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Olympic Fan
09-09-2007, 11:34 AM
I'm not ready to fire Ted Roof, but after Duke's 0-2 start this season, I understand and accept that it very well might be necessary to make a coaching change at the end of this season. I'll be hoping and pulling for Ted to get over the hump in the final 10 games, but I think most of us would agree that if he adds another 0-12 season (or even 1-11 or 2-12), Duke would have to make a change.

I see by reading various threads on this board and at the other Duke sites, that Duke fans have already started speculating about a replacement. That's become an internet tradition and it's fun to throw out names and dream about guys like Bill Cowher, Paul Johnson, June Jones, George O'Leary ... hey what about Bill Parcells -- he's not working now!

In anymost every case, that's fruitless speculation. Most of those guys wouldn't come to Duke for $10 million a year. Maybe there is one who would come with the right financial incentive and the right guarantees of university support. Maybe there's a hot young head coach at a smaller college who would be a perfect fit at Duke. Maybe there's even a brilliant young assistant coach who is the right guy.

The fact is that we don't know ... I mean, we know a bunch of good coaches, but we don't know which established coach MIGHT be interested coming to Duke ... which small college coach is likely to be a good fit ... which assistant would be worth a gamble.

In the real world, that decision would be made by the athletic director, who is hopefully well-connected enough and a good enough judge of character and coaching ability to know those things.

Do any of you trust Joe Alleva to be that person?

It's not that his major hires have been disasters (yeah, I know that Dankowski worked out great ... I just wish Bill Cowher's son played on our football team), his two previous tries at fixing the football program have only gotten us into a deeper hole.

The 1998 hire of Carl Franks was inexcusable (contrary to what one poster claimed on another thread, Steve Spurrier did NOT gave Franks an enthusiastic recommendation ... he told Alleva that Franks should serve as offensive coordinator for a few years before being considered as a head coach). Worse, Alleva made that hire at a time when a number of promising coaches were very interested in the Duke job -- I know that both Ralph Friedgen (then the top offensive coordinator in the nation) and Paul Johnson (in the midst of his record-setting run at Georgia Southern) both asked for interviews, but were both rejected.

The choice of Roof in 2003 doesn't bother me as much as the fact that Alleva has so few options. Basically, it came down to Roof, an aging Bobby Ross (and if you think he was the right choice, look and see what he did at Army) and Dick Biddle, a winner in a non-scholarship league. My problem is that somebody with better connections or more drive should have lined up better options -- Norm Chow was interested, but had some demands that scared off Alleva ... Paul Johnson wouldn't return his phone calls.

I fear that if Alleva is in charge of the coming hire, he'll come up with a similar list of lame candidates. Does he have the insights to find somebody good or the drive to land somebody established? I'm not very confident.

That's why I say IF we have to make a coaching hire after this season, we need to hire Gene Corrigan to head our search.

For those of you who don't know, Corrigan is currently semi-retired up in Charlottesville, where he runs a sports consulting business. He's a 1952 graduate of Duke (where he played soccer and lacrosse). He was the AD at Virginia in the 1970s and at Notre Dame from 1981-87. He left to become commissioner of the ACC in 1987 and held that job for a decade -- serving his last two years as president of the NCAA.

Those who know him -- and I'm sure his buddy Bill Brill will chime in -- understand that he's one of the brightest, best-connected people in sports. He hired Lou Holtz at Notre Dame and as ACC commish, he orchestrated the entry of Florida State into the ACC -- one expansion that did work.

We should learn from our neighbors in Chapel Hill. They have an AD whose track record for hires was every bit as bad as Alleva's. He was responsible for the Torbush and Bunting fiascos and for the Matt Doherty disaster. Thanks to Dean, they landed Roy on the second try (after Baddour botched the first bid for him in 2000). When they fired Bunting and went looking for a new football coach, they hired outside help to take the decision out of Baddour's hands -- and they wound up with a superb hire (grrrh).

Our only chance is to do the same. We don't have an AD we trust, but we have an alumn who is the best in the business at this kind of thing.

If Roof has to be fired -- THEN GENE CORRIGAN MUST BE THE GUY TO MAKE THE NEXT HIRE.

He'll know if there's a hope in h**l of getting Paul Johnson or Bill Cowher -- and if there is a slim chance, he'll give us the best chance to cash in. He'll know if Dick Biddle is the real deal at Colgate or a non-scholarship illusion (sort of like Mark Duffner, whose record as UMass was even better than Biddle's ... or Bunting, whose Div III record was superb). He'll know if there is a football version of Mike Krzyzewski out there who can dig Duke football out of its hole.

I certainly don't know who is the right man to succeed Roof and I suggest that few of you know either. Sadly, I'm pretty certain Alleva doesn't know either.

I can't guarantee that Corrigan will hire a winner, but I'd argue all day that he has a better chance to hitting a home run with this hire than anybody else we could find.

PS Just to be perfectly clear, I am NOT suggesting that we fire Alleva and hire Corrigan as AD. As great as that would be, Corrigan would not take a fulltime job (and the administration is not ready to dump Alleva). I'm only suggesting we hire Corrigan as a consultant -- which is his job now -- and give him the power to run the coaching search.

arnie
09-09-2007, 12:39 PM
Very informative post - for those of us who have attended so many football games in past 10 years, it is very disturbing to think of the time and emotion we have wasted.

I do wonder about one of your statements: you are not advocating removing Alleva, but know he does not have the drive, ability or connections to find an acceptable football coach. I guess I could understand that comment if we substituted cross country for football; but football needs to be a very important part of Duke athletics. If that is not the case, we have no business trying to field a Division 1 team.

Bob Green
09-09-2007, 03:52 PM
Olympic Fan,

Thanks for a great post. It appears we need to start a "Hire Gene Corrigan" movement.

The next hire needs to be a good one. The coaching carousel is a significant contributing factor to the current state of our football program. I looked up the numbers for a previous post, and if my memory serves me correct, we have had nine head coaches over the past 41 years, for an average length of stay of 4.55 years. If he last the season, Coach Roof's tenure will be right at the average.

Bluedawg
09-10-2007, 09:19 AM
Olympic Fan,

Thanks for a great post. It appears we need to start a "Hire Gene Corrigan" movement.

The next hire needs to be a good one. The coaching carousel is a significant contributing factor to the current state of our football program. I looked up the numbers for a previous post, and if my memory serves me correct, we have had nine head coaches over the past 41 years, for an average length of stay of 4.55 years. If he last the season, Coach Roof's tenure will be right at the average.

I've read this before and that number sounds right. The main thing we need is to find a coach that can make progress and stick. What is killing the program is the coaching carousel.

Indoor66
09-10-2007, 11:35 AM
I've read this before and that number sounds right. The main thing we need is to find a coach that can make progress and stick. What is killing the program is the coaching carousel.

Isn't the coaching carousel the result of pressure to win within a fairly limited time frame. Above the reference was to an average of about 4.5 years per coach - hardly enough time to establish a program with the coaches player and program. Wouldn't a 7-8 year time frame be more reasonable in expecting results? The most successful one in past 40± years - Spurrier - never coached his own-recruited team!

hurleyfor3
09-10-2007, 11:51 AM
So if we hire Corrigan and he can't fix the program, does that make Duke football... in-Corrigible?

bill brill
09-10-2007, 03:20 PM
ten years ago, when duke was beginning a search for a new AD, I advocated (to nan) that duke hire gene corrigan. he knew the ADs. he knew what kind of person would be good for duke. the school hired another headhunter -- i still can't imagine why -- and the results were gosh-awful. they kept suggesting people like gene smith, because he was a black former notre dame football player, and bob bowlsby, who was at iowa and wasn't coming to duke. chris hill at utah was another suggestion. duke wound up with nobody, got caught in a time vice of its own making, and had to choose between alleva and tom mickle. I don't know who corrigan would have come up with, but it would have been somebody who would have been a good fit. if something happens and there's a need for a new coach, corrigan would be a better choice than anybody I know. I don't know what they think in the allen building, however.

Patrick Yates
09-10-2007, 03:55 PM
Isn't the coaching carousel the result of pressure to win within a fairly limited time frame. Above the reference was to an average of about 4.5 years per coach - hardly enough time to establish a program with the coaches player and program. Wouldn't a 7-8 year time frame be more reasonable in expecting results? The most successful one in past 40± years - Spurrier - never coached his own-recruited team!

In theory, I agree with you. But I think 7-8 years would be the time frame to really get going as a coach. At Duke that doesn't mean going bowling every year, but rather winning 4-7 games year in, year out. It should not take a coach 2+ years to win a single meaningful game.

As for Spurrier, you have a point, only not really. Keep in mind that he has never been an all star recruiter. He faced constant criticism over this while at Florida, even as he won. His short hook was widely seen as deterrant to players, actually. He is simply a genius at football. He is one of the great offensive minds in the history of the sport, at the college level. His greatness extended to his ability to recognize his failings, defense, and his willingness to address that failing by hiring a defense guy and turning him lose. Witness Spurior going into UGA and winning between the hedges (atmosphere a notch below Cameron, barely), with a team dominated by upperclassmen players he did not recruit, many of whom were recruited by his predecessor's lackluster regime.

Spurrier did not need 7-8 years. He could join the team today, and we would score 10+ points on Saturday vs a good GT defense. By the time we played UNC he would be able to hang 25-30 on them, and he would get a win or two along the way.

We at Duke have to let go of this. Duke got lucky. We gave a chance to a guy with 0 head coaching experience and we lucked out. Lightening may never strike twice. We inadvertently hired a super genius. He didn't need 7-8 years to win.

4-5 years may seem like too short a time. But even a mediocre coach should be able to win a few games in that time frame. Roof's futility does not bode well. His first class are now Jrs. If we were going to win, it would be happening, at least in some small way. We do not expect him to win 6+ games this year. But many on the board were talking about winning 4 games, and those were the most optimistic. Now it appears that may not happen, with 2 of the more beatable teams behind us. After 4+ years a fan base is reasonable not to expect to be mired in a 22 game losing streak in real danger of setting the all-time record for futility.

Patrick Yates

Johnboy
09-10-2007, 04:50 PM
We at Duke have to let go of this. Duke got lucky. We gave a chance to a guy with 0 head coaching experience and we lucked out. Lightening may never strike twice. We inadvertently hired a super genius. He didn't need 7-8 years to win.

First time as a college head coach, yes, but he'd already been a pro head coach in the USFL for a franchise that was pretty darn successful (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Bandits) on the field. He was hardly an unknown quantity and it certainly wasn't inadvertent - he already had a reputation as a genius offensive mind from prior assistant coaching experience at Duke under Red "Red Means Go!" Wilson (Ben Bennett broke seven NCAA passing records running Spurrier's offense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bennett) as Duke). Ben Bennett was no slouch, but I doubt he'd have broken any passing records without Spurrier (or a Spurrier-like system). Tom Butters was just smart enough to hire him (and Duke lucky enough to have already had him as an assistant). Butters had a very good idea what kind of coach he was getting.

grossbus
09-10-2007, 05:24 PM
how good he was. how good we were/are (K) because of him. lament!

:mad:

OZZIE4DUKE
09-10-2007, 06:18 PM
duke wound up with nobody, got caught in a time vice of its own making, and had to choose between alleva and tom mickle.

Not quite the whole story. I begged and pleaded for months with those in Allen Building for an interview, but they never called me back :mad: Oh, what could have been! I certainly couldn't have done a worse job in hiring football coaches than Alleva has.

I hadn't heard the bit about Spurrier recommending Carl Franks as an OC and not as a head coach before.

I love the idea of hiring Gene Corrigan to find our next football coach IF that becomes necessary in the next year or two.

throatybeard
09-10-2007, 06:54 PM
Not quite the whole story. I begged and pleaded for months with those in Allen Building for an interview, but they never called me back :mad: Oh, what could have been! I certainly couldn't have done a worse job in hiring football coaches than Alleva has.

I hadn't heard the bit about Spurrier recommending Carl Franks as an OC and not as a head coach before.

I love the idea of hiring Gene Corrigan to find our next football coach IF that becomes necessary in the next year or two.

You scared them away with that dang horn.

merry
09-10-2007, 10:51 PM
You scared them away with that dang horn.

Either that or the streaking!

Bluedawg
09-11-2007, 08:09 AM
Isn't the coaching carousel the result of pressure to win within a fairly limited time frame. Above the reference was to an average of about 4.5 years per coach - hardly enough time to establish a program with the coaches player and program. Wouldn't a 7-8 year time frame be more reasonable in expecting results? The most successful one in past 40± years - Spurrier - never coached his own-recruited team!

7-8 years is preferred..agreed. However, in that time period a coach must show progress on the field.