS chained to the post...

4553

I'm gonna go ahead and call scoreboard. ;)

Well played:)

Sorry to go off on yet another Mason rant. Back to "dancing bear" talk.....(snicker).

Looking forward to Wednesday's game.

[duke09hms]

Be honest. Mason could have been every bit as good as Okafor if Wojo could teach big men.

Oh wait, I forgot that K cannot recruit big men so we had to settle for Mason.

Sorry, I stand corrected. We recruit big guys, but we just use them to set screens. Unless their names are Luol, Sheldon, Christian, or Carlos.

Oops, my bad. We have had a lot of super-talented big men, K just doesn't draw up offenses to feed them the ball.

How the hell did he guy with the funny name win four national championships?

Luol was hardly a big man. Basically played the same position as Kyle Singler, and I'm not sure it's helping our argument if we're pointing to 5.5-6 guys in ~25 years as being good low post scorers (Laettner I count as 0.5-1 though I might be wrong since he was before my time, Brand, Boozer, Shelden, Plumlee, Okafor).

Though that is probably extremely good compared to just about every other school but perhaps not to our "peer programs" like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UCLA.

[tele]

Luol was hardly a big man. Basically played the same position as Kyle Singler, and I'm not sure it's helping our argument if we're pointing to 5.5-6 guys in ~25 years as being good low post scorers (Laettner I count as 0.5-1 though I might be wrong since he was before my time, Brand, Boozer, Shelden, Plumlee, Okafor).

Though that is probably extremely good compared to just about every other school but perhaps not to our "peer programs" like Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, UCLA.

Uh, you left out wisconsin? Guess the troll job was a success.

[arnie]

With his size, strength and quickness, Mason could seal the low block against the best defenders in the league any time he wants. I imagine what could have been if Mason played back to the basket like Hansbrough, who, btw has way less size/athleticism...if he did that with his physical gifts, as an addition to his athletic transition and pick and roll skills....he could be an all star.
Was curious when the great Hansbrough would be injected. If only the benched Mason could attain the high ceiling Hans has set in the NBA. If only Mason could score upwards of 3 pts per game with up to 3 rebounds. If only Mason had been coached along the way to excel in college but not the pros.

[duke09hms]

Uh, you left out wisconsin? Guess the troll job was a success.

Wisconsin is historically good, but I'm pretty sure it's not considered in the same breath as multiple title-winning programs ...

[FerryFor50]

Wisconsin is historically good, but I'm pretty sure it's not considered in the same breath as multiple title-winning programs ...

Titles != big man success

As for your list, Kansas's best bigs since Elton Brand was at Duke? Nick Collison, Morris twins, Thomas Robinson and a slew of tall uncoordinated shot blockers like Cole Aldrich, Sasha Kaun and Jeff Withey.

UCLA has had Kevin Love, but not much else (unless you count the Wear twins and Tony Parker)

Kentucky has had some recent success with bigs, but not much in the pre-Cal years outside of Chuck Hayes.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Was curious when the great Hansbrough would be injected....... If only Mason had been coached along the way to excel in college but not the pros.

Hansbrough arguably shouldn't even be in the NBA with his lack of athletism. His work around the basket got him there, along with his toughness.

To be clear, I 've never said/insinuated Mason wasn't "coached along the way". Ever.

He and coach K just decided to focus his game as a pick and roll/transition offensive player, and he is a very good one now in the NBA.

Certainly nothing wrong with that.

[Duvall]

Titles != big man success

As for your list, Kansas's best bigs since Elton Brand was at Duke? Nick Collison, Morris twins, Thomas Robinson and a slew of tall uncoordinated shot blockers like Cole Aldrich, Sasha Kaun and Jeff Withey.

UCLA has had Kevin Love, but not much else (unless you count the Wear twins and Tony Parker)

Kentucky has had some recent success with bigs, but not much in the pre-Cal years outside of Chuck Hayes.

Right, this should be a knowable fact, and the last time we had this discussion it seemed like the preps-to-pros era ensured that no school had a great recent history of producing elite big men. Kentucky is changing this now, but they are kind of unique in that regard.

[77devil]

Hansbrough arguably shouldn't even be in the NBA with his lack of athletism.

Truer words have never before been written.


His work around the basket got him there, along with his toughness.


That's one point of view. Others cite Hanswalk's frequent uncalled traveling in the Dome, and his ability to jump into opponents to draw fouls that should have been charges.

[sagegrouse]

Jah is Exhibit A of the advantages of being -- sorry guys to quote Dickie V. -- a "space eater." He is really coordinated for his size and has soft hands. When he gets the ball in position, he just turns and makes an easy shot. If he were 30 pounds lighter -- like Mason was -- he couldn't do that.

[jacone21]

There should be some sort of Godwin's law for Hansbrough so that when he is mentioned... the thread has to be closed.

[rsvman]

There should be some sort of Godwin's law for Hansbrough so that when he is mentioned... the thread has to be closed.

Love it!

What should we call it? Wheat's law? :cool:

[FerryFor50]

Love it!

What should we call it? Wheat's law? :cool:

How about "reaping the Wheat"?

4554

[Billy Dat]

I didn't realize that Dekker has been dealing with a bad ankle for over a month
http://host.madison.com/sports/columnists/jim_polzin/badgers-men-s-basketball-sam-dekker-says-recovery-from-ankle/article_f57e89a0-79b1-11e4-bcbb-2f175d7bc51d.html

Of course, Seth Curry was also dealing with a shin problem all 2012-13 and he managed to play 30 mpg and average 17 ppg so I guess we should ignore this storyline.

[Billy Dat]

Getting ready for the game, it's fun to dig into some descriptions of Bo Ryan's Swing Offense. Here's a good link but you can also watch lots of YouTube videos showing actual game footage

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/BoRyanSwingOffense.html

The more I think about it, this will be a really interesting chess match. The Swing provides ample opportunities for guard post ups. I can't say that I know Jackson and Gasser's games very well, but they will have a size advantage. Maybe Bo Ryan tries really hard to completely invert us by pulling Jah and Amile far away from the hoop and making Tyus and Cook defend on the block. If that's successful, maybe K is forced to go more with Rasheed and Matt to negate that size advantage. Our big guards may be really important for us tomorrow. But, it's a conundrum because I feel like Jones and Cook and Justise will be able to drive and finish/dish where that's not exactly Rasheed and Matt's strength. Don't get me wrong, Rasheed can get a head of steam and get to the rim, but he does, as someone else pointed out, dribble more like C-Well than T-Jones.

I also wonder if K will employ Team USA style offense to try and get the pace we want...lots of pushing the ball, and lots of shots in the first 10 seconds of the clock. We may have to swallow what look like bad early shot clock attempts as our squad tries to get that high possession game that favors us. Can we speed them up? The Swing is designed to be played against man-to-man with multiple counters depending on the pressure we bring. Can we get them to play faster than they want, or will they analyze and pick apart our pressure like surgeons?

[Clay Feet POF]

I’m looking for Tyus to be the Keystone in the win against Wisconsin. I think he purposely put his scoring offence on display in the Army game. Two thoughts:

1) He was warming up his scoring game both physical and mental.

2) This may give the Badgers concerns that he can change from an exclusively a pass first mentality and become a major scorer. This also may draw more defenders to him leading to more passing opportunities.

I believe Tyus is a much better 3 point shooter (not as good as Quinn) than he has shown, but it has not been a pressing need at this point.


Hoping to see the Marquette coaching staff (they have a vested interest) in attendance, especially Wojo, Tyler and Chris.

[subzero02]

As Billy Dat said, our big guards could play a pivotal role in this game. I really think Matt could have a significant impact with his defense and 3 point shooting(if it's falling). Btw, vegasinsider had us open a 3 point underdog... The vegasinsider consensus lists us as a 2.5 point underdog.

[MChambers]

I’m looking for Tyus to be the Keystone in the win against Wisconsin. I think he purposely put his scoring offence on display in the Army game. Two thoughts:

1) He was warming up his scoring game both physical and mental.

2) This may give the Badgers concerns that he can change from an exclusively a pass first mentality and become a major scorer. This also may draw more defenders to him leading to more passing opportunities.

I believe Tyus is a much better 3 point shooter (not as good as Quinn) than he has shown, but it has not been a pressing need at this point.


Hoping to see the Marquette coaching staff (they have a vested interest) in attendance, especially Wojo, Tyler and Chris.
Tyus's shot looked pretty good Sunday, although I think only one three pointer went in. At least two others were directly on line, but a bit long. Seems like that might bode well for the future, although I'd be surprised to see him drilling many threes tomorrow night. Happily surprised, of course.

[Billy Dat]

Tyus's shot looked pretty good Sunday, although I think only one three pointer went in. At least two others were directly on line, but a bit long. Seems like that might bode well for the future, although I'd be surprised to see him drilling many threes tomorrow night. Happily surprised, of course.

Any chance Tyus can channel the mystical 2007-Taylor-King-from-3-vs-Wisconsin juju?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA9vaJMG-Gk&t=2m53s

[MChambers]

Any chance Tyus can channel the mystical 2007-Taylor-King-from-3-vs-Wisconsin juju?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA9vaJMG-Gk&t=2m53s

I had pretty well forgotten that performance, and in fact Taylor King in general. Shows the danger of making judgments about players based on highlight reels, however.

[COYS]

I had pretty well forgotten that performance, and in fact Taylor King in general. Shows the danger of making judgments about players based on highlight reels, however.

That game was big for that Duke team. Coming off the 2007 season, Duke lost Josh McRoberts to the draft, whiffed on Patrick Patterson, and saw Brian Zoubek spend the summer recovering from an injury, preventing him from preparing for the upcoming season as we had all hoped. We had to start the undersized Lance Thomas and freshman small forward Kyle Singler in the post. Going into the game against a big Wiscy team, many wondered if Duke's serious lack of size (when Lance was off the court, DeMarcus or Gerald were often assigned to the opposing team's power forward) would make us too vulnerable. Instead, Duke came out guns blazing with a run-n-gun offense that burried the much larger Badgers. Taylor King's onslaught was fun to watch. I think we often think back on 2007/2008 as a bit of a disappointment given the narrow escape against Belmont and then the defeat to WVU in the NCAA Tourney, but that team had some really great moments. Regardless of how the season ended, the '08 team showed that the '06-'07 season was an aberration.

[Badger]

Hey guys, I'm a current senior at UW and I figured I would drop in to give you guys an overview of the Badgers this year.

This year's team is very well balanced as far as scoring output goes, with multiple players having games were they are tops in point on the team. In that respect it is pretty similar to last year. Wisconsin still plays Bo Ryan's brand of basketball, getting good shots and working halfcourt sets, but have also shown the ability to be a little more free flowing than years past. They can grind it out if they need to, but this team is much more aesthetically pleasing to watch than most would assume when hearing the words Wisconsin basketball. Someone posted about the Swing offense above, so feel free to check that out if you want the nitty gritty on how the offense works.

On defense, Wisconsin plays physical while not getting called for fouls very often. Everyone in the B1G complains about it when they have to play us, so prepare for some contact. Rebounding has been solid and we do a good job contesting shots. Nothing has really stood out to me as a concern so far on this end of the court. That being said, this team really isn't as good defensively as those from several years ago. We can get away with it due to the improved offense. In addition, we've had some trouble against good scoring PGs as well.

On to the players:

PG- Traevon Jackson 6'3"
Trae is probably the most controversial player on our team. Either love him or hate him it seems, often both in the same game. He has stretches were he plays extremely well, only to make a thoughtless play by trying to do too much or throwing a lazy pass. He will generally drive the floor early in a possession looking for an easy score on the break and usually (hopefully) pull it out if nothing is there. This is often where he gets in trouble, dribbling through traffic or getting ahead of himself. He's a decent defender but has been burned a few times this year. All that being said, he penetrates into the lane pretty well and is really a good floor leader when he's on. His shot hasn't been falling this season (missed some gimme layups and 3's aren't falling) but he's a senior and has hit a number of huge shots for us over the years. He's clutch with the pull up jumper from within the arc and has hit multiple game winners in my time here. Look for him to have the ball the last 30 seconds of halves.

SG- Josh Gasser 6'4"
Josh is an under appreciated player in my opinion. He's a 5th year senior and has had a plethora of roles in his time at UW. He is probably our best 3 point shooter this year as well as an exceptional free throw shooter. Gasser is our best defensive guard and will take assignments from Trae if he gets overwhelmed. Josh plays the role of glue guy, and does just about everything well, don't be surprised to see him go to the post if the opportunity presents itself. Generally will only shoot when wide open, often on 3's.

SF- Sam Dekker 6'9"
Sam is somewhat frustrating to watch play. At times he is absolutely dominant while at others he can be very passive. Dekker pissed off or in the zone is a great player. This summer did wonders for his size, as he grew two inches and put on muscle. When he is driving to the hoop he is extremely hard to stop and has shown some legit NBA moves this year. He is pretty strong so don't be surprised to see him in the post fairly often He can hit 3's but he is very streaky and has struggled from there this year. He plays solid defense for the most part, and his size has helped him with that. For him it is seemingly all a confidence issue, almost like he is trying too hard not to mess up. He has been struggling with his ankle this season, so that might explain some of it. If he is healthy and confident though he can be a game changer.

This is getting long so I'll split to a new post...

[NYBri]

Devils by 8.

No worries.

[Dukehky]

I have never thought and will never think that the hostility of the crowd has anything to do with how a team plays. The only thing that I feel can make a difference is noise, and Cameron gets louder than any other arena in the country, so not that big of a deal. If anything I have always felt like the more hostile the arena the more fired up the road team is. I played some pretty intense high school basketball in NC, and I could not have cared less if the crowd chanted that I sucked. Just as I'm sure Okafor won't care if the Kohl center chants Okafor sucks the whole game. Even as a Crazy myself, I never had any illusion that what I said had any impact on the opposite team, but rather could potentially help encourage Duke, and well, because K would tell me to be louder. Far more than the crowd is the depth perception of the building, the stiffness of the rims, the lighting of the gym. Cameron has notoriously soft rims and is one of the few places in the country without a basket stanchion. That's tricky.

I just saw a bunch of people saying the hostile crowd was going to be a big issue, and I don't think it will. I think that it will get our guys jacked up more than anything, but since it's the first one, maybe it will be too much fire.

Honestly, I think we win by a pretty good amount. I think we are better at every position except for the 4; I like Nigel Hayes a lot.

[-jk]

Hey guys, I'm a current senior at UW and I figured I would drop in to give you guys an overview of the Badgers this year.

This year's team is very well balanced as far as scoring output goes, with multiple players having games were they are tops in point on the team. In that respect it is pretty similar to last year. Wisconsin still plays Bo Ryan's brand of basketball, getting good shots and working halfcourt sets, but have also shown the ability to be a little more free flowing than years past. They can grind it out if they need to, but this team is much more aesthetically pleasing to watch than most would assume when hearing the words Wisconsin basketball. Someone posted about the Swing offense above, so feel free to check that out if you want the nitty gritty on how the offense works.

On defense, Wisconsin plays physical while not getting called for fouls very often. Everyone in the B1G complains about it when they have to play us, so prepare for some contact. Rebounding has been solid and we do a good job contesting shots. Nothing has really stood out to me as a concern so far on this end of the court. That being said, this team really isn't as good defensively as those from several years ago. We can get away with it due to the improved offense. In addition, we've had some trouble against good scoring PGs as well.

On to the players:

PG- Traevon Jackson 6'3"
Trae is probably the most controversial player on our team. Either love him or hate him it seems, often both in the same game. He has stretches were he plays extremely well, only to make a thoughtless play by trying to do too much or throwing a lazy pass. He will generally drive the floor early in a possession looking for an easy score on the break and usually (hopefully) pull it out if nothing is there. This is often where he gets in trouble, dribbling through traffic or getting ahead of himself. He's a decent defender but has been burned a few times this year. All that being said, he penetrates into the lane pretty well and is really a good floor leader when he's on. His shot hasn't been falling this season (missed some gimme layups and 3's aren't falling) but he's a senior and has hit a number of huge shots for us over the years. He's clutch with the pull up jumper from within the arc and has hit multiple game winners in my time here. Look for him to have the ball the last 30 seconds of halves.

SG- Josh Gasser 6'4"
Josh is an under appreciated player in my opinion. He's a 5th year senior and has had a plethora of roles in his time at UW. He is probably our best 3 point shooter this year as well as an exceptional free throw shooter. Gasser is our best defensive guard and will take assignments from Trae if he gets overwhelmed. Josh plays the role of glue guy, and does just about everything well, don't be surprised to see him go to the post if the opportunity presents itself. Generally will only shoot when wide open, often on 3's.

SF- Sam Dekker 6'9"
Sam is somewhat frustrating to watch play. At times he is absolutely dominant while at others he can be very passive. Dekker pissed off or in the zone is a great player. This summer did wonders for his size, as he grew two inches and put on muscle. When he is driving to the hoop he is extremely hard to stop and has shown some legit NBA moves this year. He is pretty strong so don't be surprised to see him in the post fairly often He can hit 3's but he is very streaky and has struggled from there this year. He plays solid defense for the most part, and his size has helped him with that. For him it is seemingly all a confidence issue, almost like he is trying too hard not to mess up. He has been struggling with his ankle this season, so that might explain some of it. If he is healthy and confident though he can be a game changer.

This is getting long so I'll split to a new post...

Thanks for the review. What do you see as Wisconsin's rebuttal to Jah Okafor? He's been the ACC's frosh of the week all season. And to Justise Winslow?

-jk

[weezie]

Devils by 8.

No worries.

Yah, if there's one thing Blue Devil teams are used to, it's hostile environs. The more the merrier!

[Badger]

PF Nigel Hayes 6'8"
Nigel has been having a great second season. He was a main option off the bench for us last year and has really improved his game over the summer. Last year he was a bruiser in the paint and could be counted on to hit the baseline jumper. This year he has extended his range to the three point line. He'll shoot a few threes a game at a decent clip. He is a pretty reliable spot up jump shooter within the arc as well. Most of his damage comes from the post as he has some good post moves (and strength) on the low block and can drive or shoot from the mid post area. He gets to the line at the highest rate of anyone on the team and shoots 70%, up from 51% last year. Again, he is a solid defender but he has been a beast on the glass for us. He probably needs to work on his handle and foot speed if he wants an NBA future. I feel comfortable saying he is probably our most dependable second option, ahead of Dekker.

Frank Kaminsky 7'0"
Everyone has been talking about Frank the Tank vs Jahlil. Frank is an offensive weapon. He can post up and has an arsenal of moves to go to. He can pick and pop. He can put the ball on the floor and drive through contact. He can shoot the 3 (40%). Overall, Frank is a very reliable option to throw the ball to and get points. Frank grew a lot in highschool so he retained a lot of perimeter skills, as he also passes very well for his size. He rebounds very well and is a good man and help defender. He won't block a ton of shots but he will alter them. However, he does have flaws. His FT shooting has taken a dip to 60% this year. He also tends to struggle against players that have a lot more strength than him. Point to the game against Georgetown (6'10" 300+ Joshua Smith) and last year against Kentucky for examples. Probably don't need to say more as there is tons out on him.


The Bench

6'4" Bronson Koenig
Bronson is our first guard off the bench. He is a sophomore PG who sees the court very well. Although his season percentage may not show it, he is a good shooter with a nice stroke. He gets most of his points off of set jump shots and pull up jumpers, and he is definitely not as much of a threat to drive as Trae is. That being said he has really nice vision, and is probably better at running the offense than Trae. When he does get into the lane he will usually find the open player rather than shoot. Look for him to try to make some nice passes and at times throw in some flair.

6' 10" Duje Dukan
Duje will come in for any of Dekker/Hayes/Kaminsky, but usually for Dekker of late. He shoots the 3 at a high clip (42%) and serves as some offense off of the bench. He got a late start to the season after an eligibility mishap (read NCAA stupidity), but has really come into his own the last few games. He'll do most of his damage from range. He will play in the post from time to time, often facing up and driving or passing out. He isn't in the paint very often but he rebounds pretty well. His D is much improved but probably not at the level of Hayes/Kaminsky.

The rotation hopefully ends there for the Badgers. However, with foul trouble you may see:

6'8" Vitto Brown
He'll come in an give you energy and rebounding. Most of his points have been on put backs and attempts close to the hoop. We don't generally run much for him as his offense is a work in progress. A lot of the time the game seems like it is too fast for him, but he's only a sophomore and has shown some flashes from time to time.

6'2" Zak Showalter
Guy has hops. Another high energy guy, tries to dunk on anything with a pulse. Actually had a couple really nice plays for us in Atlantis, including a really nice put back dunk. Lacks a dependable shot and outside game but he isn't really asked to do much outside of run the offense for a few minutes max a game. Add him to the work in progress list.



I doubt you see anyone else play on Wednesday and hopefully that means it was a great/close game! I wasn't able to score tickets, but I'm sure the Kohl Center will be wild. I'm excited to see Jahlil play. As an Illinois native (Rockford), I've been able to see a lot of great talent come through the state the last few years. I'm really happy to be playing you guys, I've always really liked Duke basketball (plus tons Duke players have been on the Bulls) and my little brother applied there for college a few weeks ago. Best of luck and sorry for any grammar/spelling errors.

And yes, Wisconsin still use Sterling basketballs, Bo is an endorser.

[slower]

Honestly, I think we win by a pretty good amount.

Okay, I think this may be our first appearance this season of irrational over-confidence. This will be a trial by fire. A Duke win by anything more than single digits would be shocking. Of course, I'd love to be shocked. :D

[Dukehky]

Okay, I think this may be our first appearance this season of irrational over-confidence. This will be a trial by fire. A Duke win by anything more than single digits would be shocking. Of course, I'd love to be shocked. :D

I'm much happier thinking that we can go into Kohl and win than like last year going in to the Joel and thinking we were probably going to lose to Wake... Not irrational, I just think Wisconsin pulled out close wins against teams that just aren't even close to the same level as Duke. If they rain down 3's they can win, but outside of that, I think Duke takes this one.

[Duvall]

I'm much happier going thinking that we can go into Kohl and win than like last year going in to the Joel and thinking we were probably going to lose to Wake...

Okay, but still. What makes you think Duke can guard a team that can shoot? Their defense hasn't really been tested yet, and combined with playing a top-5 team on the road...

[slower]

I'm much happier thinking that we can go into Kohl and win than like last year going in to the Joel and thinking we were probably going to lose to Wake... Not irrational, I just think Wisconsin pulled out close wins against teams that just aren't even close to the same level as Duke. If they rain down 3's they can win, but outside of that, I think Duke takes this one.

I certainly hope you're correct. My emotional survival strategy is to hope for the best, but expect the worst.

[OldPhiKap]

Excellent breakdown Badger, thanks. Really like Bo Ryan and the program he has built. Hope y'all have a great year, love to see a rematch in the FF.

Please come back and post if a topic grabs you, we cover a pretty wide swath here and have a number of non-Duke posters (mainly ACC).

Oh, and beat the crap out of Maryland for us, thanks in advance.

[Badger]

Thanks for the review. What do you see as Wisconsin's rebuttal to Jah Okafor? He's been the ACC's frosh of the week all season. And to Justise Winslow?

-jk

I really like Jahlil's game. Tons of bigs use athleticism as a crutch for a poor offensive game. He actually has great moves around the basket coupled with underrated athleticism. I think he will be a hard matchup for Hayes or Kaminsky. They'll likely put Kaminsky on him. Frank plays good man D and doesn't bite easily on fakes. However, he is giving up a good 30 pounds, and he has struggled before with size.

On the offensive side of the ball I see them going at him with Frank and Hayes. Both are crafty around the basket with pump fakes and have good patience. I think the MO will be to try to get him to bite and get in foul trouble. They can both step out to 3 which opens up the jump shot and the drive if he sags off. It'll be a good test for Jahlil.

Ultimately I think it will come down to fouls. If Jahlil gets Frank and Hayes in trouble I'm scared to see what he would do to Vitto Brown.

I really don't know a ton about Justise, I haven't seen much about outside of what I can pull up on google.

[Dev11]

On defense, Wisconsin plays physical while not getting called for fouls very often. Everyone in the B1G complains about it when they have to play us, so prepare for some contact.

Oh don't worry, we never complain about overly physical dudes who don't get called for fouls. Never had a guy like that in the ACC for four horrible traveling years.

Seriously, thanks for the big rundown. Feel free to stick around the DBR and keep the conversation going even after this week.

[OldPhiKap]

I think this will be a fun game more than anything from my perspective. With this young a team, we will be SUCH a different team come March that this is more of a measuring stick than anything else. And not a particularly meaningful measure at that. More useful for what the coaches can show on tape and teach than anything else.

[Dukehky]

Okay, but still. What makes you think Duke can guard a team that can shoot? Their defense hasn't really been tested yet, and combined with playing a top-5 team on the road...

I think that Duke's biggest weakness defensively is still containing the dribble drive of explosive guards, and when that penetration comes, we get torched on the perimeter. I don't think Wisconsin has that type of player. K can coach strategy better than anyone, which is what I see Wiscy's offense as being, it's execution, and I think Duke has shown all year that it can disrupt execution. The issue is stopping the offense when things break down.

I expect to see a lot less of the Tyus Quinn combo tomorrow than we've seen a lot of the year. A lot of Quinn or Tyus and Rasheed whose only role tomorrow night will be to harass the ball handler. Really, if Justise stays out of foul trouble, I think our defense will do just fine.


I certainly hope you're correct. My emotional survival strategy is to hope for the best, but expect the worst.

Come on man, it's Duke basketball, not Georgia football. You don't have to expect the worst, it rarely happens :)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

On the offensive side of the ball I see them going at him with Frank and Hayes. Both are crafty around the basket with pump fakes and have good patience. I think the MO will be to try to get him to bite and get in foul trouble. They can both step out to 3 which opens up the jump shot and the drive if he sags off. It'll be a good test for Jahlil.


Thanks for taking the time to post some good thoughts on your team.

This is how I see the Badgers trying to deal with Okafor too....he has shown he will leave his feet defensively, but he has been smart about it and avoided fouling... so far. If he leaves his feet in this one, those crafty guys inside you spoke of know how to draw fouls.

The good news for Duke fans is that Okafor has great balance along with his size. He can leave his feet more than some and not lose control of his body, which is what gets guys in trouble.

It will be interesting to see if Okafor, and let's not forget he's still a freshman, has the discipline and maturity at this point in his game to avoid foul trouble in this one.

Hot shooting, either side, can turn a game, but I'm thinking this game will be decided inside.

[Dukehky]

Thanks for taking the time to post some good thoughts on your team.

This is how I see the Badgers trying to deal with Okafor too....he has shown he will leave his feet defensively, but he has been smart about it and avoided fouling... so far. If he leaves his feet in this one, those crafty guys inside you spoke of know how to draw fouls.

The good news for Duke fans is that Okafor has great balance along with his size. He can leave his feet more than some and not lose control of his body, which is what gets guys in trouble.

It will be interesting to see if Okafor, and let's not forget he's still a freshman, has the discipline and maturity at this point in his game to avoid foul trouble in this one.

Hot shooting, either side, can turn a game, but I'm thinking this game will be decided inside.

Frank is going to fall over every time Jah turns, so if the refs call charges, game changed. He will flop, he is smart. That doesn't mean the refs have to be stupid though.

[Duvall]

Frank is going to fall over every time Jah turns, so if the refs call charges, game changed. He will flop, he is smart. That doesn't mean the refs have to be stupid though.

Yeah, it does. Good practice for the trip to Chapel Hill, though.

[Duke95]

My head says Wisconsin by 10. Wisconsin is a tough and experienced team playing at home.

My heart says Duke by 1 on a last-second Sulaimon shot.

[bbosbbos]

Let us try our best tomorrow. No turnover, no stupid layup, be disciplined, K will take care of the rest.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Frank is going to fall over every time Jah turns, so if the refs call charges, game changed. He will flop, he is smart. That doesn't mean the refs have to be stupid though.

How the refs call the game could have a big impact in this one, for sure.

Players will have to adjust if it's tightly called, or if they let them play physical.

Who knows? It seems we never know until about midway through the first half how they are gonna call it any given game.

[jacone21]

Y'all think we'll break out the blacks or the blues? I'm hoping for the blues.

[Edouble]

My head says Wisconsin by 10. Wisconsin is a tough and experienced team playing at home.

My heart says Duke by 1 on a last-second Sulaimon shot.

Neither of these is happening. If we lose, which we won't, it's not gonna be by more than a few points. Our defense will keep us in this game.

If we win, I hope that Sheed is not the one taking the last shot. It should be Quinn for 3, a Justise/Matt Jones drive, or Okafor inside.

[Billy Dat]

This feels like a Team USA vs Spain or Russia type game...speed and athleticism vs size and execution.

As such, I wonder how much we'll pick up full court. I feel like we should pick up full from the first made basket.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Typically, this is a game in prior seasons where I would say it would be a good loss for these youngsters. A good learning experience I guess you could say. But to be honest I am sick and tired of the true road game talk, and the last 5 years of losing our first true road game. I also think this team learns more from winning. The older players know what its like to lose these games, that should be enough. For the Freshman I think they need to know nothing but winning. I'm not saying that we need to go undefeated, that's unrealistic. But this team needs to learn that killer instinct that separates it from past Duke teams over the last few years. If these freshman and this team go into Wisconsin and get a win, it will be huge for us and will set the tone for what kind of a team they can be. Lets get this BIG W

[CDu]

Typically, this is a game in prior seasons where I would say it would be a good loss for these youngsters. A good learning experience I guess you could say. But to be honest I am sick and tired of the true road game talk, and the last 5 years of losing our first true road game. I also think this team learns more from winning. The older players know what its like to lose these games, that should be enough. For the Freshman I think they need to know nothing but winning. I'm not saying that we need to go undefeated, that's unrealistic. But this team needs to learn that killer instinct that separates it from past Duke teams over the last few years. If these freshman and this team go into Wisconsin and get a win, it will be huge for us and will set the tone for what kind of a team they can be. Lets get this BIG W

I agree. There are certainly instances where losing can be educationally beneficial. I don't think that is the case for this team. As you've said, the upperclassmen have tasted enough defeat (no ACC titles, no Final Fours) to be sick of that. Beating a top-ranked, well-coached, talented, and experienced team like Wisconsin at their place would do wonders for this team's confidence.

We have the talent to make it happen. So let's win this darn game!

[Billy Dat]

But to be honest I am sick and tired of the true road game talk, and the last 5 years of losing our first true road game.

I agree, the "not a bad loss" cliche isn't an incorrect or inappropriate post-loss rationalization, but it still sucks.

As for the "true road game" storyline, that one aint going away with any more losses. The reporters were hammering Amile with that theme after Monday's practice, it starts at the 2:30 mark and goes on longer than it needs to. Amile answers as best he can.

http://www.goduke.com//mediaPortal/player.dbml?POPOUT=1&db_oem_id=4200&id=3572422&catid=NaN&start=6.101

[COYS]

I agree. There are certainly instances where losing can be educationally beneficial. I don't think that is the case for this team. As you've said, the upperclassmen have tasted enough defeat (no ACC titles, no Final Fours) to be sick of that. Beating a top-ranked, well-coached, talented, and experienced team like Wisconsin at their place would do wonders for this team's confidence.

We have the talent to make it happen. So let's win this darn game!

It would be a really incredible win, to be quite frank. Wisconsin is a really tough place to go in and get a win for anyone . . . especially when the Badgers are as talented as they are this year.

I'm looking for us to stay disciplined and consistent on defense. Wisconsin is the type of team that continues to work on offense for every second of the shot clock. We're going to need good defense for the full 35 seconds on a lot of possessions. I feel that, while we've improved on defense, our guards struggle to be consistent on knowing when to switch, when to ice, and when to stay with their man on screens. Wisconsin will make us pay if we defend the first 6 screens of a possession well, but bungle it on the 7th.

Also, while I want to establish Jahlil in the post, I think we're going to have to have good three point shooting. Wisconsin's perimeter is big enough that the help defenders near Jahlil will sag off our other players to crowd the lane for Jahlil while also thinking they can use their size to recover quickly to our shooters. Quinn, Matt, Justise, Tyus, and Rasheed will need to be quick and accurate with their shots when they get kick-outs so that we can make Wisconsin pay for crowding-out Jahlil. We've also run a play a number of times this year where Jahlil slips a screen for one of our guards on the wing before cutting to the basket. We've only managed to get him the ball once or twice on that play, but I really like it, as it is unexpected and the opposing team's big guy is stuck for a split second not knowing whether to step out on our guard or recover to defend Jahlil. I'd like to see us run this play with Jahlil, but also with Justise as the (fake) screener. Getting the ball to Justise with a little space only 15 feet from the basket can only lead to good things. However, these sets work best when the opposing team is preoccupied with stepping out on our guards to prevent the three point shot. Knocking a few shots down early will really open up the floor.

Finally, I really want to see Tyus work his transition magic and turn every rebound into a potential easy score. I love Amile's rebounding, but I hope that he and Tyus show just a little bit more chemistry on getting Tyus the ball on outlets as fast as possible. Tyus usually does a good job getting himself into a good position to receive the outlet pass and push the ball up the floor, but Amile has been (understandably) cautious most of the time after grabbing a board. I don't Amile or Tyus to become reckless trying to push the ball after a defensive rebound, but there have been a few times when a quick outlet could have set up an easy bucket, but Amile either couldn't find Tyus in time or decided the pass was too risky. I know this seems like picking nits over a guy who has been our best rebounder so far, but with Amile's ability on the boards, if he can improve his outlet passing, I think it can open up a few extra opportunities for easy scores on the break. In an away game against a team like the Badgers, that extra bucket or two could be the difference.

[mattman91]

Y'all think we'll break out the blacks or the blues? I'm hoping for the blues.

I think I am the only Duke fan that likes the blacks.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It's been a common statement here, especially by Wheat and other non-Duke fans, that Okafor is key to the game. And they're right. But so is Frank the Tank.

Frank accounts for 22% of Wisconsin's scoring, 24% of its rebounding, and 74% of minutes at the 5. In comparison, Jahlil accounts for 20% of Duke's scoring, 20% of our rebounding, and 69% of minutes at the 5.

Both players are incredibly important to their respective teams, but I'd argue that Frank to Wisconsin is more important than Jahlil to Duke. If you think that Wisconsin will try and get the Oak in foul trouble, I can guarantee that Duke will do the same with the Tank.

[Duke95]

I think I am the only Duke fan that likes the blacks.

LOL. Uh, you may want to re-word that.

[Dev11]

According to a tweet from Dan Shulman, he's calling the game tonight with Bilas. Has Bilas replaced Vitale as the #1 color guy or does Vitale remain in hibernation until the scintillating, sensational ACC season?

For a lot of the flak that ESPN gets for having blowhards all over its networks, Shulman-Bilas and Fowler-Herbstreit hold down the top college games as well as we could ask for.

[flyingdutchdevil]

According to a tweet from Dan Shulman, he's calling the game tonight with Bilas. Has Bilas replaced Vitale as the #1 color guy or does Vitale remain in hibernation until the scintillating, sensational ACC season?

For a lot of the flak that ESPN gets for having blowhards all over its networks, Shulman-Bilas and Fowler-Herbstreit hold down the top college games as well as we could ask for.

Shulman-Bilas is calling the game! Awesome.

Too bad I'm watching the game in a bar :(

Bar games are great when Vitale is calling it.

[1 24 90]

According to a tweet from Dan Shulman, he's calling the game tonight with Bilas. Has Bilas replaced Vitale as the #1 color guy or does Vitale remain in hibernation until the scintillating, sensational ACC season?

For a lot of the flak that ESPN gets for having blowhards all over its networks, Shulman-Bilas and Fowler-Herbstreit hold down the top college games as well as we could ask for.

Vitale is doing the unc game. Also, Vitale is not doing all of the Saturday Gameday games this year either. I think he may be doing some but not all.

[Duvall]

According to a tweet from Dan Shulman, he's calling the game tonight with Bilas. Has Bilas replaced Vitale as the #1 color guy or does Vitale remain in hibernation until the scintillating, sensational ACC season?

For a lot of the flak that ESPN gets for having blowhards all over its networks, Shulman-Bilas and Fowler-Herbstreit hold down the top college games as well as we could ask for.

Bilas and Herbstreit aren't blowhards?

Yes, Bilas is now ESPN's lead analyst. (http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/11/mens-college-basketball-all-star-commentator-lineup-on-espns-extensive-2014-15-coverage/)

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

I agree, the "not a bad loss" cliche isn't an incorrect or inappropriate post-loss rationalization, but it still sucks.

As for the "true road game" storyline, that one aint going away with any more losses. The reporters were hammering Amile with that theme after Monday's practice, it starts at the 2:30 mark and goes on longer than it needs to. Amile answers as best he can.

http://www.goduke.com//mediaPortal/player.dbml?POPOUT=1&db_oem_id=4200&id=3572422&catid=NaN&start=6.101

The older guys have got to be sick of this right? If we are sick of it, I would assume the program and the players are using it as motivation. Or maybe coach K is not bringing it up at all I don't know. I know that Quinn if anyone would use this as motivation to go out there and just go crazy tonight, at least that is my hope. I expect Quinn to carry this team tonight with leadership and scoring.

[plimnko]

just go out and play well.....good hardnose defense, execute on offense, and make free throws. win or lose, build on it. it's a long season and i have a feeling we'll see these guys again.

[flyingdutchdevil]

just go out and play well.....good hardnose defense, execute on offense, and make free throws. win or lose, build on it. it's a long season and i have a feeling we'll see these guys again.

Whilst I agree with the beginning part, I completely disagree that it's a long season. The season is nearly 20% done. NBA is long; college is short.

In college, the learning curve needs to be steep due to the length of the season.

Win or loss today, I hope that we take a lot from it. ACC is just around the corner.

[Billy Dat]

It's been a common statement here, especially by Wheat and other non-Duke fans, that Okafor is key to the game. And they're right. But so is Frank the Tank.

Frank accounts for 22% of Wisconsin's scoring, 24% of its rebounding, and 74% of minutes at the 5. In comparison, Jahlil accounts for 20% of Duke's scoring, 20% of our rebounding, and 69% of minutes at the 5.

Both players are incredibly important to their respective teams, but I'd argue that Frank to Wisconsin is more important than Jahlil to Duke. If you think that Wisconsin will try and get the Oak in foul trouble, I can guarantee that Duke will do the same with the Tank.

Rob Dauster of NBC Sports.com does a nice Tank v Jah-as-the-fulcrum-around-which-this-game-revolves breakdown
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/03/watching-tape-a-breakdown-of-okafor-vs-kaminsky-duke-wisconsins-key-matchup/

[NSDukeFan]

It would be a really incredible win, to be quite frank. Wisconsin is a really tough place to go in and get a win for anyone . . . especially when the Badgers are as talented as they are this year.

I agree completely, and you could make the argument that Wisconsin might never have been this talented. It will be quite an achievement for anyone to win there this year. Hopefully, Duke will.

I'm looking for us to stay disciplined and consistent on defense. Wisconsin is the type of team that continues to work on offense for every second of the shot clock. We're going to need good defense for the full 35 seconds on a lot of possessions. I feel that, while we've improved on defense, our guards struggle to be consistent on knowing when to switch, when to ice, and when to stay with their man on screens. Wisconsin will make us pay if we defend the first 6 screens of a possession well, but bungle it on the 7th.
This is why I believe that if Duke plays hard and plays focused, they can still benefit from a loss, seeing how important each possession is when playing the top teams in the country. I would agree they would get more benefit, and we would get more joy, from a big win like this, but a strong loss would potentially be about as satisfying to me as any non-Michigan St. result so far this year.

[sagegrouse]

Duke convinced Doug Gottlieb that is was "alarmingly unathletic" in a 69-73 loss to the Badgers. I am expecting to win, but I like the way the "unathletic" 2010 team turned out.

[Duvall]

Duke convinced Doug Gottlieb that is was "alarmingly unathletic" in a 69-73 loss to the Badgers. I am expecting to win, but I like the way the "unathletic" 2010 team turned out.

Gottlieb's comments actually came after Duke's *win* against Arizona State the week before.

[sagegrouse]

Gottlieb's comments actually came after Duke's *win* against Arizona State the week before.

You're right -- memory is a funny thing, as a NY Times Op Ed said a few days ago.

[kAzE]

Well, it cost me an arm and a leg to get tickets, but I'm going to the game tonight! WOOHOO!! Anyone else gonna be there?

[Kedsy]

Well, it cost me an arm and a leg to get tickets, but I'm going to the game tonight! WOOHOO!! Anyone else gonna be there?

Nice. That's a good score. Could be the game of the year (regular season).

[tbyers11]

Well, it cost me an arm and a leg to get tickets, but I'm going to the game tonight! WOOHOO!! Anyone else gonna be there?

I'll be there. Psyched for the game. Grew up here just outside Madison. My sister and a lot of my high school friends went to Wisconsin. Hope the outcome will be better than 5 years ago.

[superdave]

This reminds me of a good ol' fashioned Duke-Unc game where both teams have a lot of talent and are well-coached. The game should have a few momentum shifts and the team that is best able to make their opponent play their brand of basketball will win. If Wisco can play slow and physical, they win. If Duke can speed things up and rely more on athleticism, we should win.

Looking forward to learning a lot about our team tonight.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This reminds me of a good ol' fashioned Duke-Unc game where both teams have a lot of talent and are well-coached. The game should have a few momentum shifts and the team that is best able to make their opponent play their brand of basketball will win. If Wisco can play slow and physical, they win. If Duke can speed things up and rely more on athleticism, we should win.

Looking forward to learning a lot about our team tonight.

If we win, a few players will be getting a crazy amount of praise. My money is on Sulaimon or Matt Jones.

If we lose, a few players are going to get slated. My guess would be Quinn Cook, who will finish the game with 6 assists but 1 turnover that DBR will talk about for the next 6 days, and 8-11 shooting but 1 of the 3 misses was an ill-advised 3pt shot.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If we win, a few players will be getting a crazy amount of praise. My money is on Sulaimon or Matt Jones.

If we lose, a few players are going to get slated. My guess would be Quinn Cook, who will finish the game with 6 assists but 1 turnover that DBR will talk about for the next 6 days, and 8-11 shooting but 1 of the 3 misses was an ill-advised 3pt shot.

I know it's not a stretch, but I think it's all about Okafor in this one, both sides of the court.

But I also think that we could be talking about Cooks shooting if Duke wins.

Here's to a good game, either way.

Edit to add...if you guys are also watching the UNC/Iowa game, check out UNC's defense.

[CDu]

Well, it cost me an arm and a leg to get tickets, but I'm going to the game tonight! WOOHOO!! Anyone else gonna be there?

Congrats! I would love to catch a Duke game there, and this is about as big-time a game as can be! Have fun. Hope you have reason to celebrate after!

[mgtr]

This reminds me of a good ol' fashioned Duke-Unc game where both teams have a lot of talent and are well-coached. The game should have a few momentum shifts and the team that is best able to make their opponent play their brand of basketball will win. If Wisco can play slow and physical, they win. If Duke can speed things up and rely more on athleticism, we should win.

Looking forward to learning a lot about our team tonight.

So, would you say that Wisconsin is "alarmingly unathletic"? :)

[mr. synellinden]

Anyone think the Okafor-Kaminsky matchup is a little reminiscent of the Shaq-Laettner matchup in 1991 (http://articles.latimes.com/1991-02-11/sports/sp-767_1_o-neal-and-beats-lsu)?

Arguably the most dominant center/post presence vs. the versatile/skilled 7 footer who can shoot three and put it on the deck. On the versatile big man's home court.

Hoping for a different result.

[NSDukeFan]

Anyone think the Okafor-Kaminsky matchup is a little reminiscent of the Shaq-Laettner matchup in 1991 (http://articles.latimes.com/1991-02-11/sports/sp-767_1_o-neal-and-beats-lsu)?

Arguably the most dominant center/post presence vs. the versatile/skilled 7 footer who can shoot three and put it on the deck. On the versatile big man's home court.

Hoping for a different result.

I was certainly thinking about that, though Kaminsky would be a broke man's Laettner in terms of accomplishments.

[MChambers]

So, would you say that Wisconsin is "alarmingly unathletic"? :)
How ironic to be the more athletic team in a battle of top five teams. Hope Coach K can figure out how to coach an athletic team.;)

[weezie]

I am not having any luck trying to get into chat :(

[Dukehky]

All of this as long as we play hard I don't care if we lose is a load of horse honkey. If we lose, it sucks. We all complain and no one is happy. Maybe Calipari thinks losses are good, but K doesn't. Winning is better in every conceivable way and I will not be happy or content in any way if Duke loses, nor will the vast majority of people on this board.


All that being said, let's go stomp a mud hole in ole Wiscy

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Wisconsin ...

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-wisconsin-basketball-live-stats-12032014

[-jk]

I am not having any luck trying to get into chat :(

Try doing a refresh or a different browser. We have 19 chatters just now.

-jk

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Frank = ouch

[kshepinthehouse]

Phantom travel called on Winslow, anyone else see that? A few interesting calls already.

No call on plumlee outback and no call on Sheeds drive to the basket.

[arnie]

Phantom travel called on Winslow, anyone else see that? A few interesting calls already.

No call on plumlee outback and no call on Sheeds drive to the basket.

Kind of a fun game to watch. Where did Amile find those shots? We're obviously much quicker and seem confident. Think we can slow down on Winslow accolades; he's good but has lots to work on.

[Duke95]

Great game so far. I'm very happy with our Blue Devils. Quin has improved by leaps and bounds over last year. So has Amile.

[duketaylor]

Very entertaining 1st with 2 very good teams. K actually flashed some zone using Marshall on the perimeter to extend Wisky further out and prevent 3s, just didn't work too well. Duke's changed up D a fair amount so far with assignments and styles. Good to see 'Sheed hit a few shots. Two/three crappy calls in a row with about 5 minutes left, especially the Justise walk, no walk, should've been a bucket and maybe even a FT to follow. Quinn drove inside and had nowhere to go with it. But, overall, very decent half. Our D is much improved this year as is our passing. Not much to complain about so far.

GO DUKE!!!

9F, 9F, 9F!!! How 'bout those heels;)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Good half. 20 more minutes!

[arnie]

Very entertaining 1st with 2 very good teams. K actually flashed some zone using Marshall on the perimeter to extend Wisky further out and prevent 3s, just didn't work too well. Duke's changed up D a fair amount so far with assignments and styles. Good to see 'Sheed hit a few shots. Two/three crappy calls in a row with about 5 minutes left, especially the Justise walk, no walk, should've been a bucket and maybe even a FT to follow. Quinn drove inside and had nowhere to go with it. But, overall, very decent half. Our D is much improved this year as is our passing. Not much to complain about so far.

GO DUKE!!!

9F, 9F, 9F!!! How 'bout those heels;)

Yes, life is good.

[kshepinthehouse]

Tyus getting burnt on d

[CDu]

Another statement game from Tyus Jones. All the talk about Winslow and Okafor, but let's not forget the "third" freshman is pretty darn good too.

[FerryFor50]

Tyus getting burnt on d

Making up for it on offense.

Sulaimon is playing great, too.

Winslow is struggling a bit, but others are picking him up.

Great game so far, outside of that awful charge call on Jones.

[Duke3517]

Making up for it on offense.

Sulaimon is playing great, too.

Winslow is struggling a bit, but others are picking him up.

Great game so far, outside of that awful charge call on Jones.

Wisconsin can't handle Duke's quick guards. They can't keep them in front of them.

[dukelifer]

Wisconsin can't handle Duke's quick guards. They can't keep them in front of them.

Jackson is going Bootsie on Duke

[FerryFor50]

I am in disbelief at Bo Ryan's disbelief that they called goaltending on Amile's shot.

[CDu]

When Sulaimon is playing well we are so fun to watch. Just so many weapons.

[Duke3517]

Tyus will be a top 5 pick in the draft if he improves his defense. He isn't as good as Irving but he has a lot of high basketball IQ.

[kestrel]

Aaaaaand Sulaimon just slapped the floor and meant it. Love his fire tonight.

[FerryFor50]

Jackson is playing outta his mind.

Duke has held Wisconsin to 41% shooting. Not a bad defensive effort so far.

[Dukehky]

I believe someone predicted a pretty good sized win, that was me. Told ya guys. We are more talented at every spot, I said except for Hayes, but Jefferson worked him.

[mpj96]

Great, great win. What a game by Tyus.

[J4Kop99]

Hyperbole alert:

This is as good a regular season win as I can remember.

Considering our youth, the opponent, the fact that it was on the road, and our best player (an unproven freshman) was matched up against one of the best players in the country, this is a tremendous win. Yes it is early in the season but Wisconsin is a very good team.

Suily was $$ with timely buckets and Jah showed us all a lot (especially his ability to switch onto smaller, more athletic players and stay competitive). Everyone contributed and played the role asked of them tonight.

Great win!

[dukelifer]

I believe someone predicted a pretty good sized win, that was me. Told ya guys. We are more talented at every spot, I said except for Hayes, but Jefferson worked him.

I did not-but could not be happier with the performance. T Jones showed he likes the big game and moment. Great effort by all!

[Karl Beem]

Wisconsin can't handle Duke's quick guards. They can't keep them in front of them.

Our guards are awesome!

[CDu]

Aaaaaand Sulaimon just slapped the floor and meant it. Love his fire tonight.

Of course that floor slap immediately prompted an open 3 for them. I hate the floor slap.

Still though, an awesome win!

[NYBri]

Earlier in the thread I said, "Devils by 8. No worries."

Okay...I was offby 2.

😊

[DukeFanSince1990]

All of our wins have been by double digits so far. Pretty cool.