Dumars legacy

[BD80]

Sure Joe Dumars had lost a bit of the magic he once had in building a championship but the playoffs still evidence his skill in finding talent late in the first round and in the 2nd round:

Brian Cardinal - 2nd round 2000 draft - 12 year NBA career
Mehmet Okur - 2nd round 2001 draft - 2006-7 all star - 10 year NBA career - >10 ppg - NBA championship
Tayshaun Prince - 23rd pick 2002 draft - 13 year NBA career - just eliminated from playoffs - NBA championship, Olympic Gold Medal
Carlos Delfino - 25th pick 2003 draft - 8+ yr NBA career - just eliminated from playoffs
Amir Johnson - 2nd round (56th pick) 2005 draft - 9+ yr NBA career - starting PF Raptors - in playoffs
Arron Afflalo - 27th pick 2007 draft - 7+ yr NBA career - starting SG last 5 years Nuggets/Magic
Chase Buddinger - 2nd round 2009 draft - 5+ yr NBA career - avg 20 mpg Hou/Minn
Kyle Singler - 2nd round 2011 draft - 2 year starter with Pistons - in 2015 playoffs
Khris Middleton - 2nd round 2012 draft - starter (3/4 season 2013-4) Bucks

[Olympic Fan]

Sure Joe Dumars had lost a bit of the magic he once had in building a championship but the playoffs still evidence his skill in finding talent late in the first round and in the 2nd round:

Brian Cardinal - 2nd round 2000 draft - 12 year NBA career
Mehmet Okur - 2nd round 2001 draft - 2006-7 all star - 10 year NBA career - >10 ppg - NBA championship
Tayshaun Prince - 23rd pick 2002 draft - 13 year NBA career - just eliminated from playoffs - NBA championship, Olympic Gold Medal
Carlos Delfino - 25th pick 2003 draft - 8+ yr NBA career - just eliminated from playoffs
Amir Johnson - 2nd round (56th pick) 2005 draft - 9+ yr NBA career - starting PF Raptors - in playoffs
Arron Afflalo - 27th pick 2007 draft - 7+ yr NBA career - starting SG last 5 years Nuggets/Magic
Chase Buddinger - 2nd round 2009 draft - 5+ yr NBA career - avg 20 mpg Hou/Minn
Kyle Singler - 2nd round 2011 draft - 2 year starter with Pistons - in 2015 playoffs
Khris Middleton - 2nd round 2012 draft - starter (3/4 season 2013-4) Bucks

Some good picks, but you cherry-pick the successes and overlook the failures.

Dumars will always be linked with the 2003 draft -- with the second pick, he takes Darko Milicic ... the next three guys taken are Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade ... how did that work out?

That was the same year he got Carlos Delfino with the 25th pick ... a nice player, but just behind Delfino were Kendrick Perkins, Leandro Barbosa and Josh Howard, who all had better NBA careers.

You're right, he picked up a nice player in Amir Johnson at the very end of the second round of the 2005 draft ... but you neglect to mention that he blew the Pistons' No. 1 pick (Jason Maxwell?) ... he picked him just before David Lee was taken. Same thing happens in 2000 -- he blows the first round pick (Mateen Cleaves) and manages a nice second-round pickup (Cardinal). Again in 2001 -- he finds a late gem in Okur after blowing the first round pick (Rodney White).

I don't mean to pick and choose to trash the guy ... I think his overall record shows the ability to find unappreciated talent late in the draft. But it also shows and incredible inability to land top talent at the top of the draft. Dumars got a lot of value from the second round ... but he was a disaster picking first-round guys -- which is why the Pistons are a struggling franchise today.

[blazindw]

Some good picks, but you cherry-pick the successes and overlook the failures.

Dumars will always be linked with the 2003 draft -- with the second pick, he takes Darko Milicic ... the next three guys taken are Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade ... how did that work out?

As a Pistons fan, I have always said this: if we don't take Darko (aka the Human Victory Cigar), we don't win the title in 2004 and we don't almost win in 2005 (we should have won...stupid Robert Horry). If we take Melo, we trade Prince and we don't get Sheed at the trade deadline that season, which in my mind was the missing link. If we get Bosh, we don't need Sheed and don't get him. If we get Wade, we trade Rip Hamilton and probably don't get Sheed in that scenario either. Long-term it didn't work out, but in the short term, Darko--in the minds of many Pistons fans--allowed the other chips we needed to fall in place to make the run that we made.


You're right, he picked up a nice player in Amir Johnson at the very end of the second round of the 2005 draft ... but you neglect to mention that he blew the Pistons' No. 1 pick (Jason Maxwell?) ... he picked him just before David Lee was taken. Same thing happens in 2000 -- he blows the first round pick (Mateen Cleaves) and manages a nice second-round pickup (Cardinal). Again in 2001 -- he finds a late gem in Okur after blowing the first round pick (Rodney White).

I don't mean to pick and choose to trash the guy ... I think his overall record shows the ability to find unappreciated talent late in the draft. But it also shows and incredible inability to land top talent at the top of the draft. Dumars got a lot of value from the second round ... but he was a disaster picking first-round guys -- which is why the Pistons are a struggling franchise today.

Jason Maxiell was who you're thinking of...and he wasn't a star but was a great complement on the Pistons for 8 seasons. You're definitely right on the others like Rodney White and Brian Cardinal. I still am salty for us letting Memo go after the 2004 title.

[BD80]

As a Pistons fan, ... I still am salty for us letting Memo go after the 2004 title.

The then salary cap rules essentially prohibited us from resigning Okur. It was because he was a second round pick, we couldn't go over the cap to bring him back.

[blazindw]

The then salary cap rules essentially prohibited us from resigning Okur. It was because he was a second round pick, we couldn't go over the cap to bring him back.

Oh, I remember the whole thing, for sure. I just liked him and thought he was a major loss for the Pistons over the long haul. And he always dominated against the Pistons whenever they played the Jazz.

[weezie]

OT but wasn't the "30 for 30" Bad Boys edition great fun to watch? I remember seeing Joe D play tennis at his charity tournament in his salad days...he was one good looking specimen of a man, I am here to tell you....:cool:

I think he tried to stick around too long as GM, maybe just out of loyalty to the Davidson family.

I totes agree w/blazin on the above...Memo was a wonderful addition and a bummer of a loss.

[superdave]

Dumars will always be remembered for three things to most non-Detroit fans:

First, he made moves to get the 2004 NBA title. He drafted Prince and Okur, brought in Billups via free agency, brought in Hamilton, Wallace and Wallace via trade.

Second, he drafted Darko over Melo, Wade and Bosh.

Third, Dumars used up cap space on Charlie Villanueva (5 years, $35m), Ben Gordon (5 years, $55 million) and Josh Smith (4 years, $54 million). None of the guys was a good fit, and he vastly overpaid on all three.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/dumarjo01x.html

Since winning the title in 2004, Detroit was over .500 for the next four seasons but has been below .500 for the last six seasons. Truly a mixed bag.

[Li_Duke]

The list of incompetent GMs is long (I. Thomas, Khan, and many more) and the list of great GMs is short (Auerbach, Buford, Riley, West, maybe a few others). As so franchises win championships, Dumars the GM will eventually be remembered for his 2004 championship.

[greybeard]

Dumars' ego driven decision to get rid of Larry Brown was the beginning of the end. Dumars wanted Brown out because Brown, not Dumars, was getting all the love for the team's success. Dumars thought it belonged to him, and that anybody could win a championship with the guys he, Dumars, had assembled, and he hired Flip to prove it. Flip got a ride off the "team" that Brown had made of the players Flip inherited, but the team was not close to the same as when Brown coached them. When the leader is that self-absorbed, the ship sinks. So it was with Joe.

[-jk]

Dumars' ego driven decision to get rid of Larry Brown was the beginning of the end. Dumars wanted Brown out because Brown, not Dumars, was getting all the love for the team's success. Dumars thought it belonged to him, and that anybody could win a championship with the guys he, Dumars, had assembled, and he hired Flip to prove it. Flip got a ride off the "team" that Brown had made of the players Flip inherited, but the team was not close to the same as when Brown coached them. When the leader is that self-absorbed, the ship sinks. So it was with Joe.

If you say so. But it would be nice to see Larry Brown have a track record of sticking around - somewhere! - before I leant credence to any other explanation. It's been his modus operandi for, well, forever.

-jk