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Mudge
05-23-2014, 03:05 PM
I am surprised not to see any thread or comments here on the USA Today editorial/remarks by Boise State's President Kustra (which was cited in a story on the main page of DBR). http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/05/21/3195511/boise-state-president-bob-kustra.html?sp=/99/101/1272/1805/ So, I'll start:

I think there was quite a bit of truth in what BSU's president said-- and also a lot of (either) disingenuity or simple-minded delusionalism. On the one hand, yes, of course the big conferences are trying to find ways to keep virtually all of the financial benefits of high-level college sports to themselves (that's what profit-seeking companies in a capitalist environment do-- and the vast majority of US colleges long since stopped being non-profit entities-- they may call themselves that, but they long ago realized that they could charge nearly whatever they want, in the face of relatively inelastic demand for their products-- and they use that inelastic demand to fund a virtually bottomless pit of new projects, buildings, and staff/salary increases.) And, yes, of course, the current slate of benefits offered to Division 1 scholarship athletes is more than generous, and in no way, shape, or form requires augmentation to make it "fair"—so, in some respects, BSU's president is right to complain about being forced by an "arms-race" to up the ante on the benefits his school offers to scholarship athletes.

On the other hand (as someone who believes firmly in the corrosive effects of "big-time" college athletics on the academic atmosphere of this country in general, and American universities in particular), there is absolutely no reason that Boise State HAS to participate in this ridiculous arms race of intercollegiate athletics-- the University of Chicago opted out decades ago (leaving the Big 10 in the 1946), and is certainly no worse the wear for it-- I'd argue that the U. of Chicago is superior academically to 99.9% of the of all the schools in this country (regularly ranked in the Top 20 academic schools, and often in the Top 5)-- and after all, that is the true purpose of an institution of higher learning, isn't it? All of the rest of these schools are only letting themselves get dragged off track, to greater or lesser degrees. I'd be the first person to stand up and shout "Hallelujah", if every college in this country today renounced ALL intercollegiate athletics (and athletic scholarships) in favor of nothing other than intramural teams (coached only by fellow students-- or no one)-- it would be a great day for the economic competitiveness of our country, if we could make that happen immediately-- the US would quickly start to produce a more learned and educated work force that would be a more fierce, enhanced competitor in every field of global commerce-- that's my first reason for disagreeing with BSU's President.

Secondly, President Kustra is either disingenuous or willfully obtuse, if he thinks that he (and all of his peers in positions of leadership in colleges across this country) are not profiteering at the expense of (some) college athletes. While it is true that most college athletic departments do not cover their own costs, and even most Division 1 football programs are break-even propositions at best, this is not because there is not far more money coming in to those programs than is being distributed back out (in the form of scholarship benefits) to the athletes in men's football and basketball-- the break-even or money-losing nature of most athletic departments has to do with egregious expenditures on coaching staffs, facilities, travel, recruiting, etc.-- not because these colleges are coming anywhere close to broadly sharing the actual revenue from men’s football/basketball with the players.

So, yes, I agree with Kustra-- these college players get MORE than a good deal on their scholarships (and non-revenue sport participants have NO basis for complaining whatsoever)-- if these high-profile players don't like the deal they're getting, then DON'T SIGN IT-- go out and see how much you can make on your own, building your own brand and rep with some semi-pro team or as an independent businessman/contractor-- if you are worth so much, then by all means, GO-- get on with it, be on your way, and get what you're (allegedly) worth, in your chosen profession/career... But, having said that, let us not dispute that the players on big-time football/basketball programs are still getting a small fraction of the economic benefits that they (help) generate-- and Kustra and his peers are using that excess (undistributed) economic profit (resulting from "underpaying" these athletes) to subsidize a wide range of other things of their own choosing (coaches, buildings, programs, non-revenue sports, etc.)-- so, Kustra, don't be acting all lily-white and virtuous about your activities (and offended at those who would change the status quo), as if you aren't profiteering on the backs of relatively low-paid, unskilled labor-- the fact that these young men get a great deal on a scholarship doesn't obviate the fact that you COULD afford to pay them far more-- and are quite happy with the current state of affairs which prevents you (and all of your would-be competitors) from upping the ante to these players in any meaningful way. Both the college powers-that-be and the players should be mindful of the old saying about "not looking a gift-horse in the mouth."

cspan37421
05-23-2014, 11:41 PM
Well said! wish I could spork you, but the system says I already have too much of a mudge-crush.

Papa John
05-24-2014, 11:02 AM
...and the vast majority of US colleges long since stopped being non-profit entities-- they may call themselves that, but they long ago realized that they could charge nearly whatever they want, in the face of relatively inelastic demand for their products-- and they use that inelastic demand to fund a virtually bottomless pit of new projects, buildings, and staff/salary increases.

Agree, US colleges are clearly no-longer non-profit entities... The ugly reality, however, is that education funding is the next big financial bubble being primed to burst. And when it does, it's going to be ugly... Colleges can delude themselves about "inelastic demand" for their product, but the fact of the matter is that they have hyper-inflated the sticker prices for their services, largely through this ridiculous arms race mentality (and athletics constitutes only one theater of operations, to extend the military analogy—certainly an important one from a marketing standpoint...) and largely subsidized by funding from a federal government that is financially way over-extended itself and will be having its 'come-to-Jesus' moment within the next decade when the band-aids on its two biggest non-discretionary programs fail...


...these college players get MORE than a good deal on their scholarships (and non-revenue sport participants have NO basis for complaining whatsoever)-- if these high-profile players don't like the deal they're getting, then DON'T SIGN IT-- go out and see how much you can make on your own, building your own brand and rep with some semi-pro team or as an independent businessman/contractor-- if you are worth so much, then by all means, GO-- get on with it, be on your way, and get what you're (allegedly) worth, in your chosen profession/career...

Of course, the big problem with this suggestion is that the professional leagues that the kids we're talking about aspire to play in won't allow this. For the revenue sports (football, basketball), there is an agreement between the league and the players' union in each case that makes it impossible for them to 'get on with it.' In fact, the NBA is considering extending that restriction by an additional year, and that is likely to become a reality...


But, having said that, let us not dispute that the players on big-time football/basketball programs are still getting a small fraction of the economic benefits that they (help) generate-- and Kustra and his peers are using that excess (undistributed) economic profit (resulting from "underpaying" these athletes) to subsidize a wide range of other things of their own choosing (coaches, buildings, programs, non-revenue sports, etc.)-- so, Kustra, don't be acting all lily-white and virtuous about your activities (and offended at those who would change the status quo), as if you aren't profiteering on the backs of relatively low-paid, unskilled labor-- the fact that these young men get a great deal on a scholarship doesn't obviate the fact that you COULD afford to pay them far more-- and are quite happy with the current state of affairs which prevents you (and all of your would-be competitors) from upping the ante to these players in any meaningful way. Both the college powers-that-be and the players should be mindful of the old saying about "not looking a gift-horse in the mouth."

Bottom line [in my humble opinion, of course]—Kustra is a hypocrite... He's whining because Boise State is on the outside looking in with respect to the inevitable mega-conference re-organization of major revenue collegiate athletics. They tried to favorably position themselves to grab a piece of the revenue pie by moving to the Big East [which had a seat at the big kids' table], and then the Big East blew up, so now he's expressing his distaste for the greed that permeates collegiate athletics.

Best way to completely solve these problems is for all of us to stop watching... Unfortunately, I don't see that happening... I sure know I'm not going to... And, yes, I am well aware that makes me a hypocrite as well... ;)

TampaDuke
05-24-2014, 11:25 AM
On the one hand, yes, of course the big conferences are trying to find ways to keep virtually all of the financial benefits of high-level college sports to themselves (that's what profit-seeking companies in a capitalist environment do-- and the vast majority of US colleges long since stopped being non-profit entities-- they may call themselves that, but they long ago realized that they could charge nearly whatever they want, in the face of relatively inelastic demand for their products-- and they use that inelastic demand to fund a virtually bottomless pit of new projects, buildings, and staff/salary increases.)

Not that I disagree with your basic point, but this phenomenon is not limited to profit-seeking companies in a capitalist environment. it appears to be just as prevalent in government and even non-profit entities.

pfrduke
05-24-2014, 11:53 AM
I'd be the first person to stand up and shout "Hallelujah", if every college in this country today renounced ALL intercollegiate athletics (and athletic scholarships) in favor of nothing other than intramural teams (coached only by fellow students-- or no one)-- it would be a great day for the economic competitiveness of our country, if we could make that happen immediately-- the US would quickly start to produce a more learned and educated work force that would be a more fierce, enhanced competitor in every field of global commerce

You seem to be arguing that intercollegiate athletics is in some way fundamentally inconsistent with national economic competitiveness. I'm curious why you believe that to be the case. Is it purely a diversion of resources point (e.g., money spent on athletics that could be spent on academics/innovation)? Is it an issue where people misperceive the purpose of universities (i.e., alumni and students tend to view them as sports institutions and thus that's how they measure their donations/contributions or treat their time at the institution, respectively)? Why would the nation's economic status be better if intercollegiate athletics fully disappeared?

mgtr
05-24-2014, 04:29 PM
I have no problem with the comments made here, but I wonder if a different slant adds anything. Since (in revenue sports) one or more years of college adds to income of pro players, why shouldn't they pay back their scholarships after graduation? Sure, the institution got plenty from the athlete (other than financial), but the athlete (if successful) got more than plenty after college. But this is a terribly sticky wicket, because what most pro teams are paying for is raw talent, not some finely honed technician. At the end of the day, there is no simple answer to any of this!

Papa John
05-26-2014, 01:14 PM
I have no problem with the comments made here, but I wonder if a different slant adds anything. Since (in revenue sports) one or more years of college adds to income of pro players, why shouldn't they pay back their scholarships after graduation? Sure, the institution got plenty from the athlete (other than financial), but the athlete (if successful) got more than plenty after college. But this is a terribly sticky wicket, because what most pro teams are paying for is raw talent, not some finely honed technician. At the end of the day, there is no simple answer to any of this!

Interesting idea, though I'm not sure how you draw a distinction between the perceived benefits the revenue athlete receives during his years in college versus, say, the future investment banker, neurosurgeon, lawyer, software engineer, etc. If we are to compel the revenue athlete to pay back their scholarship once they enjoy success, should we not also compel folks in other professions to pay back any scholarship funds or grants in aid they may have received as well?

Mind you, I'm not saying I disagree with your slant here, as it presents an interesting direction. But it does beg a question of where you draw the line. Perhaps, to amend your suggestion, you require the revenue athlete to pay back any scholarship money received if they leave early to go pro and fail to finish their degree within a specified number of years (let's say five, for sake of argument). So if an athlete leaves after his freshman year, he has four years to complete his degree, and he needs to pay his own way to complete the program during those four years. If he chooses not to do so, that's fine, but he then needs to pay back the full value of the scholarship he received for the one year of college by the end of the five year period (i.e., graduate or pay back within the window). Question is, how much of an incentive is that, really, for a kid to finish his degree, and how much of a disincentive is that to not leave early... I'm guessing not much either way...