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Olympic Fan
05-29-2014, 01:24 PM
Titles in men's lacrosse and women's golf gave Duke a huge boost in the latest standings for the Learfield Director's Cup -- an award presided over by the National Association of Athletic Directors to measure a school's overall athletic performance. Duke usually does very well in these listings -- almost always finishing in the top 20 nationally. The Devils have been top 10 four times in the last decade, twice topping out at fifth in the nation.

Duke has climbed from 10th in the previous standings to second in the latest rankings:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/May29DI.pdf

There is no possibility in catching Stanford, which has won the title every year in this century. It's a point scale -- Duke got 100 points for winning lax and wgolf. Some sports are worth more, but that's a lot. A year ago, Duke finished with 966 points and finished 11th. The current top seven:

1. Stanford -- 1,509.50
2. Duke -- 1,024.50
3. Penn State -- 1,024.25
4. Florida -- 999.50
5. Notre Dame -- 989.75
6. UNC -- 941.0
7. Virginia -- 877.00

On June 10th, new standings will be issued with men's golf, softball, water polo and women's rowing included. Duke is not going to add much to its total there -- last year we added a few points from men's golf, but this year's team is not nearly as good. Not sure, but I think a couple of individuals may have qualified for the NCAAs, but I don't think the team did. We have a new women's rowing team, but I doubt they are ready to score any points. I have no idea is our closest competitors are strong in any of these sports.

On June 19th, new standings are released that include men's and women's track and field. We did very well there last year, getting 118 points from the men and women combined. We have some strong individuals and ought to do well. But I know Florida is a Track and Field powerhouse -- they'll gain ground there.

The final standings come out June 26 or 27 and add baseball. By missing the NCAA field, we won't get any points there. Florida is the No. 2 seed in the entire tournament, so they'll get a boatload of points there. UNC is in their bracket -- if Florida can knock them out, they'll get minimal points there. Notre Dame is also not in the tournament. Virginia is and ought to advance unto at least the superregionals, but unless they win the title, they're too far back to threaten us.

Overall, I'm not too optimistic about holding off Florida ... I think with good fortune we can hold off the three ACC teams on our heels. And I just don't know enough about Penn State's spring sports to guess whether we can hold them off.

Still, fifth place is Duke's best finish ever -- I think we can beat that and lead the ACC. That's a good sports year.

dpslaw
05-29-2014, 01:50 PM
Really quite remarkable in a year in which men's basketball received minimal points.

MCFinARL
05-29-2014, 02:27 PM
Titles in men's lacrosse and women's golf gave Duke a huge boost in the latest standings for the Learfield Director's Cup -- an award presided over by the National Association of Athletic Directors to measure a school's overall athletic performance. Duke usually does very well in these listings -- almost always finishing in the top 20 nationally. The Devils have been top 10 four times in the last decade, twice topping out at fifth in the nation.

Duke has climbed from 10th in the previous standings to second in the latest rankings:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/May29DI.pdf

There is no possibility in catching Stanford, which has won the title every year in this century. It's a point scale -- Duke got 100 points for winning lax and wgolf. Some sports are worth more, but that's a lot. A year ago, Duke finished with 966 points and finished 11th. The current top seven:

1. Stanford -- 1,509.50
2. Duke -- 1,024.50
3. Penn State -- 1,024.25
4. Florida -- 999.50
5. Notre Dame -- 989.75
6. UNC -- 941.0
7. Virginia -- 877.00

On June 10th, new standings will be issued with men's golf, softball, water polo and women's rowing included. Duke is not going to add much to its total there -- last year we added a few points from men's golf, but this year's team is not nearly as good. Not sure, but I think a couple of individuals may have qualified for the NCAAs, but I don't think the team did. We have a new women's rowing team, but I doubt they are ready to score any points. I have no idea is our closest competitors are strong in any of these sports.

On June 19th, new standings are released that include men's and women's track and field. We did very well there last year, getting 118 points from the men and women combined. We have some strong individuals and ought to do well. But I know Florida is a Track and Field powerhouse -- they'll gain ground there.

The final standings come out June 26 or 27 and add baseball. By missing the NCAA field, we won't get any points there. Florida is the No. 2 seed in the entire tournament, so they'll get a boatload of points there. UNC is in their bracket -- if Florida can knock them out, they'll get minimal points there. Notre Dame is also not in the tournament. Virginia is and ought to advance unto at least the superregionals, but unless they win the title, they're too far back to threaten us.

Overall, I'm not too optimistic about holding off Florida ... I think with good fortune we can hold off the three ACC teams on our heels. And I just don't know enough about Penn State's spring sports to guess whether we can hold them off.

Still, fifth place is Duke's best finish ever -- I think we can beat that and lead the ACC. That's a good sports year.

You are right that Men's golf, as a team, did not make the NCAA tournament field; neither did Florida, Penn State, Notre Dame, UNC or Virginia, although UVA had an individual golfer (I don't think that earns director's cup points, though). Stanford led the preliminary rounds but lost in the semifinals of the match format championship; still, lots more points for them.

Women's rowing isn't all that new--it's a 15-year-old program, but you are right that they will not be earning any Director's Cup points this year. Stanford, UVA, and Notre Dame have a chance to win more points there.

In softball, Notre Dame participated in the first round but was eliminated, so they will get a few points. Florida has won its super-regional and advanced to the Women's College World Series, so they can finish no lower than 8th. No points for Stanford (for once), Penn State, UNC, UVA, or of course, Duke.

Water polo is already included.

Track and field is a place where Duke could score more points, but likely so could most of these teams. Duke has 27 athletes going to the east regional meet, of whom, realistically, only a few will probably advance to the national championships (each regional event has 48 competitors, of which the top 12 qualify). Notre Dame has 27, UNC has 26, Virginia 22, Penn State 38. Florida qualified 37, but since they are ranked #1 (men) and #2 (women) in the country right now it seems likely they will advance quite a few of those athletes to the championships. Stanford sends 29 to the West Regional, including one #1 regional seed and 10 top five seeds.

In baseball, Florida, Virginia, and UNC have made the field, and as you note, all are competitive, especially Florida.

To make a long story short, your rough analysis is borne out by the detailed facts--Stanford will probably increase their lead on the field, except possibly against Florida, but no one can catch them. Florida will almost certainly pass both Duke and Penn State on the strength of baseball and track and field. Notre Dame likely will not unless they have an exceptional performance at the women's rowing championships. UNC would need strong performances in both baseball and track and field (or a win in baseball). UVA is too far back to pass us without, basically, winning the College World Series AND having an exceptional track and field performance.

With Penn State, it comes down to track and field--if Duke gets the same number of points as Penn State, Duke stays ahead; if Penn State gets more, they will pass Duke. Once the regional meet is over (it started today), we will have a much clearer idea of how that might play out. On the men's side, Duke isn't likely to do as well this year as last, since Curtis Beach is not competing, though we do have a couple of other athletes who may be somewhat competitive.

MCFinARL
05-29-2014, 02:28 PM
Really quite remarkable in a year in which men's basketball received minimal points.

Yes, and women's basketball, because of their injuries, finished the tournament earlier than usual as well.

Olympic Fan
05-29-2014, 02:30 PM
Really quite remarkable in a year in which men's basketball received minimal points.

Duke got 75 points from basketball -- 25 from the men (technically, Duke's second round loss was considered a tie for 33rd) and 50 from the women (the third-round loss was considered a tie for 17th)

A year ago, both Duke teams lost in the Elite Eight (considered a tie for 5th) and got 75 points each.

So we dropped by 71 points in basketball -- not enough to threaten Stanford for No. 1, but it would have given us a little better cushion vs. Penn State and Florida.

Tom B.
05-29-2014, 04:01 PM
Really quite remarkable in a year in which men's basketball received minimal points.


Yes, and women's basketball, because of their injuries, finished the tournament earlier than usual as well.


Of course, these results are mitigated somewhat by the fact that we're now receiving points in football (still feels stange to say that, but in a good way), which was a big fat zero for us for so long.

MCFinARL
05-29-2014, 05:40 PM
Of course, these results are mitigated somewhat by the fact that we're now receiving points in football (still feels stange to say that, but in a good way), which was a big fat zero for us for so long.

Yes, very true.

Henderson
05-29-2014, 06:15 PM
So Learfield is a sports sponsor. Like Helms Bread.

Sorry, what was the question again?

-jk
05-29-2014, 06:19 PM
So Learfield is a sports sponsor. Like Helms Bread.

Sorry, what was the question again?

Except Learfield has a methodology that involves more than alternative uses of yeast (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-beer)...

-jk

SCMatt33
05-29-2014, 07:26 PM
I have a few corrections and caveats to point out, here. Last year, Duke's combined place in T&F was 118, not points scored. The Women finished tied for 53rd and scored 17.5 points. The Men finished in 65th and scored 5 points. So only 22.5 points were scored. For a full breakdown of how points are awarded, please reference this handy chart (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/dcscoring.pdf). Please note that points for ties are split the same way that prize money is split for golf. So if 2nd is worth 90 points and 3rd is worth 85 points, Two teams who tie for second each get 87.5. If 4th was worth 80 points and 3 teams tied for 2nd, they'd all get 85 points.

The other caveat to point out is that there is a limit on how many sports can score points. In DI, 10 men's and 10 women's sports may score points, with the low scores thrown out should more than 10 score. Currently, Duke has 18 sports with points, 10 Women's, 7 Men's, plus Fencing which has a single coed championship. The rules allow Fencing to be allocated to whichever gender is more convenient. In Duke's case, it will be placed with the Men, meaning that there are essentially 8 Men's sports scoring points. With only T&F still able to score points, the limit won't be a problem on the Men's side. On the Women's side however, Due has already reached the limit. Currently, the lowest Women's score is 22 points for Swimming & Diving. Since 2007 (I didn't go back farther because there seemed to be lower overall scores indicating a possible tweak in the scoring system) Duke's women's T&F team has scored more than 22 points only twice, most recently in 2011 thanks largely in part to Juliet Bottorff's surprise NCAA title in the 10,000m. Despite having some strong individuals, earning team points in T&F is quite difficult with nothing less than a top 8 finish in any event earning points. In team sports, the threshold is a bit lower once in the NCAAs. In Baseball for instance, all teams will get at least 25 points, and teams who are runners up in their regional get 50, so even if Florida were to knock out UNC, they could still get up to 50 points for that effort.

Overall, I'd be well satisfied with Duke getting an overall total over 1,050 and very surprised if they approached 1,100. In recent years this range of scoring generally is good enough for a top 10 finish, though not usually a top 5. The overall scores do seem to be on the low side so far this year, so it's not unreasonable to hope for a top 5, but I think that 6-8 would be a pretty good finish, too

Henderson
05-29-2014, 08:32 PM
Except Learfield has a methodology that involves more than alternative uses of yeast (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-beer)...

-jk

Sorry, but if IC started crowing about a "Learfield Director's Cup," I'd be laughing so hard the sputum would be thick enough to make black tar appear on a person's heel.

Olympic Fan
05-29-2014, 08:53 PM
Sorry, but if IC started crowing about a "Learfield Director's Cup," I'd be laughing so hard the sputum would be thick enough to make black tar appear on a person's heel.

So you'd sneer at someone claiming to win the Discover Orange Bowl or the All-State Sugar Bowl?

Learfield Communications in the corporate sponsor for the award, but it is administered by and awarded by the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics. It's been awarded every year since 1994.

If you can't tell the difference between a corporate sponsor for a legitimate award and the self-appointed Helms Bakery Awards (especially those awarded retroactively like UNC's 1924 "championship") then I don't know what I can say. I guess you equate our appearance in the 2013 Chic-fil-A Bowl with UNC's Helms banner?

PS I appreciate the clarifications from SCMatt33 and from MCFinARL ... this IS a significant measure of athletic success -- the best measure of overall athletic success. I did misread the Track and Field results from last year and I know, but had forgotten the limit of 10 sports per gender (put in place to balance the field from schools like Stanford that sponsor a ton of sports and schools that can't afford that many).

I still think Duke has to have a chance for third place overall (we're not going to hold off Florida) and first in the ACC. That would be a great achievement.

sagegrouse
05-29-2014, 09:00 PM
I still think Duke has to have a chance for third place overall (we're not going to hold off Florida) and first in the ACC. That would be a great achievement.

Yep. If we were stronger in basketball, we'd show those Gators.

Henderson
05-29-2014, 09:21 PM
Learfield Communications in the corporate sponsor for the award, but it is administered by and awarded by the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics. It's been awarded every year since 1994.


"It's not just any old bakery. It's the Helms bakery."

MCFinARL
05-29-2014, 11:00 PM
I have a few corrections and caveats to point out, here. Last year, Duke's combined place in T&F was 118, not points scored. The Women finished tied for 53rd and scored 17.5 points. The Men finished in 65th and scored 5 points. So only 22.5 points were scored. For a full breakdown of how points are awarded, please reference this handy chart (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/dcscoring.pdf). Please note that points for ties are split the same way that prize money is split for golf. So if 2nd is worth 90 points and 3rd is worth 85 points, Two teams who tie for second each get 87.5. If 4th was worth 80 points and 3 teams tied for 2nd, they'd all get 85 points.

The other caveat to point out is that there is a limit on how many sports can score points. In DI, 10 men's and 10 women's sports may score points, with the low scores thrown out should more than 10 score. Currently, Duke has 18 sports with points, 10 Women's, 7 Men's, plus Fencing which has a single coed championship. The rules allow Fencing to be allocated to whichever gender is more convenient. In Duke's case, it will be placed with the Men, meaning that there are essentially 8 Men's sports scoring points. With only T&F still able to score points, the limit won't be a problem on the Men's side. On the Women's side however, Due has already reached the limit. Currently, the lowest Women's score is 22 points for Swimming & Diving. Since 2007 (I didn't go back farther because there seemed to be lower overall scores indicating a possible tweak in the scoring system) Duke's women's T&F team has scored more than 22 points only twice, most recently in 2011 thanks largely in part to Juliet Bottorff's surprise NCAA title in the 10,000m. Despite having some strong individuals, earning team points in T&F is quite difficult with nothing less than a top 8 finish in any event earning points. In team sports, the threshold is a bit lower once in the NCAAs. In Baseball for instance, all teams will get at least 25 points, and teams who are runners up in their regional get 50, so even if Florida were to knock out UNC, they could still get up to 50 points for that effort.

Overall, I'd be well satisfied with Duke getting an overall total over 1,050 and very surprised if they approached 1,100. In recent years this range of scoring generally is good enough for a top 10 finish, though not usually a top 5. The overall scores do seem to be on the low side so far this year, so it's not unreasonable to hope for a top 5, but I think that 6-8 would be a pretty good finish, too

I hadn't focused on the fact that Duke already had 10 women's teams scoring. That is a problem for adding additional points, as the Duke women's track and field team has a better chance of actually scoring, and thus earning points, than the men's team; last year almost all (maybe all?) of the men's points came from Curtis Beach's high finish in the decathlon, and he is not in this year's field (nor is any Duke decathlete). So it may be that Duke stays at 1024.5. The good news--given the current point totals, I don't think UVA can realistically pass Duke, even with their baseball points. Notre Dame might be able to, and so might UNC, but neither is certain. Florida will. Penn State is a bit of a toss up because, like Duke, they only have track and field left to score in; as I noted above we will have a better idea about that (and about UNC--50 points from baseball will not be enough for them to pass Duke) when we see who advances in track and field this weekend and how likely they are to score at nationals.

Bottom line, Duke will not finish lower than 6th, barring something really extraordinary happening, and they have a reasonable chance to finish 4th or 5th. If the stars are in alignment, they might finish 3rd. All, really, results to be very happy about.

-bdbd
05-30-2014, 12:51 AM
Sorry, but if IC started crowing about a "Learfield Director's Cup," I'd be laughing so hard the sputum would be thick enough to make black tar appear on a person's heel.

Yeah, but they'd probably already have a "Learfield top-10" banner already hoisted into the rafters at the Nose Dome.....

devildeac
05-30-2014, 08:08 AM
Except Learfield has a methodology that involves more than alternative uses of yeast (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-beer)...

-jk

When I saw your link for "alternative uses of yeast," I was hoping you'd reference the Ymm, Beer thread. ;)

drhbre
05-30-2014, 09:47 AM
I hadn't focused on the fact that Duke already had 10 women's teams scoring. That is a problem for adding additional points, as the Duke women's track and field team has a better chance of actually scoring, and thus earning points, than the men's team; last year almost all (maybe all?) of the men's points came from Curtis Beach's high finish in the decathlon, and he is not in this year's field (nor is any Duke decathlete). So it may be that Duke stays at 1024.5. The good news--given the current point totals, I don't think UVA can realistically pass Duke, even with their baseball points. Notre Dame might be able to, and so might UNC, but neither is certain. Florida will. Penn State is a bit of a toss up because, like Duke, they only have track and field left to score in; as I noted above we will have a better idea about that (and about UNC--50 points from baseball will not be enough for them to pass Duke) when we see who advances in track and field this weekend and how likely they are to score at nationals.

Bottom line, Duke will not finish lower than 6th, barring something really extraordinary happening, and they have a reasonable chance to finish 4th or 5th. If the stars are in alignment, they might finish 3rd. All, really, results to be very happy about.

I wouldn't rule UVA out as far as passing Duke. They are ranked very highly in Women's rowing (Ranked 4th) which is this weekend. So, they may have two highly scoring sports left (Rowing and baseball) and then the possibility of adding a few points in track and field.

MCFinARL
05-30-2014, 11:00 AM
I wouldn't rule UVA out as far as passing Duke. They are ranked very highly in Women's rowing (Ranked 4th) which is this weekend. So, they may have two highly scoring sports left (Rowing and baseball) and then the possibility of adding a few points in track and field.

Good point--I forgot they were still in rowing. Traditionally UVA never seems to do as well as expected in baseball (perhaps because the expectations are always so high), but they are certainly capable of doing extremely well in both of these sports. If baseball gets through the super regional to the college world series and rowing finishes top 5, they may well pass Duke.

One way or the other, though, I think there is at least a fair chance that Duke will stay ahead of at least one of these teams--we'll see.

Olympic Fan
05-30-2014, 03:18 PM
I wouldn't rule UVA out as far as passing Duke. They are ranked very highly in Women's rowing (Ranked 4th) which is this weekend. So, they may have two highly scoring sports left (Rowing and baseball) and then the possibility of adding a few points in track and field.

Good point about Virginia .. let's see, a fourth place finish in rowing would be worth 80 points (approximately a five-point dip for every place lower than that). If Virginia wins their subregional and loses in the superregional, they get 64 points ... obviously, a trip to the College World Series adds more. So they could easily add another 140 points -- which would put them ahead of Duke.

I was looking at the 10-sport limit for women's sports. The lowest point contribution from one of the 10 sports that has scored so far is women's swimming --20 points. So if women's track can beat that, they would replace swimming ... but our point total would only rise by the number of points they earn beyond the 20 we have to drop.

MCFinARL
06-02-2014, 11:57 AM
The women's rowing championships are completed, with UVA placing 5th and Notre Dame 9th. Stanford was 4th, which will add to their already prohibitive lead if they don't already have ten women's sports.

Based on the scoring from last year, UVA will receive 75 points and Notre Dame 61.5.

UVA has also advanced to the Super regional in baseball, which I believe guarantees them at least a 9th place finish (along with all teams that don't advance to the college world series). That is apparently worth 64 points. That would put UVA at 1016 points, still behind Duke. But if they beat Maryland to reach the College World series, they will pass Duke unless Duke can somehow earn enough points in Track and Field to hold them off (probably unlikely since Duke's most competitive qualifier for nationals is Juliet Botorff, and as noted earlier in the thread, Duke already has points from 10 women's teams).

Notre Dame has already passed Duke with these rowing points.

Florida, somewhat shockingly, was eliminated in the baseball regionals with two losses and no wins; last year the lowest score awarded in baseball was 25, which would tie them with Duke. Unfortunately, both their men's and women's track teams are among the very best in the country, so they will also pass Duke.

North Carolina remains alive in the regional bracket now vacated by Florida, but no one has yet advanced. College of Charleston, at 2-0, has the edge right now.

dpslaw
06-02-2014, 02:28 PM
An update and a caveat: UNC lost to Long Beach State today, so their season is over. And if any of the schools that might pass Duke already have 10 men's or women's teams counted in their totals, their net total points cannot be determined simply by adding in any new points earned. Their lowest scoring team's points must also be subtracted out.

MCFinARL
06-02-2014, 03:48 PM
An update and a caveat: UNC lost to Long Beach State today, so their season is over. And if any of the schools that might pass Duke already have 10 men's or women's teams counted in their totals, their net total points cannot be determined simply by adding in any new points earned. Their lowest scoring team's points must also be subtracted out.

I am pretty sure I checked UVA and Notre Dame for the 10-sport rule, though I may have misremembered. Haven't checked Florida but since they can pass Duke with a good finish in either men's or women's track, the odds are probably in their favor--I doubt they already have ten sports in both genders.

UNC will receive 50 points if they count as being in 17th place and 25 if they count as being in 33rd place (same as 49th place, apparently--so I guess any team that is considered to have come in second in the region is "17th" and all others get 25 points). Since they go out with only one win and the two remaining teams each have 2, I'm thinking that should mean they will get 25 points. That would put them at 966, still almost 60 points behind Duke. UNC advanced a few athletes to the NCAA track and field finals, but probably not enough to do very well there--so it's looking good that Duke will stay ahead of UNC--which is, after all, the most important thing.

As a side note, while researching their track performance at regionals on the goheels.com site, I came across this fascinating quotation from the head track coach, Harlis Meaders, about their qualifying 5000 meter runner: "Isaac ran a very smart and tactful race." Nice to know they are training such well-mannered athletes over there.

sagegrouse
06-02-2014, 03:57 PM
As a side note, while researching their track performance at regionals on the goheels.com site, I came across this fascinating quotation from the head track coach, Harlis Meaders, about their qualifying 5000 meter runner: "Isaac ran a very smart and tactful race." Nice to know they are training such well-mannered athletes over there.

Yeah, that's quite a complement.

devildeac
06-02-2014, 06:28 PM
Yeah, that's quite a complement.

Your write.:rolleyes:

arnie
06-02-2014, 06:43 PM
As a side note, while researching their track performance at regionals on the goheels.com site, I came across this fascinating quotation from the head track coach, Harlis Meaders, about their qualifying 5000 meter runner: "Isaac ran a very smart and tactful race." Nice to know they are training such well-mannered athletes over there.

I guess Mr. Meaders must have gradeated from the Hole with honors.

SCMatt33
06-02-2014, 08:37 PM
One note to add is that golf has previously awarded points to teams who make the regional, but do not qualify for the championship. UVA finished 7th in its regional (only top 5 qualified). There are 6 regionals, and each team who finishes 6th, 7th, 8th, etc. will be grouped as a 6 way tie for the directors cup. Some wrenches can be thrown into the pot by teams who tied, or who lost a playoff to advance, but unless there are an excessive number of those, UVA's finish will put its overall placing in the high 30's and will receive about 30-35 points for this. Unless Duke makes up ground in track, it is likely that they will finish behind UVA. My count had UVA at 8 men's sports as of the last update, with baseball being 9. Golf would currently be the lowest so their track team would need to score more than that to count, but I suspect that even with a super regional loss in baseball, they will stay ahead of Duke. I haven't seen Penn State mentioned yet, but they're sending 15 athletes to the track and field championship and scored about 100 combined directors cup points last year, so I suspect they'll pass Duke as well.

The other wild card is UCLA. I have no idea if they have 10 sport issues, but they had a 12 place finish in Rowing (worth 54 points last year), a T5 in Men's golf (72.75), a T9 in Softball (64), plus 812.75 points as of the previous update for a total of 1003.5 before track, and they are sending 11 athletes to Eugene. They might have 10 sport issues that make these totals moot but that appears to be the closest race Duke has.

All of that put together would put Duke in 6th or 7th place depending on UCLA unless UNC pulls off a big week in Oregon.

MCFinARL
06-02-2014, 09:58 PM
One note to add is that golf has previously awarded points to teams who make the regional, but do not qualify for the championship. UVA finished 7th in its regional (only top 5 qualified). There are 6 regionals, and each team who finishes 6th, 7th, 8th, etc. will be grouped as a 6 way tie for the directors cup. Some wrenches can be thrown into the pot by teams who tied, or who lost a playoff to advance, but unless there are an excessive number of those, UVA's finish will put its overall placing in the high 30's and will receive about 30-35 points for this. Unless Duke makes up ground in track, it is likely that they will finish behind UVA. My count had UVA at 8 men's sports as of the last update, with baseball being 9. Golf would currently be the lowest so their track team would need to score more than that to count, but I suspect that even with a super regional loss in baseball, they will stay ahead of Duke. I haven't seen Penn State mentioned yet, but they're sending 15 athletes to the track and field championship and scored about 100 combined directors cup points last year, so I suspect they'll pass Duke as well.

The other wild card is UCLA. I have no idea if they have 10 sport issues, but they had a 12 place finish in Rowing (worth 54 points last year), a T5 in Men's golf (72.75), a T9 in Softball (64), plus 812.75 points as of the previous update for a total of 1003.5 before track, and they are sending 11 athletes to Eugene. They might have 10 sport issues that make these totals moot but that appears to be the closest race Duke has.

All of that put together would put Duke in 6th or 7th place depending on UCLA unless UNC pulls off a big week in Oregon.

Yes, I have been assuming Penn State would probably pass Duke as well, though I didn't mention them in my most recent post. Some of their track and field people finished fairly high at the regionals and thus could be competitive at nationals. I don't think they have 10 sports yet in either men or women.

I didn't realize points were awarded for regional golf. That does suggest that UVA will pretty definitely pass Duke.

MCFinARL
06-04-2014, 10:06 AM
Florida wins the women's college world series, which will vault them into second place; this is their 11th women's sport, so the 100 points for softball will replace the 28 points they earned for women's cross country, for a net added 72 points. Along with the 25 points for baseball (Florida still has plenty of room to score men's teams), this will put them 72 points ahead of Duke; they are likely to add a lot of points in men's track (with an expected top-5 finish and a reasonable chance to win) and a few in women's track (they are ranked very highly there as well, but would have to drop a 50-point sport to count the track points).

While they still won't be able to approach Stanford, Florida should have a pretty solid lock on second place, as the other teams that are close to them now won't be earning as many points--Penn State has a shot at some track points but won't beat Florida, and they have no baseball or softball points; Notre Dame will get some softball and crew points, but those won't exceed Florida's totals from softball and baseball, and they won't beat Florida at track either.

dpslaw
06-10-2014, 10:44 AM
The latest Directors' Cup standings, which include everything but baseball, were released today. Duke is in fourth place behind Stanford, Notre Dame, and Florida. Only Virginia, currently in seventh place will pass Duke in the final standings. Somewhat shockingly, it appears that Notre Dame will hold off Florida for second place, due to the latter's minimal baseball points.

Fifth place ain't too shabby, particularly considering Duke's early out in men's basketball!

roywhite
06-10-2014, 11:42 AM
Yes, I have been assuming Penn State would probably pass Duke as well, though I didn't mention them in my most recent post. Some of their track and field people finished fairly high at the regionals and thus could be competitive at nationals. I don't think they have 10 sports yet in either men or women.

I didn't realize points were awarded for regional golf. That does suggest that UVA will pretty definitely pass Duke.

Just a note here on Track and Field.

The NCAA championships run this week. Unfortunately, decathlete Curtis Beach will not be competing. He's headed off to have elbow surgery and we hope to see his return to the sport. With good health and continued development (esp. in the throwing events), he can be a factor on the national scene, with some chance of making an Olympic team.

Congratulations to Curtis on a fine career at Duke, which included two NCAA Indoor Heptathlon championships.

Duke Qualifies 3 Individuals & Relay for NCAA Champ.
(http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22490&SPID=1835&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209514496&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

Duke will be represented at the NCAA championships as noted in this goduke.com piece

drhbre
06-10-2014, 12:04 PM
The latest Directors' Cup standings, which include everything but baseball, were released today. Duke is in fourth place behind Stanford, Notre Dame, and Florida. Only Virginia, currently in seventh place will pass Duke in the final standings. Somewhat shockingly, it appears that Notre Dame will hold off Florida for second place, due to the latter's minimal baseball points.

Fifth place ain't too shabby, particularly considering Duke's early out in men's basketball!


I think UCLA could also pass Duke. They are 21 points behind Duke and are currently ranked 25th in Men's Track and Field. A 25th place finish would be worth more than 21 points.

dpslaw
06-10-2014, 01:30 PM
Apologies for misreading the schedule. I thought track and field, which hasn't yet occurred, was included.
*sigh* Never mind.

Olympic Fan
06-10-2014, 04:25 PM
Yes, baseball and track and field are still to be included ...

While Duke is ranked fourth in the current standings, Virginia, which reached the College World Series, is already guaranteed enough points in baseball to pass us. Agree that UCLA is likely to pass us too. That would drop us to sixth place, which I think is our best possible scenario,

That leaves Penn State, which remains one-quarter point behind Duke, They are out of baseball too, but as somebody pointed out, they have some track performers. If they do better in T&F, we drop to seventh.

I think we stay ahead of North Carolina -- they are currently 93.50 points behind, but that doesn't include the 25 points they got for baseball .. a year ago, they got zero points for track and field. Unless that changes big time, our lead over them is safe.

Still, we'll almost certainly finish third in the ACC (behind Notre Dame and Virginia).

Next record (which includes Track and Field results) is June 19.

MCFinARL
06-11-2014, 10:44 AM
Just a note here on Track and Field.

The NCAA championships run this week. Unfortunately, decathlete Curtis Beach will not be competing. He's headed off to have elbow surgery and we hope to see his return to the sport. With good health and continued development (esp. in the throwing events), he can be a factor on the national scene, with some chance of making an Olympic team.

Congratulations to Curtis on a fine career at Duke, which included two NCAA Indoor Heptathlon championships.

Duke Qualifies 3 Individuals & Relay for NCAA Champ.
(http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22490&SPID=1835&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209514496&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

Duke will be represented at the NCAA championships as noted in this goduke.com piece

Thanks so much for the information on Curtis Beach. I had wondered why he was not competing. Presumably the injury may have contributed to his surprising 3rd place decathlon finish (behind 2 Duke teammates) at the ACC championships as well. I echo your congratulations and thanks to Curtis for an excellent Duke career; it has been a pleasure following his achievements.

From a Director's Cup perspective, Beach is a major loss, as he produced some significant points last year; on the women's side, where Juliet Botorff has a chance to score in two events, Duke already has 10 sports, as has been noted earlier--so any track and field points will help only if they are more than the 22 points earned in our lowest current women's sport--and then the score will only be increased by the number above 22.

sagegrouse
06-11-2014, 02:17 PM
Thanks so much for the information on Curtis Beach. I had wondered why he was not competing. Presumably the injury may have contributed to his surprising 3rd place decathlon finish (behind 2 Duke teammates) at the ACC championships as well. I echo your congratulations and thanks to Curtis for an excellent Duke career; it has been a pleasure following his achievements.

From a Director's Cup perspective, Beach is a major loss, as he produced some significant points last year; on the women's side, where Juliet Botorff has a chance to score in two events, Duke already has 10 sports, as has been noted earlier--so any track and field points will help only if they are more than the 22 points earned in our lowest current women's sport--and then the score will only be increased by the number above 22.

The shoulder injury explains why he only threw the javelin about 100 feet in the ACC's -- but he still placed third!

SCMatt33
06-12-2014, 10:53 PM
Juliet Botorff finishes in 3rd in the 10,000 for 6 team points. That probably won't get the team above the 22 point threshold by itself, so it remains to be seen if Duke can add to it's total. Penn State has already gotten some points on the board as has UCLA, so it's likely that Duke will need to score points to stay ahead of either.

MCFinARL
06-13-2014, 08:22 AM
Juliet Botorff finishes in 3rd in the 10,000 for 6 team points. That probably won't get the team above the 22 point threshold by itself, so it remains to be seen if Duke can add to it's total. Penn State has already gotten some points on the board as has UCLA, so it's likely that Duke will need to score points to stay ahead of either.

The women's 4x400 meter relay has already run, finishing 17th--really quite a good effort as it was the first time the Duke women have ever sent a 4x400 relay to the NCAA championships. But no team points from that. So the only remaining women's event where Duke can score points is the 5000, where Juliet Botorff will be running Saturday. I believe the 10,000 is her better event, but we'll see.

On the men's side, Brian Atkinson finished in a very respectable 14th in the 10,000 meters for second-team All-American honors but no team points; the remaining competitor is Thomas Lang, who will compete in the Javelin on Saturday.

It's hard to get a lot of director's cup points in track and field, as so many teams participate in the meet and score points. Last year the Duke women scored 2 team points, which tied them for 53rd and resulted in 17.5 director's cup points; Penn State scored 9 team points, which tied them for 29 and resulted in 44 director's cup points. If the rankings hold with last year's (which, of course, they may not), Botorff's six points would result in a tie for 39th place and a resulting 32.5 director's cup points, which would add 10.5 to Duke's total as the T&F points would replace the women's swimming points. If Thomas Lang can place anywhere in a point scoring position, Duke will earn some points--last year Curtis Beach's 7th place decathlon finish was worth 2 championship points and 5 director's cup points.

But if Penn State earns even one more point than Duke at the championships it will finish higher and pass Duke in the director's cup; UCLA is likely to finish a lot higher in both men's and women's track and field.

MCFinARL
06-15-2014, 09:50 AM
Juliet Botorff ran a personal best time to finish fifth in the 5000 meters and earn two first-team all-American honors at the Track and Field championships. She single handedly gave the Duke women a 22-place finish, which should earn 45-50 Director's Cup points and thus increase Duke's total by 20-something after those points replace the swimming points. Not sure it will be enough to hold of the various teams that could pass Duke, however. Penn State finished a lot higher on the women's side and also placed (although pretty far down) on the men's side, and i don't believe they are over 10 sports on either side.

Olympic Fan
06-19-2014, 12:29 PM
The latest Director's Cup standings were released today and Duke has dropped to 7th place.

These standings include everything except baseball. That makes it relatively easy to calculate Duke's finish. The Devils can't gain on anybody because they were shut out in baseball.

But No. 8 Virginia (23 points back) and No. 9 Texas (41 points back) are both in the College World Series and no matter how they finish, they will get enough points to pass Duke.

I can't see anybody else getting enough baseball points to pass us. FSU (82 points back) might have if the Seminoles had gotten out of the baseball regionals, but they went 0-2 and will get minimum points (25 I think ... but even if they get 50, that's not near enough).

So while it won't be official for another couple of weeks, it's pretty certain -- 9th place ... Duke's fifth top 10 finish in the last 10 years.

sagegrouse
06-19-2014, 12:58 PM
The latest Director's Cup standings were released today and Duke has dropped to 7th place.

These standings include everything except baseball. That makes it relatively easy to calculate Duke's finish. The Devils can't gain on anybody because they were shut out in baseball.

But No. 8 Virginia (23 points back) and No. 9 Texas (41 points back) are both in the College World Series and no matter how they finish, they will get enough points to pass Duke.

I can't see anybody else getting enough baseball points to pass us. FSU (82 points back) might have if the Seminoles had gotten out of the baseball regionals, but they went 0-2 and will get minimum points (25 I think ... but even if they get 50, that's not near enough).

So while it won't be official for another couple of weeks, it's pretty certain -- 9th place ... Duke's fifth top 10 finish in the last 10 years.

Good stuff, OF. Personally, I thought the stats were more meaningful back when we were second. -- Kindly, sage