Dear DBR (RE: Maryland Front Page Article)

[jay]

If you really are glad Maryland is gone, they were never really our rival and you're over them, why the constant articles like the one on the front page of DBR since yesterday?

It just smacks of "we care so little about you that we're going to keep writing about you even though you're not in our conference anymore."

Move on.

[Henderson]

If you really are glad Maryland is gone, they were never really our rival and you're over them, why the constant articles like the one on the front page of DBR since yesterday?

It just smacks of "we care so little about you that we're going to keep writing about you even though you're not in our conference anymore."

Move on.

This seems silly and snarky. Maryland left the ACC less than two months ago (having been a founding member for 61 years), and its settlement with the ACC is still fresh. Their exit from the ACC raises issues around conference realignment, the geographic nature of conferences, the need for money driving schools to switch conferences, and the whole issue of exit fees. Maybe people should have stopped talking about WWII in 1945, eh? No issues worth discussing once the Axis powers all surrendered. Sorry, but history doesn't work that way.

[CDu]

This seems silly and snarky. Maryland left the ACC less than two months ago (having been a founding member for 61 years), and its settlement with the ACC is still fresh. Their exit from the ACC raises issues around conference realignment, the geographic nature of conferences, the need for money driving schools to switch conferences, and the whole issue of exit fees. Maybe people should have stopped talking about WWII in 1945, eh? No issues worth discussing once the Axis powers all surrendered. Sorry, but history doesn't work that way.

I think the point was more to do with the "not our rival" bit. I have always thought that was stupid. For a stretch of about 5-10 years, Maryland was absolutely one of our rivals. And after that, they were a rival in the same way that State has been a rival to UNC - we wanted to beat them just so that we wouldn't have to hear them brag.

So the reference to WWII doesn't really hold water. Nobody was questioning that we cared about the Axis powers or that they were relevant. The entire point of the Maryland debate has always been that folks keep saying "we don't care about Maryland" when it obviously is true that we DO care about Maryland.

Ever since 2000 or so, Maryland has been our rival in some form or another. So for many of us, the "not our rival" stuff is just ridiculous. Now, of course, they'll finally cease being a rival of any kind, because we'll rarely if ever play them.

[Faustus]

I, for one, promise to never mention U of Maryland again. It's an immensely forgettable school.

[Henderson]

I think the point was more to do with the "not our rival" bit. I have always thought that was stupid. For a stretch of about 5-10 years, Maryland was absolutely one of our rivals.

Sorry, I strongly disagree. The rivalry was nothing more than a conference schedule. All conference teams represent a "rivalry" in that diluted sense. The idea that Maryland was special is all in twerps' heads. But their leaving the way they did opens up issues for discussion that have nothing to do with their fantasy rivalry.

So yes: One can easily say, "not our rival" and "twerps issues remain relevant for discussion" without cognitive dissonance.

[OldPhiKap]

All conference teams are conference rivals. Some go through stronger periods than others -- MD in the late '90's and early '00's; Wake in the early '90's; GT and State in the mid-'80's; UVa in the early '80's, etc. The intensity of the rivalry depends on the sport and the relative qualities of the team in which you are measuring things though. The conference rivalries I have listed are from a men's basketball perspective; a close follower of football or golf or field hockey would see it different.

UNC is a rival in every sport, in every year, in every way possible. If we played each other in tiddlywinks, I would want to grind those hypocritical pompous tarheads in a rout so historical that made grown men weep in future eons.

"Rivalry" is a big-tent word.


And as to the OP, many here have an intense dislike of Md because of the way (some of) their fans acted and the fact that they took their ball and left. That does not mean that we consider them rivals. We consider (some of) them contemptible. Those are not coterminous words.

$.02

(And the typical disclaimer -- any broad brush unfairly taints the innocent and the guilty alike. There are many knowledgeable and personable Md fans. To the good ones, I wish them well; to the rest, I wish them good riddance).

[CDu]

Sorry, I strongly disagree. The rivalry was nothing more than a conference schedule. All conference teams represent a "rivalry" in that diluted sense. The idea that Maryland was special is all in twerps' heads. But their leaving the way they did opens up issues for discussion that have nothing to do with their fantasy rivalry.

So yes: One can easily say, "not our rival" and "twerps issues remain relevant for discussion" without cognitive dissonance.

Having been at Duke during the height of the rivalry with Maryland, I am going to respectfully disagree with you.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Having been at Duke during the height of the rivalry with Maryland, I am going to respectfully disagree with you.

I agree. I was at Duke for the tail-end of that rivalry. As students, we pranced around wearing our "Not Our Rivals" t-shirts. But we all knew the truth as students - they were our rivals. No questions asked. If Duke-UNC was a 10 on the intensity scale (which would make Arsenal-Tottenham at 63 on that same scale...), Duke-Maryland would be a solid 6. No other team would be above a 3.

I don't think I hated any player as much as Nik Caner-Medley during my four years at Duke (okay, maybe NCM is tied with McCants and Deron Washington).

[wilson]

I too was at Duke at the height of the Maryland, yes, rivalry (T '04). It's important to remember that for a couple of years, Maryland was elite and unc was terrible. In 2002, the twerps won the ACC regular season (not to mention the national title) with a 15-1 conference record, while the heels went 4-12. The next year, Duke tied Maryland for 2nd in the regular season at 11-5, with unc checking in at #7 and 6-10. For at least a couple of years, the Maryland rivalry may not have surpassed unc in terms of historic or institutional importance, but in terms of conference competition, genuine competitiveness, and national relevance, Maryland absolutely eclipsed the heels. I understand the perspective that each team can have only one true rival (and to some extent, I agree with that perspective), and in that sense, Maryland was not then and never has been "our rival." That being said, there were plenty of Duke basketball neophytes on campus in 2002-03 who were definitely more excited about Maryland than about unc, and who didn't quite understand why people got so worked up about the heels when they stunk.

[rasputin]

I too was at Duke at the height of the Maryland, yes, rivalry (T '04). It's important to remember that for a couple of years, Maryland was elite and unc was terrible. In 2002, the twerps won the ACC regular season (not to mention the national title) with a 15-1 conference record, while the heels went 4-12. The next year, Duke tied Maryland for 2nd in the regular season at 11-5, with unc checking in at #7 and 6-10. For at least a couple of years, the Maryland rivalry may not have surpassed unc in terms of historic or institutional importance, but in terms of conference competition, genuine competitiveness, and national relevance, Maryland absolutely eclipsed the heels. I understand the perspective that each team can have only one true rival (and to some extent, I agree with that perspective), and in that sense, Maryland was not then and never has been "our rival." That being said, there were plenty of Duke basketball neophytes on campus in 2002-03 who were definitely more excited about Maryland than about unc, and who didn't quite understand why people got so worked up about the heels when they stunk.

I had a similar experience growing up as a fan of the Yankees. When I first became baseball-aware (1961, when I was four), the Red Sox were not a good team at all, and this continued for a number of years afterward. The team to fear in the AL then, from my perspective, was Baltimore.

[Henderson]

Having been at Duke during the height of the rivalry with Maryland, I am going to respectfully disagree with you.

With due respect, your few years of college experience is not the measurement of a rivalry. Sometimes a conference opponent is the target before us, so we badly want to beat them. That's no more a rivalry than any other meaningful conference confrontation. Those come and go and can look more important than they are when you limit your field of vision to your personal experience.

[uh_no]

I'm not really sure I care about whether maryland can be considered our rival or not. I only care that claiming it makes maryland fans turn into whiners.....so...


NOT OUR RIVALS!!!

[jay]

I think the point was more to do with the "not our rival" bit. I have always thought that was stupid. For a stretch of about 5-10 years, Maryland was absolutely one of our rivals. And after that, they were a rival in the same way that State has been a rival to UNC - we wanted to beat them just so that we wouldn't have to hear them brag.

So the reference to WWII doesn't really hold water. Nobody was questioning that we cared about the Axis powers or that they were relevant. The entire point of the Maryland debate has always been that folks keep saying "we don't care about Maryland" when it obviously is true that we DO care about Maryland.

Ever since 2000 or so, Maryland has been our rival in some form or another. So for many of us, the "not our rival" stuff is just ridiculous. Now, of course, they'll finally cease being a rival of any kind, because we'll rarely if ever play them.

What CDu said.

It just makes Duke fans seem desperate, like we're clinging onto this bitter dislike of another team that we don't even need to be worrying about anymore.

If I have a neighbor who lives across the street who is annoying and sometimes even really rude, and that neighbor moves across town, I would consider myself foolishly obsessed if I spend my Saturdays driving by his house to see what he's up to and how green his lawn isn't. It's just childish.

Like I said, time to move on from Maryland. It was an interesting chapter in Duke history. Now it's essentially over. Let's spend time wringing our hands over the likes of Syracuse and Louisville.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oh good, another one of these threads where we are either elitist jerks for denying the Maryland has any value whatsoever, or we are completely overobssessed with a team that has no relevance to our team or the ACC.

I look forward to a time when one can comment in passing on the Twerps without an accusation of being fixated on an ex-girlfriend.

[Bostondevil]

When Maryland won the championship in 2002, I was rooting for them because . . . ACC. When Len Bias died, I was devastated because I had watched him play, and play spectacularly, in Cameron. When Lefty Driesel was forced out of Maryland after Len Bias died, I found I missed him. I thought he was a great broadcaster, btw, and thoroughly enjoyed it when he announced Duke games. Heck, I kinda miss Gary.

I would never root for UNC. I don't miss Dean Smith. I don't miss that guy that came after Dean, Guthridge. OK, I kinda miss Doherty. I won't miss Roy Williams.

That said, the way those whiners at Maryland have conducted themselves and the way they pulled out of the ACC? Yeah, I'm pissed at them. And the next time they play for a national championship (hahahahahaha yeah, right), I will most likely be rooting for the other guys, because, ACC.

Obsessed with Maryland? Please. I went to Duke at the same time as Johnny Dawkins and Len Bias. Duke-Maryland games, I never thought of it as a great rivalry, but those two, man they went at it on the other's home courts. Sometimes it seemed to me that Johnny saved his best games for Cole Field House and Bias saved his for Cameron. It wasn't a rivalry so much as it was a heckuva lot of fun to watch. Stupid Twerps ruined that tradition.

Another thing about being someone's rival, to truly be rivals, there has to be some level of mutual respect. In the Gary Williams era, the hatred for Duke that came from Maryland came without respect. That's why Maryland was not our rivals.

[dukebluesincebirth]

If you really are glad Maryland is gone, they were never really our rival and you're over them, why the constant articles like the one on the front page of DBR since yesterday?

It just smacks of "we care so little about you that we're going to keep writing about you even though you're not in our conference anymore."

Move on.


Funny how you are reading DBR articles and starting a thread telling US to move on. I've never been to a Maryland website in my life.

[El_Diablo]

What CDu said.

It just makes Duke fans seem desperate, like we're clinging onto this bitter dislike of another team that we don't even need to be worrying about anymore.

If I have a neighbor who lives across the street who is annoying and sometimes even really rude, and that neighbor moves across town, I would consider myself foolishly obsessed if I spend my Saturdays driving by his house to see what he's up to and how green his lawn isn't. It's just childish.

Like I said, time to move on from Maryland. It was an interesting chapter in Duke history. Now it's essentially over. Let's spend time wringing our hands over the likes of Syracuse and Louisville.

That's not really a good analogy, unless your job is to actually drive around town commenting on other people's lawns all day. DBR is a Duke-focused website, but it generates other sports-related digital content, and I would venture to guess that the little Maryland piece generated a lot more clicks than the Charleston ones posted this week. Like it or not, us Duke fans tend to care about Maryland a little more than other schools, and whether you want to attribute that to some sort of "rivalry" or visceral dislike or just general long-term familiarity (or varying combinations of the three), Maryland's conference move and their continued foibles going forward are topics of continued interest for people.

The article itself is fewer than 100 words long (hardly evidence of some desperate obsession) and just one of many that are churned out on a weekly basis. And it's not like the 30 seconds you spend reading it somehow prevents you from "wringing your hands over the likes of Syracuse and Louisville." If you have something to say about those schools or anything else, I am sure people would welcome the discussion, especially this time of year.

As for me, I have friends and co-workers who are Maryland fans and alumni, so I could not completely escape the stories even if I wanted to. But I am genuinely interested in how Maryland's conference moves turns out over the long run. I hope it fails miserably and spectacularly, so that other ACC schools do not give it serious thought in the future (after the grant of rights expires). Also, until fans of some other school starts throwing batteries and water bottles at Duke parents, I will continue to hold a special place in my heart devoted to enjoying the misfortunes of the Terrapins and welcome articles having some fun at their expense.

[Dukehky]

2004 ACC Title Game: During the National Anthem a group of Maryland fans yelled F You JJ (it's maryland, so of course they yelled the full word during the national anthem, cool guys). They suck. Can't wait for them to be a part of the mediocrity of the Big 10. No national titles in basketball in a decade and a half, best conference in basketball my butt.

[Jarhead]

There's a longer thread on this same exact subject, so anybody have any idea why we have two threads? It's a puzzlement, don't you think?http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/7.gif

[hudlow]

Whatever.... they're gone.

hud

[Duke3517]

Maryland has always had tremendous game plans when they went up against Duke. They used to do a real good job cutting off passing lanes while Duke tried to push the ball through transition. It seemed that Maryland did that better than most against Duke. The rivalry seemed to go away during Kyle Singler's (and Nolan Smith) tenure. I believe Maryland only won once during that time frame. I live in Maryland and I used to listen to Keith Cavanaugh say that they never had a good matchup for Singler. It mostly had to do with not having a defender that matched his versatility. But most likely UMD had great matchups for whatever Duke put out there.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Q: Do/Did you consider Maryland to be a rival?

1) Nope. There is only rival.
2) A little bit, but every ACC team is a rival.
3) Yes, but not as much as UNC
4) A full-blown rival. "Spear the Turtle!"

[Scorp4me]

Honestly couldn't have cared less about them when they were in the ACC. Want to see them fail miserably now that they made the short sighted decision to leave the ACC. I appreciate the DBR for keeping me up to date in regards to that. Doesn't make me them obsessed, just saves us all time =)

[lotusland]

I've been a Duke fan for many years but I'm not an alum. I don't encounter many UMD fans, I've never hated them and always pulled for them against non-ACC opponents. I like them much less since they quit the ACC and I'll probably root against them now. Previously winning or losing against Maryland was no different to me than any other non-UNC school in the conference.

[jv001]

The reason I hate certain teams begin and most of the time end with their fans. Therefore #1 most hated team is the Tar Heels. Therefore #2 most hated team is the Terps. After that there are some players on other teams that I dislike, but for the most part I don't hate the team. That said, GoDuke!

[johnb]

Maryland left for the cash after their athletic dept went broke because of a lousy administration and lousy alumni/state support. It's hard to get passionate about the shortcomings of bureaucrats and middle aged rich guys who elected to not support their school (or at least failed to manage it wisely). And their rank-and-file fans are churlish, boorish, and basically big poopheads; good riddance.

As for the players, I see them as being almost identical to our own players, except not as talented. I don't root for them to fail except insofar as they bring shame and frustration to the guys who orchestrated this pathetic reshuffling.

As for the shock, shock of seeing a Maryland thread on a Duke site.... you started it, and, further, is there a slower sports week than this one?

[Thurber Whyte]

1. No, Maryland was/is not our rival. There is no metric or group of metrics that Maryland fans can point to that is not also true of most other teams in the Conference at one time or another. Exciting games together? Games with a lot riding on them? Their fans really do not like us? You can make the same argument for just about any team in the ACC using these criteria at some point in time. In fact using these criteria, you can make a better argument for rivalries with certain teams outside the Conference: Kentucky and, for a while, Michigan and UConn. Someone mentioned Georgia Tech in the early 90s. Those games were amazing. They were a big part of how the Thriller Dome got its name. However, no one at the time thought of Tech as our rival.

A major force for validating Maryland’s claim was ESPN for selfish reasons. For a couple of years, ESPN included Duke-Maryland games in its “Rivalry Week” promotion placing it at the start of the week and Duke-UNC at the end. The Conference and apparently Duke as well were happy to go along. And why not? Duke had the honor of opening and closing Rivalry Week. However, when Maryland could not keep up its end of the bargain by remaining a national power and ESPN was done with it, ESPN unceremoniously kicked the Duke-Maryland game out of Rivalry Week.


I too was at Duke at the height of the Maryland, yes, rivalry (T '04). It's important to remember that for a couple of years, Maryland was elite and unc was terrible. In 2002, the twerps won the ACC regular season (not to mention the national title) with a 15-1 conference record, while the heels went 4-12. The next year, Duke tied Maryland for 2nd in the regular season at 11-5, with unc checking in at #7 and 6-10. For at least a couple of years, the Maryland rivalry may not have surpassed unc in terms of historic or institutional importance, but in terms of conference competition, genuine competitiveness, and national relevance, Maryland absolutely eclipsed the heels. I understand the perspective that each team can have only one true rival (and to some extent, I agree with that perspective), and in that sense, Maryland was not then and never has been "our rival." That being said, there were plenty of Duke basketball neophytes on campus in 2002-03 who were definitely more excited about Maryland than about unc, and who didn't quite understand why people got so worked up about the heels when they stunk.

This was always the part of the Maryland claim to a rivalry with us that I found the most obnoxious: the implied assumption by Maryland fans that Maryland had instantly stepped into UNC’s place, not just as our rival, but also in the conference generally. It also made me sad for what could have been. UNC’s history with Maryland is pretty similar: a perennial power beating them like a drum year in year out punctuated by a few exciting, completive games here and there. Also, you have an even better target for Maryland fans to project their insecurities onto by accusing their fans of snobbery and elitism. Why could Maryland not have peaked around 1995 when Duke was having its down period? If there is one fan base that is expert at giving another the brush of in terms of claims to a rivalry it is UNC’s. Instead, Maryland fans act like UNC does not even exist, more rather than less so now that UNC returned to its usual form. I would have dearly loved to sit back and watched the spectacle of the unspeakable in full pursuit of the inedible.

I will miss Maryland. I really liked their teams. Walt Williams was one of my favorite ACC players. For the reasons mentioned, I highly respected Gary Williams’s integrity, more so given the harder challenge he undertook when he returned to Maryland to right the ship. I liked the way he could consistently find the diamonds in the rough and make them great players. Some criticize the ACC as being dominated by two teams, Duke and Carolina. However, most years there was a third contender in the mix and, under Gary Williams, it was more often Maryland. Maryland leaves the Conference third in all time winning percentage. You can acknowledge all this without accepting the claim of a rivalry.
It was always Maryland fans I could do without. They have a lot to be genuinely proud about, but no matter how good Maryland was or is, it will never match the inflated self importance of its fans. At this point, I bear no animus real toward Maryland fans either. Switching conferences was not the choice most of them would have made and, even if some are inclined to spout the party line that they are leaving for a better conference, they do so defensively and their heart is not in it.

My ire now is directed at Maryland’s administration. The Big Ten caused several years of trouble and anxiety in college sports and Maryland chose to get in bed with them. I am a moralist. Some might say a petty moralist, but a moralist nonetheless. I am rooting against the success of this relationship simply because it is something that should never have happened. Perhaps, given its predicament, Maryland remaining in the ACC was not a viable option and joining the Big Ten was the only choice it could have made. However, the administration could at least be honest about that and stop using PR to cover its mistakes and trashing the ACC and upselling the Big Ten in the process.


2. No, there is no contradiction in continuing to follow Maryland’s further adventures in its chosen conference. This is why the Greeks invented tragedy. So that people can sit around and watch others destroyed by the gods for their hubris. [Pulls up a chair. Grabs the popcorn.]

[WakeDevil]

Having been at Duke during the height of the rivalry with Maryland, I am going to respectfully disagree with you.

Maryland may have been a rival to you youngsters, but not to the rest of us. And for someone to say we were ever rivals with GT, VA or NC State, maybe on your planet, but not this one.

[sagegrouse]

1. No, Maryland was/is not our rival. There is no metric or group of metrics that Maryland fans can point to that is not also true of most other teams in the Conference at one time or another. Exciting games together? Games with a lot riding on them? Their fans really do not like us? You can make the same argument for just about any team in the ACC using these criteria at some point in time. In fact using these criteria, you can make a better argument for rivalries with certain teams outside the Conference: Kentucky and, for a while, Michigan and UConn. Someone mentioned Georgia Tech in the early 90s. Those games were amazing. They were a big part of how the Thriller Dome got its name. However, no one at the time thought of Tech as our rival.



One measure that folks can use is that for a number of years up through 2013 Duke had two teams against which it played two games every year -- UNC and Maryland. To be fair to your point. those match-ups were probably influenced by TV contracts as much as anything else.

[Henderson]

One measure that folks can use is that for a number of years up through 2013 Duke had two teams against which it played two games every year -- UNC and Maryland. To be fair to your point. those match-ups were probably influenced by TV contracts as much as anything else.

At the risk of sounding like a nostalgia-dwelling old fogey, I do miss the time when all the ACC teams played home-and-away with every other team. It made the end-of-year conference standings more meaningful to me. No quibbling about who had the easier schedule.