Twerps kicking sand on their way out

[wilson]

Randy Edsall, Maryland football head coach, said yesterday at a Twerp booster event that he's excited because his team is "going to a football conference," and he's "not in a basketball conference anymore (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24626949/randy-edsall-terps-not-in-a-basketball-conference-anymore)."
Funny that...Edsall's ACC record in three seasons was 6-18. What will happen in that big, bad football conference?
For that matter, Twerp basketball wasn't especially successful of late either, with a perfectly average record of 41-41 in the past five seasons (even including 2009-10's 13-3 mark).
Ironically, I'll likely be following the Twerps even more closely in their early B1G years than I did in recent ACC campaigns, because it will be really fun to see those degenerates get their comeuppance.

[Here is a Turtle]

We still talk about Maryland here? Go figure.

[wilson]

We still talk about Maryland here? Go figure.Do we not talk about UConn? Or Kentucky? Or the various conference shifts of recent years? This is more relevant than all of those, because it involves a thoroughly mediocre coach taking sad, lame parting shots at our conference, which beat him like a drum throughout his tenure. Yeah, we're gonna keep talking about Maryland for a while as they embarrass themselves and further tarnish whatever athletic strength they had left.

[Henderson]

We still talk about Maryland here? Go figure.

I'm not lurking on any Maryland sports boards.

[hudlow]

I'm not lurking on any Maryland sports boards.


Ouch......that's gonna leave a mark.

[Here is a Turtle]

Ouch......that's gonna leave a mark.

Too busy counting that truckload of money to care about a Duke fan's opinion on my alma mater honestly.

But on a serious note, if I'm suddenly not allowed to be on this board now that Maryland is not in the ACC, please say so.

[-bdbd]

Too busy counting that truckload of money to care about a Duke fan's opinion on my alma mater honestly.

But on a serious note, if I'm suddenly not allowed to be on this board now that Maryland is not in the ACC, please say so.

Don't you have a couch to go burn or a car to overturn to celebrate the big move to a "football conference." ;)

Look, in all seriousness, I'm in the DC area and (1) most of the MD fans I know STILL obsess about Duke and the ACC, and (2) they pretty-much acknowledge that the first years in Big-10 football are going to be REALLY ugly. The optimistic ones think that, maybe, in 5 years their "increased prestige" will enable better recruiting to the point where they can start improving on the field, and maybe then be competitive on the field against their new rivals in nearby Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisc., Michigan, ILL, etc. I still genuinely LOL whenever I hear a Terp fan predict a budding rivalry with PSU in FB. :rolleyes: Happy Valley won't give them a second thought, and most of the Big10 fans I know are expecting the U of NJ (a.k.a. "Rutgers") to be their obvious natural rivals going forward. Time will tell.

I'll guess we'll know who that lucky school will be after their first Big-10 post-game riot in CP...

[Tom B.]

Too busy counting that truckload of money to care about a Duke fan's opinion on my alma mater honestly.

But on a serious note, if I'm suddenly not allowed to be on this board now that Maryland is not in the ACC, please say so.




Y'all are gonna need that truckload to pay your exit fee. In fact, why don't you just make it easy and tell the truck driver to head straight to Greensboro from Rosemont. Going to College Park would just be an unnecessary detour and a waste of fuel.


(Please note that this is offered in the spirit of just a little good-natured non-rivalry ribbing. As far as I'm concerned, you're still welcome here.)

[Here is a Turtle]

Don't you have a couch to go burn or a car to overturn to celebrate the big move to a "football conference." ;)

Look, in all seriousness, I'm in the DC area and (1) most of the MD fans I know STILL obsess about Duke and the ACC, and (2) they pretty-much acknowledge that the first years in Big-10 football are going to be REALLY ugly. The optimistic ones think that, maybe, in 5 years their "increased prestige" will enable better recruiting to the point where they can start improving on the field, and maybe then be competitive on the field against their new rivals in nearby Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisc., Michigan, ILL, etc. I still genuinely LOL whenever I hear a Terp fan predict a budding rivalry with PSU in FB. :rolleyes: Happy Valley won't give them a second thought, and most of the Big10 fans I know are expecting the U of NJ (a.k.a. "Rutgers") to be their obvious natural rivals going forward. Time will tell.

I'll guess we'll know who that lucky school will be after their first Big-10 post-game riot in CP...

Flipping cars is what UConn does. Seriously. My cousin just graduated there and that is almost a guarantee every year with them.

But I agree with you on a couple points. Big 10 football is going to be an uphill climb. I think that we will be competitive and potentially make a bowl game this year, but I definitely don't expect a winning record in conference play for a few years. As for PSU, that is more for older fans. Younger fans and students usually are pretty cool with Penn State considering that the last time the two schools played in football was before we were born. A lot of students know a bunch of people that go there. West Virginia is usually where the venom comes out as far as students go.

As for the Duke obsession, most MD fans and students I know are over the ACC and Duke and just want to move on. We're done with the ACC. No need to keep bringing it up. Most people just talk about how bad Raycom was and that Maryland games won't be thrown on ESPN3 so often.

*And we have extra truckloads coming. But I'm kinda hoping Plank will just be a good sugar daddy and pitch in on throwing the school more money. Build that soccer stadium and whatnot...

[Faison1]

Flipping cars is what UConn does. Seriously. My cousin just graduated there and that is almost a guarantee every year with them.

But I agree with you on a couple points. Big 10 football is going to be an uphill climb. I think that we will be competitive and potentially make a bowl game this year, but I definitely don't expect a winning record in conference play for a few years. As for PSU, that is more for older fans. Younger fans and students usually are pretty cool with Penn State considering that the last time the two schools played in football was before we were born. A lot of students know a bunch of people that go there. West Virginia is usually where the venom comes out as far as students go.

As for the Duke obsession, most MD fans and students I know are over the ACC and Duke and just want to move on. We're done with the ACC. No need to keep bringing it up. Most people just talk about how bad Raycom was and that Maryland games won't be thrown on ESPN3 so often.

*And we have extra truckloads coming. But I'm kinda hoping Plank will just be a good sugar daddy and pitch in on throwing the school more money. Build that soccer stadium and whatnot...

Hey, I hope you stick around....I definitely want to hear what's going on in Big10 country.

Having lived in Baltimore, I can honestly say there is no way you guys are past the Duke Obsession. Not many people new I was a Duke fan, thankfully. Absolutely everyday I would overhear some sort of comment about Duke....even on airplanes between random people boarding the plane...."It was a rough season, but at least we beat Duke!" (Except it would be much more colorful and offensive).

Regardless of what you say, there will always be a hole where Duke was for your fanbase....especially when Duke wins big things in the future.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Hey, I hope you stick around....I definitely want to hear what's going on in Big10 country.

Having lived in Baltimore, I can honestly say there is no way you guys are past the Duke Obsession. Not many people new I was a Duke fan, thankfully. Absolutely everyday I would overhear some sort of comment about Duke....even on airplanes between random people boarding the plane...."It was a rough season, but at least we beat Duke!" (Except it would be much more colorful and offensive).

Regardless of what you say, there will always be a hole where Duke was for your fanbase....especially when Duke wins big things in the future.

Far be it from me to defend the actions of MaryLand, but it does seem a bit disingenuous for anyone to pretend to be shocked in this day and age that a sports decision was made for money reasons.

[budwom]

It would be wise to keep in mind that Maryland's money woes were self inflicted due to idiotic management. Just one horrendous mistake after another.
Switching conferences will do nothing to improve the decision making in College Park.

[Here is a Turtle]

It would be wise to keep in mind that Maryland's money woes were self inflicted due to idiotic management. Just one horrendous mistake after another.
Switching conferences will do nothing to improve the decision making in College Park.

A lot of damage was caused by the previous AD, Debbie Yow, who is currently at NC State. Basically, when the early 2000s happened and Maryland was a top ten team in football and basketball, Yow began building on the football stadium and adding premium seating and built the Comcast Center. She was banking on the fact that the attendance would keep increasing because both teams would put a good product on the field. Then Fridgen and Williams forgot how to recruit and the results were middling at best and attendance plummeted, especially in football.

Maryland had a huge rainy day fund set up from the basketball teams success in the 90s and 2000s and used it to pay off the rising debt. Yow also rubbed a lot of boosters the wrong way, and basically slowed down athletic donations to a crawl. Once she realized how bad the situation got, Yow looked for an out which came from NC State. She took the job and left the athletic department in a ton of debt. The positive thing she did was make the Maryland non-revs more well rounded, especially in soccer where I wish that money to expand the football stadium went.

But that still does not dismiss that her decisions, however right or wrong they were at the time, is a large part of the reason that things unfolded like they did. There was talk about Maryland to the Big Ten for at least 5 years.



Hey, I hope you stick around....I definitely want to hear what's going on in Big10 country.

Having lived in Baltimore, I can honestly say there is no way you guys are past the Duke Obsession. Not many people new I was a Duke fan, thankfully. Absolutely everyday I would overhear some sort of comment about Duke....even on airplanes between random people boarding the plane...."It was a rough season, but at least we beat Duke!" (Except it would be much more colorful and offensive).

Regardless of what you say, there will always be a hole where Duke was for your fanbase....especially when Duke wins big things in the future.

Again, from a student perspective, most just want to leave the ACC and be done with it. I think the Duke obsession is overstated here. Do a lot of people still care? Of course, it's fresh. Will people care in five years? I'd argue no, especially if Maryland/Georgetown happens consistently after the B10/BEast challenge forces them to play each other.
I've said this once before, but it is worth repeating, in ten years, most students will not know or care about this rivalry unless its in lacrosse or something, even then Hopkins wins by a mile there, just like most current students don't have a problem with Penn State.

[Henderson]

Again, from a student perspective, most just want to leave the ACC and be done with it. I think the Duke obsession is overstated here. Do a lot of people still care? Of course, it's fresh. Will people care in five years? I'd argue no, especially if Maryland/Georgetown happens consistently after the B10/BEast challenge forces them to play each other.
I've said this once before, but it is worth repeating, in ten years, most students will not know or care about this rivalry unless its in lacrosse or something, even then Hopkins wins by a mile there, just like most current students don't have a problem with Penn State.

You've posted 250 times here in a little over a year. So I don't think you're a particularly good case in point for the claim that there is no Duke obsession among MD fans. Glad to have you here, enjoy your posts, but don't feign a lack of Duke obsession.

P.S. Maryland = not our rival.

[OldPhiKap]

The ACC will be fine without Maryland.

Maryland will be fine without the ACC.

Next play.

[Bob Green]

Then Fridgen and Williams forgot how to recruit and the results were middling at best and attendance plummeted, especially in football.

Ralph Friedgen was 75-50 as the Maryland Head Coach. His teams went to bowl games in seven out of 10 years. He was fired at the end of a 9-4 season (2010) including a 51-20 victory over East Carolina in the Military Bowl. Maryland's four losses were @West Virginia, @Clemson, @Miami and Florida State. The team went 6-1 at home. Coach Friedgen was the ACC Coach of the Year.

Attendance may have plummeted, but it wasn't because Maryland was not winning.

[budwom]

Back when Merlin made the decision to leave, some polling was done among Merlin and B1G fans.
It was pretty interesting in that the majority of Merlin fans polled did not want to leave the ACC, and
the majority of B1G area fans did not want Merlin in their conference.

One of those rare lose-lose mergers.

[ricks68]

I'm not lurking on any Maryland sports boards.

I'd spork you a good one on that, but have to spread some more around before I get to you again. Excellent retort!:D

ricks

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Back when Merlin made the decision to leave, some polling was done among Merlin and B1G fans.
It was pretty interesting in that the majority of Merlin fans polled did not want to leave the ACC, and
the majority of B1G area fans did not want Merlin in their conference.

One of those rare lose-lose mergers.

Except that your "lose-lose" completely negates the financial aspect. If UM felt their sports programs (for whatever reasons) were not financially solvent, they had an obligation to make a move. If the Big Whatever felt that adding Maryland gave them stronger east coast markets and a better TV footprint, you can see their perspective too. Ignoring the money trail and wishing that things could go back to the 8 team conference and good old rivalries is nice and all, but pretending that the reasons don't exist is just silly.

ACC fans don't like it. UM fans don't like it. Big Ten fans don't like it. But it isn't a "lose-lose."

I went to a tiny college that made lots of unpopular financial decisions while I was attending. Given the economic complications of the last ten years, it's quite likely that my small school would have gone under without the tough choices they made at the time.

I would argue that if Maryland really did have to make this move to survive, and the ACC basically traded them for Louisville, this could be a "win-win." Time will tell I suppose.

Until we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I will be satisfied with not having to watch our players get abused by fans in College Park.

[Tom B.]

I've said this once before, but it is worth repeating, in ten years, most students will not know or care about this rivalry unless its in lacrosse or something, even then Hopkins wins by a mile there, just like most current students don't have a problem with Penn State.



Well, yeah -- they won't care about the (non-)rivalry because we won't be playing each other regularly anymore. UNC and South Carolina had a pretty pitched rivalry back in the 1960s and early 1970s, especially after South Carolina hired UNC's old coach. Then South Carolina left the conference and the rivalry rapidly became an afterthought. A healthy dose of bitterness and resentment lingered on the South Carolina side for a while, but that eventually dissipated for the same reason you noted -- as a new generation of students who'd never had firsthand exposure to the rivalry passed through the school, the rivalry just became a progressively less important part of the fan base's consciousness.

Truth be told, while I think the Maryland obsession with Duke is still alive and well, I feel like its intensity level has been....well, not waning, but maybe flattening a bit lately, even before Maryland bolted for the Big Can't Count Conference. It took off in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when Maryland started to become really good, but still....just.....couldn't....beat....Duke (at least, not when it counted). Things really went nuclear on the Maryland side in 2001, after the Gone in 60 Seconds game and Duke's huge comeback win over Maryland at the Final Four. I really thought that Maryland winning the national title in 2002 would finally extinguish the inferiority/persecution complex that permeated its fanbase, but it didn't. It stayed at fever pitch for a few more years -- but ultimately, as with all things, generational migration took over.

The kids who are students at Maryland right now were in grade school or younger in the late 1990s and early 2000s, so those years and events probably didn't leave as big an imprint. Rather than knowing Maryland as a great, championship-caliber team for several years running, the Maryland team that's existed for most of their lives is a mediocre-to-OK program that sometimes makes the NCAA Tournament, but hasn't made any real noise there in a while (the last time Maryland made the Sweet 16 was eleven years ago!). The new generation isn't going to care as much about stoking the old grudges and rivalries if all they've ever really known the team to be is a rather average product.

[Olympic Fan]

Truth be told, while I think the Maryland obsession with Duke is still alive and well, I feel like its intensity level has been....well, not waning, but maybe flattening a bit lately, even before Maryland bolted for the Big Can't Count Conference. It took off in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when Maryland started to become really good, but still....just.....couldn't....beat....Duke (at least, not when it counted). Things really went nuclear on the Maryland side in 2001, after the Gone in 60 Seconds game and Duke's huge comeback win over Maryland at the Final Four. I really thought that Maryland winning the national title in 2002 would finally extinguish the inferiority/persecution complex that permeated its fanbase, but it didn't. It stayed at fever pitch for a few more years -- but ultimately, as with all things, generational migration took over.

I agree with this timeline ... I know that through the late 1990s, Gary Williams and the Maryland fanbase was incredibly frustrated with their inability to beat Duke. That frustration peaked in 1999 when the great Stevie Francis/Terrence Morris team was flattened twice by Duke.

But the series changed, not in 2001, but in 2000. Duke went up and whacked the Terps in January (to extend it's winning streak in the series to six straight and 29-5 since 1985). But the next month, Maryland came to Cameron and snapped the longest ACC home winning streak in history. Duke did bounce back to beat Maryland in the ACC Tournament. The four great 2001 games followed. Between that 2000 win and the end of the 2007 season,, Duke-Maryland was as competitive as any series in college basketball -- Duke held a 10-8 edge, only because of a number of close wins -- that was an oddity of that stretch -- Duke won all the close games ... Maryland's wins were all fairly lopsided.

But after 2007, it's been fairly one-sided again. There was a great Maryland win in College Park late in 2010 that gave the Terps a share of the ACC regular season title and two wins in three games in 2013, but basically Duke dominated -- 13-3 after 2007 ... and that took a bit of heat out of the rivalry.

PS Just one addition/quibble with Here Is a Turtle's take on how Debbie Yow got Maryland into such a financial hole. You left out the 2007 economic collapse -- and that wasn't Debbie Yow's fault (I couldn't talk about whose fault it was without getting into PP territory). The economic downturn hurt everybody -- but because Maryland had committed to a massive rebuilding program -- based on projected fund-raising, the Terps were hurt worse than anybody. Their experience explains why Duke is being so slow and careful with its current athletic building project. They don't want to get caught if the economy turns again.

[Here is a Turtle]

You've posted 250 times here in a little over a year. So I don't think you're a particularly good case in point for the claim that there is no Duke obsession among MD fans. Glad to have you here, enjoy your posts, but don't feign a lack of Duke obsession.

P.S. Maryland = not our rival.

Sigh..... You're never going to get it and to try to make you get it is a waste of my time. You have been posting these retorts at me for months now.


Ralph Friedgen was 75-50 as the Maryland Head Coach. His teams went to bowl games in seven out of 10 years. He was fired at the end of a 9-4 season (2010) including a 51-20 victory over East Carolina in the Military Bowl. Maryland's four losses were @West Virginia, @Clemson, @Miami and Florida State. The team went 6-1 at home. Coach Friedgen was the ACC Coach of the Year.

Attendance may have plummeted, but it wasn't because Maryland was not winning.

Remove the three years when he was using Vanderlinden's players (01-03), and he was a mediocre coach who did not want to recruit. His last year was great but that season was a victim of what happened with UVA basketball. He did not really beat anyone notable outside of NC State. And the year before was a 2-10 year that easily could have been 0-12. He was up for contract renewal, and the new AD did not want to extend a contract to a guy in his mid 60s who was mediocre when using his players. Not saying I agree with the decision, but I get it.


The ACC will be fine without Maryland.

Maryland will be fine without the ACC.

Next play.

This.

[gumbomoop]

I hope Turtle stays around, at least for one more season, as I need some optimism re the Terps' prospects for making the 2015 NCAAT. Having placed a friendly wager [I told you so/I am a dimwit] with Olympic Fan, I find myself in the unenviable, if not ban-inducing, position of needing to "support" the Terps, at least just barely enough to hope they'll sneak in as the 68th team. Happy for the ESPN bloviators and Internets to melt down at their inclusion, over, I don't know, Cincy, Georgetown, Arkansas, somebody. Ok by me if they lose in Dayton by 30, but need them to get there. Otherwise, have to admit to dimwittery.

If Turtle is willing to support my "support" for Dez and Jake, I certainly can support his whimsical name change to There Goes a Turtle. Don't go just yet.

[Newton_14]

Except that your "lose-lose" completely negates the financial aspect. If UM felt their sports programs (for whatever reasons) were not financially solvent, they had an obligation to make a move. If the Big Whatever felt that adding Maryland gave them stronger east coast markets and a better TV footprint, you can see their perspective too. Ignoring the money trail and wishing that things could go back to the 8 team conference and good old rivalries is nice and all, but pretending that the reasons don't exist is just silly.

ACC fans don't like it. UM fans don't like it. Big Ten fans don't like it. But it isn't a "lose-lose."

I went to a tiny college that made lots of unpopular financial decisions while I was attending. Given the economic complications of the last ten years, it's quite likely that my small school would have gone under without the tough choices they made at the time.

I would argue that if Maryland really did have to make this move to survive, and the ACC basically traded them for Louisville, this could be a "win-win." Time will tell I suppose.

Until we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I will be satisfied with not having to watch our players get abused by fans in College Park.

Your last line says it all for me. As a lifetime triangle area resident and ACC Traditionalist, I did not want to lose a charter member, however, I will not miss the cursing chants that came through the ESPN TV audio, nor the abuse like the parents (Boozer;s mom) the players (JJ/Scheyer) took at games in College Park

[Tom B.]

I know that through the late 1990s, Gary Williams and the Maryland fanbase was incredibly frustrated with their inability to beat Duke. That frustration peaked in 1999 when the great Stevie Francis/Terrence Morris team was flattened twice by Duke.




Speaking of great flattenings in Duke-Maryland history, let's not forget the previous year (1998), when Duke utterly humiliated a pretty good Maryland team twice, by a combined margin of 59 points.

The first game, in College Park, started with Trajan Langdon nailing a three-pointer right off the opening tip, and Duke never looked back. Duke was up 61-39 at halftime and cruised to a 104-72 victory.

The second game, in Durham, was the game in which Gary Williams got two technicals and was tossed with less than six minutes elapsed in the first half. His ejection came in the middle of a 28-4 run by Duke, who went on to win 86-59.

Good times.

[Faison1]

I've said this once before, but it is worth repeating, in ten years, most students will not know or care about this rivalry unless its in lacrosse or something, even then Hopkins wins by a mile there, just like most current students don't have a problem with Penn State.

Most students, ESPECIALLY at Maryland, are idiots. The people I heard and saw exchanging colorful pleasantries about Duke were not students. They were adults in the workplace, people in airports, jacklegs at bars. It was not a healthy environment.

At least with UNC, there seems to be some sort of sense of humor and sometimes respect amongst their fans. With Maryland inhabitants, it was a deep seeded hate mixed with unbridled viciousness directed towards anyone in dark blue.

So, no, you're kidding yourself if you think that's disappearing anywhere else than the surface.

[CameronBornAndBred]

A lot of damage was caused by the previous AD, Debbie Yow, who is currently at NC State. Basically, when the early 2000s happened and Maryland was a top ten team in football and basketball, Yow began building on the football stadium and adding premium seating and built the Comcast Center. She was banking on the fact that the attendance would keep increasing because both teams would put a good product on the field. Then Fridgen and Williams forgot how to recruit and the results were middling at best and attendance plummeted, especially in football.

Maryland had a huge rainy day fund set up from the basketball teams success in the 90s and 2000s and used it to pay off the rising debt. Yow also rubbed a lot of boosters the wrong way, and basically slowed down athletic donations to a crawl. Once she realized how bad the situation got, Yow looked for an out which came from NC State. She took the job and left the athletic department in a ton of debt. The positive thing she did was make the Maryland non-revs more well rounded, especially in soccer where I wish that money to expand the football stadium went.

But that still does not dismiss that her decisions, however right or wrong they were at the time, is a large part of the reason that things unfolded like they did. There was talk about Maryland to the Big Ten for at least 5 years.




Again, from a student perspective, most just want to leave the ACC and be done with it. I think the Duke obsession is overstated here. Do a lot of people still care? Of course, it's fresh. Will people care in five years? I'd argue no, especially if Maryland/Georgetown happens consistently after the B10/BEast challenge forces them to play each other.
I've said this once before, but it is worth repeating, in ten years, most students will not know or care about this rivalry unless its in lacrosse or something, even then Hopkins wins by a mile there, just like most current students don't have a problem with Penn State.
That is a solid post, I appreciate the history lesson from a Terp's perspective. I read your comments on the football aspect, and I wonder with an apprehensive fear that Duke is heading down the same road. I'd rather see our team succeed for a little while longer before we make the bold changes that we are. Some of them are long overdue, such as the removal of the track, but I don't agree with the new seating and the rebuilding of the press box. Parking is due to be a disaster in the coming seasons with changes in Iron Duke pass requirements. I would much rather see us prove that we can fill the seats and the parking lots we currently have before we start charging a premium for those amenities. Last year was a great football season, but if you were there all year, you saw the numbers on game day actually decrease. Charge more, and you will see more of the same I fear.
There is a lot that any team can learn from Maryland's mistakes; Duke would be wise to view them in depth.

[weezie]

Parking is due to be a disaster in the coming seasons with changes in Iron Duke pass requirements. I would much rather see us prove that we can fill the seats and the parking lots we currently have before we start charging a premium for those amenities.

Hear, hear brother. We've got a running joke in this family that if we ever have 35 mil in loose change sitting around we're going to donate/build the 'weezie family' Duke parking structure for the benefit of all Duke sport fans and ensure that no Duke fan has to pay for parking ever again. Sure, visiting team fans have to pay though. Some kind of a forehead tattoo will be involved, I think.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

There is a lot that any team can learn from Maryland's mistakes; Duke would be wise to view them in depth.

But it is so much easier and so much more fun to make poke at our little cousin instead of learning from their mistakes.

[Bob Green]

I'd rather see our team succeed for a little while longer before we make the bold changes that we are. Some of them are long overdue, such as the removal of the track, but I don't agree with the new seating and the rebuilding of the press box.

I agree the track needs to go as part of a stadium renovation. What I don't know/understand is the details of the renovation. What renovations need to take place? Does the press box need to be rebuilt? I have no idea. Do more seats need to be added? I don't think so because we can't fill the stadium to capacity as is. My expectation is attendance will be up in 2014, but I expected the same in 2013 and it did not happen. As far as Luxury Boxes being added, who is going to rent them?

It seems Duke is moving forward slowly by ensuring funding is in place prior to renovations being executed. That is a very smart strategy. I am not excited by the prospect of parking become more difficult or my season ticket prices increasing.

[DU82]

I agree the track needs to go as part of a stadium renovation. What I don't know/understand is the details of the renovation. What renovations need to take place? Does the press box need to be rebuilt? I have no idea. Do more seats need to be added? I don't think so because we can't fill the stadium to capacity as is. My expectation is attendance will be up in 2014, but I expected the same in 2013 and it did not happen. As far as Luxury Boxes being added, who is going to rent them?

It seems Duke is moving forward slowly by ensuring funding is in place prior to renovations being executed. That is a very smart strategy. I am not excited by the prospect of parking become more difficult or my season ticket prices increasing.

Here's links to the site plans submitted to the City for the east gate renovations and west tower (press box) and concourse modifications. (Can't find the stadium modification/track removal plans right now. The City may have removed them. There's a previous thread on this subject.)

http://durhamnc.gov/ich/cb/ccpd/DevRev/D1400203%20Duke%20Wallace%20Wade%20West%20Tower%20 Site%20Plan%20(1st%20Review).pdf

http://durhamnc.gov/ich/cb/ccpd/DevRev/D1400073%20Duke%20University%20Wallace%20Wade%20Ea st%20Entry%20(1st%20review%20SP%20Set).pdf

I was originally against the track removal, as I didn't see why we would remove the chances of hosting a major meet, plus spending money on building something we already had. But a story about the track team changed my mind. They have very limited access to facilities during football season, since the football team had priority. With schedules so tight, multi-function facilities create a problem. It's one reason Duke built the new basketball practice facility, so that Cameron could be used primarily for games/matches.

Same with the sports medicine facility. The sports facilities team doesn't get access to the facility until late Friday evening, after the medical teams are finished. It also limits the medical side from providing services during fall weekends.

What worked in the '20s and '80s (when the stadium and track were built, and when the sports medicine facility was opened) isn't necessarily the case now. Same with other facilities across campus, most noteworthy the library and union right now. Of course, there's the thought that the new club seating will provide additional revenue, hopefully paying for itself. But most of the changes are to bring WW up to modern standards (the bathrooms, as I'm sure you know, date back to the original stadium. The new facilities are very much appreciated!)

Regarding the stadium changes, there's a story on GoDuke.com, written by Al Featherston, on the facility upgrade plans
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22634&SPID=1841&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209543028

the first changes to be finished will be removing the track, lowering the field about five feet, and adding about seven rows of seats on the sidelines, and ten in the end zone. The field will be centered in the bowl (moving it about 2.5 yards towards the closed end.) It seems from publicity/articles (but a detail not shown in the site plans) that the new stadium walls will have a "Duke Stone" veneer similar to the facade on the new bathroom facilities. This should be completed in time for the 2015 season.

The east gate will be moved a little towards the open end of the stadium, and the concourse will be leveled and "enhanced" (my word) by putting in a difference surface and removing the asphalt. New concession stands will be included. The president's box will be removed with new handicapped accessible seating at the top of most sections added. This also should be completed for the 2015 season.

The west tower (press box) will also include leveling the concourse, with the entrance being modified to include a bridge connecting it to the second level of the press box, and ramps going down to the entrance to the main concourse. (From a grade standpoint, this makes sense, the entrance currently is well above the concourse at the top of the seating area.)

There's also plans for a multi-level parking deck to be built on the current 751 lot starting in early 2015. This will provide parking for sporting events, but primarily serve the business and law schools.

[Capn Poptart]

In a weird way, both sides ultimately emerged as winners.

Maryland has had a large chip on its shoulder for decades, living some kind of Nixonian paranoia about Duke, the ACC and the state of North Carolina. If they lost a big game, or attendance flagged, or they weren't showcased by ESPN, well, everybody was against the Terps.

Or, at the very least, Maryland was in an inferior position, because the North Carolina schools had the protection of some sort of ACC version of the Knights Templar. The refs, the conference brass, the media, all swearing oaths under a full Greensboro moon, conspiring to deny Maryland its true potential.

Now, Maryland's debts have conspired to lure them from a place they haven't been happy for years. They have what they always seemed to want.

And ACC fans get to replace an eternally disgruntled fan base with one that's elated.

Funny how things work out.

[formerdukeathlete]

Here's links to the site plans submitted to the City for the east gate renovations and west tower (press box) and concourse modifications. (Can't find the stadium modification/track removal plans right now. The City may have removed them. There's a previous thread on this subject.)

http://durhamnc.gov/ich/cb/ccpd/DevRev/D1400203%20Duke%20Wallace%20Wade%20West%20Tower%20 Site%20Plan%20(1st%20Review).pdf

http://durhamnc.gov/ich/cb/ccpd/DevRev/D1400073%20Duke%20University%20Wallace%20Wade%20Ea st%20Entry%20(1st%20review%20SP%20Set).pdf

I was originally against the track removal, as I didn't see why we would remove the chances of hosting a major meet, plus spending money on building something we already had. But a story about the track team changed my mind. They have very limited access to facilities during football season, since the football team had priority. With schedules so tight, multi-function facilities create a problem. It's one reason Duke built the new basketball practice facility, so that Cameron could be used primarily for games/matches.

Same with the sports medicine facility. The sports facilities team doesn't get access to the facility until late Friday evening, after the medical teams are finished. It also limits the medical side from providing services during fall weekends.

What worked in the '20s and '80s (when the stadium and track were built, and when the sports medicine facility was opened) isn't necessarily the case now. Same with other facilities across campus, most noteworthy the library and union right now. Of course, there's the thought that the new club seating will provide additional revenue, hopefully paying for itself. But most of the changes are to bring WW up to modern standards (the bathrooms, as I'm sure you know, date back to the original stadium. The new facilities are very much appreciated!)

Regarding the stadium changes, there's a story on GoDuke.com, written by Al Featherston, on the facility upgrade plans
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22634&SPID=1841&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209543028

the first changes to be finished will be removing the track, lowering the field about five feet, and adding about seven rows of seats on the sidelines, and ten in the end zone. The field will be centered in the bowl (moving it about 2.5 yards towards the closed end.) It seems from publicity/articles (but a detail not shown in the site plans) that the new stadium walls will have a "Duke Stone" veneer similar to the facade on the new bathroom facilities. This should be completed in time for the 2015 season.

The east gate will be moved a little towards the open end of the stadium, and the concourse will be leveled and "enhanced" (my word) by putting in a difference surface and removing the asphalt. New concession stands will be included. The president's box will be removed with new handicapped accessible seating at the top of most sections added. This also should be completed for the 2015 season.

The west tower (press box) will also include leveling the concourse, with the entrance being modified to include a bridge connecting it to the second level of the press box, and ramps going down to the entrance to the main concourse. (From a grade standpoint, this makes sense, the entrance currently is well above the concourse at the top of the seating area.)

There's also plans for a multi-level parking deck to be built on the current 751 lot starting in early 2015. This will provide parking for sporting events, but primarily serve the business and law schools.

4246

The differences between the plans for lowering the field which you linked in the other thread and the plans which were highlighted in President Brodhead's Athletic Department fundraising video were that the rows of added seating along each sideline varied in elevation as well length - more seats were added on the sidelines in the fundraising video.

In the field lowering plan highlighted in the other thread, one set of continuous rows of seats were added as the field was lowered. The number of rows added and the length of these rows were limited as the oval of such seats approached NCAA minimum distances from the sidelines.

In the fundraising video, a second set of seats and rows were added within the first oval. The length and numbers of rows added within the rows in the second oval were again limited by minimum required distances from the sidelines as these seats were added. In the fundraising video, in effect, we added two concentric sets of ovals of rows of seats along each sideline rather than a single set of rows.

This creates a more intimate venue (seating is closer to the field at the 50 yard line).

I have read some things out of the Athletic Department which suggest that the field lowering plan may be in the process of being tweaked.

[DU82]

4246

The differences between the plans for lowering the field which you linked in the other thread and the plans which were highlighted in President Brodhead's Athletic Department fundraising video were that the rows of added seating along each sideline varied in elevation as well length - more seats were added on the sidelines in the fundraising video.

In the field lowering plan highlighted in the other thread, one set of continuous rows of seats were added as the field was lowered. The number of rows added and the length of these rows were limited as the oval of such seats approached NCAA minimum distances from the sidelines.

In the fundraising video, a second set of seats and rows were added within the first oval. The length and numbers of rows added within the rows in the second oval were again limited by minimum required distances from the sidelines as these seats were added. In the fundraising video, in effect, we added two concentric sets of ovals of rows of seats along each sideline rather than a single set of rows.

This creates a more intimate venue (seating is closer to the field at the 50 yard line).

I have read some things out of the Athletic Department which suggest that the field lowering plan may be in the process of being tweaked.

If you have specifics about the last item, please provide a link. Otherwise I'm not interested in repeating the same thread from TDD.

[blazindw]

I agree the track needs to go as part of a stadium renovation. What I don't know/understand is the details of the renovation. What renovations need to take place? Does the press box need to be rebuilt? I have no idea. Do more seats need to be added? I don't think so because we can't fill the stadium to capacity as is. My expectation is attendance will be up in 2014, but I expected the same in 2013 and it did not happen. As far as Luxury Boxes being added, who is going to rent them?

It seems Duke is moving forward slowly by ensuring funding is in place prior to renovations being executed. That is a very smart strategy. I am not excited by the prospect of parking become more difficult or my season ticket prices increasing.

The gradual adding of the seats, replacing the bleachers, will be how we can add rows and still not increase in capacity that much. I believe in the end, the entire stadium with the exception of the student section will be actual seats. I know initially expansion plans would have seen capacity go up into the neighborhood of 45,000, but I think those plans have been tempered a little bit to the high-30s.

[JasonEvans]

when the early 2000s happened and Maryland was a top ten team in football and basketball,

There is a little bit of revisionist history going on here. In 2001-2003, the Terps were ranked #11, #13, and #17 in the AP poll at the end of the year. They were ranked inside the top ten a grand total of 3 weeks during those 3 years (twice at #10, once at #6). In 2002 and 2003, they were barely a top 25 team all season long, but managed to win their bowl game and valuted into the teens as a result. But, to describe the football program as "Top ten" during the early 2000s may be overstating things a bit.


Big 10 football is going to be an uphill climb. I think that we will be competitive and potentially make a bowl game this year, but I definitely don't expect a winning record in conference play for a few years.

I think projecting Maryland to make a bowl game their first season in the Big Ten is quite a leap. Last year, Maryland barely snuck their way into a lower-tier bowl and got whupped by Marshall in that bowl game. This coming season, they get a gift from the Big Ten by playing Rutgers, but the rest of their Big Ten slate is pretty tough (outside of Indiana). Teams like Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan St, Wisconsin, Penn St, and even Iowa are probably going to make a mess of Maryland. Maybe the Terps will surprise and do better than expected in the Big Ten (and I'd love to see it happen, because it would reflect well on the ACC), but I am not sure I see it.

-Jason "I am hoping Maryland can be more competitive in Big Ten basketball, though I am not overly optimistic -- I don't think much of Turgeon as a coach" Evans

[formerdukeathlete]

If you have specifics about the last item, please provide a link. Otherwise I'm not interested in repeating the same thread from TDD.

Apologies to the mods for touching again on the stadium which became part of this thread.

"Cragg said plans are for Wallace Wade Stadium’s track to be removed, the playing field lowered and around 4,000 new seats along the field added in time for the 2015 season." http://www.heraldsun.com/news/localnews/x1550126311/Signs-of-whats-to-come-at-Wallace-Wade

July 8th Herald Sun.

What I am interested in is that our folks at Duke may be taking another look at how to lower the field. The fundraising video depicted lowering the field 10 feet or more, adding more seating on the sidelines (about 60 to 70% more). More rows of end-zone seating would be added as well.

Virginia Tech's stadium illustrates converging an oval shape as close as possible to the field. Notice how intimate a setting is achieved at Virginia Tech. What is proposed in the Fundraising video is simpler - 2 concentric ovals as the stadium is brought down rather than the 4 in Lane Stadium. But it does achieve a much more intimate setting for Wade than when lowering the field 5 feet and adding a little less than 3k in seats.

4255

[Duvall]

If you have specifics about the last item...

Why would you do this

[Duvall]

I hope Turtle stays around, at least for one more season, as I need some optimism re the Terps' prospects for making the 2015 NCAAT. Having placed a friendly wager [I told you so/I am a dimwit] with Olympic Fan, I find myself in the unenviable, if not ban-inducing, position of needing to "support" the Terps, at least just barely enough to hope they'll sneak in as the 68th team. Happy for the ESPN bloviators and Internets to melt down at their inclusion, over, I don't know, Cincy, Georgetown, Arkansas, somebody. Ok by me if they lose in Dayton by 30, but need them to get there. Otherwise, have to admit to dimwittery.

If Turtle is willing to support my "support" for Dez and Jake, I certainly can support his whimsical name change to There Goes a Turtle. Don't go just yet.

Wager update. (http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80969768/)


Trayvon Reed’s career as a Maryland basketball player has ended before it even began, after his arrest Wednesday night in College Park caused the athletic department to prohibit him from enrolling in classes.

...

Reed was arrested shortly before midnight Wednesday following an incident outside a 7-Eleven convenience store on Route 1, adjacent to campus.

According to court documents, two plainclothes officers working in the store saw Reed putting a Twix ice cream bar into his pants pocket and leaving the store without paying.

[FerryFor50]

Wager update. (http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80969768/)

Weird. Career over for a kid because he stole a Twix ice cream bar, but this guy steals crab legs (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24563606/video-james-winston-leaving-publix-with-crab-legs) (which are WAY more expensive) and still is in school, playing both football and baseball?

Yea, that seems about right.

(granted, part of the issue sounds like he fought the officer. But I wonder if the officer produced proof he was an officer)

[camion]

Weird. Career over for a kid because he stole a Twix ice cream bar, but this guy steals crab legs (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24563606/video-james-winston-leaving-publix-with-crab-legs) (which are WAY more expensive) and still is in school, playing both football and baseball?

Yea, that seems about right.

(granted, part of the issue sounds like he fought the officer. But I wonder if the officer produced proof he was an officer)

Does this mean I gain respect for Maryland or lose respect for FSU?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Does this mean I gain respect for Maryland or lose respect for FSU?
In Tallahassee, the officers would have looked the other way and counted to 100.

[gumbomoop]

Wager update. (http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80969768/)

Yep, looks as if I'm on the road to dimwittery. Hope not to achieve Reed's level of dimwittery.

[budwom]

Primary conclusion: really tall guys can hide a whole lot of stuff in their pants.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Primary conclusion: really tall guys can hide a whole lot of stuff in their pants.

Can you please cite your source so that I can evaluate your statement?

/just kidding from the other thread
//it is pretty dumb that "Ice Cream Twix" > "Crab Legs"

[throatybeard]

We still talk about Maryland here? Go figure.

Exactly. Maryland should no longer be an issue here. (No offense, good sir--you're a cool poster). It's just sad that we're even talking about them at all. The fact that we are proves that we're total posers when we say there's no rivalry.

Fortunately for us, Maryland will be in the Big Midwestern Conference that can't Count Low Integers, and in five years we will have achieved conscious decoupling from Maryland.

I occasionally encounter Maryland people in bars in North Carolina. I have yet to meet one who thinks the move to the B1G is a good idea.

[alteran]

Weird. Career over for a kid because he stole a Twix ice cream bar, but this guy steals crab legs (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24563606/video-james-winston-leaving-publix-with-crab-legs) (which are WAY more expensive) and still is in school, playing both football and baseball?

(granted, part of the issue sounds like he fought the officer {snip}

Holy cow-- fighting police officers gets you kicked out of Maryland now?

That might explain why they left the ACC-- one win over Duke, and they'd lose their entire student body in the ensuing riot.

[budwom]

Can you please cite your source so that I can evaluate your statement?

/just kidding from the other thread
//it is pretty dumb that "Ice Cream Twix" > "Crab Legs"

Good one. Let's just say that when it comes to big long pants, I "know some people."

[Henderson]

If you are Jameis Winston in Tallahassee or 7' 1" in College Park, what part of your brain flashes you the "Nobody will notice me doing this" message?

[Duvall]

If you are Jameis Winston in Tallahassee or 7' 1" in College Park, what part of your brain flashes you the "Nobody will notice me doing this" message?

If you're Jameis Winston in Tallahassee, probably the part of the brain that remembers all the times people pretended not to notice you doing this.

[throatybeard]

Your last line says it all for me. As a lifetime triangle area resident and ACC Traditionalist, I did not want to lose a charter member, however, I will not miss the cursing chants that came through the ESPN TV audio, nor the abuse like the parents (Boozer;s mom) the players (JJ/Scheyer) took at games in College Park

And this is why my most fervent hope is that the SEC eventually decides to go to 16, and picks off one of the Virginia schools, but, most importantly, Carolina. I would love nothing more than to be rid of them.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And this is why my most fervent hope is that the SEC eventually decides to go to 16, and picks off one of the Virginia schools, but, most importantly, Carolina. I would love nothing more than to be rid of them.

UNC hasn't garnered much respect as of late, that's for sure. But do most folks here actually want them out of the conference? I don't revel in their downfall the way some here do, and I recognize that difference. If I had my way, UNC would have a great program and would only lose 4 games a year - each of them to Duke.

[Henderson]

UNC hasn't garnered much respect as of late, that's for sure. But do most folks here actually want them out of the conference? I don't revel in their downfall the way some here do, and I recognize that difference. If I had my way, UNC would have a great program and would only lose 4 games a year - each of them to Duke.

And in which ACC games will you be pulling for Carolina?

The SEC won't take 'em, because it would besmirch the SEC's reputation for academic rigor.

Maryland was a tumor, but UNC is real ACC flesh, and you don't want to carve out real flesh.

Best case: Carolina remains in the ACC forever, and everyone kicks the crap out them.

[Henderson]

And this is why my most fervent hope is that the SEC eventually decides to go to 16, and picks off one of the Virginia schools [....]

Hands off Sweet Briar.

[throatybeard]

But do most folks here actually want them out of the conference?.

I doubt it. But I sure as heck do.

[Henderson]

I doubt it. But I sure as heck do.

"Alright then, it's decided. Bill, Joey, Tommy, Roger, Hack, Damien, and Alonzo are out of the club. Guess that leaves you and me, Frank. Frank....?"

[throatybeard]

"Alright then, it's decided. Bill, Joey, Tommy, Roger, Hack, Damien, and Alonzo are out of the club. Guess that leaves you and me, Frank. Frank....?"

It's no HomerS. We can have one.

You know how people have this snotty idea that we're going to team up with all the other private schools that play football and have $60K tuition for undergrads, to make a conference? I've long detested the idea, but if it meant being rid of Carolina, sign me up. Die zeit is da.

[Olympic Fan]

Idle speculation .... the ACC ain't losing anybody in the forseeable future (not since every member signed away their TV rights to the conference)

[Duvall]

Weird. Career over for a kid because he stole a Twix ice cream bar, but this guy steals crab legs (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24563606/video-james-winston-leaving-publix-with-crab-legs) (which are WAY more expensive) and still is in school, playing both football and baseball?

Yea, that seems about right.

(granted, part of the issue sounds like he fought the officer. But I wonder if the officer produced proof he was an officer)

Another misdemeanor, a different result? (http://www.newsplex.com/sports/headlines/UVa-Junior-Nolte-Charged-with-Drunk-in-Public-270031811.html)


According to a police report, Nolte told an officer he had about 8 drinks. Police say the officer tried to put Nolte into a taxi but Nolte got out of the car and ran. That's when he was arrested.

There are a lot of variables here - P.G. County police are usually a mess - but still.

[Duvall]

Terps leaving cash on their way out (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/agreement_08-08-14_lryjmo) - Maryland and the ACC agree to settlement over exit fee, with the ACC keeping the $31,361,788 already withheld from Maryland.

[Class of '94]

Terps leaving cash on their way out (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/agreement_08-08-14_lryjmo) - Maryland and the ACC agree to settlement over exit fee, with the ACC keeping the $31,361,788 already withheld from Maryland.

I think you can look at this settlement as a win-win for both the ACC and MD. MD doesn't have to pay the full 52 million but they still ended up paying a heft exit fee (and more than the previous 20+ million exit fee). And while the ACC didn't get the full 52 million, 31 million isn't bad imo; and the ACC didn't run the risk of having their exit fee ruled unenforceable by settling.

At this point, I'm glad it's over and the ACC can move on. I do think, despite Here is a Turtle beliefs and excitement over the new BIG alignment, MD will regret the move down the road. But hey, I would be fine with the scenario that both the ACC and MD flourish with their new partnerships.

[Duvall]

I think you can look at this settlement as a win-win for both the ACC and MD. MD doesn't have to pay the full 52 million but they still ended up paying a heft exit fee (and more than the previous 20+ million exit fee). And while the ACC didn't get the full 52 million, 31 million isn't bad imo; and the ACC didn't run the risk of having their exit fee ruled unenforceable by settling.

At this point, I'm glad it's over and the ACC can move on. I do think, despite Here is a Turtle beliefs and excitement over the new BIG alignment, MD will regret the move down the road. But hey, I would be fine with the scenario that both the ACC and MD flourish with their new partnerships.

Agreed - this is a good deal for everyone involved, with the possible exceptions of Mark Turgeon and Randy Edsall. Maryland has buyout cash now...

[BD80]

I think you can look at this settlement as a win-win for both the ACC and MD. MD doesn't have to pay the full 52 million but they still ended up paying a heft exit fee (and more than the previous 20+ million exit fee). And while the ACC didn't get the full 52 million, 31 million isn't bad imo; and the ACC didn't run the risk of having their exit fee ruled unenforceable by settling. ...

At first blush, it looks like Md got away with $21 mil ($20.9 mil). But the ACC grabbed the $31 mil early, that old value of money thing. Also, I seem to recall that there was some payment schedule for the entire exit fee, again - future money not as valuable.

Don't cry for Md though, I would imagine that the B1G Variable indemnified Md for a certain amount of the depature cost.

[mbwalker]

Maryland has buyout cash now...

Not really. Their athletic department operates at a deficit of around $10 to $20+ million per year and is projected to be in the red until at least 2016-2017. They don't actually receive their full share of revenue from the Big Ten until 2020. The only reason the dept continues to make ends meet is a "loan" from the university, which the school says must be repaid.

Remember, this settlement didn't send any cash Maryland's way, it just allowed the ACC to keep the revenue they were already not paying Maryland.

[Mike Corey]

Now that this is done, things may start to get interesting.

[wilson]

Now that this is done, things may start to get interesting.This is an uncharacteristically cryptic post from you, Mike, but I know you don't just run your mouth for no reason. Care to elaborate?

[YmoBeThere]

By their logic, they did just save approximately, $20.8 million dollars.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Now that this is done, things may start to get interesting.

I'd also like to know what you might be referring to. I was also thinking that with yesterday's "Big Five" conference decision, we might see another round of schools looking for landing places among the power conferences. Does this increase the odds that Notre Dame becomes a full member? Does this mean a UConn or a Butler is more eager to get in with the big boys? Is it possible that these new tweaks mean they can't afford to play with the Big Boys? Does anyone have ideas about what the fall out might be?

[-bdbd]

I have to say that I'm really, really disappointed. Living in the DC area I KNOW that I'm going to hear it repeatedly from Twerp fans how they "got away with one" on the ACC... Grrr. $31.4M is the largest sum ever paid by a school leaving a conference, so extremely hard for them to call that a "victory." But, still, it IS $20M less than what they legitimately owed. I suspect that, had the ACC not already gained the media rights of the existing ACC schools, there might have been more incentive to continue this fight (as a disencentive to future departures). I do agree that this was NOT in the long term best interests of their fan base, as they'll eventually come to realize. But for me, personally, I'll always view the as traitors (mercenaries?) of a sort. Have to be glad that we traded up in FB and MBB/WBB abilities via the 'ville. (Now, THAT'S the match-up I want to see in the ACC-Big10 challenge!)


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2014/08/08/maryland-acc-reach-settlement-in-lawsuits/

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'd also like to know what you might be referring to. I was also thinking that with yesterday's "Big Five" conference decision, we might see another round of schools looking for landing places among the power conferences. Does this increase the odds that Notre Dame becomes a full member? Does this mean a UConn or a Butler is more eager to get in with the big boys? Is it possible that these new tweaks mean they can't afford to play with the Big Boys? Does anyone have ideas about what the fall out might be?

I suppose it's a bit gauche to reply to my own post, but I found an interesting article about what the autonomy decision might end up meaning from an Alabama fan perspective. (http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2014/8/8/5982601/autonomy-and-what-i-think-it-means-for-college-football)

[throatybeard]

he only reason the dept continues to make ends meet is a "loan" from the university, which the school says must be repaid.


I'm just so glad that this is how the main taxpayer-supported (although that's waning) research university in a populous American state is spending its money.

Odds on the likelihood of this repayment occurring?

[Newton_14]

Another misdemeanor, a different result? (http://www.newsplex.com/sports/headlines/UVa-Junior-Nolte-Charged-with-Drunk-in-Public-270031811.html)



There are a lot of variables here - P.G. County police are usually a mess - but still.

Good find. Thanks for sharing. What an idiot. Cop is trying to help the guy out of a bad situation he put his own self in, and the idiot runs and gets himself arrested in the process. Loved the mug shot in the Mr. Roper shirt. Hilarious.


Me thinks Nolte (Not Nick) will be running enough suicides soon to purge his body of those 8 mixed drinks and anything else he has consumed recently.

[Class of '94]

Don't cry for Md though, I would imagine that the B1G Variable indemnified Md for a certain amount of the depature cost.

I agree with you, which still amazes me at how much in incentives the BIG gave MD to get them to jump ship from the ACC. I've talked to regional writers like David Teel out of Va; and he told me that it really bothered Delany when the ACC got ND as a partial member. That was the school Delany wanted for years and years; and one reason for go after and getting MD was to get back at the ACC for taking ND. That said, I would think that all of the incentives they gave MD (travel subsidies, a greater partial share of the BIG revenue until full membership, etc.) would have to irk other members of the BIG like Nebraska who didn't receive all of those incentives. If getting MD doesn't bring in the projected money expected and if MD doesn't improve in football, I would have to think the schools like Ohio State (whose fanbase has already complaining about the MD and Rutgers additions and feeling like they're having to hold up the conference) and Nebraska will increasingly become dissatisfied with the moves to add MD and Rutgers.

That said, it will be the BIG's problem from here on out; and I too look forward to new matchups across all sports that we will se with the ACC's new member affiliations.

[Class of '94]

Now that this is done, things may start to get interesting.

I wonder if you are alluding to the possible addition of an ACC channel. With this settlement out of the way and no potential lawsuits pending against the ACC and ESPN, the possibility of the ACC channel becomes may be even more realistic now. The ACC may have factored this into their decision to settle now for the roughly 31.4 million so that they can move ahead with the channel which potentially could be far more lucrative than going after the roughly remaining 21 million of the 52 million exit fee.

And not intending to reignite realignment talk here, but it would be incredible move by the ACC if they could somehow bring ND and Penn St into the fold as full members. I know it's not happening with Penn St since the BIG is about to get a big tv deal; and it will most likely be years from now before ND would consider joining the ACC in football. That said, it's fun to think about how the ACC could solidify itself at 16 schools with ND being a full member. UConn just doesn't excite me at this point; but that could change down the road.

[Olympic Fan]

I wonder if you are alluding to the possible addition of an ACC channel. With this settlement out of the way and no potential lawsuits pending against the ACC and ESPN, the possibility of the ACC channel becomes may be even more realistic now. The ACC may have factored this into their decision to settle now for the roughly 31.4 million so that they can move ahead with the channel which potentially could be far more lucrative than going after the roughly remaining 21 million of the 52 million exit fee.

And not intending to reignite realignment talk here, but it would be incredible move by the ACC if they could somehow bring ND and Penn St into the fold as full members. I know it's not happening with Penn St since the BIG is about to get a big tv deal; and it will most likely be years from now before ND would consider joining the ACC in football. That said, it's fun to think about how the ACC could solidify itself at 16 schools with ND being a full member. UConn just doesn't excite me at this point; but that could change down the road.

The Penn State thing is a pipe dream. I think Notre Dame will happen, but in the fairly distant future (5-10 years).

Nothing happens until the Irish come in ... when they want full membership, the ACC brings in a 16th school to balance the football divisions. There will be plenty of candidates.

But, again, NO movement until Notre Dame comes in.

And, BTW, the ACC's stance in the settlement is simple. The huge exit fee was designed to prevent schools from jumping. It became unnecessary when the remaining schools signed their TV rights over to the ACC. Had that not happened, the ACC would have fought this out to the bitter end.

[Class of '94]

The Penn State thing is a pipe dream. I think Notre Dame will happen, but in the fairly distant future (5-10 years).

Nothing happens until the Irish come in ... when they want full membership, the ACC brings in a 16th school to balance the football divisions. There will be plenty of candidates.

But, again, NO movement until Notre Dame comes in.

And, BTW, the ACC's stance in the settlement is simple. The huge exit fee was designed to prevent schools from jumping. It became unnecessary when the remaining schools signed their TV rights over to the ACC. Had that not happened, the ACC would have fought this out to the bitter end.

All good points....And the reality is that if it takes 5-10 years for ND to join the ACC in football, Penn State or any BIG school would not be a possibility because those schools would be locked into their new tv deals and the BIG has their own GoR deal in place. That said, I'm not as optimistic on their being "plenty of [quality] candidates" as you believe.

[Thurber Whyte]

I have to say that I'm really, really disappointed. Living in the DC area I KNOW that I'm going to hear it repeatedly from Twerp fans how they "got away with one" on the ACC... Grrr. $31.4M is the largest sum ever paid by a school leaving a conference, so extremely hard for them to call that a "victory." But, still, it IS $20M less than what they legitimately owed. I suspect that, had the ACC not already gained the media rights of the existing ACC schools, there might have been more incentive to continue this fight (as a disencentive to future departures). I do agree that this was NOT in the long term best interests of their fan base, as they'll eventually come to realize. But for me, personally, I'll always view the as traitors (mercenaries?) of a sort. Have to be glad that we traded up in FB and MBB/WBB abilities via the 'ville. (Now, THAT'S the match-up I want to see in the ACC-Big10 challenge!)


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2014/08/08/maryland-acc-reach-settlement-in-lawsuits/

I am pretty happy with the outcome. A lot of people associated with Maryland’s administration and the UM System Board of Regents seemed to blithely assume that the exit fee was unenforceable and that Maryland could leave and pay nothing at all or, perhaps, a couple of million to settle. The ACC had a strong, but not airtight case and $31.4M is a lot closer to $52M than $0 so now reality has set in. The risk plus the litigation cost to collect the balance make this figure reasonable.

To put this in perspective, Missouri and Texas A&M paid about $12M each to leave the Big 12 and West Virginia paid $20M to leave the Big East. In West Virginia’s case, the $20M was not just the exit fee but also for leaving the conference without having to give the required 27 month notice and the Big 12 paid $9M of it. Maryland has now paid three times what any other school has ever had to pay to change conferences.

Paying substantially more than they expected to leave the ACC also screws up whatever math Maryland’s leaders were using to calculate the benefits of joining the Big 10. As it stood, the idea that the increased revenue from the Big 10 would solve all their problems showed the same magical thinking that got them into debt in the first place. I get the impression that Maryland’s debt problems are worse than they are letting on and that the Big 10’s marginally higher revenues were not really going to put them ahead, but only get them back to normal. Now even that might be out the window. If so, the issues of mismanagement and incompetence at the University that the move was meant to paper over come back to the forefront.

If it not apparent now that Maryland did not get away with one, it will be in about 10 years’ time. Of course, by that time Loh and Anderson will be gone just like Mote and Yow are now.

As a traditionalist, I am sorry to see Maryland go. However, if I had to point to one team in the conference and vote them off the island, it would be Maryland and swapping out Maryland for Louisville plus $31.4M in cash is the deal of the century for the ACC.


Their athletic department operates at a deficit of around $10 to $20+ million per year and is projected to be in the red until at least 2016-2017. They don't actually receive their full share of revenue from the Big Ten until 2020. The only reason the dept continues to make ends meet is a "loan" from the university, which the school says must be repaid.

I'm just so glad that this is how the main taxpayer-supported (although that's waning) research university in a populous American state is spending its money.

Odds on the likelihood of this repayment occurring?

As I understand it, by law, the University’s Athletic Department’s budget is completely separate from the academic side’s. The Athletic Department has to raise its own funds and cannot be subsidized out of general funds. The loan itself seems to me highly irregular already. By law, it must be paid back. Whether that can or will happen remains to be seen.

[Mike Corey]

This is an uncharacteristically cryptic post from you, Mike, but I know you don't just run your mouth for no reason. Care to elaborate?

I believe this opens the door for more expansion, and I believe the ACC will be a prime target. The addition of Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville was prophylactic. But that maneuver alone will not block further attempts at pillaging the league, IMO.

[Duvall]

I believe this opens the door for more expansion, and I believe the ACC will be a prime target. The addition of Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville was prophylactic. But that maneuver alone will not block further attempts at pillaging the league, IMO.

Regardless of what they think in Big Ten country, the schools of the ACC individually and collectively chose last year to close the door on any further departures from the league for the next decade or so. After that, who knows?

[throatybeard]

Regardless of what they think in Big Ten country, the schools of the ACC individually and collectively chose last year to close the door on any further departures from the league for the next decade or so. After that, who knows?

That's just it. IANAL, but it's clear that the price of breaking these contracts is just a short-term price. When MU joined the SEC, they described the move as "a century-long decision." That century is apparently more important to them than their century of history with KU et alia, or the short-term financial cost. So you have to pay something between ten and fifty million to the conference you leave. Apparently that's no big whoop anymore.

I have no conviction that anyone the B1G or the SEC wants out of the ACC will stay, even considering the new grant-of-rights.

[throatybeard]

That's just it. IANAL, but it's clear that the price of breaking these contracts is just a short-term price. When MU joined the SEC, they described the move as "a century-long decision." That century is apparently more important to them than their century of history with KU et alia, or the short-term financial cost. So you have to pay something between ten and fifty million to the conference you leave. Apparently that's no big whoop anymore.

I have no conviction that anyone the B1G or the SEC wants out of the ACC will stay, even considering the new grant-of-rights.

Full disclosure: this opinion may be influenced by my hope that the huge NC tv market and the SEC's wandering eyes may leave to a divorce between Duke and UNC-Chapel Helms.

[Duvall]

That's just it. IANAL, but it's clear that the price of breaking these contracts is just a short-term price. When MU joined the SEC, they described the move as "a century-long decision." That century is apparently more important to them than their century of history with KU et alia, or the short-term financial cost. So you have to pay something between ten and fifty million to the conference you leave. Apparently that's no big whoop anymore.

I have no conviction that anyone the B1G or the SEC wants out of the ACC will stay, even considering the new grant-of-rights.

Except that with the grant of rights a team would be leaving behind ten to fifty million to leave the ACC, they'd be leaving behind closer to $250 million in rights payments over the next ten to twelve years. Plus the exit fee.

Could a school challenge the grant of rights? I guess, but that's a massive gamble the school would have to win. And if any ACC school were still considering leaving the league last year, they could have not signed the grant of rights in the first place. At this point, why not wait ten years until a move actually is possible and see what the landscape is like then?

It's hard to see why any ACC school would be considering leaving the league in the near to medium term, and I suspect that anyone that tells you otherwise has an overinflated sense of his favorite league's importance.

[OldPhiKap]

Full disclosure: this opinion may be influenced by my hope that the huge NC tv market and the SEC's wandering eyes may leave to a divorce between Duke and UNC-Chapel Helms.

I agree with you on most things, and hate the holes. But UNC leaving the ACC would be really bad for the conference (as would Duke leaving). Both are major franchises and oundational pillars of the conference.

[Mike Corey]

The schools of the ACC individually and collectively chose last year to close the door on any further departures from the league for the next decade or so. After that, who knows?

Believe me, I hope you are correct; I am not confident you are.

[throatybeard]

UNC-Chapel Helms.

I'm pretty darn funny, if I do say so myself.

[Class of '94]

That's just it. IANAL, but it's clear that the price of breaking these contracts is just a short-term price. When MU joined the SEC, they described the move as "a century-long decision." That century is apparently more important to them than their century of history with KU et alia, or the short-term financial cost. So you have to pay something between ten and fifty million to the conference you leave. Apparently that's no big whoop anymore.

I have no conviction that anyone the B1G or the SEC wants out of the ACC will stay, even considering the new grant-of-rights.

if you believe all the rumors over the past few years, The BIG wanted some combination of UNC (and possibly Duke in order to get UNC), UVA, and GaTech; and the SEC wanted UNC and Duke. However, none of thiese schools chose to go to the BIG or SEC when they could've. Combine that with the fact that it was reported that many officials in the BIG (including MD) thought they were going to get more ACC schools to go along with MD to the BIG, and they happen (which I think really put a wrench in the BIG's plans to invade the east coast). I also think many outside of the conference were surprised by the signing ACC's Grant of Rights deal, including the BIG. I believe the signing of the GofR deal showed the commitment of the ACC members to the ACC.

Now one could argue that other ACC schools were hesitant to leave because of the exit fee and wanted to wait to see what would happen to MD; and now that MD has exited without paying the full amount, the floodgates will open now with ACC schools wanting to leave if wanted by the BIG and SEC. However, with no disrespect to anyone else's thoughts and beliefs, I just don't think an ACC school will want to shell out 31.4 million dollars or more in exit fees, if the ACC can be just as lucrative as going to another league (when you factor in travel costs, etc.). I think the key to the longterm stability of the ACC will be the league's continued growth, development and success in football along with the implementation of a successful ACC channel or some other alternative and lucrative revenue generator (that's in addition to the main tv deals and is a counter to BTN and the SEC network).

[formerdukeathlete]

if you believe all the rumors over the past few years, The BIG wanted some combination of UNC (and possibly Duke in order to get UNC), UVA, and GaTech; and the SEC wanted UNC and Duke. However, none of thiese schools chose to go to the BIG or SEC when they could've. Combine that with the fact that it was reported that many officials in the BIG (including MD) thought they were going to get more ACC schools to go along with MD to the BIG, and they happen (which I think really put a wrench in the BIG's plans to invade the east coast). I also think many outside of the conference were surprised by the signing ACC's Grant of Rights deal, including the BIG. I believe the signing of the GofR deal showed the commitment of the ACC members to the ACC.

Now one could argue that other ACC schools were hesitant to leave because of the exit fee and wanted to wait to see what would happen to MD; and now that MD has exited without paying the full amount, the floodgates will open now with ACC schools wanting to leave if wanted by the BIG and SEC. However, with no disrespect to anyone else's thoughts and beliefs, I just don't think an ACC school will want to shell out 31.4 million dollars or more in exit fees, if the ACC can be just as lucrative as going to another league (when you factor in travel costs, etc.). I think the key to the longterm stability of the ACC will be the league's continued growth, development and success in football along with the implementation of a successful ACC channel or some other alternative and lucrative revenue generator (that's in addition to the main tv deals and is a counter to BTN and the SEC network).

I think all of what you wrote here is correct. Throaty's glib comments about hoping UNC moves conferences, notwithstanding, a move or even an agitation to move by any of our members would be problematical. Duke's value to the SEC is in its rivalry with UNC. As an Ivy League alternative for its out of state applicants, UVa competes for many of the same students as UNC and Duke. The administration and trustees at UVa wanted / want to remain in the ACC for a variety of reasons.

I think that while the GORs effectively stops the raiding of the ACC which Delany and the Big Ten had planned or hoped for, there may be some kind of remote risk the ACC might dissolve voluntarily if our media contracts and payouts lag by too much those of other conferences. The ACC Network has to happen and it has to be successful imo. The ACC will have to receive bump(s) under the escalation clause in our existing ESPN contract which will be a function of our improvement and success in Football and Basketball.

[sagegrouse]

I think all of what you wrote here is correct. Throaty's glib comments about hoping UNC moves conferences, notwithstanding, a move or even an agitation to move by any of our members would be problematical. Duke's value to the SEC is in its rivalry with UNC. As an Ivy League alternative for its out of state applicants, UVa competes for many of the same students as UNC and Duke. The administration and trustees at UVa wanted / want to remain in the ACC for a variety of reasons.

I think that while the GORs effectively stops the raiding of the ACC which Delany and the Big Ten had planned or hoped for, there may be some kind of remote risk the ACC might dissolve voluntarily if our media contracts and payouts lag by too much those of other conferences. The ACC Network has to happen and it has to be successful imo. The ACC will have to receive bump(s) under the escalation clause in our existing ESPN contract which will be a function of our improvement and success in Football and Basketball.

I am happy the ACC is staying together, although I don't think the threat or rupture was huge. To wit:

The Big Ten is a dinosaur. I mean, really. It decides to expand to the East Coast, and the best it can do is Maryland and Rutgers? You know they would have preferred Virginia, North Carolina and Duke.

The problem with the SEC, as my Russian friends say, is Kultur, or maybe Nikultur. The only ACC teams which are sympatico with the SEC are FSU and Clemson, and they are not especially welcome because of in-state rivals who don't want them to join. Moreover, I think they are both happy to remain in the ACC, where the path to the football playoffs is a bit easier.

[Dev11]

The Big Ten is a dinosaur.

A rich dinosaur, to be sure.

[Henderson]

A rich dinosaur, to be sure.

And I think at this point, with all the financial hemorrhaging, Maryland will be happy to be the doormat collecting checks. Winning and athletic tradition must bow before the Athletic Department budget. The question, "Did we win?" becomes subsumed into, "How much did we make getting stomped in the freezing cold?" Of course, to the players, it's just getting stomped in the freezing cold, but who cares about them? We're talking football here, and the color of football is green to lesser teams in power conferences.

[Duvall]

A rich dinosaur, to be sure.

Speaking of terrible reptiles... (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24695854/video-monstrous-cgi-testudo-will-live-in-your-nightmares)

Maryland seems to miss the domesticating force of our cozy conference.