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plimnko
10-19-2014, 12:24 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/18/jabari-parker-drives-spins-and-dunks-to-seal-preseason-win-for-bucks-video/

Billy Dat
10-19-2014, 09:27 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/18/jabari-parker-drives-spins-and-dunks-to-seal-preseason-win-for-bucks-video/

Great clip, that's Anthony Bennett he posterized!

flyingdutchdevil
10-20-2014, 09:59 AM
Great clip, that's Anthony Bennett he posterized!

Jabari's weight loss has really provided him with extra agility. He looks good.

Also, Jabari joins 47 other NBAers who have posterized Anthony Bennett. Congrats Jabari!

NSDukeFan
10-20-2014, 07:08 PM
Jabari's weight loss has really provided him with extra agility. He looks good.

Also, Jabari joins 47 other NBAers who have posterized Anthony Bennett. Congrats Jabari!

I don't know that Bennett played enough minutes last year to get posterized more than a dozen times. I am interested to,see how he and Otto Porter do this year.

Billy Dat
10-20-2014, 10:38 PM
Hey now! Watching Jabari have his way with my Knicks tonight, and the amount of Dukies in the NBA talk starting to sprinkle around the board, I thought it would be fun to get this thread started.

Jason Evans posted a good recent update about Andre Dawkins' attempts to make the Miami Heat, so I think its good to focus on guys currently fighting for roster spots. There is a chance that we'll have 20 alums playing in the NBA this year, incredible.

Seth Curry - he seems destined to start the year in the D-League with Orlando's Erie Bayhawks. He played with Orlando this summer and is with the team during camp but has not been getting PT in these preseason games. Still, he's in the mix for a call up at anytime. This is a big year for him, still clinging to the NBA dream before maybe seeking his playing career overseas if it doesn't happen here in 2014/15.

Shavlik Randolph - it looks like he's battling wiley veteran Earl Barron for the last spot on the Suns despite having a guaranteed contract for this year. Sounds like Barron has a leg up on him as of today per this article (http://arizonasports.com/41/1776253/Veteran-center-Earl-Barron-with-strong-case-to-make-Phoenix-Suns).

Lance Thomas - KD's injury in OKC has given Lance a glimmer of hope as he is getting preseason minutes with OKC. (http://www.nba.com/thunder/recap_timberwolves_141019)

Dahntay Jones - after not making a team last year, Dahntay may be the veteran in the locker room that Quin Snyder needs. (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/58537503-87/0-0-jazz-1-2-jones.html.csp)

Andre Dawkins - as pointed out earlier, Dre is turning heads in Miami. (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/heat-blog/sfl-miami-heat-norris-cole-s102014-story.html)

Did I miss anyone fighting for a spot?

Of course, we can always talk about the guys we know will be on teams this year:
Jabari Parker, Rodney Hood, Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, Miles Plumlee, Austin Rivers, Kyrie Irving, Kyle Singler, Gerald Henderson, JJ Redick, Josh McRoberts, Luol Deng, Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy, Elton Brand

sagegrouse
10-21-2014, 08:18 AM
Nice quote from Kyrie on a Washington Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2014/10/16/lebron-jamess-latest-super-team-more-about-the-game-than-the-show/) on the the Cavs:


“For us, it’s always keeping our egos and who we are and what makes us us, what makes us special,” Irving said. “I got that approach from [Duke and Team USA Coach Mike Kzryzewski]. He never wanted us to check our ego at the door. He never wanted us to forget who we were. We’re playing with one of the greatest players to play this game, but there is going to be some sacrifices that we all have to make. And I’m completely fine with that. As long as we have one common goal and that’s to win a championship. I know that’s what I’m in for and I know that’s what he’s in for and all the guys here are in for.”

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2014, 09:30 AM
Hey now! Watching Jabari have his way with my Knicks tonight, and the amount of Dukies in the NBA talk starting to sprinkle around the board, I thought it would be fun to get this thread started.

Bill Simmons is back from him suspension with an NBA preview: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-annual-nba-league-pass-rankings-part-1/

It's worth reading - not because it's Simmons - but because of of Lowe and this money quote (Simmons):


I am picking November 26, 2014, as the day when everyone collectively says, “Wait, how the hell did Wiggins go ahead of Jabari in the draft?????” The following is true: Cleveland had the first overall pick in the 2013 and 2014 drafts, but if you redid those drafts, the two Milwaukee guys (Giannis and Jabari) would go first. Bucks fans should be thrilled. They might not be as thrilled three years from now when those guys are playing for the Seattle Bucks … but right now, they should be thrilled.

An NBA game hasn't even been played, but clearly the perception of Wiggins has changed. Jabari, on the other hand, lost some weight, became quicker, and has added a few moves to his arsenal. He still can't guard his own shadow, but one step at a time!

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2014, 09:32 AM
I don't know that Bennett played enough minutes last year to get posterized more than a dozen times. I am interested to,see how he and Otto Porter do this year.

Why do you have to always be so rational? ;)

Billy Dat
10-21-2014, 10:01 AM
An NBA game hasn't even been played, but clearly the perception of Wiggins has changed. Jabari, on the other hand, lost some weight, became quicker, and has added a few moves to his arsenal. He still can't guard his own shadow, but one step at a time!

The difference between the Jabari I saw last week and last night was perceptible. He had the mentality that he was going to abuse whomever was defending him and, when that man was former Baylor Bear and Duke-gets-all-the-calls-victim Quincy "charge" Acy, he did abuse them. He is thinner and its making him very hard to deal with. I assume guys will start to sag off to make him hit jumpers as he is getting to the rim very easily. Very exciting.

It's so easy to fall in love during preseason, but the Bucks are fun to watch. The Greek Freak is legit, OJ Mayo looks like he's in shape and has the 3 game working to keep the floor spaced. Kendall Marshall and John Henson are there to remind everyone of what could of been for the Heels in 2011-2012, maybe wild man Larry Sanders will be back at some point to help Henson in the paint, and Iron Curtain villian-look-alike Ersan Ilyasova is always lurching, I mean lurking. FYI, I know people either hate or like both Simmons and Jalen Rose, but the video previews they are doing for each team (on YouTube or Grantland.com) are a lot of fun (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-and-jalens-2014-15-nba-preview-milwaukee-bucks-and-boston-celtics/). They are about 20 minutes each, so they go into great depth, and have tons of cool animations, recurring segments, etc. I watched the one on the Bucks last night and, per the quote flyingdutch provided above, there is speculation that the Bucks will move to Seattle based on some language in the deal the owners have with the NBA. Apparently, the owners need to build a new arena in Milwaukee within a year or else the NBA has the right to buy the team back for under $600MM at which point they could turn around and sell it to a Seattle group for more like $1.5B with the other NBA owners splitting the overage equally, meaning each would be in for a $30MM windfall. Hmmmm.

JasonEvans
10-21-2014, 12:12 PM
The Greek Freak is legit

Hate to distract from the Dukies in the NBA, but I just could not resist mentioning Giannis Antetokounmpo. He grew another 2 inches over the summer and now stands 6-11. The Bucks, led by the perhaps insane and certainly power-mad head coach Jason Kidd, are considering using Giannis as their PG. His length and size would give other teams fits! Milwaukee indeed seems to have a bright future ahead of them.

-Jason "I've got 4 tickets (5th row, center court!) to see the Bucks when they come to Atlanta over the Christmas break" Evans

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2014, 12:22 PM
Hate to distract from the Dukies in the NBA, but I just could not resist mentioning Giannis Antetokounmpo. He grew another 2 inches over the summer and now stands 6-11. The Bucks, led by the perhaps insane and certainly power-mad head coach Jason Kidd, are considering using Giannis as their PG. His length and size would give other teams fits! Milwaukee indeed seems to have a bright future ahead of them.

-Jason "I've got 4 tickets (5th row, center court!) to see the Bucks when they come to Atlanta over the Christmas break" Evans

I'm not sure Jabari could have ended up on a team that fit his skillset better. The Greek Freak, Sanders, Henson, and Brandon Knight are all above-average defenders (or in the Greek's case, can easily be). Kendall Marshall is top 5 in the NBA at passing (Kendall was #2 after Chris Paul in assists per 48 min) but can't score. OJ Mayo is a streaky shooter who is an ideal 6th man. Basically, this team has a lot of intangibles without scoring. Enter Jabari Parker, an exceptional scorer, really good rebounder, and abysmal defense. The best part is Jabari's weakness will be masked by the great defenders the Bucks already have!

I'd be shocked if Jabari didn't win ROY. ROY prioritizes scoring, and we know Jabari can do that.

MChambers
10-21-2014, 12:36 PM
I'm not sure Jabari could have ended up on a team that fit his skillset better. The Greek Freak, Sanders, Henson, and Brandon Knight are all above-average defenders (or in the Greek's case, can easily be). Kendall Marshall is top 5 in the NBA at passing (Kendall was #2 after Chris Paul in assists per 48 min) but can't score. OJ Mayo is a streaky shooter who is an ideal 6th man. Basically, this team has a lot of intangibles without scoring. Enter Jabari Parker, an exceptional scorer, really good rebounder, and abysmal defense. The best part is Jabari's weakness will be masked by the great defenders the Bucks already have!

I'd be shocked if Jabari didn't win ROY. ROY prioritizes scoring, and we know Jabari can do that.
Of course, you didn't say that Marshall is an above-average defender. Having him and Jabari on the court at the same time could be a problem on defense.

CDu
10-21-2014, 12:38 PM
Nice quote from Kyrie on a Washington Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2014/10/16/lebron-jamess-latest-super-team-more-about-the-game-than-the-show/) on the the Cavs:

Hopefully he and his Cavs teammates work a bit on defense (especially the pick and roll). They had a lot of trouble with Derrick Rose last night. Rose dropped 30 points (on 12-18 shooting) in just 24 minutes, which included this debacle of a defensive effort by Irving and the Cavs:

http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2374018/roserev.0.0.gif

The Cavs did get the win thanks largely to the Bulls treating it as a preseason game (no Butler, Rose played just 24 minutes), and Irving did have a very strong game offensively. But it certainly is a glimpse into the challenges that Coach Blatt faces with Irving and Love (and Waiters) on the defensive end of the floor. If they are going to beat the Bulls and the Spurs in the playoffs, they are going to have to learn to handle the pick and roll MUCH better than that.

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2014, 12:50 PM
Hopefully he and his Cavs teammates work a bit on defense (especially the pick and roll). They had a lot of trouble with Derrick Rose last night. Rose dropped 30 points (on 12-18 shooting) in just 24 minutes, which included this debacle of a defensive effort by Irving and the Cavs:

http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2374018/roserev.0.0.gif

The Cavs did get the win thanks largely to the Bulls treating it as a preseason game (no Butler, Rose played just 24 minutes), and Irving did have a very strong game offensively. But it certainly is a glimpse into the challenges that Coach Blatt faces with Irving and Love (and Waiters) on the defensive end of the floor. If they are going to beat the Bulls and the Spurs in the playoffs, they are going to have to learn to handle the pick and roll MUCH better than that.

And I have a feeling that's all the Cavs will work on. Kyrie is still a sub-par defender. The way Rose man-handled Waiters and Irving was impressive (equally as impressive as Irving man-handling the Bulls), but it was terrible D.

Offensively, the Cavs are arguably the best team right now, and this is despite a lack of chemistry. Irving, Love, and Lebron are all top 15 players offensively (you can argue top 10), and Waiters is easily the best fourth option on offense in the league. Throw in Mike Miller and (probably) Ray Allen, and that's pretty nasty.

Defensively, the team has Lebron, Varejao, and Shawn Marion. When Mike Miller is your fourth best defender, that is not a good defense. Irving, Love, and Waiters are all mediocre-at-best defenders, and at times horrific (Waiters all the time, Kyrie a lot of of time, Love a good chunk of the time).

IMO, I'm convinced Waiters or Thompson will be traded in January for 1-2 defensive players, probably a 3-and-D and/or a rim-protector.

CDu
10-21-2014, 01:28 PM
And I have a feeling that's all the Cavs will work on. Kyrie is still a sub-par defender. The way Rose man-handled Waiters and Irving was impressive (equally as impressive as Irving man-handling the Bulls), but it was terrible D.

Offensively, the Cavs are arguably the best team right now, and this is despite a lack of chemistry. Irving, Love, and Lebron are all top 15 players offensively (you can argue top 10), and Waiters is easily the best fourth option on offense in the league. Throw in Mike Miller and (probably) Ray Allen, and that's pretty nasty.

Defensively, the team has Lebron, Varejao, and Shawn Marion. When Mike Miller is your fourth best defender, that is not a good defense. Irving, Love, and Waiters are all mediocre-at-best defenders, and at times horrific (Waiters all the time, Kyrie a lot of of time, Love a good chunk of the time).

IMO, I'm convinced Waiters or Thompson will be traded in January for 1-2 defensive players, probably a 3-and-D and/or a rim-protector.

Yeah, certainly offensively the Heat will be as good as anyone in the league. They should get to 100 points in their sleep against most teams, with only a handful of teams capable of holding them below 100 on any given night. The test of Blatt's coaching will be on the other end of the floor for sure. You've noted the Cavs' best defensive players, but Varejao and Marion are not nearly as good defensively as they used to be, and both are more or less non-entities on offense now. And even James has seemed to get less interested in defense the last year or two. And after those three, as you hinted, the Cavs are BAAAAAD defensively.

It will be interesting to see how the season progresses. Can Blatt work magic (smoke and mirrors?) on defense? Or can they make a trade for the right pieces? Waiters and Thompson certainly seem like the most viable candidates. The Cavs' role players are currently all-offense/no-defense guys. To win the title, I agree that they'll probably need to add a couple of stalwart defenders (one inside, one outside).

But one way or the other they will have to play the pick and roll better. They allowed 11 shots at the rim for Rose last night (again, in just 24 minutes). Granted, most teams won't have anyone as good as Rose. But the Bulls obviously do, and the Spurs have multiple strong pick and roll players. The Thunder also have a pretty deadly player in the pick and roll. The concern is that the Cavs are going to have Love and Irving on the floor together a lot, and that's currently a bad combination for handling the pick and roll. So either those two are going to have to improve a lot relative to their career norms, or Blatt is going to have to work some magic with the team defense. That, or they'll need to hope to just outscore everyone.

flyingdutchdevil
10-21-2014, 01:46 PM
Yeah, certainly offensively the Heat will be as good as anyone in the league. They should get to 100 points in their sleep against most teams, with only a handful of teams capable of holding them below 100 on any given night. The test of Blatt's coaching will be on the other end of the floor for sure. You've noted the Cavs' best defensive players, but Varejao and Marion are not nearly as good defensively as they used to be, and both are more or less non-entities on offense now. And even James has seemed to get less interested in defense the last year or two. And after those three, as you hinted, the Cavs are BAAAAAD defensively.

It will be interesting to see how the season progresses. Can Blatt work magic (smoke and mirrors?) on defense? Or can they make a trade for the right pieces? Waiters and Thompson certainly seem like the most viable candidates. The Cavs' role players are currently all-offense/no-defense guys. To win the title, I agree that they'll probably need to add a couple of stalwart defenders (one inside, one outside).

But one way or the other they will have to play the pick and roll better. They allowed 11 shots at the rim for Rose last night (again, in just 24 minutes). Granted, most teams won't have anyone as good as Rose. But the Bulls obviously do, and the Spurs have multiple strong pick and roll players. The Thunder also have a pretty deadly player in the pick and roll. The concern is that the Cavs are going to have Love and Irving on the floor together a lot, and that's currently a bad combination for handling the pick and roll. So either those two are going to have to improve a lot relative to their career norms, or Blatt is going to have to work some magic with the team defense. That, or they'll need to hope to just outscore everyone.

My guess is they'll do this for the first half of the season. Blatt and Lebron, the two most important pieces, know the value of defense and will push that as much as possible. Just by scoring points, the Cavs will have a top 3 record by Christmas.

The problem, as you've suggested, is the playoffs, where pick-and-rolls / defense are significantly more prevalent. The good news is that there are so many defensive big men who can be acquired for the right price (Tyson Chandler, Larry Sanders, Asik, Greg Smith, Hibert, Horford is apparently on the trading block). Given, most are expensive, but they will be instant upgrades.

Waiters - if he can score ~12 ppg and provide a good locker room presence (first is easily achievable, second is much more difficult) - can easily provide a nice trading chip. He's loaded with potential, but also loaded with instability. Thompson is an athletic dude. He isn't that big. He's bouncy. He can't shoot. He can play mediocre D (probably middle of the pack on this Cavs team. Again, not good). I don't see the Cavs trying to trade him because the value just isn't there.

Des Esseintes
10-21-2014, 01:58 PM
And I have a feeling that's all the Cavs will work on. Kyrie is still a sub-par defender. The way Rose man-handled Waiters and Irving was impressive (equally as impressive as Irving man-handling the Bulls), but it was terrible D.

Offensively, the Cavs are arguably the best team right now, and this is despite a lack of chemistry. Irving, Love, and Lebron are all top 15 players offensively (you can argue top 10), and Waiters is easily the best fourth option on offense in the league. Throw in Mike Miller and (probably) Ray Allen, and that's pretty nasty.

Defensively, the team has Lebron, Varejao, and Shawn Marion. When Mike Miller is your fourth best defender, that is not a good defense. Irving, Love, and Waiters are all mediocre-at-best defenders, and at times horrific (Waiters all the time, Kyrie a lot of of time, Love a good chunk of the time).

IMO, I'm convinced Waiters or Thompson will be traded in January for 1-2 defensive players, probably a 3-and-D and/or a rim-protector.

Even if we are judging only by offense, whomever you consider Portland's fourth option, Batum or Matthews, is better than Waiters. Diaw in San Antonio brings more to the table as well. After that, Waiters is probably the best of the rest, though. That's not bad.

tommy
10-21-2014, 02:14 PM
Has missed all of training camp with a pretty badly strained hamstring. (Didn't we used to call that a 'pulled hamstring?'). Just as that healed and he was ready to go, he strained the other hamstring (though not nearly as badly) and he's out again. Fortunately for Ryan, the Lakers like what he did for them last year and their roster, thanks to Kobe's ridiculous contract extension, is terrible. Unfortunately, several of the decent players they have, including this year's #1 draft choice, play the 4 position primarily.

CDu
10-21-2014, 02:43 PM
Even if we are judging only by offense, whomever you consider Portland's fourth option, Batum or Matthews, is better than Waiters. Diaw in San Antonio brings more to the table as well. After that, Waiters is probably the best of the rest, though. That's not bad.

Yeah, I think the team context has to factor in as well. Waiters is more of a lead guard than an off-ball player. But with three ball-dominant players in front of him in the rotation, I'd argue that he might not even be the best choice as 4th option on the Cavs.

Conversely, he might be the third option (battling with Butler and Noah) if he played for the Bulls. Just depends on the system you're in.

As far as 4th options go, I would say the following players top Waiters:
- Parsons/Nelson (Dallas)
- Diaw/Leonard (San Antonio)
- Redick/Jordan (LA Clippers)
- Green/Morris/Thomas (Phoenix)
- Batum/Matthews (Portland)
- Gortat/Nene/Miller/Pierce (Washington)

And the following are comparable:
- Henderson/Neal (Charlotte)
- Drummond (Detroit)
- Williams/Johnson/Valenciunas (Toronto)

Of course, that's kind of splitting hairs, because Cleveland clearly has the best 1st option in James and best 3rd option in Irving, and possibly the best (at least top-3) 2nd option in Love. So it's okay that Waiters isn't really the best 4th option - they'll still be REALLY good offensively.

Des Esseintes
10-21-2014, 04:39 PM
Yeah, I think the team context has to factor in as well. Waiters is more of a lead guard than an off-ball player. But with three ball-dominant players in front of him in the rotation, I'd argue that he might not even be the best choice as 4th option on the Cavs.

Conversely, he might be the third option (battling with Butler and Noah) if he played for the Bulls. Just depends on the system you're in.

As far as 4th options go, I would say the following players top Waiters:
- Parsons/Nelson (Dallas)
- Diaw/Leonard (San Antonio)
- Redick/Jordan (LA Clippers)
- Green/Morris/Thomas (Phoenix)
- Batum/Matthews (Portland)
- Gortat/Nene/Miller/Pierce (Washington)

And the following are comparable:
- Henderson/Neal (Charlotte)
- Drummond (Detroit)
- Williams/Johnson/Valenciunas (Toronto)

Of course, that's kind of splitting hairs, because Cleveland clearly has the best 1st option in James and best 3rd option in Irving, and possibly the best (at least top-3) 2nd option in Love. So it's okay that Waiters isn't really the best 4th option - they'll still be REALLY good offensively.
I agree with almost all your amendments. Phoenix is probably my only quibble. I am skeptical Green can shoot as well again as he did in last year's career season, and minus that shooting he is much less valuable.

Billy Dat
10-21-2014, 05:08 PM
Kidd compares Jabari to Grant
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/10/21/bucks-rookie-jabari-parker-strives-to-become-total-package-player/

“Everyone will talk about his scoring, his athletic ability, but what I like is that he tries to make the right plays to his teammates,” Kidd said. “He passes the ball, it’s not all about scoring. He wants to win. He cheers his teammates on. That’s kind of cool to see when you’re 19 years old and you have a lot of people asking you to do different things. He’s all about doing his job, and that’s getting better.”

flyingdutchdevil
10-22-2014, 08:54 AM
...grow out your facial hair.

McBoB, Shavlik Randolph, and Miles Plumlee are all rocking the beard.

Okay, McBoB kinda looks like a homeless man.

IrishDevil
10-22-2014, 10:07 AM
...grow out your facial hair.

McBoB, Shavlik Randolph, and Miles Plumlee are all rocking the beard.

Okay, McBoB kinda looks like a homeless man.

As long as he doesn't look like he lives in a van down by the river, I would guess he'll be fine.

4390

JasonEvans
10-22-2014, 01:39 PM
...grow out your facial hair.

McBoB, Shavlik Randolph, and Miles Plumlee are all rocking the beard.

Okay, McBoB kinda looks like a homeless man.

This thread is useless without pictures.

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/115/files/2014/09/josh-mcroberts-nba-miami-heat-media-day-e1411944641166.jpg http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2F2014%5C04%5C06%5C483143 781.jpg http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2F2014\10\21\457631060.jp g

tommy
10-22-2014, 02:23 PM
As long as he doesn't look like he lives in a van down by the river, I would guess he'll be fine.

4390

I can't see. Is that Bill Shakespeare over there?

flyingdutchdevil
10-22-2014, 02:32 PM
This thread is useless without pictures.

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/115/files/2014/09/josh-mcroberts-nba-miami-heat-media-day-e1411944641166.jpg http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2F2014%5C04%5C06%5C483143 781.jpg http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2F2014\10\21\457631060.jp g

Wow. Boozer is also rocking the beard. True statement.

In terms of cleanliness on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being a count in th 1800s and 1 being a Russian villian), the beards are as follows:

Boozer: 10
Plumdog Millionaire: 9
Randolph: 7
McBoB: -2.1

kAzE
10-22-2014, 03:11 PM
So I got into an argument with a co-worker while we were having drinks over who will be better this year between Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving. This ended up turning into a $50 wager over who posts the higher PER this season. (Thank goodness PER basically ignores defense)

I'm was fairly confident about the bet at the time, but the addition of 2 superstars could cause a pretty major dip in usage for Kyrie . . . but I still got this bet in the bag, right? Irving's PERs over the last 3 years were 21, 20, and 20. Lillard posted a 16 as a rookie and then 18 this past year. ESPN rates Kyrie as the #23 player in the NBA, and Lillard hasn't been listed yet, meaning he's in the top 18 on ESPN's list. Kyrie's 2 years younger though, he definitely still has room to grow. Lillard is 24, he's pretty much almost at his prime.

Good or bad bet?

luvdahops
10-22-2014, 03:34 PM
Wow. Boozer is also rocking the beard. True statement.

In terms of cleanliness on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being a count in th 1800s and 1 being a Russian villian), the beards are as follows:

Boozer: 10
Plumdog Millionaire: 9
Randolph: 7
McBoB: -2.1

Boozer has had his for a few years, perhaps trying to make up in facial hair what he's lost in lift and effectiveness near the basket. I say this as a Bulls season ticket holder.

When the Bulls were playing the Bobcats last year, my wife referred to McBob's look as "later Jesus", as he was sporting shoulder length hair in addition to the motley beard.

flyingdutchdevil
10-22-2014, 03:46 PM
So I got into an argument with a co-worker while we were having drinks over who will be better this year between Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving. This ended up turning into a $50 wager over who posts the higher PER this season. (Thank goodness PER basically ignores defense)

I'm was fairly confident about the bet at the time, but the addition of 2 superstars could cause a pretty major dip in usage for Kyrie . . . but I still got this bet in the bag, right? Irving's PERs over the last 3 years were 21, 20, and 20. Lillard posted a 16 as a rookie and then 18 this past year. ESPN rates Kyrie as the #23 player in the NBA, and Lillard hasn't been listed yet, meaning he's in the top 18 on ESPN's list. Kyrie's 2 years younger though, he definitely still has room to grow. Lillard is 24, he's pretty much almost at his prime.

Good or bad bet?

Lillard's D is very comparable with Kyrie's D.

Good bet. Lillard's FG% will not be as good as Kyrie's. Not because Lillard is a worse shooter but rather because of LBJ. If Kyrie focuses, he can join the rare 50/40/90 club. That would be nasty.

Billy Dat
10-22-2014, 04:00 PM
So I got into an argument with a co-worker while we were having drinks over who will be better this year between Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving. This ended up turning into a $50 wager over who posts the higher PER this season. (Thank goodness PER basically ignores defense)

I'm was fairly confident about the bet at the time, but the addition of 2 superstars could cause a pretty major dip in usage for Kyrie . . . but I still got this bet in the bag, right? Irving's PERs over the last 3 years were 21, 20, and 20. Lillard posted a 16 as a rookie and then 18 this past year. ESPN rates Kyrie as the #23 player in the NBA, and Lillard hasn't been listed yet, meaning he's in the top 18 on ESPN's list. Kyrie's 2 years younger though, he definitely still has room to grow. Lillard is 24, he's pretty much almost at his prime.

Good or bad bet?

This writer makes the case that PER and usage rate have a relationship

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/9/17/4666892/nba-stats-per-plus-minus-spurs-heat-thunder

The presence of Lebron makes me think Kyrie's usage rate will go down. I think you may be sweating this one out a little, but it will be fun to watch.

CDu
10-22-2014, 04:07 PM
So I got into an argument with a co-worker while we were having drinks over who will be better this year between Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving. This ended up turning into a $50 wager over who posts the higher PER this season. (Thank goodness PER basically ignores defense)

I'm was fairly confident about the bet at the time, but the addition of 2 superstars could cause a pretty major dip in usage for Kyrie . . . but I still got this bet in the bag, right? Irving's PERs over the last 3 years were 21, 20, and 20. Lillard posted a 16 as a rookie and then 18 this past year. ESPN rates Kyrie as the #23 player in the NBA, and Lillard hasn't been listed yet, meaning he's in the top 18 on ESPN's list. Kyrie's 2 years younger though, he definitely still has room to grow. Lillard is 24, he's pretty much almost at his prime.

Good or bad bet?

Irving's count stats should go down but his efficiency should go up (assuming he buys into his role and doesn't try to force it).

I don't think PER is the best measure of performance, but there is a good chance you win this bet based on PER.

_Gary
10-22-2014, 06:21 PM
So I got into an argument with a co-worker while we were having drinks over who will be better this year between Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving. This ended up turning into a $50 wager over who posts the higher PER this season. (Thank goodness PER basically ignores defense)

I'm was fairly confident about the bet at the time, but the addition of 2 superstars could cause a pretty major dip in usage for Kyrie . . . but I still got this bet in the bag, right? Irving's PERs over the last 3 years were 21, 20, and 20. Lillard posted a 16 as a rookie and then 18 this past year. ESPN rates Kyrie as the #23 player in the NBA, and Lillard hasn't been listed yet, meaning he's in the top 18 on ESPN's list. Kyrie's 2 years younger though, he definitely still has room to grow. Lillard is 24, he's pretty much almost at his prime.

Good or bad bet?

Great bet! Kyrie's the best PG in the league next to Chris Paul, so you have no worries. It's not even that close with him and Lillard. He'll shine just like he did this summer. Count on it.

CDu
10-23-2014, 10:07 AM
Great bet! Kyrie's the best PG in the league next to Chris Paul, so you have no worries. It's not even that close with him and Lillard. He'll shine just like he did this summer. Count on it.

I'm gonna disagree with the bolded part. Along with Paul, I'd put Parker, Westbrook, Curry, Wall, and a healthy and rust-free Rose over Irving (Rose torched him the other night for example (http://www.blogabull.com/2014/10/22/7034061/derrick-roses-defensive-domination-of-kyrie-irving)). I might even take Lillard over Irving too. And I'd put guys like Lowry, Thomas, and Conley in the discussion with Irving as well.

Irving still has a lot to prove, in my opinion. His defense is among the worst in the NBA (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1). He is fantastic against lesser players (as evidenced by his dominant play against the overmatched guards at the FIBA World Cup). But that hasn't translated (yet) to his matchups against the NBA's best.

Maybe he makes the jump this year. As a Duke guy, I hope he does (though as a Chicago guy, I'm okay if he doesn't ;)). But I think it's way premature to call Irving the second-best PG in the NBA right now.

I expect Irving and the Cavs to have a great year, thanks in large part to the addition of James and Love to take the pressure off of him. But when he faces the top PGs, I won't be shocked if he struggles as he has in the past.

_Gary
10-23-2014, 10:18 AM
I'm gonna disagree with the bolded part. Along with Paul, I'd put Parker, Westbrook, Curry, Wall, and a healthy and rust-free Rose over Irving (Rose torched him the other night for example (http://www.blogabull.com/2014/10/22/7034061/derrick-roses-defensive-domination-of-kyrie-irving)). I might even take Lillard over Irving too. And I'd put guys like Lowry, Thomas, and Conley in the discussion with Irving as well.

Irving still has a lot to prove, in my opinion. His defense is among the worst in the NBA (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1). He is fantastic against lesser players (as evidenced by his dominant play against the overmatched guards at the FIBA World Cup). But that hasn't translated (yet) to his matchups against the NBA's best.

Maybe he makes the jump this year. As a Duke guy, I hope he does (though as a Chicago guy, I'm okay if he doesn't ;)). But I think it's way premature to call Irving the second-best PG in the NBA right now.

I expect Irving and the Cavs to have a great year, thanks in large part to the addition of James and Love to take the pressure off of him. But when he faces the top PGs, I won't be shocked if he struggles as he has in the past.

We will have to agree to disagree. I think Kyrie is going to keep getting better on the defensive end (he was solid during the World Cup), although there's no denying that has been a weak spot. I know guys like Rose can bully their way through him, but then again that's 90% of what Rose does anyhow. Without his bully-drive to the right he's got very little else on the offensive end, so I'm not going to judge Kyrie's ability to defend on Monday night's game (which I watched in its entirety). And for the record, I think Rose was clearly more amped up for that game than Kyrie was and I don't think he's going to duplicate that performance on a nightly basis - especially shooting from deep. But regardless, I'll take Kyrie and what he can offer, in particular his ability to take over in the 4th quarter and hit big shots in the clutch, over the other guys you mentioned, minus Chris Paul. Parker's not getting any younger, Westbrook is inconsistent and can be a ball hog deluxe, Curry is a great shooter but his defense in the World Cup was much worse than Kyrie's, Wall simply isn't close, and Rose is somewhat one-dimensional on the offensive end. :cool:

I'm looking forward to Kyrie proving a lot of people wrong this season. The only legit concern with him is injuries. That is something to worry about and if he's injured significantly again this year then much of what I've written has to be scaled back.

CDu
10-23-2014, 10:23 AM
We will have to agree to disagree. I think Kyrie is going to keep getting better on the defensive end (he was solid during the World Cup), although there's no denying that has been a weak spot. I know guys like Rose can bully their way through him, but then again that's 90% of what Rose does anyhow. Without his bully-drive to the right he's got very little else on the offensive end, so I'm not going to judge Kyrie's ability to defend on Monday night's game (which I watched in its entirety). And for the record, I think Rose was clearly more amped up for that game than Kyrie was and I don't think he's going to duplicate that performance on a nightly basis - especially shooting from deep. But regardless, I'll take Kyrie and what he can offer, in particular his ability to take over in the 4th quarter and hit big shots in the clutch, over the other guys you mentioned, minus Chris Paul. Parker's not getting any younger, Westbrook is inconsistent and can be a ball hog deluxe, Curry is a great shooter but his defense in the World Cup was much worse than Kyrie's, Wall simply isn't close, and Rose is somewhat one-dimensional on the offensive end. :cool:

I'm looking forward to Kyrie proving a lot of people wrong this season. The only legit concern with him is injuries. That is something to worry about and if he's injured significantly again this year then much of what I've written has to be scaled back.

Yep, we'll have to agree to disagree on pretty much all of this.

_Gary
10-23-2014, 10:51 AM
Yep, we'll have to agree to disagree on pretty much all of this.

I figured as much. No problems, buddy. :)

JasonEvans
10-23-2014, 01:56 PM
Speaking of Mr. Irving, I just had to link this sweet between-the-legs pass to Kevin Love.


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/FB89EFEAC71136878631944118272_26c9f5ac556.5.1.8674 533888576543289.mp4

-Jason "Kyrie could really pile up the assists this year with KLove and LBJ on the break with him" Evans

AIRFORCEDUKIE
10-23-2014, 02:53 PM
The Heat just made some more cuts and are down to 16 players. Andre made the almost final 16 so it would seem that tommorows game is pretty much the biggest game of his life. http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/1212/article/p2p-81757942/ This is the link to the story, the other player on the chopping block is a center with some upside. So it will come down to what Spo feels like he needs more, a shooter or a big man. Many of the pundits here in South Florida feel like he will go with a big man. However, I think they need shooting more as they have been more than awful all preseason from three. As a partial season ticket holder via the All You Can Heat package, Im hoping he makes the squad and I can cheer for a team with three Dukies on it.

Billy Dat
10-23-2014, 02:58 PM
The Heat just made some more cuts and are down to 16 players. Andre made the almost final 16 so it would seem that tommorows game is pretty much the biggest game of his life. http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/1212/article/p2p-81757942/ This is the link to the story, the other player on the chopping block is a center with some upside. So it will come down to what Spo feels like he needs more, a shooter or a big man. Many of the pundits here in South Florida feel like he will go with a big man. However, I think they need shooting more as they have been more than awful all preseason from three. As a partial season ticket holder via the All You Can Heat package, Im hoping he makes the squad and I can cheer for a team with three Dukies on it.

The Heat cut Larry Drew? What are they thinking?!? :rolleyes:

It's funny, with Travis Wear hanging out with the Knicks, I find myself rooting for a former Heel turned Bruin. It's always hard to reconcile those pro allegiances with college grudges as I've found myself rooting for Ray Felton, Hubert Davis and others over the years.

Go Dre!!!! Surely the Arison/Duke connection will have some influence?

CDu
10-23-2014, 03:07 PM
The Heat just made some more cuts and are down to 16 players. Andre made the almost final 16 so it would seem that tommorows game is pretty much the biggest game of his life. http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/1212/article/p2p-81757942/ This is the link to the story, the other player on the chopping block is a center with some upside. So it will come down to what Spo feels like he needs more, a shooter or a big man. Many of the pundits here in South Florida feel like he will go with a big man. However, I think they need shooting more as they have been more than awful all preseason from three. As a partial season ticket holder via the All You Can Heat package, Im hoping he makes the squad and I can cheer for a team with three Dukies on it.

I think it is important to note that the Heat don't actually have to carry 15 players. They have to carry at least 13, and most teams carry 14 or 15. But not every team carries 15 players (usually for financial/cap reasons). So it is possible (though definitely not a given) that both Birch and Dawkins get cut. But regardless, the bolded part above is almost certainly true. Best of luck to Dawkins. Could he be the next Anthony Morrow (guy who wasn't consistently an impact player in college but made it in the NBA thanks to a translatable skill)?

AIRFORCEDUKIE
10-23-2014, 03:12 PM
I think it is important to note that the Heat don't actually have to carry 15 players. They have to carry at least 13, and most teams carry 14 or 15. But not every team carries 15 players (usually for financial/cap reasons). So it is possible (though definitely not a given) that both Birch and Dawkins get cut. But regardless, the bolded part above is almost certainly true. Best of luck to Dawkins. Could he be the next Anthony Morrow (guy who wasn't consistently an impact player in college but made it in the NBA)?

I will see if I can find the article later, but I read that the Heat were planning on keeping 15 due to injury concerns and the need to manage minutes for some aging players cough (Dwade) ahem. Also McBob, and Deng have been a little slow to get going due to injuries as well. But you have a good point they could both be cut. Heres hoping that Andre sticks, I think he can manage a Ray Allen type role, obviously not as pronounced but you never know.

CDu
10-23-2014, 03:15 PM
I will see if I can find the article later, but I read that the Heat were planning on keeping 15 due to injury concerns and the need to manage minutes for some aging players cough (Dwade) ahem. Also McBob, and Deng have been a little slow to get going due to injuries as well. But you have a good point they could both be cut. Heres hoping that Andre sticks, I think he can manage a Ray Allen type role, obviously not as pronounced but you never know.

Yeah, I'm by no means saying that the Heat are likely to cut two (or 3) more players. Just that it is possible. Given that the Heat have plenty of space below the luxury tax line (due to a certain player bailing on them), they may be more inclined to keep 15. For Dawkins' sake, let's hope so.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
10-23-2014, 03:19 PM
Yeah, I'm by no means saying that the Heat are likely to cut two (or 3) more players. Just that it is possible. Given that the Heat have plenty of space below the luxury tax line (due to a certain player bailing on them), they may be more inclined to keep 15. For Dawkins' sake, let's hope so.


Player? what Player? I am not familiar with this incident...

On a serious note, have you guys seen that awful Lebron Coming home Nike Commercial with his mother? She welcomes him home to Akron like she wasn't here in Miami getting arrested and acting a fool the whole time he was in Miami. The anger inside us Miami fans is building ever so slowly. To quote the commercials background music "Amen"

CDu
10-23-2014, 03:35 PM
Player? what Player? I am not familiar with this incident...

On a serious note, have you guys seen that awful Lebron Coming home Nike Commercial with his mother? She welcomes him home to Akron like she wasn't here in Miami getting arrested and acting a fool the whole time he was in Miami. The anger inside us Miami fans is building ever so slowly. To quote the commercials background music "Amen"

I think the funniest part of the "coming home" angle is that James later said in an interview that "if Miami had won the title last year, he'd probably still be there." So while the whole "coming home" presentation made for a nice story, it seems that the sincerity of that message was overstated. It seems pretty clear to me that "moving to a group with a better chance to win more titles" was the bigger driver of his decision, and "coming home" was just an added bonus.

That said, I have trouble feeling much sympathy for Miami fans in this case. Y'all lucked into the Big Three to begin with; seems only fair that the team most traumatized by The Decision 1.0 would be the team to benefit most from The Decision 2.0. Hard to feel sorry for you and your four straight Finals appearances.*

* Note: this is coming from a Bulls fan who got no sympathy for our plight post-Jordan. Them's the breaks.

theAlaskanBear
10-23-2014, 03:47 PM
https://twitter.com/IraHeatBeat/status/525325857087569920

seems like Andre might make the team as a 3-pt specialist.

Des Esseintes
10-23-2014, 05:30 PM
I think the funniest part of the "coming home" angle is that James later said in an interview that "if Miami had won the title last year, he'd probably still be there." So while the whole "coming home" presentation made for a nice story, it seems that the sincerity of that message was overstated. It seems pretty clear to me that "moving to a group with a better chance to win more titles" was the bigger driver of his decision, and "coming home" was just an added bonus.

That said, I have trouble feeling much sympathy for Miami fans in this case. Y'all lucked into the Big Three to begin with; seems only fair that the team most traumatized by The Decision 1.0 would be the team to benefit most from The Decision 2.0. Hard to feel sorry for you and your four straight Finals appearances.*

* Note: this is coming from a Bulls fan who got no sympathy for our plight post-Jordan. Them's the breaks.
Complete agreement. The argument that LeBron did more for Miami is waaay stronger than the argument Miami did more for LeBron. They had a great four years, brought about by free agency, and it has come to a close, again by free agency. LBJ observed the good camper rule of leaving the site better than he found it. Hard to see what the fanbase would have to feel resentful about.

sagegrouse
10-23-2014, 06:42 PM
Complete agreement. The argument that LeBron did more for Miami is waaay stronger than the argument Miami did more for LeBron. They had a great four years, brought about by free agency, and it has come to a close, again by free agency. LBJ observed the good camper rule of leaving the site better than he found it. Hard to see what the fanbase would have to feel resentful about.

I am still flabbergasted that LeBron returned to Cleveland after all the garbage they dumped on him four years ago and, also, because it's Cleveland, not NY, LA, or Miami. When you are the most famous player in the world's second most popular sport, I suppose you can have a pretty good life living anywhere. It's a different time from when, first, Wilt and then Kareem went to LA for the lifestyle as much as for the basketball.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
10-23-2014, 06:54 PM
Were not resentful and we are very happy about the four years we got. Also losing James and picking up Deng was really amazing and shows what a quality organization The Heat are. I think the part that we as Heat fans are resentful about is that when he came to Miami we were the bad guys and all Heat fans are all the sudden band wagoners. However now he goes back to The Cavs and the reaction was yay for Lebron and yay for Cleveland. Also Bron didnt talk to anyone with the Heat when he clearly knew he was going. Pat Riley could have made more moves had he had more time in my opinion. But Bron lead him on when he knew exactly what he was going to do. But we love the guy for the four years and cant complain. Some Heat fans may say different but tjats my opinion.

Billy Dat
10-24-2014, 10:15 AM
I think the part that we as Heat fans are resentful about is that when he came to Miami we were the bad guys and all Heat fans are all the sudden band wagoners. However now he goes back to The Cavs and the reaction was yay for Lebron and yay for Cleveland.

The move to Miami never would have resulted in the outpouring of bile if they hadn't had "The Decision" TV show and then that ridiculous pep rally. But, as an opposing fan, I never felt any ill will toward the Miami fans. I also heard Bill Simmons lauding the Miami fans for creating a great atmosphere during the Lebron era - every good team has tons of bandwagon fans.. I think the return was treated so warmly because people were happy for the maligned Cleveland fanbase. Miami is a great organization, as evidenced by their not making the same mistake with DWade that the Lakers made in overpaying Kobe.

Aside:
Although, on that score, Henry Abbott's scathing recent ESPN the Mag article about Kobe pointed out that the Lakers billions+ local TV deal moves proportionally to ratings, and Kobe delivers ratings even in his decline. Also, the big shot front row season ticket guys apparently coordinated an effort to call the front office and say "pay Kobe or we aren't going to renew!" Young Jimmy Buss, according to Abbott, is trying to give Kobe the rope to hang himself so, if they suck and can't get any free agents (two likely scenarios) the path will be blazed to lt him walk when this contract is done (or maybe he retires). It just goes to show that some moves that don't make sense from the outside often make a lot of sense from a different perspective and set of priorities and pressures.

Anyway - good luck tonight, Dre!

Mike Corey
10-24-2014, 10:45 AM
I am still flabbergasted that LeBron returned to Cleveland after all the garbage they dumped on him four years ago and, also, because it's Cleveland

His marketability and likability have absolutely and utterly soared. Everyone loves a prodigal son story (except Miamians. And ADIDAS.) And I think the financial windfall from the move will reap benefits for years or decades to come.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
10-24-2014, 12:12 PM
Ill admit to being a band wagon fan, I did't become a huge Heat fan until Shane Battier came along then it was hook line and sinker. Now we have Deng, McRoberts and hopefully Andre Dawkins. I am actually looking forward to this season of Heat Hoops more so than last year, if only Battier was still here. Now we are a little under the radar and the expectations are different. Its no longer championship or bust. Its make the playoffs and see if we can meet Lebron in the Eastern Conf Finals for a really fun matchup with the Cavs.

theAlaskanBear
10-24-2014, 12:30 PM
Ill admit to being a band wagon fan, I did't become a huge Heat fan until Shane Battier came along then it was hook line and sinker. Now we have Deng, McRoberts and hopefully Andre Dawkins. I am actually looking forward to this season of Heat Hoops more so than last year, if only Battier was still here. Now we are a little under the radar and the expectations are different. Its no longer championship or bust. Its make the playoffs and see if we can meet Lebron in the Eastern Conf Finals for a really fun matchup with the Cavs.

hmm, #8 seed miami vs #1 seed cleveland? i would rather stave in my own skull with a shoe than be subject to the mediagasm of a MIA-CLE playoff series.

Duvall
10-24-2014, 12:32 PM
His marketability and likability have absolutely and utterly soared. Everyone loves a prodigal son story (except Miamians. And ADIDAS.)

Prodigal son - could that get any more paternalistic? James was a free agent, not the property of Dan Gilbert or the state of Ohio.

Nosbleuatu
10-24-2014, 12:54 PM
Prodigal son - could that get any more paternalistic? James was a free agent, not the property of Dan Gilbert or the state of Ohio.

Property? No. But he is returning home. Should we go with prodigal resident?

IrishDevil
10-24-2014, 04:14 PM
Property? No. But he is returning home. Should we go with prodigal resident?

Pet peeve, but prodigal resident make no sense here. The prodigal son is prodigal, not because he left home and returned, but because he was a wasteful spendthrift and blew his inheritance. That is prodigality. While the term prodigal son is often used to describe situations like Lebron's, that is because it carries the cache of the well-known story behind it (and thus the relevant return and unlikely welcome despite disgrace). Prodigal resident just means someone throwing burning through money where they live. Less Lebron, more Trump.

[/wordnerd]

Looking forward to seeing Dre build on his recent good performances - I hope he sees good minutes against the Griz and continues to shoot well!

MChambers
10-24-2014, 04:20 PM
Pet peeve, but prodigal resident make no sense here. The prodigal son is prodigal, not because he left home and returned, but because he was a wasteful spendthrift and blew his inheritance. That is prodigality. While the term prodigal son is often used to describe situations like Lebron's, that is because it carries the cache of the well-known story behind it (and thus the relevant return and unlikely welcome despite disgrace). Prodigal resident just means someone throwing burning through money where they live. Less Lebron, more Trump.

[/wordnerd]

Looking forward to seeing Dre build on his recent good performances - I hope he sees good minutes against the Griz and continues to shoot well!

Return of the Grievous Angel?

_Gary
10-24-2014, 04:22 PM
The prodigal son is prodigal, not because he left home and returned, but because he was a wasteful spendthrift and blew his inheritance.

As an ordained minister I'm going to step in and disagree with your assessment here. A "prodigal" is generally known equally for both characteristics. Yes, he/she blows through the proverbial inheritance. But they are also generally associated with people that left (looking for what they perceived to be a better life) and eventually "saw the light" and returned home. You can't dismiss that aspect of it.

IrishDevil
10-24-2014, 05:38 PM
As an ordained minister I'm going to step in and disagree with your assessment here. A "prodigal" is generally known equally for both characteristics. Yes, he/she blows through the proverbial inheritance. But they are also generally associated with people that left (looking for what they perceived to be a better life) and eventually "saw the light" and returned home. You can't dismiss that aspect of it.

I certainly don't dismiss it - and indeed, I said as much:


While the term prodigal son is often used to describe situations like Lebron's, that is because it carries the cache of the well-known story behind it (and thus the relevant return and unlikely welcome despite disgrace).

I would agree that when someone is called a "prodigal," that probably also applies, but only because in this usage it is a substantive used as shorthand for "a prodigal son." A "prodigal son" could share some or all of the descriptions of the younger son from the parable, e.g., wayward, headstrong, disrepectful, disgraced, humbled, welcomed, or long-lost. The adjective prodigal, however, is narrower and more precise, and does not by itself include any of that in its definition (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prodigal), instead staying true to its roots in a Latin verb meaning to squander. My (admittedly small and nitpicky) point was that prodigal as an adjective does not mean "returned after a departure in disgrace," as often mistakenly thought, and this is especially apparent when used with nouns other than son, like Nosbleuatu's "resident."

awhom111
10-24-2014, 09:48 PM
At the risk of dragging this thread dangerously on-topic, there are a few Duke items from today.

Lance Thomas will start the season on Oklahoma City's roster.

New Orleans did not pick up Austin's fourth year option, so he looks set to move elsewhere at the end of this season.

DukieInBrasil
10-25-2014, 11:29 AM
At the risk of dragging this thread dangerously on-topic, there are a few Duke items from today.

Lance Thomas will start the season on Oklahoma City's roster.

New Orleans did not pick up Austin's fourth year option, so he looks set to move elsewhere at the end of this season.

Wow, LT sticking around! It would have been rather remarkable to see what woulda happened had injuries not cut Zoubek and Scheyer's training camp experiences. Woulda been freaky if every player on that title team had played in the NBA!
Austin seems rather the enigmatic player, he improved last year in nearly every statistical way, except in fewer minutes. He seemed to play decently in pre-season, but he may just not fit with the rest of the roster that Nawleans has.

JasonEvans
10-25-2014, 01:34 PM
Austin seems rather the enigmatic player, he improved last year in nearly every statistical way, except in fewer minutes. He seemed to play decently in pre-season, but he may just not fit with the rest of the roster that Nawleans has.

I think it may be more a matter of economics. Picking up the 4th year carries a pretty stiff raise in Rookie contracts.

Austin will make $2.43 mil this season. The team option for next year would have been at $3.11 mil, a raise of almost 30%. I am betting that the Hornets just didn't want to commit $3+ mil to someone who has been pretty mediocre so far. I mean, if Austin has a season like last year, he would be a classic NBA Minimum Salary vet kind of player. The veteran minimum for a guy with 3 years of experience will be $981,000 next year. I guess Austin might be able to get someone to give him $1.5 or maybe $2 mil as a free agent next year, but I doubt a team would put $3+ into someone who has played like a mid-bench player for 3 seasons.

Now, if Austin has a better season this year (last season his PER was 11.6, good for 301st best in the NBA), then this move may end up really costing Nawlins. If Austin becomes a more efficient 9+ ppg scorer who also distributes/crates a bit more than he could be a $5+ mil per year player that someone uses their full mid-level exemption to sign.

-Jason "either Austin or Jimmer will be the primary perimeter backup for the Pelicans this year... or maybe Russ Smith" Evans

DukieInBrasil
10-25-2014, 02:40 PM
I think it may be more a matter of economics. Picking up the 4th year carries a pretty stiff raise in Rookie contracts.

Austin will make $2.43 mil this season. The team option for next year would have been at $3.11 mil, a raise of almost 30%. I am betting that the Hornets just didn't want to commit $3+ mil to someone who has been pretty mediocre so far. I mean, if Austin has a season like last year, he would be a classic NBA Minimum Salary vet kind of player. The veteran minimum for a guy with 3 years of experience will be $981,000 next year. I guess Austin might be able to get someone to give him $1.5 or maybe $2 mil as a free agent next year, but I doubt a team would put $3+ into someone who has played like a mid-bench player for 3 seasons.

Now, if Austin has a better season this year (last season his PER was 11.6, good for 301st best in the NBA), then this move may end up really costing Nawlins. If Austin becomes a more efficient 9+ ppg scorer who also distributes/crates a bit more than he could be a $5+ mil per year player that someone uses their full mid-level exemption to sign.

-Jason "either Austin or Jimmer will be the primary perimeter backup for the Pelicans this year... or maybe Russ Smith" Evans

Makes sense. I didn't mean to intend like i was surprised by their decision, or that he had really played well enough for NO to commit big bucks to him. The difference in salary is huge, so if Austin improves the same amount as he did from his 1st to 2nd seasons, he still wouldn't be worth it. I'd probably do the same if i was them. Still i think if he improves that much, he will probably be able stick around the league for a while.

Trey21
10-27-2014, 11:16 AM
A nice little read about Mason and KG. Excited to see Mason this year and he couldn't have a better mentor.

http://www.nba.com/nets/blog/kg-continues-push-plumlee-now-plumlee-pushes-back

Reilly
10-27-2014, 09:35 PM
I believe "prodigal" meaning "returning" is at "stage 3" on the language-change index ("widespread but ..."):
http://www.lawprose.org/blog/?p=1242

Good news about Lance.

Acymetric
10-27-2014, 11:24 PM
I think it may be more a matter of economics. Picking up the 4th year carries a pretty stiff raise in Rookie contracts.

Austin will make $2.43 mil this season. The team option for next year would have been at $3.11 mil, a raise of almost 30%. I am betting that the Hornets just didn't want to commit $3+ mil to someone who has been pretty mediocre so far. I mean, if Austin has a season like last year, he would be a classic NBA Minimum Salary vet kind of player. The veteran minimum for a guy with 3 years of experience will be $981,000 next year. I guess Austin might be able to get someone to give him $1.5 or maybe $2 mil as a free agent next year, but I doubt a team would put $3+ into someone who has played like a mid-bench player for 3 seasons.

Now, if Austin has a better season this year (last season his PER was 11.6, good for 301st best in the NBA), then this move may end up really costing Nawlins. If Austin becomes a more efficient 9+ ppg scorer who also distributes/crates a bit more than he could be a $5+ mil per year player that someone uses their full mid-level exemption to sign.

-Jason "either Austin or Jimmer will be the primary perimeter backup for the Pelicans this year... or maybe Russ Smith" Evans

The Hornets have not and hopefully never will commit any money to Rivers :)

IrishDevil
10-28-2014, 10:00 AM
I believe "prodigal" meaning "returning" is at "stage 3" on the language-change index ("widespread but ..."):
http://www.lawprose.org/blog/?p=1242

Good news about Lance.

Et tu, Garner?

Here's (http://www.nba.com/thunder/trainingcamp_141025) a nice write up of Lance making the Thunder's roster.

grad_devil
10-28-2014, 10:51 AM
Looks like Elliot Williams was waived (http://thesixersense.com/2014/10/27/76ers-final-cuts-elliot-williams-marquis-teague/) from the 76ers roster yesterday.

I still have Elliot on my Dukies in the NBA page, even though his time at Duke was short-lived.

From all accounts he had a successful preseason. Here's hoping he catches on with another club before long.

COYS
10-28-2014, 11:01 AM
Looks like Elliot Williams was waived (http://thesixersense.com/2014/10/27/76ers-final-cuts-elliot-williams-marquis-teague/) from the 76ers roster yesterday.

I still have Elliot on my Dukies in the NBA page, even though his time at Duke was short-lived.

From all accounts he had a successful preseason. Here's hoping he catches on with another club before long.

He's really had some tough luck with injuries after declaring for the draft. Hopefully he's fully recovered and some team will give him a chance.

Billy Dat
10-28-2014, 11:19 AM
Shav made the suns!

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2014/10/25/suns-randolph-barron-waivers-roster/17904569/

Looks like his 3 point shooting made the difference, whatever it takes big guy.

"It was pretty close," Hornacek said. "The difference is that Shav gives us that 3-point threat now that he's shown he can make those. If we do have an injury at that four spot (power forward), he can fill in there where Earl [Baron] is strictly a five (center)."

Billy Dat
10-28-2014, 11:37 AM
Dahntay got the axe
http://www.thestate.com/2014/10/22/3762105/jazz-waive-dahntay-jones.html

That gives us 18 alums on opening night NBA rosters, very nice! I am guessing that Coach Cal, between Memphis and Kentucky, has more than K, but I bet he's the only one. I also bet a few more of ours earned their degrees, which is a boast I'll continue to make as long as I can. Considering that we've fully drunk the one-and-done elixir, those numbers may continue to shrink, but I'll continue to be proud of our team's academic achievement until I am given reason not to.

flyingdutchdevil
10-28-2014, 11:48 AM
Dahntay got the axe
http://www.thestate.com/2014/10/22/3762105/jazz-waive-dahntay-jones.html

That gives us 18 alums on opening night NBA rosters, very nice! I am guessing that Coach Cal, between Memphis and Kentucky, has more than K, but I bet he's the only one. I also bet a few more of ours earned their degrees, which is a boast I'll continue to make as long as I can. Considering that we've fully drunk the one-and-done elixir, those numbers may continue to shrink, but I'll continue to be proud of our team's academic achievement until I am given reason not to.

I'll take 18 legitimate alums over 20+ University of the NBA one-and-dones any day. Great for Coach K and the Duke family.

tommy
10-28-2014, 12:05 PM
Dahntay got the axe
http://www.thestate.com/2014/10/22/3762105/jazz-waive-dahntay-jones.html

That gives us 18 alums on opening night NBA rosters, very nice! I am guessing that Coach Cal, between Memphis and Kentucky, has more than K, but I bet he's the only one. I also bet a few more of ours earned their degrees, which is a boast I'll continue to make as long as I can. Considering that we've fully drunk the one-and-done elixir, those numbers may continue to shrink, but I'll continue to be proud of our team's academic achievement until I am given reason not to.

I think they both have 18. Here's how I count em up:

Coach K:

Boozer
Brand
Dawkins
Deng
Dunleavy
Henderson
Hood
Irving
Kelly
McRoberts
Parker
Ma. Plumlee
Mi. Plumlee
Randolph
Redick
Rivers
Singler
Thomas

Calipari:

Bledsoe
Cousins
A. Davis
Dorsey (Memphis)
Douglas-Roberts (Memphis)
Tyreke Evans (Memphis)
Goodwin
T. Jones
Kidd-Gilchrist
B. Knight
Darius Miller
Noel
Patterson
Randle
D. Rose (Memphis)
Wall
Shawne Williams (Memphis)
James Young

Billy Dat
10-28-2014, 12:15 PM
tommy - good work on the list, I would have sworn that Kentucky had more guys than that.

Here's a morsel from ESPN's David Thorpe on Jabari:

"My concern is his weight, of course, and the deleterious effect that has on his lower extremities," Thorpe said of the 6-8, 240-pound forward. "But that is more of a long-term problem, typically. I don't think he'll have trouble keeping up all season -- he is used to playing almost every day anyway. They'd be smart to help him lose 40 pounds, though."

CDu
10-28-2014, 12:29 PM
tommy - good work on the list, I would have sworn that Kentucky had more guys than that.

Here's a morsel from ESPN's David Thorpe on Jabari:

"My concern is his weight, of course, and the deleterious effect that has on his lower extremities," Thorpe said of the 6-8, 240-pound forward. "But that is more of a long-term problem, typically. I don't think he'll have trouble keeping up all season -- he is used to playing almost every day anyway. They'd be smart to help him lose 40 pounds, though."

Kentucky has 19 NBA players, but 6 (Hayes, Kanter, Prince, Rondo, Meeks, and Mohammed) never played fro Calipari. If Teague or Orton get back into the League, that will help him. And Kanter is a quasi guy I guess.

As for Parker, I can't see how losing 40 lb would be helpful. Maybe 15 or so, but 40 would leave him REALLY thin.

NSDukeFan
10-28-2014, 12:32 PM
tommy - good work on the list, I would have sworn that Kentucky had more guys than that.

Here's a morsel from ESPN's David Thorpe on Jabari:

"My concern is his weight, of course, and the deleterious effect that has on his lower extremities," Thorpe said of the 6-8, 240-pound forward. "But that is more of a long-term problem, typically. I don't think he'll have trouble keeping up all season -- he is used to playing almost every day anyway. They'd be smart to help him lose 40 pounds, though."


Kentucky has 19 NBA players, but 6 (Hayes, Kanter, Prince, Rondo, Meeks, and Mohammed) never played fro Calipari. If Teague or Orton get back into the League, that will help him. And Kanter is a quasi guy I guess.

As for Parker, I can't see how losing 40 lb would be helpful. Maybe 15 or so, but 40 would leave him REALLY thin.

Is the same thing said about LeBron, that he needs to lose 50 pounds?

Des Esseintes
10-28-2014, 12:39 PM
Kentucky has 19 NBA players, but 6 (Hayes, Kanter, Prince, Rondo, Meeks, and Mohammed) neasidever played fro Calipari. If Teague or Orton get back into the League, that will help him. And Kanter is a quasi guy I guess.

As for Parker, I can't see how losing 40 lb would be helpful. Maybe 15 or so, but 40 would leave him REALLY thin.

Seriously. Forty pounds is crazy. No one in good conscience would recommend that for a high-level athlete, aside from Shaq's latter day Elvis in Vegas moments, of course.

cato
10-28-2014, 01:31 PM
Seriously. Forty pounds is crazy. No one in good conscience would recommend that for a high-level athlete, aside from Shaq's latter day Elvis in Vegas moments, of course.

IIRC, Boozer dropped a significant amount making the transition. I believe he played at 280 at Duke, but dropped to 257 by the time he was measured before the draft.

Even assuming the 280 is right, that is dropping a little over 20 lbs with a significantly higher starting point. And Boozer was never as explosive as Jabari.

superdave
10-28-2014, 06:00 PM
A lot of people are picking Jabari for rookie of the year -

http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/ROY1415/2014-15-rookie-year-predictions

theAlaskanBear
10-29-2014, 11:12 AM
Only two Dukes in action opening night. Boozer had a solid 17pt effort on 7/13 shooting and 7 rebounds. Austin Rivers played a solid 19 minutes with 7 pts and 3 ast. While Austin will be fighting for PT, with the injury to Julius Randle and no real scorer outside of Kobe (Nick Young is injured), Boozer will see plenty of time on the court. I hope he can stay healthy.

JBDuke
10-30-2014, 08:03 AM
Luol had a couple of very nice plays in last night's Heat win over the Wizards. Great dunk early in the game over a whole pack of Wiz, and then a stunning block of Gortat, coming across the lane, ducking under the basket to block a layup. Gortat had done a nice job of using the rim as protection, but it didn't stop Lu from getting to it.

grad_devil
10-30-2014, 09:10 AM
As a reminder, I host a simple page that posts the stats from the previous night's games for our Devils in the NBA (http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html). It's not updated in real time, but after all of the games for that night have finished.

Out of 12 Devils playing last night, raise your hand if you thought you'd see Lance Thomas at the top of the ratings list? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Congratulations to Lance - here's to many more!

91_92_01_10_15
10-30-2014, 10:31 AM
As a reminder, I host a simple page that posts the stats from the previous night's games for our Devils in the NBA (http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html). It's not updated in real time, but after all of the games for that night have finished.

Out of 12 Devils playing last night, raise your hand if you thought you'd see Lance Thomas at the top of the ratings list? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Congratulations to Lance - here's to many more!

Ahhh. There you are. The link changed from mhc.edu to mhu.edu. Thanks for posting! I check your page several times per week and was freaking out a little. ;)

elvis14
10-30-2014, 10:41 AM
As a reminder, I host a simple page that posts the stats from the previous night's games for our Devils in the NBA (http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html). It's not updated in real time, but after all of the games for that night have finished.

Out of 12 Devils playing last night, raise your hand if you thought you'd see Lance Thomas at the top of the ratings list? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Congratulations to Lance - here's to many more!

I didn't see much of the game but looking at the stats from last night I can't help but wonder how Mike Dunlevy managed to play 31 minutes in a blowout and not score a single point! I also wonder if Lance's 14 points were a career high.

I did see some of the Hornets/Bucks game. Was hoping to see more of Jabari and Gerald Henderson. Hendo didn't get very many minutes. Jabari played OK from what I saw. I was in and out and seemed like most of the time when I'd tune in Jabari was subbed out.

yancem
10-30-2014, 10:46 AM
As a reminder, I host a simple page that posts the stats from the previous night's games for our Devils in the NBA (http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html). It's not updated in real time, but after all of the games for that night have finished.

Out of 12 Devils playing last night, raise your hand if you thought you'd see Lance Thomas at the top of the ratings list? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Congratulations to Lance - here's to many more!

Lance has to be on of the best success stories in Duke basketball history. Very few people though he had any real shot at making the nba and while he hasn't been a star by any means, he has carved out s very solid career (and made quite a bit of money). I think that there is always (or at least should be) room for a high energy/hustle/glue guy who plays solid defense and aggressively goes after loose balls. Hopefully, Jefferson is taking notes because he could fill a similar role with even more of an offensive game. Especially if he can develop a consistent 12-15 shot.

Also, thanks for putting together the box score aggregation cite, I've been viewing it for years. Much easier than sifting through a dozen box scores on espn.

NashvilleDevil
10-30-2014, 10:54 AM
I didn't see much of the game but looking at the stats from last night I can't help but wonder how Mike Dunlevy managed to play 31 minutes in a blowout and not score a single point! I also wonder if Lance's 14 points were a career high.

I did see some of the Hornets/Bucks game. Was hoping to see more of Jabari and Gerald Henderson. Hendo didn't get very many minutes. Jabari played OK from what I saw. I was in and out and seemed like most of the time when I'd tune in Jabari was subbed out.

Jabari is on a team that has a lot of guys that want to shoot. Brandon Knight took 17 shots, Middleton took 15, and OJ took 10. Jabari was next with 9 and made 3

Nosbleuatu
10-30-2014, 11:13 AM
I didn't see much of the game but looking at the stats from last night I can't help but wonder how Mike Dunlevy managed to play 31 minutes in a blowout and not score a single point!

There's a nice writeup from Wilbon talking about Dunleavy (LINK (http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/11786890/chicago-bulls-asked-better-season-opener)).

The relevant part:
Left one-on-one with one of the NBA's three best scorers in a manner that he would have considered a nightmare in his younger years, Dunleavy harassed Anthony into missing 8-of-13 shots -- and obvious frustration. Dunleavy said afterward, "I've got a whole new appreciation for guys who are asked to do that all the time." Dunleavy knew his offensive numbers would suffer. "The physicality of trying to guard him, just chasing him around. ... With where I am in my career now, I don't care about any of that. I want to contribute in any way I'm asked."

elvis14
10-30-2014, 11:17 AM
There's a nice writeup from Wilbon talking about Dunleavy (LINK (http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/11786890/chicago-bulls-asked-better-season-opener)).

The relevant part:

That's a good answer. I guess spending all your energy trying to guard Carmelo (and doing a fine job) can have a negative effect on your offense. Dunleavy was basically playing team ball (wonder where he could have learned such a thing).

CDu
10-30-2014, 01:04 PM
That's a good answer. I guess spending all your energy trying to guard Carmelo (and doing a fine job) can have a negative effect on your offense. Dunleavy was basically playing team ball (wonder where he could have learned such a thing).

Yeah, the announcers definitely did not fail to notice Dunleavy's work. Van Gundy was effusive in praise for Dunleavy's play on Carmelo. He was terrific.

To be completely fair, Dunleavy almost always had help. Whenever Anthony tried to get near the rim, he ran into the help defense of Noah and Gibson (to of the very best defensive bigs in the game). That rarely worked out well. So when Anthony couldn't bully his way through Dunleavy, he settled for contested jumpers. Sometimes, that's enough for him (he's as good an iso scorer as there is in the league, and his step-back jumper is a big part of that). But kudos to Dunleavy for forcing Anthony to continue to settle for contested mid-range jumpers. It was easily the best defensive effort I've seen from him. Great game even without hitting a field goal.

luvdahops
10-30-2014, 01:07 PM
Yeah, the announcers definitely did not fail to notice Dunleavy's work. Van Gundy was effusive in praise for Dunleavy's play on Carmelo. He was terrific.

To be completely fair, Dunleavy almost always had help. Whenever Anthony tried to get near the rim, he ran into the help defense of Noah and Gibson (to of the very best defensive bigs in the game). That rarely worked out well. So when Anthony couldn't bully his way through Dunleavy, he settled for contested jumpers. Sometimes, that's enough for him (he's as good an iso scorer as there is in the league, and his step-back jumper is a big part of that). But kudos to Dunleavy for forcing Anthony to continue to settle for contested mid-range jumpers. It was easily the best defensive effort I've seen from him. Great game even without hitting a field goal.

Also reflective of Thibs' abilities as a coach to improve almost any player's individual defense and ability to operate within the Bulls' team D concepts.

CDu
10-30-2014, 03:31 PM
Also reflective of Thibs' abilities as a coach to improve almost any player's individual defense and ability to operate within the Bulls' team D concepts.

Yeah, I am almost convinced that Thibs could coach a JV team to the playoffs.

kAzE
10-30-2014, 04:22 PM
Lance has to be on of the best success stories in Duke basketball history. Very few people though he had any real shot at making the nba and while he hasn't been a star by any means, he has carved out s very solid career (and made quite a bit of money). I think that there is always (or at least should be) room for a high energy/hustle/glue guy who plays solid defense and aggressively goes after loose balls. Hopefully, Jefferson is taking notes because he could fill a similar role with even more of an offensive game. Especially if he can develop a consistent 12-15 shot.

Also, thanks for putting together the box score aggregation cite, I've been viewing it for years. Much easier than sifting through a dozen box scores on espn.

You know, I could see why you would consider Jefferson and Thomas similar players, but I honestly think Amile is going to be drafted after his senior year. He has the length and the motor to make an impact in the NBA. The only thing he's been missing is the strength to bang down low. Of course, he lacks the high-end athleticism to become a star in the NBA, but he seems to have packed on a considerable amount of muscle over this offseason. I could see him having a terrific final 2 years at Duke and getting drafted late first, early second round and making a roster. Guys like him usually find their way on to rosters in the league. Amile is much more talented than Lance, and he's got all the same intangibles.

flyingdutchdevil
10-30-2014, 04:30 PM
You know, I could see why you would consider Jefferson and Thomas similar players, but I honestly think Amile is going to be drafted after his senior year. He has the length and the motor to make an impact in the NBA. The only thing he's been missing is the strength to bang down low. Of course, he lacks the high-end athleticism to become a star in the NBA, but he seems to have packed on a considerable amount of muscle over this offseason. I could see him having a terrific final 2 years at Duke and getting drafted late first, early second round and making a roster. Guys like him usually find their way on to rosters in the league. Amile is much more talented than Lance, and he's got all the same intangibles.

Lance was a defensive stub; the kind of player who can shut down a 3-5 in college. Amile hasn't shown 10% of the defensive effectiveness that Lance did (a portion of this is not being physically ready to play the 4 his freshman year and not physically ready to play the 5 last year). I really think you're selling Lance way short here. He is the one player that gets virtually no credit for our natty. And while he didn't score like the S-clan or rebound like Zoubs, he played exceptional team and individual defense.

Amile may end up being a good defender, but I haven't seen it thus far.

kAzE
10-30-2014, 04:37 PM
Lance was a defensive stub; the kind of player who can shut down a 3-5 in college. Amile hasn't shown 10% of the defensive effectiveness that Lance did (a portion of this is not being physically ready to play the 4 his freshman year and not physically ready to play the 5 last year). I really think you're selling Lance way short here. He is the one player that gets virtually no credit for our natty. And while he didn't score like the S-clan or rebound like Zoubs, he played exceptional team and individual defense.

Amile may end up being a good defender, but I haven't seen it thus far.

You're right, Lance was a better defender. I'd attribute Amile's perceived weaknesses on defense to his lack of strength the last 2 years. Again, he seems to have worked very hard on that, so we will see. But has he really been that bad? I thought Amile was our best defensive player last year . . . obviously, it was a horrendous defensive team, but he was one of the few guys who wasn't a complete turnstile on that end of the court. After all, he had to cover for Jabari's man as well most of the time. I think his natural length, added muscle, and the addition of Okafor in the paint are going to result in a huge improvement for Amile defensively. He was just never cut out to be a center. I see him getting a ton of blocks this year as a help defender.

flyingdutchdevil
10-30-2014, 04:45 PM
You're right, Lance was a better defender. I'd attribute Amile's perceived weaknesses on defense to his lack of strength the last 2 years. Again, he seems to have worked very hard on that, so we will see. But has he really been that bad? I thought Amile was our best defensive player last year . . . obviously, it was a horrendous defensive team, but he was one of the few guys who wasn't a complete turnstile on that end of the court. I think his natural length, added muscle, and the addition of Okafor in the paint are going to result in a huge improvement for Amile defensively. He was just never cut out to be a center. I see him getting a ton of blocks this year as a help defender.

You may be right, but I haven't seen anything in the last two years to keep me optimistic (other than hope and Amile playing his natural position with added weight).

Amile wasn't much of a help defender because his man often boxed him in, leaving the penetrator to do whatever he wanted. Amile was decent as an on-ball defender, provided that he wasn't getting posted up the whole time.

Last year was really incredible, from a defensive standpoint. Cook has never been a defender, and I thought he was going to be the only liability. I couldn't be more wrong. Sulaimon regressed defensively, Hood lost defensive concentration at least twice a game, Thornton was too slow to guard guards, Dawkins was improved as a defender but that isn't saying much, MP3 wasn't ready, Hairston was too short and too slow, and Jabari - well, has there ever been a Duke freshman who was that bad awful at defense? I mean, it was the perfect storm from a defensive standpoint. No coach, including an HoFer and potential GOAT, could fix this problem. Unbelievable.

luvdahops
10-30-2014, 04:45 PM
You're right, Lance was a better defender. I'd attribute Amile's perceived weaknesses on defense to his lack of strength the last 2 years. Again, he seems to have worked very hard on that, so we will see. But has he really been that bad? I thought Amile was our best defensive player last year . . . obviously, it was a horrendous defensive team, but he was one of the few guys who wasn't a complete turnstile on that end of the court. I think his natural length, added muscle, and the addition of Okafor in the paint are going to result in a huge improvement for Amile defensively. He was just never cut out to be a center. I see him getting a ton of blocks this year as a help defender.

Agreed. Amile has the length, mobility and anticipation to be a very good help and face-up defender, and his improved strength should help him hold his own more inside this year. He had to play more true post defense than is ideal last year, but his role should be very different and a much better fit this year. Amile could also be very effective if/when we do press full court.

FWIW, I would say Lance was very effective defending 2s thru 4s, but like Amile, was much less effective defending true low post players. As noted previously in this thread, he was exceptionally good with switching onto smaller players. I do see similar potential in Amile, though I can't argue it has been realized yet.

kAzE
10-30-2014, 04:55 PM
Agreed. Amile has the length, mobility and anticipation to be a very good help and face-up defender, and his improved strength should help him hold his own more inside this year. He had to play more true post defense than is ideal last year, but his role should be very different and a much better fit this year. Amile could also be very effective if/when we do press full court.

FWIW, I would say Lance was very effective defending 2s thru 4s, but like Amile, was much less effective defending true low post players. As noted previously in this thread, he was exceptionally good with switching onto smaller players. I do see similar potential in Amile, though I can't argue it has been realized yet.

And aside from his physical attributes, Amile is just a smart player. It's easy to see that he has a high basketball IQ. He almost never takes bad shots, and is rarely the wrong place on defense. He's one of those guys who will always get a few more rebounds a game just because he's at the right spot at the right time. Guys like him usually become good defensive players once their body matures. Ryan Kelly was like that. (Albeit with a very different skill set)

Trey21
10-30-2014, 05:52 PM
And aside from his physical attributes, Amile is just a smart player. It's easy to see that he has a high basketball IQ. He almost never takes bad shots, and is rarely the wrong place on defense. He's one of those guys who will always get a few more rebounds a game just because he's at the right spot at the right time. Guys like him usually become good defensive players once their body matures. Ryan Kelly was like that. (Albeit with a very different skill set)

Totally agreed. Trying not to look past this exciting season, but Sheed and Amile will be excellent seniors if they both stay. Amile is already a superb leader and Sheed's maturity coming into this year is encouraging. They're right in the middle of their Duke careers and I expect big things from them this year and next. Excited to watch their growth this year.

Lance was really great in the first quarter last night. If he continues to play at a high level given his opportunities I think he'll eventually become a consistent rotation player in the league. He might not get rotation minutes once OKC gets healthy, but he can prove his worth to the rest of the league these next few months. Still maybe he can surprise me. If he becomes a true lock down defender I think there are minutes for him in OKC.

He's 26 right now and this is probably the best opportunity he has been given thus far in his NBA career.

kAzE
10-31-2014, 10:47 AM
Totally agreed. Trying not to look past this exciting season, but Sheed and Amile will be excellent seniors if they both stay. Amile is already a superb leader and Sheed's maturity coming into this year is encouraging. They're right in the middle of their Duke careers and I expect big things from them this year and next. Excited to watch their growth this year.

Lance was really great in the first quarter last night. If he continues to play at a high level given his opportunities I think he'll eventually become a consistent rotation player in the league. He might not get rotation minutes once OKC gets healthy, but he can prove his worth to the rest of the league these next few months. Still maybe he can surprise me. If he becomes a true lock down defender I think there are minutes for him in OKC.

He's 26 right now and this is probably the best opportunity he has been given thus far in his NBA career.

Lance is currently 12.5% of the entire active roster . . . he didn't play as well last night (some bad turnovers), but they can't afford to let him go. Just a nightmare season thus far for OKC.

zoroaster
10-31-2014, 10:25 PM
Not sure if this has been posted, but Jabari gave Halloween candy out to trick-or-treaters at his (?) house dressed as a Blues Brother -- very adorable, and reminds of him generously giving out Jabari Bars to the Crazies last year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKru3sKa0t0

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-01-2014, 09:37 PM
Miami Blue Devils update...I mean Miami Heat update. Andre made the trip to Philly as did McRoberts. Andre got some garbage time minutes and McBob got his feet wet in limited minutes. Loul Deng was all around good as always. HEAT WIN!!!!

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2014, 09:44 PM
Miami Blue Devils update...I mean Miami Heat update. Andre made the trip to Philly as did McRoberts. Andre got some garbage time minutes and McBob got his feet wet in limited minutes. Loul Deng was all around good as always. HEAT WIN!!!!

Deng has played two very solid all around games so far. I've been a little surprised by his quickness getting to the basket actually. McRoberts looked uncomfortable out there, but that's to be expected. I don't think Andre touched the ball in his two minutes. Maybe next time.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-02-2014, 08:26 PM
Josh McRoberts managed to intentionally tear the upper portion of his jersey in half tonight. Impressive show of strength. He's still a little lost out there, which I guess has been frustrating to him.

Indoor66
11-02-2014, 09:56 PM
Josh McRoberts managed to intentionally tear the upper portion of his jersey in half tonight. Impressive show of strength. He's still a little lost out there, which I guess has been frustrating to him.

Josh missed most of the practices due to injury. He is attempting to round into shape.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-03-2014, 07:13 AM
Josh missed most of the practices due to injury. He is attempting to round into shape.

I think he finds his footing soon enough, he is exactly what the 3-0 Heat are needing later in the season. Someone to spell Bosh for extended periods and he could possibly start along side Bosh as well. I don't think Spo has solidified a lineup yet and is waiting until everyone is healthy. I can see a lineup of Cole Wade Deng McBob and Bosh being very good. And the combinations Spo can use will be fun, Cole Rio Wade McBob and Bosh or move Deng to PF and have Cole Rio Wade Deng and Bosh for a speedy team. Loul Deng has been explosive this year and is coming into his cuts harder than anyone Ive seen in the NBA. Dude just knows how to get open.

JJs Shot continues to struggle he was 4-14 and had 12 points in the Clippers first loss of the season vs the Kings. While Demarcus Cousins had 34 points and 17 boards. Credit Coach K for his maturity and good play this season.....Right?

Thats about all the Dukies I watched on Sunday Night. Unless we want to discuss G. Vasquez who played for Maryland but I know he is a fan favorite around here as some of us had a soft spot for him. He gets a ton of minutes for Toronto and played his typical hard nosed game on Sunday. Also on Toronto is Tyler Hansborough who fouls more than he scores and is just there to push shove and generally get physical and look like a goon. I hear he trash talks in Swahili but thats unconfirmed.

Indoor66
11-03-2014, 08:32 AM
I think he finds his footing soon enough, he is exactly what the 3-0 Heat are needing later in the season. Someone to spell Bosh for extended periods and he could possibly start along side Bosh as well. I don't think Spo has solidified a lineup yet and is waiting until everyone is healthy. I can see a lineup of Cole Wade Deng McBob and Bosh being very good. And the combinations Spo can use will be fun, Cole Rio Wade McBob and Bosh or move Deng to PF and have Cole Rio Wade Deng and Bosh for a speedy team. Loul Deng has been explosive this year and is coming into his cuts harder than anyone Ive seen in the NBA. Dude just knows how to get open.

JJs Shot continues to struggle he was 4-14 and had 12 points in the Clippers first loss of the season vs the Kings. While Demarcus Cousins had 34 points and 17 boards. Credit Coach K for his maturity and good play this season.....Right?

Thats about all the Dukies I watched on Sunday Night. Unless we want to discuss G. Vasquez who played for Maryland but I know he is a fan favorite around here as some of us had a soft spot for him. He gets a ton of minutes for Toronto and played his typical hard nosed game on Sunday. Also on Toronto is Tyler Hansborough who fouls more than he scores and is just there to push shove and generally get physical and look like a goon. I hear he trash talks in Swahili but thats unconfirmed.

I agree with your analysis of the Heat. They are going to be a good team as the season wears on. I see very good ball movement at times and additional familiarity among the players will enhance that. Deng looked good most of last night.

As to Hansblahblah - he bring very little to the pro game. Also, he never did learn any Swahili....:cool:

flyingdutchdevil
11-03-2014, 09:26 AM
I agree with your analysis of the Heat. They are going to be a good team as the season wears on. I see very good ball movement at times and additional familiarity among the players will enhance that. Deng looked good most of last night.

As to Hansblahblah - he bring very little to the pro game. Also, he never did learn any Swahili....:cool:

The Heat are awesome right now because... it's the beginning of the season and they already have their chemistry sorted. D-Wade, Bosh, and N. Cole - three starters - are all familiar with each other. Luol Deng is the consummate glue-guy-meets-18-point-scorer. Shawne Williams is the enigma, but surprisingly fits into this team very well. The great news about the Heat is that their floor is very high. The problem with the Heat is that their ceiling is, well, significantly lower than the Bulls and especially the Cavs. I expect the Heat to easily make the play-offs, but I have no idea where to place them. I'm guessing between 4-6.

Billy Dat
11-03-2014, 09:37 AM
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA · 2h 2 hours ago
What is the proper name for Josh McRoberts' new hairstyle? It's not quite a pony tail, right?

flyingdutchdevil
11-03-2014, 10:39 AM
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA · 2h 2 hours ago
What is the proper name for Josh McRoberts' new hairstyle? It's not quite a pony tail, right?

Eastern European mobster?
USSR Wrestler?
Ukrainian arms dealer?

Which ever one, it's definitely Eastern European.

I preferred the "Jesus" McBob look over the "Eastern European" McBob look.

jacone21
11-03-2014, 11:02 AM
Eastern European mobster?
USSR Wrestler?
Ukrainian arms dealer?

Which ever one, it's definitely Eastern European.

I preferred the "Jesus" McBob look over the "Eastern European" McBob look.

Here's a pic. I'll go with Ukranian arms dealer. Definitely looks like a bad guy from a circa 1989 Jean Claude Van Damme flick.

4436

Mabdul Doobakus
11-03-2014, 02:26 PM
The Heat are awesome right now because... it's the beginning of the season and they already have their chemistry sorted. D-Wade, Bosh, and N. Cole - three starters - are all familiar with each other. Luol Deng is the consummate glue-guy-meets-18-point-scorer. Shawne Williams is the enigma, but surprisingly fits into this team very well. The great news about the Heat is that their floor is very high. The problem with the Heat is that their ceiling is, well, significantly lower than the Bulls and especially the Cavs. I expect the Heat to easily make the play-offs, but I have no idea where to place them. I'm guessing between 4-6.

Agree to a point. The truth is the Heat have had a lot of turnover, probably more than most teams. Some of the core guys have played together for quite some time, but again that is true of a lot of teams. You also have a few established guys in somewhat new roles. Watching the Heat play this year, it struck me just how much this team's gameplan was structured around Lebron. It's always said that Lebron makes everyone around him better, which I certainly won't argue with, but again...the Heat went to great strides to do everything they could to allow Lebron to reach his max potential, even if it meant getting less out of other players, particularly Bosh. I've been impressed how the Heat have been able to very quickly fill that giant void. Their offensive efficiency seems like it's barely missed a step. To be fair, it's been mostly poor competition to this point. But still, I think Spo deserves some credit here.

It'll be interesting to see if Granger can become a factor, and I do think McRoberts will fit in nicely once he gets his feet under him. Shabazz has really rebounded after a terrible summer league performance. They have him playing significant 4th quarter minutes and he's responded well.

Des Esseintes
11-03-2014, 02:53 PM
Agree to a point. The truth is the Heat have had a lot of turnover, probably more than most teams. Some of the core guys have played together for quite some time, but again that is true of a lot of teams. You also have a few established guys in somewhat new roles. Watching the Heat play this year, it struck me just how much this team's gameplan was structured around Lebron. It's always said that Lebron makes everyone around him better, which I certainly won't argue with, but again...the Heat went to great strides to do everything they could to allow Lebron to reach his max potential, even if it meant getting less out of other players, particularly Bosh. I've been impressed how the Heat have been able to very quickly fill that giant void. Their offensive efficiency seems like it's barely missed a step. To be fair, it's been mostly poor competition to this point. But still, I think Spo deserves some credit here.

It'll be interesting to see if Granger can become a factor, and I do think McRoberts will fit in nicely once he gets his feet under him. Shabazz has really rebounded after a terrible summer league performance. They have him playing significant 4th quarter minutes and he's responded well.
Yeah. Losing the best player in the game pretty much means you cannot win a continuity-off. The pecking order changes significantly, and that leaves out the incorporation of two major new cogs in Luol and Josh.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-03-2014, 04:00 PM
Agree to a point. The truth is the Heat have had a lot of turnover, probably more than most teams. Some of the core guys have played together for quite some time, but again that is true of a lot of teams. You also have a few established guys in somewhat new roles. Watching the Heat play this year, it struck me just how much this team's gameplan was structured around Lebron. It's always said that Lebron makes everyone around him better, which I certainly won't argue with, but again...the Heat went to great strides to do everything they could to allow Lebron to reach his max potential, even if it meant getting less out of other players, particularly Bosh. I've been impressed how the Heat have been able to very quickly fill that giant void. Their offensive efficiency seems like it's barely missed a step. To be fair, it's been mostly poor competition to this point. But still, I think Spo deserves some credit here.

It'll be interesting to see if Granger can become a factor, and I do think McRoberts will fit in nicely once he gets his feet under him. Shabazz has really rebounded after a terrible summer league performance. They have him playing significant 4th quarter minutes and he's responded well.


New game plan is fluid ball movement, less one on one off the dribble. At times when Lebron was around they would get caught waiting for him to do things. Most of the time he would. But in the Finals you could see that if it wasn't working they just had no idea where else to go.

Another thread said Davis would be MVP without a doubt if the season were to end today, but I would put my vote in for Bosh right now as well. Dude has been amazing and he looks like a completely different player. Getting back to Duke guys, if McRoberts can crack the starting line up beside Bosh and hit his open threes and spread the floor even more, Bosh will be even more lethal. The game on Tuesday against Houston will be a big test, I will be there for a first hand report on The Miami Blue Devils :)

Sidenote: I'm not butt hurt about Lebron leaving at all, and I am over myself for anyone who wants to message me with silly and quite frankly rude comments about my Heat Fandom

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-03-2014, 04:04 PM
Duke players in action tonight:

Lance takes on Mason

Austin Rivers takes on the Grizz

and I think thats about it, a relatively slow night in the NBA. To be expected with Monday Night Football

pfrduke
11-03-2014, 08:03 PM
Mason is having an excellent first quarter against the Thunder - at one point the Nets ran 4-5 straight possessions through him in which he scored on a dunk, hit a cutting Bogdanovic for a dunk, scored on a lefty jump hook, and had a nice post move for a righty jump hook (that missed).

On the other end, Lance Thomas, taking advantage of frontcourt minutes available due to Thunder injuries, scored on a putback basket over Mason. I will admit that in 2010, I would not have believe that Lance Thomas would score against Mason Plumlee in an NBA game.

JBDuke
11-03-2014, 10:35 PM
Duke players in action tonight:

Lance takes on Mason

Austin Rivers takes on the Grizz

and I think thats about it, a relatively slow night in the NBA. To be expected with Monday Night Football

Rodney Hood and the Utah Jazz are visiting JJ Redick and the Clippers tonight as well.

Mason with 10 pts and 8 boards in only 15:30. Pretty good productivity! Lance had an awful night shooting - 1-10.

CDu
11-05-2014, 12:34 AM
Tonight was a mixed bag overall for our NBA Blue Devils. I will start with the good.

Lance Thomas had a terrific game in putting up 14 and 5. Boozer is putting together a solid game as well with 13 and 6 midgame. And Rivers had a solid 12 points off the bench.

In the okay range was Parker with 10 points. And Miles Plumlee had an okay nonscoring night with 7 rebounds, 2 steals, and 2 blocks.

Dunleavy, Henderson, Dawkins, and Kelly were pretty uninfluential in their games in minutes ranging from 2 to 32.

The roughest night belonged to Irving, who went 3-17 (9 points) against Portland in a blowout loss.

mgtr
11-05-2014, 12:37 AM
In the first few games, JJ has been off his feed. Is he injured? What is the problem. I expect him to be guarded closely, but still to have some good shots. But I think the other night he went 2 for 10 from the 3-point line. How long can he do that before Crawford replaces him? Sad. He is likely to be overtaken in the stat line by Turk.

flyingdutchdevil
11-05-2014, 09:09 AM
Tonight was a mixed bag overall for our NBA Blue Devils. I will start with the good.

Lance Thomas had a terrific game in putting up 14 and 5. Boozer is putting together a solid game as well with 13 and 6 midgame. And Rivers had a solid 12 points off the bench.

In the okay range was Parker with 10 points. And Miles Plumlee had an okay nonscoring night with 7 rebounds, 2 steals, and 2 blocks.

Dunleavy, Henderson, Dawkins, and Kelly were pretty uninfluential in their games in minutes ranging from 2 to 32.

The roughest night belonged to Irving, who went 3-17 (9 points) against Portland in a blowout loss.

Important to note that the Cavs backcourt (Kyrie and Waiters) was a combined 6-28 (21%). Ouch. Together they had 5 assists, 1 rebound, 2 steals, and 4 turnovers. Ouch.

The Cavs backcourt has shown that they can be amazing offensively. Defensively, they are still a disaster (the starting Portland backcourt scored 48 points). But offensively, they can be good.

What's not good is when the Cavs have days like these, and unfortunately there were a lot last year and it happened yesterday. Of course, it's early in the season, but this is not a good sign.

Starting Kyrie, Lebron, Love, and Waiters is not a good idea. All four players need the ball in their hands, and Lebron, Kyrie, and Waiters are best with the ball in their hands. The Kyrie / Waiters backcourt really reminds me of the Curry/Monta Ellis backcourt a few years ago. I hate to say it, but one of them needs to go, and it arguably needs to be Waiters.

theAlaskanBear
11-05-2014, 09:43 AM
Important to note that the Cavs backcourt (Kyrie and Waiters) was a combined 6-28 (21%). Ouch. Together they had 5 assists, 1 rebound, 2 steals, and 4 turnovers. Ouch.

The Cavs backcourt has shown that they can be amazing offensively. Defensively, they are still a disaster (the starting Portland backcourt scored 48 points). But offensively, they can be good.

What's not good is when the Cavs have days like these, and unfortunately there were a lot last year and it happened yesterday. Of course, it's early in the season, but this is not a good sign.

Starting Kyrie, Lebron, Love, and Waiters is not a good idea. All four players need the ball in their hands, and Lebron, Kyrie, and Waiters are best with the ball in their hands. The Kyrie / Waiters backcourt really reminds me of the Curry/Monta Ellis backcourt a few years ago. I hate to say it, but one of them needs to go, and it arguably needs to be Waiters.

The lack of chemistry between Irving and Waiters on the court the first couple of games was palpable. Starting Dellavedova with Irving in the backcourt, or going big with Marion on the court would be the best starting lineup -- bring Waiters in on the bench as the scoring punch. If Waiters wont accept that, trade him.

Irving is shooting poorly from 3, but his shooting splits otherwise good. He leads the team in FG% at the rim (80% from 0-3ft) and has a nice % from long twos. Meanwhile Waiters is in negative win shares and has the worst TS% on the team, and almost has the worst ast% of the regulars on the team -- only 5% and just ahead of Tristan Thompson.

flyingdutchdevil
11-05-2014, 09:47 AM
The lack of chemistry between Irving and Waiters on the court the first couple of games was palpable. Starting Dellavedova with Irving in the backcourt, or going big with Marion on the court would be the best starting lineup -- bring Waiters in on the bench as the scoring punch. If Waiters wont accept that, trade him.

Irving is shooting poorly from 3, but his shooting splits otherwise good. He leads the team in FG% at the rim (80% from 0-3ft) and has a nice % from long twos. Meanwhile Waiters is in negative win shares and has the worst TS% on the team, and almost has the worst ast% of the regulars on the team -- only 5% and just ahead of Tristan Thompson.

I'm with you all the way. The internet is buzzing with Vines of Waiters asking for the ball 5 feet away from the 3pt line...from Lebron. Waiters, really?

Trade Waiters for a 3-and-D guy, and do it quick.

CDu
11-05-2014, 09:58 AM
Important to note that the Cavs backcourt (Kyrie and Waiters) was a combined 6-28 (21%). Ouch. Together they had 5 assists, 1 rebound, 2 steals, and 4 turnovers. Ouch.

The Cavs backcourt has shown that they can be amazing offensively. Defensively, they are still a disaster (the starting Portland backcourt scored 48 points). But offensively, they can be good.

What's not good is when the Cavs have days like these, and unfortunately there were a lot last year and it happened yesterday. Of course, it's early in the season, but this is not a good sign.

Starting Kyrie, Lebron, Love, and Waiters is not a good idea. All four players need the ball in their hands, and Lebron, Kyrie, and Waiters are best with the ball in their hands. The Kyrie / Waiters backcourt really reminds me of the Curry/Monta Ellis backcourt a few years ago. I hate to say it, but one of them needs to go, and it arguably needs to be Waiters.

Totally agree. Through 3 games, Love has been Cleveland's best and most consistent offensive player. Yet because James and Irving both need the ball in their hands to be at their best, it seems like Love doesn't always get the touches he deserves. Down the stretch last night it was noticeable how out-of-sync the Cavs are. It was iso play after iso play down the stretch, usually resulting in a missed long jumper. A 7 point game became a blowout in the matter of a few minutes.

Waiters and Irving clearly don't mix. I'm not sure that James and Irving mix, either (at least not optimally), but at least James is an elite player and is versatile enough to make it work. But the three of them together is really not ideal. If they had a "3 and D" guy, that'd be the best fit between LeBron and Irving. But right now, their "3" guys are bad defensively and their "D" guys can't shoot/score.

But between the awful defense and the bad skillset mix, Cleveland has a good deal of challenges to address. The good thing for them is that it is very early in the season. As long as guys don't tune each other out, there is time to right the ship. But I agree that separating Irving and Waiters makes sense.

theAlaskanBear
11-05-2014, 10:54 AM
Totally agree. Through 3 games, Love has been Cleveland's best and most consistent offensive player. Yet because James and Irving both need the ball in their hands to be at their best, it seems like Love doesn't always get the touches he deserves. Down the stretch last night it was noticeable how out-of-sync the Cavs are. It was iso play after iso play down the stretch, usually resulting in a missed long jumper. A 7 point game became a blowout in the matter of a few minutes.

Waiters and Irving clearly don't mix. I'm not sure that James and Irving mix, either (at least not optimally), but at least James is an elite player and is versatile enough to make it work. But the three of them together is really not ideal. If they had a "3 and D" guy, that'd be the best fit between LeBron and Irving. But right now, their "3" guys are bad defensively and their "D" guys can't shoot/score.

But between the awful defense and the bad skillset mix, Cleveland has a good deal of challenges to address. The good thing for them is that it is very early in the season. As long as guys don't tune each other out, there is time to right the ship. But I agree that separating Irving and Waiters makes sense.

I actually think that Kyrie and LeBron complement each other nicely, they just have to learn to play together. It's only been three games. The half-court offense is going to take time. I would be running a lot of pick and roll sets to take advantage of the above average penetration and quickness of Kyrie, and the passing/3-pt/versatility/rolls/lobs of Love and James. Those players create advantages and mismatches so you want to force their defenders to rotate and be on their heels. The 2-guard should be spacing in the corners and get a lot of dirty buckets on cuts and sneak plays because so much is focused on the big-3. Same with the Varejao who should primarily be screening and also cutting to the hoop for offensive boards and buckets at the rim. Early aggression into the lane and attacking the bucket should give Love/Kyrie/LeBron a few extra inches from the defenders and open up the 3 as the game progresses.

Defensively, they will have to make some roster changes or really work hard if they want to be anything above average.

Billy Dat
11-05-2014, 11:33 AM
In the first few games, JJ has been off his feed. Is he injured? What is the problem. I expect him to be guarded closely, but still to have some good shots. But I think the other night he went 2 for 10 from the 3-point line. How long can he do that before Crawford replaces him? Sad. He is likely to be overtaken in the stat line by Turk.

http://www.foxsports.com/west/story/jj-redick-clippers-guard-attributes-technicals-to-new-baby-adjusting-to-less-sleep-102714

Midnight feedings...

_Gary
11-05-2014, 12:43 PM
I actually think that Kyrie and LeBron complement each other nicely, they just have to learn to play together. It's only been three games. The half-court offense is going to take time. I would be running a lot of pick and roll sets to take advantage of the above average penetration and quickness of Kyrie, and the passing/3-pt/versatility/rolls/lobs of Love and James. Those players create advantages and mismatches so you want to force their defenders to rotate and be on their heels. The 2-guard should be spacing in the corners and get a lot of dirty buckets on cuts and sneak plays because so much is focused on the big-3. Same with the Varejao who should primarily be screening and also cutting to the hoop for offensive boards and buckets at the rim. Early aggression into the lane and attacking the bucket should give Love/Kyrie/LeBron a few extra inches from the defenders and open up the 3 as the game progresses.

Agreed. I don't see, after 3 games, how anyone can say Irving and James don't work well together. Sounds a bit like a reach, perhaps in an attempt to prove a previous point or just find a way to get down on Kyrie (which I have the distinct feeling will be a constant theme throughout this NBA season).

But since I can't read minds I'll leave it at that. :D

DavidBenAkiva
11-05-2014, 01:40 PM
And Rivers had a solid 12 points off the bench.

Rivers is having a quiet and very solid start to the season. He is not shooting the 3 ball very well at this time, so there's chance for improvement. Still, he is shooting over 50% from the floor and is contributing with assists, too. It's just four games, but Rivers could cement himself as a long-time rotation player in the NBA if he continues this trend. The Pelicans have a great frontcourt with Davis and Asik. They have the talent to get to the playoffs in a loaded Western Conference. If Rivers can be a primary bench guy for this team, he might stick in the Association.

CDu
11-05-2014, 02:49 PM
Agreed. I don't see, after 3 games, how anyone can say Irving and James don't work well together. Sounds a bit like a reach, perhaps in an attempt to prove a previous point or just find a way to get down on Kyrie (which I have the distinct feeling will be a constant theme throughout this NBA season).

But since I can't read minds I'll leave it at that. :D

Cute. No compelling need for me to prove a point; Irving is doing that for me on his own so far. ;) (or :( depending on whether you look at it from Duke's perspective or NBA perspective)

I can't see how after the 3 games so far one could say that James and Irving work well together. Through 3 games, James is shooting 40.4% from the field (eFG% of .439) and Irving is shooting 34.7% from the field (eFG% of .378) with 30 assists to 23 turnovers. And in the two games I've seen, the two haven't looked comfortable at all playing alongside one another. And two of those opponents (the Knicks and Trail Blazers) aren't exactly known for playing good defense. Hardly compelling evidence that they pair well together, no?

Sure, it's very early in the season. They may well figure it out, but that remains to be seen. Irving has never had to defer to a more off-ball role and neither has James. In Miami, it took Wade submitting to James' command for them to work. Even then, I never felt that, when push comes to shove, the two brought out the best in one another on the court. They always seemed like two individuals who were forced to coexist in the same space rather than two guys who could play off each other well.

So far, I'm seeing the same sort of thing from the James/Irving pairing. Right now they are playing in silos and don't seem to bring out each other's strengths. That's not to say that they can't/won't ultimately figure it out. But I think it's a very fair question to wonder if two ball-dominant players (neither of whom appear comfortable playing off the ball) are a good pairing in terms of skill set.

CDu
11-05-2014, 02:57 PM
Rivers is having a quiet and very solid start to the season. He is not shooting the 3 ball very well at this time, so there's chance for improvement. Still, he is shooting over 50% from the floor and is contributing with assists, too. It's just four games, but Rivers could cement himself as a long-time rotation player in the NBA if he continues this trend. The Pelicans have a great frontcourt with Davis and Asik. They have the talent to get to the playoffs in a loaded Western Conference. If Rivers can be a primary bench guy for this team, he might stick in the Association.

I've always felt that Rivers could easily fill a second-unit scoring guard role in the NBA if he could just figure things out. His limitation is similar to what Sulaimon is going through in that he wasn't the best decision maker off the dribble and didn't always play well within a offensive system (a freelance player). Hopefully this start is evidence that he's maturing as a player. It would be great for him to make it.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-05-2014, 03:05 PM
The Rockets won a strange game. The Heat were in it all game, but I think Spo had his eyes set on tonight at Charlotte. Justin Hamilton saw the most minutes of any player and it seemed that he rested Bosh and Wade more than he would typically for a game he really wanted to win. Its a long season and I get the strategy especially as short handed as the Heat are right now. No Grainger, Birdman, or Haslem and McBob is on minutes restrictions of no more than 10 minutes, which was confirmed by SPO. So onto the Devils, Deng played well and looked good the whole first half, then he trailed off in the second as did the whole team. McRoberts only played 6 minutes and was a non factor, and his signature play was a frustration foul at mid court giving the Rockets 2 easy points. He seems like hes pushing too hard while hes out there, he knows he only has around ten minutes to do something positive so he tries to make everything happen at once. He almost caught an Alley but it was swatted away by Howard. Andre got in at the end and took a long three which clanked of the back iron. I think they bounce back tonight, should be a good game and you know the Hornets will be looking for some pay back. I think the Heat have won 20 in a row or something crazy like that. I might have heard that wrong on the radio last night so forgive me if im wrong.

Des Esseintes
11-05-2014, 11:38 PM
Is anyone else surprised how tough Jabari has found the sledding thus far? After summer league, I had a few doubts that he would be as effortless an NBA scorer in his rookie season as many of us thought back in, say, January. But I never expected him to be five games into his career and still have failed to score more points than shots taken in *any* of them. I believe he'll settle down, of course; smart observers say his decisiveness and fluidity are terrific yet. It's odd, though, right? The standard fan homer thing is to complain about the coaching, and since I find Jason Kidd loathsome, I would love for that to be the answer....

DukieInBrasil
11-06-2014, 12:36 AM
Is anyone else surprised how tough Jabari has found the sledding thus far? After summer league, I had a few doubts that he would be as effortless an NBA scorer in his rookie season as many of us thought back in, say, January. But I never expected him to be five games into his career and still have failed to score more points than shots taken in *any* of them. I believe he'll settle down, of course; smart observers say his decisiveness and fluidity are terrific yet. It's odd, though, right? The standard fan homer thing is to complain about the coaching, and since I find Jason Kidd loathsome, I would love for that to be the answer....

I find it completely unsurprising. He's a 19 yr old rookie. He'll adjust.

ice-9
11-06-2014, 01:31 AM
So far, I'm seeing the same sort of thing from the James/Irving pairing. Right now they are playing in silos and don't seem to bring out each other's strengths. That's not to say that they can't/won't ultimately figure it out. But I think it's a very fair question to wonder if two ball-dominant players (neither of whom appear comfortable playing off the ball) are a good pairing in terms of skill set.

I think the worst case scenario is a repeat of Westbrook and Durant in OKC. I.e., two high scoring, ball dominant players who are actually relatively efficient scorers but maybe don't create much additional synergy.

The reality is in the NBA you need at least three players you can count on to reliably score 15-20 points every game, so I'm not sure asking Kyrie to change his game is necessarily the right way to go.

Moreover, Kyrie typically scores on drives and three pointers -- it's not like he's a Kobe where once he goes into offense mode everything else stops for a few seconds as Kobe backs an opponent down to take a fadeaway jumper. I.e. Kyrie's points don't usually come at the expense of offensive motion. That said, 0-assist games shouldn't be acceptable for Kyrie.

The trick is for LeBron to be LeBron, and Kyrie to be Kyrie, but melding the two in such a way that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It took half a season to achieve that in Miami, so I'd expect the same with the Cavs.

My greater concern is not how they fit on offense -- that'll surely come in time -- but rather how the Cavs fit together on defense. They're just not a very good defensive team right now, especially in the first half of the game today in Utah where they allowed the Jazz to shoot a high percentage. The Cavs tightened things up in the third quarter and looked a lot better, so there's hope.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-06-2014, 07:24 AM
It was a tough loss last night in Charlotte for the Heat. Another 3rd quarter run did the Heat in. They managed to get the score withing 4 points in the final two minutes of the game, however Dwade had a pass slip out of Bosh's hands, not sure if he wasn't ready for it or he just made a bone head play. Seemed like an easy pass to catch. They got a stop after the turnover but a drive by Chalmers was met with good defense and he missed the lay up. Hes gotta finish that play and not expect a foul at that point in the game. As far as the Dukies go Josh McRoberts looked the best he has looked all year playing only 8 minutes which is the plan for now. Spo is easing him back into regular playing time and is in no rush to start playing him 20-30 minutes a game. Loul Deng had 9 points 3 boards and 2 steals and is still finding his role on this team, you get the feeling at times that he is ready to have a spectacular game but then he just disappears for long stretches. Unfortunately Andre saw no playing time however he traveled with the team and suited up so it seems like he will not be going to the D League and he is a solid member of this team whether he gets playing time or not.

On the Hornets side Gerald Henderson started and played 18 minutes, he had 4 points 3 assists and 3 boards to go with a steal.

Other Dukies in action last night

Mason had 2 points, 4 boards a steal and an assist in only 13 minutes of play the Nets lost to the Wolves and Andrew Wiggins had a really good game

Kyle Singler had a rebound in 13 minutes of play as the pistons beat the Knicks

Mike Dunleavy had 12 points 2 boards and 3 assists while Jabari Parker had 8 points and 6 boards, The Bulls beat the Bucks

Elton Brand did not play in the Hawks loss to the Spurs

Miles Plumlee had 2 points 2 boards and 2 blocks and the Suns got wrecked by the Grizz

Kyrie had 34 points and 0 assists, Rodney Hood had 6 points 5 boards a steal and an assist helping the jazz beat the Cavs by 2. On as non Duke note Gordon Hayward had 21 points 4 boards 7 assists and a block, dude has really made himself into a player at the next level. I am very impressed with his play and think he is worthy of all star votes this year especially if he keeps having games like this. Combined with Derrick Favors the Jazz are a draft pick or a free agent away from being really really good.

JJ had 12 points and 1 board, and shot much better at 50%, Seth Currys big brother scored 28 points also shooting 50% from the field but added 6 rebounds and 7 assists.

I think that's about it, only 2 games tonight and there will be no Duke Players in action at all tonight in the NBA

94duke
11-06-2014, 09:19 AM
It was a tough loss last night in Charlotte for the Heat. Another 3rd quarter run did the Heat in. They managed to get the score withing 4 points in the final two minutes of the game, however Dwade had a pass slip out of Bosh's hands, not sure if he wasn't ready for it or he just made a bone head play. Seemed like an easy pass to catch. They got a stop after the turnover but a drive by Chalmers was met with good defense and he missed the lay up. Hes gotta finish that play and not expect a foul at that point in the game. As far as the Dukies go Josh McRoberts looked the best he has looked all year playing only 8 minutes which is the plan for now. Spo is easing him back into regular playing time and is in no rush to start playing him 20-30 minutes a game. Loul Deng had 9 points 3 boards and 2 steals and is still finding his role on this team, you get the feeling at times that he is ready to have a spectacular game but then he just disappears for long stretches. Unfortunately Andre saw no playing time however he traveled with the team and suited up so it seems like he will not be going to the D League and he is a solid member of this team whether he gets playing time or not.

On the Hornets side Gerald Henderson started and played 18 minutes, he had 4 points 3 assists and 3 boards to go with a steal.

Other Dukies in action last night

Mason had 2 points, 4 boards a steal and an assist in only 13 minutes of play the Nets lost to the Wolves and Andrew Wiggins had a really good game

Kyle Singler had a rebound in 13 minutes of play as the pistons beat the Knicks

Mike Dunleavy had 12 points 2 boards and 3 assists while Jabari Parker had 8 points and 6 boards, The Bulls beat the Bucks

Elton Brand did not play in the Hawks loss to the Spurs

Miles Plumlee had 2 points 2 boards and 2 blocks and the Suns got wrecked by the Grizz

Kyrie had 34 points and 0 assists, Rodney Hood had 6 points 5 boards a steal and an assist helping the jazz beat the Cavs by 2. On as non Duke note Gordon Hayward had 21 points 4 boards 7 assists and a block, dude has really made himself into a player at the next level. I am very impressed with his play and think he is worthy of all star votes this year especially if he keeps having games like this. Combined with Derrick Favors the Jazz are a draft pick or a free agent away from being really really good.

JJ had 12 points and 1 board, and shot much better at 50%, Seth Currys big brother scored 28 points also shooting 50% from the field but added 6 rebounds and 7 assists.

I think that's about it, only 2 games tonight and there will be no Duke Players in action at all tonight in the NBA

On a side note, I'm glad Hayward hit this buzzer beater and not, you know, that other one. ;-)
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/11/5/7166069/gordon-hayward-buzzer-beater-cavaliers

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-06-2014, 10:27 AM
Josh McRoberts is practicing full time starting today, or the next day that the Heat go full practice. Spo said this means he will lift the 10 Minute restriction on his playing time since he will finally get a chance to be placed in the system in non walk through action. Doubt it means he will start just yet as Shawne Williams has been nailing threes like and looking almost Battieresqe. Also Loul Deng was injured last night and it limited his minutes and play, he will have the next few days off to recover. Spo said Birdman, McRoberts, Deng and possibly Haslem will all be ready by Saturday. We shall see.

Also here in South Florida they are killing the Cavs on Sport Radio, especially Waiters and KI. They are calling them the Anti Spurs, since last night as a team they only had 6 assists or something crazy like that. Chris Paul is on track to have more assists this season than the Cavs as a team. I don't know if that statement is true or not, but it sure seems like it. They need to trade Waiters as soon as they can is the popular opinion around here.

kAzE
11-06-2014, 11:43 AM
Josh McRoberts is practicing full time starting today, or the next day that the Heat go full practice. Spo said this means he will lift the 10 Minute restriction on his playing time since he will finally get a chance to be placed in the system in non walk through action. Doubt it means he will start just yet as Shawne Williams has been nailing threes like and looking almost Battieresqe. Also Loul Deng was injured last night and it limited his minutes and play, he will have the next few days off to recover. Spo said Birdman, McRoberts, Deng and possibly Haslem will all be ready by Saturday. We shall see.

Also here in South Florida they are killing the Cavs on Sport Radio, especially Waiters and KI. They are calling them the Anti Spurs, since last night as a team they only had 6 assists or something crazy like that. Chris Paul is on track to have more assists this season than the Cavs as a team. I don't know if that statement is true or not, but it sure seems like it. They need to trade Waiters as soon as they can is the popular opinion around here.

No argument from me . . . Waiters needs to go. He's got talent, but we need more defense on the wings, not another ball dominant shoot first guard who can't defend. What we really need is a 3 and D guy on the wing who can be trusted to be out there in crunch time. I like Matthew Dellevadova as a 10th or 11th man, but when he's on the court for the last 5 minutes in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line, that's not exactly ideal. Signing Ray Allen would help to an extent, but his defense isn't going to to be great at this point in his career either.

If we could work out a deal to get any of these guys for Waiters, I'd do it immediately: Danny Green, Terrence Ross, Iman Shumpert, Courtney Lee, Avery Bradley, maybe even Ben McLemore.

CDu
11-06-2014, 11:58 AM
No argument from me . . . Waiters needs to go. He's got talent, but we need more defense on the wings, not another ball dominant shoot first guard who can't defend. What we really need is a 3 and D guy on the wing who can be trusted to be out there in crunch time. I like Matthew Dellevadova as a 10th or 11th man, but when he's on the court for the last 5 minutes in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line, that's not exactly ideal. Signing Ray Allen would help to an extent, but his defense isn't going to to be great at this point in his career either.

If we could work out a deal to get any of these guys for Waiters, I'd do it immediately: Danny Green, Terrence Ross, Iman Shumpert, Courtney Lee, Avery Bradley, maybe even Ben McLemore.

I agree. A 3 and D SG and a defensive specialist at C would cure most if not all ills. I would dangle Waiters and Thompson like yesterday to make that happen.

theAlaskanBear
11-06-2014, 12:41 PM
I agree. A 3 and D SG and a defensive specialist at C would cure most if not all ills. I would dangle Waiters and Thompson like yesterday to make that happen.

I would have agreed last year about Thompson, but he is the one guy off the bench who has shown consistent fire and effort and his ability to get his offense out of offensive rebounds rather than set plays is a huge plus. Besides, they already are not deep enough down low, they need more big depth not to trade a big for a big.

The bench for the Cavs has been a disaster thus far, but that should not be too unexpected when the starters don't have defined roles and the starting rotation is in flux. Mike Miller has been atrocious, Marion has played ok D but can't hit a shot to save his life, I'm not sure I have seen James Jones get off the bench. Theoretically, Alex Kirk and Haywood could be serviceable backups down low but one is a rookie and one has 12 years on his legs. And to top things off, their only quality backup PG -- Dellavedova -- is going to be out for up to six weeks with a grade II MCL sprain.

I was hugely disappointed the Cavs didn't target younger bench players when they decided to trade away Wiggins and Bennett. Guys like Al-Farouq Aminu, Withey, went for very inexpensive deals. I would have loved for them to bring back Shaun Livingstone. I have a feeling that after the season you might see Blatt use his connections to pull some European/Israeli league players over here. Maybe they could find some value out of guys like Toney Douglas, Earl Clark, Chris Singleton, Joel Anthony.

Henderson
11-06-2014, 01:29 PM
LeBron speaks truth to Kyrie (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11831408/lebron-james-kyrie-irving-reportedly-exchange-words-state-cleveland-cavaliers-offense).

Pass the ball. I think that's the message.

CDu
11-06-2014, 03:44 PM
I would have agreed last year about Thompson, but he is the one guy off the bench who has shown consistent fire and effort and his ability to get his offense out of offensive rebounds rather than set plays is a huge plus. Besides, they already are not deep enough down low, they need more big depth not to trade a big for a big.

The bench for the Cavs has been a disaster thus far, but that should not be too unexpected when the starters don't have defined roles and the starting rotation is in flux. Mike Miller has been atrocious, Marion has played ok D but can't hit a shot to save his life, I'm not sure I have seen James Jones get off the bench. Theoretically, Alex Kirk and Haywood could be serviceable backups down low but one is a rookie and one has 12 years on his legs. And to top things off, their only quality backup PG -- Dellavedova -- is going to be out for up to six weeks with a grade II MCL sprain.

I was hugely disappointed the Cavs didn't target younger bench players when they decided to trade away Wiggins and Bennett. Guys like Al-Farouq Aminu, Withey, went for very inexpensive deals. I would have loved for them to bring back Shaun Livingstone. I have a feeling that after the season you might see Blatt use his connections to pull some European/Israeli league players over here. Maybe they could find some value out of guys like Toney Douglas, Earl Clark, Chris Singleton, Joel Anthony.

No disagreement with any of this (especially your last two paragraphs). Aside from getting James and Love, I think the Cavs dropped the ball in getting the right complementary pieces for their big three.

And I do agree that Thompson has been a gamer for the Cavs this year. My point about Thompson was not that they should get rid of him. I just view Waiters and Thompson as the only commodities with which they could acquire that 3 and D player and post defender that I think they need. Varejao is too pricey and injury-prone to be of value in a trade (and frankly, they still need him anyway). Marion and Miller fall in a similar category. And nothing on the roster below those guys will get a sniff from other teams. So in order to get anyone of quality via trade, that leaves Waiters and Thompson as the only expendable assets.

Otherwise, it is dumpster diving and hoping for a diamond in the rough.

superdave
11-06-2014, 03:59 PM
Kyrie had 34 points and 0 assists


In 44+ minutes. That is basketball malpractice. He took 5 more FG attempts than the best player on planet earth.

Is he not thinking or is he a big dummy?

kAzE
11-06-2014, 04:02 PM
No disagreement with any of this (especially your last two paragraphs). Aside from getting James and Love, I think the Cavs dropped the ball in getting the right complementary pieces for their big three.

And I do agree that Thompson has been a gamer for the Cavs this year. My point about Thompson was not that they should get rid of him. I just view Waiters and Thompson as the only commodities with which they could acquire that 3 and D player and post defender that I think they need. Varejao is too pricey and injury-prone to be of value in a trade (and frankly, they still need him anyway). Marion and Miller fall in a similar category. And nothing on the roster below those guys will get a sniff from other teams. So in order to get anyone of quality via trade, that leaves Waiters and Thompson as the only expendable assets.

Otherwise, it is dumpster diving and hoping for a diamond in the rough.

To be fair, I believe (although with no proof) that LeBron was the guy who engineered the trade for Love. According to his "I'm coming home" letter, he specifically wanted to keep Waiters and Thompson around. I still think I would rather have somehow kept Either Bennett or Wiggins around and worked Waiters into that trade instead. Bennett has looked pretty good thus far this year. Perhaps still not living up to expectations as the #1 overall pick, but the Cavs sold too low on him, in my opinion. I wish they would have waited to make the Love deal until closer to the trade deadline. Nobody else was going to blow Minnesota away with that kind of offer.

Duvall
11-06-2014, 04:07 PM
In 44+ minutes. That is basketball malpractice. He took 5 more FG attempts than the best player on planet earth.

Is he not thinking or is he a big dummy?

Depends on how many times he passed to a teammate that subsequently missed.

CDu
11-06-2014, 04:26 PM
To be fair, I believe (although with no proof) that LeBron was the guy who engineered the trade for Love. According to his "I'm coming home" letter, he specifically wanted to keep Waiters and Thompson around. I still think I would rather have somehow kept Either Bennett or Wiggins around and worked Waiters into that trade instead. Bennett has looked pretty good thus far this year. Perhaps still not living up to expectations as the #1 overall pick, but the Cavs sold too low on him, in my opinion. I wish they would have waited to make the Love deal until closer to the trade deadline. Nobody else was going to blow Minnesota away with that kind of offer.

Well, I don't think Wiggins and Bennett would really address the problem. Wiggins may eventually be a useful 3 and D guy, but he's not a 3 threat yet and it'll take him time (probably a few years) to figure out the NBA game defensively. And Bennett, while talented, plays the same spot as either James or Love/Thompson.

I actually have little problem with the trade itself. I think they got good value on that deal by getting, by far, the best player in it. My issue was more with the Marion/Miller/Jones acquisitions and not addressing the need for a 3 and D guy (they got the "3" or the "D", but not both with the Marion/Miller/Jones triumvirate) or the defensive presence in the post.

It may very well be that LeBron forced the Cavs' hands on all of those deals. Either way, somebody dropped the ball in terms of roster construction for this season.

superdave
11-06-2014, 04:27 PM
Depends on how many times he passed to a teammate that subsequently missed.

Even still, he is the point guard. It is his job to get them better shots.

Kyrie better grow up because I will personally be upset with him if he wastes a season of Lebron's career because he is too hard-headed to pass the ball.

superdave
11-06-2014, 04:29 PM
Well, I don't think Wiggins and Bennett would really address the problem. Wiggins may eventually be a useful 3 and D guy, but he's not a 3 threat yet and it'll take him time (probably a few years) to figure out the NBA game defensively. And Bennett, while talented, plays the same spot as either James or Love/Thompson.

I actually have little problem with the trade itself. I think they got good value on that deal by getting, by far, the best player in it. My issue was more with the Marion/Miller/Jones acquisitions and not addressing the need for a 3 and D guy (they got the "3" or the "D", but not both with the Marion/Miller/Jones triumvirate) or the defensive presence in the post.

It may very well be that LeBron forced the Cavs' hands on all of those deals. Either way, somebody dropped the ball in terms of roster construction for this season.

Dion Waiters for Iman Shumpert and a little salary filler. Problem solved. Taking Waiters out of the equation would help on a number of fronts.

_Gary
11-06-2014, 04:38 PM
Even still, he is the point guard. It is his job to get them better shots.

Kyrie better grow up because I will personally be upset with him if he wastes a season of Lebron's career because he is too hard-headed to pass the ball.

I've got NBA League Pass and watch every Cavs game. While I'm not going to say Kyrie is a PG in the mold of Chris Paul, he passes the ball just fine. Believe it or not, he set up his teammates numerous times last night at Utah and the guys either missed the shot, took a dribble to get a better shot (thereby eliminating an assist for Kyrie) or over-passed to someone else (again, eliminating a chance for an assist for Kyrle).

This is why just looking at a box score doesn't mean much to me. Unless you've watched an entire game, and paid attention to a particular player (like I do with Kyrie), you can't really judge accurately. Can and does he need to get better in this part of his game? Sure. But he's not the ball hog some are making him out to be. He does try and set teammates up. I still look for his numbers to rise as the Cavs get out on the break more and learn to play with one another.

And I'm with everyone else that Waiters has to go. He's not helping one bit.

CDu
11-06-2014, 04:43 PM
Depends on how many times he passed to a teammate that subsequently missed.

I could maybe agree if he only got 3 or 4 assists in a game as a result of his teammates missing shots. But when you have Love and James on your team and a good shooter like Mike Miller and you still wind up with 0 assists over a 6-quarter stretch (no assists in the second half of the Portland game either), that's on the PG not on the teammates.


Even still, he is the point guard. It is his job to get them better shots.

Kyrie better grow up because I will personally be upset with him if he wastes a season of Lebron's career because he is too hard-headed to pass the ball.

Agreed. I didn't see the Utah game, but I did see the Portland game. And in the second half (especially in the fourth quarter), Irving was going one-on-one and forcing up mostly long jumpers (two shots in the second half inside of 15 feet) and not making any effort to get his teammates the ball in scoring position. It's one thing to simply pass the ball around the perimeter or dump in the initial entry pass. But as a PG of Irving's skill, that's pretty vanilla stuff (that's what I'd expect out of Dellavedova or Hinrich).

In the Utah game I can understand a lower assist total because Irving was killing it with his scoring game (12-23 and 34 points). But he's still the PG and he still has two of the top 5 offensive players in the league on his team. It would behoove him and the team to work the ball around some as well. And of course when he's struggling like he did against Portland, he needs to pass more rather than continuing to jack up contested jumpers.

It's always tough for a young guy who is a capable scorer and alpha dog personality like Irving to balance the desire to score with the need to spread the ball around. And I suspect that the talking-to that LeBron gave him will help in the long run. But Irving is going to need to understand that he's #3 in the talent pecking order on this team. And his life will be a LOT easier if he gets James and Love theirs. If those guys are scoring they'll make his scoring job much easier.

CDu
11-06-2014, 04:48 PM
Dion Waiters for Iman Shumpert and a little salary filler. Problem solved. Taking Waiters out of the equation would help on a number of fronts.

Shumpert would certainly fit better. But I don't think he is quite what Cleveland needs because he can't shoot. That said, it would certainly be a step in the right direction, and is certainly the type of deal that I would be looking at if I were the Cleveland GM.

moonpie23
11-06-2014, 04:49 PM
hey guys......Has that link for the DUKE PLAYERS IN THE NBA (huckleberry?) been re-upped?

Des Esseintes
11-06-2014, 05:04 PM
Shumpert would certainly fit better. But I don't think he is quite what Cleveland needs because he can't shoot. That said, it would certainly be a step in the right direction, and is certainly the type of deal that I would be looking at if I were the Cleveland GM.

3-and-D is obviously what the Cavs need, but I guess, if we are critiquing their roster's end acquistions, I would question what guys of that type were available for what Cleveland could spend? 3-and-D is universally sought after now, and even though those guys have limited skillsets, they tend to get paid for those skillsets. Who should they have signed?

kAzE
11-06-2014, 05:14 PM
Well, I don't think Wiggins and Bennett would really address the problem. Wiggins may eventually be a useful 3 and D guy, but he's not a 3 threat yet and it'll take him time (probably a few years) to figure out the NBA game defensively. And Bennett, while talented, plays the same spot as either James or Love/Thompson.

I actually have little problem with the trade itself. I think they got good value on that deal by getting, by far, the best player in it. My issue was more with the Marion/Miller/Jones acquisitions and not addressing the need for a 3 and D guy (they got the "3" or the "D", but not both with the Marion/Miller/Jones triumvirate) or the defensive presence in the post.

It may very well be that LeBron forced the Cavs' hands on all of those deals. Either way, somebody dropped the ball in terms of roster construction for this season.

No, I'm not saying they would have helped specifically in these areas, but if they had stayed on the roster and played well, the Cavs might have been able to squeeze a bit more out of the deal, maybe somehow pry Gorgui Dieng from Minny or somebody useful from Philly as part of the 3 way deal (maybe KJ McDaniels or Hollis Thompson).

-jk
11-06-2014, 06:07 PM
LeBron speaks truth to Kyrie (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11831408/lebron-james-kyrie-irving-reportedly-exchange-words-state-cleveland-cavaliers-offense).

Pass the ball. I think that's the message.

Time for a conference call with K...

-jk

_Gary
11-06-2014, 06:48 PM
Okay, keep ignoring me at your own peril, guys. I thought you all would have learned after the FIBA games this summer. :p

In all seriousness, Kyrie is a shoot first PG and he will have to adjust now that he's actually got talent around him. But I'm telling you he's set some of his guys up and they just aren't hitting. The Cavs shooting percentage (overall and 3-point) is way below what it should be for them. It's not all on Kyrie. Have you guys seen some of the shots Lebron has missed this year? Sure, he hit a tough one last night to keep them close at the end, but he's missed a heck of a lot of chippies that he normally makes. I still say he's not the same guy I've been used to seeing over the last decade. As soon as these guys gel they'll be fine and all this nonsense talk (which I think at least one poster here is loving) will be a distant dream. :D

grad_devil
11-06-2014, 07:41 PM
As a reminder, I host a simple page that posts the stats from the previous night's games for our Devils in the NBA (http://huckleberry.mhu.edu/devilStats.html). It's not updated in real time, but after all of the games for that night have finished.

Out of 12 Devils playing last night, raise your hand if you thought you'd see Lance Thomas at the top of the ratings list? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Congratulations to Lance - here's to many more!


hey guys......Has that link for the DUKE PLAYERS IN THE NBA (huckleberry?) been re-upped?

You know it!

Remember, it doesn't update in real time, but after the night's games have been played (usually after midnight, definitely by the next morning).

CDu
11-06-2014, 08:25 PM
You know it!

Remember, it doesn't update in real time, but after the night's games have been played (usually after midnight, definitely by the next morning).

Wow, I just saw this site. Great stuff!

grad_devil
11-07-2014, 09:22 AM
Wow, I just saw this site. Great stuff!

Glad you can use it, and glad you found it! I try to post the link at the beginning of every season - and JBDuke even put it in the sticky thread, I believe - but there's so much volume on this site, it's easy to see how it gets missed.

Your post prompted me to see how long I've been compiling these stats- and it looks like I started (or at least started saving the archived data) in the 2008-2009 season. I decided to post links to the archived data, just in case anyone was interested. It's now in the footer of each page, starting with this season. Click the link in my signature, and see what you think!

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-07-2014, 12:04 PM
Its a Big Night of hoops with a lot of Dukies in action. Heres hoping they all have career highs in all stat categories. The big match up is Jabari vs Singler with the Pistons hosting the Bucks. We also get Gerald Henderson taking on Elton Brand when Atlanta visiting Charlotte. Mason welcomes the Knicks to Brooklyn, Lance and the Thunder have a tough game against the Grizz, Miles Plumlee welcomes the Kings and much more mature Demarcus Cousins (thanks to Coach K;)) to Phoenix. Rodney Hood and the Jazz welcome Dirk and the Mavs in the game of the night IMO. Finally we wrap it up with Kyrie going head to head with Ty Lawson in a battle of who is faster with the ball going coast to coast. Should be a fun night besides the Jazz Mavs match up I don't really see any games I must watch, if KD and Westbrook were healthy the game against the Grizz would be must see TV for NBA fans. I guess Washington and Toronto will be a good game but I just cant buy into DC as a contender yet. Have fun watching folks, and forgive me if I missed a Duke player who is playing tonight.

theAlaskanBear
11-07-2014, 04:10 PM
In 44+ minutes. That is basketball malpractice. He took 5 more FG attempts than the best player on planet earth.

Is he not thinking or is he a big dummy?

As someone who watched every minute of the CLE-Utah game, the Cavs were getting blown out, slaughtered, annihilated. Kyrie didn't come out gunning from the start. James got a few quick shots off (misses) and then they started to establish Kevin Love. Irving only had 9 attempts at half-time, and CLE was getting slapped around. Irving kept them in the game in the second half, and while I did see him take a 2-3 bad shots, he didn't play a bad game. He played good defense, and other than James was the only offense Cleveland had. The Cavs were disorganized and Love shot very poorly after 5 quick points in the first quarter.

The Cavs need better ball movement, but it's a team problem not a Kyrie problem. James has been turning the ball over like crazy, has been tentative passing -- he is averaging 4.5 turnovers a game and just 4.5 ast. The biggest problem is the bench -- only 3 players saw action and they only scored 13 points.

CDu
11-07-2014, 04:23 PM
As someone who watched every minute of the CLE-Utah game, the Cavs were getting blown out, slaughtered, annihilated. Kyrie didn't come out gunning from the start. James got a few quick shots off (misses) and then they started to establish Kevin Love. Irving only had 9 attempts at half-time, and CLE was getting slapped around. Irving kept them in the game in the second half, and while I did see him take a 2-3 bad shots, he didn't play a bad game. He played good defense, and other than James was the only offense Cleveland had. The Cavs were disorganized and Love shot very poorly after 5 quick points in the first quarter.

The Cavs need better ball movement, but it's a team problem not a Kyrie problem. James has been turning the ball over like crazy, has been tentative passing -- he is averaging 4.5 turnovers a game and just 4.5 ast. The biggest problem is the bench -- only 3 players saw action and they only scored 13 points.

Yeah, I heard on ESPN that the Cavs currently lead the league by a wide margin in percentage of iso possessions and are bttom of the league in passes made. I guess that isn't all that surprising since their three primary ballhandlers are all naturally iso players and their two best ballhandlers are trying to figure out how to coexist. But that is certainly a problem and one that they will need to resolve.

Here's an interesting take from a Cavs fan:
http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=28808

kAzE
11-07-2014, 04:33 PM
Yeah, I heard on ESPN that the Cavs currently lead the league by a wide margin in percentage of iso possessions and are bttom of the league in passes made. I guess that isn't all that surprising since their three primary ballhandlers are all naturally iso players and their two best ballhandlers are trying to figure out how to coexist. But that is certainly a problem and one that they will need to resolve.

Well, I'm not even a little bit worried about it yet. If they lose to the nuggets, I might have to raise an eyebrow, but I fully expected a rough start. This isn't college, NBA teams that have had a major change to their core often don't become good for awhile. The best teams are the ones that have had some continuity. (The Spurs) So, it will be a process, one that I believe will take longer than this first season to get to the point where they are elite, even on offense.

I'm honestly shocked that anyone who considers themselves an "expert" believes the Cavs are the favorites to win the title this year. It's certainly within the realm of possibility, but in my opinion, they are a rim protector and a shooter/wing defender from being an elite team right now. More importantly, their bench is horrendous. If LeBron and Kyrie play 40+ minutes a night, good luck getting anything out of them in June. An ideal NBA team needs about 10 reliable players to be in the regular season rotation, to cut down on starters' minutes and to compensate for injuries. Cleveland has maybe 7 . . . and most of them only impact the game on 1 end of the court. This team won't win a championship with this roster as it's currently constructed. Sign Jesus Shuttlesworth and deal Waiters ASAP, then we can re-evaluate.

kAzE
11-07-2014, 11:33 PM
Yeah, I think the team context has to factor in as well. Waiters is more of a lead guard than an off-ball player. But with three ball-dominant players in front of him in the rotation, I'd argue that he might not even be the best choice as 4th option on the Cavs.

Conversely, he might be the third option (battling with Butler and Noah) if he played for the Bulls. Just depends on the system you're in.

As far as 4th options go, I would say the following players top Waiters:
- Parsons/Nelson (Dallas)
- Diaw/Leonard (San Antonio)
- Redick/Jordan (LA Clippers)
- Green/Morris/Thomas (Phoenix)
- Batum/Matthews (Portland)
- Gortat/Nene/Miller/Pierce (Washington)

And the following are comparable:
- Henderson/Neal (Charlotte)
- Drummond (Detroit)
- Williams/Johnson/Valenciunas (Toronto)

Of course, that's kind of splitting hairs, because Cleveland clearly has the best 1st option in James and best 3rd option in Irving, and possibly the best (at least top-3) 2nd option in Love. So it's okay that Waiters isn't really the best 4th option - they'll still be REALLY good offensively.

With 5:00 to go in the 1st half of this Denver game: Waiters has 9 shot attempts, james/Love/irving have 10 shot attempts combined. Waiters = worst first option in the league?

CDu
11-07-2014, 11:37 PM
With 5:00 to go in the 1st half of this Denver game: Waiters has 9 shot attempts, james/Love/irving have 10 shot attempts combined. Waiters = worst first option in the league?

Haha!

I am impressed by two things tonight: James passing up a storm, and how bad this Denver team is. Yikes!

The Cavs seem to have gotten the message from LeBron. A ton of assists so far. Nothing like a glorified scrimmage to work out the kinks.

jipops
11-07-2014, 11:47 PM
Haha!

I am impressed by two things tonight: James passing up a storm, and how bad this Denver team is. Yikes!

The Cavs seem to have gotten the message from LeBron. A ton of assists so far. Nothing like a glorified scrimmage to work out the kinks.

With Waiters and Thompson (the suggested trade bait up thread) the leading scorers at the half.

ice-9
11-08-2014, 03:45 AM
If in the first official game that Duke plays, Tyus Jones gets 0 assists and Jahlil Okafor only takes 5 shots, are we going to starting wringing our hands?

Who I am kidding, of course we are.

Anyway, the point is that things just got started. Irving hasn't figured out how to play with everyone yet. Neither has LeBron. Neither has Love maybe. Is anyone really that surprised? Isn't this what we speculated will happen back in the summer?

Yes, Kyrie recorded 0 assists in the game against Utah. But he also averaged 6 assists per game for his NBA career. He had a bad assist game, and to use one game to paint his character in a certain way doesn't seem right. Now I'm not particularly keen to be seen as a Kyrie apologist, especially after my exchange with CDu in the other thread, but I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the guy.

In terms of roster configuration, I think the Cavs management did the best they could. Dion is actually a pretty good defender when he wants to be, and is an above average catch and shoot player. So before the season started the Cavs thought they had their 3 and D player. The problem of course is that he doesn't view himself in that light: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/07/dion-waiters-on-catching-and-shooting-thats-not-my-game/

If he doesn't want to just catch and shoot, then I do think he should come off the bench and assume a larger offensive role with the second unit.

In any case the Cavs looked much better today against the Nuggets. Sure, maybe the Nuggets aren't that great, but you can still see progress in the little things.

CDu
11-08-2014, 06:10 AM
If in the first official game that Duke plays, Tyus Jones gets 0 assists and Jahlil Okafor only takes 5 shots, are we going to starting wringing our hands?

Who I am kidding, of course we are.

Anyway, the point is that things just got started. Irving hasn't figured out how to play with everyone yet. Neither has LeBron. Neither has Love maybe. Is anyone really that surprised? Isn't this what we speculated will happen back in the summer?

Yes, Kyrie recorded 0 assists in the game against Utah. But he also averaged 6 assists per game for his NBA career. He had a bad assist game, and to use one game to paint his character in a certain way doesn't seem right. Now I'm not particularly keen to be seen as a Kyrie apologist, especially after my exchange with CDu in the other thread, but I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the guy.

In terms of roster configuration, I think the Cavs management did the best they could. Dion is actually a pretty good defender when he wants to be, and is an above average catch and shoot player. So before the season started the Cavs thought they had their 3 and D player. The problem of course is that he doesn't view himself in that light: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/07/dion-waiters-on-catching-and-shooting-thats-not-my-game/

If he doesn't want to just catch and shoot, then I do think he should come off the bench and assume a larger offensive role with the second unit.

In any case the Cavs looked much better today against the Nuggets. Sure, maybe the Nuggets aren't that great, but you can still see progress in the little things.

Despite our disagreements in the other thread, I completely agree with this. I am not able to give you rec points so this is the best I can do.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-08-2014, 07:27 AM
A big night it was especially for Mike Dunleavy and the Bulls, he led the team in scoring helping to beat Philly. He tallied 27 points 3 boards 3 assists and a block, dude was ballin out there.

In the Charlotte vs ATL game neither Elton Brand or Gerald Henderson got off the bench so no stats.

Mason played 21 minutes in a win over the Knicks, he only had 1 point but also 5 boards an assist and 3 blocks

Jabari had 18 points 5 boards 1 assist and 3 steals for the Bucks, but Detroit won with a little help from Kyle Singler's 2 points 2 boards an assist and a rebound

The OKC and Grizz played a tight game Lance started again and played for 29 minutes, he had 2 points, 6 boards and an assist

Miles Plumlee had a monster game in a losing effort to the Kings, He had 15 points 16 boards and an assist, also Shav Randolph played 8 minutes but the only stats he had were a turnover and 3 fouls.

In what I thought would be the game of the night The Mavs killed the Jazz, Rodney Hood barely played 8 minutes getting 3 boards and a steal. I think we should start looking at the Mavs as a potential finals team this year.

Finally it was discussed in length up thread so I wont rehash too much but the Cavs learned what an assist was and Kyrie had a good all around game and a Win


Tonight We Have Elton Brand sitting the bench against the Visiting Knicks

The Wolves come down to Wade County to take on The Miiiiiiamiiiiii HEAT!!!!!!! I will be in attendance and will give a full game rundown as always.

Mike Dunleavy looks to start back where he left off against the visiting Celtics

Jabari and the Bucks welcome The Grizz

Austin Rivers looks to continue looking good off the bench at the World Champs house

And JJ keeps keeping on in the Clippers house against the Blazers in what should be a really fun game.



Sunday we have Mason traveling to Orlando

Rodney Hood and Utah at Kyle Singlers Pistons

Lance looks to keep improving without KD and Westbrook against a much better Sactown

The Heat and the Three Dukies head to Dallas in a tough back to back

Miles Plumlee looks to slow down the Splash Brothers

And hopefully Gerald Henderson gets off the bench and gets some minutes at LA hopefully Ryan Kelly can do the same.


As always lets hope for career highs and amazing games from each one of our former players. Have a fun hoops weekend, oh and I guess maybe there is some football to be watched in there somewhere.

ice-9
11-08-2014, 10:51 AM
Despite our disagreements in the other thread, I completely agree with this. I am not able to give you rec points so this is the best I can do.

Cheers man, I really didn't intend the other thread to be such a big thing. It was really just a minor thought that got bigger than I wanted it to be. You're obviously one of the pillars of the DBR community, so I'm pretty much ready to move forward.

It's going to be a great season to be a Duke fan!

P.S. Tried to spork you back but have to spread the love first too.

jimsumner
11-08-2014, 11:36 AM
I'm surprised and disappointed the see Kyle Singler getting so little PT. I thought he was on the verge of taking off.

Henderson has been battling injuries. I hope that's why he's sitting.

dukelifer
11-08-2014, 12:17 PM
I'm surprised and disappointed the see Kyle Singler getting so little PT. I thought he was on the verge of taking off.

Henderson has been battling injuries. I hope that's why he's sitting.

Something about Van Gundy and Duke guys.

FerryFor50
11-08-2014, 08:12 PM
Dion is actually a pretty good defender when he wants to be, and is an above average catch and shoot player. So before the season started the Cavs thought they had their 3 and D player. The problem of course is that he doesn't view himself in that light: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/07/dion-waiters-on-catching-and-shooting-thats-not-my-game/

If he doesn't want to just catch and shoot, then I do think he should come off the bench and assume a larger offensive role with the second unit.

If Waiters doesn't want to be a catch and shoot guy on a Cavs team full of stars, perhaps he should be better at basketball.

Remember... He came off the bench in college, too. He's just not as good as he believes he is.

Cavs should trade him and be done with the headache.

FerryFor50
11-08-2014, 08:13 PM
Btw, JJ dropped 30 on 11-13 shooting tonight.

cspan37421
11-08-2014, 08:17 PM
I'm surprised and disappointed the see Kyle Singler getting so little PT. I thought he was on the verge of taking off.


That's why I think it looks a bit silly to refer to the Detroit franchise as "Kyle Singler's Pistons". And other such references.

He'll find his time. Injuries happen, starters get lazy - Kyle's a hard worker and he'll be ready when the opportunity presents itself. Remember how little Miles played in Indiana and now he what, starts for the Suns? Sometimes you have to find the right situation.

FerryFor50
11-08-2014, 08:19 PM
That's why I think it looks a bit silly to refer to the Detroit franchise as "Kyle Singler's Pistons". And other such references.

He'll find his time. Injuries happen, starters get lazy - Kyle's a hard worker and he'll be ready when the opportunity presents itself. Remember how little Miles played in Indiana and now he what, starts for the Suns? Sometimes you have to find the right situation.

Remember how much Kyle played before Van Gundy? Remember how little Redick played when he was in Orlando under Van Gundy?

Stan just isn't a Duke fan.

DukieInBrasil
11-08-2014, 08:20 PM
Btw, JJ dropped 30 on 11-13 shooting tonight.

if you count the 8 FTs as 4 possessions (tbh, i didn't watch the game, so they may not have each been a 2 FT situation) JJ scored 30 pts on 17 possessions, or an incredible 1.76 pts per possession. By far his best game of the season, or of any Duke player so far.

Also, i'm kinda perplexed at the lack of PT for Singler, who played quite well last year. Although i must admit i don't know if the roster has changed. Also, MP2's PT has taken a big hit since the first couple of games, when he played solid if unspectacular ball.

FerryFor50
11-08-2014, 08:23 PM
if you count the 8 FTs as 4 possessions (tbh, i didn't watch the game, so they may not have each been a 2 FT situation) JJ scored 30 pts on 17 possessions, or an incredible 1.76 pts per possession. By far his best game of the season, or of any Duke player so far.

Also, i'm kinda perplexed at the lack of PT for Singler, who played quite well last year. Although i must admit i don't know if the roster has changed. Also, MP2's PT has taken a big hit since the first couple of games, when he played solid if unspectacular ball.

MP2 has been impacted by the return of Alex Len.

Hard to sit a skilled 7'1" shot blocker when you play a lot of 3 guard lineups.

DukieInBrasil
11-08-2014, 08:27 PM
MP2 has been impacted by the return of Alex Len.

Hard to sit a skilled 7'1" shot blocker when you play a lot of 3 guard lineups.

MP2 is Mason, who plays for Brooklyn. MP1 is Miles, who plays with Len in PHX.

CDu
11-08-2014, 09:18 PM
MP2 is Mason, who plays for Brooklyn. MP1 is Miles, who plays with Len in PHX.

Well, I am sure that it hurts Mason's feelings to see his brother get benched. :)

FerryFor50
11-08-2014, 09:59 PM
Well, I am sure that it hurts Mason's feelings to see his brother get benched. :)

Probably hurts all of their feelings to see people use numbers instead of actual names to identify them. :)

ice-9
11-10-2014, 11:17 PM
Kyrie seems to have received LeBron's message loud and clear and poured in 9 assists in addition to 32 points and 5 rebounds in a win against Anthony Davis and the Pelicans. This is on top of the 6 assists the previous game. The Cavs just look better too; perhaps driven primarily by LeBron, who is definitely playing better.

For other Dukes in action today, Singler, Dunleavy and Rivers had solid games but did not score in double figures.

JJ still in play tonight against the Spurs...

AIRFORCEDUKIE
11-11-2014, 06:46 AM
Since I didn't get a chance to update the Heat Dukies, they had some big time plays on Sunday in a big win against the Mavs. Loul Deng was everywhere and dropped 30 points, the Heat were moving the ball so well they had something like 33 assists on 41 field goals or something. Either way it was a very high percentage of assists compared to shots made. Also Josh McRoberts showed why he is such a valuable asset with his passing and he knocked down a three. He is getting more an more playing time as he gets more comfortable even with the return of Udonis Haslem.

On a hilarious side note, Mario Chalmers has always been sort of a doesn't take crap from anyone type player or he gets into small scrums here and there because of his own doings. It seems Josh has become Rios muscle with Chris Anderson out. The last two times Ive seen Rio get into shoving matches about to get into with someone ( who always happens to be much bigger than him) McRoberts has stepped in to confront the other player. So in a way he has become the Heat's enforcer and Rios body guard. On Sunday it Tyson Chandler that Josh had to protect Rio from. So I guess we can add enforcer to McRoberts growing list of usefulness.

flyingdutchdevil
11-11-2014, 10:15 AM
Kyrie seems to have received LeBron's message loud and clear and poured in 9 assists in addition to 32 points and 5 rebounds in a win against Anthony Davis and the Pelicans. This is on top of the 6 assists the previous game. The Cavs just look better too; perhaps driven primarily by LeBron, who is definitely playing better.

For other Dukes in action today, Singler, Dunleavy and Rivers had solid games but did not score in double figures.

JJ still in play tonight against the Spurs...

Kyrie and the Cavs did what I thought they were going to do in the first half of the season: offensively destroy the other team. And it worked. The "Big Three" had 86 of the 118 Cav points, and Kevin Love only shot 13 times! Mike Miller is still off, Marion isn't providing anything offensively, and Thompson is still learning his place offensively. This team will be shockingly good offensively in a few short months.

The problem is that they are so terrible defensively. Their best defensive player - LBJ - isn't really playing defense. Kevin Love and Kyrie still can't guard their own shadows. Marion is looking really really old. They need a young, defensive 3-and-D now (and they should take a D if they can't find a 3-and-D). A rim protector would help, but it's really not as important as a perimeter defender.

CDu
11-11-2014, 10:19 AM
Kyrie seems to have received LeBron's message loud and clear and poured in 9 assists in addition to 32 points and 5 rebounds in a win against Anthony Davis and the Pelicans. This is on top of the 6 assists the previous game. The Cavs just look better too; perhaps driven primarily by LeBron, who is definitely playing better.

For other Dukes in action today, Singler, Dunleavy and Rivers had solid games but did not score in double figures.

JJ still in play tonight against the Spurs...

Definitely a major improvement from Irving last night - without a doubt his best game of the year and perhaps one of his best games as a pro. He was efficient scoring and distributing. It does appear (though in an admittedly small sample size) that Irving has taken James' constructive criticism to heart. Less iso play and more fluidity within the offense from everyone, including Irving and James (the two biggest iso culprits). Good stuff.

flyingdutchdevil
11-11-2014, 10:20 AM
Definitely a major improvement from Irving last night. It does appear (though in an admittedly small sample size) that Irving has taken James' constructive criticism to heart. Less iso play and more fluidity within the offense from everyone, including Irving and James (the two biggest iso culprits). Good stuff.

Waiters - addition by subtraction?

CDu
11-11-2014, 10:29 AM
Waiters - addition by subtraction?

Waiters definitely makes more sense on the second unit than as a third iso player with the starters. Miller/Marion fit a lot better next to Irving and James for sure.

The two biggest concerns I have moving forward are defense (as has been mentioned ad nauseum) and minutes. James has played over 40,000 minutes as a pro (not including his FIBA work over the years) and probably shouldn't be playing 40 mpg. Irving has far fewer miles on his odometer but has had a history of injuries.

Ideally, I wouldn't want those two playing more than ~36 mpg and not the 39.8 mpg (Irving) and 40.3 mpg (James) that they currently are logging. Those type of minutes are fine for the later rounds of the playoffs, but they add up over the course of a season (just as Luol Deng).

It's definitely a work in progress for David Blatt. He's starting to figure things out as he's moved Waiters to the 6th man role. I'm guessing he'll figure this out too. But it is worth monitoring.

ice-9
11-11-2014, 11:33 AM
Waiters definitely makes more sense on the second unit than as a third iso player with the starters. Miller/Marion fit a lot better next to Irving and James for sure.

The two biggest concerns I have moving forward are defense (as has been mentioned ad nauseum) and minutes. James has played over 40,000 minutes as a pro (not including his FIBA work over the years) and probably shouldn't be playing 40 mpg. Irving has far fewer miles on his odometer but has had a history of injuries.

Ideally, I wouldn't want those two playing more than ~36 mpg and not the 39.8 mpg (Irving) and 40.3 mpg (James) that they currently are logging. Those type of minutes are fine for the later rounds of the playoffs, but they add up over the course of a season (just as Luol Deng).

It's definitely a work in progress for David Blatt. He's starting to figure things out as he's moved Waiters to the 6th man role. I'm guessing he'll figure this out too. But it is worth monitoring.

I think the reason for that is Delladova, the backup PG, is injured, so there's really nobody to backup Kyrie. Waiters would typically fill that role, but with LeBron maybe there's an option there.

CDu
11-11-2014, 12:07 PM
I think the reason for that is Delladova, the backup PG, is injured, so there's really nobody to backup Kyrie. Waiters would typically fill that role, but with LeBron maybe there's an option there.

In theory that could be true. But in practice, it really hasn't been the case. Dellavedova has actually played mostly at SG this season, and mostly alongside Irving.

Irving averaged 38.22 mpg before Dellavedova went down and has averaged 41.47 since.

The real uptick in minutes has been from Miller (9.62 to 18.47 mpg) and Marion (14.39 to 28.57 mpg). Also, we've seen Joe Harris log more minutes (1.58 to 5.96 mpg) since the injury as well.

I agree that Irving isn't likely to see his minutes come down much until either Dellavedova returns or they find a suitable replacement, but that's not a good thing.

Same for James: he would be best suited long-term by playing less than the 40 mpg he is currently logging. Maybe that means a few more minutes of Miller and Marion (when Irving is on the floor of course).

ice-9
11-11-2014, 09:53 PM
In theory that could be true. But in practice, it really hasn't been the case. Dellavedova has actually played mostly at SG this season, and mostly alongside Irving.

Irving averaged 38.22 mpg before Dellavedova went down and has averaged 41.47 since.

The real uptick in minutes has been from Miller (9.62 to 18.47 mpg) and Marion (14.39 to 28.57 mpg). Also, we've seen Joe Harris log more minutes (1.58 to 5.96 mpg) since the injury as well.

I agree that Irving isn't likely to see his minutes come down much until either Dellavedova returns or they find a suitable replacement, but that's not a good thing.

Same for James: he would be best suited long-term by playing less than the 40 mpg he is currently logging. Maybe that means a few more minutes of Miller and Marion (when Irving is on the floor of course).

Agreed. This may not be deserved on Irving's part, and probably influenced by toe-gate, but I can't help but look at Irving on the frail side. I'd be more comfortable too if his minutes averaged 35 instead of 40.

DukieInBrasil
11-12-2014, 10:40 PM
LT had perhaps his most well-rounded game in the league so far, shooting a solid 3-5 FG, but 13 rebs, SIX asts!!! He's had several solid games, a couple of real stinkers, but overall is playing well as a STARTER!!!
Anybody know why Hood is not on the active roster in Utah?

duke4ever19
11-12-2014, 10:47 PM
LT had perhaps his most well-rounded game in the league so far, shooting a solid 3-5 FG, but 13 rebs, SIX asts!!! He's had several solid games, a couple of real stinkers, but overall is playing well as a STARTER!!!
Anybody know why Hood is not on the active roster in Utah?

Hood is out of the lineup tonight due to a foot injury. It doesn't sound serious, though.

Henderson
11-12-2014, 10:52 PM
Hood is out of the lineup tonight due to a foot injury. It doesn't sound serious, though.

Plantar fasciitis. He's been out 3 games now and is projected as "questionable" for Friday's game.

duke4ever19
11-12-2014, 11:18 PM
Plantar fasciitis. He's been out 3 games now and is projected as "questionable" for Friday's game.

Oh well I guess that's relatively good news, considering the alternative foot injuries out there. Hoping he gets back out there Friday.

kAzE
11-15-2014, 01:33 AM
Jabari has had a rough few games since his 18 point game a week ago . . . he's really struggling on both ends of the court right now. Tough to watch.

On the other hand, Austin Rivers might had one of the best games in his career tonight, going 8-9 from the field for 17 points. Kyrie had a big night in the crazy comeback against the Celtics too.

Oriole Way
11-15-2014, 01:46 AM
Jabari has had a rough few games since his 18 point game a week ago . . . he's really struggling on both ends of the court right now. Tough to watch.

On the other hand, Austin Rivers might had one of the best games in his career tonight, going 8-9 from the field for 17 points. Kyrie had a big night in the crazy comeback against the Celtics too.

Parker's going to have a rough rookie season, with some stretches of success here and there. He's way too much of a jump shooter at this stage of his career, he can't defend, and he exhibits poor-decision making handling the ball. He'll eventually be a great player, but it will take a couple of seasons.

Pretty amazing to see Lance Thomas balling like he is. Never thought he would have any sort of NBA career at the time he finished his Duke career. Safe to say that sentiment applies to everyone on this board. It's a testament to hard work and determination, mixed in with some requisite athleticism and skill.

theAlaskanBear
11-15-2014, 08:36 AM
There really isn't much I can add to the Duke game last night. I only caught the 2nd half and what else can be said? Wow. But I can give a run-down on some of the NBA action.

Kyrie Irving and everyone's favorite team to dissect: The Cavs played a painful game against the Celtics...until it was a really exciting comeback. The Cavs came out flat after half and were clearly not on the same page in the third quarter...sprinkle in some bad bounces, poor defense, and bad shooting, and they were down 17 heading into the fourth. Kyrie hits three 3-pointers and then sinks three free-throws from being fouled at the three in the first 3:00 minutes of the fourth. Cue the comeback. Biggest take-aways -- Mike Miller can't guard a corpse at this point in his career. The shooting guard position is a huge weakness for the Cavs, Joe Harris finished the game in place of Dion Waiters, who I can't help but feel is going to be traded this season. They could really use a guy like Gerald Henderson who is buried on the bench with the Stephenson/Williams signings in Charlotte.

Another poster mentioned Austin's last game, but he is having a terrific season all around. He is so much more confident, actually scoring at the rim, and doing a nice directing the offense as the backup PG.

Kyle Singler got hammered to the floor by Steven Adams with 10 seconds left during the Pistons-OKC game. The Pistons still won in OT but Singler should have been shooting free-throws to go ahead in the game.

The Heat lost again...Deng had 19pts but McRoberts and Dawkins didnt get off the bench. It's been a tough transition for McRoberts.

In a slightly different vein, Quin Snyder's team hit yet another game winning shot last night as time expired against the Knicks. Great for Quin and the Jazz (Hood is injured), and great to watch the Knicks sink into a hapless malaise. Karma for pushing out D'Antoni and Walsh and Dolan not being patient and unilaterally swinging the Carmelo deal. I just can't see the Knicks mattering in the next couple of years without some really lucky ping-pong balls.

ice-9
11-15-2014, 03:52 PM
There really isn't much I can add to the Duke game last night. I only caught the 2nd half and what else can be said? Wow. But I can give a run-down on some of the NBA action.

Kyrie Irving and everyone's favorite team to dissect: The Cavs played a painful game against the Celtics...until it was a really exciting comeback. The Cavs came out flat after half and were clearly not on the same page in the third quarter...sprinkle in some bad bounces, poor defense, and bad shooting, and they were down 17 heading into the fourth. Kyrie hits three 3-pointers and then sinks three free-throws from being fouled at the three in the first 3:00 minutes of the fourth. Cue the comeback. Biggest take-aways -- Mike Miller can't guard a corpse at this point in his career. The shooting guard position is a huge weakness for the Cavs, Joe Harris finished the game in place of Dion Waiters, who I can't help but feel is going to be traded this season. They could really use a guy like Gerald Henderson who is buried on the bench with the Stephenson/Williams signings in Charlotte.

Another poster mentioned Austin's last game, but he is having a terrific season all around. He is so much more confident, actually scoring at the rim, and doing a nice directing the offense as the backup PG.

Kyle Singler got hammered to the floor by Steven Adams with 10 seconds left during the Pistons-OKC game. The Pistons still won in OT but Singler should have been shooting free-throws to go ahead in the game.

The Heat lost again...Deng had 19pts but McRoberts and Dawkins didnt get off the bench. It's been a tough transition for McRoberts.

In a slightly different vein, Quin Snyder's team hit yet another game winning shot last night as time expired against the Knicks. Great for Quin and the Jazz (Hood is injured), and great to watch the Knicks sink into a hapless malaise. Karma for pushing out D'Antoni and Walsh and Dolan not being patient and unilaterally swinging the Carmelo deal. I just can't see the Knicks mattering in the next couple of years without some really lucky ping-pong balls.

I believe McRoberts was sidelined with a toe injury...

duke09hms
11-15-2014, 03:57 PM
In a slightly different vein, Quin Snyder's team hit yet another game winning shot last night as time expired against the Knicks. Great for Quin and the Jazz (Hood is injured), and great to watch the Knicks sink into a hapless malaise. Karma for pushing out D'Antoni and Walsh and Dolan not being patient and unilaterally swinging the Carmelo deal.

and the mistreatment of Jeremy Lin

Oriole Way
11-17-2014, 08:23 PM
Andre Dawkins just scored the first points of his NBA career. Fittingly, it was a 3-pointer.

coldriver10
11-17-2014, 08:44 PM
The only good thing about the Lakers (Ryan Kelly) tore his hammie last night. Sounds like he'll be out 6 weeks or so.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/los-angeles-lakers-ryan-kelly-out-for-6-weeks-with-hamstring-tear-111714

jimsumner
11-17-2014, 09:06 PM
The only good thing about the Lakers (Ryan Kelly) tore his hammie last night. Sounds like he'll be out 6 weeks or so.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/los-angeles-lakers-ryan-kelly-out-for-6-weeks-with-hamstring-tear-111714

Bad news for Ryan. Lots of Dukies being hampered by injuries this season. Hood, McRoberts, Henderson, now Kelly.

BTW, wouldn't Carlos Boozer be a good thing about the Lakers?

theAlaskanBear
11-17-2014, 09:34 PM
The only good thing about the Lakers (Ryan Kelly) tore his hammie last night. Sounds like he'll be out 6 weeks or so.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/los-angeles-lakers-ryan-kelly-out-for-6-weeks-with-hamstring-tear-111714

so he was out of the lineup early in the season for hamstring issues...then he came back and tore his hamstring? sounds like he rushed back or they cleared him before he was fully healed...

Furniture
11-17-2014, 09:47 PM
Andre Dawkins just scored the first points of his NBA career. Fittingly, it was a 3-pointer.

He's also playing some good minutes in a close game... Very cool!

tbyers11
11-17-2014, 09:53 PM
Andre Dawkins just scored the first points of his NBA career. Fittingly, it was a 3-pointer.

Yay! No Moonlight Graham for Andre.

First rebound too, but I doubt he's as excited about that. Played 9 minutes in the 2nd quarter.

phaedrus
11-17-2014, 09:55 PM
Parker's going to have a rough rookie season, with some stretches of success here and there. He's way too much of a jump shooter at this stage of his career, he can't defend, and he exhibits poor-decision making handling the ball. He'll eventually be a great player, but it will take a couple of seasons.



It's not quite that bad. Although we're a mere 10 games in, Parker's still a frontrunner for rookie of the year, and he's playing the second-most amount of minutes on a team that's a surprising 5-5 with a couple of high-quality wins (at Miami, vs. Memphis, vs. Philadelphia... kidding). In fact, while Parker's no DPOY candidate, Milwaukee's actually the second-best defensive team in the league (by defensive efficiency) so far. So he can't be hurting them that much. Milwaukee's also playing a really slow offense and spreading the minutes around pretty evenly, so Jabari's stats (10.6/5.6) are inherently deflated.

For the record, Jabari's averaging twice about 50% more minutes per game than teammates John Henson and Kendall Marshall combined.

Des Esseintes
11-17-2014, 10:13 PM
so he was out of the lineup early in the season for hamstring issues...then he came back and tore his hamstring? sounds like he rushed back or they cleared him before he was fully healed...

That Lakers training staff has had a terrible run over the past several seasons. Bad luck happens, but it seems to happen an awful lot in L.A., where the questionable decisions just keep piling up.

tommy
11-17-2014, 11:29 PM
so he was out of the lineup early in the season for hamstring issues...then he came back and tore his hamstring? sounds like he rushed back or they cleared him before he was fully healed...

With the Lakers being this pathetic and this hopeless, they'd have no reason to rush a reserve forward back into the lineup. Truth is, Ryan wouldn't make much difference for this sad sack team. Maybe he wasn't fully healed, but I seriously doubt there was any intentional rushing him back in, or that the team did so with any realization that there was a significant risk to him. Sometimes, stuff happens.

_Gary
11-18-2014, 03:43 PM
Losing respect for the Cavs new coach, Blatt, very quickly. Whenever the Cavs lose, he seems to always subtly point the finger at Kyrie. I get it that in the 2nd half Lawson was getting into the lane at will, but he was doing this with the other guards as well. Heck, he got by James a couple of times too (but because Lebron has such a height advantage he could make up for it with a block). The key thing I picked up on in the coach's presser that would have me livid if I were Kyrie is him blaming a 5 on 4 fastbreak after a made shot on the fact that Kyrie got knocked to the floor on his made layup. The coach actually talked about keeping your feet after a made shot. But it's pretty darned hard to do that when you are bumped after lifting for a layup in traffic. What a joke. I've yet to hear Blatt talk about how Lebron (for all his offensive prowess) has been a walking turnover machine all by himself this year. I've been shocked at the needless and terrible decisions he's made on the offensive end with his passing. It's just inexcusable and has led to a lot of fast-break points for the opposition this year. I hope Blatt chills out a bit on laying all the blame for these losses on one player, because if he doesn't I can all but guarantee he'll be cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Des Esseintes
11-18-2014, 06:43 PM
Losing respect for the Cavs new coach, Blatt, very quickly. Whenever the Cavs lose, he seems to always subtly point the finger at Kyrie. I get it that in the 2nd half Lawson was getting into the lane at will, but he was doing this with the other guards as well. Heck, he got by James a couple of times too (but because Lebron has such a height advantage he could make up for it with a block). The key thing I picked up on in the coach's presser that would have me livid if I were Kyrie is him blaming a 5 on 4 fastbreak after a made shot on the fact that Kyrie got knocked to the floor on his made layup. The coach actually talked about keeping your feet after a made shot. But it's pretty darned hard to do that when you are bumped after lifting for a layup in traffic. What a joke. I've yet to hear Blatt talk about how Lebron (for all his offensive prowess) has been a walking turnover machine all by himself this year. I've been shocked at the needless and terrible decisions he's made on the offensive end with his passing. It's just inexcusable and has led to a lot of fast-break points for the opposition this year. I hope Blatt chills out a bit on laying all the blame for these losses on one player, because if he doesn't I can all but guarantee he'll be cutting off his nose to spite his face.
LeBron has played poorly at times this year, but he has is also coming off four straight NBA Finals in which he was by far the best player on his team. He has proven he can succeed at the very highest and most demanding levels of the sport. Kyrie has no such resume on which to fall back. He qb'ed a team to the FIBA championship, a significant achievement--but nothing like an NBA title. (There was only one team in that tournament that could have beaten USA, and that team lost to France. USA won every game by 20+. Kyrie could have sat at home, and the team still would have likely won every game by at least double digits.) So Kyrie has to prove himself a lot more than LeBron. I'm surprised anyone considers that a controversial statement.

Moreover, Kyrie got a pass *last year* because his coach was bad. He got a pass on his failure to develop defensively *the coach before that* because Byron Scott is not held in great respect. I happened to agree that Mike Brown and Scott were probably not ideal for Irving's development. But at some point, three NBA coaches in, Kyrie's flaws belong to Kyrie. Maybe it's appropriate for Blatt to put his concerns in the public domain, and maybe it's not. But what he's saying is pretty much the consensus of the basketball-watching public: Irving sucks at D. His ceiling as a player will be limited--and his team's ceiling will be limited--until he can show growth on that end.

ice-9
11-18-2014, 06:57 PM
I'm glad the focus is finally on the Cav's defense -- a couple of weeks ago the conversation seemed to be about how that team will mesh on offense, whether Irving and LeBron are fundamentally bad for each other, etc. Since the last few games, with the Cavs beginning to mesh on offense, those questions have stopped.

The Cavs have two problems on defense: they can't prevent dribble penetration and they don't have rim protection.

I think it's fair for Blatt to focus on Kyrie -- as one of the big three -- on getting better at stopping dribble penetration. I'm not a fan of calling people out in public, so if that's what Blatt did I don't know if I'd endorse the move, but asking Kyrie to step up is a given.

Here's more on Cavs' defensive woes: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/18/7241939/cleveland-cavaliers-defense-problem-denver-nuggets

The problem isn't limited to Kyrie, but if Kyrie is to help lead this team he must show the way.

Otherwise, the Cavs are going to have problems with athletic, explosive, speedy point guards. Hmm, kinda sounds like the Duke stereotype huh?

CDu
11-18-2014, 08:45 PM
I'm glad the focus is finally on the Cav's defense -- a couple of weeks ago the conversation seemed to be about how that team will mesh on offense, whether Irving and LeBron are fundamentally bad for each other, etc. Since the last few games, with the Cavs beginning to mesh on offense, those questions have stopped.

The Cavs have two problems on defense: they can't prevent dribble penetration and they don't have rim protection.

I think it's fair for Blatt to focus on Kyrie -- as one of the big three -- on getting better at stopping dribble penetration. I'm not a fan of calling people out in public, so if that's what Blatt did I don't know if I'd endorse the move, but asking Kyrie to step up is a given.

Here's more on Cavs' defensive woes: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/18/7241939/cleveland-cavaliers-defense-problem-denver-nuggets

The problem isn't limited to Kyrie, but if Kyrie is to help lead this team he must show the way.

Otherwise, the Cavs are going to have problems with athletic, explosive, speedy point guards. Hmm, kinda sounds like the Duke stereotype huh?

The reason nobody has been talking about the defense is because we have known all along the Cavs would stink on that end. Love stinks at defense. Irving stinks at defense. Varejao and Waiters and Thompson aren't good defensively. LeBron is good at times but lazy too. It isn't news that their defense stinks. Folks have been talking about that from the getgo.

_Gary
11-18-2014, 11:02 PM
Everybody who's watched every Cav's game this year, along with watching Kyrie on each and every play both offensively and defensively, please raise their hand. [My hand is up]

Here's the deal. Kyrie is busting his butt on defense this year. He's been very disruptive and rotated fairly well. No, he can't stay in front of guys like Lawson when they are uber-hyped (as Ty clearly was last night), but neither were the other Cavs. Blatt just seems to me to have decided to call out Kyrie publicly, while giving passes to other guys that have played like crap (at least with parts of their game) so far this year. Mike Miller stinks. Thompson can dunk and that's about it. Marion has lost a step and does very little offensively, even when Kyrie hits him for wide open threes. Same for Love. He's lived up to his billing with rebounds, but he's missed so many open threes off Kyrie feeds it's silly. Waiters is Waiters - nuff said there. And Lebron has been horrendous with B-A-D turnovers this year (emphasis on BAD). Yet Blatt is going to call Kyrie out for getting hit and going down after making a driving layup because Denver is able to get back 5 on 4 and score. Of all the things that went wrong last night that was about the last thing he needed to emphasize. But whatever. All I know is that Kyrie is taking too much of the public blame right now from the coach - period. If Blatt wants to go with someone else, he can do so. I'd love to see how that works out for him. Sheesh.

ice-9
11-18-2014, 11:29 PM
The reason nobody has been talking about the defense is because we have known all along the Cavs would stink on that end. Love stinks at defense. Irving stinks at defense. Varejao and Waiters and Thompson aren't good defensively. LeBron is good at times but lazy too. It isn't news that their defense stinks. Folks have been talking about that from the getgo.

A lot of people are talking about Cavs' defense now though. I guess it is news now?

CDu
11-19-2014, 07:37 AM
A lot of people are talking about Cavs' defense now though. I guess it is news now?

Who are "a lot of people"? People have been talking about the defense being a problem all along. It is only news now because the coach made a comment. But poor defense has been discussed in every thread about the Cavs soince they added James and Love.

flyingdutchdevil
11-19-2014, 09:05 AM
The reason nobody has been talking about the defense is because we have known all along the Cavs would stink on that end. Love stinks at defense. Irving stinks at defense. Varejao and Waiters and Thompson aren't good defensively. LeBron is good at times but lazy too. It isn't news that their defense stinks. Folks have been talking about that from the getgo.

Correction: Varejao is okay defensively. Not a lock-down guy, not a liability, but probably neutral. But when he's one of your best DEFENSIVE players, there is a massive problem.

And another correction: Love is gawd awful at D ("stinks" is too kind). He may win the "Amazing at one end of the floor, awful at the other" award. Sadly, Kyrie isn't far behind in that award. Kyrie has never shown to be a good defender in the NBA. You know when he was a good defender? Against college competition and European competition. That's like me playing D against 6th graders. I'd be swatting shots, racking up steals, and playing lock-down D. And the audience would say, "Wow. That guy can play D." FIBA IS NOT THE NBA!

I understand that Kyrie is one of our own. I love watching the dude. But I've come to cold, hard conclusion that his defense is just terrible.

CDu
11-19-2014, 10:23 AM
Correction: Varejao is okay defensively. Not a lock-down guy, not a liability, but probably neutral. But when he's one of your best DEFENSIVE players, there is a massive problem.

And another correction: Love is gawd awful at D ("stinks" is too kind). He may win the "Amazing at one end of the floor, awful at the other" award. Sadly, Kyrie isn't far behind in that award. Kyrie has never shown to be a good defender in the NBA. You know when he was a good defender? Against college competition and European competition. That's like me playing D against 6th graders. I'd be swatting shots, racking up steals, and playing lock-down D. And the audience would say, "Wow. That guy can play D." FIBA IS NOT THE NBA!

I understand that Kyrie is one of our own. I love watching the dude. But I've come to cold, hard conclusion that his defense is just terrible.

Could not agree more with this post.

I'm getting the sense that Blatt and James are realizing the severity of the situation. There were a number of times in the Denver game where I saw a player (not always Irving, but multiple times it was Irving) miss an assignment on defense and James screamed/gestured at him in frustration. I'm guessing Blatt's comments after the last game were probably a case of "the straw that broke the camel's back" with Irving on defense.

This has always been a concern when you have over half your team's salary invested in two terrible defenders (and the rest of the team isn't elite defensively to compensate). So perhaps he's pushing Irving to try to earn his money on both ends of the floor rather than just on the offensive end?

_Gary
11-19-2014, 12:48 PM
Could not agree more with this post.

I'm getting the sense that Blatt and James are realizing the severity of the situation. There were a number of times in the Denver game where I saw a player (not always Irving, but multiple times it was Irving) miss an assignment on defense and James screamed/gestured at him in frustration. I'm guessing Blatt's comments after the last game were probably a case of "the straw that broke the camel's back" with Irving on defense.

This has always been a concern when you have over half your team's salary invested in two terrible defenders (and the rest of the team isn't elite defensively to compensate). So perhaps he's pushing Irving to try to earn his money on both ends of the floor rather than just on the offensive end?

But Blatt wasn't referring to Irving's defense in the comments I referenced (except in a backhanded way). He was talking about a guy that had just made a driving layup in which he was bumped while in the air and therefore had fallen down, which allowed for a 5 on 4 the other way. And my problem with that particular call out is that it also happened to Lebron at one point in the first half and happens to plenty of players. That, to me, was a stretch to call out a player in public on. If he had wanted to say none of our guards could stop Lawson tonight (which would include Kyrie and others), then fine. But to reach for that particular point just seems like piling on to one guy.

I've watched every game this year, and actually kept an eye on Kyrie in particular. Is he setting the world on fire defensively? Of course not. Is he weak on defense? Sure. BUT... and it's a big "but", he's better than he's ever been and he's clearly trying. For all his negative plays defensively, I've seen him disrupt on defense more this year than ever. He's getting steals or causing turnovers, and he's rotating better than he ever has. So I think Blatt (and perhaps James) calling him out has to be tempered with remembering how young the guy is; how much he is improving; how he's only played with scrubs up to this point in his career; and how talented he is. If you kill the guy's attitude/enthusiasm with constant criticism you only harm the entire team. Because like it or not, the Cavs are NOT a better team without Kyrie playing his best. That's a fact.

Oh, and no one wants to talk about how atrocious some of the other players (including Lebron when it comes to needless turnovers) have been this year. Kyrie's assists average would and should be at least 3 or 4 higher - but his teammates aren't hitting the open shots he's getting them with nearly enough frequency. Everything is intertwined on a basketball court. What one player does affects another. It's very rarely about just one player making bad plays or playing bad.

CDu
11-19-2014, 07:28 PM
So Chicago fans have had a bit of an up-and-down relationship with former Duke players. We loved Brand and Deng unconditionally. Boozer was welcomed with open arms (though some disappointment) but his defensive apathy and lack of willingness to post up wore on folks nerves. He did, however, generate some fantastic comedy with his antics and shoe polish hair, and he had this awesome moment when he stood up to LeBron James and said "not gonna work on me, Bron Bron":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFnmJgxft_s

It's nice to see that Dunleavy is very much appreciated in his stint with the Bulls:

http://www.blogabull.com/2014/11/19/7246255/in-praise-of-mike-dunleavy-jr

ice-9
11-19-2014, 07:32 PM
Who are "a lot of people"? People have been talking about the defense being a problem all along. It is only news now because the coach made a comment. But poor defense has been discussed in every thread about the Cavs soince they added James and Love.

- http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/18/7241939/cleveland-cavaliers-defense-problem-denver-nuggets
- http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20141118/jim-ingraham-cleveland-cavaliers-will-have-to-get-better-on-defense
- http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/11/19/fixing-defensive-downfalls-job-no-1-for-cavs/
- http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2014/11/19/lee-for-three-cleveland-cavaliers-have-to-fix-defense-if-they-want-a-title/
- http://www.givemesport.com/522489-cleveland-cavaliers-must-emulate-miami-heat-to-become-defensive-force
- http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_cavaliers_35.html
- http://www.si.com/nba/2014/11/15/cleveland-cavaliers-defense-lebron-james-david-blatt-kyrie-irving
- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2270005-cavaliers-title-hopes-depend-on-defensive-effort-that-has-been-clearly-lacking
- http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20141119/cleveland-cavaliers-notes-team-focusing-on-defense

There's more but decided it wasn't worth the effort.

I don't know what's up with your aggressive tone CDu but I don't think it's such a stretch to say the Cavs' defense is a hot topic this week.

Duvall
11-19-2014, 07:34 PM
So Chicago fans have had a bit of an up-and-down relationship with former Duke players. We loved Brand and Deng unconditionally.

Unconditionally (http://www.blogabull.com/2013/5/3/4297852/luol-deng-injury-twitter-spinal-tap-flu-game-7) is a bit strong. Still, anything's better than Cleveland fans.

CDu
11-19-2014, 09:15 PM
Unconditionally (http://www.blogabull.com/2013/5/3/4297852/luol-deng-injury-twitter-spinal-tap-flu-game-7) is a bit strong. Still, anything's better than Cleveland fans.

You have found the one instance where SOME subset of fans (who received incomplete information) questioned him. But I can assure you that most (if not all) Bulls fans loved Deng. And once the full details were clear, even those who doubted him jumped back on board.

phaedrus
11-19-2014, 10:27 PM
Jabari and the Bucks now in triple OT against the Nets. Jabari has 23 and 7.

_Gary
11-19-2014, 10:44 PM
V-I-N-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N!!! Thank you Jeff Van Gundy and Marc Jackson for backing me up with everything concerning Kyrie tonight. It's like they've been reading my posts here. If you didn't watch and listen to the broadcast tonight you really missed it. They honestly did say everything I've been saying all year. Thank God for those two smart guys. Bless you, gentlemen! :D

The Cavs lost, but it certainly wasn't on Mr Irving. Interestingly enough, the game ended on yet another point I've been making and no one here seems to want to acknowledge - a silly and uncontested Lebron James turnover. The guy had actually gotten through almost the entire game without one of his '14/'15 season trademark bad turnovers until late in the game when he tried to thread the needle to Andy with a pass that he had no business trying (which was bad enough in a close game where every possession counted), but then he also ends the game just losing the ball coming down court with a chance to tie or win. Amazing.

duke4ever19
11-19-2014, 10:51 PM
Jabari and the Bucks now in triple OT against the Nets. Jabari has 23 and 7.

It was a rather entertaining three overtimes. Howabout that missed layup at the end of regulation by Knight? He made up for it by sinking a key 3 and nailing some free throws. You could tell Kidd wanted that win bad.

FireOgilvie
11-20-2014, 04:24 AM
V-I-N-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N!!! Thank you Jeff Van Gundy and Marc Jackson for backing me up with everything concerning Kyrie tonight. It's like they've been reading my posts here. If you didn't watch and listen to the broadcast tonight you really missed it. They honestly did say everything I've been saying all year. Thank God for those two smart guys. Bless you, gentlemen! :D

The Cavs lost, but it certainly wasn't on Mr Irving. Interestingly enough, the game ended on yet another point I've been making and no one here seems to want to acknowledge - a silly and uncontested Lebron James turnover. The guy had actually gotten through almost the entire game without one of his '14/'15 season trademark bad turnovers until late in the game when he tried to thread the needle to Andy with a pass that he had no business trying (which was bad enough in a close game where every possession counted), but then he also ends the game just losing the ball coming down court with a chance to tie or win. Amazing.

Good points regarding Kyrie - I agree that he's definitely trying harder than before. He certainly has the quickness and physical abilities to play decent defense. I've also watched all the Cavs games this year (and just noticed the discussion on here - good stuff from everyone).

To add to what others were saying, here are some stats that emphasize how bad the Cavs are at protecting the rim (from the new tracking tools on NBA.com). When Kevin Love is defending within 6 feet of the basket, he gives up 68% FG (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201567/tracking/defense/). Opponents are +9.5% better than their normal average against him. That was the worst I could find from a big man. Tyler Hansbrough is +8%. Varejao is +0.3%, which is not good for a starting center. The best defensive centers are usually around -8% to -18% (Joakim Noah (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201149/tracking/defense/)).

I'm still hoping they can add someone and trade a couple guys, including Waiters, for some defensive help and rim protection. I saw some talk about Mozgov from Denver, who has played for Blatt before. Also saw something about Brewer from MN, but I don't think he fills as big of a need. The Cavs bench has been a disappointment outside of Harris - Mike Miller literally has a negative PER and the end of the bench group is the worst in the league.

I'm not sure about the possibility of trading for draft picks for the Cavs, but this draft is going to be incredibly loaded with big men: Okafor, the Kentucky guys, Myles Turner (he's been awesome - 12 pts, 4 blocks/game in 20 min), etc. Turner will make some NBA All-Star teams. Overall, it's going to take a few moves to get Cleveland where they want to be this year.

CDu
11-20-2014, 08:10 AM
- http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/11/18/7241939/cleveland-cavaliers-defense-problem-denver-nuggets
- http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20141118/jim-ingraham-cleveland-cavaliers-will-have-to-get-better-on-defense
- http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/11/19/fixing-defensive-downfalls-job-no-1-for-cavs/
- http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2014/11/19/lee-for-three-cleveland-cavaliers-have-to-fix-defense-if-they-want-a-title/
- http://www.givemesport.com/522489-cleveland-cavaliers-must-emulate-miami-heat-to-become-defensive-force
- http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_cavaliers_35.html
- http://www.si.com/nba/2014/11/15/cleveland-cavaliers-defense-lebron-james-david-blatt-kyrie-irving
- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2270005-cavaliers-title-hopes-depend-on-defensive-effort-that-has-been-clearly-lacking
- http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20141119/cleveland-cavaliers-notes-team-focusing-on-defense

There's more but decided it wasn't worth the effort.

I don't know what's up with your aggressive tone CDu but I don't think it's such a stretch to say the Cavs' defense is a hot topic this week.

That's my bad. I thought you were talking about DBR discussion. I didn't realize you were talking about national discussion.

CDu
11-20-2014, 08:18 AM
V-I-N-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N!!! Thank you Jeff Van Gundy and Marc Jackson for backing me up with everything concerning Kyrie tonight. It's like they've been reading my posts here. If you didn't watch and listen to the broadcast tonight you really missed it. They honestly did say everything I've been saying all year. Thank God for those two smart guys. Bless you, gentlemen! :D

The Cavs lost, but it certainly wasn't on Mr Irving. Interestingly enough, the game ended on yet another point I've been making and no one here seems to want to acknowledge - a silly and uncontested Lebron James turnover. The guy had actually gotten through almost the entire game without one of his '14/'15 season trademark bad turnovers until late in the game when he tried to thread the needle to Andy with a pass that he had no business trying (which was bad enough in a close game where every possession counted), but then he also ends the game just losing the ball coming down court with a chance to tie or win. Amazing.

I think it is fair to say that the Cavs have lots of flaws right now. Irving, Love, and others stink defensively. The bench stinks all around. LeBron appears to be trying to do too much and as a result is making many dumb mistakes. I don't think any reasonable person is putting all of the blame on Irving. It is clearly a team effort. Irving and Love have each had their share of responsibility for the loss, and as you note so has James.

As a team, things aren't clicking. The Cavs are a bad defensive group, and they aren't deep offensively. That puts that much more pressure on their big three to be great offensively, and so far they haven't been great yet.

It is clearly a work in progress, but they are not near a championship level right now. And it is on all of their big three and Blatt to get better if they want to get there.

moonpie23
11-20-2014, 08:34 AM
kyrie shoulda been bringing the ball up last night......

flyingdutchdevil
11-20-2014, 08:53 AM
I think it is fair to say that the Cavs have lots of flaws right now. Irving, Love, and others stink defensively. The bench stinks all around. LeBron appears to be trying to do too much and as a result is making many dumb mistakes. I don't think any reasonable person is putting all of the blame on Irving. It is clearly a team effort. Irving and Love have each had their share of responsibility for the loss, and as you note so has James.

As a team, things aren't clicking. The Cavs are a bad defensive group, and they aren't deep offensively. That puts that much more pressure on their big three to be great offensively, and so far they haven't been great yet.

It is clearly a work in progress, but they are not near a championship level right now. And it is on all of their big three and Blatt to get better if they want to get there.

I watched the whole game yesterday. And you know what? Kyrie looked okay defensively. He's no Tony Allen, but he did everything correct and really worked hard on defense. That's all you can really ask out of Kyrie.

Love? Wow. Diaw had his way with Love.

Varejao is a great asset to have. Smart player and opportunistic scorer. Thompson has the tools to play amazing D and it showed. But he still has a lot to learn. Waiters is soooooooooooooo awful. Trading him would be a mistake because, right now, he is worth cents on the dollar. Marion tried really hard, but he's just not good anymore on either end.

Flawed, flawed team. Kyrie has looked like the best Cavs thus far, and he's only contributing on the offensive end.

tux
11-20-2014, 08:55 AM
kyrie shoulda been bringing the ball up last night......

Totally agree. Lebron is the team's best creator/distributor. But no one can get the ball more safely up the court and quicker than Kyrie. Cleveland, with no timeouts, needed to have something better planned than that...

I also enjoyed Van Gundy saying that Kyrie didn't need to change his game for anyone, including Lebron. The biggest story so far, to me, has been the play of Lebron, who seems to be taking a while to play like the best player in the world again. But Kyrie seems to be the whipping boy for most of the media...

_Gary
11-20-2014, 09:41 AM
Totally agree. Lebron is the team's best creator/distributor. But no one can get the ball more safely up the court and quicker than Kyrie. Cleveland, with no timeouts, needed to have something better planned than that...

I also enjoyed Van Gundy saying that Kyrie didn't need to change his game for anyone, including Lebron. The biggest story so far, to me, has been the play of Lebron, who seems to be taking a while to play like the best player in the world again. But Kyrie seems to be the whipping boy for most of the media...

Agreed on everything you (and others) have said. This has been my point from the beginning of the year. I had a gut feeling that Kyrie would really come out this year and push harder than he ever has on the defensive end, and he is. But it seems like some folks (both here and in the media) simply kept touting the same old line about how bad he is on that end without bothering to actually watch him this year and at least acknowledge that 1) he is busting his butt on that end of the court, and 2) he's getting better and better as he plays with his new teammates.

Van Gundy was a God-send last night. He reiterated every point I've made this year. Kyrie getting blamed early on for not passing was bogus because he was looking for teammates but those guys have to hit the shots. Kyrie is trying harder on defense and is actually quite disruptive on that end. And as you mentioned, Van Gundy also pointed out that Kyrie shouldn't be changing his game for anyone. He'll work with Lebron, but he shouldn't try to become Jason Kidd or some other PG that only looks to pass. He's too skilled offensively to just take that away from him. It would be foolish for the Cavs to ask him to surrender that part of his game. If he continues to play like he did last night he's doing his part and then some for this team to win. That's about as much as anyone can ask.

CDu
11-20-2014, 10:01 AM
Agreed on everything you (and others) have said. This has been my point from the beginning of the year. I had a gut feeling that Kyrie would really come out this year and push harder than he ever has on the defensive end, and he is. But it seems like some folks (both here and in the media) simply kept touting the same old line about how bad he is on that end without bothering to actually watch him this year and at least acknowledge that 1) he is busting his butt on that end of the court, and 2) he's getting better and better as he plays with his new teammates.

Van Gundy was a God-send last night. He reiterated every point I've made this year. Kyrie getting blamed early on for not passing was bogus because he was looking for teammates but those guys have to hit the shots. Kyrie is trying harder on defense and is actually quite disruptive on that end. And as you mentioned, Van Gundy also pointed out that Kyrie shouldn't be changing his game for anyone. He'll work with Lebron, but he shouldn't try to become Jason Kidd or some other PG that only looks to pass. He's too skilled offensively to just take that away from him. It would be foolish for the Cavs to ask him to surrender that part of his game. If he continues to play like he did last night he's doing his part and then some for this team to win. That's about as much as anyone can ask.

Here's the deal. No one is saying that Irving isn't trying. He's just not good at defense right now. Maybe he'll get better. He has the physical and mental tools to be a good defender. He just hasn't become one yet. Trying hard is great, but the proof is in the pudding with defense, and Irving isn't good at it. That's not to say it's a permanent situation. It's just the current situation.

And nobody is asking Irving to be Jason Kidd and only pass. But zero assists over 6 quarters is unacceptably bad for a PG. You keep mentioning that it's other guys' fault for missing shots when Irving passes, but I think that's a bit bogus. EVERY PG loses assists when their teammates miss shots. The only way that doesn't happen is if every possible assist is on a pass to a wide open player under the rim. Missed shots are just part of the game. Irving is not some remarkably unlucky passer whose teammates just always let him down. Sure, that 6-quarter stretch probably had 3-4 assists lost for Irving. But you know what? 3-4 assists over 6 quarters is still not very good for an upper-tier PG.

And I'll give Irving credit here. Since he got called out by LeBron, he's been a terrific offensive player for the Cavs. He's averaged 21.8 ppg, 5.8 apg, and just 1.3 TOpg (over 4:1 a:to ratio) in the 6 games since. That's about as good as it's going to get for Irving in this offense next to LeBron. His defense has still been bad (though not as bad last night), but there has been a tangible change in his quality on offense. In that same stretch, LeBron has averaged 27.3 ppg, 8 apg, and 3.7 TOpg. Those are pretty good numbers, though the turnovers are a bit too high (would prefer a 3:1 a:to ratio). He needs to play better on that front for sure.

If Irving keeps playing offense like he has been and James keeps up the turnovers, I'm sure the narrative will start to shift. But you have to understand the situation: James is a multiple-time MVP, two-time champ, and multiple-time finalist. He's proven he knows how to win. Irving has had no team success to this point in the NBA. So less than a month into the season, it only makes sense that the national media (who are generally idiots and don't pay attention) are going to put the focus on Irving.

_Gary
11-20-2014, 11:53 AM
CDu, did you hear what Jeff Van Gundy said last night about the "no assists in 6 quarters" deal? He simply said it wasn't so easy to just pin that on Kyrie and make a big deal out of it. At that time (haven't checked recently) the Cavs were near the bottom of the league in shooting percentage. But regardless, while you say it's bogus to talk about others missing shots, I say its bogus to call a guy out based on one and a half games of no assists. That's an awfully small sample size.

And the last thing I'll say right now about the defense is that I believe a lot of guys saying Kyrie is horrible at defense haven't watched him much, if at all, this year. But I have. And he's far better than a lot of people are giving him credit for. Doesn't mean he's where he needs to be, but he's not where he was either. That's all I'm pointing out.

phaedrus
11-20-2014, 12:29 PM
Nice article on Austin Rivers' improvement so far this year.

http://hoopshabit.com/2014/11/20/new-orleans-pelicans-austin-rivers-playing-well/

flyingdutchdevil
11-20-2014, 12:34 PM
Nice article on Austin Rivers' improvement so far this year.

http://hoopshabit.com/2014/11/20/new-orleans-pelicans-austin-rivers-playing-well/

Really nice read. Rivers is becoming the player we all thought he could be.

He may have needed on more year at Duke, but I believe that the NBA is a better training ground. Glad to see him playing significantly better.

ChillinDuke
11-20-2014, 12:52 PM
... at least acknowledge that 1) he is busting his butt on that end of the court, and 2) he's getting better and better as he plays with his new teammates.


...He's just not good at defense right now. ...

As is the case frequently around here, these two things are not mutually exclusive. Irving is both busting his butt and (presumably) getting better, while concurrently being bad at defense.

- Chillin

Henderson
11-20-2014, 01:27 PM
Really nice read. Rivers is becoming the player we all thought he could be.

He may have needed on more year at Duke, but I believe that the NBA is a better training ground. Glad to see him playing significantly better.

If a young player isn't going to get PT in the NBA, he's better off staying in college if game development (as opposed to $$) is the metric. But in Rivers' case, he played over 1400 minutes as a rookie, which he couldn't have done playing 40 minutes per game as a college player over a 35 game season. I don't know whether that's the reason he's developed, but his shooting percentage has increased every year, both overall and on threes. He's shooting over 50% from the floor this year. And he's still only 22 years old.

He could have a long NBA career as a solid player if he gets his mind around the fact that he's not going to be a superstar. I suspect that was a disappointment to him in his first year, limiting his effectiveness.

flyingdutchdevil
11-20-2014, 03:29 PM
If a young player isn't going to get PT in the NBA, he's better off staying in college if game development (as opposed to $$) is the metric. But in Rivers' case, he played over 1400 minutes as a rookie, which he couldn't have done playing 40 minutes per game as a college player over a 35 game season. I don't know whether that's the reason he's developed, but his shooting percentage has increased every year, both overall and on threes. He's shooting over 50% from the floor this year. And he's still only 22 years old.

He could have a long NBA career as a solid player if he gets his mind around the fact that he's not going to be a superstar. I suspect that was a disappointment to him in his first year, limiting his effectiveness.

I always put practice above PT, and practice against better competition is much better than worse competition. That can only make you better. Plus, the $$$ ain't bad (and I don't buy that because Rivers came from a wealthy family he shouldn't be concerned about money. I have plenty of Duke buddies who came from wealthy families and don't see a dime of that money. They became bankers and consultants to gain skills and get well paid for it).

Rivers will never be a superstar, but I think his ceiling would be a Jamal Crawford-type player. That's a great NBA career.

theAlaskanBear
11-20-2014, 03:42 PM
I'm a bit surprised that no one is talking about Jabari Parker's career high 23 points in a triple OT game that the Bucks won against the Nets. He played well despite being defend by KG most of the game.

_Gary
11-20-2014, 04:22 PM
As is the case frequently around here, these two things are not mutually exclusive. Irving is both busting his butt and (presumably) getting better, while concurrently being bad at defense.

- Chillin

Completely agree and that point has not been lost on me in these discussions. But since this is a Duke board, and Kyrie is a Duke guy, I've chosen to argue from the "glass half full" side of things. Is that so strange?

_Gary
11-20-2014, 04:42 PM
Did anyone check out the box score, and Kyrie's line in particular, from last night's game/ He was only credited with making 2 assists!! They have got to be kidding. I know a week or so ago the stat person in Cleveland credited Lebron with 10 assists (so he'd have another triple-double) when ESPN demonstrated beyond any doubt he only had 9. Not sure how or why, but watching that game last night (which I deleted this morning as I do with almost all their games after viewing it) I'm positive he had more than 2 assists. He may not have had 6, or even 5. But darned if I know he had more than 2. Something very weird going on with that stats guy in Cleveland.

Des Esseintes
11-20-2014, 04:45 PM
Did anyone check out the box score, and Kyrie's line in particular, from last night's game/ He was only credited with making 2 assists!! They have got to be kidding. I know a week or so ago the stat person in Cleveland credited Lebron with 10 assists (so he'd have another triple-double) when ESPN demonstrated beyond any doubt he only had 9. Not sure how or why, but watching that game last night (which I deleted this morning as I do with almost all their games after viewing it) I'm positive he had more than 2 assists. He may not have had 6, or even 5. But darned if I know he had more than 2. Something very weird going on with that stats guy in Cleveland.

It's amazing any Duke guys survive to their second contract, what with all the conspiracies against them.

_Gary
11-20-2014, 06:30 PM
It's amazing any Duke guys survive to their second contract, what with all the conspiracies against them.

Oy vey. I did not mean to infer that at all. Only that the stat guy isn't paying attention. No conspiracies from me here. But I am glad to see that Carnac is alive and well. :rolleyes:

superdave
11-21-2014, 10:51 AM
4509

Super "Big Time" Dave

kAzE
11-21-2014, 11:42 AM
4509

Super "Big Time" Dave

One of these things is not like the others . . .

flyingdutchdevil
11-21-2014, 11:45 AM
One of these things is not like the others . . .

Yeah, one of them is French.

mkirsh
11-21-2014, 11:51 AM
One of these things is not like the others . . .

One is not an active player...

One is not an NY team...

One does not have an NCAA ring...

CDu
11-21-2014, 11:58 AM
So many applicable "one is not". Including "one has never averaged 20 mpg in the NBA."

Edouble
11-22-2014, 02:55 AM
Yeah, one of them is French.

One of them is Biblical.

jimrowe0
12-02-2014, 10:17 PM
Jabari with a nice game tonight, 22 points, (73% from the field), 8 rebounds, 3 assists. Kyrie with 28 points (66% from floor),6 assists in the Cavs win.

DukieInBrasil
12-02-2014, 10:38 PM
Austin Rivers got a couple of starts in NOLA, and absolutely stunk it up. He really had a chance to get a solid grip on more PT and maybe even an outside shot (bu-dunh, tching!) at a part time starting gig. I don't see him getting that chance again, unless another injury strikes. Plus he continues to be a mysteriously terrible FT shooter. Seriously, if he ever wants to be taken seriously as a guard in the NBA he needs to shoot better than mid 60%. He had improved across the board statistically this year, but has seriously regressed in the last week, he's now shooting <40% FG, ~30% 3FG and <70% FT. The only area he is solid at for a guard is his a/to, which is above 3/1.

COYS
12-03-2014, 10:28 AM
Jabari with a nice game tonight, 22 points, (73% from the field), 8 rebounds, 3 assists. Kyrie with 28 points (66% from floor),6 assists in the Cavs win.

Jabari has made a noticeable improvement, of late. He's basically cut the three point shot out of his game, entirely (he has zero attempts from range in the past five games) and instead has done a good job scoring from inside the arc. His shot selection has improved a bit over this time period, too. He's still pretty bad on the defensive end, but that's just something he'll have to learn (when Durant entered the league, he was arguably the worst defender in the NBA over his first few seasons before becoming a decent defender). His PER has climbed over the 15 mark (which is average for the NBA) and is trending upward. As he gets comfortable with the NBA game, I think these 20+ point scoring outbursts will become common place.