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devil84
11-20-2014, 11:13 PM
Post your comments here.

OldPhiKap
11-20-2014, 11:20 PM
Congrats to the Heels.

We started poorly, probably overhyped, and never recovered. Maturity issue you hope will improve over time.

Next play, beat Wake, win our bowl.

Crap.

cruxer
11-20-2014, 11:23 PM
It's nice that we're good enough that this loss genuinely sucks, but on the other hand this loss genuinely sucks. We didn't show any fight until the game was effectively over. Ugh. Long layoff to lick our wounds and take it out on the Deacs!

-c

Bob Green
11-20-2014, 11:23 PM
It started bad and got worse. Fumbling on our first two possessions set the tone for the game. The crowd was out of the game at 14-0 and was not a factor. The offense was ineffective all night.

Reilly
11-20-2014, 11:23 PM
... Next play, beat Wake, win our bowl ...

.... and finish with TEN wins this year, and TWENT'Y wins over the past two years.

TWENTY wins in two years. Hell yes, Duke football.

Reilly
11-20-2014, 11:27 PM
Lots to be thankful for. We have time to heal physically and emotionally. The team will be together at Thanksgiving and Cut will read his poem. The seniors can go out with a win -- remember how we'd lose to WFU year after year after year? We will go to a bowl -- another month to prepare and grow and God does this staff get teams ready to play in the bowls. We can win 10 games this year.

duke09hms
11-20-2014, 11:40 PM
Very very difficult loss. I'm afraid such a spectacular failure on the biggest of stages will set our program back years. "Same old Duke football" will be the standard refrain among the casual fans that stopped by Wally Wade tonight, and it will only take even more for them to give us a second chance.

I'm most bothered by the lack of mental toughness in this year's team. One bad play seems to be enough for us to lose our intensity and focus. Boone's pick against VT last week. Sirk's fumble tonight. We had it going great before that - stopped their explosive offense on a 3-and-out first drive, then Crowder returns the punt inside their territory. We're driving driving into the red zone. Fumble. Game essentially over then.

What strikes me is our weakness in the passing game. I'd expect that with Cut's rep as QB guru, we'd have strong passers in the rotation pushing Boone, which I am not going to get into here. But Jesus, can you imagine how Thad Lewis or Renfree would have done with our O-line, RBs, and defense? Also does anyone know what happened to Johnell Barnes and Ryan Smith? These guys were heralded as our ultra-quick athletic WR studs of the future when they came in a couple years ago. We basically only have Crowder, McCaffrey, and stone-hands Blakeney. Now Barnes did start making plays in the 4th quarter, but really what's been going on with their development?

roywhite
11-20-2014, 11:46 PM
Well, that was disappointing.

Frankly, I think we've seen Duke over-achieve by playing some nearly error-free games. When we do make mistakes, we don't have the overall talent to beat a number of teams. Need to continue to upgrade our overall talent, more speed overall, more size at positions like receivers and running back.

By "star-gazing" at the recruiting results, it looks like the 2015 class will be one of our best, and the 2016 class is off to an even better start. Coach Cut has achieved a lot, but he's not done yet.

burnspbesq
11-20-2014, 11:52 PM
Poor Ka'lia Johnson picked a bad night for her first triple-double. Going to be totally forgotten. All anyone will remember about this night is that the football team failed to show up for a Carolina game. Which, in my book, is kinda inexcusable.

duke09hms
11-20-2014, 11:55 PM
Well, that was disappointing.

Frankly, I think we've seen Duke over-achieve by playing some nearly error-free games. When we do make mistakes, we don't have the overall talent to beat a number of teams. Need to continue to upgrade our overall talent, more speed overall, more size at positions like receivers and running back.

By "star-gazing" at the recruiting results, it looks like the 2015 class will be one of our best, and the 2016 class is off to an even better start. Coach Cut has achieved a lot, but he's not done yet.

Yes, when we suffer from a talent disparity with most ACC teams, our margin for error is so small. UNC even tried to help us out too.

I'd settle for size and strength along the defensive front 6/7; we're getting there on our O-line, but I'm so tired of seeing our defensive linemen and linebackers look like midgets compared to tight ends. Would love to see us have a physically intimidating front seven like Stanford does.

Looking at future recruiting like you're doing, it's so vital to keep the momentum going to make sure we hold on to these commits and continue getting these 4-star recruits. UNC has 26 4-star recruits on their roster btw, more than VT. With the 2015-2016 recruits, we could really start making waves with that talent.

Coballs
11-20-2014, 11:56 PM
Sorry, there was nothing good to take away from this game. Our expectations for football have changed and tonight did not live up to them. This was just awful. Tonight relegates us to an irrelevant bowl game which, of course, I hope we win handily. But my expectations were much higher (and, at the time, realistic) just one week ago.

WakeDevil
11-21-2014, 12:06 AM
This saves us a curb stomping against FSU.

I'll skip watching the Wake game. It's meaningless.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-21-2014, 12:09 AM
Props to the Heels. They came in armed for bear. They needed it worse and wanted it more. On the other hand, I'd still rather be us than the team with three unsportsmanlike penalties. bless their cheating hearts.
Love, Ima

duke09hms
11-21-2014, 12:11 AM
This saves us a curb stomping against FSU.

I'll skip watching the Wake game. It's meaningless.

Consecutive 10-win seasons aren't meaningless. Need to win against Wake and finally get our first bowl win since 1961.

paris95
11-21-2014, 12:15 AM
On the one hand, if you'd told me 5 years ago that Duke had a pretty good shot at winning 20 games in 2 years, I would have thought I'd passed on to the great beyond. On the other, it really sucks to lay an egg in such a big game. We had so much support, so much enthusiasm, and to be playing for a shot in a championship game in your home stadium against your arch rival, and to play so badly in all phases is just disappointing. It's one thing to lose to a team that is really hitting it's stride like Carolina is, but it's another to get embarrassed on national TV. I think we can pretty much shelve the "Duke doesn't get any respect" or "why do we always get the bad kickoff time" or "why are we ranked so low even though we only have one loss" talk. Your answer or response to those questions is tonight. Every team has off weeks, but ours have come in high profile games and the doubters saw the Duke team that they've been waiting for for the last two seasons. We'll disappear from the national and conference radar for a while, and maybe that is just where we are as a program right now. We are so much better than we used to be and we are still headed in the right direction but we're not ready to play with the big boys regularly. We still have to play error free football to win against mediocre to good teams and that's just not possible every week. I'm just bummed because I thought we could take a bigger leap forward this year in terms of getting respect than we have. Maybe those expectations were unrealistic, but as Andy Dufresne said in Shawshank, hope is a good thing.

We have beaten a lot of teams that would have beaten us in years' past, and that has been great, and we have a chance to win 10 games....AGAIN! No one takes us lightly or questions why Duke even plays football, and we have been in the hunt for the ACC championship into November for the last two seasons. I guess it ain't that bad! Go Duke, next play, beat Wake, win Bowl.

Wow, that was a really cathartic process. I got on to write about misery and I ended up feeling positive. Thanks DBR, or should I say DB&FR!

dukelifer
11-21-2014, 12:15 AM
Very very difficult loss. I'm afraid such a spectacular failure on the biggest of stages will set our program back years. "Same old Duke football" will be the standard refrain among the casual fans that stopped by Wally Wade tonight, and it will only take even more for them to give us a second chance.

I'm most bothered by the lack of mental toughness in this year's team. One bad play seems to be enough for us to lose our intensity and focus. Boone's pick against VT last week. Sirk's fumble tonight. We had it going great before that - stopped their explosive offense on a 3-and-out first drive, then Crowder returns the punt inside their territory. We're driving driving into the red zone. Fumble. Game essentially over then.

What strikes me is our weakness in the passing game. I'd expect that with Cut's rep as QB guru, we'd have strong passers in the rotation pushing Boone, which I am not going to get into here. But Jesus, can you imagine how Thad Lewis or Renfree would have done with our O-line, RBs, and defense? Also does anyone know what happened to Johnell Barnes and Ryan Smith? These guys were heralded as our ultra-quick athletic WR studs of the future when they came in a couple years ago. We basically only have Crowder, McCaffrey, and stone-hands Blakeney. Now Barnes did start making plays in the 4th quarter, but really what's been going on with their development?

Biggest Stage? Not sure this will even raise a blip outside of 15-501. Duke lost badly to their rivals on a Thursday night game. Duke has played great football and played well for most of the season. This was a bad outcome - but the loss does not define where they are as a program. The guys need to get some rest and finish out strong. After watching Duke struggle for a very long time- I will take a winning season any time they come. Boone has lost only a few games in the regular season as a starter. He has not been great this season- but the kid has been a winner. Duke is never going to be an upper echelon program- but the guys can compete and win. This is not the "Same Old Duke Football". If you believe that- then you have not been watching.

duke09hms
11-21-2014, 12:37 AM
Biggest Stage? Not sure this will even raise a blip outside of 15-501. Duke lost badly to their rivals on a Thursday night game. Duke has played great football and played well for most of the season. This was a bad outcome - but the loss does not define where they are as a program. The guys need to get some rest and finish out strong. After watching Duke struggle for a very long time- I will take a winning season any time they come. Boone has lost only a few games in the regular season as a starter. He has not been great this season- but the kid has been a winner. Duke is never going to be an upper echelon program- but the guys can compete and win. This is not the "Same Old Duke Football". If you believe that- then you have not been watching.

Doesn't get much bigger for us. Home game, sell out, awesome atmosphere, national TV, hated rival. We're talking about the casual fan and what they are taking away from going to a sellout crowd against our rival. Or the alumni who's heard all this talk about Duke Football rising, so they turn on ESPN to tune into national TV for a colossal embarrassment. "Same old Duke football" will be their thought.

You and I will continue following Duke football through thick and thin, but we need the casual fan to come aboard if we want to take the next step.

And I disagree with your statement of "Duke is never going to be an upper echelon program," and I'd imagine Cutcliffe and Kevin White do too. We've shown that we CAN compete for ACC Championships and thus a chance at the CFP. Now it's about increasing our margin of error with better recruiting, coaching, and execution. I'm not expecting a Stanford-like 4 straight BCS bowls, but that's not outside of the realm of possibility for us to get on their winning level with a bit of luck.

These last two losses were winnable games, and there was a tiny chance at the CFP if we won out. Next play, next game, next level. Beat WAKE!

Kfanarmy
11-21-2014, 01:04 AM
Biggest Stage? Not sure this will even raise a blip outside of 15-501. Duke lost badly to their rivals on a Thursday night game. Duke has played great football and played well for most of the season. This was a bad outcome - but the loss does not define where they are as a program. The guys need to get some rest and finish out strong. After watching Duke struggle for a very long time- I will take a winning season any time they come. Boone has lost only a few games in the regular season as a starter. He has not been great this season- but the kid has been a winner. Duke is never going to be an upper echelon program- but the guys can compete and win. This is not the "Same Old Duke Football". If you believe that- then you have not been watching.

What? OK, the stage was minimized by the competing NFL game, that's a break I guess.

I agree that the loss doesn't define the program, but Duke played in the championship game for the ACC title against the eventual National Champions last year. That's a pretty good step in the road toward being an "upper echelon program." They have the potential to have back to back ten+ win seasons. While there is room for improvement, how many more would it take before folks should consider them "upper echelon?"

Boone is interesting. On the one hand, you can't deny his record; on the other hand, he has had a few pretty poor performances. The D wasn't there today against UNC, but I thought Boone made some pretty bad decisions as well.

OZ
11-21-2014, 01:06 AM
Games and opportunities like tonight are the reasons you play sports. Tonight presented that longed for moment when you take that big step forward. You finally have your stadium full...going against your major rival...playing for a division championship...on a national stage...and you lay an egg. Tonight was painful in more ways than one. I truly found it difficult to believe what I was witnessing. Inexcusable is the word that comes to mind.
The only thing good about tonight was my new coat kept me warm.

uh_no
11-21-2014, 01:27 AM
turns out the parking + stadium fullness was the least of our worries about perception on national TV....

such a shame...people turned out, things ran pretty smoothly IMO....except the product on the field


very sad to see championship hopes end this way. Maybe the bright lining is that we have a better shot to get that bowl win this year.

there was poor play all around....but primo IMO is the inability to hit receivers with any consistency....we've seen it so many times this year....especially this past month....the defense just doesn't need to work to contain the passing game...and can focus on blitz + run... and such a shame after what the O did last year....

i hope for the best in our final 2 games, and look towards an interesting QB battle next year.

-bdbd
11-21-2014, 01:31 AM
Silver lining: this loss may have saved us from two "other" losses, since we won't have to face FSU in CLT, and we just stepped down a rung on the bowl ladder. So think in terms of facing Penn State or MD in the Pinstripes Bowl (or Utah or ASU in the Sun), versus Oklahoma or K-State in the Russell (or Miss St. in Capital One as ESPN was projecting last week). That well could mean two less "post-season" losses for us.

See, the glass IS half-full! :rolleyes:

dragoneye776
11-21-2014, 02:06 AM
such a shame...people turned out, things ran pretty smoothly IMO....except the product on the field

Just wanted to highlight one issue that did NOT run smoothly at all. In fact it made hundreds of students furious and what happened was far worse than described in this article.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/11/21/student-line-turns-chaotic-wallace-wade-reaches-capacity

One key thing the article didn't mention that the student gate was not even opened until 6:50 PM, which was absolutely terrible planning for the number of students. There were thousands of students in the DevilsGate area unable to get in. Once they opened the gate, they only opened one line at a time, sometimes two, causing a ridiculously slow pace. There were no line monitors so students that just arrived ended up at the front of the line and eventually the thousands of students converged downhill in a extremely dangerous and pushy crowd. Many students spent about half an hour in that crowd squeezed on all sides with no room to move. I'm a decently strong guy, and I had difficulty breathing and my back hurt afterwards. Other students were not so lucky; some got seriously injured and I saw several more crying. There were a few yellow-jacket staff members standing around with no idea what to do.

bjornolf
11-21-2014, 06:31 AM
To me, last night appeared to be the perfect storm. Heartbreaking loss to VT followed by a short week of preparation to play a desparate rival team with (albeit slightly) superior talent. Duke is a decently talented team, but they rely on execution. A good coach needs a full week to prepare for a game like that, ESPECIALLY after the loss to VT. Superior coaching is nullified by that short week of preparation. The offensive line wasn't cohesive, Boone seemed just off all night, guys were out of position, execution penalties like false starts, early turnovers. It just snowballed. It happens, unfortunately. In games like this one, talent has a HUGE advantage over skill. If this were a Saturday game, we might not win, but I bet it's MUCH closer. Heck, we might even have won. Our 19 year old kids were still licking their wounds from the last loss. They didn't appear to be psychologically OR mentally ready for this game.

Next play. That's the most important part. How do the guys get up for the next game? I bet Cutcliffe gets the job done and we see a completely different team next week.

arnie
11-21-2014, 07:13 AM
Well, that was disappointing.

Frankly, I think we've seen Duke over-achieve by playing some nearly error-free games. When we do make mistakes, we don't have the overall talent to beat a number of teams. Need to continue to upgrade our overall talent, more speed overall, more size at positions like receivers and running back.

By "star-gazing" at the recruiting results, it looks like the 2015 class will be one of our best, and the 2016 class is off to an even better start. Coach Cut has achieved a lot, but he's not done yet.

Accurate summary. We've been fortunate in the past 2 years with game outcomes and now mistakes and simply better athletes have turned the tables on us. Cut's recruiting has been ok but not nearly to level of UNC VPI and others. He's recruiting better athletes for next 2 years and that should payoff. I'm still not understanding what's happened with Boone and passing game, but that all changes next year.

uh_no
11-21-2014, 08:15 AM
Just wanted to highlight one issue that did NOT run smoothly at all. In fact it made hundreds of students furious and what happened was far worse than described in this article.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/11/21/student-line-turns-chaotic-wallace-wade-reaches-capacity

One key thing the article didn't mention that the student gate was not even opened until 6:50 PM, which was absolutely terrible planning for the number of students. There were thousands of students in the DevilsGate area unable to get in. Once they opened the gate, they only opened one line at a time, sometimes two, causing a ridiculously slow pace. There were no line monitors so students that just arrived ended up at the front of the line and eventually the thousands of students converged downhill in a extremely dangerous and pushy crowd. Many students spent about half an hour in that crowd squeezed on all sides with no room to move. I'm a decently strong guy, and I had difficulty breathing and my back hurt afterwards. Other students were not so lucky; some got seriously injured and I saw several more crying. There were a few yellow-jacket staff members standing around with no idea what to do.

the same thing happened at the alabama game a few years ago....i don't understand how they don't expect or plan for large numbers of students. at least at the alabama game they let new students in once the stadium emptied.

that's absurd they didn't come up with a plan for that after alabama.

TruBlu
11-21-2014, 08:46 AM
Props to the Heels. They came in armed for bear. They needed it worse and wanted it more. On the other hand, I'd still rather be us than the team with three unsportsmanlike penalties. bless their cheating hearts.
Love, Ima

Absolutely no props to the Heel fans, who began their obnoxious "Tar . . . Heel" chant in the middle of the Duke band playing the Alma Mater before opening kickoff.

Also overheard a unc fan (with a mullet) departing the stadium talking to his friend about the Duke "redneck" fans.

. . . bless their obnoxious hearts.

duke09hms
11-21-2014, 08:49 AM
To me, last night appeared to be the perfect storm. Heartbreaking loss to VT followed by a short week of preparation to play a desperate rival team with (albeit slightly) superior talent. Duke is a decently talented team, but they rely on execution.

I went to check the recent recruiting rankings just to see how large the talent disparity is, and it's actually huge. From 2010-2014, they have a total of 33 4-star commitments, with 8 more 4-stars coming in 2015.

In that same time period, we have 5 4-star commitments, with 3 of them being redshirted, and the other 2 being our punter Will Monday and Shaun Wilson.

That is a ridiculous talent gap, and it speaks to how poorly coached UNC is that their performance has been so underwhelming when compared to their talent level. But on days where they just happen to put it together, and we doesn't come out executing well, they're gonna roll. We don't have really any margin for error when we play these talent replete teams. Unless they're just poorly coached (UVA and UNC). Actual talent gap is slightly exaggerated given some leave early for the NFL or don't redshirt.

In our division over the 2010-2014 time frame, # of 4-5 star recruits:
Miami - 47
UNC - 33
VT - 26
UVA - 20
Pitt - 11
GT - 10
Duke - 5
Cuse - 4
Wake - 3

And for comparison:
Clemson - 50+
FSU - 60+
Stanford - 36

If we can get to Stanford's level of maybe 6 4-stars every class, which should be doable, then we can be regular contenders for the ACC title.

weezie
11-21-2014, 09:13 AM
Now the hole will want to wear those incredibly ugly helmets with the cartoon foot forever. I mean those things just are heinous headwear.
Yes, I'm being petty and whiny.

wilko
11-21-2014, 09:24 AM
We Clemsoned.

They do this kind of thing once a yr (typically) and yet they endure...
So will we.


Couldn't out run not having Connette, Deaver or Brown available this yr.
Still a decent yr in spite of all that...

It seems we saved up a seasons worth of gremlins and curses and let them all out in one game..

devildeac
11-21-2014, 09:26 AM
Two games, 6 TO, 38 points gifted to VT and the cheaters. Two games, 4 TO caused, 0 points, IIRC. It'll be difficult to beat WFU, who gave Clemson a good game for about three quarters, with performances like that.

DukieInKansas
11-21-2014, 09:54 AM
I had a commitment and didn't get to a tv until 9:30 CST. Watching the game in fast forward did not lessen the pain of expecting so much and not getting the desired outcome. Made worse by running into a really nice family of Tar Heel fans as I entered church last night. Young man has the beginnings of truly obnoxious fanhood but expect he will outgrow some of it since he is only 5. (Must give the little cretin some slack. ;))

At least watching the game in fast forward prevented me from watching the hometown NFL team lose to a winless team.

I agreee, Weezie, those helmets were awful. The mirrored effect on the feet should be outlawed.

As usual, I'm disappointed for our team but not in them. They will go back to the class room and the meeting room/practice field and be ready for both finals and Wake Forest.

Let's Go, Duke!

And GTH, C, GTH! (that is never inappropriate.)

Dev11
11-21-2014, 09:59 AM
That'll be the last time I ever accept a beer from Bob Green. Everything just went crashing downhill after that.

oldnavy
11-21-2014, 10:10 AM
So disappointed in the game. Our boys just didn't bring like UNC did. I'm about over it. Now so let's take care of Wake and win a bowl game to finish strong.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-21-2014, 10:35 AM
So... hey how's our basketball team this year? We any good?

jv001
11-21-2014, 11:03 AM
I went to check the recent recruiting rankings just to see how large the talent disparity is, and it's actually huge. From 2010-2014, they have a total of 33 4-star commitments, with 8 more 4-stars coming in 2015.

In that same time period, we have 5 4-star commitments, with 3 of them being redshirted, and the other 2 being our punter Will Monday and Shaun Wilson.

That is a ridiculous talent gap, and it speaks to how poorly coached UNC is that their performance has been so underwhelming when compared to their talent level. But on days where they just happen to put it together, and we doesn't come out executing well, they're gonna roll. We don't have really any margin for error when we play these talent replete teams. Unless they're just poorly coached (UVA and UNC). Actual talent gap is slightly exaggerated given some leave early for the NFL or don't redshirt.

In our division over the 2010-2014 time frame, # of 4-5 star recruits:
Miami - 47
UNC - 33VT - 26
UVA - 20
Pitt - 11
GT - 10
Duke - 5
Cuse - 4
Wake - 3

And for comparison:
Clemson - 50+
FSU - 60+
Stanford - 36

If we can get to Stanford's level of maybe 6 4-stars every class, which should be doable, then we can be regular contenders for the ACC title.

Wonder how many of the Tar Heels' recruits can actually read and write? They(tarholes) mean nothing to me forever more.
About our team. I think the year's squad over achieved by playing mostly error free football. Well, up to the last 2 games. We have no room for error because of our lack of stud defensive lineman. Our QB was undersized and had way too many passes batted back in his face. I don't remember seeing that many in a long time. Outside of Crowder, we don't have a receiver that has very good hands. Way too many drops from Blakeney, Barnes and McCaffrey. Let's forget the last two games and win our last two. Oh, I hope we have a good passing QB waiting in the wings, we sure need one. GoDuke!

AustinDevil
11-21-2014, 12:06 PM
We Clemsoned.

They do this kind of thing once a yr (typically) and yet they endure...
So will we.


Couldn't out run not having Connette, Deaver or Brown available this yr.
Still a decent yr in spite of all that...

It seems we saved up a seasons worth of gremlins and curses and let them all out in one game..

Not to pick on you in particular, but in both this thread and last night's thread there is much reference to the "one game" aspect. This team has badly underperformed for nearly all of the last four games. I wish we could have the Chik-Fil-A Boone back. His regression in every capacity this season is stunning.

AustinDevil
11-21-2014, 12:16 PM
I went to check the recent recruiting rankings just to see how large the talent disparity is, and it's actually huge. From 2010-2014, they have a total of 33 4-star commitments, with 8 more 4-stars coming in 2015.

In that same time period, we have 5 4-star commitments, with 3 of them being redshirted, and the other 2 being our punter Will Monday and Shaun Wilson.

That is a ridiculous talent gap, and it speaks to how poorly coached UNC is that their performance has been so underwhelming when compared to their talent level. But on days where they just happen to put it together, and we doesn't come out executing well, they're gonna roll. We don't have really any margin for error when we play these talent replete teams. Unless they're just poorly coached (UVA and UNC). Actual talent gap is slightly exaggerated given some leave early for the NFL or don't redshirt.

In our division over the 2010-2014 time frame, # of 4-5 star recruits:
Miami - 47
UNC - 33
VT - 26
UVA - 20
Pitt - 11
GT - 10
Duke - 5
Cuse - 4
Wake - 3

And for comparison:
Clemson - 50+
FSU - 60+
Stanford - 36

If we can get to Stanford's level of maybe 6 4-stars every class, which should be doable, then we can be regular contenders for the ACC title.

Thanks for putting in that research, and there is definitely a gap. One caveat tho--as with this year's preseason team rankings where Carolina gets voted in due to their name, recruits also have a tendency to get up-starred when they commit to certain schools. We've seen this in basketball as well, for Duke and others. It's hard to quantify, and you'd need to control for players who are also up-rated due to on-field results, but it's not debatable that the UNC football class of, say, 2011 would have been overrated to some extent, and Duke's class underrated to some extent.

By the way, I have time to type this because I'm on my long flight back to Texas today, so yes I'm in a bit of a bad mood.

arnie
11-21-2014, 12:18 PM
Not to pick on you in particular, but in both this thread and last night's thread there is much reference to the "one game" aspect. This team has badly underperformed for nearly all of the last four games. I wish we could have the Chik-Fil-A Boone back. His regression in every capacity this season is stunning.

Steve Logan on radio this morning analyzed Boone' s performance this way: his throws to his primary receiver are crisp and on target; however when he has to look off and throw somewhere else his throws are terrible. He also said as a 5th year senior its not gonna get better, Logan can be full if himself, but his analysis is usually right on. He doesn't think Scottie can fix this.

Troublemaker
11-21-2014, 12:24 PM
I'm afraid such a spectacular failure on the biggest of stages will set our program back years. "Same old Duke football" will be the standard refrain among the casual fans that stopped by Wally Wade tonight, and it will only take even more for them to give us a second chance.


Doesn't get much bigger for us. Home game, sell out, awesome atmosphere, national TV, hated rival. We're talking about the casual fan and what they are taking away from going to a sellout crowd against our rival. Or the alumni who's heard all this talk about Duke Football rising, so they turn on ESPN to tune into national TV for a colossal embarrassment. "Same old Duke football" will be their thought.

You and I will continue following Duke football through thick and thin, but we need the casual fan to come aboard if we want to take the next step.

I think you are over-estimating the impact of getting more fans out. It'd be nice, but I think the winning seasons are what will drive improvement. Because of the winning (which unfortunately didn't happen last night), Cut will continue to make progress in recruiting and thus the program will continue to make progress even if attendance and support remain at current levels (which I don't think they will anyway.)

SoCalDukeFan
11-21-2014, 12:38 PM
Just wanted to highlight one issue that did NOT run smoothly at all. In fact it made hundreds of students furious and what happened was far worse than described in this article.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/11/21/student-line-turns-chaotic-wallace-wade-reaches-capacity

One key thing the article didn't mention that the student gate was not even opened until 6:50 PM, which was absolutely terrible planning for the number of students. There were thousands of students in the DevilsGate area unable to get in. Once they opened the gate, they only opened one line at a time, sometimes two, causing a ridiculously slow pace. There were no line monitors so students that just arrived ended up at the front of the line and eventually the thousands of students converged downhill in a extremely dangerous and pushy crowd. Many students spent about half an hour in that crowd squeezed on all sides with no room to move. I'm a decently strong guy, and I had difficulty breathing and my back hurt afterwards. Other students were not so lucky; some got seriously injured and I saw several more crying. There were a few yellow-jacket staff members standing around with no idea what to do.

when you are forced to schedule nonsense like Thursday night football.

For a zillion reasons college football should be played in Saturdays. Duke should pressure the ACC to get out of or not renew the contract with ESPN that forces occasional weeknight games upon them.

We go to USC games and at their Thursday game I noticed that many regulars were not there. Friend who sits next to me had an arbitration and did not arrive until the 2nd half. Cal actually moved their game almost 50 miles off campus to avoid conflict with campus parking and activities.

The ADs and Presidents need to more concerned about the loyal fans who attend these games and less about the TV dollar.

SoCal

SoCalDukeFan
11-21-2014, 12:44 PM
Well, that was disappointing.

Frankly, I think we've seen Duke over-achieve by playing some nearly error-free games. When we do make mistakes, we don't have the overall talent to beat a number of teams. Need to continue to upgrade our overall talent, more speed overall, more size at positions like receivers and running back.

By "star-gazing" at the recruiting results, it looks like the 2015 class will be one of our best, and the 2016 class is off to an even better start. Coach Cut has achieved a lot, but he's not done yet.

I thought for some time that Coach Cut's plan was:

1. Recruit Duke student-athlete football players whose skills were undervalued by the "experts."

2. Play hard, tough, smart football.

3. Improve Duke's football profile.

4. Use the better profile to recruit Duke student-athletes were are better football players than what was possible before.

I think he is on track. Continued improvement will come from continued recruiting upgrades and attention to hard, tough, smart football. INMO, to get to the top rung Duke will need a top flight QB and a season without major injuries. It can be done.


SoCal

AustinDevil
11-21-2014, 12:57 PM
Steve Logan on radio this morning analyzed Boone' s performance this way: his throws to his primary receiver are crisp and on target; however when he has to look off and throw somewhere else his throws are terrible. He also said as a 5th year senior its not gonna get better, Logan can be full if himself, but his analysis is usually right on. He doesn't think Scottie can fix this.

Definitely some truth to that. He's also very accurate with screen passes where there's no risk of the ball being batted down, but much less accurate at about the same distances when he throws horizontally. At least some of it is mental, and should be fixable, imho.

uh_no
11-21-2014, 01:01 PM
Definitely some truth to that. He's also very accurate with screen passes where there's no risk of the ball being batted down, but much less accurate at about the same distances when he throws horizontally. At least some of it is mental, and should be fixable, imho.

Disagree. He's thrown screen passes in the dirt and screen passes to the bench many times over the years. I agree that he often fixates on primaries, but if the primary is covered he's either going to force a throw there anyway our make a poor throw elsewhere. It pains me for him since he's been a great winner since the game at army years ago...but he's not the greatest passer and imo has held the offense back in several games this year.

Hopefully he can put in some good ones to close ou the year with that bowl win.

AustinDevil
11-21-2014, 01:04 PM
I think you are over-estimating the impact of getting more fans out. It'd be nice, but I think the winning seasons are what will drive improvement. Because of the winning (which unfortunately didn't happen last night), Cut will continue to make progress in recruiting and thus the program will continue to make progress even if attendance and support remain at current levels (which I don't think they will anyway.)

You severely underestimate the impact on the person, not a fan--let's call them "Duke-curious"-- who went to last night's game and watched the Devils get embarrassed by our #1 rival. I saw plenty of them last night; not yet wearing Duke gear even, but intending to root for Duke. Those people don't care if we beat a bunch of schools they've never heard of. They are instead corfing like nobody's business today.

AustinDevil
11-21-2014, 01:07 PM
Disagree. He's thrown screen passes in the dirt and screen passes to the bench many times over the years. I agree that he often fixates on primaries, but if the primary is covered he's either going to force a throw there anyway our make a poor throw elsewhere. It pains me for him since he's been a great winner since the game at army years ago...but he's not the greatest passer and imo has held the offense back in several games this year.

Hopefully he can put in some good ones to close ou the year with that bowl win.

Fair point, and "over the years," yes. During the recent regression, however, those passes are usually fine. I think the batted passes are in his head.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-21-2014, 01:11 PM
As for the idea of this being an embarrassment on national TV which sets the program back, I don't think so. From an historical perspective, the 1959 game broadcast on national TV, (the 50-0 loss which triggered the addition of "to hell with Carolina" in one of our fight songs) is much worse. After that low point, the 1960 team came back to play well enough to get to the Cotton Bowl. Following last night's game, Coach Cutcliffe noted that Duke is still one of the few teams in the top five conferences with an 8-3 record. He emphasized that there is now a 2 game season to prepare for.

Yes, it was disappointing, very disappointing, but we need to think like winners if that's what we want to be. Mourn it and move on.

jwillfan
11-21-2014, 01:16 PM
They are instead corfing like nobody's business today.
Thanks for this - I learned something; had never heard of CORFing before and google found me this: http://www.units.miamioh.edu/psybersite/fans/bc.shtml

Bob Green
11-21-2014, 01:30 PM
It pains me for him since he's been a great winner since the game at army years ago...

What do you mean here? Duke last played at Army on September 12, 2009 when Anthony Boone was a senior in high school.

duke09hms
11-21-2014, 01:35 PM
As for the idea of this being an embarrassment on national TV which sets the program back, I don't think so. From an historical perspective, the 1959 game broadcast on national TV, (the 50-0 loss which triggered the addition of "to hell with Carolina" in one of our fight songs) is much worse. After that low point, the 1960 team came back to play well enough to get to the Cotton Bowl. Following last night's game, Coach Cutcliffe noted that Duke is still one of the few teams in the top five conferences with an 8-3 record. He emphasized that there is now a 2 game season to prepare for.

Yes, it was disappointing, very disappointing, but we need to think like winners if that's what we want to be. Mourn it and move on.

It sets the program back in terms of national respect and ability to recruit. First, the national media can now dismiss our season as a fluke - "Duke beat a lot of crap teams and got lucky against GT and Pitt." This will hurt future exposure and national rankings. "Same old Duke" they'll say.

Second, it further impedes converting casual fans to Duke football fans. Looks bad for the program if we can't even fill our tiny stadium, which leads to the first point, and can also inhibit recruiting. Generally, serious football talent wants to go to serious football programs. On the other hand, it could be a "boone" for short-term recruiting if it can show them playing time is readily available.

Ultimately, it's all about winning, and recruiting is essential for sustained winning. Can't keep counting on playing perfect games with no margin for error.

I don't think that the historical perspective of 1959 applies. Duke then was only several years removed from sustained national prominence. The larger context is so different compared to now. I badgered a bunch of Duke friends in Boston who never followed Duke football to watch the game with me. Worst decision ever. Their collected responses:

"Are you kidding me man, we're watching this? How is this different from when we were there (2005-09). I'm never watching Duke football again, and I have to get up at 4am tomorrow. Waste of time. The game isn't even close. No wonder, all our wins are super close against a terrible schedule. We're much worse than our record. Fumble fumble fumble interception, holy s--- this is exactly the SAME Duke football I remember."

Bought a round of drinks to make it up. Can't blame them. This was likely a one-time shot (at least for the near future) for a big chunk of neutral fans, and we blew it.

uh_no
11-21-2014, 01:37 PM
What do you mean here? Duke last played at Army on September 12, 2009 when Anthony Boone was a senior in high school.

Crap. I must be remembering renfree! The rest of my point stands though...guys been a great leader

Reilly
11-21-2014, 01:41 PM
... Coach Cutcliffe noted that Duke is still one of the few teams in the top five conferences with an 8-3 record. ... we need to think like winners if that's what we want to be ...

There are 128 teams playing FBS football.

We are #24 of 128 in winning percentage.

We are #19 in the country in winning percentage among the Power 5 conferences (Marshall, Colo St, NIU, Boise, and Air Force are the non P5 above us in win %).

The computers right now say that we are the 40th best team (of 128) in the country. We've played the 70th toughest schedule.

Let's pummel WFU and send the seniors out with a win. Win big. Don't run it up, but don't call off the dogs, either. Make a statement. Then, win the bowl game. That would put us at 10 wins, with a bowl win, and we'd have a decent shot at being ranked in the AP top 25 (one comes out after the bowls, right?) given we're already #19 among the power conferences in winning percentage and would be winning two more games while others slip up here or there.

Losing to Carolina stinks. To my mind, the VT loss is so much more painful, as we had it in the bag, they are not that talented offensively, and if we take care of business against WFU that VT win would've meant we brought home hardware this year in the form of an ACC Coastal Championship trophy.

If someone pre-season had asked you whether you'd take a 10-win season, you'd probably have taken it. We can still achieve that.

If someone pre-season had said "you're going to lose Kelby and Deaver for the entire year, Boone's going to throw for 40-some percent completion rates in critical November games, would you take a 10-win season given those things will happen?" Of course we would have.

Stats cited above from:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2014-standings.html

wilko
11-21-2014, 01:46 PM
Not to pick on you in particular, but in both this thread and last night's thread there is much reference to the "one game" aspect. This team has badly underperformed for nearly all of the last four games. I wish we could have the Chik-Fil-A Boone back. His regression in every capacity this season is stunning.

I don't take offense... No worries.
And you are right THAT Boone was awesome. Maybe that game still haunts him - I dont pretend to know....

Connette took A LOT of situational pressure off of Boone and with Deaver out that's two less weapons to work with.... Maybe those guys helped mask more issues than we thought and that that Boone is the same Boone we've always had.... its possible..

I'm disappointed too. But here we are playing meaningful games and COMPETING in Football.
That was the goal right? To get better and be in the mix instead of on the sidelines?... well we have.
We just aren't at the top of the mountain yet. No Shame.

And if I am being honest... I was getting burned out on all the football playoff talk... the national scene, on the conference bowl scene, and where Duke lands in within both of those ... All this football speculabation was getting monotonous. Just play the games the rest will take care of itself..

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-21-2014, 01:46 PM
When is the last time Duke football got trounced by a team we generally thought we were better than?

Serious question.

cspan37421
11-21-2014, 01:52 PM
There's an awful lot of talk here about a 10-win season for an 8-win team that hasn't played well at all lately. Don't count your chickens yet, friends.

I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."

Hate to tell you this, but that's on coaching, one way or another. You can't let your team think that.

duke09hms
11-21-2014, 01:56 PM
I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."



No way, that HAS to be taken out of context or misquoted. Unbelievable if that quote is true. Doubly unbelievable that Shaq would say it to a reporter. Just shows that these are still kids. 1 winning season, and they start to take it for granted.

Tripping William
11-21-2014, 01:58 PM
There's an awful lot of talk here about a 10-win season for an 8-win team that hasn't played well at all lately. Don't count your chickens yet, friends.

I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."

Hate to tell you this, but that's on coaching, one way or another. You can't let your team think that.

I should know with more precision tomorrow (after I go to their game with VPISU) the current level of abysmal that is Demon Deacon football but, after what I saw from Duke last night, you are absolutely correct that 10 wins is not at all a given. And, to me, the bolded part is especially true. I was stunned to read that quote.

Reilly
11-21-2014, 01:58 PM
... I badgered a bunch of Duke friends in Boston who never followed Duke football to watch the game with me. Worst decision ever. Their collected responses: ...

I'm sorry to hear your friends (my fellow Duke alums) are that callow. I understand if they don't have the time to closely follow the Duke football story and Coach Cut (and maybe they're just not that into sports anyway, which is certainly OK).

My friends from Duke are generally sports fans. We've reached an age where we're coming into the height of our professional lives. And my friends are really, really accomplished -- I'm amazed at what they do, the organizations they run or work for, what they are responsible for. This recent rise of Duke football and Cut has been tremendously fun to follow and learn from -- we discuss it in terms of its leadership, life, and feel good lessons (in addition to football strategizing). It's just been tremendously fun, gratifying, and interesting to watch it develop. I'm sorry your friends are missing out on it. I'm sure I miss out on a lot of neat stories that impart cool lessons, too, due to the time I spend following Duke football.

Maybe put together a little email for your friends with some links.

Link to this story:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-11-15/blair-holliday-duke-accident-jamison-crowder-cutcliffe-bowl-eligible-unc

Link to the highlights of the 2012 and 2013 Duke/UNC games (both available on goduke.com).

Link to any Cut press conference and be prepared to be entertained, and to be impressed, and to feel his genuineness and intellect and care for his fellow man.

Then, tell 'em you hope the round of drinks makes up for their bad experience, but there is some good surrounding Duke football -- at least that's what you read on the internet.

jv001
11-21-2014, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=duke09hms;758138]No way, that HAS to be taken out of context or misquoted. Unbelievable if that quote is true. Doubly unbelievable that Shaq would say it to a reporter. Just shows that these are still kids. 1 winning season, I don't know if it was a back up QB or asst. coach that Cut threw out of the way on the sidelines. But he sure was upset. GoDuke!

duke09hms
11-21-2014, 02:07 PM
I'm sorry to hear your friends (my fellow Duke alums) are that callow. I understand if they don't have the time to closely follow the Duke football story and Coach Cut (and maybe they're just not that into sports anyway, which is certainly OK).

My friends from Duke are generally sports fans. We've reached an age where we're coming into the height of our professional lives. And my friends are really, really accomplished -- I'm amazed at what they do, the organizations they run or work for, what they are responsible for. This recent rise of Duke football and Cut has been tremendously fun to follow and learn from -- we discuss it in terms of its leadership, life, and feel good lessons (in addition to football strategizing). It's just been tremendously fun, gratifying, and interesting to watch it develop. I'm sorry your friends are missing out on it. I'm sure I miss out on a lot of neat stories that impart cool lessons, too, due to the time I spend following Duke football.

Maybe put together a little email for your friends with some links.

Link to this story:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-11-15/blair-holliday-duke-accident-jamison-crowder-cutcliffe-bowl-eligible-unc

Link to the highlights of the 2012 and 2013 Duke/UNC games (both available on goduke.com).

Link to any Cut press conference and be prepared to be entertained, and to be impressed, and to feel his genuineness and intellect and care for his fellow man.

Then, tell 'em you hope the round of drinks makes up for their bad experience, but there is some good surrounding Duke football -- at least that's what you read on the internet.

To be fair, some of their response is probably a defense mechanism after them getting a bit hyped leading up to the game. And as medical residents, they made precious time for this game. But I believe their response resonates among most of the casual Duke fans who tuned in last night. It's not even so much that we lost, but that it was a noncompetitive blow-out loss to our #1 rival where we made numerous Roof-era mistakes. If it was an entertaining back-and-forth loss, that would have been fine.

I don't think how they feel is unreasonable at all. They're sports fans, avid Duke bball fans, and Duke football has always been a joke to them. Just disappointing that we blew a great opportunity to engage a largely indifferent alumni base.

paris95
11-21-2014, 02:10 PM
It sets the program back in terms of national respect and ability to recruit. First, the national media can now dismiss our season as a fluke - "Duke beat a lot of crap teams and got lucky against GT and Pitt." This will hurt future exposure and national rankings. "Same old Duke" they'll say.

Second, it further impedes converting casual fans to Duke football fans. Looks bad for the program if we can't even fill our tiny stadium, which leads to the first point, and can also inhibit recruiting. Generally, serious football talent wants to go to serious football programs. On the other hand, it could be a "boone" for short-term recruiting if it can show them playing time is readily available.

Ultimately, it's all about winning, and recruiting is essential for sustained winning. Can't keep counting on playing perfect games with no margin for error.

I don't think that the historical perspective of 1959 applies. Duke then was only several years removed from sustained national prominence. The larger context is so different compared to now. I badgered a bunch of Duke friends in Boston who never followed Duke football to watch the game with me. Worst decision ever. Their collected responses:

"Are you kidding me man, we're watching this? How is this different from when we were there (2005-09). I'm never watching Duke football again, and I have to get up at 4am tomorrow. Waste of time. The game isn't even close. No wonder, all our wins are super close against a terrible schedule. We're much worse than our record. Fumble fumble fumble interception, holy s--- this is exactly the SAME Duke football I remember."

Bought a round of drinks to make it up. Can't blame them. This was likely a one-time shot (at least for the near future) for a big chunk of neutral fans, and we blew it.

Sadly, there is a lot of truth to this point. We had a chance to convert some non-fans to be at least casual fans, and absolutely blew it. It will be hard to get people back on the bandwagon again, at least for a while. I've watched or listened to dozens of games in the last ten years, and I even found my self thinking "that will be the last time I really get my hopes up and invite non-fan friends over to watch a Duke FB game." I will go back to watching alone in the back room of my house for a while (that way, my kids won't hear me yelling things that they don't need to hear their dad say). Maybe this collective letdown was inevitable given the realities of where we are on the trajectory. Obviously, we weren't as good as our 8-1 record indicated. The problem is the buildup and then the letdown, and that the non-fan and casual fans just can't handle that. The prefer the steady domination of the hoops team. If we had lost to GT and UVa early, but then won out, the excitement level would be much higher even though we'd have the same record, and that was the scenario that played out last year. That's not our reality though this year, but the reality is that we can still end up 10-3 despite losing our best defensive player and a key offensive play for the entire season. In years' past, those losses would have meant a 4-8 campaign. Maybe it's like the old saying that it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all, even though loving and losing requires the actual pain of losing. Certainly the mountain of losses and disappointments over the years are what made last season so sweet! You can't tell me that GaTech fans are as elated to be in the ACCCG this year as we were last year.

That said, the momentum will come back. By the fact that we are on this message board, all of us will be back on the bandwagon by next weekend and pulling hard for a bowl win after that. Cut has the program on the right trajectory and if we keep putting up 8-10 wins a year against the better schedule that is coming, the respect and casual fans will come. It just won't be here this year to the level we'd all hoped.

Troublemaker
11-21-2014, 02:11 PM
It sets the program back in terms of national respect and ability to recruit. First, the national media can now dismiss our season as a fluke - "Duke beat a lot of crap teams and got lucky against GT and Pitt." This will hurt future exposure and national rankings. "Same old Duke" they'll say.

Second, it further impedes converting casual fans to Duke football fans. Looks bad for the program if we can't even fill our tiny stadium, which leads to the first point, and can also inhibit recruiting. Generally, serious football talent wants to go to serious football programs. On the other hand, it could be a "boone" for short-term recruiting if it can show them playing time is readily available.

Ultimately, it's all about winning, and recruiting is essential for sustained winning. Can't keep counting on playing perfect games with no margin for error.

I don't think that the historical perspective of 1959 applies. Duke then was only several years removed from sustained national prominence. The larger context is so different compared to now. I badgered a bunch of Duke friends in Boston who never followed Duke football to watch the game with me. Worst decision ever. Their collected responses:

"Are you kidding me man, we're watching this? How is this different from when we were there (2005-09). I'm never watching Duke football again, and I have to get up at 4am tomorrow. Waste of time. The game isn't even close. No wonder, all our wins are super close against a terrible schedule. We're much worse than our record. Fumble fumble fumble interception, holy s--- this is exactly the SAME Duke football I remember."

Bought a round of drinks to make it up. Can't blame them. This was likely a one-time shot (at least for the near future) for a big chunk of neutral fans, and we blew it.

I see where you're coming from now.

I think the best (or most likely) way for Duke football to suddenly attract a bunch of bandwagon fans is for Cut to randomly land a great QB in recruiting at some point. He does have those very attractive Manning connections. And it may have to be a 4-star who ends up playing like a 5-star. You put a great QB behind center, and the bandwagon fans (of which I have to count myself as being) will come out in droves.

Barring that, I think the gradual improvement and gradual buildup of fans will continue.

Papa John
11-21-2014, 02:15 PM
I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."

Hate to tell you this, but that's on coaching, one way or another. You can't let your team think that.

That is indeed a troubling statement... But I disagree that the blame for such an attitude should be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. You can preach until you're blue in the face to your kids the fact that to be a championship team you must embrace the values of a championship team: intense focus, dogged work ethic, attention to detail, steady business-like demeanor, etc. Until they embody these values, there's really not much you can do though... Last season, these guys were hungry because they remembered the dark pit from which they had crawled... This season, they simply lost that edge down the stretch... They became complacent, and it bit them in the rear, big time... I'm sure they'll learn a good lesson from this, and hopefully we'll see that manifest itself in the coming years as a team that doesn't lose it's focus down the stretch...

SoCalDukeFan
11-21-2014, 03:28 PM
There's an awful lot of talk here about a 10-win season for an 8-win team that hasn't played well at all lately. Don't count your chickens yet, friends.

I was most troubled by this S. Powell quote from the J. Sumner article: "We just didn’t expect them to play that hard. We thought it would be an easier game."

Hate to tell you this, but that's on coaching, one way or another. You can't let your team think that.

These are still college players.

I am sure that they saw film of UNC, and UNC was not playing hard. Missing tackles, etc. It was the story of their season.

Last night UNC decided to play tough. Yes Duke should have been ready for that. Yes the Duke should have had the players ready for that.
But soemtimes what the coaches say just not sink in.

SoCal

OldPhiKap
11-21-2014, 04:05 PM
Not being ready because you thought the other team would not fight as hard is a maturity and experience issue more than anything. As someone said upthread, the coaches can preach until they are blue in the face -- the kids have to take it to heart.

Duke basketball knows it's going to get everyone's best shot. Because you're a top dog. We may win or lose, but we usually never have a lack of intensity.

Our football team needs to learn that. We do not have a lot of experience at being favored.



Having said all of that -- I would have thought this team did know better. It's @#$@# Carolina, playing for a bowl bid. Not sure what else you would expect.


And yes -- Wake will come to fight too in case the memo hasn't gone out yet.

devildeac
11-21-2014, 06:36 PM
For those thinking the quote for our players thinking c*rolina wouldn't play that hard might have been taken out of context or that Powell was misquoted, think again. Laura Keeley also included it in her article today in the Raleigh N&O. So, unless we don't trust her and Jim Sumner, it certainly sounds real and still remains disturbing to me why in the #$%& we would assume/act/prepare/play in such a manner against our hated rival who is playing for bowl eligibility. SMH.

Troublemaker
11-21-2014, 07:42 PM
For those thinking the quote for our players thinking c*rolina wouldn't play that hard might have been taken out of context or that Powell was misquoted, think again. Laura Keeley also included it in her article today in the Raleigh N&O. So, unless we don't trust her and Jim Sumner, it certainly sounds real and still remains disturbing to me why in the #$%& we would assume/act/prepare/play in such a manner against our hated rival who is playing for bowl eligibility. SMH.

Powell may just be making an excuse.

From the standpoint of a player competing in the game, it may be more palatable to think that the loss was the result of overlooking the opponent rather than Duke players preparing and playing their best and still getting their butts kicked.

From the standpoint of us fans, we just want our guys to try their best all the time and not overlook opponents, so that excuse doesn't sit well with us.

bjornolf
11-22-2014, 01:17 PM
I went to check the recent recruiting rankings just to see how large the talent disparity is, and it's actually huge. From 2010-2014, they have a total of 33 4-star commitments, with 8 more 4-stars coming in 2015.

In that same time period, we have 5 4-star commitments, with 3 of them being redshirted, and the other 2 being our punter Will Monday and Shaun Wilson.

That is a ridiculous talent gap, and it speaks to how poorly coached UNC is that their performance has been so underwhelming when compared to their talent level. But on days where they just happen to put it together, and we doesn't come out executing well, they're gonna roll. We don't have really any margin for error when we play these talent replete teams. Unless they're just poorly coached (UVA and UNC). Actual talent gap is slightly exaggerated given some leave early for the NFL or don't redshirt.

In our division over the 2010-2014 time frame, # of 4-5 star recruits:
Miami - 47
UNC - 33
VT - 26
UVA - 20
Pitt - 11
GT - 10
Duke - 5
Cuse - 4
Wake - 3

And for comparison:
Clemson - 50+
FSU - 60+
Stanford - 36

If we can get to Stanford's level of maybe 6 4-stars every class, which should be doable, then we can be regular contenders for the ACC title.

Thanks. I was going by what I saw on the field, though, not by the teams on paper. So, yea, I agree that on paper they are far more gifted, but I didn't see that HUGE a disparity on the field. I thought our lack of execution hurt us far more, and that I blame on the short week.

devildeac
11-22-2014, 01:44 PM
Thanks. I was going by what I saw on the field, though, not by the teams on paper. So, yea, I agree that on paper they are far more gifted, but I didn't see that HUGE a disparity on the field. I thought our lack of execution hurt us far more, and that I blame on the short week.

Sorry, Joe but the cheaters had a short week, too, so I can't buy that one. No injuries except Saxton and the other guys out all year that we knew already. I don't have an explanation but I don't think it can be the short week.

-jk
11-22-2014, 02:03 PM
Sorry, Joe but the cheaters had a short week, too, so I can't buy that one. No injuries except Saxton and the other guys out all year that we knew already. I don't have an explanation but I don't think it can be the short week.

I think unc had a bye last week.

-jk

Bob Green
11-22-2014, 02:26 PM
I think unc had a bye last week.

-jk

Nope, they beat Pittsburgh.

jv001
11-22-2014, 02:29 PM
Nope, they beat Pittsburgh.

VT had a bye week right before our loss(give away) to them. GoDuke!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-22-2014, 04:14 PM
It will be interesting to see what sort of game UNC can string together next Saturday. It's a home game for Carolina; NC State has nothing to lose.

jv001
11-22-2014, 04:46 PM
I hope our offense can at least keep the defense off the field better than they have in the last two games. It starts with the QB hitting his receivers on the numbers. GoDuke!

bjornolf
11-22-2014, 09:48 PM
Sorry, Joe but the cheaters had a short week, too, so I can't buy that one. No injuries except Saxton and the other guys out all year that we knew already. I don't have an explanation but I don't think it can be the short week.

Yes, they did, but if you read my original post, you would see my reasoning. Talent wins over skill in a short week situation. As a guy who played back in the day, I can tell you how much a short week messes with your preparation. A superior coached and skilled team with less talent is at a HUGE disadvantage in a short week, because they need the time to prepare. Duke made all sorts of execution errors that they don't usually make. The offensive line was very out of sync. They can't afford to beat themselves, and they usually don't. UNC was riding a high from their win, while Duke had suffered a crushing and division losing loss. It takes time for these kids to get over that. A short week helps positive momentum carry over, but also makes it harder to get over a bad loss in time. I've seen it... heck, I've lived through it. In my humble opinion, the short week hurt Duke FAR more than Carolina.

orrnot
11-22-2014, 10:44 PM
"We just didn’t expect them to play that hard"

He shouldn't have thought it, and he shouldn't have said it. The team should not have believed it. That said, anyone who has watched or read about Carolina football this season should concur. I think most honest Carolina fans would say they were pleasantly surprised by their team's intensity, as well as by its talent and execution. They had a very good night, cementing their upward trajectory of late. Congratulations to them on peaking at the right time for a well-deserved victory.

Conversely, Duke showed a reverse trajectory recently, culminating in poor execution and a mindset that was more confused than intense. For two years prior the roles have been opposite in these games. Duke has brought focus and desire to the contests that Carolina couldn't match. I think Carolina's talent ceiling will always be higher than Duke's, and thus wins will be challenging to come by. What we've learned from Coach Cutcliffe is that they're not impossible to achieve.

I look forward to getting that bell back.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-22-2014, 11:47 PM
The game was disappointing. The players' interviews, especially after the game, seem to have disappointed as well. The whole thing is a reminder that the players and coaches are human beings, subject to making mistakes, losing focus and disappointing themselves and others. It's hard to say when or how the illnesses of close family members influence player behavior, performance or comments.... or even what else is going on in the background that fans have no reason to know about.

There's another regular season game yet to play and there's reason be to optimistic about the outcome.....a much better situation than was the case just a few short years ago. My point is not to chastise anyone. It's my intention to mourn briefly and move on.

Devilwin
11-23-2014, 07:36 AM
Now that it's over, and I have had time to think it over, I regret blaming Cut so much, because there is no doubt he has brought respect back to the program.
Losing to UNC was bad, especially when we just laid down like that. Maybe a hangover from the Va Tech game, which we certainly should have won.
( Wake just beat them in OT)
We need to win this coming weekend to bolster confidence for the bowl game, if for no other reason.
I have been a Duke fan since I was a kid, and remember when Duke was great (I am 62 now), and saw the decline of the program. So I have seen it all. Never once have I wavered in the support of the team, enduring all those miserable years.
In that vein, I have seen us rise again, and I think it's the anticipation that gets me bent when we play like we did the last couple of games.
I remember the great back Jay Calabrese rumbling through opposing defenses, and the fantastic combo of Hart to Chesson, the running of Steve Jones, the passing of Ben Bennett to Chris Castor. It always seemed back then we were just one or two players short of greatness.
If we can get bigger on the D line it would help, and teach our D backs that there are no eyes in the back of our heads, and turn to look for the ball sometimes, we can get better.