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mgtr
10-27-2014, 08:14 PM
Based on what little knowledge I have (mainly the B-W scrimmage), I think the starters will be Okafor, Jefferson, Winslow, Cook, M. Jones. Partly this is political -- starting the two captains, partly it is a mix between offense and defense, and partly it is a guess. What do you folks think?

mr. synellinden
10-27-2014, 08:17 PM
Based on what little knowledge I have (mainly the B-W scrimmage), I think the starters will be Okafor, Jefferson, Winslow, Cook, M. Jones. Partly this is political -- starting the two captains, partly it is a mix between offense and defense, and partly it is a guess. What do you folks think?

There is nothing political about the way Coach K sets his lineups. (Taking the last shot with a national championship on the line in St. Petersburg might be another story. :p) Tyus will start. Whether that means Matt or Quinn comes off the bench is an open question. I think the front line is correct for now.

CDu
10-27-2014, 08:17 PM
Based on what little knowledge I have (mainly the B-W scrimmage), I think the starters will be Okafor, Jefferson, Winslow, Cook, M. Jones. Partly this is political -- starting the two captains, partly it is a mix between offense and defense, and partly it is a guess. What do you folks think?

We have had reserves as captains in the past. I would suspect that T. Jones will start at PG. So I think either Cook starts at SG or he comes off the bench. I agree with your 3, 4, and 5 men, and possibly your 2 guard. Though it wouldn't shock me at all to see Cook or Sulaimon starting at SG.

Bob Green
10-27-2014, 08:18 PM
What do you folks think?

I think Tyus Jones starts.

AncientPsychicT
10-27-2014, 08:52 PM
Am I alone in thinking Matt Jones will start over Winslow at the 3? Everyone raves over Winslow's defense, and while it is very good, his offense is definitely still a work in progress from what I gathered at Countdown. Matt, on the other hand, exhibited not only excellent defense but also a savvy, opportunistic offensive game at Countdown complete with serviceable range from 3, something that I just didn't really see from Justise. Additionally, Matt has starting experience, recall that he started a couple games last year to strengthen our D, as well as system familiarity that comes with having already played a year here at Duke. If Matt can keep that deep shot falling at a reasonable frequency, I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him lock down that 3/SF starting spot ahead of Winslow.

Kedsy
10-27-2014, 08:57 PM
Am I alone in thinking Matt Jones will start over Winslow at the 3?

My guess is all of Quinn, Rasheed, Matt, and Justise will receive at least a couple of starts this season at the wing positions. Which two start in the first exhibition game, the first real game, or the last game of the season, I have no idea. That said, I still believe, in the end, Matt will end up with the 5th most minutes of our five perimeter options (behind Tyus, Quinn, Rasheed, and Justise). Of course, we won't know for sure for awhile.

mo.st.dukie
10-27-2014, 09:09 PM
Am I alone in thinking Matt Jones will start over Winslow at the 3? Everyone raves over Winslow's defense, and while it is very good, his offense is definitely still a work in progress from what I gathered at Countdown. Matt, on the other hand, exhibited not only excellent defense but also a savvy, opportunistic offensive game at Countdown complete with serviceable range from 3, something that I just didn't really see from Justise. Additionally, Matt has starting experience, recall that he started a couple games last year to strengthen our D, as well as system familiarity that comes with having already played a year here at Duke. If Matt can keep that deep shot falling at a reasonable frequency, I would not be surprised in the slightest to see him lock down that 3/SF starting spot ahead of Winslow.

Justise had 12 points, Matt had 10. He was 4-8 from the field and got to the line 6 times and also pulled down 6 boards. Justise is a do-everything kind of player and his offense is pretty good just different from what we as Duke fans are used to seeing at that SF position, mainly that he's not really much of a 3 point shooter. I think it's a really good thing to have Justise starting at the 3, he's a good slasher, can get to the rim and draw fouls. He has good handles for a guy his size and crashes the boards on both ends. He's a stat-sheet stuffer and brings a lot to the table, a lot of things that we haven't had on the wing since Singler.

I think it will be Tyus, Matt, Justise, Amile, and Jahlil for the first exhibition game. I also think Quinn Cook playing significant minutes at the 2 will not happen. Matt and Rasheed are very good right now and will be getting the majority of the minutes at the 2 as well as additional minutes for both at the 3. Coach K says that Matt is a better fit with Jahlil and the rest of the starters than Rasheed is but I think it will become apparent very quickly that Rasheed can mesh with the other starters and may replace Matt in the starting lineup. I don't think the starters will change as much as some think, it will mainly always be 5 of those top 7 players and there's really very little chance that Amile and Jahlil don't start every game barring injury. In that first half of CTC it was obvious how much better Tyus, Matt, Justise, Amile, and Jahlil were as a unit than the blue team.

Newton_14
10-27-2014, 10:05 PM
Based on what little knowledge I have (mainly the B-W scrimmage), I think the starters will be Okafor, Jefferson, Winslow, Cook, M. Jones. Partly this is political -- starting the two captains, partly it is a mix between offense and defense, and partly it is a guess. What do you folks think?

Props for starting this thread! After all of K's comments and then what we witnessed in the CTC game, this is a great topic that should drive great debate and discussion. I am certainly anxious to play!

So with that, my opinion, based on assessing each kid individually at CTC as well as assessing certain groupings playing together, I believe K rolls out the following starting lineup, exception being I am torn on SG.

PG- Tyus
SG- Matt or Rasheed(If you are making me pick one darn it, then fine, I am going out on a limb and saying Matt. Though something tells me it will be Rasheed)
SF- Justise Winslow
PF- Amile Jefferson
C- Jahlil Okafor

First Subs off the bench:
Quinn and Rasheed comes in for Matt and either Tyus or Winslow. (Swap Matt for Rasheed if Rasheed starts).
Second subs
Semi comes in for a look at PF replacing Amile (Basing this on Jim Sumner's current assessment of Semi)
MP3 comes in for Jahlil
Grayson comes in for any of (Matt, Quinn, Rasheed, Winslow, Tyus)
At some point midway of the 1st half we get our first look at small ball with Amile at the 5, Justise at the 4, Rasheed at the 3, Matt at the 2, Tyus at the 1.

As good as Winslow is, I am much less worried about what happens when Amile is resting than I was over the summer. With that, K can work many different looks while still having quality kids at every position. If Semi can also give solid minutes at the 4, then it just won't even be fair! :)

And after going head to head with Jahlil everyday is anybody in the world going to intimidate MP3 when he is in the game? He is going to feel like he is going up against a scrub on both ends no matter who we are playing! :)

Acymetric
10-27-2014, 10:43 PM
We have had reserves as captains in the past. I would suspect that T. Jones will start at PG. So I think either Cook starts at SG or he comes off the bench. I agree with your 3, 4, and 5 men, and possibly your 2 guard. Though it wouldn't shock me at all to see Cook or Sulaimon starting at SG.

I expect Jones and Cook will be the starters to start the season, but I also expect that combo will not work for a variety of reasons, including the fact that Quinn will be the worst 3 pt shooter of our potential shooting guards (plus it takes a team that could have a decided height advantage and makes it small). After the first 10 or so games I think the starting SG spot will rotate based on matchups (with Quinn still in the mix for starts throughout the season but not a consistent starter).

Kedsy
10-28-2014, 01:15 AM
...including the fact that Quinn will be the worst 3 pt shooter of our potential shooting guards...

Well, since all Quinn has done is shoot 37% from three last year and 39% from three the year before, while Tyus, Justise, and Grayson have combined to shoot exactly zero (0) three-pointers in an actual game while guarded by a college defender, and Matt (in college) is a career 14% shooter from three-land, so I can understand why you'd say Quinn "will be the worst 3 pt shooter of our potential shooting guards."

No, wait, I can't understand why you'd say that. Please explain.

subzero02
10-28-2014, 01:27 AM
I expect Jones and Cook will be the starters to start the season, but I also expect that combo will not work for a variety of reasons, including the fact that Quinn will be the worst 3 pt shooter of our potential shooting guards (plus it takes a team that could have a decided height advantage and makes it small). After the first 10 or so games I think the starting SG spot will rotate based on matchups (with Quinn still in the mix for starts throughout the season but not a consistent starter).

Quinn Cook was a much better 3 point shooter than Matt Jones last year and most would consider Cook to be a stronger 3 point threat than Grayson Allen. Sulaimon, in a down year, made 3's at a 41 percent clip compared to 37.1 percent for Cook. Sulaimon has proven to be a more accurate 3 point shooter with better 3 point shot selection (ie, not as much hero ball as Cook) but Cook is no slouch from 3. Cook made 65 3's last year in 1042 minutes of play( 1.9 3pg... 2.5 3pg/40 min) compared to Sulaimon's 43 made 3's in 871 minutes of play(1.3 3pg... 1.9 3pg/40 min). At worst, I'd rank Cook #2 of 4 amongst our 3 point threats from shooting guard and could easily see him leading the team in 3 pointers made and 3 point percentage this year.

ACCBBallFan
10-28-2014, 03:01 AM
After pondering it more, I see no reason why not to go with the J-formation to start

J - Jah

J - Jefferson

J - Justise

J - Jones, M.

J - Jones, T.

Matt just fits better than 3 guys who all need the ball (Jah, Jones, T and Sheed) or two short combos albeit success by UCONN, and Lville (Tyus and Quinn)

Duke really has 7 starters and can maintain full court pressure by subbing in Sheed/Quinn for the Jones boys with no loss of productivity, just a different look.

At some point give MP3 a chance a couple times each half to draw some fouls on the opponent's starting center, making Jah even more unstoppable against a big man in foul trouble and necessarily tentative.

Perhaps do this by keeping the three bigs as a tandem temporarily on the bench, and subbing in MP3 and 4 shooters Semi - Grayson - Matt and Quinn

(some others can shoot too but idea is to get the best 5 regardless of position rest together as worked at times last year). This would only be in 2-3 minute bursts before the lack of defense catches up with them.

Then a tired opponent has to deal with many folks' starters Jah-Jeffers0n-Justise-Sheed-Jones, T.

Get back to the two primary formations alternating Jones boys in J-formation or Sheed/Queen at the various TV commericals that come in 4-minute intervals so as to not have the three guys all needing the one ball in game too much together.

Since Duke really has 7 starters, in certain venues like against top 10 teams or first few tough road games, start the veterans the senior Quinn juniors Sheed and Amile with only two frosh Jah-Justise in lieu of Jones boys just to let the latter get their bearings a couple of minutes.

In each case set the tone at the start of the game based on opponent +/- and based on the venue, saving the J-formation for home non conference games and then see how it goes with respect to the ultimate starting combinations as the season progresses.

Having a bench of Sheed and Quinn is a luxury, no one except UK and a very few other NCAA teams would have.

mgtr
10-28-2014, 08:19 AM
After pondering it more, I see no reason why not to go with the J-formation to start

J - Jah

J - Jefferson

J - Justise

J - Jones, M.

J - Jones, T.


Very clever! I never thought about a J-formation. However, starting both T and M Jones might be a really good idea. I toyed with that. After all, the Celtics made hay for years with their Jones boys!

flyingdutchdevil
10-28-2014, 09:34 AM
I think there is a clear concensus (if not 100%) that Amile and the Oak are gonna start.

From there, it's up for debate. At the 1, I think it will be T. Jones. Coach K loves pass-first point guards. At the 2, I wanna say Sulaimon. 87% bias choice, 13% logic. The logic is that Sulaimon is, in Coach K's words, our best on-ball defender. You can't keep that from starting, especially after our awful defense last year. At the 3, Winslow. Provides additional rebounding (because we're going to be the best rebounding team in the country), defense, and intangibles.

Cook first man off the bench to relieve either T. Jones or Sulaimon. M. Jones to relieve either Sulaimon or Winslow (or Winslow moves to the 4 to relieve Amile). MP3 to relieve the Oak when he's in foul trouble.

77devil
10-28-2014, 10:11 AM
We have had reserves as captains in the past. I would suspect that T. Jones will start at PG. So I think either Cook starts at SG or he comes off the bench. I agree with your 3, 4, and 5 men, and possibly your 2 guard. Though it wouldn't shock me at all to see Cook or Sulaimon starting at SG.

With K's preference for senior leadership, and based on what I've read about Quinn taking on the responsibility, I expect him to get the nod and stay there unless he plays himself out of the starting lineup(which I don't expect). Like you though, it would not surprise me if Sheed starts instead or does so if Quinn trips up. I'm not sure on what all the support from others for Matt Jones is based. Until he demonstrates he can play much much better in real college games, I think he'll stay behind Quinn and Sulaimon in the rotation.

Troublemaker
10-28-2014, 10:48 AM
Based on Coach K's post-CTC presser and his pre-open-practice 20-minute interview (both on GoDuke) where he raves about Matt, it will be the Duke Blue Js. Jones, Jones, Justise, Jefferson, Jah

90% sure. Doesn't mean it will stay that way forever and ever (and not that it matters all that much, since all the 2-guard options will get good minutes). But Matt is the starter for now.

SilkyJ
10-28-2014, 11:06 AM
We have had reserves as captains in the past. I would suspect that T. Jones will start at PG. So I think either Cook starts at SG or he comes off the bench. I agree with your 3, 4, and 5 men, and possibly your 2 guard. Though it wouldn't shock me at all to see Cook or Sulaimon starting at SG.


With K's preference for senior leadership, and based on what I've read about Quinn taking on the responsibility, I expect him to get the nod and stay there unless he plays himself out of the starting lineup(which I don't expect). Like you though, it would not surprise me if Sheed starts instead or does so if Quinn trips up. I'm not sure on what all the support from others for Matt Jones is based. Until he demonstrates he can play much much better in real college games, I think he'll stay behind Quinn and Sulaimon in the rotation.

If our senior captain isn't able to start and be on the floor for 30mpg, I think it presents real issues for us. The traditional model & formula for success at Duke (X's & Os aside...they vary year to year somewhat) involves a senior captain who is among our best players. If Quinn is pushed down the rotation by Tyus and say Sheed, maybe Amile can pick up some of the leadership slack, but I look at the years we struggle in March and the years in which we do well, and a senior captain as one of our top players is either noticeably absent or stands front and center, respectively.

I've posted this many times before, but if you look at our final four teams, all but the '91 team had at least one senior start and be among our best players, and usually a captain:

'86: Dawkins/Alarie
'88: Strickland/King
'89: Ferry/Snyder
'90: Brickey
'91: (Lucky enough to have 3 of the greatest college players of all time in Laettner, Hurley, and Hill)
'92: Laettner
'94: Hill
'99: Langdon
'01: Battier
'04: Duhon
'10: Scheyer

In 2012 Miles was our lone senior and not good enough to start a lot and lead. Same for Tyler & Josh in 2014, Paulus in 2009, 2007 didn't have any seniors so maybe that's an exception all together...

If Quinn can't make a Duhon/Snyder/King-like impact (and those guys made most of their impact on being floor generals and great defense, not scoring), then I'm not sure how far we go. Quinn's a good & willing passer, but scoring seems to be his forte, and we have enough scorers. We need his defense and leadership to earn him starting minutes or we may see an exit similar to '14/'12/'09...

COYS
10-28-2014, 11:07 AM
Based on Coach K's post-CTC presser and his pre-open-practice 20-minute interview (both on GoDuke) where he raves about Matt, it will be the Duke Blue Js. Jones, Jones, Justise, Jefferson, Jah

90% sure. Doesn't mean it will stay that way forever and ever (and not that it matters all that much, since all the 2-guard options will get good minutes). But Matt is the starter for now.

For the fun of it, I'll go ahead and say I agree with all of this with the same qualifications. In fact, I agree with what Kedsy said earlier that no matter who starts, Matt will probably be 5th in minutes compared to Quinn, Tyus, Rasheed, and Justise. Still, I think Matt starts the first game. I only have the B/W scrimmage to go on (where I thought Rasheed was very impressive, for the record), but the explosive defensive potential of a starting unit with both Matt and Justise combined with Matt's apparent improvement on the offensive end make me think he'll get the nod. It might end up like it did two years ago, when Alex Murphy started the first exhibition game and then didn't play much the rest of the year. I doubt Matt falls out of the rotation like Murphy. He'll get plenty of burn. But I still think that at the end of the day, it's gonna be to hard to keep Rasheed and Quinn off the court, despite Matt's ability.

Clay Feet POF
10-28-2014, 11:44 AM
If our senior captain isn't able to start and be on the floor for 30mpg, I think it presents real issues for us. The traditional model & formula for success at Duke (X's & Os aside...they vary year to year somewhat) involves a senior captain who is among our best players. If Quinn is pushed down the rotation by Tyus and say Sheed, maybe Amile can pick up some of the leadership slack, but I look at the years we struggle in March and the years in which we do well, and a senior captain as one of our top players is either noticeably absent or stands front and center, respectively.

I've posted this many times before, but if you look at our final four teams, all but the '91 team had at least one senior start and be among our best players, and usually a captain:

'86: Dawkins/Alarie
'88: Strickland/King
'89: Ferry/Snyder
'90: Brickey
'91: (Lucky enough to have 3 of the greatest college players of all time in Laettner, Hurley, and Hill)
'92: Laettner
'94: Hill
'99: Langdon
'01: Battier
'04: Duhon
'10: Scheyer

In 2012 Miles was our lone senior and not good enough to start a lot and lead. Same for Tyler & Josh in 2014, Paulus in 2009, 2007 didn't have any seniors so maybe that's an exception all together...

If Quinn can't make a Duhon/Snyder/King-like impact (and those guys made most of their impact on being floor generals and great defense, not scoring), then I'm not sure how far we go. Quinn's a good & willing passer, but scoring seems to be his forte, and we have enough scorers. We need his defense and leadership to earn him starting minutes or we may see an exit similar to '14/'12/'09...

Can’t argue with your facts. But I think Jefferson starts and therefore we can afford to start Tyus our best point guard.

I just love all the talent we have and all the lineup choices available... Almost like building your own Hot Rod!

flyingdutchdevil
10-28-2014, 11:50 AM
How exciting is it that there are 8 players who can legitimately start, and I don't think it would come as a surprise. When was the last time this happened?

Kedsy
10-28-2014, 11:59 AM
How exciting is it that there are 8 players who can legitimately start, and I don't think it would come as a surprise. When was the last time this happened?

Who's the 8th player?

flyingdutchdevil
10-28-2014, 12:04 PM
Who's the 8th player?

...7 players? I must have miscounted in my head. It's 8 rotation players, but 8 potential starters. You're right.

Duvall
10-28-2014, 12:06 PM
How exciting is it that there are 8 players who can legitimately start, and I don't think it would come as a surprise. When was the last time this happened?

Duke had nine players start games last season. Whether those were legitimate starts is a matter of opinion.

MChambers
10-28-2014, 12:12 PM
How exciting is it that there are 8 players who can legitimately start, and I don't think it would come as a surprise. When was the last time this happened?
If you judge by the offseason posts, it happens every year, right until the first game is played. Then reality sets in.

I hope we go a true eight deep, but I'm not expecting it.

BigZ
10-28-2014, 12:40 PM
I have to be honest I've not really followed much of the offseason but in order for Matt Jones to start over Cook and Sulimon he would have had to make a giant leap in production from last year where he didn't see much meaningful minutes.

CDu
10-28-2014, 01:37 PM
I have to be honest I've not really followed much of the offseason but in order for Matt Jones to start over Cook and Sulimon he would have had to make a giant leap in production from last year where he didn't see much meaningful minutes.

Jones has gotten a lot of run with the first team so far this preseason. Whether that's because he has made a big jump or because Coach K just likes the way he fits with the first team guys, or because it is just Coach K trying to balance sides for practice, or because it is Coach K just messing with us, I don't know. But based on the limited sample so far, it's not out of the question that M. Jones will start some for us.

I agree that this seems crazy, as both Sulaimon and Cook have at times played at All-ACC levels (and Cook has even been honored as an All-ACC guy).

BigZ
10-28-2014, 01:47 PM
Jones has gotten a lot of run with the first team so far this preseason. Whether that's because he has made a big jump or because Coach K just likes the way he fits with the first team guys, or because it is just Coach K trying to balance sides for practice, or because it is Coach K just messing with us, I don't know. But based on the limited sample so far, it's not out of the question that M. Jones will start some for us.

I agree that this seems crazy, as both Sulaimon and Cook have at times played at All-ACC levels (and Cook has even been honored as an All-ACC guy).

I could see Jones starting along side Suliamon or Cook but not in place of both. I just don't see how you can have two experienced ball handlers on the bench with five guys with little experience. Jefferson would be the most experience starter and while he is a Junior he doesn't have nearly as much experience as Suliamon.

jimsumner
10-28-2014, 02:45 PM
Matt Jones has looked like a much-improved player the times I have seen him this pre-season. He will be in the rotation.

I think we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that Duke will have A Starting Lineup. I suspect Duke will have several.

And I do think T. Jones and Cook will play together a fair amount.

CDu
10-28-2014, 02:48 PM
Matt Jones has looked like a much-improved player the times I have seen him this pre-season. He will be in the rotation.

I think we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that Duke will have A Starting Lineup. I suspect Duke will have several.

And I do think T. Jones and Cook will play together a fair amount.

I totally agree with all of this.

_Gary
10-28-2014, 02:51 PM
I totally agree with all of this.

As do I. Seriously, I do (in case someone thinks I'm just kidding).

subzero02
10-28-2014, 03:16 PM
I expect to see several different starting lineups during the pre-conference season and the first half of conference play. Once we enter the second half of conference play, I expect/hope to see consistency in the makeup of our starting lineup and the distribution of bench minutes. Matt's role in the rotation will depend on his ability to knock down the open 3. Okafor, Amile and Tyus are going to create a lot of open looks for the wings and capitalizing on those chances will be essential in maximizing the efficiency of our halfcourt offense. Matt only made 3 three point field goals last year, he will need to shoot well in these exhibition and early season games if he wants to see a lot court time moving forward. Sulaimon and Cook are too deadly from 3 to sit on the bench in favor of someone who struggles from deep.

flyingdutchdevil
10-28-2014, 03:30 PM
I expect to see several different starting lineups during the pre-conference season and the first half of conference play. Once we enter the second half of conference play, I expect/hope to see consistency in the makeup of our starting lineup and the distribution of bench minutes. Matt's role in the rotation will depend on his ability to knock down the open 3. Okafor, Amile and Tyus are going to create a lot of open looks for the wings and capitalizing on those chances will be essential in maximizing the efficiency of our halfcourt offense. Matt only made 3 three point field goals last year, he will need to shoot well in these exhibition and early season games if he wants to see a lot court time moving forward. Sulaimon and Cook are too deadly from 3 to sit on the bench in favor of someone who struggles from deep.

What makes you think that Amile and Tyus will create open looks for other players? Both are good players (potentially very good), but Amile has never proven in his two years at Duke to command a double team nor take his man off the dribble. Tyus is a fantastic PG, but I'm not sure he fits the "JWill" or "Ty Lawson" mold. Tyus will absolutely find open players based on screens and set plays with his accurate passing, but he's not gonna command a double team either. The Oak, on the other hand, will absolutely create dozens for looks for M. Jones and other 3pt shooters.

subzero02
10-28-2014, 03:42 PM
I meant those 3 will excel at finding the open 3 point shooter... Oak off of double teams, Amile from the high post (as teams will cheat in on okafor in anticipation of an entry pass) and also off of offensive rebounds and tyus will find the the open wings for 3 in the natural flow of the offense. Amile has shown very good passing instincts so far, Okafor has been praised for his passing ability in practice and Tyus has a strong reputation as a pass first point guard who plays under control.

Ichabod Drain
10-28-2014, 04:18 PM
Looks like the white team lineup hasn't changed since CTC.

Clicky (https://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/527176591227756544)

Kedsy
10-28-2014, 04:41 PM
Looks like the white team lineup hasn't changed since CTC.

Clicky (https://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/527176591227756544)

Except unlike CTC, the blue team (Quinn/Rasheed/Semi/Grayson/Marshall) is playing a tie game with those starters. Which would seem to imply that some players on blue are outplaying some players on white (and thus perhaps our best five players are not all on the white team).

This is also consistent with reports of closed scrimmages prior to CTC, and reinforces Coach K's comment that there hasn't been a lot of separation among the players yet.

Listen to Quants
10-28-2014, 06:33 PM
Except unlike CTC, the blue team (Quinn/Rasheed/Semi/Grayson/Marshall) is playing a tie game with those starters. Which would seem to imply that some players on blue are outplaying some players on white (and thus perhaps our best five players are not all on the white team).

This is also consistent with reports of closed scrimmages prior to CTC, and reinforces Coach K's comment that there hasn't been a lot of separation among the players yet.

I have not scourged the Interwebs for scrimmage results but this makes three for three in close blue/white 'games' I've heard of when Okafor/Jefferson and three of (TJones, MJones, Winslow, Cook, RS) were all on one side. I was delighted to see the CTC result with that structure was a blow out (so maybe 3/4?). I hope to see more reports of such blow outs. Absent that, explanations of the results from (hypothetical future) consistent close practice games with these groups include: the one you suggest (best 5 are not one the white team), random event, the plausible starters team is handicapped by the coaches (something like they are working on particular things in the scrimmage so it is far from normal college basketball), other?

MCFinARL
10-28-2014, 09:06 PM
Except unlike CTC, the blue team (Quinn/Rasheed/Semi/Grayson/Marshall) is playing a tie game with those starters. Which would seem to imply that some players on blue are outplaying some players on white (and thus perhaps our best five players are not all on the white team).

This is also consistent with reports of closed scrimmages prior to CTC, and reinforces Coach K's comment that there hasn't been a lot of separation among the players yet.

Yes. My gut instinct is that Quinn Cook will start, probably with Tyus Jones, in the first game, even if that means that one of M. Jones/R. Sulaimon/J. Winslow is not starting. After that, hard to say what may happen, though I agree with (I think) you and some other posters that we may see a number of different starting lineups over the course of the season.

ACCBBallFan
10-28-2014, 09:11 PM
Based on Coach K's post-CTC presser and his pre-open-practice 20-minute interview (both on GoDuke) where he raves about Matt, it will be the Duke Blue Js. Jones, Jones, Justise, Jefferson, Jah

90% sure. Doesn't mean it will stay that way forever and ever (and not that it matters all that much, since all the 2-guard options will get good minutes). But Matt is the starter for now.

As long as Toronto does not have a copyright, I like Duke Blue Jays more than any of my attempts to name the likely starteers 5-J, J-formation etc

Jah

Jefferson

Justise

Jones, M

Jone, T

Until someone comes up with a better nickname, Duke Blue Jays it is for me.

Zmac32
10-28-2014, 10:03 PM
Talk about a good problem to have..

I would think this really comes down to whether or not Quinn gets the nod at the 2 (therefore pushing Sheed over to the 3). While defensively, I think a much more effective lineup would be JW at the 3 and Sheed playing his natural role in the off-guard spot. I really like the defensive versatility that combination would allow on the wings..that's a pretty tough blend of length and athleticism.

That being said I think this team is built around one man: Okafor. A lineup consisting of Quinn at the 2 and Sheed at the 3 would allow them to space the floor incredibly well offensively. Consequently, teams will be faced with the tough choice of doubling down on Jahlil (creating opportunities for open threes), or showing soft-help and letting Okafor essentially go 1-on-1 in the post.

I'm going to guess that's the way we go. It also helps that it would be the more experienced lineup of the two, featuring more facilitators.

Troublemaker
10-28-2014, 10:05 PM
Until someone comes up with a better nickname, Duke Blue Jays it is for me.

I kinda liked your J-formation myself. Props for noticing the J pattern in the first place!

Kedsy
10-28-2014, 10:11 PM
After that, hard to say what may happen, though I agree with (I think) you and some other posters that we may see a number of different starting lineups over the course of the season.

Oh, I totally agree. I think that (absent injury) Jahlil and Amile probably start most every game, that Tyus starts the vast majority (if not all), and that Coach K will try a number of different lineups with Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, and Matt all starting at least a few games.

A more interesting question to me is who of that group will get the most minutes?

uh_no
10-28-2014, 10:16 PM
as long as toronto does not have a copyright, i like duke blue jays more than any of my attempts to name the likely starteers 5-j, j-formation etc

jah

jefferson

justise

jones, m

jone, t

until someone comes up with a better nickname, duke blue jays it is for me.

jjjj dynomite!

Duvall
10-28-2014, 10:19 PM
Oh, I totally agree. I think that (absent injury) Jahlil and Amile probably start most every game, that Tyus starts the vast majority (if not all), and that Coach K will try a number of different lineups with Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, and Matt all starting at least a few games.

A more interesting question to me is who of that group will get the most minutes?

Jefferson. Or did you mean of the five guards and wings?

Troublemaker
10-28-2014, 10:20 PM
I could see Jones starting along side Suliamon or Cook but not in place of both. I just don't see how you can have two experienced ball handlers on the bench with five guys with little experience.



That being said I think this team is built around one man: Okafor. A lineup consisting of Quinn at the 2 and Sheed at the 3 would allow them to space the floor incredibly well offensively...
I'm going to guess that's the way we go. It also helps that it would be the more experienced lineup of the two, featuring more facilitators.

I don't think, at this point, Coach K is looking for more ball-handlers / facilitators with the first unit. In the post-CTC presser, Coach K said Jah and Tyus will have the ball a lot, and Matt fits in well with the first unit because he doesn't need the ball (http://www.goduke.com//mediaPortal/player.dbml?POPOUT=1&db_oem_id=4200&id=3497892&catid=13807&start=205).

The real point of this post is to test that link right there. If I did it right, it should take you straight to the quote in Coach K's presser.

The GoDuke videos of pressers and interviews of coaches and players have become invaluable to this fan's experience over the past few years. I think others might concur. It's just good to know what Coach and the guys are thinking.

Newton_14
10-28-2014, 10:41 PM
Yes. My gut instinct is that Quinn Cook will start, probably with Tyus Jones, in the first game, even if that means that one of M. Jones/R. Sulaimon/J. Winslow is not starting. After that, hard to say what may happen, though I agree with (I think) you and some other posters that we may see a number of different starting lineups over the course of the season.

I was of the mindset that Quinn would start too, after hearing the talks coming out of summer workouts and practices from the coaching staff that they were preparing to play Quinn and Ty together. However, after watching the CTC games, I changed my mind. Like others have said the starters will change and probably a lot over the first part of the season or longer even, but as of right now, based on what I saw, I feel the starters in that first exhibition game will be either the all J line up, or Rasheed at the 2 instead of Matt.

I think Quinn comes off the bench that first game or two unless he plays his way into the starting line up in the practices between now and the first game. I am looking forward to going to the open practice this Saturday and see what combinations K rolls out when they do 5 on 5 full court scrimmages.

I do feel like as others have mentioned we currently have 7 "starters" and that all of the 7 will start some games between now and January. The other 3 guys, MP3, Grayson, Semi are darn good players, but likely to not start any games barring injury.


There is a lot of ball to be played and a lot of sorting out to take place as the team forms its identity. I do love the full court pressing at every opportunity and K will possibly sub a little more liberally, especially among the top 8 guys to keep fresh guys on the floor to apply that end to end pressure..

Can't wait for it to get here. We can watch quality hoops and quality Football each week!

mattman91
10-28-2014, 11:40 PM
jjjj dynomite!

My mother calls Amile "JJ", because he looks a lot like JJ from Good Times. Needless to say, he is her favorite player.

Kedsy
10-29-2014, 12:39 AM
Jefferson. Or did you mean of the five guards and wings?

Yes, that is what I meant.

Although I could throw Jahlil and Amile into the mix and the minute distribution would still interest me. I'm not convinced Amile will lead the team in mpg, for example.

ACCBBallFan
10-29-2014, 12:51 AM
I may have a slight preferance for Duke Blue J-crew

J - Jah

J - Jefferson

J - Justise

J - Jones, M.

J - Jones, T

Why violate only one patent when you can indrectly violate two: Bluejays and J. Crew

InSpades
10-29-2014, 03:55 PM
It might not be the 1st exhibition game (and really, who cares about the 1st exhibition game?) but I'll be shocked if Rasheed isn't starting a bunch of games this year. There's a good chance he's our 2nd best player. Last year was not what he wanted I'm sure... or what anyone else wanted for him but I think he did a good job fighting back and I think he will be ready to step things up this year.

Not a knock on anyone but I'll believe the Matt Jones hype when he does it in games. This is a guy who shot 14% from 3, 30% overall and 56% from the line last year. I hope he shows a huge improvement and has a great sophomore year but to expect him to start over Rasheed is a bit much for me.

Of course there's more than just Matt Jones in Rasheed's way... which brings us to Winslow. I expect him to be very good this year. That being said... I can see him playing a lot at the 4 instead of the 3. Someone needs to fill up those minutes that Okafor and Jefferson don't. Figure those 2 get between 25 and 30 every night... that still leaves 25. I don't expect that Marshall will fill them (more likely he will play the 10 or so that Okafor doesn't). Which leaves minutes at the 4... I'll believe Semi is ready when he shows he's ready. So Winslow gets 10-15 at the 4 and a few more at the 3.

Yes. I'm fully aware that no one seems to want to play small. No one wants Cook at the 2 and they certainly don't want Rasheed at the 3. But I think it will happen a decent amount and it's certainly a possibility for starting.

The 5 guys who will get the most starts this year are Okafor, Jefferson, Sulaimon, Cook and T. Jones.

MCFinARL
10-29-2014, 04:55 PM
Oh, I totally agree. I think that (absent injury) Jahlil and Amile probably start most every game, that Tyus starts the vast majority (if not all), and that Coach K will try a number of different lineups with Quinn, Rasheed, Justise, and Matt all starting at least a few games.

A more interesting question to me is who of that group will get the most minutes?

I agree, that is an interesting question, and not the less so because I suspect no one yet knows the answer, including the coaches.

cato
10-29-2014, 05:05 PM
As long as Toronto does not have a copyright, I like Duke Blue Jays more than any of my attempts to name the likely starteers 5-J, J-formation etc

Jah

Jefferson

Justise

Jones, M

Jone, T

Until someone comes up with a better nickname, Duke Blue Jays it is for me.

Whatever you call them, it's going to be fun when the Js are rolling.

mattman91
10-29-2014, 06:38 PM
Whatever you call them, it's going to be fun when the Js are rolling.

Tell that to P.J. :cool:

ChillinDuke
10-29-2014, 06:59 PM
I was of the mindset that Quinn would start too, after hearing the talks coming out of summer workouts and practices from the coaching staff that they were preparing to play Quinn and Ty together. However, after watching the CTC games, I changed my mind. Like others have said the starters will change and probably a lot over the first part of the season or longer even, but as of right now, based on what I saw, I feel the starters in that first exhibition game will be either the all J line up, or Rasheed at the 2 instead of Matt.

Have to agree, Newt.

Based solely on CTC, I no longer think Quinn starts. Which saddens me. But tough to argue he looked much improved, if at all. And perhaps more importantly, he did not deal well with Tyus' pressure (when applied intensely) nor did he seem able to break down the D.

Just one scrimmage. But count me in the group that has now flipped to a clear Tyus starting belief (the distinction being Quinn off the bench; not off-guard).

- Chillin