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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. Michigan St Pre-Game and In-Game Thread (Nov 18, 1900 EST, ESPN)



bbosbbos
11-16-2014, 11:30 AM
This is the 1st real test to evaluate our Blue Devils. How will K rotate players? Who will start? Will our O work against one of the finest D? Tom Izzo's team is always very physical, big Jah, are you ready? Winslow, will you be able to slow down Dawson?

We will get the answers this Tuesday night. Go Duke!

uh_no
11-16-2014, 11:47 AM
This is the 1st real test to evaluate our Blue Devils. How will K rotate players? Who will start? Will our O work against one of the finest D? Tom Izzo's team is always very physical, big Jah, are you ready? Winslow, will you be able to slow down Dawson?

We will get the answers this Tuesday night. Go Duke!

MSU teams generally start slowly, and that seems to be the case again this year, where they only scraped a 5 point win against navy. And this was not some "big lead put in the scrubs navy claws back," the largest lead was 8, and that was only reached once. Most of the time it was around that 5 point range.

prediction? duke rolls.

MChambers
11-16-2014, 11:52 AM
This is the 1st real test to evaluate our Blue Devils. How will K rotate players? Who will start? Will our O work against one of the finest D? Tom Izzo's team is always very physical, big Jah, are you ready? Winslow, will you be able to slow down Dawson?

We will get the answers this Tuesday night. Go Duke!
Don't know how much Winslow will be on Dawson. At least against Navy, judging from the box score, Dawson played the "4". MSU doesn't have much inside depth, but does have more depth in the backcourt, although one starting guard hurt his ankle against Navy. Don't know if he'll be available Tuesday.

Also, it is important to note that Lourawls Nairn is actually Lourawls Nairn Jr.

Troublemaker
11-16-2014, 12:03 PM
MSU teams generally start slowly, and that seems to be the case again this year, where they only scraped a 5 point win against navy. And this was not some "big lead put in the scrubs navy claws back," the largest lead was 8, and that was only reached once. Most of the time it was around that 5 point range.

prediction? duke rolls.


Yeah, MSU does have two good ball-handlers in Trice and Valentine and they'll make some plays against Duke's pressure but probably not nearly enough to avoid a solid Duke victory.

Troublemaker
11-16-2014, 12:10 PM
Matchups, to start with, should be:

Tyus on Trice
Cook on Forbes, a 6'3" shooter that transferred from Cleveland St.
Winslow on Valentine, MSU's best player, imo
Amile on Dawson
Okafor on Costello

uh_no
11-16-2014, 12:40 PM
Matchups, to start with, should be:

Tyus on Trice
Cook on Forbes, a 6'3" shooter that transferred from Cleveland St.
Winslow on Valentine, MSU's best player, imo
Amile on Dawson
Okafor on Costello

cook has been phenomenal in his new role on the offense (and i'll be the first to admit, after having been highly critical of him over the years). It will be interesting to see how he fares against guards that can break him down on D....will we have to revert to sheed or matt jones if quinn still has trouble on the perimeter? and if so, how will the offense function without him?

Tripping William
11-16-2014, 06:01 PM
Cook on Forbes, a 6'3" shooter that transferred from Cleveland St.

Did he transfer as a ripple-effect from the Wainstein Report. You know, to get out in front of Cleveland St's impending probation?

Seriously, it will be fun to see Duke against Tourney-quality competition. Can't wait!

CDu
11-16-2014, 07:13 PM
cook has been phenomenal in his new role on the offense (and i'll be the first to admit, after having been highly critical of him over the years). It will be interesting to see how he fares against guards that can break him down on D....will we have to revert to sheed or matt jones if quinn still has trouble on the perimeter? and if so, how will the offense function without him?

We will have to wait to answer that question because breaking folks down off the dribble isn't a strength of these MSU guards.

Potato Head
11-16-2014, 07:35 PM
cook has been phenomenal in his new role on the offense (and i'll be the first to admit, after having been highly critical of him over the years). It will be interesting to see how he fares against guards that can break him down on D....will we have to revert to sheed or matt jones if quinn still has trouble on the perimeter? and if so, how will the offense function without him?

I'm more interested in whether he keeps this type of shooting up for an entire season. I bet Quinn will be quicker than most 2's he'll face this season, but even if he does get beaten regularly we're so much better at team defense than last season that I'm not sure it will matter a great deal.

gep
11-16-2014, 10:44 PM
I'm more interested in whether he keeps this type of shooting up for an entire season. I bet Quinn will be quicker than most 2's he'll face this season, but even if he does get beaten regularly we're so much better at team defense than last season that I'm not sure it will matter a great deal.

Yes... team defense this year looks to be a lot better. So Quinn can pressure his man, knowing that his back is covered. This should really help him and the team with defensive overall pressure.

jipops
11-16-2014, 11:21 PM
If our guys show up with light blue unis the MSU players will go into a daze, and we'll win this thing by 60.

uh_no
11-17-2014, 10:59 AM
We will have to wait to answer that question because breaking folks down off the dribble isn't a strength of these MSU guards.

i'm guessing they're somewhat more capable than kenpom 319 presbyterian and kenpom 205 fairfield

(17)

We've seen it before with quinn too, gaudy performances early in the year, and then poor play against tougher competition in pressure situations. As I mentioned earlier, I really like what I have seen out of him this far....but just as every team looks like a final four contender in november, every player looks like an all american as well.

I'm cautiously optimistic, lets say...which is more than I generally am :)

NYBri
11-17-2014, 11:15 AM
I have a really good feeling about this team. The depth and defense will keep those bad stretches short and keep us from those end of game meltdowns of the recent past.

Optimism abounds every year around this time, but this year's version doesn't have "Blue Devil Blindness" where I refuse to see the bad and exaggerate the good. This year it's more fact based than wishful thinking and the apparent TEAM feeling is the main reason. That and the realization that Winslow's and Allen's skills are so good gives me reason to embrace the reality that this team is special.

COYS
11-17-2014, 12:12 PM
i'm guessing they're somewhat more capable than kenpom 319 presbyterian and kenpom 205 fairfield

(17)

We've seen it before with quinn too, gaudy performances early in the year, and then poor play against tougher competition in pressure situations. As I mentioned earlier, I really like what I have seen out of him this far....but just as every team looks like a final four contender in november, every player looks like an all american as well.

I'm cautiously optimistic, lets say...which is more than I generally am :)

Sparty is always a physical team, even the 2014/15 Spartans don't look to have the muscle of past squads. It will also be interesting to see how the relatively small backcourt duo of Quinn and Tyus fare against physical defense. Also, we'll see what happens when Justise and Jahlil are faced with guys who are strong and don't mind pushing back.

Overall, though, I'm optimistic, too. Our offense has been designed around layups and three pointers . . . all off of excellent ball movement. That's an efficient recipe. So far, icing ball screens has been a revelation in terms of limiting dribble penetration, and the Spartans aren't as big of a threat in that department as some teams. Finally, Duke just has a lot of skilled guys. Justise has been pretty phenomenal thus far, playing more like a top 5 recruit than one that fell outside of the top 10. His slashing ability adds a little sauce to our meat (dump it to Jahlil to score or pass out of a double) and potatoes (drive and kick for three) offense. Amile is a threat around the basket. We seem to have plenty of capable shooters . . . at least as long as we keep up the good ball movement. And Jahlil is like a get-out-of-jail-free card. When the offense stalls, run a screen to get him open on the low block and watch the scoreboard light up for two more points.

Defensively, Duke has Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Matt, and even Grayson to relentlessly badger opposing ball handlers. Amile and Justise appear to be defensive aces. And Jahlil hasn't been too shaby on defense, either, even if he hasn't been challenged that much. Marshall is an asset off the bench.

I expect the game to be tough tomorrow. But I am optimistic that this Duke team is ready for the challenge.

Edouble
11-17-2014, 02:32 PM
Sparty is always a physical team, even the 2014/15 Spartans don't look to have the muscle of past squads. It will also be interesting to see how the relatively small backcourt duo of Quinn and Tyus fare against physical defense. Also, we'll see what happens when Justise and Jahlil are faced with guys who are strong and don't mind pushing back.

Overall, though, I'm optimistic, too. Our offense has been designed around layups and three pointers . . . all off of excellent ball movement. That's an efficient recipe. So far, icing ball screens has been a revelation in terms of limiting dribble penetration, and the Spartans aren't as big of a threat in that department as some teams. Finally, Duke just has a lot of skilled guys. Justise has been pretty phenomenal thus far, playing more like a top 5 recruit than one that fell outside of the top 10. His slashing ability adds a little sauce to our meat (dump it to Jahlil to score or pass out of a double) and potatoes (drive and kick for three) offense. Amile is a threat around the basket. We seem to have plenty of capable shooters . . . at least as long as we keep up the good ball movement. And Jahlil is like a get-out-of-jail-free card. When the offense stalls, run a screen to get him open on the low block and watch the scoreboard light up for two more points.

Defensively, Duke has Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, Matt, and even Grayson to relentlessly badger opposing ball handlers. Amile and Justise appear to be defensive aces. And Jahlil hasn't been too shaby on defense, either, even if he hasn't been challenged that much. Marshall is an asset off the bench.

I expect the game to be tough tomorrow. But I am optimistic that this Duke team is ready for the challenge.

Well, it won't be Quinn's first time against MSU. He's played them twice before.

2011: 2 minutes, 1 foul

2013: 21 minutes, 0-5 FG, 2 assists, 3 TO, 3 fouls

Third times the charm, perhaps?

rsvman
11-17-2014, 03:05 PM
Well, it won't be Quinn's first time against MSU. He's played them twice before.

2011: 2 minutes, 1 foul

2013: 21 minutes, 0-5 FG, 2 assists, 3 TO, 3 fouls

Third times the charm, perhaps?

Right, but we won both of those games, did we not?

Still a team game, and even more so this year.

Billy Dat
11-17-2014, 03:25 PM
Also, it is important to note that Lourawls Nairn is actually Lourawls Nairn Jr.

Sr. told Jr's Mom, "You'll never find, another name like mine"

CDu
11-17-2014, 03:26 PM
Well, it won't be Quinn's first time against MSU. He's played them twice before.

2011: 2 minutes, 1 foul

2013: 21 minutes, 0-5 FG, 2 assists, 3 TO, 3 fouls

Third times the charm, perhaps?

It won't be Cook's first game against MSU, but this MSU team isn't like previous MSU teams - especially in the backcourt. Those previous meetings included matchups with Keith Appling (both games), Brandon Wood, and Gary Harris. This team is led by Travis Trice (a tiny guard not noted for imposing defense) and Bryn Forbes (an even skinnier player than Trice if that's possible). Big step down in quality and physicality.

Edouble
11-17-2014, 03:50 PM
It won't be Cook's first game against MSU, but this MSU team isn't like previous MSU teams - especially in the backcourt. Those previous meetings included matchups with Keith Appling (both games), Brandon Wood, and Gary Harris. This team is led by Travis Trice (a tiny guard not noted for imposing defense) and Bryn Forbes (an even skinnier player than Trice if that's possible). Big step down in quality and physicality.

It is indeed.

The OP's comments concerned physical defense, the style that I will assume that Izzo will have his players ready to play. Perhaps the players are too raw and it is too early in the season to make this assumption.

But no, I would not presume that this Spartan team will present the challenge that we got from them in the previous two games that I mentioned. In fact, I'll be shocked if Quinn scores less than 10 points and if we win by less than 20.

kAzE
11-17-2014, 04:04 PM
We're the #1 offense according to kenpom, but without adjusting for schedule or pace, we're in the top 5 in the nation overall for scoring (4th, 111.0), assists (5th, 26.0), and field goal percentage (4th 62.6%) right now. Hard to imagine those numbers persisting through the next series of games, but WHAT A START.

CDu
11-17-2014, 05:19 PM
i'm guessing they're somewhat more capable than kenpom 319 presbyterian and kenpom 205 fairfield

(17)

We've seen it before with quinn too, gaudy performances early in the year, and then poor play against tougher competition in pressure situations. As I mentioned earlier, I really like what I have seen out of him this far....but just as every team looks like a final four contender in november, every player looks like an all american as well.

I'm cautiously optimistic, lets say...which is more than I generally am :)

Oh MSU will definitely be better than our previous foes. But the context was MSU's guards' ability to break folks down. That is not what Trice and Forbes do at all. They are both really good shooters but they aren't making anyone forget Harris and Appling off the dribble.

Henderson
11-18-2014, 01:16 AM
This is an important game, and I know the Duke staff isn't taking it lightly. People are curious about Duke's freshman class and the status of the team. It'll be a national showcase coming out party for this Duke team. Even after watching two exhibitions and two regular season games against over-matched teams, I'm psyched to see how we match up. You know an Izzo team will be well-coached.

I'm glad Duke is meeting them early in the season, because MSU often starts slowly. But win or lose, they'll likely be a different (i.e. better) team come March.

weezie
11-18-2014, 08:33 AM
Sr. told Jr's Mom, "You'll never find, another name like mine"

Well done, Sir William Dat. :cool:

Saratoga2
11-18-2014, 08:41 AM
It will be interesting to see if we use our depth to keep the pressure on them for 40 minutes. We have high quality subs at every position and very few teams including Mich St can match us in that way. If Tyus has trouble with Tice then Rasheed can cause him no end of bother. With Quinn, Matt, Justise and Grayson we can really give their 2 guard and small forward a lot to handle and we still have Amile and Semi at the 4 and Jahlil and Marshall inside. Keep the pressure on them. Tire them out, get them in foul trouble.

Our offense can run uptempo this year so good luck on them stopping us. I expect our scoring to hold up while our defense to hold MSU down. I would be happy with 85 to 72.

tux
11-18-2014, 09:51 AM
It will be interesting to see if we use our depth to keep the pressure on them for 40 minutes. We have high quality subs at every position and very few teams including Mich St can match us in that way. If Tyus has trouble with Tice then Rasheed can cause him no end of bother. With Quinn, Matt, Justise and Grayson we can really give their 2 guard and small forward a lot to handle and we still have Amile and Semi at the 4 and Jahlil and Marshall inside. Keep the pressure on them. Tire them out, get them in foul trouble.

Our offense can run uptempo this year so good luck on them stopping us. I expect our scoring to hold up while our defense to hold MSU down. I would be happy with 85 to 72.


On paper, this is a game Duke should win.

The big surprise in the first two games has been the overall play of the four freshmen. We knew Okafor and Tyus were going to be pretty good, but I think most have been pleasantly surprised at the level of play of Winslow and Grayson.

But, they're still freshmen. So, not only is this game against a stronger, well-coached opponent, but it's the first road game. Duke is also moving from the rim-friendly confines of Cameron and into a dome. If MSU puts real game pressure on Duke (or Duke is cold from outside), I'll be very interested to see how our offense operates under those conditions. Do we run everything through Okafor, or do we resort to some form of hero ball? Does the ball movement continue or do we fall back into some bad habits?

As a fan, I'd love Duke to just blow the doors off MSU, but some adversity would probably be good for this team.

Should be fun.

(Foul trouble is the other thing --- Izzo will be trying to get Okafor in foul trouble early to take the best player on the floor out of the game. They'll be physical and risk their own foul trouble to go at Okafor IMO. In the first two games, our players could still play loose with a couple or three fouls b/c we were up by 30-40 points and it didn't really matter. A very different story if the game is close...)

flyingdutchdevil
11-18-2014, 09:54 AM
MSU is, well, MSU: a well-coached team with good players who often struggle out of the gate but are awesome come tourney time. This MSU team is exactly that, only the talent level isn't that great. They don't start any freshman, so they are experienced, by only Dawson has ever averaged 10+ points a game. They started the year out poorly with a 5 point win at Navy. I think MSU's best assets are experience and defense. However, this is a BCS school, and one with a reputation at that. I'm really interested in the following:

a) Will Coach K platoon? My gut tells me no, and my head tells hell no. But I'd be pleasantly surprised if Coach K goes 10 deep against MSU. My guess? He goes 9 deep, with Semi being the odd man out.

b) Can we hit 3s against a solid team? It's been forecasted that Duke will struggle with the 3 this year, and that just hasn't happened. If anything, the 3 looks to be an asset. But that is against borderline DII competition. Cook (proven), Sulaimon (proven last year), Winslow (where did that shot come from), M Jones (ugly but effective), Semi (his offensive repertoire is his 3), Tyus (really surprised me with that shot), and Grayson (good shooter coming into Duke) are all decent-to-great shooters (I consider Cook to be great, especially given that he'll be shooting off the ball a lot, where he excels better than with the ball).

c) Can our backcourt defend? Our backcourt D is looking good. But, again, this is against DII/III competition. Sulaimon looks incredibly active, Cook is applying great pressure, and Tyus has the quickest hands. But against elite competition? Can we still apply full-court pressure? Can we stop penetration (even if MSU isn't a penetrating team)? I love our front court D, with the Oak (very competent), AJ (great 4 defender), and Winslow (Mr Swiss Army Knife), but I still have to see about our backcourt D.

d) Does this team have a killer instinct? We were so good offensively last year that we would always build a first half lead. But he could never break the will of the opponent. I want to see if we can do that this year. I am confident that we will build an early lead. But the second half - especially in the middle 10 minutes - are so crucial. Will we get lazy and allow MSU to come back?

Anywho, those are the 4 questions that I am most interested in.

Mike Corey
11-18-2014, 10:06 AM
Great posts from all.

I'm particularly curious to see how we respond to MSU's physicality, and to see how our freshmen perform in their first nationally televised game. The pre-game feel will be different--are we going to come out a little too amped up, a little too eager to show the country how talented this team is, or will we play as we've practiced, hard and fast and communicative and focused on both sides of the ball?

I suspect the latter. This is a special group. I think we see that in more than mere glimpses, starting tonight.

Kedsy
11-18-2014, 10:25 AM
MSU is, well, MSU: a well-coached team with good players who often struggle out of the gate but are awesome come tourney time.

Can I say that this is a bit of a myth? From 2002 to 2014, MSU has made three Final Fours and had four first round exits (plus one second round exit). In that same time period, Duke has made two Final Fours and had three first round exits (plus one second round exit). They have two Elite Eights and we only have one, but we have a championship in the period and they don't.

So I don't think MSU is any more "awesome come tourney time" than Duke. We just complain more.

flyingdutchdevil
11-18-2014, 10:42 AM
Can I say that this is a bit of a myth? From 2002 to 2014, MSU has made three Final Fours and had four first round exits (plus one second round exit). In that same time period, Duke has made two Final Fours and had three first round exits (plus one second round exit). They have two Elite Eights and we only have one, but we have a championship in the period and they don't.

So I don't think MSU is any more "awesome come tourney time" than Duke. We just complain more.

I never compared MSU to Duke, but I understand your point. Given MSU's talent gap compared to other blue chip schools, I'd argue that MSU's post season success is very solid.

Duvall
11-18-2014, 11:01 AM
On paper, this is a game Duke should win.

The big surprise in the first two games has been the overall play of the four freshmen. We knew Okafor and Tyus were going to be pretty good, but I think most have been pleasantly surprised at the level of play of Winslow and Grayson.

But, they're still freshmen. So, not only is this game against a stronger, well-coached opponent, but it's the first road game. Duke is also moving from the rim-friendly confines of Cameron and into a dome.

The game is not in a dome; it's in Bankers Life Fieldhouse, the Pacers' arena.

Kedsy
11-18-2014, 11:11 AM
I never compared MSU to Duke, but I understand your point. Given MSU's talent gap compared to other blue chip schools, I'd argue that MSU's post season success is very solid.

Sorry, I wasn't attempting to single you out, nor was I suggesting you'd compared MSU to Duke. Your statement that Michigan State is awesome at tourney time reflects an oft-stated trope that I guess I'm just a little tired of hearing.

I'm also not arguing that MSU's post-season success isn't impressive. Izzo's done a great job there. They're one of the top programs in the country.

What I am saying is Izzo hasn't found some magic formula. The fact is that his teams are not always awesome at tourney time. His teams do not always improve drastically over the course of the season.

My comparison to Duke was to point out that since Shane Battier graduated in 2001, Duke fans have lamented Duke's lack of post-season success and tendency toward early tourney exits, while at the same time repeating the myth about Michigan State's incredible post-season success, while the fact is that the two programs have had very similar post-season performance over the period (Michigan State having one more Final Four but also one more first round exit).

tux
11-18-2014, 11:43 AM
The game is not in a dome; it's in Bankers Life Fieldhouse, the Pacers' arena.

Thanks Duvall. I was too lazy to check my erroneous assumption...

tux
11-18-2014, 11:48 AM
Sorry, I wasn't attempting to single you out, nor was I suggesting you'd compared MSU to Duke. Your statement that Michigan State is awesome at tourney time reflects an oft-stated trope that I guess I'm just a little tired of hearing.

I'm also not arguing that MSU's post-season success isn't impressive. Izzo's done a great job there. They're one of the top programs in the country.

What I am saying is Izzo hasn't found some magic formula. The fact is that his teams are not always awesome at tourney time. His teams do not always improve drastically over the course of the season.

My comparison to Duke was to point out that since Shane Battier graduated in 2001, Duke fans have lamented Duke's lack of post-season success and tendency toward early tourney exits, while at the same time repeating the myth about Michigan State's incredible post-season success, while the fact is that the two programs have had very similar post-season performance over the period (Michigan State having one more Final Four but also one more first round exit).


I agree. MSU has had more down years than Duke, but I think their reputation is built on a few tournaments where they came in as a middle-ish seed and seemed to overachieve. Since Duke is almost always a top 4 seed, less opportunity for Duke to surprise anyone with an unexpected strong showing. I also think Izzo's MO of having physical, tough teams that rebound well can be a good formula for the tournament.

Potato Head
11-18-2014, 11:51 AM
What to watch for in tonight's game: Justise Winslow's "game face". It's elite, a solid mix of intensity and focus with a hint of legitimate insanity.

NSDukeFan
11-18-2014, 11:58 AM
Great posts from all.

I'm particularly curious to see how we respond to MSU's physicality, and to see how our freshmen perform in their first nationally televised game. The pre-game feel will be different--are we going to come out a little too amped up, a little too eager to show the country how talented this team is, or will we play as we've practiced, hard and fast and communicative and focused on both sides of the ball?

I suspect the latter. This is a special group. I think we see that in more than mere glimpses, starting tonight.

I'm not sure about the team, but I am a little concerned that I might be a little too amped up and a little too eager for this game. I'm not sure what I am going to do when the team plays Wisconsin. I am very excited to see how the team performs against a good squad away from Cameron as tux said above. How will the freshmen perform for their first big game away/neutral. I can't wait to watch and see.

slower
11-18-2014, 12:02 PM
What to watch for in tonight's game: Justise Winslow's "game face". It's elite, a solid mix of intensity and focus with a hint of legitimate insanity.

Eh - he's no Frank Martin.

Mike Corey
11-18-2014, 12:04 PM
I'm not sure about the team, but I am a little concerned that I might be a little too amped up and a little too eager for this game.

This is why we're friends.

oldnavy
11-18-2014, 12:15 PM
Sorry, I wasn't attempting to single you out, nor was I suggesting you'd compared MSU to Duke. Your statement that Michigan State is awesome at tourney time reflects an oft-stated trope that I guess I'm just a little tired of hearing.

I'm also not arguing that MSU's post-season success isn't impressive. Izzo's done a great job there. They're one of the top programs in the country.

What I am saying is Izzo hasn't found some magic formula. The fact is that his teams are not always awesome at tourney time. His teams do not always improve drastically over the course of the season.

My comparison to Duke was to point out that since Shane Battier graduated in 2001, Duke fans have lamented Duke's lack of post-season success and tendency toward early tourney exits, while at the same time repeating the myth about Michigan State's incredible post-season success, while the fact is that the two programs have had very similar post-season performance over the period (Michigan State having one more Final Four but also one more first round exit).

But they ALWAYS lay a big fat stinking egg when they play UNC....

Wheat/"/"/"
11-18-2014, 01:18 PM
Looking forward to finally seeing Okafor in a game. I've been hearing about him for what seems like forever but never seen him play.

Tripping William
11-18-2014, 01:55 PM
Eh - he's no Frank Martin.

And certainly no Robert Montgomery Knight (at the opposite end of the "game face" spectrum).

budwom
11-18-2014, 02:15 PM
I have no idea what to expect, but checking out a number of Duke boards, we are possibly the most overwhelming five point favorites in the history of sports.

elvis14
11-18-2014, 02:15 PM
Looking forward to finally seeing Okafor in a game. I've been hearing about him for what seems like forever but never seen him play.

I've seen Okafor and the others play the first two games but those teams were so overwhelmed by our guys that it was tough to get a real read on them. I'm really looking forward to tonight's game because it'll be the first time I get to see these guys play against a good solid team/program in MSU.

Native
11-18-2014, 02:57 PM
I have no idea what to expect, but checking out a number of Duke boards, we are possibly the most overwhelming five point favorites in the history of sports.

Yeah, I'm still on the edge of my seat about this one. Underestimating Izzo is always a mistake. Always.

Duvall
11-18-2014, 02:58 PM
Yeah, I'm still on the edge of my seat about this one. Underestimating Izzo is always a mistake. Always.

Well, unless Michigan State is about to play UNC. Then underestimating Izzo is just common sense.

Olympic Fan
11-18-2014, 03:23 PM
Well, unless Michigan State is about to play UNC. Then underestimating Izzo is just common sense.

I know that Izzo's record against UNC is terrible ... but it's not much better against K and Duke.

Izzo is 1-7 vs. Duke. That includes NCAA losses in 1999 (the national semifinals) and 2013 (the Sweet 16).

His one win against K was a big one -- in the 2005 Sweet 16.

Just watched a bit of Duke's victory over MSU in December 1, 2010 (the seventh of the eight games Kyrie Irving played before he was hurt). It was painful watching that game, seeing what we missed. Also surprised how poorly Nolan Smith played -- he would step it up big-time after Kyrie got hurt. But the overall impression was how great Duke's defense was (especially Kyle Singler). Yeah, Duke got beat on the drive a few times, but amazing how disruptive the old Duke defense was in the passing lanes -- forcing a good team into 20-plus turnovers.

ESPN Classic is now showing the game from MSG in Nov. 2011 when K beat Izzo to pass Bob Knight on the all-time win list. Great game by Andre Dawkins!

DukieInBrasil
11-18-2014, 04:19 PM
are there other ways to watch the game?
ESPN3 won't work in Brasil. Isn't there an ACC online network? First row sports?

grad_devil
11-18-2014, 04:32 PM
are there other ways to watch the game?
ESPN3 won't work in Brasil. Isn't there an ACC online network? First row sports?

I don't think ESPN3 will carry it.

I've always had success using firstrowsports.eu, but, as you know, beware the popups/malware/etc. when visiting that site.

Troublemaker
11-18-2014, 05:01 PM
I have no idea what to expect, but checking out a number of Duke boards, we are possibly the most overwhelming five point favorites in the history of sports.

7.5 point spread now. I still think it's a terrific bet on Duke. Hopefully I won't be learning a very expensive lesson about small sample size in a few hours.

Duke covered with ease against Presbyterian and Fairfield, and I don't think Vegas has caught up to how good this year's Duke team is yet.

Duvall
11-18-2014, 05:06 PM
Seth Davis has predicted a double-digit Duke win, so I'm getting pretty nervous now.

MCFinARL
11-18-2014, 05:13 PM
Great posts from all.

I'm particularly curious to see how we respond to MSU's physicality, and to see how our freshmen perform in their first nationally televised game. The pre-game feel will be different--are we going to come out a little too amped up, a little too eager to show the country how talented this team is, or will we play as we've practiced, hard and fast and communicative and focused on both sides of the ball?

I suspect the latter. This is a special group. I think we see that in more than mere glimpses, starting tonight.

I suspect the latter, too, and my hope is that the upperclassmen, especially captains Amile and Quinn, demonstrate their leadership worth by helping the newbies manage the situation--they have been there before.


I'm not sure about the team, but I am a little concerned that I might be a little too amped up and a little too eager for this game. I'm not sure what I am going to do when the team plays Wisconsin. I am very excited to see how the team performs against a good squad away from Cameron as tux said above. How will the freshmen perform for their first big game away/neutral. I can't wait to watch and see.

Right with you here. I'm already feeling too anxious to finish my work. :o

MCFinARL
11-18-2014, 05:14 PM
Seth Davis has predicted a double-digit Duke win, so I'm getting pretty nervous now.

Hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

-jk
11-18-2014, 05:16 PM
are there other ways to watch the game?
ESPN3 won't work in Brasil. Isn't there an ACC online network? First row sports?

If you're trying to watch US sports in Brasil, you might look into one of the vpn services - they'll give you an apparently-local presence here. Of course, then you'll need credentials for a local cable company (aka, a subscribing friend).

-jk

tommy
11-18-2014, 05:54 PM
But no, I would not presume that this Spartan team will present the challenge that we got from them in the previous two games that I mentioned. In fact, I'll be shocked if Quinn scores less than 10 points and if we win by less than 20.

We're all feeling good about what we've seen the first two games. But I think I probably speak for a lot of other posters when I say this: Please, please don't say things like that. Even if you feel it. Not good for the karma, my friend. Not good at all.

slower
11-18-2014, 06:00 PM
We're all feeling good about what we've seen the first two games. But I think I probably speak for a lot of other posters when I say this: Please, please don't say things like that.

EVER.

weezie
11-18-2014, 06:47 PM
Yes, say something like Seth Greenburg looks like he's swelling up.

riverside6
11-18-2014, 06:48 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Michigan State, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-michigan-state-basketball-live-stats-11182014

weezie
11-18-2014, 06:48 PM
Where's Chat?!

jacone21
11-18-2014, 07:08 PM
Let's do this!!!!

Go Duke!

moonpie23
11-18-2014, 07:09 PM
let's rock!!!!!!

weezie
11-18-2014, 07:18 PM
Argh no chat tonight?!

arnie
11-18-2014, 07:18 PM
let's rock!!!!!!

Haven't taken a 3 yet and still scored 14 at 1st break

MCFinARL
11-18-2014, 07:19 PM
Where's Chat?!

Just wondering the same thing.

Meanwhile, there have already been enough Duke plays in this game to make a highlight reel--hope they keep it up.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-18-2014, 07:19 PM
Where is the chat link?

ChrisP
11-18-2014, 07:20 PM
What was that offensive foul call on Okafor??? Ref signalled a hook. I didn't see it...

MCFinARL
11-18-2014, 07:21 PM
Interesting-- a platoon substitution, except for Quinn, who was at the line.

fisheyes
11-18-2014, 07:21 PM
9 deep...Check

CR9
11-18-2014, 07:26 PM
Need to rebound and take better shots. Defense has been poor.

-jk
11-18-2014, 07:27 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is here...

-jk

Selover
11-18-2014, 07:28 PM
The ball seems to be bouncing their way (several boards and deflections), but we are still up 5.

We've forced a couple shots, but we look pretty good so far.

chrishoke
11-18-2014, 07:29 PM
MSU hitting open mid range jumpers.

chrishoke
11-18-2014, 07:34 PM
Two fouls on JO

CR9
11-18-2014, 07:34 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is here...

-jk

Getting redirected to the smilies section...

CR9
11-18-2014, 07:41 PM
Rebound FFS

CR9
11-18-2014, 07:46 PM
Only 2 players on Staee's roster worth half a damn are sitting and Duke can't pull away.

MCFinARL
11-18-2014, 07:49 PM
Argh no chat tonight?!

Weezie--chat is finally happening. Come on down! You may have to click the "open in its own window" link to get it to come up.

DaleDuke7
11-18-2014, 07:52 PM
Offense looks fairly decent. Defense is ok. I wouldn't know, but just from watching, it looks like we're not communicating enough. And we're giving up way too many offensive rebounds. But the ball has been bouncing their way in a few. Lots of potential, lots of work to be done.

CR9
11-18-2014, 07:54 PM
Still can't defend the pick and roll? Are you kidding?

Tucknut
11-18-2014, 07:56 PM
Wow, no minutes for Grayson... :confused:

subzero02
11-18-2014, 07:57 PM
I can't watch... I just have the sports cast on my phone from espn. I will say that I have seen the sequence of Sulaimon turnover followed by 2 MSU points far too often.

Gthoma2a
11-18-2014, 07:58 PM
Still can't defend the pick and roll? Are you kidding?

Is there something else bothering you? We aren't doing great, but we'll be okay.

I would prefer Amile play with more awareness. If Justise moves up to help pressure, Amile has to have the rim protected. That walk-on should not have scored that easily. With that being said, it is early in the season, and we aren't losing. I kind of feel like the team has hit nerves for the first time tonight. Hopefully, they calm down in time.

mr. synellinden
11-18-2014, 08:01 PM
We shot too many 3s during the latter part of the half. Okafor did not touch the ball enough.

I hope coach is telling them at the half that Okafor has to touch the ball on every possession.

kAzE
11-18-2014, 08:01 PM
I thought Winslow was fantastic defensively, he closed out on shooters easily without falling for fakes, switched decisively on screens, and even got 2 blocks. He's the MVP so far.

jipops
11-18-2014, 08:02 PM
Giving up way too many 2nd chance points. The margin would be more comfortable if we could board.

kAzE
11-18-2014, 08:04 PM
Giving up way too many 2nd chance points. The margin would be more comfortable if we could board.

Eh, I'm not worried, a lot of those were bad bounces, not lack of effort. I think we should be able to do a much better job on the glass in the 2nd half. This is a really good rebounding team.

jgehtland
11-18-2014, 08:08 PM
Just looked at the team stats. We're dominating every stat except rebounding. If it wasn't for that we'd be up by 15. I feel good about our chances to correct that.

Ultrarunner
11-18-2014, 08:08 PM
Eh, I'm not worried, a lot of those were bad bounces, not lack of effort. I think we should be able to do a much better job on the glass in the 2nd half. This is a really good rebounding team.

I agree, Trice is the Spartans leading rebounder. That's bounces ( and maybe out-hustling our guards.)

arnie
11-18-2014, 08:22 PM
Just looked at the team stats. We're dominating every stat except rebounding. If it wasn't for that we'd be up by 15. I feel good about our chances to correct that.

Not sure that's so easily corrected. No other concerns so far.

kAzE
11-18-2014, 08:27 PM
Man . . . Okafor is at a NBA level with his post moves as an 18 year old. Defensively, he's not on the same level, but his offensive game SCREAMS Tim Duncan. He's sooo quick and good at positioning his feet. I don't think we've seen a college big with this level of body control since before the 1-and-done era.

slower
11-18-2014, 08:28 PM
No other concerns so far.


I think we should be thankful we're not playing Kentucky. Tonight appears to be Reality Check #1 for the season. We may pull away by fouling them out, but otherwise it's less than impressive. Also, we could lose. And we're getting run into picks repeatedly. Weren't we supposed to see some improvement there?

Selover
11-18-2014, 08:33 PM
Sheed shouldn't see the floor for a while..

Gthoma2a
11-18-2014, 08:34 PM
I think we should be thankful we're not playing Kentucky. Tonight appears to be Reality Check #1 for the season. We may pull away by fouling them out, but otherwise it's less than impressive. Also, we could lose.

Poor shooting, but that could be nerves. It could also be that this is our first time in front of a crowd that hates us. We haven't traveled well, as a fan-base, lately. Kentucky and Michigan State seem to have showed up here, though.

CR9
11-18-2014, 08:34 PM
Transition defense is awful.

gurufrisbee
11-18-2014, 08:36 PM
I don't get the deal for life Izzo has with the refs. His Spartans play the most overly physical, violent, thug, brutal basketball ever and never get called for anything. And he's done it for 20 years. Never seen two sets of rules like there is for Michigan State basketball and rest of the world.

slower
11-18-2014, 08:36 PM
Poor shooting, but that could be nerves.

The reason shouldn't matter, should it?

Sixthman
11-18-2014, 08:36 PM
We will lose this if we do not begin to match their intensity.

rifraf
11-18-2014, 08:36 PM
Every time Sulaimon drives and takes an off balance fading shot with a hand in his face and angel loses its wings.

arnie
11-18-2014, 08:38 PM
I think we should be thankful we're not playing Kentucky. Tonight appears to be Reality Check #1 for the season. We may pull away by fouling them out, but otherwise it's less than impressive. Also, we could lose. And we're getting run into picks repeatedly. Weren't we supposed to see some improvement there?

Yep, last few minutes painful to watch. Guard play this half has been poor, but as long as Okafor can play we're ok.

Devilwin
11-18-2014, 08:38 PM
We are totally confused on defense.

gurufrisbee
11-18-2014, 08:39 PM
We've forced them into a lot of long jumpers with solid defense. Unfortunately they have hit a high percentage of them and rebounded a lot of the few ones they missed. Michigan State feels lucky to be this close.

jipops
11-18-2014, 08:39 PM
I think we should be thankful we're not playing Kentucky. Tonight appears to be Reality Check #1 for the season. We may pull away by fouling them out, but otherwise it's less than impressive. Also, we could lose. And we're getting run into picks repeatedly. Weren't we supposed to see some improvement there?

Yea this game should bring many here back down to earth. Inexperience is showing. Spartans also playing great D this half.

NYBri
11-18-2014, 08:40 PM
Little too much standing around this half on offense.

Gthoma2a
11-18-2014, 08:41 PM
The reason shouldn't matter, should it?

It only matters in the sense that nerves will dull with experience.

kAzE
11-18-2014, 08:43 PM
what a FLOP

chaosmage
11-18-2014, 08:43 PM
Time for Marshall to show us what he's learned.

slower
11-18-2014, 08:43 PM
Yep, last few minutes painful to watch. Guard play this half has been poor, but as long as Okafor can play we're ok.

Well, here comes the answer. Actually, this could be huge if they pull away without Okafor.

arnie
11-18-2014, 08:45 PM
Yep, last few minutes painful to watch. Guard play this half has been poor, but as long as Okafor can play we're ok.

And Tyus Jones changes that!

Gthoma2a
11-18-2014, 08:45 PM
Well, here comes the answer. Actually, this could be huge if they pull away without Okafor.

And the guards pick it back up. We're a little too reactionary this early in the season. Unless you were referring to us pulling away without Okafor. I am hoping that is what it was, because that makes me happier.

gurufrisbee
11-18-2014, 08:45 PM
Same violent thugs who beat the crap out of Okafor all game now FLY six feet to the ground when he posts up on them? Right.

gurufrisbee
11-18-2014, 08:47 PM
YES!!!! Cook and now Tyus are showing that our strength really might be more in the backcourt than the center position.

slower
11-18-2014, 08:49 PM
And the guards pick it back up. We're a little too reactionary this early in the season.

Well, the point here is that we do not yet appear to be the wire-to-wire dominant team that so many have predicted. It seems to be a lesson we've learned the hard way for the past few years.

But you're correct in that it's very early in the season.

chaosmage
11-18-2014, 08:52 PM
Don't know about you folks, but Quinn Cook is darned impressive tonight - he's always been up and down, but he seems VERY mature compared to years past. Calming the team, key big shots, etc. Very impressive. He keeps this up, and he's my MOTM tonight.

Devilwin
11-18-2014, 08:56 PM
Tyus taking over! Okafor has disappeared, but we should be good now. Cook was shoved on that last drive.

Bay Area Duke Fan
11-18-2014, 08:56 PM
I don't get the deal for life Izzo has with the refs. His Spartans play the most overly physical, violent, thug, brutal basketball ever and never get called for anything. And he's done it for 20 years. Never seen two sets of rules like there is for Michigan State basketball and rest of the world.

I thought that Duke "got all the calls."

slower
11-18-2014, 08:56 PM
Don't know about you folks, but Quinn Cook is darned impressive tonight - he's always been up and down, but he seems VERY mature compared to years past. Calming the team, key big shots, etc. Very impressive. He keeps this up, and he's my MOTM tonight.

Although I did just see the first appearance this season of "Quinn Cook face." :p

jipops
11-18-2014, 08:56 PM
Don't know about you folks, but Quinn Cook is darned impressive tonight - he's always been up and down, but he seems VERY mature compared to years past. Calming the team, key big shots, etc. Very impressive. He keeps this up, and he's my MOTM tonight.

He had that bad turnover right after you posted this didnt he. I agree, he has been huge. Though Tyus might get my vote.

DaleDuke7
11-18-2014, 08:59 PM
I think that we've done a much better job limiting offensive rebounds this half.

Also, when MSU fronts Jah in the post, why not just throw it over his head for an easy dunk? If there's help, dump it off to whoever the help came from... Too easy??

NYBri
11-18-2014, 09:00 PM
Jah! So smooth.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-18-2014, 09:01 PM
Incredibly impressed with Winslow. His handle is much better than I thought from early observations.

CDu
11-18-2014, 09:02 PM
It appears that Cook and Tyus Jones can coexist.

gurufrisbee
11-18-2014, 09:04 PM
I thought that Duke "got all the calls."


I don't know if Duke gets more than their share of calls in general or not. Heck, they probably do. It always seemed a dumb argument because every good team got more calls than their opponents because inferior players have no choice but to foul guys who are better than them.

But Michigan State is in a whole new category because every game their first priority is too physically abuse and violently punish the opponent - and playing actual basketball is a distant second. It's repulsive as a fan of the sport and it's disappointing as one who believes the refs job is to keep the game safe for the participants.

chaosmage
11-18-2014, 09:05 PM
He had that bad turnover right after you posted this didnt he. I agree, he has been huge. Though Tyus might get my vote.

Yes. I actually was going to post that earlier, and then he pulled that stupid drive into four guys and bobbled it. So I waited...

All hilarity aside, he did great.

Good reality check for the team though, especially Okafor. He learned that the teams at this level won't all be like Presbyterian/Fairfield.