Mudiay possibly spending next season overseas.

[crote]

There are reports (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11214190/smu-mustangs-prospect-emmanuel-mudiay-headed-overseas) that Emmanuel Mudiay will forego college and spend next season playing overseas. Mudiay, you will recall, is according to some the top guard in the high school class of 2014 (Scout has him the #2 overall player behind only Jahlil, ESPN has him at #5) who in a stunner committed to Larry Brown and SMU over Cal and Kentucky.

He appears to be catching some NCAA heat for issues related to amateurism (his academics are fine and he's already enrolled at SMU).

[tommy]

Mudiay, widely agreed upon as the co-best PG in the Class of 2014, along w Duke's Tyus Jones, will not be enrolling at hometown SMU to play for Larry Brown, and instead will head overseas. Heavy rumors he had academic qualification issues. Devastating for SMU of course and will be interesting to see how it turns out for the young man.

[crote]

ESPN is reporting that it's an amateurism issue, not academics:


However, the source said that the athletic 6-foot-5 point guard, who was considered a one-and-done possibility and was ranked No. 5 in the nation by ESPN, is concerned about amateurism issues and not academics or financial stability. The school has accepted Mudiay academically.

"The NCAA is on him," the source said. "And he's worried."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11214190/smu-mustangs-prospect-emmanuel-mudiay-headed-overseas

[gocanes0506]

It wont be devastating for SMU as they still have their starting PG from last year on the team. Their PG is pretty under rated (his height has somethings to do with it). Dont get me wrong they will be less talented for sure.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

"The NCAA is on him," the source said. "And he's worried."[/url]

Well, he clearly just chose the wrong school. Had he gone to UNC, the NCAA would be falling all over themselves to stay away.

[Henderson]

Well, he clearly just chose the wrong school. Had he gone to UNC, the NCAA would be falling all over themselves to stay away.

If some non-athletes also have been getting paid for stuff they did in HS, it's not an athletics issue.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

If some non-athletes also have been getting paid for stuff they did in HS, it's not an athletics issue.

Perhaps Roy could recruit athletes that are already ineligible - that way they can't lose eligibility.

[arnie]

Perhaps Roy could recruit athletes that are already ineligible - that way they can't lose eligibility.

For all we know, Roy is recruiting him now. While the NCAA is on campus, Roy could swing by and ask for a waiver regarding the transfer year. After all, Chapel Hill is closer than Dallas to his uncle.

[Newton_14]

There are reports (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11214190/smu-mustangs-prospect-emmanuel-mudiay-headed-overseas) that Emmanuel Mudiay will forego college and spend next season playing overseas. Mudiay, you will recall, is according to some the top guard in the high school class of 2014 (Scout has him the #2 overall player behind only Jahlil, ESPN has him at #5) who in a stunner committed to Larry Brown and SMU over Cal and Kentucky.

He appears to be catching some NCAA heat for issues related to amateurism (his academics are fine and he's already enrolled at SMU).


Mudiay, widely agreed upon as the co-best PG in the Class of 2014, along w Duke's Tyus Jones, will not be enrolling at hometown SMU to play for Larry Brown, and instead will head overseas. Heavy rumors he had academic qualification issues. Devastating for SMU of course and will be interesting to see how it turns out for the young man.


ESPN is reporting that it's an amateurism issue, not academics:



http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11214190/smu-mustangs-prospect-emmanuel-mudiay-headed-overseas

Thanks to Crote for settling that disagreement above with a link. I would not want the young man's academics called into question when they were fine. Sounds like just an amateur issue.


If some non-athletes also have been getting paid for stuff they did in HS, it's not an athletics issue.
Dude, this is like the funniest post I have read all year! I tried to give you trident points, but system said to share the love. That however, was a really fantastic comeback! Very nicely done sir!

Somebody give Hendo some positive comment points. He earned them with that line.

[tommy]

Thanks to Crote for settling that disagreement above with a link. I would not want the young man's academics called into question when they were fine.

Maybe they were fine and it was some other kind of amateurism issue. But the fact that SMU accepted him is not really evidence that his academics were clean. Eric Bledsoe got accepted at Kentucky, remember, and his "academics" in high school were a total fraud. Mudiay spent the last couple years at Prime Prep in Dallas, which has the reputation as a real diploma mill. Doesn't mean Mudiay's academics were substandard, but it's a shady place.

[brevity]

Mudiay, you will recall, is according to some the top guard in the high school class of 2014 (Scout has him the #2 overall player behind only Jahlil, ESPN has him at #5) who in a stunner committed to Larry Brown and SMU over Cal and Kentucky.

Wow. John Calipari has become so slick that he can avoid NCAA trouble by not getting a recruit.

[johnb]

Given the amount of money and deception/lying that is part of college basketball and football, it's surprising to me that situations like this aren't more common. And I get lulled to sleep.

But then the details emerge: Deion Sanders [!] starts a school for athletes! Under Armour sponsors the teams! Under Armour helping Mudiay transition into pro basketball! The NCAA hasn't completed its eligibility assessment on a top 5 recruit as of July!
Roy Williams!

Ugh...

[tommy]

The State of Texas is moving to revoke Prime Prep's charter, which would force its closure. The article discusses a number of problems that exist, though it must be said none of them appear directly tied to academics, which as this and other articles note, has been a significant concern in the recent past. Place sounds like a real mess.

Heres the link: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/15/report-prime-prep-co-founded-by-deion-sanders-faces-closure/related/

[JasonEvans]

For folks still following this situation, Gary Parish at CBS Sportsline has a nice article on Prime Prep (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24627290/those-two-years-spent-at-prime-prep-put-emmanuel-mudiay-in-a-tough-spot) and why Mudiay had almost no chance of playing college ball this season.


Do you want to guess how many times the NCAA has reviewed coursework completed at Prime Prep and allowed it to count toward a prospective student-athlete's transcript?

Zero, according to a source.

Z.E.R.O.

So, to get through the Eligibility Center and play Division I basketball this season at SMU, the bottom line is that Emmanuel Mudiay would've needed the NCAA to do something it's literally never done, i.e., count courses from Prime Prep.

-Jason "seems like Larry Brown should have known about this -- perhaps he did and he took Mudiay anyway because he knew it would make a splash whether the kid was eligible or not" Evans

[Skitzle]

For folks still following this situation, Gary Parish at CBS Sportsline has a nice article on Prime Prep (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24627290/those-two-years-spent-at-prime-prep-put-emmanuel-mudiay-in-a-tough-spot) and why Mudiay had almost no chance of playing college ball this season.



-Jason "seems like Larry Brown should have known about this -- perhaps he did and he took Mudiay anyway because he knew it would make a splash whether the kid was eligible or not" Evans


I know this is really a Blemish for Larry Brown, but I love the fact that Calipari and Kentucky were recruiting Mudaiy hard and we're pissed when they missed on him. Again, the whole no/low/Cheating standards and links to Kentucky.

[tommy]

For folks still following this situation, Gary Parish at CBS Sportsline has a nice article on Prime Prep (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24627290/those-two-years-spent-at-prime-prep-put-emmanuel-mudiay-in-a-tough-spot) and why Mudiay had almost no chance of playing college ball this season.

Which is why I made the point earlier in this thread that the fact that SMU accepted Mudiay tells us nothing about his academics in high school, in particular at a diploma mill like Prime Prep. As Parish noted, SMU could accept an 11 year-old, but that doesn't mean he's completed the necessary (and legitimate) high school coursework to be eligible to play college basketball.

Prime has a couple of other high-major prospects, and also had a top-10 or top-15 guy in Elijah Thomas, who spent I think just one year there before transferring out again. I wouldn't be surprised if the academic situation at Prime was a reason why Duke backed off its recruitment last year of the talented PF. In any event, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the remaining couple of guys from Prime, as well as Thomas -- will they receive any credits toward college eligibility with the clearinghouse for the year(s) they spent at Prime? Doesn't sound like a good bet.

[Henderson]

Given the amount of money and deception/lying that is part of college basketball and football, it's surprising to me that situations like this aren't more common. And I get lulled to sleep.

But then the details emerge: Deion Sanders [!] starts a school for athletes! Under Armour sponsors the teams! Under Armour helping Mudiay transition into pro basketball! The NCAA hasn't completed its eligibility assessment on a top 5 recruit as of July!
Roy Williams!

Ugh...

This isn't the first instance of this. Last fall, the NCAA barred college recruiters from Findlay Prep (Las Vegas -- Kelly Oubre et al.) and Huntington Prep (W.V. -- Wiggins et al.) because the two schools weren't legit academic schools (my words, not the NCAA's). Linky. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--ncaa-bars-college-recruiters-from-three-prep-schools-044127793.html)

Findlay Prep is a lot like Prime Prep. It was started recently (2006) by a rich former sports figure (Findlay played at UNLV and endowed the school with his car dealership money). In an odd coincidence, Ed O'Bannon is a long-time sales manager at one of Findlay's auto dealerships very near Findlay prep. Or maybe it's not such a coincidence. Old man Findlay is a basketball fan.

[awhom111]

Reports are breaking this morning that he will play in China for Guangdong.

One of the things people in this country have to understand is that Brandon Jennings was considered a complete flop from a European perspective. The elite teams there are no longer throwing large amounts of money at players who have yet to prove themselves on that continent. That is why you see a team like Panathinaikos signing a DeMarcus Nelson instead of wasting time trying to develop a prospect like Mudiay.

[Li_Duke]

Reports are breaking this morning that he will play in China for Guangdong.

One of the things people in this country have to understand is that Brandon Jennings was considered a complete flop from a European perspective. The elite teams there are no longer throwing large amounts of money at players who have yet to prove themselves on that continent. That is why you see a team like Panathinaikos signing a DeMarcus Nelson instead of wasting time trying to develop a prospect like Mudiay.

Guangdong has terrific food. I hope he embraces the food and culture instead of trying to find the closest McDonald's (though even the McDonald's food tastes better there).

[tommy]

Reports are breaking this morning that he will play in China for Guangdong.

One of the things people in this country have to understand is that Brandon Jennings was considered a complete flop from a European perspective. The elite teams there are no longer throwing large amounts of money at players who have yet to prove themselves on that continent. That is why you see a team like Panathinaikos signing a DeMarcus Nelson instead of wasting time trying to develop a prospect like Mudiay.

Good thing he aced all his Mandarin classes at Prime Prep . . . ;)

[Bluedog]

Guangdong has terrific food. I hope he embraces the food and culture instead of trying to find the closest McDonald's (though even the McDonald's food tastes better there).

Are you sure? ;)
A quarter of McDonald’s restaurants in China may have been serving expired meat (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/21/a-quarter-of-mcdonalds-restaurants-in-china-have-been-serving-expired-meat/)

[brevity]

Guangdong has terrific food. I hope he embraces the food and culture instead of trying to find the closest McDonald's (though even the McDonald's food tastes better there).

Sean May, who has a Chinese tattoo of indeterminate meaning (http://www.niubball.com/tag/sean-may/) on his left shoulder, can attest to this.


INTERVIEWER: Playing international basketball must be an exciting experience.

SEAN MAY: The food alone is great. Paris, Istanbul, Zagreb, Guangdong...

INTERVIEWER: Wait, you've played in Guangdong?

SEAN MAY: No, I've just eaten there.

[JasonEvans]

ESPN is saying (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11246862/emmanuel-mudiay-signs-12-million-deal-china) he is going to sign with a Chinese club for more than $1 mill for the year. That's quite a payday compared to what SMU was going to pay him being on campus for a year for free.

-Jason "we keep waiting to hear that the Intl option is viable for top high school stars... Jeremy Tyler, Brandon Jennings, and now Mudiay... is it ever going to be a real option?" Evans

[awhom111]

Guangdong has terrific food. I hope he embraces the food and culture instead of trying to find the closest McDonald's (though even the McDonald's food tastes better there).

Given that my family is from that province, I can vouch for that. Mudiay has had a rather different life than the typical American teenager, so I am sure he is aware of the cultural shift and need to adapt to the situation.


ESPN is saying (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11246862/emmanuel-mudiay-signs-12-million-deal-china) he is going to sign with a Chinese club for more than $1 mill for the year. That's quite a payday compared to what SMU was going to pay him being on campus for a year for free.

-Jason "we keep waiting to hear that the Intl option is viable for top high school stars... Jeremy Tyler, Brandon Jennings, and now Mudiay... is it ever going to be a real option?" Evans

Mudiay is a huge test case for the Chinese market, which usually signs veteran players with track record of some kind. If he does far better than the usual foreign point guard, other teams may try to recruit top American high school point guards. I feel like it might be harder for high school centers, who on average would be going up ex-NBA centers with significant strength advantages. Chinese teams are less likely to sign foreign players for positions 2,3, and 4.

As I mentioned in my last post, the market is more or less closed on these kids from the higher level European teams because both Jennings and Tyler were considered mistakes from the club perpsective. The number of players per year would be paid enough to make the decision very easy is not that large. I suspect we will continue to see a few, but mainly forced like Jennings or Mudiay and not so much voluntary like Tyler.

[Duke3517]

ESPN is saying (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11246862/emmanuel-mudiay-signs-12-million-deal-china) he is going to sign with a Chinese club for more than $1 mill for the year. That's quite a payday compared to what SMU was going to pay him being on campus for a year for free.

-Jason "we keep waiting to hear that the Intl option is viable for top high school stars... Jeremy Tyler, Brandon Jennings, and now Mudiay... is it ever going to be a real option?" Evans

That is why I'm shocked more don't go this route.

[kAzE]

ESPN is saying (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11246862/emmanuel-mudiay-signs-12-million-deal-china) he is going to sign with a Chinese club for more than $1 mill for the year. That's quite a payday compared to what SMU was going to pay him being on campus for a year for free.

-Jason "we keep waiting to hear that the Intl option is viable for top high school stars... Jeremy Tyler, Brandon Jennings, and now Mudiay... is it ever going to be a real option?" Evans

Ahhh . . . too bad he didn't sign with the Beijing Ducks. Would have been interesting to see him play with Starbury over here :)

Welcome to China, kid! I think he's going to easily be one of the top players in the CBA, no question. He might actually be the most athletic player in the league, I'm not even joking.

[Henderson]

That is why I'm shocked more don't go this route.

I think it has to do with player development, player visibility, stigma, and cultural comfort. But the times might be changing.

Player development: I don't doubt that there are excellent international coaches who are great teachers of the game who can prepare a player for the NBA. Better than Larry Brown? Not sure. International coaches taking on American players typically want to see scoring to justify the salaries. And right away. I'm not sure how much a stake they have currently in prepping a player for the next level. I don't really believe that coaches "produce" NBA players, but we've got some good ones on this continent, and they have a stake in the NBA success of their players. If more OAD prospects played oversees, maybe we'd see that mindset among (say) Chinese coaches, because it would allow them to attract more talented 19 year olds. But I don't think they're there yet.

Player visibility: Mudiay isn't going to be overlooked. But he isn't going to be on TV every week for his friends, family, sports commentators, and scouts to see. I could see that as an issue, particularly for non-lottery players. Even for the player who won't be overlooked by scouts, how many Guongdong games will his friends and family get to see? Has to be a consideration for these kids.

Stigma: Right now, in the US, fair or not, there is a stigma for Americans playing oversees. In the past, that's where players who couldn't make it stateside went (generalizing here, duly noting exceptions).

Cultural comfort: I personally think this should be a plus for 19 year olds. But not all 19 year olds agree. I've lived in a foreign country without speaking the language, and you either embrace it as a growth experience, or you feel lost. The food is weird. The street signs make no sense. And don't minimize the male adolescent thing: SMU girls vs. Guongdong girls? I'm not making a judgment but rather perceiving life through the 19 year old's lens. For a young college basketball star, college in the US is pretty sweet.

Those first three reasons hold true for the D-League too (though it also has the problem of paying poorly). And that may be changing. The last issue will probably always be there. Indeed, I suspect it explains in part why young Euro-stars don't immediately jump to the NBA when they can.

Things may change rapidly on all these fronts. The world is getting smaller; the NCAA is under pressure; and paradigms may be shifting. But right now, Mudiay is a sort of pioneer. It'll be interesting to see how that turns out, and I'm sure a lot of 16 year old phenoms who don't want to go to college are interested too.

[sagegrouse]

I think it has to do with player development, player visibility, stigma, and cultural comfort. But the times might be changing.

Player development: I don't doubt that there are excellent international coaches who are great teachers of the game who can prepare a player for the NBA. Better than Larry Brown? Not sure. International coaches taking on American players typically want to see scoring to justify the salaries. And right away. I'm not sure how much a stake they have currently in prepping a player for the next level. I don't really believe that coaches "produce" NBA players, but we've got some good ones on this continent, and they have a stake in the NBA success of their players. If more OAD prospects played oversees, maybe we'd see that mindset among (say) Chinese coaches, because it would allow them to attract more talented 19 year olds. But I don't think they're there yet.

Player visibility: Mudiay isn't going to be overlooked. But he isn't going to be on TV every week for his friends, family, sports commentators, and scouts to see. I could see that as an issue, particularly for non-lottery players. Even for the player who won't be overlooked by scouts, how many Guongdong games will his friends and family get to see? Has to be a consideration for these kids.

Stigma: Right now, in the US, fair or not, there is a stigma for Americans playing oversees. In the past, that's where players who couldn't make it stateside went (generalizing here, duly noting exceptions).

Cultural comfort: I personally think this should be a plus for 19 year olds. But not all 19 year olds agree. I've lived in a foreign country without speaking the language, and you either embrace it as a growth experience, or you feel lost. The food is weird. The street signs make no sense. And don't minimize the male adolescent thing: SMU girls vs. Guongdong girls? I'm not making a judgment but rather perceiving life through the 19 year old's lens. For a young college basketball star, college in the US is pretty sweet.

Those first three reasons hold true for the D-League too (though it also has the problem of paying poorly). And that may be changing. The last issue will probably always be there. Indeed, I suspect it explains in part why young Euro-stars don't immediately jump to the NBA when they can.

Things may change rapidly on all these fronts. The world is getting smaller; the NCAA is under pressure; and paradigms may be shifting. But right now, Mudiay is a sort of pioneer. It'll be interesting to see how that turns out, and I'm sure a lot of 16 year old phenoms who don't want to go to college are interested too.

The other issue, I believe, is personal development. Would a normal American teenager benefit more as a person in college, in the D League or playing overseas? It depends, of course, but college should involve a wider and more diverse set of friends, an educational environment (even if sometimes muted), and more nurturing coaches.

I am a believer in the intangible educational benefits of college life, such as living in a college dorm or a Greek house. After Duke, I attended grad school at another private university and, as an off-campus dweller, got to know the students who commuted to school (basically to save money). Over a three-year period I observed that these kids changed much less than the kids who lived in the dorms. Living with other college-age kids is an education in itself, and if you filmed or recorded all the conversations that occurred, you would probably be amazed that an educational process is going on, but I believe it is.

Playing in China as a teenager, even accompanied by a parent or other adult, sounds like a process that produces an extremely immature 21YO, and it could even be a disaster.

[NSDukeFan]

The other issue, I believe, is personal development. Would a normal American teenager benefit more as a person in college, in the D League or playing overseas? It depends, of course, but college should involve a wider and more diverse set of friends, an educational environment (even if sometimes muted), and more nurturing coaches.

I am a believer in the intangible educational benefits of college life, such as living in a college dorm or a Greek house. After Duke, I attended grad school at another private university and, as an off-campus dweller, got to know the students who commuted to school (basically to save money). Over a three-year period I observed that these kids changed much less than the kids who lived in the dorms. Living with other college-age kids is an education in itself, and if you filmed or recorded all the conversations that occurred, you would probably be amazed that an educational process is going on, but I believe it is.

Playing in China as a teenager, even accompanied by a parent or other adult, sounds like a process that produces an extremely immature 21YO, and it could even be a disaster.

I agree with the non-scholastic education you describe, but I don't see why living abroad couldn't also offer immense educational opportunities, as Henderson described?

[Henderson]

I agree with the non-scholastic education you describe, but I don't see why living abroad couldn't also offer immense educational opportunities, as Henderson described?

I think sage makes a good point though. It's a tradeoff between two very different forms of personal development.

[awhom111]

The eyes of the basketball world will be in one place for a few hours tomorrow (sorry Yao, but they will not be on Yiwu even though I am curious how his use of Delonte West and Michael Beasley on the same team will work). The Chinese schedulers made a big choice for their opening game as Mudiay and Guangdong head north to Beijing. That means he goes head to head with Starbury for his first professional game with Randolph Morris as the other foreigner on the opposition. If you happen to get One World Sports (on sports packages for a handful of providers) you can actually watch live at 7:35am EDT. Just to give you an idea since stats in China often look inflated compared to other leagues (primarily helped by the 8 extra minutes a game), anything less than 20 and 6 will mean Mudiay is considered a bit of a flop for the league. They probably signed him with the idea of at least 25 points and between 7 and 8 assists a game. It will be interesting to see the viral nature of the internet at work as reports filter in tomorrow morning.

[subzero02]

I won't be able to watch this game live but I'd be interested in catching a replay. I'm a huge Randolph Morris fan... I guess I could checkout the hype around Mudiay as well.

[awhom111]

I won't be able to watch this game live but I'd be interested in catching a replay. I'm a huge Randolph Morris fan... I guess I could checkout the hype around Mudiay as well.

More or less as expected, Mudiay had a tough adjustment to his first game with 18 points to Starbury's 32. Morris also had a solid game with Yi doing most of the damage for the losing team.