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View Full Version : While discussing Duke BBall Coach K may have identified NFL's problem



MarkD83
09-22-2014, 12:22 PM
In this article from ESPN Coach K discusses how he stayed in touch with Duke BBall while coaching the USA.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/100247/team-effort-kept-duke-running-smoothly-with-coach-k-abroad


There is one quote that refers to the Duke BBall team but does summarizes the issues in the NFL.

"Krzyzewski and Capel addressed the team in Durham via Skype on their last day in New York City before leaving for Spain. They spelled out expectations including the plans for "Duke Basketball Orientation," a series of exercises to promote team-building and bonding. Krzyzewski didn’t leave the players with a bunch of rules, but made sure they understood the program’s standards.

"Standards are better than rules because standards you own, rules you follow, they may not be yours," he said. "With a standard you hope that it becomes yours. If a group has ownership of a certain way of doing things, they’re much better able to be successful I think."

The NFL and NFLPA need to publish a list of standards and not rules discussing penalties related to infractions.

MCFinARL
09-22-2014, 10:23 PM
In this article from ESPN Coach K discusses how he stayed in touch with Duke BBall while coaching the USA.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/100247/team-effort-kept-duke-running-smoothly-with-coach-k-abroad


There is one quote that refers to the Duke BBall team but does summarizes the issues in the NFL.

"Krzyzewski and Capel addressed the team in Durham via Skype on their last day in New York City before leaving for Spain. They spelled out expectations including the plans for "Duke Basketball Orientation," a series of exercises to promote team-building and bonding. Krzyzewski didn’t leave the players with a bunch of rules, but made sure they understood the program’s standards.

"Standards are better than rules because standards you own, rules you follow, they may not be yours," he said. "With a standard you hope that it becomes yours. If a group has ownership of a certain way of doing things, they’re much better able to be successful I think."

The NFL and NFLPA need to publish a list of standards and not rules discussing penalties related to infractions.

Interesting idea--but if the standards specify penalties, aren't they rules?

In general, I see Coach K's point--if you give people standards of conduct (or, even better, get them to help you develop standards) while also giving them responsibility to decide how those standards should be observed in a specific situation, they do have more ownership. But in situations where the consequences are significant--in the case of athletics, suspensions from games, say, docking of pay, or in an extreme situation loss of job/dismissal from team, people may need the clarity of rules for policies to be fair.

MarkD83
09-23-2014, 01:28 AM
Interesting idea--but if the standards specify penalties, aren't they rules?

In general, I see Coach K's point--if you give people standards of conduct (or, even better, get them to help you develop standards) while also giving them responsibility to decide how those standards should be observed in a specific situation, they do have more ownership. But in situations where the consequences are significant--in the case of athletics, suspensions from games, say, docking of pay, or in an extreme situation loss of job/dismissal from team, people may need the clarity of rules for policies to be fair.

The quote by Coach K did not link penalties to standards, instead what I was interested in is the "taking ownership". Let's say, for instance, that Ray Rice had announced that he was stepping away from from football for 2014 to deal with anger management issues. There would always be a group of people that would say this is too short a leave and others too long. The difference is he would have taken ownership. As it is now it appears as if he has no idea that he did anything wrong and is only trying to get back to playing as fast as he can.

sagegrouse
09-23-2014, 07:38 AM
The quote by Coach K did not link penalties to standards, instead what I was interested in is the "taking ownership". Let's say, for instance, that Ray Rice had announced that he was stepping away from from football for 2014 to deal with anger management issues. There would always be a group of people that would say this is too short a leave and others too long. The difference is he would have taken ownership. As it is now it appears as if he has no idea that he did anything wrong and is only trying to get back to playing as fast as he can.

It's dealt with elsewhere on this Board, but the ESPN expose on l'affaire de Ray Rice is that, horribly ashamed, he immediately went to his agent, his coach and his GM and told them exactly what happened. Then the Ravens engineered a plan to gain him minimum suspension, involving an intervention approved by the courts, and there may have been some collusion with NFL officials. I know, I know, the video doesn't make him look remorseful a bit (dragging his GF out of the elevator), but he may have been scared to death. Ravens owner Bisciotti claims the story was sourced primarily from the Rice camp.

Reilly
09-23-2014, 07:53 AM
... Then the Ravens engineered a plan to gain him minimum suspension, involving an intervention approved by the courts, and there may have been some collusion with NFL officials. ... Ravens owner Bisciotti claims the story was sourced primarily from the Rice camp.

Re: the original post -- yes, good idea to let folks have decision-making authority in creating the work environment/standards.

Re: the bolded part, Sage -- I wish you would have again said something to the effect of "espn's reporting claims" at the beginning of the bolded sentence. Did the Ravens make mistakes? Yes, per their accounting. Did they engineer plans, meddle in the court process, and collude with NFL officials? Not at all, per their accounting. The way the text messages were reported by espn is pretty damning -- to espn. Bisciotti for years now has come across as a straight-shooter and a guy of integrity. I believe him, and Dick Cass. Side note: John Feinstein's book "Next Man Up" gives a heart-wrenching portrait of Bisciotti (who lost his dad young).

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Message-To-Fans-Regarding-ESPN-Story/b2ed215d-3999-4715-b947-21b460930bc7

hudlow
09-23-2014, 08:12 AM
In Coach K's book, "Leading With The Heart" he explained that the the standards concept is basically that a member of the team doesn't do anything personally that will hurt the team.

As far as rules go, he said rules don't work in all situations, so they don't have set rules. I believe he gave an example of a player being late for a meeting. There are times when someone could have a perfectly good reason for being late and should not be punished because of a rules infraction.

So the team does have ownership and is expected to act responsibly and the burden is on them to make the right choices for the team.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
09-23-2014, 08:20 AM
I would wager that it is easier to vet, select, and train twelve kids than 1,500.

MCFinARL
09-23-2014, 08:45 AM
The quote by Coach K did not link penalties to standards, instead what I was interested in is the "taking ownership". Let's say, for instance, that Ray Rice had announced that he was stepping away from from football for 2014 to deal with anger management issues. There would always be a group of people that would say this is too short a leave and others too long. The difference is he would have taken ownership. As it is now it appears as if he has no idea that he did anything wrong and is only trying to get back to playing as fast as he can.

I took the point about penalties from your own comment,
The NFL and NFLPA need to publish a list of standards and not rules discussing penalties related to infractions., which I now see I misread--I thought "discussing penalties related to infractions" related to both standards and rules, but I see now you meant it only to relate to rules. So I withdraw that part of my comment.

I still wonder, though, whether every possible issue in the NFL can be dealt with via standards rather than rules, if there will in fact be consequences--whether you call them penalties or not--for some violations of those standards (see Mountain_Devil's quoted comment below).


I would wager that it is easier to vet, select, and train twelve kids than 1,500.

Amen to this.

sagegrouse
09-23-2014, 09:43 AM
Re: the original post -- yes, good idea to let folks have decision-making authority in creating the work environment/standards.

Re: the bolded part, Sage -- I wish you would have again said something to the effect of "espn's reporting claims" at the beginning of the bolded sentence. Did the Ravens make mistakes? Yes, per their accounting. Did they engineer plans, meddle in the court process, and collude with NFL officials? Not at all, per their accounting. The way the text messages were reported by espn is pretty damning -- to espn. Bisciotti for years now has come across as a straight-shooter and a guy of integrity. I believe him, and Dick Cass. Side note: John Feinstein's book "Next Man Up" gives a heart-wrenching portrait of Bisciotti (who lost his dad young).

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Message-To-Fans-Regarding-ESPN-Story/b2ed215d-3999-4715-b947-21b460930bc7

Sure. There are two sides to the story, but surely everyone understands that a part of the approach to the "Rice incident," regardless of the more controversial parts of the story, was to enable him to play with minimum or no suspension. This approach was supported by and beneficial to both Rice and the Ravens.