Kansas to represent USA at 2015 World University Games

[wk2109]

This is pretty interesting -- Kansas will be serving as Team USA at next summer's World University Games.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2014/basketball/ncaa/wires/06/17/2060.ap.bkc.kansas.world.university.games.1st.ld.w ritethru.0840/index.html


The Jayhawks will be representing the U.S. at the World University Games in Gwangju, South Korea. The event in July 2015 will match the reigning Big 12 champions - ahem, Team USA - against nations from around the world, most of which will be putting together all-star teams for the tournament.

''We went through a pretty strong, long process to find the most appropriate team, and when we went through the criteria, Kansas was a great fit,'' said Craig Jonas, the deputy head of the U.S. delegation. ''When you walk the halls here, you understand what a great tradition Kansas has.''

It wasn't tradition that got the Jayhawks chosen, though. The U.S. International University Sports Federation used a matrix that included won-loss records over the past five years, the RPI number from recent seasons and the composition of the current roster.

''When you went through the machinery,'' Jonas said, ''Kansas was our No. 1 choice.''

This type of team choice isn't completely unprecedented. I remember the Springfield College men's volleyball team (the 2013 NCAA D-III national champions) represented the USA at the 2013 games. Unfortunately that team found itself a little out of its league and finished tied for 19th overall.

[Henderson]

What a horrible idea. Good luck to Team Kansas, but don't expect me to care how you do. In fact, I kind of hope you lose so we can put this dumb idea to bed.

[dukelifer]

What a horrible idea. Good luck to Team Kansas, but don't expect me to care how you do. In fact, I kind of hope you lose so we can put this dumb idea to bed.

I agree that it is a bad idea. But I doubt many people will watch this anyway.

[awhom111]

This method of picking a team is actually reasonably common. Besides Springfield, Kansas State contested Women's Volleyball. USC played team tennis. UCLA and Cal each took one of the water polo teams. Navy provided nearly all of the Women's Rugby team.

I am not surprised they wanted to try something different after last year's relative debacle against two other teams with heavy NCAA presence.

I wonder where we fell in their apparent formula, since I believe we are due for an international trip next summer. I also do not understand why we need to pick now when we have no idea what these teams will look like in a year.

[OldPhiKap]

I am okay with this. Something to be said about teamwork as opposed to disparate talent.

Go USA, whomever we put out there.

[FerryFor50]

I am okay with this. Something to be said about teamwork as opposed to disparate talent.

Go USA, whomever we put out there.

Agreed. (Unless we send UNC or Kentucky. Then go, Mother Russia!)

[dukelifer]

I am okay with this. Something to be said about teamwork as opposed to disparate talent.

Go USA, whomever we put out there.

I much prefer what Dean Smith did by taking a core of his team and adding talent around it. The problem with many college teams is the bench is not at the same level as the starters. In a round robin tourney- it can be wearing without good depth.

[OldPhiKap]

I much prefer what Dean Smith did . . . .

Someone stole dukelifer's password and identity! Quick, someone run over and make sure this the real dukelifer is not tied up in a closet!

(But I agree with your point)

[Li_Duke]

If we don't win the Worlds in 2014, Team USA will have to qualify for the Olympics. So since Coach K's availability for the summer of 2015 is questionable, I can understand Duke not being considered for this honor.

[sagegrouse]

If we don't win the Worlds in 2014, Team USA will have to qualify for the Olympics. So since Coach K's availability for the summer of 2015 is questionable, I can understand Duke not being considered for this honor.

Uh, Mr. Li Duke, we are not on the same page. I thought this was about the World University Games and unrelated to the US National Team and the FIBA championships.

[CDu]

Uh, Mr. Li Duke, we are not on the same page. I thought this was about the World University Games and unrelated to the US National Team and the FIBA championships.

Right, but Coach K is the coach of both the US National Team AND Duke. So if Duke were to be chosen as the representative for the World University Games, Coach K would be the coach of the team in the World University Games. Right?

Hence, because Coach K might need to be coaching the National Team, Duke would not be the right choice for the World University Games.

[wk2109]

Uh, Mr. Li Duke, we are not on the same page. I thought this was about the World University Games and unrelated to the US National Team and the FIBA championships.

Li_Duke is saying that because Team USA might need to play in the FIBA Americas tournament in 2015 in the event the team doesn't win gold at the World Championships this summer, Coach K might not be available to coach at the World University Games.

[Olympic Fan]

I'm very interested in the choice to send Kansas as a team.

As others have noted, it's not unprecedented. The 1936 US Olympic Basketball team that won the gold in Berlin was entirely made up of the Universal Studios AAU team. Interesting side note -- the US probably would have been represented by Clair Bee's undefeated Long Island team, but that squad voted to boycott Hitler's Olympic games. The Universal studio team won the play-in tournament and went instead.

After the war, we continued to base our international teams on one team, although we did start to add players from other places to strengthen it. The 1948 Olympic team was basically Kentucky's 1948 Fab Five (which won the 1948 and 1949 NCAA titles). They added several other players, including UCLA star Don Barksdale, our first black Olympic player. The core of the 1952 Olympic team was an AAU team, although Kansas center Clyde Lovellette was added and ended up as the team's leading scorer (Bob Kurland, off another AAU team, was also added).

Starting in 1956, we began sending all-star teams, composed on college players, AAU stars and players off military teams.

While I don't think the decision to send a complete team to represent the US is that controversial, I wondered about the choice of Kansas. I looked at the criteria cited by the selection committee -- a matrix of won-loss records over the last five years, RPI numbers and the composition of the current roster.

Is Kansas the best choice?

Here is my breakdown of the four most obvious candidates:

WINS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS
1. Kansas averaged 31.2 wins a year (low of 25 wins)
2. Kentucky 30.4 wins (lose of 21 wins)
3. Duke 30.0 wins (low of 26 wins)
4. Michigan State 26.4 (low of 19 wins)

AVERAGE RPI OVER THE LAST FIBE YEARS
1. Kansas 3.2 (twice No. 1, low of No. 6)
2. Duke 4.0 (once No. 1, high of No. 7)
3. Michigan State 17.2 (high of No. 3, low of No. 38)
4. Kentucky 18.0 (high of No. 2, low of No. 56)

Although not mentioned, I looked at two other categories
NCAA WINS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS
1. Kentucky -18 (one championship, one missed tournament)
2. Kansas -- 12 (no titles, but at least one win every year)
3. (tie) Duke -- 11 (one title, but two opening losses)
Michigan State -- 11 (one final four, one opening loss)

AVERAGE POMERPY RATINGS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS
1. Kansas -- 5.6 (low of No. 12)
2. Duke -- 9.0 (low of No. 21)
3. Michigan State -- 13.8 (low of No. 46)
4. Kentucky -- 17.4 (low of No. 67)

Now, that five year period is arbitrary, but it was apparently the time-frame used by the committee. It helps Duke in that it includes our 2010 national title season. I think over the five-year time span, it's obvious that Kansas has been slightly more consistent than Duke. Kentucky and Michigan State have been far more inconsistent -- although Kentucky has enjoyed more NCAA success than anybody in that span.

But then we get to the third criteria cited by the committee -- the composition of the current rosters Based on the consensus of the preseason polls I've seen, I would rank the four schools:

1. Kentucky
2. Duke
3. Kansas
4. Michigan State

I've seen a few preseason polls that rank Duke ahead of Kentucky, but I can't find any poll that ranks Kansas ahead of Kentucky or Duke. Based on Self's track record of consistency, Kansas ought to be pretty good ... but the roster is not the best. At the very least, Self ought to add a few players from other sources to bolster his depth.

Look, I'm not arguing that Duke ought to go instead. I agree with Li_Duke that Krzyzewski's responsibilities with the US National team make it impossible for him to commit to coach in the world university games next summer. Besides, Kansas HAS been slightly more consistent over the last five years.

It is a great opportunity for Self and Kansas -- they've earned it.

PS I can see the argument for UConn, which has won two national titles in the five-year span, but the Huskies have not been very consistent. I just glanced at Arizona and Florida as potential candidates, but neither seemed as strong as the top three.

[Bob Green]

I much prefer what Dean Smith did by taking a core of his team and adding talent around it.

I'm assuming you are referring to the 1976 Olympic Team, which included four Tar Heels. Dean Smith didn't hand select the team although he certainly had input. There was a selection committee who picked the players. Smith really desired for Clemson's Wayne Rollins to be included, because he believed Rollins would thrive in the more physical international game where as he was constantly in foul trouble during college games. The committee disagreed, Rollins wasn't selected and Smith wasn't happy about it.

At least that's the way I remember it.

[Wander]

I like the idea. I've always wondered if we could win the Olympic gold by just sending the Miami Heat or whoever, rather than an all-star team. That isn't so relevant anymore now that we're taking things more seriously since 2004 and the guys have more time to practice together (and a better coach!), but still.

Is the roster being sent the 2014-2015 or 2015-2016 one? It's not entirely clear to me based on the article. If the former, then it would have been cool to just send whatever team won the tournament, as impractical as that would have been. But otherwise Kansas is as good a choice as you can find.

[johnb]

Apparently, KU doesn't have to use its current team but rather any US-born players (i.e., not Wiggins or Embiid) who are enrolled at KU and under the age of 25. Fans seem to think that this could include some combo of Thomas Robinson, Tyshawn Taylor, Travis Releford, Jeff Withey, and Ben McLemore, as long as they enrolled for a term of summer school.

If that is true, then the 5 year thing might be related not just to the fact that they tend to be good but because they can call upon players who are really good but still have some classes to take...

[sagegrouse]

Starting in 1956, we began sending all-star teams, composed on college players, AAU stars and players off military teams.



OF, that gibes with my memory. Up through the 1960's, there was a fandango where the "word" was that the team would be one-half college and one-half AAU. So, some of the college guys would jump on AAU teams as soon as the college season ended. The team was selected as a result of tryouts, so AAU games didn't matter. Who knows whether the "word" was correct or not.

I do remember that Hank Iba, the coach in '64, '68 and '72, would ask the selection committee to pick 11 payers and let him pick the 12th. Smart guy.

[Newton_14]

OF, that gibes with my memory. Up through the 1960's, there was a fandango where the "word" was that the team would be one-half college and one-half AAU. So, some of the college guys would jump on AAU teams as soon as the college season ended. The team was selected as a result of tryouts, so AAU games didn't matter. Who knows whether the "word" was correct or not.

I do remember that Hank Iba, the coach in '64, '68 and '72, would ask the selection committee to pick 11 payers and let him pick the 12th. Smart guy.
Sorry to be so dense on this one, but I need some help. Who is Kansas replacing? Since K took over the National team, I have paid far more attention, but evidently, not enough. K takes the National Team to the "Worlds" and then two years late the Olympics. I at first thought the article was referring to those "Worlds" competition, but "World University Games" I suppose is something entirely different. So which team do we normally send to this particular tourney?

Thanks in advance!

N_14

[wk2109]

Sorry to be so dense on this one, but I need some help. Who is Kansas replacing? Since K took over the National team, I have paid far more attention, but evidently, not enough. K takes the National Team to the "Worlds" and then two years late the Olympics. I at first thought the article was referring to those "Worlds" competition, but "World University Games" I suppose is something entirely different. So which team do we normally send to this particular tourney?

Thanks in advance!

N_14

Here's the Wikipedia article on the World University Games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universiade


The Universiade is an international multi-sport event, organized for university athletes by the International University Sports Federation (FISU). The name is a combination of the words "University" and "olympiad". The Universiade is often referred to in English as the World University Games or World Student Games; however, this latter term can also refer to competitions for sub-University grades students, as well.

USA Basketball held a tryout last summer for the 2013 WUG. Rodney Hood was invited but injured his achilles during tryouts and was unable to play. Last summer's team included Doug McDermott, Adreian Payne and Luke Hancock and finished in 9th place.

[awhom111]

If we don't win the Worlds in 2014, Team USA will have to qualify for the Olympics. So since Coach K's availability for the summer of 2015 is questionable, I can understand Duke not being considered for this honor.

The person in the article said that Kansas was rated first so I was wondering how Duke stacks up according to their metrics.

The World University Games are in early July while the FIBA Americas Championship is likely right at the end of August and pretty much all in September, so there would theoretically be no overlap. As I mentioned, we are due for an overseas trip next summer, so I assume we are planning one regardless of what happens with Team USA.


Sorry to be so dense on this one, but I need some help. Who is Kansas replacing? Since K took over the National team, I have paid far more attention, but evidently, not enough. K takes the National Team to the "Worlds" and then two years late the Olympics. I at first thought the article was referring to those "Worlds" competition, but "World University Games" I suppose is something entirely different. So which team do we normally send to this particular tourney?

Thanks in advance!

N_14

http://www.usab.com/mens/worlduniversity/roster.html

This is the last one. Quinn Cook pulled out before training camp and Rodney Hood was injured as he was in good position to make the team.

[awhom111]

Here are the eligibility rules for all USA athletes in this event:
http://www.wugusa.com/summer-games/eligibility-for-event/

The basketball ones have been tradtionally more rigorous than other sports and ours historically are far more restrictive than ones used by other countries, which is why we have struggled at Men's Basketball and why our Women's Basketball team had a couple of really tough games despite a strong roster.

[Henderson]

The official oversight body in the US for the World University Games is the US-IUSF (United States International University Sports Federation), which is not the same thing as the U.S. Olympic Committee or USA Basketball, our officially sanctioned representative to FIBA. US-IUSF is a separate organization created in 1949 that is now in terrible financial shape. So bad in fact that they contracted out day-to-day and logistical management to a corporate manager, BTI Events ("Global Sports Properties"). https://www.facebook.com/WUGUSA/info.
I suspect they've decided to gamble that a pan-U.S. team that loses will lose them money, and any other model that wins makes them money. So choose a model that might win, even if it only represents the University of Kansas and not me. Because if BTI Events doesn't make money, US-IUSF is bankrupt. But it might be anyway, because FIBA is making it redundant.

[Olympic Fan]

OF, that gibes with my memory. Up through the 1960's, there was a fandango where the "word" was that the team would be one-half college and one-half AAU. So, some of the college guys would jump on AAU teams as soon as the college season ended. The team was selected as a result of tryouts, so AAU games didn't matter. Who knows whether the "word" was correct or not.

I do remember that Hank Iba, the coach in '64, '68 and '72, would ask the selection committee to pick 11 payers and let him pick the 12th. Smart guy.

Actually, before there was USA Basketball, the US National teams were administered by the AAU. Not sure when that changed.

The rosters were split between the NCAA and AAU and military players as late as 1968. That team included two AAU players (Cal Fowler was the most prominent) and three military players -- all former basketball players at West Point (Mike Silliman was the best of the three). It also included two jucos (including unknown Spencer Haywood) and five NCAA players (Jo Jo White and Charlie Scott were the best). It was also interesting that was the first team to conclude college underclassmen -- through 1964, graduating seniors were the only NCAA players invited. Growing up, I always thought that was unfair. If your senior year was an Olympic year, you had a chance to play. If you missed, you were out of luck.

That '68 team has always been my favorite Olympic team. That was a year when most of the game's big stars -- especially Alcindor and Hayes, but a LOT of other guys -- refused to participate. It was considered a rag-tag team. Scott coming off a great junior year at UNC and White, a star at Kansas, were the big names. We knew Bill Hoskins from Ohio State and Ken Spain was a supporting player to Elvin Hayes at Houston, but that was about it.

We also knew the USA Baseball had never lost a game in the Olympics. But this was thought to be the end. The US team made a pre-Olympic tour of Europe and they were manhandled. Russia and Yugoslavia were both given great chances to beat us in Mexico City. But the US fought its way to the gold medal game as Haywood emerged as star to go with the backcourt of Scott and White. Matched against the Yugoslavs in the finals, we led by three at the half, but the lead seemed very tenuous. A largely anti-American crowd was cheering the Yugoslavs on.

The next 10 minutes were the greatest 10 minutes of non-Duke basketball I've ever seen in my life -- the US unleashed a fullcourt press with a three guard lineup and with Scott, White and Fowler absolutely destroying the Yugoslavs, the US reeled off 17 straight points to put the game away.

The 1972 US Olympic team that suffered its controversial loss in Munich included one AAU player (Kenny Davis), one juco and 10 underclassmen. It didn't include the best amateur player on the planet. David Thompson, who had just completed his freshman year at NC State, wanted to play, but he was not invited -- even though the coach of the Lakers labeled DT one of the 10 best players in the world -- pro or college. I've always believed that with Thompson in Munich, there never would have been any drama. It didn't help that Walton and quite a few others boycotted the team (although not as many as in '68).

The '76 team was the first made up 100 percent of NCAA players. It stayed that way until the '88 team lost in Korea and the Dream Team was formed in ;92.

On another matter. I haven't seen this mentioned ... what is the NCAA's take on Kansas going overseas as a team? Does this count as their one foreign trip is four years or do they get a special dispensation for this tournament?