2017 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[Henderson]

According to Adam Rowe, Duke has offered Troy Brown Jr. of Las Vegas, a 6-4 (or is it 6-6?) PG from Centennial HS in Las Vegas. He's ranked top 5 (I've seen as high as #1) in the class of 2017. Chase Jeter tweeted his approval.

[Henderson]

BTW, here's an interview with Troy Brown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBrq-VOIDnY) from last month. He says he's 6-6 now and still growing. Pretty clear that he wants to play the point. Nice shout out to Chase Jeter.

[uh_no]

BTW, here's an interview with Troy Brown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBrq-VOIDnY) from last month. He says he's 6-6 now and still growing. Pretty clear that he wants to play the point. Nice shout out to Chase Jeter.

6'6 point guard? while i water at the mouth at a guy that big that can play point, I'm also skeptical of kids who are so driven to play one specific role position or style. does he get angry when his size inhibits his ability to play his desired position? or if he fits better in the team as a 2 or 3?

Kid's young, and his body has a lot of changing to do. I don't know him. I trust the staff to vet character. I just hope any incoming player (not just young Troy) doesn't let their want to fill a specific role end up negatively affecting the team (a la austin rivers, perhaps)

[ricks68]

6'6 point guard? while i water at the mouth at a guy that big that can play point, I'm also skeptical of kids who are so driven to play one specific role position or style. does he get angry when his size inhibits his ability to play his desired position? or if he fits better in the team as a 2 or 3?

Kid's young, and his body has a lot of changing to do. I don't know him. I trust the staff to vet character. I just hope any incoming player (not just young Troy) doesn't let their want to fill a specific role end up negatively affecting the team (a la austin rivers, perhaps)

I specifically remember a particular Michigan State player that played point at 6 ft. 9 inches. He did pretty good.:rolleyes:

ricks

[uh_no]

I specifically remember a particular Michigan State player that played point at 6 ft. 9 inches. He did pretty good.:rolleyes:

ricks

the point isn't that he CAN'T do it....but he shouldn't be so set on doing it if it turns out to not be what he's suited for

[ricks68]

the point isn't that he CAN'T do it....but he shouldn't be so set on doing it if it turns out to not be what he's suited for

The story on Magic is that he felt he was suited to be the PG, and wanted to play PG. One of the big reasons, if not the biggest, he went to Michigan state is because they said they would let him pursue that. I don't see a difference here. Now, if things change in the near future for this young man regarding his growth and how it affects his game, etc., it will probably become a moot point, won't it?

ricks

[Henderson]

the point isn't that he CAN'T do it....but he shouldn't be so set on doing it if it turns out to not be what he's suited for

He's only 15. He has plenty of time to figure stuff out. But for right now, he wants to be taken seriously as a PG rather than have coaches automatically assume that, given his height, he's a 2. I don't see an attitude issue in that. Here's a mix tape (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dUgW77yeag) from his freshman year in HS (!). He certainly likes to pass the ball and seems pretty good at it.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree with Ricks here - a kid who has elite PG skills who's body might continue to grow sounds like a great asset. If he can maintain his ballhandling and dexterity while growing, that makes for quite a matchup nightmare.

Seems a lot easier to keep up your PG skills than to completely retrain someone for post moves after playing nothing but floor general.

+ all the usual rejoinders about 15 year old kids, blah blah, lots can change

[Indoor66]

Anybody remember a kid named Dunleavy?

[peloton]

Anybody remember a kid named Dunleavy?

I sure do. He played collegiately at USC (the SEC one), played in the NBA for several years, and ended up coaching several NBA teams ;).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

He's only 15. He has plenty of time to figure stuff out. But for right now, he wants to be taken seriously as a PG rather than have coaches automatically assume that, given his height, he's a 2. I don't see an attitude issue in that. Here's a mix tape (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dUgW77yeag) from his freshman year in HS (!). He certainly likes to pass the ball and seems pretty good at it.

Blah blah blah, mix tapes are so selective and edited, they don't mean anything - especially a 15 year old kid. How are you supposed to be able to learn ANYTHING about ANYONE from a mix tape? It's like watching SportsCenter and trying to draft a fantasy football team. They just highlight the flashy plays, yadda-yadda-yadda....

(watches)

Oh, yeah, he's a serious passer. Would love to see a true "pass-first" PG again. Even if it is four years down the road.

(tangent) - When I was playing basketball a billion years ago, there was a real pride in the pass-first mentality of a good point guard. The ability to find the open guy when he's only open for a fraction of a second, being able to squeeze the ball through tight places, and the cockiness to know that you could beat a double-team and find the guy you left free. Is this still a thing? I feel like the generation of Iverson-style PGs brought a "score first" frame of mind that has really changed the game. Even Chris Paul - a great passer - isn't in the mold of John Stockton.

This isn't meant to be a rant, but rather a sincere question - are pass first PGs largely a thing of the past?

(back on topic)

Kid looks great. Be interesting to see if his body continues to develop and how his game changes.

[watzone]

Let's not jump the gun on an offer here. Sometimes HS coaches get it wrong, so this needs to be confirmed. He is and will be the real deal, has a great handle, dunks in a smooth manner down the lane, etc. He listed Duke as one of 5 dream schools at 13 and is considered the real deal from scouts, rated the best at his position by ESPN. He is a solid kid from what I have gathered and he did visit Duke over the weekend. The last time Duke offered a soph? DeMarcus Nelson? Long time DBR'ers might remember I broke that news on this very site from the former Gibbons event we all miss so much. Anyhow, it is not Duke policy to offer kids this earlynow and Coach K always has to get a view. Running with what is said on twitter as a sure offer is not always wise in the recruiting world, but I sure as heck would not be upset if it is confirmed. Okay, update, offer has been confirmed. A rare telant for this to hapen

[NSDukeFan]

Blah blah blah, mix tapes are so selective and edited, they don't mean anything - especially a 15 year old kid. How are you supposed to be able to learn ANYTHING about ANYONE from a mix tape? It's like watching SportsCenter and trying to draft a fantasy football team. They just highlight the flashy plays, yadda-yadda-yadda....

(watches)

Oh, yeah, he's a serious passer. Would love to see a true "pass-first" PG again. Even if it is four years down the road.

(tangent) - When I was playing basketball a billion years ago, there was a real pride in the pass-first mentality of a good point guard. The ability to find the open guy when he's only open for a fraction of a second, being able to squeeze the ball through tight places, and the cockiness to know that you could beat a double-team and find the guy you left free. Is this still a thing? I feel like the generation of Iverson-style PGs brought a "score first" frame of mind that has really changed the game. Even Chris Paul - a great passer - isn't in the mold of John Stockton.

This isn't meant to be a rant, but rather a sincere question - are pass first PGs largely a thing of the past?

(back on topic)

Kid looks great. Be interesting to see if his body continues to develop and how his game changes.

I don't think I've seen a pass first point guard at Duke since Quinn Cook or back when coach Thornton used to play.

[Henderson]

Blah blah blah, mix tapes are so selective and edited, they don't mean anything - especially a 15 year old kid. How are you supposed to be able to learn ANYTHING about ANYONE from a mix tape? It's like watching SportsCenter and trying to draft a fantasy football team. They just highlight the flashy plays, yadda-yadda-yadda....

(watches)

Oh, yeah, he's a serious passer. Would love to see a true "pass-first" PG again. Even if it is four years down the road.

(tangent) - When I was playing basketball a billion years ago, there was a real pride in the pass-first mentality of a good point guard. The ability to find the open guy when he's only open for a fraction of a second, being able to squeeze the ball through tight places, and the cockiness to know that you could beat a double-team and find the guy you left free. Is this still a thing? I feel like the generation of Iverson-style PGs brought a "score first" frame of mind that has really changed the game. Even Chris Paul - a great passer - isn't in the mold of John Stockton.

This isn't meant to be a rant, but rather a sincere question - are pass first PGs largely a thing of the past?

(back on topic)

Kid looks great. Be interesting to see if his body continues to develop and how his game changes.

I share your skepticism regarding highlight mix tapes. But if all you have are Ramen noodles, you eat Ramen noodles.

Pass-first PGs? I think Tyus Jones (despite his prodigious scoring in HS) is regarded as one. And there are NBA point guards whose role is that of a distributor and aren't thought of as great scorers. Rajon Rondo comes to mind. They're just so much more dangerous if they can also score.

[MCFinARL]

I don't think I've seen a pass first point guard at Duke since Quinn Cook or back when coach Thornton used to play.

Somebody please spork this, because i can't. Well said!

[Dev11]

JP Tokoto was the 'top' player in his class when he was a sophomore. Taylor King was the 'top' player in his class as a freshman.

[Des Esseintes]

JP Tokoto was the 'top' player in his class when he was a sophomore. Taylor King was the 'top' player in his class as a freshman.

Not sure if those guys were actually rated #1. Jabari Parker was, however.

[CPDUKEGUY24]

I share your skepticism regarding highlight mix tapes. But if all you have are Ramen noodles, you eat Ramen noodles.

Pass-first PGs? I think Tyus Jones (despite his prodigious scoring in HS) is regarded as one. And there are NBA point guards whose role is that of a distributor and aren't thought of as great scorers. Rajon Rondo comes to mind. They're just so much more dangerous if they can also score.

I think most would agree that in recent memory, Kendall "Left-Hand" Marshall, would be considered a pass first PG. He averaged 8pt/9ast/1.3-3pt (40%) last year in LA. As well, Kyle "Slow-Mo" Anderson (listed at 6'9 on Basketball-Reference), was in a similar mold as Mr. Brown here, just a little taller. IIRC, his pops was very adamant about Kyle playing the PG position, wherever he ended up playing. Though, I'm not sure I would would classify his 5 assists per at UCLA, as a pass first PG.

[watzone]

The big difference here with concern to King and Tokoto is this. Tokoto was always considered a project by talent evaluators and rated off his pure athleticism. It became clear that he was what is called an upside guy but his outside shot never developed and that was a key factor as to something that needed to happen and stated by most who covered him on the AAU circuit. King was as we all know, a bit troubled, being labeled the next big thing at a ridiculously young age as well and said trouble came to light slowly. The position of point guard is much easier to evaluate early on. The upside for Brown like some others, bit not the aforementioned, is indeed his youth and he is still growing. He is already playing with older kids at a very high level and has an undisputable handle for his size that will not go away. What may happen is that he could play positions other than the point in time with his growth, but he is already quite adept from those I greatly trust with his skill set. By offering, Coach K is clearly saying he is confident in what he has seen and gathered for it is as we have talked about quite rare. King looked fabulous playing beside Kevin Love in Cameron back in the day and guru's surely get it wrong more often than they will admit, but Brown seems ahead of the curve of both those guys and he is still growing unlike the 6-6 King did. Tokoto has yet to reach his full potential as well but again, his athleticism wowed folks but his ranking continued to slip as the years went on as did Taylor King's to a degree. I personally think Troy Brown is a very safe bet to not disappoint, but that is simply an opinion, but a mildly educated one in that I have covered this kind of stuff for several years. It will be fun to see how he turns out and this offer admittedly excites me in that he seems like such a solid young man off the court and on. He competed in both the LeBron James Skills Academy and the Chris Paul PG camp, two prestigious Nike events and that bodes well for the future in that Duke is a Nike school. I am sure that Coach K being in Vegas often with Team USA doesn't hurt as well and in an article I will not link from my site in that most of the information has been shared already in this post, he is already involved with USA Basketball at a very young age and these guys do some serious scouting to see if a kid is worthy of the invitation.

[lotusland]

The big difference here with concern to King and Tokoto is this. Tokoto was always considered a project by talent evaluators and rated off his pure athleticism. It became clear that he was what is called an upside guy but his outside shot never developed and that was a key factor as to something that needed to happen and stated by most who covered him on the AAU circuit. King was as we all know, a bit troubled, being labeled the next big thing at a ridiculously young age as well and said trouble came to light slowly. The position of point guard is much easier to evaluate early on. The upside for Brown like some others, bit not the aforementioned, is indeed his youth and he is still growing. He is already playing with older kids at a very high level and has an undisputable handle for his size that will not go away. What may happen is that he could play positions other than the point in time with his growth, but he is already quite adept from those I greatly trust with his skill set. By offering, Coach K is clearly saying he is confident in what he has seen and gathered for it is as we have talked about quite rare. King looked fabulous playing beside Kevin Love in Cameron back in the day and guru's surely get it wrong more often than they will admit, but Brown seems ahead of the curve of both those guys and he is still growing unlike the 6-6 King did. Tokoto has yet to reach his full potential as well but again, his athleticism wowed folks but his ranking continued to slip as the years went on as did Taylor King's to a degree. I personally think Troy Brown is a very safe bet to not disappoint, but that is simply an opinion, but a mildly educated one in that I have covered this kind of stuff for several years. It will be fun to see how he turns out and this offer admittedly excites me in that he seems like such a solid young man off the court and on. He competed in both the LeBron James Skills Academy and the Chris Paul PG camp, two prestigious Nike events and that bodes well for the future in that Duke is a Nike school. I am sure that Coach K being in Vegas often with Team USA doesn't hurt as well and in an article I will not link from my site in that most of the information has been shared already in this post, he is already involved with USA Basketball at a very young age and these guys do some serious scouting to see if a kid is worthy of the invitation.

I really need to stop following recruiting. As much as I dread the apparent changes that are coming with the revenue sports it is clear that all the money chasing and catering to jocks and coaches has gotten completely out of hand and well beyond the supposed mission of higher education.

[tommy]

I really need to stop following recruiting. As much as I dread the apparent changes that are coming with the revenue sports it is clear that all the money chasing and catering to jocks and coaches has gotten completely out of hand and well beyond the supposed mission of higher education.

Ya think? That train left the station a long, long time ago.

But don't let the fact that this kid or that, or his AAU coach/team are affiliated with one shoe company or another be the straw that breaks the camel's back for you. Yes, that kind of thing can be important in a given case, sometimes very important. But sometimes it means nothing. Case in point: Duke's latest successful recruitment of Chase Jeter. Chase's AAU team is sponsored by Adidas. Travel, gear, the whole bit. Jeter made his college announcement on national television right in the middle of, and at the site of, Adidas' last major event of the summer, which he was invited to play in, the AdidasNations. With Adidas people everywhere and Adidas paraphernalia everywhere, he looks into the camera and announces for Duke, a Nike school.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Okay, I get it. I am in the minority when it comes to the demise of the pass first PG.

Kid looks good. Hope it pans out.

[gam7]

Question about that picture on the front page associated with the offer to Brown: does anyone know what jacket/shirt that is a picture of - with that patch showing the national championship years? I don't recall ever seeing that before.

[yancem]

From that mix tape it is very apparent that he has excellent court vision/awareness and solid if not great passing ability. I don't remember watching videos of Kendal Marshall but I would imagine they were quite similar. The mix does focus completely on his passing so it is hard to tell how athletic he is or what kind of scoring ability he has. Regardless, he looks like he would be a lot of fun to watch or play with.

[SkyBrickey]

Wendell Carter, a sophomore out of Atlanta has been offered.

https://mobile.twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/589976442122842112

He's a 6'10", 230 lb center and the 5th best prospect in the class according to Scout.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/topic/players?type=players&category=Basketball%20Recruiting&classYear=2017&minimumInterest=%22Low%22

I've seen Wendell play. Very long. He has a fluid game and a very nice shooting stroke out to 3 point range. Still growing into his body. He will stretch defenses at the 4 or the 5 in college.

And I hear he's a great kid. Must be to get a Duke offer as a soph.

[Troublemaker]

With 2015 recruiting wrapping up tomorrow, and with all the main 2016 targets (Giles, Smith, Tatum, Battle) already identified, Duke is now looking to send out some more 2017 offers, especially having just wrapped evaluating two sessions of Nike and Adidas AAU games.

Duke had already offered 6'6" PG Troy Brown in the 2017 class, and it looks like Duke will now offer 6'1" combo guard Trae Young as well.

This following tweeter is connected and I trust him.

GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim (https://twitter.com/GSwaim) · 4h4 hours ago (https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/592462214897864704)

I can now safely say that #Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash) will offer 2017 G Trae Young (OK) this week...likely as soon as tomorrow.

[Troublemaker]

Duke's been talking with Trae Young for awhile now:

Trae Young ‏@TheTraeYoung (https://twitter.com/TheTraeYoung) Feb 11 (https://twitter.com/TheTraeYoung/status/565686946182471681)
Great conversation with Coach Scheyer! Motivated me beyond words #DukeBlueDevils (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DukeBlueDevils?src=hash)

[BD80]

Duke's been talking with Trae Young for awhile now:

Trae Young ‏@TheTraeYoung (https://twitter.com/TheTraeYoung) Feb 11 (https://twitter.com/TheTraeYoung/status/565686946182471681)
Great conversation with Coach Scheyer! Motivated me beyond words #DukeBlueDevils (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DukeBlueDevils?src=hash)

Trae for trey? A TraeTrey!

With a name like Trae, he HAS to come to play for the coach who has most effectively integrated the three point shot into his team's offense.

[roywhite]

Trae for trey? A TraeTrey!

With a name like Trae, he HAS to come to play for the coach who has most effectively integrated the three point shot into his team's offense.

Well, then, save room for a dynamite prospect in the Class of 2018.

That would be Tre Jones, a PG from Apple Valley, MN and, of course, brother of Tyus Jones. He started this year as a freshman, led his team to a state championship, adding some key free throws down the stretch in the final.

Tre Jones mixtape (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwHvhl7TZzA)

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Well, then, save room for a dynamite prospect in the Class of 2018.

That would be Tre Jones, a PG from Apple Valley, MN and, of course, brother of Tyus Jones. He started this year as a freshman, led his team to a state championship, adding some key free throws down the stretch in the final.

Tre Jones mixtape (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwHvhl7TZzA)

Has Coach K ever offered a freshman? Maybe Tre could be the first!

[DukeFanSince1990]

This is the kid mentioned on the front page for 2017:



http://vine.co/v/OwOjjYi0KJb


OK, that was impressive.

[Channing]

Wendell Carter, a sophomore out of Atlanta has been offered.

https://mobile.twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/589976442122842112

He's a 6'10", 230 lb center and the 5th best prospect in the class according to Scout.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/topic/players?type=players&category=Basketball%20Recruiting&classYear=2017&minimumInterest=%22Low%22

I've seen Wendell play. Very long. He has a fluid game and a very nice shooting stroke out to 3 point range. Still growing into his body. He will stretch defenses at the 4 or the 5 in college.

And I hear he's a great kid. Must be to get a Duke offer as a soph.

Although it doesn't mean much ... Wendell is (if Scout is to be believed) currently at one of the elite academic prep schools in Atlanta (Pace Academy). Pace is known equally for its rigorous education as it is for its athletic prowess (if not more so). Pace is also a smaller school (class AA), so I'm not sure if he may consider transferring (or if AAU will be enough exposure for him).

[gam7]

This is the kid mentioned on the front page for 2017:



http://vine.co/v/OwOjjYi0KJb


OK, that was impressive.

The link on the front page isn't working for me. What does the article say?

[DukeFanSince1990]

The link on the front page isn't working for me. What does the article say?

The link didn't work for me either, so I just googled his name and this is what I found.

Maybe this (http://247sports.com/Bolt/Top-2017-Five-Star-Small-Forward-in-Love-with-Duke-Program-36997600) was the intended link?

[jimsumner]

The wildcard in the point-guard sweepstakes could be a kid named Frank Jackson, from Utah. Class of 2016. Lots of mutual interest between he and Duke.

But here's the rub. He's Mormon and plans on going on a two-year mission. Would he go after high school? After a year at college?

And he's better than Stillman White. Or Chase Ainge.

Apparently he's still figuring out what he wants to do and when he wants to do it. But he's very much on Duke's radar screen. So, he could be a 2016 signee who wouldn't actually suit up until guys like Smith and Murray are long gone to the NBA.

[DukeFanSince1990]

found this from his sophomore year:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8O-QI8edCY

I'm sold.

[NashvilleDevil]

In either the 2015 recruiting thread or the welcome Ingram thread someone linked to a Kentucky board in which thy discuss the ridiculous rumor of K to OKC. On that board they were saying right now is a dead period in recruiting where coaches cannot talk to recruits. Can someone please clarify.

[Troublemaker]

In either the 2015 recruiting thread or the welcome Ingram thread someone linked to a Kentucky board in which thy discuss the ridiculous rumor of K to OKC. On that board they were saying right now is a dead period in recruiting where coaches cannot talk to recruits. Can someone please clarify.

It's really a quiet period, not a dead period, right now. (I got confused about that, too).

Definitions here (scroll down to the FAQ):
http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/resources/recruiting-calendars

Calendar here: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Men%27s%20Basketball%20Recruiting%20Calendar2014.p df

[NashvilleDevil]

It's really a quiet period, not a dead period, right now. (I got confused about that, too).

Definitions here (scroll down to the FAQ):
http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/resources/recruiting-calendars

Calendar here: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Men%27s%20Basketball%20Recruiting%20Calendar2014.p df

Dead and quiet definitions are exactly the same. Both say no face to face or visits but calling and writing are ok.

[Troublemaker]

Dead and quiet definitions are exactly the same. Both say no face to face or visits but calling and writing are ok.

Hold on, explanation coming.

[gam7]

It's really a quiet period, not a dead period, right now. (I got confused about that, too).

Definitions here (scroll down to the FAQ):
http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/resources/recruiting-calendars

Calendar here: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Men%27s%20Basketball%20Recruiting%20Calendar2014.p df

Those definitions appear to me to have the same meaning. Is there an inadvertent omission of "not" in the Quiet Period definition?

[Duke95]

found this from his sophomore year:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8O-QI8edCY

I'm sold.

Yep. We need to get this kid.

[Troublemaker]

Those definitions appear to me to have the same meaning. Is there an inadvertent omission of "not" in the Quiet Period definition?

Yeah, the NCAA's own site kind of fails there.

It's an on-campus, off-campus thing.

Got this from Notre Dame's site (http://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/RecruitingCalendars.shtml#QuietPeriod):


Quiet Period. A period when it is permissible to make in-person recruiting contacts only on the institution's campus. No in-person, off-campus recruiting contacts or evaluations may be made during the quiet period.

Dead Period. A period when it is not permissible to make in-person recruiting contacts or evaluations on or off-campus or to permit official or unofficial visits by PSAs to campus.

[Henderson]

Yeah, the NCAA's own site kind of fails there.

It's an on-campus, off-campus thing.

Got this from Notre Dame's site (http://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/RecruitingCalendars.shtml#QuietPeriod):


Quiet Period. A period when it is permissible to make in-person recruiting contacts only on the institution's campus. No in-person, off-campus recruiting contacts or evaluations may be made during the quiet period.

Dead Period. A period when it is not permissible to make in-person recruiting contacts or evaluations on or off-campus or to permit official or unofficial visits by PSAs to campus.


It's good to know when you are supposed to be quiet, when you are supposed to be dead, and the difference between the two. Period.

[theschwartz]

found this from his sophomore year:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8O-QI8edCY

I'm sold.

He looks like a five force player to me.

[lotusland]

Well, then, save room for a dynamite prospect in the Class of 2018.

That would be Tre Jones, a PG from Apple Valley, MN and, of course, brother of Tyus Jones. He started this year as a freshman, led his team to a state championship, adding some key free throws down the stretch in the final.

Tre Jones mixtape (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwHvhl7TZzA)

Does he have a young friend named Okafor in his class he'd like to attend Duke with?

I'd like to run that package deal back again.

[lotusland]

He looks like a five force player to me. He looks very skilled for his height/length. The competition does not.

[Henderson]

He looks very skilled for his height/length. The competition does not.

Watching mixtapes is tricky. Gotta be discerning, but there is sometimes something.

[MCFinARL]

Well, then, save room for a dynamite prospect in the Class of 2018.

That would be Tre Jones, a PG from Apple Valley, MN and, of course, brother of Tyus Jones. He started this year as a freshman, led his team to a state championship, adding some key free throws down the stretch in the final.

Tre Jones mixtape (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwHvhl7TZzA)

Yes, it's probably too soon to tell whether Tre and Duke would be a good fit but I definitely have my fingers crossed--that would be great.

[gam7]

Duke had already offered 6'6" PG Troy Brown in the 2017 class, and it looks like Duke will now offer 6'1" combo guard Trae Young as well.

This following tweeter is connected and I trust him.

GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim (https://twitter.com/GSwaim) · 4h4 hours ago (https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/592462214897864704)

I can now safely say that #Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash) will offer 2017 G Trae Young (OK) this week...likely as soon as tomorrow.


In the youtube reels I saw, this Trae Young kid looks very, dare I say, Tyus-like. He's not currently rated as a top 25 player on ESPN, but I suspect that is going to change soon, as it seems he has been very impressive in EYBL play.

Below is a comparison of Young through 3/4 of his EYBL season (i.e., through today), and Jones through his pre-junior-year EYBL season. They are virtually identical physically and are similarly efficient as scorers, though Trae Young scores much more from deep and is a much better three-point shooter than Tyus was at the same stage. Young appears to be a slightly better scorer than 2012 Tyus, but Tyus (not surprisingly) was a better distributor and took better care of the ball.

Obviously, there are different circumstances on different teams, tempos, etc. For example, Trae plays AAU with another 2017 stud mentioned in this thread, Porter, whereas Tyus was his team's clear focus, even in 2012 (and likely other teams' primary defensive priority - to the extent there are any defensive priorities in the EYBL). Also, there was a big uptick in Tyus's numbers and efficiency in that year's Peach Jam (early signs of Tyus Stones) and he was unbelievably efficient throughout the entire EYBL season the following year. Nonetheless, I think these numbers are a very good sign for Trae's potential. I like what I see.


Young Jones
Height 6'1" 6'1"
Weight 170 170
Pts/game 20.1 16.8
eFG% .526 .536
FT % .812 .765
3 Pt. attempts 116 39
3 Pt. % .371 .256
Assists/game 3.7 5.3
TO/game 3.6 1.9
Rebs/game 3.1 3.1
Steals/game 1.8 1.7
Minutes 24.6 26.5


Apparently, another 2017 kid, Jarred Vanderbilt, has been one of the most impressive players in the EYBL so far. He plays for Houston Hoops - Winslow's AAU program. He's already a top 5 2017 type, so he probably can't rise much, if at all, but sounds like he's solidified his standing as one of the elite of the elite. He has heard from Duke, but not sure how serious things are with him yet.

[SkyBrickey]

Wendell Carter, a sophomore out of Atlanta has been offered.

https://mobile.twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/589976442122842112

He's a 6'10", 230 lb center and the 5th best prospect in the class according to Scout.

http://scouthoops.scout.com/topic/players?type=players&category=Basketball%20Recruiting&classYear=2017&minimumInterest=%22Low%22

I've seen Wendell play. Very long. He has a fluid game and a very nice shooting stroke out to 3 point range. Still growing into his body. He will stretch defenses at the 4 or the 5 in college.

And I hear he's a great kid. Must be to get a Duke offer as a soph.

Duke 2017 target Wendell Carter frustrating Harry Giles and impressing at EYBL:

http://hoopseen.com/~devhoops/index.php/news/headlines/item/3087-lexington-eybl-top-performers-from-justin-young

[JasonEvans]

Duke 2017 target Wendell Carter frustrating Harry Giles and impressing at EYBL:

http://hoopseen.com/~devhoops/index.php/news/headlines/item/3087-lexington-eybl-top-performers-from-justin-young

My son played against Wendell Carter this year. Wendell plays for Pace Academy, which is one of my sons' school's rivals. Suffice it to say that Wendell was a man playing with boys. He basically did whatever he wanted on the floor. He seemed pretty disinterested much of the time. I was also put off as he did not warm up with his team. It was a bit like he was a separate entity from them -- swooping in to dominate the game but not entirely a part of the whole team. That said, friends of mine who know him say he is a sweet kid who works hard in school and that he does not have an ego. It is worth noting that the school he attends is one of the better private schools in the city, so he is getting a top-notch education and Duke would not be a culture shock to him at all.

I would imagine we will play against him the next couple years. I'll update as I see him play more.

-Jason "my 5-10 son was forced to guard Wendell at times... it was not pretty" Evans

[Duke95]

Wendell Carter
Michael Porter
Trae Young

That's my Duke 2017 recruiting wish list so far.

[AncientPsychicT]

Wendell Carter
Michael Porter
Trae Young

That's my Duke 2017 recruiting wish list so far.

Uhh... Troy Brown? (http://247sports.com/Player/Troy-Brown-39065)

He was our first offer in this class.

[roywhite]

Uhh... Troy Brown? (http://247sports.com/Player/Troy-Brown-39065)

He was our first offer in this class.

Almost hate to ask after some of the discussions here about position labels, but is Troy Brown generally thought to be a PG or perhaps some variation of shooting guard/lead guard/combo guard, etc.?

[Troublemaker]

In the youtube reels I saw, this Trae Young kid looks very, dare I say, Tyus-like. He's not currently rated as a top 25 player on ESPN, but I suspect that is going to change soon, as it seems he has been very impressive in EYBL play.

Below is a comparison of Young through 3/4 of his EYBL season (i.e., through today), and Jones through his pre-junior-year EYBL season. They are virtually identical physically and are similarly efficient as scorers, though Trae Young scores much more from deep and is a much better three-point shooter than Tyus was at the same stage. Young appears to be a slightly better scorer than 2012 Tyus, but Tyus (not surprisingly) was a better distributor and took better care of the ball.

<snip>

Thanks for that analysis, gam. I hope you're right that Trae is Tyus-like because according to Trae in the following 247 article, the scholarship offer will be coming on his visit: http://247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-serious-about-2017-point-guard-37531411

Excerpt:

Although Duke hasn't yet offered, Young expects an offer on the visit.
"Duke does things a little different than everyone else," Young told 247Sports. "They like to offer face to face. They said they were going to offer, so I'm expecting it to happen."

[Troublemaker]

Almost hate to ask after some of the discussions here about position labels, but is Troy Brown generally thought to be a PG or perhaps some variation of shooting guard/lead guard/combo guard, etc.?

I would say Brown's a combo guard due to his size.

He's someone that can play PG but can also play wing alongside a small PG like Trae Young, if needed, since Brown is 6'6".

If you want to play two PGs together, pairing Young with the giant Brown might be the on-paper ideal because you don't lose size on the wing on defense.

[gam7]

Thanks for that analysis, gam. I hope you're right that Trae is Tyus-like because according to Trae in the following 247 article, the scholarship offer will be coming on his visit: http://247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-serious-about-2017-point-guard-37531411

Excerpt:

Although Duke hasn't yet offered, Young expects an offer on the visit.
"Duke does things a little different than everyone else," Young told 247Sports. "They like to offer face to face. They said they were going to offer, so I'm expecting it to happen."

In the final EYBL session (subsequent to my post), Trae took a bit of a step back statistically, but overall, he seems to have helped himself with his AAU play. Also, comparing any guard's EYBL stats to Tyus's is almost not fair. His numbers were ridiculously good both years.

[Duvall]

I mean, I hope there's a giant chart somewhere in the basketball office that keeps track of all these potential package deals. (http://usatodayhss.com/2015/trae-young-michael-porter-package-deal-michael-porter-trae-young-mokan-elite-eybl#sthash.5zvoNvAN.uxfs&st_refDomain=&st_refQuery=)


In 2014, Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones coordinated a plan to meet up at Duke.

The result? A national championship.

Come 2015, Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney decided to continue their AAU dominance with E1T1 (Fla.) in college, opting to take their talents to Baton Rouge and in 2016 Harry Giles III and Jayson Tatum say they’re planning to keep the proverbial package deal streak alive at a school yet to be determined.

The operative question: Which pair, if any, plans to join forces in college from the 2017 class?

Meet Mokan Elite (Kan.) duo Michael Porter Jr. and Trae Young.

“Yep we’re gonna do it,” Young said. “We’re putting it out there that we’re gonna play together. We just feel like we can do big things together.”

[Duvall]

I mean, I hope there's a giant chart somewhere in the basketball office that keeps track of all these potential package deals. (http://usatodayhss.com/2015/trae-young-michael-porter-package-deal-michael-porter-trae-young-mokan-elite-eybl#sthash.5zvoNvAN.uxfs&st_refDomain=&st_refQuery=)

Wait, hang on. (http://zagsblog.com/articles/at-usa-basketball-wendell-carter-jr-gary-trent-jr-talking-potential-package/)


Now, just a couple of months after Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones led the Blue Devils to the NCAA title, two other young prospects have discussed a similar package deal while soaking in the ice bath at the USA Basketball training facility in Colorado Springs, CO.

That would be 6-10 big man Wendell Carter Jr. of Atlanta (GA) Pace and 6-5 shooting guard Gary Trent Jr. of Apple Valley (MN), two Class of 2017 stars who made the USA U16 team.

“Me and Gary, we kind of decided to go to school together,” Carter Jr. told SNY.tv by phone just as Game 1 of the NBA Finals was about to begin. “I don’t know if it’s going to be official but we’re going to try to. We’re going to try to put Jarred [Vanderbilt] in the [mix] too.”

Asked if they had any schools in mind, Carter Jr., said: “Me and Gary’s top right now would probably be Duke, but we’re both open to all. I don’t want to speak for him, I’m open for all colleges….It’s whatever fits me.”

[Troublemaker]

Wait, hang on. (http://zagsblog.com/articles/at-usa-basketball-wendell-carter-jr-gary-trent-jr-talking-potential-package/)

Ha! Interestingly, Duke might have a chance to land both the Young/Porter and Carter/Trent Package Deals. Do we need a label for two packages agreeing to play together? Swingers Deal?

[BD80]

Wait, hang on. (http://zagsblog.com/articles/at-usa-basketball-wendell-carter-jr-gary-trent-jr-talking-potential-package/)

"6-5 shooting guard Gary Trent Jr. of Apple Valley (MN), "

Apple Valley sounds like a basketball factory to me. Where is Tyus' younger brother going to school?

[juise]

"6-5 shooting guard Gary Trent Jr. of Apple Valley (MN), "

Apple Valley sounds like a basketball factory to me. Where is Tyus' younger brother going to school?

Apple Valley. (http://bringmethenews.com/2015/06/02/apple-valleys-tre-jones-gary-trent-jr-named-to-u-16-national-team/)

[roywhite]

"6-5 shooting guard Gary Trent Jr. of Apple Valley (MN), "

Apple Valley sounds like a basketball factory to me. Where is Tyus' younger brother going to school?


Apple Valley. (http://bringmethenews.com/2015/06/02/apple-valleys-tre-jones-gary-trent-jr-named-to-u-16-national-team/)

Actually, Apple Valley has been known as a wrestling school. They generally win the MN high school tournament and are ranked among the nation's best virtually every year. FWIW, some of the comments from opposing fans have been how they seem to end up with talented wrestlers from other towns or even other states, and that the transfer rules are very loose.

Apple Valley won a string of state basketball championships with Tyus Jones as PG, and this past year won another state championship with freshman Tre Jones as PG and Gary Trent, Jr.as shooting guard. Here's a feature piece on young Trent.

High school basketball: Gary Trent Jr. stepping out from father's shadow (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_28172831/high-school-basketball-gary-trent-jr-stepping-out)

[BluePanda]

ESPN updated their class of 2017 rankings today (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2017). Looks like quite a few guys talked about in this tread are doing very well and/or made big jumps up:

#2 Michael Porter, F (favorite player in this class)
#4 Wendell Carter, C (offered)
#6 Troy Brown Jr., G (offered)
#8 Gary Trent Jr., G (previously unranked in ESPN 25)
#22 Trae Young, G (also unranked in ESPN 25, but not a huge jump from ? to 22)

Really hoping one or two of those package deals pull through, but obviously it's still a long time until this class signs anywhere.

Clearly we're only recruiting even-ranked players in this class.

[devildeac]

ESPN updated their class of 2017 rankings today (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2017). Looks like quite a few guys talked about in this tread are doing very well and/or made big jumps up:

#2 Michael Porter, F (favorite player in this class)
#4 Wendell Carter, C (offered)
#6 Troy Brown Jr., G (offered)
#8 Gary Trent Jr., G (previously unranked in ESPN 25)
#22 Trae Young, G (also unranked in ESPN 25, but not a huge jump from ? to 22)

Really hoping one or two of those package deals pull through, but obviously it's still a long time until this class signs anywhere.

Clearly we're only recruiting even-ranked players in this class.

That's odd, but rational:o.

Thanks for the update.

[Duke95]

Clearly we're only recruiting even-ranked players in this class.

Yeah, that seems odd.

[BD80]

...

Clearly we're only recruiting even-ranked players in this class.


That's odd, but rational:o. ...

It'll even out.

[Indoor66]

It'll even out.

It must have something to do with KenPom.

[mgtr]

It'll even out.

Eventually!

[ChillinDuke]

It must have something to do with KenPom.

Are these rankings tempo-adjusted?

- Chillin

[jimsumner]

ESPN updated their class of 2017 rankings today (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2017). Looks like quite a few guys talked about in this tread are doing very well and/or made big jumps up:

#2 Michael Porter, F (favorite player in this class)
#4 Wendell Carter, C (offered)
#6 Troy Brown Jr., G (offered)
#8 Gary Trent Jr., G (previously unranked in ESPN 25)
#22 Trae Young, G (also unranked in ESPN 25, but not a huge jump from ? to 22)

Really hoping one or two of those package deals pull through, but obviously it's still a long time until this class signs anywhere.

Clearly we're only recruiting even-ranked players in this class.

Duke is also recruiting No. 16 Brian Bowen and is at least kicking the tires on Vanderbilt, at No. 3.

[ChillinDuke]

Duke is also recruiting No. 16 Brian Bowen and is at least kicking the tires on Vanderbilt, at No. 3.

Jim, did you even read the last few posts? There's simply no way we're looking at #3.

#16 for sure, though.

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

Clearly we're only recruiting even-ranked players in this class.

Crap. That means, at best, we are only recruiting one prime player.

[jimsumner]

Jim, did you even read the last few posts? There's simply no way we're looking at #3.

#16 for sure, though.

- Chillin

In KenPom, tempo-adjusted cinder blocks, Vanderbilt is an even number.

[devildeac]

Jim, did you even read the last few posts? There's simply no way we're looking at #3.

#16 for sure, though.

- Chillin


Crap. That means, at best, we are only recruiting one prime player.

I'm square with #16. I was going to let the prime recruit comment pass but I see OPK already added that one.

[devildeac]

In KenPom, tempo-adjusted cinder blocks, Vanderbilt is an even number.

Very imaginary.

[conmanlhughes]

Duke has just offered Apple Valley SG Gary Trent Jr, a former teammate of Tyus Jones.

[superdave]

Duke has just offered Apple Valley SG Gary Trent Jr, a former teammate of Tyus Jones.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/6/15/8783367/college-basketball-recruiting-duke-kentucky-north-carolina-gary-trent-jr

http://247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-offers-2017-five-star-SG-Gary-Trent-JR-37768960

[Troublemaker]

Trent Jr was named MVP of the recently completed FIBA Americans U16 tourney. Coaches and teammates raved about his play and leadership.

[roywhite]

Trent Jr was named MVP of the recently completed FIBA Americans U16 tourney. Coaches and teammates raved about his play and leadership.

Yeah, here's some more detail on the U-16 tournament champs:

USA Comes From Behind For 77-60 Victory Over Canada For Fourth FIBA Americas U16 Championship Gold Medal (http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2015/06/usa-u16-men-win-fiba-americas-u16-championship.aspx)


Gary Trent Jr. (Apple Valley H.S./Apple Valley, Minn.) scored all 19 points of his points in the second half and earned tournament MVP honors. Tied as the USA’s scoring leader on the night was Jarred Vanderbilt (Victory Prep School/Houston, Texas), who had 10 of the team’s first-half points and finished with 19 points and 10 rebounds. Wendell Carter Jr. (Pace Academy/Fairburn, Ga.) posted a double-double with 11 points and 10 rebounds. Tre Jones (Apple Valley H.S./Appel Valley, Minn.) had five steals and finished the tournament with a USA U16 competition record 19 steals, breaking Malik Newman’s record of 14 set in 2013.

[BD80]

Yeah, here's some more detail on the U-16 tournament champs:

USA Comes From Behind For 77-60 Victory Over Canada For Fourth FIBA Americas U16 Championship Gold Medal (http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2015/06/usa-u16-men-win-fiba-americas-u16-championship.aspx)

...Tre Jones (Apple Valley H.S./Appel Valley, Minn.) had five steals and finished the tournament with a USA U16 competition record 19 steals, breaking Malik Newman’s record of 14 set in 2013. ...

Come on Mike, make an offer to Tre. Don't we have any sense of legacy?

[NSDukeFan]

Come on Mike, make an offer to Tre. Don't we have any sense of legacy?

It worked for th Plumlees, but not Aubrey Dawkins.

[jimsumner]

Yeah, here's some more detail on the U-16 tournament champs:

USA Comes From Behind For 77-60 Victory Over Canada For Fourth FIBA Americas U16 Championship Gold Medal (http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2015/06/usa-u16-men-win-fiba-americas-u16-championship.aspx)

And Duke is recruiting all four of the above mentioned.

[MCFinARL]

Come on Mike, make an offer to Tre. Don't we have any sense of legacy?

Well, give him some time--Tre Jones is scheduled to graduate from high school in 2018.

[devildeac]

Well, give him some time--Tre Jones is scheduled to graduate from high school in 2018.

WTH? No early word on whether he'll re-classify:rolleyes:.

(kidding, kidding)

[Troublemaker]

Wendell Carter gets officially offered as well.


Wendell Carter Jr (https://twitter.com/wendellcarter34) retweeted


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/573066820699086848/pDBRd4Ph_bigger.jpegAndrew Slater ‏@ASlater247 (https://twitter.com/ASlater247) 3h3 hours ago (https://twitter.com/ASlater247/status/610934568229535746)
#Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash) has officially offered 6'10" Wendell Carter @wendellcarter34 (https://twitter.com/wendellcarter34) . Carter just won a gold medal with @usabasketball (https://twitter.com/usabasketball) at the FIBA Americas.


That makes 3 official so far in this class: Troy Brown Jr, Gary Trent Jr, Wendell Carter Jr

More to come I'm sure

[Henderson]

Wendell Carter gets officially offered as well.

That makes 3 official so far in this class: Troy Brown Jr, Gary Trent Jr, Wendell Carter Jr

More to come I'm sure

But only if they are juniors. Or at least self-identify as juniors.

[pfrduke]

That makes 3 official so far in this class: Troy Brown Jr, Gary Trent Jr, Wendell Carter Jr

More to come I'm sure


But only if they are juniors. Or at least self-identify as juniors.

They say most freshmen become sophomores by the time they get to the end of their first season, but these guys will already be juniors by the time they start!

[BD80]

But only if they are juniors. Or at least self-identify as juniors.

Rachel Dolezal self-identifies as a junior. Among other things.

I'm still looking for the box with "curmudgeon" for me to check.

[Saratoga2]

They say most freshmen become sophomores by the time they get to the end of their first season, but these guys will already be juniors by the time they start!

And they may still be juniors when and if they graduate.

[Troublemaker]

If the next two offers are Michael Porter Jr and Trae Young, I'm going to have to insist that Trae Young's father change his name to match Trae's.

[BluePanda]

If the next two offers are Michael Porter Jr and Trae Young, I'm going to have to insist that Trae Young's father change his name to match Trae's.

As much as I would like to see Trae Young (soon-to-be Jr.) offered along with Porter, I don't think we would offer Troy Brown, Gary Trent and another guard, especially since Brown has been our first and top target for this class.

[Troublemaker]

As much as I would like to see Trae Young (soon-to-be Jr.) offered along with Porter, I don't think we would offer Troy Brown, Gary Trent and another guard, especially since Brown has been our first and top target for this class.

I think it's very possible. By the time the 2017 class matriculates, Duke might not have Derryck Thornton, Grayson Allen, and Matt Jones around anymore. (100% on Jones since he'll graduate).

Trae Young also looks to me like a multi-year player while Brown and Trent are probably 1-and-done. There's not that much conflict/overlap between Young and the other offers, imo.

[devildeac]

Rachel Dolezal self-identifies as a junior. Among other things.

I'm still looking for the box with "curmudgeon" for me to check.

Try this:

5213

Makes a nice avatar, too, but that's just crazietalk;):o.

[Troublemaker]

DraftExpress put up scouting videos on Trent Jr and Carter Jr from the USA U16 camp.

It includes both good plays and bad plays.

Trent (first video on following page): http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gary-Trent-82914/

Carter (last video on following page): http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Wendell-Carter-83183/

[BluePanda]

I think it's very possible. By the time the 2017 class matriculates, Duke might not have Derryck Thornton, Grayson Allen, and Matt Jones around anymore. (100% on Jones since he'll graduate).

Trae Young also looks to me like a multi-year player while Brown and Trent are probably 1-and-done. There's not that much conflict/overlap between Young and the other offers, imo.

I can see that, and agree with both Grayson leaving early (probably before the 2016 class matriculates) and Young only conflicting with Troy Brown, but I think it all depends on what guard(s) we get for 2016. If Thornton is one and done, which I believe he wants to and can be given his potential, we'll need to recruit another 1 next year, which at this point looks like Dennis Smith Jr. or Frank Jackson.

If Thornton leaves after one year, I think we'll have a great shot at Smith because it seems like he wants both minutes and to play with Giles and possibly Tatum. Since Smith is likely to be a one year player, that would open up the possibility of both Brown and Young in 2017 with Brown as the starter and Young developing his game for later years, like you mentioned. However, if we get Jackson, who also looks to be a multi-year player, I would think Trae Young wouldn't want to come in 3rd in line for minutes at the 1 behind Brown and 2nd year Jackson.

Again, all this is wildly speculative since we're 2 years out and recruiting for 2016 can go many directions.

[English]

I can see that, and agree with both Grayson leaving early (probably before the 2016 class matriculates) and Young only conflicting with Troy Brown, but I think it all depends on what guard(s) we get for 2016. If Thornton is one and done, which I believe he wants to and can be given his potential, we'll need to recruit another 1 next year, which at this point looks like Dennis Smith Jr. or Frank Jackson.

...However, if we get Jackson, who also looks to be a multi-year player, I would think Trae Young wouldn't want to come in 3rd in line for minutes at the 1 behind Brown and 2nd year Jackson.

Recall that Frank Jackson will be taking his 2-year Mormon mission following his high school graduation, prior to matriculating (but not necessarily committing) to college.

[Troublemaker]

Recall that Frank Jackson will be taking his 2-year Mormon mission following his high school graduation, prior to matriculating (but not necessarily committing) to college.

Yes, there's the possibility of a mission and also, when watching Jackson's highlights on youtube, he seems like more of a SG than PG. At best, you could describe him as a "scoring PG," but I suspect if he chooses Duke, he would spend more time playing the 2 than the 1. Like how Quinn Cook moved off-the-ball this past season. Then, consider also that Trae Young can also play SG because he's a great shooter and also that Troy Brown is a PG that has the body of a wing and, at the very least, can play PG on offense and guard the wing on defense if needed. Bottom line, there's enough positional versatility there with these three prospects that if all received scholarship offers, I wouldn't consider it to be a logjam.

[jimsumner]

Recall that Frank Jackson will be taking his 2-year Mormon mission following his high school graduation, prior to matriculating (but not necessarily committing) to college.

Apparently, the timing of his mission is still undecided.

[English]

Apparently, the timing of his mission is still undecided.

I just saw a recent post on Zagsblog that mentioned coaches are recruiting Frank Jackson in both classes (2016 & 2018) now that the status of his mission is undecided. A few months ago, the official word in the recruiting media was that he would be taking his mission prior to college. Very interesting variable introduced, in case HS hoops recruiting wasn't unpredictable enough. I wonder if the Crystal Ball (TM) will now account for this little wrinkle.

"FRANK JACKSON PLANNING DUKE, OTHER VISITS

Frank Jackson, the No. 4 point guard in the Class of 2016 out of Lone Peak (UT) according to 247Sports.com, is planning a Mormon mission at some point and is being recruited in both the classes of 2016 and 2018, he told ESPN’s Jeff Borzello.

Meantime, Jackson told Borzello he will visit Duke on Monday and also plans to trip to North Carolina and Maryland while at the NBA Top 100 Camp."

Not pay-link: http://zagsblog.com/articles/nba-top-100-camp-notebook-day-1-miles-bridges-to-visit-kentucky-trevon-duval-says-iu-oregon-recruiting-the-hardest-frank-johnson-to-visit-duke-others/#more-136426

[Troublemaker]

Wait, hang on. (http://zagsblog.com/articles/at-usa-basketball-wendell-carter-jr-gary-trent-jr-talking-potential-package/)

That link has Wendell Carter talking about wanting to package with Gary Trent Jr.

This link has Gary Trent talking about wanting to package with Wendell Carter: http://usatodayhss.com/2015/gary-trent-jr-s-recruitment-is-beginning-to-heat-up

Excerpt:

“I’m very close with Tyus Jones,” Trent said. “He’s almost like a big brother, you might say. I’ve known him since he was in the eighth grade, since I was a little kid, so we have a pretty good relationship. We talked right after (the Duke offer). He tweeted at me and texted me congrats.”

Like Jones, who famously worked out a package deal with Jahlil Okafor to go to the same school, Trent wouldn’t mind having his own package deal with Pace Academy big man Wendell Carter Jr.

“He’s a great guy, we even talked about going to college in a few years,” Trent said. “He’s a force in the paint and he’s hard (for opponents) to deal with. You could really have a great opportunity of winning a national championship if he’s on your college team. In a sense, I could see a blueprint (from Jones) and how it worked for him.”

[Duke95]

Frank Jackson is coming to Duke on Monday. He is no longer going to visit CH, apparently.

[COYS]

Frank Jackson is coming to Duke on Monday. He is no longer going to visit CH, apparently.

Why anyone voluntarily goes to hell is beyond me :).

That said, to not even visit CH even though it's so close has got to be yet another indicator that the stink around the inevitable NCAA sanctions is keeping recruits away.

[Duvall]

Why anyone voluntarily goes to hell is beyond me :).

That said, to not even visit CH even though it's so close has got to be yet another indicator that the stink around the inevitable NCAA sanctions is keeping recruits away.

Though to be fair, Jackson is one of the few 2016 recruits that could evade any UNC sanctions by taking a two-year mission and following it with a redshirt season. By 2020 things at UNC should be getting back to normal.

[conmanlhughes]

Class of 2017 F/C Deandre Ayton has been offered, according to Scout. Widely regarded as the consensus No. 1 player in 2017.

[gumbomoop]

By 2020 things at UNC should be getting back to normal.

Good heavens, you think they might start a whole new athlete-eligibility scam?

[Duvall]

Good heavens, you think they might start a whole new athlete-eligibility scam?

Based on the lack of contrition UNC has shown over the last one, I'm sure one is already in place.

[rocketeli]

missions aren't mandatory (although strongly encouraged, for various reasons) and there are different kinds of missions-not all of them involve guys in white shirts and black ties riding bicycles around town talking about the Book of Mormon. Teaching disadvantaged kids basketball and life skills during your summers as a professional basketball player could be a mission. I would imagine, though, that a thoughtful and caring young man would not want to appear to be dissing a major tenet of his religion in public which might result in some mixed messages about his plans.

[duke blue brewcrew]

missions aren't mandatory (although strongly encouraged, for various reasons) and there are different kinds of missions-not all of them involve guys in white shirts and black ties riding bicycles around town talking about the Book of Mormon. Teaching disadvantaged kids basketball and life skills during your summers as a professional basketball player could be a mission. I would imagine, though, that a thoughtful and caring young man would not want to appear to be dissing a major tenet of his religion in public which might result in some mixed messages about his plans.

Isn't this the route that Jabari is taking as well?

[gam7]

Surprised this brief Porter Q&A (http://www.scout.com/college/duke/story/1556187-nba-top-100-porter-talks-duke-interest) hasn't been linked to. In sum, he spoke with Coach K at length earlier this week and was assured that he had an offer. He "really, really likes" Duke and says he watched almost every game last season. (If there were ever a Duke season that I would want an impressionable, talented basketball player to watch every game of, it would be last season.) And, he was/is considering joining Trae Young on his visit to Duke this weekend.

With so many top recruits in the mix in '16 and '17 and apparently reciprocal interest, I ask: how should Duke build construct its roster through recruiting in the current environment in college basketball? We know Calipari's answer, which is to get as many one-and-dones as possible each and every year, and hope to overwhelm the rest of the world with the talent. At the other end of the spectrum is Bo's no-rent-a-players approach. In recent times, the Duke approach has been somewhere in the middle: we have pretty consistently found one OAD or two a year who are really up Duke's alley culture-wise, and try to build a solid supporting cast with multi-year, lower-end McDonald's AAs and a strategic transfer.

Among those three approaches, I prefer the Duke approach. Bo's Way was probably borne of necessity. The Calipari approach would be fun from a recruiting perspective, no doubt, but Calipari's stated priorities for the program make it really distasteful to me. I take him at his word when he says that in effect, he is using the UK platform as a means to make his recruits' goals of becoming NBA players as quickly as possible come true, and he couldn't care less whether they win (except to the extent that it helps to recruit more NBA dreamers).

But Duke seems to be approaching a point where it could conceivably go down the Kentucky path if it chose to. It must be tempting for the coaching staff to want the absolute best talent available period. It should be very interesting to see how the staff chooses to construct the roster over the next few years.

[Troublemaker]

With so many top recruits in the mix in '16 and '17 and apparently reciprocal interest, I ask: how should Duke build construct its roster through recruiting in the current environment in college basketball? We know Calipari's answer, which is to get as many one-and-dones as possible each and every year, and hope to overwhelm the rest of the world with the talent. At the other end of the spectrum is Bo's no-rent-a-players approach. In recent times, the Duke approach has been somewhere in the middle: we have pretty consistently found one OAD or two a year who are really up Duke's alley culture-wise, and try to build a solid supporting cast with multi-year, lower-end McDonald's AAs and a strategic transfer.

Duke's 1-2 OAD/yr model, as you put it, gam7, is now a relic, I believe. Duke's recruiting has seemingly taken off to another level starting with the Jah/Tyus/Justise/Grayson class. With this incoming class, I THINK only Ingram will be OAD, but after this class, I would expect 2-4 OADs/yr to be a regular occurrence.

Also, eventually Coach K will reach an age where it's easier to recruit the OADs than the 4-year players. (My underlying assumption here is that 4-yr guys want to be guaranteed that their coach will coaching them all 4 years, but I could be wrong.)



The Calipari approach would be fun from a recruiting perspective, no doubt, but Calipari's stated priorities for the program make it really distasteful to me. I take him at his word when he says that in effect, he is using the UK platform as a means to make his recruits' goals of becoming NBA players as quickly as possible come true, and he couldn't care less whether they win (except to the extent that it helps to recruit more NBA dreamers).


Oh, you accord Cal too much respect, methinks. I think his goal is the same as all other coaches: to win the national championship. Everything else he says is a marketing strategy to sign enough great players to accomplish his goal.

Thanks for the link to Porter Jr's interview! Unless he has a really vivid imagination, looks like Duke has offered 4 "Jrs" now.

[gam7]

Duke's 1-2 OAD/yr model, as you put it, gam7, is now a relic, I believe. Duke's recruiting has seemingly taken off to another level starting with the Jah/Tyus/Justise/Grayson class. With this incoming class, I THINK only Ingram will be OAD, but after this class, I would expect 2-4 OADs/yr to be a regular occurrence.

My guess is that we are heading in this direction for the next few years.

Our 2014 class (Jah/Tyus/Justise/Grayson) ended up with 3 OADs, true, but I wouldn't have characterized Justise and Tyus as sure-fire OADs at the time they were recruited. I think the scrambling we saw after all 3 declared for the draft was some evidence that this wasn't necessarily what the staff counted on happening from the beginning. Perhaps the shift from the Rivers/Kyrie/Jabari years is a bit more subtle? It seemed as though there was a single, clear OAD player that we pursued in those years and that's it. The shift, beginning with the 2014 class, may be: 1 definite OAD, and 1-2 guys who are possible OADs who also fit in culture-wise. This description fits the 2015 class as well (Ingram/Thornton). But I agree that we seem to be heading in a direction of more sure-fire OADs.


Also, eventually Coach K will reach an age where it's easier to recruit the OADs than the 4-year players. (My underlying assumption here is that 4-yr guys want to be guaranteed that their coach will coaching them all 4 years, but I could be wrong.)

Very interesting point. I agree that the the OAD rule kind of pulls the plug on the "will you be here" risk for the best players. I don't think I'd go so far as to say it is easier to recruit OADs than 4-year guys (the challenges are different).


Thanks for the link to Porter Jr's interview! Unless he has a really vivid imagination, looks like Duke has offered 4 "Jrs" now.

Wow, that's right. Throw in Dennis Smith, Jr. and Harry Giles III from 2016 and Marvin Bagley III from 2018!

[Duke95]

Our 2014 class (Jah/Tyus/Justise/Grayson) ended up with 3 OADs, true, but I wouldn't have characterized Justise and Tyus as sure-fire OADs at the time they were recruited. I think the scrambling we saw after all 3 declared for the draft was some evidence that this wasn't necessarily what the staff counted on happening from the beginning. Perhaps the shift from the Rivers/Kyrie/Jabari years is a bit more subtle? It seemed as though there was a single, clear OAD player that we pursued in those years and that's it. The shift, beginning with the 2014 class, may be: 1 definite OAD, and 1-2 guys who are possible OADs who also fit in culture-wise. This description fits the 2015 class as well (Ingram/Thornton). But I agree that we seem to be heading in a direction of more sure-fire OADs.

Very interesting point. I agree that the the OAD rule kind of pulls the plug on the "will you be here" risk for the best players. I don't think I'd go so far as to say it is easier to recruit OADs than 4-year guys (the challenges are different).

Wow, that's right. Throw in Dennis Smith, Jr. and Harry Giles III from 2016 and Marvin Bagley III from 2018!

I'm not sure there is much mutual interest between Duke and Dennis Smith. Both sides seem to have moved on. It appears our top PG target for 2016 is Frank Jackson, who would be a huge addition to the team. The kid is a star. Visiting Duke tomorrow.

[roywhite]

Frank Jackson is coming to Duke on Monday. He is no longer going to visit CH, apparently.

Frank Jackson highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZMKbppMI0)

He's not big at 6'1" and may be as much of a scoring guard as a point guard, but he has game and serious hops.

Might be the type player who could pair with another PG, which worked great this past year with Tyus and Quinn.

We seem to be talking about him in the 2017 thread, where he could be 2016, or perhaps 2018, depending on taking a Mormon mission.

[devildeac]

Frank Jackson highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZMKbppMI0)

He's not big at 6'1" and may be as much of a scoring guard as a point guard, but he has game and serious hops.

Might be the type player who could pair with another PG, which worked great this past year with Tyus and Quinn.

We seem to be talking about him in the 2017 thread, where he could be 2016, or perhaps 2018, depending on taking a Mormon mission.

If he takes a Mormon mission, we might be talking about him in the 2020 MBB Recruiting Thread but my search feature doesn't yield any results for that. Yet:o.

[Henderson]

If he takes a Mormon mission, we might be talking about him in the 2020 MBB Recruiting Thread but my search feature doesn't yield any results for that. Yet:o.

Can't his mission be to bring another natty to Duke University?

If Jim Phelps were still around, he'd put Cinnamon on this, and everyone would be fine.

No mission is so impossible that it can't be de-impossiblized.

So he can show up when he wants.

[mr. synellinden]

Wendell Carter gets officially offered as well.


Wendell Carter Jr (https://twitter.com/wendellcarter34) retweeted


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/573066820699086848/pDBRd4Ph_bigger.jpegAndrew Slater ‏@ASlater247 (https://twitter.com/ASlater247) 3h3 hours ago (https://twitter.com/ASlater247/status/610934568229535746)
#Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash) has officially offered 6'10" Wendell Carter @wendellcarter34 (https://twitter.com/wendellcarter34) . Carter just won a gold medal with @usabasketball (https://twitter.com/usabasketball) at the FIBA Americas.


That makes 3 official so far in this class: Troy Brown Jr, Gary Trent Jr, Wendell Carter Jr

More to come I'm sure

Jeff Borzello tweeted a short while ago that Trae Young has received an offer.

[Duke95]

Frank Jackson highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tZMKbppMI0)

He's not big at 6'1" and may be as much of a scoring guard as a point guard, but he has game and serious hops.

Might be the type player who could pair with another PG, which worked great this past year with Tyus and Quinn.

We seem to be talking about him in the 2017 thread, where he could be 2016, or perhaps 2018, depending on taking a Mormon mission.

Frank Jackson is not 6'1 anymore. That must have been awhile ago. He's more 6'3-6'4 now.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Apparently his unofficial visit with his dad to the Duke campus went really well this weekend. It resulted in an offer:

http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Duke-Offers-2017-Point-Guard-Trae-Young-37867762

[Li_Duke]

Our 2014 class (Jah/Tyus/Justise/Grayson) ended up with 3 OADs, true, but I wouldn't have characterized Justise and Tyus as sure-fire OADs at the time they were recruited. I think the scrambling we saw after all 3 declared for the draft was some evidence that this wasn't necessarily what the staff counted on happening from the beginning. Perhaps the shift from the Rivers/Kyrie/Jabari years is a bit more subtle? It seemed as though there was a single, clear OAD player that we pursued in those years and that's it. The shift, beginning with the 2014 class, may be: 1 definite OAD, and 1-2 guys who are possible OADs who also fit in culture-wise. This description fits the 2015 class as well (Ingram/Thornton). But I agree that we seem to be heading in a direction of more sure-fire OADs.

Very interesting point. I agree that the the OAD rule kind of pulls the plug on the "will you be here" risk for the best players. I don't think I'd go so far as to say it is easier to recruit OADs than 4-year guys (the challenges are different).

I always felt Coach K's approach in recruiting was to get great players who he'd enjoy coaching that would fit into the Duke basketball culture and can handle Duke academics. That approach hasn't changed over the years, but the pro opportunities for young players has. The Killer Bs + Avery class today would consist of 2-3 guys expected to be OAD. The same would have been true of the Williams/Boozer/Sanders/Dunleavy class today. Since the pro opportunities for young players has ramped up, the challenge has become identifying and bringing in these monster classes more frequently to replace those leaving early. Luckily Coach K has been up to the challenge.

[jimsumner]

Duke is recruiting Jackson as a combo guard who could play alongside Thornton or Young or be the primary ball-handler, should circumstances dictate. Think Johnny Dawkins, Jeff Capel, Jason Williams, Jon Scheyer, Nolan Smith, Quinn Cook.

[Indoor66]

Duke is recruiting Jackson as a combo guard who could play alongside Thornton or Young or be the primary ball-handler, should circumstances dictate. Think Johnny Dawkins, Jeff Capel, Jason Williams, Jon Scheyer, Nolan Smith, Quinn Cook.

Sounds like reasonable company to me, Jim.:cool:

[duke blue brewcrew]

Duke is recruiting Jackson as a combo guard who could play alongside Thornton or Young or be the primary ball-handler, should circumstances dictate. Think Johnny Dawkins, Jeff Capel, Jason Williams, Jon Scheyer, Nolan Smith, Quinn Cook.

I was wondering about the offer of Young would impact Jackson. Good to know and thanks as always Jim.

[Duvall]

"Uh, what's that assistant over there?" (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2015/07/10/top-2017-recruit-loves-duke-cool-on-cats/29983541/)


One clear takeaway so far from this year's Peach Jam, the top college basketball recruiting event of the summer, is that defending national champion Duke is on a roll.

The Blue Devils are favorites to land both Harry Giles and Jayson Tatum, the No. 1 and No. 3 players in Scout.com's Class of 2016 rankings, and several other elite prospects here are singing Mike Krzyzewski's praises. To that point, John Calipari and Kentucky apparently have some work to do if they'd like to land Wendell Carter, Scout's No. 2 prospect in 2017.

"Probably Duke, I would say, is the very top school that's working the hardest," Carter said. "I hear from them every day."

[mr. synellinden]

DJ Harvey, a 6' 6" small forward from DeMatha tweeted tonight (https://twitter.com/TheRealDJHarvey/status/622573201839800320) that he's received an offer from Duke. He's ranked #17 by ESPN and #11 by Rivals.

**Edit: Just noticed this has already been posted in the July Recruiting thread.

[gocanes0506]

Carter jokingly mentioned talking to other 2017 guys for a package deal. Joking or not its good to have top recruits even mention that.

[roywhite]

Seeing a new name as a prospect for 2017 recruiting class

Trevon Duval is an athletic PG from Wilmington, Delaware

Duval highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7WovjAAGFk)

[Saratoga2]

Seeing a new name as a prospect for 2017 recruiting class

Trevon Duval is an athletic PG from Wilmington, Delaware

Duval highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7WovjAAGFk)

He certainly looks quick and athletic with a great handle and court awareness. I can see why there would be interest.

[TexHawk]

Surprised this brief Porter Q&A (http://www.scout.com/college/duke/story/1556187-nba-top-100-porter-talks-duke-interest) hasn't been linked to. In sum, he spoke with Coach K at length earlier this week and was assured that he had an offer. He "really, really likes" Duke and says he watched almost every game last season. (If there were ever a Duke season that I would want an impressionable, talented basketball player to watch every game of, it would be last season.) And, he was/is considering joining Trae Young on his visit to Duke this weekend.

Briefly on Porter... His dad coaches on the Missouri women's staff, and there is some insane local Columbia pressure to attend any school not named Kansas. They have given up hope on him going to Missouri, as that program continues their slide into non-existence. Most see it as KU vs Duke.

I (of course) hope that isn't true, because apparently Porter's 3 younger brothers project to be major talents too. (Yes, they go 13, 11, 7, so I'll pump the brakes on that a bit. At least with the 7 year old.)

[conmanlhughes]

Mohamed Bamba has received an offer. 6'10 center in 2017 with a 7'8 wingspan and range.

[BD80]

Mohamed Bamba has received an offer. 6'10 center in 2017 with a 7'8 wingspan and range.

Is that 7'8" wingspan AND 7'8" range?

Well, as long as he recognizes his limits.

[mattman91]

Mohamed Bamba has received an offer. 6'10 center in 2017 with a 7'8 wingspan and range.

Newb.

You didn't even post cinder block measurements :cool:

Thanks for the update. Sounds like an interesting prospect!

[Troublemaker]

Very excited about the Bamba offer. He's my second-favorite 2017 prospect, just behind Wendell Carter, so I've been waiting for this news, especially since Bamba himself has been very vocal asking for a Duke offer thru the media. 6'11", 7'8" wingspan, 9'5" reach. Yes please. That is Greek Freak level freakiness.

[devildeac]

Very excited about the Bamba offer. He's my second-favorite 2017 prospect, just behind Wendell Carter, so I've been waiting for this news, especially since Bamba himself has been very vocal asking for a Duke offer thru the media. 6'11", 7'8" wingspan, 9'5" reach. Yes please. That is Greek Freak level freakiness.

Sounds really interesting. Hope no bailout is required...

[ricks68]

Very excited about the Bamba offer. He's my second-favorite 2017 prospect, just behind Wendell Carter, so I've been waiting for this news, especially since Bamba himself has been very vocal asking for a Duke offer thru the media. 6'11", 7'8" wingspan, 9'5" reach. Yes please. That is Greek Freak level freakiness.

I can see some great nicknames and cheers coming with this prospect per Ritchie Valens.:rolleyes:

ricks

[Indoor66]

Very excited about the Bamba offer. He's my second-favorite 2017 prospect, just behind Wendell Carter, so I've been waiting for this news, especially since Bamba himself has been very vocal asking for a Duke offer thru the media. 6'11", 7'8" wingspan, 9'5" reach. Yes please. That is Greek Freak level freakiness.

In reading the link, it sounds like he is more of a KY lean. He sees himself fitting the Cali model for a Stretch 4.

[Troublemaker]

In reading the link, it sounds like he is more of a KY lean. He sees himself fitting the Cali model for a Stretch 4.

Well, when the news got out that Duke offered, there was an explosion of Bamba-to-Duke predictions on his Crystal Ball (http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Mohamed-Bamba-at-Westtown-School-131096/CurrentExpertPredictions), including airowe weighing in that way. I think we're in solid shape for now, but Kentucky on the recruiting trail is certainly a formidable opponent.

[MChambers]

In reading the link, it sounds like he is more of a KY lean. He sees himself fitting the Cali model for a Stretch 4.
Depends, I guess, on what you think a "Stretch 4" means. With a 9'5" reach, it sounds like he's pretty stretched out, but can he stretch defenses with an outside shot?

[BD80]

In reading the link, it sounds like he is more of a KY lean. He sees himself fitting the Cali model for a Stretch 4.

I think Kyle Wiltjer was calipari's last "stretch 4," at least as that term is used in the NBA. He was a "2 and through" at Ky, before transferring to Gonzaga.

[SilkyJ]

Depends, I guess, on what you think a "Stretch 4" means. With a 9'5" reach, it sounds like he's pretty stretched out, but can he stretch defenses with an outside shot?


I think Kyle Wiltjer was calipari's last "stretch 4," at least as that term is used in the NBA. He was a "2 and through" at Ky, before transferring to Gonzaga.

Anthony Davis could be considered a stretch 4 and is perhaps a better example here. It certainly does depend on your definition of a stretch 4, but Anthony Davis is arguably a stretch 4 at this point in the NBA. He spends a good deal of time at the 4 (Omer Asik is their starting center), though he plays some 5 too.

Taking the same example further, Anthony was a center/5 in college, rarely playing the PF spot. We know this happens all the time, guys sliding down a slot once they get to the NBA. Winslow played the 4 here in college, but will spend all his time at the 3 or 2 spot in the NBA. Bamba would almost certainly be a center anywhere he goes in college, but could easily be a stretch 4 in the pros...especially if his frame stays as alarmingly Ingram-ish as it is today :p:cool:

Here's a recent highlight video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwYASQ9P_lQ) of him from the NBA top 100 camp. Couple examples of him knocking down a J and the form looks very solid. Though it seems the thing he's best at stretching is those long arms and the rim when he's slamming it!

[BD80]

Anthony Davis could be considered a stretch 4 and is perhaps a better example here. It certainly does depend on your definition of a stretch 4, but Anthony Davis is arguably a stretch 4 at this point in the NBA. He spends a good deal of time at the 4 (Omer Asik is their starting center), though he plays some 5 too.

Taking the same example further, Anthony was a center/5 in college, rarely playing the PF spot. We know this happens all the time, guys sliding down a slot once they get to the NBA. Winslow played the 4 here in college, but will spend all his time at the 3 or 2 spot in the NBA. Bamba would almost certainly be a center anywhere he goes in college, but could easily be a stretch 4 in the pros...especially if his frame stays as alarmingly Ingram-ish as it is today :p:cool:

Here's a recent highlight video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwYASQ9P_lQ) of him from the NBA top 100 camp. Couple examples of him knocking down a J and the form looks very solid. Though it seems the thing he's best at stretching is those long arms and the rim when he's slamming it!

The "stretch" refers to stretching opposing defenses with an outside shot. Not an elbow jumper like the classic "4" Karl Malone, but a true outside shot that pulls a defensive big out of the lane. I haven't watch Davis as a pro, but he sure as heck wasn't a "stretch" anything at Ky.

[English]

The "stretch" refers to stretching opposing defenses with an outside shot. Not an elbow jumper like the classic "4" Karl Malone, but a true outside shot that pulls a defensive big out of the lane. I haven't watch Davis as a pro, but he sure as heck wasn't a "stretch" anything at Ky.

Yeah, it's a bit bizarre--I saw the ZagsBlog article on Bamba's Duke offer and the subsequent mention of his fit in Cal's "Stretch 4," and the examples Bamba mentions when discussing his comps in the UK system were Julius Randle (not a Stretch 4) and Dakari Johnson (DEFINITELY NOT a Stretch 4). So, perhaps young Mr. Bamba is a bit murky on what the "stretch" refers to in the term Stretch 4.

[SilkyJ]

The "stretch" refers to stretching opposing defenses with an outside shot. Not an elbow jumper like the classic "4" Karl Malone, but a true outside shot that pulls a defensive big out of the lane. I haven't watch Davis as a pro, but he sure as heck wasn't a "stretch" anything at Ky.

Yep, I know what the "stretch" part of stretch 4 or stretch 5 means. Davis always had a bit of perimeter in his game, but in college he was used exclusively on the inside. He was a 6'2/6'3 guard in HS and grew into a forward/center (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5894839). So he had those skills, but with that frame, length and athleticism it made more sense to keep him on the inside at KY. Similar to what Calipari did with KAT this past year.

Anthony has developed his stretch capabilities tremendously (http://www.businessinsider.com/anthony-davis-shooting-stats-2015-4) and is adding a 3 point shot to his arsenal (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/25/sports/basketball/pelicans-anthony-davis-considers-adding-a-3-to-his-arsenal.html). This past year was a big leap for him offensively in terms of refining his jumper, which is why I brought up the comparison as I thought it was timely. I think its definitely fair to call him a stretch 4/5 at this point, or maybe a stretch 4 in progress, but he's not Dirk yet.

Anywho, I guess my point was that while Bamba has some stretch capabilities and made a comment about being a "stretch 4," and seeing other "stretch 4s at KY" I think he may have been thinking about those guys eventual position in the NBA. He/we should probably think of him as a 5 in college but maybe a stretch 4 in the NBA. I could easily see us using him as a traditional 5 in college, but if/when he got to the NBA he might become more of a true stretch 4 as he refined those capabilities...which is what's happening with A-Davis, and potentially KAT. In college when you have a guy of that size you put them inside and leave them there b/c that's what the team needs. In the NBA where there's more size to go around, you can afford to let them float outside more. This is exactly what's happening with Davis.

[SilkyJ]

Yeah, it's a bit bizarre--I saw the ZagsBlog article on Bamba's Duke offer and the subsequent mention of his fit in Cal's "Stretch 4," and the examples Bamba mentions when discussing his comps in the UK system were Julius Randle (not a Stretch 4) and Dakari Johnson (DEFINITELY NOT a Stretch 4). So, perhaps young Mr. Bamba is a bit murky on what the "stretch" refers to in the term Stretch 4.

I believe that was the author's choice of comps, not Bamba's, if you re-read the article. But I agree, not really the right comps. In fact, they made no sense to me.

[conmanlhughes]

I like our odds when Andrew Slater puts in his thoughts on a recruit in the Crystal Ball. Just picked Duke for Bamba.

[Olympic Fan]

I'm a little baffled by all the talk in this thread about "Calipari's stretch four". When I first saw it, I thought everybody was being sarcastic.

I always thought the "stretch four" was a position that Krzyzewski popularized a long, long time again (popularized, not invented)

Mark Alarie, who played at Duke from 1982-83 to 1985-86 was a classic stretch four -- a powerful 6-8 forward (he played alongside Bilas, who played the middle), who could score inside and out. He was first-team All-ACC twice and finished with 2,136 points -- at the time third behind just his teammate Johnny Dawkins and Mike Gminski in Duke history.

He was followed by Danny Ferry, who clearly defined the inside/out nature of a stretch four.

Christian Laettner might have been a "stretch five" although he played forward in 1990 (with Alaa in the middle). The other three years, he was Duke's center, although his 3-point accuracy attests to his inside outside game-- 48.5 percent on 163 career attempts.

I think Roshown McLeod and Shane Battier carried on the stretch four tradition. Kyle Singler certainly fit. Ryan Kelly was a classic stretch four ... I wouldn't call Justise a "classic" stretch four, but when he played the four, he certainly was an inside-out player. Jabari played that role ... if Brandon Ingram ends up playing the four, he would fit. If Duke signs Harry Giles, I think that's what you'd see from him.

I can't really think of a stretch four that Calipari has used effectively at Kentucky. Not Patrick Patterson. Not, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (good, even very good players, but not stretch fours). I guess Wiltjer qualifies, but he got squeezed out and transferred. Not last year, when he used Cauley-Stein and Towns as a tandem. I think Alex Poythress has potential as I stretch four, but last year, Calipari (mis-)used him as a three. Maybe this year he gets to play the stretch four.

[Duvall]

I can't really think of a stretch four that Calipari has used effectively at Kentucky. Not Patrick Patterson. Not, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (good, even very good players, but not stretch fours). I guess Wiltjer qualifies, but he got squeezed out and transferred. Not last year, when he used Cauley-Stein and Towns as a tandem. I think Alex Poythress has potential as I stretch four, but last year, Calipari (mis-)used him as a three. Maybe this year he gets to play the stretch four.

Terrence Jones?

It doesn't seem that Calipari is averse to using a stretch-four, but it doesn't appear to be a staple of their system.

[SilkyJ]

I'm a little baffled by all the talk in this thread about "Calipari's stretch four". When I first saw it, I thought everybody was being sarcastic.

Well, Bamba said it, which precipitated the discussion here, and I don't think he was being sarcastic. That said, I agree that it seems like a weird comment. A) there aren't any good comps for it really at UK, and B) the comps the author proceeds to point out aren't stretch 4s...

If he wants good comps, he need only read your post :)

[JasonEvans]

If he wants good comps, he need only read your post :)

I swear, if more recruits would only read the DBR forum, we'd really be killing it in recruiting.

Of course, we are really killing it already so maybe they are reading. Hey, Wendel and Bamba... come on down!!

-Jason "Duke recruiting, it's FANTASTIC!" Evans

[Duke3517]

The question is can these top line recruits fit into Coach K's system? Last season they certainly did. These recruits are coming in with tremendous offensive skills but sometimes lack on defense. Hopefully they can learn Coach K's defense quickly.

[English]

I'm a little baffled by all the talk in this thread about "Calipari's stretch four". When I first saw it, I thought everybody was being sarcastic.

As Silky mentioned, I believe this would be shooting the messenger. We're all in simultaneous bafflement about the concept of "Calipari's stretch-4," which actually appears a lot like a legit 5. The concept was mentioned by Bamba and the author ran with it (and then cited two examples of players who, at UK, played exclusively in the post).

With all the 4/5 talent that has come through UK in the past few years since Cal arrived, I cannot think of a single stretch-4 example that he's really maximized. Again, someone already mentioned Wiltjer, who he squeezed out, and Poythress, who he seemingly incorrectly insists is a 3 even through he lacks the quickness or range to play the position. Terrence Jones was a pretty prototypical 4 at UK...he might have had a decent mid-range game, but he certainly didn't stretch the defense out to the perimeter. Perhaps Bamba would be the first, although let's hope not.

Certainly this wouldn't be the first time a recruit got an [wrong] idea about a program during the recruiting process and ran with it (cough...only setting screens and rebounding...cough).

[Duke95]

My dream 2017 class would be:

Bagley (assuming that he reclassifies)
Bamba
Carter
Duval
Trent

Of course, that's a bit of a dream, but you know the saying, go big or go home.

[Henderson]

My dream 2017 class would be:

Bagley (assuming that he reclassifies)
Bamba
Carter
Duval
Trent

Of course, that's a bit of a dream, but you know the saying, go big or go home.

THAT's your dream?! That's going BIG?!

Dude, a dream class has to involve a gorgeous young woman who keeps dropping cash and complaining that she's having trouble keeping her top up.

Otherwise, what's the point of sleeping? Or the offseason?

[flyingdutchdevil]

THAT's your dream?! That's going BIG?!

Dude, a dream class has to involve a gorgeous young woman who keeps dropping cash and complaining that she's having trouble keeping her top up.

Otherwise, what's the point of sleeping? Or the offseason?

We have officially hit the offseason with this post.

[-jk]

We have officially hit the offseason with this post.

Alas... (And not quite August.)

-jk

[BD80]

We have officially hit the offseason with this post.

But we haven't yet hit bottom.

Or do I sense a challenge?

[Indoor66]

But we haven't yet hit bottom.

Or do I sense a challenge?

Nah, the Germans haven't bombed Pearl Harbor yet.

[superdave]

But we haven't yet hit bottom.

Or do I sense a challenge?

Let's re-open the thread with the attractive young lady holding up the Marry Me JJ poster!

[mr. synellinden]

Evan Daniels is reporting that Gary Trent is taking an unofficial visit to UCLA:
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1570130-ucla-to-host-two-underclassmen-for-visits

[Henderson]

Evan Daniels is reporting that Gary Trent is taking an unofficial visit to UCLA:
http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1570130-ucla-to-host-two-underclassmen-for-visits

That's not what Evan Daniels says in the clip you've linked. He says a couple guys from the recent Adidas event in Long Beach this weekend are going to stay over to visit UCLA before going home and that Gary Trent "may slide over there as well."

[Duvall]

That's not what Evan Daniels says in the clip you've linked. He says a couple guys from the recent Adidas event in Long Beach this weekend are going to stay over to visit UCLA before going home and that Gary Trent "may slide over there as well."

In any event, Gary Trent, Jr. is reporting that Gary Trent, Jr. did visit UCLA. (https://twitter.com/THAT_KID_GARY/status/628672375836405760)

[Henderson]

In any event, Gary Trent, Jr. is reporting that Gary Trent, Jr. did visit UCLA. (https://twitter.com/THAT_KID_GARY/status/628672375836405760)

Well, he was in town. It's not like he planned a trip from Apple Valley just to visit UCLA. And he picked up an offer for his effort. Good for him.

[Duke95]

Smart move for Trent.

Still coming to Duke though.

[mr. synellinden]

That's not what Evan Daniels says in the clip you've linked. He says a couple guys from the recent Adidas event in Long Beach this weekend are going to stay over to visit UCLA before going home and that Gary Trent "may slide over there as well."

It's a moot point now since we've heard it from the horse's mouth, or tweet. But in that link I posted you have to read toward the end where there is an update reporting Trent's unofficial visit to UCLA. I didn't just make it up.

[BD80]

Michael Porter Cuts List to 10

https://twitter.com/m1chael_porter/status/629073071073144832/photo/1

Duke is the first one listed - sort of.

[Duke95]

Michael Porter Cuts List to 10

https://twitter.com/m1chael_porter/status/629073071073144832/photo/1

Duke is the first one listed - sort of.

Uphill fight for Duke.

[bob blue devil]

Michael Porter Cuts List to 10

https://twitter.com/m1chael_porter/status/629073071073144832/photo/1

Duke is the first one listed - sort of.

the hidden meanings here are quite obvious -
his head says mizzou, but
washington has his back,
kentucky is closest to his heart, but
virginia has really supported him, and
he thinks he'll have the best run with kansas

[Henderson]

Airowe tweeted today that Duke is likely to make Austin Wiley's cut from 13 to 8. I wasn't aware that Duke was recruiting him. But a 16 year old high school junior who is 6-9, 240 sounds interesting. Top 20 recruit, depending on whom you ask.

[Furniture]

Duke seems to be really making a lot of offers lately. Is it a sign of the times in that K knows that a lot of these kids aren't going to stick around. I bet it's in stark contrast to just a few years ago when Duke had a lot of 3 or 4 year guys. Just because of that fact it has to change the number of offers you put out there.

[conmanlhughes]

Airowe tweeted today that Duke is likely to make Austin Wiley's cut from 13 to 8. I wasn't aware that Duke was recruiting him. But a 16 year old high school junior who is 6-9, 240 sounds interesting. Top 20 recruit, depending on whom you ask.

Most people believe he is a big Auburn lean.

[BD80]

Most people believe he is a big Auburn lean.

But form < substance

[budwom]

Duke seems to be really making a lot of offers lately. Is it a sign of the times in that K knows that a lot of these kids aren't going to stick around. I bet it's in stark contrast to just a few years ago when Duke had a lot of 3 or 4 year guys. Just because of that fact it has to change the number of offers you put out there.

I think it should be noted that we recruit a lot of guys to whom we have not yet made offers. This is not unusual...

[Duke95]

Duke seems to be really making a lot of offers lately. Is it a sign of the times in that K knows that a lot of these kids aren't going to stick around. I bet it's in stark contrast to just a few years ago when Duke had a lot of 3 or 4 year guys. Just because of that fact it has to change the number of offers you put out there.

Duke has made the fewest offers to the 2016 class out of anyone in the ACC. I think we have 9.
UNC has something like 20-22 offers out.

[sagegrouse]

I think it should be noted that we recruit a lot of guys to whom we have not yet made offers. This is not unusual...

Yes, the other way around would be unusual. Sort of like that old country song, written by Brent Rowan, "I'll Fall in Love with Anyone Who Falls in Love with Me."

[Henderson]

Duke has made the fewest offers to the 2016 class out of anyone in the ACC. I think we have 9.
UNC has something like 20-22 offers out.

Ugly guys have to hit on more women to score.

[itshoopsbabee]

Ugly guys have to hit on more women to score.

Who knew Donald Trump posts here? :)

[Henderson]

Who knew Donald Trump posts here? :)

Think about the UNC/Trump parallel: Both have a bad dome that tries to look pretty and gets lots of media attention, but covers for a lot of documented misbehavior.

[-bdbd]

Think about the UNC/Trump parallel: Both have a bad dome that tries to look pretty and gets lots of media attention, but covers for a lot of documented misbehavior.

And both are well known for making false claims of past accomplishments...:confused:

[budwom]

Duke has made the fewest offers to the 2016 class out of anyone in the ACC. I think we have 9.
UNC has something like 20-22 offers out.

And some of our offers I believe you could say are conditional....I think we are well short of nine genuine offers.
Off the top of my head I'd say we have five genuine offers out there and a couple of quasi offers.

[Bluedog]

Duke seems to be really making a lot of offers lately. Is it a sign of the times in that K knows that a lot of these kids aren't going to stick around. I bet it's in stark contrast to just a few years ago when Duke had a lot of 3 or 4 year guys. Just because of that fact it has to change the number of offers you put out there.


Duke has made the fewest offers to the 2016 class out of anyone in the ACC. I think we have 9.
UNC has something like 20-22 offers out.

If you want to see a lot of offers, check out Kansas.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/kansas
23 open offers to the class of 2016 and 19 to the class of 2017.

UNC has 18 and Duke has 8 open offers to class of 2016 incidentally. The landscape has changed although Kansas has offered a ton of guys each year for quite some time. Check out the stark contrast of guys that have gone pro... wow! UNC just has Tokoto carrying the torch who went second round and without Roy's blessing. Duke has a fair amount of gray going on (although four of them are transfers/dismissals).

http://verbalcommits.com/schools/duke
http://verbalcommits.com/schools/north-carolina

[Henderson]

And some of our offers I believe you could say are conditional....I think we are well short of nine genuine offers.
Off the top of my head I'd say we have five genuine offers out there and a couple of quasi offers.

Can you expand on this, because I don't understand? What is a conditional offer conditional upon? And what is a quasi offer? Do we know which offerees have conditional offers and what those conditions are? Some guys have "genuine offers" and others have "quasi offers"? I'll concede ignorance and just ask, what?

[yancem]

Can you expand on this, because I don't understand? What is a conditional offer conditional upon? And what is a quasi offer? Do we know which offerees have conditional offers and what those conditions are? Some guys have "genuine offers" and others have "quasi offers"? I'll concede ignorance and just ask, what?

I heard people talk about "firm committable" vs "conditional" offers in the past. It is somewhat confusing but I will try to explain my understanding. Apparently only K can give a true "committable" offer and he only is willing to do so if he has seen the player in person. So if a/the assistant(s) have been recruiting a player and Duke has a lot of interest, said assistant(s) may tell a recruit that Duke will make him an offer but he will have to wait until K can get a chance to watch him play or talk to the player personally. Also, if there are some questions about academics, a player may have an offer based on clearing those questions. Lastly in the case that Duke is recruiting multiple players of the same position, an offer may be a first come first serve kind of thing. Also, in some instances it seems like some players are occasionally confused about whether or not they have an official offer or not. I'm not sure why/how this happens but I have seen several times where a player says he has an offer only to hear a day or two later that while Duke is very interested in said player, he doesn't actually have an offer.

Not sure if that clears anything up or just begs more questions but this is what I believe was meant by "quasi offers"

[budwom]

There are some "offers" out there which can't necessarily be exercised. Without getting into the current situation too much, a good example would be the past recruitment of Tokoto, whom Duke
offered very early, I think when he was a HS soph. Subsequently Duke lost interest, but I am not aware that anyone had to actually rescind the offer. It just sort of died on the vine.

As mentioned above, some very much depend upon whether other kids accept an offer. Duke very much wants Frank Jackson. If he commits, I think you will see at least one current "offer" fade away.

Leaf had an offer before committing to Arizona...is Duke still interested? Not if Giles commits, but if he disappoints us and goes elsewhere, perhaps interest in Leaf will be rekindled.

Giles, Gabriel and Jackson are all guys (oh yeah, add in Bolden) who could call K today and commit. Duke may continue interest in some other guys, but they aren't in the Giles et al category.


Obviously to some extent this is true for all teams. Ol Roy has a couple dozen offers on the table, but even using unc mathematical powers, I don't see how he could actually accept that many commits.

[Indoor66]

There are some "offers" out there which can't necessarily be exercised. Without getting into the current situation too much, a good example would be the past recruitment of Tokoto, whom Duke
offered very early, I think when he was a HS soph. Subsequently Duke lost interest, but I am not aware that anyone had to actually rescind the offer. It just sort of died on the vine.

As mentioned above, some very much depend upon whether other kids accept an offer. Duke very much wants Frank Jackson. If he commits, I think you will see at least one current "offer" fade away.

Leaf had an offer before committing to Arizona...is Duke still interested? Not if Giles commits, but if he disappoints us and goes elsewhere, perhaps interest in Leaf will be rekindled.

Giles, Gabriel and Jackson are all guys (oh yeah, add in Bolden) who could call K today and commit. Duke may continue interest in some other guys, but they aren't in the Giles et al category.


Obviously to some extent this is true for all teams. Ol Roy has a couple dozen offerse table, but even using unc mathematical powers, I don't see how he could actually accept that many commits.

After the NCAA gets done, uncheat may not be able to accept any! BaDaBoom!!!!! :cool:

[gam7]

ESPN 60 Updated (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2017)

Rankings of note:

2. Carter
3. Porter Jr.
4. Duval
8. Bamba
9. Trent Jr.
12. Harvey Jr.
14. Brown Jr.
25. Young

[BluePanda]

ESPN 60 Updated (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2017)

Rankings of note:

2. Carter
3. Porter Jr.
4. Duval
8. Bamba
9. Trent Jr.
12. Harvey Jr.
14. Brown Jr.
25. Young

I think we have a good/great chance with Carter/Bamba, decent chance with Duval and Trent Jr, lower with the rest.

A 2017 starting lineup with Frank Jackson (or Duval or Young), Kennard/Trent Jr, Gabriel, Carter, Bamba would be awesome.

[Pghdukie]

Rivals is reporting that Mohammed Bamba stopped at Duke and Wake this weekend. I'm curious is he and Jackson had any contact.

[Native]

2016 PG Frank Jackson is set to announce his decision tomorrow. (http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1580775-five-star-frank-jackson-is-ready-to-announce?s=167)

Good times.

[jimsumner]

2016 PG Frank Jackson is set to announce his decision tomorrow. (http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1580775-five-star-frank-jackson-is-ready-to-announce?s=167)

Good times.

Jackson is in the class of 2016. FWIW.

[Native]

Jackson is in the class of 2016. FWIW.

Oh, crap. Wrong thread. :eek:

[Pghdukie]

Rumor around has D.J.Harvey visiting all 3 Triangle schools this weekend.

[Duke95]

Rumor around has D.J.Harvey visiting all 3 Triangle schools this weekend.

Yep. Looks like a 'Zona kid at this point though.

[BD80]

Yep. Looks like a 'Zona kid at this point though.

Wouldn't mind, as long as it's Zona State (aka ASU)

[Duke95]

Wouldn't mind, as long as it's Zona State (aka ASU)

No. Arizona.

[BluePanda]

http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/topic/players?type=players&category=Basketball%20Recruiting&classYear=2017&minimumInterest=Low

Noteworthy:

#2 Wendell Carter
#3 Trevon Duval
#4 Michael Porter (although I think we're more in on Harvey now?)
#5 Mohamed Bamba
#9 D.J. Harvey
#14 Gary Trent
...
#22 Jalek Felton, almost falling out of 5* range
...
Trae Young, still not a 5*

Would really love a class of Duval, Carter, Bamba. Trent and Harvey would be awesome as well, but I think those positions will be less in need.

[DavidBenAkiva]

In case you missed it, 2017 #1 (at least according to 247 Sports (http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighScho ol)) Wendell Carter made another stop at Cameron Indoor Stadium to take in the Duke Blue Devils. Carter, along with his best bud Gary Trent, Jr., were at Countdown to Craziness less than a month ago. I believe that Carter would have had to pay for his own travel and accommodations for this trip. If so, that's a pretty solid indication that Carter is a big fan of Coach K and the Blue Devils.

The Cameron Crazies were naturally pretty happy to see Carter (https://twitter.com/Bluedevilsreign/status/665722790029340672).

[Olympic Fan]

In case you missed it, 2017 #1 (at least according to 247 Sports (http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighScho ol)) Wendell Carter made another stop at Cameron Indoor Stadium to take in the Duke Blue Devils. Carter, along with his best bud Gary Trent, Jr., were at Countdown to Craziness less than a month ago. I believe that Carter would have had to pay for his own travel and accommodations for this trip. If so, that's a pretty solid indication that Carter is a big fan of Coach K and the Blue Devils.

The Cameron Crazies were naturally pretty happy to see Carter (https://twitter.com/Bluedevilsreign/status/665722790029340672).


I know it's a small sample size ... but has any recruit visited Cameron, crossed he court to sit with the Crazies then NOT ultimately signed with Duke?

The first to do it (as I remember) were Luke Kennard and Chase Jeter at the 2014 Duke-UNC game. Both were prep juniors at the time and both committed to Duke over the summer.

Harry Giles did it recently ... and he signed.

Wendell Carter (great hair BTW) crossed the court Saturday night and had a big smile on his face as he joined the Crazies.

Not saying lock or anything, but I have to see it as a very good sign.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I know it's a small sample size ... but has any recruit visited Cameron, crossed he court to sit with the Crazies then NOT ultimately signed with Duke?

The first to do it (as I remember) were Luke Kennard and Chase Jeter at the 2014 Duke-UNC game. Both were prep juniors at the time and both committed to Duke over the summer.

Harry Giles did it recently ... and he signed.

Wendell Carter (great hair BTW) crossed the court Saturday night and had a big smile on his face as he joined the Crazies.

Not saying lock or anything, but I have to see it as a very good sign.

Myles Turner, for one (https://twitter.com/CLykinsBlog/status/442506857857298433). Turner may have been the only to sit with the Crazies and not commit.

[ricks68]

He better be coming to Duke, as he signed my hat before the football game on Saturday. (Not one of the 63 signatures on my hat is not affiliated with Duke in some way.)

ricks

[Dev11]

I know it's a small sample size ... but has any recruit visited Cameron, crossed he court to sit with the Crazies then NOT ultimately signed with Duke?

So how many minutes will Chucky Okafor get next season? I'm worried he's a tweener.

[reversethepolarity]

Trae Young has released his top 11 schools

http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1618315-trae-young-has-list-11-schools

[ChillinDuke]

Trae Young has released his top 11 schools, and we're among them.

http://www.scout.com/college/basketball/recruiting/story/1618315-trae-young-has-list-11-schools

FIFY...

- Chillin

[Ichabod Drain]

In case you missed it, 2017 #1 (at least according to 247 Sports (http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighScho ol)) Wendell Carter made another stop at Cameron Indoor Stadium to take in the Duke Blue Devils. Carter, along with his best bud Gary Trent, Jr., were at Countdown to Craziness less than a month ago. I believe that Carter would have had to pay for his own travel and accommodations for this trip. If so, that's a pretty solid indication that Carter is a big fan of Coach K and the Blue Devils.

The Cameron Crazies were naturally pretty happy to see Carter (https://twitter.com/Bluedevilsreign/status/665722790029340672).

Capel was at Pace Academy in Atlanta last night to watch Carter. Can't say enough how much I think Capel has helped in our recruiting since he got here. Hopefully he's building another strong relationship with Carter.

[Troublemaker]

Pat Lawless ‏@PatLawless_ (https://twitter.com/PatLawless_) 7m7 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/PatLawless_/status/675502856728891392)
Kevin Knox II had 34 points, 7 rebounds and went 14-18 from the field for Tampa Catholic (FL) tonight in front of the Duke Basketball Staff.


Lynden Ostrander ‏@lynden_o (https://twitter.com/lynden_o) 54m54 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/lynden_o/status/675490883324743685)
Close source just told me Coach K turned to assistant Jeff Capel&said "He (Kevin Knox) reminds me of a young Grant Hill."Pretty high praise.

[Pghdukie]

Per Evan Daniels, Kevin Knox has set up unofficial visits to Duke on Feb 12 and will attend the Virginia game the 13th. He will also be visiting the Cheats the same weekend

[SkyBrickey]

Great article on Wendell Carter - http://www.myajc.com/news/sports/basketball/wendell-carter-jr/nqF7m/

Anthony Davis or Jabari Parker? A mix of both sounds good to me.

[Pghdukie]

Where their any recruiting prospects at the Virginia game ?

[Pghdukie]

Has anyone heard the latest scoop on Gary Trent,Jr. He seems to have disappeared from the radar screen ?

[jimsumner]

Has anyone heard the latest scoop on Gary Trent,Jr. He seems to have disappeared from the radar screen ?

He's very much still a priority.

[Henderson]

6'8" 5 star SF recruit, Kevin Knox, reportedly will be attending the Duke-UNC-CH game on March 5. He's a top-10 guy from Tampa and is (according to 247) a Florida State lean. The cheaters are recruiting him too.

[BD80]

6'8" 5 star SF recruit, Kevin Knox, reportedly will be attending the Duke-UNC-CH game on March 5. He's a top-10 guy from Tampa and is (according to 247) a Florida State lean. The cheaters are recruiting him too.

For that one day, can we rename the area outside Cameron "Knoxville?"

[brevity]

6'8" 5 star SF recruit, Kevin Knox, reportedly will be attending the Duke-UNC-CH game on March 5. He's a top-10 guy from Tampa and is (according to 247) a Florida State lean. The cheaters are recruiting him too.

A Florida State lean? So, the opposite of Nigel Dixon (http://www.seminoles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=32900&ATCLID=209569338)? ("Mmmm, Dwayne Bacon.")

[devildeac]

For that one day, can we rename the area outside Cameron "Knoxville?"

And if he commits to Duke with that ploy, will we be able to say we struck gold?

[Henderson]

For that one day, can we rename the area outside Cameron "Knoxville?"


A Florida State lean? So, the opposite of Nigel Dixon (http://www.seminoles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=32900&ATCLID=209569338)? ("Mmmm, Dwayne Bacon.")


And if he commits to Duke with that ploy, will we be able to say we struck gold?

Oh boy, it's gonna be a loooooong off-season at DBR.

[English]

6'8" 5 star SF recruit, Kevin Knox, reportedly will be attending the Duke-UNC-CH game on March 5. He's a top-10 guy from Tampa and is (according to 247) a Florida State lean. The cheaters are recruiting him too.

Kevin Knox was also in Cameron for the Grayson Allen buzzer beater vs. UVa. He's quoted as saying that, when Allen made that shot, Cameron was so loud that his ears actually popped. A good impression, from when I'm standing.

[NSDukeFan]

Kevin Knox was also in Cameron for the Grayson Allen buzzer beater vs. UVa. He's quoted as saying that, when Allen made that shot, Cameron was so loud that his ears actually popped. A good impression, from when I'm standing.

As long as it wasn't any of the bones in or around his feet.

[jimsumner]

6'8" 5 star SF recruit, Kevin Knox, reportedly will be attending the Duke-UNC-CH game on March 5. He's a top-10 guy from Tampa and is (according to 247) a Florida State lean. The cheaters are recruiting him too.

Knox may have been a Florida State lean before Duke got all in. But K is prioritizing Knox and his track record on guys he prioritizes is pretty good.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Knox may have been a Florida State lean before Duke got all in. But K is prioritizing Knox and his track record on guys he prioritizes is pretty good.

Is Jeff Capel the lead recruiter? If so, bag him!!!!

'Capel - so hot right now'

[BD80]

... 'Capel - so hot right now'

Make a dragon wanna retire, Man

[SilkyJ]

Is Jeff Capel the lead recruiter? If so, bag him!!!!

'Capel - so hot right now'

Nate James is the lead recruiter, according to 247 (http://247sports.com/Player/Kevin-Knox-81398)

They also list Roy as his lead recruiter for UNC, so that bodes well...for UNC NOT getting him. Is Roy still batting zero on top recruits lately? I know he'd been in a drought for ~2 years.

edit: I see he got Tony Bradley from this year's class, which I think is his only top 25 recruit in the last 2 years?

[BD80]

... I see [ol' roy] got Tony Bradley from this year's class, which I think is his only top 25 recruit in the last 2 years?

Well dadgummit, even a blind squirrel can find an acorn every now and again!

Bless his little heart ...

[NSDukeFan]

Nate James is the lead recruiter, according to 247 (http://247sports.com/Player/Kevin-Knox-81398)

They also list Roy as his lead recruiter for UNC, so that bodes well...for UNC NOT getting him. Is Roy still batting zero on top recruits lately? I know he'd been in a drought for ~2 years.

edit: I see he got Tony Bradley from this year's class, which I think is his only top 25 recruit in the last 2 years?

For some reason the quarter century cheating, athletic, academic scandal and all the lying and hiding and not being forthcoming has led to a drawn out NCAA investigation that has made it harder for poor ol Roy to look kids and their parents in the eye, oops I mean, made it harder to recruit.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Well dadgummit, even a blind squirrel can find an acorn every now and again!

Bless his little heart ...
Did you say "a corn"?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4JieHmC9DH8

[fraggler]

So with Thornton transferring, we will need a new PG for 2017, are there any updates on our 2017 targets (did we back off? still looking? favorites?).

[Blue KevIL]

Did you say "a corn"?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4JieHmC9DH8

An example of Hans-blah-blah-blah putting his UNCheat degree on display.
Not a fan of Boers & Bernstein, but this was an all-time classic.

[DavidBenAkiva]

So with Thornton transferring, we will need a new PG for 2017, are there any updates on our 2017 targets (did we back off? still looking? favorites?).

I was sincerely hoping that Thornton would stick around for 2016-17 and beyond. I am bummed. Duke is for sure losing Matt Jones and Grayson Allen after next year. And it is possible that Frank Jackson will turn out to be an NBA lottery talent. At worst, Duke could lose 3 of its 4 backcourt players after this season. The team will probably need a top-flight PG and SG and a 3-4 year player for 2017 and beyond.

Being a Cubs fan and therefore, eternal optimist, I am very excited about the 4 guards suiting up for Duke next year and look forward to seeing what kind of talent wants to join the team in 2017.

[BluePanda]

I was sincerely hoping that Thornton would stick around for 2016-17 and beyond. I am bummed. Duke is for sure losing Matt Jones and Grayson Allen after next year. And it is possible that Frank Jackson will turn out to be an NBA lottery talent. At worst, Duke could lose 3 of its 4 backcourt players after this season. The team will probably need a top-flight PG and SG and a 3-4 year player for 2017 and beyond.


I'm not sure Grayson is for sure gone after 2017 any more, but for the sake of this let's say he is and so is Jackson, which is even less likely.

We have Luke Kennard and I really think we're getting Trent Jr. (Tyus' understudy; package with Wendell Carter) - both are 2s, so we'll be set there.

For 1s, I've heard a bit of talk about Quade Green, and he seems like a good multi-year player possibility who may or may not be ready year 1. However, with the complementary class we're aiming for and the potential insane lineup we may start - including Trent Jr, Knox, Carter, and Bamba - it would be a shame if we didn't have a lead guard to facilitate play.

I really think, if Frank Jackson is OAD and Grayson leaves in 2017, the staff will reconnect with Troy Brown or Trae Young. it's too bad Duval is at that shady school, otherwise he'd be a perfect last piece to a potentially historic class.

[gocanes0506]

I'm not sure Grayson is for sure gone after 2017 any more, but for the sake of this let's say he is and so is Jackson, which is even less likely.

We have Luke Kennard and I really think we're getting Trent Jr. (Tyus' understudy; package with Wendell Carter) - both are 2s, so we'll be set there.

For 1s, I've heard a bit of talk about Quade Green, and he seems like a good multi-year player possibility who may or may not be ready year 1. However, with the complementary class we're aiming for and the potential insane lineup we may start - including Trent Jr, Knox, Carter, and Bamba - it would be a shame if we didn't have a lead guard to facilitate play.

I really think, if Frank Jackson is OAD and Grayson leaves in 2017, the staff will reconnect with Troy Brown or Trae Young. it's too bad Duval is at that shady school, otherwise he'd be a perfect last piece to a potentially historic class.

Wendell is a monster 5. Could be the starting center. 6-10 250. Or am I misinterpreting what you meant by they are 2s?

[Bluedevil114]

Wendell is a monster 5. Could be the starting center. 6-10 250. Or am I misinterpreting what you meant by they are 2s?

BluePanda was saying Kennard and Trent Jr are both 2's so Duke will be fine at that position. Carter was mentioned only as a package deal with Trent.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'm not sure Grayson is for sure gone after 2017 any more, but for the sake of this let's say he is and so is Jackson, which is even less likely.

We have Luke Kennard and I really think we're getting Trent Jr. (Tyus' understudy; package with Wendell Carter) - both are 2s, so we'll be set there.

For 1s, I've heard a bit of talk about Quade Green, and he seems like a good multi-year player possibility who may or may not be ready year 1. However, with the complementary class we're aiming for and the potential insane lineup we may start - including Trent Jr, Knox, Carter, and Bamba - it would be a shame if we didn't have a lead guard to facilitate play.

I really think, if Frank Jackson is OAD and Grayson leaves in 2017, the staff will reconnect with Troy Brown or Trae Young. it's too bad Duval is at that shady school, otherwise he'd be a perfect last piece to a potentially historic class.

The problem with Thornton leaving, as Al Featherstone so eloquently stated in his front page piece, is that 2017-18 would have been the ideal year for him to showcase his talents. That would have been a great time to take on a leadership role on a very talented team. Instead, he will be playing his first year at a rebuilding UNLV or Cal program. It may work out for him, and I hope it does. Still, you're suggesting a lineup of all freshmen. I just don't see it.

Duke has already offered Tre Jones, younger brother of Tyus and highly touted prospect in his own right, for 2018. It would have been so perfect for Tre to come in off the bench for a year behind Thornton before taking the reins of the team himself. That puts Duke in the position of bringing in another 3-4 year player at the position. My guess is that someone like Luke or Frank will be pushed to the primary ball handling position a la Jon Scheyer or Nolan Smith. Meanwhile, the team can call on a backup point guard for 10-15 minutes a game or to adjust the lineup.

The good news is that we have a year+ of watching what should be a very exciting team before any of this really matters.

[Troublemaker]

I'm not sure Grayson is for sure gone after 2017 any more, but for the sake of this let's say he is and so is Jackson, which is even less likely.

We have Luke Kennard and I really think we're getting Trent Jr. (Tyus' understudy; package with Wendell Carter) - both are 2s, so we'll be set there.

For 1s, I've heard a bit of talk about Quade Green, and he seems like a good multi-year player possibility who may or may not be ready year 1. However, with the complementary class we're aiming for and the potential insane lineup we may start - including Trent Jr, Knox, Carter, and Bamba - it would be a shame if we didn't have a lead guard to facilitate play.

I really think, if Frank Jackson is OAD and Grayson leaves in 2017, the staff will reconnect with Troy Brown or Trae Young. it's too bad Duval is at that shady school, otherwise he'd be a perfect last piece to a potentially historic class.

I like Quade Green a lot and hope we go after him.

There was discussion in another thread about how it'd be nice if Duke could always have a 4-year PG on the roster who can contribute. Green satisfies that requirement, imo, even as a freshman.

In the meantime, still go after Tre Jones, as they can play together. Duke has often played 2 PGs together.

[BluePanda]

I like Quade Green a lot and hope we go after him.

There was discussion in another thread about how it'd be nice if Duke could always have a 4-year PG on the roster who can contribute. Green satisfies that requirement, imo, even as a freshman.

In the meantime, still go after Tre Jones, as they can play together. Duke has often played 2 PGs together.

Yep, and to be clear I like Quade Green. I think he'll continue to develop and be a great 4 year PG for us if he commits. My concern was more for the 2017 - 2018 year, where Green may not be ready to contribute right away and it may make sense to also go for a high-major OAD-ish player if possible - Brown, Duval or Young. All three have either cooled on Duke or the staff has cooled on them, but that may change now that Thornton has transferred and if FJax is a OAD.

[BD80]

I like Quade Green a lot and hope we go after him. ...

Any relation to Red Green? Could be a handy player to have,

[Ichabod Drain]

Any relation to Red Green? Could be a handy player to have,

Even if the women didn't find him handsome.

[English]

Wendell is a monster 5. Could be the starting center. 6-10 250. Or am I misinterpreting what you meant by they are 2s?

Just to restate what I posted earlier in the thread, Wendell--according to his mother--has been adamant that he does NOT want to play the 5 in college (or in AAU ball leading up to his decision). He considers himself a very versatile 4, who can both dominate the paint and work the perimeter. He's made improving his outside shot a priority, as well as concentrating on his perimeter defense.

He's made his AAU choice to play for Team CP3, and has said he will heavily consider a school's situation WRT the center position when he makes his commitment (i.e., if a school appears to have a stable 5 in place or coming in with him, he will consider that an enormous selling point for the program; if it appears that he may have to play the 5 for a school, by virtue that the program lacks a clear center, that's a major ding).

Back to your regularly scheduled talk of a replacement to the replacement of DT.

[Billy Dat]

Just to restate what I posted earlier in the thread, Wendell--according to his mother--has been adamant that he does NOT want to play the 5 in college (or in AAU ball leading up to his decision). He considers himself a very versatile 4, who can both dominate the paint and work the perimeter. He's made improving his outside shot a priority, as well as concentrating on his perimeter defense.

He's made his AAU choice to play for Team CP3, and has said he will heavily consider a school's situation WRT the center position when he makes his commitment (i.e., if a school appears to have a stable 5 in place or coming in with him, he will consider that an enormous selling point for the program; if it appears that he may have to play the 5 for a school, by virtue that the program lacks a clear center, that's a major ding).

Back to your regularly scheduled talk of a replacement to the replacement of DT.

Center at Duke is very much a defensive assignment, right? If the dude is 6'10" and thinks he won't be expected to guard players of like size and to defensive rebound, then I think he's going to have problems wherever he decides to look. If he's just worried about his role on offense, sounds like he's got the right skill set for K.

[kAzE]

Put me down for some point guard continuity. One and done talents are great, but teams in the Final Four typically have a few guys who have been around for awhile, especially point guards. The hard part is finding the balance between the two. I thought Derryck was gonna be that guy who stayed 3 or 4 years and really run the offense. Such a bummer.

[Troublemaker]

Put me down for some point guard continuity. One and done talents are great, but teams in the Final Four typically have a few guys who have been around for awhile, especially point guards. The hard part is finding the balance between the two. I thought Derryck was gonna be that guy who stayed 3 or 4 years and really run the offense. Such a bummer.

Yeah, it's such a tough needle to thread. Good size but slow (Kendall Marshall) stays two years. Small but very quick (Tyler Ulis) stays two years. Great physical talent but unpolished (Derryck) is too impatient. Extremely polished with merely good physical talent (Tyus Jones) is 1-and-done.

:confused:

[Skitzle]

Yeah, it's such a tough needle to thread. Good size but slow (Kendall Marshall) stays two years. Small but very quick (Tyler Ulis) stays two years. Great physical talent but unpolished (Derryck) is too impatient. Extremely polished with merely good physical talent (Tyus Jones) is 1-and-done.

:confused:

And 2 time pre-season all-american Marcus Paige never makes the NBA :D

[JasonEvans]

Just to restate what I posted earlier in the thread, Wendell--according to his mother--has been adamant that he does NOT want to play the 5 in college (or in AAU ball leading up to his decision). He considers himself a very versatile 4, who can both dominate the paint and work the perimeter. He's made improving his outside shot a priority, as well as concentrating on his perimeter defense.

He's made his AAU choice to play for Team CP3, and has said he will heavily consider a school's situation WRT the center position when he makes his commitment (i.e., if a school appears to have a stable 5 in place or coming in with him, he will consider that an enormous selling point for the program; if it appears that he may have to play the 5 for a school, by virtue that the program lacks a clear center, that's a major ding).

Back to your regularly scheduled talk of a replacement to the replacement of DT.

Between Chase Jeter (who will be a junior in 2017-18) and potentially Marques Bolden (I don't think a kid ranked in the teens-20s is a likely 1-and-done), Duke should have ample options in the middle to show Mr. Carter that he would do more than just be chained to the post here.

That said, Duke has often used big men with a perimeter skill set more like stretch 4s than like traditional big men anyway. Look at Jabari Parker, Ryan Kelly and Kyle Singler, Josh McRoberts, and all the way back to Christian Laettner. If Carter has the ability to step out and hit perimeter shots, K will gladly fit the offense to let him succeed at that.

-Jason "Josh Pastner is spending every waking moment on Wendell Carter's doorstep right now" Evans

[ricks68]

Any relation to Red Green? Could be a handy player to have,

I would expect him to completely wrap up the player he is defending.

ricks

[PalmettoExpat]

http://usatodayhss.com/2016/the-kevin-knox-blog-kevin-knox-duke-in-home-unc-roy-williams-villanova-jay-wright-national-title#sthash.XrGBfV6a.uxfs&st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/ejsFyNHXXc

"I checked on Coach K too because he had a procedure so that was cool too. I had an in-home visit with Duke last week and it was definitely a 10 out of 10. Coach K couldn’t make it because he said he didn’t want to be hopping around on crutches the whole time, but I had a great talk with Coach Capel. We ordered pizza and just sat and talked. He went over everything with me. He talked about how much freedom I would have there and even compared me to Brandon Ingram and the situation he was in. He talked to me about some of the other players they were looking to get and a lot of different stuff.

Coach K texted me the next day asking me how much I liked the visit and apologized for not being able to make it.

It was a great visit." - Kevin Knox

Sounds good!

[BD80]

http://usatodayhss.com/2016/the-kevin-knox-blog-kevin-knox-duke-in-home-unc-roy-williams-villanova-jay-wright-national-title#sthash.XrGBfV6a.uxfs&st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/ejsFyNHXXc

"I checked on Coach K too because he had a procedure so that was cool too. I had an in-home visit with Duke last week and it was definitely a 10 out of 10. Coach K couldn’t make it because he said he didn’t want to be hopping around on crutches the whole time, but I had a great talk with Coach Capel. We ordered pizza and just sat and talked. He went over everything with me. He talked about how much freedom I would have there and even compared me to Brandon Ingram and the situation he was in. He talked to me about some of the other players they were looking to get and a lot of different stuff.

Coach K texted me the next day asking me how much I liked the visit and apologized for not being able to make it.

It was a great visit." - Kevin Knox

Sounds good!

Even with the coaches, it is "next man up."

Imagine if ol' roy couldn't make a recruiting visit because of a medical issue, a tragedy of Biblical proportions!

[Olympic Fan]

Even with the coaches, it is "next man up."

Imagine if ol' roy couldn't make a recruiting visit because of a medical issue, a tragedy of Biblical proportions!

Just a funny aside, but amazing the amount of vitriol and misinformation there can be on message boards.

I was visiting a Kentucky board (Rupp's Rafters) last week and there was a long threads about K's visit to Marques Bolden that supposedly took place last Thursday at his home in Texas. The thread generated 181 replies and over 10,700 page hits. There were expected rants about K swooping in to steal a player that belonged to Kentucky, etc.

Nobody mentioned that there was zero truth to the story. Three reasons:

(1) Last Thursday was a non-contact day

(2) Bolden was not at his home in Texas, he was in Portland, practicing for the Nike Hoop Summit.

(3) Coach K was laid up all last week after his knee replacement surgery. He couldn't even get down to his office to meet with Kevin Knox, much less get on a place and fly to Texas.

Nobody on the Kentucky board seemed to notice any of that -- there was even a followup thread seeking information on K's "home visit".

[El_Diablo]

Just a funny aside, but amazing the amount of vitriol and misinformation there can be on message boards.

I was visiting a Kentucky board (Rupp's Rafters) last week and there was a long threads about K's visit to Marques Bolden that supposedly took place last Thursday at his home in Texas. The thread generated 181 replies and over 10,700 page hits. There were expected rants about K swooping in to steal a player that belonged to Kentucky, etc.

Nobody mentioned that there was zero truth to the story. Three reasons:

(1) Last Thursday was a non-contact day

(2) Bolden was not at his home in Texas, he was in Portland, practicing for the Nike Hoop Summit.

(3) Coach K was laid up all last week after his knee replacement surgery. He couldn't even get down to his office to meet with Kevin Knox, much less get on a place and fly to Texas.

Nobody on the Kentucky board seemed to notice any of that -- there was even a followup thread seeking information on K's "home visit".

Clearly Kentucky fans have found out the shocking truth: that Coach K faked having surgery so he could sneak off for a secret meeting with Bolden during a no-contact period in Bolden's second home (the one in Portland that Duke must have paid for under-the-table). And the Christian Laettner kicked a puppy.

[COYS]

Just a funny aside, but amazing the amount of vitriol and misinformation there can be on message boards.

I was visiting a Kentucky board (Rupp's Rafters) last week and there was a long threads about K's visit to Marques Bolden that supposedly took place last Thursday at his home in Texas. The thread generated 181 replies and over 10,700 page hits. There were expected rants about K swooping in to steal a player that belonged to Kentucky, etc.

Nobody mentioned that there was zero truth to the story. Three reasons:

(1) Last Thursday was a non-contact day

(2) Bolden was not at his home in Texas, he was in Portland, practicing for the Nike Hoop Summit.

(3) Coach K was laid up all last week after his knee replacement surgery. He couldn't even get down to his office to meet with Kevin Knox, much less get on a place and fly to Texas.

Nobody on the Kentucky board seemed to notice any of that -- there was even a followup thread seeking information on K's "home visit".

This really is pretty amazing. Not to get too off topic, here, but I was a religion major as an undergrad. There is a very strong parallel between how most religious groups draw a line between "us" and "them" (and "good" and "evil") and how UK (and UNC fans) view Coach K. The "evil" forces are often described as terrifyingly powerful and extremely weak at the same time. In this post, UK fans are marveling at "evil" Coach K's ability to manipulate space and time to magically transport both himself and Bolden to Bolden's home in Texas on a non-contact day with no one knowing. Yet at the same time, they also laugh at "evil" K's obvious inferiority to "good" Calipari as both a coach and a recruiter. Not that long ago they were laughing at how poorly K prepared Duke to face Oregon despite having all those McDonald's All Americans and how Indiana was a MUCH tougher team than Oregon, nevermind the fact that Oregon was a 1 seed and Indiana a 5. I guess it really is true what they say, for the fan-bases of the blue-blood programs, basketball really is a religion.

To be fair, we're not all that different. I feel like we are quick to explain how UK coasts to Final Four appearances on talent alone and too easily dismiss the role of Calipari's coaching in the process. Oh well, I honestly have no interest in changing. College basketball is like the ancient religious world . . . local gods are pitted against each other whenever two different communities go to war. In the case of Duke, we tend to win quite a few more battles than we lose =).

[olegreg]

Does anybody know if duke will make a push at trevon Duval. This guy is seriously talented.

[Pghdukie]

Does anybody know if duke will make a push at trevon Duval. This guy is seriously talented.

He has been offered and is still being heavily recruited.

[BandAlum83]

. College basketball is like the ancient religious world . . . local gods are pitted against each other whenever two different communities go to war.

Ancient? Look around much?

/off-topic
/socio-commentary
/geopolitical-commentary