Duke football, our fans, and what is means for our bowl chances

[JasonEvans]

I was driving home from a meeting tonight and listening to local Atlanta sportsradio host Chuck Oliver. Chuck's schtick is that he is a super-expert on southern college football. He seems to know about everything and appears to be really connected. He is constantly breaking stories or talking about what he heard from members of various coaching staffs. He is not a bragger, proffering himself as some kind of special insider, he just seems like a guy in the know.

Anyway, he had just gotten done talking about LSU's wide receiver recruiting over the past several years when he started talking about Duke football. At first, I was elated because he never talks about Duke (it is all SEC with a little bit of Ga Tech, Clemson, and FSU most of the time for Chuck). He led by saying that Duke was even better this year than they were last year and he complimented the team for building on their impressive showing against Texas A&M a season ago. But, he then said that Duke is every bowl's nightmare and that the Orange Bowl is terrified they will have to pick Duke. He said it has nothing to do with the players, coaches, or administration -- it is all about the fans. The bowls all feel that Duke fans won't come to football games. He has been on the Chick-fil-a bowl selection committee for several years and he said there was real concern over picking Duke last year because the Duke basketball team was playing Elon the same day as the bowl game. "That's right, a basketball game against Elon is more interesting to that fanbase than a big time bowl game is," he said. I was floored...

I thought Duke had sold out -- or come darn close to selling out -- its bowl allotment the past couple years. I guess even if we sell it out, if our fans don't buy the general admission seats, maybe it makes us less attractive? I was at the Chick-fil-a bowl and though there appeared to be more A&M fans in the house, it wasn't an overwhelming showing and there were a lot of Duke folks.

Still, Chuck is not the kind of guy who throws out baseless accusations. I don't think he has anything to gain by bringing down Duke (he is not a Ga Tech homer, by a long stretch). If he was telling the truth, or even just saying what many college football insiders think, it really sucks :(

-Jason "I thought we heard about how excited the Chick-fil-a folks were to get Duke a year ago" Evans

[devildeac]

I was driving home from a meeting tonight and listening to local Atlanta sportsradio host Chuck Oliver. Chuck's schtick is that he is a super-expert on southern college football. He seems to know about everything and appears to be really connected. He is constantly breaking stories or talking about what he heard from members of various coaching staffs. He is not a bragger, proffering himself as some kind of special insider, he just seems like a guy in the know.

Anyway, he had just gotten done talking about LSU's wide receiver recruiting over the past several years when he started talking about Duke football. At first, I was elated because he never talks about Duke (it is all SEC with a little bit of Ga Tech, Clemson, and FSU most of the time for Chuck). He led by saying that Duke was even better this year than they were last year and he complimented the team for building on their impressive showing against Texas A&M a season ago. But, he then said that Duke is every bowl's nightmare and that the Orange Bowl is terrified they will have to pick Duke. He said it has nothing to do with the players, coaches, or administration -- it is all about the fans. The bowls all feel that Duke fans won't come to football games. He has been on the Chick-fil-a bowl selection committee for several years and he said there was real concern over picking Duke last year because the Duke basketball team was playing Elon the same day as the bowl game. "That's right, a basketball game against Elon is more interesting to that fanbase than a big time bowl game is," he said. I was floored...

I thought Duke had sold out -- or come darn close to selling out -- its bowl allotment the past couple years. I guess even if we sell it out, if our fans don't buy the general admission seats, maybe it makes us less attractive? I was at the Chick-fil-a bowl and though there appeared to be more A&M fans in the house, it wasn't an overwhelming showing and there were a lot of Duke folks.

Still, Chuck is not the kind of guy who throws out baseless accusations. I don't think he has anything to gain by bringing down Duke (he is not a Ga Tech homer, by a long stretch). If he was telling the truth, or even just saying what many college football insiders think, it really sucks :(

-Jason "I thought we heard about how excited the Chick-fil-a folks were to get Duke a year ago" Evans

From The Chronicle last year on 12/30:

"Duke has sold the majority of its 18,500-ticket allotment as well, and students are expected to be out in force. Thanks to donations from six members of the Iron Dukes, both undergrads and graduate students were able to pick up their Chick-fil-A Bowl tickets—priced at $90 face value—for free."

From CollegeFootballPoll:


"Getting a matchup like this is like getting to open your Christmas presents early," said Gary Stokan, Chick-fil-A Bowl president and CEO. "Pitting a 10-win Duke team, coming off its best season ever, against an SEC powerhouse brand like Texas A&M is going to create a very compelling shootout that we’ll get to show off in front of a sold-out crowd in the Georgia Dome New Year’s Eve."

I've Googled just about everything else I can think of but can't find any verification of how many tix Duke sold/bought for the Belk and CFA Bowls the last 2 years. Numbers I remember hearing were about 20K for each game with Duke selling/buying the most tix for 2012 and 2nd most for 2013 out of all the ACC schools.

Someone else help me here please:o.

[Scorp4me]

He might be someone in the know, but in this case I think he is not only wrong but poorly misinformed. But is anyone surprised??? I'm still shocked by how poorly the half time reporters were during the Duke/Pitt game. It was practically embarrassing the "information" they were spouting. Fan support at Wade is poor no doubt (although it's not as bad as the tv makes it look in person due to the camera placement). But the bowl support has been great based on what I've read and seen in person.

[Henderson]

I've sort of expressed here the Chuck Oliver view: That if discretion plays a role, Duke will lose a bowl nod in part because of the fan support issue. Others assured me that Duke bought tickets to previous bowls, so all is good. OK.

But bowl committees and other deciders have that information, so why would there be a perception that Duke fans don't support the Duke football team?

Look at WW photos during this year's home games. I live 2000 miles away, so I can only watch games through televised media, and what I see are a lot [a LOT] of empty seats. Blame it on camera placement if you want, but I don't buy it. Cameras pan both sides of the field, and it's not full on either side. Maybe Duke sold out its allotment of bowl tickets the last couple years (I don't know), but do we know who bought those tickets and how many fans actually went to the games? Or more importantly how many fans came from out of town and spent $$ on hotels, meals, etc.? I genuinely do not know. But I watched the last two bowl games and didn't see waves of Duke fans.

Then there are the TV ratings, monitored closely by the bowls. Bad TV ratings sting a bowl badly. Johnny Football can generate ratings for a Duke football game, but can Duke generate ratings for a Duke game? It's hard to say yes if Saturdays at Wallace Wade say no.

I'd love to be wrong about this, and the stats may prove me wrong (I hope). But if there are stats out there demonstrating that Duke can be a draw on game day, both in the stands and on television, those stats are available to bowl committees too. So are the TV feeds from WW on Saturdays, and what they see are a lot of empty seats. I suspect they extrapolate from there regarding a Duke football bowl draw, and if there is evidence that such extrapolation is unwarranted, the proof needs to be pretty strong. And Duke won't get credit for ratings if the game featured Johnny Manziel. Do bowl selection personnel just have bad information? I doubt the Duke SID office fails to present any relevant stats.

[Duvall]

From The Chronicle last year on 12/30:

"Duke has sold the majority of its 18,500-ticket allotment as well, and students are expected to be out in force. Thanks to donations from six members of the Iron Dukes, both undergrads and graduate students were able to pick up their Chick-fil-A Bowl tickets—priced at $90 face value—for free."

From CollegeFootballPoll:


"Getting a matchup like this is like getting to open your Christmas presents early," said Gary Stokan, Chick-fil-A Bowl president and CEO. "Pitting a 10-win Duke team, coming off its best season ever, against an SEC powerhouse brand like Texas A&M is going to create a very compelling shootout that we’ll get to show off in front of a sold-out crowd in the Georgia Dome New Year’s Eve."
o.

It's almost like everyone associated with the crooked bowl system is a two-face liar. Who knew?

[OldPhiKap]

If they don't respect you, win and MAKE them respect you.

Take care of what we control, and they don't have a choice.

[Duvall]

If they don't respect you, win and MAKE them respect you.

Take care of what we control, and they don't have a choice.

To be fair, it's not like college football is a real sport. Winning only gets you so far - marketability is as important, sometimes more. But you're right in that it's the only thing Duke can control.

[devildeac]

It's almost like everyone associated with the crooked bowl system is a two-face liar. Who knew?

So, what's your point? We get your dislike of the bowl system. Repeatedly. It appears Jason would like some evidence to support his belief that Duke fans traveled (surprisingly?) well to the Belk and CFA Bowls, probably spending a lot of money on tickets, airfare, hotels, meals and entertainment. This bowl was estimated to be worth more than $12 million to the city of Atlanta in 2007 but I could find no other more recent data. I searched for about 30 minutes to try and support his claim and unfortunately had little success except my recall of Duke's ticket sales and all you can do is refer/infer that the two quotes I posted from The Chronicle and a Chick-Fil-A representative are lies/liars. Let's see your next response have some evidence either refuting or backing up his/our/Duke's beliefs that we did very well supporting/justifying our selection for these games and just might make it a trifecta this year for whatever bowl we attend.

[Jarhead]

It looks as if some of us have forgotten how long we have been less than attractive to fans. It goes back a long time, all the way back to Spurrier, maybe even longer. Since then we lost interest in football. Not me, though. My youngest son and I have had our season tickets since the early seventies, and I can only remember about ten games that I could not attend a game. The tickets were always put to use.

As time wore on I began to see empty seats all over the stadium, the student section the biggest blow. Even this year students tend to stay away. In my day on campus it hard to see empty seats. Now we have a coach whose teams have won more games in Wallace Wade the last few seasons, just a guess, than the last 25 years. Now we are winning, but the habit of going to football games had disintegrated to zilch. Now it is beginning to work, and more people are showing up. Give it a little more time, and we'll be showing up in hordes. Today's student body is not used to this. When it becomes habitual, fans will be there. Then there is the modernization of the stadium. That in itself will bring more fans.

[Olympic Fan]

Jason ... I found this article from the N&O after the 2012 Belk Bowl:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/12/28/2568521_belk-bowl-cincinnati-spoils-dukes.html?rh=1

The relevant paragraph:

-- Belk Bowl executive director Will Webb was pleased with the ticket sales for both Duke and Cincinnati. Duke sold 11,000 of the 12,500 tickets allotted to the athletic department. “Based off of media reports, that’s more than any other ACC team going to a bowl game this year,” Webb said. Duke fans also bought tickets through other outlets, including directly from the Belk Bowl, and Webb said there were over 20,000 Duke fans in attendance. Cincinnati distributed 10,000 of its 12,500 tickets, and Webb estimated that there were 10,000 Bearcats supporters in attendance

Don't know what we did in Atlanta.

[uh_no]

It looks as if some of us have forgotten how long we have been less than attractive to fans. It goes back a long time, all the way back to Spurrier, maybe even longer. Since then we lost interest in football. Not me, though. My youngest son and I have had our season tickets since the early seventies, and I can only remember about ten games that I could not attend a game. The tickets were always put to use.

As time wore on I began to see empty seats all over the stadium, the student section the biggest blow. Even this year students tend to stay away. In my day on campus it hard to see empty seats. Now we have a coach whose teams have won more games in Wallace Wade the last few seasons, just a guess, than the last 25 years. Now we are winning, but the habit of going to football games had disintegrated to zilch. Now it is beginning to work, and more people are showing up. Give it a little more time, and we'll be showing up in hordes. Today's student body is not used to this. When it becomes habitual, fans will be there. Then there is the modernization of the stadium. That in itself will bring more fans.

This doesn't make sense to me.

Having sat in the student section for each game this year, it has been relatively full each week...at least to the degree that i couldn't just "sit wherever i wanted to" as I'd done...even last year.

[Duvall]

I've sort of expressed here the Chuck Oliver view: That if discretion plays a role, Duke will lose a bowl nod in part because of the fan support issue. Others assured me that Duke bought tickets to previous bowls, so all is good. OK.

But bowl committees and other deciders have that information, so why would there be a perception that Duke fans don't support the Duke football team?

Look at WW photos during this year's home games. I live 2000 miles away, so I can only watch games through televised media, and what I see are a lot [a LOT] of empty seats. Blame it on camera placement if you want, but I don't buy it. Cameras pan both sides of the field, and it's not full on either side. Maybe Duke sold out its allotment of bowl tickets the last couple years (I don't know), but do we know who bought those tickets and how many fans actually went to the games? Or more importantly how many fans came from out of town and spent $$ on hotels, meals, etc.? I genuinely do not know. But I watched the last two bowl games and didn't see waves of Duke fans.

Then there are the TV ratings, monitored closely by the bowls. Bad TV ratings sting a bowl badly. Johnny Football can generate ratings for a Duke football game, but can Duke generate ratings for a Duke game? It's hard to say yes if Saturdays at Wallace Wade say no.

I'd love to be wrong about this, and the stats may prove me wrong (I hope). But if there are stats out there demonstrating that Duke can be a draw on game day, both in the stands and on television, those stats are available to bowl committees too. So are the TV feeds from WW on Saturdays, and what they see are a lot of empty seats. I suspect they extrapolate from there regarding a Duke football bowl draw, and if there is evidence that such extrapolation is unwarranted, the proof needs to be pretty strong. And Duke won't get credit for ratings if the game featured Johnny Manziel. Do bowl selection personnel just have bad information? I doubt the Duke SID office fails to present any relevant stats.

Well, maybe. That feels like it could be a sucker's game, though - fill the stadium, and they'll complain that the stadium is too small. Expand the stadium, and prepare to be mocked for having only 40,000 seats. The big public schools and their network and bowl cronies don't want schools like Duke in their club, and I doubt they ever will. Worrying about impressing them seems like a waste of energy.

[-bdbd]

To be fair, Bowls are big business. They are not there to lose money. If you are part of a Bowl committee, are you more inclined to take a team - assuming identical records/rankings - that has a huge fan and alumni base, and is known to draw well on TV too, or a smallish private school with a reputation (by all appearances fairly well deserved) for not turning out big FB crowds and limited TV appeal? I really don't think it has to be a hidden agenda sort of thing, as much as simple, straightforward economics. So, yeah, big state schools will always have a huge advantage in the Bowl selection game. That is part of what props up the Big Ten in FB (as well as the SEC, but they can at least point to clear FB/program quality too), the ability to dependably deliver large loyal crowds at home and on the road (especially for bowl games). I remember the '94 Outback Bowl in Orlando - until two years ago this was Duke's most recent bowl appearance - and seeing at least 75% (80%?) of that Tampa stadium packed with red-clothed, cheese-headed Wisconsin fans. The parking lot at the stadium had probably 100+ RV's in it, almost all with WI license plates. And they all came out very early and really knew how to tailgate. (And they were very visible all over town in the preceding days as well, clearly outspending Duke fans by their sheer volume.)

It's big business. So why WOULDN'T a Bowl committee want to lock in that sort of support from attending fanbases?

The only "unfairness" in this discussion is that Duke has, by most accounts, had really good turnouts for these last two bowls, especially last year in Atlanta. The long-earned rep for poor fan support just won't go away easilky, apparently. I was at the CFA game in Atlanta last year, sitting in the Duke section. I certainly did not feel outnumbered at that game. Duke fans were loud and numerous, to the point that I was really proud (and plesantly surprised) at our fan showing. Some regular sellouts at Wally Wade - which will be helped by the many planned improvements coming to the facillitities there, as well as developing a winning tradition - will help change our rep as well.

But there's no real "agenda," as much as there's just business decisions being made by those risk-averse bowl committees chasing the almighty buck.

[Wander]

It's big business. So why WOULDN'T a Bowl committee want to lock in that sort of support from attending fanbases?


The NFL is a business too. If Cleveland finishes 10-6 and Pittsburgh finishes 9-7, should the Steelers make the playoffs over the Browns because they have a better fanbase?

[brevity]

Bowls are big business. They are not there to lose money.

In the case of the 2010 Fiesta Bowl, they are there to take money.

But you're right. Outside of the 4-team playoff, bowls are largely meaningless endeavors. A bowl game is sort of about football, but it's mainly a multi-day destination conference shared by two separate fanbases. If I were to represent one of the Florida bowls (Orange, Russell, Taxslayer), I would be extremely interested in seeing FSU or Clemson rise or fall to my location. By comparison, Duke is a novelty and a risk.

Seeing Duke fans fill up stadiums in Charlotte and Atlanta is nice, but hardly representative of how well -- or not well -- Duke Football travels. Charlotte and Atlanta already have significant bases of local alumni, plus a larger spread of same-day travelers, so the past 2 years also don't tell us much about how much money Duke fans put into hotels, restaurants, and other local businesses. Sure, it's all an anti-Duke bias, but one grounded in genuine economic concern.

Henderson can speak to this, but I recall BYU being a favorite target of the Las Vegas Bowl (they played there from 2005-2009). Despite the stereotype of the Mormon teetotaler, BYU fans came in droves and spent a lot of money. With BYU now independent of the Mountain West Conference, they are no longer affiliated with that bowl, and Boise State has become the new Vegas regular.


The NFL is a business too. If Cleveland finishes 10-6 and Pittsburgh finishes 9-7, should the Steelers make the playoffs over the Browns because they have a better fanbase?

If the bowl games had no affiliation rules in place, wouldn't they all pursue Alabama and Notre Dame?

[tux]

While it sucks to have bowl committees hoping for a Duke loss or two, there's not much we can do about it. If Duke keeps on winning, we'll be in a good bowl. The only minor issue I see is that the "New Year's Six" bowl selection process is now tied to the CFB rankings. I.e., while the bowl selection process is not rocket science, there does seem to be a lot of different ideas out there about how it works.

Here's an explanation from ESPN:


The 13-member selection committee will not only provide the final Top 25 rankings, but will determine which teams go to which New Year's Six bowls that do not have conference tie-ins. In other words, you'll see fewer bowl reps on campus wearing tacky blazers because they have no control over who comes to their bowl. That's right: no control over what team plays in their bowl. Nada.

Here's a recent quote from the Orange Bowl website:


Hey Clemson Football (https://www.facebook.com/ClemsonTigerFootball) and Alabama Football (https://www.facebook.com/AlabamaFTBL) fans! For the third straight week, according to the newly released College Football Playoff (https://www.facebook.com/CollegeFootballPlayoff) Rankings, if the season ended today, you'd be planning a New Year's trip to South Florida for the 2015 Capital One Orange Bowl!

Does that not open the door for some back room deals? It's one thing to have the final rankings determined by a broader poll (AP) or computer rankings that take a lot of hard data into account. But the CFB committee has already shown the willingness to buck conventional wisdom, seemingly moving teams around based on stuff like Condi Rice's opinions and the fact that she's a PAC-10 fan (half-joking here, of course).

Say Duke wins out and Clemson drops another game. Considering how much money is at stake, what if the CFB final rankings slide Clemson one slot ahead of us (perhaps pointing to SOS). That would be a big big favor to the Orange Bowl. And the CFB committee is only 10-12 people. I don't know, not saying there'll be some conspiracy, just saying that the CFB has a lot more power than just picking the final 4, although that's what most fans will focus on.

[OldPhiKap]

Does that not open the door for some back room deals? It's one thing to have the final rankings determined by a broader poll (AP) or computer rankings that take a lot of hard data into account. But the CFB committee has already shown the willingness to buck conventional wisdom, seemingly moving teams around based on stuff like Condi Rice's opinions and the fact that she's a PAC-10 fan (half-joking here, of course).

Say Duke wins out and Clemson drops another game. Considering how much money is at stake, what if the CFB final rankings slide Clemson one slot ahead of us (perhaps pointing to SOS). That would be a big big favor to the Orange Bowl. And the CFB committee is only 10-12 people. I don't know, not saying there'll be some conspiracy, just saying that the CFB has a lot more power than just picking the final 4, although that's what most fans will focus on.

Yes, I have the sick sense that if we beat VT this weekend and GT beats Clemson, GT jumps us even though we beat them.

But we'll see. It's all irrelevant if we don't beat VT.

One thing is for certain -- if we take care of business and win the ACC CG, we go to the Orange Bowl (or higher). We can control that. So, we don't have much choice other than to go get it.

[budwom]

Two comments:
1) Chuck Oliver is a misinformed idiot
2) So much angst and gnashing of teeth on various boards about getting passed in the bowl hierarchy. We and just about everyone else has three games left. Win them and good things will happen, lose some, fewer good things will happen.

There is NO reason to pre-bum out about all this.

Third gratuitous thought: Georgia Tech is a boring, suck-o team to watch, I don't think bowls will salivate over them.

[Wander]

Yes, I have the sick sense that if we beat VT this weekend and GT beats Clemson, GT jumps us even though we beat them.



Third gratuitous thought: Georgia Tech is a boring, suck-o team to watch, I don't think bowls will salivate over them.

I agree with OPK. Remember, the Orange Bowl has to go with whoever is ranked higher. I watched the last rankings show, and it seems the committee is placing very little emphasis on head-to-head (contrary to their original claim) - they basically say it's only used as a last resort tiebreaker. If GT beats Clemson and UGA, I'm afraid the committee is going to see a 10-2 GT team as easily ahead of a 11-2 Duke team. The only chance really is that the committee says they're going to put a lot of weight on conference titles - does that mean division titles too? Who knows? Best to win out, including FSU, to make it all moot.

[bleudiable]

I find it interesting that our well-heeled alumni base has demonstrated for the last two years that they have the $ and freedom to travel over the holidays for a bowl game, but our lack of a large, local alumni base resulting in low home crowds hurts us in perception of our ability to travel.

As someone said earlier, keep winning and improve the game day experience (shuttles from the hospital lot for those of us who are not Iron Dukes?--aargh!) and crowds will improve. As that happens, so will the perception of "bowl-ability."

And yes, the home bank of WW is often nearly full for early season games while sitting on the far side roasting and staring into the fourth quarter sun is not fun and therefore not popular, but that's what the TV crowd sees-lots of empty seats.

[uh_no]

I find it interesting that our well-heeled alumni base has demonstrated for the last two years that they have the $ and freedom to travel over the holidays for a bowl game, but our lack of a large, local alumni base resulting in low home crowds hurts us in perception of our ability to travel.

As someone said earlier, keep winning and improve the game day experience (shuttles from the hospital lot for those of us who are not Iron Dukes?--aargh!) and crowds will improve. As that happens, so will the perception of "bowl-ability."

And yes, the home bank of WW is often nearly full for early season games while sitting on the far side roasting and staring into the fourth quarter sun is not fun and therefore not popular, but that's what the TV crowd sees-lots of empty seats.

YES PLEASE!!!!

you don't know how many people ask me to drive them in a golf cart to PG1 or one of the other medical center lots.....plus busses stop 1 hour after the game...when many people (especially visiting players families) are still milling around.

[sagegrouse]

YES PLEASE!!!!

you don't know how many people ask me to drive them in a golf cart to PG1 or one of the other medical center lots.....plus busses stop 1 hour after the game...when many people (especially visiting players families) are still milling around.

Uh_No, very politely stated. I might say, "Sobering up after tailgate."

[JasonEvans]

I agree with OPK. Remember, the Orange Bowl has to go with whoever is ranked higher. I watched the last rankings show, and it seems the committee is placing very little emphasis on head-to-head (contrary to their original claim) - they basically say it's only used as a last resort tiebreaker. If GT beats Clemson and UGA, I'm afraid the committee is going to see a 10-2 GT team as easily ahead of a 11-2 Duke team. The only chance really is that the committee says they're going to put a lot of weight on conference titles - does that mean division titles too? Who knows? Best to win out, including FSU, to make it all moot.

If Ga Tech beats Clemson and UGA, they deserve to make the Orange Bowl (unless Duke wins out including a victory over FSU). But I don't think Ga Tech is going to beat Clemson and UGA.

I am far more worried about Clemson, who have Tech and a tough rivalry game with South Carolina left on their slate.

-Jason "just win baby -- I think we have a legit shot of winning out" Evans

[tux]

I agree with OPK. Remember, the Orange Bowl has to go with whoever is ranked higher. I watched the last rankings show, and it seems the committee is placing very little emphasis on head-to-head (contrary to their original claim) - they basically say it's only used as a last resort tiebreaker. If GT beats Clemson and UGA, I'm afraid the committee is going to see a 10-2 GT team as easily ahead of a 11-2 Duke team. The only chance really is that the committee says they're going to put a lot of weight on conference titles - does that mean division titles too? Who knows? Best to win out, including FSU, to make it all moot.


I could be wrong, but if Duke wins out (12-1, ACC champions) it's still possible to fall below the Orange Bowl. If the CFB gang of 12 ranks FSU out of the playoffs but ahead of Duke (very possible IMO if Duke gets little traction with wins over VT, UNC, and WF) then FSU would go to the Orange Bowl and Duke would fall to either one of the other at-large bids (from the other 3 big new year's bowls) OR more than likely to the Russell Athletic Bowl.

Just pointing out what *could* happen -- not pre-bumming out...

[Channing]

any chance of a repeat trip to the CFA bowl? That was an awesome time last year.

[yancem]

The NFL is a business too. If Cleveland finishes 10-6 and Pittsburgh finishes 9-7, should the Steelers make the playoffs over the Browns because they have a better fanbase?

As a life long Steeler fan YES!!!! :cool: Just kidding but there is a little bit of a difference. In the nfl they have a playoff system predicated entirely on record, in college football (because of the shear number of teams) strength of schedule is almost as big a factor as overall record. This is much more subjective and gives the bowl people a little more wiggle room. In the end, if Duke does their job on the field, it won't matter much because the big bowls are locked (at least mostly) into picking teams based on how they finish in their particular conference.

[CameronBlue]

any chance of a repeat trip to the CFA bowl? That was an awesome time last year.

Meh, what do ya get? A trophy, no biggie: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/junk-collector-finds-trophy-from-1942-rose-bowl-in-trash--video-160827049.html;_ylt=AwrBEiKW2mRUcwYAATjQtDMD

[Wander]

I could be wrong, but if Duke wins out (12-1, ACC champions) it's still possible to fall below the Orange Bowl. If the CFB gang of 12 ranks FSU out of the playoffs but ahead of Duke (very possible IMO if Duke gets little traction with wins over VT, UNC, and WF) then FSU would go to the Orange Bowl and Duke would fall to either one of the other at-large bids (from the other 3 big new year's bowls) OR more than likely to the Russell Athletic Bowl.


I believe the Orange Bowl has to take the ACC champion if the champion is not in the playoff, even if it is not the highest ranked ACC team. Someone correct me if that's wrong...

[ChillinDuke]

So, what's your point? We get your dislike of the bowl system. Repeatedly. It appears Jason would like some evidence to support his belief that Duke fans traveled (surprisingly?) well to the Belk and CFA Bowls, probably spending a lot of money on tickets, airfare, hotels, meals and entertainment. This bowl was estimated to be worth more than $12 million to the city of Atlanta in 2007 but I could find no other more recent data. I searched for about 30 minutes to try and support his claim and unfortunately had little success except my recall of Duke's ticket sales and all you can do is refer/infer that the two quotes I posted from The Chronicle and a Chick-Fil-A representative are lies/liars. Let's see your next response have some evidence either refuting or backing up his/our/Duke's beliefs that we did very well supporting/justifying our selection for these games and just might make it a trifecta this year for whatever bowl we attend.

Not gonna jump into this argument. Just want to point out that the two views are not mutually exclusive.

I think it's entirely possible (maybe likely) that the bowl representatives say one thing and feel another, and I think neither has to do with our belief. In other words, if I were a bowl representative with no ties whatsoever to Duke, I would probably make tons of public comments about how great a selection Duke is/what a great success this bowl is/will be while privately wishing the matchup did not include Duke. For a myriad of reasons widely discussed on this board.

And my public views and private wishes need not have any relation to whether Duke deserves to be in "my" bowl nor to whether Duke justified its selection in "my" bowl.

See my point?

I'll scamper away now.

- Chillin

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Can we merge this thread with the "why doesn't Duke play in prime-time more often?" thread?

Bowl games are like TV slots - networks and bowls want butts in seats and ratings. Anyone who watched the Pitt game saw a nearly empty stadium and a REALLY COMPETITIVE game. I somehow doubt that it instilled great confidence about the masses clammoring for Duke football on their televisions.

I honestly don't see this as anything we can get upset about. Those of us on this message board are clearly fans of Duke sports. We can't single-handedly change the culture around Duke football to make it suddenly appealing to the masses. Also, it's not something changes after one or two good seasons. We have to have an element of faith that if there's continued great football at Wallace Wade, people will begin to take notice.

All of this to say - I feel like lots of folks are looking at the process backwards. You don't get on prime time games and then people watch. You don't go to high profile bowl games and then have people show up. You have consistent great football that garners good ratings and high attendence, THEN the time slots and the bowls are eager to have you.

To a degree, it's a self-perpetuating system. I mean, SEC football has nearly every game on my local networks each week it seems. They also have dominated the national discussion for most of a decade. And, to wit, I now watch a lot more SEC football than I ever would have. I know the many of the teams better than I know lots of ACC teams and the caliber of football is compelling.

And, to a degree it is unfortunate in regards to bowl games. Like it or not, bowl games are a popularity contest and come with varying degrees of prestige. It is an opportunity to show that your program has "arrived." Luckily, we are moving towards an era where at least the national title isn't decided by this asinine process.

Please, don't get me started on how stupid the bowl system is.

Anyway, my point is - support Duke sports as best you can, but please don't be surprised when we are still bumped into crappy time slots, passed over for big bowls, or not ranked as highly as you would like. That requires a sea change that takes many seasons of success.

[sagegrouse]

I think Duke football, after last year's A&M game, will draw a big TV audience.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think Duke football, after last year's A&M game, will draw a big TV audience.

Fair point. It was by all accounts one of the most entertaining games in last year's bowl season.

[airowe]

I believe the Orange Bowl has to take the ACC champion if the champion is not in the playoff, even if it is not the highest ranked ACC team. Someone correct me if that's wrong...

That is correct.

http://raycomsports.com/sports_labs_docs/m-footbl/2014_m-footbl-release_postseason.pdf


College Football Playoff (four teams)
If the ACC Champion is not in one of the semifinal games it will appear in the
Capital One Orange Bowl, or, if the Capital One Orange Bowl is a semifinal or national
championship site, one of the Playoff “host” bowls, either the Fiesta of Chick-fil-A Peach. There is no limit on how many teams the College Football Playoff may choose from a particular conference.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I think Duke football, after last year's A&M game, will draw a big TV audience.

Mr recall was that the audience for that game was biggest of the bowl season.... or something like that

[devildeac]

Mr recall was that the audience for that game was biggest of the bowl season.... or something like that

Looks like 7th based on this rating system. I think our bowl may have been rated one of the top 3 in terms of its entertainment and/or excitement value.


http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/01/college_football_bowl_tv_viewe.html

[OldPhiKap]

Looks like 7th based on this rating system. I think our bowl may have been rated one of the top 3 in terms of its entertainment and/or excitement value.


http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/01/college_football_bowl_tv_viewe.html

I am sure it was on in every sports bar on New Year's Eve -- and we were the only game on.

Lots of eyes, for sure.

[Dev11]

The bowl game was interesting, but let's be honest, Duke wasn't the main attraction. We were merely an entertaining foil for the hype machine that was Johnny Football. If people were that jazzed about that game, we would have a full Wallace Wade Stadium for games, regardless of the weather. Our stadium is one of the smallest in the power conferences, and we almost never sell it out. Even if the shady side is packed, that's still only about 15,000 butts in seats (or 30,000 feet on concrete/bleachers). That's still not great.

I don't know if attendance will ever regularly be more than 25,000, but hey, we certainly have an entertaining product on the field.

[DU82]

Chiming in late, I expect that the Atlanta radio guy talked to the bowl reps LAST YEAR, when there was a concern about Duke fans not traveling to a bowl game because of a local basketball game. IIRC, some of the bowl reps asked tailgating fans (including some on here) about that. So it was clearly a concern last year. The radio guy, remembering this conversation, decides to continue the thought, even though Duke fans traveled well the last two years (admittedly to bowl locations close enough for Duke fans/students in Durham could drive.)

[BlueDevilinNYC]

As somebody pointed out earlier, the CFP Committee will have a hand in picking the teams that go the the New Year's Six Bowls. And even though they have committed to stay as informed as possible on all the teams in contention, I'm pretty sure they have watched less Duke Football than SEC Football this season.

Well, you can bet that every single one of them will be watching November 20th to see not only the product on the field, but the product in the stands. A sold-out, raucous environment at WW coupled with a statement win will go a long way to helping us gain that respect we deserve.

(That being said, let's take it one game at a time. Beat VT!)