Wally Wade changes

[grossbus]

noted in the front page article that field will be lowered. anyone know how much? hope they include good drainage system.

[Gargoyle]

Here is a write-up from the News and Record.

http://www.news-record.com/blogs/sports_extra/duke-unveils-wallace-wade-renovation-plans/article_5f67cf8c-43f9-11e4-a0d8-001a4bcf6878.html

[Duvall]

Duke release on the addition of 311 restrooms, as well as other cosmetic changes. (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209674388&DB_OEM_ID=4200)


Duke University will launch three projects to enhance Wallace Wade Stadium following the current season, Vice President and Director of Athletics Dr. Kevin White announced on Wednesday. This past weekend, the Duke Board of Trustees approved design and granted construction authorization for the three initiatives, which are being funded entirely by private gifts specifically for the renovation.

The three developments include a new tower to replace the Finch-Yeager Building on the west side of the stadium, a new video board and speaker arrangement to be located in the south end zone as well as concourse enhancements on the North and West Gates of the facility, which opened in 1929 as Duke Stadium and was renamed for Hall of Fame coach Wallace Wade in 1967.

[fogey]

noted in the front page article that field will be lowered. anyone know how much? hope they include good drainage system.

Hope they lower it plenty, to allow for construction of new seating much closer to the field (where the track is?) that do not impede views of established seats! Give it unique feel, a la Cameron! Really exciting.

[mattman91]

noted in the front page article that field will be lowered. anyone know how much? hope they include good drainage system.

I remember reading they originally were going to lower it 10 feet. This was considered when they were planning to close the bowl. Now, I believe the new plan calls to only lower it 5 feet, which doesn't make a whole lot a sense to me.

[Zeb]

Now, I believe the new plan calls to only lower it 5 feet, which doesn't make a whole lot a sense to me.

I have heard we planned to lower the field so we could eliminate the track and add new seats. Given the attendance we've seen so far this season, I could understand if we decided that additional seating is not a priority and instead we're trying to make the current capacity more alluring. But if we're not adding new seats (and this article doesn't mention any), why lower the field now?

[BigWayne]

I have heard we planned to lower the field so we could eliminate the track and add new seats. Given the attendance we've seen so far this season, I could understand if we decided that additional seating is not a priority and instead we're trying to make the current capacity more alluring. But if we're not adding new seats (and this article doesn't mention any), why lower the field now?

This press release covers the next phase of what has been approved by the BOT. The lowering of the field and seat addition was already approved earlier.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209543028

Duke’s project will add approximately 3,000 seats to Wallace Wade — an extra 8-10 rows closer to the field. Many of those seats will be new, individual seats with backs. In fact, a large number of seats in the bowl will be converted from bleachers to individual seats — eventually seven sections on both the East and the West sides.

The first conversions are already going in, as the seven East side sections are being installed this summer. That will be the only significant change to Wade Stadium for the coming season.
The real work — and it will be massive — begins as soon as the 2014 Devils play their final home game (Nov. 29 vs. Wake Forest).

The first stage — the track removal, the lowering of field and the extension of the stands — has already been approved by the Board of Trustees. That part of the timetable is set.

[Jarhead]

I have heard we planned to lower the field so we could eliminate the track and add new seats. Given the attendance we've seen so far this season, I could understand if we decided that additional seating is not a priority and instead we're trying to make the current capacity more alluring. But if we're not adding new seats (and this article doesn't mention any), why lower the field now?
Making room for more fans is certainly one of the hopes for the new plan, as is a better view of the playing field. Another hope is that improvements in the football program will continue. As the team improves its record people in the triangle who have no connection to Duke will begin buying tickets to the home games. I am one of the few posters on this board that have been in our stadium with nearly 60,000 fans. That's an astounding bunch of folks when one considers the fact that the entire student body numbered somewhere around 6,000 students. Those crowds were populated buy the people of Durham and the surrounding counties. There were alumni too, but they were also small in number. The Durham folks, the tobacco and textile workers, and Duke Hospital employees probably made up about half of the over 50K fans. As bad as the program has been the last bunch of years, it will take some time to bring the crowds back.

We don't have many tobacco or textile workers anymore, but the students and alumni are more than doubled. The population of the Triangle area has gotten up beyond seven figures. It was barely over 5 figures back then The goal is to attract some percentage of them to see Duke Football. Aside from the improvements in the team and coaching, another thing that will help is to improve the viewing experience. Lowering the field is one way of doing that. I don't know the precise geometry of a lowered field, but it will move the stands as much as ten feet closer to the playing field. Sitting in those rows is an attraction in itself, but my seats, on about the 48th yard line about thirty rows up in the stands have a very poor view over sidelines. All of those players, coaches, water boys and girls, officials, and news media standing around, don't you know. Any view of action within 5 to 10 yards of the sideline is obstructed from my view.

Lowering the field 5 feet, the probable figure, will help a lot. In fact, I'd like them to make it somewhat lower, but I'm not an engineer. I don't have a clue as to how many rows of seats that will get us, but I'll have a better view.

[duke79]

I have heard we planned to lower the field so we could eliminate the track and add new seats. Given the attendance we've seen so far this season, I could understand if we decided that additional seating is not a priority and instead we're trying to make the current capacity more alluring. But if we're not adding new seats (and this article doesn't mention any), why lower the field now?

Yea, no doubt the stadium could use a major upgrade (although from I can see on TV, it looks about 400% better than when I was a student in the late 70's and early 80's. It was truly down in the dumps in those days. I vaguely remember wooden, splinter-filled, vintage-1962 benches for seats). I have to admit from watching a couple of the games on TV this year and games in the past few years, the attendance looks pathetic (and I realize the camera angle is facing towards the visitor side of the field but even still. The stadium looks about 30% full when they show a full shot of the whole stadium). I truly feel sorry for Coach Cut, the rest of the coaching staff and the players. I think they REALLY deserve better from the fans. I sometimes wonder if Coach Cut longs for the days at Tennessee or Ole Miss when he was coaching in front of 60,000 or 70,000 screaming fans? It has to be somewhat depressing.

I'm no marketing expert but I wonder if there isn't a better way to attract fans to the games (including students. I mean, heck, aren't there 15,000 students at Duke now. What else is there to do on Saturday afternoons? Study for the LSAT's?). I think maybe they should just give away tickets to some of the less attractive games to get bodies into the seats. They can make some money on concessions and other stuff. In a sense, the marginal cost is almost negligible to letting more people come to the games. I suppose the other alternative is try to schedule more marquee games, a la Alabama, Notre Dame, Stanford, USC, Tennessee, etc. They would bring more people out to the games but wouldn't help the win/loss record much.

I'm glad the university (or the donors really) is stepping up to the plate to renovate the stadium. The football program deserves it. Let's hope they can figure out how to get more bodies in the stadium on game days.

[uh_no]

I'm no marketing expert but I wonder if there isn't a better way to attract fans to the games (including students. I mean, heck, aren't there 15,000 students at Duke now. What else is there to do on Saturday afternoons? Study for the LSAT's?). I think maybe they should just give away tickets to some of the less attractive games to get bodies into the seats.

They already do

employee day
military day
etc.

plus student tickets are free. Also, there are only 6500 undergrads...and many of the grad students a) live off campus and what grad student is gonna pony up bucks for parking (and then walk). b) have a bazillion other things on their plate, so spending big chunks of time getting to and from the game, plus the game time itself is a big ask. c) they don't sell ramen noodles at the game :P

[Olympic Fan]

Making room for more fans is certainly one of the hopes for the new plan, as is a better view of the playing field. Another hope is that improvements in the football program will continue. As the team improves its record people in the triangle who have no connection to Duke will begin buying tickets to the home games. I am one of the few posters on this board that have been in our stadium with nearly 60,000 fans. That's an astounding bunch of folks when one considers the fact that the entire student body numbered somewhere around 6,000 students. Those crowds were populated buy the people of Durham and the surrounding counties. There were alumni too, but they were also small in number. The Durham folks, the tobacco and textile workers, and Duke Hospital employees probably made up about half of the over 50K fans. As bad as the program has been the last bunch of years, it will take some time to bring the crowds back.


You must be older than me to remember crowds that big ...

The stadium attendance record is 57,500 -- for a visit by Choo Choo Justice and UNC in 1949. Until the mid-1970s, that was the largest crowd to see a football game in the state of North Carolina.

Two years earlier, in 1947 Duke-UNC drew 56,500 -- the second largest crowd. The Rose Bowl was third on Jan. 1, 1942 -- 56,000.

Duke has topped 50,000 just once since 1951 -- 51,500 for the 1971 Duke-UNC game.

Soon after that, Duke removed the 10,000 or so "temporary" bleachers around the top of the concourse (which had been there since the 1930s). For big games in the 30s and 40s, they also added real temporary bleachers in the end zone and around the inside of the lower wall of the horseshoe.

I could have missed one, but since 1971, the two biggest home football crowds I can find are the 1975 Duke-UNC game (42,100) and the 1989 Duke-State game (41,200). There may have been a concert or graduation with bigger crowds, but I did check the big track and field meets Duke hosted in the '70s and the largest single day crowd was 38,500 for the second day of the USA-USSR Meet in 1974 (that's the second largest non-Olympic track crowd in US history).

The biggest home crowd in the Cut era appears to be 33,941 -- that was the announced attendance for both the 2009 opener against Elon and the 2012 Duke-UNC game.

[Duvall]

Video displaying renderings of the next set of Duke facilities upgrades. (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?&db_oem_id=4200&id=3427598)

Kevin White's presentation from this morning, which includes the video above. (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&db_oem_id=4200)

[Bluedog]

You must be older than me to remember crowds that big ...

The stadium attendance record is 57,500 -- for a visit by Choo Choo Justice and UNC in 1949. Until the mid-1970s, that was the largest crowd to see a football game in the state of North Carolina.

Two years earlier, in 1947 Duke-UNC drew 56,500 -- the second largest crowd. The Rose Bowl was third on Jan. 1, 1942 -- 56,000.

Duke has topped 50,000 just once since 1951 -- 51,500 for the 1971 Duke-UNC game.

Soon after that, Duke removed the 10,000 or so "temporary" bleachers around the top of the concourse (which had been there since the 1930s). For big games in the 30s and 40s, they also added real temporary bleachers in the end zone and around the inside of the lower wall of the horseshoe.

I could have missed one, but since 1971, the two biggest home football crowds I can find are the 1975 Duke-UNC game (42,100) and the 1989 Duke-State game (41,200). There may have been a concert or graduation with bigger crowds, but I did check the big track and field meets Duke hosted in the '70s and the largest single day crowd was 38,500 for the second day of the USA-USSR Meet in 1974 (that's the second largest non-Olympic track crowd in US history).

The biggest home crowd in the Cut era appears to be 33,941 -- that was the announced attendance for both the 2009 opener against Elon and the 2012 Duke-UNC game.

Actually, the attendance for the Alabama at Duke game in 2010 was the most in the Cut era at 39,042. They brought in extra stands to be able to fit all the fans coming from Alabama. So, that was within spitting distance of those 1975 and 1989 crowds. Not often does one get to correct Olympic Fan! ;) But, seriously, thanks for all the great historical insight into these things.

[Tom B.]

The biggest home crowd in the Cut era appears to be 33,941 -- that was the announced attendance for both the 2009 opener against Elon and the 2012 Duke-UNC game.





If I'm not mistaken, 33,941 is the "official" capacity for the stadium, meaning those two games were sellouts. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that every game with that announced attendance has exactly that many butts in seats. It could be less (if, for instance, some season ticket holders don't show up and their seats go unused -- I think those are still counted as occupied seats because they're paid for), or it could be more, depending on how many folks get squeezed in while the fire marshal's not looking. Just like the announced attendance for games in Cameron is always 9,314, even for early-season games against Podunk U. (when there are clearly empty seats upstairs and often gaps in the student section), or the Carolina game (when every seat upstairs is filled and the student section is packed at maximum density).

I was in Wally Wade when Carolina played Duke in 1994 (Fred Goldsmith's first year as head coach, which was Duke's last decent team pre-Cut), and the place was full. The announced attendance was 40,103.

[sagegrouse]

You must be older than me to remember crowds that big ...

The stadium attendance record is 57,500 -- for a visit by Choo Choo Justice and UNC in 1949. Until the mid-1970s, that was the largest crowd to see a football game in the state of North Carolina.

Two years earlier, in 1947 Duke-UNC drew 56,500 -- the second largest crowd. The Rose Bowl was third on Jan. 1, 1942 -- 56,000.

Duke has topped 50,000 just once since 1951 -- 51,500 for the 1971 Duke-UNC game.

Soon after that, Duke removed the 10,000 or so "temporary" bleachers around the top of the concourse (which had been there since the 1930s). For big games in the 30s and 40s, they also added real temporary bleachers in the end zone and around the inside of the lower wall of the horseshoe.

I could have missed one, but since 1971, the two biggest home football crowds I can find are the 1975 Duke-UNC game (42,100) and the 1989 Duke-State game (41,200). There may have been a concert or graduation with bigger crowds, but I did check the big track and field meets Duke hosted in the '70s and the largest single day crowd was 38,500 for the second day of the USA-USSR Meet in 1974 (that's the second largest non-Olympic track crowd in US history).

The biggest home crowd in the Cut era appears to be 33,941 -- that was the announced attendance for both the 2009 opener against Elon and the 2012 Duke-UNC game.

A decade earlier, we had 40,000+ crowds for one or two games every year: Navy in 1960 (the Navy goat game w/ Joe Bellino) and 1963 (w/ Roger Staubach); UNC in 1961 and 1963; Georgia Tech in 1960 and 1962, which was from the '40s through the mid-60's a very big regional match-up in the South.

[fuse]

http://acc.blogs.starnewsonline.com/15555/duke-adding-extra-seats-for-alabama/

Article says under 38k capacity for Duke-Alabama.
My memory is not the best, I was at that game and thought attendance was announced at 49k.

Everyone was shoulder to shoulder in the stands, and the concourse was also almost impossible to navigate.

I tried to find a more official record, this link says 39k.
http://www.northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/468/entry

[uh_no]

Ithink we can get there. It takes time...and hard to judge based on ooc games...which have been either hot or rainy so far. Win this next one and well see some big crowds the rest of the way....also maybe time to stop charging stupid amounts for food...


That said...snapped a few pics of the new track last week. Ill post later

[lucybluebear]

I remember being at a Duke - Clemson game in the late 60's . I was sitting in temporary seating. Duke lost 9 - 3. Seemed like more than 40,000

[Son of Jarhead]

I have heard we planned to lower the field so we could eliminate the track and add new seats. Given the attendance we've seen so far this season, I could understand if we decided that additional seating is not a priority and instead we're trying to make the current capacity more alluring. But if we're not adding new seats (and this article doesn't mention any), why lower the field now?

From what I heard, the number of feet lower is indeed 5, and they will be adding seats. New seating will be added below the current wall around the track (thus the need to lower the field and remove the track), as well as in the new tower in the form of luxury box seating and box seating hanging from the front of the tower. Not sure how many that will add, but if I had to guess, I'd say a few thousand at least. I would be glad if it is enough to hit 40,000.



You must be older than me to remember crowds that big ...

The stadium attendance record is 57,500 -- for a visit by Choo Choo Justice and UNC in 1949. Until the mid-1970s, that was the largest crowd to see a football game in the state of North Carolina.

Duke has topped 50,000 just once since 1951 -- 51,500 for the 1971 Duke-UNC game.

Soon after that, Duke removed the 10,000 or so "temporary" bleachers around the top of the concourse (which had been there since the 1930s).

Well, Jarhead is getting up there, but... he's well preserved. ;) ... I think 57,500 qualifies as "nearly 60,000" and, well, he was there for that game. :)

When Jarhead first came to Duke, Wallace Wade was still the coach. I know this because, as The Son of Jarhead, he has told me at least 100 times, usually including a tidbit about Wade sitting on the bench during the game with his players staying behind the bench so he could see the field (which had the added bonus of improving the fans view as well).

I'm pretty certain I was at the '71 unc game, I remember the huge crowd... and I remember finding all sorts of interesting things under those bleachers around the top of the stadium when going under them to retrieve the small blue plastic football Jarhead had given to me and The Other Sons of Jarhead to toss about (as if either of them could throw the darn thing in the ocean while floating in it!). Oh, and the unc fans were every bit as rude then, even to a 7-yr old kid. :mad:

Great memories! Still blessed to be able to go to games with my Pops, even if I have heard his stories many times over, I still love them with every telling.

We will likely never get back to the big crowds of Jarhead's memories, but if we keep winning and can attract in some folks from the community at large, something near 40,000 is a reasonable size. I will miss those big shade trees under which we on the away side escape the sun pregame & at halftime which appear from the drawings to be going bye-bye, but I am looking forward to seeing the finished product... and many, many more wins! Go Duke!!!!

[uh_no]

From what I heard, the number of feet lower is indeed 5, and they will be adding seats. New seating will be added below the current wall around the track (thus the need to lower the field and remove the track), as well as in the new tower in the form of luxury box seating and box seating hanging from the front of the tower. Not sure how many that will add, but if I had to guess, I'd say a few thousand at least. I would be glad if it is enough to hit 40,000.


I think 40k would be a stretch. the plans i've seen only show the new rows of seats behind the endzone and along the sidelines....not ALL the way around....so only another thousand or 2 at MOST. The new tower probably won't support more than 1k more than today.

so i'd say next year's capacity will be ~36k

empty seats are worse than a sellout IMO....so i'm okay with playing conservative with the expansions...especially when they don't inhibit future additions, such as closing the bowl and adding a second deck (as some plans have shown)

[Duvall]

I think 40k would be a stretch. the plans i've seen only show the new rows of seats behind the endzone and along the sidelines....not ALL the way around....so only another thousand or 2 at MOST. The new tower probably won't support more than 1k more than today.

so i'd say next year's capacity will be ~36k

empty seats are worse than a sellout IMO....so i'm okay with playing conservative with the expansions...especially when they don't inhibit future additions, such as closing the bowl and adding a second deck (as some plans have shown)

40,000 was the number given at Wednesday's presser. I suppose it could be an approximation.

[Bob Green]

I'm looking forward to the stadium improvements and agree with those posters who have stated it takes time to rebuild the local fan base. If we keep winning, attendance will improve. However, the administration really needs to aggressively market the product as attendance at Kansas and Tulane games was pathetic (lots of tickets given away for the Elon game). Giving tickets away is better than empty seats seeing as folks will pay to park, buy food during the game, visit the student store, etc...Specifically, whole sections of the stadium were empty last Saturday against Tulane. Sections 2, 10, 11, 12 jump to the front of my mind as being completely void of butts in seats.

As far as the seats, closer to the field, I take in the games from Section 19 behind the north end zone and prefer to sit toward the top no more than seven or eight rows down as that location allows a good view of both ends of the field. The farther down into the stadium you go the more difficult it is to see the action on the south end of the field.

Finally, in regard to the new scoreboard and audio/video system, I hope it comes equipped with a volume control as currently the audio in Wallace Wade Stadium is too loud!

[budwom]

yeah, get the PA announcer some Prozac, especially on THIRD DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chrishoke]

40,000 was the number given at Wednesday's presser. I suppose it could be an approximation.

That number includes seating in the new Duke Tower.

[aimo]

The new blue seats suck. They are hot. You're soaked with sweat when you get up. There is even less leg room than in Cameron! Imagine that! And they are going to be trashed by the end of the season, they're so flimsy. Watch how people step all over them. They're already scuffed up, and it's only been three games. I actually miss the bleachers.

[Scorp4me]

why lower the field now?

Because if they don't people will continue to complain about the track lol.

I think the seats are a bad idea at this time. It's easy to see an empty seat but you can spread out on a bench and make the stadium look "more full". I'm not saying seats aren't more comfortable or anything like that, just that with the current situation retaining the benches might have been the best idea.

Also, I think this is a time where lots of schools, heck lots of different sports and pro teams even, are struggling to fill their stadiums. Times have changed, better access to the sports on television and such make it harder to get people out of the house. If I were in charge I'd worry less with adding seats and simply focus on making it the best looking, etc., we can make the stadium.

I'd lower it to complete the bowl, make the spacing extremely comfortable so that few seats are actually added, and I definitely wouldn't close in the bowl. WW is a great place and it can be made great again without sacrificing what it is now. Unfortunately it seems admin has part of that, fans are wanting another half, and we're ending up with a mix. It's not a terrible mix, but could be better.

I'd rather wait than do it wrong. The track has never bothered me and I've heard many visitors comment on how much nicer the stadium is (age not withstanding) than their own. But I think admin is being pressured to act now and it is legitimate pressure. Should have been done long ago, just wish they would get it right on the first try :)

[duke09hms]

No, it's imperative to lower the field and take out the track as soon as possible. The track makes Duke look like a high school football program and is a laughingstock. No respectable college football program has a track around their football field. I think so far, the plan is ideal.

We shouldn't drop a lot of cash to increase capacity because it's uncertain whether we can ever fill it consistently in this day and age, and we aren't. We scuppered the 2012 plans to close the horseshoe, which were previously going to increase capacity by 10k to 44k. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/20425719/duke-announces-major-renovations-for-83-year-old-wallace-wade-stadium

The small increase in capacity given what's formally approved is a necessity to bring seating as close as possible to the field, and we're building bleachers down from the current sideline bleachers.

Our academic/athletic peers all have similar-sized stadiums that look great. All with no track.
Vanderbilt: 40k
Northwestern: 47k
Stanford: 50k (actually dropped capacity from 85k in 2005 while removing the track)
West Point: 38k

Given that we're not in any major city like Nashville/Bay Area/Chicago, I'd be happy with a final capacity of <40k, and if we can fill it consistently like West Point, that'd be great. I'm all for quality over quantity.

[Son of Jarhead]

I think 40k would be a stretch. the plans i've seen only show the new rows of seats behind the endzone and along the sidelines....not ALL the way around....so only another thousand or 2 at MOST. The new tower probably won't support more than 1k more than today, so i'd say next year's capacity will be ~36k.


40,000 was the number given at Wednesday's presser. I suppose it could be an approximation.


That number includes seating in the new Duke Tower.

From today's Durham Herald Sun article:

The new Wallace Wade Stadium will seat nearly 40,000...

The stadium’s track will be removed so the field can be lowered, which will allow 4,000 additional seats to be added along the playing field.

Link: http://www.heraldsun.com/breakingnews/x711471908/LIVING-THE-DREAM

As Duvall says, an approximation. It seems 4,000 around the bottom, and as ChrisHoke includes, I'd say approximately 1,000 in the seats hanging off the front of the new Duke Tower, and a few hundred or more inside the tower. Throw in some more in the new ADA seating areas being added around the top of the stadium, and you get near to that 40,000 number. I think that is an appropriate size for Duke. We definitely have to get those seats filled or all this doesn't really matter. One thought I had is that maybe non-conference opponents that are more appealing to casual fans would help. Kansas & Tulane didn't bring anybody along with them, nor create any buzz. Elon actually brought more fans with them than I thought they possessed, so in-state teams make sense. ECU certainly, but App St and maybe Charlotte as well, would bring good numbers. NCCU is a good choice, the local buzz is helpful. Maybe even my own WCU would bring decent numbers (though I'd go broke hosting hundreds myself :cool: ). As others have pointed out, competition for people's entertainment dollars and attention is different now and much more difficult. Continued winning and an improved game-day experience are our best hope of attracting folks to WW. Cut, his coaches, & the players are taking care of the winning, and these facility improvements should help with the game day experience.

[duke09hms]

From today's Durham Herald Sun article:



Link: http://www.heraldsun.com/breakingnews/x711471908/LIVING-THE-DREAM

As Duvall says, an approximation. It seems 4,000 around the bottom, and as ChrisHoke includes, I'd say approximately 1,000 in the seats hanging off the front of the new Duke Tower, and a few hundred or more inside the tower. Throw in some more in the new ADA seating areas being added around the top of the stadium, and you get near to that 40,000 number. I think that is an appropriate size for Duke. We definitely have to get those seats filled or all this doesn't really matter. One thought I had is that maybe non-conference opponents that are more appealing to casual fans would help. Kansas & Tulane didn't bring anybody along with them, nor create any buzz. Elon actually brought more fans with them than I thought they possessed, so in-state teams make sense. ECU certainly, but App St and maybe Charlotte as well, would bring good numbers. NCCU is a good choice, the local buzz is helpful. Maybe even my own WCU would bring decent numbers (though I'd go broke hosting hundreds myself :cool: ). As others have pointed out, competition for people's entertainment dollars and attention is different now and much more difficult. Continued winning and an improved game-day experience are our best hope of attracting folks to WW. Cut, his coaches, & the players are taking care of the winning, and these facility improvements should help with the game day experience.

In their presentation, Dr. White or some other director said the new tower would hold around 2,000 seats. Add the 4,000 seats that will be closer to the field, and we get pretty close to the 40,000 approximation by the 2016 season. I personally don't think we should expand beyond 40k unless we're consistently selling out, and can think of all sorts of better uses for that money (financial aid, dorm renovation).

[Son of Jarhead]

In their presentation, Dr. White or some other director said the new tower would hold around 2,000 seats. Add the 4,000 seats that will be closer to the field, and we get pretty close to the 40,000 approximation by the 2016 season. I personally don't think we should expand beyond 40k unless we're consistently selling out, and can think of all sorts of better uses for that money (financial aid, dorm renovation).

I agree. I don't think we'll see additional expansion beyond this "nearly 40,000" any time soon, if ever. Even if we do have consistent sell-outs, I can see Duke treating WW like Cameron.

[duke79]

Because if they don't people will continue to complain about the track lol.

I think the seats are a bad idea at this time. It's easy to see an empty seat but you can spread out on a bench and make the stadium look "more full". I'm not saying seats aren't more comfortable or anything like that, just that with the current situation retaining the benches might have been the best idea.

Also, I think this is a time where lots of schools, heck lots of different sports and pro teams even, are struggling to fill their stadiums. Times have changed, better access to the sports on television and such make it harder to get people out of the house. If I were in charge I'd worry less with adding seats and simply focus on making it the best looking, etc., we can make the stadium.

I'd lower it to complete the bowl, make the spacing extremely comfortable so that few seats are actually added, and I definitely wouldn't close in the bowl. WW is a great place and it can be made great again without sacrificing what it is now. Unfortunately it seems admin has part of that, fans are wanting another half, and we're ending up with a mix. It's not a terrible mix, but could be better.

I'd rather wait than do it wrong. The track has never bothered me and I've heard many visitors comment on how much nicer the stadium is (age not withstanding) than their own. But I think admin is being pressured to act now and it is legitimate pressure. Should have been done long ago, just wish they would get it right on the first try :)

Agree totally with you. Thanks for posting. I don't think lack of seating capacity is going to be the problem for Duke football, except for maybe a few premier games. They might actually want to go in the opposite direction. Reduce the number of seats, give people more seat and leg room, improve the quality of seats, etc. I think, visually, it looks much better to have 25,000 people in a 30,000 seat stadium than 25,000 in a 40,000 seat stadium. I would truly think quality over quantity when it come the WW renovation.

[orrnot]

Throw in some more in the new ADA seating areas being added around the top of the stadium, and you get near to that 40,000 number.


I think you'll find that the upper ADA seating actually reduces the overall numbers. It's being installed on top of the last 2 or 3 rows of bleachers. That should allow for rolling right in on the concourse level (instead of up the small ramps now in use), and having a substantial height advantage over the new last row of bleachers. I think those views are going to be fantastic.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

They already do

employee day
military day
etc.

plus student tickets are free. Also, there are only 6500 undergrads...and many of the grad students a) live off campus and what grad student is gonna pony up bucks for parking (and then walk). b) have a bazillion other things on their plate, so spending big chunks of time getting to and from the game, plus the game time itself is a big ask. c) they don't sell ramen noodles at the game :P
Closer parking options for non-Iron Dukes. That is all.

[Son of Jarhead]

I think you'll find that the upper ADA seating actually reduces the overall numbers. It's being installed on top of the last 2 or 3 rows of bleachers. That should allow for rolling right in on the concourse level (instead of up the small ramps now in use), and having a substantial height advantage over the new last row of bleachers. I think those views are going to be fantastic.

Thanks for posting that, I didn't know we'd lose a couple rows at the top. I wasn't figuring the ADA seating would add very many, but you're right, that takes the numbers in the opposite direction. Still, the Athletic Dept. used the near 40k number, so I'll go with that, but I guess we'll have to wait to find out just how they might get there.

[CameronBornAndBred]

There are two interesting articles that I just read. Both are from two days ago, and both have valid points.
Also, if you want to read some high praise for Coach Cut, check the middle of the first article.

The issue isn’t something lacking in the gameday experience, as Duke (http://augustafreepress.com/tag/duke/) officials have suggested in their pitches for the millions in spending to improve the experience. It’s a small student body, a far-flung alumni base and lack of penetration in a local market that has competition from two large state ACC (http://augustafreepress.com/tag/acc/) schools that are less than 15 miles away.
The smart folks at Duke (http://augustafreepress.com/tag/duke/) can find 250 million other things to do with that money instead of wasting it on bright lights for football and other sports (http://augustafreepress.com/tag/sports/). The products on the field are already top-notch; spend that money on academics, research, really, anything else.

http://augustafreepress.com/duke-football-facility-upgrades-make-sense-spend-money/


Duke football has saved my football-going experience this season, for one reason. They now offer general admission tickets – in the end zone – for $30. General admission seats for $30 each! For the homecoming game this weekend, they were offering them for $25. While I would enjoy any ACC game, I bought tickets for the Duke game against, of course, Virginia Tech, on Nov. 15. I didn’t have to cringe when I paid for them.
.....
I am interested to see the improvement to Wallace Wade Stadium first hand, but I liked it pre-improvements, too. So what if the restrooms weren’t fancy and the concessions were limited. Not everything at a top tier university has to be perfect. Because once the big bucks start rolling in, the people with the big bucks are the majority of the folks there. What Duke has done with these lower priced football tickets is increased the chance people will try out the college game day experience at Duke, whether they’re rooting for the Blue Devils or not. I think they’ll like it. It’s good for Durham, too
http://www.heraldsun.com/news/x532298099/Baumgartner-Vaughan-Duke-makes-game-day-affordable

[uh_no]

There are two interesting articles that I just read. Both are from two days ago, and both have valid points.
Also, if you want to read some high praise for Coach Cut, check the middle of the first article.

http://augustafreepress.com/duke-football-facility-upgrades-make-sense-spend-money/


http://www.heraldsun.com/news/x532298099/Baumgartner-Vaughan-Duke-makes-game-day-affordable

I like the ideas, and completely agree that duke likely cannot and should not attempt to provide the same game day experience as a big time state school...it ain't going to happen. I think it took cutcliffe a couple years to understand that too.

i think there are some things, some polish, that can be thrown on the experience to aid that though....

1) inside the stadium....we know that's being worked on...closer stands, bigger scoreboard etc
2) the entrances to the stadium...honestly, it's like a dump....uneven cracked pavement, the gates literally dump into traffic circles, especially west gate....can we get a sidewalk or something??? The only way to get to the 751 lot is to walk down the middle of basset Dr where cars are driving.....then there's the lot down the bottom of the hill on west gate....can we get a staircase or something?....i had someone ask we last week while standing on basset drive, about 50 yards from the stadium where the stadium was....it's at best uninviting from the outside. not to mention the giant hill INSIDE west gate....where people with mobility impairments have to climb up to get to a place where the shuttles can pick them up...not sure how that one meats ADA....
3) scotch bar inside the stadium :P

[dpslaw]

The author of the Augusta Free Press article is ridiculously obtuse. First he states that Cut is the best coach in college football. Then he expresses amazement that Cut would stay at Duke. Finally, he argues that the money to be spent on the improvements is a waste given that Cut has decided to stay at Duke.

Apparently, it doesn't occur to him that a major reason that Cut came to Duke (and decided to stay) is that he was promised the Wallace Wade renovations.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I like the ideas, and completely agree that duke likely cannot and should not attempt to provide the same game day experience as a big time state school...it ain't going to happen. I think it took cutcliffe a couple years to understand that too.

i think there are some things, some polish, that can be thrown on the experience to aid that though....

1) inside the stadium....we know that's being worked on...closer stands, bigger scoreboard etc
2) the entrances to the stadium...honestly, it's like a dump....uneven cracked pavement, the gates literally dump into traffic circles, especially west gate....can we get a sidewalk or something??? The only way to get to the 751 lot is to walk down the middle of basset Dr where cars are driving.....then there's the lot down the bottom of the hill on west gate....can we get a staircase or something?....i had someone ask we last week while standing on basset drive, about 50 yards from the stadium where the stadium was....it's at best uninviting from the outside. not to mention the giant hill INSIDE west gate....where people with mobility impairments have to climb up to get to a place where the shuttles can pick them up...not sure how that one meats ADA....
3) scotch bar inside the stadium :P

Don't forget the fairly steep grade from the North Gate down into the stadium... a challenge for those with mobility issues or carrying young children (since strollers aren't allowed inside the gates).

In recent years, there has been a lot done with landscaping and signage to improve the appearance of the campus in general, but little, if any, has filtered to the football stadium.

[tux]

I like the ideas, and completely agree that duke likely cannot and should not attempt to provide the same game day experience as a big time state school...it ain't going to happen. I think it took cutcliffe a couple years to understand that too.

i think there are some things, some polish, that can be thrown on the experience to aid that though....

1) inside the stadium....we know that's being worked on...closer stands, bigger scoreboard etc
2) the entrances to the stadium...honestly, it's like a dump....uneven cracked pavement, the gates literally dump into traffic circles, especially west gate....can we get a sidewalk or something??? The only way to get to the 751 lot is to walk down the middle of basset Dr where cars are driving.....then there's the lot down the bottom of the hill on west gate....can we get a staircase or something?....i had someone ask we last week while standing on basset drive, about 50 yards from the stadium where the stadium was....it's at best uninviting from the outside. not to mention the giant hill INSIDE west gate....where people with mobility impairments have to climb up to get to a place where the shuttles can pick them up...not sure how that one meats ADA....
3) scotch bar inside the stadium :P


Agree on #1 and of course #3, but #2 just reads like a litany of complaints from some grumpy old curmudgeon --- sidewalks, and staircases, and hills, etc. You're not a grumpy old curmudgeon are you uh_no? Seriously, though, I think it's worth making some big improvements to WW. There's a comment from a Duke fan beneath the first linked article that puts the money in the context of the past 85 years of zero upgrades. I think that's a good way to think about it.

It's time to bring WW into the modern era of college football, even if we all bemoan the big business it's become. That said, the math is against us when it comes to filling all the seats. The coaches and players deserve a packed house, but I'm not sure where all the extra bodies are going to come from... Maybe sustained success will get us there, but the success of the last 5 years is hard-fought, but probably pretty fragile.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Agree on #1 and of course #3, but #2 just reads like a litany of complaints from some grumpy old curmudgeon --- sidewalks, and staircases, and hills, etc. You're not a grumpy old curmudgeon are you uh_no?
If you read the first article, uh_no is not the only one expressing those sentiments. Remember what they say about first impressions?


Saturday was my first visit to Wallace Wade, and quaint as it is, and I’m saying this as politely as I can, the place is a dump, a slightly overgrown D3 stadium with a sports (http://augustafreepress.com/tag/sports/) medicine center dressed up as a press box on game days, a shantytown of tents along the concourse made up to be concession stands and those scads of empty seats on all corners.

By the way, I disagree with both. Maybe because I've been going to WW since I was a kid getting splinters in my butt from the wooden benches, but I have always liked our stadium.

[tux]

If you read the first article, uh_no is not the only one expressing those sentiments. Remember what they say about first impressions?


Sure. I was really just kidding. It seems that the master plan does include a lot of improvements to the areas around the stadium, so hopefully a lot of these things get fixed.

[sagegrouse]

Don't forget the fairly steep grade from the North Gate down into the stadium... a challenge for those with mobility issues or carrying young children (since strollers aren't allowed inside the gates).

In recent years, there has been a lot done with landscaping and signage to improve the appearance of the campus in general, but little, if any, has filtered to the football stadium.

Au contraire, mon ami. I took my young grandchildren on a tour of West Campus before Saturday's game, and of the four public buildings, two are undergoing construction -- the library and the west union. The view from the Main Quad is a relentless string of curtains with prints of Duke stone covering the front of the two buildings. The entrance (and exit) from the library are now obscured from public view and difficult to find. Thank heavens for the Duke Chapel! (Is that what's called "irony?").

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

If you read the first article, uh_no is not the only one expressing those sentiments. Remember what they say about first impressions?



By the way, I disagree with both. Maybe because I've been going to WW since I was a kid getting splinters in my butt from the wooden benches, but I have always liked our stadium.

I love our stadium, too. But I've become more attuned to mobility issues in recent years because it's beginning to become important to many of my friends and contemporaries. I intend to continue attending games as long as Anita Caldwell did, but can foresee that navigating the terrain both inside and outside the stadium may become a challenge.

[uh_no]

Agree on #1 and of course #3, but #2 just reads like a litany of complaints from some grumpy old curmudgeon --- sidewalks, and staircases, and hills, etc. You're not a grumpy old curmudgeon are you uh_no? Seriously, though, I think it's worth making some big improvements to WW. There's a comment from a Duke fan beneath the first linked article that puts the money in the context of the past 85 years of zero upgrades. I think that's a good way to think about it.

It's time to bring WW into the modern era of college football, even if we all bemoan the big business it's become. That said, the math is against us when it comes to filling all the seats. The coaches and players deserve a packed house, but I'm not sure where all the extra bodies are going to come from... Maybe sustained success will get us there, but the success of the last 5 years is hard-fought, but probably pretty fragile.

no, but I drive one of the golf carts for mobility-impaired people, so I see the issues first hand. I have to tell people who can barely get up the hill "no I can't come into the stadium to get you", I watch people dodge cars, cars dodge people, and golf carts trying to dodge all of them. I apologize to riders for the extreme bumpiness of some of the paths and just wonder when someone is going to get hurt

you know how we have to get people from west gate to handicapped lot in blue zone? driving through the small crowded gap between cameron and card....it's a disaster waiting to happen.

[uh_no]

Au contraire, mon ami. I took my young grandchildren on a tour of West Campus before Saturday's game, and of the four public buildings, two are undergoing construction -- the library and the west union. The view from the Main Quad is a relentless string of curtains with prints of Duke stone covering the front of the two buildings. The entrance (and exit) from the library are now obscured from public view and difficult to find. Thank heavens for the Duke Chapel! (Is that what's called "irony?").

That's closed starting next year....it would be funny if i was kidding

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Au contraire, mon ami. I took my young grandchildren on a tour of West Campus before Saturday's game, and of the four public buildings, two are undergoing construction -- the library and the west union. The view from the Main Quad is a relentless string of curtains with prints of Duke stone covering the front of the two buildings. The entrance (and exit) from the library are now obscured from public view and difficult to find. Thank heavens for the Duke Chapel! (Is that what's called "irony?").
It's true that the recent surge in construction has made the campus less attractive. I was speaking of the interval of time when beautification occurred before West Campus was under siege. In a way, all the construction brings up images of the early days of the campus under construction, back when the area for Duke Gardens was just a ravine where construction waste and trash was dumped.

[tux]

no, but I drive one of the golf carts for mobility-impaired people, so I see the issues first hand. I have to tell people who can barely get up the hill "no I can't come into the stadium to get you", I watch people dodge cars, cars dodge people, and golf carts trying to dodge all of them. I apologize to riders for the extreme bumpiness of some of the paths and just wonder when someone is going to get hurt

you know how we have to get people from west gate to handicapped lot in blue zone? driving through the small crowded gap between cameron and card....it's a disaster waiting to happen.


I hear you. We walk to and from along that same path --- the only good thing about empty seats is that the areas around the stadium would be hard pressed to accommodate a bunch more folks. Regardless, I'm excited about the improvements and hope that these accessibility issues are a central part of the master plan... I have faith in Duke to get it right.

[uh_no]

I hear you. We walk to and from along that same path --- the only good thing about empty seats is that the areas around the stadium would be hard pressed to accommodate a bunch more folks. Regardless, I'm excited about the improvements and hope that these accessibility issues are a central part of the master plan... I have faith in Duke to get it right.

Apologies in advance if i ever run you over :)

[TruBlu]

By the way, I disagree with both. Maybe because I've been going to WW since I was a kid getting splinters in my butt from the wooden benches, but I have always liked our stadium.

Thanks for saying what I have been thinking. I love WW, and loved it even back with the wooden benches, terrible restrooms, and losing teams. I love Duke (not just Basketball) so much that I would have gone to watch Duke Football (even when it was bad) at a cow pasture in a blizzard with a swarm of cold weather locusts and with a stench of a wind blowing up 15-501, just in case we shocked the world and beat someone.

Are there areas that can be improved? Of course. But progress is being made.

I remember calls for Cameron to be torn down (instead of renovated) and a new Basketball arena to be built. WW is worth saving.

p.s. Couldn't spork you, but I tried.

[DU82]

A couple of notes from the submitted plans for the WW renovations related to the last few messages...

The concourse inside the stadium will be at one level, essentially the same level as the current concourse right behind the top wall. No hills inside the stadium. For the main entrance, a terraced approach with stairs leaving to the new gate entrance (ADA ramps provided, of course.) There will be some slope towards the gates, but not as severe as now. Ultimately, there will be a new plaza connecting the entrances to Cameron, WW and the new addition to the Murray Building (Scott Family Pavilion.) There's roughly 15 feet of elevation difference between the entrance to Cameron and the new concourse level in WW, so there's some challenges in how to transition down to the stadium level. (The Scott building will be roughly the same entrance level as Cameron; besides offices and other functions, it will have a new ticket office and team store, moving those functions from Cameron and Card. It appears the current ticket office in the Cameron lobby will become bathrooms.) Whitfield Drive will end in a circle about the same location as the walkway to the upper entrance in Cameron.

On the west entrance to WW, where the new tower will be, a level entrance to the second or third floor of the tower will be provided, with a bridge over the main entrance, which will be at concourse level. Ramps will go down the left side of the bridge entrance. The grade difference about 18 feet from the current small circle on Bassett Drive to the new concourse level. The soccer/lacrosse field walkways are about 15 feet higher than the existing Bassett circle. So there's a lot of vertical distance to deal with in the area.

So, from the plans it'll be a lot easier to navigate getting in and out of the stadium, although more stairs will be used. (Not sure where uh_no's cart will go to get close to the WW entrance, though!)

[devildeac]

Thanks for saying what I have been thinking. I love WW, and loved it even back with the wooden benches, terrible restrooms, and losing teams. I love Duke (not just Basketball) so much that I would have gone to watch Duke Football (even when it was bad) at a cow pasture in a blizzard with a swarm of cold weather locusts and with a stench of a wind blowing up 15-501, just in case we shocked the world and beat someone.

Are there areas that can be improved? Of course. But progress is being made.

I remember calls for Cameron to be torn down (instead of renovated) and a new Basketball arena to be built. WW is worth saving.

p.s. Couldn't spork you, but I tried.

(I got yours sporks covered;).)

I haven't verified but CB&B may still have those splinters and some clothing still reeking from that stench wafting up 15-501 from Orange County:rolleyes:.

[Son of Jarhead]

A couple of notes from the submitted plans for the WW renovations related to the last few messages...

The concourse inside the stadium will be at one level, essentially the same level as the current concourse right behind the top wall. No hills inside the stadium. For the main entrance, a terraced approach with stairs leaving to the new gate entrance (ADA ramps provided, of course.) There will be some slope towards the gates, but not as severe as now. Ultimately, there will be a new plaza connecting the entrances to Cameron, WW and the new addition to the Murray Building (Scott Family Pavilion.) There's roughly 15 feet of elevation difference between the entrance to Cameron and the new concourse level in WW, so there's some challenges in how to transition down to the stadium level. (The Scott building will be roughly the same entrance level as Cameron; besides offices and other functions, it will have a new ticket office and team store, moving those functions from Cameron and Card. It appears the current ticket office in the Cameron lobby will become bathrooms.) Whitfield Drive will end in a circle about the same location as the walkway to the upper entrance in Cameron.

On the west entrance to WW, where the new tower will be, a level entrance to the second or third floor of the tower will be provided, with a bridge over the main entrance, which will be at concourse level. Ramps will go down the left side of the bridge entrance. The grade difference about 18 feet from the current small circle on Bassett Drive to the new concourse level. The soccer/lacrosse field walkways are about 15 feet higher than the existing Bassett circle. So there's a lot of vertical distance to deal with in the area.

So, from the plans it'll be a lot easier to navigate getting in and out of the stadium, although more stairs will be used. (Not sure where uh_no's cart will go to get close to the WW entrance, though!)

Also, the East Gate entrance will be moved a little to the South, from it's current position behind sections 6 & 7 to the area behind section 3, allowing the gate and concourse to be at or near the same level. What they will do for the transition from the lots there by the East Gate and the entrance level is hard to tell.

My only regret... I'll miss those big shade trees on the East side, only place there is to escape the sun before the game and at halftime with out hiding behind a building or leaving the stadium. :( Other than that, I love the plans. The old girl has great bones, she'll look stunning when all is said and done. (Just, please God... no beige. Anywhere.)

Oh, and I still have some of those splinters CB&B referred to. Those wooden bleachers were brutal. Big I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. splinters! (pun intended)

[budwom]

Ack, are they going to remove my East side shade trees? Those are fabulous...

Regarding seating for those with mobility concerns: I know the seats we had until this year (when we preemptively moved)
which were at the very top of section 6 (East side next to President's box) are being removed for ADA seating..so in theory people will be
able to park in an East lot and cruise over to easy seating at the very top of the WW bowl (we love the view from there).

[OZ]

For someone who sits in the new blue seats:

Other than the brutal sun, how are the new seats working out? I have heard the rumors - hot, cramped, no leg room,etc... just wondering what the real story is.

[aimo]

For someone who sits in the new blue seats:

Other than the brutal sun, how are the new seats working out? I have heard the rumors - hot, cramped, no leg room,etc... just wondering what the real story is.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, they SUCK! Our rear-ends are soaked through when we get up, there is less leg room than in Cameron! And they are cheap. Already showing signs of wear.

[CameronBornAndBred]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, they SUCK! Our rear-ends are soaked through when we get up, there is less leg room than in Cameron! And they are cheap. Already showing signs of wear.
What boggles my mind is that didn't anyone do some research? We always talk about what a nightmare Kenan is with their seats and leg room. Why did Duke think that someone paying top dollar (The benches that got seats are obviously more than GA seats) would want a less enjoyable experience for their money? I love the blue idea, but the answer is easy...replace the silver benches with blue ones! I bet it would have been much cheaper, too.

[budwom]

For someone who sits in the new blue seats:

Other than the brutal sun, how are the new seats working out? I have heard the rumors - hot, cramped, no leg room,etc... just wondering what the real story is.

As you can see, you're going to get a range of opinions on this. I'm fine with them. Yes, if you're well over six feet tall, leg room is a problem. I'm 6 ft even, and I'm OK.
Yes, they can be hot, but this is more a function of sitting in the NC mid day sun, IMO. Benefit to me is that you don't get your back jostled every time someone
behind you moves around, rugrats can't kick you in the back, etc. They ARE good for posture as you have to sit up pretty straight with your butt back in the seat to
accommodate your legs. All in all I'm fine with them....not bad, not great. Largely a function that stadium leg room seven decades ago was based on smaller human dimensions...Cameron
being a good example. With all the concrete steps in WW, it would have been essentially impossible to create more leg room, unless you knew 10,000 guys who were really good
with jackhammers.

I've sat thru 47 years of mostly crap football in WW, so watching a good product on the field means I really don't care that much about the seats. They're adequate.

[aimo]

As you can see, you're going to get a range of opinions on this. I'm fine with them. Yes, if you're well over six feet tall, leg room is a problem. I'm 6 ft even, and I'm OK.
Yes, they can be hot, but this is more a function of sitting in the NC mid day sun, IMO. Benefit to me is that you don't get your back jostled every time someone
behind you moves around, rugrats can't kick you in the back, etc. They ARE good for posture as you have to sit up pretty straight with your butt back in the seat to
accommodate your legs. All in all I'm fine with them....not bad, not great. Largely a function that stadium leg room seven decades ago was based on smaller human dimensions...Cameron
being a good example. With all the concrete steps in WW, it would have been essentially impossible to create more leg room, unless you knew 10,000 guys who were really good
with jackhammers.

I've sat thru 47 years of mostly crap football in WW, so watching a good product on the field means I really don't care that much about the seats. They're adequate.

I'm 5'10" and my knees are wedged in there. It must be all in my legs. There is no ladylike sitting if you are tall, we have to sit with our legs spread. My niece (5'11") decided after the first game to wear jeans from then on, even when it's baking outside, b/c her shorts were leaving little to the imagination given how she was forced to sit. As for jostling and rugrats, it's still a problem, only now they kick and bump the seatback repeatedly. And when the person sitting in front of you goes to stand, the seatback shifts backward and crushes your knees even more. Our guess is that some alum owns the business that sells the seats and convinced the powersthatbe to buy from them. I'm hoping that enough people will complain so we can get bleachers back (I can't believe I'm saying that), but I know better than to hold my breath.

[killerleft]

I mentioned before that the seats are not comfortable for us short folks, either. I'm 5'3" and my feet can't rest flat on the concrete. It may seem funny to some (well, me too:o), but after a while this is very uncomfortable.The posture comment by budwom caused me to think that the lack of leg room probably is the reason the seat bottom is angled up from back to front more than is usual. In my opinion, more people will wish they'd left well-enough alone and kept the benches.

[luvdahops]

I'm 5'10" and my knees are wedged in there. It must be all in my legs. There is no ladylike sitting if you are tall, we have to sit with our legs spread. My niece (5'11") decided after the first game to wear jeans from then on, even when it's baking outside, b/c her shorts were leaving little to the imagination given how she was forced to sit. As for jostling and rugrats, it's still a problem, only now they kick and bump the seatback repeatedly. And when the person sitting in front of you goes to stand, the seatback shifts backward and crushes your knees even more. Our guess is that some alum owns the business that sells the seats and convinced the powersthatbe to buy from them. I'm hoping that enough people will complain so we can get bleachers back (I can't believe I'm saying that), but I know better than to hold my breath.

I am 5'10" and in pretty good shape, and found the seats pretty uncomfortable, not even accounting for the heat. My suggestion would be to do what Duke has done in Koskinen Stadium - put backs on the bleachers. My family and I went to two soccer games over Homecoming weekend (Men v ND, Women v UNC, both 3-0 losses unfortunately), and were much more comfortable. It is a lot easier to move past seated folks in that set-up as well.

[allenmurray]

What boggles my mind is that didn't anyone do some research? We always talk about what a nightmare Kenan is with their seats and leg room. Why did Duke think that someone paying top dollar (The benches that got seats are obviously more than GA seats) would want a less enjoyable experience for their money? I love the blue idea, but the answer is easy...replace the silver benches with blue ones! I bet it would have been much cheaper, too.

I'm 6' 2" and I'm fine with the seats. My son is 6' 4" and he is crowded. CB&B, you are really freakin' tall.

Seriously it seems the comfort cut-off point is right around 6"2". At 6"2" I'm at the 95th percentile for height. Designing a seat that accommodates 95% of folks is probably within what most architects would do. I think there are probably more people bothered by the width of the seats than by the leg room. In our country there are a lot more folks who are overly wide than there are folks who are overly tall.

[Jarhead]

I am 5'10" and in pretty good shape, and found the seats pretty uncomfortable, not even accounting for the heat. My suggestion would be to do what Duke has done in Koskinen Stadium - put backs on the bleachers. My family and I went to two soccer games over Homecoming weekend (Men v ND, Women v UNC, both 3-0 losses unfortunately), and were much more comfortable. It is a lot easier to move past seated folks in that set-up as well.

Backs on the metal benches automatically make the seats closer. So do those folding seats that people carry into the stadium. I'm 5' 11", and still shrinking as I age, but my seats are quite comfortable. My son's about 6' 1", and he seems comfortable. If you are much taller than we are, that's your misfortune. You are above average, and should be punished.;) My seats are on the 46 yard line, row EE. My son coughed up the money to get padded seats, about 50 bucks for the season, and that takes care of things for us. The metal bannisters in the aisles is another good thing. As for the new seats being hot -- so's everything when the sun shines brightly on a hot day. You can blame that on the latitude.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I'm 6' 2" and I'm fine with the seats. My son is 6' 4" and he is crowded. CB&B, you are really freakin' tall.

Seriously it seems the comfort cut-off point is right around 6"2". At 6"2" I'm at the 95th percentile for height. Designing a seat that accommodates 95% of folks is probably within what most architects would do. I think there are probably more people bothered by the width of the seats than by the leg room. In our country there are a lot more folks who are overly wide than there are folks who are overly tall.
Haha...I am only 6'4" as well, and very happy to enjoy the benches. The problem is that the stands were designed for benches. Had Wallace Wade been set up for seats, I bet the spacing would have been different. Think of movie theaters. Those places are designed with seats in mind. They want to fill as many people in as they can, but they also want the experience to be a comfortable one. To do it right, Duke would have to replace the concrete the seats sit on, and that obviously is not going to happen.

[Atldukie79]

I grew up in Durham in the 60's and attended many games in WW with my boy scout uniform as an usher. Yup...used to have boy scouts standing in every aisle helping patrons find their seat. (Got a free hot dog and coke in exchange for a free ticket and a sun burn). I too remember the 1971 game with UNC. That game also had the temporary bleachers in the end zone and on the track along with the less temporary, semi-permanent bleachers around the top.

As a student in the 70's I watched the crowds begin to thin out and now, I simply try to catch one game in WW every year...never a challenge to find a seat.

I happened to be in Durham today and wandered over to an empty WW to check out the stadium and talk to a few folks.

1) I sat in the blue seats on the east side of the stadium. At 6'1" I am used to tight stadium seats. I had plenty of clearance between me and the seat in front of me. Yes, the seats are somewhat flimsy. I must point out that I was in Grant Field at Bobby Dodd stadium to watch the Devils win. I sat in the traditional bleacher seats. While some may critique the width of the individual blue seats at WW, I was reminded of the downside of the bleacher seats... the 15 people already seated on the Tech bleacher seats covered 18 seats cheek to cheek. Kind of tough to squeeze in. That is not a problem with the individual seats. Frankly, the biggest issue is probably heat...TV noon games in the sun are a challenge.

2) The 5 foot drop in the field level is partially dictated by TV requirements...they demand certain angles for their cameras from the press box.

3) I believe the field will also be relocated a few feet toward the north end of the stadium to better align with the stadium mid point.

4) If new seats are ever to be added beyond the current plans, it will likely not be in the south end zone. The east side would likely get a second deck. I can't think of another stadium in D1 where such an expansion would cost so little(relative I know). Given the ground level starting point for such a deck, and the fact that Duke will pour footings during this construction to accommodate such a future expansion, if the demand is there, it would be relatively easy to accommodate.

[allenmurray]

Haha...I am only 6'4" as well, and very happy to enjoy the benches. The problem is that the stands were designed for benches. Had Wallace Wade been set up for seats, I bet the spacing would have been different. Think of movie theaters. Those places are designed with seats in mind. They want to fill as many people in as they can, but they also want the experience to be a comfortable one. To do it right, Duke would have to replace the concrete the seats sit on, and that obviously is not going to happen.

I miss the flexibility of the benches, but I enjoy having the back rest. For me it is a wash in terms of comfort. But from a symbolic standpoint Duke recognized it needed to make some improvements to the stadium experience for fans and did something about that. So I'm not going to be too critical.

[Dukehky]

The expansion is okay, but I would rather spend all the money making the stadium as nice as possible because Duke just isn't ever going to fill out WW as it is, let alone with thousands of more seats, and that is okay. One of the coaches tweeted that if you wanted to play in front of 80,000 people, duke probably isn't for you, but if you want to make 100,000 grand a year after you graduate, maybe give Duke a look. We don't need a bigger stadium, but we could make it nicer. This expansion is fine, but anymore than that I doubt will ever be seriously needed.

[moonpie23]

don't forget to save some $$ to upgrade the attrocious wi-fi there.......today's youth (and some older folks) are tethered to their devices.......slow wi-fi is a buzz-kill. Even if you're on LTE there, it's not very fast.....

[-jk]

don't forget to save some $$ to upgrade the attrocious wi-fi there.......today's youth (and some older folks) are tethered to their devices.......slow wi-fi is a buzz-kill. Even if you're on LTE there, it's not very fast.....

Non-trivial problem: a few hundred APs and really big, fat pipe. For 5 or 6 games a year.

-jk

[CameronBornAndBred]

don't forget to save some $$ to upgrade the attrocious wi-fi there.......today's youth (and some older folks) are tethered to their devices.......slow wi-fi is a buzz-kill. Even if you're on LTE there, it's not very fast.....
We get good reception in the parking lot and stream the ESPN3 games on my kindle to the TV. It can get a little choppy, but it can do that at home, too. I wonder if it is worse in the stadium?