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View Full Version : A new feather in UNC's hat: stalking w̶o̶m̶e̶n̶ alumni



throatybeard
06-23-2014, 10:17 PM
Mods, please move this thread to OT if you see fit. I have posted it on the EKB because I believe the roots of the behavior I am reporting lie in Carolina fans' animosity that arises from sports, at least primarily.

I hate to say this in polite, well, any company at all, but one of my wife's degrees is from Carolina. Her other degrees are from Berry College and Mississippi State. It was a business decision. In 2000, she needed an MAT (German and ESL), and Carolina offered an accelerated degree program where you could do all the coursework in a calendar year, Summer II-Fall-Spring-Summer I. I think being able to add the ESL cert was also an advantage Carolina offered. We wanted to do it at NC State, but it would take two years, more money, and I think she would have had to pick between German and ESL or do both for a longer time or something. In terms of the market, Carolina offered the more expeditious product (although I detest thinking about higher education in market terms). I was in PhD school and we didn't have hardly any money, and it just made sense at the time. She got a $3000 grant from the philanthropic concern in her home town in Georgia, gritted her teeth, and got it done in admirable fashion. She took care to disguise the fact that her spouse was from Duke/State, so that they wouldn't be nasty to her.

I have great respect for Carolina as a research university, this scandal with their athletes notwithstanding, as I've made clear before. But the culture of their fanbase and their alumni is one of sociopathic aggression, as everyone on this board knows, especially those who suffer North Carolina residency.

We have never given their alumni association any money. We have never given their annual fund any money. We have never purchased an alumni directory from them. We have never given them anything that wasn't directly tied to my wife's degree there. Tuition, fees, extortionary parking permit, that's it. I do have the misfortune of having taken two Linguistics courses over there through the consortium (although I loved my Syntax professor, who has since moved back to his native Germany). The Carolina kids ostracized us as soon as they knew we were from Duke or State. In 1992, I happened to be in Chapel Hill, when I was greeted by a vendor who had a t-shirt with simian-looking drawings of Brian Davis, Thomas Hill, and Grant Hill (and the main white guys on the team, to be fair) with the subtitle "Duke's National Chimps." I didn't buy the t-shirt, obviously, but I learned about Carolina.

Today my wife and I got a mail solicitation from them even though we have never given them a change of address. We moved house every summer from 2004 through 2008, and then again last summer to our current dwelling, in which I plan to spend the rest of my natural life. Put as plainly as possible, they are stalking my wife, through three residences in Mississippi and two in Saint Louis. We have never given them a change of address. I am considering sending a strongly-worded letter with as little profanity as I can manage, cc:ed to both their alumni office and their development office, telling them to remove us from their mailing lists. A fellow 1998 Duke alumna tells me that the USPS will allow an organization (i.e, Carolina) to pay USPS to give up your new address. That isn't the problem this time, because our house we bought in 2013 is a hundred paces away from our old condo, which we haven't sold, so we can still take the mail there off the renters' hands. We've never put in a forward request with the post office. There are no reasonable means by which Carolina should know our new address.

This is such a violation--you can move six states away from North Carolina and still be hounded by these aggressors.

It's bigger than the school itself. In North Carolina, the bedrock of the culture in the state is that UNC fans and alumni believe that they are entitled to create a pervasive atmosphere of abuse towards anyone associated with Duke, and to a lesser extent, State and Wake Forest. It's bigger than barbecue. In 1999, after Duke's 81-61 win at the Dean Dome, a crowd of over 100 people stood and cheered outside the Hinton James dormitory while three Carolina guys beat a Duke student. Hundreds of Duke employees are Carolina fans. They harass us on our own campus. They have vandalized our campus. After they beat us in 1998 over there, there was all kinds of graffiti on our own campus.

They spell the name of our school as a lower-case Southern synonym for human feces. They come over to start crap when the kids are camping out for games. And don't even think about attending an Duke game in the NCAAT stationed in North Carolina (see 2005).

I wore Duke and NC State gear (sometimes mixed) during my six years at NC State, and you know how many people tried to start crap with me in Raleigh? One, exactly one in six years. And he was a familiar I didn't like much, not a stranger. Wouldn't give him the honor of the title 'friend.' Most NC State people are capable of being decent human beings. Most Wake Forest people are capable of being decent human beings. Most Duke people are capable of being decent human beings. I know hundreds of Carolina people and have probably met thousands, and I know about ten or a dozen people from that culture who are capable of being decent human beings. I could probably make a list, it's so short. Most of the 10-12 are still Facebook contacts with me, and three or four are dear friends. But, big whoop. You're supposed to be decent to people. You don't deserve a parade for basic human decency.

I have a son to consider here. In North Carolina's public schools, UNC kids are savage to Duke kids because they know they have the advantage of numbers. I don't want him growing up in the climate of hate and hostility and intimidation they have created. I would never raise my son in North Carolina. Even being back in the state to visit family gives me the willies. I don't want him even knowing UNC-Chapel Hill exists. I don't let him watch Duke-Carolina games for that reason. I don't want him going to Duke, so that he'll never have to deal with these sociopaths. I've had Duke flags stolen from my dwelling. I've seen my campus vandalized. I've had my automobile with Duke stickers vandalized in front of my own house. (People keyed exactly two things, the left front quarter panel, and the Duke alumni sticker--this isn't a coincidence). They have the J-School and the Pharmacy school and the Dental school. This means that every time you go to get pills or get your teeth cleaned in North Carolina, someone at that office will be totally nasty to you if they know your affiliation.

Turning the other cheek does not work with these people. Believe me, I spent years trying to. Thank God I've been gone for a decade. These are the people who made "make [spelling of Duke synonymous with feces] walk" T-shirts after the February snow that they themselves abandoned their cars during on 15-501. Haha, hilarious. 67-year old coach with two fake hips whose brother just died. Make him walk eleven miles in a snowstorm you're afraid to drive in.

My wife and I have tried to see to it that Carolina has no contact with us since she finished her degree. Meanwhile, Duke loses me every time I move and I have to tell them where I am, sometimes twice.

What can we do to get away from Carolina? Is a strongly-worded letter to their alumni association and to their development office enough? Or do I have to do something like getting a cease-and-desist letter? IANAL, so I don't even know how that works.

Wander
06-23-2014, 11:27 PM
Dude, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but you gotta put some serious thought into your level of sensitivity one of these days. What you described is nowhere near stalking, and for better or worse finding someone's address is absurdly easy these days.

diablesseblu
06-23-2014, 11:33 PM
Throaty,

I was fascinated by your post. Grew up here in NC (and am much older than you). I thought my experiences as a member of a "token" Duke family in rural NC were unique. Apparently, that's not the case.

It's hard for me to admit, but I also have a graduate degree from UNC. Duke did not offer my program. I continue to be both saddened and somewhat mortified by my connection to Chapel Hill. However, I've sort of "embraced" their contacting me. Had a recent phone call (on a Friday night, no less) from their development arm. It was ostensibly for money but clearly was also for alumni feedback on their current travails.

The graduating senior who called was surprised by how informed I was about their "situation." Also, he shared that their feedback from most alums was that of unbridled outrage. I have donated a few bucks over the years to my professional school. But, I was very clear with him.....not another dime until, and unless, the PTB there come clean about the issues involved. He said they are hearing that a lot.

I seriously doubt they will ever "come clean". However, there are more rumblings from esteemed faculty (mostly emeriti). You may enjoy reading this take from a venerable member of the Carolina community.

http://chapelboro.com/lifestyle/opinion/whatever-became-carolina-way/

If Bill Friday had not already died, this would surely put him in his grave. Sad stuff.

throatybeard
06-24-2014, 12:58 AM
Throaty,

I was fascinated by your post. Grew up here in NC (and am much older than you). I thought my experiences as a member of a "token" Duke family in rural NC were unique. Apparently, that's not the case.

It's hard for me to admit, but I also have a graduate degree from UNC. Duke did not offer my program. I continue to be both saddened and somewhat mortified by my connection to Chapel Hill. However, I've sort of "embraced" their contacting me. Had a recent phone call (on a Friday night, no less) from their development arm. It was ostensibly for money but clearly was also for alumni feedback on their current travails.

The graduating senior who called was surprised by how informed I was about their "situation." Also, he shared that their feedback from most alums was that of unbridled outrage. I have donated a few bucks over the years to my professional school. But, I was very clear with him.....not another dime until, and unless, the PTB there come clean about the issues involved. He said they are hearing that a lot.

I seriously doubt they will ever "come clean". However, there are more rumblings from esteemed faculty (mostly emeriti). You may enjoy reading this take from a venerable member of the Carolina community.

http://chapelboro.com/lifestyle/opinion/whatever-became-carolina-way/

If Bill Friday had not already died, this would surely put him in his grave. Sad stuff.

Thanks for your post. I too esteem Bill Friday. Among many other amazing actions, he endowed my adviser's chair at NC State.

Nonetheless, my chief aim at present is figuring out how to make sure UNC-Chapel Hill never contacts my household again. I will resort to legal action, if that is what it takes.

JasonEvans
06-24-2014, 08:11 AM
Ummm, I open my mail next to the trashcan. This allows me to spend less than 2 seconds dealing with mail I do not want.

But a simple letter to the alumni office asking them to permanently remove your wife from their mailing lists should suffice. In the pantheon of wrongdoings by fundraisers, this is about the most minor offense possible.

-Jason

sagegrouse
06-24-2014, 08:48 AM
Sounds like UNC is showing more diligence on alumni relations than on athletes' education.

I was the co-chair of my recent Duke reunion, and we had accurate data on about one-half the class and accurate email addresses on many fewer than that. All data were collected just from alums, not 3rd party data sources. "If they don't tell us, we don't know," was the word from Duke Alumni and Development. How refreshingly 1970!

Duvall
06-24-2014, 09:02 AM
This is why a state should never have a school that is allowed to think of itself as the state's flagship institution. Too influential, too arrogant, too dangerous.

superdave
06-24-2014, 09:07 AM
My favorite retort to fundraising calls is "why would I donate money when I am still paying off my student loans?"

I feel your pain, Throaty. The level of smug that still comes out of Chapel Hill continues to threaten the health of people everywhere.

FerryFor50
06-24-2014, 09:25 AM
My favorite retort to fundraising calls is "why would I donate money when I am still paying off my student loans?"

I feel your pain, Throaty. The level of smug that still comes out of Chapel Hill continues to threaten the health of people everywhere.

Yea I always say "I already donated when I went to school."

College isn't just overpriced tuition; it's fees, housing, etc.

UrinalCake
06-24-2014, 09:41 AM
I got an undergrad degree from Duke and a Master's from Vanderbilt, and both schools' alumni associations have managed to find me every time I've moved, even though I've never sent them my new addresses. I think this is pretty common. Maybe you need to send UNC a letter of disassociation! LOL

Dr. Rosenrosen
06-24-2014, 09:51 AM
There is a fee-based service from the USPS and others called national change of address (NCOA). Every mail-based marketing effort worth its salt uses this type of data to maintain "fresh" mailing addresses. There are tons of standard software tools that help match names across existing and NCOA databases. Just pick up the phone and opt out.

Can we please change the thread title? Stalking is a serious offense. This may be annoying but that's it.

And the overly negative view of living in NC as a Duke fan... Wow. As a Durham resident with kids in elementary school, I just don't even know what to say. Should I teach my kids to run for the hills to some supposed safe haven? Or teach them them to be proud of their Duke heritage and stick up for themselves?

diablesseblu
06-24-2014, 10:10 AM
This is why a state should never have a school that is allowed to think of itself as the state's flagship institution. Too influential, too arrogant, too dangerous.


Absolutely. I don't think it occurs to anyone at UNC that an alum would not want to hear from them!

If I were in this situation, I would send a certified letter marked "Addressee Only" asking that my name be removed from any and all mailing lists and with a
"Do Not Contact" annotation in the computer. In this case, would send to:

Doug Dibbert
Director of the General Alumni Association
101 Manning Drive Suite 6002 East Wing
Chapel Hill, North Carolina 27514
United States

Have your wife ask Dibbert to be the "point person" in getting all communication to cease. If it doesn't, then you'll have a record of communication to a responsible person who should have the "power" to make this happen.

I had no idea until recently that "mail forward" information could be purchased, but that explains some of the strange mail I've been getting lately.

Henderson
06-24-2014, 10:31 AM
Sounds like UNC is showing more diligence on alumni relations than on athletes' education.

I was the co-chair of my recent Duke reunion, and we had accurate data on about one-half the class and accurate email addresses on many fewer than that. All data were collected just from alums, not 3rd party data sources. "If they don't tell us, we don't know," was the word from Duke Alumni and Development. How refreshingly 1970!

I've moved more times than I'd like to count in the 30+ years since I graduated, and I've never once given Duke or the Alumni and Development people a new address. They just find me wherever I move. Unfortunately, the same thing is true of AARP. We aren't that hard to find, and like Mr. Evans, I have a waste basket.

Throaty: Think of it this way: The Evil Doers are wasting all that money on your wife! Joke's on them.

aimo
06-24-2014, 10:54 AM
I have lived in Durham all my life. Yes, we Duke fans were pretty much outnumbered by the holes, but I never experienced the levels of harassment you have mentioned. Usually when some hole feels the need to run his/her mouth about my Duke shirt, I am able to quickly turn the tides with a good smartass remark and soon everyone is laughing at him/her. Because they are idiots,or else they wouldn't be running their mouths in the first place. For example, a few years ago I was playing tennis with a bunch of strangers at Southern Boundaries Park here in Durham. I was wearing a pink ballcap with a Blue "D" on it, found it in the clearance bin in Harris Teeter. I'm just standing there waiting to return a serve, when I hear a deep voice mumble near me, "Ya'll gonna lose today." I looked around, feelings hurt, b/c I thought he was talking about my tennis match. I mean, he never saw me play - Geez! Then I saw who said it, some old fart in a UNC t-shirt and ballcap. This was Saturday morning of the ACC Tourney and the holes had almost lost the day before. My remark to him? "You ought be more worried about YOUR team after the way they played yesterday!" And that shut him up. I did not let him get a rise out of me. I simply pointed out the fact that is was an idiot hole. When the owner of my gym tells me he can get me a UNC t-shirt to wear instead of the Duke one I'm wearing, I say, "no, thanks, I have enough toilet paper already." I guess I'm just one of those obnoxious Duke fans.

DUKIECB
06-24-2014, 11:15 AM
I am finding it hard to believe that this bothers you so much. If this is the biggest problem you have in your life consider yourself lucky. I think if you try really hard you just might be able to persevere and find a way to make it through it. Keep us posted. The suspense is killing me.

Sorry for the snarkiness but there are a lot of people in this world who are hurting and have real problems. Getting a couple of unwanted letters in the mail from a university you attended, in my opinion, is not one of them.

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-24-2014, 11:25 AM
Is this mail addressed to you?

MCFinARL
06-24-2014, 12:36 PM
I got an undergrad degree from Duke and a Master's from Vanderbilt, and both schools' alumni associations have managed to find me every time I've moved, even though I've never sent them my new addresses. I think this is pretty common. Maybe you need to send UNC a letter of disassociation! LOL

Yes, schools can be relentless when they want to. My daughter who transferred from UVA to Duke after one year still gets lots and lots of mail/requests from UVA (although, admittedly, they haven't tracked her to her current out of state address; the mail still comes here). My other daughter occasionally gets fundraising communications from the public magnet high school she attended only her freshman year (!).

If they are only sending mail and not calling all the time, you aren't doing that badly.

oldnavy
06-24-2014, 12:49 PM
I have been amazed at UNC's persistence and ability to track me over the past 30 years.... My wife doesn't even give me the letters anymore... straight to the garbage.

As far as fans go, UNC has a lot of snobbish fans who love to claim superiority over all others. Mostly I just ignore them, and I have never had an encounter with a stranger where I felt "threatened"... mostly good natured kidding which I can be guilty of as well.

I hacked a lot of folks off at UNC back in 80's by wearing a DUKE sweatshirt to class... pretty soon they just got used to it and left me alone which was a huge plus during my time at that zoo.

Curious, now that I think about it, I haven't had near the number of comments from UNC fans since the whole "academic" and PJ scandals broke... has that been others experience as well?

Wander
06-24-2014, 01:17 PM
I am finding it hard to believe that this bothers you so much. If this is the biggest problem you have in your life consider yourself lucky. I think if you try really hard you just might be able to persevere and find a way to make it through it. Keep us posted. The suspense is killing me.


This is a guy who threw a large fit and genuinely thought it was a huge controversial moral outrage for Olympic Fan to say "I hate Yankees fans." If it wasn't for that, I might think the post was just a joke.

This is honestly the most embarrassing thread to these boards I've ever seen. It's the type of thing that makes me want to apologize to fans of other teams and say "hey, we're not all like this." I know it's the summer and we're bored for lack of actual basketball, but can the mods please delete or lock the thread? It really doesn't reflect well on us.

jipops
06-24-2014, 01:53 PM
I have a son to consider here. In North Carolina's public schools, UNC kids are savage to Duke kids because they know they have the advantage of numbers. I don't want him growing up in the climate of hate and hostility and intimidation they have created. I would never raise my son in North Carolina. Even being back in the state to visit family gives me the willies. I don't want him even knowing UNC-Chapel Hill exists. I don't let him watch Duke-Carolina games for that reason. I don't want him going to Duke, so that he'll never have to deal with these sociopaths. I've had Duke flags stolen from my dwelling. I've seen my campus vandalized. I've had my automobile with Duke stickers vandalized in front of my own house. (People keyed exactly two things, the left front quarter panel, and the Duke alumni sticker--this isn't a coincidence). They have the J-School and the Pharmacy school and the Dental school. This means that every time you go to get pills or get your teeth cleaned in North Carolina, someone at that office will be totally nasty to you if they know your affiliation.



I have two daughters that have been going through this for the last few years, in a Wake County elementary school. My son is learning about it in kindergarten. The experience has actually made them realize this is all avoidable by not putting any sort of Duke fandom on display, which is of course sad but thankfully they don't really give in to it. But honestly, any sort of complaint about this predicament further fuels these heels' fans savagery. I guess my take on it is let them be morons. They have to live with themselves even more than we have to live with them.

Also, maybe you can try writing them a break-up letter. "It's not you, it's me... actually it is you."

hurleyfor3
06-24-2014, 03:37 PM
Nonetheless, my chief aim at present is figuring out how to make sure UNC-Chapel Hill never contacts my household again.

Change your mail to a PO box or private mailbox and do all the forwarding manually -- don't fill out a form with the post office. This works best if you vacate (or have never lived at) the existing address, so try doing this with the rental property.

My address is a PO box, as it is with most people who live in the Colorado mountains. (Also, "UNC" is in Greeley.) My credit reports, stockbroker and so on all think I live in a 200-cubic-inch box of air.

Duke has my address because I've ordered transcripts to be sent to prospective employers. I don't read the alumni magazine, but the county gets money from recycling. I am on LinkedIn (but not FB) and use an address of a nearby town, partly as a diversion but also because the other place is larger and better known.

However, I attended two private high schools, both of the type that fishes for alumni money as rapaciously as any college does, and neither seems to know or care where I am. Or maybe they do and consider me not worth keeping in touch with.

77devil
06-24-2014, 03:38 PM
Dude, I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but you gotta put some serious thought into your level of sensitivity one of these days. What you described is nowhere near stalking, and for better or worse finding someone's address is absurdly easy these days.

A public television station in Florida that I haven't contributed to or had contact with in 20 years, and several moves ago, just called me. Yes it is very easy indeed. I receive way too many solicitations by mail, phone, and email. Annoyances yes, but not worth blowing a gasket.

I'm in North Carolina 6 times a year or so. Many of the people I interact with are North Carolina grads or fans. I've never encountered the hostility that Throaty is exercised about, but I largely suppress my Duke lineage in public. Some things just aren't worth the aggravation

TruBlu
06-24-2014, 04:52 PM
After my departure from Appalachian State, I have not heard one word from them.

Of course, they probably burned all written records of my time there, and sent any computer records to the same computer used by the IRS for e-mails.:o

ricks68
06-24-2014, 05:08 PM
For some reason many years ago I received a mass marketing solicitation addressed to "Rev." Ricks68. Somehow they must have figured the Dr. in front of my name was for a doctorate in religion. Wrong.

Well, every once in a while over the years I still get solicitations addressed like that. I figure that those same mailing lists just keep recirculating. One just popped up the other day again, even after moving to Asheville. Just the nature of the beast. Oh,.........and Duke still can't get my contact info right either, even after speaking to Iron Dukes, DukeAlumni, GoDuke, etc. Some get it right, some still don't.

ricks

Furniture
06-24-2014, 05:43 PM
Seriously? That's the craziest hate Carolina post I have seen since I have frequented these forums.....
Duke have also managed to find me after moving and I also said flat out after some phone contact that I can't afford to give while I am helping my daughter pay off her loans.
I have also not had any nasty comments about wearing Duke shirts or nobody has scratched my car because of my Duke stickers. I must live on another planet. No wait, it's NC...

arnie
06-24-2014, 06:02 PM
Seriously? That's the craziest hate Carolina post I have seen since I have frequented these forums.....
Duke have also managed to find me after moving and I also said flat out after some phone contact that I can't afford to give while I am helping my daughter pay off her loans.
I have also not had any nasty comments about wearing Duke shirts or nobody has scratched my car because of my Duke stickers. I must live on another planet. No wait, it's NC...

You are blessed so far. Have had a brick thrown through my car rear glass(had small Duke sticker) after a Duke bball win over the heels, sneers at a gym while wearing Duke t- shirt and worst of all, a UNC 1st grade teacher in Charlotte really worked over my son over supporting Duke. It's simply safer not to display Duke stuff in many areas of this State.

ricks68
06-24-2014, 06:11 PM
Seriously? That's the craziest hate Carolina post I have seen since I have frequented these forums.....
Duke have also managed to find me after moving and I also said flat out after some phone contact that I can't afford to give while I am helping my daughter pay off her loans.
I have also not had any nasty comments about wearing Duke shirts or nobody has scratched my car because of my Duke stickers. I must live on another planet. No wait, it's NC...

I haven't had any "real" hate yet here in Asheville, but it came close the other day with a UNC grad attorney. He was being a bit defensive about the scandal after we were having a very friendly "rivalry" discussion. Very, very friendly positive rivalry interaction until the scandal came up. Still cordial afterwards, but I could sense it beginning to turn, so I just ended it. I think that Asheville is by far not the typical NC area, however, due to the high amount of out-of-state residents and tremendous amount of tourists throughout the year. Surprisingly, the conversations I have had with most of the in-state locals here have been very pro Duke. I guess that it is just one more reason that those in power in the state consider Asheville to be "a cesspool of sin".:rolleyes:

ricks

hurleyfor3
06-24-2014, 06:20 PM
I haven't had any "real" hate yet here in Asheville... I think that Asheville is by far not the typical NC area, however, due to the high amount of out-of-state residents and tremendous amount of tourists throughout the year.

I've never sensed much of a unnch vibe in WNC either, except a little bit up around Boone, where Charlotte people like to have second homes. But then Boone isn't really part of traditional "WNC". People seem to follow the mountain schools -- App State, UNCA and Western -- more, and an adversarial dynamic exists between those schools and uncch. Also, as you mention, much of WNC draws from Atlanta, Florida and other places out-of-state.

Duvall
06-24-2014, 06:24 PM
I have lived in Durham all my life. Yes, we Duke fans were pretty much outnumbered by the holes, but I never experienced the levels of harassment you have mentioned. Usually when some hole feels the need to run his/her mouth about my Duke shirt, I am able to quickly turn the tides with a good smartass remark and soon everyone is laughing at him/her. Because they are idiots,or else they wouldn't be running their mouths in the first place. For example, a few years ago I was playing tennis with a bunch of strangers at Southern Boundaries Park here in Durham. I was wearing a pink ballcap with a Blue "D" on it, found it in the clearance bin in Harris Teeter. I'm just standing there waiting to return a serve, when I hear a deep voice mumble near me, "Ya'll gonna lose today." I looked around, feelings hurt, b/c I thought he was talking about my tennis match. I mean, he never saw me play - Geez! Then I saw who said it, some old fart in a UNC t-shirt and ballcap. This was Saturday morning of the ACC Tourney and the holes had almost lost the day before. My remark to him? "You ought be more worried about YOUR team after the way they played yesterday!" And that shut him up. I did not let him get a rise out of me. I simply pointed out the fact that is was an idiot hole. When the owner of my gym tells me he can get me a UNC t-shirt to wear instead of the Duke one I'm wearing, I say, "no, thanks, I have enough toilet paper already." I guess I'm just one of those obnoxious Duke fans.


I have two daughters that have been going through this for the last few years, in a Wake County elementary school. My son is learning about it in kindergarten. The experience has actually made them realize this is all avoidable by not putting any sort of Duke fandom on display, which is of course sad but thankfully they don't really give in to it. But honestly, any sort of complaint about this predicament further fuels these heels' fans savagery. I guess my take on it is let them be morons. They have to live with themselves even more than we have to live with them.



You are blessed so far. Have had a brick thrown through my car rear glass(had small Duke sticker) after a Duke bball win over the heels, sneers at a gym while wearing Duke t- shirt and worst of all, a UNC 1st grade teacher in Charlotte really worked over my son over supporting Duke. It's simply safer not to display Duke stuff in many areas of this State.

It's important to realize that this is an unhealthy state of affairs. Literally - dealing with these kind of microaggressions on a regular basis will take years off your life.

DrChainsaw
06-24-2014, 06:32 PM
I have degrees from Duke, State and UNC. They all find me, even though I don't want them to and don't give money any more. Since leaving Duke in 1983, I've had about 15 different addresses. I get emails and calls to my "unlisted" number from them all.

When I was living in Chapel Hill (about 13 years off & on), the only people who really got in my face were drunk Duke fans on Franklin after a Carolina loss at the Dome, when I didn't happen to be wearing a Duke shirt. I did have a good amount of good-natured give and take with Carolina fans, including former players.

They all do it. We all have obnoxious fans. State and UNC just have larger fan bases to draw from.

For the sake of complete disclosure, I will pull for State against just about anybody, except for Duke. Carolina can GTH, but I like it when they have a good team, because it's more satisfying to shame them when they do.

Dr. Rosenrosen
06-24-2014, 06:38 PM
You are blessed so far. Have had a brick thrown through my car rear glass(had small Duke sticker) after a Duke bball win over the heels, sneers at a gym while wearing Duke t- shirt and worst of all, a UNC 1st grade teacher in Charlotte really worked over my son over supporting Duke. It's simply safer not to display Duke stuff in many areas of this State.
I wear my duke hat EVERY time I go to whole foods over in Chapel Hill. What the hell do I care what they think? And the truth is, the dudes behind the counter weighing out my fish and steaks couldn't give a rat's arse. Let the patrons stare and mumble. It makes life more interesting. But I sure as hell am not going to hide my loyalty.

My father taught me an important lesson once when I was very young about hiding the fact that I was Jewish in predominantly non-Jewish settings (in that case, summer camp) and how I needed to have much greater respect for myself and my heritage. He reminded me how proud I should have felt -- instead of self conscious and fearful of exclusion.

Folks, this isn't 1930's Germany. There's nothing to hide nor anyone to hide from. But plenty of good lessons for our young ones to learn.

Saltchunk
06-24-2014, 07:36 PM
TB - I'm a Wake law grad and they manage to track me down as well. That just comes with the territory these days. I do take issue with the overall premise of your lengthy post. I grew up in NC as a Duke fan and was certainly outnumbered by Heel fans. However, I haven't experience the level of abuse you describe. I have been hassled wearing a Duke tee in Chapel Hill. Big whoop. I grew up in the NC public school system you seem to fear. Again - big whoop. Sure, I was outnumbered - particularly in the 70s before Coach K came in and achieved the dizzying heights we've enjoyed all these years. I heard the "Duke is puke. Wake is Fake. And who do we hate - NC State" cheer year in and year out. But I held my chest high and cheered the many victories we've had over the years. I think your post smacks a bit of paranoia. My dad is a Duke prof and I had a sister go to Duke as an undergrad. She then went to Carolina for grad school and remained a Duke fan throughout. Did she experience some ribbing from Tar Heels? Yeah. So what? My other sister went it UNC. Recent scandal and withering state financial support withstanding, it is one of the best public universities in the nation. In its latter years, the Duke research vessel Cape Hatteras was shared by both Duke and UNC. What a mature move by these schools. Maybe the fans from both schools should follow suit.

duke74
06-24-2014, 07:48 PM
You all should move up to NYC. :) I have my "Duke74" NY license plate, and all I get are thumbs up signs from drivers and positive comments from passersby.

Henderson
06-24-2014, 08:49 PM
You all should move up to NYC.

When the ACC Tourney is at MSG, you can count on it. Just make sure your floor is clean enough for lots of sleeping bags and there is beer in the fridge.

Furniture
06-24-2014, 08:54 PM
I paid a lot of money for my daughters wonderful Duke Education. Thanks heaven after all of it she is still extremely good friends with three girls that went to UNC, two that went to Wake and one to NCS.
All extremely good kids.
So many issues with the original post. Why was there any reference to stalking of women? What did that have to do with it? I just don't understand how someone can hate an institution so much but when it suits them gladly accept the benefits of a degree from there.
Is this the Duke way? Does a post like this represent Duke the university and this forum? Say what you like about Carolina but when I read posts like that it makes me question my daughters education at Duke.

duke74
06-24-2014, 10:08 PM
When the ACC Tourney is at MSG, you can count on it. Just make sure your floor is clean enough for lots of sleeping bags and there is beer in the fridge.

Yes...and yes....

Trinity_93
06-25-2014, 12:44 PM
I do have the misfortune of having taken two Linguistics courses over there through the consortium (although I loved my Syntax professor, who has since moved back to his native Germany).

True dat: Gert Webelhuth was awesome in his awesomeness and really invested in us: I remember how I felt when I received a heartfelt note of sympathy from him when he heard my mom had died a semester after I took his course.


In 1999, after Duke's 81-61 win at the Dean Dome, a crowd of over 100 people stood and cheered outside the Hinton James dormitory while three Carolina guys beat a Duke student.

I sat through that game in the UNC student section with a jacket over my Duke shirt exercising self-control that would make a yogi's jaw drop. I kept all the joy bottled up inside me and it was sublime, just as I imagine Tantric sex is supposed to be. Had I been the one to take the beating, it would have been worth it.

CameronBornAndBred
06-25-2014, 02:53 PM
This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen in a long time. Not sure why it is not on the OTB, but I will say my two cents.
I grew up in Durham, the son of two Duke grads that went on to work at Duke hospital. There was only one team I was going to grow up cheering for. In my school(s), the majority of my classmates were UNC and State fans. Not once did I ever get into a fight or feel bullied because I was a Duke fan and they liked Carolina. Not once did my dentist ever invent cavities so he could torture me because I was a Duke fan brought in by mom, the graduate of Duke nursing.
My friends and I LOVED our rivalry. We'd watch games together, tell each other "your team sucks", and then afterwards go outside and play basketball together.
Still shaking my head that anyone has the level of paranoia that their kid is going to have a horrible childhood being raised in NC because his dad went to Duke. That is absolutely bizarre.

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-25-2014, 04:51 PM
This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen in a long time. Not sure why it is not on the OTB, but I will say my two cents.
I grew up in Durham, the son of two Duke grads that went on to work at Duke hospital. There was only one team I was going to grow up cheering for. In my school(s), the majority of my classmates were UNC and State fans. Not once did I ever get into a fight or feel bullied because I was a Duke fan and they liked Carolina. Not once did my dentist ever invent cavities so he could torture me because I was a Duke fan brought in by mom, the graduate of Duke nursing.
My friends and I LOVED our rivalry. We'd watch games together, tell each other "your team sucks", and then afterwards go outside and play basketball together.
Still shaking my head that anyone has the level of paranoia that their kid is going to have a horrible childhood being raised in NC because his dad went to Duke. That is absolutely bizarre.
I tend to agree with you on many points and wish to add one more observation.

The mail which seemed to trigger the original post was not addressed to the OP. It was addressed to his wife. This thread is full of discussion about how some have been treated and also how they have treated others in the name of a rivalry, but in my opinion, a bigger issue has been overlooked.

The mail was not addressed to the OP. Judging by the description of her educational and professional accomplishments, the woman/wife to whom the mail was sent appears to be a very capable adult who does not need intervention to cope with what's come in the mail.

alteran
06-25-2014, 05:03 PM
So much to respond to.

The first, maybe tertiary matter-- UNC's ability to track people down is uncanny. And they've been tied into the matrix for years. In the 80s, when I went to UNC-Wilmington, I got parking tickets from time to time. They always tracked students down. I had a friend visit from Raleigh who got a ticket, I told him not to worry, they'd never find a car not registered on campus. I was right.

When I transferred to UNC, on the other hand, it was another story. I had a friend who visited with Maryland plates, and he got a follow-up to his ticket a few weeks later. He was in college to, so he moved a lot. UNC knew how to find him anyway. Mind you, this was the 80s, before databases were available everywhere. UNC was Big Brothering before Big Brothering was cool. God only knows how many databases UNC has it's hands on now. Creepy.

alteran
06-25-2014, 05:44 PM
This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen in a long time. Not sure why it is not on the OTB, but I will say my two cents.
I grew up in Durham, the son of two Duke grads that went on to work at Duke hospital. There was only one team I was going to grow up cheering for. In my school(s), the majority of my classmates were UNC and State fans. Not once did I ever get into a fight or feel bullied because I was a Duke fan and they liked Carolina.

My first day of school at Hillandale Elementary School in Durham, I was bullied by a--hole sixth graders with whispy facial hair because they flunked a couple times. I was the last stop on the bus route, so I was stuck with them. I got grabbed, shoved, and had bruises. Like pre-teens will, they had moved on by my second day, but the event left an indelible mark.

I've experienced a lot of BS from UNC fans over the years, most of it at the level of annoyance or rudeness. But I have had several events on the nasty end, like a guy picking a fight with me at Duke Hospital-- DUKE HOSPITAL!, after I accidentally bumped into him and immediately apologized. His first comment was about my Duke hat, which I didn't even realize I was wearing until he mentioned it. But for me, the BS has not been at the level of what Throaty has been through.

The vast, VAST majority of UNC fans are great people. Furthermore, I matriculated at UNC in the late 80s, and I would say I experienced far less BS there than elsewhere. In fact, I can't remember anything bad at all there, now that I think about it. My theory has long been that a-holes and bullies gravitate to UNC because, at least in NC, it gives them cover to be, well, a-holes and bullies.

Maybe I've been unlucky. But maybe you've been lucky. Either way, there's a lot of jerks in NC with major entitlement relating to their perceived affiliation with UNC.

DukieInKansas
06-25-2014, 06:15 PM
My first day of school at Hillandale Elementary School in Durham, I was bullied by a--hole sixth graders with whispy facial hair because they flunked a couple times. I was the last stop on the bus route, so I was stuck with them. I got grabbed, shoved, and had bruises. Like pre-teens will, they had moved on by my second day, but the event left an indelible mark.

I've experienced a lot of BS from UNC fans over the years, most of it at the level of annoyance or rudeness. But I have had several events on the nasty end, like a guy picking a fight with me at Duke Hospital-- DUKE HOSPITAL!, after I accidentally bumped into him and immediately apologized. His first comment was about my Duke hat, which I didn't even realize I was wearing until he mentioned it. But for me, the BS has not been at the level of what Throaty has been through.

The vast, VAST majority of UNC fans are great people. Furthermore, I matriculated at UNC in the late 80s, and I would say I experienced far less BS there than elsewhere. In fact, I can't remember anything bad at all there, now that I think about it. My theory has long been that a-holes and bullies gravitate to UNC because, at least in NC, it gives them cover to be, well, a-holes and bullies.

Maybe I've been unlucky. But maybe you've been lucky. Either way, there's a lot of jerks in NC with major entitlement relating to their perceived affiliation with UNC.

There is a lot of that entitlement to go around in other states with other schools. Around here, it is KU over KSU. It is tiring to always have people thinking they are superior because of their affiliation with one school rather than the other but usually the really rude/destructive/combative types are few and far between. One friend described it as people being surprised that she is a KSU fan when she could be a KU fan. Definitely an annoying attitude. Since there are so few unc fans around here, there is generally an exchange of good natured ribbing. I did replace someone's tar heel shirt with a beautiful Duke shirt. I was going to use the tar heel shirt to wash my car but I'm afraid it will hurt the paint. :D

A piece of mail delivered to your house from a much disliked sender shouldn't be such a cause for distress - especially if it is addressed to someone else. One possible solution - if they include a business reply return envelope, put all the paperwork they sent, including the envelope, and send it back with a request to be removed from the mailing list. They pay for the privilege of getting their mailing back. Please note: This should only be done by the addressee and not a spouse.

77devil
06-25-2014, 09:46 PM
This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen in a long time.

Indeed.


Still shaking my head that anyone has the level of paranoia that their kid is going to have a horrible childhood being raised in NC because his dad went to Duke. That is absolutely bizarre.

If Throaty was a psych. prof, I'd suggest his post was a weird social psychology experiment. Yet, I'm still not convinced it isn't a ruse.

Indoor66
06-26-2014, 09:59 AM
If Throaty was a psych. prof, I'd suggest his post was a weird social psychology experiment. Yet, I'm still not convinced it isn't a ruse.

Yeah. Either a ruse or the most childish thread ever on DBR.

Duvall
06-26-2014, 10:10 AM
It's almost like different people have different life experiences. Crazy.

Des Esseintes
06-26-2014, 10:30 AM
It's almost like different people have different life experiences. Crazy.

Except a) identifying one's wife receiving a fundraising letter *from a school she attended* as stalking and b) linking that letter somehow(?) to the violent predations of that school's civilian fanbase don't really fall under differing life experiences, do they? They're much closer to complaints about a rogue helicopter pilot on the loose inside this airspace (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1hyqA6UTY).

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-26-2014, 10:51 AM
Perhaps it's time to lock this thread.:eek:

Wander
06-26-2014, 10:54 AM
It's almost like different people have different life experiences. Crazy.

If a person's life experience is that they think less than 1% of people from a certain race/religion/school/country/state/whatever are "capable of being decent human beings," then it is far more likely that their story reveals something about that person rather than the large group.

nocilla
06-26-2014, 11:29 AM
If a person's life experience is that they think less than 1% of people from a certain race/religion/school/country/state/whatever are "capable of being decent human beings," then it is far more likely that their story reveals something about that person rather than the large group.

I agree with this. I had a similar thought reading a different thread last week. Our Maryland friend claimed that he had been cussed out by most every fan base in the ACC. His point was that it wasn't just Maryland fans that yell obscenities and every team has delusional fans. While I agreed with his premise to an extent, I couldn't help but to think that he was revealing a little about himself and by association, the Maryland fan base in general. What was he doing to invoke all these tongue lashings? People don't just cuss at you because of what you are wearing without some kind of provokement. I have never been cussed at by opposing fans, granted I probably haven't been to as many different arenas as him and others have. I do get comments from UNC fans occasionally, but never anything past PG-13 level. I just smile and sometimes play along with the smack talk.

hurleyfor3
06-26-2014, 11:40 AM
The extent to and means by which schools attempt to contact their alumni is fair game, as is whether this constitutes "stalking" (my answer here is no). However, discussion of the sensibilities of the OP, or any other poster, is over the line. [/mod]

MartyClark
06-26-2014, 05:06 PM
I have only observed the Duke-UNC rivalry from afar so I don't question anyone's observations or experiences.l

I really appreciate the manner in which people on this board discuss issues in a thoughtful and usually civil way. There are also 6 or 7 people on this board who are excellent writers. Throatybeard is at the top of the list.

CameronBornAndBred
06-26-2014, 05:30 PM
The extent to and means by which schools attempt to contact their alumni is fair game, as is whether this constitutes "stalking" (my answer here is no). However, discussion of the sensibilities of the OP, or any other poster, is over the line. [/mod]
Ok, fair enough, but since this isn't about basketball, football, or any particular sport at all, and instead is a borderline public policy discussion, why is it in the EK?

hurleyfor3
06-26-2014, 05:33 PM
Ok, fair enough, but since this isn't about basketball, football, or any particular sport at all, and instead is a borderline public policy discussion, why is it in the EK?

It touches on Duke in general, considering that's where most of us went. Really, is it that big a deal which board it's on?

mpj96
06-26-2014, 07:41 PM
This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen in a long time. Not sure why it is not on the OTB, but I will say my two cents.
I grew up in Durham, the son of two Duke grads that went on to work at Duke hospital. There was only one team I was going to grow up cheering for. In my school(s), the majority of my classmates were UNC and State fans. Not once did I ever get into a fight or feel bullied because I was a Duke fan and they liked Carolina. Not once did my dentist ever invent cavities so he could torture me because I was a Duke fan brought in by mom, the graduate of Duke nursing.
My friends and I LOVED our rivalry. We'd watch games together, tell each other "your team sucks", and then afterwards go outside and play basketball together.
Still shaking my head that anyone has the level of paranoia that their kid is going to have a horrible childhood being raised in NC because his dad went to Duke. That is absolutely bizarre.

Born and raised in NC. Agree with this post 100%. Throaty I love you but you are weirding out on this one.

Henderson
06-27-2014, 09:12 AM
Perhaps it's time to lock this thread.:eek:

24 hours later. Perhaps now?

Furniture
06-27-2014, 12:18 PM
24 hours later. Perhaps now?

Not locked. Deleted!