Thoughts on Jameis Winston and FSU

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

So, as I was watching BC play FSU yesterday and nearly pull off the upset, I realized I was rooting hard against the Seminoles. This, despite the fact that a loss would doom the ACC to have no representative in the college playoff this year.

I understand that as an ACC fan, I ought to be rooting for a school representative to get into the playoff with the same zeal and gusto that I would if say, NC State or Clemson were close to reaching the Final Four.

But I'm not. Jameis Winston represents to me all that is wrong with the entitlement of athletes. His attitude and his narcissism overshadow and admittedly great talent. At the end of the day, whether it's against BC, Duke, or Ole Miss in the playoff, I'm rooting for him to get his comeuppance.

Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be about my soap box, but rather to garner the opinions of others on this board. Do you folks root for FSU to become back-to-back champs? I acknowledge that it is certainly better for the league for us not to be shut out in year one, and that an FSU loss will probably confirm what most SEC schools are whispering under their breath when watching FSU and the ACC.

Oh, and just for giggles, here's Winston's humility and perspective (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11922110/jimbo-fisher-jameis-winston-florida-state-seminoles-say-contact-official-malicious) on display during yesterday's game.

[DevilWearsPrada]

So, as I was watching BC play FSU yesterday and nearly pull off the upset, I realized I was rooting hard against the Seminoles. This, despite the fact that a loss would doom the ACC to have no representative in the college playoff this year.

But I'm not. Jameis Winston represents to me all that is wrong with the entitlement of athletes. His attitude and his narcissism overshadow and admittedly great talent. At the end of the day, whether it's against BC, Duke, or Ole Miss in the playoff, I'm rooting for him to get his comeuppance.

.

Jamesis represents "Entitlement" among athletes!!! And he has tainted the FSU program more, IMO, at least with me. But however, FSU sure has found a way to keep on winning.

I was so proud of our Team, Coaches, Band, Cheerleaders, and Parents and Fans on Thursday night! Wallace Wade was full and electric. The Blue Devil Walk was wonderful! Our young men are well groomed, mannerly, and respect their teammates and coaches. And Duke Football graduates their players!!!

[hudlow]

I was trying to give Winston the benefit of the doubt as to being a pampered, elite college football star until he shoved the ref last night....

[duke4ever19]

I don't think there was anything at all malicious about that play involving the ref. The ref wasn't standing over center and the center had his hand on the ball ready to snap for an up-tempo play.

It was a miscommunication and the ref did the right thing by not penalizing the team and ejecting Winston. The announcers obviously saw nothing malicious or arrogant in his conduct (judging by the laughs and "that's priceless!" comments).

Dislike Winston all you like, but that play shouldn't be put on your list of reasons to root against FSU.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't think there was anything at all malicious about that play involving the ref. The ref wasn't standing over center and the center had his hand on the ball ready to snap for an up-tempo play.

It was a miscommunication and the ref did the right thing by not penalizing the team and ejecting Winston. The announcers obviously saw nothing malicious or arrogant in his conduct (judging by the laughs and "that's priceless!" comments).

Dislike Winston all you like, but that play shouldn't be put on your list of reasons to root against FSU.

If it were literally anyone else, I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Dukehky]

If it were literally anyone else, I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

If FSU offered Duke a trade, Winston for Boone, I would take it, that's all I know. All the attention he gets for his missteps is because he is so good. The court system determined that there was not enough evidence to prosecute him for any sexual misconduct; good enough for me. FSU has no business reaching any other verdict and honestly institutions should stop putting themselves in the position of being responsible for determining criminal action (I've made that argument repeatedly elsewhere). He did something stupid and stole some crab legs, who cares, I took a Kit-Kat the other day, and he didn't sell all those autographs, they were forged. So in all that, I count one real mistake (notice no one talks about the BB gun fight or the soda at Burger King because it happened as a red shirt and no one would read an article about a red shirt freshman taking ketchup cups full of soda).

I also count a Heisman trophy, a national championship, and 0 losses as a starter. Yeah Winston is kind of a baby and he's spoiled, but I would take that baby as my starting quarterback.

[devildeac]

If FSU offered Duke a trade, Winston for Boone, I would take it, that's all I know. All the attention he gets for his missteps is because he is so good. The court system determined that there was not enough evidence to prosecute him for any sexual misconduct; good enough for me. FSU has no business reaching any other verdict and honestly institutions should stop putting themselves in the position of being responsible for determining criminal action (I've made that argument repeatedly elsewhere). He did something stupid and stole some crab legs, who cares, I took a Kit-Kat the other day, and he didn't sell all those autographs, they were forged. So in all that, I count one real mistake (notice no one talks about the BB gun fight or the soda at Burger King because it happened as a red shirt and no one would read an article about a red shirt freshman taking ketchup cups full of soda).

I also count a Heisman trophy, a national championship, and 0 losses as a starter. Yeah Winston is kind of a baby and he's spoiled, but I would take that baby as my starting quarterback.

I'd guess Cut would beg to differ.

[grad_devil]

If FSU offered Duke a trade, Winston for Boone, I would take it, that's all I know.
...
I also count a Heisman trophy, a national championship, and 0 losses as a starter. Yeah Winston is kind of a baby and he's spoiled, but I would take that baby as my starting quarterback.

Next thing you'll tell me is that you'd prefer paper/fake classes for our football team, so they can lose zero games and win a national championship.

Sorry; there are some things more important than winning - I don't know Cutcliffe, but I think he would agree with me.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If FSU offered Duke a trade, Winston for Boone, I would take it, that's all I know. All the attention he gets for his missteps is because he is so good. The court system determined that there was not enough evidence to prosecute him for any sexual misconduct; good enough for me. FSU has no business reaching any other verdict and honestly institutions should stop putting themselves in the position of being responsible for determining criminal action (I've made that argument repeatedly elsewhere). He did something stupid and stole some crab legs, who cares, I took a Kit-Kat the other day, and he didn't sell all those autographs, they were forged. So in all that, I count one real mistake (notice no one talks about the BB gun fight or the soda at Burger King because it happened as a red shirt and no one would read an article about a red shirt freshman taking ketchup cups full of soda).

I also count a Heisman trophy, a national championship, and 0 losses as a starter. Yeah Winston is kind of a baby and he's spoiled, but I would take that baby as my starting quarterback.

Interesting view. I would be mortified if someone like Winston were on our team at all, much less the face of our program.

[duke4ever19]

I'd guess Cut would beg to differ.

Welcome to the board, Coach Cut! Thank you for letting us know what you would do.

[El_Diablo]

If FSU offered Duke a trade, Winston for Boone, I would take it, that's all I know. All the attention he gets for his missteps is because he is so good. The court system determined that there was not enough evidence to prosecute him for any sexual misconduct; good enough for me. FSU has no business reaching any other verdict and honestly institutions should stop putting themselves in the position of being responsible for determining criminal action (I've made that argument repeatedly elsewhere). He did something stupid and stole some crab legs, who cares, I took a Kit-Kat the other day, and he didn't sell all those autographs, they were forged. So in all that, I count one real mistake (notice no one talks about the BB gun fight or the soda at Burger King because it happened as a red shirt and no one would read an article about a red shirt freshman taking ketchup cups full of soda).

I also count a Heisman trophy, a national championship, and 0 losses as a starter. Yeah Winston is kind of a baby and he's spoiled, but I would take that baby as my starting quarterback.

First off, there was not enough evidence of sexual assault because the Tallahassee sheriff's office buried the case for ten months after the woman initially reported it (the day of the incident). It is kind of hard to prove anything after that much time has passed...but I guess it's good enough for you, and you are entitled to that opinion. But then you recite other mistakes and then say that he only made one mistake because no one talks about the other ones? That makes no real sense.

And you seem to justify his shoplifting because you yourself recently stole a candy bar? :confused:

[grad_devil]

I'd guess Cut would beg to differ.

Welcome to the board, Coach Cut! Thank you for letting us know what you would do.

It seems you're mischaracterizing devildeac's response, IMHO. He's making a conjecture on how Coach Cutcliffe would respond, nothing more. FWIW, I agree with his conjecture.

If I mistook the intention of your post, I apologize.

[OldPhiKap]

Character counts.

[Dukehky]

First off, there was not enough evidence of sexual assault because the Tallahassee sheriff's office buried the case for ten months after the woman initially reported it (the day of the incident). It is kind of hard to prove anything after that much time has passed...but I guess it's good enough for you, and you are entitled to that opinion. But then you recite other mistakes and then say that he only made one mistake because no one talks about the other ones? That makes no real sense.

And you seem to justify his shoplifting because you yourself recently stole a candy bar? :confused:

It was a reference to an episode of the "The League," no I did not steal a candy bar. You make it seem like the TPD's mistakes guaranteed that Jameis did something wrong. I don't know, but I'm certainly not going to pass judgment on Winston without just cause, Winston didn't pay any body in the police department off.

The dude is obviously not perfect, he's also probably not a very good guy, but if Jameis was a Duke athlete he would likely have the support of most Duke fans. Just like Lance did during his investigation, just like the lacrosse players did in their investigation, same with Maggette. Of course this is hypothetical so anyone can reply to this post with " I would not pull for him, I would want him off the team and so would Cut." But how you felt about some of the Duke players' problems would probably indicate how you would feel about Winston if he wore a Duke uniform. He wins games and makes FSU a ton of money, he's not my favorite player in the world, but I don't root against him or FSU because of off the field incidents.

But I always give everyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to off the field stuff, so, not a lot of people are going to agree with me.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It was a reference to an episode of the "The League," no I did not steal a candy bar. You make it seem like the TPD's mistakes guaranteed that Jameis did something wrong. I don't know, but I'm certainly not going to pass judgment on Winston without just cause, Winston didn't pay any body in the police department off.

The dude is obviously not perfect, he's also probably not a very good guy, but if Jameis was a Duke athlete he would likely have the support of most Duke fans. Just like Lance did during his investigation, just like the lacrosse players did in their investigation, same with Maggette. Of course this is hypothetical so anyone can reply to this post with " I would not pull for him, I would want him off the team and so would Cut." But how you felt about some of the Duke players' problems would probably indicate how you would feel about Winston if he wore a Duke uniform. He wins games and makes FSU a ton of money, he's not my favorite player in the world, but I don't root against him or FSU because of off the field incidents.

I reckon there's the difference. I feel that his level of entitlement is emblematic of what is wrong with college sports. And his existing coach and program have done nothin but continue to enable his sense of entitlement.

I would hope that any Duke athlete that had made the myriad of mistakes that Winston has (leaving aside even the sexual assault - which is leaving a LOT on the table) would have been humbled, benched, dressed down, disciplined, etc regardless of how much money they make the college. Luckily, I don't have the answer to this, because Duke seems to recruit players who generally do not have discipline and attitude issues on this level - or, the teach them really quickly that behavior as such won't be tolerated.

Odds are, someday we will have the chance to find out how K or Cut reacts to a big name player whose head is even larger than his talent. I will hope when that day comes that I can continue to be proud of the university rather than pointing to wins and losses.

[El_Diablo]

It was a reference to an episode of the "The League," no I did not steal a candy bar.

Ah, okay...that reference went completely over my head. And no, I do not think the TPD's "mistakes" guarantee he did anything wrong. But I think it is fair to point out the 10-month delay to provide context when someone cites a lack of evidence with respect to the incident. And I am not entirely willing to believe that his status as a football player had nothing to do with the way the TPD approached the situation in the first place.

Regardless, I for one am glad he does not play for Duke.

[77devil]

Odds are, someday we will have the chance to find out how K or Cut reacts to a big name player whose head is even larger than his talent. I will hope when that day comes that I can continue to be proud of the university rather than pointing to wins and losses.

Coach K already has with the former Mr. Kim Kardashian plus there are other big time b-ball recruits that Duke has backed off of due to character concerns.

[devildeac]

It seems you're mischaracterizing devildeac's response, IMHO. He's making a conjecture on how Coach Cutcliffe would respond, nothing more. FWIW, I agree with his conjecture.

If I mistook the intention of your post, I apologize.

Your reading comprehension skills, understanding of my post and conjecture accurately convey how I think Cut might/would respond. Thank you.

[duke4ever19]

It seems you're mischaracterizing devildeac's response, IMHO. He's making a conjecture on how Coach Cutcliffe would respond, nothing more. FWIW, I agree with his conjecture.

If I mistook the intention of your post, I apologize.

If you took the intent of my post as sarcasm, then you would be on the money.

It was a way of pointing out the illegitimate nature of supposing what a person would do without hearing a statement on the matter from said person.

Of course, feel free to agree or disagree on the matter. My original post was to point out that the ref incident is not an indicator of anything and furthermore, Winston wasn't penalized for it during the game or afterwords. I think some may use the ref incident as further proof of bad character etc. which I think is not warranted.

[dbcooper]

Bo Jackson says good bye....

[devildeac]

If you took the intent of my post as sarcasm, then you would be on the money.

It was a way of pointing out the illegitimate nature of supposing what a person would do without hearing a statement on the matter from said person.

Of course, feel free to agree or disagree on the matter. My original post was to point out that the ref incident is not an indicator of anything and furthermore, Winston wasn't penalized for it during the game or afterwords. I think some may use the ref incident as further proof of bad character etc. which I think is not warranted.

Care to address my "illegitimate" supposition again as to what Cut might do? Here's a link to an article showing what Cut actually did do in response to the action of a player with NFL potential:

http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/x609283850/Big-athletic-NCCU-DT-John-Drew-waits-to-dip-toe-into-NFL-waters

Money quote:

"But Drew and two freshmen teammates, all from Georgia, were arrested for their involvement in the firing of a gun on campus. Duke coach David Cutcliffe kicked them off the team. "

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My intention in starting this thread was never to turn us all against each other. Apologies. I was just curious to know whether the board generally agreed or disagreed with my attitude towards the Seminoles and Winston. Seems there is no consensus.

[coldriver10]

The dude is obviously not perfect, he's also probably not a very good guy, but if Jameis was a Duke athlete he would likely have the support of most Duke fans. Just like Lance did during his investigation, just like the lacrosse players did in their investigation, same with Maggette. Of course this is hypothetical so anyone can reply to this post with " I would not pull for him, I would want him off the team and so would Cut." But how you felt about some of the Duke players' problems would probably indicate how you would feel about Winston if he wore a Duke uniform. He wins games and makes FSU a ton of money, he's not my favorite player in the world, but I don't root against him or FSU because of off the field incidents.
It's the repeated incidents that get to me. I can forgive a mistake, one for which the person shows genuine remorse and learns from it. And that's not even considering the alleged sexual assault given the inconsistencies in the story and the fact that he was never charged (and I say that as a woman, one who gives the alleged victim the initial benefit of the doubt...I'll be the first to (somewhat ashamedly) admit that I did incorrectly initially assume guilt in the lacrosse case until the facts came out). But Jameis has shown absolutely no willingness to mature or learn from his mistakes, and that is something I can't support. I may be faced with having to deal with this issue as my favorite NFL team is terrible and in need of a franchise QB in the April draft, so I'll let you know how I feel if my team drafts him.

Also, The League is...amazing.

[allenmurray]

If FSU offered Duke a trade, Winston for Boone, I would take it, that's all I know. All the attention he gets for his missteps is because he is so good. The court system determined that there was not enough evidence to prosecute him for any sexual misconduct; good enough for me. FSU has no business reaching any other verdict and honestly institutions should stop putting themselves in the position of being responsible for determining criminal action (I've made that argument repeatedly elsewhere). He did something stupid and stole some crab legs, who cares, I took a Kit-Kat the other day, and he didn't sell all those autographs, they were forged. So in all that, I count one real mistake (notice no one talks about the BB gun fight or the soda at Burger King because it happened as a red shirt and no one would read an article about a red shirt freshman taking ketchup cups full of soda).

I also count a Heisman trophy, a national championship, and 0 losses as a starter. Yeah Winston is kind of a baby and he's spoiled, but I would take that baby as my starting quarterback.

You should be a UNC fan if you have no standards beyond winning

[Papa John]

I don't think there was anything at all malicious about that play involving the ref. The ref wasn't standing over center and the center had his hand on the ball ready to snap for an up-tempo play.

It was a miscommunication and the ref did the right thing by not penalizing the team and ejecting Winston. The announcers obviously saw nothing malicious or arrogant in his conduct (judging by the laughs and "that's priceless!" comments).

The whole "it wasn't malicious" line of reasoning is head-scratching... Whether it was malicious or not is irrelevant, just as it's irrelevant whether a player grabs another player's face mask without malice or intent—it's still a penalty.

On the play in question, FSU made an offensive substitution following their first down play. By rule, BC is thereby entitled to make a defensive substitution if they so desire, whether or not FSU is trying to play up-tempo (if your intent is to play up-tempo, you don't send in offensive subs, as it kinda defeats the purpose by allowing the defense to counter with their own subs). The center judge was doing his job in the situation, preventing Winston from snapping the ball until the referee gave him the all-clear to indicate that BC had taken or declined their opportunity to send in a defensive substitution. Winston should know that the official is clearly standing there for a reason, and he should know better than to shove the official out of the way. Contacting an official is a 15-yard, automatic ejection penalty, one that should have been enforced in this situation.

[Dukehky]

You should be a UNC fan if you have no standards beyond winning

I posted a big long reply, but I know it would just be inflammatory. I will just say that Jameis being a baby and taking some food, which is all he has ever even been charged with, is no reason for him to be bombarded by everyone in the world. I do not root against Jameis or FSU, which was ultimately the question in the friend.

All in all, I don't appreciate that comment, and hopefully it was more of a shot at Carolina than me. Duke is letting Jela Duncan come back even though he had academic issues, so it does not surprise me at all that Jameis is still playing, nor does either one bother me. Does that bother you? Because maybe you care only about winning if you let a good player play after he has taken his punishment.

[Henderson]

Here's a litmus test for determining whether a player has an obvious "character issue." If he's arrested for a serious crime, would you say to yourself, "Wow, I didn't see that one coming."?

J.W.: Fail.

[moonpie23]

He did something stupid and stole some crab legs, who cares, I took a Kit-Kat the other day, and he didn't sell all those autographs, they were forged. So in all that, I count one real mistake .

i count 2.....

[Dukehky]

I'm losing and will continue to lose this argument, so I will succumb, okay, Jameis is a bad dude and shouldn't play college football anymore, and apparently I hate FSU now. Gator Chomp.

How about those Blue Devils, huh? That Winslow cat is pretty good!!!

[HK Dukie]

Boone or Winston?

I would take Boone in a landslide. Winston would produce more a couple more wins on the field. But he would hurt our university. I think Winston would devalue the Duke brand and that would hurt everyone associated with the university. Kids make mistakes, but his behavior just continues to be disappointing. I like the others find it hard to root for the probable ACC champion.

The only exception I can see to this logic is that there is the potential that Winston playing for Coach Cut would behave differently off the field. Coach Cut is a miracle worker, but this is a task I'm not sure anyone other than Winston himself is capable of doing.

I hope he gets it figured out. Because he does have the potential to be a good leader as evidenced by him rallying his team time and time again from close games. He's a motivator. Just wish he wasn't such a prick.

[DukieInKansas]

I'm losing and will continue to lose this argument, so I will succumb, okay, Jameis is a bad dude and shouldn't play college football anymore, and apparently I hate FSU now. Gator Chomp.

How about those Blue Devils, huh? That Winslow cat is pretty good!!!

Hey, you can root for whoever you want. It is hard to argue with Winston's abilities. I do have a problem with the number of issues that have come up with him. He doesn't seem to learn and, apparently, no one he has played for has really held his feet to the fire so he would learn to resist his impulses. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt because he is still a young man but someone needs to teach him humility and self control. Children should have learned at a young age that the five finger discount (and the pant leg discount) is a big no-no. To me, one of the bigger signs that he has problems with his character/ego was dressing for a game and arriving on the field when he was suspended. That shouts to me that he thinks he is bigger than everyone and should always get his way. (Conspiracy theory would be that the coach was in on it so that he could tell him off and send him off the field to make it look like he was really in control of the team.)

I think any player that touches the ref in more than incidental contact should be penalized. I still can't believe he wasn't for shoving the ref.

Someone raised the interesting question of whether Coach Cutcliffe would have been able to limit/stop the off field "antics". I wish, for Winston's sake, that someone would.

[alteran]

I posted a big long reply, but I know it would just be inflammatory. I will just say that Jameis being a baby and taking some food, which is all he has ever even been charged with, is no reason for him to be bombarded by everyone in the world. I do not root against Jameis or FSU, which was ultimately the question in the friend.

All in all, I don't appreciate that comment, and hopefully it was more of a shot at Carolina than me. Duke is letting Jela Duncan come back even though he had academic issues, so it does not surprise me at all that Jameis is still playing, nor does either one bother me. Does that bother you? Because maybe you care only about winning if you let a good player play after he has taken his punishment.

This post is a masterpiece in misdirection, obfuscation, apologia, and rationalization.

Babies don't engage in sexual assault. They only reason Jameis isn't charged with sexual assault-- the ONLY reason-- is because Tallahassee police colluded, lied about it, and functionally destroying evidence. The victim IMMEDIATELY reported it.

And the fact that everyone gives him a pass on it now just teaches Tallahassee police to keep on keeping on.

It's silly to call what Jameis did "stealing food," even though it's technically true, because it makes it sound like he's some poor kid stealing a loaf to feed his family, when he's actually a spoiled ath-a-lete who's getting free steak dinners every night at the training table who decided to just steal a delicacy anyway. It might be a smallish crime, but it's a real one.

Not to mention that he's been cited for a host of relatively small infractions (one resulting in $4000 in damages).

I can't even believe you're comparing that to Jela Duncan just to dig yourself out of a rhetorical hole.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This post is a masterpiece in misdirection, obfuscation, apologia, and rationalization.

Babies don't engage in sexual assault. They only reason Jameis isn't charged with sexual assault-- the ONLY reason-- is because Tallahassee police colluded, lied about it, and functionally destroying evidence. The victim IMMEDIATELY reported it.

And the fact that everyone gives him a pass on it now just teaches Tallahassee police to keep on keeping on.

It's silly to call what Jameis did "stealing food," even though it's technically true, because it makes it sound like he's some poor kid stealing a loaf to feed his family, when he's actually a spoiled ath-a-lete who's getting free steak dinners every night at the training table who decided to just steal a delicacy anyway. It might be a smallish crime, but it's a real one.

Not to mention that he's been cited for a host of relatively small infractions (one resulting in $4000 in damages).

I can't even believe you're comparing that to Jela Duncan just to dig yourself out of a rhetorical hole.

I have specifically excluded the sexual assault from this discussion because I think/hope that if it is proven down the road, no one would take Winston's side, and until it is I'd rather not engage in speculation.

Besides, there's plenty of other evidence of juvenile behavior that points to an extreme pattern of entitlement and a lack of understanding of consequences. Not someone I want leading my team or in my locker room, regardless of his talent level.

[chaosmage]

I have a good friend from college who feels about FSU the way we feel about Duke. Outside of FSU, she is a normal, rational human being. When the tragic shooting occurred last week, she decided to send me a picture of Mr. Winston at the rally as evidence that "he's a good guy." When all of the negativity occurred around him, her thought was "why doesn't Fisher have an asst. coach whose sole job is to keep this guy out of trouble?" My question to her was why should he? If this guy has that much going on that he needs a babysitter, is that who you really want around your program? I'm not inferring or concluding that he is or is not guilty. I'm stating that if he's got that much going on, at what point does it become worth the trouble?

My second point is that when the shooting happened, I messaged her out of curiosity on the campus. She proceeded, the next day, to send me a random news article about some nut in California, assuming that my message was taking a shot at FSU. That's my problem with the whole deal. FSU fans about Mr. Winston behave the same way UNC fans do. The attached picture was on her FB page today with no caption.

Two points from this: She may or may not be representative of the fan base, as she is the only one I know currently. FSU fans, ones I've met before, speak of Bowden the way UNC speaks of Dean, despite the instances under either's watch. That bothers the daylights out of me. If it ever came out that Duke cheated with the level of proof equivalent to what's going on a few miles up the road, I'd have to step away from my fandom - it'd be a personal betrayal as an educator. I feel that fans like her create the problems we see in college athletics today - a turning of the head in pursuit of $$$. Second, Mr. Winston has not been convicted in a court of law. I may hold my own opinion, but that's my opinion. I believe he's slimy as a bucket of slugs and is in no way an example of what a college athlete should be, but I think the willful blindness of a fan base is a problem. I recall clearly that all of my "Duke friends" had no issues declaring that facts were required when it came to Lance, Maggette, and the Lacrosse team. I don't remember us wearing blinders like UNC/FSU seems to do.

Ok... so that was more like a dollar post - my bad :-P

[johnb]

Okay, this isn't about jameis (whose prosecution for rape would have been concluded many months ago if he weren't a star athlete), but I didn't want to start a new thread. Instead, it concerns the 4 UConn ball players who were suspended prior to their game in Puerto Rico that they then lost. From the following story, they appear to have violated team rules.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11926740/uconn-suspends-four-players-prior-puerto-rico-title-game

I don't think Uconn had "team rules" under Calhoun, so, while perhaps it's too late for Carolina, perhaps even Florida State might try to adopt some "team rules" in the future.

[Wander]

Do you folks root for FSU to become back-to-back champs?

No. I've never understood why people care about conferences so much. If Duke moved to the SEC or Big 10 tomorrow, 99% of Duke fans would instantly change their conference rooting interest. I'll root for ACC teams if:

1. It directly benefits Duke. But that doesn't matter in football since we're not contending for a playoff spot and it doesn't matter in basketball since we're not going to be a bubble team and we're good enough to contend for a 1 seed against a good schedule without having to worry about how the 7th best ACC team compares to the 6th best Big 10 team as a major factor. I'm sure people will argue that there's some indirect exposure benefits to the conference being better and some money, but honestly, I just don't care that much. We're on TV enough anyway.
2. If there are no other rooting interests involved. If Pittsburgh is playing Washington State in basketball, then sure, I'll root for the ACC team. But I see no reason for conference affiliation to cause me to root for a team I already dislike or root against a Wichita State or Arizona or any of the other non-Duke teams I randomly like.

Besides, it's not like the ACC is competing as a group for anything - no matter what happens the rest of the season, we already have enough information to know that the ACC is worse than the SEC, Pac-12, and Big 12 in football. So I'm supposed to root for a team I don't like just so the ACC ends the season as the 4th best conference instead of the 5th best conference? Who cares? I'm tired of FSU and their weird police football corruption thing and hope they get crushed by the Gators.

[hudlow]

No. I've never understood why people care about conferences so much. If Duke moved to the SEC or Big 10 tomorrow, 99% of Duke fans would instantly change their conference rooting interest. I'll root for ACC teams if:

1. It directly benefits Duke. But that doesn't matter in football since we're not contending for a playoff spot and it doesn't matter in basketball since we're not going to be a bubble team and we're good enough to contend for a 1 seed against a good schedule without having to worry about how the 7th best ACC team compares to the 6th best Big 10 team as a major factor. I'm sure people will argue that there's some indirect exposure benefits to the conference being better and some money, but honestly, I just don't care that much. We're on TV enough anyway.
2. If there are no other rooting interests involved. If Pittsburgh is playing Washington State in basketball, then sure, I'll root for the ACC team. But I see no reason for conference affiliation to cause me to root for a team I already dislike or root against a Wichita State or Arizona or any of the other non-Duke teams I randomly like.

Besides, it's not like the ACC is competing as a group for anything - no matter what happens the rest of the season, we already have enough information to know that the ACC is worse than the SEC, Pac-12, and Big 12 in football. So I'm supposed to root for a team I don't like just so the ACC ends the season as the 4th best conference instead of the 5th best conference? Who cares? I'm tired of FSU and their weird police football corruption thing and hope they get crushed by the Gators.

All that and ABC

[kmspeaks]

The whole "it wasn't malicious" line of reasoning is head-scratching... Whether it was malicious or not is irrelevant, just as it's irrelevant whether a player grabs another player's face mask without malice or intent—it's still a penalty.

On the play in question, FSU made an offensive substitution following their first down play. By rule, BC is thereby entitled to make a defensive substitution if they so desire, whether or not FSU is trying to play up-tempo (if your intent is to play up-tempo, you don't send in offensive subs, as it kinda defeats the purpose by allowing the defense to counter with their own subs). The center judge was doing his job in the situation, preventing Winston from snapping the ball until the referee gave him the all-clear to indicate that BC had taken or declined their opportunity to send in a defensive substitution. Winston should know that the official is clearly standing there for a reason, and he should know better than to shove the official out of the way. Contacting an official is a 15-yard, automatic ejection penalty, one that should have been enforced in this situation.

This sums up my thoughts on the situation. Would it be ok if a basketball player made contact with a ref trying to get the ball from him on an in-bounds play because he wanted to get the ball up the floor but the ref was holding it to get a sub in the game? Would it be ok if a baseball umpire was holding up his hand telling the pitcher to wait and the catcher pulled it down because he wanted the pitch thrown quickly? You don't make contact with officials, period, end of story. When I saw the play initially I was shocked, when I watched it later and got to hear the announcers reaction it was like a cartoon where the character's jaw falls to the floor.

[cruxer]

Winston certainly has had his share of minor off the field incidents, but aren't we really arguing about the unknowable (ie is he a rapist?) After all, if he isn't a rapist, his issues have been relatively minor. If he is a rapist, then, well, he's a rapist and should be in jail. I think all these subsequent issues stem from that initial argument, which we will likely never know the answer to.

As far as Saturday's incident, the officials themselves weren't offended enough to throw the flag, so I don't know how anyone else could be. Sure by rule the D had the right to substitute, but in a hurry-up, it's the officials who enforce that, not the offense. The official didn't get to the right spot in time to hold the play (he should have been standing over the ball blocking the center from snapping it) so he did the best he could to hold the offense. JW was trying to get the ball snapped in a hurry, saw an official in a place he wasn't used to seeing him (and, honestly, where he shouldn't have been), and was trying to move him to get the ball snapped.

-c

[allenmurray]

All in all, I don't appreciate that comment, and hopefully it was more of a shot at Carolina than me.

It was a shot at people who care more about winning than they do about character. if the shoe fits . . .

[MartyClark]

Winston certainly has had his share of minor off the field incidents, but aren't we really arguing about the unknowable (ie is he a rapist?) After all, if he isn't a rapist, his issues have been relatively minor. If he is a rapist, then, well, he's a rapist and should be in jail. I think all these subsequent issues stem from that initial argument, which we will likely never know the answer to.

As far as Saturday's incident, the officials themselves weren't offended enough to throw the flag, so I don't know how anyone else could be. Sure by rule the D had the right to substitute, but in a hurry-up, it's the officials who enforce that, not the offense. The official didn't get to the right spot in time to hold the play (he should have been standing over the ball blocking the center from snapping it) so he did the best he could to hold the offense. JW was trying to get the ball snapped in a hurry, saw an official in a place he wasn't used to seeing him (and, honestly, where he shouldn't have been), and was trying to move him to get the ball snapped.

-c

I respectfully disagree. The crab legs incident has been minimized but, in my opinion, shows a flagrant disrespect for the law and a Tallahassee, athlete sense of entitlement that is very disturbing.

I won't repeat his shouted comments on campus. You can find what he said in other sources. It's disrespectful, hateful and misogynistic. I would not want my wife, daughter, or sister to be the subject of these comments.

He's a bad guy.

[roywhite]

I respectfully disagree. The crab legs incident has been minimized but, in my opinion, shows a flagrant disrespect for the law and a Tallahassee, athlete sense of entitlement that is very disturbing.I won't repeat his shouted comments on campus. You can find what he said in other sources. It's disrespectful, hateful and misogynistic. I would not want my wife, daughter, or sister to be the subject of these comments.

He's a bad guy.

Kind of a post script here, but at least we understand the crab legs incident a little better.

Jameis Winston explains crab legs issue to Jim Harbaugh (Video) (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/jameis-winston-explains-crab-legs-issue-to-jim-harbaugh--video-130229794.html)


"Well, a week before was my buddy’s birthday and we had got a cake," Winston said. "We met a dude that worked inside Publix and he said, 'Hey, anytime you come in here, I got you.' So that day, we just walked out and he hooked us up with that. And when I went to get crab legs, I did the same thing and he just gave them to me and I walked out. And someone from inside the store had told the security that I didn’t pay for them and that’s how the whole thing started."

Certainly an NCAA violation it seems, but I doubt we'll see any action.

[Dukehky]

Kind of a post script here, but at least we understand the crab legs incident a little better.

Jameis Winston explains crab legs issue to Jim Harbaugh (Video) (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/jameis-winston-explains-crab-legs-issue-to-jim-harbaugh--video-130229794.html)



Certainly an NCAA violation it seems, but I doubt we'll see any action.

Who cares?

Getting small amounts of free stuff/petty cash is something that does actually happen everywhere (not like fake classes). Don't poke the bear on this one. I've seen Duke basketball managers get free meals in Durham, and free food for some of their friends (Ca-Ching!). I'm sure that extends to certain athletes as well.