ESPN Top 500

[JNort]

The yearly top 500 NBA players is up and several Dukies have moved up big (McRoberts especially). On my mobile so I will just post the link and let others fill in all the Duke guys: http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11530291

[subzero02]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11629703/2014-nba-player-rankings-101-120

[Duvall]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11629703/2014-nba-player-rankings-101-120

Mason at 112, Kevin Garnett at 113. Aging is cruel.

[Duke3517]

I don't mean any disrespect but McRoberts was the biggest disappointment of all the big time recruits. He probably had the worst attitude of all Duke players I watched. I could be wrong but I didn't see a willing to improve at all or to fit in with Coach K's system. I saw someone who just focused on going pro.

[Duvall]

I don't mean any disrespect but McRoberts was the biggest disappointment of all the big time recruits. He probably had the worst attitude of all Duke players I watched. I could be wrong but I didn't see a willing to improve at all or to fit in with Coach K's system. I saw someone who just focused on going pro.

I'd hate to see what you would have said if you meant disrespect.

Without Josh McRoberts Duke probably doesn't make the NIT in 2007, for what it's worth.

[Duke3517]

I'd hate to see what you would have said if you meant disrespect.

Without Josh McRoberts Duke probably doesn't make the NIT in 2007, for what it's worth.

Though Singler came in as a freshman the next year and I'm sure this was the biggest reason but Duke was much more conventional the following season.

[-jk]

I'm confused. There are, what, 30 NBA teams? With 12 players each? Where do the other, I guess, 140ish players come from? What's this list for? (Yeah, each and every player on my kid's baseball team got a trophy. And they understood how meaningless it was!)

-jk

[duketaylor]

Saying goes "Josh never unpacked his bags," which would've been similar if Kris Humphries ever matriculated. One and done and wanted everything to showcase them. Sorry, Duke plays team basketball.

[JNort]

I'm confused. There are, what, 30 NBA teams? With 12 players each? Where do the other, I guess, 140ish players come from? What's this list for? (Yeah, each and every player on my kid's baseball team got a trophy. And they understood how meaningless it was!)

-jk

Also counts free agents and guys who played even a little bit last year

[tbyers11]

I'm confused. There are, what, 30 NBA teams? With 12 players each? Where do the other, I guess, 140ish players come from? What's this list for? (Yeah, each and every player on my kid's baseball team got a trophy. And they understood how meaningless it was!)

-jk

15 players each actually. Only 12 are active for a given game. So there's only about 50 extra. I figure it's about the correct number of players that could actually make a roster if you figure there are about 100 players trying to make the 50 spots.

Edit: as JNort said I think it ranks anyone who played in an NBA game last year plus all draft picks.

[subzero02]

Any guesses as to where Kyrie will be ranked? His play this summer almost certainly gave him a little boost...

[subzero02]

Shavlik Randolph is the lowest ranking Blue Devil... He checks in at #412... 10 spots behind Antawn Jamison

[tbyers11]

Shavlik Randolph is the lowest ranking Blue Devil... He checks in at #412... 10 spots behind Antawn Jamison

Lance Thomas is at #456

[tbyers11]

The list isn't fully revealed yet and I haven't checked every player but I think that Miles Plumlee will win the Most Improved Player award. He moved up 270 spots from #414 to #144. Congrats Miles.

[subzero02]

Lance Thomas is at #456

Thanks, I don't know how I missed him.

[sagegrouse]

Lance Thomas is at #456


Thanks, I don't know how I missed him.

Well, he wasn't wearing his jewelry. Ba-da-BOOM!

[jimsumner]

I don't mean any disrespect but McRoberts was the biggest disappointment of all the big time recruits. He probably had the worst attitude of all Duke players I watched. I could be wrong but I didn't see a willing to improve at all or to fit in with Coach K's system. I saw someone who just focused on going pro.

McRoberts didn't even have the worst attitude of left-handed forwards who played at Duke between 2006 and 2008.

I realize McRoberts is an issue for some Duke fans. And yes, he gets a C minus for body language. But he's not even in the Humphries universe for me-first basketball.

McRoberts came in as a freshman and subsumed his ego to blend in with a senior-dominated team and was third-leading scorer and second-leading rebounder for a
32-4 team.

As a sophomore, he averaged 13 points, 8 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.5 blocks and just over a steal per game, while shooting 50.2 percent from the field. He was named to the first-team All-ACC Defensive team. That doesn't exactly scream someone focused on just going pro.

Compare McRoberts to the Duke career of top-10 recruit Joey Beard and I think we have our biggest disappointment in the big-time recruit category.

[Duke3517]

McRoberts didn't even have the worst attitude of left-handed forwards who played at Duke between 2006 and 2008.

I realize McRoberts is an issue for some Duke fans. And yes, he gets a C minus for body language. But he's not even in the Humphries universe for me-first basketball.

McRoberts came in as a freshman and subsumed his ego to blend in with a senior-dominated team and was third-leading scorer and second-leading rebounder for a
32-4 team.

As a sophomore, he averaged 13 points, 8 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.5 blocks and just over a steal per game, while shooting 50.2 percent from the field. He was named to the first-team All-ACC Defensive team. That doesn't exactly scream someone focused on just going pro.

Compare McRoberts to the Duke career of top-10 recruit Joey Beard and I think we have our biggest disappointment in the big-time recruit category.

I love the facts to support your opinion. I just felt like watching him he had so much more than what he gave. To me Paulus was never the most talented but he gave it 100 percent every game. I just didn't see that from Josh.

[dukelifer]

I don't mean any disrespect but McRoberts was the biggest disappointment of all the big time recruits. He probably had the worst attitude of all Duke players I watched. I could be wrong but I didn't see a willing to improve at all or to fit in with Coach K's system. I saw someone who just focused on going pro.

Not sure what you saw. McRoberts played very hard and was extremely talented. He could do everything but shoot under pressure. Taylor King was a disappointment.

[Atldukie79]

While I recall being disappointed that McRoberts wasn't a dominating player, he absolutely was a team player. If anything, he overpassed and deferred. I can't speak to attitude or team chemistry. I do think he suffered in comparison to "Hansbo" who came in a the same time and proved to be more effective over time. in hindsight, I suggest he wasn't what we wanted him to be, but as Jim points out, his stats and team achievements were not bad.

[sagegrouse]

I don't mean any disrespect but McRoberts was the biggest disappointment of all the big time recruits. He probably had the worst attitude of all Duke players I watched. I could be wrong but I didn't see a willing to improve at all or to fit in with Coach K's system. I saw someone who just focused on going pro.

This is really nonsensical, Duke3517. How about Burgess or Shavlik Randolph, who were phenoms in HS and huge gets for Coach K? McBob was a productive player in his two years, including his freshman season, and would have been a star had he stayed four years. And how other many freshman big men, I ask the ether, made an immediate impact at Duke, and how many were ver-r-r-ry slow to develop, if at all? Going backwards, that list includes Marshall, Miles, Michael Thompson, Casey Sanders, Nick Horvath, Matt Christensen, Erik Meek, Crawford Palmer, Clay Buckley, George Burgin and Martin Nessley.

The "biggest disappointment" about McBob was his leaving the program after two years, and then hanging on by a thread in the NBA and NBDL until he finally got a foothold with the Pacers.

[Highlander]

My take on Josh is that he is a very good complimentary player who is not equipped to be the primary option on offense. He is at his best when he is the second or third option on a team. As a Freshman he was very promising playing off of JJ and Shelden, and everyone expected Duke to pick up where they left off after a disappointing NCAA exit. McRoberts was to be the leader on offense. I remember people believing at the time that McRoberts was a much better player than his classmate over at UNC, one Tyler Hansbrough. Tyler was the focal point as a Freshman of a UNC team that wasn't great. Josh was a complimentary player on a senior laden Duke team that was. I have heard quotes attributed to McRoberts that he made a mistake not declaring after his Freshman year, and would have been picked higher had he done so. Can't say I disagree with that, based on his draft projections. However, I think he got better as a basketball player and has lasted longer in the NBA because of his experience as a Sophomore.

Basically Josh wasn't JJ or Shelden, Duke took a step back, and he was blamed (rightly or wrongly) for all that ailed Duke. It didn't help that Tyler improved dramatically and began leading UNC the way Duke fans assumed Josh would lead Duke. People needed a scapegoat and Josh, as the best player on the team, fit the bill.

[jimsumner]

My take on Josh is that he is a very good complimentary player who is not equipped to be the primary option on offense. He is at his best when he is the second or third option on a team. As a Freshman he was very promising playing off of JJ and Shelden, and everyone expected Duke to pick up where they left off after a disappointing NCAA exit. McRoberts was to be the leader on offense. I remember people believing at the time that McRoberts was a much better player than his classmate over at UNC, one Tyler Hansbrough. Tyler was the focal point as a Freshman of a UNC team that wasn't great. Josh was a complimentary player on a senior laden Duke team that was. I have heard quotes attributed to McRoberts that he made a mistake not declaring after his Freshman year, and would have been picked higher had he done so. Can't say I disagree with that, based on his draft projections. However, I think he got better as a basketball player and has lasted longer in the NBA because of his experience as a Sophomore.

Basically Josh wasn't JJ or Shelden, Duke took a step back, and he was blamed (rightly or wrongly) for all that ailed Duke. It didn't help that Tyler improved dramatically and began leading UNC the way Duke fans assumed Josh would lead Duke. People needed a scapegoat and Josh, as the best player on the team, fit the bill.

Note that McRoberts was about as good as a sophomore as Redick and Williams were as sophomores. All three were second-team All-ACC as sophs and McRoberts and Shel had very similar stat lines with the exception of Josh's superior passing.

Had he stuck around for four years, he might well have been an all-time Duke great.

Note also that that young 2007 Duke team could--note the qualifier-have included a senior Luol Deng and a junior Shaun Livingston, which would have positioned McRoberts for the complementary-note the spelling--role he so excelled at. Or maybe Demarcus Nelson could have become the next Jason Williams by then.

Final note. I've always wanted to use the word "note" six times in a single post. I can now cross that off the list. )

[devildeac]

Note that McRoberts was about as good as a sophomore as Redick and Williams were as sophomores. All three were second-team All-ACC as sophs and McRoberts and Shel had very similar stat lines with the exception of Josh's superior passing.

Had he stuck around for four years, he might well have been an all-time Duke great.

Note also that that young 2007 Duke team could--note the qualifier-have included a senior Luol Deng and a junior Shaun Livingston, which would have positioned McRoberts for the complementary-note the spelling--role he so excelled at. Or maybe Demarcus Nelson could have become the next Jason Williams by then.

Final note. I've always wanted to use the word "note" six times in a single post. I can now cross that off the list. )

Noted.:p

[flyingdutchdevil]

Note that McRoberts was about as good as a sophomore as Redick and Williams were as sophomores. All three were second-team All-ACC as sophs and McRoberts and Shel had very similar stat lines with the exception of Josh's superior passing.

Had he stuck around for four years, he might well have been an all-time Duke great.

Note also that that young 2007 Duke team could--note the qualifier-have included a senior Luol Deng and a junior Shaun Livingston, which would have positioned McRoberts for the complementary-note the spelling--role he so excelled at. Or maybe Demarcus Nelson could have become the next Jason Williams by then.

Final note. I've always wanted to use the word "note" six times in a single post. I can now cross that off the list. )

I was a junior and senior at Duke when McBob has there. After a solid 10 years of incredibly talented Duke players who maximized their potential, everyone expected McBob to do the same. As a sophomore who played third banana on a team featuring two All-American seniors, that's a lot to ask. I really enjoyed watching McBob; he was a unique big man, a goofy dude off the court, quiet, and always played hard.

It's true that his body language sucked, but a) he was a winner his whole life and got stuck on a Duke team that didn't have much talent and b) his body language was a way to saying that he had tried his hardest to put this team on his shoulders but couldn't fully succeed. I appreciated the effort.

It's also true that amongst Duke students during the mid-2000s and diehard fans, McBob wasn't seen as a popular player. They couldn't emotional connect to a player who we didn't know much about. I call it the Redick/Shelden Hangover. McBob was, to a certain extent, a college star in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Highlander]

Note that McRoberts was about as good as a sophomore as Redick and Williams were as sophomores. All three were second-team All-ACC as sophs and McRoberts and Shel had very similar stat lines with the exception of Josh's superior passing.

Had he stuck around for four years, he might well have been an all-time Duke great.

Note also that that young 2007 Duke team could--note the qualifier-have included a senior Luol Deng and a junior Shaun Livingston, which would have positioned McRoberts for the complementary-note the spelling--role he so excelled at. Or maybe Demarcus Nelson could have become the next Jason Williams by then.

Final note. I've always wanted to use the word "note" six times in a single post. I can now cross that off the list. )

Sophomore Josh to Sophomore Sheden I will give you, but Sophomore Josh to Sophomore JJ is a bit of a stretch. Compare:


YearRkPlayerGMPFGFGAFG%2P2PA2P%3P3PA3P% FTFTAFT%TRBASTSTLBLKPTS
2006-072Josh McRoberts331164164327.502159304.523523.21797146.66 42601143982430
2003-041J.J. Redick371152172407.42370149.470102258.395143150.95 311558273589
2003-04]4Shelden Williams37963164280.586162275.58925.400138200.6903 143436111468

Shelden scored 38 more points than Josh did in 200 less minutes, but in 4 more games. To your point, the rest of their stats pretty much wash out - Josh being higher in Assists and Shelden having more blocks (although Josh was respectable there).

JJ, on the other hand, scored over 150 more points than Josh and was the #1 scoring option on the team as a Sophomore, barely edging out Deng for that honor. That holds up even if you remove ~60 points from JJ's total to account for the 4 additional games he played compared to Josh. Comparatively, a sophomore McRoberts was edged out by DeMarcus Nelson for the top scoring spot. Nelson vs. Deng isn't a fair comparison, but it's worth noting that JJ outscored Deng, while McRoberts failed to outscore Nelson. One other interesting comparison - McRoberts played more minutes than JJ despite the fact that JJ played 4 more games (35mpg to 31mpg).

Had Josh stayed 4 years, he might have equaled Shelden's contributions, and Shelden did end up with his jersey in the rafters (FWIW, I consider Shelden's honor due primarily to his defense and for his block title). That being said, I think it is highly unlikely Josh would have ended up as an all time great had he stayed 4 years without some help, which is kind of my point. If he played with JJ for 4 years the way Shelden did potentially, but that's too much of a hypothetical.

One thing is for certain. Had Josh stayed, he would have continuously been compared to Tyler, and I doubt there is much question that he would never have eclipsed that career.

[sagegrouse]

Sophomore Josh to Sophomore Sheden I will give you, but Sophomore Josh to Sophomore JJ is a bit of a stretch. Compare:

Shelden scored 38 more points than Josh did in 200 less minutes, but in 4 more games. To your point, the rest of their stats pretty much wash out - Josh being higher in Assists and Shelden having more blocks (although Josh was respectable there).

JJ, on the other hand, scored over 150 more points than Josh and was the #1 scoring option on the team as a Sophomore, barely edging out Deng for that honor. That holds up even if you remove ~60 points from JJ's total to account for the 4 additional games he played compared to Josh. Comparatively, a sophomore McRoberts was edged out by DeMarcus Nelson for the top scoring spot. Nelson vs. Deng isn't a fair comparison, but it's worth noting that JJ outscored Deng, while McRoberts failed to outscore Nelson. One other interesting comparison - McRoberts played more minutes than JJ despite the fact that JJ played 4 more games (35mpg to 31mpg).

Had Josh stayed 4 years, he might have equaled Shelden's contributions, and Shelden did end up with his jersey in the rafters (FWIW, I consider Shelden's honor due primarily to his defense and for his block title). That being said, I think it is highly unlikely Josh would have ended up as an all time great had he stayed 4 years without some help, which is kind of my point. If he played with JJ for 4 years the way Shelden did potentially, but that's too much of a hypothetical.

One thing is for certain. Had Josh stayed, he would have continuously been compared to Tyler, and I doubt there is much question that he would never have eclipsed that career.

Uhhh..., HIghlander. Josh outrebounded JJ (260 to 115) and had twice as many assists as JJ (114 to 58), more steals (39 to 27) and 82 blocks vs. 3. This is in, as you note, fewer games. The point differential was about 170 (again, four more games for JJ). McBob had a heckuva season, and I believe the other stats more than compensate for the point differential.

Kindly,
Sage

[grad_devil]

YearRkPlayerGMPFGFGAFG%2P2PA2P%3P3PA3P% FTFTAFT%TRBASTSTLBLKPTS
2003-04]4Shelden Williams37963164280.586162275.58925.400138200.6903 143436111468


Dang. I watched all of those games, and I don't remember Shelden being so prolific from 3. Maybe if he had shot more, he would've added the career 3 record to his blocks and rebounding titles.

;)

[jimsumner]

Sophomore Josh to Sophomore Sheden I will give you, but Sophomore Josh to Sophomore JJ is a bit of a stretch. Compare:


YearRkPlayerGMPFGFGAFG%2P2PA2P%3P3PA3P% FTFTAFT%TRBASTSTLBLKPTS
2006-072Josh McRoberts331164164327.502159304.523523.21797146.66 42601143982430
2003-041J.J. Redick371152172407.42370149.470102258.395143150.95 311558273589
2003-04]4Shelden Williams37963164280.586162275.58925.400138200.6903 143436111468

Shelden scored 38 more points than Josh did in 200 less minutes, but in 4 more games. To your point, the rest of their stats pretty much wash out - Josh being higher in Assists and Shelden having more blocks (although Josh was respectable there).

JJ, on the other hand, scored over 150 more points than Josh and was the #1 scoring option on the team as a Sophomore, barely edging out Deng for that honor. That holds up even if you remove ~60 points from JJ's total to account for the 4 additional games he played compared to Josh. Comparatively, a sophomore McRoberts was edged out by DeMarcus Nelson for the top scoring spot. Nelson vs. Deng isn't a fair comparison, but it's worth noting that JJ outscored Deng, while McRoberts failed to outscore Nelson. One other interesting comparison - McRoberts played more minutes than JJ despite the fact that JJ played 4 more games (35mpg to 31mpg).

Had Josh stayed 4 years, he might have equaled Shelden's contributions, and Shelden did end up with his jersey in the rafters (FWIW, I consider Shelden's honor due primarily to his defense and for his block title). That being said, I think it is highly unlikely Josh would have ended up as an all time great had he stayed 4 years without some help, which is kind of my point. If he played with JJ for 4 years the way Shelden did potentially, but that's too much of a hypothetical.

One thing is for certain. Had Josh stayed, he would have continuously been compared to Tyler, and I doubt there is much question that he would never have eclipsed that career.

McRoberts had twice as many assists as a sophomore center as Redick did as a sophomore wing. So, perhaps that accounts for the scoring differential.

Take McRoberts' total points, add two points for each assist. Do the same for Redick. Divide by games played. McRoberts provided more points than did Redick and the gap widens if we assume that not all assists were for two-point field goals.

And McRoberts was first-team All-ACC defense. Nobody ever claimed that Redick was anything more than an adequate defender.

Redick was a specialist, McRoberts a generalist. To evaluate the two solely on the basis of Redick's specialty while ignoring McRoberts' superiority in virtually every other aspect of the game seems like a reach to me.

[awhom111]

eurohoops.net is also taking the preseason to rank players, doing a Top 100 for players on Euroleague teams only. Our three guys all check in with Nolan at #73, Marty at #66, and DeMarcus at #65.

[phaedrus]

McRoberts had twice as many assists as a sophomore center as Redick did as a sophomore wing. So, perhaps that accounts for the scoring differential.

Take McRoberts' total points, add two points for each assist. Do the same for Redick. Divide by games played. McRoberts provided more points than did Redick and the gap widens if we assume that not all assists were for two-point field goals.

And McRoberts was first-team All-ACC defense. Nobody ever claimed that Redick was anything more than an adequate defender.

Redick was a specialist, McRoberts a generalist. To evaluate the two solely on the basis of Redick's specialty while ignoring McRoberts' superiority in virtually every other aspect of the game seems like a reach to me.

As I recall, no one in the country surpassed McRoberts that year in each of points, rebounds, assists, and blocks. In a sense, he was the best generalist in the country.

Have we adequately made the case for his jersey retirement?

[Highlander]

McRoberts had twice as many assists as a sophomore center as Redick did as a sophomore wing. So, perhaps that accounts for the scoring differential.

Take McRoberts' total points, add two points for each assist. Do the same for Redick. Divide by games played. McRoberts provided more points than did Redick and the gap widens if we assume that not all assists were for two-point field goals.

And McRoberts was first-team All-ACC defense. Nobody ever claimed that Redick was anything more than an adequate defender.

Redick was a specialist, McRoberts a generalist. To evaluate the two solely on the basis of Redick's specialty while ignoring McRoberts' superiority in virtually every other aspect of the game seems like a reach to me.

Fair points. The reason I didn't look at rebounds or blocks because I thought it a bit unfair to compare a PF's stats in those categories to those of a SG, although Josh was clearly better. For the same reason I didn't include their 3pt shooting, although JJ was clearly better in that category. Both positions shoot and score, and it's not unreasonable for a PF to outscore a SG, so I focused on total points. Taking assists into account does give Josh a 19.9 adjusted scoring average and JJ a 19.0 average. I could quibble that PFs pass more than SG's in Duke's offense, but that would take away from the fact that McRoberts was exceptional at it. Josh did leave 45 points at the line during the season compared to JJ in roughly the same # of FT's, but not sure how you'd account for missed opportunities. In a similar vein, neither stands out much when comparing steals to TO's (Josh has more of both). But going down that road I think misses the forest for the trees. At any rate, I see your point that if you look broadly across their total contributions, they are all relatively the same.

For me, the fact that Josh wasn't the #1 scoring option on the team as a Soph that bowed out early, despite being its best player and JJ was on a team where Deng was more talented and that went to the FF gives JJ the clear edge overall. But that's just my opinion.

[jimsumner]

Fair points. The reason I didn't look at rebounds or blocks because I thought it a bit unfair to compare a PF's stats in those categories to those of a SG, although Josh was clearly better. For the same reason I didn't include their 3pt shooting, although JJ was clearly better in that category. Both positions shoot and score, and it's not unreasonable for a PF to outscore a SG, so I focused on total points. Taking assists into account does give Josh a 19.9 adjusted scoring average and JJ a 19.0 average. I could quibble that PFs pass more than SG's in Duke's offense, but that would take away from the fact that McRoberts was exceptional at it. Josh did leave 45 points at the line during the season compared to JJ in roughly the same # of FT's, but not sure how you'd account for missed opportunities. In a similar vein, neither stands out much when comparing steals to TO's (Josh has more of both). But going down that road I think misses the forest for the trees. At any rate, I see your point that if you look broadly across their total contributions, they are all relatively the same.

For me, the fact that Josh wasn't the #1 scoring option on the team as a Soph that bowed out early, despite being its best player and JJ was on a team where Deng was more talented and that went to the FF gives JJ the clear edge overall. But that's just my opinion.

McRoberts size advantage should give him an advantage in rebounds and blocked shots but should put him at a disadvantage in assists and steals. But he was superior in al four categories. What should have been a wash was not a wash.

Some Duke PF's have been effective passers. Some have not. Check out Lance Thomas for the latter. There's certainly nothing in Duke's system that leads to a post player having more assist opportunities than a wing. Plenty of Duke wings have been exceptional passers. Dawkins, G. Hill, J. Williams, Collins, N. Smith et. al. McRoberts was just a better passer than Redick. Still is.

FWIW, McRoberts mostly played the 5 as a sophomore. And Redick was mostly a 3 in 2004.

I think in this case, team success is a bit of a reach as a basis of comparison. Duke did not have a single senior in 2007 and Nelson was the only junior. Paulus was the starting point, while Scheyer was the only one of the four freshmen to have good season.

Contrast to 2004. Senior point guard Chris Duhon was the team's best player, runner-up for ACC POY. Junior Dan Ewing shared the wing spot with Redick, while Shelden Williams and Luol Deng started at the 5 and 4. McRoberts was the only Duke player to make All-ACC in 2007, while Redick was one of four to earn that distinction in 2004. So, I think it's reasonable to feel that Redick had a lot more support as a sophomore than did McRoberts as a sophomore. A lot.

[COYS]

Contrast to 2004. Senior point guard Chris Duhon was the team's best player, runner-up for ACC POY. Junior Dan Ewing shared the wing spot with Redick, while Shelden Williams and Luol Deng started at the 5 and 4. McRoberts was the only Duke player to make All-ACC in 2007, while Redick was one of four to earn that distinction in 2004. So, I think it's reasonable to feel that Redick had a lot more support as a sophomore than did McRoberts as a sophomore. A lot.

Great points, as always, Jim. To add to this, I always wonder what woulda/coulda/shoulda been if the 2008 team had Josh on it. We often remember that team as being supremely disappointing as we lost to Clemson in the ACC Semi's, scraped by Belmont in the first round of the Tourney, then lost to WVU in the second round. However, this belies just how good that team actually was, especially when you consider the size disadvantage it faced against basically every opponent. Even after that late season swoon, the team finished 10th in KenPom, featuring the #9 defense and the #19 offense in the country. The team accomplished this while relying heavily on a freshman Kyle and sophomores Jon, Gerald, and Lance. It featured an ace defender in senior DeMarcus and hot three point shooting from Greg. What it lacked was a true playmaker on offense (Jon was already showing signs of the player he would become by his senior year, but the staff wasn't ready to give him the reigns to the offense) and some actual size to protect Kyle on defense. Josh would've slotted perfectly into that role. He would have done well with that team's fast pace and bevy of offensive options (Kyle, Jon, Gerald, Greg, DeMarcus, and even Nolan to a certain extent). He also could have guarded the opposing team's center, leaving Kyle and (to a lesser extent, Lance) to guard guys closer to their size and hopefully prevent them from wearing out.

Personally, I think he could have been the difference between Duke wearing out against UNC in Cameron and against physical Clemson during the ACCT and Duke getting some impressive wins. Also, Josh makes Kyle's foul trouble against WVU a lot less damaging. Obviously, one can't go back in time and simply insert Josh into the lineup without dramatically changing the team dynamic. Maybe it would have been a disaster. However, from an outside perspective it certainly seems like Josh was almost exactly what the 2008 team was missing.

[Des Esseintes]

ESPN posted a Top 500 player breakdown, huh. What should be talk about? Oh, right. This is a terrific opportunity for spoiled, ignorant fans to blame Josh McRoberts all over again for not having more talented teammates. Cool, cool.

[sagegrouse]

ESPN posted a Top 500 player breakdown, huh. What should be talk about? Oh, right. This is a terrific opportunity for spoiled, ignorant fans to blame Josh McRoberts all over again for not having more talented teammates. Cool, cool.

It is almost a Shakespearean scene:


King Duncan:
Is execution done on Cawdor? Are not
Those in commission yet return'd?

Malcolm:
... But I have spoke
With one that saw him die; who did report
That very frankly he confessed his treasons,
Implor'd your Highness' pardon, and set forth
A deep repentance. Nothing in his life
Became him like the leaving it.

Twas the opposite with young Josh: Nothing in Josh's Duke career holds a candle to the way he departed -- two years early, with promise unfulfilled and raging fans never forgetting.