Oh Jay Bilas... come on now... have some integrity.

[Lord Ash]

What on earth...

http://chapelboro.com/news/unc/jay-bilas-believe-roy-williams/

Okay... I just don't understand. Does Jay REALLY think that the head coach of one of the biggest and most valuable programs in the nation doesn't know that his players are benefiting from a huge and corrupt system? Does he REALLY think they were all just AFAM majors by accident, and that they were going from Fs to As instantly? Does he REALLY believe Roy when Roy says he isn't in the classroom so he doesn't REALLY know, but nothing happened? Does he REALLY believe that all those players sitting behind Roy who won't talk on camera and who won the 2005 title after taking something like 52 fake classes were on the up-and-up and Roy didn't know? The same Roy who brought over Wayne Walden, who Roy said was essential to his program and who suddenly disappeared off the map once it seemed the gig might be up?

I am a bit stunned that Jay Bilas would say this when no one with an ounce of intelligence would possibly believe that somehow this work of rogue chancellors and agents and athletes and athletic directors and tutors and department chairs somehow went unknown the head coach of the team, who is the final authority of that team short of the AD.

I am a big Jay fan, but holy cow, at this point I am stunned at what seems to be a real lack of integrity in his willingness to swallow this nonsense, and his apparent unwillingness, as a sports reporter, to look into the issue at all.

Blech.

[Duvall]

I am a big Jay fan, but holy cow, at this point I am stunned at what seems to be a real lack of integrity in his willingness to swallow this nonsense, and his apparent unwillingness, as a sports reporter, to look into the issue at all.


Bilas isn't a sports reporter, he's a sports personality. His job is not to uncover news stories, it's to promote the brands that make up ESPN's programming. Expecting him to look into an issue would be like expecting one of his costumed Disney co-workers to talk to visitors about the working conditions at Disneyland.

[Lord Ash]

Hm. Okay, I suppose I always thought of him as a reporter. I guess as a "talking head" it is less likely he'll be honest.

Just blows me away. I would hope that someone who played for K would be a big believer in honesty and things being done the right way. It is clear that is not what happened at UNC, and the idea that the head coach, who is like a god when it comes to programs, would be ignorant of an athletic/academic scheme that permeated every level of the organization (including into the very building Roy's office is in) is just mindblowing.

*sigh*

[BigWayne]

August 2012:

“No question about it,’’ Williams told “The Drive.” “Our track record is pretty doggone good. And our track record has been pretty doggone good for 15 years at Kansas, nine years at North Carolina. And we know how much we emphasize the academic side in the basketball office. We know what our guys are majoring in. We know -- every day we’re in touch with those kids. So it’s something, again, that I’m very proud of.

http://espn.go.com/blog/north-carolina-basketball/post/_/id/9068/uncs-williams-bothered-by-afam-scandal

So which is it Roy? You track them every day or you are totally in the dark?

[cato]

Jay Bilas is also a human being, and a member of a very select fraternity. He probably honestly admires Roy Williams, and thinks less highly of McCants. Many people in that situation tend to give the benefit of the doubt to their well-respected buddy instead of the possibly disgruntled outsider.

That said, I'm disappointed that Jay isn't being a little more skeptical of the UNC stuff after all of his talk about schools exploiting players. He doesn't have to bury UNC, but why add his voice/personality to support Roy when he doesn't know any better what happened than you or I?

[OldPhiKap]

Jay is a smart guy and is entitled to his opinion. No reason to hate on him for that.

And again, the issue of whether Roy knew or not is secondary. Did someone, anyone switch the timing of Rashad's classes? If so, he was academically ineligible and the games won thereafter (including the NC) should be vacated. Alternatively, if no one did this and Rashad is wrong, it's the end of the story.

The key here is a very focused inquiry, and one that is provably true or false.

[Edouble]

Jay Bilas is a Duke guy.

Any whistle-blowing he does with regard to UNC will not be taken seriously.

I don't think that if he shows skepticism, or if he asks the players backing up Roy to show their transcripts that the masses will follow and up the pressure. In fact, I think people would just see it as a Duke guy taking a cut at the UNC program. It would probably just be another ingredient to throw into the pot of distractions that UNC has been cooking up.

[johnb]

Jay Bilas is also a human being, and a member of a very select fraternity. He probably honestly admires Roy Williams, and thinks less highly of McCants. Many people in that situation tend to give the benefit of the doubt to their well-respected buddy instead of the possibly disgruntled outsider.

That said, I'm disappointed that Jay isn't being a little more skeptical of the UNC stuff after all of his talk about schools exploiting players. He doesn't have to bury UNC, but why add his voice/personality to support Roy when he doesn't know any better what happened than you or I?

If McCants was essentially gone for that spring semester after having decided to to go pro, then how did he make 4 A's? It boggles the mind that any bright observer wouldn't think something wasn't going on--and that the coaching staff had to know.

I think you have it right that Jay is a member of a select fraternity--and has been since the late 1970's when he was being identified as an elite player. He has always seemed likable and is obviously sharp, but on this issue, he seems to have a blindspot. And perhaps that blindspot relates to the extent to which elite athletes are afforded all sorts of privileges that aren't even on the horizon for the rest of us. Perhaps it's the price we pay for having the NCAA function as a semi-pro farm system, but it does remind me that dozens of Duke-related players and coaches have banked millions of dollars and have gotten many perks for being elite athletes. And Jay is one of the more visible examples.

[lotusland]

Jay is a smart guy and is entitled to his opinion. No reason to hate on him for that.

And again, the issue of whether Roy knew or not is secondary. Did someone, anyone switch the timing of Rashad's classes? If so, he was academically ineligible and the games won thereafter (including the NC) should be vacated. Alternatively, if no one did this and Rashad is wrong, it's the end of the story.

The key here is a very focused inquiry, and one that is provably true or false.

Yes Jay is a smart guy entitled to his opinion. No one expects him to be a total Duke homer but he just tries a little to hard. IC is full of praise for Jay and he get's much kudos on Cat's pause too. It seems if you are a UK or Tar Heel fan every media personality other than Jay Bilas is jealously conspiring to take down your program. Fortunately Jay is always there to provide the real truth about those 2 hallowed programs.

Sorry but if UK fans consider you the paragon of truth and impartiality you're just trying to hard not to be a Dukie.

[Henderson]

And again, the issue of whether Roy knew or not is secondary.

Secondary yes. But still important. UNC's institutional integrity is at stake with possible NCAA action (ha ha), but Roy's personal situation is under scrutiny too. Roy could go down, and/or the university could be sanctioned. Either would sit well with me, and I'm hoping for both.

Jay's entitled to his opinion regarding his friend's truthfulness. OK, great Jay. But as cato pointed out, he doesn't know more than any of us do, so what is that opinion worth? More in the public eye, because he's Jay Bilas. And he knows that. That bugs me.

Jay (whom I like a lot as a basketball commentator) may be wiping some egg off his face later, muttering about the importance of standing up for friends.

I know he's a "commentator" and not a "reporter" so the guidelines regarding objectivity are a little different. But can you imagine the hubbub if he had come out saying, "I don't believe Roy"? People would be attacking his journalistic integrity, not championing his right to his opinion.

[johnb]

S... But can you imagine the hubbub if he had come out saying, "I don't believe Roy"? People would be attacking his journalistic integrity, not championing his right to his opinion.

I'm sure Bilas knows of plenty of coaches who are problematic, and--like all the rest of the sports personalities--he is quite discrete. If Jay didn't believe Roy, he'd keep his opinion to himself.

Saying he DOES believe Roy may just mean, "Roy's my friend, and he has never lied to me, and I back my friends." Given the stakes (compromised educations and institutional lack of control) and the almost impossible contortion of logic for Roy to truly not have seen what was going on, it makes me think Jay messed up. Not so much in regards to tactics but in regards to understanding what should be going into the role of the coaching staff and university administration. And maybe that's a philosophical difference: Jay is a professional/rich athlete, and we're not.

And I again focus on the adults. Yeah, sure, guys like McCants know they're doing something wrong, but they entered the university basically unable to do the work. Sure, a small fraction of guys (athletes or not) are able to step up and overcome such obstacles, but it's not much different from inserting the average Duke humanities major into a med-level physical chemistry class at Caltech while working and traveling as part of a near-professional sports team. And failure isn't just inconvenient but humiliating and a slap at your team which needs your skills. Under those circumstances, a few laughably easy courses would be a nice break from a schedule of classes that might be hard to pass even without the sports responsibilities. I say this, again, not to completely excuse guys like McCants, but I don't think it's as straightforward as their wanting to laze around.

[arnie]

If McCants was essentially gone for that spring semester after having decided to to go pro, then how did he make 4 A's? It boggles the mind that any bright observer wouldn't think something wasn't going on--and that the coaching staff had to know.

I think you have it right that Jay is a member of a select fraternity--and has been since the late 1970's when he was being identified as an elite player. He has always seemed likable and is obviously sharp, but on this issue, he seems to have a blindspot. And perhaps that blindspot relates to the extent to which elite athletes are afforded all sorts of privileges that aren't even on the horizon for the rest of us. Perhaps it's the price we pay for having the NCAA function as a semi-pro farm system, but it does remind me that dozens of Duke-related players and coaches have banked millions of dollars and have gotten many perks for being elite athletes. And Jay is one of the more visible examples.

Great summation. Jay is all about paying athletes and NCAA corruption- all else must be trivial to him.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I generally like Bilas and recognize him as smart, though at times too impressed with himself and in love with his own arguments. Obviously, he has had a personal relationship with Ole Roy for a long time and probably wants to believe Roy, and may see a potential common enemy in the NCAA. But, Art Chansky couldn't have done a softer puff piece. A journalist would at least have asked some real questions like:

McCants' transcript shows that in 2004 and 2005 he had a 3.8 GPA in 9 AFAM/SWAH classes and a 0.5 GPA in 4 other classes. Did that not seem odd?

Julius Peppers' transcript looked very similar. Did that not seem odd?

Nine players on the 05 team majored in AFAM. Did you notice that? Do you notice any similar general pattern in their transcripts?

UNC has found X number of fraudulent classes in the AFAM department. Did you notice that your players were enrolled in a large number of classes that never met?

You've said before that you know what your players are majoring in, if they're going to class, and what their grades are. Is that accurate or not? If yes, how did you not notice and what did you do about it? If no, do you not care and isn't that part of your job?

Sean May has said he switched majors so he would not have to go to class as much. Did you discuss that with him?

Emails show the academic support for athletes directly asked the AFAM department head to add classes and expressed frustration when some fraternity members learned of the classes availability. Did you have any knowledge of that?

Why do you think your APR score has declined significantly since the AFAM department has changed? If Hairston hadn't finished the semester before being banned, couldn't UNC be on academic probation? Did you need Graves to come back? What did he pay to live in your house, and what did he do to be paid by the athletic department?

Car rental and parking ticket records show that P.J. Hairston and Leslie McDonald drove a series of rental cars that he parked at the UNC athletic facilities. Did you never notice that?

When you were at Kansas, DeShawn Stevenson traveled from California to North Carolina to re-take the SAT and his score improved by 700 points. Did you not find that odd?

Etc. Instead, not one leading question. He was like an attorney asking leading softball questions to his own client.

[Reilly]

Jay is nothing if not rational. You really think he's going to criticize a man who publicly expresses a desire to shoot those he does not like in the behind with a BB gun?

One minute you're sharing a good cry with the masseuse, and the next you're hunting behind, just another day in the life ...

[gumbomoop]

Without tag-quoting Duke79UNLV77's superb post #13 above ^, I think the title of that post -- "definitely not a journalist this time" -- is spot on.

Anyone -- whatever your view of JB's work as analyst, commentator, NCAA critic -- disagree with 79-77's post title? Anyone?

[DevilHorse]

JB is not detached from the UNC situation.

If I recall correctly, he spent several years sitting next to Hubert Davis at the ESPN studios. They hit it off on-screen pretty well.
I imagine that Jay could on one hand:

- consider getting inside information from Hubert, if he were to desire to be more of a reporter, but on the other hand,
- have an interest in not seeing his friend's job be emperiled by asking too many questions on things that will come out anyway

A lawyer might keep his microphone outside the "Police tape", ask the usual questions, and not use his best resources. I don't see Jay burning bridges, or applying much heat, to get to the heart of this story.

Larry
DevilHorse

[Faison1]

Without tag-quoting Duke79UNLV77's superb post #13 above ^, I think the title of that post -- "definitely not a journalist this time" -- is spot on.

Anyone -- whatever your view of JB's work as analyst, commentator, NCAA critic -- disagree with 79-77's post title? Anyone?

Without a doubt, Jay did this as a fan and a friend. Not as a serious journalist. 79-77's post is excellent, and I totally agree with everything he's written.

I'm not happy Jay pulled this stunt, but at the same time, I am going to assume Jay is putting friendship above everything else in this situation. That's the only way I can continue to respect him.

[Wander]

Great summation. Jay is all about paying athletes and NCAA corruption- all else must be trivial to him.

Yeah, the problem is this whole UNC mess doesn't neatly fit into his narrative about college athletes supposedly being treated unfairly. Maybe if the other UNC players hadn't come out in support of Roy, his take would be different.

This goes to the heart of the problem with ESPN - like cable news networks, they're attempting a troublesome blend of information with entertainment. Honestly, I think Jay's employment there detracts a lot from his messages regarding the NCAA and athletes. Bilas is a smart guy and a good basketball analyst, but that's not the same thing as being a good journalist, and we need to be skeptical of any journalism that comes from ESPN in general.

[Duvall]

Without tag-quoting Duke79UNLV77's superb post #13 above ^, I think the title of that post -- "definitely not a journalist this time" -- is spot on.

Anyone -- whatever your view of JB's work as analyst, commentator, NCAA critic -- disagree with 79-77's post title? Anyone?

Well, I disagree with the "this time." I don't think Bilas *ever* works as a journalist - he's an entertainer, reading copy to push the narratives and counter-narratives ESPN has selected for that day.

[alteran]

Great summation. Jay is all about paying athletes and NCAA corruption- all else must be trivial to him.

That's what so irritating about this. This is right in his wheelhouse.

Athletes are being exploited. The NCAA is burying and ignoring corruption. The big school is getting away with it.

Jay harangued the NCAA at length for something much less than what he's giving UNC a puff piece and cover for. Hell, UNC could actually face real consequences for what they've done with some actual journalism here.

Clearly Jay won't be doing that journalism. The only thing that surprises me is that I'm surprised.

I eagerly await Jay's next series of hard-hitting tweets over a t-shirt.

[jv001]

That's what so irritating about this. This is right in his wheelhouse.

Athletes are being exploited. The NCAA is burying and ignoring corruption. The big school is getting away with it.

Jay harangued the NCAA at length for something much less than what he's giving UNC a puff piece and cover for. Hell, UNC could actually face real consequences for what they've done with some actual journalism here.

Clearly Jay won't be doing that journalism. The only thing that surprises me is that I'm surprised.

I eagerly await Jay's next series of hard-hitting tweets over a t-shirt.

I'm eagerly awaiting Jay's post on the subject. He's been quick to defend himself on other occasions that were far less important than this one. I like Jay and look forward to his response here. GoDuke!

[OldPhiKap]

At the risk of continuing to swim upstream, it may just be as simple as -- Jay believes Roy.

Lots of people do, outside of Duke and Wolfpack fan sites. Although I find it hard to believe, I am self-aware enough to recognize that I am in no way, shape or form impartial. I want those banners to come down for the lying, cheating so-and-so's that I have loathed for over 30 years now. So rather than attack a different view, I am more prone to simply file it away and move on.

I don't get the slams on Jay every time he does something other than the pro-Duke line. Does he go out of his way to show that he is not a homer? Probably. But if he is going to be a national reporter, he has to show independence. It's why Len Elmore sucks -- he cannot lose his Twerp.


Anyway -- bash on.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

If Roy is telling the truth and McCants is lying, why isn't McCants being sued for slander? Those would be mighty big whoppers he told, bless his heart.
Love, Ima

[OldPhiKap]

If Roy is telling the truth and McCants is lying, why isn't McCants being sued for slander? Those would be mighty big whoppers he told, bless his heart.
Love, Ima

There are folks on IC who think that Roy and UNC should do exactly that.

And, if they do so, I will buy the popcorn for the streaming party.

[Lord Ash]

Listen, maybe the title is too harsh. Maybe Jay honestly does think Roy had no idea about this massive cheating scheme that has been going on for years and years and had permeated almost every level of both athletics and academics.

I don't know Roy Williams personally, and he might be in many ways a lovely man.

But I just don't understand how you can read Williams' own quotes from over the years, how you can look at how important Wayne Walden was, and how the cheating was so widespread and important and really and truly believe a head coach and a bunch of players who took those paper and sometimes non-existent classes over a star player who straight up admitted it was cheating, after several other players admitted the same thing and we have emails and...

I just don't understand how anyone could really believe Williams, unless they know Roy and just WANT to believe him.

Either that, or the person just doesn't want to make waves.




If this sort of thing was happening at Duke, does anyone think K wouldn't know? I would doubt that. I guess there could be some system to preserve deniability, but...

And it kills me that THIS is Jay's only comment on the situation. But maybe that's a problem with ALL the talking heads at ESPN... As a former student athlete myself, I just don't get why more people aren't pissed, including other student athletes who I KNOW went to class AND played a sport.

[COYS]

Listen, maybe the title is too harsh. Maybe Jay honestly does think Roy had no idea about this massive cheating scheme that has been going on for years and years and had permeated almost every level of both athletics and academics.

I don't know Roy Williams personally, and he might be in many ways a lovely man.

But I just don't understand how you can read Williams' own quotes from over the years, how you can look at how important Wayne Walden was, and how the cheating was so widespread and important and really and truly believe a head coach and a bunch of players who took those paper and sometimes non-existent classes over a star player who straight up admitted it was cheating, after several other players admitted the same thing and we have emails and...

I just don't understand how anyone could really believe Williams, unless they know Roy and just WANT to believe him.

Either that, or the person just doesn't want to make waves.




If this sort of thing was happening at Duke, does anyone think K wouldn't know? I would doubt that. I guess there could be some system to preserve deniability, but...

And it kills me that THIS is Jay's only comment on the situation. But maybe that's a problem with ALL the talking heads at ESPN... As a former student athlete myself, I just don't get why more people aren't pissed, including other student athletes who I KNOW went to class AND played a sport.

Taken on a personal level or in a vacuum, what Jay said is more or less meaningless and certainly well within his rights. On a broader scale, though, I do question his judgement a little. As has already been stated, Jay seems to have made these comments without doing any of his own research. He has essentially stuck his neck out on the belief that Roy Williams would never do such a thing. I'll be quite honest, a few years ago I truly believed that UNC was second only to Duke as the least likely place among the blue-bloods for something like this to take place. Even as the evidence started to come out, I was still skeptical that UNC's basketball program was so deeply involved. At this point, however, anyone who does a lot of research must at least reach the conclusion that there was SOMETHING unsavory going on and, as the face of the program and the defacto leader, Roy Williams SHOULD have known something, whether he did or not. And, to bring it back to the broader perspective I was talking about, Jay is basically saying that Willingham and McCants are making all this up. To me, that's essentially picking on the little people (if you can consider McCants one of the "little people"). At the very least, Willingham qualifies as a "little person" who has been absolutely stomped on by the big bad powerhouse university. While Jay may be doing this out of loyalty to a friend, the flipside is that it provides more evidence (even though Jay did no research for the article) for people to try and crush the whistle blowers. I get that McCants isn't a sympathetic character. However, there has been very little to suggest that Willingham had anything to gain by coming out with her information. In fact, she's already lost her job. Her life is probably not ruined, or anything like that, but still, she's in a vulnerable position and people like Jay have the power to make their situation worse, however unintentionally. In Jay's case, he directly attacks her credibility based solely on the fact that he finds her claims unlikely because . . . well . . . because Roy is a man of integrity and that, from a distance, it doesn't seem like she should have access to that information. Worse yet, he hasn't even spoken with her, as far as we know. Nor has he spoken with McCants.

So, I guess I don't have a problem with Jay expressing his opinion. However, I do question his judgement in expressing an opinion that calls out people who have little to no way of defending their integrity.

P.S. Wouldn't it be cool if this were all part of an elaborate plan to make everyone think Jay is absolutely certain that nothing bad happened when, in reality, he's been working on an exhaustive report that will truly blow the lid off of the scandal? A guy can dream.

[greybeard]

Bilas isn't a sports reporter, he's a sports personality. His job is not to uncover news stories, it's to promote the brands that make up ESPN's programming. Expecting him to look into an issue would be like expecting one of his costumed Disney co-workers to talk to visitors about the working conditions at Disneyland.

Alas, a bright spot of alacrity. Couldn't have said it better. Just ask anyone.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Now maybe there are privacy laws that prevent it, but I thought that the coaches all knew what classes their scholarship players were taking and how they were doing. So I have trouble with this:

“The idea, somehow, that a coach—especially when you go back to 2005—would know about the players’ choices in classes and electives when they’re juniors, I don’t believe that’s the case, and I believe Roy Williams.”

My understanding was that they would know.

I have read that athletes at other schools were steered to certain classes and profs. Who does the steering? Why did so many UNC athletes show up the Afro/American studies classes?

I think Jay likes and respects Roy and just does not want to believe the truth.

SoCal

[Indoor66]

All I can say it that if Roy did not know what was going on he is monumentally stupid. NO ONE could run an organization as small and compact as a basketball program and not be aware of what is going on in the academic and other aspects of the lives of the fifteen or so people who make the program go. It is ridiculous to argue otherwise. I do not give Jay or anyone else a pass on this issue.

[ncexnyc]

Alas, a bright spot of alacrity. Couldn't have said it better. Just ask anyone.
Is that really you greybeard? Just three short sentences? Say it isn't so.

Now I have absolutely no problem with Jay tossing softballed sized questions for Roy to hack away at. However, what I find disturbing is that a highly intelligent person like Jay could look at the facts and say Roy is telling the truth. Nobody in the UNC camp has denied or discredited the transcript. A transcript which clearly fits the narrative put forth by the people attacking UNC's credibility.

Upstream someone mentioned that Jay may end up wiping some egg off his face. Wasn't Jay and Dickie V. part of the, "Free P.J." crowd, who firmly shallowed UNC's line that it was the NCAA who was drawing out that situation. A situation which we later learned was drawn out not by the NCAA, but rather UNC, who never sought to have P.J. reinstated. Seems like Jay likes egg facials.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Just sayin'.
Love, Ima

[miramar]

But UNC is saying that they need time to investigate the allegations. This keeps getting more and more interesting by the minute.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/06/10/3926117/unc-leadership-calls-for-patience.html?sp=/99/103/

[Newton_14]

But UNC is saying that they need time to investigate the allegations. This keeps getting more and more interesting by the minute.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/06/10/3926117/unc-leadership-calls-for-patience.html?sp=/99/103/

Agree on the whole (especially the McCants saga) but when reading this particular article just now, it was like a deja vu moment... like I have read that exact same article 30 or 40 times since that first Marvin Austin tweet.... UNC reps have been repeating the same song and dance ad nauseam for this entire time. "We need to time to investigate before we can respond and act. Please be patient as we sort through this. The University has a proud history of doing things the right way" yada yada yada

Speaking of that infamous tweet, I have never met Adam Gold (seems like a nice guy, and after listening for years I would actuallly like to meet him), but if I am so lucky, I know exactly what I will ask him first. "Do you remember the caller named "Craig" that you dismissed as soon as he got his question out, and then quickly went to a new caller?"

Shortly after the Football Scandal blew up in that summer leading up to the LSU game, I happened to be listening to Adam's show one morning when a regular caller who I am pretty sure is a "Craig" called in. He opined on/asked Adam his thoughts about the tweet and what if, when the onion is peeled back that one layer, it reveals an ugly mess that goes way beyond illegal benefits? He said "You know, sometimes something simple turns into the tip of the iceberg, so it is always dangerous to peel it back and have a look".

Adam's response? Something to the effect of 'That's just silly, no way, let's not make this out to be something it's not. No way there is some large scandal going on at UNC, etc etc." Not direct quotes but close to what Adam was saying, and he did quickly hush the guy and cut the line. How prophetic "Craig" was, and boy how wrong Adam was. In fairness, while I agreed at the time that Adam was likely correct, I thought he handled the caller wrong, and should have 1. Allowed the guy to make his full point, and 2. Take the guy and his point seriously.

Not bashing Adam Gold here either. Not my point. It is just crazy looking back on the show that day, and as it turned out, well, there was a heck of a lot more underneath that first layer. The only question left is; Is it even possible for there to be yet somethng else to be uncovered?

[JamminJoe]

It's not a pleasant thought, but maybe Jay would rather not dig too deep into something that he knows happens to a degree in every big time college program. UNC has AFAM, and Duke has its sociology degree, which a good number of Duke basketball players major in.

[Henderson]

The only question left is; Is it even possible for there to be yet somethng else to be uncovered?

A lot depends on the integrity of Mr. Wainstein. If he doesn't at least ASK the players to release their transcripts and term papers, we'll know he has none and is just a hired hack. But he may do a good job. We'll know by what information he seeks and what information he doesn't.

But let's imagine end-game scenarios here.

One possibility is that Wainstein's report will be milquetoast, leading to nothing but yada yada bullet points about changes going forward.

Another is that he sets up a scapegoat other than Julius Nyang'oro for Folt and Cunningham to purge, thus showing forceful action. They could be waiting on the Wainstein report to give them cover for what they are already planning -- to throw someone under the bus. Most of their possible victims in the athletic department have already gone. But there is one who was there for nearly all of it. One guy to whom heads are now swiveling. One guy whom they couldn't purge without the cover of the Wainstein report. One guy who's feeling the heat enough now to rally his supporters and friends to him for help. One guy who doesn't get paid all that well compared to his peers, partly because he's been slipping in the past few years, reflecting a pre-existing lack of enamor by the university but whose head on a platter might satisfy the mob.

Roy.

[roywhite]

Not bashing Adam Gold here either. Not my point. It is just crazy looking back on the show that day, and as it turned out, well, there was a heck of a lot more underneath that first layer. The only question left is; Is it even possible for there to be yet somethng else to be uncovered?

Dan Kane suggests a way to get some more information

"I would like to talk to the players" (http://chapelboro.com/news/unc/dan-kane-like-talk-players/)


“I would like to talk to the players,” Kane says. “It’s just that simple. Let’s talk to the players, let’s ask them, ‘how many classes were you in that did not meet? How did you get in those classes? What were you told to do for those classes? Who did you talk to within the athletic department about these classes?’”

Kane says he’s attempted to get more questions answered directly from Coach Williams, as well, but hasn’t been given the opportunity to talk with him. He says, while the interview this weekend with Jay Bilas allowed everyone to hear directly from the coach, he’d rather see someone who’s used to investigative reporting lead that discussion.

“He’s a very bright, very knowledgeable, very sharp guy,” Kane says. “He’s been critical of the NCAA. But, having said that, I would have liked for somebody who’s spent a lot of time in journalism, doing investigative reporting, handling that interview, just because, investigative reporters, they tend to focus on the details, (walk people) through the process, and tend to get a richer explanation as to what happened.”


Tip of the hat to Duke79UNLV77:


A journalist would at least have asked some real questions

[Reilly]

A ... NO ONE could run an organization as small and compact as a basketball program and not be aware of what is going on in the academic and other aspects of the lives of the fifteen or so people who make the program go ...

Butch Davis wants you to know that Roy Williams cannot keep tabs on 27,000 UNC students.

[CameronBlue]

I'll credit Bilas for coming to the defense of Williams assuming he felt he was unjustly attacked by McCants. I'll also credit him for being shockingly myopic. UNC has prolonged its own misery by trying to manipulate investigation after investigation and stonewall an honest and open disclosure of the facts. By doing so the conversation continues to be about UNC and its PR charade. Bilas, with his uncritical line of questioning, has only propelled that conversation forward, likely contributing further to Williams discomfort. How unwittingly ironic.

[Kedsy]

If Roy is telling the truth and McCants is lying, why isn't McCants being sued for slander?

OK, while I generally stand with those who think it's incredibly unlikely that Roy didn't have at least a decent idea of what was going on, I have to say that slander is really hard to prove. Even if they think McCants is lying, it's silly to jump from there to thinking they have a good chance of winning a slander (or libel or defamation) case. It just doesn't follow.

[OldSchool]

Bilas: What do you do next with regard to your relationship with Rashad McCants?

Ol' Roy: That I don't know. He's part of "the Family"...but it's almost like he's trying to divorce himself away from what went on here.

[theme from "The Godfather" swells in the background]

Ol' Roy: Jay, there are many things Coach Smith taught me here in this place. One thing in particular: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

* * * * *

[CUT TO: Hearing by Chairman Wainstein]

Chairman: This commission will come to order, please. State your name, please.

McCants: Rashad McCants.

Chairman: And where were you born?

McCants: Asheville, North Carolina.

Chairman: And where do you live now?

McCants: I live -- uh -- in an army barracks with the NCAA guys. [laughter]

Chairman: We have here finally a witness that will further testify to Coach Roy William's rule over an academic fraud empire that has channneled player after player through sham classes while collecting accolades and championships. This witness has had no buffer between himself and Coach Roy Williams. He can corroborate our charges on enough counts for this commission to recommend vacating the 2005 title and imposing penalties against the university. Commissioner.

Commissioner: Thank you.

[Ol' Roy whispers something to the man who was behind him earlier. McCants watches them.]

Commissioner: Mr. McCants -- Mr. McCants. Were you a member of "the Carolina Family"? Did you play under Coach Roy Williams -- also known as "The Godfather of the Carolina Way"?

McCants: I -- I -- I never knew no Godfather. I got my own family, Chairman.

Chairman: Mr. McCants, you are contradicting a sworn statement that you previously made to me and signed. I ask you again sir -- you are now under oath -- were you at any time a member of an organization rife with academic fraud -- headed by Coach Roy Williams?

McCants: I don't know nothin' about that... oh, I played a little basketball with his team but that was a long time ago, that's all.

Chairman: We have a sworn affidavit -- we have it -- your sworn affidavit that you committed academic fraud known to Coach Roy Williams. Do you deny that confession, and do you realize what will happen as a result of your denial?

McCants: Look the Wainstein guys promised me a deal. So I made up a lot of stuff about Roy Williams 'cause that's what they wanted -- but it was all lies -- uh -- everything. And they kept saying -- Roy Williams did this and Roy Williams did that -- uh -- so I said yeah sure, why not.

Commissioner: Coach Williams would you kindly identify for the committee the gentleman sitting to your left?

Bilas: I can answer that. His name is Vincent Pentangeli McCants.

Commissioner: Is he related to the witness?

Bilas: I believe he is in fact his cousin.

Chairman: Will he come forward and be sworn sir?

Bilas: Chairman, this man does not understand English. He speaks only Swahili. He came at his own expense to aid his cousin in his time of trouble. He's not under subpoena, and his reputation at his own university is impeccable.

Chairman: Are you saying that he knows nothing about these matters?

Bilas: To my knowledge, nothing.

Chairman: I'm gonna find out what the hell happened here! Alright, this commission is now adjourned. The witness is now excused.

Bilas: Chairman! Chairman! This commission owes an apology, this commission owes an apology to Coach Roy Williams -- an apology, Chairman!

[Bilas says something to McCants' cousin in Swahili.]

* * * * *

[CUT TO: An MP searches Jay Bilas for a weapon. They lead him to where McCants is waiting. McCants lights up a cigar.]

Bilas: You're gonna be okay, Rashad -- don't worry.

McCants: Did my cousin go back?

Bilas: Yeah, don't worry.

McCants: He's ten times tougher than me, cuz. He's old school.

Bilas: He didn't want tickets to any games -- he just wanted to go straight home.

McCants: That's cuz. Hey listen -- nothing could get him out, get him away from that two-bit school. He could have been big in D1, he could have coached his own team. Jay -- what do I do now?

Bilas: Rashad -- you were always interested in politics and history. I remember you taking a bunch of classes in African history.

McCants: No, Jay, those were no-show classes with the papers written by tutors.

Bilas: Oh right, I forgot. Anyway, you were around the old timers -- and meeting up on how the Carolina Family should be organized. How they based it on the old Roman legion -- the capos and the soldiers. And it worked.

McCants: Yea, it worked. Those were the great old days you know. And it was like the Roman Empire. The Carolina Family was like the Roman Empire.

Bilas: It was once. Rashad -- when a plot against the Emperor failed -- the planners were always given a chance to let their families keep their fortunes.

McCants: Yeah, but only the rich guys, Jay. The little guys, they got knocked off and all their estates went to the Emperors. Unless they went home and uh, killed themselves -- then nothing happened. And their families, their families were taken care of, Jay.

Bilas: That was a good break -- nice funeral.

McCants: Yeah, they went home and sat in a hot bath, opened up their veins and bled to death. And sometimes had a little party before they did it.

Bilas: Don't worry about anything, Rashad.

McCants: Thanks Jay -- thanks.

[Bilas walks off]

McCants: Remember, Jay -- born to be hated, dying to be loved.

Bilas: I'll remember. [tells him goodbye in Swahili]

[cspan37421]

It's not a pleasant thought, but maybe Jay would rather not dig too deep into something that he knows happens to a degree in every big time college program. UNC has AFAM, and Duke has its sociology degree, which a good number of Duke basketball players major in.

Still, with the sociology? I thought that was passé as an easy Duke major.

If Duke's classes meet and UNC's don't, it's already an unfair comparison. There's a chance of classroom learning. If Duke players write their own papers ... well, you get the drift.

Even the not-that-long-ago courses in Wolof, which I view with skepticism, met.

The broader issue is, this was a PR win for Roy Williams. Perhaps just a small battle in a war he will lose, but it's a little win. Roy gets his message across, on his turf, with (most of) his players backing him up, and he can even claim that he went against a Dukie in the interview. Note how much less of an impression it would have made if Hubert Davis did the interview. It could be dismissed as Tar Heels defending their own. By going with Bilas, he gives the impression that he has support for his position beyond the room of former players.

Of course, he probably knew that Bilas would toss him softballs. IIRC Bilas is on record saying players should be paid; I'm not aware he has staked out a position calling for more legitimacy in academic pursuits among D1 athletes. He speaks forcefully and persuasively against the NCAA, and when he feels like it, he can really crush it in a debate.

But as others noted, here, he was not being an investigative journalist (or any kind of a journalist). He was more of a TV show host. I suppose that amiability gives him access, but I think sometimes we get confused about whether we're going to get JB the social critic or JB the emcee.

[cspan37421]

At the risk of continuing to swim upstream, it may just be as simple as -- Jay believes Roy.

Anyway -- bash on.

No bash ... but the way I see it, and maybe some others, is that Jay is a former player. He knows how the sausage is made. So many of us find it not-so-credible if he goes to Abe Froman and says, this sausage is made with quality cuts of meat, right?

4161


Suuuuuuure it is.

[miramar]

The Art Chansky post was far worse:

"The university needs to make a much stronger statement, supporting Williams unequivocally that he had no knowledge of inappropriate work being done by, or for, McCants during the year and a half he was actually in school while Williams was at Carolina.

Why UNC has not come out with a stronger defense for Williams is beyond me, and speaks to the public relations disaster it has created by never having decided how to respond correctly to many of the reports and accusations stemming from the AFAM scandal."


Mr. Chansky, you should consider the possibility that the reason that UNC has not come out with a stronger defense of Williams is because they have all the sordid details in front of them.

They have the transcripts full of bogus AFAM independent studies and paper courses, as well as all of the players' test scores and grades. They have statements from several football players that corroborate all that McCants has said. They know the kind of work done in some of these AFAM classes, such as the one below:

https://twitter.com/BryanAGraham/statuses/448946511896797184

They also know that the N&O is looking at things that the administrators themselves have ignored:

https://twitter.com/BryanAGraham/statuses/448946511896797184

And they can imagine what Julius Nyang’oro must be telling prosecutors right about know.

They also know that the scandal led to Holden Thorp's resignation, and that things have only gotten worse since then. Roy Williams is 63 years old, as he keeps reminding us, and if things get worse he can afford to walk away from the whole thing. College administrators aren't so lucky.

[superdave]

The Art Chansky post was far worse:

"The university needs to make a much stronger statement, supporting Williams unequivocally that he had no knowledge of inappropriate work being done by, or for, McCants during the year and a half he was actually in school while Williams was at Carolina.

Why UNC has not come out with a stronger defense for Williams is beyond me, and speaks to the public relations disaster it has created by never having decided how to respond correctly to many of the reports and accusations stemming from the AFAM scandal."


Mr. Chansky, you should consider the possibility that the reason that UNC has not come out with a stronger defense of Williams is because they have all the sordid details in front of them.

They have the transcripts full of bogus AFAM independent studies and paper courses, as well as all of the players' test scores and grades. They have statements from several football players that corroborate all that McCants has said. They know the kind of work done in some of these AFAM classes, such as the one below:

https://twitter.com/BryanAGraham/statuses/448946511896797184

They also know that the N&O is looking at things that the administrators themselves have ignored:

https://twitter.com/BryanAGraham/statuses/448946511896797184

And they can imagine what Julius Nyang’oro must be telling prosecutors right about know.

They also know that the scandal led to Holden Thorp's resignation, and that things have only gotten worse since then. Roy Williams is 63 years old, as he keeps reminding us, and if things get worse he can afford to walk away from the whole thing. College administrators aren't so lucky.



Can UNC afford another round of strong denials blowing up in their face? I do not think so. This thing has been mismanaged from Day 1. It's time to stop talking and let things properly and openly or the house will get cleaned over there again.

Chansky is a hack. I have no respect for that guy.

[Troublemaker]

Jay should continue to be what he is, which is the most-respected, most un-biased on-air college basketball analyst. If you put together a master list of all former-players-turned-college-bball-analysts (a fraternity Shane is about to join), which person would be at the very top of that list in terms of intelligent commentary and broad-spectrum respect from all fanbases? Elmore? Ha! No, it's clearly Jay. He would win that poll. And I'm so very proud of him for achieving that kind of status in his field.

IMO, if I were in his shoes, I would not endanger that credibility by going after UNC. It's sad but I believe nobody except Duke fans want to hear a Duke guy go after UNC for their corrupt academic shenanigans. No, criticism of UNC must come from within. My hope would be that someone like Brad Daugherty would step up to the plate and go after his alma mater for setting up these fake classes that he could never have imagined being a part of back when he was in college. (I'm giving UNC the benefit of the doubt that their corruption didn't extend back towards the 80s.) UNC players graduating despite taking all those fake classes sort of cheapens Daugherty's degree, you know? And where's Kenny Smith on this?

As for Jay, I want him to maintain his credibility and status as an unbiased, intelligent analyst because at various points in time, he'll need to comment on Duke. When some hack journalist releases an unfair takedown of Coach K or the program (which happens every now and then, right?), Jay can be there to defend Duke with credibility. And when Jay needs to go after Duke for something (http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2007/09/duke-case-bilas-applies-full-court.html) (warning, LAX link), he'll have the credibility to do so as well. Big picture: Jay's status as the #1 on-air college basketball pundit is a great thing for Duke, imo.

[77devil]

Jay should continue to be what he is, which is the most-respected, most un-biased on-air college basketball analyst. If you put together a master list of all former-players-turned-college-bball-analysts (a fraternity Shane is about to join), which person would be at the very top of that list in terms of intelligent commentary and broad-spectrum respect from all fanbases? Elmore? Ha! No, it's clearly Jay. He would win that poll. And I'm so very proud of him for achieving that kind of status in his field.

IMO, if I were in his shoes, I would not endanger that credibility by going after UNC. It's sad but I believe nobody except Duke fans want to hear a Duke guy go after UNC for their corrupt academic shenanigans. No, criticism of UNC must come from within. My hope would be that someone like Brad Daugherty would step up to the plate and go after his alma mater for setting up these fake classes that he could never have imagined being a part of back when he was in college. (I'm giving UNC the benefit of the doubt that their corruption didn't extend back towards the 80s.) UNC players graduating despite taking all those fake classes sort of cheapens Daugherty's degree, you know? And where's Kenny Smith on this?

As for Jay, I want him to maintain his credibility and status as an unbiased, intelligent analyst because at various points in time, he'll need to comment on Duke. When some hack journalist releases an unfair takedown of Coach K or the program (which happens every now and then, right?), Jay can be there to defend Duke with credibility. And when Jay needs to go after Duke for something (http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2007/09/duke-case-bilas-applies-full-court.html) (warning, LAX link), he'll have the credibility to do so as well. Big picture: Jay's status as the #1 on-air college basketball pundit is a great thing for Duke, imo.

All the more reason Jay should have let Roy's interview stand on its own without expressing an opinion about his honesty and credibility. I appreciate that Jay is not a journalist and is paid to express opinions. Given how much information has already emerged about academic cheating at UNC, however, this is one time it would have been better if Jay had simply conducted an interview.

[roywhite]

Jay should continue to be what he is, which is the most-respected, most un-biased on-air college basketball analyst. If you put together a master list of all former-players-turned-college-bball-analysts (a fraternity Shane is about to join), which person would be at the very top of that list in terms of intelligent commentary and broad-spectrum respect from all fanbases? Elmore? Ha! No, it's clearly Jay. He would win that poll. And I'm so very proud of him for achieving that kind of status in his field.

IMO, if I were in his shoes, I would not endanger that credibility by going after UNC. It's sad but I believe nobody except Duke fans want to hear a Duke guy go after UNC for their corrupt academic shenanigans. No, criticism of UNC must come from within. My hope would be that someone like Brad Daugherty would step up to the plate and go after his alma mater for setting up these fake classes that he could never have imagined being a part of back when he was in college. (I'm giving UNC the benefit of the doubt that their corruption didn't extend back towards the 80s.) UNC players graduating despite taking all those fake classes sort of cheapens Daugherty's degree, you know? And where's Kenny Smith on this?

As for Jay, I want him to maintain his credibility and status as an unbiased, intelligent analyst because at various points in time, he'll need to comment on Duke. When some hack journalist releases an unfair takedown of Coach K or the program (which happens every now and then, right?), Jay can be there to defend Duke with credibility. And when Jay needs to go after Duke for something (http://johnsville.blogspot.com/2007/09/duke-case-bilas-applies-full-court.html) (warning, LAX link), he'll have the credibility to do so as well. Big picture: Jay's status as the #1 on-air college basketball pundit is a great thing for Duke, imo.

Certainly agree that Jay is a terrific college basketball analyst. I'm not sure there has been any disagreement at all about that point in this thread.

But did he practice basic journalism in this interview? Was he even skeptical of any of Roy's statements?

**77devil had similar thoughts at about the same time

[grad_devil]

Now maybe there are privacy laws that prevent it, but I thought that the coaches all knew what classes their scholarship players were taking and how they were doing. So I have trouble with this:

“The idea, somehow, that a coach—especially when you go back to 2005—would know about the players’ choices in classes and electives when they’re juniors, I don’t believe that’s the case, and I believe Roy Williams.”

My understanding was that they would know.
SoCal


All I can say it that if Roy did not know what was going on he is monumentally stupid. NO ONE could run an organization as small and compact as a basketball program and not be aware of what is going on in the academic and other aspects of the lives of the fifteen or so people who make the program go. It is ridiculous to argue otherwise. I do not give Jay or anyone else a pass on this issue.

I'm the Faculty Athletics Representative at a small, understaffed NCAA Division II school. One of my jobs is to certify student-athletes' continuing eligibility.

A couple of weeks ago, I had my annual meeting with the football coaches (7) to go through their list of student-athletes (~110) and talk about eligibility. Each year I'm amazed by how much they know about each student's courses taken, grades, GPA, etc.

I think that's why this claim by Roy just doesn't hold water from my perspective. If my 7 coaches can recite -- from memory -- all of the academic information for 110 football student-athletes, there is absolutely no excuse for a large, well-resourced program like Roy's to be ignorant of the classes (and suspect turn-around -- Fs to the dean's list? Really?) for those 12-15 student-athletes. None.

[killerleft]

All I can say it that if Roy did not know what was going on he is monumentally stupid. NO ONE could run an organization as small and compact as a basketball program and not be aware of what is going on in the academic and other aspects of the lives of the fifteen or so people who make the program go. It is ridiculous to argue otherwise. I do not give Jay or anyone else a pass on this issue.

Here we are years into this scandal, and Roy would have us somehow believe that he STILL -THAT HE STILL- THAT HE STILL doesn't know what a paper class is? And Jay Bilas sat there and didn't blink an eye???????? How could anybody not bleat with laughter? You, Jay Bilas, must have taken a big dose of RoyBelieve, is all I can say.

[tbyers11]

Bilas: What do you do next with regard to your relationship with Rashad McCants?

Ol' Roy: That I don't know. He's part of "the Family"...but it's almost like he's trying to divorce himself away from what went on here.

[theme from "The Godfather" swells in the background]

Ol' Roy: Jay, there are many things Coach Smith taught me here in this place. One thing in particular: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

* * * * *


Can't spork you again yet, but just wanted to say that this was absolutely brilliant. I want more followups.

Dean Smith as Don Vito, Matt Doherty as Fredo, Sean May as Clemenza "Leave the transcript, take the cannoli."