This Week in the ACC: 11/17-11/23

[pfrduke]

Opening weekend was a big improvement over last season. Only BC lost (to a pretty good UMass team) and while there were minimal other games against legit opponents, a) at least the conference won those other games and b) nobody had the embarrassing upset loss that has plagued the ACC in the early season in years past.

Now, we're already into pre-season tournament time! By the end of this week, 6 pre-season tournaments that involve ACC teams will have crowned a champion. Last year, Duke lost its first pre-season tournament since the 2006-07 season, but Pitt, Syracuse, Virginia, North Carolina, and Maryland all won their contests (with Clemson and Duke also making their respective finals), which was the ACC's best performance in years.

This year, 12 of the 15 teams play in exempt tournaments - Louisville, NCSU and Wake Forest are out.*

*Each school plays in exempt "events" that I refuse to count as tournaments. They're basically just normal non-conference games.

Let's see what's on tap for a busy week ahead - apologies for the light analysis but I'm a little short on time this week:

Monday starts with a big road game in Florida. Miami is a bit of an unknown quantity given how many new people are on the roster, but a statement win in the O-Dome would be a nice way to announce their presence.

[55]Miami at [7]Florida (ESPNU, 7:00)
[2]Louisville hosts [291]Jacksonville State (7:00)
[70]Clemson hosts [212]Winthrop (ESPN3, 7:00)
[60]NC State hosts [243]Hofstra (7:00)
[105]Wake Forest at [203]Tulane (8:00)

Tuesday is the fourth annual incarnation of the Champions Classic. Duke-Michigan State definitely feels like the undercard this year (and not just because it's the early game) given the hype surrounding Kentucky and (to a lesser degree) Kansas, but it will be exciting to see how the team that romped over Presbyterian and Fairfield will fare against more legitimate competition. Not a road game, but Indy will definitely be weighted to the Big Teneleventwelvethirteenfourteen.

[1]Duke vs. [17]Michigan State in Indianapolis (ESPN, 7:00)
[8]Virginia hosts [341]South Carolina State (ESPN3, 7:00)
[89]Georgia Tech hosts [339]Alabama A&M (7:00)
[41]Florida State hosts [98]Northeastern (7:00)


Wednesday puts Wake on the road against Arkansas, which basically played Top 25-caliber basketball at home last season and has definite tournament aspirations this year. A big early test for Manning and the Deacs.

[57]Notre Dame hosts [316]Coppin State (7:00)
[160]Virginia Tech hosts [283]Liberty (7:00)
[105]Wake Forest at [47]Arkansas (SECN, 9:00)

Thursday is tourney time! Events in Charleston, Puerto Rico, and New York get started, featuring Miami, Boston College, and Syracuse respectively. The Orange get a Cal team that it played in the Maui Invitational last season - I think Cal is hoping that wherever it ends up next year, it doesn't play Syracuse.

[55]Miami vs. [161]Drexel in Charleston (ESPNU, 3:00)
[145]Boston College vs. [54]New Mexico in San Juan (ESPN2, 5:00)
[60]NC State hosts [334]Jacksonville (ESPN3, 7:00)
[11]Syracuse vs. [67]California in New York (ESPN2, 9:00)

Friday gets two more pre-season tournaments started - Duke in Brooklyn and Clemson in St. Thomas - plus crowns the first champion in Manhattan.

[70]Clemson vs. [232]Gardner-Webb in St. Thomas (1:30)
[8]Virginia hosts [42]George Washington (7:00)
[89]Georgia Tech vs. [218]Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne in Orlando (7:00)
[105]Wake Forest hosts [74]Iona (8:30)
[2]Louisville hosts [206]Marshall (ESPNU, 9:00)
[1]Duke vs. [111]Temple in Brooklyn (TruTv, 9:30)
[30]Pittsburgh at [152]Hawaii (midnight)
[11]Syracuse vs. [13]Texas/[27]Iowa in New York (TBD)
[145]Boston College vs. [46]West Virginia/[183]George Mason in San Juan (TBD)
[55]Miami vs. [179]USC/[184]Akron in Charleston (TBD)

Saturday crowns a champion in Brooklyn and tips off action in the Hall of Fame (which has been rendered somewhat of a non-tournament because conference rivals ended up getting scheduled into it).

[57]Notre Dame vs. [72]Massachusetts in Uncasville (12:00)
[160]Virginia Tech hosts [317]Appalachian State (1:00)
[20]North Carolina vs. [139]Davidson in Charlotte (2:00)
[41]Florida State vs. [61]Providence in Uncasville (2:30)
[1]Duke vs. [52]Stanford/[94]UNLV in Brooklyn (TruTv, TBD)
[70]Clemson vs. [75]Seton Hall/[174]Nevada in St. Thomas (TBD)*

*Clemson plays Sunday if it wins Friday, but plays Saturday if it loses Friday

Sunday wraps up the Hall of Fame, crowns champions in Puerto Rico and Charleston, and continues tournament play elsewhere.

[41]Florida State vs. [72]Massachusetts in Uncasville (ESPNU, 12:00)
[57]Notre Dame vs. [61]Providence in Uncasville (ESPN2, 2:30)
[60]NC State hosts [163]South Florida (ESPNU, 4:00)
[145]Boston College vs. TBD in San Juan [will update after Friday]
[55]Miami vs. TBD in Charleston [will update after Friday]
*See note above re Clemson

ACC Non-Conference Record: 21-1
ACC Record vs. BCS:* 2-0
America East: 2-0
Atlantic Sun: 1-0
Atlantic Ten: 0-1
Big South: 2-0
B1G Ten: 1-0
Colonial: 1-0
MAAC: 3-0
MEAC: 6-0
Northeast: 1-0
Patriot: 1-0
SEC: 1-0
Southern: 1-0
SWAC: 1-0

*as last year, both the AAC and the Big East are being counted as among the BCS conferences. And yes, BCS is now a completely outdated reference derived from an entirely separate sport, but it's handy shorthand.

[AncientPsychicT]

Virginia Tech's home loss to USC Upstate was the first round of the Coaches vs. Cancer. That loss will not prevent the Hokies from traveling to Brooklyn to get housed by Michigan State in a couple weeks.

Is that a copy-paste from last season? VT is undefeated and doesn't play USC Upstate this year, and aren't we in the Coaches vs. Cancer?

[devildeac]

Is that a copy-paste from last season? VT is undefeated and doesn't play USC Upstate this year, and aren't we in the Coaches vs. Cancer?

Even if it is self-plagiarized, Deborah Crowder would give pfrduke an A- on it.:eek:

(Seriously, thanks to pfrduke for updating us!)

[pfrduke]

Is that a copy-paste from last season? VT is undefeated and doesn't play USC Upstate this year, and aren't we in the Coaches vs. Cancer?

Bah, yes. Fixed now.

[Olympic Fan]

I spent a lot of the day Sunday watching basketball and trying to catch up with what happened Friday and Saturday.

The ACC opened 21-1, but it's nothing to cheer about -- most of the victims were patsies.

The games that made an impression on me, good and bad. Start with the good:

- Louisville beat a legit Big Ten team (one picked in the first half of the league) on a neutral court in Puerto Rico. Harrell, who had a career high 30, looks ready to assume a starring role.
- Georgia Tech beat Georgia in the Thrillerdome. Georgia is decent -- again projected in the top half of the SEC. The big difference is that the SEC has just two good teams. Soph Quentin Stephens went off for the Jackets and Charles Mitchell, the transfer from Maryland, was a monster for them.
- Notre Dame's Sunday victory over Navy -- 40 points over a team that lost to Michigan State by five points (and never trailed by more than eight) on Friday. I know the MSU game was in Annapolis, while the ND game was in South Bend, but still that's impressive.
- Virginia did what few ACC teams -- they went on the road to open the season. James Madison is rebuilding, but still a nice solid win.
- UNC's victory over Robert Morris Sunday. Robert Morris has just two starters back from last year's NIT team, but they are favored in the NE Conference and UNC absolutely smoked them

The bad:
-- Pitt's 63-56 victory over Samford -- it was a 3-poin game with 30 seconds to play -- was awful. Samford is coming off a terrible season and is picked dead last in the Southern Conference this season.
-- North Carolina's ugly opening game win over NCCU. I know UNC apologists try to point out how good NCCU was last year -- they beat NC State in Raleigh and made the NCAA -- but this isn't that team. They have one starter back and depend on a ton of transfers. Because of injuries and illness, the starters against UNC never played together in preseason. Their point guard was never on the floor at all in preseason. And even the coach was absent the week leading up to the game due to a death in his family. Struggling past this team was a poor showing by UNC (but, as noted, they made up for it Sunday against Robert Morris).
-- My first impressive was that it wasn't so bad that FSU struggled against Manhattan before finally winning by 15. Manhattan won 25 games and played in the NCAA a year ago. But then I checked and this is a rebuilding team. Just two starters back. Not a BAD win for FSU, but a little worrisome.

I watched most of the only ACC loss - UMass beating BC. Not a terrible showing by the Eagles -- thy led by eight at the half, but were blitzed in the first five minutes of the second half, but a strong, veteran team. The ACC will get two more chances at the Minutemen this week as FSU and Notre Dame play them in Springfield.

Some big time games coming up this week, starting with tonight's Miami at Florida tussle.

[AncientPsychicT]

The ACC collectively had both its best win and worst loss today, as Miami knocked off Florida in Gainesville while Clemson lost at home to Winthrop. UM looks better than expected, although that's not much of a surprise as Larranaga is a very good coach. Clemson, on the other hand, is shaping up to have yet another forgettable season.

[Newton_14]

Bah, yes. Fixed now.

It's all good and though I gave you trident points I wanted to publically thank you for this. Folks, things like this is what goes in to making DBR a great site. It takes a tremendous amount of work to pull all this together and PFR does it each season without fail. I for one get a lot of value from is as it helps me keep up with each ACC team and their weekly games. Huge benefit to major props to PFR for putting in the work. It's greatly appreciated.


On another note, if anyone wants to volunteer to capture and post the +/- for each lineup & player game by game, I will post it in a sticky thread at the top of the EK throughout the season like Jumbo used to do. I always enjoyed that thread as well but with my job and family duties there is just no way I can do it. If anyone is interested in giving it a shot please shoot me a pm. Thanks!

[ice-9]

The ACC collectively had both its best win and worst loss today, as Miami knocked off Florida in Gainesville while Clemson lost at home to Winthrop. UM looks better than expected, although that's not much of a surprise as Larranaga is a very good coach. Clemson, on the other hand, is shaping up to have yet another forgettable season.

The Miami win is far better than the Clemson loss IMO.

Clemson probably won't make the NCAA tournament this year anyway, even if it beat Winthrop.

With the Florida win, Miami just might if it can continue the momentum.

[AncientPsychicT]

The Miami win is far better than the Clemson loss IMO.

Clemson probably won't make the NCAA tournament this year anyway, even if it beat Winthrop.

With the Florida win, Miami just might if it can continue the momentum.

I absolutely agree with you. Still, that doesn't mean Clemson's loss isn't the worst loss for the ACC so far this season (considering the ACC only has 2 losses, it shouldn't be all that surprising :D).

[Olympic Fan]

Huge victory on the road for Miami -- even if Florida was a bit short-handed. It's the kind of game the ACC can use to build the case that it's the strongest conference -- if the mid-level teams continue to get that kind of win and the top teams live up to the hype.

We're going to need it because there are some teams at the bottom that flat out stink -- BC, VPI for sure ... maybe Clemson. That was a terrible loss at home to a Winthrop team that is not projected to be that good. I watched most of it and the Tigers were just horrible.

Don't overlook Wake's win tonight ... they went on the road and routed a decent Tulane team 71-49.

That's Wake, Miami and Georgia Tech, which should be near the lower end of the ACC, that have good OOC wins so far.

It's early, but it's a very good start for the ACC (25-2 so far).

[pfrduke]

BC got a really nice win over New Mexico earlier today, and Miami just wiped the floor with Drexel - I agree with the guy calling the game that Miami likely will be ranked in the top 25 if they win their tournament (even with a relatively non-imposing field).

Cuse got housed by Cal, though. I guess Ennis, Fair, and Grant are not so easily replaced.

[Ultrarunner]

And down goes the Orange. By a bunch, which tends to happen when you can't put the ball in the hoop.

[pfrduke]

Clemson Chris Webber'd themselves a loss tonight, because Clemson. Miami continues to roll and will take on Charlotte in the Charleston Classic final (in an interesting scheduling quirk, they'll play a scheduled road game at Charlotte early next week). Wake and BC suffered tough, but close, losses, while Syracuse got a nice bounce back win over Iowa.

Here's the updated weekend lineup:

Saturday crowns a champion in Brooklyn and tips off action in the Hall of Fame (which has been rendered somewhat of a non-tournament because conference rivals ended up getting scheduled into it).

[57]Notre Dame vs. [72]Massachusetts in Uncasville (12:00)
[160]Virginia Tech hosts [317]Appalachian State (1:00)
[20]North Carolina vs. [139]Davidson in Charlotte (2:00)
[41]Florida State vs. [61]Providence in Uncasville (2:30)
[1]Duke vs. [52]Stanford (TruTv, TBD)
[70]Clemson vs. [174]Nevada in St. Thomas (2:30)

Sunday wraps up the Hall of Fame, crowns champions in Puerto Rico and Charleston, and continues tournament play elsewhere.

[41]Florida State vs. [72]Massachusetts in Uncasville (ESPNU, 12:00)
[57]Notre Dame vs. [61]Providence in Uncasville, CT (ESPN2, 2:30)
[60]NC State hosts [163]South Florida (ESPNU, 4:00)
[145]Boston College vs. [60]Dayton in San Juan (ESPN2, 4:30)*
[55]Miami vs. [78]Charlotte in Charleston (ESPN2, 9:00)*

*Dayton and Charlotte rankings as of time of posting. Miami has moved up to 24 since the beginning of the week; BC has moved up to 128.

[Olympic Fan]

Stayed up late to see if Pitt could rally past Hawaii. Ugh.

Really bad showing by the Panthers ... and coupled with a very lackluster home win vs. Samford, you have to think the Panthers are in trouble.

Obviously, Miami is exceeding expectations early -- if they beat Charlotte Sunday, I could see them replacing Syracuse at the bottom of the top 25.

But I've also been impressed with Georgia Tech. They are not contenders or even contenders to be ranked, but their body of work looks more like a middle-echelon ACC team and not a lower echelon team (which I expected).

BC has also played better than expected -- good win over Noodles Neal and New Mexico and credible losses to UMass and West Virginia. They're still going to finish in the bottom 2-3 of the ACC, but they are better than expected ... and maybe better than last year (even without Ryan Anderson).

I thought for awhile that Danny Manning had Wake on an upward swing. That lopsided win at a decent Tulane team was a good one for the Deacs. But they followed it by a horrid loss at Arkansas and a disappointing home loss to Iona. Not sure where they are going.

Hard to believe that Clemson has four starters back from a team that barely missed the NCAA Tournament a year ago. Two terrible losses and both followed the same pattern -- Clemson led most of the second half, occasionally by comfortable margins. In both cases, the veteran Tigers totally botched the end game. The extra time out Friday got the headlines, but the real head-scratcher was how -- with a 3-point lead -- they give up an open 3 with like six seconds left to tie the score.

PS Notre Dame hasn't beaten anybody of note, but the Irish are winning very impressively vs. teams they should beat. I'll be interested in how they do against UMass today and Providence tomorrow. If they are still unbeaten Sunday night, they might be in line to be in the top 25.

[Henderson]

Florida State is looking horrible against Providence. Losing by a palindrome, 13-31. No effort, poor execution.

[Olympic Fan]

Va Tech loses at home in the final seconds to App State.

Notre Dame did look good in beating UMass.

And Clemson suddenly woke up -- up 15 on Nevada at the half.

Agree, FSU looks awful.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Interesting scheduling quirk.

Miami plays Charlotte in Charleston in the final of whatever tournament they're in. And then on Tuesday they travel to Charlotte to play Charlotte again for the 2nd time in 3 nights.

I've never seen back-to-back games between the same two teams in college basketball before. It happens in the NBA on occcasion (e.g., Miami and Orlando seem to play a home-and-home on back-to-back nights every once in a while).

[TruBlu]

Interesting scheduling quirk.

Miami plays Charlotte in Charleston in the final of whatever tournament they're in. And then on Tuesday they travel to Charlotte to play Charlotte again for the 2nd time in 3 nights.

I've never seen back-to-back games between the same two teams in college basketball before. It happens in the NBA on occcasion (e.g., Miami and Orlando seem to play a home-and-home on back-to-back nights every once in a while).

Duke & UCLA scheduled back to back games twice in the mid 60's: One set in North Carolina with the first game at Duke, and the next night in Charlotte* (Duke won both handily); One set in California with a similar format (I have erased the results from my memory bank).

*I was able as a teenager to score tickets for the game in Charlotte, and took my dad (a life-long Duke fan) to our first ever Duke basketball game. I had never seen my dad so excited.