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bbosbbos
11-14-2014, 08:44 PM
Although with a lot of talent, I do not think they have improved much. Many jump shots. Poor D. Go watch the UNC vs NCCU game, espnu.

Duvall
11-14-2014, 08:46 PM
Although a lot of talent, I do not think they have improve much. Many jump shots. Poor D. Go watch the UNC vs NCCU game, espnu.

It's not even halftime of the first game! The search for the non-Paige shooter seems to continue, though.

bbosbbos
11-14-2014, 08:50 PM
I will not trade Nick for Theo Pinson. Now I understand why we did not go with him.



It's not even halftime of the first game! The search for the non-Paige shooter seems to continue, though.

OldPhiKap
11-14-2014, 08:51 PM
It's not even halftime of the first game! The search for the non-Paige shooter seems to continue, though.

Zone the Heels. All year. Every game.

GGLC
11-14-2014, 09:05 PM
The crowd is absolutely dismal (both sparse and seemingly disinterested). The contrast between the atmosphere here and in Cameron was extremely stark.

Wahoo2000
11-14-2014, 09:11 PM
Zone the Heels. All year. Every game.


^^^ This ^^^

They just CANNOT shoot the basketball. Pack it in against them, and if they get a decent shot inside 12 feet somehow, play hack-a-shaq. They can't make FTs either. I think they're going to end up 2 tiers below you guys:

End of year ACC:
Duke
.
.
.
UVa/Louisville
.
.
.
UNC
.
.
.
Everyone else

bbosbbos
11-14-2014, 09:17 PM
Orange will kick the UNCheaters butt off easily.


^^^ This ^^^

They just CANNOT shoot the basketball. Pack it in against them, and if they get a decent shot inside 12 feet somehow, play hack-a-shaq. They can't make FTs either. I think they're going to end up 2 tiers below you guys:

End of year ACC:
Duke
.
.
.
UVa/Louisville
.
.
.
UNC
.
.
.
Everyone else

OldPhiKap
11-14-2014, 09:18 PM
^^^ This ^^^

They just CANNOT shoot the basketball. Pack it in against them, and if they get a decent shot inside 12 feet somehow, play hack-a-shaq. They can't make FTs either. I think they're going to end up 2 tiers below you guys:

End of year ACC:
Duke
.
.
.
UVa/Louisville
.
.
.
UNC
.
.
.
Everyone else

Not selling your Wahoos short either. Glad to see UVA back in the mix. Good coach, good kids, good program.

-jk
11-14-2014, 09:27 PM
Anyone else notice the subtitle between the Duke and unc games: "Roy Williams looking for his 1000th win"? ESPN is really trying to push unc...

-jk

Bluegrassdevil1
11-14-2014, 09:29 PM
I will be quite interested in UNC should they make their expected date with Wisconsin two weeks from tonight.

Both teams have solid inside strength, but distinct concerns with the perimeter game. Granted that the Badgers' "long-game concern" is minor compared to UNC's, I still think the "overrated" UNC proclamations (of which I hold a megaphone up against a Marshall stack, located inside the Grand Canyon), will be addressed in a profound way after meeting the Badgers.

Wisconsin could obviously hand Duke a beating as well, but I am very curious how the Heels compete against such a talented, and experienced group. I find it quite exciting that one opponent will provide so much information about the national picture, conference big dogs, and the Tobacco Road duo.

An odd Wisconsin aside: If the Badgers do play UNC on the 28th, they will follow that game with Duke and Marquette. It is odd to look at another school's schedule and see Duke's rival, followed by Duke, then a team coached by a Duke alum.

Duvall
11-14-2014, 09:30 PM
Anyone else notice the subtitle between the Duke and unc games: "Roy Williams looking for his 1000th win"? ESPN is really trying to push unc...

-jk

Roy Williams won't get his 1000th win, but he might win his 500th twice.

jipops
11-14-2014, 09:31 PM
I'm going to try to stay true to this...

With the exception of the two (or more) Duke-UNC games... I'm not watching a single UNC game on tv. I'll get my updates from this board thank you very much. But there will be little to no profiting from me as a consumer via tv advertisers watching this basketball program this season. I know this wouldn't exactly sadden any tarheel faithful but I just don't find them worth much of my time.

Having said that, go Central!. I'll check back on the score later.

GGLC
11-14-2014, 09:32 PM
Anyone else notice the subtitle between the Duke and unc games: "Roy Williams looking for his 1000th win"? ESPN is really trying to push unc...

-jk

I turned it off after the first ten minutes; did the announcers ever bring up the academic scandal in any detail?

GGLC
11-14-2014, 09:33 PM
Roy Williams won't get his 1000th win, but he might win his 500th twice.

Amazing comment; well done. (Can't spork you, so my appreciation will have to be public.)

Oriole Way
11-14-2014, 09:37 PM
Who was the color man tonight?

In only a few minutes that I watched, his commentary was awful with regards to the UNC athletic/academic fraud. Said that it was only two administrators responsible for the fraud, and that it was limited to only one department. Essentially claiming that it wasn't really a basketball issue, and was a university-wide issue, which isn't completely untrue, but is largely misleading. He also said that the players weren't going to be affected, which is also a misguided thing to say since sanctions - including a loss of scholarships and a post-season ban - are extremely likely when the NCAA drops the hammer on UNC.

Straight up misinformation and garbage analysis tonight by ESPN's broadcasters during the UNC game.

pfrduke
11-14-2014, 09:41 PM
Who was the color man tonight?

In only a few minutes that I watched, his commentary was awful with regards to the UNC athletic/academic fraud. Said that it was only two administrators responsible for the fraud, and that it was limited to only one department. Essentially claiming that it wasn't really a basketball issue, and was a university-wide issue, which isn't completely untrue, but is largely misleading. He also said that the players weren't going to be affected, which is also a misguided thing to say since sanctions - including a loss of scholarships and a post-season ban - are extremely likely when the NCAA drops the hammer on UNC.

Straight up misinformation and garbage analysis tonight by ESPN's broadcasters during the UNC game.

I think it's Fran Fraschilla

Wahoo2000
11-14-2014, 09:43 PM
Not selling your Wahoos short either. Glad to see UVA back in the mix. Good coach, good kids, good program.

I think we'll be ok this year, but I'm targeting next season for our best chance to shine. We only lose 1 player in our rotation and he's the 2nd guy off the bench this year.

BD80
11-14-2014, 09:45 PM
Anyone else notice the subtitle between the Duke and unc games: "Roy Williams looking for his 1000th win"? ESPN is really trying to push unc...

-jk

1000 as coach or assistant, he's again taking credit for the work of others. (The unc SID should have nipped this blather in the bud)

Fraschilla's take on the scandal: -

"if you take a couple of phony classes, you wind up with a phony degree."

"roy says he didn't know, I'd say he didn't want to know"

Oriole Way
11-14-2014, 09:47 PM
1000 as coach or assistant, he's again taking credit for the work of others. (The unc SID should have nipped this blather in the bud)

Fraschilla's take on the scandal: -

"if you take a couple of phony classes, you wind up with a phony degree."

"roy says he didn't know, I'd say he didn't want to know"

Yeah, but then he started dismissing the scandal as athletic-related. Several things he said immediately after that were way off-base.

Duvall
11-14-2014, 09:57 PM
Who was the color man tonight?

In only a few minutes that I watched, his commentary was awful with regards to the UNC athletic/academic fraud. Said that it was only two administrators responsible for the fraud, and that it was limited to only one department. Essentially claiming that it wasn't really a basketball issue, and was a university-wide issue, which isn't completely untrue, but is largely misleading. He also said that the players weren't going to be affected, which is also a misguided thing to say since sanctions - including a loss of scholarships and a post-season ban - are extremely likely when the NCAA drops the hammer on UNC.

Straight up misinformation and garbage analysis tonight by ESPN's broadcasters during the UNC game.

Not misinformation, disinformation. ESPN wants this story to go away, ESPN needs this story to go away.

OldPhiKap
11-14-2014, 10:07 PM
Roy Williams won't get his 1000th win, but he might win his 500th twice.

Too bad I must comment before sporking again, that is absolutely hilarious.

Duvall
11-14-2014, 10:08 PM
1000 as coach or assistant, he's again taking credit for the work of others. (The unc SID should have nipped this blather in the bud)


Whose idea do you think it was? Kirschner is a disgrace.

IrishDevil
11-14-2014, 11:00 PM
1000 as coach or assistant, he's again taking credit for the work of others. (The unc SID should have nipped this blather in the bud)

Fraschilla's take on the scandal: -

"if you take a couple of phony classes, you wind up with a phony degree."

"roy says he didn't know, I'd say he didn't want to know"


Yeah, but then he started dismissing the scandal as athletic-related. Several things he said immediately after that were way off-base.

I noticed the shift in tone, as well. I wonder if the producer got in Fraschilla's ear after his initial comments and then he toed the ESPN party line for the rest of the evening. There was a stretch of about 90 seconds after his initial take where I think I heard him say "academic issue" and "off the court" at least twice each. Toward the end of that portion of the broadcast it sounded like the spin was on.

Oriole Way
11-14-2014, 11:05 PM
I noticed the shift in tone, as well. I wonder if the producer got in Fraschilla's ear after his initial comments and then he toed the ESPN party line for the rest of the evening. There was a stretch of about 90 seconds after his initial take where I think I heard him say "academic issue" and "off the court" at least twice each. Toward the end of that portion of the broadcast it sounded like the spin was on.

Yep, I think you're right.

After Frashcilla said, "I'd say Roy didn't want to know," and that those UNC degrees were phony, the producers panicked and told Fraschilla to tone it down/ spin it the other way.

Dukehky
11-14-2014, 11:43 PM
What are you guys talking about? UNC totally fixed their outside shooting!!! Hubert Davis told Nate Britt to start shooting with his RIGHT hand, and he actually made a 3!!!

I think their highly touted freshman class combined for a whopping total of 16 points!!! Yeah Joel Berry over Tyus Jones my John Brown hind parts.

Also, during Fight Blue Devils Fight, I would really like to hear the Crazies sing "Hey, we're gonna win tonight, Carolina go to CLASS (consume excrement)" instead of Carolina go to hell.


Also, can we avoid the paranoia concerning ESPN telling commentators what to say, it may be true, but it is eerily reminiscent of stuff other teams say about trying to make Duke look good. The NCAA is going to screw Carolina to the wall I think so it doesn't really matter how ESPN portrays it.

alteran
11-14-2014, 11:58 PM
I will be quite interested in UNC should they make their expected date with Wisconsin two weeks from tonight.

Agreed.

The game will feature the NCAA's preeminent academic cheating institutions. This night should be a stunning contrast in cheating styles.

Which cheat strategy is superior? It's tempting to go with the heels here. When an opposing team steps onto UNC's campus, they are subject to being overwhelmed by the Heels broad and endemic cheating. Even experienced cheaters like Kentucky can get intimidated by UNC's famous 4 Conners, where opponents are faced in every direction with an overwhelming array of tutors, VIP parties, free cars, and paper classes.

Truly not for the weak.

But don't count out the Badgers as a solid longshot pick. Sure, the smart money's on the heels, but what Wisconsin lacks in overwhelming cheat power, they make up for in effort concentrated entirely within their basketball program. They don't dilute their cheat strength by spreading it across their football, women's bball, women's soccer, and Olympic programs like UNC does-- Wisconsin's cheat efforts concentrate fully on the bball court.

It's a fascinating matchup. Really, you'd have to be ESPN to ignore this one.

IrishDevil
11-15-2014, 12:39 AM
Also, can we avoid the paranoia concerning ESPN telling commentators what to say, it may be true, but it is eerily reminiscent of stuff other teams say about trying to make Duke look good. The NCAA is going to screw Carolina to the wall I think so it doesn't really matter how ESPN portrays it.

While I take exception to being labeled paranoid, I grant that I am speculating, and thus will simply note the inconsistent commentary on the situation in Chapel Hill and leave it at that.

Coach K showing ~10 minutes of zone defense on a night when Carolina gets stymied by an NCCU zone while shooting 2-11 from 3pt? Definitely looking forward to playing UNC.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-15-2014, 07:43 AM
Last night was my first look at UNC and their freshmen in a game situation and I didn't really get to watch the whole game so I won't have that much add.

It looked like a typical RW early season game to me. He played 10 players double digit minutes using multiple line up combinations to acclimate the freshmen and get lots of film for teachable moments before upcoming practices.

It's no surprise that there was no flow to that game, especially since a good Central team played some junk defenses and tried to take the air out of the ball.

The biggest thing I saw of note was some really good full court defensive pressure at times by UNC. This will be a very strong defensive team.

TruBlu
11-15-2014, 07:43 AM
The same way you pre-season rank a poor UNC football team in the top 25: Wishful Thinking!

alteran
11-15-2014, 08:23 AM
Coach K showing ~10 minutes of zone defense on a night when Carolina gets stymied by an NCCU zone while shooting 2-11 from 3pt? Definitely looking forward to playing UNC.

Well, if history's any judge, we won't run zone against UNC no matter how effective it is. We'll run right into the teeth of their strength and take our chances because that's who we are.

The zone was run primarily to stop us from scoring 150.

I still look forward to playing UNC.

alteran
11-15-2014, 08:25 AM
Last night was my first look at UNC and their freshmen in a game situation and I didn't really get to watch the whole game so I won't have that much add.

It looked like a typical RW early season game to me. He played 10 players double digit minutes using multiple line up combinations to acclimate the freshmen and get lots of film for teachable moments before upcoming practices.

It's no surprise that there was no flow to that game, especially since a good Central team played some junk defenses and tried to take the air out of the ball.

The biggest thing I saw of note was some really good full court defensive pressure at times by UNC. This will be a very strong defensive team.


I've noticed that in recent years Roy's teams start the season slow-- bringing great joy to ABC country-- but often finish quite strong. Frustrating pattern, that.

moonpie23
11-15-2014, 08:42 AM
I've noticed that in recent years Roy's teams start the season slow-- bringing great joy to ABC country-- but often finish quite strong. Frustrating pattern, that.

and we, are opposite that.... :(

davekay1971
11-15-2014, 09:46 AM
Last night was my first look at UNC and their freshmen in a game situation and I didn't really get to watch the whole game so I won't have that much add.

It looked like a typical RW early season game to me. He played 10 players double digit minutes using multiple line up combinations to acclimate the freshmen and get lots of film for teachable moments before upcoming practices.

It's no surprise that there was no flow to that game, especially since a good Central team played some junk defenses and tried to take the air out of the ball.

The biggest thing I saw of note was some really good full court defensive pressure at times by UNC. This will be a very strong defensive team.

I hate to say it, but I saw an NCCU team that spent the first 10 minutes of the game missing wide open jumpers and layups...then spent the next 30 minutes of the game missing only half of their wide open jumpers and layups, but played UNC evenly anyway. The game was incredibly dull, because those two teams were battling to see who could be more offensively inept (NCCU won).

Gthoma2a
11-15-2014, 09:48 AM
and we, are opposite that.... :(

We got a team in the box, with just as much talent as last year and all of the pieces this time. Last year's team was missing some big pieces. A lack of defense, grit and a post presence doesn't get you far in March.

2013 was a really good team that just faced the best team late in the season. A let-down, but it does argue that the talk of a "pattern" is overblown. We should have known about last year just from seeing the nobody team that scored 90 something against us early on. We looked at it as our offense just created too many possessions, but we were really just showing that we didn't have a commitment on defense on last year's team.

striker219
11-15-2014, 09:50 AM
I love IC sometimes. Someone started a thread over there right around their tip-off last night, something to the effect of "get ready to watch the finest basketball of the Roy Williams era."

This was followed 30 or 40 minutes later by someone responding "I'm ready, when does it start?"

CDu
11-15-2014, 09:50 AM
Last night was my first look at UNC and their freshmen in a game situation and I didn't really get to watch the whole game so I won't have that much add.

It looked like a typical RW early season game to me. He played 10 players double digit minutes using multiple line up combinations to acclimate the freshmen and get lots of film for teachable moments before upcoming practices.

It's no surprise that there was no flow to that game, especially since a good Central team played some junk defenses and tried to take the air out of the ball.

The biggest thing I saw of note was some really good full court defensive pressure at times by UNC. This will be a very strong defensive team.

The biggest thing I saw was a UNC team that can't shoot to save its life. If you focus on Paige and aren't atrocious in your assignments elsewhere, UNC does not look at all impressive. NCCU took Paige out of the game without much trouble. That can't happen if UNC aspires to anything great this year.

NYBri
11-15-2014, 10:00 AM
Roy Williams won't get his 1000th win, but he might win his 500th twice.

Best post evah.

davekay1971
11-15-2014, 10:02 AM
and we, are opposite that.... :(

Except for those 12 final four years, of course.

Roy's pattern of weak start - strong finish is pretty suspect. He did a nice job in 2011 and 2012 of developing the team through the season (2012 was a legitimate NC contender that had an unfortunate injury derail them). The weak start of the 2012-2013 team was mainly due to his poor coaching in misusing Hairston and overusing his sorry bigs, so the comparatively strong finish was really more about a team finally being allowed to play to its strengths than it was great coaching. Last season was a firm second round bouncing in the NCAAT following a quarterfinals bouncing in the ACCT...the kind of finish that, when it happens to Duke, tends to get DBR shut down for a day or two.

Looking earlier at Roy's UNC tenure, 2010 was sorry from start to finish. 2009 was, of course, a loaded team, and was strong from start to finish, despite the challenge of having to go to class for the first time in Roy's tenure at UNC. 2008 was just as loaded as 2009, with the extra advantage of folks like Hansbrough taking paper classes. 2007, same story. 2006 was a 2nd round bounce with a young team. 2005 will be vacated. 2004 was nothing special.

And then there are the Kansas years. Go ahead and ask Jayhawk fans about Roy's pattern of finishing strong. Wear a bulletproof vest before you do, though.

bbosbbos
11-15-2014, 10:09 AM
imho, Takoto (not sure if it is the right spelling & I do not care either.) is the best player of UNCheaters. He is quick. He can jump. His bb skills are very solid now. Shooting, passing, stealing, he is everywhere. I would trade 2 Paiges for 1 Takoto if I am a coach. Certainly he is not perfect, fouls & terrible FT will stay with him.

On the other hand, the Snake Man does not know PF & SF training. He has completely forgotten that skill. Hicks & Jackson always jump shot or dunk, very similar to the case of MJM.



The biggest thing I saw was a UNC team that can't shoot to save its life. If you focus on Paige and aren't atrocious in your assignments elsewhere, UNC does not look at all impressive. NCCU took Paige out of the game without much trouble. That can't happen if UNC aspires to anything great this year.

martydoesntfoul
11-15-2014, 10:57 AM
Not misinformation, disinformation. ESPN wants this story to go away, ESPN needs this story to go away.

And that's why we should start a grassroots campaign to nominate Mary Willingham for the Arthur Ashe ESPY Award for Courage.

martydoesntfoul
11-15-2014, 10:58 AM
While I take exception to being labeled paranoid, I grant that I am speculating, and thus will simply note the inconsistent commentary on the situation in Chapel Hill and leave it at that.

Coach K showing ~10 minutes of zone defense on a night when Carolina gets stymied by an NCCU zone while shooting 2-11 from 3pt? Definitely looking forward to playing UNC.

It won't be paranoia if Fran quietly misses his next scheduled start.

BD80
11-15-2014, 11:15 AM
And that's why we should start a grassroots campaign to nominate Mary Willingham for the Arthur Ashe ESPY Award for Courage.

At unc they spell it C-are-age

Come to think of it, they pronounce it that way too

Gthoma2a
11-15-2014, 12:46 PM
At unc they spell it C-are-age

Come to think of it, they pronounce it that way too

Pronounce, I will give you, but they don't spell at UNC. The tutors do that for them.

gurufrisbee
11-15-2014, 02:52 PM
Paige is so talented he's going to keep NC from losing a lot of games when the rest of the super-talented-yet-mediocrely-coached-and-motivated bunch around him should lose it. #6 might be a bit high, that much size, speed, and Paige won't fall a lot lower. Unfortunately.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-15-2014, 02:59 PM
The weak start of the 2012-2013 team was mainly due to his poor coaching in misusing Hairston and overusing his sorry bigs, so the comparatively strong finish was really more about a team finally being allowed to play to its strengths than it was great coaching.

I doubt insiders at UNC would agree Hairston was "misused" early that season.

Starting and playing time is one of the biggest carrots a coach has and sometimes he'll have to use it on talented kids to get their attention. That's what was happening,IMO.

It was common knowledge that despite his talent, which was obvious, especially to RW...PJ was making some immature decisions around the team.

Ultimately, Roy failed to get through to PJ, and the following summer PJ's "antics" got him into real trouble.

A coach can only do so much sometimes.

BD80
11-15-2014, 03:24 PM
...PJ was making some immature decisions around the team.

Ultimately, Roy failed to get through to PJ, and the following summer PJ's "antics" got him into real trouble.

A coach can only do so much sometimes.

Maybe ol' roy should try a different coaching stance, this one isn't working:

4489

wilko
11-16-2014, 09:22 AM
Maybe ol' roy should try a different coaching stance, this one isn't working:

4489

His ONLY other choice is:

4491

Papa John
11-16-2014, 09:53 AM
At unc they spell it C-are-age

Come to think of it, they pronounce it that way too

I think you're mixed up... The spelling you've introduced above is what the athletes use when directing the bouncer checking IDs at the door of the local nightclub to the birthdate on their fake IDs... Here is the proper usage in context: "See our age? It's right there, and says we're 21."

The correct Carolina athletic spelling of "courage" is actually "curidj", though some will occasionally add a silent "e" in a random spot, just to look sophisticated...

ikiru36
11-16-2014, 10:20 AM
I doubt insiders at UNC would agree Hairston was "misused" early that season.

Starting and playing time is one of the biggest carrots a coach has and sometimes he'll have to use it on talented kids to get their attention. That's what was happening,IMO.

It was common knowledge that despite his talent, which was obvious, especially to RW...PJ was making some immature decisions around the team.

Ultimately, Roy failed to get through to PJ, and the following summer PJ's "antics" got him into real trouble.

A coach can only do so much sometimes.
Don't forget the subsequent Nuclear option Roy utilized after PJs antics, not getting to pick the team restaurant. Quite the disciplinarian, that Ol Roy. But a coach can only do so much sometimes.

camion
11-16-2014, 10:27 AM
I doubt insiders at UNC would agree Hairston was "misused" early that season.

Starting and playing time is one of the biggest carrots a coach has and sometimes he'll have to use it on talented kids to get their attention. That's what was happening,IMO.

It was common knowledge that despite his talent, which was obvious, especially to RW...PJ was making some immature decisions around the team.

Ultimately, Roy failed to get through to PJ, and the following summer PJ's "antics" got him into real trouble.

A coach can only do so much sometimes.

Yes. And the Titanic took on a little water.





I'm sorry, but that was just too easy.

davekay1971
11-16-2014, 11:23 AM
I doubt insiders at UNC would agree Hairston was "misused" early that season.

Starting and playing time is one of the biggest carrots a coach has and sometimes he'll have to use it on talented kids to get their attention. That's what was happening,IMO.

It was common knowledge that despite his talent, which was obvious, especially to RW...PJ was making some immature decisions around the team.

Ultimately, Roy failed to get through to PJ, and the following summer PJ's "antics" got him into real trouble.

A coach can only do so much sometimes.

Wheat, if you're not working PR for a DC politician, you've missed your calling. That's exceptionally high quality spin you've got going there.

PJ's antics didn't limit his playing time. Prior to the summer in question, the only thing that limited PJs playing time was Roy's dogged adherence to his mentor's strict positional system - Roy had a lot of trouble letting go of the perceived need to have a back-to-the-basket 5, a big 4, etc. To his credit, when Roy finally took the chance to change that system, he unleashed his best weapon and the team improved markedly. Following PJ's summer of drugs-n-guns, the only thing that finally limited his playing time was the very real possibility that he was receiving improper benefits (and guns and weed) from a Carolina supporter (and drug dealer). If Roy had played him after that summer, he would have risked forfeiture of games (as opposed to playing a team full of guys who were enrolled in fake classes to keep them eligible and allow them to focus on hoops rather than actual academics).

BlueSheed
11-16-2014, 05:07 PM
Lots of Bias in here. UNC is going to be a fantastic team this year. They are incredibly deep inside and with Paige being able to create his own shot as well as distribute to Tokoto and Justin Jackson..this team is going to be very scary.

davekay1971
11-16-2014, 05:33 PM
Lots of Bias in here. UNC is going to be a fantastic team this year. They are incredibly deep inside and with Paige being able to create his own shot as well as distribute to Tokoto and Justin Jackson..this team is going to be very scary.

It's possible. And granted that it's dangerous to rush to judgement with such a small sample size as one game...but watching that one game, if UNC is going to be very scary, they didn't show it against NCCU. They looked like a team that will have difficulty consistently generating points.

I have no doubt there's an anti-UNC bias in my assessment of the Heels, but there's also a significant recent history of UNC being over ranked at the beginning of the season, and I'm suspecting that may the case again this year.

Tripping William
11-16-2014, 05:33 PM
Lots of Bias in here. UNC is going to be a fantastic team this year.

I see no one on the UNLV-CH squad who even approaches Len. Now, if you're talking Justise Winslow as a senior, then okay. :)

Wheat/"/"/"
11-16-2014, 06:21 PM
PJ's antics didn't limit his playing time.

Actually, they did. No spin.

But feel free to keep looking for a narrative that fits your pre conceived belief that Roy is a poor coach...while he continues to build chemistry early in the season on his teams for strong conference/tourney runs almost every year.

Tripping William
11-16-2014, 07:33 PM
PJ Hairston seated next to Sean May in the Dean Dome tonight. Discuss, caption, what-have-you ....

wilko
11-16-2014, 07:36 PM
Lots of Bias in here. UNC is going to be a fantastic team this year. They are incredibly deep inside and with Paige being able to create his own shot as well as distribute to Tokoto and Justin Jackson..this team is going to be very scary.

You may be right, but I prefer to live in the moment on this one.....

devildeac
11-16-2014, 07:39 PM
PJ Hairston seated next to Sean May in the Dean Dome tonight. Discuss, caption, what-have-you ....

Concession sales in the dump on the hump should skyrocket tonight.

Tripping William
11-16-2014, 07:48 PM
Contact buzz (from PJ's car) + Little Debbie's? In the words of George Takei, "Oh Myyyyy!"

BD80
11-16-2014, 07:48 PM
PJ Hairston seated next to Sean May in the Dean Dome tonight. Discuss, caption, what-have-you ....


Concession sales in the dump on the hump should skyrocket tonight.

Krispy Kreme spontaneously establishes a fully functional franchise, registers record sales. PJ seen laughing: "Guess I got to choose where we eat tonight!"

El_Diablo
11-16-2014, 07:56 PM
Actually, they did. No spin.

Just to be clear, you are claiming that Roy was disciplining PJ Hairston (for unspecified "antics") during the first two thirds of the 2012-2013 season by playing him ~20 minutes per game...but then bumped him into the starting lineup late in the season?

OldPhiKap
11-16-2014, 08:21 PM
Just to be clear, you are claiming that Roy was disciplining PJ Hairston (for unspecified "antics") during the first two thirds of the 2012-2013 season by playing him ~20 minutes per game...but then bumped him into the starting lineup late in the season?

Riiiiiiiight.

Or, it was like starting Larry Drew II over Kendall Marshall for so long. Just stubbornness. Everyone else could see who the better player was.

Or maybe Kendall was a bad guy and just being punished?

Wheat/"/"/"
11-16-2014, 08:21 PM
Just to be clear, you are claiming that Roy was disciplining PJ Hairston (for unspecified "antics") during the first two thirds of the 2012-2013 season by playing him ~20 minutes per game...but then bumped him into the starting lineup late in the season?

Not sure "disciplining" is the right word...but he was not giving him the honor of starting until he showed more responsibility.

arnie
11-16-2014, 08:26 PM
Riiiiiiiight.

Or, it was like starting Larry Drew II over Kendall Marshall for so long. Just stubbornness. Everyone else could see who the better player was.

Or maybe Kendall was a bad guy and just being punished?

No, Drew's AFAM "test" scores were higher. And Roy was proud of him.

Wheat/"/"/"
11-16-2014, 08:30 PM
Riiiiiiiight.

Or, it was like starting Larry Drew II over Kendall Marshall for so long. Just stubbornness. Everyone else could see who the better player was.

Or maybe Kendall was a bad guy and just being punished?

Drew was a good player, and Roy knew LDII was a fragile player mentally ...and KM was a team guy and ok with coming off the bench. Roy tried to keep LDII's confidence and team chemistry up by starting Drew early...as it became clear that KM earned the starting spot, Roy made the move when the big games came.

Coaches have to make decisions. It had nothing to do with being stubborn, or not realizing who the better player was.

It was about how to best coach his team.

OldPhiKap
11-16-2014, 08:41 PM
Drew was a good player, and Roy knew LDII was a fragile player mentally ...and KM was a team guy and ok with coming off the bench. Roy tried to keep LDII's confidence and team chemistry up by starting Drew early...as it became clear that KM earned the starting spot, Roy made the move when the big games came.

Coaches have to make decisions. It had nothing to do with being stubborn, or not realizing who the better player was.

It was about how to best coach his team.

No, Roy's hand finally got forced because LD II was abysmal but Roy was afraid of LD II's pro coach father. And when everyone was calling for Marshall to start, Roy doubled down on LD II because he doesn't give a $#]¥ about what Carolina fans think he should do. Roy Williams knows that Roy Williams knows best, because Roy Williams has more passion in his pinky than any person to ever breathe on God's green earth.

dukelifer
11-16-2014, 09:05 PM
Lots of Bias in here. UNC is going to be a fantastic team this year. They are incredibly deep inside and with Paige being able to create his own shot as well as distribute to Tokoto and Justin Jackson..this team is going to be very scary.

They will certainly be good. Their outside shooting is a bit suspect - but this is a team with talent.

mpj96
11-16-2014, 09:09 PM
Fish swim, birds fly, spinners spin, don't ask wheat why...

My $0.02 on topic: UNC is going to be really good this year and our match ups are going to be great as usual. Belmont Abbey is not Duke (or even Belmont) but UNC beat them by 78 points. Central game notwithstanding, UNC will be a load.

Tappan Zee Devil
11-16-2014, 09:20 PM
From ESPN's "rumors" recruiting thread on this week's commitments

ACC
North Carolina
Luke Maye PF
HT: 6-8 WT: 230
Class of 2015
Positional Rank: 25
Stars: 4

Maybe we are underestimating the guy or ….

;)

OldPhiKap
11-16-2014, 09:21 PM
They will certainly be good. Their outside shooting is a bit suspect - but this is a team with talent.


Fish swim, birds fly, spinners spin, don't ask wheat why...

My $0.02 on topic: UNC is going to be really good this year and our match ups are going to be great as usual. Belmont Abbey is not Duke (or even Belmont) but UNC beat them by 78 points. Central game notwithstanding, UNC will be a load.

Agreed. UNC will be a force, and I think they will be pretty tight/motivated because of the off-court crud.

MaxAMillion
11-16-2014, 09:33 PM
I simply don't understand the need to draw conclusions about teams in November. I certainly thought people would be less willing to do so after watching UK turn it on in the tournament. Basketball teams grow and develop as the season goes on. Right now coaches are still trying to find out what lineups and rotations work best.

I am willing to bet that UNC will be very good by the end of the year. They certainly have some talent.

Oriole Way
11-17-2014, 02:41 AM
Not sure "disciplining" is the right word...but he was not giving him the honor of starting until he showed more responsibility.

Are you honestly implying that Roy Williams gives a s*** (to quote the man himself) about responsibility?

This is a man who either willingly turned a blind eye to blatant cheating in his program, or who claims that he can't be responsible for knowing which classes all of his kids are in (again, in his own words).

Wheat/"/"/"
11-17-2014, 08:03 AM
Are you honestly implying that Roy Williams gives a s*** (to quote the man himself) about responsibility?


Yes.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-17-2014, 08:16 AM
I hate this thread, no offense. But that school is dead to me, and I personally don't care what they do this season or any other season. It will always stink of cheating from now on. I can't watch or even care about this team win or lose. The only time I will watch them is when I am forced to, and that is against Duke. Maybe my feelings towards it will change once the season starts full swing. After all, these guys werent involved in the cheating, or were they? See what I mean, there is no trust left there. I suspect they will be good as they always are, I just don't really care anymore and I suspect that will really change how I enjoy the season. I used to enjoy rooting against them it was part of the fun of watching college basketball, rooting against your bitter rival. Now I could care less win or lose.

Oriole Way
11-17-2014, 02:38 PM
Yes.

Fair enough. I don't think Roy Williams will be coaching at UNC for very much longer given the complete lack of responsibility he had in failing to ensure that his players weren't cheating in order to stay eligible. We'll see.

77devil
11-17-2014, 03:48 PM
Fair enough. I don't think Roy Williams will be coaching at UNC for very much longer given the complete lack of responsibility he had in failing to ensure that his players weren't cheating in order to stay eligible. We'll see.

Is it too early to start the who will replace Ol' Roy vigil thread?

grad_devil
11-17-2014, 03:57 PM
Fair enough. I don't think Roy Williams will be coaching at UNC for very much longer given the complete lack of responsibility he had in failing to ensure that his players weren't cheating in order to stay eligible. We'll see.


Is it too early to start the who will replace Ol' Roy vigil thread?

On this line of thinking, the NCAA defines head coach responsibility:


Definition:
A head coach is presumed responsible for the actions of those who report directly or indirectly to him or her.

Presumption:
This is a rebuttable presumption. The head coach can rebut the presumption by showing:

He or she promotes an atmosphere of compliance AND
Monitors those who report directly to him or her

Tools a head coach can use to help show he or she demonstrates head coach control:

Communication
Monitoring
Documentation



If I'm not mistaken, Walden (?) admitted in the Wainstein Report that he knew about Debbie Crowder's involvement with the fake classes. Unless Roy can demonstrate that he "..promotes an atmosphere of compliance..." and, the big one, "..monitors those (Walden) that report directly to him", it sounds like he would be shown responsible.

Perhaps this belongs in the UNC-CH Scandal thread. Mods, feel free to move if appropriate.

oldnavy
11-17-2014, 04:04 PM
watched a bit if the UNC game last night...

UNC clearly wants to be an "inside/out" offensive team. Almost every trip down the court the ball was pounded inside...

Too soon to tell how successful they will be against the bigger bodies they will face as the year progresses, but against smaller teams they are pretty efficient, nice inside passing etc...

I feel very confident in saying that UNC will be good to very good this year... Top Ten??? Maybe, but I want to withhold judgment until after the holidays...

Wheat/"/"/"
11-17-2014, 05:17 PM
watched a bit if the UNC game last night...

UNC clearly wants to be an "inside/out" offensive team. Almost every trip down the court the ball was pounded inside...

Too soon to tell how successful they will be against the bigger bodies they will face as the year progresses, but against smaller teams they are pretty efficient, nice inside passing etc...

I feel very confident in saying that UNC will be good to very good this year... Top Ten??? Maybe, but I want to withhold judgment until after the holidays...

I watched the taped game today on watchespn.

You are right, the Heels pounded the ball inside to Meeks, Johnson and Hicks. You'll see that a lot this year since they can score it down low.

What really struck me was the quality of the catches of tough passes by the bigs.

This team has good, sticky "hands"... and as you noted, they made some nice passes inside in traffic to finish. There were also some nice catches of some bullet passes to bigs from Tokoto from the top of the key. He had 10 assists last night.

The passes can be a little "crisper" when you know your guys can catch it, making it tougher on the D, causing defenders to foul more etc...and I saw passes that would not have been attempted without high confidence from the passer.

The inside game was obviously the point of emphasis last night, and it looked good for early in the season.

jv001
11-17-2014, 05:23 PM
I watched the taped game today on watchespn.

You are right, the Heels pounded the ball inside to Meeks, Johnson and Hicks. You'll see that a lot this year since they can score it down low.

What really struck me was the quality of the catches of tough passes by the bigs.

This team has really good, sticky "hands"... and as you noted, they made some nice passes inside in traffic to finish. There were also some nice catches of some bullet passes to bigs from Tokoto from the top of the key. He had 10 assists last night.

The passes can be a little "crisper" when you know your guys can catch it, making it tougher on the D, causing defenders to foul more etc...and I saw passes that would not have been attempted without high confidence from the passer.

The inside game was obviously the point of emphasis last night, and it looked good for early in the season.

Wheat, I respect you a lot for being a good tarheel fan, but I will never care one way or other about Carolina. They just proved what I always suspected. They're cheaters and that is one thing they can brag about. Well, no they can't. I was about to say they were the best at cheating, but they even got caught at that. GoDuke!

MartyClark
11-17-2014, 05:31 PM
I watched the taped game today on watchespn.

You are right, the Heels pounded the ball inside to Meeks, Johnson and Hicks. You'll see that a lot this year since they can score it down low.

What really struck me was the quality of the catches of tough passes by the bigs.

This team has good, sticky "hands"... and as you noted, they made some nice passes inside in traffic to finish. There were also some nice catches of some bullet passes to bigs from Tokoto from the top of the key. He had 10 assists last night.

The passes can be a little "crisper" when you know your guys can catch it, making it tougher on the D, causing defenders to foul more etc...and I saw passes that would not have been attempted without high confidence from the passer.

The inside game was obviously the point of emphasis last night, and it looked good for early in the season.

I reluctantly agree with Old Navy and Wheat that Carolina may be pretty good this year. I'm looking forward to the games. Personally, I'm a bit fatigued with the allegations/defenses of the Carolina scandal. Two Duke victories and an ACC championship are good enough for me.

Henderson
11-17-2014, 05:36 PM
I reluctantly agree with Old Navy and Wheat that Carolina may be pretty good this year. I'm looking forward to the games. Personally, I'm a bit fatigued with the allegations/defenses of the Carolina scandal. Two Duke victories and an ACC championship are good enough for me.

I agree. Rankings are just opinions, and we know that the early ones are soft. Let's see how this plays out on the court. For us, for UNC-CH, for UK, for Arizona, for Kansas, and for all teams.