Andre Dawkins makes the Heat!

[geraldsneighbor]

Just read on twitter that Andre will play for both Miami and Houston in the upcoming Summer Leagues. Miami participates in the Orlando edition while Houston is in Las Vegas, I believe. Both are tremendous situations for Andre. If Dre is able to make the team in Miami and Ray Allen returns he would be a great mentor for Andre, who has always looked up to Allen. Have to imagine wherever he ends up that jump shot has a chance to be a weapon for a long time to come.

[Henderson]

1. I hope he's getting paid for this:
2. I hope he's got representation that is working the overseas hotlines; and
3. I hope his representation is being honest with him.

I love 'Dre, but the NBA seems like a stretch at this point. I hope I'm wrong.

[SupaDave]

1. I hope he's getting paid for this:
2. I hope he's got representation that is working the overseas hotlines; and
3. I hope his representation is being honest with him.

I love 'Dre, but the NBA seems like a stretch at this point. I hope I'm wrong.

After Lance and Shavlik (and even Nolan, J-Dub, and Jon) you would think that folks would give him a shot...

[jimsumner]

After Lance and Shavlik (and even Nolan, J-Dub, and Jon) you would think that folks would give him a shot...

I'm not sure I see the connection between Dawkins and the 2011 ACC Player of the Year. Why would the fact that a consensus first-team All-American couldn't last more than two years in the NBA (hopefully that will change) be a good sign for a player who never averaged even nine ppg in college?

Lance Thomas might be a useful analog. Thomas was willing to woodshed in the NBDL, work on his game, persevere and improve. And he had a shot in the league but couldn't leverage that into a long-term career. Note that Thomas ended his college career starting on an NCAA title team. Unlike Dawkins.

Can Dawkins show the same work ethic and ability to improve? I hope this doesn't come across as harsh, but right now he's an undersized two who can't defend, pass, dribble or rebound at anything approaching an NBA level. Being an occasionally transcendent 3-point shooter is nice and all but that couldn't keep Seth Curry in the NBA last season and Curry was a much better college player than was Dawkins.

So, he's got a lot of work to do. A lot.

[SupaDave]

I'm not sure I see the connection between Dawkins and the 2011 ACC Player of the Year. Why would the fact that a consensus first-team All-American couldn't last more than two years in the NBA (hopefully that will change) be a good sign for a player who never averaged even nine ppg in college?

Lance Thomas might be a useful analog. Thomas was willing to woodshed in the NBDL, work on his game, persevere and improve. And he had a shot in the league but couldn't leverage that into a long-term career. Note that Thomas ended his college career starting on an NCAA title team. Unlike Dawkins.

Can Dawkins show the same work ethic and ability to improve? I hope this doesn't come across as harsh, but right now he's an undersized two who can't defend, pass, dribble or rebound at anything approaching an NBA level. Being an occasionally transcendent 3-point shooter is nice and all but that couldn't keep Seth Curry in the NBA last season and Curry was a much better college player than was Dawkins.

So, he's got a lot of work to do. A lot.

Sure he does Jim but at the same time he's got a few intangibles that Curry didn't have in his favor such as height, weight, and strength. For Dre it's all about landing with the right team. The Lakers would have given him the ball every possession last season. If he works for it, and he just may then he could tap levels of his game we haven't seen bc sometimes the NBA just does that for some players.

The NBA doesn't care about accolades when they are staffing their teams for the future.and for the record, Dre is a national champion and in many people's eyes around here an MVP. He's hasn't shown JJ type resilience yet but then again he came back to high level college basketball after a year off even though there were few chances to be featured - and he got his for the most part.

In the NBA - you got 24 seconds. Not a whole lot of defensive sets go down in that time. With Dre's quick release and a good showing this summer and I think we see Dre on a squad. (for the record, I was right about Lance too when no one gave him a shot). In the NBA, you gotta be ready, Dre is like Carmelo Anthony coming off the bench (now I'm a tad bit carried away here but you get it)...

[CDu]

I am going to agree with Jim on this one. Anything can happen. But Dawkins has a lot of work to do to get meaningful NBA minutes. The list of guys who have played in the summer leagues that never sniffed the league is pretty extensive. I wish him the best, but I am not overly optimistic.

[awhom111]

1. I hope he's getting paid for this:
2. I hope he's got representation that is working the overseas hotlines; and
3. I hope his representation is being honest with him.

I love 'Dre, but the NBA seems like a stretch at this point. I hope I'm wrong.

The NBA is a stretch for all but about 30-40 American players who went through the draft. Pretty much everywhere had Andre as just outside the draft in terms of prospect rankings with one or two pegging at the end of the draft. He had plenty of workout opportunities. It seems like there are at least a few NBA teams that at least want to see what he can do, which is all you can ask for.


After Lance and Shavlik (and even Nolan, J-Dub, and Jon) you would think that folks would give him a shot...

I always go for optimism until I have reasons not to be. That Andre got invites from enough teams to play in both summer leagues means that he will have all of the opportunities to either prove himself or not.


Hopefully the summer league experience will give him some exposure that will attract some solid international opportunities if an NBA/NBDL opportunity doesn't pan out.

Re Henderson's earlier post--obviously, I don't know the quality of Andre's representation. But Andre is smart, and he has navigated through some tough times. I would be very surprised if he could be sold a bill of goods by a dishonest or incompetent agent. I'm sure he wants to play in the NBA, but I am also pretty confident that if that isn't going to happen, he will be realistic enough to find another opportunity.

That's the key. The Las Vegas Summer League in particular is scouted by pretty much every league that can afford to go. If Andre does not get a training camp invite, he can still show something to coaches and scouts from around the world.

Andre's listed agent appears to be the same guy as Lance Thomas has. He has at least one NBA client and overseas players at a variety of levels around the globe.

[g-money]

Can Dawkins show the same work ethic and ability to improve? I hope this doesn't come across as harsh, but right now he's an undersized two who can't defend, pass, dribble or rebound at anything approaching an NBA level. Being an occasionally transcendent 3-point shooter is nice and all but that couldn't keep Seth Curry in the NBA last season and Curry was a much better college player than was Dawkins.

So, he's got a lot of work to do. A lot.

So you're saying he's the next Jeff Hornacek? John Paxson? Craig Hodges? I think Andre could live with that. :)

[JNort]

I'm not sure I see the connection between Dawkins and the 2011 ACC Player of the Year. Why would the fact that a consensus first-team All-American couldn't last more than two years in the NBA (hopefully that will change) be a good sign for a player who never averaged even nine ppg in college?

Lance Thomas might be a useful analog. Thomas was willing to woodshed in the NBDL, work on his game, persevere and improve. And he had a shot in the league but couldn't leverage that into a long-term career. Note that Thomas ended his college career starting on an NCAA title team. Unlike Dawkins.

Can Dawkins show the same work ethic and ability to improve? I hope this doesn't come across as harsh, but right now he's an undersized two who can't defend, pass, dribble or rebound at anything approaching an NBA level. Being an occasionally transcendent 3-point shooter is nice and all but that couldn't keep Seth Curry in the NBA last season and Curry was a much better college player than was Dawkins.

So, he's got a lot of work to do. A lot.
Well Dre has way more going for him than Seth. Dre has something the NBA adores, elite athleticism. Dre is strong in the upper body, can jump out of the gym and is a top shooter. As role player at the 2 guard position he doesn't need to have good handles. Only his defense is a question IMO.

[sagegrouse]

Well Dre has way more going for him than Seth. Dre has something the NBA adores, elite athleticism. Dre is strong in the upper body, can jump out of the gym and is a top shooter. As role player at the 2 guard position he doesn't need to have good handles. Only his defense is a question IMO.

Andre Dawkins played 450 minutes his senior year; Seth played 1150 minutes, even though nursing an injury all year. Now why is it that Andre couldn't get in the game very much?

[FerryFor50]

Well Dre has way more going for him than Seth. Dre has something the NBA adores, elite athleticism. Dre is strong in the upper body, can jump out of the gym and is a top shooter. As role player at the 2 guard position he doesn't need to have good handles. Only his defense is a question IMO.

Eh, I don't think he has "elite athleticism."

His vertical measured at 30".

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/1714998/andre-dawkins

This is his scouting profile:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2105396-andre-dawkins-nba-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-more

At 6'4", his 30" vert isn't great. For instance, Nick Young is 6'3" and projected as a shooting guard. Teams were worried about his size, but he is way more athletic than Dawkins and showed more ability at Arizona.

His vertical? 41.5"

Now THAT'S elite.

[CDu]

So you're saying he's the next Jeff Hornacek? John Paxson? Craig Hodges? I think Andre could live with that. :)

Pump the brakes a bit. Hornacek and Paxson were both combo guards that averaged 6 assists per 36 minutes. They absolutely could dribble and pass. To a lesser degree the same is true for Hodges. But Hodges was probably the best pure shooter in the NBA. That isn't going to be true for Dawkins.

There is certainly a chance Dawkins could catch on somewhere as a backup 3pt specialist. But let's not overstate that chance by suggesting faulty comps.

[rhynelander]

Eh, I don't think he has "elite athleticism."

His vertical measured at 30".

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/1714998/andre-dawkins

This is his scouting profile:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2105396-andre-dawkins-nba-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-more

At 6'4", his 30" vert isn't great. For instance, Nick Young is 6'3" and projected as a shooting guard. Teams were worried about his size, but he is way more athletic than Dawkins and showed more ability at Arizona.

His vertical? 41.5"

Now THAT'S elite.

So the 30" here are not quite the same stat as Young's 41.5". I just couldn't believe that Andre's Vert was 30", that was my max vert in High School and Andre can throw down, hard.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19jtu4_duke-s-andre-dawkins-nasty-follow-jam-acc-must-see-moment_sport

So on draftexpress.com Andre's vert is 30" when standing, no steps. He has no max vert number listed.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andre-Dawkins-5733/

Nick Young on the other hand is indeed elite. His standing vert is 33.5 while his max vert is listed at 41.5.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nick-Johnson-6524/

So it's a case of apples and oranges when we compare his 41.5 to Andre's 30. Maybe we could assume Andre's Max vert is 36"-39", which is awesome and along with his length explain his occasional fantastic dunks. He is still not in the same category of leapers like Nick Young or Andrew Wiggins.

[rhynelander]

http://youtu.be/78GHbtZKzIo

Dawkins can really jump. I mean my mans jumped over Hairston.
At least I think that was Hairston... That hand kinda blocks the jersey.

[Kedsy]

Andre Dawkins played 450 minutes his senior year; Seth played 1150 minutes, even though nursing an injury all year. Now why is it that Andre couldn't get in the game very much?

Well, this doesn't explain it entirely, but here are the perimeter rotations from Seth's last year at Duke and Andre's last year at Duke (numbers are from my recruiting/rotation post from a few weeks ago; lower is better if you don't remember):

2013: Seth Curry (1.5), Rasheed Sulaimon (2.0), Quinn Cook (2.5), Tyler Thornton (3.0) [plus Alex Murphy (3.5) at end of bench]

2014: Rasheed Sulaimon (1.5), Rodney Hood (1.5), Andre Dawkins (1.5), Quinn Cook (2.0), Tyler Thornton (2.5) [plus Matt Jones (3.0) and Semi Ojeleye (3.0) at end of bench]

Andre had a LOT more competition for perimeter minutes than Seth did. Like I said, it may not entirely explain why Seth had 2.5x as many minutes as Andre, but (especially since the perimeter guys behind Andre were our only PGs) it probably does explain a pretty large portion of the difference.

Put another way, if the perimeter rotation other than Andre this past season was just Quinn, Tyler, and Rasheed -- and nobody else (like it was Seth's last season) -- then I feel confident in saying Andre would have logged at least 1100 minutes. And quite frankly, if Andre had logged 1100 minutes I feel confident he would have been drafted.

I agree with those who think Andre should have a better chance to succeed in the NBA than Seth did/does.

[Kedsy]

Nick Young on the other hand is indeed elite. His standing vert is 33.5 while his max vert is listed at 41.5.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nick-Johnson-6524/

You guys mean Nick Johnson, right? Not Nick Young.

[Kedsy]

To a lesser degree the same is true for Hodges. But Hodges was probably the best pure shooter in the NBA. That isn't going to be true for Dawkins.

Andre may not be the best pure shooter, but he'd be up there. The table below lists Andre and Seth alongside eleven NBA "shooters," and shows the true shooting percentage and effective field goal percentage for each player in his last year of college.

I didn't make this list so you could pick apart why each guy isn't comparable, so please don't bother. I admit the comps may not all be perfect (for example, Steph Curry is a way more than a shooter and JJ Redick took more difficult shots in college, etc., etc.). But these eleven guys all primarily make a living shooting the basketball. And Andre is certainly top five as a "pure shooter."



Player ts% eFG%
Kyle Korver 0.674 0.633
Steve Novak 0.671 0.634
Andre Dawkins 0.634 0.614
J.J. Redick 0.630 0.578
Jodie Meeks 0.629 0.566
Seth Curry 0.617 0.577
Anthony Morrow 0.611 0.579
Wesley Matthews 0.607 0.527
Stephen Curry 0.604 0.549
Danny Green 0.592 0.569
Arron Afflalo 0.589 0.556
Klay Thompson 0.574 0.525
Craig Hodges 0.502 0.475
Khris Middleton 0.464 0.433


NOTE: For kicks, I put Craig Hodges's numbers in the table as well, although since I don't think there was a three-point shot when he played, his numbers don't mean very much compared to the others.

[Des Esseintes]

Andre may not be the best pure shooter, but he'd be up there. The table below lists Andre and Seth alongside eleven NBA "shooters," and shows the true shooting percentage and effective field goal percentage for each player in his last year of college.

I didn't make this list so you could pick apart why each guy isn't comparable, so please don't bother. I admit the comps may not all be perfect (for example, Steph Curry is a way more than a shooter and JJ Redick took more difficult shots in college, etc., etc.). But these eleven guys all primarily make a living shooting the basketball. And Andre is certainly top five as a "pure shooter."



Player ts% eFG%
Kyle Korver 0.674 0.633
Steve Novak 0.671 0.634
Andre Dawkins 0.634 0.614
J.J. Redick 0.630 0.578
Jodie Meeks 0.629 0.566
Seth Curry 0.617 0.577
Anthony Morrow 0.611 0.579
Wesley Matthews 0.607 0.527
Stephen Curry 0.604 0.549
Danny Green 0.592 0.569
Arron Afflalo 0.589 0.556
Klay Thompson 0.574 0.525
Craig Hodges 0.502 0.475
Khris Middleton 0.464 0.433


NOTE: For kicks, I put Craig Hodges's numbers in the table as well, although since I don't think there was a three-point shot when he played, his numbers don't mean very much compared to the others.
Kedsy, I hear you, but I'm not sure how much explanatory power your table has. eFG% and true shooting are very useful stats, but I don't think you can just dump Andre's percentages in among a bunch of elite NBA shooters' and claim that since his numbers are equivalent his shooting is, too. Here are the eFG% NCAA leaders from this past season. How many of these guys will join the ranks of NBA sharpshooters? McDermott, very likely. Anyone else? I'm not seeing it.

1. Jarvis Williams .648
2. Zikiteran Woodley .635
3. Kyle Hittle .633
4. Karvel Anderson .633
5. Marshall Bjorklund .629
T.J. Bray .629
7. Terrence Smith .629
8. Jameel Warney .616
9. Montrezl Harrell .612
10. De'Mon Brooks .610
11. Sean Armand .609
12. Casey Prather .606
13. Issiah Grayson .606
14. Tymell Murphy .605
15. Doug McDermott .603

Andre might very well have a good enough shooting tool to make it, but the world is full of Salim Stoudamires (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/salim-stoudamire-1.html) who put up pretty percentages (.689 TS%, .647 eFG% senior year; waaaay better than Andre) in college but couldn't reproduce it in the Association.

[Kedsy]

Kedsy, I hear you, but I'm not sure how much explanatory power your table has. eFG% and true shooting are very useful stats, but I don't think you can just dump Andre's percentages in among a bunch of elite NBA shooters' and claim that since his numbers are equivalent his shooting is, too. Here are the eFG% NCAA leaders from this past season. How many of these guys will join the ranks of NBA sharpshooters? McDermott, very likely. Anyone else? I'm not seeing it.

1. Jarvis Williams .648
2. Zikiteran Woodley .635
3. Kyle Hittle .633
4. Karvel Anderson .633
5. Marshall Bjorklund .629
T.J. Bray .629
7. Terrence Smith .629
8. Jameel Warney .616
9. Montrezl Harrell .612
10. De'Mon Brooks .610
11. Sean Armand .609
12. Casey Prather .606
13. Issiah Grayson .606
14. Tymell Murphy .605
15. Doug McDermott .603

Andre might very well have a good enough shooting tool to make it, but the world is full of Salim Stoudamires (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/salim-stoudamire-1.html) who put up pretty percentages (.689 TS%, .647 eFG% senior year; waaaay better than Andre) in college but couldn't reproduce it in the Association.

OK, first of all, I'm simply suggesting that Andre's shooting is good enough to get him on an NBA roster (something Salim Stoudamire achieved for three seasons). So I do think his shooting percentages relative to good NBA shooters are relevant.

Second, your list above is misleading. For example, of the eight guys on your list who had better eFG% than Andre's .614, four of them didn't take a thee-pointer all season and two others took less than 25 threes in the season -- those six players are clearly irrelevant to this discussion. The remaining two guys who had a higher eFG% than Andre played for (very) low majors (Incarnate Word and Robert Morris). Considering the percentage of Andre's shots that came beyond the three-point line, and the fact that he played against high-major competition, his college eFG% and ts% are very impressive.

Finally, there are obviously other factors in play here. Salim Stoudamire may have had trouble getting his shot off in the NBA because he was 6'1" in high heels on a tall day. Seth Curry is 6'1" w/o shoes. He also might have some trouble getting his shot off against NBA SGs. Andre Dawkins is 6'3.5" w/o shoes. Which I understand isn't as tall as someone like Kyle Korver (6'6.25 w/o shoes), but especially considering how much elevation Andre gets on his shot, Andre should be tall enough to get his shot off (unlike SS and SC). Andre also has a decent NBA-caliber vertical and other athletic attributes, and a good-for-his-height 6'8.5 wingspan (by comparison, Seth Curry's wingspan is only 6'4), unlike so many college shooting specialists.

If you're still not seeing it, that's fine. Obviously none of the NBA GMs saw it, either, but I still think Andre will make it to the NBA someday.

[Des Esseintes]

OK, first of all, I'm simply suggesting that Andre's shooting is good enough to get him on an NBA roster (something Salim Stoudamire achieved for three seasons). So I do think his shooting percentages relative to good NBA shooters are relevant.

Second, your list above is misleading. For example, of the eight guys on your list who had better eFG% than Andre's .614, four of them didn't take a thee-pointer all season and two others took less than 25 threes in the season -- those six players are clearly irrelevant to this discussion. The remaining two guys who had a higher eFG% than Andre played for (very) low majors (Incarnate Word and Robert Morris). Considering the percentage of Andre's shots that came beyond the three-point line, and the fact that he played against high-major competition, his college eFG% and ts% are very impressive.

Finally, there are obviously other factors in play here. Salim Stoudamire may have had trouble getting his shot off in the NBA because he was 6'1" in high heels on a tall day. Seth Curry is 6'1" w/o shoes. He also might have some trouble getting his shot off against NBA SGs. Andre Dawkins is 6'3.5" w/o shoes. Which I understand isn't as tall as someone like Kyle Korver (6'6.25 w/o shoes), but especially considering how much elevation Andre gets on his shot, Andre should be tall enough to get his shot off (unlike SS and SC). Andre also has a decent NBA-caliber vertical and other athletic attributes, and a good-for-his-height 6'8.5 wingspan (by comparison, Seth Curry's wingspan is only 6'4), unlike so many college shooting specialists.

If you're still not seeing it, that's fine. Obviously none of the NBA GMs saw it, either, but I still think Andre will make it to the NBA someday.

No, I see it. I guess I just didn't think the table you put up told us much. I mean, everything you say in this response is true, but for every point you raise there is a counter. For example, while Andre played against high-major competition, he didn't play enough or shoot enough to qualify on the national leaderboard. That says something. You might say it's that K didn't play him enough--and I'd agree with you--but the fact remains that guys who make it in the NBA, even at the end of the bench, generally played a lot more in college than Andre did. Likewise, while Andre has decent size and athleticism compared to the Salim Stoudamires and Seth Currys of the world, he also has a much narrower skillset. (Your point that Stoudamire actually stuck around a little while in the NBA is well-taken, though.) You've been vocal on the board about the importance of Andre moving without the ball. He was better about that as a senior, but for whatever reason he definitely tailed off in that regard in the back half of the year. Is that something he will ever bring consistently? I unfortunately have my doubts at this point. I really want Andre to succeed at the highest level. I just can't shake the feeling that, despite his terrible luck, he would have made a deeper statistical imprint in his time at Duke if he was going to end up making the most competitive sports league on Planet Earth.

[Kedsy]

You've been vocal on the board about the importance of Andre moving without the ball. He was better about that as a senior, but for whatever reason he definitely tailed off in that regard in the back half of the year. Is that something he will ever bring consistently? I unfortunately have my doubts at this point.

The most important point, in my mind, regarding Andre's ability to get to the League is how much effort is he willing to put in. Clearly, he had an excuse (or at least a reason) for his inconsistency in this area during his first three seasons. Presumably this was much less of a factor his last year at Duke but he still seemed to fade in and out. Obviously, if he wants to make it in the NBA he has to really want it.

I'd say the fact that he chose to participate in both summer leagues is a promising sign in this regard. Obviously only time will tell.

[sagegrouse]

No, I see it. I guess I just didn't think the table you put up told us much. I mean, everything you say in this response is true, but for every point you raise there is a counter. For example, while Andre played against high-major competition, he didn't play enough or shoot enough to qualify on the national leaderboard. That says something. You might say it's that K didn't play him enough--and I'd agree with you--but the fact remains that guys who make it in the NBA, even at the end of the bench, generally played a lot more in college than Andre did. Likewise, while Andre has decent size and athleticism compared to the Salim Stoudamires and Seth Currys of the world, he also has a much narrower skillset. (Your point that Stoudamire actually stuck around a little while in the NBA is well-taken, though.) You've been vocal on the board about the importance of Andre moving without the ball. He was better about that as a senior, but for whatever reason he definitely tailed off in that regard in the back half of the year. Is that something he will ever bring consistently? I unfortunately have my doubts at this point. I really want Andre to succeed at the highest level. I just can't shake the feeling that, despite his terrible luck, he would have made a deeper statistical imprint in his time at Duke if he was going to end up making the most competitive sports league on Planet Earth.

Kedsy may be right that Andre has a better skill-set for the NBA than Seth. But I waited five years for Andre to become a consistent performer at Duke, and I don't intend to waste much emotional energy waiting for him to succeed in the League.

[Henderson]

Kedsy may be right that Andre has a better skill-set for the NBA than Seth. But I waited five years for Andre to become a consistent performer at Duke, and I don't intend to waste much emotional energy waiting for him to succeed in the League.

Agree. There was a reason Andre wasn't finding minutes for big sections of last season. If your only demonstrated skill is that of a spot-up shooter, you have to be good and consistent. You can't have your shot disappear for long stretches. Not if you aren't also capable at a high level of creating shots, driving the lane, defending, or rebounding. I love Dre, but I don't see him finding PT in the NBA. Seth is a bit more interesting, because he moves well without the ball, works screens to find his shot, drives the lane, and is a serviceable defender. He doesn't have Dre's body or some of Dre's stats, but he isn't a one-dimensional player. And K wanted him on the court. Dre not so much last year. That tells me quite a bit.

[Kedsy]

And K wanted him on the court. Dre not so much last year. That tells me quite a bit.

Like I said in an earlier post. Seth's last year at Duke we only had four perimeter players (Seth, Quinn, Rasheed, and Tyler) for three positions. Andre had to compete with those same three guys plus Rodney Hood (plus, to a lesser extent, Matt Jones). So obviously there were other factors leading to K's playing-time decisions.

If Rodney hadn't been on last year's team, I suspect Andre would have played almost as much (or the same as) Seth did in his last year. In other words, the fact that Seth played more in 2013 than Andre played in 2014 probably shouldn't tell you as much as it seems to.

[Henderson]

Like I said in an earlier post. Seth's last year at Duke we only had four perimeter players (Seth, Quinn, Rasheed, and Tyler) for three positions. Andre had to compete with those same three guys plus Rodney Hood (plus, to a lesser extent, Matt Jones). So obviously there were other factors leading to K's playing-time decisions.

If Rodney hadn't been on last year's team, I suspect Andre would have played almost as much (or the same as) Seth did in his last year. In other words, the fact that Seth played more in 2013 than Andre played in 2014 probably shouldn't tell you as much as it seems to.

Maybe. But I remember during last season when some folks on here were clamoring for more Dre PT, I was looking at his stats for the previous few games and thinking, "Why?". There were multiple games where K would put him in, not get anything, and pull him out. He just wasn't getting it done. And by "it" I mean draining 3s reliably, because that was what his game had become. If I noticed that and K noticed that, I doubt NBA GMs missed it. I read one report of an NBA tryout in which Dre was described as taking a lot of shots, not making a high percentage, and not finding open team mates as an alternative. I can't tell you how much I admire Dre and hope he succeeds at a very high level. I'm just being descriptive and realistic.

[SupaDave]

Agree. There was a reason Andre wasn't finding minutes for big sections of last season. If your only demonstrated skill is that of a spot-up shooter, you have to be good and consistent. You can't have your shot disappear for long stretches. Not if you aren't also capable at a high level of creating shots, driving the lane, defending, or rebounding. I love Dre, but I don't see him finding PT in the NBA. Seth is a bit more interesting, because he moves well without the ball, works screens to find his shot, drives the lane, and is a serviceable defender. He doesn't have Dre's body or some of Dre's stats, but he isn't a one-dimensional player. And K wanted him on the court. Dre not so much last year. That tells me quite a bit.

Actually in our last game of the year this year, if Dre had gotten hot, he would have easily had a 20 point game b/c he was given ample opportunities to shoot (blanked on 5 shots in 7 minutes).

[Henderson]

Actually in our last game of the year this year, if Dre had gotten hot, he would have easily had a 20 point game b/c he was given ample opportunities to shoot (blanked on 5 shots in 7 minutes).

We were down, and we needed points desperately. K took a chance. Didn't work out, because... well, because he blanked on 5 shots in 7 minutes. Hence my point.

[Des Esseintes]

The most important point, in my mind, regarding Andre's ability to get to the League is how much effort is he willing to put in. Clearly, he had an excuse (or at least a reason) for his inconsistency in this area during his first three seasons. Presumably this was much less of a factor his last year at Duke but he still seemed to fade in and out. Obviously, if he wants to make it in the NBA he has to really want it.

I'd say the fact that he chose to participate in both summer leagues is a promising sign in this regard. Obviously only time will tell.

Fully agree.

[vick]

Maybe. But I remember during last season when some folks on here were clamoring for more Dre PT, I was looking at his stats for the previous few games and thinking, "Why?". There were multiple games where K would put him in, not get anything, and pull him out. He just wasn't getting it done. And by "it" I mean draining 3s reliably, because that was what his game had become. If I noticed that and K noticed that, I doubt NBA GMs missed it. I read one report of an NBA tryout in which Dre was described as taking a lot of shots, not making a high percentage, and not finding open team mates as an alternative. I can't tell you how much I admire Dre and hope he succeeds at a very high level. I'm just being descriptive and realistic.

So, I agree with those who say the odds are against Dawkins making the league because, hey, it's a tough league, but do you really think inability to hit threes reliably was what was getting him taken out of the game? Statistically, by practically any metric (e.g. PER (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duke/2014.html)) he was one of our better offensive players all of last year on a per-minute basis. The "shot disappearing" stuff is pretty much classic "fooled by randomness" and I doubt competent NBA GMs will be swayed by that.

[Reilly]

... Here are the eFG% NCAA leaders from this past season ... Zikiteran Woodley .635 ...

Not to get off-topic ...

I would like to explore Zikiteran Woodley's eFG% a bit more and go inside the numbers. Should I start a new thread?

And in h.s. ... Jesus H ... 3,835 h.s. points ... doesn't anybody guard anymore ...

http://www.nsudemons.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2949

[jimsumner]

Sure he does Jim but at the same time he's got a few intangibles that Curry didn't have in his favor such as height, weight, and strength. For Dre it's all about landing with the right team. The Lakers would have given him the ball every possession last season. If he works for it, and he just may then he could tap levels of his game we haven't seen bc sometimes the NBA just does that for some players.

The NBA doesn't care about accolades when they are staffing their teams for the future.and for the record, Dre is a national champion and in many people's eyes around here an MVP. He's hasn't shown JJ type resilience yet but then again he came back to high level college basketball after a year off even though there were few chances to be featured - and he got his for the most part.

In the NBA - you got 24 seconds. Not a whole lot of defensive sets go down in that time. With Dre's quick release and a good showing this summer and I think we see Dre on a squad. (for the record, I was right about Lance too when no one gave him a shot). In the NBA, you gotta be ready, Dre is like Carmelo Anthony coming off the bench (now I'm a tad bit carried away here but you get it)...

Wouldn't height, weight and strength be tangibles? You can measure those. Curry, IMO, has a big edge on Dawkins in true intangibles, basketball IQ, work ethic, competiveness. Phil Henderson, Kevin Strickland, Thomas Hill and Jeff Capel were athletic players in the 6-4, 6-5 range. All were effective 3-point shooters at Duke and all were substantially better than Dawkins in college. And not one ever played a second in the NBA. Tommy Amaker, Chris Carrawell, Jon Scheyer. All NBA no-shows.

For all of his alleged height, weight and strength advantages, Dawkins was never more than a role player at Duke, usually off the bench. On a team crying out for veteran leadership and production, Duke's fifth-year senior never could leverage those advantages into a starting role.

If Andre Dawkins was an NBA prospect, don't you think he should have played ahead of Tyler Thornton?

The narrative from Duke on Dawkins coming into the season was that his off-season workouts had been concentrated on improving his liabilities. He was going to get to the rim off the bounce, get tough rebounds in traffic, engage defensively.

None of that happened.

I don't mean to minimize the personal tragedy he endured. But the NBA is a business and, Isaiah Austin notwithstanding, there's not a lot of sentiment in the NBA. By NBA standards, he's a small wing guard with average athleticism. Dawkins has work to do get the next level, a lot of work to do. I hope he makes it. But it is not going to be easy.

[Dukehky]

Sure he does Jim but at the same time he's got a few intangibles that Curry didn't have in his favor such as height, weight, and strength. For Dre it's all about landing with the right team. The Lakers would have given him the ball every possession last season. If he works for it, and he just may then he could tap levels of his game we haven't seen bc sometimes the NBA just does that for some players.

The NBA doesn't care about accolades when they are staffing their teams for the future.and for the record, Dre is a national champion and in many people's eyes around here an MVP. He's hasn't shown JJ type resilience yet but then again he came back to high level college basketball after a year off even though there were few chances to be featured - and he got his for the most part.

In the NBA - you got 24 seconds. Not a whole lot of defensive sets go down in that time. With Dre's quick release and a good showing this summer and I think we see Dre on a squad. (for the record, I was right about Lance too when no one gave him a shot). In the NBA, you gotta be ready, Dre is like Carmelo Anthony coming off the bench (now I'm a tad bit carried away here but you get it)...

I think that those are tangible things.

I know Dre can shoot, but if he was such a great shooter, he would not have gone through games in college with DNP's. Some people just aren't good enough to play in the NBA and I think Andre falls under that category.

I hope to God he proves me wrong, and I think my posting record here has shown nothing but support for Dre and his shot throughout his years here. In fact during in game threads I often say that I don't want him to ever pass the ball, just jack it up once he gets it. He's my favorite player since Redick. But thinking he has a good shot at getting onto an NBA roster is unrealistic. Trajan Langdon was a GREAT shooter and better player for Duke than Dre was and he didn't stick, but had a great professional basketball career. If hoops is how Dre wants to make his living, I think it is going to be somewhere else.

[MCFinARL]

Wouldn't height, weight and strength be tangibles? You can measure those. Curry, IMO, has a big edge on Dawkins in true intangibles, basketball IQ, work ethic, competiveness. Phil Henderson, Kevin Strickland, Thomas Hill and Jeff Capel were athletic players in the 6-4, 6-5 range. All were effective 3-point shooters at Duke and all were substantially better than Dawkins in college. And not one ever played a second in the NBA. Tommy Amaker, Chris Carrawell, Jon Scheyer. All NBA no-shows.

For all of his alleged height, weight and strength advantages, Dawkins was never more than a role player at Duke, usually off the bench. On a team crying out for veteran leadership and production, Duke's fifth-year senior never could leverage those advantages into a starting role.

If Andre Dawkins was an NBA prospect, don't you think he should have played ahead of Tyler Thornton?

The narrative from Duke on Dawkins coming into the season was that his off-season workouts had been concentrated on improving his liabilities. He was going to get to the rim off the bounce, get tough rebounds in traffic, engage defensively.

None of that happened.


I don't mean to minimize the personal tragedy he endured. But the NBA is a business and, Isaiah Austin notwithstanding, there's not a lot of sentiment in the NBA. By NBA standards, he's a small wing guard with average athleticism. Dawkins has work to do get the next level, a lot of work to do. I hope he makes it. But it is not going to be easy.

Generally speaking, I think you make good points. But I think it's too simple to say Andre would have played ahead of Tyler if he were an NBA prospect. Playing time decisions in college, and maybe especially at Duke, are not based solely on NBA potential, but on how well the players fit into what the college coach and team are trying to do. Tyler's ability to understand what Coach K wanted to see on the court and to channel the toughness and focus Coach K likes often earned him playing time ahead of more physically talented players.

I also disagree, at least a little bit, with your conclusion that "none of that happened." I think all of it happened to some extent--Andre drove to the basket more, rebounded more, played better defense overall than in previous seasons. He didn't magically transform himself into a different player than he had been before, and thus the extent to which he improved these parts of his game were not enough to earn him more playing time against the stiff competition he faced. But he did improve.

I don't disagree that Andre's making an NBA roster is a long shot, and that he will have to work very hard to get that chance (and even if he does work hard, that probably won't be enough--as someone else pointed out earlier, hardly anyone makes the NBA). But ultimately it will depend more on what he can do in summer league, and what any particular teams may be looking for, than it will on what he did or didn't do in college.

[ice-9]

Dawkins is a better athlete than Curry, true, but the problem is that his athleticism doesn't help his game.

Dawkins doesn't dribble well enough to penetrate, so his ability to dunk the ball doesn't matter much. He's also a bad defender, so his athleticism hasn't helped there either. Dawkins is pretty much just a shooter and athleticism doesn't count for as much when that's your main skill set.

[CDu]

Dawkins is a better athlete than Curry, true, but the problem is that his athleticism doesn't help his game.

Dawkins doesn't dribble well enough to penetrate, so his ability to dunk the ball doesn't matter much. He's also a bad defender, so his athleticism hasn't helped there either. Dawkins is pretty much just a shooter and athleticism doesn't count for as much when that's your main skill set.

This is all true, but I think that those in support of Dawkins would say that the athleticism allows for a higher ceiling than Curry. The problem is that Dawkins' floor is probably lower than Curry's as well.

I think it's fair to say that Dawkins has one attribute (really good shooting) that NBA folks like. He has physical attributes that might allow him to do enough other stuff to carve out a role based around that one skill. But as of yet, he's never shown any of those other attributes to make his one skill a valuable piece on the court (hence he's been beaten out for PT by lesser players throughout his career).

If Dawkins is willing to put in the work on his ballhandling, focus, and (especially) his defense, he could find a place in the NBA. But based on what he's done over his 5 years at Duke (and yes, there are extenuating circumstances for sure) and during his pre-draft workouts (which didn't go well), it doesn't look promising right now. It could happen, but it's all on him to put in a LOT of work to make it happen.

[jimsumner]

Generally speaking, I think you make good points. But I think it's too simple to say Andre would have played ahead of Tyler if he were an NBA prospect. Playing time decisions in college, and maybe especially at Duke, are not based solely on NBA potential, but on how well the players fit into what the college coach and team are trying to do. Tyler's ability to understand what Coach K wanted to see on the court and to channel the toughness and focus Coach K likes often earned him playing time ahead of more physically talented players.

I also disagree, at least a little bit, with your conclusion that "none of that happened." I think all of it happened to some extent--Andre drove to the basket more, rebounded more, played better defense overall than in previous seasons. He didn't magically transform himself into a different player than he had been before, and thus the extent to which he improved these parts of his game were not enough to earn him more playing time against the stiff competition he faced. But he did improve.

I don't disagree that Andre's making an NBA roster is a long shot, and that he will have to work very hard to get that chance (and even if he does work hard, that probably won't be enough--as someone else pointed out earlier, hardly anyone makes the NBA). But ultimately it will depend more on what he can do in summer league, and what any particular teams may be looking for, than it will on what he did or didn't do in college.

Andre Dawkins attempted 189 field goals last season. 152 were three pointers. He went to the foul line 37 times in 33 games. This does not suggest a player who drove to the rim very often.

Doesn't your suggestion that Thornton played ahead of Dawkins because the former better understood the system and played with more toughness and focus rather support my concerns about Dawkins?

Dawkins played 453 minutes last season. That's the smallest total of his career. He played 778 in 2011, when competition on the wing included Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler, Seth Curry and Kyrie Irving, for a portion of the season. Tyler Thornton played 337 minutes that season. Three years later, Thornton had more than doubled his PT, while Dawkins had seen a precipitous drop.

That lack of improvement doesn't bode well for a long and prosperous NBA career. Again, IMO, if Dawkins is going to make the NBA he's going to have to work his derriere off and show improvement in darn near every area of his game.

[superdave]

See the April 18th entry regarding Dawkins workout at the Portsmouth invitational: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Andre-Dawkins-5733/

[MCFinARL]

Andre Dawkins attempted 189 field goals last season. 152 were three pointers. He went to the foul line 37 times in 33 games. This does not suggest a player who drove to the rim very often.

Doesn't your suggestion that Thornton played ahead of Dawkins because the former better understood the system and played with more toughness and focus rather support my concerns about Dawkins?

Dawkins played 453 minutes last season. That's the smallest total of his career. He played 778 in 2011, when competition on the wing included Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler, Seth Curry and Kyrie Irving, for a portion of the season. Tyler Thornton played 337 minutes that season. Three years later, Thornton had more than doubled his PT, while Dawkins had seen a precipitous drop.

That lack of improvement doesn't bode well for a long and prosperous NBA career. Again, IMO, if Dawkins is going to make the NBA he's going to have to work his derriere off and show improvement in darn near every area of his game.

You obviously are more of an expert than I am (as I am not any kind of an expert when it comes to basketball), and I am obviously a Dawkins homer. So I can't objectively disagree that you are probably right about all of this. And I absolutely agree that there is no evidence, at this point, to suggest a "long and prosperous" NBA career for Dawkins; I was more arguing that there is still a chance, if he can perform very well in these summer leagues, that he might get a shot as a role player on a roster at the beginning of the season--not a big chance, but a chance.

The rest of our disagreement may be mostly semantic. Re Andre's improvement, it's just a question of degree--granted, statistics don't demonstrate dramatic improvement in terms of impact, but the eye test did, I think, show some improvement in all of the areas you mentioned, including focus. I won't argue that Dawkins is a great defender, but given the generally weak and disorganized defense of the whole team, I'm not sure we can clearly say he wasn't any better than previously--and occasionally in the early season, IIRC, Coach K explicitly mentioned his defense. (Can't swear to that.) And I won't argue, certainly, that whatever improvement he demonstrated was enough to get him to the NBA. Maybe I am just reacting to the rather negative tone of your initial comment--he needed to improve and he didn't--that seemed to suggest some failure of character, though that may not be what you intended, and it seemed too absolute. I think he did improve, at least a bit--but maybe that and $1.50 will get me (and him) a cup of coffee.

Re Tyler, I agree your argument is a reasonable interpretation and may well be right (although better understanding and fitting into Coach K's system isn't necessarily the same thing as better understanding and fitting into every system). But I also think there is another reasonable interpretation, particularly given the unique circumstances of Andre's career--the issues he dealt with and the fact that he was out of basketball altogether for a year before coming back last season. Under those circumstances, and particularly with the addition of Parker and Hood, who had explicitly been given the reins of the team and who both expected to handle the ball, drive and make jumpers at various times, it's not surprising that Dawkins saw fewer minutes, nor that he had relatively few opportunities to drive to the rim. Who knows what might have happened if he had resolved his issues earlier and played in 2013, or even if he had been able to play last season coming off a year of redshirting in practice rather than away from the team? He might have been a lot better prepared to earn more minutes.

Bottom line, though, as I said upthread, I just hope he plays well enough in the summer leagues to get a good chance to play somewhere; I'm certainly not counting on that being the NBA.

[Kedsy]

That lack of improvement doesn't bode well for a long and prosperous NBA career.

Minutes are doled out for a variety of reasons (especially at Duke). But if you look at tempo-free, minute-independent statistics, Andre Dawkins showed significant (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andre-dawkins-1.html)improvement in his last season over his previous seasons.

His PER his first three years was 13.3, 15.7, and 13.4. His PER his final Duke season was 22.5, a huge improvement over his second best Duke season. Similarly, Andre in 2013-14 had career bests (by a sizable margin over his second best showing) in defensive rebounding percentage, assist percentage, steal percentage, block percentage, usage percentage, turnover percentage, and win shares per 40.

I have no idea whether those improvements will continue or whether they'll be enough to get him to the NBA. And I agree with those who say he has to work his butt off if he wants a chance. But it's both unfair and untrue to say he showed little or no improvement his last season at Duke.

[gwlaw99]

Andre should play for the Sixers this summer. That team has no shooting at all. By the way, Seth is playing for Orlando.

[Furniture]

To me it's all about maturity. Dawkins is very immature and until now it's been very easy for him ( basketball wise). I mean he got into one of the best BB programs in the country. Maybe he didn't have to work very hard to do it. His talent got him to Duke. One day he will mature, wake up, whatever. It could still happen.

[wk2109]

To me it's all about maturity. Dawkins is very immature and until now it's been very easy for him ( basketball wise). I mean he got into one of the best BB programs in the country. Maybe he didn't have to work very hard to do it. His talent got him to Duke. One day he will mature, wake up, whatever. It could still happen.

What is any of this based on?

[GGLC]

To me it's all about maturity. Dawkins is very immature and until now it's been very easy for him ( basketball wise). I mean he got into one of the best BB programs in the country. Maybe he didn't have to work very hard to do it. His talent got him to Duke. One day he will mature, wake up, whatever. It could still happen.

I disagree pretty strongly with the sentiments expressed here. I think it shows a heck of a lot of maturity to be able to come back to basketball at all and accept the role he had last season after what he's been through in his college career.

[Furniture]

I'll try and qualify my comments. Maybe I should have said "on court maturity' or missing ingredient or something but anyway, I absolutely do beleive that Dawkins has the talent to be like a Ray Allen in the NBA. I hope he can somehow make it. I know I'll always be supporting and looking out for him.

[SupaDave]

Wouldn't height, weight and strength be tangibles? You can measure those. Curry, IMO, has a big edge on Dawkins in true intangibles, basketball IQ, work ethic, competiveness. Phil Henderson, Kevin Strickland, Thomas Hill and Jeff Capel were athletic players in the 6-4, 6-5 range. All were effective 3-point shooters at Duke and all were substantially better than Dawkins in college. And not one ever played a second in the NBA. Tommy Amaker, Chris Carrawell, Jon Scheyer. All NBA no-shows.

For all of his alleged height, weight and strength advantages, Dawkins was never more than a role player at Duke, usually off the bench. On a team crying out for veteran leadership and production, Duke's fifth-year senior never could leverage those advantages into a starting role.

If Andre Dawkins was an NBA prospect, don't you think he should have played ahead of Tyler Thornton?

The narrative from Duke on Dawkins coming into the season was that his off-season workouts had been concentrated on improving his liabilities. He was going to get to the rim off the bounce, get tough rebounds in traffic, engage defensively.

None of that happened.

I don't mean to minimize the personal tragedy he endured. But the NBA is a business and, Isaiah Austin notwithstanding, there's not a lot of sentiment in the NBA. By NBA standards, he's a small wing guard with average athleticism. Dawkins has work to do get the next level, a lot of work to do. I hope he makes it. But it is not going to be easy.


After Lance and Shavlik (and even Nolan, J-Dub, and Jon) you would think that folks would give him a shot...


I'm not sure I see the connection between Dawkins and the 2011 ACC Player of the Year. Why would the fact that a consensus first-team All-American couldn't last more than two years in the NBA (hopefully that will change) be a good sign for a player who never averaged even nine ppg in college?

Lance Thomas might be a useful analog. Thomas was willing to woodshed in the NBDL, work on his game, persevere and improve. And he had a shot in the league but couldn't leverage that into a long-term career. Note that Thomas ended his college career starting on an NCAA title team. Unlike Dawkins.

Can Dawkins show the same work ethic and ability to improve? I hope this doesn't come across as harsh, but right now he's an undersized two who can't defend, pass, dribble or rebound at anything approaching an NBA level. Being an occasionally transcendent 3-point shooter is nice and all but that couldn't keep Seth Curry in the NBA last season and Curry was a much better college player than was Dawkins.

So, he's got a lot of work to do. A lot.


Sure he does Jim but at the same time he's got a few intangibles that Curry didn't have in his favor such as height, weight, and strength. For Dre it's all about landing with the right team. The Lakers would have given him the ball every possession last season. If he works for it, and he just may then he could tap levels of his game we haven't seen bc sometimes the NBA just does that for some players.

The NBA doesn't care about accolades when they are staffing their teams for the future.and for the record, Dre is a national champion and in many people's eyes around here an MVP. He's hasn't shown JJ type resilience yet but then again he came back to high level college basketball after a year off even though there were few chances to be featured - and he got his for the most part.

In the NBA - you got 24 seconds. Not a whole lot of defensive sets go down in that time. With Dre's quick release and a good showing this summer and I think we see Dre on a squad. (for the record, I was right about Lance too when no one gave him a shot). In the NBA, you gotta be ready, Dre is like Carmelo Anthony coming off the bench (now I'm a tad bit carried away here but you get it)...


Hopefully the summer league experience will give him some exposure that will attract some solid international opportunities if an NBA/NBDL opportunity doesn't pan out.

Re Henderson's earlier post--obviously, I don't know the quality of Andre's representation. But Andre is smart, and he has navigated through some tough times. I would be very surprised if he could be sold a bill of goods by a dishonest or incompetent agent. I'm sure he wants to play in the NBA, but I am also pretty confident that if that isn't going to happen, he will be realistic enough to find another opportunity.


OK, first of all, I'm simply suggesting that Andre's shooting is good enough to get him on an NBA roster (something Salim Stoudamire achieved for three seasons). So I do think his shooting percentages relative to good NBA shooters are relevant.

Second, your list above is misleading. For example, of the eight guys on your list who had better eFG% than Andre's .614, four of them didn't take a thee-pointer all season and two others took less than 25 threes in the season -- those six players are clearly irrelevant to this discussion. The remaining two guys who had a higher eFG% than Andre played for (very) low majors (Incarnate Word and Robert Morris). Considering the percentage of Andre's shots that came beyond the three-point line, and the fact that he played against high-major competition, his college eFG% and ts% are very impressive.

Finally, there are obviously other factors in play here. Salim Stoudamire may have had trouble getting his shot off in the NBA because he was 6'1" in high heels on a tall day. Seth Curry is 6'1" w/o shoes. He also might have some trouble getting his shot off against NBA SGs. Andre Dawkins is 6'3.5" w/o shoes. Which I understand isn't as tall as someone like Kyle Korver (6'6.25 w/o shoes), but especially considering how much elevation Andre gets on his shot, Andre should be tall enough to get his shot off (unlike SS and SC). Andre also has a decent NBA-caliber vertical and other athletic attributes, and a good-for-his-height 6'8.5 wingspan (by comparison, Seth Curry's wingspan is only 6'4), unlike so many college shooting specialists.

If you're still not seeing it, that's fine. Obviously none of the NBA GMs saw it, either, but I still think Andre will make it to the NBA someday.


So, I agree with those who say the odds are against Dawkins making the league because, hey, it's a tough league, but do you really think inability to hit threes reliably was what was getting him taken out of the game? Statistically, by practically any metric (e.g. PER (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duke/2014.html)) he was one of our better offensive players all of last year on a per-minute basis. The "shot disappearing" stuff is pretty much classic "fooled by randomness" and I doubt competent NBA GMs will be swayed by that.

I hate to say I told you so but...

Dawkins signs with Heat. More to come...

[MCFinARL]

I hate to say I told you so but...

Dawkins signs with Heat. More to come...

Is this something more than the training camp contract he signed a few weeks ago?

[Duvall]

I hate to say I told you so but...

Dawkins signs with Heat. More to come...

Release. (http://www.nba.com/heat/news/heat-signs-andre-dawkins-and-shawn-jones)

It's a training camp deal. Good experience, though.

[MCFinARL]

Release. (http://www.nba.com/heat/news/heat-signs-andre-dawkins-and-shawn-jones)

It's a training camp deal. Good experience, though.

Interesting--I thought I had already seen this reported, but the release is new.

And I agree--it is a good experience, and a chance, even if it is far from a guarantee that Andre will ever see an NBA court during a regular season game.

[SupaDave]

Very interesting timing of the announcement. Sheesh...

Let's see if he can make the final 15.

[dukelifer]

Andre Dawkins attempted 189 field goals last season. 152 were three pointers. He went to the foul line 37 times in 33 games. This does not suggest a player who drove to the rim very often.

Doesn't your suggestion that Thornton played ahead of Dawkins because the former better understood the system and played with more toughness and focus rather support my concerns about Dawkins?

Dawkins played 453 minutes last season. That's the smallest total of his career. He played 778 in 2011, when competition on the wing included Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler, Seth Curry and Kyrie Irving, for a portion of the season. Tyler Thornton played 337 minutes that season. Three years later, Thornton had more than doubled his PT, while Dawkins had seen a precipitous drop.

That lack of improvement doesn't bode well for a long and prosperous NBA career. Again, IMO, if Dawkins is going to make the NBA he's going to have to work his derriere off and show improvement in darn near every area of his game.

Yes- Andre will need to up his game in a very big way. While never a star in college- he had some very big moments and even great 25pt+ games. I think his work ethic kept him from fully realizing his potential as a player. It is very rare for a person to develop those work skills out of nowhere- but not impossible. We shall see. The kid had a beautiful stroke and that is a good place to start building.

[miramar]

The Heat have four rookies left for one roster spot and Andre just might be the guy.

From the Sun-Sentinel in Fort Lauderdale:


The final three cuts likely will come from a group of four rookies: forwards Khem Birch and Shawn Jones, and guards Andre Dawkins and Tyler Johnson.

Dawkins seemingly helped his chances with a pair of 3-pointers in Saturday's 122-119 overtime loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers in Rio de Janeiro.

"He had a terrific summer for us and spent the whole summer in our facility with summer league, and kept on better and better," coach Erik Spoelstra said following Monday's practice at AmericanAirlines Arena of the undrafted guard out of Duke. "It's probably the best shape he's been in in a long time. He's a smart kid. He picks up things on how to play off of people and stay within his own lane. And he has a great shooting stroke."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-reggie-williams-s101314-story.html

[Kedsy]

The Heat have four rookies left for one roster spot and Andre just might be the guy.

From the Sun-Sentinel in Fort Lauderdale:


The final three cuts likely will come from a group of four rookies: forwards Khem Birch and Shawn Jones, and guards Andre Dawkins and Tyler Johnson.

Dawkins seemingly helped his chances with a pair of 3-pointers in Saturday's 122-119 overtime loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers in Rio de Janeiro.

"He had a terrific summer for us and spent the whole summer in our facility with summer league, and kept on better and better," coach Erik Spoelstra said following Monday's practice at AmericanAirlines Arena of the undrafted guard out of Duke. "It's probably the best shape he's been in in a long time. He's a smart kid. He picks up things on how to play off of people and stay within his own lane. And he has a great shooting stroke."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-reggie-williams-s101314-story.html

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[nmduke2001]

The beat writer for the Sentinel predicts Andre makes the team....

"Heat still need to cut 3. Early prediction: Shawn Jones, Khem Birch and Tyler Johnson (with Andre Dawkins kept because of 3-point shooting).

— Ira Winderman (@IraHeatBeat) October 13, 2014"

[Duvall]

The Heat have four rookies left for one roster spot and Andre just might be the guy.

If Dawkins makes an NBA roster, even briefly, how close are we to changing the narrative around the 2010 Duke team from "how did Mike Krzyzewski win a championship with that team" to "how did that team lose five games"?

[CDu]

If Dawkins makes an NBA roster, even briefly, how close are we to changing the narrative around the 2010 Duke team from "how did Mike Krzyzewski win a championship with that team" to "how did that team lose five games"?

It certainly is an interesting question. Of course, it's important to note that (if Dawkins does make the team) 3 of the 7 NBAers on that team were freshmen, and 2 of those 3 were REALLY not ready yet. And of the 4 non-freshman NBAers, 2 were only fringe NBA guys (Smith and Thomas) and a third (Miles Plumlee) was a very late bloomer.

If we were talking about the upperclassmen versions of Kelly, the Plumlees, and Dawkins to go along with upperclassmen versions of Singler/Scheyer/Smith/Thomas/Zoubek, then I'd agree. That group should absolutely not have lost 5 games. But so many of those guys were very different players as they progressed than they were as freshmen/sophomores.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

If Dawkins makes an NBA roster, even briefly, how close are we to changing the narrative around the 2010 Duke team from "how did Mike Krzyzewski win a championship with that team" to "how did that team lose five games"?

82-50, never forget.

[diablesseblu]

82-50, never forget.

Amen! One of my most favorites games in 60+ years of being a Duke fan.

[Bob Green]

Keeping my fingers crossed.

As am I! Andre Dawkins on an NBA roster would be sweet.

[UrinalCake]

If Dawkins makes an NBA roster, even briefly, how close are we to changing the narrative around the 2010 Duke team from "how did Mike Krzyzewski win a championship with that team" to "how did that team lose five games"?

Nah, the narrative will change to "why did Coach K keep a future NBA player glued to the bench for four years?

[nmduke2001]

Dre with 16 tonight on only 8 shots.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400583994

[miramar]

Dre with 16 tonight on only 8 shots.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400583994

The Spurs were playing a lot of the B team because of injuries, but Andre did well.

At this point he will either make the team or will be one of the four Heat players who will be sent to the Sioux Falls Skyforce in the D-League, but I think he has made a very positive impression. Needless to say, I hope he stays in South Beach with an NBA contract, but no matter what it's good to see Andre bounce back. The fifth year obviously helped a lot.

[JasonEvans]

Dre with 16 tonight on only 8 shots.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400583994

Worth noting that one of Dre's main competitors for the last spot on the Heat, SG Tyler Johnson, scored 17 points in the game. Johnson scored his 17 in 36 minutes and needed 13 shots to get there while Dre only played 27 minutes and took just 8 shots. Still, Johnson has to feel good about the impression he left from that game. The other two guys competing for the last spot, Khem Birch and Shawne Jones, each played 30+ minutes but combined for just 7 total points, though Birch did have a team leading 13 rebounds.

-Jason "go Dre!!" Evans

[Billy Dat]

Worth noting that one of Dre's main competitors for the last spot on the Heat, SG Tyler Johnson, scored 17 points in the game. Johnson scored his 17 in 36 minutes and needed 13 shots to get there while Dre only played 27 minutes and took just 8 shots. Still, Johnson has to feel good about the impression he left from that game. The other two guys competing for the last spot, Khem Birch and Shawne Jones, each played 30+ minutes but combined for just 7 total points, though Birch did have a team leading 13 rebounds.

-Jason "go Dre!!" Evans

It is truly a sign of age, but I am amazed how quickly players go from being highly sought recruiting targets to frantically trying to stay out of the NBA preseason meat grinder. Upon seeing Birch's name, my first thought was "hmm, where did he wind up going to college?"

Go Dre Go!

[JasonEvans]

It is truly a sign of age, but I am amazed how quickly players go from being highly sought recruiting targets to frantically trying to stay out of the NBA preseason meat grinder. Upon seeing Birch's name, my first thought was "hmm, where did he wind up going to college?"

Birch was RSCI's #11 player in the 2011 class, (http://statsheet.com/bhsb/recruiting_class/2011)ranked right next to Cody Zeller and PJ Hairston. He went to Pitt and then quickly transferred midway through his freshman season to UNLV. He never quite developed as expected at UNLV and his decision to declare for the 2014 draft was a bit of a head-scratcher. He was undrafted in the 2014 draft.

I find it fun, some times, to look at old RSCI rankings to see how guys have panned out from high school. Generally, the top 5-10 do end up in the NBA, probably at about a 75% or better clip. But, once you hit double digits, it gets to be almost random.

-Jason "Dre would have been a top 10 recruit, but he came to Duke a year early and by moving into the older class was only ranked in about the top 40s or so" Evans

[Billy Dat]

I find it fun, some times, to look at old RSCI rankings to see how guys have panned out from high school. Generally, the top 5-10 do end up in the NBA, probably at about a 75% or better clip. But, once you hit double digits, it gets to be almost random.

That makes sense. It would be interesting to do the same analysis on the major D1 year end All American vs RSCI rankings, because a lot of times these one-and-done phenoms don't make AA teams for various reasons. Maybe someone has already done it, but it would be interesting to examine the one-and-done era - we're about 10 years in, right - to see if there are any patterns with RSCI rankings, mix of years of kids in the rotation, end-of-year-All Americans, and Final Fours achieved. It feels like Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and UConn would be the top based on the number of Final Fours and Titles over the past 10 years, and the past 5 years would probably be even more instructive as that's when the Calipari era has really evolved.

[duke09hms]

Andre highlights: 16 pts, 2 stls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-liBR6xxtjw

[mattman91]

Andre highlights: 16 pts, 2 stls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-liBR6xxtjw

Way to go, Andre!

The Hornets could totally use him if it doesn't work out in MIA.

[moonpie23]

so totally awesome to see him get his shot to make it....


GO ANDRE!!!!!!!!!

[miramar]

It was kind of a crazy game considering how many were out with injuries, including McRoberts, but I was impressed with how comfortable Andre looked out there and how he is no longer just a spot up shooter. I know that he was working on putting the ball on the floor while he was out for a year, but he seems to be showing these skills more with the Heat than he did with Duke. I guess he just had to keep developing as a player, and ask Coach K says, Every horse runs his own race.

[miramar]

The Heat cut three today, and according to the Sun Sentinel, "With Thursday's decisions, the Heat's final cut could come down to guard Andre Dawkins or forward Khem Birch."

Final cuts are Monday by 5:00 PM.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-tyler-johnson-s102314-story.html

[g-money]

Man, I am super psyched and hopeful for Andre! If he makes an NBA roster it will be an incredible story.

Coach K is a personal hero of mine and is well on his way to becoming the GOAT. But I maintain that the lack of PT for Andre this past year was one of his worst personnel decisions as a coach. To me it seemed like a classic example of how a coach's quick hook can lead to tentative play.

(That said, I must qualify the above statement by admitting that I have no idea how Andre did in practices last year. But during the games at least, the attitude he displayed sure seemed terrific, and the per-minute stats indicate that he was one of our most effective players.)

The only other Duke player of the past 20 years whose pine time made me scratch my head like this was Marty Pocius.

My $0.02.

[subzero02]

I am really pulling for Andre. I remember watching his poor performance in the State Farm College Slam Dunk and 3-point contest and thinking that might be the last time I'd see him play. He's come a long way since March.

[MCFinARL]

The Heat cut three today, and according to the Sun Sentinel, "With Thursday's decisions, the Heat's final cut could come down to guard Andre Dawkins or forward Khem Birch."

Final cuts are Monday by 5:00 PM.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-tyler-johnson-s102314-story.html

So it sounds like it may come down to which role the Heat want to fill more--hope it's sharpshooter. Good luck to Andre!


Man, I am super psyched and hopeful for Andre! If he makes an NBA roster it will be an incredible story.

Coach K is a personal hero of mine and is well on his way to becoming the GOAT. But I maintain that the lack of PT for Andre this past year was one of his worst personnel decisions as a coach. To me it seemed like a classic example of how a coach's quick hook can lead to tentative play.

(That said, I must qualify the above statement by admitting that I have no idea how Andre did in practices last year. But during the games at least, the attitude he displayed sure seemed terrific, and the per-minute stats indicate that he was one of our most effective players.)

The only other Duke player of the past 20 years whose pine time made me scratch my head like this was Marty Pocius.

My $0.02.

Well, we probably won't accomplish much by opening this debate again, but I think one can agree, and I do, that it is likely that the allocation of minutes to Andre, not just last year, but in 2011-12 as well, was not good for Andre's game for the reasons you state, while still allowing that it might have been the best choice for the team--that is the part that we can't really know. Would a more effective, more confident Andre have produced better team play overall than the players who got the minutes he would have gotten? It's pretty easy to think so if you isolate particular games that support the argument but more complicated, and less clear, over the course of a whole season.

It's too bad that the timing was what it was. It was great to see Andre come back, and wonderful to see what a great attitude he had. But coming back into the Parker-Hood team, with so many new parts and such an emphasis on those two players, might not have been the ideal situation for giving Andre more room to play.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Listening to sports radio here in South Florida today the debate is about what the Heat need more of, big men or a Three Point threat. Seems the majority of callers and the radio personalities think shooting is the better option off the bench. This is the Zazlow and Joy show on 104.3 The Ticket. Needless to say Im a fan of shooting off the bench and would prefer that Andre is given the last spot. However as someone mentioned in the Dukies in the NBA Thread, the Heat dont have to keep either and could cut both of them. With injuries and the age of some of the stars I would assume that they keep all 15 players. Napier, Ennis, and Andre could turn into a good 1-3 option for the Heat down the road. James Ennis is spectacularly athletic and Napier has been showing signs of being capable of running the team. Only question is can Andre develop into a consistent 3 point threat. I think he can and think he will off the bench. Tonight is the Biggest game of his life and I cant wait to watch. Only problem is if Spo is going to treat it like a regular season game or if hes going to use it as a final try out... Hopefully a mixture of both.

[nmduke2001]

Dre had 9 points in 12 minutes on 5 shots. His +- was -7 though. Dre's biggest competition for a spot, Birch was scoreless in 18 minutes but he did grab 6 boards.

[MCFinARL]

Dre had 9 points in 12 minutes on 5 shots. His +- was -7 though. Dre's biggest competition for a spot, Birch was scoreless in 18 minutes but he did grab 6 boards.

6 boards and, apparently, 5 fouls, which is a fair number for 18 minutes. The -7 is interesting because, in his previous games, Dre has always had a plus number, for whatever reason. Of course +/- is affected by a lot of stuff that has little or nothing to do with individual players. It would be more helpful if we knew whether some of those points were scored by someone Andre was guarding--but I certainly don't have the patience to figure that out.

If that is the choice--Birch or Dawkins--it sounds like it may come down to whether they are more interested in a rebounder or a shooter off the bench.

[Dukehky]

Dre made the heat

[JasonEvans]

Here is the story (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-andre-dawkins-s102514-story.html) on Dre making the Heat.


The release of Birch leaves Andre Dawkins in the Heat's final 15. The undrafted rookie guard out of Duke impressed the Heat in both summer league and training camp with his 3-point stroke.

In advance of Saturday's move, Dawkins said, "Obviously, I can shoot the ball well. I might have exceeded expectations in terms of shooting the ball. I still got to get better at other things."

Dawkins is one of three rookies left after the cut to 15, joined by 2014 first-round pick Shabazz Napier and 2013 second-round pick James Ennis.

-Jason "huge congrats to Andre!" Evans

[miramar]

Andre deserves all the credit in the world, but Coach K gets the assist for having him sit out for a year. Remember how some people wondered if Andre would play again? Apparently so.

The Heat now have three Dukies and a relatively young team, so even if they are no longer championship contenders they will be interesting to watch.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Andre deserves all the credit in the world, but Coach K gets the assist for having him sit out for a year. Remember how some people wondered if Andre would play again? Apparently so.

The Heat now have three Dukies and a relatively young team, so even if they are no longer championship contenders they will be interesting to watch.

He should fill that James Jones role of being the best shooter on the team, but who can typically seen on the bench dressed in a suit because the rest of his game is deficient.

I hope I'm wrong. It will be nice to be seen how the team looks once McRoberts is in the mix. They're pretty thin, but Wade had a pretty solid preseason, and hopefully Napier and Ennis will continue to improve and round out the team with a little youth and spark off the bench. Napier, for what it's worth, probably only needs to be decent to crack the starting lineup by the end of the year. I like Norris Cole, but he's not a starting caliber PG.

[Bob Green]

Dre made the heat

Fantastic news!!! Congratulations to Andre Dawkins on making an NBA roster.

[OldPhiKap]

Congratulations, Dre!

[moonpie23]

way to go, dre!!!!!!!!

[Troublemaker]

Awesome! Congrats to Dre!

[weezie]

Super cool Dre! You are the cutest guy on that team by far! :cool:

[miramar]

He should fill that James Jones role of being the best shooter on the team, but who can typically seen on the bench dressed in a suit because the rest of his game is deficient.

Only 13 guys can suit up for games, so Andre will definitely start the season in street clothes. As you have noted, point guard is a weak spot for the Heat, but considering that they are starting the season with three of them (Chalmer, Cole, and Napier), one of them may be gone by December. And with the inevitable injuries, Andre could be suiting up at some point this season.

No matter what, during summer league it seemed that the Heat's D-League affiliate was a bit of a stretch for Andre, so even in street clothes he has done very well for himself.

[Kedsy]

Hurray!!!!! Really happy about this.

[ricks68]

Makes my day plus. Congrats to Dre. Wonderful young man.:)

ricks

[Des Esseintes]

Andre deserves all the credit in the world, but Coach K gets the assist for having him sit out for a year. Remember how some people wondered if Andre would play again? Apparently so.

The Heat now have three Dukies and a relatively young team, so even if they are no longer championship contenders they will be interesting to watch.

I have all the respect in the world for K, but I don't think he gets much of an assist on Andre. Rarely have I thought his handling of a player was questionable, but in this case such a conclusion was hard to escape. Immense kudos to Andre for playing his way into the NBA by a highly difficult route.

[Inonehand]

I have all the respect in the world for K, but I don't think he gets much of an assist on Andre. Rarely have I thought his handling of a player was questionable, but in this case such a conclusion was hard to escape. Immense kudos to Andre for playing his way into the NBA by a highly difficult route.

Couldn't disagree more...but for a different reason. I question K's handling of players all the time, because, well...I'm an irrational fan. I also believe he was mishandled as a player. But, K and his staff overwhelming deserve credit for helping to build the man that Dre has become which has allowed him to get this far. Dre was treated with compassion, empathy and respect during his darkest of days and drawn out of a self that could have been paralyzing for him. That Dre has made an NBA team is in large part due to K...even though he didn't play him enough. :)

[MCFinARL]

So who would have predicted a couple of years ago that Andre Dawkins would be on an NBA opening day roster and John Michael McAdoo would not? Don't all raise your hands at once.

Seriously, this is wonderful news.

[Indoor66]

So who would have predicted a couple of years ago that Andre Dawkins would be on an NBA opening day roster and John Michael McAdoo would not? Don't all raise your hands at once.

Seriously, this is wonderful news.

All that may be true, but Wojo never could develop big men? :confused: :rolleyes: :cool:

[MCFinARL]

All that may be true, but Wojo never could develop big men? :confused: :rolleyes: :cool:

Um, yeah. It may take Henry Ellenson to dispel that notion once and for all.

[Clay Feet POF]

Well Deserved! Many Happy Endings

[sagegrouse]

Can't make the Duke starting lineup but plays in the NBA? Holy Swen Nader!!!

[GGLC]

I have all the respect in the world for K, but I don't think he gets much of an assist on Andre. Rarely have I thought his handling of a player was questionable, but in this case such a conclusion was hard to escape. Immense kudos to Andre for playing his way into the NBA by a highly difficult route.

Can't spork you, but couldn't agree with this more.

[-bdbd]

I just couldn't be happier for him. Great kid. Good things DO happen to good people, see??!!

Here's hoping he sticks there for a long, long time.

:D

[jimsumner]

Congrats. I confess I thought he would need a stint in the NBDL first.

And I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the concept that Andre Dawkins is an NBA player and Nolan Smith isn't.

[cspan37421]

Congrats. I confess I thought he would need a stint in the NBDL first.

And I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the concept that Andre Dawkins is an NBA player and Nolan Smith isn't.

I must ask - how did you ever move on from trying to wrap your arms around the concept that Martin Nessley played in the NBA but Tommy Amaker did not? [I'm still flummoxed]

Congrats, Andre!

[OldSchool]

Congratulations Andre!

I thought a natural fit for Dre in the NBA would be a team with strong point guard play and smart team defense, where he could play a role like Danny Green does for the Spurs (if Dre can hold up his end on defense), such as San Antonio or Chicago with a healthy Rose. It'll be interesting to see what kind of team identity Miami develops this year.

[MChambers]

Can't make the Duke starting lineup but plays in the NBA? Holy Swen Nader!!!
I was just mentioning Sven Nater (not related to Ralph) to my son.

And also of course Maggette.

[freshmanjs]

Well Deserved! Many Happy Endings

that should not be an issue for an NBA guy...

[jimsumner]

I was just mentioning Sven Nater (not related to Ralph) to my son.

And also of course Maggette.

And Mark Eaton. And Marvin Williams was a sixth man.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Congrats. I confess I thought he would need a stint in the NBDL first.

And I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the concept that Andre Dawkins is an NBA player and Nolan Smith isn't.

It's become kind of a conventional wisdom that to be a role player in the NBA you have to at least do one thing great. I would say Nolan Smith is a better all-around basketball player than Andre Dawkins, but there's no one thing that he's great at. Dawkins is a great shooter, and most teams have room for one of those.

[jimsumner]

It's become kind of a conventional wisdom that to be a role player in the NBA you have to at least do one thing great. I would say Nolan Smith is a better all-around basketball player than Andre Dawkins, but there's no one thing that he's great at. Dawkins is a great shooter, and most teams have room for one of those.

Or be really, really big, e.g. Marty Nessley, Matt Wenstrom, Kevin Salvadori and Ivano Newbill, all of whom managed to cash some NBA checks.

Nolan? I really thought he would be another Jason Terry, an under-sized combo guard who got by with quicks and skills.

[g-money]

Man, I am super psyched and hopeful for Andre! If he makes an NBA roster it will be an incredible story.

Coach K is a personal hero of mine and is well on his way to becoming the GOAT. But I maintain that the lack of PT for Andre this past year was one of his worst personnel decisions as a coach. To me it seemed like a classic example of how a coach's quick hook can lead to tentative play.

(That said, I must qualify the above statement by admitting that I have no idea how Andre did in practices last year. But during the games at least, the attitude he displayed sure seemed terrific, and the per-minute stats indicate that he was one of our most effective players.)

The only other Duke player of the past 20 years whose pine time made me scratch my head like this was Marty Pocius.

My $0.02.

I think my post may have struck a nerve. I received the following 'demerit' through the DBR website:

"maybe he would have played if he ever learned defense... good thing thats usually optional in the nba"

To which I have two responses:
1) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but comments like this should be posted to the entire community. Gotta love the internet.
2) Defense is not optional in the NBA, especially on a team like the Heat. Andre will admittedly have a steep learning curve, but there's nothing physically preventing him from becoming a good defender. He has good size and strength for his position. He needs to work on quickness.

Congrats Andre!! Duke Nation is pulling for you.

[ice-9]

I'm surprised that Dawkins made an NBA team, but not THAT surprised. I would've been more surprised if say...Czyz or Pocius made it.

I suspect the Heat will use Dawkins in exactly the same way Duke used Dawkins, maybe even more specialized: instant 3-point offense. Like if the Heat is down 2 and there are 8 seconds left on the clock. Or it's the last possession before half-time. The kind of the situation where offense is needed and defense is not. If the Heat makes the shot in the 8 seconds scenario and goes up 1, I can see them taking a timeout and subbing Dre for a defensive minded player.

Also, a rookie contract gives Dawkins time to further develop his game. Some players simply need more time than others, and maybe for Dre he needs more than just college. If he doesn't work out long-term, it's no big deal for Miami. It was either a guy who can shoot one or two threes when they really need it, or a rookie big man who doesn't have a sufficiently specialized skill to see time on the floor.

[Furniture]

I think my post may have struck a nerve. I received the following 'demerit' through the DBR website:

"maybe he would have played if he ever learned defense... good thing thats usually optional in the nba"

To which I have two responses:
1) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but comments like this should be posted to the entire community. Gotta love the internet.
2) Defense is not optional in the NBA, especially on a team like the Heat. Andre will admittedly have a steep learning curve, but there's nothing physically preventing him from becoming a good defender. He has good size and strength for his position. He needs to work on quickness.
God bless America!

Congrats Andre!! Duke Nation is pulling for you.

I have had one or two demerits here some deservidly and some, at least what I have felt, not. I have also read some totally disagreeable posts. I love Duke basketball and I love reading this forum but at the same time it's sometimes a very unwelcoming forum where the conversations take place between a select few like some private club and not a welcoming place for all Duke fans...

[HK Dukie]

Congrats to my K Academy Coach Dre!! Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Also, he was lights out over those few days playing with Kyrie, Austin, MP1, MP2 etc. He truly looked like he belonged there. I'm glad someone is giving him a chance.

Everyone should check out the goduke.com pre-countdown practice interview with Coach K. It's about 20 minutes long and he goes over a lot of the dynamics of the team. He mentioned Matt Jones could be a starter just based on how well he plays with the other top guys. Winslow could be our 2nd big sometimes. And in particular in relation to Dawkins making the Heat, he said that most NBA players make the NBA because they are specialists. So few are stars. If you can do one thing really well you can find a place. Now while he was trying to apply that logic to the current team and say how they needed to adjust to Ja, the same logic can be applied to Dawkins. He made the Heat because he does one thing really well (shoot with a quick release), he can learn the rest of what he needs to know to cover weaknesses.

The comparison to Nolan is a really interesting one. Nolan is probably the better basketball player even today. But he doesn't do one thing better than the average NBA player. Dawkins does one thing at potentially an elite level and can complement the rest of a team. This is fascinating to me because it gets to how you build teams even in the workforce. The most qualified or smartest candidate doesn't always get the job and shouldn't always get it. Perhaps that one person who can uniquely fill a particular role is the best.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He made the Heat because he does one thing really well (shoot with a quick release), he can learn the rest of what he needs to know to cover weaknesses

You're right - Dawkins did make the Heat because of his shooting. But he is arguably one of the most one dimensional players in the NBA. He can't score in other ways, he can't distribute, and he can't defend. I am happy for Dawkins, but it's gonna be an uphill battle to remain in the NBA. Dawkins doesn't fit the coveted "3-and-D" criteria, and he's a little undersized to be a Kyle Korver/Mike Miller type player. I see Dawkins as a poor-man's Jason Kapono, although Jason Kapono has one of the best 3pt % figures in NBA history.

I hope Dawkins makes it, but it's gonna be really, really tough.

[CDu]

Congrats. I confess I thought he would need a stint in the NBDL first.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dawkins does do a stint in the NBDL first. Being the (presumed) 15th man on the roster doesn't mean he's going to suit up for the Heat much, if at all, this year. So Miami may very well send him down to get him regular playing time to help his development.


And I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the concept that Andre Dawkins is an NBA player and Nolan Smith isn't.

If you're not a star player, you are better suited being REALLY good at one skill. And if shooting is your one skill, that's a big plus. Also, it's tougher to make the NBA as a PG because there are sooooooo many good ones.


I suspect the Heat will use Dawkins in exactly the same way Duke used Dawkins, maybe even more specialized: instant 3-point offense. Like if the Heat is down 2 and there are 8 seconds left on the clock. Or it's the last possession before half-time. The kind of the situation where offense is needed and defense is not. If the Heat makes the shot in the 8 seconds scenario and goes up 1, I can see them taking a timeout and subbing Dre for a defensive minded player.

Actually, I suspect he'll not be dressed for most of the games. As I mentioned above, I wouldn't be shocked if he's sent to the NBDL for now. If he's not among the top-13 players on the roster, he won't dress (you can only dress 13 of your 15 players).

If he eventually makes the active roster, I agree that his role might be as you've described. But I'd be fairly surprised if he's on the active roster much (barring injuries).


Also, a rookie contract gives Dawkins time to further develop his game. Some players simply need more time than others, and maybe for Dre he needs more than just college. If he doesn't work out long-term, it's no big deal for Miami. It was either a guy who can shoot one or two threes when they really need it, or a rookie big man who doesn't have a sufficiently specialized skill to see time on the floor.

Are we sure he has a rookie contract or does he have a one-year deal? He wasn't drafted, so the Heat could sign him to just about any type of minimum (or even non-guaranteed) contract that they want. I'd be shocked if he got a multi-year rookie deal.

[CDu]

You're right - Dawkins did make the Heat because of his shooting. But he is arguably one of the most one dimensional players in the NBA. He can't score in other ways, he can't distribute, and he can't defend. I am happy for Dawkins, but it's gonna be an uphill battle to remain in the NBA. Dawkins doesn't fit the coveted "3-and-D" criteria, and he's a little undersized to be a Kyle Korver/Mike Miller type player. I see Dawkins as a poor-man's Jason Kapono, although Jason Kapono has one of the best 3pt % figures in NBA history.

I hope Dawkins makes it, but it's gonna be really, really tough.

He also doesn't fit the Jason Kapono mold, as Kapono was 6'7" or 6'8" like Korver and Miller.

Definitely excited for Dawkins, but I agree that he still has a tough road to making it. Hopefully he improves greatly on the defensive end. If he does so, he could stick with his shooting touch. But if he can't defend, it'll be hard to have him on the floor.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He also doesn't fit the Jason Kapono mold, as Kapono was 6'7" or 6'8" like Korver and Miller.

Definitely excited for Dawkins, but I agree that he still has a tough road to making it. Hopefully he improves greatly on the defensive end. If he does so, he could stick with his shooting touch. But if he can't defend, it'll be hard to have him on the floor.

Had no idea Kapono was so tall. Is there a good comp for Dawkins?

[CDu]

Had no idea Kapono was so tall. Is there a good comp for Dawkins?

Maybe like a JJ Redick? It's tough, because most of the guys who are 6'3"-6'4" SG are/were also good ball handlers. Even Redick was a much better ball handler than Dawkins.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Maybe like a JJ Redick? It's tough, because most of the guys who are 6'3"-6'4" SG are/were also good ball handlers. Even Redick was a much better ball handler than Dawkins.

But Redick was a good ball handler, a solid defender, and a good passer in college. You can't say any of those for Dawkins. Also, Redick had Stan van Gundy, one of the best coaches in the NBA as a mentor. Dawkins has Spo, who isn't as strong as developing players as the average coach (has Chalmbers improved since he got to the NBA?).

[JasonEvans]

Is there a good comp for Dawkins?

Anthony Morrow. They are both lights-out shooters who don't do much else. Morrow is 6-5, Dawkins is 6-4. I'd love for Dre to have a career like Morrow, who was also an undrafted free agent.

-Jason "Morrow puts the ball on the floor more than Dre and he has longer arms, I think " Evans

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

But Redick was a good ball handler, a solid defender, and a good passer in college. You can't say any of those for Dawkins. Also, Redick had Stan van Gundy, one of the best coaches in the NBA as a mentor. Dawkins has Spo, who isn't as strong as developing players as the average coach (has Chalmbers improved since he got to the NBA?).

As someone who follows the Heat closely I have to disagree with this. I think Chalmers has improved a lot, and I think his new role off the bench as a combo guard will finally show how much this season. The problem with Chalmers has been that the guys around him were so good that any small mistake was compounded and then Lebron would be all over ESPN yelling at him. His new freedom and not having to be scared to make a mistake will pay off big time for him. Also Norris Cole has come out of no where and become a starter and huge factor for the Heat. I think Spo is underated due to the fact that he had the big 3 and the perception is that its easy after that. But the guy is more of a natural teacher of the game. I think that will show this season now that he has some younger talent to develop and show off. Keep in mind the Heat have been heavy in free agency and havent drafted much. The development of Cole, Chalmers, Napier, Ennis, and now Dawkins will be key for the team in the future and I trust that Spo will get it done.

[CDu]

But Redick was a good ball handler, a solid defender, and a good passer in college. You can't say any of those for Dawkins. Also, Redick had Stan van Gundy, one of the best coaches in the NBA as a mentor. Dawkins has Spo, who isn't as strong as developing players as the average coach (has Chalmbers improved since he got to the NBA?).

Yeah, Redick is certainly better than Dawkins pretty much across the board, so he's not a great comp.


Anthony Morrow. They are both lights-out shooters who don't do much else. Morrow is 6-5, Dawkins is 6-4. I'd love for Dre to have a career like Morrow, who was also an undrafted free agent.

-Jason "Morrow puts the ball on the floor more than Dre and he has longer arms, I think " Evans

I can't believe I so quickly forgot Morrow, even though I had mentioned him in (I believe) this very thread. Morrow is a little longer and much skinnier and a better ballhandler, but that's probably the best comp. It's also more or less the best comp in terms of collegiate history as well. But even Morrow had two seasons as a 14-16ppg scorer though, so he was a more accomplished collegiate individual player.

There really isn't a great NBA comp for Dawkins in terms of size, skill set, and college production. But Morrow is almost certainly the closest.

[Des Esseintes]

Yeah, Redick is certainly better than Dawkins pretty much across the board, so he's not a great comp.

I can't believe I so quickly forgot Morrow, even though I had mentioned him in (I believe) this very thread. Morrow is a little longer and much skinnier and a better ballhandler, but that's probably the best comp. It's also more or less the best comp in terms of collegiate history as well. But even Morrow had two seasons as a 14-16ppg scorer though, so he was a more accomplished collegiate individual player.

There really isn't a great NBA comp for Dawkins in terms of size, skill set, and college production. But Morrow is almost certainly the closest.

I agree that Andre has a tough hill to climb, but comps are funny. Almost no one in the NBA has an exact analog. Almost every player in that league of freaks is basically unique. For example, what's another example of the player Jason Kidd was the year Dallas won the title? Excellent three point shooting (which no one would have predicted during his prime), no penetration, defensive liability, preternatural perimeter passer. That's an incredibly weird combination, and I think few people would say that a guard who can barely move but shoots well and swings the ball intelligently and quickly is a great idea to start on a championship team. But he did. He was that good at being a statue who threw terrific passes. Andre may well have a preternatural shooting tool, and a gift so extreme has the potential to outweigh the other minuses to his game.

I would also throw out James Jones as a guy who brings shooting and nothing else. He's taller than Dre, but everyone agrees he is a pylon defensively and worthless at rebounding. You could argue that while his on-court game is lacking, he excels at Befriending LeBrons, and I would agree.

This list (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_advanced.html) is probably where we should be looking to see if Andre can make it: percentage of threes taken to overall field goals. A bunch of stretch PFs and old guards mostly. Guys like Andre are hard to find, but while that indicates his road is very tough, I think it is also an acknowledgement of how rare a shooting tool of his potency exists in a young player. How much more valuable is 33-year-old Roger Mason than Andre right now? Or 32-year-old Francisco Garcia? 208-year-old Derek Fisher? (Jesus, Scotty is a ridiculous coach.) 34-year-old Rasual Butler? Among younger guys, Doron Lamb and Terrence Ross offer very little right now other than threes. I'm sure their teams hope for more, particularly from Ross, but if Andre can convince the Heat he has the potential to develop at least one complementary skill, they may well keep him around a while.

[Richard Berg]

Re: comps, I was thinking of the roster of WG 3-point specialists the Spurs employed during their 2007 championship. I knew Bowen was longer than Dawkins (and a much better defender, obviously), but to my surprise Brent Barry and Michael Finley were also listed at 6'7". Udoka was 6'6".

[Matches]

Congrats. I confess I thought he would need a stint in the NBDL first.

And I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the concept that Andre Dawkins is an NBA player and Nolan Smith isn't.

To be fair, Nolan *did* make it to the NBA. He just didn't stick. Time will tell if Dre will stick. Hopefully he will.

[SupaDave]

So who would have predicted a couple of years ago that Andre Dawkins would be on an NBA opening day roster and John Michael McAdoo would not? Don't all raise your hands at once.

Seriously, this is wonderful news.

I would have...

[MCFinARL]

I would have...

Props to you, SupaDave--a gutsy but accurate call.

[jimsumner]

To be fair, Nolan *did* make it to the NBA. He just didn't stick. Time will tell if Dre will stick. Hopefully he will.

Okay, let me rephrase. Go back to the end of the 2011 season and predict which Duke players will be on an opening-day NBA roster in October 2014. Irving? Duh. Singler? Got it. The Plumlees? There's always a place for athletes. Smith? Of course. He's the freaking ACC Player of the Year. Dawkins and Kelly? Get serious.

As an aside, once Dawkins plays in an NBA game, that will bring to eight the total of players from the 2011 Duke team to have played in the NBA. Add Seth Curry to the above list.

That's the most of any team in Duke history. By contrast, 1978 had four, 1986 had five (including Marty Nessley), 1991 had five and 2001 had five.

It will also give Dawkins more NBA games than the combined total of Tommy Amaker, Kevin Strickland, Billy King, Robert Brickey, Phil Henderson, Billy McCaffrey, Thomas Hill, Chris Collins, Jeff Capel, Chris Carrawell, Nate James and Jon Scheyer.

Go figure.

[Bob Green]

It will also give Dawkins more NBA games than the combined total of Tommy Amaker, Kevin Strickland, Billy King, Robert Brickey, Phil Henderson, Billy McCaffrey, Thomas Hill, Chris Collins, Jeff Capel, Chris Carrawell, Nate James and Jon Scheyer.

Go figure.

Which will prove what we all already know - the college and NBA games are very different.

[CDu]

So who would have predicted a couple of years ago that Andre Dawkins would be on an NBA opening day roster and John Michael McAdoo would not? Don't all raise your hands at once.

Seriously, this is wonderful news.

Well, I certainly would have predicted that Dawkins had a better shot at the NBA than John Michael McAdoo. But compared with James Michael McAdoo? No way.

[Matches]

Okay, let me rephrase. Go back to the end of the 2011 season and predict which Duke players will be on an opening-day NBA roster in October 2014. Irving? Duh. Singler? Got it. The Plumlees? There's always a place for athletes. Smith? Of course. He's the freaking ACC Player of the Year. Dawkins and Kelly? Get serious.



I'd have told you to "get serious" re: Dawkins last week. I'll confess I had absolutely zero belief that Dawkins would ever sniff an NBA roster. (Of course Id've said the same thing about Lance Thomas.) Happy to be wrong.

[jimsumner]

Which will prove what we all already know - the college and NBA games are very different.

But that different? A guy who never averaged more than eight plus points per game in a single college season and who can only do one thing well?

I honestly cannot come up with an analog for Dawkins. Seven-footers are not analogous because the human gene pool just doesn't produce that many seven-footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time. So, a Marty Nessley or a Matt Wenstrom will get a shot. Corey Maggette and Marvin Williams were sixth men but sixth men who scored in double figures for teams oozing talent.

But Dawkins has earned a chance to impress and learn and grow and stick around for awhile. I hope he does it.

[CDu]

But that different? A guy who never averaged more than eight plus points per game in a single college season and who can only do one thing well?

I honestly cannot come up with an analog for Dawkins. Seven-footers are not analogous because the human gene pool just doesn't produce that many seven-footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time. So, a Marty Nessley or a Matt Wenstrom will get a shot. Corey Maggette and Marvin Williams were sixth men but sixth men who scored in double figures for teams oozing talent.

But Dawkins has earned a chance to impress and learn and grow and stick around for awhile. I hope he does it.

To be fair, a big part of the reason that Dawkins never averaged over 8 ppg was because of limited playing time. His per-32 minute career scoring average was over 13 points, and his senior-year per-32 was over 18 points. So had he been given the same playing time as, say, JJ Redick, we might not be debating this.

I think the best comp for Dawkins is Anthony Morrow. Morrow was, like Dawkins, a dead-eye 3pt shooter who stunk at pretty much everything else. He managed to be a starter for two of his four years in school, and in those years he averaged 16ppg and 14ppg. But his other two years were more like Dawkins' career.

Had Dawkins played anywhere other than Duke (where his coach was maniacal about defensive effort and awareness - two things Dawkins stunk at), he might have even been a draft pick. Think of a guy like John Jenkins from Vandy two years ago (great shooter, no defense).

Now, I also don't expect Dawkins to stick in the NBA, for all the reasons he didn't stick in the rotation at Duke. Unless you're an otherworldly shooter/scorer, you simply have to bring more to the table. And Dawkins never developed any more to his game than his 3pt shot in 5 years at Duke. So I have trouble believing he'll make the adjustment at the NBA level. He's getting his shot though, so hopefully he proves me wrong.

[Wander]

And I'm still trying to wrap my arms around the concept that Andre Dawkins is an NBA player and Nolan Smith isn't.

Those 3 inches matter a lot. (Yes, I know, insert your own TWSS joke here)

[Kedsy]

Think of a guy like John Jenkins from Vandy two years ago (great shooter, no defense).

I made the Jenkins comp last season. They're pretty much the same size, and Andre's advanced stats were very similar (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=andre-dawkins&i=1&p1=2-john-jenkins) to Jenkins's (about the only difference was Jenkins got to the line more). Jenkins just played a lot more minutes and was the focus of his team's offense for two years. Whether or not it was best for the team to use him the way Coach K chose to use him, if Andre had been handled differently he could have been a star.

And Jenkins is still in the League. I've been saying for some time that Andre has a shot.

[CDu]

I made the Jenkins comp last season. They're pretty much the same size, and Andre's advanced stats were very similar (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=andre-dawkins&i=1&p1=2-john-jenkins) to Jenkins's (about the only difference was Jenkins got to the line more). Jenkins just played a lot more minutes and was the focus of his team's offense for two years. Whether or not it was best for the team to use him the way Coach K chose to use him, if Andre had been handled differently he could have been a star.

And Jenkins is still in the League. I've been saying for some time that Andre has a shot.

There is one glaring difference between Jenkins (now) and Dawkins. Jenkins was a first round pick. As such, he had his first two years guaranteed. But last year, he played a whopping 158 minutes (and looked terrible in those minutes), and it remains to be seen whether the Hawks will pick up his option for a 4th year.

But regardless, I wouldn't use Jenkins as a comp for the likelihood that Dawkins sticks. If it weren't for the fact that Jenkins' contract this year was guaranteed over a year ago, he would likely already be out of the league.

The NBA is a financially-driven league in many ways, and guaranteed contracts versus non-guaranteed contracts make a BIG difference in a player's likelihood of sticking in the league. Teams are much more likely to give a first-round pick every chance to make it (due to the guaranteed money) as compared to the exact same player who went undrafted.

[Bob Green]

But that different? A guy who never averaged more than eight plus points per game in a single college season and who can only do one thing well?

But Dawkins has earned a chance to impress and learn and grow and stick around for awhile. I hope he does it.

I am as surprised as you are and equally hopeful he makes it.

[MCFinARL]

Well, I certainly would have predicted that Dawkins had a better shot at the NBA than John Michael McAdoo. But compared with James Michael McAdoo? No way.

Oops, John, James, details, details.

[Duke3517]

To me it's all about maturity. Dawkins is very immature and until now it's been very easy for him ( basketball wise). I mean he got into one of the best BB programs in the country. Maybe he didn't have to work very hard to do it. His talent got him to Duke. One day he will mature, wake up, whatever. It could still happen.

I swear I did not write this. Lol.

Very happy for Andre Dawkins! I always rooted for him because of what he went through.

[_Gary]

Those 3 inches matter a lot. (Yes, I know, insert your own TWSS joke here)

I can't quite tell how much you are joking about height, but I'm one that believes a couple of inches can make a HUGE difference in the NBA. Unless you are a freak athlete it hurts you as a guard when you aren't at least 6'3" or so. I know there are exceptions, but it does make a difference. As much as I love Nolan and Andre both, I will not be in the least bit surprised if Andre has a longer run in the NBA than Nolan. Nolan is short for a 2 guard (and he's not a true point, no matter how you slice it). He also didn't have a quick trigger on his jump shots. That's a double-whammy. If you are short (by NBA standards) for your position and you don't have a quick step and quick shot it's hard to stick. Especially if you aren't going to hit a big percentage of the shots you do get off. Andre has Nolan beat on all counts in that regard. He's got a couple of inches on Nolan as best I can tell. He's got better NBA distance on his shots than Nolan ever demonstrated. And he's got a quicker trigger. He's not quicker off the dribble, but his shot is off quicker than Nolan's. All those would be reasons I'd expect Andre to have a better shot in the League over Nolan. But I love them both and wish them both success.

[JPtheGame]

Well now its fairly obvious why Miami was willing to let lebron james walk. It frees up cap room for the max deal dre will be shooting for in 3 years!

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Andre Didn't suit up for tonight's game against the wizards. If he had he probably wouldnt have sniffed any minutes as 4 players went with DNP Coaches decision. Also of Note McBob still out with injury and Loul Deng looked good in his Heat Debut even after going to the locker room briefly with a sprain. HEAT win with Norris Cole and Bosh leading the way.

[MCFinARL]

Andre Didn't suit up for tonight's game against the wizards. If he had he probably wouldnt have sniffed any minutes as 4 players went with DNP Coaches decision. Also of Note McBob still out with injury and Loul Deng looked good in his Heat Debut even after going to the locker room briefly with a sprain. HEAT win with Norris Cole and Bosh leading the way.

Yes, since Andre was the last person to make the team, he may not suit up unless/until there are at least two players out with injuries. But one step at a time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yes, since Andre was the last person to make the team, he may not suit up unless/until there are at least two players out with injuries. But one step at a time.

Well, if D-Wade is gonna be rested for 20+ games, Andre moves up a spot!

[MCFinARL]

Well, if D-Wade is gonna be rested for 20+ games, Andre moves up a spot!

Good point! Fingers crossed.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Dawkins getting his first NBA minutes tonight in mop up duty against the 76ers. I'm not sure he even touched the ball in two minutes of play, but hey, beats wearing a suit...

[DukieInBrasil]

Dawkins has now played in the NBA! Almost as much as Seth Curry has, but with fewer points. Hopefully Andre can rectify that (and that Seth gets a chance to score more NBA points too!).
Anyway, congrats to Andre. I can't comprehend how far he's come and what he's had to do to get to this point, he's a champion!

[Henderson]

He hasn't missed a shot his entire NBA career.

[Edouble]

He hasn't missed a shot his entire NBA career.

Playing in mop up duty, his career has been pointless thus far.

[Henderson]

Playing in mop up duty, his career has been pointless thus far.

Far from it. Andre will always and forever have been an NBA player, regardless of how long he sticks. That's not pointless.

[weezie]

Playing in mop up duty, his career has been pointless thus far.


Ouch. I'm with Hendo. Go Dre!

[Indoor66]

Playing in mop up duty, his career has been pointless thus far.

This is three games into his rookie season! Give me and him a break.

[duke09hms]

Playing in mop up duty, his career has been pointless thus far.

I'm pretty sure he means pointless as "without points" instead of pointless/meaningless.

[mattman91]

Well, he has played more than PJ Hairston...

[MCFinARL]

I'm pretty sure he means pointless as "without points" instead of pointless/meaningless.

Yes--it is a testament to how much the folks on this board love Andre Dawkins that they did not see the joke the OP surely intended.

[BD80]

Yes--it is a testament to how much the folks on this board love Andre Dawkins that they did not see the joke the OP surely intended.

They didn't get the point?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Playing in mop up duty, his career has been pointless thus far.
But he also hasn't missed!

[flyingdutchdevil]

They didn't get the point?

Neither did Andre Dawkins ;)

[CameronBlue]

If this thread is going to become a repository of pointless puns I have scores of groaners. Just put me in coach.

[Edouble]

Yes--it is a testament to how much the folks on this board love Andre Dawkins that they did not see the joke the OP surely intended.

I thought it was a testament to how daft some people are. I though the pun was pretty obvious, especially considering the context... a DBR forum thread. Puns are a tradition around here.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Andre's NBA career is still pointless but at least he took a shot!

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400578342

[MCFinARL]

Andre's NBA career is still pointless but at least he took a shot!

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400578342

So to speak. The puns in this thread just get better and better.

Also, he had the second best +/- on the Heat!

Unfortunately, it was -1 as only one Heat player had a positive +/-. Says more about the limits of +/- as a metric than it does about Andre's impact in his 2 minutes of play....

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

So to speak. The puns in this thread just get better and better.

Also, he had the second best +/- on the Heat!

Unfortunately, it was -1 as only one Heat player had a positive +/-. Says more about the limits of +/- as a metric than it does about Andre's impact in his 2 minutes of play....

I stayed last night in AAA waiting for Andre to Check in, as the crowd thinned and the stampede to get out of there began I sat waiting for Andre. And finally Spo made it happen and I cheered as loudly as I could from sect 326 Row 1 seat 16. People looked back as they walked out to the concourse wondering what greatness must have just happened. Then they just shrugged and walked away while I waited. Finally he gets the ball hesitates a moment and then decides that its now or never, "Andre Lets it Fly!!!!" I stand up hands raised with three fingers held up on both hands....and clank. He bricked it off the back Iron and was never to get the ball again. Oh well I have 38 more games to watch him in person in garbage time.

[jacone21]

I stayed last night in AAA waiting for Andre to Check in, as the crowd thinned and the stampede to get out of there began I sat waiting for Andre. And finally Spo made it happen and I cheered as loudly as I could from sect 326 Row 1 seat 16. People looked back as they walked out to the concourse wondering what greatness must have just happened. Then they just shrugged and walked away while I waited. Finally he gets the ball hesitates a moment and then decides that its now or never, "Andre Lets it Fly!!!!" I stand up hands raised with three fingers held up on both hands....and clank. He bricked it off the back Iron and was never to get the ball again. Oh well I have 38 more games to watch him in person in garbage time.

Bless you for your dedication. That story is sort of a metaphor for all of us who are standing up in section 326 with our arms raised, wishing the best for the young man.

I hope Andre knows that there are a lot of people out there pulling for him.