Rasheed Sulaimon - is he the next Russell Westbrook?

[coot]

This article is short but list Sheed as one of the best ten returners to the game next season. Hopefully he will step it up in his junior year on the same level that Nolan Smith did. He is certainly talented enough to do something special. If he does, a final four run may be in the making.

http://www.answers.com/article/1188507/10-best-college-hoopsters-returning-for-2014-2015?param4=fb-us-de-sports&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=ssde-all#slide=21

coot

[OldPhiKap]

This article is short but list Sheed as one of the best ten returners to the game next season. Hopefully he will step it up in his junior year on the same level that Nolan Smith did. He is certainly talented enough to do something special. If he does, a final four run may be in the making.

http://www.answers.com/article/1188507/10-best-college-hoopsters-returning-for-2014-2015?param4=fb-us-de-sports&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=ssde-all#slide=21

coot

I will repeat the mantra I have had the last two years -- Sheed could be a lottery pick before all is said and done if he pulls it all together. May the consolidation of consistency start this season!

[kAzE]

This article is short but list Sheed as one of the best ten returners to the game next season. Hopefully he will step it up in his junior year on the same level that Nolan Smith did. He is certainly talented enough to do something special. If he does, a final four run may be in the making.

http://www.answers.com/article/1188507/10-best-college-hoopsters-returning-for-2014-2015?param4=fb-us-de-sports&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=ssde-all#slide=21

coot

Yeah . . . I wouldn't put too much stock into whoever wrote that article. I love me some Rasheed Sulaimon, but Russell Westbrook is not who I would compare him to. Westbrook is an all-world athlete, and the most athletic point guard of all time. Sheed is a nice player, and a guy who will play in the NBA for a long time, but I'd be pretty surprised if he ever made an all-star team. Also, apparently, he didn't hear Jordan Adams went pro . . .

[Duvall]

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Henderson]

Westbrook is ... the most athletic point guard of all time.

See post #4.

[mattman91]

See post #4.

Who would it be?

[g-money]

If I'm 'Sheed, I'm working like crazy on ballhandling and dribble penetration this summer. There were a lot of times last season when he ended up being forced into tough/awkward shots because he couldn't get by his man. This won't get any easier at the next level without extreme quickness... however, with savvy ballhandling skills it is possible. Just ask Steve Nash.

[Des Esseintes]

If I'm 'Sheed, I'm working like crazy on ballhandling and dribble penetration this summer. There were a lot of times last season when he ended up being forced into tough/awkward shots because he couldn't get by his man. This won't get any easier at the next level without extreme quickness... however, with savvy ballhandling skills it is possible. Just ask Steve Nash.
Ask Steve Nash *what*? Yes, Nash has a terrific handle. He is also one of the greatest passers in NBA history and arguably the very best shooter in NBA history. If you took those latter two traits away, he could not have made it at all in the Association, much less been a star. Nash is not a career path *anyone* can follow. He is utterly, utterly unique, as are most guys with weak athleticism who star at that level. Distilling his success down to his handle is like telling a lumberjack prospect that the big key to lumberjacking at the next level is to paint your ox blue.

Sulaimon has the same chance of being Westbrook as he does Nash. Which is to say he has a 0% chance. And that's ok, because there are many special careers that never touch the heights of those two.

[budwom]

If Sheed scores a WHOLE lot more points and makes a WHOLE lot more utterly selfish, boneheaded plays, he'll be exactly like Westbrook.

[JNort]

I think a better comparison is James Harden. I mean it's not an amazing comparison but I feel they almost look the same when they got the ball. Sheed is IMO a better and more willing passer where as Harden is the better overall athlete. Both can shoot, both are slashers, both need the ball in their hands, both try to get fouled on their drives.


Actually thinking further I'd say he is almost exactly like Manu Ginobili.

[nmduke2001]

I think a better comparison is James Harden. I mean it's not an amazing comparison but I feel they almost look the same when they got the ball. Sheed is IMO a better and more willing passer where as Harden is the better overall athlete. Both can shoot, both are slashers, both need the ball in their hands, both try to get fouled on their drives.


Actually thinking further I'd say he is almost exactly like Manu Ginobili.

I don't really see the Manu or Harden comparison. To me, Sheed is most like Leandro Barbosa. They're about the same size and have a similiar skill set and surprisingly close career stats.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61585/rasheed-sulaimon
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2166/leandro-barbosa

I think Sheed would be happy with a Barbosa-like career; anything more would be gravy.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think a better comparison is James Harden. I mean it's not an amazing comparison but I feel they almost look the same when they got the ball. Sheed is IMO a better and more willing passer where as Harden is the better overall athlete. Both can shoot, both are slashers, both need the ball in their hands, both try to get fouled on their drives.


Actually thinking further I'd say he is almost exactly like Manu Ginobili.

Harden is 10x the offensive player that Sulaimon is. Fortunately, Sulaimon is a muuuuuuuuch better defender. And Sulaimon isn't even an elite defender (Harden is just that bad in defending. Between Kyrie, Harden, and Stephen Curry, it's tough to say which player has the largest spread between their offensive and defensive talents).

Sulaimon's best comp, at least right now, is a poor man's Goran Dragic: good shooter, good at getting to the rim, good passer, decent defense, great teammate. Sulaimon is like Dragic, only not as good at everything that Dragic does (except defense).

[Billy Dat]

I always wonder why the comps have to be All Star, All NBA type players?

I looked at Draft Express' database of players heights and weights by position to find size comps for Rasheed to try and find a more realistic NBA comp

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=All&source=All&sort2=ASC&draft=100&pos=2&sort=2

Looking through the list of 6'4", 185 pound shooting guards is a humbling experience because there are a lot of guys who haven't made it in the NBA that it is hard to argue are worse than Rasheed.

I hope he wakes up everyday and says, ala Jay Bilas, I gotta go to work.

[Kedsy]

I don't really see the Manu or Harden comparison. To me, Sheed is most like Leandro Barbosa. They're about the same size and have a similiar skill set and surprisingly close career stats.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61585/rasheed-sulaimon
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2166/leandro-barbosa

I think Sheed would be happy with a Barbosa-like career; anything more would be gravy.

Except in his heyday, Barbosa was known as the fastest player in the NBA. Rasheed will never be that (and he isn't half the passer or scorer Dragic is, either).

Unfortunately, one of the best comps for Rasheed is Nolan Smith. Except Rasheed has a lot of improving to do before he'll be close to as good a college player as Nolan. Hopefully he'll begin that improvement process this season.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Except in his heyday, Barbosa was known as the fastest player in the NBA. Rasheed will never be that (and he isn't half the passer or scorer Dragic is, either).

Unfortunately, one of the best comps for Rasheed is Nolan Smith. Except Rasheed has a lot of improving to do before he'll be close to as good a college player as Nolan. Hopefully he'll begin that improvement process this season.

I agree that, right now, Smith is a decent comp. But I think were are 3 main differences that don't make the comp ideal:

1) Sulaimon is taller with a bigger wingspan. He's arguably an inch taller with at least 2-4 inches in wingspan. That matters, because it makes Sulaimon more capable of playing the combo (versus Nolan who could only play the 1)
2) Smith was a lock-down defender. Sulaimon is a serviceable defender. I hope Sulaimon becomes that type of defender
3) Sulaimon is a better 3pt shooter and driver. Sulaimon has slightly better stats, but it's his consistency and form that I feel are sooo much better than Smith. Furthermore, Sulaimon already drives with his head up and gets to the hoop with ease. He isn't great at finishing, yet, but I think he'll get there.

As a senior, Smith has the full offensive arsenal: good 3pt shooter, great mid-range, strong to the hoop. But when he got to the NBA, all those assets just weren't good enough. Sulaimon has a better 3pt shot and should continue to become a better driver. I don't really like his mid-range, and I'm sure he'll be asked to drop it once we gets to the NBA, but if Sulaimon can become a highly serviceable 3pt shooter with good driving ability, he can easily become Goran Dragic 2.0

[BD80]

... Between Kyrie, Harden, and Stephen Curry, it's tough to say which player has the largest spread between their offensive and defensive talents). ...

Jabari Parker

[flyingdutchdevil]

Jabari Parker

I think Jabari needs to be compared with Al Jefferson, Gordon Hayward, and Carmelo Anthony (come on! put the guards together and the forwards together! ;))

Also, saying Jabari's D is worse than Harden's is indeed saying something. Jabari is awful. Harden may be on another level. If JJ Redick continuously blows by you on drives, you are not a serviceable defender (JJ is a great shooter, a crafty playmaker, and a workhorse. Driving is not in his NBA arsenal and never has been).

[roywhite]

Except in his heyday, Barbosa was known as the fastest player in the NBA. Rasheed will never be that (and he isn't half the passer or scorer Dragic is, either).

Unfortunately, one of the best comps for Rasheed is Nolan Smith. Except Rasheed has a lot of improving to do before he'll be close to as good a college player as Nolan. Hopefully he'll begin that improvement process this season.

Yeah, I think Nolan is a decent comparison.

Remember, Nolan was much better as a junior and senior; his scoring averages were as follows:
FR 5.9
SO 8.4
JR 17.4
SR 20.6

Rasheed, so far:
FR 11.6
SO 9.9

Sheed is a key player for the 2014-15 season, both for his play and to help bring along the young guys.

[g-money]

Ask Steve Nash *what*? Yes, Nash has a terrific handle. He is also one of the greatest passers in NBA history and arguably the very best shooter in NBA history. If you took those latter two traits away, he could not have made it at all in the Association, much less been a star. Nash is not a career path *anyone* can follow. He is utterly, utterly unique, as are most guys with weak athleticism who star at that level. Distilling his success down to his handle is like telling a lumberjack prospect that the big key to lumberjacking at the next level is to paint your ox blue.

Sulaimon has the same chance of being Westbrook as he does Nash. Which is to say he has a 0% chance. And that's ok, because there are many special careers that never touch the heights of those two.

Hmmmm, wasn't really trying to compare the too. Just making the point that it's possible to get by someone with savvy ballhandling, even in the absence of great quickness.

[rocketeli]

No (unfortunately)

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, I think Nolan is a decent comparison.

Remember, Nolan was much better as a junior and senior; his scoring averages were as follows:
FR 5.9
SO 8.4
JR 17.4
SR 20.6

Rasheed, so far:
FR 11.6
SO 9.9

Sheed is a key player for the 2014-15 season, both for his play and to help bring along the young guys.


I hope Rasheed is the next Nolan Smith at Duke -- 2nd team All-American and first-team All-ACC.

[kAzE]

I like the Nolan Smith comps for college, but Rasheed is a better NBA prospect because of his superior size. He still needs to improve quite a bit to be considered a lottery pick, though. I believe he will ultimately be a late first rounder who will carve out a role as a good defensive player who can hit open shots, and sometimes make an aggressive drive to the basket. I wasn't too fond of any of the NBA comparisons thus far. Westbrook and Nash are like . . . . in another galaxy. Barbosa was way faster. Harden and Ginobili in his prime are/were top 10 offensive players in the league. Dragic is a true point guard who is a one-man wrecking crew, and unstoppable in the open court. Unfortunately, I don't see Sulaimon ever being that good offensively. I think the best comp I can come up with right now is Raja Bell or Cuttino Mobley. Both were career role players who were good defenders, and decent shooters. Raja is probably Sulaimon's ceiling as a defender, and Mobley is his ceiling as an offensive player. At his prime, Raja was one of the most hated players in the league for his in-your-face defensive prowess. Mobley is the closest thing in terms of size, defensive ability and shooting, but his work ethic really propelled him to a stellar career. I think if Rasheed does everything right, he could enjoy the same type of career: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cuttino-Mobley-3629/

[Des Esseintes]

As a senior, Smith has the full offensive arsenal: good 3pt shooter, great mid-range, strong to the hoop. But when he got to the NBA, all those assets just weren't good enough. Sulaimon has a better 3pt shot and should continue to become a better driver. I don't really like his mid-range, and I'm sure he'll be asked to drop it once we gets to the NBA, but if Sulaimon can become a highly serviceable 3pt shooter with good driving ability, he can easily become Goran Dragic 2.0

Dragic should have been a Western Conference All-Star this season. He was massively good on the court. You say "highly serviceable" three point shooting and driving ability, but that doesn't begin to describe what the guy brought. That three point shooting was often off the dribble or coming off of a screen. Way more difficult than the catch-and-shoot threes Sulaimon enjoyed at Duke as the beneficiary of not being Jabari Parker or Rodney Hood. Dragic was a relentless and, frankly, amazing driver into the paint. He was markedly better there than many guys who make a living attacking the paint, combining tremendous awareness of the self in space and excellent vision once among the trees. He is fantastic on the pick-and-roll, something Sulaimon has shown no sign of executing with consistent success. Simply put, Dragic is a passer on a level Rasheed has little chance of ever approaching. He's also a very good next level defender. As a white guy, people overlook his athleticism, but his steal rate in the NBA is slightly better than Sulaimon's in college, suggesting Dragic's speed and instincts are probably much better than Sulaimon's. (Steal rate does not measure quality of defense, obviously, but it often gives a window into the player's capacity to get around the court and make stuff happen. Scouts use it to predict how an athlete can translate to the next level.)

Here are some even more relevant stats. For Dragic first. True shooting 60.4%. 56.1 eFG% Assist rate 28%. Now Sulaimon in these respective categories: 55.2%, 49.0%, 17%. Which is to say that Dragic is far more effective at the NBA level--as arguably his team's #1 option--than Rasheed was at the college level as his team's third option. Billy Dat is right. We need to quite the star comps for all but Duke's most elite players. If Sulaimon becomes Dragic 2.0, it not be easy. It will be the result of a wholesale reinvention of himself as a player, a reinvention that would include discovering skills he has not yet evidenced. Sulaimon can make the NBA. But the lazy comparisons do no one any good.

[SupaDave]

I'm not focusing on a Smith comparison. I'd rather see him do the JJ jump from sophomore to junior year where he is in tip top shape and he has to have a dedicated defender following him the whole game. IF this happens, then quite frankly Coach K can go back to the days of Shelden and JJ and take lots of pressure off young Tyus. There's lots of expounding that can go from there but if K makes Sheed the engine that pushes this train - and I believe he will - he's gonna have to be in the best shape of his life.

[jipops]

Since this is mostly about comparisons, I definitely see more George Hill and Nolan Smith than Westbrook or Dragic.

Sheed had to adjust to playing more off the ball last season with Jabari and Rodney. He'll likely get more of that with senior Quinn and with Tyus but since those guys are more natural facilitators he may be in more comfortable position to score. Defensively, it still feels like there is some unrealized potential. Having a big guy behind him should help.

[luvdahops]

Since this is mostly about comparisons, I definitely see more George Hill and Nolan Smith than Westbrook or Dragic.

Sheed had to adjust to playing more off the ball last season with Jabari and Rodney. He'll likely get more of that with senior Quinn and with Tyus but since those guys are more natural facilitators he may be in more comfortable position to score. Defensively, it still feels like there is some unrealized potential. Having a big guy behind him should help.

Kirk Hinrich is another comp for Rasheed that has been thrown around, and a decent one in my view. Good but not great athlete with a solid handle, defensive tenacity, high basketball IQ and just enough scoring ability to play both guard spots credibly at the NBA level. A solid 3rd guard for a contender, potential starter on a weaker team.

From the DraftExpress Measurements Database (which includes the NBA Draft Combine and USA Basketball):

Rasheed (from 2013 USABB) - 6'3" in socks, 6'4" in shoes, 194 pounds, 6'7" wingspan, 8'5.5" standing reach
Nolan (from 2012 Draft) - 6'1.5", 6'3.5", 188, 6'5.5", 8'3"
Hinrich (from 2003 Draft) - 6'2.75", 6'3.75", 186, 6'6", 8'2.5"
Hill (from 2008 Draft) - 6'1.25", 6"2.5", 181, 6'9", 8"1.5"

Hill has broader shoulders than any of the others, which may account for the seeming disparity in wingspan vs. reach

[Duke4life92]

I hope sheed becomes something we've never seen before.Be the beast i mean best you can be sheed and be all you can be.I'll take that.Be you.:D

[greybeard]

I will repeat the mantra I have had the last two years -- Sheed could be a lottery pick before all is said and done if he pulls it all together. May the consolidation of consistency start this season!

Yes Sir. Don't laugh, but I wrote here before he arrived that I saw a lot of MJ in this guy. Not the superstardom, but how he moved, his long legs and arms, anticipation, playing with ease that belied steel determination, diversity of play, and willingness to take the important shot. I'm not big on comparisons; only saying that he reminds me of, if he works hard might have the understated-type impact of, probably not to the same dimensions of, Sidney Moncrief, 6'3" guard from the '80s. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADAo3W4Hos.

I don't see much of Westbrook in his game and much of his game in Westbrook's. Sheed understands and embraces "team" in ever more sophisticated ways, thanks to K. In the end, assuming what OldPhiKap says must be done, "pulls it all together," wouldn't care to argue with might well be "a lottery pick before all is said and done." Certainly, impactful on the next level.

[luvdahops]

Yes Sir. Don't laugh, but I wrote here before he arrived that I saw a lot of MJ in this guy. Not the superstardom, but how he moved, his long legs and arms, anticipation, playing with ease that belied steel determination, diversity of play, and willingness to take the important shot. I'm not big on comparisons; only saying that he reminds me of, if he works hard might have the understated-type impact of, probably not to the same dimensions of, Sidney Moncrief, 6'3" guard from the '80s. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADAo3W4Hos.

I don't see much of Westbrook in his game and much of his game in Westbrook's. Sheed understands and embraces "team" in ever more sophisticated ways, thanks to K. In the end, assuming what OldPhiKap says must be done, "pulls it all together," wouldn't care to argue with might well be "a lottery pick before all is said and done." Certainly, impactful on the next level.

Sidney Moncrief is one of my all-time favorite basketball players. As much as I would LOVE to comp Sheed to him, I think that is a considerable stretch despite some meaningful similarities. Moncrief was one of the best defenders of his era (2-time NBA DPOY), and maybe of all-time, as well as an exceptional leaper who held his own on the boards and could check NBA SFs more than capably (Larry Bird cites him as one the toughest defenders he ever played against). He was also a 5-time All-Star and 5-time All-NBA player (4x second team, 1x first).

I don't see Sheed's ceiling as being quite that high.

4240

[JNort]

I was just trying to compare to other shooting guards. I still can't get off the Manu comparison. They are of similar height and build, have the same play style, both are serviceable defenders, good shooters, decent ball handlers and good passers. I could see Sheed being a Manu type player in the NBA, just maybe not as potent an offensive weapon.

[Wander]

I think Rasheed is sort of halfway between Nolan Smith and Gerald Henderson. Similarities to Nolan as already noted, but taller and plays more off the ball, like G.

[Troublemaker]

Role player combo-guard like a Reggie Jackson, Jordan Crawford, or Jarrett Jack, all of whom were drafted late first-round. That's what I would (reasonably) hope for Sheed.

He needs to have that big breakout junior season, though. I do think it'll happen.

[NSDukeFan]

I was just trying to compare to other shooting guards. I still can't get off the Manu comparison. They are of similar height and build, have the same play style, both are serviceable defenders, good shooters, decent ball handlers and good passers. I could see Sheed being a Manu type player in the NBA, just maybe not as potent an offensive weapon.

Isn't Ginobili 3 inches, or about a position, taller, with great vision? I hope Sulaimon has a breakout year and a long and successful NBA career, but I doubt Rasheed will popularize an offensive move (euro step) like Manu.
I think Heinrich may be the best comparison that Rasheed could strive for. I would love for Rasheed to have a couple years like Heinrich did in college.

[OldPhiKap]

I like to picture Sheed as a mischievous badger, or maybe a figure skater doing interpretive dances of my life.

[Des Esseintes]

Let's put it this way: as long as Rasheed not on track to have his jersey retired at Duke, comparisons to guys headed to the Hall of Fame as NBA players are likely to be inaccurate. So no, he is not like Steve Nash or Manu or Westbrook.

[Duvall]

Let's put it this way: as long as Rasheed not on track to have his jersey retired at Duke, comparisons to guys headed to the Hall of Fame as NBA players are likely to be inaccurate. So no, he is not like Steve Nash or Manu or Westbrook.

You don't think Sulaimon reminds you of a shorter George Mikan?

[JNort]

Isn't Ginobili 3 inches, or about a position, taller, with great vision? I hope Sulaimon has a breakout year and a long and successful NBA career, but I doubt Rasheed will popularize an offensive move (euro step) like Manu.
I think Heinrich may be the best comparison that Rasheed could strive for. I would love for Rasheed to have a couple years like Heinrich did in college.

Nope Manu isn't even a full inch taller. I just see zero comparison Heinrich. They are almost nothing alike

[JNort]

Let's put it this way: as long as Rasheed not on track to have his jersey retired at Duke, comparisons to guys headed to the Hall of Fame as NBA players are likely to be inaccurate. So no, he is not like Steve Nash or Manu or Westbrook.

I disagree, you can play like somebody or have very similar traits and abilities but never pan out or have the same success

[kAzE]

Nope Manu isn't even a full inch taller. I just see zero comparison Heinrich. They are almost nothing alike

Yes he is . . . Manu is all of 6 foot 6. (1.98m), and Rasheed is 6 foot 4 (1.93m) he's almost 2 inches (1.96 inches) taller than Rasheed. And as I mentioned before, Manu Ginobili was a top 10 offensive player in his prime in the NBA, and is a lock to join the hall of fame. Even the most wildly optimistic projection for Rasheed will never touch Manu's career.

Manu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manu_Gin%C3%B3bili
Rasheed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasheed_Sulaimon

[Henderson]

And as I mentioned before, Manu Ginobili was a top 10 offensive player in his prime in the NBA, and is a lock to join the hall of fame. Even the most wildly optimistic projection for Rasheed will never touch Manu's career.


I don't know how you can say that. When Ginobili was Rasheed's age, he played for Estudiantes Bahia Blanco in Argentina and was so unimpressive that he went at the bottom of the NBA draft (57th) when he was 21 and had already been a Europro for 4 years. Rasheed will be that age at the end of next season. I'd say Rasheed is at least as well-regarded for his age as Ginobili was at the same stage in his career. We know how Ginobili turned out. To say that Rasheed "will never touch" that level is silly speculation. Who projected Ginobili's success when he was Rasheed's age? Clearly not NBA scouts.

To make such a categorical statement that Rasheed "will never touch Manu's career" is at least a decade premature and, therefore, irresponsible in my opinion.

[coot]

Nolan Smith is my favorite comparison to Rasheed, as stated. But I do agree that Sheed has got to step up big to match Nolan's JR year.

If he does have a Nolan-like JR year a final four run is highly probable.

[jipops]

I think Sheed is more like 2 cups Vernon Maxwell, 3 tablespoons Derrick McKey, and a dash of Shawn Kemp.

Oh, and then throw in some Chris Dudley for the heck of it.

[kAzE]

I don't know how you can say that. When Ginobili was Rasheed's age, he played for Estudiantes Bahia Blanco in Argentina and was so unimpressive that he went at the bottom of the NBA draft (57th) when he was 21 and had already been a Europro for 4 years. Rasheed will be that age at the end of next season. I'd say Rasheed is at least as well-regarded for his age as Ginobili was at the same stage in his career. We know how Ginobili turned out. To say that Rasheed "will never touch" that level is silly speculation. Who projected Ginobili's success when he was Rasheed's age? Clearly not NBA scouts.

To make such a categorical statement that Rasheed "will never touch Manu's career" is at least a decade premature and, therefore, irresponsible in my opinion.

Well, okay, you're right, it's much too early to close the book on Rasheed's career. I think when I typed that, it came out wrong. Rasheed has a lot of potential. A lot of things could happen. He could really improve over his final 2 years at Duke.

All I'm saying is, there's not a whole lot of precedent for undersized guards who can't play the point achieving hall of fame-level status in the NBA. Also, Here's Manu's list of accomplishments:

4× NBA champion (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
2× NBA All-Star (2005, 2011)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2008)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2003)
FIBA Americas Championship MVP (2001)
Euroleague champion (2001)
Euroleague Finals MVP (2001)
All-Euroleague First Team (2002)
Italian Cup MVP (2002)
2× Italian League MVP (2001–2002)
2× Olimpia de Oro (2003–2004)
Diamond Konex Award (2010)
50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors (2008)

You're totally underrating Manu. Just because he was drafted 57th doesn't mean he was "unimpressive." He was only the best player in Europe 2 years straight. Just because every team other than the Spurs had bad international scouting doesn't mean he wasn't damn good.

Manu is one of the most decorated basketball players ever, and a top 5 international player ever. I definitely take back my unconditional statement about Rasheed. That was absolutely not the right thing to say, but it's a long, long road to achieve the level of success that Manu has enjoyed. If Rasheed achieves half of what Manu has achieved in his career, I'd call it a pretty awesome career. Heck, I hope he DOES become the next Manu. We sure could use a player like that the next 2 seasons.

[niveklaen]

I think that Sheed's best comp is Demarcus Nelson - their games seem very similar to me as do their body types - I don't think that sheed is as athletic as demarcus was, but he also hasn't had the injury problems that plagued demarcus - I like sheed (and demarcus), but I think he is much more likely to have a cup of coffee career than a HOF career

[Kedsy]

All I'm saying is, there's not a whole lot of precedent for undersized guards who can't play the point achieving hall of fame-level status in the NBA.

Frankly, forget about HOF status, there's not a lot of precedent for undersized guards having decent NBA careers. Ginobili is a 6'6 shooting guard. We shouldn't even be talking about a comp with a 6'3/6'4 shooting guard. Period.

NBA SGs who are 6'3/6'4 are either combo guards or amazing shooters. Right now, Rasheed is neither. With his form, it's unlikely he'll develop into an elite shooter, though of course not impossible (see, e.g., Reggie Miller, though Reggie measured out at 6'7, so he's not a legit comp for Rasheed, either). And, though Rasheed possibly has the potential to be a combo guard in the NBA, most of those guys (e.g., Kemba Walker, Jason Terry, Jerryd Bayless, Kirk Hinrich, Reggie Jackson, Jarrett Jack) are/were much better distributors than Rasheed has shown so far.

Rasheed has two years to improve to an NBA level SG. It's possible he'll make that jump this year, but more likely he won't. But even if he does, comparisons to guys like Ginobili or Westbrook are just plain silly.

[kAzE]

Frankly, forget about HOF status, there's not a lot of precedent for undersized guards having decent NBA careers. Ginobili is a 6'6 shooting guard. We shouldn't even be talking about a comp with a 6'3/6'4 shooting guard. Period.

NBA SGs who are 6'3/6'4 are either combo guards or amazing shooters. Right now, Rasheed is neither. With his form, it's unlikely he'll develop into an elite shooter, though of course not impossible (see, e.g., Reggie Miller, though Reggie measured out at 6'7, so he's not a legit comp for Rasheed, either). And, though Rasheed possibly has the potential to be a combo guard in the NBA, most of those guys (e.g., Kemba Walker, Jason Terry, Jerryd Bayless, Kirk Hinrich, Reggie Jackson, Jarrett Jack) are/were much better distributors than Rasheed has shown so far.

Rasheed has two years to improve to an NBA level SG. It's possible he'll make that jump this year, but more likely he won't. But even if he does, comparisons to guys like Ginobili or Westbrook are just plain silly.

Well, there's always Allen Iverson, the dream of every undersized shooting guard in the world. But yeah, my original point was that Manu isn't a good comparison at all. I still think Cuttino Mobley is Rasheed's best case scenario, and that's no knock on Rasheed at all, Mobley was a hell of a shooting guard standing at just 6'4".

I'm actually astounded this thread has gone 3 pages. The original source article was a piece of crap.

[Kedsy]

Well, there's always Allen Iverson, the dream of every undersized shooting guard in the world.

Yeah, but look at Iverson's assist numbers -- for a guy who never passed, he still put up assist numbers that Rasheed will never sniff. Also, he had an astonishing quickness that Rasheed just doesn't have.

Ultimately, I doubt anyone can find a decent comp between Rasheed and an all-star SG, much less a HOF SG. He just isn't there yet, and more likely than not will never get there. That's not a knock on Rasheed, it's just life.

Oh, and it's neither here nor there, but Cuttino Mobley's son attended the same middle school as my son.

[_Gary]

Frankly, forget about HOF status, there's not a lot of precedent for undersized guards having decent NBA careers. Ginobili is a 6'6 shooting guard. We shouldn't even be talking about a comp with a 6'3/6'4 shooting guard. Period.

NBA SGs who are 6'3/6'4 are either combo guards or amazing shooters. Right now, Rasheed is neither. With his form, it's unlikely he'll develop into an elite shooter, though of course not impossible (see, e.g., Reggie Miller, though Reggie measured out at 6'7, so he's not a legit comp for Rasheed, either). And, though Rasheed possibly has the potential to be a combo guard in the NBA, most of those guys (e.g., Kemba Walker, Jason Terry, Jerryd Bayless, Kirk Hinrich, Reggie Jackson, Jarrett Jack) are/were much better distributors than Rasheed has shown so far.

Rasheed has two years to improve to an NBA level SG. It's possible he'll make that jump this year, but more likely he won't. But even if he does, comparisons to guys like Ginobili or Westbrook are just plain silly.

Finally, a voice of sanity. :)

In all seriousness, as much as I love Sheed he's simply no where close to being a Westbrook. Unfortunately, everything Kedsy said is correct. At his height, Sheed would have to be lightning quick, a fantastic outside shooter, and a great distributor. He's none of those things right now, and I can't really see his skill set rising to the level where he'd play serious minutes in the Association. If he works really, really hard he might be able to be a utility bench guy. But I just don't see his ceiling being any higher than that. And boy do I hope I'm wrong, because I want all of our guys to play at the next level - and do it very well.

[Freethrw33]

For Duke comparisons, I view Sheed as a cross between DMarc (similar builds, with Sheed an inch or two taller but not nearly as strong), and Austin Rivers (both have the ability to get by the first defender almost every time, but too often have difficulties in finishing or kicking out to the right person; Sheed is the stronger defender).

Sheed has better shooting form than both DMarc or Rivers (though sometimes his shot is too flat), so has the potential to become a much better shooter than those two.

Expecting big things from him this year!

[CDu]

Frankly, forget about HOF status, there's not a lot of precedent for undersized guards having decent NBA careers. Ginobili is a 6'6 shooting guard. We shouldn't even be talking about a comp with a 6'3/6'4 shooting guard. Period.

NBA SGs who are 6'3/6'4 are either combo guards or amazing shooters. Right now, Rasheed is neither. With his form, it's unlikely he'll develop into an elite shooter, though of course not impossible (see, e.g., Reggie Miller, though Reggie measured out at 6'7, so he's not a legit comp for Rasheed, either). And, though Rasheed possibly has the potential to be a combo guard in the NBA, most of those guys (e.g., Kemba Walker, Jason Terry, Jerryd Bayless, Kirk Hinrich, Reggie Jackson, Jarrett Jack) are/were much better distributors than Rasheed has shown so far.

Rasheed has two years to improve to an NBA level SG. It's possible he'll make that jump this year, but more likely he won't. But even if he does, comparisons to guys like Ginobili or Westbrook are just plain silly.

Totally agree. However, I'd go a different route with the last paragraph. I'd say that it is all but a given that he won't make it as a SG. I'd say Sulaimon's best hope for NBA success is to REALLY improve as a ballhandler/distributor and become a combo guard. I don't think it's likely that he'll do that, but I think it is more likely he'll be a combo guard than it is that he'll be a successful SG in the NBA.

That being said, he can absolutely become a star SG at Duke. At 6'3"-6'4" and with long arms, he's a very good size for the college SG position. And he's a capable ballhandler, so he can get his own shot. Hopefully this year he spends more time at SG and less time at SF. And hopefully he'll finally find that consistency and rebound from a disappointing sophomore year.

I think I was one of the first to push the Nolan Smith comparisons back when Sulaimon was playing high school all-star games. I still hold out hope that he develops the way Smith did. But that's the type of player that I see Sulaimon most like in terms of Duke players. I just hope he gets there.

[JNort]

Yes he is . . . Manu is all of 6 foot 6. (1.98m), and Rasheed is 6 foot 4 (1.93m) he's almost 2 inches (1.96 inches) taller than Rasheed. And as I mentioned before, Manu Ginobili was a top 10 offensive player in his prime in the NBA, and is a lock to join the hall of fame. Even the most wildly optimistic projection for Rasheed will never touch Manu's career.

Manu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manu_Gin%C3%B3bili
Rasheed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasheed_Sulaimon

Well what ever site I was on said Manu was 6'5" to Sheeds 6'4". I did some further digging and found that Sheed is listed at 6ft 4.5 inches in shoes so he's only an inch and a half shorter plus it says closer to 6'5" and that was over a year ago. However I till think your missing the point. I am in no way saying his production or career up to this point is like Manu. That's not even the poit of this post. It's who does he remind you of an frankly the only one that come close for me is Manu. Their style is almost exact, Sheed is just not on Manu's lvl