We're #1 !! (Bloomberg ranks Fuqua #1)

[94duke]

We're #1 !! Bloomberg ranks Fuqua #1.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-11-11/best-business-schools-2014-duke-is-top-full-time-mba-harvard-slips

[sagegrouse]

This is a big deal. The Business Week rankings (now Bloomberg Businessweek) have been the most important B-school rankings for decades. The previous rankings (they are biennial) had Chicago on top, followed by Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, and Kellogg (Northwestern). Duke Fuqua was 6th in 2012.

Why did Duke surge to the top? Teamwork! The survey gave increased emphasis 45 percent to the ratings of recruiters and employers who sought MBAs at the different business schools. Here's the money quote (appropriate term for B-school matters, eh?):


Fuqua students got high marks from recruiters, particularly those from companies that hire large numbers of MBAs, and these were given additional weight in the ranking. In our survey, recruiters noted that Fuqua students are exceptionally good at working collaboratively. “To be a great leader, you need to be great in a team setting, and I think that’s where we get credit from employers,” says Fuqua’s dean, Bill Boulding. Students echoed the theme: The word “team” and its variants appeared 73 times in the 200 survey responses we received from Duke students, including one that read “Learning how to effectively work in a team has been priceless.” Duke also benefited from a productive faculty—Fuqua’s ranked No. 2 in intellectual capital.

This matches the conventional wisdom about Duke undergrads, especially a few years ago when I was recruiting every year at Duke. Consulting companies, in particular, valued Duke students because they did well in team situations.

To be fair, our neighbors down the road, who are catching so much flak these days (well-earned, I might add), also did well, coming in at #12, just behind Michigan and UCLA among public B-schools.

[HK Dukie]

Wow, this really is a big deal! The survey took 45% employer opinions and 45% students and 10% faculty research into account. It was the employer survey which had expanded to over 1300 responses from just 250 the prior year that put Fuqua on top. This expanded survey highlighted how well the graduates worked in teams. Yes, the most selective B-schools are still Harvard and Stanford but the students from Duke are the ones who are most highly prized by employers (probably both their sense of teamwork and likely reduced arrogance). US news will still rank Duke lower on the list due to the selectively but the Bloomberg poll is about productivity and value of the education. Honestly, the latter is more important, so color me impressed.

This news today takes the sting out of the snub in the CFP polls for Duke Football which is ranked #21 but should really be #19 or #20 this week. Thanks Fuqua!

[ice-9]

Wow, this really is a big deal! The survey took 45% employer opinions and 45% students and 10% faculty research into account. It was the employer survey which had expanded to over 1300 responses from just 250 the prior year that put Fuqua on top. This expanded survey highlighted how well the graduates worked in teams. Yes, the most selective B-schools are still Harvard and Stanford but the students from Duke are the ones who are most highly prized by employers (probably both their sense of teamwork and likely reduced arrogance). US news will still rank Duke lower on the list due to the selectively but the Bloomberg poll is about productivity and value of the education. Honestly, the latter is more important, so color me impressed.

This news today takes the sting out of the snub in the CFP polls for Duke Football which is ranked #21 but should really be #19 or #20 this week. Thanks Fuqua!

I'm happy for Duke! I do think there's something in the fabric of the school that promotes teamwork and social development. But results of the survey reflect the survey itself.

Given that students have a vested interest to promote their own school so it achieves a higher ranking, thus raising the value of their degree...should student surveys even be a factor?

Also, for small schools like Stanford, the reality is that not many recruiters get to interact with the average MBA graduate. The class is small and graduates tend to work in even smaller PE/hedge funds and start-ups. For example, in my year at Stanford, only 5 people showed up to Morgan Stanley's information session!

So expanding the list of recruiters will no doubt help schools who send more graduates to those companies. Think about it: from where do those filling out the employer surveys come from? The schools that send graduates to those companies in the first place, most likely. There's bias built in at all levels.

IMO, the truest ranking is in students' enrollment choices. I.e., if you can go to any business school, which school would you actually choose?

[sagegrouse]

Oh my! Duke's ascendance was a featured story on MSNBC this AM and even got a boost from North Carolina's Sen.-elect Thom Tillis, whose parting line from his interview was, "And I am proud to be from a state that the includes the number one business school, Duke University!"

And, as it turns out, he's a graduate of the U. of Maryland -- although he got a degree mid-career from University College, U. of M's off-campus program.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I graduated from Fuqua's Daytime (fulltime) program in May 2013 (I am a 'Double Dukie'). Right now, I have a job in a company that I love. I made some amazing friends at Fuqua and will continue to network and recruit with Fuqua alums, students, and potential students.

Fuqua has historically had amazing research faculty (often at the expense of these professors/teachers being mediocre teachers), and we're always in the top #3 for research. Our moto - "Team Fuqua" - could not resonate more through everything that we do; we embrace this concept to the fullest. And it is true that employers love Fuquans because a) we are loyal, b) we preach teamwork, and c) we have a massive chip on our shoulder.

Why the massive chip? Because we aren't #1, and the student body knows we aren't #1. Most of us wouldn't call Fuqua "elite". Yesterday and today, I received dozens of texts and emails from friends who went to Fuqua laughing at the Businessweek ranking. Don't get me wrong - we think we are a very good school, but certainly not #1. The rankings, as many have already said on this thread, is 45% employers and 10% faculty. Both of those cater into what Fuqua does best. When it comes to other metrics that US News (Fuqua is #14), the FT (Fuqua is #17), and other rankings use, we don't do so hot. "Student satisfaction," "student experience," "Salary after 10 years," "Position in company," etc etc... these are criteria that do not fall Fuqua's way. And for a reason. Our students are excellent people, but we aren't the smartest nor the most ambitious. I know that sounds crass, but it's fact. Many of companies that recruit at HBS, Stanford GSB, Wharton, and the likes don't touch Fuqua with a ten foot poll (students are expected to reach out to these companies, and some do get jobs there. But it's not easy). I can't tell you the number of friends who wanted to go into PE, Hedge funds, Mutual funds, and equity coverage only to not land one interview.

I love Duke, and I had a great time at Fuqua (For the record, Fuqua isn't Duke, and vice versa). I am excited - and shocked - to see our school as the #1 B-school in Businessweek. I'll happily take it, but I just don't believe it.

-FDD, Trinity '07, Fuqua '13

[sagegrouse]

I'm happy for Duke! I do think there's something in the fabric of the school that promotes teamwork and social development. But results of the survey reflect the survey itself.

Given that students have a vested interest to promote their own school so it achieves a higher ranking, thus raising the value of their degree...should student surveys even be a factor?




I graduated from Fuqua's Daytime (fulltime) program in May 2013 (I am a 'Double Dukie'). Right now, I have a job in a company that I love. I made some amazing friends at Fuqua and will continue to network and recruit with Fuqua alums, students, and potential students.

Fuqua has historically had amazing research faculty (often at the expense of these professors/teachers being mediocre teachers), and we're always in the top #3 for research. Our moto - "Team Fuqua" - could not resonate more through everything that we do; we embrace this concept to the fullest. And it is true that employers love Fuquans because a) we are loyal, b) we preach teamwork, and c) we have a massive chip on our shoulder.

Why the massive chip? Because we aren't #1, and the student body knows we aren't #1. Most of us wouldn't call Fuqua "elite". Yesterday and today, I received dozens of texts and emails from friends who went to Fuqua laughing at the Businessweek ranking. Don't get me wrong - we think we are a very good school, but certainly not #1. The rankings, as many have already said on this thread, is 45% employers and 10% faculty. Both of those cater into what Fuqua does best. When it comes to other metrics that US News (Fuqua is #14), the FT (Fuqua is #17), and other rankings use, we don't do so hot. "Student satisfaction," "student experience," "Salary after 10 years," "Position in company," etc etc... these are criteria that do not fall Fuqua's way. And for a reason. Our students are excellent people, but we aren't the smartest nor the most ambitious. I know that sounds crass, but it's fact. Many of companies that recruit at HBS, Stanford GSB, Wharton, and the likes don't touch Fuqua with a ten foot poll (students are expected to reach out to these companies, and some do get jobs there. But it's not easy). I can't tell you the number of friends who wanted to go into PE, Hedge funds, Mutual funds, and equity coverage only to not land one interview.

I love Duke, and I had a great time at Fuqua (For the record, Fuqua isn't Duke, and vice versa). I am excited - and shocked - to see our school as the #1 B-school in Businessweek. I'll happily take it, but I just don't believe it.

-FDD, Trinity '07, Fuqua '13

FWIW Flying Dutch Devil, the student assessment rated Fuqua as #22, which sounds in line with your views. But the employers think you're wonderful -- who are you to argue with the guys and gals that cut the checks?

BTW, a #1 ranking in any area can have big effects downstream, maybe even validating the original ranking.

Kindly, Sage Grouse

[flyingdutchdevil]

BTW, a #1 ranking in any area can have big effects downstream, maybe even validating the original ranking.

Kindly, Sage Grouse

You're absolutely right. Plus, it's a vicious cycle. Better ranking = better students = better employer satisfaction = butter alumni donations = better ranking.

Important to note that I'm not bitter at all regarding this ranking; I think it's wonderful. But, again, my experience coupled with speaking with current students and alumni of all ages, just doesn't make me believe in this ranking.

[sagegrouse]

You're absolutely right. Plus, it's a vicious cycle. Better ranking = better students = better employer satisfaction = butter alumni donations = better ranking.

Important to note that I'm not bitter at all regarding this ranking; I think it's wonderful. But, again, my experience coupled with speaking with current students and alumni of all ages, just doesn't make me believe in this ranking.

I'm glad you understand the relationship between "alumni" and "butter" -- you'd make a great college president!

[DaveR]

Team Fuqua!