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luburch
11-18-2014, 12:54 PM
This could be interesting...

@richarddeitsch: ESPN's @30for30 just announced there will be an upcoming doc titled "I Hate Christian Laettner." Will premiere next March.

luburch
11-18-2014, 12:55 PM
And the press release:

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/11/new-30-for-30-documentary-i-hate-christian-laettner-to-premiere-in-2015/

hurleyfor3
11-18-2014, 01:00 PM
And the press release:

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/11/new-30-for-30-documentary-i-hate-christian-laettner-to-premiere-in-2015/

"He’s the only player to start in four consecutive Final Fours...". No, he wasn't. [Edit: Actually he was; see below] Quoting the press release, not luburch.

Mike Corey
11-18-2014, 01:03 PM
Great title, ESPN.

http://www.betcheslovethis.com/files/uploads/images/bluthroll.gif

El_Diablo
11-18-2014, 01:27 PM
"He’s the only player to start in four consecutive Final Fours...". No, he wasn't. Quoting the press release, not luburch.

Out of curiosity, who else has?

El_Diablo
11-18-2014, 01:36 PM
No one. Greg Koubek was the first person to play in four Final Fours, an achievement shared by Laettner. The starting five in 1989 was Abdelnaby/Ferry/Brickey/Snyder/Henderson.

I think the only player who could have started in four FFs -- that is, he started his first three years and his team was in the NCAAs for his senior year -- was Bobby Hurley.

No, Laettner started against Seton Hall.

hurleyfor3
11-18-2014, 01:41 PM
No, Laettner started against Seton Hall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_5YcJfWkpg

Starters were Brickey/Ferry/Laettner/Henderson/Snyder. Somehow I remember people drawing the distinction between Hurley in 1993 and Laettner, but there's Christian taking the opening tap. I blame Billy Packer.

davekay1971
11-18-2014, 02:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_5YcJfWkpg

Starters were Brickey/Ferry/Laettner/Henderson/Snyder. Somehow I remember people drawing the distinction between Hurley in 1993 and Laettner, but there's Christian taking the opening tap. I blame Billy Packer.

Yep, Laettner was starting for the Seton Hall game. By the time of the Georgetown game in the regional finals, Laettner had earned the starter's nod.

Hurley and G Hill were four year starters, but the 1993 2nd round exit prevented them from being four year Final Four starters. Koubek played in four Final Fours, but was not a starter in all of them. The UCLA guys, of course, did not play during their Freshman years, otherwise guys like Abdul Jabbar would probably have accomplished this achievement.

Goes to show how special the 1986-1994 run was for Duke...going to 7 FFs in 9 years is just impossible to do in the modern game.

vick
11-18-2014, 02:29 PM
Great title, ESPN.

The man's twitter description today is

"The Shot
to Kentucky's Heart"

and the description of the documentary itself says it has "extensive access to Laettner." I'm fairly confident he was smiling when he was told the title.

flyingdutchdevil
11-18-2014, 02:51 PM
1) Laettner was a great college player? True 2) Laettner loves Duke? True. 3) Laettner epitomized Duke? True. 4) Duke fans love Laettner? True. 5) Other college fan bases, which is at least 50x bigger than Duke fan bases, hate Laettner? True.

Laettner is hated for so many reasons: he was cocky, he played with a program that just wins (what do the Cowboys, Yankees, and Notre Dame have in common?), he played better in the spotlight, he was clutch, he took down a potential dynasty in UNLV (with help), he took down a wannabe dynasty (Fab Five), he is shown at least 32 times a year with "The Shot" in the month of March, and he's white.

Mal
11-18-2014, 03:02 PM
he is shown at least 32 times a year...

Coincidence or intentional? I like it either way.

Mike Corey
11-18-2014, 03:02 PM
No doubt, Laettner loves it. No doubt it plays into Laettner's ongoing and hilarious and earned trolling of Kentucky and others.

But this isn't exactly new territory.

Tell us something new about Laettner; that he's hated is old hat. That he's more than just a proud icon is, too.

Of course, I'm still going to watch every second of the episode. So "Shut up, Corey" seems appropriate.

flyingdutchdevil
11-18-2014, 03:06 PM
No doubt, Laettner loves it. No doubt it plays into Laettner's ongoing and hilarious and earned trolling of Kentucky and others.

But this isn't exactly new territory.

Tell us something new about Laettner; that he's hated is old hat. That he's more than just a proud icon is, too.

Of course, I'm still going to watch every second of the episode. So "Shut up, Corey" seems appropriate.

I think we know that Laettner is hated. But the expect to which he is hated is debatable. Do diehard college bball fans hate him, or do they hate that Laettner beat their team but respect his game? Do casual college bball fans hate him, or do they just hate Duke? There are many ways to skin a cat, and I hope that ESPN does a wonderful job of getting into the difficult causes of 'hate' rather than having a montage of players and coaches saying, "I hate Christian Laettner".

hurleyfor3
11-18-2014, 03:07 PM
Coincidence or intentional? I like it either way.

Fun fact: Laettner scored his uniform number the night it was retired. He had a free throw to make it Grant Hill, but missed. Source: was there.

(In case this confuses people, this was the home game *before* unc in 1992.)

Mike Corey
11-18-2014, 03:16 PM
I think we know that Laettner is hated. But the expect to which he is hated is debatable. Do diehard college bball fans hate him, or do they hate that Laettner beat their team but respect his game? Do casual college bball fans hate him, or do they just hate Duke? There are many ways to skin a cat, and I hope that ESPN does a wonderful job of getting into the difficult causes of 'hate' rather than having a montage of players and coaches saying, "I hate Christian Laettner".

Fair enough. :)

Tom B.
11-18-2014, 03:38 PM
Fun fact: Laettner scored his uniform number the night it was retired. He had a free throw to make it Grant Hill, but missed. Source: was there.

(In case this confuses people, this was the home game *before* unc in 1992.)


February 26, 1992. We beat Virginia 76-67. That was also the night that:

(1) Bobby Hurley returned to the Duke lineup after missing three weeks with a stress fracture in his foot, and

(2) Bryant Stith broke Jeff Lamp's UVa career scoring record (a record that Stith still holds). Coach K presented the game ball to Stith after the game ended.

weezie
11-18-2014, 03:52 PM
Love it already and cannot wait to see it. Enjoyed the bit about Christian being the starting five of all-time hated.

Just hope JJ doesn't get bummed out by being excluded....

hurleyfor3
11-18-2014, 04:42 PM
Love it already and cannot wait to see it. Enjoyed the bit about Christian being the starting five of all-time hated.

Just hope JJ doesn't get bummed out by being excluded....

JJ has nothing to worry about. The starting five is Laettner, Laettner again, Laettner a third time, JJ and Hurley.

Actually I'll take that backcourt for basketball in general.

weezie
11-18-2014, 04:50 PM
Maybe G. Henderson off the bench? But prob only in north carolina?

dukerev
11-18-2014, 05:13 PM
What if I told you that a multi-media conglomerate found a way to make money off of the irrational hatred of millions of people for a man they never met?

Tom B.
11-18-2014, 05:23 PM
JJ has nothing to worry about. The starting five is Laettner, Laettner again, Laettner a third time, JJ and Hurley.




If we're doing a true starting five, I think it would be Laettner, Hurley, J.J., Wojo, and Collins -- though you could make an argument for starting Ferry and bringing Collins off the bench as the sixth man.

Someone mentioned Gerald Henderson, but I think that's really just a Chapel Hill thing because of The Foul. Outside of UNC, I don't think Henderson is as universally and irrationally reviled as the others.

slower
11-18-2014, 05:29 PM
What if I told you that a multi-media conglomerate found a way to make money off of the irrational hatred of millions of people for a man they never met?

Inconceivable!!

Mal
11-18-2014, 05:43 PM
If we're doing a true starting five, I think it would be Laettner, Hurley, J.J., Wojo, and Collins -- though you could make an argument for starting Ferry and bringing Collins off the bench as the sixth man.

I think that's about right. Noticing a trend there. Not saying anything, I'm just, you know, sayin'.

I find that, all these years later, the hatred for Wojo still runs really, really deep for a lot of people between 35 and 45 years old. Always comes back to the floor slapping. Even know a few Marquette fans who had a hard time until he gave his first press conference in Milwaukee. I actually think he's no. 2 on the hated Dukies list among the people I know.

hurleyfor3
11-18-2014, 05:45 PM
I think that's about right. Noticing a trend there. Not saying anything, I'm just, you know, sayin'.

I'd put Patrick Ewing before any non-Laettner player in the frontcourt.


I find that, all these years later, the hatred for Wojo still runs really, really deep for a lot of people between 35 and 45 years old. Always comes back to the floor slapping. Even know a few Marquette fans who had a hard time until he gave his first press conference in Milwaukee. I actually think he's no. 2 on the hated Dukies list among the people I know.

Hurley did it first.

weezie
11-18-2014, 05:57 PM
I find that, all these years later, the hatred for Wojo still runs really, really deep for a lot of people between 35 and 45 years old. Always comes back to the floor slapping.

I'll bet that a significant percentage of those middle-aged folks (!!!!) wish they could actually bend over and slap any floor. :cool::D:cool:

-jk
11-18-2014, 06:06 PM
[re floor slapping]
Hurley did it first.

Uh, no... Early '80s.

-jk

subzero02
11-18-2014, 06:24 PM
1) Laettner was a great college player? True 2) Laettner loves Duke? True. 3) Laettner epitomized Duke? True. 4) Duke fans love Laettner? True. 5) Other college fan bases, which is at least 50x bigger than Duke fan bases, have Laettner? True.

Laettner is hated for so many reasons: he was cocky, he played with a program that just wins (what do the Cowboys, Yankees, and Notre Dame have in common?), he played better in the spotlight, he was clutch, he took down a potential dynasty in UNLV (with help), he took down a wannabe dynasty (Fab Five), he is shown at least 32 times a year with "The Shot" in the month of March, and he's white.

False... They don't have Laettner but whether they admit or not, they wish they did. ;-)

OldPhiKap
11-18-2014, 10:20 PM
Hurley
Paulus
JJ
Laettner
Meagher

That's a team that would rival the Detroit Pistons on the '80's for most hated. And good.

jacone21
11-18-2014, 10:25 PM
Spotted during the UK KU game:

4495

OldPhiKap
11-18-2014, 10:27 PM
Spotted during the UK KU game:

4495

Funny thing was, Hurley was wearing it.

chris13
11-18-2014, 10:56 PM
If we're doing a true starting five, I think it would be Laettner, Hurley, J.J., Wojo, and Collins -- though you could make an argument for starting Ferry and bringing Collins off the bench as the sixth man.

Someone mentioned Gerald Henderson, but I think that's really just a Chapel Hill thing because of The Foul. Outside of UNC, I don't think Henderson is as universally and irrationally reviled as the others.

I can't believe you left off Shane Battier. As a Triangle resident (and non Duke fan) since 1986, I'd put Battier above Collins and Hurley in the pantheon of disdain. Honorable mention to Dahntay Jones. Agree, though, about Henderson.

A few other random thoughts

1) I wonder if the quote actually came from one of Laettner's teammates (Cherokee Parks??). The difference to me between Laettner and every other "hated" Dukie is that Laettner actually inspired bad feelings from some of his own teammates, if legend is to be believed.

2) Danny Ferry doesn't get enough credit as a player. I feel like Laettner's exploits from 1990 to 1992 (UConn buzzer beater in '90, the '91 and '92 seasons) made people forget Ferry's greatness. Laettner had the better career, but if you looked at the 1988 and 1989 Duke rosters vs 1991 and 1992 you'd notice that Laettner had significantly better talent around him.

Edouble
11-19-2014, 03:42 AM
Hurley
Paulus
JJ
Laettner
Meagher

That's a team that would rival the Detroit Pistons on the '80's for most hated. And good.



If we're doing a true starting five, I think it would be Laettner, Hurley, J.J., Wojo, and Collins -- though you could make an argument for starting Ferry and bringing Collins off the bench as the sixth man.

Someone mentioned Gerald Henderson, but I think that's really just a Chapel Hill thing because of The Foul. Outside of UNC, I don't think Henderson is as universally and irrationally reviled as the others.

Although I hate this kind of thing, I just had to chime in.

I think you both got it wrong, but are both close. Collins doesn't make the team. He really had a fair career with strong bookends, if you will (freshman and senior years), but never withstood the heighth or longevity of Wojo hatred. Likewise, Meager hatred can not stand next to that of the true fifth starter. Paulus makes the squad, despite a mediocre career, due to his association with JJ and for sheer minutes played. He also gets some flack for being over-hyped, which makes no sense. Would opposing fans have "hated" him less if he had played better against them? Again, I really hate this kind of thing.


I can't believe you left off Shane Battier. As a Triangle resident (and non Duke fan) since 1986, I'd put Battier above Collins and Hurley in the pantheon of disdain. Honorable mention to Dahntay Jones. Agree, though, about Henderson.

To me, clearly, the team is Laettner, JJ, Paulus, Wojo, and Battier.

Yes, Battier is the fifth member of the "most hated" team.. Despite being one of the greatest defnsive players of all time, he is only remembered for one subset of his defensive prowess... drawing the charge, which for some reason makes people throw their arms up in frustrated disgust, like the defensive player has somehow exploited a loophole in the rulebook by drawing a charge.

royalblue
11-19-2014, 07:43 AM
I have always wanted to attend a UK vs Uncch game with a 32 Duke jersey on and pull for UK.

davekay1971
11-19-2014, 08:38 AM
One of the great things about enduring Laettner hate is how easy it is to get the haters fired up, and the random places where you see it happening.

I don't tweet, but I follow some political commentators that I enjoy on twitter. One is Mary Katherine Ham, a conservative with a pretty good sense of humor. I saw a few tweets from her provoking the Laettner haters this morning in reference to the upcoming 30 for 30 special. (A quick wikipedia check shows, while she went to UGa, she grew up in Durham and went to Riverside High). As a Duke fan, I try to have the same fun with it. Laettner, in college, was an awesome player, and he enjoyed playing the villain. At this point, he seems to still embrace the villain role. Since time is clearly not going to help the Laettner haters become more rational, might as well have fun with their irrationality. When KY fans accuse him of "physically assaulting" Aminu Timberlake, about all you can do is laugh. Because in their minds, the decades haven't healed Timberlake's wounds from that foot-tap. 22 years later, in KY world, the poor guy was killed dead on the spot as Laettner put the sole of his foot straight through Aminu's beating heart (which Coach K then ate before it had a chance to stop beating).

HaveFunExpectToWin
11-19-2014, 09:11 AM
I think we know that Laettner is hated. But the expect to which he is hated is debatable. Do diehard college bball fans hate him, or do they hate that Laettner beat their team but respect his game? Do casual college bball fans hate him, or do they just hate Duke? There are many ways to skin a cat, and I hope that ESPN does a wonderful job of getting into the difficult causes of 'hate' rather than having a montage of players and coaches saying, "I hate Christian Laettner".

I very nearly came to blows with a UK fan over his Laettner hate and my Laettner love. In retrospect it's hard to believe that this happened, but it did... at my friend's wedding... I was the best man.

alteran
11-19-2014, 09:29 AM
This could be interesting...

@richarddeitsch: ESPN's @30for30 just announced there will be an upcoming doc titled "I Hate Christian Laettner." Will premiere next March.

I'm waiting for the new "30 for 30: The Carolina Way."

And waiting...

And waiting...

OldPhiKap
11-19-2014, 12:36 PM
I'm waiting for the new "30 for 30: The Carolina Way."

And waiting...

And waiting...

I think that was called "The Lair's Club"

Steven43
11-19-2014, 02:44 PM
I think that's about right. Noticing a trend there. Not saying anything, I'm just, you know, sayin'.

I find that, all these years later, the hatred for Wojo still runs really, really deep for a lot of people between 35 and 45 years old. Always comes back to the floor slapping. Even know a few Marquette fans who had a hard time until he gave his first press conference in Milwaukee. I actually think he's no. 2 on the hated Dukies list among the people I know.

Not sure what is so offensive about slapping a floor. I never really understood why opposing fans would even care one way or the other.

weezie
11-19-2014, 02:47 PM
I have always wanted to attend a UK vs Uncch game with a 32 Duke jersey on and pull for UK.

Now THIS is truly a bucket list worthy wish.

DtrainBuckshot
11-19-2014, 02:51 PM
I think that was called "The Lair's Club"

or maybe "Class-less"

94duke
11-24-2014, 12:25 PM
article based on an SI interview regarding the documentary.
http://www.si.com/more-sports/2014/11/23/media-circus-christian-laettner-duke-30-for-30

83and86
11-24-2014, 12:54 PM
1) Laettner was a great college player? True 2) Laettner loves Duke? True. 3) Laettner epitomized Duke? True. 4) Duke fans love Laettner? True. 5) Other college fan bases, which is at least 50x bigger than Duke fan bases, hate Laettner? True.

Laettner is hated for so many reasons: he was cocky, he played with a program that just wins (what do the Cowboys, Yankees, and Notre Dame have in common?), he played better in the spotlight, he was clutch, he took down a potential dynasty in UNLV (with help), he took down a wannabe dynasty (Fab Five), he is shown at least 32 times a year with "The Shot" in the month of March, and he's white.

I agree with the main point. Small correction though. I am not sure that the Cowboys winning one playoff game since 1996 puts them in the pantheon of great winners like Notre Dame and the Yankees, who still make a habit of winning from time to time.

Dev11
11-24-2014, 01:04 PM
I agree with the main point. Small correction though. I am not sure that the Cowboys winning one playoff game since 1996 puts them in the pantheon of great winners like Notre Dame and the Yankees, who still make a habit of winning from time to time.

More specifically, all of those programs were winners when most of today's prominent sportswriters were coming of age, which is why we collectively continue to hear about how hated they are. Ask a sportswriter who graduated high school in 2005, and they'll tell you that the most prominent college football program is Alabama or maybe USC, and in baseball it's Boston, St. Louis, or San Francisco.

cspan37421
11-24-2014, 01:10 PM
One of the great things about enduring Laettner hate is how easy it is to get the haters fired up, and the random places where you see it happening.

I don't tweet, but I follow some political commentators that I enjoy on twitter. One is Mary Katherine Ham, a conservative with a pretty good sense of humor. I saw a few tweets from her provoking the Laettner haters this morning in reference to the upcoming 30 for 30 special. (A quick wikipedia check shows, while she went to UGa, she grew up in Durham and went to Riverside High). As a Duke fan, I try to have the same fun with it. Laettner, in college, was an awesome player, and he enjoyed playing the villain. At this point, he seems to still embrace the villain role. Since time is clearly not going to help the Laettner haters become more rational, might as well have fun with their irrationality. When KY fans accuse him of "physically assaulting" Aminu Timberlake, about all you can do is laugh. Because in their minds, the decades haven't healed Timberlake's wounds from that foot-tap. 22 years later, in KY world, the poor guy was killed dead on the spot as Laettner put the sole of his foot straight through Aminu's beating heart (which Coach K then ate before it had a chance to stop beating).

You said it. It's really a good lesson in how the mind works - in particular, long term memory - which is a story we tell ourselves again and again, which evolves with each telling. Once in awhile I'll talk to a Kentucky fan and just ask them what they remember about that incident. They remember it as being far more violent than it was. But I don't blame them for not wanting to watch the tape over and over, like we do. But still, we have watched the game enough times that we are able to offer our rejoinder: "If you think the stomp was that vicious, how do you explain the fact that TImberlake popped up smiling and clapping, knowing that Laettner had just earned himself a technical foul?"* They're dumbfounded at this in two ways. First, that Timberlake was happy afterwards - up and clapping, not writhing in pain. Second, that Laettner got a technical foul. Many of them think he "got away with it" entirely. So the story becomes more unjust with each telling.

I like the fact that Laettner is smart enough (or cocky enough) to refrain from pleading his case. Instead, with rolled eyes and a smile, he'll say, "C'mon, it was just a love tap."

* even my memory was imperfect here ... and may still be: I used to tell the story as Timberlake being happy he had baited Laettner into committing a technical foul. But IIRC I later watched it over and over and it appears that Laettner thought Timberlake undercut him on the way to the basket, when in fact it was a different KY player that did (Farmer maybe?). I also remember about the only guy defending Laettner was Bill Walton, who explained that he was on the receiving end of many such undercuttings, and that it was dangerous to do that to a big guy who are very vulnerable when they go up ... you can't undercut them without them risking their head hitting the floor from quite a height. At the least their arms would be at risk, breaking the fall.

barjwr
11-24-2014, 01:23 PM
Laettner had also had just about enough of dirty play in the lane. One or two possessions prior to the "love tap," Feldhaus shoved him in the back toward the basket stanchion, yelling at him while he did it.

hurleyfor3
03-03-2015, 11:05 AM
Trailer released:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12409704

OldPhiKap
03-03-2015, 03:05 PM
Actor/DukeParent Rob Lowe was on K's radio show last week, and apparently is a producer of this episode.

It was the good Rob Lowe, not the LyingCarolinaFan Rob Lowe.

hurleyfor3
03-03-2015, 06:30 PM
I'm Rob Lowe, I root for Duke.

And I'm Harbor-Grudges-For-20-Years Rob Lowe, I root for Kentucky.

DukieInKansas
03-03-2015, 06:30 PM
Actor/DukeParent Rob Lowe was on K's radio show last week, and apparently is a producer of this episode.

It was the good Rob Lowe, not the LyingCarolinaFan Rob Lowe.

Can't spork you but wish I could. I was getting tired of those commercials but this will make me ok with them for a while longer. :D

Can't wait to watch this episode of 30 for 30.

weezie
03-03-2015, 08:04 PM
Geez-o-Pete, have I missed spotting Rob Lowe in Cameron?! :eek:

OldPhiKap
03-03-2015, 08:12 PM
Geez-o-Pete, have I missed spotting Rob Lowe in Cameron?! :eek:

He said he has been to games, and is a big fan. His kid (daughter, maybe?) was trying to adjust from Southern Cali to a winter in Der'm.

But Lowe sounded pretty knowledgeable about hoops and said he was a huge Duke fan. He and K we're a mutual admiration society of two.

weezie
03-03-2015, 08:15 PM
He said he has been to games, and is a big fan. His kid (daughter, maybe?) was trying to adjust from Southern Cali to a winter in Der'm.

But Lowe sounded pretty knowledgeable about hoops and said he was a huge Duke fan. He and K we're a mutual admiration society of two.

Well, phooey. Neither of them thought to let poor weezie know when R. Lowe was in the building. :(

Lowe has a son at Duke. His oldest son is, I think, a sophomore.

ricks68
03-03-2015, 10:39 PM
Actor/DukeParent Rob Lowe was on K's radio show last week, and apparently is a producer of this episode.

It was the good Rob Lowe, not the LyingCarolinaFan Rob Lowe.

Oh, how I wish I could spork you for this one!:D:D I will just have to wait until I can get you again.

ricks

duke79
03-04-2015, 10:07 AM
Rob Lowe is listed as the narrator for this documentary. Should be fun and informative to watch.

subzero02
03-04-2015, 11:21 AM
1) Laettner was a great college player? True 2) Laettner loves Duke? True. 3) Laettner epitomized Duke? True. 4) Duke fans love Laettner? True. 5) Other college fan bases, which is at least 50x bigger than Duke fan bases, hate Laettner? True.

Laettner is hated for so many reasons: he was cocky, he played with a program that just wins (what do the Cowboys, Yankees, and Notre Dame have in common?), he played better in the spotlight, he was clutch, he took down a potential dynasty in UNLV (with help), he took down a wannabe dynasty (Fab Five), he is shown at least 32 times a year with "The Shot" in the month of March, and he's white.

Great post. I don't think the animosity many felt towards Laettner can be overstated. Danny Ferry probably got the Duke hate ball rolling on a national level but Laettner put it into orbit. I was 12 years old when he hit the shot and I remember the disdain for Laettner expressed by most of the men at my all black church and the barber shop I went to each Saturday morning. It was palpable. Everytime I see the shot I remember what my pastor's adult son said right afterwards..."I wanted to throwup"

grossbus
03-04-2015, 11:51 AM
i am eager to watch and will laugh at the haters :o

arnie
03-04-2015, 02:23 PM
Great post. I don't think the animosity many felt towards Laettner can be overstated. Danny Ferry probably got the Duke hate ball rolling on a national level but Laettner put it into orbit. I was 12 years old when he hit the shot and I remember the disdain for Laettner expressed by most of the men at my all black church and the barber shop I went to each Saturday morning. It was palpable. Everytime I see the shot I remember what my pastor's adult son said right afterwards..."I wanted to throwup"

Listened to XM College Basketball this morning. This show is always dominated by KY fans and their greatest fear (repeated by several) is Duke ruining their perfect season. It'll sad if Wisconsin or UVA end their season, but if its Duke, many lives will be ruined.

HaveFunExpectToWin
03-04-2015, 04:25 PM
Listened to XM College Basketball this morning. This show is always dominated by KY fans and their greatest fear (repeated by several) is Duke ruining their perfect season. It'll sad if Wisconsin or UVA end their season, but if its Duke, many lives will be ruined.

I hadn't considered this. This would be on the level of "your tears are delicious" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g) trauma for an entire fanhood.

Billy Dat
03-04-2015, 04:51 PM
Listened to XM College Basketball this morning. This show is always dominated by KY fans and their greatest fear (repeated by several) is Duke ruining their perfect season. It'll sad if Wisconsin or UVA end their season, but if its Duke, many lives will be ruined.

I would happily risk the chance of them beating us or even blowing us out for the chance to ruin their undefeated season.

Tripping William
03-04-2015, 04:53 PM
I would happily risk the chance of them beating us or even blowing us out for the chance to ruin their undefeated season.

I second this. It's why I have been referring to them as UKLV every chance I get.

hurleyfor3
03-04-2015, 04:55 PM
I would happily risk the chance of them beating us or even blowing us out for the chance to ruin their undefeated season.

And they'll still hate Laettner. There's no downside from a Duke standpoint.

NSDukeFan
03-04-2015, 05:25 PM
I would happily risk the chance of them beating us or even blowing us out for the chance to ruin their undefeated season.

The thought of them being undefeated terrifies me. If I knew Duke would win, that would be fantastic, but I would not appreciate them beating Duke to cap an undefeated season. That would be disgusting.

hurleyfor3
03-15-2015, 07:42 PM
bump, here it comes.

Newton_14
03-15-2015, 08:42 PM
This is so cool, I am going to put it in both Laettner threads. Watching ESPN Bracketology just now, and right before going to break Reece Davis was previewing the "I Hate Christian Laettner" 30 for 30 and Reece said something like 'Why people Hate Christian Laettner" and Bilas immediately responded with "I hate people that hate Christian Laettner". Awesome! Rock on Bilas! Defend a brother in arms!!

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 09:26 PM
LMAO

Brian Davis just owned Jalen Rose re: the Uncle Tom stuff.

Native
03-15-2015, 09:29 PM
BRIAN DAVIS WITH THE SMACKDOWN

Davis is that dude. That was awesome.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 09:32 PM
So people hated Laettner because he was chippy? A large majority of college players do a lot of that stuff.

weezie
03-15-2015, 09:34 PM
Yeah I'm getting pretty peeved. What a bunch of crybabies these old guy opponents still are.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 09:37 PM
I didn't like Laettner all that much either. When I was 12, I saw him at a Golden Corral, he wouldn't sign an autograph for me and wasn't very nice about it. :)

But he won games for my favorite team and was a great player and that's all that mattered in the end.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 09:43 PM
LOL

RE: The Timberlake stomp.

Whenever you hear about the stomp, it's always about Laettner. But you never hear about that two handed shove into the stanchion or the woofing by Timberlake after he got shoved.

weezie
03-15-2015, 09:46 PM
I literally ran into him at a uva football game while walking in the tunnels and nearly fainted at how handsome he was, swoon.....

Newton_14
03-15-2015, 09:50 PM
LOL

RE: The Timberlake stomp.

Whenever you hear about the stomp, it's always about Laettner. But you never hear about that two handed shove into the stanchion or the woofing by Timberlake after he got shoved.

Exactly. I have the dvd proof on the shelf just under my TV right in front of me and have watched it many times. Timberlake went after Laettner every time he got into that game. Laettner was still dumb to pay him back the way he did, but Timberlake definitely deserved payback. But alas, the responder always gets the technical or the foul call, never the initiator.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 09:51 PM
Exactly. I have the dvd proof on the shelf just under my TV right in front of me and have watched it many times. Timberlake went after Laettner every time he got into that game. Laettner was still dumb to pay him back the way he did, but Timberlake definitely deserved payback. But alas, the responder always gets the technical or the foul call, never the initiator.

I had even forgotten it because the narrative has overcome the facts.

OldPhiKap
03-15-2015, 09:59 PM
I can't tell you how much I am enjoying seeing Bobby and Christian right now.

1999ballboy
03-15-2015, 09:59 PM
Good stuff. I love the fact that you hear a lot from people on both sides. Except for that "This is why Duke sucks" Maryland guy. Considering his "humor" comes mostly from homophobic epithets, I'm rather disappointed in ESPN for giving him any time of day.

Newton_14
03-15-2015, 10:00 PM
I had even forgotten it because the narrative has overcome the facts.

Well you will just have to mosey on over to my joint after the season ends so we can watch it. I'll get Mrs Newton_14 to whip us up some supper or something!

arnie
03-15-2015, 10:01 PM
I had even forgotten it because the narrative has overcome the facts.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the show. Particularly the comments from losers- Carolina fan and Jalen Rose.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:03 PM
Good stuff. I love the fact that you hear a lot from people on both sides. Except for that "This is why Duke sucks" Maryland guy. Considering his "humor" comes mostly from homophobic epithets, I'm rather disappointed in ESPN for giving him any time of day.

I remember in middle school, the most popular insult about Laettner was a homophobic epithet. Just shows the class of Duke hate.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:04 PM
Well you will just have to mosey on over to my joint after the season ends so we can watch it. I'll get Mrs Newton_14 to whip us up some supper or something!

Sounds like good times!

I'll wear the 1991 NCAA title satin hat and maybe even try to dig out the old Duke blue soda. Probably doesn't taste very good after 25 years.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:05 PM
I remember in middle school, the most popular insult about Laettner was a homophobic epithet. Just shows the class of Duke hate.

And on cue they start talking about that and why...

DesertDevil
03-15-2015, 10:18 PM
Really enjoying this. A couple things that I will say. 1) that "producer" is a Maryland alum and carries himself as the whiny, d-bag to prove it. 2) I am and will always be convinced Pitino put Timberlake in the game to provoke CL. Timerberlake has played like 30 minutes all year prior to that game if I recall correctly.

fuse
03-15-2015, 10:23 PM
One of the two Duke Sucks authors is a real whiny d*bag.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:25 PM
One of the two Duke Sucks authors is a real whiny d*bag.

One of two? Try both.

And that youtube "song" is awful.

weezie
03-15-2015, 10:26 PM
What not both?

JStuart
03-15-2015, 10:28 PM
One of the two Duke Sucks authors is a real whiny d*bag.

And who is this Bagwell guy? He sounds like he's no more mature than a college kid. Saying -as a unc fan & grad- that he feels Duke always 'got away with something'. Really humorous when his school hasn't ever denied playing ineligible players for several decades.

weezie
03-15-2015, 10:31 PM
Sweet ending as credits rolled! Laettner showing his kid The Shot in the backyard?!

Dukehky
03-15-2015, 10:31 PM
And who is this Bagwell guy? He sounds like he's no more mature than a college kid. Saying -as a unc fan & grad- that he feels Duke always 'got away with something'. Really humorous when his school hasn't ever denied playing ineligible players for several decades.

I hope that Carolina author of Duke Sucks gets interviewed this much when they make a 30 for 30 on the UNC Cheating scandal.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:31 PM
Sweet ending as credits rolled! Laettner showing his kid The Shot in the backyard?!

Kinda stinks. Only youtube video I get to show my kid is of me falling out of a chair.

MCFinARL
03-15-2015, 10:34 PM
I thought that was a great show. Very interesting, very well done. Agreed some of the people being interviewed were, um, a little biased, but I thought their bias was completely clear as the show was presented.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:36 PM
I thought that was a great show. Very interesting, very well done. Agreed some of the people being interviewed were, um, a little biased, but I thought their bias was completely clear as the show was presented.

Hardly anyone in the documentary was relevant. I mean, a guy who made a popular YouTube video and one who wrote a bad book were featured the most.

The Fab Five interviews were re-hashed from the "Fab Five" documentary.

Best part of the piece was Brian Davis.

roywhite
03-15-2015, 10:37 PM
I thought that was a great show. Very interesting, very well done. Agreed some of the people being interviewed were, um, a little biased, but I thought their bias was completely clear as the show was presented.

Yep, agree, really a good show. And the bitterness of some of the haters is still sweet to Duke fans.

hurleyfor3
03-15-2015, 10:37 PM
You'd think they'd find some Kentucky fan haters to interview.

gumbomoop
03-15-2015, 10:38 PM
Sweet ending as credits rolled! Laettner showing his kid The Shot in the backyard?!

Yes! And best of all, he makes exactly "the" move, then swishes "the" shot, then says, probably smirking, to the camera: "You guys didn't think I'd make it the first time." Perfect.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 10:38 PM
You'd think they'd find some Kentucky fan haters to interview.

Nope. Just some Maryland morons.

They'd be more relevant in a "I hate Kent Benson" documentary.

Dukehky
03-15-2015, 10:38 PM
You'd think they'd find some Kentucky fan haters to interview.

Why give that Maryland Troll any attention. He made a youtube video, congratu-freakin-lations.

Duke76
03-15-2015, 10:51 PM
LOL

RE: The Timberlake stomp.

Whenever you hear about the stomp, it's always about Laettner. But you never hear about that two handed shove into the stanchion or the woofing by Timberlake after he got shoved.

Agree exactly, never knew about it so you know now that he was provoked. Not saying the "tap' was right but at least there was a reason for it.....and I cannot decide who grates on me more, Jalen Rose, the Carolina writer or the knucklehead producer of the youtube video....that should be a poll for us

CoachJ10
03-15-2015, 10:54 PM
And who is this Bagwell guy? He sounds like he's no more mature than a college kid. Saying -as a unc fan & grad- that he feels Duke always 'got away with something'. Really humorous when his school hasn't ever denied playing ineligible players for several decades.

The Duke "haters" on here real look like clowns. This Bagwell kid in particular.

Jalen still is whiny...but Jimmy King showed some respect.

Duke76
03-15-2015, 11:00 PM
Sweet ending as credits rolled! Laettner showing his kid The Shot in the backyard?!

that may have been the best part of it!!

that and watching those UNLV free throws that were so pure

BlueDevilBrowns
03-15-2015, 11:04 PM
My takeaways:

The contrast between those that achieve greatness and those that hate while accomplishing nothing couldn't have been made more clear.

Also, Brian Davis may be more "Nate James" than Nate James... Dude is Real.

MCFinARL
03-15-2015, 11:14 PM
Hardly anyone in the documentary was relevant. I mean, a guy who made a popular YouTube video and one who wrote a bad book were featured the most.

The Fab Five interviews were re-hashed from the "Fab Five" documentary.

Best part of the piece was Brian Davis.

Agree Brian Davis was terrific. But I have to question your assertion that hardly anyone was "relevant"--relevant to what? I thought the people interviewed, especially the two you mention, were extremely relevant to the phenomenon that the show was about--irrational hatred of Christian Laettner, and beyond that of Duke. They were typical examples of same. And in the end, I thought the show as a whole revealed them for what they were.

HaveFunExpectToWin
03-15-2015, 11:16 PM
maybe even try to dig out the old Duke blue soda. Probably doesn't taste very good after 25 years.

I wouldn't try that. Somehow the soda seeps through the sealed aluminum can and leaves a blue puddle. Can't be good on the gut either.

I liked this 30 for 30 but it needed way more Cherokee Parks.

FerryFor50
03-15-2015, 11:17 PM
Agree Brian Davis was terrific. But I have to question your assertion that hardly anyone was "relevant"--relevant to what? I thought the people interviewed, especially the two you mention, were extremely relevant to the phenomenon that the show was about--irrational hatred of Christian Laettner, and beyond that of Duke. They were typical examples of same. And in the end, I thought the show as a whole revealed them for what they were.

I'd have rather seen more from the opposing players and coaches, as well as teammates, rather than those clowns.

jipops
03-15-2015, 11:34 PM
The unc guy in the piece was easily the most hate able person.

killerleft
03-16-2015, 12:05 AM
Perhaps some of those haters will see themselves on TV and realize just how sad they really are. But I doubt it.

The old footage was great, I haven't seen some of it in years. I had forgotten that the LSU crowd was the Maryland of the South. Now I remember why I loved the two wins against them so much.:D

In retrospect, I think Laettner easily showed more class than his detractors did back in the day. If our here and now Devils can play with the fire and fearlessness that Christian showed back then, we make the Final Four.

jipops
03-16-2015, 12:08 AM
Perhaps some of those haters will see themselves on TV and realize just how sad they really are. But I doubt it.

The old footage was great, I haven't seen some of it in years. I had forgotten that the LSU crowd was the Maryland of the South. Now I remember why I loved the two wins against them so much.:D

In retrospect, I think Laettner easily showed more class than his detractors did back in the day. If our here and now Devils can play with the fire and fearlessness that Christian showed back then, we make the Final Four.

This documentary really showed how being a hater based on perception is so foolish. Maybe I shouldn't despise unc so much...nah...

subzero02
03-16-2015, 12:38 AM
I really enjoyed the high school video footage of Laettner. I can't wait to watch this without having to read the closed captioning. There is one thing missing from all of these Duke related documentaries and that's the opinion of Grandma-ma. RIP Tark.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-16-2015, 08:37 AM
Wonder how this (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/christian-laettner-live-tweeting-his-30-for-30-was-almost-as-good-as-the-show-031500917.html) plays with the villain storyline.

wilson
03-16-2015, 08:41 AM
...maybe even try to dig out the old Duke blue soda. Probably doesn't taste very good after 25 years.It didn't taste very good right off the assembly line either.

revmel53
03-16-2015, 08:44 AM
I enjoyed the documentary. Was reminded of how good Laettner really was. Saw him for the first time in a barnstorming pre-season game in Cherryville, before his freshman season. He banged up Ferry good in the scrimmage. Tried to take his head off one time. IMO, he is the greatest Duke player of all time. Love the guy.

Mike Corey
03-16-2015, 08:57 AM
I really did not think this was the strongest ESPN documentary, but for the high school footage, and some other primary source material...and Brian Davis.

The amount of (unnecessary) pop culture, and many of the choices for interviewees--from journalists to essentially random people that loathe Laettner--was distracting and lacked insight.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
03-16-2015, 09:00 AM
Yea the real star of this 30 for 30 was Brian Davis!!! He had some awesome quotes and said his peace about the Fab 5 and how he really felt about them. "I'm more hood than any of those motherf---rs on that team" bwahahaha

stillcrazie
03-16-2015, 09:01 AM
Does anyone know if this will be available online any time soon?

Stray Gator
03-16-2015, 09:13 AM
I really did not think this was the strongest ESPN documentary, but for the high school footage, and some other primary source material...and Brian Davis.

The amount of (unnecessary) pop culture, and many of the choices for interviewees--from journalists to essentially random people that loathe Laettner--was distracting and lacked insight.

I thought the use of the UNC fans (or maybe one was one a Maryland fan?) to exemplify the Duke/Laettner-hate was delicious irony, given the fact that the narrator was Rob Lowe. Like Lowe's current popular series of commercials, those segments simply highlighted the contrast between the confident, relaxed, accomplished Dukies and the dorky, dumb, tin-foil-hat-wearing losers who epitomize the anti-Dukies. For the purpose of illustrating why the hatred for Christian Laettner and Duke is at once amusing and a sad commentary on the perspectives of the haters, I thought it was practically perfect.

Mike Corey
03-16-2015, 09:31 AM
As ever, Stray, you make excellent and persuasive points.

jacone21
03-16-2015, 11:43 AM
I thought the use of the UNC fans (or maybe one was one a Maryland fan?) to exemplify the Duke/Laettner-hate was delicious irony, given the fact that the narrator was Rob Lowe. Like Lowe's current popular series of commercials, those segments simply highlighted the contrast between the confident, relaxed, accomplished Dukies and the dorky, dumb, tin-foil-hat-wearing losers who epitomize the anti-Dukies. For the purpose of illustrating why the hatred for Christian Laettner and Duke is at once amusing and a sad commentary on the perspectives of the haters, I thought it was practically perfect.


"I'm Rob Lowe."

"And I'm UNC fan Rob Lowe."

That has potential! Someone call DirecTV.

Tjenkins
03-16-2015, 12:15 PM
I didn't watch the last 30 minutes, had to record it & go to bed, so I don't know what happens after that. I shut it off when they were addressing the "gay" rumors.

But Jalen Rose really needs to get over it. Here's a guy who had a great college basketball career, a nice NBA career, has a good-paying gig as a sportscaster, and he can't stop talking about how much he hates Laettner 23 years later. His continued anti-Duke/Laettner comments should be beneath someone of his stature at the age of 42. He doesn't have to like Laettner, but he almost acts like Duke personally wronged him because they had the gall not to lay down and let his team beat them 3 times.

Other than Rose, the Maryland and UNC fans, I thought it was pretty good.

In re Timberlake:Laettner's foot tap was wrong and stupid, but I'd never noticed that Deron Feldhaus (not Timberlake) shoved him in to the stanchion until last night.

Billy Dat
03-16-2015, 12:38 PM
I really did not think this was the strongest ESPN documentary, but for the high school footage, and some other primary source material...and Brian Davis.

The amount of (unnecessary) pop culture, and many of the choices for interviewees--from journalists to essentially random people that loathe Laettner--was distracting and lacked insight.

I agree with this take with the qualifier that we are going to be a tough crowd because we know this material so well.

As far as stuff I had never seen before, i thought the segment about how his older brother, Chris, helped forge him into a tough SOB was really interesting. I also liked the high school brawl footage. Seeing Mickie K get choked up talking about him was also good.

However, one thing that the doc really got wrong was the idea that "the Duke hatred tsunami" - remember that DBR thread? - started before 1992. If anything, most of America was rooting for Duke in 1991, we were the perennial bridesmaid at that point. I don't think the like turned to hate until after 1992. The rest of Grant Hill's career, Duke was pretty popular and then the program went into its trough from 1995 - 1997. I think it was the Wojo, Shane, Duke v Terp rivalry into JJ era when Duke hate was fermented...1998-2006.

jacone21
03-16-2015, 12:47 PM
I agree with this take with the qualifier that we are going to be a tough crowd because we know this material so well.

As far as stuff I had never seen before, i thought the segment about how his older brother, Chris, helped forge him into a tough SOB was really interesting. I also liked the high school brawl footage. Seeing Mickie K get choked up talking about him was also good.

However, one thing that the doc really got wrong was the idea that "the Duke hatred tsunami" - remember that DBR thread? - started before 1992. If anything, most of America was rooting for Duke in 1991, we were the perennial bridesmaid at that point. I don't think the like turned to hate until after 1992. The rest of Grant Hill's career, Duke was pretty popular and then the program went into its trough from 1995 - 1997. I think it was the Wojo, Shane, Duke v Terp rivalry into JJ era when Duke hate was fermented...1998-2006.

So what you're saying is... The Internet.

Duke79UNLV77
03-16-2015, 12:47 PM
Other than Rose, the Maryland and UNC fans, I thought it was pretty good.

The problem was that the documentary featured these Three Stooges as centerpieces, rather than bit players.

The documentary also seemed to force some things to fit into its agenda, For example, it implied that Laettner bloodied Montross when IIRC Montross got bloodied by friendly fire. Also, the documentary suggested that most of the world was for UNLV over Duke, when in fact the reverse was true. Duke had a Chicago Cubs type off popularity until the moment it won its first title and the widespread hatred didn't take off until the "stomp" and the second title.

Also, why there certainly is a pattern of white Duke players being hated, I think this documentary, the UNLV documentary, and the Michigan documentary all make it sound like UNLV and Michigan were the equivalent of Texas Western when that simply was not the case.

FerryFor50
03-16-2015, 12:49 PM
The problem was that the documentary featured these Three Stooges as centerpieces, rather than bit players.

The documentary also seemed to force some things to fit into its agenda, For example, it implied that Laettner bloodied Montross when IIRC Montross got bloodied by friendly fire. Also, the documentary suggested that most of the world was for UNLV over Duke, when in fact the reverse was true. Duke had a Chicago Cubs type off popularity until the moment it won its first title and the widespread hatred didn't take off until the "stomp" and the second title.

Also, why there certainly is a pattern of white Duke players being hated, I think this documentary, the UNLV documentary, and the Michigan documentary all make it sound like UNLV and Michigan were the equivalent of Texas Western when that simply was not the case.

I found it hilarious that they talked about Tupac wearing UNLV gear as support as to how "street" UNLV was versus how "white" Duke was.

4883

DukieInKansas
03-16-2015, 01:01 PM
Was talking to a co-worker about the show. She remembered hating Christian Laettner at the time but couldn't believe there were still people that hate him.

I didn't know how the LSU crowd had treated him. Like others, I enjoyed the high school footage and the interviews with his family and coaching staff. I wish I had known he was live tweeting throughout the show. That would have been fun to follow.

duke79
03-16-2015, 01:40 PM
I really did not think this was the strongest ESPN documentary, but for the high school footage, and some other primary source material...and Brian Davis.

The amount of (unnecessary) pop culture, and many of the choices for interviewees--from journalists to essentially random people that loathe Laettner--was distracting and lacked insight.

Agreed, not the strongest ESPN documentary - it seemed a little too "Hollywoodish" to me at times, BUT I got the impression right from the beginning that was done largely tongue-in-cheek and NOT meant to be a serious evaluation of the "Laettner hate" phenomenon. I also got the impression that they were grasping as straws for much of the documentary to fill out the full 90 minutes - I didn't quite buy the notion that part of the "Duke hate" was related to change in popular culture and music, with Duke representing the old style and UNLV and Michigan representing hip hop and baggy pants culture. Huh?? I do think, by the end, Christian actually comes out looking quite good, with almost everyone interviewed admitting their grudging respect for his basketball skills and competitiveness.

flyingdutchdevil
03-16-2015, 01:49 PM
Agreed, not the strongest ESPN documentary - it seemed a little too "Hollywoodish" to me at times, BUT I got the impression right from the beginning that was done largely tongue-in-cheek and NOT meant to be a serious evaluation of the "Laettner hate" phenomenon. I also got the impression that they were grasping as straws for much of the documentary to fill out the full 90 minutes - I didn't quite buy the notion that part of the "Duke hate" was related to change in popular culture and music, with Duke representing the old style and UNLV and Michigan representing hip hop and baggy pants culture. Huh?? I do think, by the end, Christian actually comes out looking quite good, with almost everyone interviewed admitting their grudging respect for his basketball skills and competitiveness.

That's the thing - it's pretty irrational to hate Laettner. Sure, he had his personality faults. Sure, he was a good NBA player (not great). But you can't really "hate" someone for that. In the documentary, they mentioned OJ as an athlete you can legitimately hate. There is logic in "hating" the Michael Vicks, A-Rods, and Ray Rices of the world for criminal activities and cheating. But Laettner? The dude smoked some weed. That's really it.

I think the documentary was incredibly pro-Laettner. It did a great job of showing how players / media / fans hated Laettner for all the wrong reasons.

I enjoyed the documentary. It's one of the more "fun" and not serious 30 For 30s. It's not Man on Wire or Murderball, but it's a fun documentary, especially for those of us who love Duke.

sagegrouse
03-16-2015, 02:05 PM
Props to Laettner and his agent for helping ESPN define and execute this project. The AT&T commercials with Shaq and Dr. J would never have happened without the "I Hate C. Laettner" show.

The spurt of attention will give Christian a second career as a somewhat disreputable, but still lovable pop icon.

weezie
03-16-2015, 02:33 PM
...the contrast between the confident, relaxed, accomplished Dukies and the dorky, dumb, tin-foil-hat-wearing losers who epitomize the anti-Dukies...

And we're better looking, don't forget that!
And better dancers, and we have cuter children!

sagegrouse
03-16-2015, 02:45 PM
And we're better looking, don't forget that!
And better dancers, and we have cuter children!

And definitely cuter grandchildren.

diamondm
03-16-2015, 03:22 PM
I wouldn't try that. Somehow the soda seeps through the sealed aluminum can and leaves a blue puddle. Can't be good on the gut either.



I had to throw out my sticky 6 pack years ago after it had slowly leaked all over my shelf.

Mal
03-16-2015, 04:32 PM
So what you're saying is... The Internet.

Ding ding ding! Right on. Very few outside the ACC, and then Kentucky after The Shot, had much in the way of negative feelings about Duke until after the run of 7 in 9. We were America's Team from '90-'94, at least. There was maybe some "Man, I'm getting tired of those guys making the Final Four every year" but mostly it was admiration. Our rise to dominance immediately preceeded the growth of the internet, however (and, we should add, immediately succeeded the NCAA tournament becoming a Big Thing on the heels of NC State and Villanova), so national awareness of the game put us on a massive, never before seen, platform guaranteed to lead to resentment. This also coincided with the proliferation of nationally televised college hoops and the rising hegemony of ESPN. So, predictably, they hyped/televised/overexposed us to death, and tied our identity to one particularly obnoxious and grating announcer who screamed our praises incessantly and hyperbolically. I suppose Laettner's stomp on Timberlake was a nice talisman for budding haters to rally around, but I don't think many outside the state of Kentucky really cared about it all that much. There were other factors, but no one ever hated UCLA the way they hate(d) us, and no one hated Indiana in the late '70's through 1987 the way they hate(d) us, and no one seems to hate Billy Donovan's Florida back-to-back champ juggernaut at all.

weezie
03-16-2015, 04:39 PM
I had to throw out my sticky 6 pack years ago after it had slowly leaked all over my shelf.

Same thing happened to me. Yikes, what was in that stuff?

Still have the 2001 Coke in the bottle though.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-16-2015, 05:05 PM
Does anybody know where we can watch a replay?
Love, Ima

gcashwell
03-16-2015, 05:28 PM
Does anybody know where we can watch a replay?
Love, Ima

I believe it will be on espn2 tonight at 9:30 Eastern.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-16-2015, 05:50 PM
I believe it will be on espn2 tonight at 9:30 Eastern.

Thanks, I'll check it out. I got all caught up in Madam Secretary last night and forgot all about Christian!
Love, Ima

-jk
03-16-2015, 05:55 PM
Thanks, I'll check it out. I got all caught up in Madam Secretary last night and forgot all about Christian!
Love, Ima

Love my Tivo! It auto-programmed it for me... </endorsement>

-jk

Edouble
03-16-2015, 06:25 PM
Ding ding ding! Right on. Very few outside the ACC, and then Kentucky after The Shot, had much in the way of negative feelings about Duke until after the run of 7 in 9. We were America's Team from '90-'94, at least. There was maybe some "Man, I'm getting tired of those guys making the Final Four every year" but mostly it was admiration. Our rise to dominance immediately preceeded the growth of the internet, however (and, we should add, immediately succeeded the NCAA tournament becoming a Big Thing on the heels of NC State and Villanova), so national awareness of the game put us on a massive, never before seen, platform guaranteed to lead to resentment. This also coincided with the proliferation of nationally televised college hoops and the rising hegemony of ESPN. So, predictably, they hyped/televised/overexposed us to death, and tied our identity to one particularly obnoxious and grating announcer who screamed our praises incessantly and hyperbolically. I suppose Laettner's stomp on Timberlake was a nice talisman for budding haters to rally around, but I don't think many outside the state of Kentucky really cared about it all that much. There were other factors, but no one ever hated UCLA the way they hate(d) us, and no one hated Indiana in the late '70's through 1987 the way they hate(d) us, and no one seems to hate Billy Donovan's Florida back-to-back champ juggernaut at all.

This is spot on. I think there's a good deal of revisionist history going with all of this Laettner hatred. As a Duke fan during the 7 for 9, none of my school friends had a bad word to say about the Blue Devils.

Bridesmaid... Chicago Cubs... that was exactly how we were seen by everyone that I knew.

The hate, as I first experienced it, came after we went to the championship game in '99, took our early entry hit, and then steamrolled through the ACC the next year, and won the NC the year after that. You were supposed to have a down year after an exodus and we leapfrogged it!

NashvilleDevil
03-16-2015, 06:32 PM
This is spot on. I think there's a good deal of revisionist history going with all of this Laettner hatred. As a Duke fan during the 7 for 9, none of my school friends had a bad word to say about the Blue Devils.

Bridesmaid... Chicago Cubs... that was exactly how we were seen by everyone that I knew.

The hate, as I first experienced it, came after we went to the championship game in '99, took our early entry hit, and then steamrolled through the ACC the next year, and won the NC the year after that. You were supposed to have a down year after an exodus and we leapfrogged it!

Billy Packer, Gary Williams, and Lute Olsen in 2001 are the three big reasons why there is such Duke hate. Packer pretty much started the Duke gets all the calls that Final Four weekend.

ricks68
03-16-2015, 07:28 PM
Same thing happened to me. Yikes, what was in that stuff?

Still have the 2001 Coke in the bottle though.

Same thing that is in other soft drinks----------acid.:eek:

ricks

ricks68
03-16-2015, 07:32 PM
Billy Packer, Gary Williams, and Lute Olsen in 2001 are the three big reasons why there is such Duke hate. Packer pretty much started the Duke gets all the calls that Final Four weekend.

Oh boy. I just got a big headache and indigestion at the same time. They should have at least a 24hr-24hr special on "Why I Still Hate Billy Packer". :eek:

(Just using the word "Hate" in the context of the meaning of the show. Extreme dislike is certainly a much better description.)

ricks

sagegrouse
03-16-2015, 07:59 PM
Billy Packer, Gary Williams, and Lute Olsen in 2001 are the three big reasons why there is such Duke hate. Packer pretty much started the Duke gets all the calls that Final Four weekend.

That's giving those bozos too much credit. It's euphonics -- "I hate Duke" is catchy and meaningful. "I hate Kentucky" is not catchy and means exactly what? Race horses? State politics? Hillbillies? Hatfield-McCoy feuds? "I hate Carolina" is hard to say -- two one syllable words followed by a four syllable word. It is similarly obtuse, including some confusion over which state you are talking about and whether or not you find the Redneck Riviera a bit, shall we say, tacky.

Kindly, Sage
'Give me Folly Beach any day between May 1 and October 1'

Henderson
03-16-2015, 08:12 PM
I've watched probably a half dozen Laettner promo appearances for this film, and I've been impressed. He's quite thoughtful about the whole thing. Self-effacing, measured, funny, proud, regretful, satisfied, pleased. All of it. His recreation of The Stomp on The Dan Patrick Show was fun.

Oh, and Jalen Rose is a flaming bit of bile-soaked dog crap. That enormous buffalo chip perched on his shoulder is weighing him down badly. Jimmy King: No one ever cared about you. Not starting now. You both got punked by Laettner in front of millions. Deal with it privately.

MarkD83
03-16-2015, 08:54 PM
I've watched probably a half dozen Laettner promo appearances for this film, and I've been impressed. He's quite thoughtful about the whole thing. Self-effacing, measured, funny, proud, regretful, satisfied, pleased. All of it. His recreation of The Stomp on The Dan Patrick Show was fun.

Oh, and Jalen Rose is a flaming bit of bile-soaked dog crap. That enormous buffalo chip perched on his shoulder is weighing him down badly. Jimmy King: No one ever cared about you. Not starting now. You both got punked by Laettner in front of millions. Deal with it privately.

I would go easy on Jimmy King. He was the only one who made a point of saying he "hated" Laettner, but clearly now he has matured and grown up.

BobbyFan
03-16-2015, 09:19 PM
Loved the documentary, in no small part due to nostalgia. There were inaccuracies, including the timeline of Duke hatred. But the portrayal of Laettner and those who despised him was spot on. The grown "men" who fancy themselves as haters were exposed as sad and pathetic, which was hardly surprising.

It also had me reminiscing about the heyday of college basketball. Laettner vs. Mourning twice; Laettner vs. Shaq twice; get crushed by UNLV, only to exact revenge next year with similar teams; more intense conference rivalries; beat Michigan twice in 92, then Hurley/Hill step up after Laettner leaves and beat Michigan again the next season. The star power and continuity made for an amazing product.

Kalaby
03-16-2015, 10:09 PM
One of the interesting things to come out of last night's 30 for 30 was the footage from the '92 Awards Banquet...something I'd never seen before. Pretty moving stuff from both Laettner and Coach K.

Henderson
03-16-2015, 10:47 PM
Does anybody know where we can watch a replay?
Love, Ima


I believe it will be on espn2 tonight at 9:30 Eastern.

The full thing is up on YouTube now.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-16-2015, 11:40 PM
Watching the clip of the banquet speech, I was hoping sooooooooo hard they would include Laettner's banquet video. Mickie used to do a masterful job of putting them together with theme songs appropriate to each senior player and they were spectacular. Most were really fast moving montages of their most spectacular plays set to up tempo popular songs. But, Christian's, oh, Christian's! It was gorgeous. Much of it almost like a ballet set to Natalie Cole singing "Unforgettable". It brought the house down that night.

It must be in a vault someplace. Wish somebody could pull it out for us.
Love, Ima

dbcooper
03-17-2015, 06:27 AM
Did anyone else notice the Christian's shirt in the Home Video of Chris and Christian throwing football as young kids in their back yard? Christian is wearing an old faded Red Shirt with the number "32" on it - He picked the number he would retire and hang in the rafters at Cameron at Six years old..... WOW!!:cool::cool:

Also check out the picture hanging in Christians living room when he is talking on his couch.... " The Last Shot"

Aewsome and Nostalgic Documentary, brings back great memories of that teams moxy and never lose attitude!

Go Duke.

DB ---E

Tom B.
03-17-2015, 11:11 AM
Oh, and Jalen Rose is a flaming bit of bile-soaked dog crap. That enormous buffalo chip perched on his shoulder is weighing him down badly. Jimmy King: No one ever cared about you. Not starting now. You both got punked by Laettner in front of millions. Deal with it privately.




They can console themselves with their zero conference and national championships. And their two vacated Final Fours.


It seems Rose is still quite sensitive about this topic: http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/jalen-rose-got-just-a-little-defensive-towards-frank-isola.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=jalen-rose-got-just-a-little-defensive-towards-frank-isola

Billy Dat
03-17-2015, 11:25 AM
It seems Rose is still quite sensitive about this topic: http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/jalen-rose-got-just-a-little-defensive-towards-frank-isola.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=jalen-rose-got-just-a-little-defensive-towards-frank-isola

What's funny about this is that the NY Daily News writer, Frank Isola, who got into this twitter beef with Rose is a Maryland fan and enormous Duke troll. He constantly throws shade at Duke and Coach K. The fact that he used Duke to take a shot at Michigan and the Fab Five cracks me up, but Isola is just a troll in general, a strategic troll is probably more accurate, as he tries to spark controversy to craft a brand as a bit of a maverick. These days, journalists need to pump up their twitter followers to have real currency.

oldnavy
03-17-2015, 11:27 AM
They can console themselves with their zero conference and national championships. And their two vacated Final Fours.


It seems Rose is still quite sensitive about this topic: http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/jalen-rose-got-just-a-little-defensive-towards-frank-isola.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=jalen-rose-got-just-a-little-defensive-towards-frank-isola

Sad thing is I like Rose when he isn't on his "personal discrimination, I got no respect, You ain't black unless you are black like me" (loved Brian Davis' rebuttal to that!).... soap box.

When he isn't off topic, the man knows basketball and can be quite insightful, but I agree with others, he really needs to get over it and move on.

Nobody is going to cry for Jalen Rose, especially since he has been so successful in the very system he likes to whine about.

Billy Dat
03-17-2015, 02:53 PM
Jeff Greer ‏@jeffgreer_cj 24m24 minutes ago
Pitino on "I Hate Christian Laettner" doc: "They asked me to be a part of it and I said no -- because I don't hate Christian Laettner."

BobbyFan
03-17-2015, 03:12 PM
Though Isola is often a troll, he's actually correct that UNLV should get much of the credit that the Fab Five gets with regard to cultural impact. The Fab Five have become incredibly overrated, both on the court and off.


When he isn't off topic, the man knows basketball and can be quite insightful, but I agree with others, he really needs to get over it and move on.

It's ironic that Rose used quotes around the word analyst when describing Isola. Rose is brutal to listen to. Sometimes, he'll provide an interesting anecdote. But I don't find him insightful at all, and he has a penchant for getting loud and making jokes that just draws awkward smiles from the other studio hosts. His former teammate, Chris Webber, is much better and can actually be funny.

FerryFor50
03-17-2015, 03:13 PM
Though Isola is often a troll, he's actually correct that UNLV should get much of the credit that the Fab Five gets with regard to cultural impact. The Fab Five have become incredibly overrated, both on the court and off.



It's ironic that Rose used quotes around the word analyst when describing Isola. Rose is brutal to listen to. Sometimes, he'll provide an interesting anecdote. But I don't find him insightful at all, and he has a penchant for getting loud and making jokes that just draws awkward smiles from the other studio hosts. His former teammate, Chris Webber, is much better and can actually be funny.

And his delivery is awful. No personality whatsoever.

JStuart
03-24-2015, 05:28 PM
The full thing is up on YouTube now.

After mulling over whether to comment on the special, I realized that the contrast between Christian and Michael Jordan is 'impressive':
for example,
everyone wants to be 'like Mike', even though he became a superstar (Air Jordan) only after going pro. His college career was good, not as great as everyone remembers.
He -apparently- is notorious for being non-fan friendly, has a well-known gambling problem; stories abound about his womanizing,
BUT, he is unc's best product. No one hates him, and -despite his mediocre management skills (see Wizards, Washington, and Bobcats, Charlotte)- he gets nothing but good pub.

Christian simply was a fantastic college basketball player, and has had no off-the-court shenanigans.
Would he be hated if he had gone to unc?
Where would MJ be had he not panned out at Chicago. Would he be the 'best unc player EVAH?'
I'll let this thread sink back down to page 5 again; my comments usually have that effect.
Too much time between games!
JStuart

Newton_14
03-24-2015, 09:02 PM
After mulling over whether to comment on the special, I realized that the contrast between Christian and Michael Jordan is 'impressive':
for example,
everyone wants to be 'like Mike', even though he became a superstar (Air Jordan) only after going pro. His college career was good, not as great as everyone remembers.
He -apparently- is notorious for being non-fan friendly, has a well-known gambling problem; stories abound about his womanizing,
BUT, he is unc's best product. No one hates him, and -despite his mediocre management skills (see Wizards, Washington, and Bobcats, Charlotte)- he gets nothing but good pub.

Christian simply was a fantastic college basketball player, and has had no off-the-court shenanigans.
Would he be hated if he had gone to unc?
Where would MJ be had he not panned out at Chicago. Would he be the 'best unc player EVAH?'
I'll let this thread sink back down to page 5 again; my comments usually have that effect.
Too much time between games!
JStuart
To further your point, one of the great travesties in ACC history is when Jordan and Not David Thompson was voted best player ever in the ACC at the ACC's 50th Birthday Celebration. Thompson is hands down the best player ever in the ACC and its not close. Laettner is definitely in the Top 5, Jordan is not.

As for the FAB 5, the thing I will always remember about them is they took trash talking and disrespecting the opponent to the highest level. Their impact on the game in that regard was much bigger than the baggy shorts and black socks. It's a sad thing to be remembered for and unfortunately thousands of young basketball players across the Country embraced that crap. I fully believe that is why the taunting rules in College are as strict as they are today. Thank the Fab 5.

They were good/great players and a good/great team. Had all 5 stayed in College the full 4 years it is likely they win one or both titles their final two seasons as Jr's and Sr's. As it stands, they never won a Big Ten Title or a National Title. Two Regional Championships is their best accomplishment.

I was pulling for them hard though in the 93 Title game for obvious reasons. I don't hate any of them actually, though I wish Jalen could come to terms on a few things, and lose the bitterness. He is not the only kid that grew up in a tough environment, and went on to success. The hate against other black players that grew up in good homes with money is disappointing, and the hate against Duke is irrational at best. He needs to let all that stuff go.

szstark
03-25-2015, 09:35 AM
Though Isola is often a troll, he's actually correct that UNLV should get much of the credit that the Fab Five gets with regard to cultural impact. The Fab Five have become incredibly overrated, both on the court and off.



It's ironic that Rose used quotes around the word analyst when describing Isola. Rose is brutal to listen to. Sometimes, he'll provide an interesting anecdote. But I don't find him insightful at all, and he has a penchant for getting loud and making jokes that just draws awkward smiles from the other studio hosts. His former teammate, Chris Webber, is much better and can actually be funny.

Isn't Webber the one who said "Duke doesn't recruit guys like us"? I think Brian Davis calls him out on it.

jv001
03-25-2015, 10:16 AM
To further your point, one of the great travesties in ACC history is when Jordan and Not David Thompson was voted best player ever in the ACC at the ACC's 50th Birthday Celebration. Thompson is hands down the best player ever in the ACC and its not close. Laettner is definitely in the Top 5, Jordan is not.
As for the FAB 5, the thing I will always remember about them is they took trash talking and disrespecting the opponent to the highest level. Their impact on the game in that regard was much bigger than the baggy shorts and black socks. It's a sad thing to be remembered for and unfortunately thousands of young basketball players across the Country embraced that crap. I fully believe that is why the taunting rules in College are as strict as they are today. Thank the Fab 5.

They were good/great players and a good/great team. Had all 5 stayed in College the full 4 years it is likely they win one or both titles their final two seasons as Jr's and Sr's. As it stands, they never won a Big Ten Title or a National Title. Two Regional Championships is their best accomplishment.

I was pulling for them hard though in the 93 Title game for obvious reasons. I don't hate any of them actually, though I wish Jalen could come to terms on a few things, and lose the bitterness. He is not the only kid that grew up in a tough environment, and went on to success. The hate against other black players that grew up in good homes with money is disappointing, and the hate against Duke is irrational at best. He needs to let all that stuff go.

I tried to spork you but alas, I must spread more around. Everything you mention is dead on. First of all David Thompson was in my eyes the greatest college basketball player of all time. Michael Jordan was a great pro player but not in my top 25 college players of all time. Part of that due to Dean's way of not letting one player be the star. My 2nd top player in college basketball history is Christian Laettner. He was money. As for Jalen, he comes across as jealous of Duke's success. And the things he said regarding Christian, Grant and other Duke players almost comes across as racist. Great Post, Newt. GoDuke!

Tom B.
03-25-2015, 10:36 AM
Fixed it for you.




They were good/great players and a good/great team. Had all 5 stayed in College the full 4 years it is likely they win one or both titles their final two seasons as Jr's and Sr's. As it stands, they never won a Big Ten Title or a National Title. Two vacated Regional Championships is their best accomplishment.




Otherwise, excellent post!

sagegrouse
03-25-2015, 10:48 AM
Isn't Webber the one who said "Duke doesn't recruit guys like us"? I think Brian Davis calls him out on it.

Fact check: Didn't Duke recruit the heck out of Webber, and didn't he go to the Detroit Country Day School, which is where Shane Battier went to school?

Checking my references, I note that the Wikipedia entry has three mentions of Webber and only two of Shane -- advantage Shane! Look at the quote:


While at Country Day, scholarship basketball players Chris Webber and Shane Battier each won the Naismith Prep Player of the Year Award, making Country Day one of only two schools to have multiple Naismith award winners. Webber and Battier are also the only Naismith winners from the state of Michigan.

In March 2004 the Michigan High School Athletic Association recommended that DCDS voluntarily forfeit three state basketball championships won between 1989 and 1991, claiming that former DCDS star Chris Webber had violated his amateur status via his relationship with University of Michigan athletic booster Ed Martin. DCDS declined to follow the MHSAA's suggestion.

hurleyfor3
03-25-2015, 10:59 AM
Fact check: Didn't Duke recruit the heck out of Webber, and didn't he go to the Detroit Country Day School, which is where Shane Battier went to school?

Not only that, The Chronicle wrote a house editorial trying to get Webber to come to Duke. No, I didn't write it.

KYtotheCore
03-26-2015, 12:33 AM
Just got done watching this for the 3rd time. Phenomenal. I'm a huge UK fan (obviously, hence the name) and enjoyed the background insight. They did a great job showing his upbringing. I was a little surprised how much Jalen still appeared to seethe over talking about Laettner, even while expressing "respect" for him. As for "the shot", I remember being extremely disappointed at the time (and who wouldn't be?), but to still express any kind of emotion about that moment (good or bad) after all of this time seems so disconnected. My long-term thoughts were just it was too bad to be on the losing end of it, but I was just proud UK was there in the first place. We definitely over-achieved that season. I was indifferent regarding Laettner over the years, but have a true appreciation for him after viewing this. In fact, I thought it was really good of him to come to Rupp Arena a couple of years ago to participate in the charity event, and even play to the home crowd the way he did. It was an excellent way for him to show his true personality; humble and peace-making, and place some much-needed perspective on the whole thing, meaning he doesn't take himself so seriously, and neither should an entire fan base.

He was Clutch (capital C). No matter what side of Laettner a team was on, it's hard to argue with the results. He seems like a great guy - not necessarily short on confidence - but false humility to me is not admirable. He seems very genuine. The best quote of the whole documentary was "Winning cures all". Indeed it does.

CameronBlue
03-26-2015, 01:45 AM
Thompson is hands down the best player ever in the ACC and its not close. Laettner is definitely in the Top 5, Jordan is not.

As the official authority of such lists, I am happy to confirm that you are correct (though the vote was closer than you surmise):

Top 5 ACC
1. Thompson
2. Laettner
3. Sampson
4. Duncan
5. Ford

Top 5 NCAA
1. Lew Alcindor
2 (tie) Bill Walton
2. David Thompson
4. Pete Maravich
5. Christian Laettner

There, now that this is settled, we can focus on the Sweet 16. GO DUKE!!

jv001
03-26-2015, 07:26 AM
As the official authority of such lists, I am happy to confirm that you are correct (though the vote was closer than you surmise):

Top 5 ACC
1. Thompson
2. Laettner
3. Sampson
4. Duncan
5. Ford

Top 5 NCAA
1. Lew Alcindor
2 (tie) Bill Walton
2. David Thompson
4. Pete Maravich5. Christian Laettner

There, now that this is settled, we can focus on the Sweet 16. GO DUKE!!

As far as I'm concerned, I couldn't put Pistol Pete in the top five. Probably in the top ten. He never helped carry his team to a NCAA Championship. The other four did. Your ACC top five look good to me. GoDuke!

Bay Area Duke Fan
03-26-2015, 10:17 AM
As the official authority of such lists, I am happy to confirm that you are correct (though the vote was closer than you surmise):

Top 5 NCAA
1. Lew Alcindor
2 (tie) Bill Walton
2. David Thompson
4. Pete Maravich
5. Christian Laettner

There, now that this is settled, we can focus on the Sweet 16. GO DUKE!!

As great as those five were, I'd want to include Bill Russell and Oscar Robertson in the top 5.

TNDukeFan
03-26-2015, 11:03 AM
As far as I'm concerned, I couldn't put Pistol Pete in the top five. Probably in the top ten. He never helped carry his team to a NCAA Championship. The other four did. Your ACC top five look good to me. GoDuke!

Well, it depends on criteria, I suppose, but put me in Pistol Pete's camp. 44.5 points a game average over three years -- without the three-point shot -- and a wizard in the open court.

MCFinARL
05-07-2015, 01:12 PM
Apparently, they really, really do still hate Christian Laettner, as a Republican candidate for Kentucky governor called a primary opponent "the Christian Laettner of Kentucky politics (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/james-comer-kentucky-gubernatorial-race-marilyn-thomas)." (This is near the end of the linked article, which otherwise documents some pretty ugly charges against the candidate who made the Laettner comment.)

Tom B.
05-07-2015, 01:28 PM
Apparently, they really, really do still hate Christian Laettner, as a Republican candidate for Kentucky governor called a primary opponent "the Christian Laettner of Kentucky politics (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/james-comer-kentucky-gubernatorial-race-marilyn-thomas)." (This is near the end of the linked article, which otherwise documents some pretty ugly charges against the candidate who made the Laettner comment.)

Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/

subzero02
05-07-2015, 01:34 PM
Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/

Oh no he didn't... That's one of the funniest things I have ever read.

53n206
05-07-2015, 01:45 PM
Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/

Wonderful.

Tripping William
05-07-2015, 02:23 PM
Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/


Oh no he didn't... That's one of the funniest things I have ever read.


Wonderful.

Glad to see Christian is not resting on his laurels. Or is he? :D

MCFinARL
05-07-2015, 05:31 PM
Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/

Agreed. Also loved the writer's statement that Laettner "should get some credit for being an Internet troll before the Internet even existed."

szstark
05-07-2015, 05:38 PM
Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/

Absolutely perfect. He's now 11 for 11 from the floor. :)

ricks68
05-07-2015, 11:06 PM
If there was a way to spork Laettner, I'd give him all that I ever received, and all that I could ever give, for that one!:D:D

ricks

sbpollo
05-08-2015, 06:05 AM
The latest:http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e6091af2f6d83f7f7436b5adcf10f9450c0f542e/c=1-0-1022-768&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/2015/05/07/Louisville/Louisville/635666104533495511-Murphy-May-8.jpg.
It has been great fun since the NCAA title here in Louisville!

duke blue brewcrew
05-08-2015, 09:17 AM
Check out Laettner's tweeted response, which is just perfect.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/07/christian-laettner-just-became-an-issue-in-the-kentucky-governors-race/

You can't tweet a better response than this, absolutely priceless! Talk about a backfire...haha!

NashvilleDevil
05-01-2016, 08:41 AM
I Hate Christian Laettner was on this weekend and I got sucked into it. This time I found something that Andrew Bagwell said absolutely hysterical considering the recent developments with UNCheat. When the documentary was talking about Duke winning its first title, Bagwell said, and this won't be the exact quote, that he couldn't stand Duke because he felt they always got away with stuff. I laughed out loud at this considering what UNC basketball just got away with for the last 20+ years.

jipops
05-02-2016, 10:37 PM
I Hate Christian Laettner was on this weekend and I got sucked into it. This time I found something that Andrew Bagwell said absolutely hysterical considering the recent developments with UNCheat. When the documentary was talking about Duke winning its first title, Bagwell said, and this won't be the exact quote, that he couldn't stand Duke because he felt they always got away with stuff. I laughed out loud at this considering what UNC basketball just got away with for the last 20+ years.

Nobody comes off more unlikeable in that piece than Bagwell. It is simply not even close. Whiny, irrational, sick with envy...he is the perfect spokesperson for the entire uncCHeat fanbase.

Spanarkel
05-04-2016, 05:27 PM
everyone wants to be 'like Mike', even though he became a superstar (Air Jordan) only after going pro. His college career was good, not as great as everyone remembers.

Where would MJ be had he not panned out at Chicago.



Respectfully disagree with characterization of MJ's college career as "good, not as great as everyone remembers." Freshman year, MJ shared the court with consensus first team A-A and NBA no. 1 draft pick James Worthy and second-team A-A Sam Perkins(averaging 13.5ppg to Worthy's 15.6ppg, and if there had been a freshman A-A team around then Jordan would surely have made it), then Jordan and Perkins were consensus first team A-As the next two years. Jordan was Sporting News College Player of the Year as a soph(Sampson won all the other POTY awards for '82-'83), and consensus POTY as a junior. In Dean's system with one or more A-As on his team, even MJ just wasn't going to average stupendously high ppg numbers. I'm a die hard Duke fan and love the EK Board for its generally very fair assessments of rival players, but I think the exceptional should be given their due. A LOT of other fair minded observers feel that MJ's college years significantly exceeded "good."(I am NOT saying that MJ is the ACC's all-time great...)

jv001
05-04-2016, 07:31 PM
everyone wants to be 'like Mike', even though he became a superstar (Air Jordan) only after going pro. His college career was good, not as great as everyone remembers.

Where would MJ be had he not panned out at Chicago.



Respectfully disagree with characterization of MJ's college career as "good, not as great as everyone remembers." Freshman year, MJ shared the court with consensus first team A-A and NBA no. 1 draft pick James Worthy and second-team A-A Sam Perkins(averaging 13.5ppg to Worthy's 15.6ppg, and if there had been a freshman A-A team around then Jordan would surely have made it), then Jordan and Perkins were consensus first team A-As the next two years. Jordan was Sporting News College Player of the Year as a soph(Sampson won all the other POTY awards for '82-'83), and consensus POTY as a junior. In Dean's system with one or more A-As on his team, even MJ just wasn't going to average stupendously high ppg numbers. I'm a die hard Duke fan and love the EK Board for its generally very fair assessments of rival players, but I think the exceptional should be given their due. A LOT of other fair minded observers feel that MJ's college years significantly exceeded "good."(I am NOT saying that MJ is the ACC's all-time great...)

No, in my opinion, that would be Mr. David Thompson. Known to some as DT. However Jordan proved to be one of the greatest NBA players of all time. But I still don't like him. GoDuke!

Olympic Fan
05-04-2016, 08:31 PM
It always amazes me how hard it often is to categorize Jordan's college career.

Because of his NBA greatness, his college accomplishments DO get overrated by some. And others, trying to counteract that tendency, often go the other way and end up underrating Jordon the collegian.

He did have a great college career. But he was not one of the all-time greats (as a college player).

The best way I can categorize him is to compare him to Duke's Jason Williams.

Both played three years in college. Both played a key role (but were not the best player) on a national championship team. Both played for a No. 1 ranked team that came up short in the Sweet 16. Both played on three very good teams -- although on the whole, Jason's teams were slightly better, even though Jordan's teammates were slightly better (Perkins had a better pro career than Battier; Worthy was much better than Carrawell). Williams played on three ACC championship teams ... Jordan on just one.

Both had very good freshmen seasons -- Jason Williams was the top vote-getter for the ACC third team; Jordan probably would have been about the same, although the ACC didn't have a third team in 1982.

Both were consensus first-team All-Americas as sophomores ... and both won one major national player of the year award (Jordan was named by The Sporting News; Jason was named by the NABC -- the coaches)

Both were consensus national players of the year as juniors ...

Which was better?

Well, Jordan averaged 17.7 ppg for his UNC career. He added 5.0 rebounds and 1.8 assists; Jason averaged 19.3 ppg for his career. He added 3.7 rebounds and 6.0 assists.

And at the end of their college careers, Williams was drafted one spot higher (No. 2) than Jordan (No. 3).

I'd say that based on college performance alone, Jason Williams had a very, very slight edge on Jordan -- but their college careers were almost carbon copies of each other.

So I repeat -- Jordan had a great college career ... but let's not oversell it. The ACC alone has had quite a few players with more (college) career accomplishments.

And I agree -- Mr. Thompson is without debate the most accomplished ACC player.

diablesseblu
05-04-2016, 08:51 PM
from Olympic Fan:

"And I agree -- Mr. Thompson is without debate the most accomplished ACC player."

Was dating a NCSU PHd student during this time. Was blessed to see all of DT's games at Reynolds. Watching him play was an "other worldly" experience. One could hardly watch the full court for focusing solely on following him.

Since those were the "olden days" re: TV coverage (no iso, no videotape), when you watched him play, you left a game as a disciple. You wanted to spread the word that everyone should watch a State game on TV. He was that rare a talent.

subzero02
05-04-2016, 11:53 PM
In a Len Bias documentary done by ESPN, K said during his tenure in the ACC, the two best college players he has seen are Michael Jordan and Len Bias. I wasn't old enough to watch either player in college and comprehend what I was witnessing so I will defer to his opinion.

I will say that I think Jwill was the best player on our 2001 national championship team, even though it was definitely Battier's team.

Reisen
05-05-2016, 01:34 AM
I will say that I think Jwill was the best player on our 2001 national championship team, even though it was definitely Battier's team.

Agreed. I'm a huge Battier fan (had several classes with him), but I didn't even think this was up for debate.

Olympic Fan
05-05-2016, 01:36 PM
Agreed. I'm a huge Battier fan (had several classes with him), but I didn't even think this was up for debate.

Absolutely, totally, emphatically disagree. I think there is no question that Battier was the best player on the 2001 team.

Oh, it was close offensively and if that was the total measure, then Williams might have had a slight edge -- his 21.6 ppg were slightly better than Battier's 19.9 ppg.

Their shooting percentage were very similar, except from the FT line, where Battier was MUCH better (79.6 to 65.9). Williams did have a lot more more assists, but Battier had a lot more rebounds -- reflecting the different roles they played.

So offensively, I'd be willing to give Williams a slight, slight edge in 2001.

But any Duke fan should know that offense is not the entire game. Battier was the best defensive player in the nation in 2001 and one of the 2 or 3 best defenders in modern basketball history. Williams was not a bad defender, but he did not even make the ACC coaches' All-ACC Defensive Team. Battier was the NABC National Defensive Player of the Year,.

He was also the consensus National Player of the Year overall, winning every major award, except the NABC Award (which went to Williams).

Battier was clearly the leader of the 2001 team (co-captain, along with Nate). He was the key player in the key games -- the reason he was the Final Four MVP. He also won the Case Award that season as the ACC Tournament MVP. In an inexplicable vote, he shared the ACC Player of the Year Award with UNC's Joe Forte (but ahead of Williams).

So, I agree that it's not up for debate -- Shane Battier was the best player on the 2001 team.

rsvman
05-05-2016, 03:13 PM
What Oly said.

Bay Area Duke Fan
05-05-2016, 03:49 PM
And I agree -- Mr. Thompson is without debate the most accomplished ACC player.

To the extent you consider team success in the NCAA tournament as an indication of a great player's accomplishments, a very good case can be made for naming Christian Laettner the most accomplished ACC player.

jv001
05-05-2016, 08:25 PM
To the extent you consider team success in the NCAA tournament as an indication of a great player's accomplishments, a very good case can be made for naming Christian Laettner the most accomplished ACC player.

My eye test only but I think Christian was the 2nd best ACC player right behind DT. GoDuke!

Tom B.
05-06-2016, 01:05 PM
To the extent you consider team success in the NCAA tournament as an indication of a great player's accomplishments, a very good case can be made for naming Christian Laettner the most accomplished ACC player.

Keep in mind that N.C. State went undefeated in 1972-73, and David Thompson may well have added a second national championship to his record if State hadn't been on probation and barred from the NCAA Tournament that season.

Olympic Fan
05-06-2016, 01:48 PM
As for Thompson vs. Laettner ...

Laettner clearly had more NCAA opportunities -- four chances to Thompson's one.

That said, his NCAA accomplishments make Laettner one of the two greatest tournament performers in NCAA history. He's the first (and still only) player to start on four Final Four teams. He brought home two titles. He was the Final Four MVP once. He scored more points than any player in the NCAA Tournament history. Of course, he also played more NCAA Tournament games than any other player (except his Duke classmate, Brian Davis). He hit two of the five most famous shots in tournament history.

The only player who can make a better NCAA case might be Lew Alcindor (as he was known then), who led his team to three national titles and was the Final Four MVP all three times.

Thompson's NCAA resume is not bad -- he was 4-0 in NCAA Tournament play. He won one NCAA title (beating a UCLA team that had won even straight titles and included five future NBA all-stars) in the semifinals. Like Laettner, he won one Final Four MVP award.

But while NCAA performance is important, it's not the only thing that counts in a player's career.

Laettner was a three-time All-American, but only a consensus first teamer in 1992, when he was also the consensus national player of the year. Thompson was a three-time consensus first-team All-American. As a junior in 1974, he beat out defending NPOY Bill Walton for two major NPOY awards ... as a senior, he was the unanimous player of the year. Thompson was the three-time ACC player of the year and three-time unanimous first-team All-ACC. Laettner was ACC player of the year once and finished second once.

Laettner averaged 16.6 points and 7.8 rebounds for his career. Thompson averaged 26.8 ppg and 8.1 rebounds (as a 6-4 wing player) for his career. And that's without a 3-point shot.

Thompson was the No. 1 pick in both the NBA and ABA drafts -- he averaged 25 ppg in his first six seasons (one in the ABA, five in the NBA) before he succumbed to drugs.

He also beat Dr. J head-to-head in the last ABA dunk contest.

Christian Laettner was a GREAT player and his record of play in the NCAA Tournament makes him one of the top players in ACC history. But DT was THE top player in ACC history.

Dukeford
05-06-2016, 07:19 PM
He also beat Dr. J head-to-head in the last ABA dunk contest.



Nope.
Dr. J won that dunk contest.
That contest was when he performed the legendary taking flight from the free throw line dunk.

Edouble
05-06-2016, 07:39 PM
As for Thompson vs. Laettner ...

Laettner clearly had more NCAA opportunities -- four chances to Thompson's one.

That said, his NCAA accomplishments make Laettner one of the two greatest tournament performers in NCAA history. He's the first (and still only) player to start on four Final Four teams. He brought home two titles. He was the Final Four MVP once. He scored more points than any player in the NCAA Tournament history. Of course, he also played more NCAA Tournament games than any other player (except his Duke classmate, Brian Davis). He hit two of the five most famous shots in tournament history.

The only player who can make a better NCAA case might be Lew Alcindor (as he was known then), who led his team to three national titles and was the Final Four MVP all three times.

Thompson's NCAA resume is not bad -- he was 4-0 in NCAA Tournament play. He won one NCAA title (beating a UCLA team that had won even straight titles and included five future NBA all-stars) in the semifinals. Like Laettner, he won one Final Four MVP award.

But while NCAA performance is important, it's not the only thing that counts in a player's career.

Laettner was a three-time All-American, but only a consensus first teamer in 1992, when he was also the consensus national player of the year. Thompson was a three-time consensus first-team All-American. As a junior in 1974, he beat out defending NPOY Bill Walton for two major NPOY awards ... as a senior, he was the unanimous player of the year. Thompson was the three-time ACC player of the year and three-time unanimous first-team All-ACC. Laettner was ACC player of the year once and finished second once.

Laettner averaged 16.6 points and 7.8 rebounds for his career. Thompson averaged 26.8 ppg and 8.1 rebounds (as a 6-4 wing player) for his career. And that's without a 3-point shot.

Thompson was the No. 1 pick in both the NBA and ABA drafts -- he averaged 25 ppg in his first six seasons (one in the ABA, five in the NBA) before he succumbed to drugs.

He also beat Dr. J head-to-head in the last ABA dunk contest.

Christian Laettner was a GREAT player and his record of play in the NCAA Tournament makes him one of the top players in ACC history. But DT was THE top player in ACC history.

This deserves its own thread. I'm not sure that the UConn shot makes it into the top five of all time though. I'd put these four ahead of the UConn shot:

Lorenzo Charles' put back (buzzer beater to win championship game)
Kris Jenkins' three (buzzer beater to win championship game)
Mario Chalmers' three (end of regulation to force OT in championship game)
Tyus Edney coast to coast (buzzer beater to avoid first round upset, UCLA goes on to win the championship)

Laettner's shot against Kentucky is, of course, still #1.

brevity
05-06-2016, 08:11 PM
This deserves its own thread. I'm not sure that the UConn shot makes it into the top five of all time though. I'd put these four ahead of the UConn shot:

Lorenzo Charles' put back (buzzer beater to win championship game)
Kris Jenkins' three (buzzer beater to win championship game)
Mario Chalmers' three (end of regulation to force OT in championship game)
Tyus Edney coast to coast (buzzer beater to avoid first round upset, UCLA goes on to win the championship)

Laettner's shot against Kentucky is, of course, still #1.

And maybe a separate thread about best NCAA Tournament clutch shots in a losing effort. Might even merit a poll: Marcus Paige in 2016 or Sean Woods in 1992?

Olympic Fan
05-06-2016, 09:25 PM
Nope.
Dr. J won that dunk contest.
That contest was when he performed the legendary taking flight from the free throw line dunk.

You are right ... I don't know what I waa thinking of ... maybe I had the dunk contest conflated in my mind with the fact that Thompson did win the All-Star MVP Award that day.

While looking it up, I found this on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJZaULiWf-4

It's 44 minutes long, but it does do a good job of summing up Thompson's impact on the game.

It also got me thinking about how unlucky he was with timing. If he had been born one year earlier, he would have been on the 1972 Olympic team and we wouldn't have lost to the Russians (two years later, Thompson led a much weaker US team to Moscow for the World University Games and beat almost the same Russian national team by more than 20 ... in Moscow). If he had been born one year later, he would have been able to play as a freshman (he was in the last class that was not eligible for varsity ball as a freshman -- even though Fred Shaus, who coached Jerry West at West Virginia, famously said hat Thompson was better as a freshman than West was as a senior.

Tom B.
05-06-2016, 11:41 PM
This deserves its own thread. I'm not sure that the UConn shot makes it into the top five of all time though. I'd put these four ahead of the UConn shot:

Lorenzo Charles' put back (buzzer beater to win championship game)
Kris Jenkins' three (buzzer beater to win championship game)
Mario Chalmers' three (end of regulation to force OT in championship game)
Tyus Edney coast to coast (buzzer beater to avoid first round upset, UCLA goes on to win the championship)

Laettner's shot against Kentucky is, of course, still #1.

If the standard is "most famous" shots, then we also have to talk about:

-Keith Smart's game-winner against Syracuse in the 1987 title game;
-Michael Jordan's game-winner against Georgetown in the 1982 title game (I discount this one somewhat because Georgetown still had 15 seconds and had not one, but two chances to win the game after the shot -- but there's no doubting that the shot is among the most famous);
-Bryce Drew's game-winner against Mississippi in 1998;
-Danny Ainge's coast-to-coast game-winner against Notre Dame in 1981;
-U.S. Reed's halfcourt game-winner against Louisville in 1981 (this one has a Duke tie-in -- the player who hit the shot to give Louisville a one-point lead with five seconds left, before Reed won it at the buzzer for Arkansas, was Derek Smith, father of Nolan Smith); and
-Tate George's buzzer-beater against Clemson in 1990 (which set up the Duke-UConn matchup in the regional final, which Duke won on Laettner's buzzer-beater).

There may be others, but these are the ones I came up with off the top of my head.

Newton_14
05-07-2016, 12:21 AM
It always amazes me how hard it often is to categorize Jordan's college career.

Because of his NBA greatness, his college accomplishments DO get overrated by some. And others, trying to counteract that tendency, often go the other way and end up underrating Jordon the collegian.

He did have a great college career. But he was not one of the all-time greats (as a college player).

The best way I can categorize him is to compare him to Duke's Jason Williams.

Both played three years in college. Both played a key role (but were not the best player) on a national championship team. Both played for a No. 1 ranked team that came up short in the Sweet 16. Both played on three very good teams -- although on the whole, Jason's teams were slightly better, even though Jordan's teammates were slightly better (Perkins had a better pro career than Battier; Worthy was much better than Carrawell). Williams played on three ACC championship teams ... Jordan on just one.

Both had very good freshmen seasons -- Jason Williams was the top vote-getter for the ACC third team; Jordan probably would have been about the same, although the ACC didn't have a third team in 1982.

Both were consensus first-team All-Americas as sophomores ... and both won one major national player of the year award (Jordan was named by The Sporting News; Jason was named by the NABC -- the coaches)

Both were consensus national players of the year as juniors ...

Which was better?

Well, Jordan averaged 17.7 ppg for his UNC career. He added 5.0 rebounds and 1.8 assists; Jason averaged 19.3 ppg for his career. He added 3.7 rebounds and 6.0 assists.

And at the end of their college careers, Williams was drafted one spot higher (No. 2) than Jordan (No. 3).

I'd say that based on college performance alone, Jason Williams had a very, very slight edge on Jordan -- but their college careers were almost carbon copies of each other.

So I repeat -- Jordan had a great college career ... but let's not oversell it. The ACC alone has had quite a few players with more (college) career accomplishments.

And I agree -- Mr. Thompson is without debate the most accomplished ACC player.

Great post. That is a really good comparison (the best I have ever seen argued in my view) and it is uncanny how similar their careers were. Thanks for that.

And agree 1000% on David Thompson. I have been watching ACC Hoops religiously since 1973-74-ish, and DT is hands down the greatest ACC and College player I have ever seen play. (I was too young to witness Alcinder play). There just isn't a debate to be had on the ACC part of that statement.

I have always argued too, that Ralph Sampson is the greatest ACC Center I have ever seen in the defined time period. ANd Laettner is by far the most accomplished ACC Player in history. His resume just can't be matched. It's a darn shame we did not finish the game in 94 or Grant would have a say in that argument too.

We have been tremendously blessed, first as ACC Fans, and second as Duke fans.

Olympic Fan
05-07-2016, 12:51 AM
If the standard is "most famous" shots, then we also have to talk about:

-Keith Smart's game-winner against Syracuse in the 1987 title game;
-Michael Jordan's game-winner against Georgetown in the 1982 title game (I discount this one somewhat because Georgetown still had 15 seconds and had not one, but two chances to win the game after the shot -- but there's no doubting that the shot is among the most famous);
-Bryce Drew's game-winner against Mississippi in 1998;
-Danny Ainge's coast-to-coast game-winner against Notre Dame in 1981;
-U.S. Reed's halfcourt game-winner against Louisville in 1981 (this one has a Duke tie-in -- the player who hit the shot to give Louisville a one-point lead with five seconds left, before Reed won it at the buzzer for Arkansas, was Derek Smith, father of Nolan Smith); and
-Tate George's buzzer-beater against Clemson in 1990 (which set up the Duke-UConn matchup in the regional final, which Duke won on Laettner's buzzer-beater).

There may be others, but these are the ones I came up with off the top of my head.

USA Today did a poll of the 15 most famous buzzer beaters in history last month, before the start of the 2016 tournament (which had two or three candidates):

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/03/the-15-greatest-buzzer-beaters-in-ncaa-tournament-history-christian-laettner-duke-bryce-drew

Laettner comes in at No. 1 (Kentucky '92) and No. 6 (UConn '90)

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-13-2021, 09:12 AM
Listened to XM College Basketball this morning. This show is always dominated by KY fans and their greatest fear (repeated by several) is Duke ruining their perfect season. It'll sad if Wisconsin or UVA end their season, but if its Duke, many lives will be ruined.

This comment aged well a few weeks later.

brevity
04-13-2021, 09:36 AM
Wow, bringing it back almost 5 years later. Sometimes I get the feeling that Christian Laettner lives rent free in our heads as well.


And maybe a separate thread about best NCAA Tournament clutch shots in a losing effort. Might even merit a poll: Marcus Paige in 2016 or Sean Woods in 1992?

Gotta add Johnny Juzang 2021 to this very short list.

pfrduke
04-13-2021, 02:40 PM
Wow, bringing it back almost 5 years later. Sometimes I get the feeling that Christian Laettner lives rent free in our heads as well.



Gotta add Johnny Juzang 2021 to this very short list.

And Alex Reese from the Alabama-UCLA Sweet 16 game (although not quite as memorable - I couldn't have told you it was Alex Reese without looking it up, and had initially written "the guy from Alabama").

jv001
04-13-2021, 05:14 PM
Wow, bringing it back almost 5 years later. Sometimes I get the feeling that Christian Laettner lives rent free in our heads as well.



Gotta add Johnny Juzang 2021 to this very short list.

Suggs hit a pretty good shot as well but he had to bank it in.

GoDuke!

weezie
04-14-2021, 05:46 PM
Wow, bringing it back almost 5 years later. Sometimes I get the feeling that Christian Laettner lives rent free in our heads as well...


He's more than welcome.