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View Full Version : Game Day A-Z Update for Nov. 20, UNC game



Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2014, 05:18 PM
Here's the update for all sorts of details for the Thursday night game with Carolina. Yellow highlighter helps find the important points. Plan ahead. Parking lots will not open until 5:30. Devil Walk at 5:15.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209739503

Current long range forecast calls for cold temperatures and some possibility of rain to add to the festive atmosphere.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/durham-nc/27708/daily-weather-forecast/11454_pc?day=11

Bob Green
11-10-2014, 05:46 PM
Parking lots will not open until 5:30. Devil Walk at 5:15.

I'm trying not to be too negative, but what is the point?

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2014, 05:53 PM
I'm trying not to be too negative, but what is the point?

I don't know how else to say it, but to describe what I can observe. I highlighted these two items because of the conflict between them highlights the problem.

The football team has its routine and will follow it. The University is unwilling to make changes to a weekday schedule to accommodate a football game on campus.

Bob Green
11-10-2014, 06:00 PM
I understand and didn't intend to come across like I was "shooting the messenger" it just seems silly to conduct the Devil Walk before the parking lots open. The walk should be cancelled.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2014, 06:19 PM
I understand and didn't intend to come across like I was "shooting the messenger" it just seems silly to conduct the Devil Walk before the parking lots open. The walk should be cancelled.
It's OK, Bob. I didn't take it that way. I think Coach is following the regular game day routine. Maybe there's a lesson there for the administrators and others not willing to be flexible and cooperative in doing what's needed to host this game.

Dev11
11-10-2014, 06:35 PM
It's OK, Bob. I didn't take it that way. I think Coach is following the regular game day routine. Maybe there's a lesson there for the administrators and others not willing to be flexible and cooperative in doing what's needed to host this game.

I know we say that the individual schools don't really have a say in when the Saturday games are scheduled but what goes into determining the Thursday slots? Does Duke have to present a plan for how it will accommodate a Thursday game, and who approves that plan? It seems like a huge effort, with all of the normal university activity happening.

CameronBornAndBred
11-10-2014, 06:38 PM
The team is going to get run over by rush hour traffic, unc wins due to forfeit since everyone including Coach Cut is in the E.R..

wwtong
11-10-2014, 06:45 PM
I could see the parking issue as the university not being accustomed to hosting a weekday game....However you would think that they would at least try to make an effort to put their best foot forward.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2014, 06:48 PM
I know we say that the individual schools don't really have a say in when the Saturday games are scheduled but what goes into determining the Thursday slots? Does Duke have to present a plan for how it will accommodate a Thursday game, and who approves that plan? It seems like a huge effort, with all of the normal university activity happening.

The conference TV contracts call for every school to host a Thursday or Friday night game every so many years. This is the first time Duke has been asked to host. I don't have access to those contracts, so I can't say whether the hosting school has to present any sort of plan for dealing with such an invasion during the week.

The main point is that it's going to be a challenging evening for everyone leaving from work throughout the area and for those seeking to get to campus and park before the game. Those planning to attend the game need to plan accordingly and be patient.

uh_no
11-10-2014, 06:58 PM
I could see the parking issue as the university not being accustomed to hosting a weekday game....However you would think that they would at least try to make an effort to put their best foot forward.

as was beaten to death in the other threads, the academic side, professors, deans, department chairs, staff...simply aren't going to cancel classes and events several hours before a football game. They paid good money for those parking passes, and ought to be able to park in their spot (thousands a year, I believe...)

roywhite
11-10-2014, 07:00 PM
The conference TV contracts call for every school to host a Thursday or Friday night game every so many years. This is the first time Duke has been asked to host. I don't have access to those contracts, so I can't say whether the hosting school has to present any sort of plan for dealing with such an invasion during the week.

The main point is that it's going to be a challenging evening for everyone leaving from work throughout the area and for those seeking to get to campus and park before the game. Those planning to attend the game need to plan accordingly and be patient.

Tailgate at DBAP and catch a shuttle?

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-10-2014, 07:25 PM
Perfect time for students to step up and BE THERE IN FORCE for the team walk if the rest of us are kept at arm's length. It would be easy enough for them to saunter over there!!
Just sayin'.
Love, Ima

CameronBornAndBred
11-10-2014, 07:31 PM
Perfect time for students to step up and BE THERE IN FORCE for the team walk if the rest of us are kept at arm's length. It would be easy enough for them to saunter over there!!
Just sayin'.
Love, Ima
I feel bad for the folks that have had this day on their calendar for months, spent tickets on air fare and hotels, knowing that their experience on game day will be limited to the game itself. (If they can park in time to catch kickoff.)

subzero02
11-10-2014, 07:58 PM
Do not read...

allenmurray
11-10-2014, 07:59 PM
We won't have to worry about ESPN asking us to do this again given the big middle finger the administration has shown. Will we get out tent fee pro-rated as they are denying is use of something we paid for.

Idiots

Duvall
11-10-2014, 08:01 PM
We won't have to worry about ESPN asking us to do this again given the big middle finger the administration has shown. Will we get out tent fee pro-rated as they are denying is use of something we paid for.

Idiots

Well, it does seem to be more trouble than it's worth.

OldPhiKap
11-10-2014, 08:23 PM
How is national exposure for our football team, and a rivalry game with the Heels, "more trouble than it's worth" ?!?

TNTDevil
11-10-2014, 08:24 PM
This is, yet another, prime example of the Duke Administration struggling to understand Duke Football and its fans. While Duke has worked very, very hard, not-to-mention, quickly to become familiar with Duke Football Fans' wallets, they've done very little to learn about football fan culture.

I could understand them not wanting to cancel classes and, quite honestly, I wouldn't see any call for doing so. If students want to blow-off class in order to tailgate, that's on them. But, would it have been that disruptive to the University community to clear the Card lot so that BDA could at least get set-up and be at full-throat for the Devil Walk? In fact, you wouldn't even need to clear the entire lot, just clear the portion where the tents are erected.

The ESPN Thursday night game was conceived as a national showcase for the schools playing, especially the home team (well, it used to be more so but, that's another thread). One would think that Duke would want to feature all of its football assets with this kind of spotlight focused on the program, especially BDA. Just as K-ville adds depth to the Duke Basketball story, BDA compliments Duke Football.

This decision appears to be on par with hosting College GameDay yet preventing the fans from congregating behind the set.

dpslaw
11-10-2014, 09:38 PM
Clearing the Card Gym lot early Thursday morning would hardly inconvenience anyone. On the other hand, not clearing the lot at a reasonable time will be more than a mere inconvenience for a lot of folks.

This is really unbelievably stupid.

AustinDevil
11-10-2014, 10:49 PM
Perhaps we need a targeted social media campaign focusing on revising this decision as to all/part of Card lot and BDA ...

CameronBornAndBred
11-10-2014, 10:58 PM
I park in the Card lot for tailgates, but this stupidity isn't about just clearing that one lot. What's the point of clearing room for Blue Devil Alley if nobody else will be there in time to enjoy it? Duke needs to find a way to have ALL of the lots open, at least 4 hours before game time. That is not being overly unreasonable on either side. The way they have it, NO lots will be open. So at rush hour, everyone will be coming and going on the highway, and on campus everyone will be coming and going. True genius.
This is going to be an insanely packed game, remember that. It's not like we are playing some team that doesn't travel well. UNC is going to be showing up in droves, along with the rest of us.
Absolute nightmare in the making. Hell is leaving Chapel Hill and coming to Durham for the night.

Newton_14
11-10-2014, 11:09 PM
I park in the Card lot for tailgates, but this stupidity isn't about just clearing that one lot. What's the point of clearing room for Blue Devil Alley if nobody else will be there in time to enjoy it? Duke needs to find a way to have ALL of the lots open, at least 4 hours before game time. That is not being overly unreasonable on either side. The way they have it, NO lots will be open. So at rush hour, everyone will be coming and going on the highway, and on campus everyone will be coming and going. True genius.
This is going to be an insanely packed game, remember that. It's not like we are playing some team that doesn't travel well. UNC is going to be showing up in droves, along with the rest of us.
Absolute nightmare in the making. Hell is leaving Chapel Hill and coming to Durham for the night.

I will be coming from work in the Triangle and suppose I will have to park on 147 if this decision isn't changed. This is nuts. Surely someone will come to their senses and make changes to avoid this nightmare??

This game is going to draw 30K+ if not more than that... Unless the scandal somehow lessens the number of heel fans that show up, which aint likely. Too many still in denial. They will come in droves.

uh_no
11-10-2014, 11:25 PM
I park in the Card lot for tailgates, but this stupidity isn't about just clearing that one lot. What's the point of clearing room for Blue Devil Alley if nobody else will be there in time to enjoy it? Duke needs to find a way to have ALL of the lots open, at least 4 hours before game time. That is not being overly unreasonable on either side. The way they have it, NO lots will be open. So at rush hour, everyone will be coming and going on the highway, and on campus everyone will be coming and going. True genius.
This is going to be an insanely packed game, remember that. It's not like we are playing some team that doesn't travel well. UNC is going to be showing up in droves, along with the rest of us.
Absolute nightmare in the making. Hell is leaving Chapel Hill and coming to Durham for the night.

Honestly, I wonder if people are kidding, but it doesn't seem like they are

751 lot: where should the business students who commute to class park for their afternoon classes
Blue Zone: where should the undergrads move their cars....they usually move them to the H lot, but that is taken by health center employees during the day....maybe we should shut down the hospital for a football game? or maybe they can just tow the students cars to a tow lot....duke parking seems to love doing that
Edens/card lot: should the grad students who commute and park there just stay at home for the day?
CIrcuit lots: maybe we should tell the professors and researchers to take the bus that day

Come on. We pretend here that everything at duke revolves around sports and football and THIS GAME, but you know what, it doesn't at duke. THe administration isn't "giving us the middle finger," they're paying attention to the majority needs of the school. You know what happens when you let athletics run a university? you get UNC.

Wallace wade could be empty next thursday, and you know what? DUke university would be just the same the next day. Duke is not going to go belly up if there are a few empty seats on national tv. We all want to see a full stadium, but pretending like the world revolves around getting butts in seats next week is simply not true. The administration is not going to bend to the will of the football team and ESPN.

You'll all be much happier when you realize the 16 million dollars that flows from the university coffers to athletics every year...money that could be spent elsewhere...on professor raises, on financial aid, on lab equipment. But you know what? it's not. It goes to help sustain a top notch athletics department...and if the price we pay is that we can't tail gate as much as we feel like we're "entitled" to before a big game, then so be it.

And i have no sympathy for those saying they "paid for a tent and aren't allowed to use it"....you know what? people with card lot passes paid $500 this year to park there every day from 9-5....You're trying to party and drink before a game. They're just trying to do their jobs.

Honestly the entitlement that's coming across on this thread is sickening.

allenmurray
11-10-2014, 11:43 PM
If this was a regular event I would agree - it is a one time occurance. The $ comment I made in jest

CameronBornAndBred
11-10-2014, 11:46 PM
Honestly the entitlement that's coming across on this thread is sickening.
Wow. Did I or anyone else in this thread say Duke should shut down for the day? My solution is simply to evade a logistical nightmare, one that will reflect badly on the university as a whole. Some times the HOST school will make certain considerations to actually play a host. 4 hours before game time is 3:30. That is a total of two hours worked out to make something amenable happen.
I hope it never snows in Durham this year, I'd hate for Duke to have make inconveniences for the local community on the insistence that everyone show up for work and school those days too.

gep
11-10-2014, 11:48 PM
... Absolute nightmare in the making. Hell is leaving Chapel Hill and coming to Durham for the night.

In more ways than one... At least we have the DEVIL to keep hell in check:cool:

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 12:14 AM
Honestly, I wonder if people are kidding, but it doesn't seem like they are

751 lot: where should the business students who commute to class park for their afternoon classes
Blue Zone: where should the undergrads move their cars....they usually move them to the H lot, but that is taken by health center employees during the day....maybe we should shut down the hospital for a football game? or maybe they can just tow the students cars to a tow lot....duke parking seems to love doing that
Edens/card lot: should the grad students who commute and park there just stay at home for the day?
CIrcuit lots: maybe we should tell the professors and researchers to take the bus that day

Come on. We pretend here that everything at duke revolves around sports and football and THIS GAME, but you know what, it doesn't at duke. THe administration isn't "giving us the middle finger," they're paying attention to the majority needs of the school. You know what happens when you let athletics run a university? you get UNC.

Wallace wade could be empty next thursday, and you know what? DUke university would be just the same the next day. Duke is not going to go belly up if there are a few empty seats on national tv. We all want to see a full stadium, but pretending like the world revolves around getting butts in seats next week is simply not true. The administration is not going to bend to the will of the football team and ESPN.

You'll all be much happier when you realize the 16 million dollars that flows from the university coffers to athletics every year...money that could be spent elsewhere...on professor raises, on financial aid, on lab equipment. But you know what? it's not. It goes to help sustain a top notch athletics department...and if the price we pay is that we can't tail gate as much as we feel like we're "entitled" to before a big game, then so be it.

And i have no sympathy for those saying they "paid for a tent and aren't allowed to use it"....you know what? people with card lot passes paid $500 this year to park there every day from 9-5....You're trying to party and drink before a game. They're just trying to do their jobs.

Honestly the entitlement that's coming across on this thread is sickening.

Agree on all counts. I'd be curious as to how Stanford dealt with Thursday night games. This comparison is actually valid now that we're approaching their level in football.
Also, why can't people park in Durham parking lots, walk to East Campus/take Bull City Connector, and take the free C-1 bus to West Campus? There's parking lots ~15 min. walk away from East Campus, and it's a 3 min. bus ride to West.

uh_no
11-11-2014, 12:16 AM
Wow. Did I or anyone else in this thread say Duke should shut down for the day? My solution is simply to evade a logistical nightmare, one that will reflect badly on the university as a whole. Some times the HOST school will make certain considerations to actually play a host. 4 hours before game time is 3:30. That is a total of two hours worked out to make something amenable happen.
I hope it never snows in Durham this year, I'd hate for Duke to have make inconveniences for the local community on the insistence that everyone show up for work and school those days too.

It doesn't reflect on the university as a whole. it reflects on the fan base and the football team. most people, believe it or not, couldn't give two shakes about next Thursday's game....aside from a handful of other ACC fans, i can't imagine that much of anyone else will really care.

"jeez mom, I was going to go to duke to major in bio-medical engineering...but that game just wasn't that full...better go to another school instead"

"We were going to rank Duke #7 this year in our "top universitites" ranking....but they just can't seem to get a crowd out for their thursday night footbal games. we'll give the award to UNC, who at least can fill up their stadium"

and did you really compare a football game to this: http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/weather/2014/02/13/13390408/13390408-1392352077-640x360.jpg

people aren't risking death to get the football game

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 12:20 AM
I hope it never snows in Durham this year, I'd hate for Duke to have make inconveniences for the local community on the insistence that everyone show up for work and school those days too.

Not sure if serious. Snow is dangerous. Football is entertainment.

There are legitimate needs for these parking lots and nowhere for these cars to park elsewhere. Tell Duke Med to take the day off early so undergrad/grad students can park there for a football game?

If people are complaining that 5:30pm is too late, then I assume they were planning to come much earlier. Why not get here earlier like you planned and park farther away and walk a bit longer? http://www.bullcityconnector.org/map.html

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-11-2014, 06:13 AM
Came here to make the comments regarding "does anyone else see the irony of a thread insisting the university ought to make campus-wide accomodations for the football program IMMEDIATELY congruent to a thread that mocks UNC for placing too elevated an importance on athletics."

But I see my work has been done for me.

And yes, I know it is only one day. And I know it is parking. And I know football needs the support. But it is a slippery slope and the good folks of this board have been relishing in some serious stone throwing lately.

Determined fans will be there. I want to see if students show up.

roywhite
11-11-2014, 06:39 AM
Wow. Did I or anyone else in this thread say Duke should shut down for the day? My solution is simply to evade a logistical nightmare, one that will reflect badly on the university as a whole. Some times the HOST school will make certain considerations to actually play a host. 4 hours before game time is 3:30. That is a total of two hours worked out to make something amenable happen.


Agree. Seems very reasonable.

Some other posts here seem to take joy in the school's inflexible handling of logistics and a likely traffic mess, that it somehow proves our priorities as a University.

mgtr
11-11-2014, 07:26 AM
Agree on all counts. I'd be curious as to how Stanford dealt with Thursday night games. This comparison is actually valid now that we're approaching their level in football.
Also, why can't people park in Durham parking lots, walk to East Campus/take Bull City Connector, and take the free C-1 bus to West Campus? There's parking lots ~15 min. walk away from East Campus, and it's a 3 min. bus ride to West.

Stanford has a much bigger campus (the "farm") and the football stadium is not right up against the main quad. If, from other than athletic department perspective, the game is not that important to Duke, why wasn't it moved to a neutral site? Or the administration could have told ESPN, "sorry, not important to us!!"

OldPhiKap
11-11-2014, 07:45 AM
This is not about entitlement. It is about failing to make a reasonable accommodation for a single day event that every other school in the nation would recognize as a marketing coup.

It is also about traffic safety, and accommodating people whose money Duke has already taken who are attending the game.

Good Lord, this is about opening a few parking lots on one frigging day a mere two hours earlier than normal. If that puts you out too much, well, wait until you get out in the real world.

Whoever it is over at Allen-Murray who decides these things needs a nice email box flash mailing.

CameronBornAndBred
11-11-2014, 09:05 AM
A juxtaposition of attitude. But then again, it is only Louisville and we all know they don't care about academics. :(

Along with packing a sold-out crowd of 55,000 into Papa John's Cardinal Stadium, there's a regular evening commute to worry about before the 7:30 p.m. kickoff along with a Future Farmers of America convention in town and regular racing at Churchill Downs.
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2014/10/29/louisville-advises-football-fans-arrive-early-florida-state-game/18121309/

uh_no
11-11-2014, 09:18 AM
This is not about entitlement. It is about failing to make a reasonable accommodation for a single day event that every other school in the nation would recognize as a marketing coup.

It is also about traffic safety, and accommodating people whose money Duke has already taken who are attending the game.

Good Lord, this is about opening a few parking lots on one frigging day a mere two hours earlier than normal. If that puts you out too much, well, wait until you get out in the real world.

Whoever it is over at Allen-Murray who decides these things needs a nice email box flash mailing.

So the question remains outstanding, where do you put the cars that are in those lots? Those lots are nearly 100% full day in and day out. I see a lot of complaining, and a lot of high level "just open the lots," but very little concern for the actual problems and logistics of doing so.

Duvall
11-11-2014, 09:36 AM
So the question remains outstanding, where do you put the cars that are in those lots? Those lots are nearly 100% full day in and day out. I see a lot of complaining, and a lot of high level "just open the lots," but very little concern for the actual problems and logistics of doing so.

Yes, but are the daily operations of a research university really more important than providing ESPN with primetime inventory? Think about it.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 09:55 AM
Yes, but are the daily operations of a research university really more important than providing ESPN with primetime inventory? Think about it.

I guess we can just reschedule all the patients at Duke Med that afternoon, so the medical staff can have the afternoon off, so students can park in the DUHS parking lots, so we can open the other parking lots, so people can park as close as possible to the football game.

Sheesh, DUHS should have known there was a Thursday night game!

OldPhiKap
11-11-2014, 10:02 AM
So the question remains outstanding, where do you put the cars that are in those lots? Those lots are nearly 100% full day in and day out. I see a lot of complaining, and a lot of high level "just open the lots," but very little concern for the actual problems and logistics of doing so.


Yes, but are the daily operations of a research university really more important than providing ESPN with primetime inventory? Think about it.

Don't you think that the administration at Duke is able to figure out how to make a two-hour accommodation like this? Really?

I work in a downtown office. We have a Veteran's Day parade today. This closes many downtown streets for half a day. I will have difficulty getting in and out of my office, and will have to wait in line longer for lunch. Downtown parking will be a pain in the rump, for me and my clients. Somehow, though, we all survive.

And no one is suggesting that football trumps academics or patient health, those are straw-man arguments. I am merely suggesting that the two can co-exist with a little reasonable accommodation and compromise. These are skills that our university should be teaching, as it is part of the functioning of the real world. All of life is an imposition of some sort -- there is a thing called balance.

If you don't like football, fine. I get it. But from a general marketing perspective, the spotlight is on Duke next Thursday night. Duke has a commitment to the folks who purchased tickets to make sure they can get to the game on time. I am baffled by why this is not a simple matter to fix or the absolutist intransigence that apparently exists to even contemplate a solution here. That is very myopic at best IMHO.

Real life is about finding a compromise.

asbcheeks
11-11-2014, 10:12 AM
So the question remains outstanding, where do you put the cars that are in those lots? Those lots are nearly 100% full day in and day out. I see a lot of complaining, and a lot of high level "just open the lots," but very little concern for the actual problems and logistics of doing so.

Why couldn't Duke ask students/staff to park remotely at DBAP for the day, and run shuttles for them (as they are planning to do for tailgaters)? Inconvenient, but reasonable for a one-off event in my mind.

Reilly
11-11-2014, 10:13 AM
Does Duke have a fixed work day for its employees? Such as 8-5 or or 8-4 or something like that? I would think allowing those who can (and want to) to skip out an hour early would relieve some of the logistical pressure. If you're running the MRI machine in the hospital, then maybe no, no break for you. But if you're planning a conference, reading admissions files, maybe even cleaning up the campus, knock off an hour early -- have that be encouraged and approved of. Could be a nice morale-boost. Also, does the university have any sort of approved telework program? Letting employees work from home, as so much of work these days for many occupations is computer- and email-based, and can be done from home.

uh_no
11-11-2014, 10:19 AM
Why couldn't Duke ask students/staff to park remotely at DBAP for the day, and run shuttles for them (as they are planning to do for tailgaters)? Inconvenient, but reasonable for a one-off event in my mind.

So i'm not sure if any of us our professors, but I did ask a professor, and this was his response:


Telling the faculty they would need to remove their cars earlier than 5 on a school day in the throes of midterm season 2? Havoc.

asbcheeks
11-11-2014, 10:34 AM
So i'm not sure if any of us our professors, but I did ask a professor, and this was his response:

Not what I mean. Surely professors could manage a single day inconvenience of having to park remotely (for the entire day) and take a shuttle to/from campus. Even in midterm season.

Potato Head
11-11-2014, 10:43 AM
Not what I mean. Surely professors could manage a single day inconvenience of having to park remotely (for the entire day) and take a shuttle to/from campus. Even in midterm season.

Surely the Iron Dukes could manage a single game of having to park off campus and take a shuttle to the stadium. Unlike other universities in this state, there is actually a reason why Duke exists and it's not to field sports teams.

asbcheeks
11-11-2014, 10:50 AM
Surely the Iron Dukes could manage a single game of having to park off campus and take a shuttle to the stadium. Unlike other universities in this state, there is actually a reason why Duke exists and it's not to field sports teams.

Of course they could (and it appears they will). Uh_no asked for a logistical alternative in the context of this conversation. Reasonable minds can disagree as to what should take precedence, and I'm disappointed personally as I'm flying down for this game and hoped Duke would attempt to better accommodate attendees for this special, one time event, but I understand Duke's decision.

Potato Head
11-11-2014, 10:57 AM
Of course they could (and it appears they will).

Well, they'll get their regular parking lot a bit later than they might have wanted. And it'll still be a bother for students/staff/employees. So the compromise appears to be to inconvenience everyone.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-11-2014, 10:59 AM
Don't you think that the administration at Duke is able to figure out how to make a two-hour accommodation like this? Really?

I work in a downtown office. We have a Veteran's Day parade today. This closes many downtown streets for half a day. I will have difficulty getting in and out of my office, and will have to wait in line longer for lunch. Downtown parking will be a pain in the rump, for me and my clients. Somehow, though, we all survive.

And no one is suggesting that football trumps academics or patient health, those are straw-man arguments. I am merely suggesting that the two can co-exist with a little reasonable accommodation and compromise. These are skills that our university should be teaching, as it is part of the functioning of the real world. All of life is an imposition of some sort -- there is a thing called balance.

If you don't like football, fine. I get it. But from a general marketing perspective, the spotlight is on Duke next Thursday night. Duke has a commitment to the folks who purchased tickets to make sure they can get to the game on time. I am baffled by why this is not a simple matter to fix or the absolutist intransigence that apparently exists to even contemplate a solution here. That is very myopic at best IMHO.

Real life is about finding a compromise.

I like Duke football quite a bit, thank you. I suffered along with most of the other people on this board following along through season after season of misery. I'm not even suggesting that there isn't a conceivable compromise that will work out for the best for all parties.

All I did was note the irony of "Surely we can make accommodations for our football team!" and the juxtaposition with the UNC scandal thread where we have all been piling on with comments about how they made too many accommodations for their football team.

Yes, Duke will be on a national stage that night - let's show them lots of reasons to contrast the two schools rather than to compare them.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 11:01 AM
Well, they'll get their regular parking lot a bit later than they might have wanted. And it'll still be a bother for students/staff/employees. So the compromise appears to be to inconvenience everyone.

Sounds like the textbook definition of a great compromise to me! GO DUKE!

TNTDevil
11-11-2014, 11:04 AM
~snip~
Come on. We pretend here that everything at duke revolves around sports and football and THIS GAME, but you know what, it doesn't at duke. THe administration isn't "giving us the middle finger," they're paying attention to the majority needs of the school. You know what happens when you let athletics run a university? you get UNC. So, accommodating football fans for one afternoon leads to paper classes, potentially losing accreditation and disgrace for Duke? Ummm...one would think that Duke's Administration could have seen that coming and refused the game in order to protect students and alumni from future disgrace. Oh...but wait, they did see it coming when they signed the contract and accepted the check from ESPN. From what I understand, Duke is contractually obligated to host one of these games once every three years, if this one day, every three years, is whats leads to us becoming the next academically disgraced school everybody should get out now!


Wallace wade could be empty next thursday, and you know what? DUke university would be just the same the next day. Duke is not going to go belly up if there are a few empty seats on national tv. We all want to see a full stadium, but pretending like the world revolves around getting butts in seats next week is simply not true. The administration is not going to bend to the will of the football team and ESPN.

You'll all be much happier when you realize the 16 million dollars that flows from the university coffers to athletics every year...money that could be spent elsewhere...on professor raises, on financial aid, on lab equipment. But you know what? it's not. It goes to help sustain a top notch athletics department...and if the price we pay is that we can't tail gate as much as we feel like we're "entitled" to before a big game, then so be it.News flash...the "revenue sports" within the Athletics Departments also bring in cash (along with other intangibles) to the University. It may pale in comparison to the revenue generated from alumni donations, etc. but the football program is far from being some leech on the university's revenue stream.


And i have no sympathy for those saying they "paid for a tent and aren't allowed to use it"....you know what? people with card lot passes paid $500 this year to park there every day from 9-5....You're trying to party and drink before a game. They're just trying to do their jobs.So, should we assume you're totally okay with all the marketing Duke invested in selling this game? You're totally cool with all the fans (of both schools) who spent their money on tickets, some on air/car travel, hotel rooms etc. getting shorted? Most of the football fans who park in the Card and "B" lots are all Iron Dukes, who invest annual sums of money just for the privilege of buying parking passes for 6-7 days a year. I'd be willing to bet that their parking expense is far greater than the $1.36 invested by the employees who bought parking passes for work.


Honestly the entitlement that's coming across on this thread is sickening.Clearly, you have a weak stomach. I don't detect any "entitlement", only folks whom are asking for reasonable accommodation so that they can enjoy an event on which they've spent good money.


It doesn't reflect on the university as a whole. it reflects on the fan base and the football team. most people, believe it or not, couldn't give two shakes about next Thursday's game....aside from a handful of other ACC fans, i can't imagine that much of anyone else will really care.

"jeez mom, I was going to go to duke to major in bio-medical engineering...but that game just wasn't that full...better go to another school instead"

"We were going to rank Duke #7 this year in our "top universitites" ranking....but they just can't seem to get a crowd out for their thursday night footbal games. we'll give the award to UNC, who at least can fill up their stadium"

and did you really compare a football game to this: http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/weather/2014/02/13/13390408/13390408-1392352077-640x360.jpg

people aren't risking death to get the football gameMost of this is, of course, a strawman. Nobody has argued that a poor showing for this event will somehow deny the University some future benefit. What has been argued, and clearly missed by most with this line of argument, is that this will be a 3.5+ hour commercial, broadcast nationally, and for which Duke gets paid as opposed to having to buy. So, as I asked earlier, why wouldn't the school put all of its best assets on display?

As for CB&B's snow comment, it seems his intent was clear...it's one day (and not even a full day at that). Duke, and every other institute of higher learning, seems to survive one-day closures for other reasons.


Came here to make the comments regarding "does anyone else see the irony of a thread insisting the university ought to make campus-wide accomodations for the football program IMMEDIATELY congruent to a thread that mocks UNC for placing too elevated an importance on athletics."

But I see my work has been done for me.

And yes, I know it is only one day. And I know it is parking. And I know football needs the support. But it is a slippery slope and the good folks of this board have been relishing in some serious stone throwing lately.

Determined fans will be there. I want to see if students show up.
Does anyone else see the ridiculousness in people arguing that somehow, by making very minor accommodations for the football fan base to attend a special event agreed to, and vigorously marketed by, Duke University (leaving aside profiting from), will...somehow...lead to Duke initiating and perpetrating a years/decades long program of academic fraud?


Stanford has a much bigger campus (the "farm") and the football stadium is not right up against the main quad. If, from other than athletic department perspective, the game is not that important to Duke, why wasn't it moved to a neutral site? Or the administration could have told ESPN, "sorry, not important to us!!"Word. And, the answer is clear- the administration and the ACC wanted the kay$h. And, as I stated previously, they're totally failing to maximize the benefit of this 3.5+ hour infomercial.


So the question remains outstanding, where do you put the cars that are in those lots? Those lots are nearly 100% full day in and day out. I see a lot of complaining, and a lot of high level "just open the lots," but very little concern for the actual problems and logistics of doing so.This is an excellent question. But, why is it up to the football fans/tailgate community to develop a plan? The administration was aware this was coming for, at a minimum, two years and it clearly demonstrates what I stated in the first line of my first post in the thread:
TNTDevil sez: This is, yet another, prime example of the Duke Administration struggling to understand Duke Football and its fans. While Duke has worked very, very hard, not-to-mention, quickly to become familiar with Duke Football Fans' wallets, they've done very little to learn about football fan culture.

arnie
11-11-2014, 11:15 AM
So, accommodating football fans for one afternoon leads to paper classes, potentially losing accreditation and disgrace for Duke? Ummm...one would think that Duke's Administration could have seen that coming and refused the game in order to protect students and alumni from future disgrace. Oh...but wait, they did see it coming when they signed the contract and accepted the check from ESPN. From what I understand, Duke is contractually obligated to host one of these games once every three years, if this one day, every three years, is whats leads to us becoming the next academically disgraced school everybody should get out now!

News flash...the "revenue sports" within the Athletics Departments also bring in cash (along with other intangibles) to the University. It may pale in comparison to the revenue generated from alumni donations, etc. but the football program is far from being some leech on the university's revenue stream.

So, should we assume you're totally okay with all the marketing Duke invested in selling this game? You're totally cool with all the fans (of both schools) who spent their money on tickets, some on air/car travel, hotel rooms etc. getting shorted? Most of the football fans who park in the Card and "B" lots are all Iron Dukes, who invest annual sums of money just for the privilege of buying parking passes for 6-7 days a year. I'd be willing to bet that their parking expense is far greater than the $1.36 invested by the employees who bought parking passes for work.

Clearly, you have a weak stomach. I don't detect any "entitlement", only folks whom are asking for reasonable accommodation so that they can enjoy an event on which they've spent good money.

Most of this is, of course, a strawman. Nobody has argued that a poor showing for this event will somehow deny the University some future benefit. What has been argued, and clearly missed by most with this line of argument, is that this will be a 3.5+ hour commercial, broadcast nationally, and for which Duke gets paid as opposed to having to buy. So, as I asked earlier, why wouldn't the school put all of its best assets on display?

As for CB&B's snow comment, it seems his intent was clear...it's one day (and not even a full day at that). Duke, and every other institute of higher learning, seems to survive one-day closures for other reasons.


Does anyone else see the ridiculousness in people arguing that somehow, by making very minor accommodations for the football fan base to attend a special event agreed to, and vigorously marketed by, Duke University (leaving aside profiting from), will...somehow...lead to Duke initiating and perpetrating a years/decades long program of academic fraud?

Word. And, the answer is clear- the administration and the ACC wanted the kay$h. And, as I stated previously, they're totally failing to maximize the benefit of this 3.5+ hour infomercial.

This is an excellent question. But, why is it up to the football fans/tailgate community to develop a plan? The administration was aware this was coming for, at a minimum, two years and it clearly demonstrates what I stated in the first line of my first post in the thread:
Enjoyed your summary. If Duke can't make small changes once every three years for a weeknight football game, we are in the wrong conference and football division. Got to wonder what Cut will be thinking when he sees 15k fans at kickoff and nobody at the Walk. Hopefully Admin can figure this out soon.

OldPhiKap
11-11-2014, 11:16 AM
I like Duke football quite a bit, thank you. I suffered along with most of the other people on this board following along through season after season of misery. I'm not even suggesting that there isn't a conceivable compromise that will work out for the best for all parties.

All I did was note the irony of "Surely we can make accommodations for our football team!" and the juxtaposition with the UNC scandal thread where we have all been piling on with comments about how they made too many accommodations for their football team.

Yes, Duke will be on a national stage that night - let's show them lots of reasons to contrast the two schools rather than to compare them.

I apologize, then, if I misread the intent of your post. OPK

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-11-2014, 11:27 AM
Does anyone else see the ridiculousness in people arguing that somehow, by making very minor accommodations for the football fan base to attend a special event agreed to, and vigorously marketed by, Duke University (leaving aside profiting from), will...somehow...lead to Duke initiating and perpetrating a years/decades long program of academic fraud?

Holy moly, I wasn't trying to get into a peeing contest with the Powers That Be on this board. Just noting that some compromises will be made and that LOTS of time and energy has been put forth poking fun at UNC for making some OTHER compromises.

I love Duke, I love Duke football, I want them to succeed. I'm not suggesting that by asking parking lots to be clear two hours early on a weekday, Duke will fall into a tailspin of corruption. I'm just asking folks to acknowledge that Duke can't pretend to be above the fray by saying "academics above all else."

I hope we fill the stadium with the proper color of Blue for game day, and then I hope we whoop the Tar Heels.

Please, everyone take a deep breath and remember that we are all on the same side here.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 11:34 AM
Revenue sports are profitable, but these profits go to support the athletic department, which still operates at an annual loss of ~$15 million. The academic side steps up to the plate every year and donates $15 million to athletics. $15M that could go towards financial aid, faculty recruitment, and research. That amount is enough to halve the loans of all Duke students (Duke students take out a total of $30M in loans a year). Duke academics doesn't owe the athletics side anything.

Sorry, I'm not exactly seeing how all the fans are getting shorted. There's many ways to get to Duke without parking in one of those lots. As Louis CK puts it, "It's not my FAVORITE thing!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQSRPMFDTSs
Suitable for work by the way. I'm just not seeing how all these dedicated Duke fans are getting "screwed." I mean, if one is so dedicated, could you not just park a bit further away and get there in time for Blue Devil Walk? Sounds like a lot of people have flown in, so the morning and afternoon are free right?

And come on, we can have some trust in Duke Athletics administration, specifically Dr. White. Dr. White is an extremely intelligent/capable AD, and if there were no good reasons for not opening the parking lots early, he would not have stood for it. He came from a school with a marquee football program, so he's more than familiar with how things are done.

I believe Duke has encouraged managers to let their employees leave as early as possible next Thursday.

Henderson
11-11-2014, 11:45 AM
I'm just not seeing how all these dedicated Duke fans are getting "screwed." I mean, if one is so dedicated, could you not just park a bit further away and get there in time for Blue Devil Walk? Sounds like a lot of people have flown in, so the morning and afternoon are free right?


My strategy for holiday shopping is to park far away and walk. How about a "Million Fan March" from an agreed-upon distant location?

flyingdutchdevil
11-11-2014, 11:47 AM
Revenue sports are profitable, but these profits go to support the athletic department, which still operates at an annual loss of ~$15 million. The academic side steps up to the plate every year and donates $15 million to athletics. $15M that could go towards financial aid, faculty recruitment, and research. That amount is enough to halve the loans of all Duke students (Duke students take out a total of $30M in loans a year). Duke academics doesn't owe the athletics side anything.

Sorry, I'm not exactly seeing how all the fans are getting shorted. There's many ways to get to Duke without parking in one of those lots. As Louis CK puts it, "It's not my FAVORITE thing!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQSRPMFDTSs
Suitable for work by the way. I'm just not seeing how all these dedicated Duke fans are getting "screwed." I mean, if one is so dedicated, could you not just park a bit further away and get there in time for Blue Devil Walk? Sounds like a lot of people have flown in, so the morning and afternoon are free right?

And come on, we can have some trust in Duke Athletics administration, specifically Dr. White. Dr. White is an extremely intelligent/capable AD, and if there were no good reasons for not opening the parking lots early, he would not have stood for it. He came from a school with a marquee football program, so he's more than familiar with how things are done.

I believe Duke has encouraged managers to let their employees leave as early as possible next Thursday.

Stop being so rational. Have you read these last three pages? ;)

Bob Green
11-11-2014, 11:58 AM
I mean, if one is so dedicated, could you not just park a bit further away and get there in time for Blue Devil Walk?

I'm trying to keep my whining in this thread to a minimum; however, I've already:

1.) Purchased four Duke football season tickets
2.) Taken two days annual leave (Thursday and Friday)
3.) Rented a hotel room, which supports the local economy, because it is a night game

Plus, I will be:

1.) Driving 3.5 hours from Norfolk like I do for every home game (9 hours to Syracuse sucks by the way)
2.) Eating dinner in a local restaurant (because tailgate appears not to be an option) so there is that supports the local economy thing again.

Now you want me to park further away? Where? Is there safe local parking with commute options available? I'm pretty much resigned to sitting in rush hour traffic, parking in my normal location in the Chemistry Lot (another $10 for Duke) around six and walking to the stadium via Blue Devil Alley to exchange some last minute conversation with my tailgate buddies.

And finally, watch Duke whip Carolina's butt!

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 12:07 PM
I'm trying to keep my whining in this thread to a minimum; however, I've already:

1.) Purchased four Duke football season tickets
2.) Taken two days annual leave (Thursday and Friday)
3.) Rented a hotel room, which supports the local economy, because it is a night game

Plus, I will be:

1.) Driving 3.5 hours from Norfolk like I do for every home game (9 hours to Syracuse sucks by the way)
2.) Eating dinner in a local restaurant (because tailgate appears not to be an option) so there is that supports the local economy thing again.

Now you want me to park further away? Where? Is there safe local parking with commute options available? I'm pretty much resigned to sitting in rush hour traffic, parking in my normal location in the Chemistry Lot (another $10 for Duke) around six and walking to the stadium via Blue Devil Alley to exchange some last minute conversation with my tailgate buddies.

And finally, watch Duke whip Carolina's butt!

Thanks for making the trip. Go Duke!

Bull City Connector runs through West Campus and several dedicated parking structures: http://www.bullcityconnector.org/map.html

According to GoDuke: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209739503
• Off Campus General Public Shuttle Lots (Tailgating Permitted) – will be available beginning at 12:00 PM on Thursday, November 20th. For fans who want to arrive earlier in the day, parking will open at 12:00 PM at the Elkins Lot next to the Durham Bulls Athletic Park with shuttle service to campus running from 12:00 PM to 2:30 AM.

Also, the parking and shuttle buses are free. Looks like a suitable compromise to me. BEAT VT! Then BEAT UNC! lol at the shuttle buses running to 2:30AM, should be enough time to celebrate eh?

Bob Green
11-11-2014, 12:12 PM
Bull City Connector runs through West Campus and several dedicated parking structures: http://www.bullcityconnector.org/map.html



According to the link, Bull City Connector stops running at 10 pm so that is not an option seeing as folks will need to get back to their car after the game. DBAP with shuttle service seems like a doable alternative.

TNTDevil
11-11-2014, 12:14 PM
Surely the Iron Dukes could manage a single game of having to park off campus and take a shuttle to the stadium. Unlike other universities in this state, there is actually a reason why Duke exists and it's not to field sports teams.


Revenue sports are profitable, but these profits go to support the athletic department, which still operates at an annual loss of ~$15 million. The academic side steps up to the plate every year and donates $15 million to athletics. $15M that could go towards financial aid, faculty recruitment, and research. That amount is enough to halve the loans of all Duke students (Duke students take out a total of $30M in loans a year). Duke academics doesn't owe the athletics side anything.

Sorry, I'm not exactly seeing how all the fans are getting shorted. There's many ways to get to Duke without parking in one of those lots. ~snip~ I'm just not seeing how all these dedicated Duke fans are getting "screwed." I mean, if one is so dedicated, could you not just park a bit further away and get there in time for Blue Devil Walk? Sounds like a lot of people have flown in, so the morning and afternoon are free right?~snip~Y'all ain't too familiar with tailgating, I take it? How are folks supposed to get their grills, chairs, coolers of food and beverages, etc on the shuttle buses?

And, just to acknowledge the argument before it's presented- sure, DFFs could just not tailgate for this game. But why? This is a big game for the fans of both schools who live in this state and we look forward to the annual match-up. Then, Duke finally gets to host a national spotlight game (just like the basketball games) for the first time in forever and there's absolutely no effort by the administration to accommodate these paying customers?

And, finally, I'm quite certain that the revenue generated by the revenue sports, and the Iron Dukes, is also used to fund other, non-revenue generating, athletic programs. If your default position is that academics is being sucked dry by the Athletics Department, then your complaint falls upon the non-revenue sports not the football and basketball programs. And, why would an institution with Duke's academic chops deem to invest this extra $15M in these "parasitic" programs? I'd wager that it's because they know that it might just be that the scholarship awarded to the Volleyball player (or Fencer, or Swimmer/Diver), who chooses to major in Bio-medical Engineering will pay dividends to both the student and the University in the future.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 12:16 PM
According to the link, Bull City Connector stops running at 10 pm so that is not an option seeing as folks will need to get back to their car after the game. DBAP with shuttle service seems like a doable alternative.

Yeah, just saw that about the BCC. Those Durham parking lots could still be an option if the DBAP lots overflow since they are located right by DBAP. I'm sure the shuttle bus could drop off there or it'd be a short walk.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 12:29 PM
Y'all ain't too familiar with tailgating, I take it? How are folks supposed to get their grills, chairs, coolers of food and beverages, etc on the shuttle buses?

And, just to acknowledge the argument before it's presented- sure, DFFs could just not tailgate for this game. But why? This is a big game for the fans of both schools who live in this state and we look forward to the annual match-up. Then, Duke finally gets to host a national spotlight game (just like the basketball games) for the first time in forever and there's absolutely no effort by the administration to accommodate these paying customers?

And, finally, I'm quite certain that the revenue generated by the revenue sports, and the Iron Dukes, is also used to fund other, non-revenue generating, athletic programs. If your default position is that academics is being sucked dry by the Athletics Department, then your complaint falls upon the non-revenue sports not the football and basketball programs. And, why would an institution with Duke's academic chops deem to invest this extra $15M in these "parasitic" programs? I'd wager that it's because they know that it might just be that the scholarship awarded to the Volleyball player (or Fencer, or Swimmer/Diver), who chooses to major in Bio-medical Engineering will pay dividends to both the student and the University in the future.

"No effort to accommodate" is strong. They do have tailgating over at DBAP with free parking/shuttle buses. Not ideal, but it has the OK by Dr. White.

No one was calling non-revenue sports "parasitic" until you did. Same goes for the remark about "academics being sucked dry." The point is that the academics side is already supporting athletics a substantial tangible amount every year to the tune of 15M when that 15M could go toward a much more central purpose of the university. Also I wanted to refute the statement that "athletics brings in cash to Duke." It does not. Yet. Dr. White and crew are making serious efforts to turn that around with the Duke Forward fundraising and overhaul of the entire football program.

Now a stronger argument could be that a poor showing on Thursday may hamstring this revitalization effort to make Duke athletics ultimately profitable to Duke but that would be a more nuanced/shades of gray statement.

killerleft
11-11-2014, 12:34 PM
I park in the Card lot for tailgates, but this stupidity isn't about just clearing that one lot. What's the point of clearing room for Blue Devil Alley if nobody else will be there in time to enjoy it? Duke needs to find a way to have ALL of the lots open, at least 4 hours before game time. That is not being overly unreasonable on either side. The way they have it, NO lots will be open. So at rush hour, everyone will be coming and going on the highway, and on campus everyone will be coming and going. True genius.
This is going to be an insanely packed game, remember that. It's not like we are playing some team that doesn't travel well. UNC is going to be showing up in droves, along with the rest of us.
Absolute nightmare in the making. Hell is leaving Chapel Hill and coming to Durham for the night.

Once Duke agreed to host the rivalry game against the Cheaters, having the campus ready for all activities four hours before the game should have been a no-brainer. The potential traffic nightmare alone should haved dictated this.

What should be a full house of screaming Duke fans may end up being a very embarrassing night for Duke University.

There's still time to act, and it should be done.

Reilly
11-11-2014, 12:36 PM
... How about a "Million Fan March" from an agreed-upon distant location?

As I understand it, the parking lot next to the library at Glenwood Elementary doesn't get much use.

DukieInKansas
11-11-2014, 12:58 PM
Thanks for making the trip. Go Duke!

Bull City Connector runs through West Campus and several dedicated parking structures: http://www.bullcityconnector.org/map.html

According to GoDuke: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209739503
• Off Campus General Public Shuttle Lots (Tailgating Permitted) – will be available beginning at 12:00 PM on Thursday, November 20th. For fans who want to arrive earlier in the day, parking will open at 12:00 PM at the Elkins Lot next to the Durham Bulls Athletic Park with shuttle service to campus running from 12:00 PM to 2:30 AM.

Also, the parking and shuttle buses are free. Looks like a suitable compromise to me. BEAT VT! Then BEAT UNC! lol at the shuttle buses running to 2:30AM, should be enough time to celebrate eh?

This sounds like a great start on getting ready for the evening's festivities. I would suggest that it would be wonderful if there was a way to get the lots used for Blue Devil Alley opened early for the tents and tailgating there. It would be great if there was a busy BDA occuring for the Blue Devil Walk and for the cameras. I can still hear two Alabama fans walking past the tents a few years ago saying that Duke didn't do that all the time - only for the Alabama game. (It made me laugh that they thought all the tailgating effort was done for just one game that we would most likely lose, and lose big.) Putting the image of dedicated fans tailgating before the game on national tv on a Thursday evening would do a lot in increasing the standing of Duke Football - and show any overflow tailgating at other lots around town, too.

Seems to me this would accommodate the Iron Dukes and limit the number of daily parkers that are inconvenienced.

Wish I didn't have commitments here that prevent me from traveling for the game. It would be so much fun to be there to support our team as they take on the sheep from down the road. Will the team be practicing calling the plays in Swahili?

devildeac
11-11-2014, 01:18 PM
Anyone else remember this:

http://today.duke.edu/2005/10/stones1.html



We drove from Raleigh about 2 hours before the show and saw traffic backed up onto the Durham Freeway at multiple exits and this was on a Saturday afternoon/evening. We had eaten dinner an hour earlier with no plans to tailgate and ended up driving by several heavily crowded exits until exiting for DUMC on Trent/Elba or Hillandale and parking in one of the decks there for about $5, IIRC, and walking about 20 minutes to WW for the concert, arriving about halfway through Trey Anastasio's set.

What's my point? I'll fall into the CB&B/TNTDevil/killerleft/OPK camp here. They've had 1-2 years to plan for this event and the best they can do is to arrange/approve a tailgate by the DBAP and shuttle service from a nearby parking lot that ends at 10 PM? Better than nothing but just not satisfactory for this event.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 01:22 PM
Anyone else remember this:

http://today.duke.edu/2005/10/stones1.html



We drove from Raleigh about 2 hours before the show and saw traffic backed up onto the Durham Freeway at multiple exits and this was on a Saturday afternoon/evening. We had eaten dinner an hour earlier with no plans to tailgate and ended up driving by several heavily crowded exits until exiting for DUMC on Trent/Elba or Hillandale and parking in one of the decks there for about $5, IIRC, and walking about 20 minutes to WW for the concert, arriving about halfway through Trey Anastasio's set.

What's my point? I'll fall into the CB&B/TNTDevil/killerleft/OPK camp here. They've had 1-2 years to plan for this event and the best they can do is to arrange/approve a tailgate by the DBAP and shuttle service from a nearby parking lot that ends at 10 PM? Better than nothing but just not satisfactory for this event.

Bull City Connector ends at 10pm. The free Duke shuttle bus to the DBAP lots ends at 2:30am.

AustinDevil
11-11-2014, 02:28 PM
[A]re the daily operations of a research university really more important than providing ESPN with primetime inventory? Think about it.

I don't have time to find the GIF so I'll just say: Not sure if serious. Do you believe those of us hoping for a better pre-game plan are all secretly in Bristol, Connecticut and using mirrored sites to post here or something? I personally do not care a bit about ESPN, except that ESPN will be featuring Duke in a primetime broadcast against our archrival and I want the exposure to be positive (and by the way, if you think good exposure on ESPN is not positively correlated to greater success for our "research university," I think you are completely wrong). This includes having BDA open and having the stadium full at kickoff.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-11-2014, 03:49 PM
Man, I thought this thread would be focused on stuff like all the great chants we need to get going at this game. Instead, looks like we skipped letters A-O and got stuck at the letter P...

mgtr
11-11-2014, 04:07 PM
Once Duke agreed to host the rivalry game against the Cheaters, having the campus ready for all activities four hours before the game should have been a no-brainer. The potential traffic nightmare alone should haved dictated this.

What should be a full house of screaming Duke fans may end up being a very embarrassing night for Duke University.

There's still time to act, and it should be done.

I think this post pretty much sums up the whole story. I get it that the Administration has to balance the desires of academics with the desires of athletics (assuming, which is not true, that there is no overlap). So, if they have no desire to step on the academics' feet, or to seem to come down in favor of athletics, just don't agree to a weekday game.

TNTDevil
11-11-2014, 04:22 PM
"No effort to accommodate" is strong. They do have tailgating over at DBAP with free parking/shuttle buses. Not ideal, but it has the OK by Dr. White.

No one was calling non-revenue sports "parasitic" until you did. Same goes for the remark about "academics being sucked dry." The point is that the academics side is already supporting athletics a substantial tangible amount every year to the tune of 15M when that 15M could go toward a much more central purpose of the university. Also I wanted to refute the statement that "athletics brings in cash to Duke." It does not. Yet. Dr. White and crew are making serious efforts to turn that around with the Duke Forward fundraising and overhaul of the entire football program.

Now a stronger argument could be that a poor showing on Thursday may hamstring this revitalization effort to make Duke athletics ultimately profitable to Duke but that would be a more nuanced/shades of gray statement.Please accept my apologies for my less-than artful language in the post you've quoted. I was rushing to respond and should have chosen better wording.

However, I stand by my point(s): Clearly, those on the other side of this debate aren't familiar with tailgating in general or tailgating specifically for Duke Football games. Sure, me and the other 60+ people who typically join together at our BDA tent (along with 20+ other tents) for Duke games can tailgate over at DBAP but, what are we supposed to do @ 5:30-6:00PM, pack it all up, wind our way through traffic just so we can move to our leased spot on BDA? I understand it's "just one game" but, it is THE one game versus our biggest in-state rival. I just can't understand why more wasn't done to ensure a better game-day experience for Duke football fans.

As to the revenue angle, I'm not even sure why this keeps coming up except to use it as a cudgel with which to bash the Athletics Dept. in general and, the football fans who've bothered to express their displeasure with how Duke prepared for this upcoming event. But, both the basketball and football programs do generate revenue and profit. Profit which is plowed back into the other non-revenue programs. So, if the $15M that is invested into Duke Athletics bothers folks so much, aim your arguments at those sports (argument with which I would vehemently disagree as well).

Thus far, those who've posted in this thread to express displeasure with Duke's handling of the UNC pre-game options have been referred to as either whiners, elitists, entitled and/or unreasonable. I can't really figure that...we're "whining" because we want turn-out and support our team in a manner to which we've been accustomed? We're acting "entitled" because we're dissatisfied with how Duke has, in effect, dissed it's most loyal and vocal supporters for this "crown-jewel" game? How are we being unreasonable when our arguments have been aimed at compromise?

I guess this is just another milestone for the Duke Football program. 15 years ago I used to get ridicule for just buying my Season Tickets. Now, I'm an unreasonable, whining, entitled elitist because I want the UNC/Duke game to be a showcase for the University in which I can participate fully.

killerleft
11-11-2014, 04:41 PM
This is our collective brain on the drugs adrenaline, euphoria, and cheater-beata-vegemin (and maybe a touch of craft brew?):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMvDGS_4ig

You don't get that with traffic jams. By the way, turn it up pretty loud, feel the vibrations, and you get a small idea of what it is like to see us beat UNC live and in person!

First up is Virginia Tech, though. Easy to get to this one, and very few of us has seen Duke beat THEM live! Go Duke!

devil84
11-11-2014, 05:01 PM
I realize that basketball games don't need nearly as much parking as football, but the lots that are used for tailgating -- particularly Blue Devil Alley -- overlap. Many basketball games are at 7pm during the week. The Iron Duke lots open 3 hours before the games [source] (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=635259&SPID=72334&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205356624). This Friday's season opener tips at 6pm. That would mean that the Iron Duke lots would open at 3pm, right?

From Duke's parking site (http://parking.duke.edu/parking/zones_lots/full_listing.php#Card), it says this about the Card lot:
Description: This lot is used primarily by employees and students working in Athletics or in the West Campus quad vicinity with after-hours access granted to employees and graduate students using Wilson Recreational facilities.
After-Hours Access: Evening, weekend, and holiday parking access is available via DukeCard for all employees and commuting students.
Special Information: This lot is designated for IronDuke parking for home football and men's and women's home basketball games. At these times, permit holders are denied access and asked to remove their vehicles by a posted time. Parking for permit holders continues to be available in non-IronDuke lots including the Green Zone, Chemistry, 751, and PGIV.

This lot is cleared by 4pm on men's basketball game days with tip-offs at 7pm. Next Friday, it should be available at 3pm -- there is no parking and traffic advisory or anything that I can find about it not being open the normal 3 hours before tipoff. Note that other lots have similar verbiage, although most aren't used mostly by athletic department employees.

I fail to see why, for one football game, the lot populated mostly by Athletics employees can't be cleared as it is for every weekday basketball game so that a celebration of the rivalry game can take place, with TV cameras in close proximity for the nationally televised game. These lots open for every weekday basketball game at 4:00 (assuming a 7pm tipoff), and it's not an affront to the integrity of the mission of the university. I know that football requires many more parking spaces, so the remote parking at the DBAP with a shuttle is a terrific solution for that. But for those people that paid for Iron Duke parking and tents on Blue Devil Alley to provide the visible football culture, it seems like they ought to be able to cheer on the team and celebrate the rivalry. It's OK to open these parking lots at 4pm during the week for basketball, but not for football? That doesn't make sense to me.

duke09hms
11-11-2014, 05:15 PM
I realize that basketball games don't need nearly as much parking as football, but the lots that are used for tailgating -- particularly Blue Devil Alley -- overlap. Many basketball games are at 7pm during the week. The Iron Duke lots open 3 hours before the games [source] (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=635259&SPID=72334&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205356624). This Friday's season opener tips at 6pm. That would mean that the Iron Duke lots would open at 3pm, right?

From Duke's parking site (http://parking.duke.edu/parking/zones_lots/full_listing.php#Card), it says this about the Card lot:

This lot is cleared by 4pm on men's basketball game days with tip-offs at 7pm. Next Friday, it should be available at 3pm -- there is no parking and traffic advisory or anything that I can find about it not being open the normal 3 hours before tipoff. Note that other lots have similar verbiage, although most aren't used mostly by athletic department employees.

I fail to see why, for one football game, the lot populated mostly by Athletics employees can't be cleared as it is for every weekday basketball game so that a celebration of the rivalry game can take place, with TV cameras in close proximity for the nationally televised game. These lots open for every weekday basketball game at 4:00 (assuming a 7pm tipoff), and it's not an affront to the integrity of the mission of the university. I know that football requires many more parking spaces, so the remote parking at the DBAP with a shuttle is a terrific solution for that. But for those people that paid for Iron Duke parking and tents on Blue Devil Alley to provide the visible football culture, it seems like they ought to be able to cheer on the team and celebrate the rivalry. It's OK to open these parking lots at 4pm during the week for basketball, but not for football? That doesn't make sense to me.

Huh, now THAT really makes no sense, and I think all guests should have a huge bone to pick with Duke Athletics/Admin over this.

-jk
11-11-2014, 05:15 PM
I realize that basketball games don't need nearly as much parking as football, but the lots that are used for tailgating -- particularly Blue Devil Alley -- overlap. Many basketball games are at 7pm during the week. The Iron Duke lots open 3 hours before the games [source] (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=635259&SPID=72334&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205356624). This Friday's season opener tips at 6pm. That would mean that the Iron Duke lots would open at 3pm, right?

From Duke's parking site (http://parking.duke.edu/parking/zones_lots/full_listing.php#Card), it says this about the Card lot:

This lot is cleared by 4pm on men's basketball game days with tip-offs at 7pm. Next Friday, it should be available at 3pm -- there is no parking and traffic advisory or anything that I can find about it not being open the normal 3 hours before tipoff. Note that other lots have similar verbiage, although most aren't used mostly by athletic department employees.

I fail to see why, for one football game, the lot populated mostly by Athletics employees can't be cleared as it is for every weekday basketball game so that a celebration of the rivalry game can take place, with TV cameras in close proximity for the nationally televised game. These lots open for every weekday basketball game at 4:00 (assuming a 7pm tipoff), and it's not an affront to the integrity of the mission of the university. I know that football requires many more parking spaces, so the remote parking at the DBAP with a shuttle is a terrific solution for that. But for those people that paid for Iron Duke parking and tents on Blue Devil Alley to provide the visible football culture, it seems like they ought to be able to cheer on the team and celebrate the rivalry. It's OK to open these parking lots at 4pm during the week for basketball, but not for football? That doesn't make sense to me.

That's a great find, D. Surely, that rule can be made to apply to this Duke-unc football game, too...

-jk

allenmurray
11-11-2014, 05:22 PM
If we wanted to demonstrate our high academic standards as a university we failed. The ability to problem-solve is a crucial skill. All the content knowledge in the world is useless to either a person or an organization that lacks the ability to engage in flexible problem solving and adaptability.

sagegrouse
11-11-2014, 05:27 PM
Yes, but are the daily operations of a research university really more important than providing ESPN with primetime inventory? Think about it.

No, of course not, but a half-day holiday once every three or four years isn't much of a sacrifice

sagegrouse
11-11-2014, 05:32 PM
Man, I thought this thread would be focused on stuff like all the great chants we need to get going at this game. Instead, looks like we skipped letters A-O and got stuck at the letter P...

All this calls to mind the quote from Clark Kerr (1911-2003), President of UC Berkeley:


"The three purposes of the University?--To provide sex for the students, sports for the alumni, and parking for the faculty."

In this case, number two and number three are in serious conflict.

OldPhiKap
11-11-2014, 06:08 PM
"The three purposes of the University?--To provide sex for the students, sports for the alumni, and parking for the faculty."

So -- are the renovations at Perkins done yet?

uh_no
11-11-2014, 06:47 PM
"The three purposes of the University?--To provide sex for the students, sports for the alumni, and parking for the faculty."

So -- are the renovations at Perkins done yet?

no, they had to push them out to accommodate a pregame party for the UNC football game :D

Acymetric
11-11-2014, 07:55 PM
I realize that basketball games don't need nearly as much parking as football, but the lots that are used for tailgating -- particularly Blue Devil Alley -- overlap. Many basketball games are at 7pm during the week. The Iron Duke lots open 3 hours before the games [source] (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=635259&SPID=72334&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205356624). This Friday's season opener tips at 6pm. That would mean that the Iron Duke lots would open at 3pm, right?

From Duke's parking site (http://parking.duke.edu/parking/zones_lots/full_listing.php#Card), it says this about the Card lot:

This lot is cleared by 4pm on men's basketball game days with tip-offs at 7pm. Next Friday, it should be available at 3pm -- there is no parking and traffic advisory or anything that I can find about it not being open the normal 3 hours before tipoff. Note that other lots have similar verbiage, although most aren't used mostly by athletic department employees.

I fail to see why, for one football game, the lot populated mostly by Athletics employees can't be cleared as it is for every weekday basketball game so that a celebration of the rivalry game can take place, with TV cameras in close proximity for the nationally televised game. These lots open for every weekday basketball game at 4:00 (assuming a 7pm tipoff), and it's not an affront to the integrity of the mission of the university. I know that football requires many more parking spaces, so the remote parking at the DBAP with a shuttle is a terrific solution for that. But for those people that paid for Iron Duke parking and tents on Blue Devil Alley to provide the visible football culture, it seems like they ought to be able to cheer on the team and celebrate the rivalry. It's OK to open these parking lots at 4pm during the week for basketball, but not for football? That doesn't make sense to me.

I was going to raise this exact question (without quite as much of a detailed answer) but looks like you beat me to it. At the very least this should receive the same accommodations as a basketball game right? And we manage to handle how many of those a year again? Where are the people complaining about the concessions made to sports by the University for this Friday's meaningless basketball game (which I cannot wait to attend)? Duke basketball fans should park at Southpoint Mall and unicycle to north Durham (children under 6 can have 2 wheels) and back after the game for all weekday games, anything else is an affront to our faculty and the University as a whole and is too much of a concession to make to sports. Right?

dragoneye776
11-15-2014, 02:54 AM
I wanted to pass along this email as proof that the university IS trying to manage the traffic for the UNC game while interrupting university functions as little as possible.

TO: Vice Presidents, Vice Provosts, Deans, Directors, Department Heads, and Managers
FROM: Kyle Cavanaugh, Vice President for Administration
RE: Traffic Alert for Nov. 20 Football Game

Duke will host a nationally televised football game on ESPN on Thursday, Nov. 20, against the University of North Carolina. This is a great opportunity to showcase Duke’s student-athletes, but it will also create some logistical challenges for our normal weekday operations.

I want to give you advance notice of this event so you can make appropriate plans to deal with significant congestion that is expected on area roads. More than 30,000 are expected to attend the game on Thursday evening. A similar number of employees will be leaving work for the day at about the same time. This convergence will generate significant traffic congestion on and around campus beginning in late afternoon.

We are making arrangements to relocate some vehicles from the Blue Zone parking lot to other campus lots on Thursday, Nov. 20 and are providing shuttle service to remote lots. We are also working with UNC to provide shuttle service between remote lots to reduce the demand on parking and reduce traffic congestion. Still parking in the core of Duke’s campus will be highly constrained. Parking lots for game traffic will open to the public starting at 5:30 p.m., and those who plan to attend the game are encouraged to carpool or ride the bus.

Please refer to the attached flyer:
http://parking.duke.edu/documents/expectdelays.pdf

devildeac
11-15-2014, 11:51 PM
Signs at the entrance to the Card Gym and Blue Zone lots instructed folks with cars parked there to have them removed by 4 PM on Thursday. A Duke official visited our tent and our neighbors today and said security was to use "discretion" or their "judgement" when/if to let folks in before 4 PM that day depending on availability of open spaces in the Card and Blue lots. After 4 PM, they were instructed to be very "lenient" or "generous" on admission to those lots. That's a lot more encouraging than prior reports. The tents in Blue Devil Alley were to be set up that AM or early afternoon and moved into their usual locations as spots opened up as the afternoon progressed.

SoCalDukeFan
11-16-2014, 12:44 AM
Not sure why Duke has agreed to it.

Evidently the Pac 12 has a contract and each school hosts a game. Cal moved their game to Santa Clara, almost 50 miles away, because of parking, traffic, class etc. concerns. Went to the USC-Cal game and some regular season ticket holders who sit near us were not there or came late or left early.

College football should be played on Saturday, mostly in the early afternoon.

I hope this is Duke's last weekay night game.

SoCal

nyesq83
11-16-2014, 01:39 PM
We open at Tulane on Thursday next year, SoCal.

See you all around 4:30. I will parkin a nearby neighborhood and walk to campus.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-16-2014, 02:24 PM
We open at Tulane on Thursday next year, SoCal.

See you all around 4:30. I will parkin a nearby neighborhood and walk to campus.

I've also been hearing that Duke is slated to host another Thursday game, perhaps in 2016, which would showcase completed stadium renovations.

Dev11
11-17-2014, 06:23 PM
Any current students want to share what they've told the regular Blue Zone inhabitants about what you're supposed to do on Thursday? Thursday early afternoon is probably one of the busiest class times of the week, so many if not most students are busy then. If I'd been told as a student that I had to move my car from the Blue Zone to somewhere on Central in the middle of the day on Thursday, and then get it back before business hours on Friday after what will likely be an emotional game, I'd have been furious.

allenmurray
11-17-2014, 08:17 PM
Not sure why Duke has agreed to it.

Evidently the Pac 12 has a contract and each school hosts a game. Cal moved their game to Santa Clara, almost 50 miles away, because of parking, traffic, class etc. concerns. Went to the USC-Cal game and some regular season ticket holders who sit near us were not there or came late or left early.

College football should be played on Saturday, mostly in the early afternoon.

I hope this is Duke's last weekay night game.

SoCal

I agree that college football is best played on Saturday. However, in this case Duke knew about this game years in advance, and a mere 7 days before the game was still scrambling to find a solution. Once they accepted the TV contract the time to say "we really shouldn't play on weeknights" was over. It then became time to figure out how to do it well.

devildeac
11-18-2014, 05:13 PM
Any truth to the report that various department managers at Duke received emails today suggesting/allowing employees to go home at 2PM on Thursday and that parking was to be granted in the ID lots/spaces anytime after 330-400 PM? Inquiring minds and all that stuff...

DU82
11-18-2014, 05:33 PM
Any truth to the report that various department managers at Duke received emails today suggesting/allowing employees to go home at 2PM on Thursday and that parking was to be granted in the ID lots/spaces anytime after 330-400 PM? Inquiring minds and all that stuff...

The official email from the ID office this afternoon still said parking lots open at 5:30:

This Thursday, Duke Football takes on UNC in Wallace Wade Stadium! We hope you are as excited as we are for this nationally televised Duke event. This email serves to provide you with some game day changes that are necessary due to the nature of a weeknight game. We appreciate your cooperation and patience as we aim to make this a good game day experience for all.

All Iron Duke lots will open at 5:30pm, and gates to Wallace Wade open at 6:00pm. University officials have worked hard with all campus entities to clear parking lots and roads earlier than a normal school day, while maintaining the integrity of the University. For those who would like to begin tailgating earlier, the Elkins Lot (next to the Durham Bulls Athletic Park) will serve as an off-campus shuttle lot and will open at noon on Thursday. Please visit www.GoDuke.com/Thursday for more information.

All Iron Duke lots also serve as daily parking for students and staff. While students and staff are being asked to leave early, we cannot guarantee that the entire lot will be available as it is on a Saturday game day. In the event that there is no available space in your lot, parking staff will direct you to another lot. Please know, every effort will be made to keep you as close to Wallace Wade as possible.

If you are able, please consider carpooling on Thursday. This will help to increase the number of available of spots in each lot, as well as cut down on the number of cars on the roads. Also, please remember that each parking pass is good for one parking spot. We ask that only vehicles take up parking spots and that tailgating does not impede vehicular traffic.

For any questions on these and other game day matters, please visit www.GoDuke.com/Thursday. As always, you can contact our office at 919-613-7575. Thank you for your patience and understanding - we look forward to seeing you Thursday in Wallace Wade!

Go Duke!

Reilly
11-18-2014, 09:57 PM
... please consider carpooling on Thursday. This will help to increase the number of available of spots in each lot ... [/I]

What the hell kind of voodoo is going on here? Just by folks considering carpooling, the parking lots will expand? Sounds like a very easy solution.

AustinDevil
11-19-2014, 01:11 PM
Haven't been around campus in years. Staying not far from East -- is it feasible to park for the evening anywhere near there and take the East-West bus over to West for the game? Can't wait to get back tomorrow!

asbcheeks
11-19-2014, 01:25 PM
Haven't been around campus in years. Staying not far from East -- is it feasible to park for the evening anywhere near there and take the East-West bus over to West for the game? Can't wait to get back tomorrow!

My understanding is that most of the streets in the neighborhoods north and east of East Campus have 2hr parking through 5pm, so you would be fine there from 3pm. Another option is to park at Brightleaf Square, have a pregame drink or 6 at Sati's to get your parking validated, and take the Bull City Connector over to campus. Note that the BCC won't be running by the time the game lets out, so you'd need to take the E-W bus back over to East and walk from there.

DU82
11-19-2014, 01:51 PM
Haven't been around campus in years. Staying not far from East -- is it feasible to park for the evening anywhere near there and take the East-West bus over to West for the game? Can't wait to get back tomorrow!

You should be able to park on East after five. Certainly the parking lot near the music building (drive just east of Broad on Markham). I haven't had a problem parking on Campus Drive near Main while walking on the trail inside the wall. However, I believe the signs changed in late summer from being reserved only from 8-5 to being regulated 24/7.

I would expect most of the limited street parking is over at five.

Do not park in the Whole Foods parking lot, they definitely tow. Supposedly, so does the new Harris Teeter development on Ninth. But that's further away anyway.

You should also be able to park on one of the side streets off of Campus Drive, near the Nasher. However, I don't recall what the signs indicate there.