Butler 74, #5 unc 66

[DukeDiva]

74-66 butler!

[sagegrouse]

Basically over! Butler wins!

"Over and back...." And OUT!!

[OldPhiKap]

"Over and back...." And OUT!!

Paige kinda looked like the pressure got him at the end, which is unusual. Credit Butler's defense, I guess.

[77devil]

Ol' Roy is not in the daggum Thanksgiving spirit.

[Potato Head]

Paige's first poor shooting game of the season and they lose to an unranked opponent? I'm sure it's just a fluke...

[Bluegrassdevil1]

In an attempt to remain festive, Williams will throw his kids under the buffet table opposed to the bus.

The best part is that neither of tomorrow's opponents, UCLA or Oklahoma, are pushovers themselves.

[roywhite]

Paige's first poor shooting game of the season and they lose to an unranked opponent? I'm sure it's just a fluke...

Players tired and stressed out from having classes where they actually attend and do work.

[-jk]

Butler killed them on the boards - Butler had 57 (29OR) to 40 (14OR). 29 Offensive rebounds?!

And Butler hit their FTs...

-jk

[weezie]

...I'm sure it's just a fluke...

Or a turkey of a game.

Let's hear some more about how Meeks is a "new man".

[DukeDiva]

Great rebounding by Butler and an off day by Paige. Nice to see that Butler is still playing tough, love to watch the underdog ruin Carolina's day!

[OldPhiKap]

Ol' Roy is not in the daggum Thanksgiving spirit.

Roy's not in the daggum 18-holes-at-the-beach spirit. Only has time for nine now; throwing kids under the bus takes time and energy.

[duketaylor]

beating the tarholes!!!

[Duvall]

I just can't believe the "team to beat" in the ACC just got worked like that. Duke, Louisville and Virginia must be terrible.

[DukieInKansas]

Starting the Thanksgiving weekend off with a smile. :D

Hope the Paladins don't get any ideas.

[Karl Beem]

Butler made two buckets in the last 9 minutes. For awhile a couple of their guys were jacking it up as soon as they touched the ball. They got the rebounds tho and made FTs.

[DukieInKansas]

As long as the Paladins don't get any ideas/inspiration from this, I am happy with the result.

[OldPhiKap]

Posted: Today 1:47 PM
Refuse to guard the 3 vs inferior competition, lay-ups follow...

Same old freaking song, never guard the 3 vs inferior athletes--after that Roy tells them to guard it and the fouling and lay up line follows shortly there after.

How old is this routine, it's absurd and quite honestly a joke of a coaching job to continue to do this over and over.

Not to mention the awful free-throw shooting...

[DukeDiva]

-The Bahamas Hate Carolina.
-Ol' Roy needs to go, tired of being out-coached.
-Good news is...nobody is going pro.
-This is gonna hurt recruiting.

:cool:

[Edouble]

After playing a series of cupcakes, Butler was Carolina's first test.

Of course, what would these guys know about tests anyway?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

-The Bahamas Hate Carolina.
-Ol' Roy needs to go, tired of being out-coached.
-Good news is...nobody is going pro.
-This is gonna hurt recruiting.

:cool:

If "Roy needs to go" they should at least pretend to do it because of the scandal. That way they can be self-righteous about it.

"Hurt recruiting?" Geez, where do they go?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

It is so nice of carolina to warm my heart on a cold, snowy day in November! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[77devil]

Front page of IC is UNC 74 Butler 66. Wishful thinking.

UNC 74, Butler 66
[Associated Press]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/

Edit: Now it's fixed but IC is blaming the Associated Press (and the refs, of course).

[uh_no]

their offense dropped from 25th to 40th, and they insta-fell 8 places in the rankings (kenpom)

[devildeac]

Front page of IC is UNC 74 Butler 66. Wishful thinking.

UNC 74, Butler 66
[Associated Press]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/

Edit: Now it's fixed but IC is blaming the Associated Press (and the refs, of course).

Have those jackasses blamed Duke or K yet?

[devildeac]

their offense dropped from 25th to 40th, and they insta-fell 8 places in the rankings (kenpom)

I wonder if Debby Crowder could change that?

[uh_no]

I wonder if Debby Crowder could change that?

kenpom: "how many points do they need to stay in the top 20? oh just 14 more points? we can do that"

[Tom B.]

At times like this, it's always fun to visit one of my favorite Twitter feeds:

ICMeltdown (https://twitter.com/icmeltdown)

[budwom]

Had just three of their starters been able to hit just one more three point shot...

[KandG]

Have those jackasses blamed Duke or K yet?

Here's a choice post from heelfan69...I admit I laughed out loud:

"Well, Roy can't drop f bombs at the refs every play like the venerable - highly respected coach k who belittles refs and fans - pays his players since 1984 and hides behind a wealthy private institution with a "paperless sociology major" that allows them to self police themselves.

I blasted this team last game and was attacked here. I blasted the refs this game with good reason and was blasted here. No wonder this place is losing traffic.

Happy Thanksgiving."

[Saratoga2]

Why were they ranked 5th in the first place?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I don't think Roy was out coached, but I do think the players were out played.

Roy made the adjustments that had them in it till the end, despite them allowing the easy access to offensive boards, having around 20 TO's, more bad FT shooting, bad outside shooting, and an off day finishing at the rim.

Butler was just plain tougher, played smarter, and out hustled them all day. UNC got frustrated and never found any offensive flow.

Toughness is the one area UNC teams have not been able to define since the T Hansbrough teams. Paige has it, but its hard to translate from the wings, interior players have to provide it on the boards and defensively. Mentally... Johnson and Hicks...even Tokoto...are big and strong, but play a more finesse type game at this point, and Meeks has to work harder at positioning and providing energy too. Nobody inside was providing that extra effort and toughness today that they needed.

Justin Jackson also had an off game, which surprised me. He's really good for a freshman. He let Butler's physicality get to him and didn't play strong. He sort of disappeared. It was a learning game for the key freshman.

It was just one of those early season games that will make them better. Its a marathon, not a sprint...as they say.

[Reilly]

I wonder if Debby Crowder could change that?

Sure, Roy just needs to submit a videotape of one of our games. They might even end up with a few non-bakery championships, too, if he selects wisely.

[MartyClark]

Here's a choice post from heelfan69...I admit I laughed out loud:

"Well, Roy can't drop f bombs at the refs every play like the venerable - highly respected coach k who belittles refs and fans - pays his players since 1984 and hides behind a wealthy private institution with a "paperless sociology major" that allows them to self police themselves.

I blasted this team last game and was attacked here. I blasted the refs this game with good reason and was blasted here. No wonder this place is losing traffic.

Happy Thanksgiving."

I read stuff like this when I occasionally venture into the toxic, turbulent waters of IC. This type of post makes me lose faith in humanity. Does this guy really believe this? Does he have a job and a family? Would he appear normal in a social setting or would he be wearing a tinfoil hat? Does he get the same vote in elections that you and I do?

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

[MChambers]

I don't think Roy was out coached, but I do think the players were out played.
Given that Butler's coach is on some sort of medical leave, it would be hard to be outcoached, but I think Roy was up to it.

[-bdbd]

.......
Butler was just plain tougher, played smarter, and out hustled them all day. UNC got frustrated and never found any offensive flow.

Toughness is the one area UNC teams have not been able to define since the T Hansbrough teams. Paige has it, but its hard to translate from the wings, interior players have to provide it on the boards and defensively. Mentally... Johnson and Hicks...even Tokoto...are big and strong, but play a more finesse type game at this point, and Meeks has to work harder at positioning and providing energy too. Nobody inside was providing that extra effort and toughness today that they needed.

Justin Jackson also had an off game, which surprised me. He's really good for a freshman. He let Butler's physicality get to him and didn't play strong. He sort of disappeared. It was a learning game for the key freshman.

It was just one of those early season games that will make them better. Its a marathon, not a sprint...as they say.

And that, my friends, is the very definition of "spin."

:p

".... I do think the players were out played." Kinda true by definition, as they lost by 8, in front of what appeared to be a very friendly (home?) crowd to an unranked opponent again....

So, did the team then go on another rampage and re-paint the visitor's locker room at Atlantis in faded blue grafitti?

[jacone21]

They finally found the lost city of Atlantis...

Spoiler below.


















It's in HELL!

[OldPhiKap]

I don't think Roy was out coached, but I do think the players were out played.

Roy disagrees about his own job:

"“It’s very disappointing to us. We have wonderful kids and I did a poor job with them getting them ready to play with the aggressiveness that Butler played [with]. Butler’s coaching staff did a much better job of getting them ready to play. . . .

"They outplayed us and definitely outcoached us. We had some chances at the end. Had a couple of turnovers at the end when it could have been a lot of fun, but again, you have to congratulate their defense for doing such a good job.”


Did you see a performance like this coming?

“No, I didn’t see it coming. I’d like to say that I did and all of that smart stuff, but the truth of the matter is that I thought we would rise to the challenge, and we needed to. We have four or five guys on this team that were on the team two years ago when they beat us by 88 or whatever it was. Showing them on tape that Butler is really good. They really do a nice job and the kids play so hard, so I was concerned about it, but I thought that the head coach would do a better job and get our guys more ready than I did.”

You referenced your preparation. Was it the attitude you didn’t like today or was it something else?

“Preparation, you can always do as many things as you want to and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. That’s the reason it’s called coaching. In medicine, they call it medical practice and it’s a little more serious there. In basketball, we get to practice. We haven’t gotten it across to them yet how hard you have to play, how aggressive you have to play and that’s what my job is.”



Sounds like a bit of both. And to be fair to Roy, Cut basically said the same thing after we lost to VTech.

[Tom B.]

Roy disagrees about his own job:

"“It’s very disappointing to us. We have wonderful kids and I did a poor job with them getting them ready to play with the aggressiveness that Butler played [with]. Butler’s coaching staff did a much better job of getting them ready to play. . . .

"They outplayed us and definitely outcoached us. We had some chances at the end. Had a couple of turnovers at the end when it could have been a lot of fun, but again, you have to congratulate their defense for doing such a good job.”


Did you see a performance like this coming?

“No, I didn’t see it coming. I’d like to say that I did and all of that smart stuff, but the truth of the matter is that I thought we would rise to the challenge, and we needed to. We have four or five guys on this team that were on the team two years ago when they beat us by 88 or whatever it was. Showing them on tape that Butler is really good. They really do a nice job and the kids play so hard, so I was concerned about it, but I thought that the head coach would do a better job and get our guys more ready than I did.”

You referenced your preparation. Was it the attitude you didn’t like today or was it something else?

“Preparation, you can always do as many things as you want to and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. That’s the reason it’s called coaching. In medicine, they call it medical practice and it’s a little more serious there. In basketball, we get to practice. We haven’t gotten it across to them yet how hard you have to play, how aggressive you have to play and that’s what my job is.”



Sounds like a bit of both. And to be fair to Roy, Cut basically said the same thing after we lost to VTech.


I agree that Roy was basically saying the same thing that Cut said after our loss to Virginia Tech -- falling on his sword, taking responsibility for not getting the team prepared, etc. But sheesh, is the man capable of saying anything that isn't complete word salad?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Roy disagrees about his own job:

"“It’s very disappointing to us. We have wonderful kids and I did a poor job with them getting them ready to play with the aggressiveness that Butler played [with]. Butler’s coaching staff did a much better job of getting them ready to play. . . .

"They outplayed us and definitely outcoached us. We had some chances at the end. Had a couple of turnovers at the end when it could have been a lot of fun, but again, you have to congratulate their defense for doing such a good job.”


Did you see a performance like this coming?

“No, I didn’t see it coming. I’d like to say that I did and all of that smart stuff, but the truth of the matter is that I thought we would rise to the challenge, and we needed to. We have four or five guys on this team that were on the team two years ago when they beat us by 88 or whatever it was. Showing them on tape that Butler is really good. They really do a nice job and the kids play so hard, so I was concerned about it, but I thought that the head coach would do a better job and get our guys more ready than I did.”

You referenced your preparation. Was it the attitude you didn’t like today or was it something else?

“Preparation, you can always do as many things as you want to and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. That’s the reason it’s called coaching. In medicine, they call it medical practice and it’s a little more serious there. In basketball, we get to practice. We haven’t gotten it across to them yet how hard you have to play, how aggressive you have to play and that’s what my job is.”



Sounds like a bit of both. And to be fair to Roy, Cut basically said the same thing after we lost to VTech.

Of course he's gonna say stuff like that. It's the politically correct thing to do.

I bet privately he's on their backsides, I know I would be.

Bottom line for me is, Roy wasn't on the floor. I'm one who credits the players , one way or the other, way more than the coaches...in any team sport.

And BTW guys...I like to talk basketball...not all this other weak trash talk that is trolled my way...in every thread... that I have to constantly ignore out of respect for the forum....because I know where it would lead if I could reply as I'd like:)

[brevity]

And BTW guys...I like to talk basketball...not all this other weak trash talk that is trolled my way...in every thread... that I have to constantly ignore out of respect for the forum....because I know where it would lead if I could reply as I'd like:)

Having an easygoing UNC fan has been an asset to DBR.

I agree that there's been an irregular amount of trash talk directed toward Wheat -- maybe not "every thread," though it does feel like almost every thread ends up being about UNC. I think Butler's win today infiltrated about 6 different threads. Duke fans are still fans, completely unable to compartmentalize. As a person who can compartmentalize about as well as a serial killer, I do not understand them.

At the same time, I'm not sure I would ever go to another fandom's forum (let's say, Arizona) and play the role of Duke representative. Maybe I could chime in every once in a while on immediately relevant topics -- like a few DBR members who are fans of NC State, Virginia, or Syracuse -- but I would grow extremely tired of being called out every time Duke is in the news.

Wheat, do what you want. I'm not you. But you seem reasonable, and I just think it's useless for you to make an extended stay in, say, the spray painting thread. That was not DBR's finest hour: we wanted blood, for some reason, and kept whipping ourselves into frenzies with or without you. I cracked one joke (slightly at your expense) and got the hell out of there. There are more hospitable threads, and I rather like having a UNC fan's perspective on the real basketball stuff. Expect some mocking, of course.

[ice-9]

I bet privately he's on their backsides, I know I would be.

Weird image alert!!

[cptnflash]

Why were they ranked 5th in the first place?

Two words: Michael. Jordan.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I cracked one joke (slightly at your expense) and got the hell out of there. There are more hospitable threads, and I rather like having a UNC fan's perspective on the real basketball stuff. Expect some mocking, of course.

Yea, I have to be better at choosing my conversations.

I enjoy the good natured back and forth stuff, and even the mocking doesn't bother me. I'm a big boy...and know where I am.

I like it here because I get the opposite opinion much of the time and I can get a different perspective. Nobody learns anything when nothing gets challenged.

Moving on...don't want to hijack a thread and spoil you guys the satisfaction of a UNC loss.

Bright spot today was Britt. He can run the point at a high level when Paige goes to 2g. I'd rather see Paige at Point, but UNC has got to get some scoring at 2g and Tokoto/ Pinson are'the getting it done, yet.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Weird image alert!!

Just trying to get past the censor software....nothing to see here...move along :)

[hurleyfor3]

This game was for the 1924 national championship, btw.

[devildeac]

Here's a choice post from heelfan69...I admit I laughed out loud:

"Well, Roy can't drop f bombs at the refs every play like the venerable - highly respected coach k who belittles refs and fans - pays his players since 1984 and hides behind a wealthy private institution with a "paperless sociology major" that allows them to self police themselves.

I blasted this team last game and was attacked here. I blasted the refs this game with good reason and was blasted here. No wonder this place is losing traffic.

Happy Thanksgiving."

Priceless stuff. 18 years of cheating with 3100+ students and this is the manure that emanates from those cretins.

[FerryFor50]

Of course he's gonna say stuff like that. It's the politically correct thing to do.

I bet privately he's on their backsides, I know I would be.

Bottom line for me is, Roy wasn't on the floor. I'm one who credits the players , one way or the other, way more than the coaches...in any team sport.

And BTW guys...I like to talk basketball...not all this other weak trash talk that is trolled my way...in every thread... that I have to constantly ignore out of respect for the forum....because I know where it would lead if I could reply as I'd like:)

Let's be realistic - most do not see you as "Wheat, the good natured down to earth (sometimes delusional) UNC fan." They see you as OMG KILL THE ENEMY.

On a side note, we may get another treat now that UNC has to play UCLA next. :cool:

[CDu]

Marcus Paige is doing his best to eliminate talk of PoY awards. Through four games, he is averaging just 13.5ppg, 34.8 fg%, and just 3.0apg. Disappointing start for him to say the least.

[devildeac]

Marcus Paige is doing his best to eliminate talk of PoY awards. Through four games, he is averaging just 13.5ppg, 34.8 fg%, and just 3.0apg. Disappointing start for him to say the least.

Disappointment for him=joy for Duke and NCSU fans (and maybe a few others, too;))

[Duvall]

Marcus Paige is doing his best to eliminate talk of PoY awards. Through four games, he is averaging just 13.5ppg, 34.8 fg%, and just 3.0apg. Disappointing start for him to say the least.

Well, maybe. But with ACSMA you never count UNC's leading scorer out for conference honors.

[NYBri]

I say: 9F

[Wander]

Well, maybe. But with ACSMA you never count UNC's leading scorer out for conference honors.

Sure - however, right now, Paige isn't even that. Nor is he second.

[bbosbbos]

I like that kid. But put him as a NPOY? Only ignorant people will do that. He has poor D & below average speed.


Marcus Paige is doing his best to eliminate talk of PoY awards. Through four games, he is averaging just 13.5ppg, 34.8 fg%, and just 3.0apg. Disappointing start for him to say the least.

[Wander]

Bright spot today was Britt. He can run the point at a high level when Paige goes to 2g. I'd rather see Paige at Point, but UNC has got to get some scoring at 2g and Tokoto/ Pinson are'the getting it done, yet.

I don't know why you have such a mancrush on Britt. Dude has two assists... not on the game, but on the entire season.

[norduck]

I don't know why you have such a mancrush on Britt. Dude has two assists... not on the game, but on the entire season.

Typical passive aggression.

[DukeDiva]

1 more from IC, didn't realize Crowder posted on IC....

Grades

Athleticism: UNC A; Butler B-
Moxie: UNC B; Butler A

March Potential: UNC A; Butler B

Edge to UNC with a bright March future.

[Clay Feet POF]

Of course he's gonna say stuff like that. It's the politically correct thing to do.

I bet privately he's on their backsides, I know I would be.

Bottom line for me is, Roy wasn't on the floor. I'm one who credits the players , one way or the other, way more than the coaches...in any team sport.

And BTW guys...I like to talk basketball...not all this other weak trash talk that is trolled my way...in every thread... that I have to constantly ignore out of respect for the forum....because I know where it would lead if I could reply as I'd like:)


Well said Wheat!

[roywhite]

Butler is not easy to play; their style of aggressive defense can disrupt a team, and it seemed to happen to UNC.

I'm surprised at the rebounding differential being so strongly in Butler's favor, when I would have expected UNC to have the edge in that department due to size and athletic ability. And, yeah, as has been noted, not a very good game for Paige, and he's critical to whatever success this team can achieve.

[Furniture]

Having an easygoing UNC fan has been an asset to DBR.

I agree that there's been an irregular amount of trash talk directed toward Wheat -- maybe not "every thread," though it does feel like almost every thread ends up being about UNC. I think Butler's win today infiltrated about 6 different threads. Duke fans are still fans, completely unable to compartmentalize. As a person who can compartmentalize about as well as a serial killer, I do not understand them.

At the same time, I'm not sure I would ever go to another fandom's forum (let's say, Arizona) and play the role of Duke representative. Maybe I could chime in every once in a while on immediately relevant topics -- like a few DBR members who are fans of NC State, Virginia, or Syracuse -- but I would grow extremely tired of being called out every time Duke is in the news.

Wheat, do what you want. I'm not you. But you seem reasonable, and I just think it's useless for you to make an extended stay in, say, the spray painting thread. That was not DBR's finest hour: we wanted blood, for some reason, and kept whipping ourselves into frenzies with or without you. I cracked one joke (slightly at your expense) and got the hell out of there. There are more hospitable threads, and I rather like having a UNC fan's perspective on the real basketball stuff. Expect some mocking, of course.
Top post! if K was a regular poster here I could not imagine him treating Wheat like many people do. Nuff said.....

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Wheat is a rare bird at that, bless his heart. It's sad, but his university doesn't deserve his loyalty.

Love, Ima

[Olympic Fan]

This game was for the 1924 national championship, btw.

Butler win the 1924 national championship fair and square -- on the court, winning the only national tournament held that year.

It's sweet to see them beat a school that celebrates a phony 1924 championship, awarded by a bread company 18 years after the fact. But it didn't decide the 1924 title ... win or lose, that belongs to Butler.

[Edouble]

1 more from IC, didn't realize Crowder posted on IC....

Grades

Athleticism: UNC A; Butler B-
Moxie: UNC B; Butler A

March Potential: UNC A; Butler B

Edge to UNC with a bright March future.

I wonder if that IC poster realizes that it was our own Shane Battier that brought "moxie" into the basketball lexicon.

[sagegrouse]

Top post! if K was a regular poster here I could not imagine him treating Wheat like many people do. Nuff said.....


Wheat is a rare bird at that, bless his heart. It's sad, but his university doesn't deserve his loyalty.

Love, Ima

And, Wheat may take us out fishin' in the Gulf. Of course, he may not bring us back....

[Wheat/"/"/"]

And, Wheat may take us out fishin' in the Gulf. Of course, he may not bring us back....

Chum.....I'm thinking chum.

[OldPhiKap]

Chum.....I'm thinking chum.

"Chum" in the "buddy" sense -- right?

:-)


Happy Turkey Day to you, and all at DBR.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I don't know why you have such a mancrush on Britt. Dude has two assists... not on the game, but on the entire season.

Not really a mancrush, more of an appreciation of his game as a sophomore.

Stats don't tell the real story of how players play. There has to be made basket to get an assist and he's been on the court with the gang that can't shoot straight much of the time so far.

He's a good defender and UNC 's offense is running better at this time when he's in the game with Paige....unfortunately.

He has his struggles with his own scoring, but I think it's improving and can be adequate for his role.

Defense is not the problem for this UNC team,(other than one poor game on the boards), this team does defend.
And Paige is a very good defender, whoever that thinks he's not needs to watch him more closely next time.

Remember the UAB game early last season? Lots of premature talk about how bad that team was around here too.
This is a good team that played a bad game. They just need to keep at it and find their on court chemistry.

[OldPhiKap]

Not really a mancrush, more of an appreciation of his game as a sophomore.

Stats don't tell the real story of how players play. There has to be made basket to get an assist and he's been on the court with the gang that can't shoot straight much of the time so far.

He's a good defender and UNC 's offense is running better at this time when he's in the game with Paige....unfortunately.

He has his struggles with his own scoring, but I think it's improving and can be adequate for his role.

Defense is not the problem for this UNC team,(other than one poor game on the boards), this team does defend.
And Paige is a very good defender, whoever that thinks he's not needs to watch him more closely next time.

Remember the UAB game early last season? Lots of premature talk about how bad that team was around here too.
This is a good team that played a bad game. They just need to keep at it and find their on court chemistry.

Roy's teams seem to start slow, take some knocks, but get stronger by the end. Agree that this one game is not the death knell of UNC this year. They will be in the conference and national hunt. To do so, though, they will need:

1. Someone other than Paige who is a consistent enough outside threat to beat the zone and spread the floor.

2. Really surprised Carolina got worked inside given its size; I noticed a lot of references on IC to the big guys being "soft." I don't watch them consistently enough to know if this is fair, but someone inside needs to become a beast instead of just a big guy with talent and potential.

And for the love of all that is good -- what opposing team does not know that the full court trap is coming when Carolina is down late? It has been a staple since Dean's tenure but teams seem to act like they are surprised by this.

[oldnavy]

Not really a mancrush, more of an appreciation of his game as a sophomore.

Stats don't tell the real story of how players play. There has to be made basket to get an assist and he's been on the court with the gang that can't shoot straight much of the time so far.

He's a good defender and UNC 's offense is running better at this time when he's in the game with Paige....unfortunately.

He has his struggles with his own scoring, but I think it's improving and can be adequate for his role.

Defense is not the problem for this UNC team,(other than one poor game on the boards), this team does defend.
And Paige is a very good defender, whoever that thinks he's not needs to watch him more closely next time.

Remember the UAB game early last season? Lots of premature talk about how bad that team was around here too.
This is a good team that played a bad game. They just need to keep at it and find their on court chemistry.

Agree with the good team bad game comment. The weaknesses are outside shooting and guarding the three ball which has been UNC's achilles for a few years now. Teams that can drive and kick out will have very open looks against UNC, because for whatever reason they always seem to collapse on penetration even when they have very capable bigs at the rim.

We will learn a lot about the heels in the next few weeks. The game against UK could be very brutal given the size of UK's frontline and UNC's style of inside out play, especially if the outside shooting woes continue.

[slower]

I wonder if that IC poster realizes that it was our own Shane Battier that brought "moxie" into the basketball lexicon.

Really? So you're saying that nobody ever used this term about a basketball player before Shane? Highly unlikely. Call me crazy, but I'm sure that somebody somewhere used "moxie" when referring to Dave Cowens or Bob Cousy or George Mikan or SOMEBODY. :p

[devildeac]

And, Wheat may take us out fishin' in the Gulf. Of course, he may not bring us back....


Chum.....I'm thinking chum.

Confirmation. I thought Wheat has insinuated/"threatened" something like that before. I think if I ever have a bet with Wheat, it'll have to be a pee-can pie. Even then, I'm still hiring a taste tester:rolleyes:.

Love ya, man.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

1. Someone other than Paige who is a consistent enough outside threat to beat the zone and spread the floor.
Jackson and Tokoto have to step up there. Both are better mid range/at the rim scorers now and it's crowded in the paint the way teams are defending.



2. Really surprised Carolina got worked inside given its size; I noticed a lot of references on IC to the big guys being "soft." I don't watch them consistently enough to know if this is fair, but someone inside needs to become a beast instead of just a big guy with talent and potential.

They got suckered in to trying to block every shot and it got them out of position for boards. And it was one of those games where the ball didn't bounch their way very often as well. Add that to a tough, active opponent with more want to and you saw what happened.
And we won't see the words "beast" and "power" too often with thes guys, just don't see it in their nature.
Hicks is slowly starting to become a more powerful player, but confidence still holding him back. He has the tools.



And for the love of all that is good -- what opposing team does not know that the full court trap is coming when Carolina is down late? It has been a staple since Dean's tenure but teams seem to act like they are surprised by this.

We have good defensive players, and Roy coaches the press well. Knowing it's coming and dealing with it are two different matters.

[ChrisP]

So...instead of "The Battle 4 Atlantis", the Heels will be playing "The Battle 4 A Last Place"? :cool:

[DevilWearsPrada]

Congratulations to Butler! I watched the game yesterday!

Did Roy blame the game on the dadgum Turkey meal the night before the game?

Dadgummit......... The BUTLER WAY won out over the Carolina Way, yesterday! ;)

Does anyone know if the Carolina Team painted the Locker Room in the Bahamas? ;)


Happy Thanksgiving to All!!!!
The Best to the Butler Bulldogs in the Battle of Atlantis!!!!!!!!!! Go Dawgs!

[roywhite]

We have good defensive players, and Roy coaches the press well. Knowing it's coming and dealing with it are two different matters.

Ol' Roy has more coaching ability in his dadgum pinky finger than I do altogether, but maybe they should utilize the traps and press more often?

Some good defenders, and good depth make it possible.

[gumbomoop]

Ol' Roy has more coaching ability in his dadgum pinky finger than I do altogether, but maybe they should utilize the traps and press more often?

Some good defenders, and good depth make it possible.

This seems like good strategy to me.

Good thing Heels are coached by RW rather than by rw.

[mgtr]

I am happy that Wheat is a regular poster here. An occasional pinprick to the balloon of joy is a good thing.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

"............ but maybe they should utilize the traps and press more often?


They will as we go along, it's early.

[McDougald]

The weather had cleared and Thanksgiving looked to be a promising holiday as I entered a quaint wee pub to relax and have conversations.

Sitting at the end of the bar was a gray haired man, perhaps a few years older, with his head bowed and crying in his beer. I had hoped to have some cheerful conversations, but his appearance just begged for help.

I took the empty seat beside him, ordered a glass of ice water, and simply said: "I wish you the best and much happiness for Thanksgiving!"

He looked up from his bloodshot eyes, squinted, and asked, "who are you?"

I simply introduced myself by my name, but had to say is slowly perhaps four times before he could take it in. Then to change the tone I began to talk about the wonderful things that we all have to be thankful for during this special season.

He began to cry.

"My boy's don't respect me!" He started.

Being a parent, I had a great deal of empathy to share, but I remained quiet and let him talk.

"They will not study, their grades - with the exception of one - are dismal, and everyone is starting to blame me for their problems!"

He took the last swallow of beer and ordered a double Long Island Iced Tea.

I could only say, "I'm sorry. Life throws us curve balls, but we have to seek the positives."

He took a big gulp of his drink and continued, "I've always felt that we were ahead of our neighbors, but his kids do well and respect him. What is my problem?"

As the bartender issued his last call for drinks, I walked out into the clear nighttime air thinking: "Poor Roy! He and his "boys" are in the Bahamas for a wonderful break and a chance to pick up another trophy. Their dreams are ruined.

I didn't have the nerve to tell him: The Butler did it!

[53n206]

Anyone else remember Moxie, a highly caffeinated drink. I remember it from the '40s. Bad taste. Still made I think. Saw some a few years ago at Aubery McClendon's place "Pops" outside Oklahoma city.

[Olympic Fan]

Just wondering if anybody knows if the UNC-UCLA game will be available tonight on Time-Warner cable?

The consolation games from the Bahamas are on something called AXS TV. It is carried by Time-Warner, but is not offered in this area.

But I know that sometimes Time-Warner will offer such as game on one of their local access channels -- they did this recently for UNC-Davidson ... I'm pretty sure they did it in 2012 for the Duke-Stanford football game.

Just hoping to watch it tonight (pulling for the Bruins, of course).

[uh_no]

Just wondering if anybody knows if the UNC-UCLA game will be available tonight on Time-Warner cable?

The consolation games from the Bahamas are on something called AXS TV. It is carried by Time-Warner, but is not offered in this area.

But I know that sometimes Time-Warner will offer such as game on one of their local access channels -- they did this recently for UNC-Davidson ... I'm pretty sure they did it in 2012 for the Duke-Stanford football game.

Just hoping to watch it tonight (pulling for the Bruins, of course).

if they do, i have found no evidence predicting it.

[Duke_92]

if they do, i have found no evidence predicting it.

Wow. Just double checked the N&O. They only list WCHL-97.3 for the game. ESPN channels look booked up in the evening. I guess they didn't expect the heels to lose in the first round.

[Philadukie]

Seems like the same story different year of late with UNC. I expect them to drop a few more stinkers like this one while at the same time beating teams like Virginia and Louisville. Heck, I won't even be shocked if they beat UK. And then lose to William & Mary.

[OldPhiKap]

Just wondering if anybody knows if the UNC-UCLA game will be available tonight on Time-Warner cable?

The consolation games from the Bahamas are on something called AXS TV. It is carried by Time-Warner, but is not offered in this area.

But I know that sometimes Time-Warner will offer such as game on one of their local access channels -- they did this recently for UNC-Davidson ... I'm pretty sure they did it in 2012 for the Duke-Stanford football game.

Just hoping to watch it tonight (pulling for the Bruins, of course).

Oly, there is an IC thread on this issue. Below is a linked site which, supposedly, will tell you if you plug in your zip code:

http://www.axs.tv/subscribe/

Edit: just tried it, the link has info for all providers not just TW.

[Henderson]

The weather had cleared and Thanksgiving looked to be a promising holiday as I entered a quaint wee pub to relax and have conversations.

Sitting at the end of the bar was a gray haired man, perhaps a few years older, with his head bowed and crying in his beer. I had hoped to have some cheerful conversations, but his appearance just begged for help.

I took the empty seat beside him, ordered a glass of ice water, and simply said: "I wish you the best and much happiness for Thanksgiving!"

He looked up from his bloodshot eyes, squinted, and asked, "who are you?"

I simply introduced myself by my name, but had to say is slowly perhaps four times before he could take it in. Then to change the tone I began to talk about the wonderful things that we all have to be thankful for during this special season.

He began to cry.

"My boy's don't respect me!" He started.

Being a parent, I had a great deal of empathy to share, but I remained quiet and let him talk.

"They will not study, their grades - with the exception of one - are dismal, and everyone is starting to blame me for their problems!"

He took the last swallow of beer and ordered a double Long Island Iced Tea.

I could only say, "I'm sorry. Life throws us curve balls, but we have to seek the positives."

He took a big gulp of his drink and continued, "I've always felt that we were ahead of our neighbors, but his kids do well and respect him. What is my problem?"

As the bartender issued his last call for drinks, I walked out into the clear nighttime air thinking: "Poor Roy! He and his "boys" are in the Bahamas for a wonderful break and a chance to pick up another trophy. Their dreams are ruined.

I didn't have the nerve to tell him: The Butler did it!

I appreciate the sentiment, but not today. Maybe give it a rest today.

[arnie]

Butler is not easy to play; their style of aggressive defense can disrupt a team, and it seemed to happen to UNC.


Well Oklahoma found Butler fairly easy to play today. Maybe the Heels aren't quite what ACC prognosticators expected. Or Roy's just messin with us and sandbagging early.

[roywhite]

The Heels bounced back with a decisive win vs UCLA

Tar Heels roll past Bruins in Battle 4 Atlantis consolation game (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400608758)

Didn't see the game but appears that Paige played very well against the Bruins, who shot a miserable 1-14 from 3-pt.

[arnie]

The Heels bounced back with a decisive win vs UCLA

Tar Heels roll past Bruins in Battle 4 Atlantis consolation game (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400608758)

Didn't see the game but appears that Paige played very well against the Bruins, who shot a miserable 1-14 from 3-pt.

Didn't see it either but apparently Heels had ridiculous run late 1st and early 2nd half to ice it. Oh well, maybe they can sleep through their game tomorrow.

[roywhite]

Didn't see it either but apparently Heels had ridiculous run late 1st and early 2nd half to ice it. Oh well, maybe they can sleep through their game tomorrow.

Bit of a comedown when a team ranked #5 nationally plays for 5th place in a holiday tournament.

As Heel fans will point out, they can finish 2-1 for the tournament and an early loss can be a learning experience.

[Duvall]

Surprised to see that UCLA was ranked - I hadn't realized how much they had lost from last year.

[grad_devil]

Surprised to see that UCLA was ranked - I hadn't realized how much they had lost from last year.

They still have Tony Parker, remember? I think he missed most of the game, though. Still finishing his press conference.

[devildeac]

Surprised to see that UCLA was ranked - I hadn't realized how much they had lost from last year.


They still have Tony Parker, remember? I think he missed most of the game, though. Still finishing his press conference.

Their biggest loss was Tony Parker's 20-25 pounds:rolleyes:.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/88847/alford-tony-parker-in-shape-confident

Ya gotta read it to believe it:

“Well, Tony’s had a really good offseason,” Alford told ESPN.com on Monday. “He’s lost 20, 25 pounds. I think he’s built a lot of confidence by seeing what that does. He’s moving better, he’s in better condition. He’s making plays now because he’s in shape. So I think because of all that he’s kind of rededicated to the game, and he’s built some confidence. Hopefully that momentum carries forward because he’s a very good low-post threat but he’s learned to move out. He can knock down the 15-foot shot. Now he’s defending much better because he’s lost the weight.”

Still amusing stuff about the presser:rolleyes:.

[gurufrisbee]

I'm thankful for Butler.

[mgtr]

Bit of a comedown when a team ranked #5 nationally plays for 5th place in a holiday tournament.

As Heel fans will point out, they can finish 2-1 for the tournament and an early loss can be a learning experience.

So, do you think they will hang a banner?:rolleyes:

[OldPhiKap]

As Heel fans will point out, they can finish 2-1 for the tournament and an early loss can be a learning experience.

Unfortunately true though. UNC will be a thorn all season.

[Duvall]

I'm thankful for Butler.

Well, maybe. Oklahoma/Georgetown looks like a much tougher set of games than UCLA/Florida right now. The Butler loss may have gotten the Heels out of the Bahamas with one loss instead of two.

[blueduke59]

Next up for UNC is an injury riddled Florida team. Roy "The Snitch" Williams has had a deep dislike for Donovan for a long time. Interesting read from a few years back: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2002-11-29/sports/0211290291_1_donovan-coach-roy-williams-kansas-coach. Williams of all people turned UF in to the NCAA. Wonder why we never hear about that?

[Troublemaker]

Hoping Wisconsin will win the Atlantis title by beating Oklahoma.

I'd love for the Badgers to be undefeated when Duke plays them next week. Whether Duke wins or loses in Madison, I want to face an undefeated team playing at home.

[Troublemaker]

Well, maybe. Oklahoma/Georgetown looks like a much tougher set of games than UCLA/Florida right now. The Butler loss may have gotten the Heels out of the Bahamas with one loss instead of two.

Yeah, UNC is definitely a solid favorite over Florida, opening as 5.5-pt favorites. Heels kinda lucked out here, getting to beat some name teams not playing their best instead of losing to less exalted teams that are playing well.

[uh_no]

Hoping Wisconsin will win the Atlantis title by beating Oklahoma.

I'd love for the Badgers to be undefeated when Duke plays them next week. Whether Duke wins or loses in Madison, I want to face an undefeated team playing at home.

Well good thing army is 5-0

miami is 6-0 as well...but i'd be surprised if they came into cameron with yet a loss.


and that's it....all our remaining home games have a loss.

[BD80]

Dadgummit......... The BUTLER WAY won out over the Carolina Way, yesterday! ;)


This century, the "carolina way" now includes a sentencing phase

[Troublemaker]

Well good thing army is 5-0

miami is 6-0 as well...but i'd be surprised if they came into cameron with yet a loss.


and that's it....all our remaining home games have a loss.

Thanks for the info but I meant that I wanted to go into Madison and face a tough road game against an undefeated opponent.

Can't wait for that game next week.

[uh_no]

Thanks for the info but I meant that I wanted to go into Madison and face a tough road game against an undefeated opponent.

Can't wait for that game next week.

oh ambiguity of the english language!

I want to face an undefeated team playing at home

can of course mean

....undefeated team who is playing at home

or

....undefeated team whilst playing at home

of course mean opposite things!

thanks for clarifying.