Melo joining the Heat and other NBA Free Agent talk

[Mabdul Doobakus]

(post copied from the NBA Final thread)

...Also enjoying seeing Twitter blow up at the thought of Carmelo Anthony potentially joining the Heat this offseason. I almost want this to happen just to see people collectively lose their minds.

[CDu]

Also enjoying seeing Twitter blow up at the thought of Carmelo Anthony potentially joining the Heat this offseason. I almost want this to happen just to see people collectively lose their minds.

Of course you do. What Heat fan wouldn't want Anthony to join LeBron and take the pressure off of Wade? I'll be pretty surprised if it happens. Seems like they'd need a lot of moving parts to go right (including either Anthony taking chump change or all four guys opting out and taking substantially less money). But that team would be almost unfairly good. Wade as your #3 option? Bosh as the #4? That would be quite an upgrade from Rashard Lewis.

[FerryFor50]

Yeah, Bosh is actually kind of a nerdy guy. He was very serious about computer science in high school, and has championed education since becoming famous. He seems like a genuinely good, down-to-earth, dude.



Of course you do. What Heat fan wouldn't want Anthony to join LeBron and take the pressure off of Wade? I'll be pretty surprised if it happens. Seems like they'd need a lot of moving parts to go right (including either Anthony taking chump change or all four guys opting out and taking substantially less money). But that team would be almost unfairly good. Wade as your #3 option? Bosh as the #4? That would be quite an upgrade from Rashard Lewis.

That team would be insane. But it would be Carmelo's best chance at a championship, provided he realizes that perhaps he isn't a guy that can carry a team to a title. That would require him to also realize that he needs to pass a little more.

[pfrduke]

Of course you do. What Heat fan wouldn't want Anthony to join LeBron and take the pressure off of Wade? I'll be pretty surprised if it happens. Seems like they'd need a lot of moving parts to go right (including either Anthony taking chump change or all four guys opting out and taking substantially less money). But that team would be almost unfairly good. Wade as your #3 option? Bosh as the #4? That would be quite an upgrade from Rashard Lewis.

Sort of - there are only so many shots to go around, so there's a law of diminishing returns in play. And Anthony doesn't address their needs as much as either a good point guard or a defensive center would. There's no question that Carmelo is a much better player than Rashard Lewis. But I'm not sure that as a four person unit James-Anthony-Wade-Bosh is that much better than James-Wade-Bosh-Lewis; better, sure, but not that much better. Put another way, I don't think that if the Heat traded Lewis for Anthony starting tonight that the Heat would be much more likely to win the series than they are with their current roster.

[Henderson]

That team would be insane. But it would be Carmelo's best chance at a championship, provided he realizes that perhaps he isn't a guy that can carry a team to a title. That would require him to also realize that he needs to pass a little more.

LaLa Anthony would LoLove LiLiving in South Beach. What about cap room, though? That's a lot of expensive talent for one team.

[CDu]

LaLa Anthony would LoLove LiLiving in South Beach. What about cap room, though? That's a lot of expensive talent for one team.

As I said, it would require either (a) Anthony opting out and then signing for a cap exception or (b) all four opting out and signing for substantially less money. Either is theoretically possible, but both seem a bit unlikely.

A more reasonable scenario would be the Bulls amnestying Boozer and trading a few guys for cap space and Anthony signing with the Bulls starting at around $15 million per year. Or a sign-and-trade with the Bulls involving Boozer and multiple draft picks.

I think a team with a healthy Rose, Noah, and Anthony would be a serious threat for a title. Especially if they're able to keep Gibson and Butler to play SG and backup big. That group might work as well as the James/Bosh/aging Wade/aging Allen/Anthony group given the way the skill sets mesh (as has been mentioned, the Heat would have too many guys who are best suited to have the ball in their hands, while the Bulls would be a perfect fit for a scorer who wants the ball in his hands). And he can get more money from the Bulls.

But, you just never know with these things.

As a Bulls fan, there have been many rumors of Anthony to the Bulls and some more recent rumors of a Kevin Love trade to the Bulls. I don't think either is "likely" at this point, but I'd call both of those as more likely than Anthony to the Heat.

[FerryFor50]

As I said, it would require either (a) Anthony opting out and then signing for a cap exception or (b) all four opting out and signing for substantially less money. Either is theoretically possible, but both seem a bit unlikely.

A more reasonable scenario would be the Bulls amnestying Boozer and trading a few guys for cap space and Anthony signing with the Bulls starting at around $15 million per year. Or a sign-and-trade with the Bulls involving Boozer and multiple draft picks.

I think a team with a healthy Rose, Noah, and Anthony would be a serious threat for a title. Especially if they're able to keep Gibson and Butler to play SG and backup big. That group might work as well as the James/Bosh/aging Wade/aging Allen/Anthony group given the way the skill sets mesh (as has been mentioned, the Heat would have too many guys who are best suited to have the ball in their hands, while the Bulls would be a perfect fit for a scorer who wants the ball in his hands). And he can get more money from the Bulls.

But, you just never know with these things.

As a Bulls fan, there have been many rumors of Anthony to the Bulls and some more recent rumors of a Kevin Love trade to the Bulls. I don't think either is "likely" at this point, but I'd call both of those as more likely than Anthony to the Heat.

I think Anthony to the Bulls makes more sense. Though, again, with Rose, are there enough touches to go around?

I wouldn't be shocked to see Boozer go to Miami once he's been amnestied, actually.

[CDu]

Sort of - there are only so many shots to go around, so there's a law of diminishing returns in play. And Anthony doesn't address their needs as much as either a good point guard or a defensive center would. There's no question that Carmelo is a much better player than Rashard Lewis. But I'm not sure that as a four person unit James-Anthony-Wade-Bosh is that much better than James-Wade-Bosh-Lewis; better, sure, but not that much better. Put another way, I don't think that if the Heat traded Lewis for Anthony starting tonight that the Heat would be much more likely to win the series than they are with their current roster.

I think Anthony makes them substantially better than Lewis. For one thing, he's a better defender at PF than Lewis. For another, he would demand even more defensive attention than Lewis. And he'd take even more pressure off of Wade and James as a playmaker. Right now, the Heat are relying on James to completely carry the offense, with Wade as the go-to guy whenever James sits. With Anthony, both James and Wade could effectively take many possessions off. That would make both more effective when they need to be.

There are definitely diminishing returns, but I don't think the returns diminish nearly as much as you suggest.


That team would be insane. But it would be Carmelo's best chance at a championship, provided he realizes that perhaps he isn't a guy that can carry a team to a title. That would require him to also realize that he needs to pass a little more.

See, I would say that Anthony could get away with passing even LESS with the Heat. James and Wade (mainly James) would still run the offense as they do now. But whenever they are tired and need to take possessions off, they ciould pass it to Anthony and let him try to score in iso sets. No need to pass in those scenarios. All shooting when he gets the ball; just less opportunities to get the ball.

[CDu]

I think Anthony to the Bulls makes more sense. Though, again, with Rose, are there enough touches to go around?

Sure. Remember: Anthony plays with J.R. Smith, who shoots about as much as Rose. :)

And of course, if touches are a concern, then Miami would be an even worse option.

But I think Anthony realizes that if he wants to win a title, he's going to have to go somewhere that requires him to get fewer touches/shots per game. So assuming he is willing to go elsewhere, I don't think touches will be a concern.

Regardless, Chicago has literally no other scoring options besides Rose. If Wade and James and Bosh can coexist, then I see no reason why Anthony and Rose couldn't.


I wouldn't be shocked to see Boozer go to Miami once he's been amnestied, actually.

I wouldn't either. However, teams with cap space get the first right to claim amnestied players. So only if all of the teams with cap space decline to claim him could Boozer go to the Heat. But yes, if Boozer clears waivers, I could absolutely see him going to Miami.

P.S. Mods - I wonder if maybe this discussion of Anthony should get moved to a new thread as it really isn't Finals-related.

[FerryFor50]

I wouldn't either. However, teams with cap space get the first right to claim amnestied players. So only if all of the teams with cap space decline to claim him could Boozer go to the Heat. But yes, if Boozer clears waivers, I could absolutely see him going to Miami.

I'd place money on every team passing on paying Boozer 12-15 mil a year. ;)

[CDu]

I'd place money on every team passing on paying Boozer 12-15 mil a year. ;)

They don't have to pay him $12-15 million per year. They just have to place the highest bid (i.e., anything above the minimum).

[Mabdul Doobakus]

If Anthony was willing to be the 6th man in Miami, I think it could actually work pretty great. I'm not sure if all 4 of those guys could fit on the floor at the same time (and as an aside...Big Four? Come on, that's just lazy...you have to at least start with the Fantastic Four, and see where you can take it from there...), but if you had Anthony coming off the bench there would be no reason for any of the Fantastic Four to go much over 30 min/game.

I don't know enough about the salary cap business to know if it could work. I have heard Bosh say he would take less money to stay in Miami. And Lebron just made about $30 million the other day when Beats by Dre was sold, so with that and all his endorsements, I'm not sure how much a few million in salary really means to the man any more. Supposedly, Wade is less apt to take a pay cut. Anyway, just stuff to comfort me if the Heat should lose tonight.

[CDu]

If Anthony was willing to be the 6th man in Miami, I think it could actually work pretty great. I'm not sure if all 4 of those guys could fit on the floor at the same time (and as an aside...Big Four? Come on, that's just lazy...you have to at least start with the Fantastic Four, and see where you can take it from there...), but if you had Anthony coming off the bench there would be no reason for any of the Fantastic Four to go much over 30 min/game.

I don't know enough about the salary cap business to know if it could work. I have heard Bosh say he would take less money to stay in Miami. And Lebron just made about $30 million the other day when Beats by Dre was sold, so with that and all his endorsements, I'm not sure how much a few million in salary really means to the man any more. Supposedly, Wade is less apt to take a pay cut. Anyway, just stuff to comfort me if the Heat should lose tonight.

I could certainly see LeBron taking the paycut because his salary is far from his biggest source of income. And I could see Bosh being willing as well, because he seems to be the most willing to sacrifice (he's already sacrificed his offensive role substantially). I agree that Wade is probably the least likely to take the pay cut, both due to ego and because he knows he's nearing the end of the line.

The only reason I could see James NOT doing it is if he thinks it will hurt his legacy. He definitely seems to have rabbit ears when it comes to discussion about him and his legacy. And if the Heat lose this year and then add Anthony, the questions will arise: "how great is LeBron really if he needs a 5th Hall of Famer to win these titles?"

And then there is Anthony. How big of a paycut is he willing to take, and how big of a reduction in role is he willing to take? He could go to Chicago and more or less have the same role as he has in New York (and make a lot more money doing it) and still be on a team that would be among the title favorites.

Again, anything is possible. I wouldn't completely rule out Anthony to Miami. But there would seem to be more straightforward (and less expensive) routes for Anthony than Miami, with Chicago seeming like the best fit.

[JasonEvans]

The size of the pay cuts the "Big 4" would have to take to make it work makes this very hard to imagine, I think. Lebron could do it because his NBA salary is almost small potatoes compared to his outside endorsement and other business income (he made $30 mil the other day from the sale of Beats) and Anthony does quite well in that arena as well, but Bosh and, to a lesser extent, Wade are not huge endorsers and may feel like asking them to take a 40% pay cut (from $20 mil down to about $12) is not something they can agree to.

It is also worth noting that Anthony is a TERRIBLE FIT for the Heat. The Heat need better PG play and a rim-protector. Anthony provides neither of those. They need some help on D at times and Anthony is notoriously a very poor defender. Now, if you were to tell me that the Heat were going to take pay cuts to bring in a free agent like Kyle Lowry, Marcin Gortat, or even Spencer Hawes, then I would say that made sense. But I do not get the value in having another guy who demands the ball in his hands on offense and does little more than score.

-Jason "I still think there is a decent change Lebron ends up somewhere other than Miami after this season" Evans

[CDu]

The size of the pay cuts the "Big 4" would have to take to make it work makes this very hard to imagine, I think. Lebron could do it because his NBA salary is almost small potatoes compared to his outside endorsement and other business income (he made $30 mil the other day from the sale of Beats) and Anthony does quite well in that arena as well, but Bosh and, to a lesser extent, Wade are not huge endorsers and may feel like asking them to take a 40% pay cut (from $20 mil down to about $12) is not something they can agree to.

It is also worth noting that Anthony is a TERRIBLE FIT for the Heat. The Heat need better PG play and a rim-protector. Anthony provides neither of those. They need some help on D at times and Anthony is notoriously a very poor defender. Now, if you were to tell me that the Heat were going to take pay cuts to bring in a free agent like Kyle Lowry, Marcin Gortat, or even Spencer Hawes, then I would say that made sense. But I do not get the value in having another guy who demands the ball in his hands on offense and does little more than score.

-Jason "I still think there is a decent change Lebron ends up somewhere other than Miami after this season" Evans

I definitely agree on your first paragraph and I tend to agree with your signature. But I don't completely agree on the second paragraph. While I agree that Anthony doesn't really help them defensively, I don't agree that he is a terrible fit. With Anthony, the Heat would simply be an offensive juggernaut capable of outscoring you for 4 quarters without letting up. Right now, whenever James has to sit, the Heat are extremely ordinary on offense. Wade is declining with age and injuries, so adding another elite scorer (especially one that can create his own shot) takes a ton of pressure off of James and Wade offensively. And while Anthony isn't great at defense, he certainly doesn't hurt them defensively compared to Rashard Lewis.

I also don't think PG is a huge need for the Heat. Yes, they don't have good PG play. But with James, they don't need a pure PG. They just need a guy who is a capable ballhandler and can shoot. And he doesn't have to be elite. He just needs to be adequate. They can find that type of guy for the minimum or an exception.

I also don't think that Gortat or Hawes fit the Heat's need for a rim protector. Neither is a great defensive player. Chris Andersen is more of a rim protector than those guys.

Ultimately, I think the reason that the Anthony to Heat thing won't happen is finances rather than fit.

[GGLC]

Boozer would be a fantastic sixth man for Portland if he's amnestied.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I won't say there's no chance Lebron leaves after this season, but he has another opt out opportunity after next season, and I'm much more worried about that one. I'm not sure there's a better opportunity out there for him, and he may not want to deal with the noise surrounding another change of scenery. Plus, Riley has shown the ability to creatively move pieces around, so Lebron should feel pretty comfortable that he'll be supported. The only problem is Wade, who at some point will present a bit of a sticky situation for Miami, as he's likely to want a bigger contract than he really merits at this point in his career. It's going to be interesting to see how that's handled both by Wade and the Heat organization.

[moonpie23]

the Heat need uncle drew....



yeah, i said it...

[gocanes0506]

I would say no if Ray Allen returns.

The heat need a PG and a post presence. Shaun Livingston or Spencer Hawes would be a good grab. Then use the first rounder to get a C or PG.

Anthony just brings a player who doesnt play defense very well and someone who needs to take a lot shots.

If Ray Allen retires then it may be ok as the heat need another shooter to help the spread offense.

[Henderson]

Rajon Rondo straight up for Shane Battier. Heat get the PG they need (and an attitude that fits South Beach). Boston gets some team leadership, experience, all the stuff Shane brings and enough salary savings to be even more flexible regarding trades than they already are. Rondo wouldn't be cheap, but he'd fill a need for Miami at the point. Take some pressure off Rondo to score too.

[Duvall]

Rajon Rondo straight up for Shane Battier. Heat get the PG they need (and an attitude that fits South Beach). Boston gets some team leadership, experience, all the stuff Shane brings and enough salary savings to be even more flexible regarding trades than they already are. Rondo wouldn't be cheap, but he'd fill a need for Miami at the point. Take some pressure off Rondo to score too.

Not sure Boston would get much out of that trade, though the salary savings would be considerable. Battier is retiring.

[JasonEvans]

Boozer would be a fantastic sixth man for Portland if he's amnestied.

If Boozer gets amnestied (and he is very likely to), it will mark yet another moment where the NBA's collective bargaining agreement almost seemed to be written with Carlos' benefit in mind. From his unusual free agency after just 2 years (which netted him a $10 mil 3rd year salary, more than the top two picks in the 2002 draft combined), to the deal the Bulls gave him in 2010 during the free agency frenzy of that year, to being amnestied and being able to make his Bulls salary plus several million more from another team...

Wow, just wow!

I mean, it is not impossible for Carlos to be one of the top 5 paid players in the NBA next year. He is owed $16.8 mil from the Bulls and you have to figure he signs with a new team for the at least the MLE of about $5 million, right? He's going to be well over $20 mil in NBA paychecks in 2014-15. Where will he fall on this list of 2014-15 salaries?

Kobe $23.5 mil
Amar'e $23.4 mil
Melo $23.3 mil
Joe Johnson $23.1 mil
Dwight $21.4 mil
Lebron $20.5 mil
Bosh $20.5 mil
Wade $20.1 mil
Chris Paul $20.0 mil
Deron Williams $19.7 mil
Rudy Gay $19.3 mil

-Jason "I know some of those players can opt out -- which could alter the list" Evans

[Henderson]

Battier is retiring.

Oops. Yep. My bad. Can someone who is pope, mayor of Detroit, U.S. Senator, and an honorary Chinese hero come out of retirement to save an NBA franchise?
.

[JasonEvans]

Rajon Rondo straight up for Shane Battier. Heat get the PG they need (and an attitude that fits South Beach). Boston gets some team leadership, experience, all the stuff Shane brings and enough salary savings to be even more flexible regarding trades than they already are. Rondo wouldn't be cheap, but he'd fill a need for Miami at the point. Take some pressure off Rondo to score too.

I'm just going to assume this was a joke post, right? Shane is already signed for next season... by ESPN.

-Jason

[CDu]

Rajon Rondo straight up for Shane Battier. Heat get the PG they need (and an attitude that fits South Beach). Boston gets some team leadership, experience, all the stuff Shane brings and enough salary savings to be even more flexible regarding trades than they already are. Rondo wouldn't be cheap, but he'd fill a need for Miami at the point. Take some pressure off Rondo to score too.

Aside from the fact that Battier is retiring, this deal isn't possible anyway. Rondo makes significantly more than Battier, and the Heat are well over the salary cap. So they'd have to include some other salaries to make it work because they can't take on more salary in a trade.

[FerryFor50]

Aside from the fact that Battier is retiring, this deal isn't possible anyway. Rondo makes significantly more than Battier, and the Heat are well over the salary cap. So they'd have to include some other salaries to make it work because they can't take on more salary in a trade.

Plus, Rondo has flat out said he hates the Heat and would never play for them:

http://tracking.si.com/2013/07/14/rajon-rondo-heat-celtics-miami-lebron-james-ray-allen/

[CDu]

If Boozer gets amnestied (and he is very likely to), it will mark yet another moment where the NBA's collective bargaining agreement almost seemed to be written with Carlos' benefit in mind. From his unusual free agency after just 2 years (which netted him a $10 mil 3rd year salary, more than the top two picks in the 2002 draft combined), to the deal the Bulls gave him in 2010 during the free agency frenzy of that year, to being amnestied and being able to make his Bulls salary plus several million more from another team...

Wow, just wow!

I mean, it is not impossible for Carlos to be one of the top 5 paid players in the NBA next year. He is owed $16.8 mil from the Bulls and you have to figure he signs with a new team for the at least the MLE of about $5 million, right? He's going to be well over $20 mil in NBA paychecks in 2014-15. Where will he fall on this list of 2014-15 salaries?

Kobe $23.5 mil
Amar'e $23.4 mil
Melo $23.3 mil
Joe Johnson $23.1 mil
Dwight $21.4 mil
Lebron $20.5 mil
Bosh $20.5 mil
Wade $20.1 mil
Chris Paul $20.0 mil
Deron Williams $19.7 mil
Rudy Gay $19.3 mil

-Jason "I know some of those players can opt out -- which could alter the list" Evans

I don't think that's how the amnesty works. With the amnesty, Boozer is a waived player. If a team claims Boozer (and only teams with cap space can claim him, so the MLE is off the table because you lose the MLE if you have cap space), then whatever the winning bid is comes out of what the Bulls have to pay him. So if a team has $2-3 million in cap space and bid $2 million, the Bulls pay Boozer the rest of his salary minus that $2 million.

If nobody with cap space claims Boozer, then he becomes a free agent. At that point, any team can sign him. However, teams that were over the cap and couldn't make a claim are limited to offering the veteran's minimum. The Bulls would then pay the full contract value, but Boozer would then also get the vet minimum.

So the most money Boozer would make would be like $18 million per year (his 2014-2015 salary plus the vet minimum). If he's claimed, he just makes his 2014-2015 salary and the Bulls get some salary relief.

[Billy Dat]

RE: Carmelo the scorer/swapping him for Lewis
After watching him game after game since he came to NY, I can say that he is, perhaps, the best scorer I have ever seen. He is lethal off the drive, on the block, from 3...he has the full arsenal. If you put him on Miami right now for Lewis, assuming he was already assimilated into the team and they knew how to play with him, I think they would roll over the Spurs.

RE: Point guard and rim protection
Lebron needs the ball in his hands for his game to be maximized. In that way, the traditional set the table point guard is not something that Miami needs to be successful. That brings me to the rim protection aspect. The NBA is a match-up league and Miami has redefined the need for rim protection by playing small. A team's needs are defined by the oppositions ability to exploit their weaknesses. It seems like Miami needs rim protection now because San Antonio is getting to the rim due to their ball movement and passing. But, fact is, if Miami had a shot blocker in the game, San Antonio would devise their offense to drag that shot blocker away from the basket one way or another (pick and rolls, spaced offense, whatever). It's similar to how San Antonio can't play Duncan and Splitter together because neither can guard Bosh away from the hoop.

As CDu said, with Anthony, Miami would be content to simply outscore everyone. Right now, they STINK when Lebron goes to the bench, largely because they can't score.

As for the Shane for Rondo trade, the money doesn't match up. The packages have to be roughly equal and the gap between their salaries is $7MM per year. At this point, Boston would have to arrange some kind of buy out with ESPN. Maybe Boston would throw in Tommy Heinsohn?

[CDu]

RE: Carmelo the scorer/swapping him for Lewis
After watching him game after game since he came to NY, I can say that he is, perhaps, the best scorer I have ever seen. He is lethal off the drive, on the block, from 3...he has the full arsenal. If you put him on Miami right now for Lewis, assuming he was already assimilated into the team and they knew how to play with him, I think they would roll over the Spurs.

RE: Point guard and rim protection
Lebron needs the ball in his hands for his game to be maximized. In that way, the traditional set the table point guard is not something that Miami needs to be successful. That brings me to the rim protection aspect. The NBA is a match-up league and Miami has redefined the need for rim protection by playing small. A team's needs are defined by the oppositions ability to exploit their weaknesses. It seems like Miami needs rim protection now because San Antonio is getting to the rim due to their ball movement and passing. But, fact is, if Miami had a shot blocker in the game, San Antonio would devise their offense to drag that shot blocker away from the basket one way or another (pick and rolls, spaced offense, whatever). It's similar to how San Antonio can't play Duncan and Splitter together because neither can guard Bosh away from the hoop.

As CDu said, with Anthony, Miami would be content to simply outscore everyone. Right now, they STINK when Lebron goes to the bench, largely because they can't score.

As for the Shane for Rondo trade, the money doesn't match up. The packages have to be roughly equal and the gap between their salaries is $7MM per year. At this point, Boston would have to arrange some kind of buy out with ESPN. Maybe Boston would throw in Tommy Heinsohn?

I can't give you any offline credit, so I'll acknowledge via reply. I completely agree. Especially with the first part about Anthony. As a pure scorer, he has the total package. He's a matchup nightmare: play a PF on him and he'll take you outside; play a SF on him and he'll post up; either way he can score efficiently. There isn't a team in the league that his acquisition wouldn't improve. As a Bulls fan, I hope (perhaps foolishly?) that he chooses Chicago for the added salary (relative to Miami) and opportunity to remain a lead dog while also playing for a completely legitimate contender. If I were a Heat fan, I'd be absolutely thrilled if he somehow came to Miami. There are just very few guys in this league that can score completely without the assistance of his teammates, and Anthony is way up there on the short list.

[FerryFor50]

I can't give you any offline credit, so I'll acknowledge via reply. I completely agree. Especially with the first part about Anthony. As a pure scorer, he has the total package. He's a matchup nightmare: play a PF on him and he'll take you outside; play a SF on him and he'll post up; either way he can score efficiently. There isn't a team in the league that his acquisition wouldn't improve. As a Bulls fan, I hope (perhaps foolishly?) that he chooses Chicago for the added salary (relative to Miami) and opportunity to remain a lead dog while also playing for a completely legitimate contender. If I were a Heat fan, I'd be absolutely thrilled if he somehow came to Miami. There are just very few guys in this league that can score completely without the assistance of his teammates, and Anthony is way up there on the short list.

He's also a capable defender and rebounder when he chooses to be. And despite his lack of passing, he's actually a pretty good passer. I assume his lack of passing has to do with this lack of confidence in teammates. On a team with LeBron James or Derrick Rose, I'd expect him to defer a bit more, as I assume he respects those guys.

[Billy Dat]

I can't give you any offline credit, so I'll acknowledge via reply. I completely agree. Especially with the first part about Anthony. As a pure scorer, he has the total package. He's a matchup nightmare: play a PF on him and he'll take you outside; play a SF on him and he'll post up; either way he can score efficiently. There isn't a team in the league that his acquisition wouldn't improve. As a Bulls fan, I hope (perhaps foolishly?) that he chooses Chicago for the added salary (relative to Miami) and opportunity to remain a lead dog while also playing for a completely legitimate contender. If I were a Heat fan, I'd be absolutely thrilled if he somehow came to Miami. There are just very few guys in this league that can score completely without the assistance of his teammates, and Anthony is way up there on the short list.

I forgot something, he is also MONEY on the break, always finishing and getting that and 1. One caveat is his high usage rate, it does seem like he is most effective at a high volume, he is one of those guys that gets rolling and need to keep the pump primed to keep rolling, but he needs shots to get rolling - although sometimes its the first shot of the game.

I liked your case for the Bulls. If anyone can get him to play some defense, its Thibs. He loves to play big minutes, too.

For ESPN insiders, Amin Elhassan just published a big piece on how the salaries might work for Melo to land in Miami, most scenarios cost each of the 4 between $35MM - $65MM depending on if their current team invoked their Bird rights to max them out...dats a lotta $$$$$$$$.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11070401/could-miami-heat-really-afford-big-four-nba


As for which guys would be willing to take the hit...it seems unanimous that Lebron would be willing based on his endorsement money. I have heard conflicting opinion on everyone else. I see this as a huge long shot because of the amount of $ involved. How often has any player turned his back on that kind of $? Has it ever happened?

[Kedsy]

As for which guys would be willing to take the hit...it seems unanimous that Lebron would be willing based on his endorsement money. I have heard conflicting opinion on everyone else. I see this as a huge long shot because of the amount of $ involved. How often has any player turned his back on that kind of $? Has it ever happened?

I have no idea what the answer is to this question, but what is Carmelo's reputation as a teammate? Do people like playing with him? No matter how good he is, this would come into play if you're asking players to take a pay cut to play with him.

As for usage, this past season, Melo's usage rate was 30.1%. LeBron's was 29.1% and Wade's was 26.1%. Has any team had three guys combine for 85+% usage? Is it possible to win playing 3 on 5? Alternatively, if the usage rate of one or more of the three guys was drastically reduced, would they be able to remain effective?

[CDu]

I have no idea what the answer is to this question, but what is Carmelo's reputation as a teammate? Do people like playing with him? No matter how good he is, this would come into play if you're asking players to take a pay cut to play with him.

As for usage, this past season, Melo's usage rate was 30.1%. LeBron's was 29.1% and Wade's was 26.1%. Has any team had three guys combine for 85+% usage? Is it possible to win playing 3 on 5? Alternatively, if the usage rate of one or more of the three guys was drastically reduced, would they be able to remain effective?

This is the main reason why I can't see Anthony going to the Heat. I think that teams can really only work with two alpha dogs on offense. The other three need to be complementary players. With the Heat, Wade would be the guy asked to become tertiary while Bosh's role would become like Rashard Lewis's role. I can't see Wade agreeing to that role. He seemed to only reluctantly hand over the reins to James. So I can't see him being willing to defer that much AND take a big salary hit to do so. And that would force Anthony to take a HUGE salary hit to make it happen.

[brevity]

I'm not sure if all 4 of those guys could fit on the floor at the same time (and as an aside...Big Four? Come on, that's just lazy...you have to at least start with the Fantastic Four, and see where you can take it from there...), but if you had Anthony coming off the bench there would be no reason for any of the Fantastic Four to go much over 30 min/game.

Fantastic Four, huh? A bit dangerous to give a Marvel label considering that Wade already has a DC nickname, and the James/Wade duo have a different DC nickname. But okay.

Mr. Fantastic: LeBron James
The Invisible Man (on defense): Carmelo Anthony
Human Torch: Dwyane Wade
The Thing: Chris Bosh

I think the first three are somewhat debatable, but I think we can all agree that Chris Bosh is The Thing.

[FerryFor50]

Fantastic Four, huh? A bit dangerous to give a Marvel label considering that Wade already has a DC nickname, and the James/Wade duo have a different DC nickname. But okay.

Mr. Fantastic: LeBron James
The Invisible Man (on defense): Carmelo Anthony
Human Torch: Dwyane Wade
The Thing: Chris Bosh

I think the first three are somewhat debatable, but I think we can all agree that Chris Bosh is The Thing.

Wouldn't the guy who looks the stretchiest be Mr. Fantastic?

And I'd put LeBron down as the Thing... he looks like he'd be the most likely to back up "it's clobberin' time!"

4164

[Mabdul Doobakus]

As for which guys would be willing to take the hit...it seems unanimous that Lebron would be willing based on his endorsement money. I have heard conflicting opinion on everyone else. I see this as a huge long shot because of the amount of $ involved. How often has any player turned his back on that kind of $? Has it ever happened?

Chris Bosh was on the LeBatard radio show in the last couple weeks, and they asked him straight up would he took less money to stay in Miami, and he said that he would. They even gave him a chance to kind of back away from that answer, but he didn't. I don't know how much less he would take, but he seems pretty clear on the idea that he would take less. Also, an important and often ignored advantage for Miami sports teams: no state income tax. That probably amounts to a difference of a million dollars or so, compared with most other teams.


Fantastic Four, huh? A bit dangerous to give a Marvel label considering that Wade already has a DC nickname, and the James/Wade duo have a different DC nickname. But okay.

I was unaware there would be potential DC vs. Marvel implications, but Wade has long disavowed that Flash nickname. What's the James/Wade duo nick? Wade has had so many nicknames its hard to keep track.

[CDu]

Chris Bosh was on the LeBatard radio show in the last couple weeks, and they asked him straight up would he took less money to stay in Miami, and he said that he would. They even gave him a chance to kind of back away from that answer, but he didn't. I don't know how much less he would take, but he seems pretty clear on the idea that he would take less. Also, an important and often ignored advantage for Miami sports teams: no state income tax. That probably amounts to a difference of a million dollars or so, compared with most other teams.



I was unaware there would be potential DC vs. Marvel implications, but Wade has long disavowed that Flash nickname. What's the James/Wade duo nick? Wade has had so many nicknames its hard to keep track.

The cap is supposed to be around $63 million next year. The Heat will have either $8.5 million or $12.5 million on the books (including cap holds for empty roster spots) depending upon whether Haslem exercises his player option. Let's assume he doesn't do so. That means the Heat would have $55 million in space (if my math is right).

James, Wade, Anthony, and Bosh are scheduled to make over $20 million next year. So they would each have to leave at least $7 million per year to make it work. And they would have to fill the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys (no exceptions). And if anyone doesn't buy in, it gets worse for the others.

If Haslem doesn't opt out, subtract another million from those guys' salaries.

[brevity]

I was unaware there would be potential DC vs. Marvel implications, but Wade has long disavowed that Flash nickname. What's the James/Wade duo nick? Wade has had so many nicknames its hard to keep track.

Batman/Robin. I think people are still writing about Wade's willingness to become a second banana.


Wouldn't the guy who looks the stretchiest be Mr. Fantastic?

And I'd put LeBron down as the Thing... he looks like he'd be the most likely to back up "it's clobberin' time!"

4164

Fair points. Chris Bosh has the (comparative) size and sense of humor to be The Thing. But he is lanky, and LeBron is built like he's made of rock.

[Billy Dat]

I have no idea what the answer is to this question, but what is Carmelo's reputation as a teammate? Do people like playing with him? No matter how good he is, this would come into play if you're asking players to take a pay cut to play with him.

He certainly comes off as a bit of a prima donna. I googled "is melo a good teammate" and the only things coming up were discussions with a former teammate who thinks Melo will leave NY. As far as being a leader, I found some stuff that said he's tried to help guys out and was becoming more of a distributor, but I don't really see it. I think he's better off as the gunslinger offensive machine who leaves the pep talks and captain-style leadership to someone else.

[CDu]

He certainly comes off as a bit of a prima donna. I googled "is melo a good teammate" and the only things coming up were discussions with a former teammate who thinks Melo will leave NY. As far as being a leader, I found some stuff that said he's tried to help guys out and was becoming more of a distributor, but I don't really see it. I think he's better off as the gunslinger offensive machine who leaves the pep talks and captain-style leadership to someone else.

That sounds about right. He isn't going to lead a team to a title. But as the #2-3 guy in the leadership order and playing the role of key offensive weapon, I could see him thriving.

[greybeard]

Three way: Melo to Miami, Bosh to OKC, Durant to Fish. The rest of the deal, Jackson will do what he must.

Bosh might want out, not such that he is really dissatisfied, just that he is tired; tired of the city, tired being criticized for not performing as part of the triumvirate when he is not; and perhaps tired of the public persona of Lebron-D.Wade which eclipses all else. The quiet environment might be attractive for Bosh the family man and for the relief from the pressure pot that is Miami. Westbrook, not just OKC, will need him to score and his persona might cause Westbrook to see a bite of what is rewarding about coherent offense and buy into a lttle of it, especially with Bosh's array of talents that support clever play and to go with percentage scoring that does not put the pressure on Westbrook's game that Durant's does.

Although like brothers, both might see the value of parting ways, Westbrook for the reasons just stated, and Durant for the chance to play for Fish, with Jackson's counsel available.

OKC, which has good reason to believe that Durant might leave as soon as he can, might see a deal for Bosh tremendously appealing, OKC might see the deal as value added; Jackson and Riley might need to figure out between them who needs to do what to make the deal more attractive to OKC's fan base, if not to give OKC the added value it probably will demands.

From Miami's point of view, the deal is compelling. LeBron needs fewer minutes. That, to me, is a must. Wade can't give him them, not anymore. With Wade's having maybe one more season when he plays close to an elite level a fair amount, time is short. Very. Wade might even be willing to take a buy out and retire because his body cannot take it as part of a Melo deal. But, LeBron and James have the same games. Wade's and LeBron's overlapped considerably also, LeBron and Melo have known and competed, were the top of the top since way before they finished high school, they were actually part of a triumvirate that ruled the high/prep school elites and seemed from a documentary to have long been friends, and both have played together under K. Bringing in another power forward with bigger size than Melo to back him up should be no problem.

Just saying.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Three way: Melo to Miami, Bosh to OKC, Durant to Fish. The rest of the deal, Jackson will do what he must.

Bosh might want out...

He DEFINITELY does not want out. He has been very clear on this. He would like to retire in Miami. Not to say he couldn't be traded, but it's not something he'd be seeking.

As for whether Bosh or Melo is a better fit for Miami, you could argue back and forth. I haven't really seen Melo play in about 2 years, so I don't feel fit to comment.

EDIT: Here's an article talking about the LeBatard interview I referenced earlier:

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/10996121/chris-bosh-potential-free-agent-says-intends-remain-miami-heat

"I don't want to go anywhere. I like it here. It's Miami," Bosh said. "Everybody wants to come here. Yeah." (I feel like they could have left that "Yeah." out, but then again, I'm no editor.)

[CDu]

Three way: Melo to Miami, Bosh to OKC, Durant to Fish. The rest of the deal, Jackson will do what he must.

Bosh might want out, not such that he is really dissatisfied, just that he is tired; tired of the city, tired being criticized for not performing as part of the triumvirate when he is not; and perhaps tired of the public persona of Lebron-D.Wade which eclipses all else. The quiet environment might be attractive for Bosh the family man and for the relief from the pressure pot that is Miami. Westbrook, not just OKC, will need him to score and his persona might cause Westbrook to see a bite of what is rewarding about coherent offense and buy into a lttle of it, especially with Bosh's array of talents that support clever play and to go with percentage scoring that does not put the pressure on Westbrook's game that Durant's does.

Although like brothers, both might see the value of parting ways, Westbrook for the reasons just stated, and Durant for the chance to play for Fish, with Jackson's counsel available.

OKC, which has good reason to believe that Durant might leave as soon as he can, might see a deal for Bosh tremendously appealing, OKC might see the deal as value added; Jackson and Riley might need to figure out between them who needs to do what to make the deal more attractive to OKC's fan base, if not to give OKC the added value it probably will demands.

From Miami's point of view, the deal is compelling. LeBron needs fewer minutes. That, to me, is a must. Wade can't give him them, not anymore. With Wade's having maybe one more season when he plays close to an elite level a fair amount, time is short. Very. Wade might even be willing to take a buy out and retire because his body cannot take it as part of a Melo deal. But, LeBron and James have the same games. Wade's and LeBron's overlapped considerably also, LeBron and Melo have known and competed, were the top of the top since way before they finished high school, they were actually part of a triumvirate that ruled the high/prep school elites and seemed from a documentary to have long been friends, and both have played together under K. Bringing in another power forward with bigger size than Melo to back him up should be no problem.

Just saying.

No way OKC does that deal. They could do better than an aging Bosh. Also, I don't the the finances would work anyway. But the more important thing is that OKC does not have the slightest interest in such a deal.

[greybeard]

Off the top of my head. Terrific explanation as to why not.

[CDu]

Off the top of my head. Terrific explanation as to why not.

To be fair, I certainly wouldn't rule out OKC trading Durant. So your logic for OKC trading Durant is completely reasonable. I just think it will not be for a guy like Bosh who is overpaid, nearing free agency, and nearing the end of his career.

[greybeard]

No way OKC does that deal. They could do better than an aging Bosh. Also, I don't the the finances would work anyway. But the more important thing is that OKC does not have the slightest interest in such a deal.

What if the Knicks kicked Bragnani to OKC and Miami its No. 1. If concerned about losing Durant when he is free (two seasons?), then does this make attractive enough package as compares to other potential ones, or even, if Durant would be amenable to trade to NY, would OKC want to hold on to see if Durant decided to stay.

Might be silly "what if" game to play.

[CDu]

What if the Knicks kicked Bragnani to OKC and Miami its No. 1. If concerned about losing Durant when he is free (two seasons?), then does this make attractive enough package as compares to other potential ones, or even, if Durant would be amenable to trade to NY, would OKC want to hold on to see if Durant decided to stay.

Might be silly "what if" game to play.

Bargnani is one of the least valuable players in the league. He doesn't defend, doesn't rebound, and doesn't score at all efficiently. I would rather have Bosh alone than Bosh and Bargnani. So I don't see this getting closer to a deal.