Countdown to Craziness Reports

[JBDuke]

Speaking as someone who couldn't be there and who is too cheap to pay for the streaming video service, I'd love to hear from anyone who went or watched and could give a report on how they looked!

[bbosbbos]

Will highlights or replay available tomorrow online?

[trinity92]

Okafor was effortlessly dominant. Great hands, soft shooting touch, aggressive without being out of control. Very smooth, although Amil did post him in the second period and scored on a nice reverse. It was clear Marshall couldn't do anything to stop him. In fact, I thought I might have seen Quinn pull Okafor aside in the second period and tell him not to make Marshall look bad, b/c he was starting to feel his oats and get a little cocky with his moves.

Rasheed played with a lot of fire, and only seemed to force his shot a couple times.

Justise was as advertised, athletic, solid D, decent outside shot. He just seemed to belong out there, played very comfortably and didn't seem like a freshman.

Tyus Jones was very solid, lived up to his reputation as a playmaker. Was very poised, penetrated the lane a couple times and played better defense than I was led to believe he would.

Matt Jones was on the white team in the first period with Jones, Okafor, Winslow and Jefferson. He played great D, had a couple outside shots fall and a floater or two in the lane. His shot is still awkward looking, but he was very solid and looked like he is ready to contribute more this year.

Jefferson looked more relaxed out there. Less excited when he had the ball. Scored effectively, both on opportunistic plays and also looked for his shot a couple times without forcing. Definitely looks like he is picking up right where he left off last season but with added maturity and confidence.

Semi looked great-- much more comfortable than last year. Just hard to see how he will get minutes.

Grayson Allen shows a lot of promise and moved his feet very well in the second half defending Rasheed. He also has a love shooting stroke. However, he was the most physically immature of our players. He will really benefit from strength and bulk.

Quinn seemed very much the same player as we have come to know. He seemed to tweak something very early In the game, so not sure if that was holding him back.

Marshall was the same Marshall. Had difficulty staying with Okafor, although I think most people will fare simarly against him. Don't think he scored a basket.

A recruit, perhaps Dennis Smith, sat next to K most of the second period and k was talking to him A lot.

Jay Bilas, Cherokee Parks and Bobby Hurley were in attendance.

[Ichabod Drain]

Speaking as someone who couldn't be there and who is too cheap to pay for the streaming video service, I'd love to hear from anyone who went or watched and could give a report on how they looked!

Watched the game on my computer. Couple of overview notes.

The 1st 12 minute half had a White team of Okafor, Jefferson, Winslow, M Jones and T Jones. Blue was Obviously Plumlee, Ojeleye, Sulaimon, Allen, and Cook.

2nd 12 minutes had a White Team of Okafor, Ojeleye, Justise, Allen and Cook. Blue was Plumlee, Jefferson, Sulaimon, M Jones and T Jones.

Okafor was absolutely dominant. He made everything close to the basket as well as some 10-15 ft jumpers including bank shots. I believe he ended with 27 and 12 total.

To me it seemed Sulaimon was the next best player after Okafor. He was getting in the lane, finishing at the rim and drawing fouls. Still looking consistent from three as well.

Cook, Winslow, T Jones, Jefferson, and M jones were all very solid. They all performed about as I had expected. Nothing too spectacular but they all performed their roles very well. Matt Jones seems to have found his shot. Hopefully it carries over to the season.

Plumlee and Allen were good as well. Plumlee got himself in good position with the ball multiple times but had some difficulty finishing shots.

While I wouldn't say Semi played bad I would say he was (in my opinion) the least impactful player on the court. He made a three and got to the foul line once I believe but other than that I didn't notice him at all hardly.

Last note my favorite play of the night was in the first half. Okafor had the ball on a breakaway and went up for a dunk but Sulaimon came from out of nowhere behind him and blocked the shot then saved the ball from going out of bounds which was quickly passed down court where Allen buried a three.

Just my two ha'pennys

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

The cup stacking girl was awesome. The player intros were pretty great. The Everything else was a bit lacking in energy. But it's hard to keep it loud and energetic for very long, especially for the blue and white game.

Thoughts on a few players:

Okafor -- Stood out from everyone else by a mile. He is an absolute stud. The real deal. Great footwork. Effortless moves inside. Powerful against Plumlee. But probably the most impressive part was his ability to take the 8-12 footer. They were gimmes for him. Straight on. At an angle using the glass. He put on a big man clinic all night. People all around us were just shaking their heads after every one of his baskets. Unbelievably exciting.

Sheed -- He worked hard all night. You could see his intensity. Made a bunch of amazingly tough shots, the kind you are used to seeing him make. Really nice one early over Okafor - that patented drive with a slide fade away at the end to make space. Couple nice threes. Tough on D. Chased down Okafor on a breakaway and made him miss the dunk. He could really be a huge spark for us this year. I think it's his time.

Amile -- Played his type of game. Good D. Couple nice drives and moves inside. Good rebounding position. He is absolutely our glue man. He'll be better as a junior than Lance was as a senior. Love him as captain. An obvious choice and he showed it tonight.

Cook -- You can already see how interesting it will be to have him at the 2. Playing off the ball, he made some nice 3s. At point he did his thing, played under control. He did have a 5 second call against him -- can't recall who got that one on him. He and Tyus played opposite each other in first game and they really went at each other. That competition is gonna be great for the both of them.

Tyus -- Had some flashes of greatness. Couple jumpers. Nice floater in the lane. Several great assists. He'll be an asset right away but you can see he has plenty of room to grow. Excited about him as he gains a little experience against live college level competition.

Justise -- Played hard. His handle isn't very refined. But he still managed a couple of nice drives. Made a few jumpers. He was not afraid to put up shots tonight. I cannot imagine him as a one-year guy. He's here at least 2 years.

Matt -- He played fantastic defense. Didn't get as much of a chance to shine on the offensive end but made a few nice plays. At least one really nice drive if I recall correctly and jumper or two. He still seems to rush his shot a little but he looks like he's ready to take his game up a level this year.

Grayson -- The kid has game. His handle is surprisingly good. He made some nice shots. Couple of sweet assists. His athleticism is really amazing. He should have won the dunk contest based on his first dunk alone but tried some really tough ones in the final against MP3. It's gonna be hard for him to get a lot of PT this year but I love this kid across four years. He's going to be a contributor.

MP3 -- Played tough. You can see he is working on his inside game. Made some nice moves but he has no ability to finish. Missed all his attempts at the baby hook. The ball just comes off his hands like a anvil. But I like his energy and he'll be able to spell Okafor and play tough D. Will be interesting to see how he develops across the year playing against Okafor.

Semi -- I watched him hit like 9 out of 10 3's during warm ups. He can shoot the rock. And his shoulders look even bigger than before if that's even possible. Guess that's part of why he won the Iron Devil award again. I loved his defense. And he grabbed a couple of monster rebounds, one while holding off Okafor. With strong D and his 3pt potential, I won;t be surprised to see him getting a few minutes this year.

Overall, it was pretty exciting. Both teams pressed almost all game long. You can see they are working hard and are going to put a lot of defensive pressure on our opponents this year. We have the size and speed to really get after it. I think it's going to be fun watching them play D this year, especially with a deep bench and guys fighting for a little extra PT. And we're going to be so balanced on offense with Okafor and Amile inside. Super exciting to say the least.

[fuse]

Most of the preceding posts have captured all the important details better than I ever could.

Best player on the court, Okafor.

Best tandem on the court, Okafor and T. Jones.

The first half white team looked to me like our best team will be Okafor, T. Jones, Winslow, Jefferson and any of our other guards ( Sheed, Cook, M. Jones ).

I did not think Rasheed looked great in the first half, he was much more effective in the second.

I don't think we will platoon, I do think in spite of the drop off with Plumlee and Ojeleye, we could.

Quinn has not developed the chemistry with Okafor that T. Jones already has.

We have more than enough talent to run with anyone.
How Quinn and Rasheed ( and the overall team) chemistry meshes with Okafor, T. Jones, and Winslow will be a huge factor in how far this team goes.

[Merlindevildog91]

FYI-Quinn had ice on his left ankle when he left the court. Hopefully he can get that cleared up quickly. Other than that, I don't have much to add. Okafor played like he came down from another league, and I hope the hustling Rasheed of the second half is the one we get all year.

[uh_no]

fyi-quinn had ice on his left ankle when he left the court. Hopefully he can get that cleared up quickly. Other than that, i don't have much to add. Okafor played like he came down from another league, and i hope the hustling rasheed of the second half is the one we get all year.

quinn cook ankle ice vigil!!!

[Gthoma2a]

Okafor was effortlessly dominant. Great hands, soft shooting touch, aggressive without being out of control. Very smooth, although Amil did post him in the second period and scored on a nice reverse. It was clear Marshall couldn't do anything to stop him. In fact, I thought I might have seen Quinn pull Okafor aside in the second period and tell him not to make Marshall look bad, b/c he was starting to feel his oats and get a little cocky with his moves.

Rasheed played with a lot of fire, and only seemed to force his shot a couple times.

Justise was as advertised, athletic, solid D, decent outside shot. He just seemed to belong out there, played very comfortably and didn't seem like a freshman.

Tyus Jones was very solid, lived up to his reputation as a playmaker. Was very poised, penetrated the lane a couple times and played better defense than I was led to believe he would.

Matt Jones was on the white team in the first period with Jones, Okafor, Winslow and Jefferson. He played great D, had a couple outside shots fall and a floater or two in the lane. His shot is still awkward looking, but he was very solid and looked like he is ready to contribute more this year.

Jefferson looked more relaxed out there. Less excited when he had the ball. Scored effectively, both on opportunistic plays and also looked for his shot a couple times without forcing. Definitely looks like he is picking up right where he left off last season but with added maturity and confidence.

Semi looked great-- much more comfortable than last year. Just hard to see how he will get minutes.

Grayson Allen shows a lot of promise and moved his feet very well in the second half defending Rasheed. He also has a love shooting stroke. However, he was the most physically immature of our players. He will really benefit from strength and bulk.

Quinn seemed very much the same player as we have come to know. He seemed to tweak something very early In the game, so not sure if that was holding him back.

Marshall was the same Marshall. Had difficulty staying with Okafor, although I think most people will fare simarly against him. Don't think he scored a basket.

A recruit, perhaps Dennis Smith, sat next to K most of the second period and k was talking to him A lot.

Jay Bilas, Cherokee Parks and Bobby Hurley were in attendance.

Marshall scored on a put-back. Impossible not to enjoy out there, because he plays his hardest every minute.

Tyus needs to get stronger, but is very good. His only play I questioned was an errant pass into the stands, but otherwise, very good.

Justise has all of the skills ,but players did get past him, at times. It just seemed like he would cheat too much to one side, rather than not being able to stay in front (if he needed to). He needs to work on his offense, but he is very capable of making those improvements.

Quinn was much the same player, but I like him (he loves Duke and plays with fire, for better or worse).

Rasheed played well, and hit a shot that I wish he wouldn't have (it was a wild fling at the basket that will encourage him to do it in the future).

Matt hit a few 3-pointers. He had very good defense and he has learned what Rasheed hasn't, to use a floater. He could be a stabilizing force, as Sheed is much more volatile (explosive, but with varying ability to maintain his emotions and select his shots.

Grayson's belief that he is a shooter hasn't had as much truth as would be nice, but he has shown that he is a very good and, in a good way, pain of a player (he is going to annoy the opposition).

Amile is the same (he has not shot from 3 feet out). He did seem to be vocal, though. I hope that translates to better defense, when he is out there. I wish it was Tyus or Quinn doing that job on offense, but he seemed to be trying to direct people on offense, as well, for a couple of possessions.

Okafor looked incredible. He looked like he believed that every shot he took would go down, and they almost did. Sulaimon got bragging rights by blocking a lazy dunk of his, when Okafor didn't see Sheed coming. Other than that, a huge impact player.

Semi looked much improved, and, for that, I was really happy. He must have exhausted himself in the game, because he got rejected repeatedly by the rim trying to win the dunk contest. He was attacking the basket in this game (not with dunks), but he seemed a little too stiff to get the finish on a lot of his moves. It almost seems like he could use to stay out of the gym for a little while to get more loose in his movements.

Overall, things looked pretty good against each other. Hopefully, we can play as well against other teams. It is easier to play someone you know. I loved the intensity, as we had guys go to the floor and into the stands for the ball. Quinn was hurt on a play where Justise blocked his shot and fouled him into the stands. Justise just seems like a hard nosed player. It is great to have that.

[Newton_14]

Second qualifier- I reserve the right to change my assessment of tonight after these kids play about 5 to 10 games counting the exhibitions. I distinctly recall texting Kedsy in a panic last year during the first half of our first exhibition game against the DII School who at the time was carving up our defense like swiss cheese. I knew in my heart that day that our defense sucked and we were in big trouble on that end of the floor. We were actually behind at the half that day which is unheard of in the exhibition games against the DII opponents.

Tonight, I left Cameron Indoor absolutely giddy over what I had just witnessed, and I over heard a couple of parents of current players and two dads of recruits that were there who were discussing after the game, down on the floor, how wowed they were at this team. If you put a gun to my head right now I would be forced to say this team is better right now than last year's team was. Again, its just the Blue/White, and I reserve the right to change my tune after seeing those 5 to 10 games. But wow.

In the first half the team of Tyus, Matt, Winslow, Amile, Jahlil smoked the squad of Quinn, Rasheed, Grayson, Semi, and MP3. And the thing is, the blue team did not look that bad. Jahlil is an absolute beast. He scored at will on post moves, mid-range bank shots, jumphooks, and foul line jumpers, all smooth as silk. Amile is clearly improved on both ends, and is adept at getting the ball into the basket in the paint. He is headed for a great year. Tyus is a floor general, great passer, solid 3 ball shooter when left open, and can take it to the basket finishing with floaters as well.

After a slow start, Rasheed really came on strong and looked like an ALL-ACC type player out there. Drives and finishes were better with less body contortion and more of seeking the contact to force the foul call and also finishing well. In the second half, Rasheed stayed on the blue team with Tyus, Amile, MP3, and Matt. They lost 30-26 but the blue team had the ball down 29-26 with 10 seconds to go and ran a play for Rasheed to take a 3 at the top of the key to tie it. He put up a really good shot that went in and then rattled out. So close. Winslow made 1 of 2 free thows after the ensuing foul to ice it. Rasheed hit several 3's during that half though, as well as a mid-range jumper and a couple of nifty drives.

I really thought all 4 freshman looked good. Grayson is a player though might end up not playing a lot due to the sheer numbers of quality players on the perimeter, however the kid can ball and has an awesome stroke.

The team just looked so much quicker than last year, their defense looked better (pressing full court all game). Winslow is the real deal and like Jahlil and Tyus will get plenty of PT. After tonight I have no doubt he will be Amile's back up at the 4 spot while also playing the 3 quite a bit. Matt looked really improved and hit several 3s. He is going to be hard to keep off the court.

I did not feel as positive about Semi though I really want this kid to put it together and be a contributor. Just not looking likely to happen this year.

If they can defend as well as they looked capable of doing tonight, they can be an outstanding team. Very quick, athletic, great point guard and perimeter players and a dominant center. The ceiling is high.


All in all a great night at Cameron and great start for this team. Lets watch them pay those 5 to 10 games and assess them at that time.

Looks very promising.

[subzero02]

The cup stacking girl was awesome. The player intros were pretty great. The Everything else was a bit lacking in energy. But it's hard to keep it loud and energetic for very long, especially for the blue and white game.

Thoughts on a few players:

Okafor -- Stood out from everyone else by a mile. He is an absolute stud. The real deal. Great footwork. Effortless moves inside. Powerful against Plumlee. But probably the most impressive part was his ability to take the 8-12 footer. They were gimmes for him. Straight on. At an angle using the glass. He put on a big man clinic all night. People all around us were just shaking their heads after every one of his baskets. Unbelievably exciting.

Sheed -- He worked hard all night. You could see his intensity. Made a bunch of amazingly tough shots, the kind you are used to seeing him make. Really nice one early over Okafor - that patented drive with a slide fade away at the end to make space. Couple nice threes. Tough on D. Chased down Okafor on a breakaway and made him miss the dunk. He could really be a huge spark for us this year. I think it's his time.

Amile -- Played his type of game. Good D. Couple nice drives and moves inside. Good rebounding position. He is absolutely our glue man. stats[B]He'll be better as a junior than Lance was as a senior. Love him as captain.stats An obvious choice and he showed it tonight.

Cook -- You can already see how interesting it will be to have him at the 2. Playing off the ball, he made some nice 3s. At point he did his thing, played under control. He did have a 5 second call against him -- can't recall who got that one on him. He and Tyus played opposite each other in first game and they really went at each other. That competition is gonna be great for the both of them.

Tyus -- Had some flashes of greatness. Couple jumpers. Nice floater in the lane. Several great assists. He'll be an asset right away but you can see he has plenty of room to grow. Excited about him as he gains a little experience against live college level competition.

Justise -- Played hard. His handle isn't very refined. But he still managed a couple of nice drives. Made a few jumpers. He was not afraid to put up shots tonight. I cannot imagine him as a one-year guy. He's here at least 2 years.

Matt -- He played fantastic defense. Didn't get as much of a chance to shine on the offensive end but made a few nice plays. At least one really nice drive if I recall correctly and jumper or two. He still seems to rush his shot a little but he looks like he's ready to take his game up a level this year.

Grayson -- The kid has game. His handle is surprisingly good. He made some nice shots. Couple of sweet assists. His athleticism is really amazing. He should have won the dunk contest based on his first dunk alone but tried some really tough ones in the final against MP3. It's gonna be hard for him to get a lot of PT this year but I love this kid across four years. He's going to be a contributor.

MP3 -- Played tough. You can see he is working on his inside game. Made some nice moves but he has no ability to finish. Missed all his attempts at the baby hook. The ball just comes off his hands like a anvil. But I like his energy and he'll be able to spell Okafor and play tough D. Will be interesting to see how he develops across the year playing against Okafor.

Semi -- I watched him hit like 9 out of 10 3's during warm ups. He can shoot the rock. And his shoulders look even bigger than before if that's even possible. Guess that's part of why he won the Iron Devil award again. I loved his defense. And he grabbed a couple of monster rebounds, one while holding off Okafor. With strong D and his 3pt potential, I won;t be surprised to see him getting a few minutes this year.

Overall, it was pretty exciting. Both teams pressed almost all game long. You can see they are working hard and are going to put a lot of defensive pressure on our opponents this year. We have the size and speed to really get after it. I think it's going to be fun watching them play D this year, especially with a deep bench and guys fighting for a little extra PT. And we're going to be so balanced on offense with Okafor and Amile inside. Super exciting to say the least.

If Amile is as good as Lance was at making switches and effectively guarding the man he switched to, then he might be our most important player not named Okafor. His offensive skills were better last year than Lance's were as a senior.

[devildeac]

Most of the preceding posts have captured all the important details better than I ever could.

Best player on the court, Okafor.

Best tandem on the court, Okafor and T. Jones.

The first half white team looked to me like our best team will be Okafor, T. Jones, Winslow, Jefferson and any of our other guards ( Sheed, Cook, M. Jones ).

I did not think Rasheed looked great in the first half, he was much more effective in the second.

I don't think we will platoon, I do think in spite of the drop off with Plumlee and Ojeleye, we could.

Quinn has not developed the chemistry with Okafor that T. Jones already has.

We have more than enough talent to run with anyone.
How Quinn and Rasheed ( and the overall team) chemistry meshes with Okafor, T. Jones, and Winslow will be a huge factor in how far this team goes.

And you forgot to mention, as we discussed during the player introductions, that we were both ecstatic that whoever it was that came out carrying a very large banana "costume" (Winslow?) did not wear the damned thing:o:p.

[Henderson]

Great reports. Thanks to those of you who took the time. I'm excited about the potential of this team.

[uh_no]

their defense looked better

Of all the things said on this thread, this is the one that I think is most essential.

we know we're going to be able to score. we could score last year...and the year before....and the year before that...

[Bob Green]

Tonight, I left Cameron Indoor absolutely giddy over what I had just witnessed...But wow...

Looks very promising.

GGLC, a DBR catchphrase from years past. The excitement is building for basketball season. This year's crop of freshmen could be extra special.

[MCFinARL]

Tonight, I left Cameron Indoor absolutely giddy over what I had just witnessed, and I over heard a couple of parents of current players and two dads of recruits that were there who were discussing after the game, down on the floor, how wowed they were at this team. If you put a gun to my head right now I would be forced to say this team is better right now than last year's team was. Again, its just the Blue/White, and I reserve the right to change my tune after seeing those 5 to 10 games. But wow.



Better right now than last year's team was at Countdown to Craziness? Or better right now than last year's team was ever? If the former, great, but not that big a deal, given how last season played out. If the latter, I too am giddy.

[Acymetric]

And you forgot to mention, as we discussed during the player introductions, that we were both ecstatic that whoever it was that came out carrying a very large banana "costume" (Winslow?) did not wear the damned thing:o:p.

Pretty sure it was just a giant stuffed bannana but I've been wrong before. Believe it was Matt Jones but previous caveat applies here as well.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Pretty sure it was just a giant stuffed bannana but I've been wrong before. Believe it was Matt Jones but previous caveat applies here as well.
It was Matt. Was trying to figure out if he lost a bet. Or was taking a shot at the holes for their banana costumes from a few years ago. Or was just being goofy.

[Furniture]

Oklafor is a beast. He can score when he wants to and with ease. He is NBA ready now. He will have better stats than Jabari!
I agree that Justin was very good and he will obviously get lots of minutes. He is a very complete player. Defense, lay ups and threes.
Quinn looked the same.
Agree about Semi but I imagine his role last night was defense and he played it.
Matt did look good. I don't think we saw him score as much for the whole of last season as last night. His catch and release was really quick.
The first half blue team crushed white. I felt terrible for white. That team did have Tysus and Oklafor playing together.....
A couple of other things.
The Student section wasn't full.
On the recruiting side I heard that Harry Giles was there but who was the smaller kid that K pulled next to him and had a long chat to in the second half? He looked like he was a point guard.
I think Oklafors Dad really enjoyed himself!!
During practice Ryan's brother was really knocking down the threes. Looks like it's in the family!

[Furniture]

Pretty sure it was just a giant stuffed bannana but I've been wrong before. Believe it was Matt Jones but previous caveat applies here as well.

It was a blowup Jamaican banana. With dreadlocks and hat. He gave it to the crazies.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Oklafor is a beast. He can score when he wants to and with ease. He is NBA ready now. He will have better stats than Jabari!
I agree that Justin was very good and he will obviously get lots of minutes. He is a very complete player. Defense, lay ups and threes.
Quinn looked the same.
Agree about Semi but I imagine his role last night was defense and he played it.
Matt did look good. I don't think we saw him score as much for the whole of last season as last night. His catch and release was really quick.
The first half blue team crushed white. I felt terrible for white. That team did have Tysus and Oklafor playing together.....
A couple of other things.
The Student section wasn't full.
On the recruiting side I heard that Harry Giles was there but who was the smaller kid that K pulled next to him and had a long chat to in the second half? He looked like he was a point guard.
I think Oklafors Dad really enjoyed himself!!
During practice Ryan's brother was really knocking down the threes. Looks like it's in the family!
White crushed blue in the first game 34-17. Okafor was unstoppable.

[Furniture]

White crushed blue in the first game 34-17. Okafor was unstoppable.

He was and he did it with such ease. I don't think he was even trying too hard!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

He was and he did it with such ease. I don't think he was even trying too hard!
Yep. When Plumlee laid off, Okafor hit the short jumper. When Plumlee bodied up, Okafor played right thru and around him. And it wasn't bad defense either. I think Okafor's only "bad" play was a spin to the baseline that was an obvious travel (and that the ref called). I think we'll see some of that kind of stuff from him but it's hard to be concerned about a guy with that kind of footwork. We haven't seen this sort of big man in a while. Loved Mason but this is big man play at entirely different level.

[Dukehky]

That banana that Matt gave to the Crazies was probably from the State Fair. What the hell is Matt Jones going to do with a Giant Banana? May as well be funny and give it away.

The hour and a half leading up to the game was the worst thing I've ever witnessed. I just hope to all that is good on this earth that they didn't make the recruits sit out there and watch. I don't think they had to watch the pre game games and skits and dances for very long. It was really awkward to see Jenna and Kalia try and get the crowd jazzed up for women's hoops. Which is sad, but pick your battles, don't stand out there forever making it look worse. I think I have a history on this board of being very into women's basketball and posting regularly on it, so don't take that the wrong way, but that didn't help much.

I thought Tyus impressed me the most. In the first half you didn't even notice he had the ball, but upon further examination, he just effortlessly got the ball into the right positions. Like he would go to the wing, throw a mid-entry pass to Amile at the high post who would then throw a good entry to Jah. That kind of action is going to predominately start with Tyus. He was just so smooth. As a great point guard, you couldn't notice all the really good things he was doing. He handled the pressure by SHeed most of the game, and he got a 5 second call on Quinn, who is no slouch of a guard.

Enough has been said of Okafor, he very well could have one of the most dominant seasons a Duke player has ever had. Marshall may not be the greatest post defender in the world, but he is 7 foot and athletic and Okafor toyed with him most of the night. Foul trouble is his only real enemy because his court vision looked really strong last night as well. As long as the rest of the team doesn't stop and watch, Oak will either get a good shot, score, get fouled, or make the RIGHT pass. He needs to go after defensive rebounds with more gusto, but I think that will come, especially if some 6'8 scrub from southwest miami state out rebounds him one night. He is a competitive guy.

Everyone else looked solid, I think it is going to be Rasheed's lot to be like Jamal Crawford and come off the bench with the sole purpose of scoring, with the added bonus of being able to play defense.

Should be a fun season, can't wait for MSU

[mpj96]

This c2c was not in the same league as 2011, but it was good. The freshmen bring a step change in talent and they seem to play better team ball with Tyus at the helm than last year which seemed to rely on a lot of individual plays. The white team with Amile, Jah, Justise, matt & Tyus had that ability to go on explosive scoring bursts (including defense to offense) that can quickly demoralize a lesser team. They doubled up the blue team hanging 34 on them to the blue's 17.

Justise Winslow looked better than I expected. He is a big kid with a lot of upside. Wasn't trying to force things. Played good d.

Jah looked pretty good. He is not Tim Duncan, but he is good. Out jumped Marshall for tip off. Showed some range, but It remains to be seen whether that is something he can do consistently. Tyus reminded me a little of Syracuse's pg last year. Smooth, finding the open man with few mistakes and capable of punishing you by scoring if you ease off. Height wise very similar to Cook so we may struggle against tall guards but they will have their hands full with him too.

If we could keep this class for a couple of years they could be something really special, but that's not going to happen. We might keep Tyus and Justise, but Jah will be gone for sure.

Grayson was a pleasure to watch. He will infuriate Duke haters. Very confident, persistent and better, much better, than he looks.

Amile looked very confident -- the team leader -- and had some great sneaky plays. Rasheed got hot in the second game, channeling Nolan Smith and scoring 16. One of his buckets was a spin-around 3. Quin looked good too hitting from outside. When Tyus didn't move to cover Quin in the 2nd match that left Matt trying to pick between covering Quin or Grayson behind the 3. Didn't feel bad for matt much last night, but did then. We'll be deep this year.

[devildeac]

It was Matt. Was trying to figure out if he lost a bet. Or was taking a shot at the holes for their banana costumes from a few years ago. Or was just being goofy.

At least K didn't get out there with a wand and try to dance either:rolleyes:;).

[devildeac]

Yep. When Plumlee laid off, Okafor hit the short jumper. When Plumlee bodied up, Okafor played right thru and around him. And it wasn't bad defense either. I think Okafor's only "bad" play was a spin to the baseline that was an obvious travel (and that the ref called). I think we'll see some of that kind of stuff from him but it's hard to be concerned about a guy with that kind of footwork. We haven't seen this sort of big man in a while. Loved Mason but this is big man play at entirely different level.


The other thing that will be very interesting to observe will be the double teams I'd bet he sees frequently and whether he can make his move/s and score before the 2nd defender arrives or if can quickly pass out of it to a cutter or a wide open shooter for a 3.

[uh_no]

The hour and a half leading up to the game was the worst thing I've ever witnessed. I just hope to all that is good on this earth that they didn't make the recruits sit out there and watch. I don't think they had to watch the pre game games and skits and dances for very long. It was really awkward to see Jenna and Kalia try and get the crowd jazzed up for women's hoops. Which is sad, but pick your battles, don't stand out there forever making it look worse. I think I have a history on this board of being very into women's basketball and posting regularly on it, so don't take that the wrong way, but that didn't help much.

that's kind of depressing....can you give a rundown on the kind of things they did?

and on women's hoops, what went so wrong last night?

Either way, i never thing going out and trying to rally support is a great thing to do...at least do something! I know at uconn they have a scrimmage with players from both teams, which is kinda fun, since they get to play together, and one team is coached by geno, and the other by ollie. I highly doubt that K would go for something like that, and it wouldn't work here where the women's team isn't nearly as popular...but the point is, how can you get the team involved? a game of knockout? a skills competition? a 3v3 match against a team of students? I'd get excited to watch that stuff...much less so someone going "sports...YEAH"

[6th Man]

that's kind of depressing....can you give a rundown on the kind of things they did?

and on women's hoops, what went so wrong last night?

Either way, i never thing going out and trying to rally support is a great thing to do...at least do something! I know at uconn they have a scrimmage with players from both teams, which is kinda fun, since they get to play together, and one team is coached by geno, and the other by ollie. I highly doubt that K would go for something like that, and it wouldn't work here where the women's team isn't nearly as popular...but the point is, how can you get the team involved? a game of knockout? a skills competition? a 3v3 match against a team of students? I'd get excited to watch that stuff...much less so someone going "sports...YEAH"

I've made it to every C2C since they started and the entertainment leading up to the player intros and game are definitely on the downhill slide. I realize the only reason we go is to see the team scrimmage, but it is such a LONG wait before the team comes out. The first few C2C's I found to be pretty entertaining. Lots of cool videos mixed in with the entertainment. This year we had to watch cup flipping on a table, arranging potato chip bags into bowls, and putting t-shirts on with various moon phases in the correct order. The entertainment was good enough in years past to sit through the entire event, but this year made me want to either not go next year or show up an hour and a half later. Pretty disappointing production this year leading up to the intros and game.

Obviously Okafor was dominant, but I came away really impressed with Tyus Jones. Tyus really knows how to control the flow of the game and he made some amazing passes that set up some easy baskets. Of all the great PG's we've had, his style reminds me more of Hurley's than anyone else. He's not explosive like Irving and J-Will, but seems to be in absolute command from the PG position. Tyus switched teams at the half and it was a close game. Okafor was the dominant force, but Jones made things easier for the other side to make a better second half match. I think having a great PG and big man are key to tournament runs and we definitely have it this year. If Sheed can play the season the way he played in the second half last night, it should be a GREAT year.

[OldPhiKap]

Blue Devil Network has highlights up. In the bits they showed:

1. Sheed was very aggressive, really good to see.

2. Jalil not only has game at the rim, he had a nice 10-15 foot shot it seemed. If true, he will be awfully hard to stop. Hope he can pass out of the double.

[Gthoma2a]

Better right now than last year's team was at Countdown to Craziness? Or better right now than last year's team was ever? If the former, great, but not that big a deal, given how last season played out. If the latter, I too am giddy.

Seemed better than last year's team, period. We have more to offer, a post presence, and we have more toughness than we had last year. This team doesn't look like it will fall apart/lose focus as easily. That, and we have several players who can really defend. Amile, Jahlil, Justise, Matt and Rasheed can all defend at a high level (Jahlil has both the reach to block shots and quick enough feet to get positioning). Tyus and Marshall are good defenders. Quinn will still be the guy who will go into the stands for a deflection, taking himself out of the play, overplaying, but with these guys around him, that is more acceptable than last year. Grayson seems like he is an okay defender who will be able to do little things to get under an opponent's skin. Semi is a work in progress (we knew that; he did attack the basket last night on offense, though, so he is much better).

Really, last year, we were a soft team that usually needed a big enough lead to make up for the 10 minutes of a game where we just didn't play well or smart. We watched a lot of teams play offense without anyone going out of their way to impede them. This team seems more engaged, and into the game. The freshmen we have this year have a huge chemistry improvement over last year, and they change the personality of the team. They seem to have a lot of fight (Justise throwing Quinn into the stands to prevent a layup, and Okafor ripping the ball away with one hand from Matt Jones on a defensive rebound). I will be honest and say that I never liked the personality of last year's team (not any one player, but the way we all seemed to react to things). The team just seemed to be lacking grit. Can't say that this year. Justise cramped up and got a rebound to seal the second game on the very next play.

[Gthoma2a]

A lie Devil Netwoek has highlights up. In the bits they showed:

1. Sheed was very aggressive, really good to see.

2. Jalil not only has game at the rim, he had a nice 10-15 foot shot it seemed. If true, he will be awfully hard to stop. Hope he can pass out of the double.

On point number one, he needs to learn to channel it. He didn't get in trouble last night (I hope it means he has changed something that I can't see), but he still drives a little too far at times and goes into the air without a plan. Pulling up a little shorter would bring his contribution/rating up significantly. For now, he still worries me that we will see Jekyll and Hyde. A talented player making bad decisions half of the time.

[uh_no]

I've made it to every C2C since they started and the entertainment leading up to the player intros and game are definitely on the downhill slide. I realize the only reason we go is to see the team scrimmage, but it is such a LONG wait before the team comes out. The first few C2C's I found to be pretty entertaining. Lots of cool videos mixed in with the entertainment. This year we had to watch cup flipping on a table, arranging potato chip bags into bowls, and putting t-shirts on with various moon phases in the correct order. The entertainment was good enough in years past to sit through the entire event, but this year made me want to either not go next year or show up an hour and a half later. Pretty disappointing production this year leading up to the intros and game.


Express that to the athletics department. obviously the whole event has been commercialized since when it used to just be the game, but if we're going down a path where people don't actually want to come sit through it, that's good feedback.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

that's kind of depressing....can you give a rundown on the kind of things they did?

and on women's hoops, what went so wrong last night?

Either way, i never thing going out and trying to rally support is a great thing to do...at least do something! I know at uconn they have a scrimmage with players from both teams, which is kinda fun, since they get to play together, and one team is coached by geno, and the other by ollie. I highly doubt that K would go for something like that, and it wouldn't work here where the women's team isn't nearly as popular...but the point is, how can you get the team involved? a game of knockout? a skills competition? a 3v3 match against a team of students? I'd get excited to watch that stuff...much less so someone going "sports...YEAH"
It was dumb commercially sponsored competition after dumb commercially sponsored competition. Sort these shirts with phases of the moon and put them on in correct order. Sort these potato chip bags by type. Human horseback and wheelbarrow races. It was painful. They did get the women's team involved in a few shooting related contests with students. But even those were sort of lame. There was an excess of dancing routines. They should have gotten all the routines together as one mash up of dancing and cool music. They should have done more hoops related contests instead of the lame efforts where everyone just stared waiting for the next awful thing. The women's intros were kinda lame too. The crowd was just not into it. It would have been cooler to see the women do a short scrimmage to show their skills. Instead, the just stood out there telling everyone how tall, fast and strong they were and almost begging people to come see them play... That they will put on a good show. They could have put more effort into a skit or something to get the crowd into it. When they finally got down to business wth the light show and intros for the men, it was cool and the crowd was into it. But almost everything else felt like an afterthought... Time fillers... Even the dunk contest was kinda lame. No energy. Very quick. Sort of "check the box, we did it." I will say that the piece with the little girl with sickle cell was well done and got the crowd behind it big time. +1 for that.

[uh_no]

It was dumb commercially sponsored competition after dumb commercially sponsored competition. Sort these shirts with phases of the moon and put them on in correct order. Sort these potato chip bags by type. Human horseback and wheelbarrow races. It was painful. They did get the women's team involved in a few shooting related contests with students. But even those were sort of lame. There was an excess of dancing routines. They should have gotten all the routines together as one mash up of dancing and cool music. They should have done more hoops related contests instead of the lame efforts where everyone just stared waiting for the next awful thing. The women's intros were kinda lame too. The crowd was just not into it. It would have been cooler to see the women do a short scrimmage to show their skills. Instead, the just stood out there telling everyone how tall, fast and strong they were and almost begging people to come see them play... That they will put on a good show. They could have put more effort into a skit or something to get the crowd into it. When they finally got down to business wth the light show and intros for the men, it was cool and the crowd was into it. But almost everything else felt like an afterthought... Time fillers... Even the dunk contest was kinda lame. No energy. Very quick. Sort of "check the box, we did it." I will say that the piece with the little girl with sickle cell was well done and got the crowd behind it big time. +1 for that.

that sounds terrible.

[Acymetric]

It was dumb commercially sponsored competition after dumb commercially sponsored competition. Sort these shirts with phases of the moon and put them on in correct order. Sort these potato chip bags by type. Human horseback and wheelbarrow races. It was painful. They did get the women's team involved in a few shooting related contests with students. But even those were sort of lame. There was an excess of dancing routines. They should have gotten all the routines together as one mash up of dancing and cool music. They should have done more hoops related contests instead of the lame efforts where everyone just stared waiting for the next awful thing. The women's intros were kinda lame too. The crowd was just not into it. It would have been cooler to see the women do a short scrimmage to show their skills. Instead, the just stood out there telling everyone how tall, fast and strong they were and almost begging people to come see them play... That they will put on a good show. They could have put more effort into a skit or something to get the crowd into it. When they finally got down to business wth the light show and intros for the men, it was cool and the crowd was into it. But almost everything else felt like an afterthought... Time fillers... Even the dunk contest was kinda lame. No energy. Very quick. Sort of "check the box, we did it." I will say that the piece with the little girl with sickle cell was well done and got the crowd behind it big time. +1 for that.

The women's team does that every year, I thought it was fine. All the pregame "festivities" were pretty much the same as they've been for years now as well, with a few additions. I don't care for most of them, but it was no different than previous years. The real loss was that in the past there have been some really good videos, both interviews and comedy skits involving basketball players and students, this year the videos weren't all that good. Think it is great to give various student groups an opportunity to be seen, but there should probably be a little more actual entertainment, especially if you're going to stop admitting people almost an hour before the scrimmage starts (although they did appear to be a little lenient with that rule).

Overall the pregame stuff does kind of drag on (although I did enjoy a few things, including the Indian dance group which I thought was pretty fun to watch) but still a ton of fun to see the players having fun with intros and seeing Okafor was worth the price of admission.

[Bob Green]

It was dumb commercially sponsored competition after dumb commercially sponsored competition.

It sounds like typical between innings activities at a AAA baseball game.

[Kedsy]

In past years, incoming transfers have played in this game, right? Has anybody heard why Sean Obi didn't play at all?

[Newton_14]

The women's team does that every year, I thought it was fine. All the pregame "festivities" were pretty much the same as they've been for years now as well, with a few additions. I don't care for most of them, but it was no different than previous years. The real loss was that in the past there have been some really good videos, both interviews and comedy skits involving basketball players and students, this year the videos weren't all that good. Think it is great to give various student groups an opportunity to be seen, but there should probably be a little more actual entertainment, especially if you're going to stop admitting people almost an hour before the scrimmage starts (although they did appear to be a little lenient with that rule).
.
Wow. I had no idea that was the plan last night. I went late on purpose because all I wanted to see was the player intro's and the Blue/White game, so I got there about 7:30ish. I would have been spittin irate and mad had they refused to let me in.


In past years, incoming transfers have played in this game, right? Has anybody heard why Sean Obi didn't play at all?
Obi did go through warm ups and did not look injured or anything, and I have not seen an explanation. I took it as K wanting to see all 10 scholarship kids that are eligible to play, as much as possible. The only disappointing part was not getting to see Quinn and Tyus on the same team to see how they looked together. Plus that would have put them up against a big backcourt of Rasheed and Matt and we could have gauged their defense as backcourt mates.

All in all, a very good night like I said in my first post. Lots of potential with this group.

[uh_no]

Wow. I had no idea that was the plan last night. I went late on purpose because all I wanted to see was the player intro's and the Blue/White game, so I got there about 7:30ish. I would have been spittin irate and mad had they refused to let me in.


Obi did go through warm ups and did not look injured or anything, and I have not seen an explanation. I took it as K wanting to see all 10 scholarship kids that are eligible to play, as much as possible. The only disappointing part was not getting to see Quinn and Tyus on the same team to see how they looked together. Plus that would have put them up against a big backcourt of Rasheed and Matt and we could have gauged their defense as backcourt mates.

All in all, a very good night like I said in my first post. Lots of potential with this group.

because the blue/white game has so much predictive power:

I wonder if this is an indivation that K doesn't intend to use them much together....using quinn mainly as the second PG

[jimsumner]

Not sure why Obi didn't play. Last Tuesday, Duke had a practice open to the media. Obi ran through all the drills but didn't play during any of the three 10-minute scrimmages I watched; I had to leave before the fourth.

I can't comment on the pre-game stuff. A serious generation gap here. That's the most positive spin I can put on it. I find most of it cringe-inducing.

One thing we haven't seen is Cook and T. Jones playing together. That will have to wait for the season. But the second half last night was the first of five scrimmages I've seen in which Cook's team beat Ty's team. T. Jones is one of these guys you don't notice a lot during the game. But his team sure seems to win a lot.

Okafor obviously is very good, very advanced. He has a pretty nuanced understanding of angles and proper use of the backboard. He doesn't just try to dunk everything. He actually has a low-post game. And I just don't share this fear that he's going to be in foul trouble all the time. He's shown me an ability to play impactful defense without fouling.

Plumlee was much better Tuesday than last night. He was making some of those short jump-hooks Tuesday. Okafor did a better job last night of not letting Plumlee get the ball low on the blocks. Plumlee makes Okafor work for everything and I have to think that's going to make Okafor a better player.

Both of the sophomores are much improved. Both seem to have lost the deer-in-the-headlights-look they had last year. I see Ojeleye getting minutes off the bench at the 4 and Jones being a rotation player, maybe even a starter.

Not so sure about Allen. His time will come but the competition for PT is pretty fierce at the 2-3 this year. Only so many minutes to parcel out. Fans should keep in mind that Allen is not a JJ-esque three-point shooter. He'll score in transition and off the dribble. And he does have a competitive streak.

Sulaimon was okay up until the final 12-minute segment, when he absolutely took over. FWIW, K told us Tuesday that Sulaimon was Duke's best on-the-ball-defender, while Jefferson was the team's best defensive communicator.

Speaking of Jefferson, he seems to be reining in his energizer-bunny tendencies and making more efficient use of his energy. I haven't seen any signs of expanded shooting range but if he plays off Okafor effectively and crashes the offensive boards, he's going to contribute offensively.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

I noticed that Okafor was bullying people around in the post...not in a teammate way, but in a "You're nowhere near my level, get off of me" kind of way. He had a little spat with Jones and he shoved him off of him, though not hard. That kind of attitude might be affective against other teams, but I hope it doesn't translate over to bad team chemistry. I do agree that he was playing effortlessly, like he was coming down from the NBA as opposed to coming up from High School. And I also noticed, aside from Sheed, nobody was playing with intensity or alertness (there's a better word for that, but it's slipped my mind). They all seemed sluggish and unhappy to be there. That could just be because it's basically just a watered down practice they're putting on for the fans. Who knows.

The intros were the most exciting parts for me

[jimsumner]

I noticed that Okafor was bullying people around in the post...not in a teammate way, but in a "You're nowhere near my level, get off of me" kind of way. He had a little spat with Jones and he shoved him off of him, though not hard. That kind of attitude might be affective against other teams, but I hope it doesn't translate over to bad team chemistry. I do agree that he was playing effortlessly, like he was coming down from the NBA as opposed to coming up from High School. And I also noticed, aside from Sheed, nobody was playing with intensity or alertness (there's a better word for that, but it's slipped my mind). They all seemed sluggish and unhappy to be there. That could just be because it's basically just a watered down practice they're putting on for the fans. Who knows.

The intros were the most exciting parts for me

Intensity level seemed pretty good to me. I sure didn't sense that anyone didn't want to be there.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Intensity level seemed pretty good to me. I sure didn't sense that anyone didn't want to be there.

Huh :shrug: guess we it differently, then. It seemed to me, besides Sheed and maybe Tyus like I said, they were lackadaisical.

[Furniture]

Intensity level seemed pretty good to me. I sure didn't sense that anyone didn't want to be there.

Agreed. The intensity level was good.
I arrived at 7.45 to shouts of "we are closing up". Then once inside there were more threats of closing the entrance to the seating area. I had to decide between possibly missing the start or going for a P. I was really needing to go so I took the risk. We then ran to our seats and imagine how relieved we were to be in time for the end of some t shirt comp and then some bag of chips game......huh?
I thought the ladies team intro was nice. They look really big. A couple of girls spoke. It all seemed very appropriate to me. Why not....

[Newton_14]

Huh :shrug: guess we it differently, then. It seemed to me, besides Sheed and maybe Tyus like I said, they were lackadaisical.

Have to agree with Jim on this one. I thought both games were intense. Don't sweat the Okafor shove of Jones either. That happens all the times in scrimmages within teams, including those with great team chemistry which I believe this team will have. Ball players are competitive to the core and want to win every game, scrimmage, ping pong match, checkers, video games, you name it. Just how it is. Michael Jordan once punched Steve Kerr in the face in a Bulls practice and those two guys had great chemistry on the court.

We saw several instances of fierce (you're not making that play or winning) last night. Rasheed chasing Okafor down and blocking the dunk from behind rather than giving up the easy basket. Winslow hammering Quinn on a layup attempt, Rasheed got hammered on a layup attempt, etc. In almost each case the guy dishing out the punishment was the first guy helping their teammate up.

I may have said this earlier so apologies if repetitive but down on the floor after the game, several players parents and recruits parents were raving about the team and two different dads commented how it was obvious to them this team has much better chemistry than last years team.

I personally feel there were many many positives last night and very few negatives. I did not think Semi looked good, but Jim has seen him in 5 scrimmages and I have only seen him in the one, so I trust Jim when he says Semi is much improved. Matt for sure is much improved.

But to your main point, I felt like the guys were very intense and not playing lackadaisical. That's one of the things I love about Duke and I commented to someone beside me at one point about how nice it was our guys were approaching the scrimmage like a real game vs say unc-cheat who uses their blue/white game as a run up an down showboat dunkfest and 3 point chuckfest, which is not appealing to me at all. If Duke did that I would not bother going to CTC.

[Gthoma2a]

I noticed that Okafor was bullying people around in the post...not in a teammate way, but in a "You're nowhere near my level, get off of me" kind of way. He had a little spat with Jones and he shoved him off of him, though not hard. That kind of attitude might be affective against other teams, but I hope it doesn't translate over to bad team chemistry. I do agree that he was playing effortlessly, like he was coming down from the NBA as opposed to coming up from High School. And I also noticed, aside from Sheed, nobody was playing with intensity or alertness (there's a better word for that, but it's slipped my mind). They all seemed sluggish and unhappy to be there. That could just be because it's basically just a watered down practice they're putting on for the fans. Who knows.

The intros were the most exciting parts for me

Wow. I saw the shove, but it looked like Okafor was just sort of reminding Jones it is just an exhibition with the move. I don't think it will lead to any long-term problems. There was definitely intensity. I don't see how you saw anyone not wanting to be there. There were some hotly contested layups and we saw more than one guy go into the stands to save a ball. I, personally, saw fire within the players that wasn't there last year. I mean, I have not seen a five-second call forced in an exhibition until last night Okafor played effortlessly, but only in the sense that the game is so easy for him. He is a guy with the best post moves of a player his age in a generation and he has a 15 foot jump shot to go with it. He has the maturity and nothing is stopping him. If they didn't want to be there, I doubt Justise stays in with the cramps. I don't think Semi would have been too tired to dunk at the end, if he didn't want to be there, and the rest of the guys played hard, as well. I just don't see how we saw things that differently last night. I would be interested to know if anyone else saw it that way. In my opinion, it was the best defense I have seen since we had Mason and Ryan.

On a different note, did anyone see the recruits/notice any reactions from them and their families? I know it probably isn't the best indication, but it is always interesting to hear.

[jimsumner]

Let me address the intensity issue from another angle. We were told that the players viewed this as a "watered down practice." I mentioned upthread that I had a chance to watch Duke practice Tuesday. Duke went hard on every drill and went after each other in the scrimmages as if their jobs depended on it.

Which they did. Sure the doldrums can set in in mid-season, especially when the wear and tear adds up and folks start coming down with colds. But in the pre-season? Duke takes practices seriously, very seriously indeed. I've never seen a lackadaisical Duke practice. So, if the players last night approached the B/W games as another practice, that means they were intense. That's the standard.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Let me address the intensity issue from another angle. We were told that the players viewed this as a "watered down practice." I mentioned upthread that I had a chance to watch Duke practice Tuesday. Duke went hard on every drill and went after each other in the scrimmages as if their jobs depended on it.

Which they did. Sure the doldrums can set in in mid-season, especially when the wear and tear adds up and folks start coming down with colds. But in the pre-season? Duke takes practices seriously, very seriously indeed. I've never seen a lackadaisical Duke practice. So, if the players last night approached the B/W games as another practice, that means they were intense. That's the standard.

I guess I'm in the very small minority here, then :P

Maybe the way I transcribed it was a little too strongly. It just seemed...I don't know...not as organized as an actual game. Of course it's not an actual game, but there were more than a few instances (Grayson stands out in my mind) where a player would just take a few dribbles to one side or the other, and chuck up a shot, instead of actual running an offense. I also didn't see much defense from anyone besides Plumlees far and few attempts, and a little from Tyus as well. I decided that the main focus of the BW scrimmage isn't to showcase defensive strategy, but still. But like I said, maybe I saw a completely different game than you guys did. The instances some of you pointed out (Sheed blocking Jahlil, players in the stands) were very scarce compared to most actual games IMO.

[subzero02]

I noticed that Okafor was bullying people around in the post...not in a teammate way, but in a "You're nowhere near my level, get off of me" kind of way. He had a little spat with Jones and he shoved him off of him, though not hard. That kind of attitude might be affective against other teams, but I hope it doesn't translate over to bad team chemistry. I do agree that he was playing effortlessly, like he was coming down from the NBA as opposed to coming up from High School.

For the sake of clarity over the next two years(hopefully), it's best if we refer to them as Tyus and Matt... Or T. Jones and M. Jones. Who did Okafor shove?

[OldPhiKap]

Let me address the intensity issue from another angle. We were told that the players viewed this as a "watered down practice." I mentioned upthread that I had a chance to watch Duke practice Tuesday. Duke went hard on every drill and went after each other in the scrimmages as if their jobs depended on it.

Which they did. Sure the doldrums can set in in mid-season, especially when the wear and tear adds up and folks start coming down with colds. But in the pre-season? Duke takes practices seriously, very seriously indeed. I've never seen a lackadaisical Duke practice. So, if the players last night approached the B/W games as another practice, that means they were intense. That's the standard.

If there is one consistent Characteristic of Mike Krzyzewski's Duke teams, it is a dedication to effort. Of all the things I have to worry about, this ain't one.

Keeping your man in front of you, boxing out, and getting the rebounds -- that's what I hope to see.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

For the sake of clarity over the next two years(hopefully), it's best if we refer to them as Tyus and Matt... Or T. Jones and M. Jones. Who did Okafor shove?

Matt :p... I've come to where I'm calling Matt "Jones" and Tyus by his first name.

[Bob Green]

Matt :p... I've come to where I'm calling Matt "Jones" and Tyus by his first name.

How convenient for you, unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the rest of the World can't read your mind.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

How convenient for you, unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the rest of the World can't read your mind.

I send my apologies your way :)

[Bob Green]

I send my apologies your way :)

No apologies needed, just tell us which Jones you are talking about. :cool:

[conmanlhughes]

Okafor has a tendency to express displeasure physically. I remember from the McDonalds All-American Game when Jahlil was not getting his way with Myles Turner, he started shoving him and pouting somewhat. It worries me to see this reappear.

[Henderson]

Okafor has a tendency to express displeasure physically. I remember from the McDonalds All-American Game when Jahlil was not getting his way with Myles Turner, he started shoving him and pouting somewhat. It worries me to see this reappear.

I don't know about the pouting part or what you saw, but I'm just fine with some alpha-dog attitude from our big guy.

[Ultrarunner]

Matt :p... I've come to where I'm calling Matt "Jones" and Tyus by his first name.


How convenient for you, unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the rest of the World can't read your mind.


I send my apologies your way :)


No apologies needed, just tell us which Jones you are talking about. :cool:

Oh good, an agreement has been reached. I was having a mite bit of trouble keeping up, so to speak. :rolleyes:

[devildeac]

For the sake of clarity over the next two years(hopefully), it's best if we refer to them as Tyus and Matt... Or T. Jones and M. Jones. Who did Okafor shove?

I see you are not the only one having trouble keeping up with the Joneses:o.

[Newton_14]

I don't know about the pouting part or what you saw, but I'm just fine with some alpha-dog attitude from our big guy.
There was no pouting in the shove last night. It was Alpha-Dog flicking little-dog out of his space. Like you opine, that's a good thing. Sending a message. If the big fella has no problem sending a message like that to a teammate, the enemy should be ware. :)

This is one of those mountain out of a molehill deals to be honest. It wasn't that big of a deal. Big guy has rebound fully secure, little guy refuses to let the play be over, big guy pushes little guy off of him. End of story.

[OldPhiKap]

There was no pouting in the shove last night. It was Alpha-Dog flicking little-dog out of his space. Like you opine, that's a good thing. Sending a message. If the big fella has no problem sending a message like that to a teammate, the enemy should be ware. :)

This is one of those mountain out of a molehill deals to be honest. It wasn't that big of a deal. Big guy has rebound fully secure, little guy refuses to let the play be over, big guy pushes little guy off of him. End of story.

I remember Jay Bilas telling a story about when he was a freshman, and in practice someone kept getting by him. K blew the whistle and got in his face, saying that better not happen again. Next play, the guy got by Bilas so he just flat out tackled the guy and hauled him down. K ran over, bumped up to him and yelled "now, THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!"

If Big Dog is woofing, K will be pleased.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

There was no pouting in the shove last night. It was Alpha-Dog flicking little-dog out of his space. Like you opine, that's a good thing. Sending a message. If the big fella has no problem sending a message like that to a teammate, the enemy should be ware. :)

This is one of those mountain out of a molehill deals to be honest. It wasn't that big of a deal. Big guy has rebound fully secure, little guy refuses to let the play be over, big guy pushes little guy off of him. End of story.

Never meant to make it a huge deal in the first place. Was just an observation I've made. Being a Duke fan has deprived me of that kind of attitude from a big fella :p caught me off guard

[Furniture]

Never meant to make it a huge deal in the first place. Was just an observation I've made. Being a Duke fan has deprived me of that kind of attitude from a big fella :p caught me off guard

I saw it too. To be honest I thought it was a bit over the top. But if I refect personally I have been playing pickup soccer for the last several years or so with some really good friends. From time to time some of us get upset and go a little over the top even storming off the field and promising to never to play again. Next game we are back again shaking hands and hugging before the game as if it had never happened....

[UrinalCake]

I've been defending Quinn like crazy all summer, feeling like he's still the starting point guard until I see otherwise, and pulling for him to regain his form and split minutes at point with Jones. But after attending C2C, I've completely jumped ship into the camp that believes Jones will start from day 1. Quinn is still an excellent shooter, and he can bring the ball down the court against the press. But he doesn't create anything for his teammates. As far as pure point guard skills in the half court, Rasheed and even Matt Jones are not really that far behind him, and they also provide so much more. On the other side of the ball, he didn't even defend the other team's point guard. That fell to Rasheed in the first "half" and Matt Jones in the second half. So I've pretty much resigned myself to Quinn being an off-guard, one in the mix of several.

Matt Jones looked great to me. Winslow has a really nice stroke. Amile was talking constantly, as I've heard is true of him. And as others have said, Okafor was pretty much unstoppable. Only one or two of his baskets came on dunks, the rest were on short jumpers, layups that he created for himself, and at least one offensive putback that appeared effortless. He even had a bank shot that was Duncan-esque. Can't wait to watch him this year.

As for the pregame stuff, I mean it just went on for way too long. A few performances and games involving the fans would be fine, but not a whole hour. I love female acapella groups as much as the next heterosexual male, but we don't need three Brittney Spears covers. Just one would be fine. I saw the recruits come in just as the steppers were starting, and by the time the Diwali dancers came on (which I really enjoyed) I honestly felt like I wouldn't blame these kids if they decided to go elsewhere. With that said, I don't think C2C will be the determining factor in their choice.

[ACCBBallFan]

I've been defending Quinn like crazy all summer, feeling like he's still the starting point guard until I see otherwise, and pulling for him to regain his form and split minutes at point with Jones. But after attending C2C, I've completely jumped ship into the camp that believes Jones will start from day 1. Quinn is still an excellent shooter, and he can bring the ball down the court against the press. But he doesn't create anything for his teammates. As far as pure point guard skills in the half court, Rasheed and even Matt Jones are not really that far behind him, and they also provide so much more. On the other side of the ball, he didn't even defend the other team's point guard. That fell to Rasheed in the first "half" and Matt Jones in the second half. So I've pretty much resigned myself to Quinn being an off-guard, one in the mix of several.

Matt Jones looked great to me. Winslow has a really nice stroke. Amile was talking constantly, as I've heard is true of him. And as others have said, Okafor was pretty much unstoppable. Only one or two of his baskets came on dunks, the rest were on short jumpers, layups that he created for himself, and at least one offensive putback that appeared effortless. He even had a bank shot that was Duncan-esque. Can't wait to watch him this year.
I think the prior posts had made all the right points except this one that Sheed was guarding Tyus in game one.

Coach K made the point in a prior interview that Matt can be effective without neeeding the ball, whereas Tyus, Oak and Sheed all need the ball a lot to be effective.

Based on C2C, it's clear that Oak-Amile-Justise log most of the minutes at the forward positions with a lot of separation, but that competition is fierce at the two combo slots with very little separation, not even counting Grayson Allen who will be a good 4-year player.

I can see alternating two formations:

Oak-Amile-Justise - Matt and Tyus

Oak - Amile - Justise - Sheed - Quinn

The reason for teaming this way are:

Tyus - Sheed - Oak all need the ball and there is only 1.

Tyus - Quinn is awfully short set of combos and the two worst defenders of the 4.

Ergo Tyus with Matt one one platton and Sheed- Quinn on the other.

The only rest other than due to foul trouble the three bigs would get is if coach K went to 5 man subbing that was sometimes effective last year, once or twice a half with MP3-Semi-Grayson.

For that second 5, MP3 bangs on oppsong center to soften him up for Okafor's return. Surround MP3 with 4 shooters Semi - Grayson - Quinn and Matt.

When they are subbed out, rested best 5 return Okafor-Jefferson-Winslow-Sulaimon- T Jones, but get back onto two primary formations at various every 4 minute TV timeouts to avoid lineup with too many guys wanting the ball.

Either Okafor - T Jones w/o Sheed or Oak-Sheed w/o T Jones is fine since Justise, Matt and Amile do not need the ball in their hands to perform their roles.

Okafor, Amile and Justine 30 MPG ea, total 90

T Jones/M Jones and Sheed/Quinn 20 min ea, total 170

MP3, Semi, Grayson Allen 10 MPG ea, total 200.

Too much emphasis is placed on who starts, so just as often start Sheed/Quinn due to their experience and let Tyus/Matt get acclimated on bench at start, perhaps in tough road games early in season, based on opponent rather than alternating every other game.

Same point coach K made a few years back with Scheyer that team has 6 starters, this one has 7. Other than UK, not many teams with the depth to have Sheed and Quinn coming in off the bench (or Tyus/Matt).

[Kedsy]

Okafor, Amile and Justine 30 MPG ea, total 90

T Jones/M Jones and Sheed/Quinn 20 min ea, total 170

MP3, Semi, Grayson Allen 10 MPG ea, total 200.

At the risk of raising the collective DBR ire by discussing minute distribution:

(a) It's been said before, but freshman big men at Duke rarely top 25 mpg. I'll be surprised if Jahlil gets up to 30 mpg.

(b) Tyus and Rasheed (and probably Quinn, too) are more likely to log 27 to 32 mpg, rather than 20.

(c) If our 10th man (or even our 9th man) gets anywhere close to 10 mpg, especially once ACC season rolls around, I will be shocked speechless.

[subzero02]

I think Jahlil falling short of the 30 mpg plateau will be a function of K playing our bench extensively in blowouts.

[Bluegrassdevil1]

At the risk of raising the collective DBR ire by discussing minute distribution:

(a) It's been said before, but freshman big men at Duke rarely top 25 mpg. I'll be surprised if Jahlil gets up to 30 mpg.

(b) Tyus and Rasheed (and probably Quinn, too) are more likely to log 27 to 32 mpg, rather than 20.

(c) If our 10th man (or even our 9th man) gets anywhere close to 10 mpg, especially once ACC season rolls around, I will be shocked speechless.

It is likely a fair argument that Duke has never had a freshman big man as good as Okafor before, which lends to the possibility of what was not being anywhere comparable to what will be this season.

All three Plumlees < Okafor.

S. Williams < Okafor.

Boozer < Okafor.

Maybe Brand, but I think not, especially when a large sample size of Brand's inaugural season was lost to injury, and more importantly, the 97-98 team had a remarkably even distribution of minutes, coupled with a wide margin of victory when not facing UNC or Clemson.

(purely my opinion, but I would take Okafor over Brand without a second thought).

Parks/Meeks < Okafor.

Laettner vs. Okafor is an endless discussion, but it is likely fair to argue that Laettner played a different position than Okafor, or at the very least, a position that no longer exists in college basketball.

Abdelnaby < Okafor.

I cannot foresee Okafor playing 35+ plus minutes as an average, but quite close to that number in big games, and there is no way any player as good as Okafor finds himself on the bench (non foul trouble or blow out) for ten to fifteen minutes per game.

Margin of victory may cause Okafor's numbers to be close to 25-30 mpg for a seasonal average, but when it matters, that kiddo is going to be on floor A LOT.

[ACCBBallFan]

At the risk of raising the collective DBR ire by discussing minute distribution:

(a) It's been said before, but freshman big men at Duke rarely top 25 mpg. I'll be surprised if Jahlil gets up to 30 mpg.

(b) Tyus and Rasheed (and probably Quinn, too) are more likely to log 27 to 32 mpg, rather than 20.

(c) If our 10th man (or even our 9th man) gets anywhere close to 10 mpg, especially once ACC season rolls around, I will be shocked speechless.

You are right on all points Kedsy, as I was speaking mostly to PT up until end of season when coach K inevitably reverts to 7 man rotation by first Carolina game, ACCT and NCAAT and only plays MP3 as necessary and Semi/Grayson not much at all.

For most of season if Oak cannot go 30 MPG, MP3 logs more by default.

If Amile or Justise are unavailable, Sheed plays some SF and Tyus logs more mintues in combo with Matt or Quinn but Tyus' primary partner is Matt for reasons stated:

1. Sheed - Tyus - Oak all need the ball and only 1 ball, and
2. two 6' 1" at best combos is too small to do too often.

My ony disappointments for C2C were lacklucker dunk contest and no set play alley oops with athletes like Semi, Grayson, Sheed and Justise to benefit from back screen from either center. In fairness Winslow had cramps and Semi might not have been expecting to partake.

[TruBlu]

In past years, incoming transfers have played in this game, right? Has anybody heard why Sean Obi didn't play at all?

Not sure why he didn't play. I cannot remember if transfers have played in the scrimmage.

He did get off the bench to go in the game once, when another player (Justise, maybe?) had a cramp in his calf. The player recovered sufficiently before play resumed, and Obi returned to the bench. So we can probably rule out an injury to Obi as the reason for him not playing.

[UrinalCake]

My ony disappointments for C2C were lacklucker dunk contest and no set play alley oops with athletes like Semi, Grayson, Sheed and Justise to benefit from back screen from either center.

Well the other issue is that when you play an intra-squad scrimmage, your opponent already knows all of your set plays. Makes it kind of hard to call them out. 8-)

[Durham Blue Devil]

At the risk of raising the collective DBR ire by discussing minute distribution:

(a) It's been said before, but freshman big men at Duke rarely top 25 mpg. I'll be surprised if Jahlil gets up to 30 mpg.

(b) Tyus and Rasheed (and probably Quinn, too) are more likely to log 27 to 32 mpg, rather than 20.

(c) If our 10th man (or even our 9th man) gets anywhere close to 10 mpg, especially once ACC season rolls around, I will be shocked speechless.

Kedsy, I mostly observe rather than post, and rarely disagree with your analysis, but after watching Okafor at CTC coupled with Coach K's comments about him, I would be absolutely shocked if he played in the 25-30 minutes range this year on average. As Coach K said, there is really no one like him in college basketball and that is too great of an asset to keep on the bench solely because he is a freshman big man.

On an unrelated note, I was wondering if others at CTC who have also been there previous years noticed the student section only about 3/4 filled and a decent amount of the students left at halftime. Being a scrimmage, this obviously is not a big deal but having been at all of the previous CTC's events, this was by far the worst student showing. Given that there are no big time home games on the pre-conference schedule, I'm hopeful that the poor turnout this past weekend was due to parents weekend and that we aren't going to have a low energy 3/4 filled student section this year. I know this is nit-picking but nonetheless, given the standout recruiting class and its related hype, I expected the student section to be filled as it usually is for CTC.

[ACCBBallFan]

Not sure why he didn't play. I cannot remember if transfers have played in the scrimmage.

He did get off the bench to go in the game once, when another player (Justise, maybe?) had a cramp in his calf. The player recovered sufficiently before play resumed, and Obi returned to the bench. So we can probably rule out an injury to Obi as the reason for him not playing.The other odd thing was that Sean Obi was on Okafor's team rather than on MP3's team to give Oak another big to challenge him who has prior NCAA experience at SMU, apparently a decent defender.

[CDu]

At the risk of raising the collective DBR ire by discussing minute distribution:

(a) It's been said before, but freshman big men at Duke rarely top 25 mpg. I'll be surprised if Jahlil gets up to 30 mpg.

(b) Tyus and Rasheed (and probably Quinn, too) are more likely to log 27 to 32 mpg, rather than 20.

(c) If our 10th man (or even our 9th man) gets anywhere close to 10 mpg, especially once ACC season rolls around, I will be shocked speechless.

Agree completely on points (b) and (c). However, I think it's questionable to make limits about Okafor's playing time. Given how good he has looked (he is more advanced than Brand was as a freshman and certainly physically mature). And given the substantial dropoff in talent from him to the next option at center (sorry, Plumlee!), I would say that he'll play as many minutes as he can handle.

We only have to look back one year to see a freshman big man average 30 mpg (Parker averaged 30.7 mpg last year). I'm not saying Okafor will definitely do so as well, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he did. Based on everything that has been said about him this Fall and based on how amazing he looked in the Blue/White game, I suspect he'll play as many minutes as he can handle. Maybe that results in <25mpg, but it could well be that he can handle 28-30 just fine. I'm hoping for the latter, because he appears to be THAT good.

As for Obi not playing, I'm wondering if Coach K was simply going with the idea of "let's get our 10 active players as much time together as possible." Given that four of the 10 guys are freshman and two others played VERY sparingly last year, it may be that the coaches feel that burning game minutes on a guy who won't play this year is a waste of a valuable limited resource.

[uh_no]

2. two 6' 1" at best combos is too small to do too often.


Shabazz Napier 6'1
Ryan Boatright 6'0

per uconn's website

[flyingdutchdevil]

Agree completely on points (b) and (c). However, I think it's questionable to make limits about Okafor's playing time. Given how good he has looked (he is more advanced than Brand was as a freshman and certainly physically mature). And given the substantial dropoff in talent from him to the next option at center (sorry, Plumlee!), I would say that he'll play as many minutes as he can handle.

We only have to look back one year to see a freshman big man average 30 mpg (Parker averaged 30.7 mpg last year). I'm not saying Okafor will definitely do so as well, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he did. Based on everything that has been said about him this Fall and based on how amazing he looked in the Blue/White game, I suspect he'll play as many minutes as he can handle. Maybe that results in <25mpg, but it could well be that he can handle 28-30 just fine. I'm hoping for the latter, because he appears to be THAT good.

As for Obi not playing, I'm wondering if Coach K was simply going with the idea of "let's get our 10 active players as much time together as possible." Given that four of the 10 guys are freshman and two others played VERY sparingly last year, it may be that the coaches feel that burning game minutes on a guy who won't play this year is a waste of a valuable limited resource.

I think you're right, but the one criteria that I see holding Okafor back is foul trouble. Tough for a freshman big man to not get in foul trouble. Tough for a big man to not get in foul trouble who actually plays defense (sorry Jabari!). Okafor will get all the minutes he can handle, but the opposing team will go hard at Okafor to get him into foul trouble.

[CDu]

Shabazz Napier 6'1
Ryan Boatright 6'0

per uconn's website

Yeah, guard height should not be a concern with regard to who is on the floor. However, we'd want at least one (if not both) of those small guards to be good defensively. Debatable how good either T. Jones or Cook are defensively.

I suspect we'll see a fair amount of those two guys on the floor together, although if M. Jones' shooting touch is as good as it has looked in brief glimpses so far this year, I won't be distraught if he or Sulaimon starts over Cook. But either way, T. Jones and Cook will play a lot, and as such will play together a fair amount. Maybe it's only 10 mpg together (with both getting around 30 mpg), but they'll see plenty of time on the floor together this year.

If I had to take an early guess at minutes (based on a whopping 24 minutes of exhibition play without substitutions), I'd guess something like:

Okafor ~26-28
Jefferson ~28
Winslow ~24
Sulaimon ~28
T. Jones ~30
Cook ~26
M. Jones ~16
Plumlee ~10-12
Ojeleye ~4-6
Allen ~4-6

[Kedsy]

The other odd thing was that Sean Obi was on Okafor's team rather than on MP3's team to give Oak another big to challenge him who has prior NCAA experience at SMU, apparently a decent defender.

Obi went to Rice. Your point still holds, though.


Agree completely on points (b) and (c). However, I think it's questionable to make limits about Okafor's playing time. Given how good he has looked (he is more advanced than Brand was as a freshman and certainly physically mature). And given the substantial dropoff in talent from him to the next option at center (sorry, Plumlee!), I would say that he'll play as many minutes as he can handle.

You may be right. I think the limiting factors will be: (a) potential foul trouble (with other teams doing whatever they can to draw fouls from our star freshman big man); and (b) fatigue from other really big, strong men constantly banging and bumping him (something he rarely experienced in high school and may or may not be experiencing to the same extent in practices -- I'm sure Marshall is physical with Jahlil, but there are limits to how you beat up teammates that opposing centers will probably not observe).


Yeah, guard height should not be a concern with regard to who is on the floor. However, we'd want at least one (if not both) of those small guards to be good defensively. Debatable how good either T. Jones or Cook are defensively.

I suspect we'll see a fair amount of those two guys on the floor together, although if M. Jones' shooting touch is as good as it has looked in brief glimpses so far this year, I won't be distraught if he or Sulaimon starts over Cook. But either way, T. Jones and Cook will play a lot, and as such will play together a fair amount. Maybe it's only 10 mpg together (with both getting around 30 mpg), but they'll see plenty of time on the floor together this year.

If I had to take an early guess at minutes (based on a whopping 24 minutes of exhibition play without substitutions), I'd guess something like:

Okafor ~26-28
Jefferson ~28
Winslow ~24
Sulaimon ~28
T. Jones ~30
Cook ~26
M. Jones ~16
Plumlee ~10-12
Ojeleye ~4-6
Allen ~4-6

I agree with pretty much all of this. Then the last two months of the year, Semi's and Grayson's minutes will evaporate and some of the other players' minutes will go up.

[jimsumner]

The other odd thing was that Sean Obi was on Okafor's team rather than on MP3's team to give Oak another big to challenge him who has prior NCAA experience at SMU, apparently a decent defender.

Obi played at Rice.

Transfers have played in the B/w game in their sit-out years in the past. Rodney Hood not only played two seasons ago but he dominated. Seth Curry also played well in the same context.

Back-up power forward is an interesting dilemma. I think we all assume that Okafor starts at the 5, Jefferson at the 4, with Plumlee the back-up 5. Do Okafor and Plumlee play together any? Will Jefferson play some 5? Will Ojeleye get major minutes at the 4 or will Winslow move up from the wing?

I do think Ojeleye has a shot at getting into the rotation. Duke has a number of early games that should be blow-outs, so K may have some opportunities to play around with different lineups. But he does tend to compress the rotation as the season progresses, so Ojeleye and Allen likely have a small window.

[CDu]

You may be right. I think the limiting factors will be: (a) potential foul trouble (with other teams doing whatever they can to draw fouls from our star freshman big man); and (b) fatigue from other really big, strong men constantly banging and bumping him (something he rarely experienced in high school and may or may not be experiencing to the same extent in practices -- I'm sure Marshall is physical with Jahlil, but there are limits to how you beat up teammates that opposing centers will probably not observe).

I agree that those will be the keys to how much he plays. He certainly isn't going to be threatened by anyone on our team for playing time at C. It's all up to how he adapts to the physicality of college ball and avoiding foul trouble.


I agree with pretty much all of this. Then the last two months of the year, Semi's and Grayson's minutes will evaporate and some of the other players' minutes will go up.

Yup. And when those guys' minutes go down, I suspect that it'll be Cook/Sulaimon getting Allen's minutes and Jefferson/Winslow getting Ojeleye's. I also wouldn't be surprised if Okafor started cutting into Plumlee's minutes down the stretch as well. Although that is contingent on the discussion above re: foul trouble/physicality.

[Troublemaker]

My ony disappointments for C2C were lacklucker dunk contest and no set play alley oops with athletes like Semi, Grayson, Sheed and Justise to benefit from back screen from either center.


Well the other issue is that when you play an intra-squad scrimmage, your opponent already knows all of your set plays. Makes it kind of hard to call them out. 8-)

Plus, we did run a Tyus to Justice backdoor lob on the first play of the scrimmage, I think. Justise missed the layup on the play.

[ACCBBallFan]

I knew that but erred as I typed. Thanks Kedsy and Jim for correcting my oversight.

[ACCBBallFan]

Well the other issue is that when you play an intra-squad scrimmage, your opponent already knows all of your set plays. Makes it kind of hard to call them out. 8-)I had forgotten there was an ill fated alley oop attempt on the first play from Tyus to Justise that rimemd out rather than resulted in a slam.

[COYS]

I rewatched the scrimmage again because . . . well . . . I just love the sight of our guys running up and down Cameron again.

Upon second viewing, I actually think it's worth mentioning just how well Matt played in the first half. He played fantastic defense. His size at the 2 spot plus the strength and wingspan of Amile, Jahlil, and Justise is formidable. Offensively (assuming he really can hit his threes consistently), he had some really, really sweet plays. As has been mentioned, his first basket came off of a floater in the lane, but it wasn't the floater that was impressive to me. What was impressive was how that play developed. He got the ball on the right wing and brought it back towards the middle of the court. Jahlil set up a lackadaisical screen for Matt's man before rolling toward the hoop. Matt drove into the lane while staying in control and looking to dump the ball off to Jahlil. The defense sagged off Matt to cover Jahlil and Matt immediately switched and looked for his own shot. At this point in the game, Jahlil was off to a hot start and the Blue Team was clearly trying to deny him the ball. Matt took advantage of the attention Jahlil was getting and got himself an easy bucket on a (sorta) pick n' roll.

In addition, most of his other baskets came off of superb movement without the ball. He played almost like the perimeter version of Amile, getting himself into the right place at the right time, ready to make the defense pay if they give him an opening. I definitely see why K mentions Matt as someone who can be effective without the ball in his hands. If (big IF) he can hit that perimeter shot, he could be a devastating role player on both sides of the ball.

I was also interested to see just how Justise was used on offense. He's so strong and powerful on drives to the hoop his game actually reminds me a bit of Gerald Henderson's game (there are obvious differences, of course, but the strength and power they possess combined with the decent jump shot but lack of consistent three point range is similar). In fact, in a couple instances, it seemed like his team set up what I think of as "The Gerald" inbounds play on the sideline when the ball is either inbounded to Justise or inbounded and then quickly passed to Justise (or Gerald, back when he was at Duke) and the rest of the team clears out an entire side of the floor, allowing Justise to use his strength to get to the hoop. Interestingly, despite Justise being a lefty, this play was set up to clear out the right side of the court, as it would have been for the right-dominant Gerald. Now, to be honest, it could have appeared that the team was setting up this play a few times purely by coincidence, and the play never resulted in a bucket (though I think he was fouled once). However, I would interested to see Justise given an opportunity to use his strength and power on similar plays in the future . . . I just hope those plays are set up for him to go to his left, instead of his right. In fact, with Jahlil lurking on the weakside and keeping potential help defenders at home and/or sealed off, I would imagine that a well executed clear out for Justise could result in some Gerald-esque spectacular dunks.

[Troublemaker]

First Qualifier- It was just a Blue White game and we have been fooled before
Second qualifier- I reserve the right to change my assessment of tonight after these kids play about 5 to 10 games counting the exhibitions. I distinctly recall texting Kedsy in a panic last year during the first half of our first exhibition game against the DII School who at the time was carving up our defense like swiss cheese. I knew in my heart that day that our defense sucked and we were in big trouble on that end of the floor. We were actually behind at the half that day which is unheard of in the exhibition games against the DII opponents.

Tonight, I left Cameron Indoor absolutely giddy over what I had just witnessed, and I over heard a couple of parents of current players and two dads of recruits that were there who were discussing after the game, down on the floor, how wowed they were at this team. If you put a gun to my head right now I would be forced to say this team is better right now than last year's team was. Again, its just the Blue/White, and I reserve the right to change my tune after seeing those 5 to 10 games. But wow.


This strikes me as too restrained. I don't think we'll need 5-10 games to assess that this is a top 5 team and better than last year's team. I'm actually quite comfortable saying those things right now. We have a complete team. Size, athleticism, and skill. Great bigs, very good wings, very good point guards.

It is true that some fans got too excited about last year's team early. I am afraid I called last year's team "loaded" after the Davidson game. No, THIS year's team is loaded. I could be wrong again, sure. Pull my basketball fan card if I am :-).

There is understandable nervousness about how good the defense will be after last season. But I think the much better size inside (Jah, healthy MP3, Amile at PF), expected major minutes for excellent wing defenders Justise and Matt, a consistent Rasheed who should be very good on-the-ball, Coach K's adjustment to the ball-screen defense, improved conditioning regimen, familiarity with the defensive rules emphases, and the early identification of an on-court leader/communicator in Amile will almost certainly result in a good defense.

[Troublemaker]

If Amile is as good as Lance was at making switches and effectively guarding the man he switched to, then he might be our most important player not named Okafor.

Even if Amile isn't as effective as Lance in that regard, I don't think we'll see too many switches this year. We played the entire 24 minutes of CTC without any switching or hedging on ball screens. Lots of icing and sometimes going under the ball screen instead.

Hedging and switching will still be in the toolbag but I suspect they will probably be utilized against
(1) guards that can hit a pull-up three (pretty rare in college)
(2) stretch big men who can pick and pop for threes (also pretty rare)

[flyingdutchdevil]

This strikes me as too restrained. I don't think we'll need 5-10 games to assess that this is a top 5 team and better than last year's team. I'm actually quite comfortable saying those things right now. We have a complete team. Size, athleticism, and skill. Great bigs, very good wings, very good point guards.

It is true that some fans got too excited about last year's team early. I am afraid I called last year's team "loaded" after the Davidson game. No, THIS year's team is loaded. I could be wrong again, sure. Pull my basketball fan card if I am :-).

There is understandable nervousness about how good the defense will be after last season. But I think the much better size inside (Jah, healthy MP3, Amile at PF), expected major minutes for excellent wing defenders Justise and Matt, a consistent Rasheed who should be very good on-the-ball, Coach K's adjustment to the ball-screen defense, improved conditioning regimen, familiarity with the defensive rules emphases, and the early identification of an on-court leader/communicator in Amile will almost certainly result in a good defense.

Last year's team was loaded... with offensive firepower. We were a top 3 offensive team all of last year, and a lot of the time we were the top offensive team. Defensively, we were a nightmare. However, DBR never, ever gave up on the defense of last year's team (until the end of the ACC reg season. By then, we knew we were hopeless). This time last year, we were ecstatic about offense AND defense. 5 games in (especially with the Vermont game), Duke showed that they couldn't guard their own shadow. Most posters - including the heavy hitters who have credibility - said that Duke would get there on D. If never happened.

This year, my gut tells me offense will be good, if not really good (maybe not as good as last year, but it has top 10 potential). Our defense will improve for three simple reasons: 1) our core players are a year older, 2) we get in a Big Dog and a Swiss Army knife, c) addition by subtraction on the defensive end (sorry Jabari and Hood). However, how much we improve is the real question. Can we play as a unit? Can we contain penetration? Can bigs score on Amile/Okafor/MP3? These are all questions I have no idea about and I'm excited to explore in those first 5 to 10 games.

[MCFinARL]

This strikes me as too restrained. I don't think we'll need 5-10 games to assess that this is a top 5 team and better than last year's team. I'm actually quite comfortable saying those things right now. We have a complete team. Size, athleticism, and skill. Great bigs, very good wings, very good point guards.

It is true that some fans got too excited about last year's team early. I am afraid I called last year's team "loaded" after the Davidson game. No, THIS year's team is loaded. I could be wrong again, sure. Pull my basketball fan card if I am :-).

There is understandable nervousness about how good the defense will be after last season. But I think the much better size inside (Jah, healthy MP3, Amile at PF), expected major minutes for excellent wing defenders Justise and Matt, a consistent Rasheed who should be very good on-the-ball, Coach K's adjustment to the ball-screen defense, improved conditioning regimen, familiarity with the defensive rules emphases, and the early identification of an on-court leader/communicator in Amile will almost certainly result in a good defense.

No, if you are wrong we will give you an EXTRA basketball fan card. We will just pull your expert card. ;)

Here's hoping you are right, though.

[COYS]

Last year's team was loaded... with offensive firepower. We were a top 3 offensive team all of last year, and a lot of the time we were the top offensive team. Defensively, we were a nightmare. However, DBR never, ever gave up on the defense of last year's team (until the end of the ACC reg season. By then, we knew we were hopeless). This time last year, we were ecstatic about offense AND defense. 5 games in (especially with the Vermont game), Duke showed that they couldn't guard their own shadow. Most posters - including the heavy hitters who have credibility - said that Duke would get there on D. If never happened.

This year, my gut tells me offense will be good, if not really good (maybe not as good as last year, but it has top 10 potential). Our defense will improve for three simple reasons: 1) our core players are a year older, 2) we get in a Big Dog and a Swiss Army knife, c) addition by subtraction on the defensive end (sorry Jabari and Hood). However, how much we improve is the real question. Can we play as a unit? Can we contain penetration? Can bigs score on Amile/Okafor/MP3? These are all questions I have no idea about and I'm excited to explore in those first 5 to 10 games.

There have been three seasons in the recent past when either the offense or the defense was poor by Duke standards. The 2007 team had only the 51st best offense (all numbers via kenpom) but the following year Duke moved up to 19. The 2012 team had an abysmal 81 ranking on defense (made worse by losing Ryan for the home stretch), but Duke jumped up to 31 the following season, and was even flirting with the top 10 before Ryan's injury. Then, of course, last year happened when Duke had a truly horrid defensive year. I share your gut feeling that the defense will be better this year because a coach K team is a) usually really good at defense and b) the year following a meltdown on either offense or defense, the team has come back the next season significantly improved in that area. Perhaps the only reason that historical trend wouldn't hold true is that the veterans on this squad have never been part of a vintage Duke defensive squad (although we were close to that two years ago when Ryan was healthy).

In addition to your observations, I'd also like to add that most of the guys will also be asked to guard positions they are used to guarding. Jabari wasn't used to guarding centers. It showed. Hood wasn't used to guarding power forwards or even big wings. It showed. In addition, because of the make-up of the team last year, those two had to carry our offense AND be strong on the defensive end while playing out of position. This year, Jabari, Marshall and Amile will be right at home guarding bigger guys while we have a myriad of options on the wings and at the guard spots. Not everyone can be a Kyle Singler and come in and guard centers despite being a freshman SF/PF. Luckily this year, we don't need anyone to do that. We just need people to guard the positions they are used to and best suited to guard.

[Kedsy]

The 2012 team had an abysmal 81 ranking on defense (made worse by losing Ryan for the home stretch), but Duke jumped up to 31 the following season, and was even flirting with the top 10 before Ryan's injury.

We were doing better than flirting. Pomeroy ranked Duke's D as #4 in the country just after Ryan's injury.

I'm not sure if I've said this on the board yet or not (apologies if so), but it's amazing to me that we could lose three NBA players (including the #2 draft pick in the NBA draft plus another mid-first-rounder) and replace them with freshmen and say we clearly have a better team. That's pretty crazy.

[Troublemaker]

No, if you are wrong we will give you an EXTRA basketball fan card. We will just pull your expert card. ;)

Here's hoping you are right, though.

Expert? Ha! Don't make me laugh!

No expertise here, but I just don't feel like being gun-shy even if I fired wrong last season. I see a complete team that will be one of the national favorites all season long, and I don't want to sandbag that diagnosis just because we're coming off a disappointing season.

[uh_no]

We were doing better than flirting. Pomeroy ranked Duke's D as #4 in the country just after Ryan's injury.

I'm not sure if I've said this on the board yet or not (apologies if so), but it's amazing to me that we could lose three NBA players (including the #2 draft pick in the NBA draft plus another mid-first-rounder) and replace them with freshmen and say we clearly have a better team. That's pretty crazy.

well, i think it demonstrates that positionlessness only goes so far. I do not know if we are better, person for person, but I think we have a combination of folks that are more complimentary, and thus stronger as a team. A football team couldn't field 11 HoF quarterbacks...and we had trouble with a platoon of PF-ish guys who were asked to play center.

[Mike Corey]

I have nothing to contribute aside from saying thank you, thank you to those of you offering commentary and insight into the team from this past weekend. You're the greatest.

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-31053-thank-you-gif-Zach-Galifianaki-LA0p.gif

[flyingdutchdevil]

We were doing better than flirting. Pomeroy ranked Duke's D as #4 in the country just after Ryan's injury.

I'm not sure if I've said this on the board yet or not (apologies if so), but it's amazing to me that we could lose three NBA players (including the #2 draft pick in the NBA draft plus another mid-first-rounder) and replace them with freshmen and say we clearly have a better team. That's pretty crazy.

Are you saying that we have a better team despite losing so much NBA talent, or are you saying that DBR is saying it and that isn't correct?

I'm not sure if we're better than last year (probably not on offense, probably on defense), but we absolutely have more balance. We have 2 excellent 1s (TJ, Cook), 2 great-to-good 5s (Okafor, MP3), and 3-5 players who round out the versatile 2-4s. It's quite a nice set up.

[Duvall]

We were doing better than flirting. Pomeroy ranked Duke's D as #4 in the country just after Ryan's injury.

I'm not sure if I've said this on the board yet or not (apologies if so), but it's amazing to me that we could lose three NBA players (including the #2 draft pick in the NBA draft plus another mid-first-rounder) and replace them with freshmen and say we clearly have a better team. That's pretty crazy.

Well, it was just two years ago that Duke lost a lottery pick and a late first-rounder and got substantially better by adding two freshmen to the rotation. Why not three?

[Gthoma2a]

Are you saying that we have a better team despite losing so much NBA talent, or are you saying that DBR is saying it and that isn't correct?

I'm not sure if we're better than last year (probably not on offense, probably on defense), but we absolutely have more balance. We have 2 excellent 1s (TJ, Cook), 2 great-to-good 5s (Okafor, MP3), and 3-5 players who round out the versatile 2-4s. It's quite a nice set up.

We lost to Mercer last year with a team that let them score with relative ease throughout the game. I think that it is safe to say that, despite being extremely talented players, Rodney and Jabari weren't what we needed to win on their own. The team was very unbalanced with them in the driver's seat. If we had Okafor down low, and Winslow to add defense during the lapses, they would be amazing assets. As it was, they were just really talented players on a very unbalanced team. We brought in a pass-first point guard, a force of a SF and a big man that anchors us in the post and allows Amile to play his natural position. Sheed needs the ball, and he has a much better chance of seeing it, without two other guys who are mostly just insane scorers getting all of the touches on the perimeter. It made him useless, whereas he can shine this year. Also, we have seen improvement in Matt's offense that means we can really use him on both ends of the court, instead of purely as defense. I also like Jahlil's ability to rebound/affect shots more than I do Jabari's. Add to it that he seems to score with ease, opening up the entire floor to our shooters as the defense collapses, and we're much improved.

My ideal situation would have been to still have Jabari to play the 4, but I don't see how you can argue that we aren't better than last year, as a team.

[luvdahops]

Are you saying that we have a better team despite losing so much NBA talent, or are you saying that DBR is saying it and that isn't correct?

I'm not sure if we're better than last year (probably not on offense, probably on defense), but we absolutely have more balance. We have 2 excellent 1s (TJ, Cook), 2 great-to-good 5s (Okafor, MP3), and 3-5 players who round out the versatile 2-4s. It's quite a nice set up.

I think we may very well be better on offense, too. I know our offensive efficiency ratings last year were way up there, but a simple eye test told a somewhat different story, as there were multiple games in which we endured long scoring droughts and general offensive disarray. I am hopeful that the presence of Big Jah and Tyus will address these issues directly. I expect Okafor to be a highly efficient player offensively - shooting a high percentage from the floor, and getting to and converting from the foul line frequently - in addition to putting up big numbers. There seems to be a major (and appropriate) focus on making sure he gets the ball. And there is a reason that Tyus was tabbed the starting PG before practice officially began. He orchestrates the offense in a way that no one else on the roster can (and I am a Quinn fan).

[Kedsy]

Well, it was just two years ago that Duke lost a lottery pick and a late first-rounder and got substantially better by adding two freshmen to the rotation. Why not three?


Are you saying that we have a better team despite losing so much NBA talent, or are you saying that DBR is saying it and that isn't correct?

I didn't get to see CTC, but from what people I respect have said and the way Coach K is talking, along with my own suspicions, I think our team will be better than last year, possibly significantly better.

I just think it's crazy that such a thing is even possible (assuming you don't do things the way Kentucky does them). It's a testament to Coach K's skill and the power of growth, as well as a wonderful recruiting class.

To answer Duvall's question, three is more than two (and quantity does matter in this regard) and also losing a top two or three draft pick (among your overall losses) is a different animal than the best guy you lost being a #10 pick (as it was after 2012).

After 1999 we lost four lottery picks, including the #1 NBA draft pick. The next season, according to RSCI we'd scored the top recruiting class in the country (by a lot) but did we have any chance in the world of being a better team in 2000? I don't think so. After 2002 we lost two of the top three NBA draft picks plus an early second rounder, again pulled in the top recruiting class in the land, and again we had no chance to be better. After 2011 we lost the top pick in the draft, a late first-rounder, and an early second rounder and despite the second ranked recruiting class in the country, we once again had no chance to field a better team. After 2013, we lost a late-first rounder, a second rounder, and an undrafted player who made an NBA roster, we nabbed the fourth best recruiting class in the country and thought we could have a better team, but even then we didn't.

Even getting better after losing two NBA players is not an easy matter. In addition to 2013, the only arguable one was 2010, after losing Gerald Henderson to the draft and future NBA player Elliott Williams to transfer. The only other seasons during the Coach K era after we lost two players who made NBA teams the following year were 1987 (much worse team than the previous season); 1993 (much worse than the previous season); 2005 (much worse than the previous season); and 2007 (much worse than the previous season).

So, assuming the early returns are correct and this year's team is significantly better than last year's team, it's a pretty amazing thing.

[Kedsy]

We lost to Mercer last year with a team that let them score with relative ease throughout the game.

In 2010, we got blown out by an NC State team that finished 5-11 in the ACC, and let them score with relative ease throughout the game. And yet we won the national championship. You simply can't judge how good a team is based on one game.

Last year's team had defensive problems, no doubt, but saying "Mercer" as if that's all the argument you need is poor reasoning.


I don't see how you can argue that we aren't better than last year, as a team.

Well, I happen to agree that this season we'll be a better team than last season, but since we haven't played a single game yet, to say "I don't see how you can argue" otherwise seems a bit over the top and unfounded.

[Duvall]

My ideal situation would have been to still have Jabari to play the 4, but I don't see how you can argue that we aren't better than last year, as a team.

I mean, you can *argue* it. It's entirely possible that this year's team becomes only slightly better defensively while giving up a lot of shooting ability, and ends up being a worse team.

[uh_no]

In 2010, we got blown out by an NC State team that finished 5-11 in the ACC, and let them score with relative ease throughout the game. And yet we won the national championship. You simply can't judge how good a team is based on one game.

Last year's team had defensive problems, no doubt, but saying "Mercer" as if that's all the argument you need is poor reasoning.

while you're right, i don't think your point invalidates the argument. He could have just as easily said "we lost to several teams we should not have because we let them score with ease throughout the game which was likely attributed to by our consistently bad defensive efficiency"

[Kedsy]

while you're right, i don't think your point invalidates the argument. He could have just as easily said "we lost to several teams we should not have because we let them score with ease throughout the game which was likely attributed to by our consistently bad defensive efficiency"

True, but it galls me the way people talk down about past Duke teams that happened to have lost earlier than expected in the NCAAT.

Frankly, I still believe that in spite of our defensive problems, if you played the tournament 100 times the 2014 Blue Devils would have made the Final Four more times than they'd have lost in the first round. To say, "this year's team will be better than last year's because, Mercer," is poor reasoning.

[CDu]

True, but it galls me the way people talk down about past Duke teams that happened to have lost earlier than expected in the NCAAT.

Frankly, I still believe that in spite of our defensive problems, if you played the tournament 100 times the 2014 Blue Devils would have made the Final Four more times than they'd have lost in the first round. To say, "this year's team will be better than last year's because, Mercer," is poor reasoning.

Agreed. I think we can all agree that last year's team was flawed. It should also be obvious that the Mercer result was an outlier.

I think this year's team will be better, but it is entirely unrelated to Mercer. It think this year's team will be better because we substantially upgraded the two most important positions on the floor (PG and post man) and our returning players have hopefully improved as well.

We may not be as good at 3pt shooting, but in some ways I see that as a blessing in that we may be a more consistent offensive team. Last year's group could at times blow the doors off the place and at others struggle to score. Hopefully this year's group (while perhaps lacking the top gear of last year's team) will be more consistently able to get out of first gear. And I think we will be better defensively simply because I refuse to believe a Coach K team could be worse than last year defensively. Also, losing three of our worst defenders can't hurt.

[uh_no]

Agreed. I think we can all agree that last year's team was flawed. It should also be obvious that the Mercer result was an outlier.

I think this year's team will be better, but it is entirely unrelated to Mercer. It think this year's team will be better because we substantially upgraded the two most important positions on the floor (PG and post man) and our returning players have hopefully improved as well.

We may not be as good at 3pt shooting, but in some ways I see that as a blessing in that we may be a more consistent offensive team. Last year's group could at times blow the doors off the place and at others struggle to score. Hopefully this year's group (while perhaps lacking the top gear of last year's team) will be more consistently able to get out of first gear. And I think we will be better defensively simply because I refuse to believe a Coach K team could be worse than last year defensively. Also, losing three of our worst defenders can't hurt.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I think our offensive inconsistency was as much to do with how the offense was run overall and shot selection more than shot%. Obviously shot% plays into output, but having run numbers, our 3 point output relative to 3 point shots taken tends to be about as, or more consistent than 2 point consistency

[Gthoma2a]

In 2010, we got blown out by an NC State team that finished 5-11 in the ACC, and let them score with relative ease throughout the game. And yet we won the national championship. You simply can't judge how good a team is based on one game.

Last year's team had defensive problems, no doubt, but saying "Mercer" as if that's all the argument you need is poor reasoning.



Well, I happen to agree that this season we'll be a better team than last season, but since we haven't played a single game yet, to say "I don't see how you can argue" otherwise seems a bit over the top and unfounded.

I think we both know that Mercer wasn't the only time the team last year played flat and really just didn't look like a good, by Duke standards, team. Clemson, definitely comes to mind. I could name more losses and a few wins that showed flaws more than they showed strengths. We were a team that always had talent, but really threw your blood pressure up there for extended periods (where I stood at the television in disbelief). Time will tell about this team, but the roster is filled out in a way that I would favor to beat last year's team a wide majority of the time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I think our offensive inconsistency was as much to do with how the offense was run overall and shot selection more than shot%. Obviously shot% plays into output, but having run numbers, our 3 point output relative to 3 point shots taken tends to be about as, or more consistent than 2 point consistency

Yes, but the standard deviation with 3pt shooting is often significantly higher than 2pt shots. This leads to 2pt shooting being more consistent than 3pt shooting (standard deviation = risk). The downside is, if down by a few points late in the game, our 3pt shooting isn't going to be as effective a tool this year.

While I would obviously always take a balanced offense over one that shoots too many 3pters or too many 2pt shots, I'd take a team that relies more heavily on 2s than 3s.

Also, CDu, while we don't have a vintage 3pt shooting Duke team, I wouldn't sleep on Sulaimon and Cook. Both players have historically shot around 40%, which is a very good result. If Okafor is 50% of what we all think he's gonna be, there is going to be plenty of opportunity to get in easy 3pt shots. Lastly, M. Jones may have found the light and I assume one of T. Jones, Winslow, or Semi will be a good - if not reliable - 3pt shooter this year. Fingers crossed.

[uh_no]

Yes, but the standard deviation with 3pt shooting is often significantly higher than 2pt shots.

That is not actually true. Having done this exact analysis on a few years of duke data, the standard deviation from expected points when normalized for the number of shots of that type taken in a given game is actually LESS for 3pointers than 2. (aka if you took 10 shots and shoot 40% on the year, you should expect 12 points...how many did you actually get for the game?)

That said, while the distribution for 2 pointers were relatively normal, the distribution for 3 pointers was skew left....meaning our good 3 point nights were slightly better than average, while our bad 3 point nights were more exceptionally bad.

[MCFinARL]

We were doing better than flirting. Pomeroy ranked Duke's D as #4 in the country just after Ryan's injury.

I'm not sure if I've said this on the board yet or not (apologies if so), but it's amazing to me that we could lose three NBA players (including the #2 draft pick in the NBA draft plus another mid-first-rounder) and replace them with freshmen and say we clearly have a better team. That's pretty crazy.

You could stop with the bolded part and still have something that is amazing--and wonderful--to me. Three NBA players from last year's team. I LOVE the sound of that.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

You could stop with the bolded part and still have something that is amazing--and wonderful--to me. Three NBA players from last year's team. I LOVE the sound of that.

Most fans would prefer championships over having future NBA players.

[MCFinARL]

Most fans would prefer championships over having future NBA players.

Well, sure, me too. It wasn't my intention to choose one over the other, just to be happy that Andre Dawkins, to my surprise, is now an NBA player along with Parker and Hood.

[uh_no]

Most fans would prefer championships over having future NBA players.

except apparently at UK, where the best day in program history was the day they put 5 guys in the first round...

[CDu]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I think our offensive inconsistency was as much to do with how the offense was run overall and shot selection more than shot%. Obviously shot% plays into output, but having run numbers, our 3 point output relative to 3 point shots taken tends to be about as, or more consistent than 2 point consistency


Yes, but the standard deviation with 3pt shooting is often significantly higher than 2pt shots. This leads to 2pt shooting being more consistent than 3pt shooting (standard deviation = risk). The downside is, if down by a few points late in the game, our 3pt shooting isn't going to be as effective a tool this year.

While I would obviously always take a balanced offense over one that shoots too many 3pters or too many 2pt shots, I'd take a team that relies more heavily on 2s than 3s.

What the dutchman (or dutchwoman?) said. We are, on average, probably more efficient shooting 3s than 2s. But the variability of that production is undoubtedly greater with a higher volume of 3pt shooting. And when we're on from 3, our offense is off the charts, but when we're off from 3, our offense suffers.


Also, CDu, while we don't have a vintage 3pt shooting Duke team, I wouldn't sleep on Sulaimon and Cook. Both players have historically shot around 40%, which is a very good result. If Okafor is 50% of what we all think he's gonna be, there is going to be plenty of opportunity to get in easy 3pt shots. Lastly, M. Jones may have found the light and I assume one of T. Jones, Winslow, or Semi will be a good - if not reliable - 3pt shooter this year. Fingers crossed.

But Sulaimon and Cook were on last year's team as well, so that's not a point of differentiation. And our best percentage 3pt shooters left the team, and are being replaced in the rotation by 3 guys who are likely to shoot worse (likely substantially so). So while we may be a very capable 3pt shooting team, I feel quite confident in saying that we won't shoot the 3 nearly as well as we did last year.

[uh_no]

But the variability of that production is undoubtedly greater with a higher volume of 3pt shooting. And when we're on from 3, our offense is off the charts, but when we're off from 3, our offense suffers.



Maybe you have different data than i do :)

[ACCBBallFan]

I rewatched the scrimmage again because . . . well . . . I just love the sight of our guys running up and down Cameron again.

Upon second viewing, I actually think it's worth mentioning just how well Matt played in the first half. He played fantastic defense. His size at the 2 spot plus the strength and wingspan of Amile, Jahlil, and Justise is formidable. Offensively (assuming he really can hit his threes consistently), he had some really, really sweet plays. As has been mentioned, his first basket came off of a floater in the lane, but it wasn't the floater that was impressive to me. What was impressive was how that play developed. He got the ball on the right wing and brought it back towards the middle of the court. Jahlil set up a lackadaisical screen for Matt's man before rolling toward the hoop. Matt drove into the lane while staying in control and looking to dump the ball off to Jahlil. The defense sagged off Matt to cover Jahlil and Matt immediately switched and looked for his own shot. At this point in the game, Jahlil was off to a hot start and the Blue Team was clearly trying to deny him the ball. Matt took advantage of the attention Jahlil was getting and got himself an easy bucket on a (sorta) pick n' roll.

In addition, most of his other baskets came off of superb movement without the ball. He played almost like the perimeter version of Amile, getting himself into the right place at the right time, ready to make the defense pay if they give him an opening. I definitely see why K mentions Matt as someone who can be effective without the ball in his hands. If (big IF) he can hit that perimeter shot, he could be a devastating role player on both sides of the ball.

I was also interested to see just how Justise was used on offense. He's so strong and powerful on drives to the hoop his game actually reminds me a bit of Gerald Henderson's game (there are obvious differences, of course, but the strength and power they possess combined with the decent jump shot but lack of consistent three point range is similar). In fact, in a couple instances, it seemed like his team set up what I think of as "The Gerald" inbounds play on the sideline when the ball is either inbounded to Justise or inbounded and then quickly passed to Justise (or Gerald, back when he was at Duke) and the rest of the team clears out an entire side of the floor, allowing Justise to use his strength to get to the hoop. Interestingly, despite Justise being a lefty, this play was set up to clear out the right side of the court, as it would have been for the right-dominant Gerald. Now, to be honest, it could have appeared that the team was setting up this play a few times purely by coincidence, and the play never resulted in a bucket (though I think he was fouled once). However, I would interested to see Justise given an opportunity to use his strength and power on similar plays in the future . . . I just hope those plays are set up for him to go to his left, instead of his right. In fact, with Jahlil lurking on the weakside and keeping potential help defenders at home and/or sealed off, I would imagine that a well executed clear out for Justise could result in some Gerald-esque spectacular dunks.

Totally agree.

I dub them the 5 J's

Jah

Jefferson

Justise

Jones, M

Jones, T

with the other two starters Sheed/Quinn subbing in every 4 minutes or so for constant full court pressure without loss of effectiveness.

Occasionally mass sub in MP3-Semi-Grayson and 2 shooters say Matt and Quinn to allow the three bigs to maximize their time as a unit, as worked sometimes last year. Give MP3 enough time to trade fouls with starting center softening him up for Jah who is already unstoppable return vs a center in foul trouble.

If margin is too negative in less than the 3 minutes planned, then sub in Duke's best 5 Jah- Jefferson- Justice - Sheed (honarary J) - and Jones,T but recognizing 3 of these guys need the ball and only 1 ball.

So get back to primary rotations at 4 minute TV timeout intervals, either 5 J formation or 3 bigs with Sheed/Quinn, with each equally effective just a different look.

Assuming Duke only loses Jah and Quinn, there can be some continuity with seean Obi, recruits and Grayson's eventual development but obviously not as dominant at cdenter despite however much Sean Obi and MP3 improve playing vs Jah every day.

[tommy]

Yes, but the standard deviation with 3pt shooting is often significantly higher than 2pt shots. This leads to 2pt shooting being more consistent than 3pt shooting (standard deviation = risk). The downside is, if down by a few points late in the game, our 3pt shooting isn't going to be as effective a tool this year.

While I would obviously always take a balanced offense over one that shoots too many 3pters or too many 2pt shots, I'd take a team that relies more heavily on 2s than 3s.

Also, CDu, while we don't have a vintage 3pt shooting Duke team, I wouldn't sleep on Sulaimon and Cook. Both players have historically shot around 40%, which is a very good result. If Okafor is 50% of what we all think he's gonna be, there is going to be plenty of opportunity to get in easy 3pt shots. Lastly, M. Jones may have found the light and I assume one of T. Jones, Winslow, or Semi will be a good - if not reliable - 3pt shooter this year. Fingers crossed.

I would not sleep on Tyus Jones as a 3-point shooter either.

[BD80]

Totally agree.

I dub them the 5 J's

Jah

Jefferson

Justise

Jones, M

Jones, T

...

I would suggest the "Flying Js" but Browns owner Jimmy Haslem kind of ruined it

[wilko]

I would suggest the "Flying Js" but Browns owner Jimmy Haslem kind of ruined it

The "5 J's" .... PJ might try to join....
The "J's Son 5" (say it outloud its better; but only a little...)

[ACCBBallFan]

For the name game better than 5 J's or J-Formation, perhaps work in coach K's Army background with something like:

1. Pentagon or

2. fist or

3. J-troop (spin off the old Fackawi tribe F-troop).

I will leave that to others since I was a math major, not creative writing (nor AFAM).

J- Jah

J- Jefferson

J- Justise

J- Jones, M.

J- Jones, T.

can be as effective with no loss of productivity just a diferent look at the first platoon shift

Jah-Jefferson-Justise-Sheed-Quinn.

Matt fits better than 3 guys who all need the ball on court together (Jah, Jones, T and Sheed) or two short guys not known for their defense (Jones, T and Quinn).

[subzero02]

except apparently at UK, where the best day in program history was the day they put 5 guys in the first round...

It's a good recruiting point... Although I am sure Cal only mentions it in passing during his spiel that emphasizes the importance of earning a 4 year degree.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I would not sleep on Tyus Jones as a 3-point shooter either.

I didn't, as per my comment: "Lastly, M. Jones may have found the light and I assume one of T. Jones, Winslow, or Semi will be a good - if not reliable - 3pt shooter this year. Fingers crossed." However, I have never seen T. Jones shoot in college, and only seen around 3 high school games (the one against Whitney Young, McAA, and 'Merica v World). Jones shot a few times, but I wasn't sold.

[TruBlu]

Just a side note, but my seats were directly across from the "real" Duke bench, where Coach K sat. He seldom spoke to any players or coaches, but merely listened in on their huddles.

However, when the game was in progress, he had many discussions about plays with the recruits, who were seated directly behind him. They paid a lot of attention to his words, and if they were on their cell phones at all, I didn't see it.

[CDu]

I didn't, as per my comment: "Lastly, M. Jones may have found the light and I assume one of T. Jones, Winslow, or Semi will be a good - if not reliable - 3pt shooter this year. Fingers crossed." However, I have never seen T. Jones shoot in college, and only seen around 3 high school games (the one against Whitney Young, McAA, and 'Merica v World). Jones shot a few times, but I wasn't sold.

Right. Everyone thought that Matt Jones was a dead-eye shooter coming out of high school, yet he stunk from 3pt range last year. So until we see Tyus Jones knocking down 3s at a high clip, I'm not ready to make any statements about his shooting prowess in the college game. It's certainly possible that he'll be a good shooter this year. But even if he isn't, I think we have a potentially plenty capable 3pt shooting team.

[COYS]

Right. Everyone thought that Matt Jones was a dead-eye shooter coming out of high school, yet he stunk from 3pt range last year. So until we see Tyus Jones knocking down 3s at a high clip, I'm not ready to make any statements about his shooting prowess in the college game. It's certainly possible that he'll be a good shooter this year. But even if he isn't, I think we have a potentially plenty capable 3pt shooting team.

I agree. Despite the offense's occasional lapse into "watch (insert star player's name) go one on one with the opposition," Coach K and the staff are usually excellent at getting good spacing on the court. We've been worried about three point shooting before and yet the team has generally been somewhere between solid to excellent at knocking down threes. I think this is because Duke usually has great spacing which leads to open, clean attempts. As others have noted, there's a good chance we take fewer threes this year (though probably not so few that we set any Duke records for fewest three's attempted), but hopefully those threes will come off of good ball movement and good spacing. I felt like we caught glimpses of that already in the CTC scrimmage. Matt Jones opened his three point shooting account off of a wide-open shot from the corner. Rasheed had a few wide open threes. And Tyus took and made a wide open three in transition, which whether or not he's a consistent shooter or not demonstrated that he is confident enough to take shots like that, at the very least. Quinn's threes were also off of good ball movement. Guys like JJ and Andre could make threes from NBA range when the defender was right in their face. I'm not sure we'll see that type of three point shooting from any of our guys, this season. However, I agree that we have plenty of guys who are good enough shooters to make open threes, which I hope we see a lot of this year.

[COYS]

I agree. Despite the offense's occasional lapse into "watch (insert star player's name) go one on one with the opposition," Coach K and the staff are usually excellent at getting good spacing on the court. We've been worried about three point shooting before and yet the team has generally been somewhere between solid to excellent at knocking down threes. I think this is because Duke usually has great spacing which leads to open, clean attempts. As others have noted, there's a good chance we take fewer threes this year (though probably not so few that we set any Duke records for fewest three's attempted), but hopefully those threes will come off of good ball movement and good spacing. I felt like we caught glimpses of that already in the CTC scrimmage. Matt Jones opened his three point shooting account off of a wide-open shot from the corner. Rasheed had a few wide open threes. And Tyus took and made a wide open three in transition, which whether or not he's a consistent shooter or not demonstrated that he is confident enough to take shots like that, at the very least. Quinn's threes were also off of good ball movement. Guys like JJ and Andre could make threes from NBA range when the defender was right in their face. I'm not sure we'll see that type of three point shooting from any of our guys, this season. However, I agree that we have plenty of guys who are good enough shooters to make open threes, which I hope we see a lot of this year.

Out of curiosity, I looked up our ten year average for 3PA per game. It would probably have been better to figure out our 3PA's per possession, but I don't know offhand where I could find that. In the past ten years, our highest number for 3PA per game was 24 in '07-'08 (our fastest paced team of this span). Interestingly, our lowest came just the year before in '06-'07 with only 15.76 (which shouldn't be surprising given how slow our pace was and how bad that team was on offense by Duke standards). Every other season was somewhere between 22.48 (last year) and 18.7 ('13) for an average of 20.63. I bet we end up just a touch below that average for this season, with somewhere between 18.5 and 20 3PA per game. The make-up of our team this coming year probably best resembles '12-'13 when we had a dominant big man (Mason) plus some scoring from our guards (Seth). It's not a perfect analog, to be sure, but that team was actually our best three point shooting team of that ten year span, shooting an amazing 39.9% as a team with 18.7 attempts per game! No one on this team will be as good or as prolific as Seth (43.1% on over 200 attempts!), so I'd be surprised if we got up to that percentage. However, since we'll probably play at a slightly faster pace than that team, I bet the attempts are going to remain pretty similar. I also don't think we can match that team percentage (Ryan and Seth were insane from outside that year . . . what could've been if Ryan had stayed healthy instead of playing his way back into shape during the tourney?), but I'd be surprised if we slipped below 37% as a team. Only the '08-'09 team went lower (3.48%), and that team had Gerald (a mediocre at best) shooter take over 100 and the offense basically had to shoot threes because there were no options for scoring in the paint. With Jahlil holding it down in the middle, we won't need a mediocre shooter to take that many shots, so I expect our team average to be strong, even if it isn't overwhelmingly good.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Out of curiosity, I looked up our ten year average for 3PA per game. It would probably have been better to figure out our 3PA's per possession, but I don't know offhand where I could find that. In the past ten years, our highest number for 3PA per game was 24 in '07-'08 (our fastest paced team of this span). Interestingly, our lowest came just the year before in '06-'07 with only 15.76 (which shouldn't be surprising given how slow our pace was and how bad that team was on offense by Duke standards). Every other season was somewhere between 22.48 (last year) and 18.7 ('13) for an average of 20.63. I bet we end up just a touch below that average for this season, with somewhere between 18.5 and 20 3PA per game. The make-up of our team this coming year probably best resembles '12-'13 when we had a dominant big man (Mason) plus some scoring from our guards (Seth). It's not a perfect analog, to be sure, but that team was actually our best three point shooting team of that ten year span, shooting an amazing 39.9% as a team with 18.7 attempts per game! No one on this team will be as good or as prolific as Seth (43.1% on over 200 attempts!), so I'd be surprised if we got up to that percentage. However, since we'll probably play at a slightly faster pace than that team, I bet the attempts are going to remain pretty similar. I also don't think we can match that team percentage (Ryan and Seth were insane from outside that year . . . what could've been if Ryan had stayed healthy instead of playing his way back into shape during the tourney?), but I'd be surprised if we slipped below 37% as a team. Only the '08-'09 team went lower (3.48%), and that team had Gerald (a mediocre at best) shooter take over 100 and the offense basically had to shoot threes because there were no options for scoring in the paint. With Jahlil holding it down in the middle, we won't need a mediocre shooter to take that many shots, so I expect our team average to be strong, even if it isn't overwhelmingly good.

I think this is accurate. I don't think I'm being unrealistic in stating that Cook and Sulaimon have carte blanche on the 3pt shooting. Not too sure about the Joneses, but they seem like they will fire up a few a game. When Semi and Allen play pre-ACC, they will probably launch a few as well. Winslow will be opportunistic with the 3pt shot, so there's a few other chances.

18-20 a game sounds very reasonable, especially with like the Oak who will absolutely demand a double-team.

I'm gettin' more excited!

[BD80]

I think this is accurate. I don't think I'm being unrealistic in stating that Cook and Sulaimon have carte blanche on the 3pt shooting. Not too sure about the Joneses, but they seem like they will fire up a few a game. ...

A key will be to see who has the freedom to shoot 3s on a break. Every wing player will be expected to take an open three in the flow of the offense unless there is a clear lane to the basket or a clear passing lane to Jah in good post position.

[Newton_14]

I agree. Despite the offense's occasional lapse into "watch (insert star player's name) go one on one with the opposition," Coach K and the staff are usually excellent at getting good spacing on the court. We've been worried about three point shooting before and yet the team has generally been somewhere between solid to excellent at knocking down threes. I think this is because Duke usually has great spacing which leads to open, clean attempts. As others have noted, there's a good chance we take fewer threes this year (though probably not so few that we set any Duke records for fewest three's attempted), but hopefully those threes will come off of good ball movement and good spacing. I felt like we caught glimpses of that already in the CTC scrimmage. Matt Jones opened his three point shooting account off of a wide-open shot from the corner. Rasheed had a few wide open threes. And Tyus took and made a wide open three in transition, which whether or not he's a consistent shooter or not demonstrated that he is confident enough to take shots like that, at the very least. Quinn's threes were also off of good ball movement. Guys like JJ and Andre could make threes from NBA range when the defender was right in their face. I'm not sure we'll see that type of three point shooting from any of our guys, this season. However, I agree that we have plenty of guys who are good enough shooters to make open threes, which I hope we see a lot of this year.

Great post. I am replying only to the part I put in bold. Totally agree on your two key points. Point 1, and I wrote a lengthy post about this last season, is there are "Good Threes" and "Bad Threes", and pick any Duke team over the years with the 3 point line in play and a much higher percentage of the "Good Three's" found their way into the bottom of the net than did the "Bad Three's". There is always the exception, like a JJ or an Andre, but it is a formula that holds true game over game, year over year. I won't go into the details here as I did in that prior mentioned post on what constitutes a good three vs a bad three, but the good ones go in more often than not and the bad ones miss more often than not no matter how many good shooters we have in any given year.

Point 2- I made note in last Saturday's CTC that when we took good three's we made a lot of them, and when we took bad three's we actually missed all of them.

I am confident this team has enough capable shooters that when we move the ball around properly and take good three's we are going to make a high percentage of them, and when we take bad three's we are going to miss a high percentage of them.

There will always be the outlier game or two where we can throw the ball in the ocean no matter what, but if this team executes properly, spaces, properly, and moves the ball properly, they will get and make a good number of three's.

They will not however, be a "live or die by the 3" team even though the talking heads at ESPN will still trot out that tired mantra even on nights when Jahlil goes for 25 and we get a gazillion points in the paint from him and Amile in the post, and from Rasheed, Winslow, Matt, Quinn, and Tyus attacking the rim and scoring.

[Henderson]

I watched the replay and didn't see any double-teams on Jahlil when he got the ball down low. His ability to spot the open shooter for a three and pass the ball out when that inevitably happens will be important. I suspect a lot of game planning by opposing coaches will be to make Duke hit jumpers; don't let Okafor dominate offensively. With our depth at the perimeter for threes and slashers, I like the box that puts opposing teams in. But it starts with Jahlil passing out of those double and triple teams he'll see.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I watched the replay and didn't see any double-teams on Jahlil when he got the ball down low. His ability to spot the open shooter for a three and pass the ball out when that inevitably happens will be important. I suspect a lot of game planning by opposing coaches will be to make Duke hit jumpers; don't let Okafor dominate offensively. With our depth at the perimeter for threes and slashers, I like the box that puts opposing teams in. But it starts with Jahlil passing out of those double and triple teams he'll see.
I predict double teams on Jahlil will yield lots of scoring opportunities for Amile on the weak side this year.