Optimal Season Outcome... for UNC. (alt topic: John Wayne)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I have frequently said to UNC fans that I encounter that my ideal UNC season would include them winning every game except 4 - all four losses to Duke. That's two regular season games, the ACC Championship, and the NCAA Championship. I feel that such a season would be such an utter dominance of a really good team, that it would establish a degree of supremacy and constitute the greatest season in Duke history.

In contrast, I derived relatively little pleasure from the Coach D'oh years. Watching your rival flounder about makes it far less satisfying when you obliterate them.

How do you feel? What is your idea outcome for UNC this year - or any other year?

[alteran]

I have frequently said to UNC fans that I encounter that my ideal UNC season would include them winning every game except 4 - all four losses to Duke. That's two regular season games, the ACC Championship, and the NCAA Championship. I feel that such a season would be such an utter dominance of a really good team, that it would establish a degree of supremacy and constitute the greatest season in Duke history.

In contrast, I derived relatively little pleasure from the Coach D'oh years. Watching your rival flounder about makes it far less satisfying when you obliterate them.

How do you feel? What is your idea outcome for UNC this year - or any other year?

The D'oh years were pretty close to my optimal outcome-- winning just enough games to keep their fans engaged, so the losses hurt that much more. Thereby giving their fans maximal pain.

Although now that I think about it, losing so much their fans become disengaged is pretty damn good, too.

[hurleyfor3]

Roy forced to resign after his entire record at unc is vacated, followed by an Indiana-esque generation of turmoil. Seriously, there's a better answer than this?

[OldPhiKap]

Perfect UNC season: "Disappointed NIT Bubble Team"

[Duvall]

First one, then the other, then the other, then the first one again.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Roy forced to resign after his entire record at unc is vacated, followed by an Indiana-esque generation of turmoil. Seriously, there's a better answer than this?

Ouch. Kinda harsh. I know where you're going, but still harsh ;)

My take on UNC is the following: "hate em, but I respect em". I will never support UNC, never paint my baby boy's room baby blue, never give my kid the initials "MJ", never root for UNC, and never buy property in Chapel Hill. But I do respect their program. Until 10 months ago. Screw that - they can lose every game until they address their "student athletes" :D

[weezie]

Roy forced to resign after his entire record at unc is vacated, followed by an Indiana-esque generation of turmoil. Seriously, there's a better answer than this?

Why is this not a voting option? I might have to toot that whistle thing in the lower corner to address the injustice of this poll.

[Chicago 1995]

Lose every single game.

How is there an answer other than this?

Heck, I'm a big Kentucky fan when they play UNC. Same for UConn, let alone lesser evils like Michigan State, Indiana, Arizona or Ohio State.

[hurleyfor3]

Why is this not a voting option?

Because I forgot I can modify polls with my unicorn magic?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Because I forgot that I'm God and can modify polls?

I have zero problem with this change

[CameronBlue]

Their mascot resembles Jar Jar Binks, they have my pity, but not my mercy, 0-27.

[BD80]

Utter failure. ol' roy implicated in cheating scandal and resigns in disgrace, all of his wins at unc vacated. Cheating scandal mushrooms, takes down basketball, football, and women's basketball, maybe lacrosse and tennis. In fallout, improper benefits surface, cementing finding of lack of institutional control. NCAA delivers death penalty across all athletic programs, unc loses academic certification.

And 3 Sharknados converge over chapel hill.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Perfect UNC season: "Disappointed NIT Bubble Team"
Would love to see them hang an NIT runner up banner this year.

[throatybeard]

I voted for the fifth option, but my real vote is, get picked off by the SEC and we never hear from them again. As I've recently made clear.

[lotusland]

Infinite futility, utter humiliation and permanent residence in hell.

[weezie]

Because I forgot I can modify polls with my unicorn magic?

Swell, and I can't vote again. It's always the trailblazers who suffer the most.....:cool:

[brevity]

Cheating scandal mushrooms, takes down basketball, football, and women's basketball, maybe lacrosse and tennis.

Marinated? Stuffed? Kennedy Meeks would like to learn more about these cheating scandal mushrooms.

[DukieInKansas]

I went with Option 1. If I lived in an area with a higher unc fan concentration, I would probably have voted differently.

[OldPhiKap]

Infinite futility, utter humiliation and permanent residence in hell.

So, a fight to the pain?

[superdave]

In all honesty, if you could guarantee me a Duke victory, I'd gladly play Unc in the National Championship game and beat them. Either a blowout or last second game-winning should would be acceptable, as long as we win.

We would have bragging rights forever.

The rivalry is great as long the programs operate at high levels. I do enjoy the rivalry, even if I find the fans and head coach of the rivals to be insufferable arse-hats.

[Olympic Fan]

A few years ago, I would have voted for the first option -- I think it's great when UNC is very good (as long is Duke is a bit better). I like being a part of being part of the best rivalry in sports -- and it means more to beat a 30-win UNC team than one that's headed for the NIT.

But after learning of how UNC has cheated for at least a decade (and maybe two) and watching how that rather than addressing the problem they've done everything possible to deny and cover up their sins, I voted for the last option ... even though I don't totally agree with it.

I want them to pay for their crimes ... yes. That means vacating a ton of games, including two national titles (2005; 2009) and two ACC titles (2007, 2008). I think Roy has to go -- even though I think he inherited a corrupt system. His pet academic advisor Wayne Walden did his best to exploit it.

But I don't want to see UNC undergo a decade of turmoil. I want to see them get back on track -- a clean track.

In the end, I want the UNC I thought made such a great rival for all those years -- another do-it-the-right-way program that wins at a high level. Beating that team was sweet and even an occasional loss to them was nothing to be ashamed of.

[Henderson]

But I don't want to see UNC undergo a decade of turmoil.

Oh, come on. At least one decade. For the children?

But if you really feel that way, can you name some games coming up during which you'll be pulling for Carolina? You know, to help them avoid a decade of turmoil? Which ACC teams should go down to help boost Carolina?

[Olympic Fan]

Oh, come on. At least one decade. For the children?

But if you really feel that way, can you name some games coming up during which you'll be pulling for Carolina? You know, to help them avoid a decade of turmoil? Which ACC teams should go down to help boost Carolina?

I don't think that's fair ... it's not a matter of suggesting some other ACC team should "go down" to help UNC. I think I explained why it's good for Duke when UNC is good.

As long as they do it the right way (which they haven't been doing).

[Duvall]

I don't think that's fair ... it's not a matter of suggesting some other ACC team should "go down" to help UNC. I think I explained why it's good for Duke when UNC is good.

As long as they do it the right way (which they haven't been doing).

Well, as long as no one knows UNC is doing things the wrong way, isn't it still good for Duke?

My view is that UNC fans could use a long stay in the wilderness. It probably won't be enough to teach them humility, but it couldn't hurt.

[Henderson]

I don't think that's fair ... it's not a matter of suggesting some other ACC team should "go down" to help UNC. I think I explained why it's good for Duke when UNC is good.

As long as they do it the right way (which they haven't been doing).

You're talking about UNC being good in the abstract. I'm just pointing out that they can't be good in the abstract without winning games (i.e. making other teams go down). And I can't think of any games I would want them to win. I won't be pulling for them in any, but that's just me. YMMV. It's tough to say one wants Carolina to be good in the abstract and still hope that they lose in every specific game. So I was inquiring as to which games you want them to win.

I do get your point, but I think there's some inherent inconsistency to it for a Duke fan.

[Newton_14]

First one, then the other, then the other, then the first one again.

I voted 0-27 but I kinda like this idea better. Just let him experience each of the selections in succession and then repeat ovah and ovah....Like Billy Packer, it's ovah!!!

[hudlow]

Kicking cheaters' butts is more fun.

[blueduke59]

Utter failure. ol' roy implicated in cheating scandal and resigns in disgrace, all of his wins at unc vacated. Cheating scandal mushrooms, takes down basketball, football, and women's basketball, maybe lacrosse and tennis. In fallout, improper benefits surface, cementing finding of lack of institutional control. NCAA delivers death penalty across all athletic programs, unc loses academic certification.

And 3 Sharknados converge over chapel hill.

^THIS

[OldPhiKap]

I want to see them hammered so hard that the Helms Bakery asks for its banner back.

[wilko]

Utter failure. ol' roy implicated in cheating scandal and resigns in disgrace, all of his wins at unc vacated. Cheating scandal mushrooms, takes down basketball, football, and women's basketball, maybe lacrosse and tennis. In fallout, improper benefits surface, cementing finding of lack of institutional control. NCAA delivers death penalty across all athletic programs, unc loses academic certification.

That would be a very merry Christmas indeed...

I was thinking of a huge sinkhole, but someone might get hurt in that scenario..

[BD80]

I want to see them hammered so hard that the Helms Bakery asks for its banner back.

Inconceivable!

I once saw a dog awarded a Helms banner for peeing pretty close to a fire hydrant

[OldPhiKap]

Inconceivable!

I once saw a dog awarded a Helms banner for peeing pretty close to a fire hydrant

"Helms Bakery -- celebrating pissants since 1924"

[Newton_14]

Here is a sure fire way to rattle any heels fan that ever brings up the Helms "Title"... simply ask them things like, "Who did you beat in the title game? What was the score? Who got MVP? etc"

Works every time...

[Zeb]

I have frequently said to UNC fans that I encounter that my ideal UNC season would include them winning every game except 4 - all four losses to Duke. That's two regular season games, the ACC Championship, and the NCAA Championship. I feel that such a season would be such an utter dominance of a really good team, that it would establish a degree of supremacy and constitute the greatest season in Duke history.

A couple of wrinkles to consider in this scenario:
1) Would the 4 losses be close, or blowouts? I think my preference would be a Riverseque loss at Chapel Hill, a 40pt loss in Cameron, another close loss in the ACC tourney (to give them some hope), and then a 50pt loss in the NCAA tournament, with Roy throwing in the towel and starting the walk-ons in the second half. (He'd keep the starters in the locker room to protect them from any physical/psychological harm)
2) How good should the Duke team be? On the one hand, an undefeated season would be beautiful. And that is probably what most would wish for. But imagine if we had a terrible season, with a roster depleted by injuries and unexpected NBA defections causing us to lose every regular season game except for those to UNC. Then we make a miracle run through the ACC tourney and upset #1 ranked UNC to earn the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. And then we have a Cinderella run to the Final Four where we crush the Heels in the NC game. We'd be something like 13-24, the worst team to win it all in NCAA history. And Carolina fans would be forced to always remember that their best team couldn't beat one of our worst. Kind of intriguing isn't it?

[wilko]

A couple of wrinkles to consider in this scenario:
1) Would the 4 losses be close, or blowouts? I think my preference would be a Riverseque loss at Chapel Hill, a 40pt loss in Cameron, another close loss in the ACC tourney (to give them some hope), and then a 50pt loss in the NCAA tournament, with Roy throwing in the towel and starting the walk-ons in the second half. (He'd keep the starters in the locker room to protect them from any physical/psychological harm)
2) How good should the Duke team be? On the one hand, an undefeated season would be beautiful. And that is probably what most would wish for. But imagine if we had a terrible season, with a roster depleted by injuries and unexpected NBA defections causing us to lose every regular season game except for those to UNC. Then we make a miracle run through the ACC tourney and upset #1 ranked UNC to earn the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. And then we have a Cinderella run to the Final Four where we crush the Heels in the NC game. We'd be something like 13-24, the worst team to win it all in NCAA history. And Carolina fans would be forced to always remember that their best team couldn't beat one of our worst. Kind of intriguing isn't it?

I'd just prefer to beat them by 50 every time out.....
No what if... no coulda, woulda shoulda - just a look in the mirror and know they got it handed to them good and proper and there wasn't didly they could do or say to have any pretense at an argument or equality much less spin an angle of positivist/ superiority..

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

A couple of wrinkles to consider in this scenario:
1) Would the 4 losses be close, or blowouts? I think my preference would be a Riverseque loss at Chapel Hill, a 40pt loss in Cameron, another close loss in the ACC tourney (to give them some hope), and then a 50pt loss in the NCAA tournament, with Roy throwing in the towel and starting the walk-ons in the second half. (He'd keep the starters in the locker room to protect them from any physical/psychological harm)
2) How good should the Duke team be? On the one hand, an undefeated season would be beautiful. And that is probably what most would wish for. But imagine if we had a terrible season, with a roster depleted by injuries and unexpected NBA defections causing us to lose every regular season game except for those to UNC. Then we make a miracle run through the ACC tourney and upset #1 ranked UNC to earn the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. And then we have a Cinderella run to the Final Four where we crush the Heels in the NC game. We'd be something like 13-24, the worst team to win it all in NCAA history. And Carolina fans would be forced to always remember that their best team couldn't beat one of our worst. Kind of intriguing isn't it?

I assumed that a Duke 41-0 season was a given in this scenario.

I really appreciate all the replies. Interesting to see how we all view our rivals.

[gurufrisbee]

My two favorite teams are Duke and whoever is playing NC.

Best season is where NC doesn't win a single game. That way the next season they can pretend they are relevant again and not whine about scandals or suspensions or any crap - and then hopefully go winless again.

[OldPhiKap]

My two favorite teams are Duke and whoever is playing NC.

Best season is where NC doesn't win a single game. That way the next season they can pretend they are relevant again and not whine about scandals or suspensions or any crap - and then hopefully go winless again.

I cannot see how this is not the perfect answer.

[royalblue]

Never win again is best but 2nd best is below
32-4 then 0-27 then finish off with a scandal in year 3 that showed cheating to go 0-27
I am going to have a good day just thinking about it:)

[UrinalCake]

The D'oh years were pretty close to my optimal outcome-- winning just enough games to keep their fans engaged, so the losses hurt that much more. Thereby giving their fans maximal pain.

Although now that I think about it, losing so much their fans become disengaged is pretty damn good, too.

This is pretty much how I feel. I enjoyed the D'oh years in large part because I was a student in the mid-90's, when they totally dominated us and it felt like we would never beat them again. But after destroying them for a few years, I felt like it would get tiresome if it continued much longer. So I do want them to be good, as long as we're better.

As for the scandals, i definitely want those banners to come down. I still cling to the idealistic notion of the student athlete, and if they get away with what they've done then that would pretty much shatter any hope I have of college athletics being a legitimate entity.

[Lar77]

Lose to a Southern Conference team, Lose to Us by a record margin after we invoke the mercy rule, Get relegated to the NIT and lose again while We win the NCAA...

Oh wait, already happened.

In which case I like the Sharknado 3 scenario with Jerry Tarkanian leading the NCAA enforcement action - Sharknado 3: Tark's Revenge.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I would love a UNC season that has them moaning in late January, wondering why they are flirting with the bubble. The Duke game is still important; UNC is not so terrible that it is a given that it will be an easy victory (although that has never happened anyway), but they aren't ranked, floating outside in the mid 30's. The fans sweat and the cries go out that Roy's time needs to end. Throw in a player or two with off the court trouble, and it's even more fun.

[Duke4life92]

Don't care!Move on.GTHCGTHASAP!!!

[throatybeard]

Hey, I know, let's have another thread about how much we don't care about Maryland.

[BD80]

Hey, I know, let's have another thread about how much we don't care about Maryland.

Who?

Name is familiar, but just can't place it. I get visions of bonfires, dangerous projectiles, and an overall sense of maleficence and putrefaction.

Sometimes CRS is a good thing.

[throatybeard]

This isn't worth a whole nother thread, but it's pretty hilarious from our perspective that former Guthridge and Doherty assistant Doug Wojcik just got expelled from Charleston for malfeasance.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11313331/college-charleston-cougars-fire-coach-doug-wojcik

[NSDukeFan]

This isn't worth a whole nother thread, but it's pretty hilarious from our perspective that former Guthridge and Doherty assistant Doug Wojcik just got expelled from Charleston for malfeasance.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11313331/college-charleston-cougars-fire-coach-doug-wojcik

Is that UNC's punishment? If so, I sure hope they've learned their lesson.

[throatybeard]

Is that UNC's punishment? If so, I sure hope they've learned their lesson.

I'm sure the NCAA will send them a flower basket and a Helms banner for 1799.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Hey, I know, let's have another thread about how much we don't care about Maryland.
Since I hate the spork system, I'm not going to knock you privately, I'll just raise a question. Why are you bringing up your distaste for one thread in another? Both are fun. If you don't like it, don't post in it, and if you really don't like it, just don't read it.

[throatybeard]

Since I hate the spork system, I'm not going to knock you privately, I'll just raise a question. Why are you bringing up your distaste for one thread in another? Both are fun. If you don't like it, don't post in it, and if you really don't like it, just don't read it.

Because the things I say are funny, at least in my head.

That one was because I deleted the following:

"The legislature decides to end funding of all state institutions of higher education in North Carolina."

But that wasn't funny, because I think that could actually happen.

[sagegrouse]

Because the things I say are funny, at least in my head.

That one was because I deleted the following:

"The legislature decides to end funding of all state institutions of higher education in North Carolina."

But that wasn't funny, because I think that could actually happen.

It's happened elsewhere. The Univ. of Colorado gets about 6 percent of its budget from the State of Colorado -- as in six, seis, VI, you know. It is amazing how you can run an undergraduate school OK when you have 12,000 out-of-state students paying $32,000+ in tuition and fees out of a total enrollment of 31,600. Lessee... I suppose you could run some decent academic programs with the $384 million of income.

In-state tuition and fees are $12,500, adding another $250 million to the coffers. But, as you can see, the out-of-state students are paying the majority of the tuition and fees.

BTW the State of Colorado has, according to Gov. Hickenlooper, the most highly educated citizenry, the majority of whom got their undergraduate and graduate degrees elsewhere. (He graduated from Wesleyan, as did Sen. Bennet. Sen. Udall graduated from Williams.)

[throatybeard]

It's happened elsewhere. The Univ. of Colorado gets about 6 percent of its budget from the State of Colorado -- as in six, seis, VI, you know. It is amazing how you can run an undergraduate school OK when you have 12,000 out-of-state students paying $32,000+ in tuition and fees out of a total enrollment of 31,600. Lessee... I suppose you could run some decent academic programs with the $384 million of income.

In-state tuition and fees are $12,500, adding another $250 million to the coffers. But, as you can see, the out-of-state students are paying the majority of the tuition and fees.

BTW the State of Colorado has, according to Gov. Hickenlooper, the most highly educated citizenry, the majority of whom got their undergraduate and graduate degrees elsewhere. (He graduated from Wesleyan, as did Sen. Bennet. Sen. Udall graduated from Williams.)

Not to totally hijack the thread, but to hijack the thread a little, that's really interesting. At UMSL, we recently lost an education Dean (lived one street over from our old new house) to CU. They found a way to pay him.

I'll stop before posting a generic jeremiad about the state of public higher education.

9F?

[sagegrouse]

Not to totally hijack the thread, but to hijack the thread a little, that's really interesting. At UMSL, we recently lost an education Dean (lived one street over from our old new house) to CU. They found a way to pay him.

I'll stop before posting a generic jeremiad about the state of public higher education.

9F?

Well, not to be too cynical, but it's about amateurs from the the East and Midwest fantasizing about the mountains and skiing. Truthfully, ignoring Eldora (a windswept mountain nearby), it's two-plus hours without traffic to any place you've ever heard of, and those places are all slammed on the weekends, as is I-70. The "perfessional" ski students go to Montana State at Bozeman. Big Sky is within an hour's drive and Bridger Bowl is 20 minutes away.

[hurleyfor3]

BTW the State of Colorado has, according to Gov. Hickenlooper, the most highly educated citizenry

Well yeah, if people in other states were smarter, they'd be living here.

[throatybeard]

Well yeah, if people in other states were smarter, they'd be living here.

Colorado is beautiful from a helicopter, but if European Americans had any sense whatsoever, from a hydrological perspective, they wouldn't have ventured west of the 100th meridian west, ever. There are supposed to be like three Native American guys out there on like two horses.

(Are we doing this now? Or what. Please advise).

[hurleyfor3]

There are supposed to be like three Native American guys out there on like two horses.

Plus John Wayne on his. (True Grit, 1969.)


(Are we doing this now? Or what. Please advise).

It's summer. We all want unc to suck, it's just a difference of degree ranging from "only when they play us" to "thrown into the ncaa's equivalent of the Sarlac pit".

[throatybeard]

Plus John Wayne on his. (True Grit, 1969.)

That film got its butt raucously kicked by the Coens' remake, but I do like the idea of John Wayne being put out to pasture. Or desert.

[kAzE]

In all honesty, if you could guarantee me a Duke victory, I'd gladly play Unc in the National Championship game and beat them. Either a blowout or last second game-winning should would be acceptable, as long as we win.

We would have bragging rights forever.

The rivalry is great as long the programs operate at high levels. I do enjoy the rivalry, even if I find the fans and head coach of the rivals to be insufferable arse-hats.

I'm on board with this line of thought. I'll always, ALWAYS root against UNC, but come on, it's a crappy rivalry if the one of the teams constantly sucks. We also get no credit for any wins in the ACC if our competition is garbage. As long as they lose to Duke, I couldn't care less about what they do in their other games. But you can't ignore the fact that it ultimately helps Duke when they are good. If it means Duke benefits, I'll consider anything else secondary to the ultimate cause, even if it means UNC is good . . .




but not as good as us.

[msdukie]

first one, then the other, then the other, then the first one again.

this. And then more. Much much more.

[Wander]

Duke national championship, UNC NIT runner's up. I miss you, 2010.

[throatybeard]

Duke national championship, UNC NIT runner's up. I miss you, 2010.

I forget who said this, (Heimel?) but somebody that year said something like "I want to sew a UNC NIT runner-up shirt to the back of a Duke NCAAT championship shirt."

[alteran]

That film got its butt raucously kicked by the Coens' remake, but I do like the idea of John Wayne being put out to pasture. Or desert.
Considering the era Wayne played Cogburn in, I'd say his version was more ground-breaking in it's time than the Coen Brother's was in theirs.

I'm still waiting for the definitive version of True Grit.

[throatybeard]

Considering the era Wayne played Cogburn in, I'd say his version was more ground-breaking in it's time than the Coen Brother's was in theirs.

I'm still waiting for the definitive version of True Grit.

Considering that the book itself is so fussy, mannered, and precious, I doubt there will be one.

The Coens, at least, achieved the remarkable feat of making me not root for the pit of snakes.

[OldPhiKap]

Optimal headline: "New Head Coach Mary Willingham . . . ."

[hurleyfor3]

I'm still waiting for the definitive version of True Grit.

The final fight scene in the 1969 movie, where John Wayne rides his horse towards the outlaws, shooting rifles in each arm, isn't definitive enough for you?

[throatybeard]

The final fight scene in the 1969 movie, where John Wayne rides his horse towards the outlaws, shooting rifles in each arm, isn't definitive enough for you?

No, because DDL does the same thing with no horse, long-rifles, running up a North Carolina mountain toward Madeleine freaking Stowe in a whole nother movie.

[throatybeard]

Okay, now that this is what we're talking about, there exactly one film in which I can tolerate Wayne's presence for more than five minutes: his last, The Shootist. And that has more to do with Stewart and Bacall than with him. Ad the fact that he's dying of cancer on screen gives me the sads.

The woman in the 1969 film, as I've said, makes me root for the snakes. (How horrible is that? But yes, I said it). I'm not going to look her name up because I just can't. 45 years later, she still needs to lose that hat. And stop talking that way. But now we're back to the novel.

[OldPhiKap]

Okay, now that this is what we're talking about, there exactly one film in which I can tolerate Wayne's presence for more than five minutes: his last, The Shootist. And that has more to do with Stewart and Bacall than with him. Ad the fact that he's dying of cancer on screen gives me the sads.

The woman in the 1969 film, as I've said, makes me root for the snakes. (How horrible is that? But yes, I said it). I'm not going to look her name up because I just can't. 45 years later, she still needs to lose that hat. And stop talking that way. But now we're back to the novel.

The Quiet Man is a classic.

He is also great in The Longest a day although it is more cameo-esque than anything.

[sagegrouse]

The Quiet Man is a classic.

He is also great in The Longest a day although it is more cameo-esque than anything.

What's wrong with "Sands of Iwo Jima?"

[OldPhiKap]

What's wrong with "Sands of Iwo Jima?"

Not a damn thing.

[Newton_14]

Okay, now that this is what we're talking about, there exactly one film in which I can tolerate Wayne's presence for more than five minutes: his last, The Shootist. And that has more to do with Stewart and Bacall than with him. Ad the fact that he's dying of cancer on screen gives me the sads.

The woman in the 1969 film, as I've said, makes me root for the snakes. (How horrible is that? But yes, I said it). I'm not going to look her name up because I just can't. 45 years later, she still needs to lose that hat. And stop talking that way. But now we're back to the novel.

Throaty, pal, you are killing me here man.. Am I understanding this correctly that you are not a fan of The Duke? John Freakin Wayne? Please say it ain't so Joe.....:D

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm on board with this line of thought. I'll always, ALWAYS root against UNC, but come on, it's a crappy rivalry if the one of the teams constantly sucks. We also get no credit for any wins in the ACC if our competition is garbage. As long as they lose to Duke, I couldn't care less about what they do in their other games. But you can't ignore the fact that it ultimately helps Duke when they are good. If it means Duke benefits, I'll consider anything else secondary to the ultimate cause, even if it means UNC is good . . .




but not as good as us.

Thanks for articulating my own thoughts on this better than I was able to. What's the fun of walking over your rival when everyone else does too? How much more awesome when your rival is impossible to defeat... for everyone else who doesn't your talent, coaching, homecourt fans, etc?

Sporks comin' at you for saying what I was feeling.

[throatybeard]

Throaty, pal, you are killing me here man.. Am I understanding this correctly that you are not a fan of The Duke? John Freakin Wayne? Please say it ain't so Joe.....:D

I'm more of an Eastwood man. He's like the Hubert Davis of...no that doesn't work.

Adjust, that, actually. I'm a revisionist western man. I can't take the unironic ones. The overwhelming majority of Wayne's films set in the West argue that manifest destiny was a justifiable project.

Sergio Leone, brah.

I blame my pal Hurleyfor3 for this threadjack.

[Henderson]

Considering the era Wayne played Cogburn in, I'd say his version was more ground-breaking in it's time than the Coen Brother's was in theirs.


Well, the original did have Glenn Campbell.

4279

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm more of an Eastwood man. He's like the Hubert Davis of...no that doesn't work.

Adjust, that, actually. I'm a revisionist western man. I can't take the unironic ones. The overwhelming majority of Wayne's films set in the West argue that manifest destiny was a justifiable project.

Sergio Leone, brah.

I blame my pal Hurleyfor3 for this threadjack.

If you can't threadjack in early August, when can you?

[hurleyfor3]

I blame my pal Hurleyfor3 for this threadjack.

Not just the thread, I hijacked the original poll! And my option won, so there!

[NashvilleDevil]

No, because DDL does the same thing with no horse, long-rifles, running up a North Carolina mountain toward Madeleine freaking Stowe in a whole nother movie.

He is running after Uncas, who is running after Alice Munro. Cora and Chingachook are behind and of course we know what the last of the Mohicans does to the Huron, Magua.

[OldPhiKap]

Take this thread to Cuba!


Oh, and GTH,C.

[superdave]

Not just the thread, I hijacked the original poll! And my option won, so there!

Should we do another poll? How about....

What calamity would you like to see happen in Chapel Hill?


Michael Jordan's letter from Coach K spontaneously combusts (reducing the smugness in that town by 12.5%)
A big snowfall causes the roof on the Dean Dome to collapse, ruining all 192 retired jerseys
Helms Foundation rescinds the 1924 "championship" due to academic irregularities
NCAA instructional video for referees released declaring 56% of Hansborough's points invalid because of charges, travels and over-the-back fouls not called
Massive sewage backup in the Dean Dome lasts for the first month of practice
Clemson wins in CH

[Henderson]

Should we do another poll? How about....

What calamity would you like to see happen in Chapel Hill?


Michael Jordan's letter from Coach K spontaneously combusts (reducing the smugness in that town by 12.5%)
A big snowfall causes the roof on the Dean Dome to collapse, ruining all 192 retired jerseys
Helms Foundation rescinds the 1924 "championship" due to academic irregularities
NCAA instructional video for referees released declaring 56% of Hansborough's points invalid because of charges, travels and over-the-back fouls not called
Massive sewage backup in the Dean Dome lasts for the first month of practice
Clemson wins in CH


The massive sewage backup that is Carolina Basketball has been going on at the Dean Dome since 1986.

Trivia Time: What famous person uttered on screen the following lines relevant to UNC-CH?

“Well, there are some things a man just can’t run away from.”

And:

“Don’t apologize—it’s a sign of weakness.”

[DukieInKansas]

Should we do another poll? How about....

What calamity would you like to see happen in Chapel Hill?


Michael Jordan's letter from Coach K spontaneously combusts (reducing the smugness in that town by 12.5%)
A big snowfall causes the roof on the Dean Dome to collapse, ruining all 192 retired jerseys
Helms Foundation rescinds the 1924 "championship" due to academic irregularities
NCAA instructional video for referees released declaring 56% of Hansborough's points invalid because of charges, travels and over-the-back fouls not called
Massive sewage backup in the Dean Dome lasts for the first month of practice
Clemson wins in CH


I don't see this last option as a calamity.

[throatybeard]

He is running after Uncas, who is running after Alice Munro. Cora and Chingachook are behind and of course we know what the last of the Mohicans does to the Huron, Magua.

You're absolutely right.

I've never seen anything more beautiful in the history of homo sapiens than when Stowe looks at Duncan while DDL puts him out of his misery, and she turns and looks away floofing her hair, and then she looks back. This is pretty much my swing thought when I'm trying and failing to go to sleep at night.

Man, of all the movies that I know aren't superb works of art but I just love the hell out of, it's at the top of the list.

[throatybeard]

He is running after Uncas, who is running after Alice Munro. Cora and Chingachook are behind and of course we know what the last of the Mohicans does to the Huron, Magua.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9SEFMIBwAs

[kAzE]

Should we do another poll? How about....

What calamity would you like to see happen in Chapel Hill?


Michael Jordan's letter from Coach K spontaneously combusts (reducing the smugness in that town by 12.5%)
A big snowfall causes the roof on the Dean Dome to collapse, ruining all 192 retired jerseys
Helms Foundation rescinds the 1924 "championship" due to academic irregularities
NCAA instructional video for referees released declaring 56% of Hansborough's points invalid because of charges, travels and over-the-back fouls not called
Massive sewage backup in the Dean Dome lasts for the first month of practice
Clemson wins in CH


Can we add the '05 AND '09 National Championships get vacated due to the academic ineligibility of the entirety of both rosters? I'd vote for that.

[OldPhiKap]

"Chancellor Mary Willingham met with head coach Rashad McCants today . . . ."

[NashvilleDevil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9SEFMIBwAs

Such a good movie and one of the great closing scenes.

[Olympic Fan]

The Quiet Man is a classic.

He is also great in The Longest a day although it is more cameo-esque than anything.

John Wayne benefited from his association with two of the great directors in film history, Howard Hawks and especially John Ford (IMO, American's greatest director).

Ford made Wayne a star in Stagecoach in 1939, rescuing him from B Movie obscurity. The problem was that Wayne's career was finally taking off when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. While many other Hollywood stars (including his mentor John Ford) were rushing to enlist, Wayne was doing everything possible to stay out of the draft. I know he was overage, but a lot of actors older than him (including Ford) didn't let that stop them. But to follow Wayne's efforts increasingly frantic efforts to avoid service is to make it impossible to take his hero image seriously.

That said, I still can't help admiring his body of work (thanks to Ford and Hawks). He was the No. 2 lead in the greatest WWII movie ever made (They Were Expendable). He was magnificent in Hawks' Red River. As OldPhiKap noted, he should have gotten an Oscar for The Quiet Man. To me, his best work was in Ford's cavalry trilogy: Fort Apache, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Rio Grande: "Where ever they rode and whatever they fought for became the United States of America." Oh, I take that back ... his greatest performance -- and one of the great performances in screen history -- was Ethan Edwards in The Searchers.

And I much prefer the 1969 version of True Grit (directed by the great Henry Hathaway) to the Coen Brothers version (although I love the Coen Brothers). Agree that Kim Darby was so obnoxious that I too was rooting for the snakes at the bottom of the pit, but I also think that's how Charles Portis wrote the character.

[throatybeard]

Such a good movie and one of the great closing scenes.

Dante Spinotti (the DP) sure had a career month, didn't he?

[throatybeard]

One of the weirdest things about the 1969 True Grit to me is that Roger Ebert--usually rather measured and gentlemanly in his descriptions of women in film--totally perved on what's her face in his review.

When she was about 23 and playing a 14 year old kid.

It was utterly bizarre. I can't remember whether it was the original review, or (or or or, if there was one) a "Great Films" review later. I'm not going to go back and check because it really creeped me out. I don't even want to look her name up. It just, ugh. Also, sweetie, lose that hat. Please. 45 years later, I'm still suffering from that hat, and I'm 37.

To me, the beauty of Ebert's career can be summed up in three reviews. The original review of Bonnie and Clyde, which he got spectacularly right at the age of 26, while the establishment got it spectacularly wrong; his review of Aguirre, Der Zorn Gottes; and his spectacular, savage takedown of the steaming pile of poo that is Dead Poets' Society (while hardly anyone seems to understand that, 25 years later).

He had some other amazing moments--Million Dollar Baby comes to mind, but those three are why I love him.

[sagegrouse]

To me, the beauty of Ebert's career can be summed up in three reviews. The original review of Bonnie and Clyde, which he got spectacularly right at the age of 26, while the establishment got it spectacularly wrong; .

Ah, yes! Bonnie and Clyde! The death of long-time NY Times film critic Bosley Crowther. He panned it, and the readership rose up in arms. He was toast.


"It is a cheap piece of bald-faced slapstick comedy that treats the hideous depredations of that sleazy, moronic pair as though they were as full of fun and frolic as the jazz-age cut-ups in Thoroughly Modern Millie... [S]uch ridiculous, camp-tinctured travesties of the kind of people these desperadoes were and of the way people lived in the dusty Southwest back in those barren years...."

He was not alone, of course. Time Magazine had reviews on successive weeks by the same critic, the second one reversing the negative opinion of the first.

[throatybeard]

Yeah Sage, it's amazing.

I'm not saying it's the best film of all time, but I've never seen one young man (Ebert, at 26) get something so spectacularly right that just about everyone else established at the time got spectacularly wrong. It's nuts.

The film is also exceptional for barely escaping (time-wise) the Hays Code. Used to be, you had to have a jump cut between the discharge of a gun and the impact thereof on the victim. I think it's a rather hilarious document of this country's prudishness that Faye Dunaway spends the first three minutes of the film as naked as Eve, but we don't see her below-neck parts...but this film revolutionized how violence is given to the camera. Suddenly, with this, and Wild Bunch and G/B/U and a few other films in that era, lotsa Pechinpah and Leone, you could shoot a guy without a jump cut. I think a lot of the contemporary negative reviews were really reacting to that, without their realizing it. We entered the modern era of the aestheticization of violence. This is the seed that planted the master that is Mssr Tarantino. Whom I admire tremendously, but who mostly is still skittish about nudity

It's simultaneously beautiful and horrible to me. We're now honest about shooting a guy in the chest, suddenly in 1967. Okay. But Faye Dunaway's bosom is still some sort of horror that children need to be protected from. If that doesn't sum up the last... 47 years of media in the USA, I don't know what does.

[hurleyfor3]

Something else about Ebert. (And another attempt at thread drift.) His favorite restaurant in Chicago was Mia Francesa, at 3311 North Clark. Over the years it has become a national chain, but this is still the original restaurant. If you find yourself in Chicago with a girl you want to spend the rest of your life with, take her here.

Y'all can debate what he knows about movies, but I wouldn't get in the way of his knowledge of food.

[Duvall]

Ah, yes! Bonnie and Clyde! The death of long-time NY Times film critic Bosley Crowther. He panned it, and the readership rose up in arms. He was toast.



He was not alone, of course. Time Magazine had reviews on successive weeks by the same critic, the second one reversing the negative opinion of the first.

To be fair, Crowther may have just been old enough to recall that Parker and Barrow were a sleazy and moronic pair.

[throatybeard]

To be fair, Crowther may have just been old enough to recall that Parker and Barrow were a sleazy and moronic pair.

Sure, but that's completely irrelevant. Hitler may have been a lousy guy, but that doesn't make Der Untergang a bad film.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Bob Green started a John Wayne poll years ago (which is still open). Happily, he listed "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" as an option; I'm surprised y'all haven't talked about it.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3419-John-Wayne-Movie-Poll

[throatybeard]

Bob Green started a John Wayne poll years ago (which is still open). Happily, he listed "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" as an option; I'm surprised y'all haven't talked about it.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3419-John-Wayne-Movie-Poll

Why on earth did he leave The Shootist out?

[rasputin]

Why on earth did he leave The Shootist out?

I'm particularly partial to these, in no particular order:

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Shootist
The Quiet Man
The Searchers
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Red River

honorable mention in the "guilty pleasure" category: Rio Bravo

[Olympic Fan]

I'm particularly partial to these, in no particular order:

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Shootist
The Quiet Man
The Searchers
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Red River

honorable mention in the "guilty pleasure" category: Rio Bravo

In particular order:

1. The Searchers
2. Red River
3. The Quiet Man
4. They Were Expendable
5. She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
6. True Grit
7. The Man Who Show Liberty Valence
8. Stagecoach
9. Fort Apache
10. Sands of Iowa Jima (I know his Stryker is a cliché, but this is the character that CREATED the cliché)
11. Big Jake (the best of his late movies)
12. The Shootist

Guilty pleasure: In Harm's Way

7

[Bob Green]

Bob Green started a John Wayne poll years ago (which is still open). Happily, he listed "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" as an option; I'm surprised y'all haven't talked about it.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3419-John-Wayne-Movie-Poll

I still like Donovan's Reef.

[CameronBornAndBred]

True Grit is on TV tonight. AMC I think.