Okafor AP preseason POY

[jcannon]

The AP has announced their All-American team, with Jahlil as POY. I know these preseason rankings/predictions mean nothing, but great to see a Duke big man being mentioned for these awards. It has been too long since that happened. Marcus Paige and Montrezl Harrell also on the list. Should be a fun year in the ACC! Go Duke!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24782034/ap-unveils-preseason-all-americans-duke-frosh-okafor-player-of-the-year

[CDu]

The AP has announced their All-American team, with Jahlil as POY. I know these preseason rankings/predictions mean nothing, but great to see a Duke big man being mentioned for these awards. It has been too long since that happened. Marcus Paige and Montrezl Harrell also on the list. Should be a fun year in the ACC! Go Duke!

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24782034/ap-unveils-preseason-all-americans-duke-frosh-okafor-player-of-the-year

Just like Harrison Barnes had no business getting this honor, neither does Okafor. He may wind up being that good, but it's just silly to put a freshman on these lists.

[Bob Green]

Just like Harrison Barnes had no business getting this honor, neither does Okafor. He may wind up being that good, but it's just silly to put a freshman on these lists.

I agree 100 percent. All this does is potentially place a lot of undue pressure on the young man's shoulders.

[Wander]

Just like Harrison Barnes had no business getting this honor, neither does Okafor. He may wind up being that good, but it's just silly to put a freshman on these lists.

The issue is that it's dumb to have official AP preseason All-American teams in the first place. If you absolutely have to have it, I don't see any good reason to restrict it to non-freshmen.

[CDu]

The issue is that it's dumb to have official AP preseason All-American teams in the first place. If you absolutely have to have it, I don't see any good reason to restrict it to non-freshmen.

Totally agree that it's dumb to have it. And I'm not saying that there should be a restruction to non-freshmen. It's just that freshmen have no real evidence base from which to support a ranking. So you wind up with a guy like Barnes (who was nowhere near All-American as a freshman, and not really close as a sophomore) getting honored based on hype.

It is certainly possible that Okafor will earn an All-American honor. Heck, Parker did it last year. But I would say that Player of the Year is WAY premature for a kid who has never logged a minute in college.

[bob blue devil]

Totally agree that it's dumb to have it. And I'm not saying that there should be a restruction to non-freshmen. It's just that freshmen have no real evidence base from which to support a ranking. So you wind up with a guy like Barnes (who was nowhere near All-American as a freshman, and not really close as a sophomore) getting honored based on hype.

It is certainly possible that Okafor will earn an All-American honor. Heck, Parker did it last year. But I would say that Player of the Year is WAY premature for a kid who has never logged a minute in college.

I guess the moral of the story is that a preseason honor is not much of an honor at all. Freshman have done nothing to earn it, but nor has anyone else really.

But it's nice PR for our guy this year, so I'm not going to complain! And I expect he'll back up the hype.

[subzero02]

Congratulations to Okafor. I hope this is one of many individual and team accolades he earns this year. If he stays healthy I certainly think he could dominate on a Greg Oden/Kevin Durant level.

[brevity]

Just like Harrison Barnes had no business getting this honor, neither does Okafor. He may wind up being that good, but it's just silly to put a freshman on these lists.

Yes and no. Last season really put the concept of preseason player predictions to the test. If you include freshmen, then you are ridiculous for overinflating their value without seeing a minute of their actual play. If you exclude freshmen, then you are putting forth a dishonest picture of college basketball and are being a snob.

By the way, there is no compromise. You can't create an artificial ceiling like "Well, I'll include freshmen, but no higher than the Second Team" or "It'll be okay as long as I don't predict a freshman for Player of the Year".

You would think the solution would be to eliminate preseason player predictions altogether; that's fine for individuals with nothing at stake but makes no sense for the Associated Press, ESPN, CBS Sports, and other media outlets. Gaining intangible credit for integrity means you lose fan traffic. No, they'll do this every year, and we'll complain about it every year. Fan conversation created and directed, mission accomplished.

I can think of two solutions that would absolutely work. But which is more extreme?

1. Allow high schoolers to go straight to the NBA again. Generally, this should severely limit the amount of freshman hype that would crash any preseason look at college basketball. The All-American lists of November would start to look the way they used to: the best returning players, with a dollop of former supporting players in big programs ready to make the leap. That would be nice to see, IF we completely ignore all of the problems that get re-introduced to both the NBA and college basketball.

2. Force every living sports fan to enlighten themselves about the meaninglessness of preseason evaluations and shrug their shoulders instead of ever expressing a single thought about it. Shut down this thread! Yeah, whatever. I fight this losing battle constantly in DBR, which is probably in the upper 0.0001% of sports fandom. I can't even imagine taking on the Facebook idiots at ESPN.com, or, you know, drunk fans not using a computer.

[oldnavy]

It's a great way for the "experts" to show us how knowledgeable they are if the preseason predictions pan out.

If they don't pan out then the "failures" didn't live up to expectation....

No lose situation for the creators of such lists.

Bottom line... ain't nobody done nothing yet....

[jacone21]

I am naming myself Pre-season Fan of the Year. I will try my best not to wilt under the glaring spotlight of unreasonable expectations.

I think it's okay for a guy like Jahlil to get recognized like that. He's worked hard to get where he is now. He just needs to take it for what it's worth. I don't know him personally, but he seems like the kind of humble kid that won't let it go to his head or let it put any pressure on him... at least no more pressure than being a freshman starter at Duke is already going put on him. I can't even imagine. I would be looking for Rodney Hood's trash can.

[BD80]

I agree 100 percent. All this does is potentially place a lot of undue pressure on the young man's shoulders.

I'm actually pleased at the "award"

I think it has been discussed elsewhere on this board that Jah wants to prove he is the best player in the country and Coach K wants him on the court proving he is the best player in the country. No deferring to upperclassmen, or worrying about feelings, just go out and dominate.

Jah seems able to handle that level of a challenge. He wants to be Alpha. Think about true champions, they are typically very much Alphas - MJ first comes to mind, Kobe as well. Not necessarily nice people, but confident in their dominance. Christian Laettner is a Duke example that comes to mind. Not all alphas are champions, and not all champions are alphas, but I think the attitude can be extremely beneficial in the right circumstances. I would suggest that Jah's Alpha personality blends perfectly with an outstanding supporting cast and HOF coach.

[devildeac]

I'm OK but not wild about this and can see both views. I'm just damn happy he'd didn't wear a freaking banana costume during CTC.:o

[Newton_14]

Just like Harrison Barnes had no business getting this honor, neither does Okafor. He may wind up being that good, but it's just silly to put a freshman on these lists.
Agree


I agree 100 percent. All this does is potentially place a lot of undue pressure on the young man's shoulders.
Double Agree


The issue is that it's dumb to have official AP preseason All-American teams in the first place. If you absolutely have to have it, I don't see any good reason to restrict it to non-freshmen.
Triple Agree

And I cannot believe I am going to defend the Pigeon but I actually am. Just like with Harrison, if Jahlil struggles out of the gate or stumbles along the way, the media will rip him as overrated and over hyped. Well guess who overrated and over hyped him in the first place genius's?? The media.

The whole thing is absurd. A preseason team is not needed at all imo.

my two cents... carry on.

(PS- Jahlil is like really really good so hopefully it will not even matter. Still isn't fair to him though)

[SilkyJ]

Just like Harrison Barnes had no business getting this honor, neither does Okafor. He may wind up being that good, but it's just silly to put a freshman on these lists.


Totally agree that it's dumb to have it. And I'm not saying that there should be a restruction to non-freshmen. It's just that freshmen have no real evidence base from which to support a ranking. So you wind up with a guy like Barnes (who was nowhere near All-American as a freshman, and not really close as a sophomore) getting honored based on hype.

It is certainly possible that Okafor will earn an All-American honor. Heck, Parker did it last year. But I would say that Player of the Year is WAY premature for a kid who has never logged a minute in college.

I agree that we are sometimes or often too quick to anoint freshman, but I wouldn't say its always silly to put a freshman on this list or that all of them have no business getting on. In the post NBA age limit era kids are going to college that really don't need to and probably wouldn't have 10 years ago. If Lebron went to college he'd deserve to be on the list. I remember coach K talking about seeing Dwight Howard in HS for an hour and leaving the gym b/c he knew he was never coming to college. Some guys might be worthy of the honor...and its not like there's a ton of top notch upperclassmen talent to pick over him.


The issue is that it's dumb to have official AP preseason All-American teams in the first place. If you absolutely have to have it, I don't see any good reason to restrict it to non-freshmen.

Calling it "dumb" is kinda weak. Yea its something to get more clicks and sell more papers, but its just another form of what all sports pontificating is, which is making educated guesses about outcomes. This is just guessing who we think the 5 best players will be and one of them has to be the #1 vote getter and POY, so you try to guess who that might be.

These days HS players get enough top tier competition for people to know when there is a special one, and people are saying Okafor is special, much like Jabari. If I'm making an (un)educated guess for my POY, its probably Okafor right now.

[subzero02]

I agree that we are sometimes or often too quick to anoint freshman, but I wouldn't say its always silly to put a freshman on this list or that all of them have no business getting on. In the post NBA age limit era kids are going to college that really don't need to and probably wouldn't have 10 years ago. If Lebron went to college he'd deserve to be on the list. I remember coach K talking about seeing Dwight Howard in HS for an hour and leaving the gym b/c he knew he was never coming to college. Some guys might be worthy of the honor...and its not like there's a ton of top notch upperclassmen talent to pick over him.



Calling it "dumb" is kinda weak. Yea its something to get more clicks and sell more papers, but its just another form of what all sports pontificating is, which is making educated guesses about outcomes. This is just guessing who we think the 5 best players will be and one of them has to be the #1 vote getter and POY, so you try to guess who that might be.

These days HS players get enough top tier competition for people to know when there is a special one, and people are saying Okafor is special, much like Jabari. If I'm making an (un)educated guess for my POY, its probably Okafor right now.

I agree for the most part ... If attending college for 1 year continues to be all but mandatory, then every few years there will be a freshman named to the preseason all american team. I also must say that I think the coaching staff's praise of Okafor over the past few weeks probably influenced some of the voters.

[mo.st.dukie]

Totally agree that it's dumb to have it. And I'm not saying that there should be a restruction to non-freshmen. It's just that freshmen have no real evidence base from which to support a ranking. So you wind up with a guy like Barnes (who was nowhere near All-American as a freshman, and not really close as a sophomore) getting honored based on hype.




It's not really an honor though because it's not a real award. Nobody ever mentions what an honor it was for Kyle Singler to be Preseason NPOY going into his senior year because he didn't actually win the real award. We talk all the time about his Final Four MOP because that's a real award. Preseason stuff is just a way to get people talking about college basketball and to send some sort of signal to the sports viewing world that college basketball is about to start in the midst of all the football mania that goes on in this country this time of year, nothing more.

[JasonEvans]

How can you have a player of the year when you haven't played a single game? It is akin to declaring Kentucky the National Champions because they were voted #1 in the preseason poll. So stupid.

-Jason "I doubt Okafor even cares" Evans

[MarkD83]

It's like a bakery....oh never mind.

[OldPhiKap]

I am proud to announce that I have been named as a pre-season All-American poster, although I plan to underperform.

Good luck to Jah and his efforts to deal with the expectations. And the ability to pass out of the double-team on the blocks.

[uh_no]

I am proud to announce that I have been named as a pre-season All-American poster, although I plan to underperform.


if you managed to overperform, then THAT would be an accomplishment

[OldPhiKap]

if you managed to overperform, then THAT would be an accomplishment

I'd break the internet. And the pressure would kill me.

As my guidance counselor in high school always said, "aim low and then underachieve."

(Now that I think about it, perhaps my guidance counselor was not very good at her job).


On point, and. I don't like to say it -- Paige should be favored to be ACC POY. Take that for what it is worth.

[Troublemaker]

Fan conversation created and directed, mission accomplished.

Yeah, if we just look at it through that prism, I like that these preseason picks get made. Every sport has some version of this, e.g. all the ESPN NBA bloggers selecting their preseason MVP (http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/MVP1415/2014-15-most-valuable-player-predictions) and Finals champion. (http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/nba1415/2014-15-nba-champion-predictions) In another thread on here, folks have been discussing Anthony Davis' chances at MVP. It's good fan discussion typically. It's just that college basketball has the freshman factor and so instead of having those discussions comparing players and teams, we just discuss the caveat. Understandably.

[Wahoo2000]

I'd disagree. I think they're VERY important. As a UVa fan - it gives me a good indication of where we'll finish up the season in the league. (since we finish at least one or two spots better than predicted pretty much every year since Bennett got here)

In all seriousness though - I agree. In a perfect world, there'd be no preseason awards, lists, or rankings. As others have clearly stated, the $$$ in the sports media industry pretty much ensures they'll continue (and continue to be inaccurate since more hits means more cash and you get more hits by overrating the "name" programs consistently).

I'm a huge fan of Pomeroy, but even his numbers aren't really GREAT predictors until late Jan/early Feb.

[southgater]

I have a different view of these preseason player awards, and perhaps more so, preseason team rankings. I believe they provide the media itself with a useful way to target their coverage of college basketball, as well as other sports. Since media cannot cover all teams, they are certainly looking to cover the teams/games that will be of most interest to their viewers/readers. Certainly, local teams will always get local coverage, but for national media, they must make decisions on who to cover. Now, for bluebloods like us, Kansas, MSU, Kentucky, Florida, etc, they will be widely covered no matter what as they have established, built in fan appeal. But for lesser known teams one important aspect in the decision making process is how talented they are because that generates interest. For example, when the next Larry Bird comes out of the next Indiana State, I'm sure the media will likely know about it in advance and be prepared to cover them.

Since broadcast schedules, for example, must be made well in advance of the actual games, ESPN, Fox, etc, must choose their games without the benefit of watching teams/players in action. I'd be very surprised if they don't use preseason rankings, player awards, etc as part of the selection process. In fact, I'd bet that they have internal ranking systems that are much more sophisticated, and perhaps more accurate, than the public preseason lists. They probably use the public preseason awards, but maybe more as an independent verification of their internal lists.

Now all of this doesn't mean that we as fans need to become excited about these preseason awards, but I think it does suggest they do have some importance in the overall college basketball experience.

[MCFinARL]

Maybe the key here is not to call these "awards" at all. Even upperclassmen have not played a single game this season, and thus haven't earned any award for this season's performance. It makes more sense to call them predictions, because that is, after all, what they are--predictions of which players will be outstanding this year. They generate some interest in whether the players' actual performance will match the predictions.

If thinking of these as predictions could also turn the focus on the predictors--did they accurately determine who would excel--rather than the players, so that media and many fans would not turn on players who don't live up to the predictions, so much the better. But it's beyond unrealistic to expect that result, even if I could successfully impose my name change.

[johnb]

This board has spent the past 6 months debating the team's 2014-15 distribution of minutes. Will we have a freshman PG? Will Semi/Grayson/Matt be in the rotation? Will Kentucky implode?

I don't see much difference between our guesses and those of the national media, and, unless we're going to basically shut down DBR in the off season, I don't see why we're upset that one of our guys is getting some kudos. Could it make him overly cocky? Maybe, but it's not like he's getting this award out of the blue--adults have been complimenting him since he hit puberty. Could he "fail" like Harrison Barnes? For one thing, Barnes was mainly a failure when he elected to play down the road from us. For another thing, Barnes was and is quite a good player; he's not James Worthy, but few are.

Anyway, Okafor strikes me as a solid choice for preseason NPOY. He is likely to be the best and featured player on one of the best and most televised teams in the country. Only a few teams in the country have centers who are likely to be able to slow him down, and most of them are teams playing in the NBA. Okafor should be putting up a solid 20/10 every night without needing to count on an outside shot that can go cold (his layups and dunks look pretty solid, and he is likely to get them in droves). K touts him as a great player, and, unlike most of us, K actually knows Jahlil (and lots of other basketball stars) and seems to have the idea that the young guy can put the praise to one side and play the game. Even further: it seems to me that K wants Jahlil to enter every game deeply believing that he is the best player who is going to be on that basketball court, that every rebound should be his, and that he should be able to get his shot when he wants to. K wants and the team probably needs Jahlil to believe he going to be the NPOY; with that mindset (and the skills of our many great players), we should be fairly awesome by January. And if we're not, it's not going to be because of preseason hype.

[COYS]

Okafor should be putting up a solid 20/10 every night without needing to count on an outside shot that can go cold (his layups and dunks look pretty solid, and he is likely to get them in droves).

I agree with everything you say except for this. 20 ppg is a BIG number. Obviously, Dukies have gotten there, before. However, they've almost exclusively been guards who have the advantage of shooting free throws at the end of close games, shooting from three point range, and generally playing more minutes than big guys in large part due to committing fewer fouls. It is also highly dependent on pace of play. More possessions equals more opportunities to score buckets. I'm not saying Jahlil isn't capable of scoring 20 ppg, but I think it's unlikely that he averages above 20ppg. Jabari didn't do it. Kyrie didn't do it, and he benefited from mostly playing in preseason games. Nolan did it but likely wouldn't have if Kyrie hadn't gotten injured. Kyle never did it. Jon never did it. Shelden never did it. JJ did it but he was on an entirely different level and, by his senior year, was playing on a team devoid of other consistent options besides Shelden. Boozer never did it, and he played on fast-paced teams. Brand never did it. Shane never did it . . . and the list goes on. 20ppg scorers at Duke tend to be juniors and seniors (Jay Williams was incredibly as a sophomore, but he did that on one of the fastest-paced teams in the country and shot A LOT of threes) and they tend to be guards. I think we can expect a lot of Jahlil, but 20 ppg is a tall order. Given the talent he'll have around him, I'm not even sure it's necessary.

[SilkyJ]

Jabari didn't do it.

He got to 19ppg...if Ok averages 19/9 instead of 20/10, all will be well.

[BD80]

He got to 19ppg...if Ok averages 19/9 instead of 20/10, all will be well.

All is well?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro&feature=player_detailpage

Uh oh

[hurleyfor3]

I think I was named America's Most Promising Kid in 1978. By my parents.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think I was named America's Most Promising Kid in 1978. By my parents.

I was named most likely to succeed in the world. And then I discovered beer.

[johnb]

I agree with everything you say except for this. 20 ppg is a BIG number. ....

as I think about it, that's true. I'm guessing the Vegas over and under would be closer to 17 ppg (which is about what Elton got in his 2nd season), though I do think he'll get close to the 10 rebounds.

[jimsumner]

Ferry, Laettner and Battier (sorta, 19.9) hit the 20-ppg threshold. All three were pretty good from the line, so K could keep them on the floor down the stretch. Same with Cherokee Parks, who averaged 19.2 in 1995. Shelden Williams averaged 18.8 as a senior, Elton Brand 17.7 as a soph, Mason Plumlee 17.1 as a senior.

So something in the 17-20 range seems realistic to me.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ferry, Laettner and Battier (sorta, 19.9) hit the 20-ppg threshold. All three were pretty good from the line, so K could keep them on the floor down the stretch. Same with Cherokee Parks, who averaged 19.2 in 1995. Shelden Williams averaged 18.8 as a senior, Elton Brand 17.7 as a soph, Mason Plumlee 17.1 as a senior.

So something in the 17-20 range seems realistic to me.

Ferry, Laettner, and Battier hit those marks as seniors. Same with MP2, Shelden, and Parks. It took Brand, the #1 pick in the NBA draft, a year under his belt to hit 17.7. You named some of the greatest Duke players of all time and most didn't hit the high teens until their junior or senior year (sophomore in Brand's case).

Okafor is a freshman, albiet an amazing freshman, so I'm quelling my expectations to 15-17 ppg. If he hits that, I'd be ecstatic.

[jimsumner]

Ferry, Laettner, and Battier hit those marks as seniors. Same with MP2, Shelden, and Parks. It took Brand, the #1 pick in the NBA draft, a year under his belt to hit 17.7. You named some of the greatest Duke players of all time and most didn't hit the high teens until their junior or senior year (sophomore in Brand's case).

Okafor is a freshman, albiet an amazing freshman, so I'm quelling my expectations to 15-17 ppg. If he hits that, I'd be ecstatic.

Sure. But the point (no pun intended :) ) under discussion was whether Duke big men could hit 20 ppg. The question didn't address class.

[gurufrisbee]

I just saw Okafor got #3 on ESPN's top hundred players in college basketball. And I might have missed it, but the only other Blue Devil I remember on the list was Tyus somewhere in the 40's or 50's, I think. I'm having a very difficult time believing that there are 100 better players than Cook - and maybe the same for Sheed, Amile, and/or Winslow.

[jcannon]

I just saw Okafor got #3 on ESPN's top hundred players in college basketball. And I might have missed it, but the only other Blue Devil I remember on the list was Tyus somewhere in the 40's or 50's, I think. I'm having a very difficult time believing that there are 100 better players than Cook - and maybe the same for Sheed, Amile, and/or Winslow.

Rasheed was listed at number 65. Tyus was listed at 45.

[InSpades]

Ferry, Laettner, and Battier hit those marks as seniors. Same with MP2, Shelden, and Parks. It took Brand, the #1 pick in the NBA draft, a year under his belt to hit 17.7. You named some of the greatest Duke players of all time and most didn't hit the high teens until their junior or senior year (sophomore in Brand's case).

Okafor is a freshman, albiet an amazing freshman, so I'm quelling my expectations to 15-17 ppg. If he hits that, I'd be ecstatic.

Most of those guys were playing against seniors too. The landscape of college basketball is very different nowadays. Freshman are more likely to be the best players in college basketball because the guys who could've been better have all left. If Jabari and Rodney were back I'd say 15 ppg would be a great season for Jahlil. They aren't back... Jahlil might have to do more. 20 ppg wouldn't shock me. If he doesn't get 15 ppg I'll be disappointed.

[luvdahops]

Most of those guys were playing against seniors too. The landscape of college basketball is very different nowadays. Freshman are more likely to be the best players in college basketball because the guys who could've been better have all left. If Jabari and Rodney were back I'd say 15 ppg would be a great season for Jahlil. They aren't back... Jahlil might have to do more. 20 ppg wouldn't shock me. If he doesn't get 15 ppg I'll be disappointed.

I think 17 and 10 is a very reasonable expectation. That would put him in the same company as Kevin Love and Jared Sullinger as frosh, neither of whom played on a team with as much depth and talent as Duke has this year. And I wouldn't be surprised if Jah averaged closer to 20 ppg in conference play.

[-jk]

I think 17 and 10 is a very reasonable expectation. That would put him in the same company as Kevin Love and Jared Sullinger as frosh, neither of whom played on a team with as much depth and talent as Duke has this year. And I wouldn't be surprised if Jah averaged closer to 20 ppg in conference play.

10 boards a game is even more rare than 20 points. I think Shelden is the only K player to pull it off (and he did it twice). MP2 got to 9.9 his senior year, and Elton got 9.8 as a soph.

Anything "and 10" is a very unreasonable expectation.

-jk

[luvdahops]

10 boards a game is even more rare than 20 points. I think Shelden is the only K player to pull it off (and he did it twice). MP2 got to 9.9 his senior year, and Elton got 9.8 as a soph.

Anything "and 10" is a very unreasonable expectation.

-jk

I guess I'm considering Elton and Mason to have been effectively 10 rpg. Zoubek and Miles as seniors both rebounded at rates that would have equated to 10+ In 28-30 mpg. So I would argue that is a reasonably high percentage of Duke bigs in the past decade to have rebounded at that rate. I have no reason to believe Jah can't be that effective on the glass.

FWIW, SI's predicted stats for Okafor are 16.1 and 9.1. I do not know the details of their methodology, but in looking over their predictions generally, there is definitely some skewing to the mean (only one guy nationally is projected to hit 20 ppg, at least among the major conferences).

[jimsumner]

I guess I'm considering Elton and Mason to have been effectively 10 rpg. Zoubek and Miles as seniors both rebounded at rates that would have equated to 10+ In 28-30 mpg. So I would argue that is a reasonably high percentage of Duke bigs in the past decade to have rebounded at that rate. I have no reason to believe Jah can't be that effective on the glass.

FWIW, SI's predicted stats for Okafor are 16.1 and 9.1. I do not know the details of their methodology, but in looking over their predictions generally, there is definitely some skewing to the mean (only one guy nationally is projected to hit 20 ppg, at least among the major conferences).

Mason had 359 rebounds in 36 games as a senior. The ACC and Duke consider that 10 rebounds per game.

Note that Jabari Parker led the ACC with 8.7 rebounds per game. Not bad for a freshman power forward. But a pretty low average to lead the ACC.

So, yes 10 rpg is a high goal. Then again we are talking about a 6-11, 270-pound, presumptive No. 1 pick in the next NBA draft. So, it's hardly an unattainable goal.

[Newton_14]

Most of those guys were playing against seniors too. The landscape of college basketball is very different nowadays. Freshman are more likely to be the best players in college basketball because the guys who could've been better have all left. If Jabari and Rodney were back I'd say 15 ppg would be a great season for Jahlil. They aren't back... Jahlil might have to do more. 20 ppg wouldn't shock me. If he doesn't get 15 ppg I'll be disappointed.
Totally agree. We are in a different era. Freshman aren't really freshmen any longer, especially the 4 we have this year, and the stars older than them are all in the NBA. That has to be accounted for. If I am comparing Jahlil to past Duke big men I have to compare his best with their best. He will put up numbers very close to the numbers of the guys Mr Sumner tossed out, and will smoke all of their freshman and likely sophomore numbers.

Things are just so different than when those guys played except for Mason obviously. But if you go back to Shelden, the game has changed drastically since he was the Landlord.

[InSpades]

Most of those guys were playing against seniors too. The landscape of college basketball is very different nowadays. Freshman are more likely to be the best players in college basketball because the guys who could've been better have all left. If Jabari and Rodney were back I'd say 15 ppg would be a great season for Jahlil. They aren't back... Jahlil might have to do more. 20 ppg wouldn't shock me. If he doesn't get 15 ppg I'll be disappointed.

I shouldn't really have said I'd be disappointed if he doesn't get to 15 ppg. In the end, success will be determined by wins and losses. I don't care if Jah gets 25 points against Presbyterian or not. As long as he comes through in the games we need him... that's what is important.

I still think 20 and 10 is not unreasonable. We had a freshman last year who put up 19 and 9 and I think it's fair to say he could have been better. Jabari was great, don't get me wrong, but there were definitely times that he settled for outside shots too much.

A lot will depend on how much we feed the ball into Jahlil. How many of our points from in transition? I for one hope he touches the ball on nearly every half court set. We've got a great low post (or even high post) threat, let's use it!

[Furniture]

Cool article. I am impressed by this young man and his father too.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2266585-with-heart-filled-with-love-and-loss-dukes-jahlil-okafor-ready-for-spotlight?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming