Semi and the 3

[Eakane]

If Semi makes the rotation, or comes in if/when Okafor/Jefferson/Plumlee are in foul trouble, does he have the green light to take 3's? Seemed that way against Fairfield, He seems to have a decent stroke. From Ferry, to Christian, to G.Hill, to Battier to Kelly, Duke has a long line of "bigs" who can knock down the three. It's an incredible advantage. If Semi is going to play the stretch 4, it's be nice to know that the defender cannot afford to sag off to double Okafor without paying the price.

[MChambers]

If Semi makes the rotation, or comes in if/when Okafor/Jefferson/Plumlee are in foul trouble, does he have the green light to take 3's? Seemed that way against Fairfield, He seems to have a decent stroke. From Ferry, to Christian, to G.Hill, to Battier to Kelly, Duke has a long line of "bigs" who can knock down the three. It's an incredible advantage. If Semi is going to play the stretch 4, it's be nice to know that the defender cannot afford to sag off to double Okafor without paying the price.

He's taken 11 in the first two games, and he took a few last year. I'd say he has the green light, and Coach K has always encouraged his players to shoot good 3s. Let's hope Semi pulls his percentage up to the 35% range.

[uh_no]

He's taken 11 in the first two games, and he took a few last year. I'd say he has the green light, and Coach K has always encouraged his players to shoot good 3s. Let's hope Semi pulls his percentage up to the 35% range.

well, he's not going to rival plumthree numbers, but I bet he can knock a few down.

[tommy]

If Semi makes the rotation, or comes in if/when Okafor/Jefferson/Plumlee are in foul trouble, does he have the green light to take 3's? Seemed that way against Fairfield, He seems to have a decent stroke. From Ferry, to Christian, to G.Hill, to Battier to Kelly, Duke has a long line of "bigs" who can knock down the three. It's an incredible advantage. If Semi is going to play the stretch 4, it's be nice to know that the defender cannot afford to sag off to double Okafor without paying the price.

If you can't hit the outside jumpshot, then you're not really a stretch-4 to begin with. :)

[Saratoga2]

If you can't hit the outside jumpshot, then you're not really a stretch-4 to begin with. :)

I am a little surprised that such an athletic and strong guy would cloose to shoot 3's and not have an inside game with close in shoots and dunks. Has he taken shots other than 3's. The game play by play record doesn't mention any.

[Duvall]

I am a little surprised that such an athletic and strong guy would cloose to shoot 3's and not have an inside game with close in shoots and dunks. Has he taken shots other than 3's. The game play by play record doesn't mention any.

Think he's had several two-point attempts on which he was fouled (which aren't recorded as FG attempts), but I would have to check.

[Dukehky]

I think that shooting the 3 is Semi's most useful offensive weapon at this point in his development. His ball handling isn't really good enough to be a slasher and it doesn't appear that he has harnessed his brute force well enough to take smaller players down on the block. But Semi can shoot, and K has shown that if you have a skill that can help the team, that's what you're going to do.

I'm good with Semi shooting open 3's, it's the contested ones I'm not really comfortable with, but I think with more playing time his shot selection will improve. The thing with Semi that I would really like to see is his crashing both the offensive and defensive glass with absolute ferociousness. Jack up 3's all you want, but earn it with rebounding. You are a freak man, jump up and go get the ball. Kenneth Faried can shoot occasional bad shots and no one cares because he rebounds like a mad man. I would love to see Semi attempt to rebound like that, STRONG. But I think most of the shots Semi takes are going in, which is a good feeling.

[Edouble]

If Semi makes the rotation, or comes in if/when Okafor/Jefferson/Plumlee are in foul trouble, does he have the green light to take 3's? Seemed that way against Fairfield, He seems to have a decent stroke. From Ferry, to Christian, to G.Hill, to Battier to Kelly, Duke has a long line of "bigs" who can knock down the three. It's an incredible advantage. If Semi is going to play the stretch 4, it's be nice to know that the defender cannot afford to sag off to double Okafor without paying the price.

I would add Winslow to this list as well, as Justise has slid over to the 4 spot a few times in the first few games. As I posted in another thread, we actually played a lineup of 4 guards and a big in the Fairfield game for a bit of time (Tyus, Matt, Grayson, Rasheed, and Marshall). That does not bode well for Semi, if Coach K thinks that we can go with four guards from time to time.

Semi is 3-11 for 3s, and it's not my favorite shot that I have seen the team take. If Semi is not shooting 35%+ on 3s and I'm an opposing coach, I'll double Jahlil and risk letting Semi bomb away. Then I have two rebounders under the boards if he misses.

He has gone to the line on a few 2 point attempts.


I think that shooting the 3 is Semi's most useful offensive weapon at this point in his development. His ball handling isn't really good enough to be a slasher and it doesn't appear that he has harnessed his brute force well enough to take smaller players down on the block. But Semi can shoot, and K has shown that if you have a skill that can help the team, that's what you're going to do.

I'm good with Semi shooting open 3's, it's the contested ones I'm not really comfortable with, but I think with more playing time his shot selection will improve. The thing with Semi that I would really like to see is his crashing both the offensive and defensive glass with absolute ferociousness. Jack up 3's all you want, but earn it with rebounding. You are a freak man, jump up and go get the ball. Kenneth Faried can shoot occasional bad shots and no one cares because he rebounds like a mad man. I would love to see Semi attempt to rebound like that, STRONG. But I think most of the shots Semi takes are going in, which is a good feeling.

I agree that I would love to see Semi crash the glass. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would think that harnessing his brute force would be an aspect to his game that he would bring in from high school. With the competition that he played against pre-college, I would think that he was throwing his weight around a lot.

[jimsumner]

He did get to the rim off his dribble one time against Fairfield and drew a foul.

But I would like to see him post up once in a while. He's 6-8, 230, strong as the proverbial horse and able to jump out of the equally proverbial gym.

So, it seems to me that it should at least be able to have that as part of his bag of tricks.

And, yes, if he's always setting up 20 feet from the basket, he's not really much of an option on the offensive boards.

Then again, we knew he was raw coming in and it's only two games into his sophomore season. So, he's far from a finished product and I think Duke is okay with that. As long as he keeps improving.

[Troublemaker]

I am a little surprised that such an athletic and strong guy would cloose to shoot 3's and not have an inside game with close in shoots and dunks. Has he taken shots other than 3's. The game play by play record doesn't mention any.

Context matters. He's playing with teammates who either have better post games or are better drivers. Thus, the perfect role for Semi in that context is to be a standstill shooter who spreads the court for the aforementioned teammates who have better post games and better driving abilities. Teammates have to fit together and play complementary roles. Don't want too many chefs and not enough indians, or however it goes.

[jacone21]

He did get to the rim off his dribble one time against Fairfield and drew a foul.


Yes. In the previous game, guys were flying at him as he shot the 3, and I told my wife (who occasionally listens to my nonsense during games) that he could shot fake and drive any time he wanted. It was great to see him do just that in the Fairfield game. He'll get better in time, and if he keeps playing defense, he'll keep getting opportunities.

[CDu]

He did get to the rim off his dribble one time against Fairfield and drew a foul.

But I would like to see him post up once in a while. He's 6-8, 230, strong as the proverbial horse and able to jump out of the equally proverbial gym.

So, it seems to me that it should at least be able to have that as part of his bag of tricks.

And, yes, if he's always setting up 20 feet from the basket, he's not really much of an option on the offensive boards.

Then again, we knew he was raw coming in and it's only two games into his sophomore season. So, he's far from a finished product and I think Duke is okay with that. As long as he keeps improving.

I consider this listed height to be dubious. He looks closer to 6'6" than to 6'8" to me.

But regardless, as you said he's pretty raw as a player. Moreover, he has always fancied himself a perimeter player, and it takes time to develop the mentality and skills of a post player. If you aren't used to establishing/maintaining post position, catching entry passes, and making post moves, it's not easy to pick that up on the fly (especially against guys who are used to playing in the post).

So right now I'd say that Ojeleye's advantage lies in being a stretch-4. Pull his man away from the basket where the defender is not comfortable and where he is comfortable. If he tries to post up, that creates two problems: (1) it puts him in a position where he isn't comfortable but his man is, and (2) it crowds the lane a bit more and makes life tougher for Okafor.

Maybe in time he'll develop a post game. But it's not at all surprising to me that a guy who was recruited as a somewhat-raw perimeter player has played like a somewhat-raw perimeter player at Duke.

[InSpades]

Tomorrow night's game will be interesting in terms of how many minutes Semi gets. The 10-man rotation seems good and all but it's hard for a zebra to change his stripes... I don't think it would be a shock to anyone if the rotation was trimmed a bit. It seems Semi is most likely to be the 10th man at the moment and maybe the 1st to see a reduction in playing time. I'm sure a lot of people figured Grayson would be the 1st to lose minutes... being the least touted freshman and playing a position where we have the most talent.

It wouldn't surprise me to see us go a bit smaller as the season goes on... maybe not 4 guards and a big so much but maybe Justise at the 4. Which isn't really that small.

It seems like coach does have confidence in Semi shooting the 3 but it seems like unless he's out there w/ Marshall... Semi will mostly be the 5th scoring option. I'd much rather see him focus on rebounding and defense as a way to add value to the team. If he can do that then I could see him getting minutes as the season goes on... it just doesn't seem like his offense is going to be enough when we have so many talented weapons.

[MChambers]

Tomorrow night's game will be interesting in terms of how many minutes Semi gets. The 10-man rotation seems good and all but it's hard for a zebra to change his stripes... I don't think it would be a shock to anyone if the rotation was trimmed a bit. It seems Semi is most likely to be the 10th man at the moment and maybe the 1st to see a reduction in playing time. I'm sure a lot of people figured Grayson would be the 1st to lose minutes... being the least touted freshman and playing a position where we have the most talent.

It wouldn't surprise me to see us go a bit smaller as the season goes on... maybe not 4 guards and a big so much but maybe Justise at the 4. Which isn't really that small.

It seems like coach does have confidence in Semi shooting the 3 but it seems like unless he's out there w/ Marshall... Semi will mostly be the 5th scoring option. I'd much rather see him focus on rebounding and defense as a way to add value to the team. If he can do that then I could see him getting minutes as the season goes on... it just doesn't seem like his offense is going to be enough when we have so many talented weapons.
Also, MSU isn't that big this year, so I could see Winslow moving to the 4 (or, if you don't believe we play positions, being the second biggest player on the floor for Duke) tomorrow night.

[slower]

Also, MSU isn't that big this year, so I could see Winslow moving to the 4 (or, if you don't believe we play positions, being the second biggest player on the floor for Duke) tomorrow night.

As somebody posted in another thread, we're likely to "play up a position". Seems all the more likely if Amile can't make a shot beyond 2 feet and Matt/Sheed/Grayson can hold the fort at the 3. I'm just a little concerned that teams will be able to play off Amile with impunity if he's stationed at the elbow, because he hasn't been hitting those jumpers and it's obvious that he REALLY doesn't want to take them. I'm sure that all of us love Amile and what he brings, but reliable offense isn't one of them - and there may be times when we'll need that from his position.

[jimsumner]

As somebody posted in another thread, we're likely to "play up a position". Seems all the more likely if Amile can't make a shot beyond 2 feet and Matt/Sheed/Grayson can hold the fort at the 3. I'm just a little concerned that teams will be able to play off Amile with impunity if he's stationed at the elbow, because he hasn't been hitting those jumpers and it's obvious that he REALLY doesn't want to take them. I'm sure that all of us love Amile and what he brings, but reliable offense isn't one of them - and there may be times when we'll need that from his position.

Jefferson did knock down a foul-line jumper against Fairfield. He told me he's been working on that part of his game. Does he have the confidence to regularly take that shot in a close game? TBD.

He does have an ability to put the ball on the floor and attack the rim and he and Okafor are developing a rapport on plays when Okafor is doubled and Jefferson flashes to the basket. And Jefferson uses double-teams on Okafor to go to the offensive glass.

And Okafor will be doubled pretty regularly. It's up to Jefferson to capitalize on that.

[Edouble]

As somebody posted in another thread, we're likely to "play up a position". Seems all the more likely if Amile can't make a shot beyond 2 feet and Matt/Sheed/Grayson can hold the fort at the 3. I'm just a little concerned that teams will be able to play off Amile with impunity if he's stationed at the elbow, because he hasn't been hitting those jumpers and it's obvious that he REALLY doesn't want to take them. I'm sure that all of us love Amile and what he brings, but reliable offense isn't one of them - and there may be times when we'll need that from his position.

I haven't noticed Amile camped out at the elbow as much as just moving out of the way so Jah can operate. He seems to run the baseline more b/c Jahlil can pass over double teams pretty well, given his size. I will definitely be looking to see how many times Amile receives the ball for the 12-15 foot shot. I remember him smoothly slipping in more for the offensive board or the pass.

I don't think Amile is in danger of losing minutes. The front court of Justise, Amile, and Jahlil seems like our best group.

[slower]

I haven't noticed Amile camped out at the elbow as much as just moving out of the way so Jah can operate. He seems to run the baseline more b/c Jahlil can pass over double teams pretty well, given his size. I will definitely be looking to see how many times Amile receives the ball for the 12-15 foot shot. I remember him smoothly slipping in more for the offensive board or the pass.

I don't think Amile is in danger of losing minutes. The front court of Justise, Amile, and Jahlil seems like our best group.

Yeah, I guess there's no real danger of him losing minutes, because he just brings too much to the table. If he could consistently hit that mid-range jumper, this team would be offensively (more) ridiculous. But it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to shoot that shot. However, I guess I prefer that hesitance to a Hairston jumper or a vintage Plumthree attempt. ;)

[Henderson]

He did get to the rim off his dribble one time against Fairfield and drew a foul.


More such examples in the exhibition games. And he has a beautiful FT stroke, so I'm good with 3's (if they're good looks) and FTs.

I think Semi's "problem" is more the people in front of him in the lineup than his game as such.

[Edouble]

Yeah, I guess there's no real danger of him losing minutes, because he just brings too much to the table. If he could consistently hit that mid-range jumper, this team would be offensively (more) ridiculous. But it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to shoot that shot. However, I guess I prefer that hesitance to a Hairston jumper or a vintage Plumthree attempt. ;)

Ha ha ha, you are making me cringe! Also, Amile has also been known to drive from the elbow, with which he has had moderate success. Agree, that if he can add that shot, the team becomes even more deadly.

[SupaDave]

In Semi's defense, I can't think of any time where Coach would draw up a play for Semi to have to post up his man. Hence, the wing.

Semi can score, he averaged like 40 points a game in high school. He appears to be catching on to the system but he will be just getting his feet wet this year. He may be needed against a team with an exceptionally mature power forward however, although I can't think of anyone of that ilk right now.

And if he does play the 5 then it's highly likely that he will be setting ball screens and not much else.