Quinn Jones - Taking Care of the Ball

[flyingdutchdevil]

We're only 3 games in. I get that. In those three games, Quinn Jones - the short, two headed monster that leads our backcourt - have 31 assists. That's not bad. What's great? 4 turnovers. That's a 7.75:1 assist ratio. This number will most certainly fall (as will the Oak's laughable >80% FG), but we have arguably the best backcourt at taking care of the ball.

Quinn, by himself, has only 15 assists (Tyus has one more). But Quinn has only 1 turnover, reaching an also laughable 15:1 ratio.

It's looking good that Quinn will graduate from Duke with the best assist:turnover ratio of any Duke player in school history. Let that sink in for a sec.

Quinn Cook has his faults: he's not the best on-ball defender, slow laterally, loves driving into traffic and shooting some insane layup with 7 footers closing in on him, hero ball...etc etc. He's cut down on a lot of this this year. But please, please never ever use the phrase "Quinn Cook does not protect the ball." Don't care how you slice the data, Quinn Cook just doesn't turn the ball over.

Thank you Quinn.

[Henderson]

Glad you started this thread FDD.

Not only is he playing well, but he looks to be having fun and happily/effectively embracing his role as leader of the team.

Thank you, indeed.

[Troublemaker]

Quinn Cook has his faults: he's not the best on-ball defender, slow laterally, loves driving into traffic and shooting some insane layup with 7 footers closing in on him, hero ball...etc etc.

I think he makes those a good percentage of the time, enough that I wouldn't want him to stop trying to finish in traffic. I wish Sheed had the same knack.

Quinn appears on his way to becoming yet another Duke senior who puts together a great senior season campaign that exceeds many expectations.

[Henderson]

Does Quinn Cook have a future in the NBA? He's not showing on the NBA Draft Express mock draft. But that was created months ago.

[Reisen]

But please, please never ever use the phrase "Quinn Cook does not protect the ball." Don't care how you slice the data, Quinn Cook just doesn't turn the ball over.

Thank you Quinn.

You admitted a sample size of n=3 is hard to draw definitive conclusions from. I honestly don't know, what was Cook's assist to turnover ratio last year?

[CDu]

You admitted a sample size of n=3 is hard to draw definitive conclusions from. I honestly don't know, what was Cook's assist to turnover ratio last year?

Last year it was 2.75:1, which is one of the best ratios ever for a Duke player (the best for anyone with at least 3 apg is just barely above 3.0). His career A:TO ratio is 2.72, which I believe is the best ever at Duke.

[Henderson]

You admitted a sample size of n=3 is hard to draw definitive conclusions from. I honestly don't know, what was Cook's assist to turnover ratio last year?

He's been a 2:1+ guy his entire career at Duke. CDu has the stats, but I wanted to point out that he's been consistent in that regard.

[CDu]

He's been a 2:1+ guy his entire career at Duke. CDu has the stats, but I wanted to point out that he's been consistent in that regard.

Yes that's correct. His season-end averages over his first 3 years have been: 3.5:1, 2.41:1, and 2.68:1.

Cook hasn't necessarily been consistent during the season (in fact, he's somewhat consistently waned in February/March as compared to Nov-January). But his season-end averages for A:TO have always been very solid.

[Troublemaker]

Does Quinn Cook have a future in the NBA?

Seems really unlikely because he doesn't offer a good size/athleticism package, but heck, Lance Thomas is an NBA starter right now and I would've considered that more surprising than Quinn making a roster.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Seems really unlikely because he doesn't offer a good size/athleticism package, but heck, Lance Thomas is an NBA starter right now and I would've considered that more surprising than Quinn making a roster.

Yeah. Quinn isn't a combo guard in the NBA; he's a 1. And he lacks the speed and/or size to excel at the 1. He's a solid shooter and great ball handler, but his overall skillset unfortunately doesn't add much value to an NBA team.

Quinn will get a few looks here and there, but I'd be shocked if he landed on a roster. Europe is a great place for Quinn, and an easy buck too.

[azzefkram]

Does Quinn Cook have a future in the NBA? He's not showing on the NBA Draft Express mock draft. But that was created months ago.

Chad Ford had some interesting tidbits from scouts/GMs after the Champions classic. It's behind the paywall, but it seems Quinn's prospects might be a bit better than we might have guessed.

[SilkyJ]

Don't care how you slice the data, Quinn Cook just doesn't turn the ball over.

Thank you Quinn.

I'll echo the thank you. Love what QC is doing and am on board with your sentiment, tho using a 3 game sample isn't really "slicing data." Here's a decent reference perhaps: Jon Scheyer started off 21:0 (ast:to) in the first 4 games of his senior year. 11 games in, (mid December), Jon was having "pedestrian" games of 9:3 and 8:2, his total A:TO was down to 5.90, and he ended the year at an incredible 2.98, which is close to the all time mark, though I'm not exactly sure what the exact record is for a season (was it Wojo's junior year of 3.03?). I expect Quinn to have a very good year, maybe even a great one, but I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in to break the record based on 3 games.

He certainly could tho--in an aggressive case where you take Quinn's best Assist/Min average (this season) and his best TO/Min average (his freshman season) his a/to would be 3.66, which would beat out his 3.50 as a freshman and put his career at 2.94 based on playing 36 games this year. I don't have the all-time leaderboard stats, but sounds like CDu does and that would simply raise Quinn higher on his own leaderboard in terms of career a:to. We'll see what he does, maybe he'll break records....look forward to finding out, b/c if he does, we are going to be really, really good.

Also, and I harp on this all the time, but I think we need a senior leader to be in top 2-3 best players on the court in order to have success in March. When our seniors are good, we are good. Quinn is fulfilling that and seems to be the leader of the team even tho the ball has come out of his hands to a degree. Coach K raved about his leadership after the MSU win, we need that to continue especially in a year where we rely on so many freshman.


Last year it was 2.75:1, which is one of the best ratios ever for a Duke player (the best for anyone with at least 3 apg is just barely above 3.0). His career A:TO ratio is 2.72, which I believe is the best ever at Duke.

Two Qs for you CDu: 1) see my question above: what is the best all time a:to? Was it Wojo's? 2) Do you have a good source for all-time stats? I get my individual player stats from http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/ but I can't find a good place to get the "all-time leader" stats.

[BD80]

Does Quinn Cook have a future in the NBA? ...


Seems really unlikely because he doesn't offer a good size/athleticism package, ...

John Stockton says hello

[flyingdutchdevil]

While I love what Quinn is doing, its a little early for the hyperbole and as others pointed out, using a 3 game sample isn't really "slicing data."

Jon Scheyer started off 21:0 (ast:to) in the first 4 games of his senior year. 11 games in, (mid December), Jon was having "pedestrian" games of 9:3 and 8:2, his total A:TO was down to 5.90, and he ended the year at an incredible 2.98, which is close to the all time mark, though I'm not exactly sure what the exact record is for a season (was it Wojo's junior year of 3.03?). I expect Quinn to have a very good year, maybe even a great one, but I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in to break the record based on 3 games.

He certainly could tho--in an aggressive case where you take Quinn's best Assist/Min average (this season) and his best TO/Min average (his freshman season) his a/to would be 3.66, which would beat out his 3.50 as a freshman and put his career at 2.94 based on playing 36 games this year. I don't have the all-time leaderboard stats, but sounds like CDu does and that would simply raise Quinn higher on his own leaderboard in terms of career a:to.

Actually, it's not too early. Quinn has always taken care of the ball, as CDu's stats have shown. Wojo currently has the highest...at 2.50: https://twitter.com/espncbb/status/533315991267065856

My initial post wasn't to say that Quinn's 3 game sample size shows that he's amazing at taking care of the ball. Rather, Quinn has always taken great care of the ball at 3 full years at Duke...and his three games to start his senior year have reiterated that.

One of Quinn's biggest criticisms on DBR was stupid turnovers. He, like any other player in the history of college basketball, made stupid turnovers from time to time. But Quinn doesn't turn it over much, and that's an underrated quality in his game.

[SilkyJ]

Chad Ford had some interesting tidbits from scouts/GMs after the Champions classic. It's behind the paywall, but it seems Quinn's prospects might be a bit better than we might have guessed.

Link?


Actually, it's not too early. Quinn has always taken care of the ball, as CDu's stats have shown. Wojo currently has the highest...at 2.50: https://twitter.com/espncbb/status/533315991267065856

My initial post wasn't to say that Quinn's 3 game sample size shows that he's amazing at taking care of the ball. Rather, Quinn has always taken great care of the ball at 3 full years at Duke...and his three games to start his senior year have reiterated that.

One of Quinn's biggest criticisms on DBR was stupid turnovers. He, like any other player in the history of college basketball, made stupid turnovers from time to time. But Quinn doesn't turn it over much, and that's an underrated quality in his game.

Gotcha. I agree he does a great job taking care of the ball especially given his high usage. I thought you referring to the single season mark and were predicting he'd break that record. Either way, I love what QC is giving us. We need it.

[Kedsy]

His career A:TO ratio is 2.72, which I believe is the best ever at Duke.

It is definitely the best ever at Duke. By a lot.

Here are Duke's career leaders in a/to ratio:

Cook*, 2.72
Wojo, 2.50
Duhon, 2.31
Amaker, 2.11
Scheyer, 2.09

* - career not over yet

FDD is right. Quinn Cook takes care of the ball.

[CDu]

Two Qs for you CDu: 1) see my question above: what is the best all time a:to? Was it Wojo's? 2) Do you have a good source for all-time stats? I get my individual player stats from http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/ but I can't find a good place to get the "all-time leader" stats.

1. I don't have a data table for the all-time leader, but I've read it was Wojo (who had 505 assists to 202 turnovers for a 2.5:1 ratio). Wojo also has the highest single-season A:TO ratio (minimum 3 apg - I'm not including guys like Thornton who averaged a higher ratio one year but didn't get many assists because he played mostly off the ball and just passed around the perimeter) at 3.03 in his junior year.

Cook is currently at 2.72:1 for his career thanks to his silly start to this season. He started the year at 2.64:1. Unless he has a really big dropoff, he'll end up tops all-time for Duke in the career numbers. And perhaps comfortably so.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Link?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/11901891/jahlil-okafor-remains-ahead-prospect-pack-following-champion-classic-nba-draft

Can't say much, but GMs really seem to love Cook.

[Kedsy]

...which is close to the all time mark, though I'm not exactly sure what the exact record is for a season (was it Wojo's junior year of 3.03?).

Yes, Wojo's 3.03 is Duke's all-time a/to record.

The top five season a/to performances at Duke:

1. Wojo, 1996-97: 3.03
2. Scheyer, 2009-10: 2.98
3. Amaker, 1984-85: 2.88
4. Duhon, 2000-01: 2.85
5. Cook, 2013-14: 2.68


Two Qs for you CDu: 1) see my question above: what is the best all time a:to? Was it Wojo's? 2) Do you have a good source for all-time stats? I get my individual player stats from http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/ but I can't find a good place to get the "all-time leader" stats.

I'm not CDu, but Duke's media guide is a good source for Duke records. Here's a link to the 2013-14 media guide:

http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/web-docs/2013-14-MBB-MediaGuide/201314_MBB-MG_Complete.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

[SilkyJ]

Yes, Wojo's 3.03 is Duke's all-time a/to record.

The top five season a/to performances at Duke:

1. Wojo, 1996-97: 3.03
2. Scheyer, 2009-10: 2.98
3. Amaker, 1984-85: 2.88
4. Duhon, 2000-01: 2.85
5. Cook, 2013-14: 2.68



I'm not CDu, but Duke's media guide is a good source for Duke records. Here's a link to the 2013-14 media guide:

http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/web-docs/2013-14-MBB-MediaGuide/201314_MBB-MG_Complete.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/11901891/jahlil-okafor-remains-ahead-prospect-pack-following-champion-classic-nba-draft

Can't say much, but GMs really seem to love Cook.

Thank you gents. Sporks for all (except kedsy, b/c I have to spread some love apparently)

[CDu]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/11901891/jahlil-okafor-remains-ahead-prospect-pack-following-champion-classic-nba-draft

Can't say much, but GMs really seem to love Cook.

Yeah, Cook has all the tools to be a backup PG in the NBA. You want a guy who can handle the ball, run the offense, and either provide scoring punch or defensive prowess. He doesn't have to be an elite playmaker. Cook fits the bill on the offensive side of the ball for sure. Again - not an elite PG and not a defensive stopper, but capable of protecting the ball, getting you into your sets, and scoring some on his own. I won't be at all surprised if he gets a look from somebody, and not shocked if he got drafted in the second round.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, Cook has all the tools to be a backup PG in the NBA. You want a guy who can handle the ball, run the offense, and either provide scoring punch or defensive prowess. He doesn't have to be an elite playmaker. Cook fits the bill on the offensive side of the ball for sure. Again - not an elite PG and not a defensive stopper, but capable of protecting the ball, getting you into your sets, and scoring some on his own. I won't be at all surprised if he gets a look from somebody, and not shocked if he got drafted in the second round.

Very good points. I never considered how different and stable a back-up PG is. Quinn will not turn the ball over, even against NBA-level competition. 2nd round makes sense, especially for a team with a smart GM looking for a need (so Quinn will be a Spur next year ;)).

[jv001]

Very good points. I never considered how different and stable a back-up PG is. Quinn will not turn the ball over, even against NBA-level competition. 2nd round makes sense, especially for a team with a smart GM looking for a need (so Quinn will be a Spur next year ;)).

That would be an achievement. Seth Curry can't stick in the NBA and Quinn makes it. Lot's of talk on another thread about how bad, Kyrie's on the ball defense is. I don't think Quinn is any better on the ball defender than KI, but I hope I'm wrong and Quinn makes an NBA roster. GoDuke!

[CDu]

That would be an achievement. Seth Curry can't stick in the NBA and Quinn makes it. Lot's of talk on another thread about how bad, Kyrie's on the ball defense is. I don't think Quinn is any better on the ball defender than KI, but I hope I'm wrong and Quinn makes an NBA roster. GoDuke!

Apples and oranges. Curry was/is a SG in the body of a PG. Cook is a PG who can score. It is harder to make it as the former than the latter.

Cook won't make the league as a defender; he would make it for what he can provide on offense.

[jv001]

Apples and oranges. Curry was/is a SG in the body of a PG. Cook is a PG who can score. It is harder to make it as the former than the latter.

Cook won't make the league as a defender; he would make it for what he can provide on offense.

I hope you're right. That would mean Quinn has a very good senior year. GoDuke!

[Richard Berg]

I hope Quinn gets a look from savvy GMs, but I don't think it'll be RC Buford. Corey Joseph is even more solid/steady than QC; Patty Mills is a better shooter. If he lands on the Spurs it'll be because Mills demands too much $$ and we need cheaper backups to re-sign Leonard while staying under cap.

PS I'm not that surprised Seth didn't stick, due to size vs skill (PG vs SG) mismatch. Similar story with DeMarcus, who I doubt was any taller than Seth. Nolan is the real head-scratcher among that crowd -- someone should have given him the chance to develop into Ben Gordon lite.

[Edouble]

I hope Quinn gets a look from savvy GMs, but I don't think it'll be RC Buford. Corey Joseph is even more solid/steady than QC; Patty Mills is a better shooter. If he lands on the Spurs it'll be because Mills demands too much $$ and we need cheaper backups to re-sign Leonard while staying under cap.

PS I'm not that surprised Seth didn't stick, due to size vs skill (PG vs SG) mismatch. Similar story with DeMarcus, who I doubt was any taller than Seth. Nolan is the real head-scratcher among that crowd -- someone should have given him the chance to develop into Ben Gordon lite.

I think this is a great post. Quinn could be as good a three point shooter as Patty Mills. He's been really solid from three for two years.

I think Quinn is great with a Kobe/Jordan/Iverson type guard that wants to have the ball a lot. We've seen how good he is with Tyus, who is responsible for the ball handing duties when he's in the game. Quinn's D isn't anywhere near Eric Snow's, but he's gotta be as good as Smush Parker or Norris Cole. I think Quinn's above average decision making, shooting, and ball handling are what get him into the league. If he can handle his end on defense, I do think he's attractive as a low liability, solid point guard.

I also think he's on the plus side of his listed 6'2", as I am 6'2" and I was looking up at him when I asked him for an autograph after a game. I'll be interested to see his official measurements next spring.

[DevilYouthCoach]

It may be of interest to some of you that Quinn Cook's amazing Assist to Turnover record is in fact being surpassed by his former teammate at DeMatha Catholic High School in Hyattsville, Maryland -- James Robinson who now is playing for Pitt and setting A/T records there! See the article that appeared in the DBR a couple of months ago. Quinn is a better scorer than James, but both of these guys grew up playing in the DC area and both led DeMatha to league championships. I have a feeling that James Robinson is going to break out as the Pitt star by his senior year too, just as Quinn is doing for Duke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Quinn Through 5 games:
Assist:Turnover: 5.25
FG%: 54%
3 FG%: 49%

Jones Through 5 games:
Assist:Turnover: 5.00

Yup. Taking care of business.

[COYS]

Quinn Through 5 games:
Assist:Turnover: 5.25
FG%: 54%
3 FG%: 49%

Jones Through 5 games:
Assist:Turnover: 5.00

Yup. Taking care of business.

This is a big part of how our offensive efficiency stayed solid even though our shooting against Stanford and Temple was pretty bad. Add the low turnover rate of our guards to Amile's ability on the offensive glass and we get a nice firewall against bad shooting nights.

[Kedsy]

This is a big part of how our offensive efficiency stayed solid even though our shooting against Stanford and Temple was pretty bad. Add the low turnover rate of our guards to Amile's ability on the offensive glass and we get a nice firewall against bad shooting nights.

I agree with this, but I'd like to also point out that the team didn't really have bad shooting nights in Brooklyn. Basically, just Tyus and Jahlil had bad shooting nights. If you take away Tyus's 1 for 13 and Jahlil's 11 for 30, the team shot a respectable 45.5%. Or, put another way, if Tyus could have managed 38% (5 for 13) and Jahlil 57% (17 for 30, not too much to expect considering Jahlil didn't take any shots outside of a few feet), Duke would have shot a pretty good 47.5%.

Yeah, I know, wishes and horses and all that. But my point is it's possible to chalk the "poor shooting nights" simply to freshman jitters on the part of Tyus and Jahlil, playing in their first college games away from home. Or if not jitters then at least something tangible that can be learned (i.e., Tyus getting a better handle on shot selection and/or Jahlil learning to play against physical bigs).

Or even more simply, our shooting wasn't nearly as bad as it appeared.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Quinn A:T - 4.4

Jones A:T - 6.0

Combined A:T - 5.2

Some other fun Quinn stats:
FG%: 50%
3FG%: 43%
FT%: 100%

Quinn is second on the team in points, assists, 3FG% (MP3 not counted), and steals. And this is often against players who are physically bigger and potentially more athletic than Quinn. Take a bow.

[CDu]

Quinn A:T - 4.4

Jones A:T - 6.0

Combined A:T - 5.2

Some other fun Quinn stats:
FG%: 50%
3FG%: 43%
FT%: 100%

Quinn is second on the team in points, assists, 3FG% (MP3 not counted), and steals. And this is often against players who are physically bigger and potentially more athletic than Quinn. Take a bow.

Slight quibble, the actual A:TO ratio for Quinn Jones is 5.4 (70 assists to 13 turnovers). Tyus Jones (he of the 6.0 A:TO ratio) provides more than half of the assists and turnovers, so he actually pulls the combined ratio closer to his stat line than simply taking the average of the two players' stat lines.

But yeah, both guys have been terrific so far this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Slight quibble, the actual A:TO ratio for Quinn Jones is 5.4 (70 assists to 13 turnovers). Tyus Jones (he of the 6.0 A:TO ratio) provides more than half of the assists and turnovers, so he actually pulls the combined ratio closer to his stat line than simply taking the average of the two players' stat lines.

But yeah, both guys have been terrific so far this year.

Thanks for the accurate math, but I wasn't taking the average. Took the combined apg (10.0) and divided by tpg (1.9). I did two things wrong: I used ESPN stats that give me only one decimal place, and I can't use a calculator (which would give me 5.26, so I should have rounded to 5.3).

Your measurement is more accurate. My inability to use a better source of data and inability to use a calculator is not accurate.