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View Full Version : Hazing Incident Injures unc FB player, Investigation Opened



bbosbbos
08-26-2014, 07:14 PM
Just read a report from ESPN titled "North Carolina investigating alleged hazing incident with football team". I think UNC should fire all of their administers. How can US News rank such a school top 30?

MarkD83
08-26-2014, 07:16 PM
Did they force someone to go to class?

plimnko
08-26-2014, 07:20 PM
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-football-investigating-off-field-incident/13927282/

PDDuke85
08-26-2014, 07:31 PM
Hopefully the kid will be ok. As a walk on receiver, his GPA average is more important to their "program" than anything he brings to their field. With time, it will be determined his research is flawed and he will be gone. Meanwhile, the perpetrators will be forced to miss the opening kick off VS Liberty.

weezie
08-26-2014, 09:28 PM
Whoa Nelly. It's trending quickly. If true their season should be totally suspended. Severe concussion mass assault. Sickening.

Duvall
08-26-2014, 09:44 PM
Whoa Nelly. It's trending quickly. If true their season should be totally suspended. Severe concussion mass assault. Sickening.

That would be shocking. I can't believe a UNC football physician actually diagnosed a concussion.

ncexnyc
08-26-2014, 09:44 PM
Whoa Nelly. It's trending quickly. If true their season should be totally suspended. Severe concussion mass assault. Sickening.
You do realize this is UNC we are talking about here? They'll open an investigation about this and then they'll have an investigation of the investigation, at which point in time the season will be over and then they will tell us that the guilty parties have moved on.;)

dukelifer
08-26-2014, 09:45 PM
Whoa Nelly. It's trending quickly. If true their season should be totally suspended. Severe concussion mass assault. Sickening.

Local kid to boot. Waiting for all the info before passing judgement here.

weezie
08-26-2014, 10:25 PM
Local kid to boot. Waiting for all the info before passing judgement here.

Well of course but isn't it something amazing that this took place nearly a month ago? Unless of course the kid just slipped in the locker room.
Not a peep peep on "inside the empty heads" holeina.

devildeac
08-26-2014, 10:47 PM
Hopefully the kid will be ok. As a walk on receiver, his GPA average is more important to their "program" than anything he brings to their field. With time, it will be determined his research is flawed and he will be gone. Meanwhile, the perpetrators will be forced to miss the opening kick off VS Liberty.

I thought their penalty might be missing the coin toss:rolleyes:.

Bob Green
08-27-2014, 06:07 PM
Update:


ACC Sports ‏@ACCSports · 4m
#UNC has suspended starting cornerbacks Brian Walker and Desmond Lawrence along with backup DBs MJ Stewart, Donnie Miles for Liberty game

CameronBornAndBred
08-27-2014, 06:17 PM
Update:
Wow! That is harsh! Liberty might stay within 53 now.

ncexnyc
08-27-2014, 06:30 PM
I wonder how dumb this guy feels now?

http://www.tarheelblog.com/2014/8/27/6074095/questions-abound-regarding-the-alleged-incident-at-training-camp

Of course this isn't anything new from UNC. It's all the fault of the media, or so the UNC mouthpieces claim. Not one shred of truth to this story.

It will be interesting to see if this goes any further. I would guess the sharks will smell blood and attack UNC hard and heavy, as this is to good a story to pass on.

Kimist
08-27-2014, 08:51 PM
...and some details of the related events.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/unc-suspends-four-players-after-report-of-off-field-altercation/13930455/

k

BD80
08-27-2014, 09:55 PM
Update:

ACC Sports ‏@ACCSports · 4m
#UNC has suspended starting cornerbacks Brian Walker and Desmond Lawrence along with backup DBs MJ Stewart, Donnie Miles for Liberty game

And none of them get to pick the team dinner for the next 2 weeks!

BD80
08-27-2014, 10:08 PM
I wonder how dumb this guy feels now?

http://www.tarheelblog.com/2014/8/27/6074095/questions-abound-regarding-the-alleged-incident-at-training-camp

Of course this isn't anything new from UNC. It's all the fault of the media, or so the UNC mouthpieces claim. Not one shred of truth to this story.

It will be interesting to see if this goes any further. I would guess the sharks will smell blood and attack UNC hard and heavy, as this is to good a story to pass on.

Interesting juxtaposition of articles in that link. After the homer piece bemoaning the fact that unc no longer gets the benefit of the doubt (while admitting that the media has uncovered "some truth about misdeeds in Chapel Hill"), there is reference to an article "Notre Dame won't compromise values for wins."

To have integrity, one must act with integrity.

Pretending just ain't enough.

tar heels just don't get it

BigWayne
08-28-2014, 05:38 PM
Victim's brother is stirring the pot. https://twitter.com/cbboyer

weezie
08-28-2014, 06:23 PM
Victim's brother is stirring the pot.

I think an actual countdown of less than 12 hrs before these comments disappear will now commence.

Boy, do I hope the family has an excellent attorney.

ncexnyc
08-28-2014, 07:27 PM
I think an actual countdown of less than 12 hrs before these comments disappear will now commence.

Boy, do I hope the family has an excellent attorney.

Doesn't really matter as the genie is already out of the bottle. It should be an interesting weekend and if this is actually the brother, which it appears it is, well let's just say I've got a very large bucket of popcorn ready to enjoy the show.

Newton_14
08-28-2014, 09:03 PM
Victim's brother is stirring the pot. https://twitter.com/cbboyer

Thanks Big Wayne. Wow. You have to wonder if the "leaders" over there have taken anything at all seriously over the last four years and counting. You would think at some point every coach employed over there is using a combination of begging these kids to walk the line daily and taking a hard line/zero tolerance policy for the mildest of transgressions. But no. Obviously not. The kids and leaders continue to do what they want when they want. That twitter read was unbelieveable. According to the brother, multiple players (way beyond 4 guys) beat the crap out of this kid in his room after pinning him down. Beat him to the point of knockout. That's not hazing. That's felony assault. Fedora knew the next day and did nada, nuttin, zippo until the day after the Pat Forde article.

arnie
08-28-2014, 09:13 PM
Thanks Big Wayne. Wow. You have to wonder if the "leaders" over there have taken anything at all seriously over the last four years and counting. You would think at some point every coach employed over there is using a combination of begging these kids to walk the line daily and taking a hard line/zero tolerance policy for the mildest of transgressions. But no. Obviously not. The kids and leaders continue to do what they want when they want. That twitter read was unbelieveable. According to the brother, multiple players (way beyond 4 guys) beat the crap out of this kid in his room after pinning him down. Beat him to the point of knockout. That's not hazing. That's felony assault. Fedora knew the next day and did nada, nuttin, zippo until the day after the Pat Forde article.

Fedora is Carolina's dream coach - knows how to recruit, has no ethical standards, won't let academics get in the way of football. He'll go down screaming if Bubba tries to extend the suspensions.

UrinalCake
08-28-2014, 11:24 PM
Victim's brother is stirring the pot. https://twitter.com/cbboyer

How long until UNC starts attacking the whistleblower? I hope the brother is ready to have his character slammed by UNC's PR department.

The most surprising part of the story to me is that the UNC defenders could actually hit someone hard enough to give him a concussion.

ncexnyc
08-28-2014, 11:30 PM
How long until UNC starts attacking the whistleblower? I hope the brother is ready to have his character slammed by UNC's PR department.

The most surprising part of the story to me is that the UNC defenders could actually hit someone hard enough to give him a concussion.

Are you refering to page 56 of the UNC scandel playbook? The smear has already been tried. Earlier today when the brother was posting someone claimed Jackson had a history of violence and referenced an incident from last year. They are also claiming the kid thought he was Rudy and was showboating during practice.

Reilly
08-28-2014, 11:34 PM
... The most surprising part of the story to me is that the UNC defenders could actually hit someone hard enough to give him a concussion.

I remember when off-field assaults involving Heels ended up with the Carolina players naked and cowering and the women in mugshots.

sagegrouse
08-28-2014, 11:38 PM
How long until UNC starts attacking the whistleblower? I hope the brother is ready to have his character slammed by UNC's PR department.

The most surprising part of the story to me is that the UNC defenders could actually hit someone hard enough to give him a concussion.

I am sure UNC officials have already googled his tweets in an effort to prove they were plagiarized.

blueduke59
08-29-2014, 08:24 AM
How long until UNC starts attacking the whistleblower? I hope the brother is ready to have his character slammed by UNC's PR department.

The most surprising part of the story to me is that the UNC defenders could actually hit someone hard enough to give him a concussion.

LOL. Not only do they attack the guy but it also happens to be someone who helps their GPA

CameronBornAndBred
08-29-2014, 09:18 AM
Are you refering to page 56 of the UNC scandel playbook?
I'm assuming you copy and pasted that, and that is exactly how they printed the title up.

JasonEvans
08-29-2014, 09:28 AM
They are also claiming the kid thought he was Rudy and was showboating during practice.

And I think any reasonable person would agree that the proper reaction to someone showboating is to gather a bunch of your large friends and beat the crap out of them so they sustain serious injuries. I mean, showboating is always punishable by concussion, right?

The hysterical part in all this is that some folks are trying to justify a gang beatdown... it does not matter what Jackson Boyer may have done in practice, beating him so bad that you send him to the hospital is not acceptable.

-Jason "so, Carolina will lose (http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/unc-football-suspends-4-players-for-season-opener-for-hazing-aka-just-beating-the-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.-out-of-a-freshman-in-the-team-hotel/) both starting cornerbacks and a backup CB for the opener with Liberty... if only they were playing someone decent these suspensions might matter" Evans

sagegrouse
08-29-2014, 09:31 AM
-Jason "so, Carolina will lose (http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/unc-football-suspends-4-players-for-season-opener-for-hazing-aka-just-beating-the-I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.-out-of-a-freshman-in-the-team-hotel/) both starting cornerbacks and a backup CB for the opener with Liberty... if only they were playing someone decent these suspensions might matter" Evans

If they were playing someone decent, the suspensions would not be levied.

weezie
08-29-2014, 10:53 AM
For those of you in the area, what's the temperature of the locals? Are the hole fans just brushing off the "highjinks" as youthful silliness or has the victim been vilified?
Is anybody of any credible stature saying anything about how serious the allegations are?

Or am I just whistling in the wind.....

oldnavy
08-29-2014, 11:22 AM
For those of you in the area, what's the temperature of the locals? Are the hole fans just brushing off the "highjinks" as youthful silliness or has the victim been vilified?
Is anybody of any credible stature saying anything about how serious the allegations are?

Or am I just whistling in the wind.....

UNC's reaction to ANY issue reminds me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl8ajhu_e5Y

arnie
08-29-2014, 12:23 PM
UNC's reaction to ANY issue reminds me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl8ajhu_e5Y

I'm hearing the walk-on had Rudy tendencies; therefore any punishment was observed. Bet the walk- on finds another school soon. Even a local ex-coach alluded to that this morning.

oldnavy
08-29-2014, 12:29 PM
I'm hearing the walk-on had Rudy tendencies; therefore any punishment was observed. Bet the walk- on finds another school soon. Even a local ex-coach alluded to that this morning.

Just curious... would this be considered a "hate" crime???

Sounds like assault at best....

moonpie23
08-29-2014, 12:33 PM
doesn't matter what comes out about UNC "investigations" (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152949565322586&set=vb.709227585&type=2&theater)



nothing will happen to them as a result...

arnie
08-29-2014, 12:35 PM
Just curious... would this be considered a "hate" crime???

Sounds like assault at best....

My previous post should have said " punishment deserved". ( my i-phone thinks its smarter than me). Anyway, it should be assault but unless the kid goes to the DA, doubt we'll hear another word about this until the Rudy moves on.

oldnavy
08-29-2014, 12:48 PM
My previous post should have said " punishment deserved". ( my i-phone thinks its smarter than me). Anyway, it should be assault but unless the kid goes to the DA, doubt we'll hear another word about this until the Rudy moves on.

For the prosecuting attorneys out there... does the victim in an assault case have to bring the case forward, or can the DA go with the hospital reports, etc...

I understand that we are talking about CH and the likelihood of anything remotely resembling an aggressive pursuit of the truth is just not going to happen... but does the DA need the victim to press charges??

Could this be prosecuted as a hate crime given the racial makeup of the victim and the assailants?

We all know that UNC will do nothing as evident by their past and how in this case the story didn't come out until the Yahoo article forced the issue...

I am sure the 4 players will learn from their mistakes and the shame and humiliation of missing that marquee matchup with Liberty. Maybe Fedora will run them after practice too?

Henderson
08-29-2014, 01:43 PM
For the prosecuting attorneys out there... does the victim in an assault case have to bring the case forward, or can the DA go with the hospital reports, etc...

I understand that we are talking about CH and the likelihood of anything remotely resembling an aggressive pursuit of the truth is just not going to happen... but does the DA need the victim to press charges??

Could this be prosecuted as a hate crime given the racial makeup of the victim and the assailants?

We all know that UNC will do nothing as evident by their past and how in this case the story didn't come out until the Yahoo article forced the issue...

I am sure the 4 players will learn from their mistakes and the shame and humiliation of missing that marquee matchup with Liberty. Maybe Fedora will run them after practice too?

Unless the victim cooperates and is willing to testify, a DA won't prosecute except under very unusual circumstances. Technically, the crime can be proved without him/her, but DAs don't generally put themselves out on a limb. They know juries think, "If this happened, why isn't the so-called "victim" here?" An uncooperative victim can be subpoenaed, but the DA can't be sure what the testimony will be. Could be embarrassing. Maybe even the defense calls the "victim" who says nothing happened. Not good for an elected DA going after athletes on the local team.

The DA can't go forward with a hate crime charge unless there is evidence that race was a factor. The mere fact that the victim and perp(s) were of different races isn't sufficient.

A civil suit here would be fun, because the DA couldn't control the case and the standard of proof is lower (preponderance of the evidence vs. beyond a reasonable doubt). But a 20 year old kid suing his team mates for roughing him up would be unusual. He'd be blackballed and ostracized. Don't count a suit against UNC players ever happening from a Chapel Hill kid.

UNC needs some serious PR help. Any good PR advisor would tell them to get on top of a situation like this, scramble to occupy the high ground, be transparent, be tough on the perps, and squish the thing early by doing so. Put distance between the organization and the bad apples. The incompetence of the UNC administration on basics like those is an ongoing puzzlement.

oldnavy
08-29-2014, 02:04 PM
Unless the victim cooperates and is willing to testify, a DA won't prosecute except under very unusual circumstances. Technically, the crime can be proved without him/her, but DAs don't generally put themselves out on a limb. They know juries think, "If this happened, why isn't the so-called "victim" here?" An uncooperative victim can be subpoenaed, but the DA can't be sure what the testimony will be. Could be embarrassing. Maybe even the defense calls the "victim" who says nothing happened. Not good for an elected DA going after athletes on the local team.

The DA can't go forward with a hate crime charge unless there is evidence that race was a factor. The mere fact that the victim and perp(s) were of different races isn't sufficient.

A civil suit here would be fun, because the DA couldn't control the case and the standard of proof is lower (preponderance of the evidence vs. beyond a reasonable doubt). But a 20 year old kid suing his team mates for roughing him up would be unusual. He'd be blackballed and ostracized. Don't count a suit against UNC players ever happening from a Chapel Hill kid.

UNC needs some serious PR help. Any good PR advisor would tell them to get on top of a situation like this, scramble to occupy the high ground, be transparent, be tough on the perps, and squish the thing early by doing so. Put distance between the organization and the bad apples. The incompetence of the UNC administration on basics like those is an ongoing puzzlement.

Good info... thanks.

I will not be surprised if this is just swept under the rug as well. The problem UNC has outside of the "family" is that no matter what the facts of the case are, they have lost the benefit of the doubt and are going to be presumed to be guilty of a cover up even if this turns out to be a lesser deal than it appears to be.

As far as race goes, it probably has little to nothing to do with this case. My guess is that it was a case of offensive player vs. defensive player(s) going at each other that took a turn for the worst and got out of hand...

It is just mind boggling however that UNC can't seem to get anything right... you'd think they'd learn that it pays to be proactive.....

drip, drip, drip....

Henderson
08-29-2014, 02:16 PM
One mistake Carolina is making here is treating this as an isolated incident, devoid of context. It may not be connected to the various issues the school has faced and continues to face. But to the rest of the world, this looks like a continuation of previous issues. They've allowed the story line to be, "ongoing problems within UNC athletics" and have no administrator looking at the big picture and taking control to say, "We're not putting up with this kind of thing, because it all besmirches the university at a time we don't need it."

Thurber Whyte
08-29-2014, 02:45 PM
For the prosecuting attorneys out there... does the victim in an assault case have to bring the case forward, or can the DA go with the hospital reports, etc...

I understand that we are talking about CH and the likelihood of anything remotely resembling an aggressive pursuit of the truth is just not going to happen... but does the DA need the victim to press charges??

Could this be prosecuted as a hate crime given the racial makeup of the victim and the assailants?

We all know that UNC will do nothing as evident by their past and how in this case the story didn't come out until the Yahoo article forced the issue...

I am sure the 4 players will learn from their mistakes and the shame and humiliation of missing that marquee matchup with Liberty. Maybe Fedora will run them after practice too?

What Henderson said. Plus:

Crimes are wrongs against the sovereign while torts are wrongs committed against private citizens. The State is the complaining party in a criminal action and not the victim.

That said, police and prosecutors typically defer to the wishes of the victim in deciding whether to prosecute less serious offenses and, in any event, it is often difficult to go forward with a case if the victim does not cooperate.

I am not familiar with North Carolina’s laws on hate crimes, but they ordinarily require that antipathy based on race or some other enumerated characteristic be a motivating factor for the crime rather than merely the fact the victim is of a different race or status. Because proving motive is often difficult, hate crimes are rarely charged even when there is some evidence of such a motive.

I once had a case where the defendant robbed the victim at a car wash. While in jail, the defendant wrote the victim a long letter starting off, “Hi, my name is Dave. I am the guy who robbed you. How are you doing?” and then going on to talk about how sorry he was that he robbed him, how tough it was to be locked up away from his family, especially at Christmas and “Could you see your way to dropping the charges?” Poor Dave. Not only did he not know that victims lacked the power to drop charges. He also did not know about the party admission exception to the hearsay rule. The victim sent the letter straight to the police and it became Exhibit A against Dave at his subsequent trial, making his conviction a slam dunk.

camion
08-29-2014, 02:49 PM
Getting on top of a problem would require admitting to a problem. UNC has spent millions to avoid doing that.

Deny, Delay, Dissemble. That's the ticket.

BD80
08-29-2014, 03:53 PM
... The DA can't go forward with a hate crime charge unless there is evidence that race was a factor. The mere fact that the victim and perp(s) were of different races isn't sufficient. ...

Would it be sufficient if 15 or so white guys beat a black guy into unconsciousness? Serious question. Seems to me it should be. But I also believe the converse should be sufficient. Guess I am swayed by a mob attacking an individual. Should be an inference of a hate crime.

arnie
08-29-2014, 06:09 PM
Would it be sufficient if 15 or so white guys beat a black guy into unconsciousness? Serious question. Seems to me it should be. But I also believe the converse should be sufficient. Guess I am swayed by a mob attacking an individual. Should be an inference of a hate crime.

Local news now reporting that Inside Carolina (reputable source) has documentation that this event was a Gatorade shower - kids just playing around. The ABC affiliate ended their story with that info as fact.

DukieInKansas
08-29-2014, 06:15 PM
Local news now reporting that Inside Carolina (reputable source) has documentation that this event was a Gatorade shower - kids just playing around. The ABC affiliate ended their story with that info as fact.

Did they shower him with the Gatorade still in cans and bottles - perhaps still in the cases? If he ended up in the hospital, that is the only type of Gatorade shower I can think of that might cause enough injuries to go to the hospital.

arnie
08-29-2014, 06:45 PM
Did they shower him with the Gatorade still in cans and bottles - perhaps still in the cases? If he ended up in the hospital, that is the only type of Gatorade shower I can think of that might cause enough injuries to go to the hospital.

I think maybe Rudy resisted a bit., so obviously it's the victim's fault.

DukieInKansas
08-29-2014, 06:49 PM
Local news now reporting that Inside Carolina (reputable source) has documentation that this event was a Gatorade shower - kids just playing around. The ABC affiliate ended their story with that info as fact.


Did they shower him with the Gatorade still in cans and bottles - perhaps still in the cases? If he ended up in the hospital, that is the only type of Gatorade shower I can think of that might cause enough injuries to go to the hospital.

OK - I went to read the story on Inside Carolina. Apparently, they entered his room to give him the Gatorade shower - never mind the damage a liquid Gatorade shower might cause to a hotel room. Boyer "reacted strongly to the attempt" causing the altercation and his eye injury and possible concussion. Boyer was at practice the next day. The 4 DBs and Boyer's roommate provided their accounts of the incident. Boyer declined to testify and hasn't filed a complaint with the University. It went past Fedora because parents became involved. Reactions on their forum range from sillier than they thought, mountain out of a molehill, and parents should be suspended.

Excuse me while I go take a shower now.

BigWayne
08-29-2014, 07:08 PM
OK - I went to read the story on Inside Carolina. Apparently, they entered his room to give him the Gatorade shower - never mind the damage a liquid Gatorade shower might cause to a hotel room. Boyer "reacted strongly to the attempt" causing the altercation and his eye injury and possible concussion. Boyer was at practice the next day. The 4 DBs and Boyer's roommate provided their accounts of the incident. Boyer declined to testify and hasn't filed a complaint with the University. It went past Fedora because parents became involved. Reactions on their forum range from sillier than they thought, mountain out of a molehill, and parents should be suspended.

Excuse me while I go take a shower now.

When the most "official" looking university response seems to be released through a fan blog, my guess is that there is still a lot more to this story.

lotusland
08-29-2014, 07:21 PM
Would it be sufficient if 15 or so white guys beat a black guy into unconsciousness? Serious question. Seems to me it should be. But I also believe the converse should be sufficient. Guess I am swayed by a mob attacking an individual. Should be an inference of a hate crime.

I really hate UNC. Fortunately the constitution doesn't restrict my emotions so I can marinate in my pure unbridled contempt if I choose to. If I burned down the Dean Dome shouldn't we assume their was some hate involved and should it be any less of a crime if I did it with love in my heart?

Kimist
08-29-2014, 07:44 PM
Local news now reporting that Inside Carolina (reputable source) has documentation that this event was a Gatorade shower - kids just playing around. The ABC affiliate ended their story with that info as fact.

I was going to post this exact information, but you beat me to it.

The Durham TV station loses a lot of credibility on that source, but they may just be catering to their general audience. Not unlike they often/frequently lead with "it's raining in so and so" and support that with obviously fake "radar scans" which resemble whirling dervishes that for some unknown reason do not refresh as they "scan" a storm system. For further entertainment, you should see how their reporting ratchets upward whenever there is a hurricane anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. :D

k

BD80
08-29-2014, 07:55 PM
Local news now reporting that Inside Carolina (reputable source) has documentation that this event was a Gatorade shower - kids just playing around. The ABC affiliate ended their story with that info as fact.

An ice bucket challenge fail. Will probably be on YouTube soon. Yuk yuk.

roywhite
08-29-2014, 08:28 PM
I really hate UNC. Fortunately the constitution doesn't restrict my emotions so I can marinate in my pure unbridled contempt if I choose to. If I burned down the Dean Dome shouldn't we assume their was some hate involved and should it be any less of a crime if I did it with love in my heart?

Is it just me, or does the continuing mess in Chapel Hill and their frantic efforts to cover up their sins, diminish the nature of our rivalry?

I've lost a great deal of respect for the very way they go about things; the flagship University of the state used to be represented by leaders like Bill Friday and Dean Smith; now it just seems like a low-life group of cheaters, schemers, and unprincipled operators. Do they even deserve the status of being our top rival?

ncexnyc
08-29-2014, 10:02 PM
Would it be sufficient if 15 or so white guys beat a black guy into unconsciousness? Serious question. Seems to me it should be. But I also believe the converse should be sufficient. Guess I am swayed by a mob attacking an individual. Should be an inference of a hate crime.

Funny how certain people on this board were in such an outrage over Donald Sterling's comments, but when actual physical violence takes place they are nowhere to be seen. Some how I get the feeling if the roles had been reversed and Jackson and several of his white buddies had beat the daylights out of some poor black kid this would be a major incident and they'd be riding on their moral high horse. I bet we'd even be seeing Reverend William Barber leading a march on UNC as we speak to right the horrible injustice.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-29-2014, 10:23 PM
Is it just me, or does the continuing mess in Chapel Hill and their frantic efforts to cover up their sins, diminish the nature of our rivalry?

I've lost a great deal of respect for the very way they go about things; the flagship University of the state used to be represented by leaders like Bill Friday and Dean Smith; now it just seems like a low-life group of cheaters, schemers, and unprincipled operators. Do they even deserve the status of being our top rival?
Wholeheartedly agree. My hatred of UNC used to come with a dose of respect. No longer. I know it's sacrilegious but I could honestly care less about them and the rivalry. They are shameful even to be associated with. Sad really.

CameronBlue
08-29-2014, 11:04 PM
Funny how certain people on this board were in such an outrage over Donald Sterling's comments, but when actual physical violence takes place they are nowhere to be seen. Some how I get the feeling if the roles had been reversed and Jackson and several of his white buddies had beat the daylights out of some poor black kid this would be a major incident and they'd be riding on their moral high horse. I bet we'd even be seeing Reverend William Barber leading a march on UNC as we speak to right the horrible injustice.

Well since you drew the comparison let me point out the obvious Stern's comments were tape recorded and so far we've only heard second-hand reports and no corroborated description of what happened (unless I'm mistaken). Facts tend to provoke a bit more reaction than hearsay with most folks I imagine...well hopefully here anyway. I'd go further with the discussion but I'd venture into verbotten PPB territory...so I must muster the will to stand mute and self-circumcised.

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-30-2014, 07:21 AM
One weird thing that occurred to me... If he did suffer a concussion and the staff new about the incident, what in the world were they doing allowing him to participate in practice the following day?

arnie
08-30-2014, 07:41 AM
One weird thing that occurred to me... If he did suffer a concussion and the staff new about the incident, what in the world were they doing allowing him to participate in practice the following day?

He's an expendable walk-on. His health matters not- The Carolina Way.

sagegrouse
08-30-2014, 08:35 AM
...so I must muster the will to stand mute and self-circumcised.

Ouch!

oldnavy
08-30-2014, 08:51 AM
One weird thing that occurred to me... If he did suffer a concussion and the staff new about the incident, what in the world were they doing allowing him to participate in practice the following day?

They just could of held him out of contact drills....

This would seem to be a non-story except.... it's UNC and they do not deserve any benefit of doubt!

Duvall
08-30-2014, 11:37 AM
He's an expendable walk-on. His health matters not- The Carolina Way.

Let us be fair - UNC has proven itself willing to risk the health of key players and walk-ons alike. (http://obsfifty.blogspot.com/2012/09/unc-qb-bryn-renner-hard-hit-did-not.html)

Olympic Fan
08-30-2014, 11:44 AM
Let us be fair - UNC has proven itself willing to risk the health of key players and walk-ons alike. (http://obsfifty.blogspot.com/2012/09/unc-qb-bryn-renner-hard-hit-did-not.html)

And let us never forget the Sacrificial Five -- the walk-ons that Roy abandoned to the FSU mob so he could protect his staff and his starters in Tallahassee.

Dukeface88
08-31-2014, 12:09 AM
Would it be sufficient if 15 or so white guys beat a black guy into unconsciousness? Serious question. Seems to me it should be. But I also believe the converse should be sufficient. Guess I am swayed by a mob attacking an individual. Should be an inference of a hate crime.


Funny how certain people on this board were in such an outrage over Donald Sterling's comments, but when actual physical violence takes place they are nowhere to be seen. Some how I get the feeling if the roles had been reversed and Jackson and several of his white buddies had beat the daylights out of some poor black kid this would be a major incident and they'd be riding on their moral high horse. I bet we'd even be seeing Reverend William Barber leading a march on UNC as we speak to right the horrible injustice.

Has there been any indication that the all of the 11ish unsuspended players were black? Because you two seem to be assuming they were, but I haven't seen anything mentioning it in this thread. It seems to me that really ought to be established before a racial motivation is suggested, and not simply taken for granted.

ncexnyc
08-31-2014, 08:14 AM
Has there been any indication that the all of the 11ish unsuspended players were black? Because you two seem to be assuming they were, but I haven't seen anything mentioning it in this thread. It seems to me that really ought to be established before a racial motivation is suggested, and not simply taken for granted.
My comment is directed at the four on one, nothing more.

Reilly
08-31-2014, 08:30 AM
And let us never forget the Sacrificial Five -- the walk-ons that Roy abandoned to the FSU mob so he could protect his staff and his starters in Tallahassee.

Blue Steel can handle anything ...

Henderson
08-31-2014, 11:04 AM
Would it be sufficient if 15 or so white guys beat a black guy into unconsciousness? Serious question. Seems to me it should be. But I also believe the converse should be sufficient. Guess I am swayed by a mob attacking an individual. Should be an inference of a hate crime.

A presumption of guilt regarding a motivation? So the perps should have the burden of proving their non-racial motivations? With due respect, I'm not down with the idea. It's not really how we handle criminal law in our system.


Funny how certain people on this board were in such an outrage over Donald Sterling's comments, but when actual physical violence takes place they are nowhere to be seen. Some how I get the feeling if the roles had been reversed and Jackson and several of his white buddies had beat the daylights out of some poor black kid this would be a major incident and they'd be riding on their moral high horse. I bet we'd even be seeing Reverend William Barber leading a march on UNC as we speak to right the horrible injustice.

1. Sterling's racist comments were recorded and uncontrovertibly racist. On the other hand, here I haven't seen any suggestion of a racial motivation.

2. There seems to be a disdain in ncexnyc's comment for a possible protest if the player had been black and the perps white. If such a protest regarding white-on-black violence would be unwarranted without evidence of racist motivation, it's not clear to me how jumping to an assumption of racism here would be appropriate.

Ima Facultiwyfe
08-31-2014, 11:35 AM
Wholeheartedly agree. My hatred of UNC used to come with a dose of respect. No longer. I know it's sacrilegious but I could honestly care less about them and the rivalry. They are shameful even to be associated with. Sad really.

Don't you mean that you could NOT care any less about them?
Love, Ima

ncexnyc
08-31-2014, 11:36 AM
A presumption of guilt regarding a motivation? So the perps should have the burden of proving their non-racial motivations? With due respect, I'm not down with the idea. It's not really how we handle criminal law in our system.



1. Sterling's racist comments were recorded and uncontrovertibly racist. On the other hand, here I haven't seen any suggestion of a racial motivation.

2. There seems to be a disdain in ncexnyc's comment for a possible protest if the player had been black and the perps white. If such a protest regarding white-on-black violence would be unwarranted without evidence of racist motivation, it's not clear to me how jumping to an assumption of racism here would be appropriate.

Concerning Sterling's remarks. There where some on this board who didn't care if it was proven whether the tape was valid or not. The fact that it was attributed to him was good enough for them. There were some who didn't care how the tape was made public either, so much for their highly ethical stance.

Now as to your second point, I'm not sure what world some of you live in, but it seems to me that many on this board just aren't in touch with the real world. It doesn't matter if the attack was four whites on one black and had absolutely nothing to do with racial motivation. There would be plenty of people out there who would love to make it one.

sagegrouse
08-31-2014, 12:03 PM
Concerning Sterling's remarks. There where some on this board who didn't care if it was proven whether the tape was valid or not. The fact that it was attributed to him was good enough for them. There were some who didn't care how the tape was made public either, so much for their highly ethical stance.

Now as to your second point, I'm not sure what world some of you live in, but it seems to me that many on this board just aren't in touch with the real world. It doesn't matter if the attack was four whites on one black and had absolutely nothing to do with racial motivation. There would be plenty of people out there who would love to make it one.

Easy, there, big fella! Sterling admitted the tape was of him. And it's not a court of law -- it's a court of public opinion. Therefore, the process of the release of the tape doesn't make any difference. And your statement, "So much for their highly ethical stance," is both wrong and unfortunate.

ncexnyc
08-31-2014, 01:02 PM
Easy, there, big fella! Sterling admitted the tape was of him. And it's not a court of law -- it's a court of public opinion. Therefore, the process of the release of the tape doesn't make any difference. And your statement, "So much for their highly ethical stance," is both wrong and unfortunate.
My last comment on this will be to remind all of you how the media covered the event which took place in 2006.

BigWayne
09-09-2014, 07:50 PM
Well it turns out there actually was a police report, well sorta...

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/09/09/4137040_unc-police-report-had-misleading.html?sp=/99/100/&rh=1