WBB: Uconn's "annual drubbing of the other team" National Title Game

[moonpie23]

i have to admit, i don't keep up with rankings and such for women's' BB as much as men, but, do ANY of UCONN's opponents get any pressure on Gino's teams?

seems like the same unbalanced blow out every year...

[Tappan Zee Devil]

i have to admit, i don't keep up with rankings and such for women's' BB as much as men, but, do ANY of UCONN's opponents get any pressure on Gino's teams?

seems like the same unbalanced blow out every year...

In all fairness, Notre Dame lost perhaps their most important player in the elite eight game.

[Saratoga2]

Notre Dame is definitely the second best womens team. It is well coached and has some excellent players but is missing a star who is also good sized, so that magnifies their weakness on the boards. UCONN is just too big and too good inside and Notre Dame is being outclassed. Too bad for them.

[moonpie23]

i'm trying to remember a Uconn Women's game that had some drama….

[uh_no]

i have to admit, i don't keep up with rankings and such for women's' BB as much as men, but, do ANY of UCONN's opponents get any pressure on Gino's teams?

seems like the same unbalanced blow out every year...

*Geno

and yes, they lost to ND three times last year, and 3 times the year before that....the oft quoted stat is ND has won 7 of the last 9.

they're extremely well coached and have talented players, so to beat them you generally need to have at least the latter, and there have be scant teams that have had the talent

ND
Stanford
Bbaylor

are thte names that have rung bellss recently. Unforunately this year, uconn is packing two all american big men...two of the best, if not the best centers in the country in Breanna Stewart and Stephanie Dolson....nobody has the players to compete with that...and ND without achonwa tonight really didn't stand a whole lot of a chance. Even Stanford with Ogwumike couldn't get it done.

With dolson and hartley graduating this year, I'd imagine the team will come back to earth next year. They might yet win it all, but some of the other top teams may be able to put up more of a fight.

It was clear to me last april after uconn beat ND in the semis, that Uconn wasn't going to lose this year. It was a perfect storm of having nearly all of the most important pieces back from a national title team combined with the other top players in the country that had given them fits (namely diggins and Griner) graduating.

I think ND ought to be really good again next year, of course, and uconn. Beyond that, who knows. I haven't looked hard enough to who is returning what....

[eddiehaskell]

Why has Geno stuck around in the women's game? Sticking around for 9 championships seems ridiculous is a sport that isn't that popular. It seems like Geno is the polar opposite of coaches that seek new challenges.

[dukelifer]

Why has Geno stuck around in the women's game? Sticking around for 9 championships seems ridiculous is a sport that isn't that popular. It seems like Geno is the polar opposite of coaches that seek new challenges.

It would be interesting to see him coaching in the Men's game.

[uh_no]

Why has Geno stuck around in the women's game? Sticking around for 9 championships seems ridiculous is a sport that isn't that popular. It seems like Geno is the polar opposite of coaches that seek new challenges.

the 2 million dollar a year contract might have something to do with it....he also prefers coaching people for four years, and often dislikes that the mens game has moved from flowy passing offenses to brute force and physicality.

guy's 60 years old....loves what he does and where he is (as evidenced by his emotional interview after the game)....good for him.

[eddiehaskell]

It would be interesting to see him coaching in the Men's game.I think so, too. If he did decently well, I think more people could legitimately compare him to other great coaches. In my mind, it seems crazy for ESPN to constantly show a graphic comparing Geno and John Wooden.

[brevity]

Too bad I wasted my Title IX pun a few days ago on the Kentucky men. It works better here.

So, an undefeated Notre Dame loses by 21. Can we finally get Congress involved? This isn't sport. This is an antitrust violation.

[nyesq83]

Other than recruiting the greatest athletes (not student athletes)?

[uh_no]

Other than recruiting the greatest athletes (not student athletes)?

the uconn women have a 100% graduation rate among 4 year players.....but hey, why pass up an opportunity to slam uconn, right?

[eddiehaskell]

the 2 million dollar a year contract might have something to do with it....he also prefers coaching people for four years, and often dislikes that the mens game has moved from flowy passing offenses to brute force and physicality.

guy's 60 years old....loves what he does and where he is (as evidenced by his emotional interview after the game)....good for him.2 million is great, but surely a guy with 9 nattys would get close to the same pay in the men's game? Danny Manning only has 2 years of head coaching experience and he turned down 1.25M from Tulsa...Fred Hoiberg signed for 1.5M after only 2 years at ISU. Kevin Ollie makes what 1.3M with a few years experience?

[throatybeard]

2 million is great, but surely a guy with 9 nattys would get close to the same pay in the men's game? Danny Manning only has 2 years of head coaching experience and he turned down 1.25M from Tulsa...Fred Hoiberg signed for 1.5M after only 2 years at ISU.

What does he make compared to Calhoun's last contract, or Ollie's current one?

Remember on the old board software, when I suggested Goestenkors succeed Krzyzewski? That thread got messy in a hurry.

[MCFinARL]

It would be interesting to see him coaching in the Men's game.

As discussed on a DBR thread, in 2010, he said he might consider coaching men if he could coach Duke. Pressed, he admitted he would also consider Carolina. http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?20463-Geno-Auriemma-wants-to-be-Duke-MENS-coach


I think so, too. If he did decently well, I think more people could legitimately compare him to other great coaches. In my mind, it seems crazy for ESPN to constantly show a graphic comparing Geno and John Wooden.

Well, I see your point, but frankly, given the conditions under which Wooden coached (an NCAA tournament in which only the best team from each conference made the tournament, and a Pac-10 conference that was fairly easy for UCLA to dominate), the difference between Wooden's achievement and Auriemma's may not be quite as dramatic as it seems.

[uh_no]

What does he make compared to Calhoun's last contract, or Ollie's current one?

Remember on the old board software, when I suggested Goestenkors succeed Krzyzewski? That thread got messy in a hurry.

ollie makes 1.3, calhoun made something like 2.2 in 2011.

lifetime guaranteed contract vs possibility of failure and likely lower salary in the mens game? not to mention he gets tons of endorsements in the state of CT and is the coach of USA women's basketball....i've had too much of the fiscal arguments in the jabari thread, but it seems the smart move money wise is to stay put.

he built the program from scratch, and if he wants to enjoy the fruits of his labor, more power to him. One could ask the same questions about why K never jumped to the NBA, especially after some of the epic final four stretches....why didn't he want to try his skills at a higher level?

I can't begrudge either guy for doing what they both seem to love.

[MCFinARL]

the uconn women have a 100% graduation rate among 4 year players.....but hey, why pass up an opportunity to slam uconn, right?

Yes. Generally speaking, female college athletes ARE student athletes, for real, at UConn as much as at Duke. The economics of women's sports, even basketball where some women can play professionally, are very different from those of men's revenue sports, and there aren't the same incentives for either teams or players to cut corners on academics.

[Cameron]

In my mind, it seems crazy for ESPN to constantly show a graphic comparing Geno and John Wooden.

Well, both of them are not women who are famous for coaching basketball. The comparison pretty much ends there. While I have much respect for the women's game -- my sister is currently a D-III player in Ohio and a first cousin of mine started for the Ohio State Lady Buckeyes years ago -- there's a reason Phil Jackson's name is never followed by Van Chancellor's. While the same sport, the two games are entirely different animals.

While I'm not arguing that Geno couldn't make the transition, I doubt very seriously he wants to risk it at this stage in his career. By that I mean risk the chance of going from the top of the women's game to the bottom of the men's. He'd have to start out at a mid-major level program (none of the elite schools are going to take a chance on a coach who's never coached men before) and essentially start from scratch by proving that he can not only recruit but also effectively relate to players in the men's game. There would just be a lot of factors to consider IMO.

As for the women's tournament, the only other coach alive apparently capable of winning it no longer has a team. Oh, the drama.

[uh_no]

Well, both of them are not women who are famous for coaching basketball. The comparison pretty much ends there. While I have much respect for the women's game -- my sister is currently a D-III player in Ohio and a first cousin of mine started for the Ohio State Lady Buckeyes years ago -- there's a reason Phil Jackson's name is never followed by Van Chancellor's. While the same sport, the two games are entirely different animals.

While I'm not arguing that Geno couldn't make the transition, I doubt very seriously he wants to risk it at this stage in his career. By that I mean risk the chance of going from the top of the women's game to the bottom of the men's. He'd have to start out at a mid-major level program (none of the elite schools are going to take a chance on a coach who's never coached men before) and essentially start from scratch by proving that he can not only recruit but also effectively relate to players in the men's game. There would just be a lot of factors to consider IMO.

As for the women's tournament, the only other coach alive apparently capable of winning it no longer has a team. Oh, the drama.

I agree that the comparisons are silly...could he or couldn't he in the mens game? could K do it in the nba? should we be comparing K's titles to phils? K is at the tops of the mens college game, Geno is at the tops of the women's game, Phil is right about the standard in the NBA. Should we compare any of them? probably not....the comparisons are almost as relavent as saying "K has 4 titles but FDR won 4 presidential elections....WHO IS BETTER????"

it's all silly. even comparisons across eras are silly...comparing K to wooden is almost absurd....is wooden 2.5x better than K?

heck, even in the same sport and era, you might not be able to compare....how do you compare cutcliffe to someone like urban meyer?

TL/DR: comparisons are dumb. what auriemma has done and is doing is incredible, and I don't think we need random best lists with wooden or whomever to show that.

[MCFinARL]

Well, both of them are not women who are famous for coaching basketball. The comparison pretty much ends there. While I have much respect for the women's game -- my sister is currently a D-III player in Ohio and a first cousin of mine started for the Ohio State Lady Buckeyes years ago -- there's a reason Phil Jackson's name is never followed by Van Chancellor's. While the same sport, the two games are entirely different animals.

While I'm not arguing that Geno couldn't make the transition, I doubt very seriously he wants to risk it at this stage in his career. By that I mean risk the chance of going from the top of the women's game to the bottom of the men's. He'd have to start out at a mid-major level program (none of the elite schools are going to take a chance on a coach who's never coached men before) and essentially start from scratch by proving that he can not only recruit but also effectively relate to players in the men's game. There would just be a lot of factors to consider IMO.

As for the women's tournament, the only other coach alive apparently capable of winning it no longer has a team. Oh, the drama.

Huh--last time I looked, Kim Mulkey, Gary Blair, Holly Warlick, Brenda Freese, and Muffet McGraw all still had teams, and were all capable of winning the women's tournament, since they have done so, even if they didn't do so this year. So I am not sure I understand your point.

[eddiehaskell]

Well, I see your point, but frankly, given the conditions under which Wooden coached (an NCAA tournament in which only the best team from each conference made the tournament, and a Pac-10 conference that was fairly easy for UCLA to dominate), the difference between Wooden's achievement and Auriemma's may not be quite as dramatic as it seems.I can see the similarity between Wooden and Geno's domination.

Looking back at UCLA's tourney wins, here is what I see....

'64 - Seattle by 5 pts, SF by 4 pts, KSU by 6 pts (Duke by 15 to win it all)
'65 - SF by 8
'67 - no close games
'68 - New Mexico St by 9 pts
'69 - Drake by 3 pts
'70 - no close games
'71 - Long Beach St by 2 pts, Kansas by 8 and Villanova by 6
'72 - FSU by 5 to win it all
'73 - no close games
'75 - Montana by 3, Louisville by 1 and Kentucky by 7

UCLA only had 13 games decided by 10 or less.

It's sorta similar at UConn - few close games and mostly blowing through the field.

'95 - Virginia by 4 and Tenn by 6
'00 - no close games
'02 - no close games
'03 - Texas by 2, Tenn by 5, Purdue by 9
'04 - UC Santa Barbara by 6, Minnesota by 9, Tenn by 9
'09 - no close games
'10 - Stanford by 6
'13 - no close games
'14 - no close games

So there you have it. UConn won 9 nattys and in the process had only 9 games decided by 10 pts or less....only 2 games by 4 or less. This is despite playing 6 tourney games per year and having the tourney open to schools other than conference champions. :D

[eddiehaskell]

ollie makes 1.3, calhoun made something like 2.2 in 2011.

lifetime guaranteed contract vs possibility of failure and likely lower salary in the mens game? not to mention he gets tons of endorsements in the state of CT and is the coach of USA women's basketball....i've had too much of the fiscal arguments in the jabari thread, but it seems the smart move money wise is to stay put.

he built the program from scratch, and if he wants to enjoy the fruits of his labor, more power to him. One could ask the same questions about why K never jumped to the NBA, especially after some of the epic final four stretches....why didn't he want to try his skills at a higher level?

I can't begrudge either guy for doing what they both seem to love.The financial aspect could be argued, but the man is almost 60 years old - shouldn't he be comfortable enough to venture out and "only" make $1M or so? Jabari is in a totally different situation with essentially $0 in his pocket.

Yes, Coach K could go to the NBA, but despite never going, I doubt his legacy is impacted all that much. The same can be said for Dean Smith, Bob Knight and John Wooden. All of these guys are ranked/admired right up there with some of the best NBA coaches.

[Cameron]

Huh--last time I looked, Kim Mulkey, Gary Blair, Holly Warlick, Brenda Freese, and Muffet McGraw all still had teams, and were all capable of winning the women's tournament, since they have done so, even if they didn't do so this year. So I am not sure I understand your point.

Well, Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt do own 17 of the last 28 NCAA women's national championships, including Geno winning 4 of the past 6.

In any case, it was just a remark made in passing and not intended as any type of real point other than simply highlighting the fact that UConn has flat out dominated the women's game the past half-decade.

[eddiehaskell]

While I'm not arguing that Geno couldn't make the transition, I doubt very seriously he wants to risk it at this stage in his career. By that I mean risk the chance of going from the top of the women's game to the bottom of the men's. He'd have to start out at a mid-major level program (none of the elite schools are going to take a chance on a coach who's never coached men before) and essentially start from scratch by proving that he can not only recruit but also effectively relate to players in the men's game. There would just be a lot of factors to consider IMO.
You may be right at his age, but heck 10 years ago he had 5 championships. He could've went to the mens game and back to the womens game in that amount of time. I guess he's just one of those that love what they do and never grow tired of it. Perhaps it's just my curiosity of how he'd do that makes me want to criticize him for not trying his hand at a sport that I follow.

[eddiehaskell]

Well, Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt do own 17 of the last 28 NCAA women's national championships, including Geno winning 4 of the past 6.

In any case, it was just a remark made in passing and not intended as any type of real point other than simply highlighting the fact that UConn has flat out dominated the women's game the past half-decade.That's a lot of championships for just 2 coaches. It makes you wonder if they are simply brilliant basketball minds/recruiters/teachers or just big fish in a small pond. It took arguably the best men's coach 34 years to win just 4. The man in 2nd place won 3 in 40 years.

BTW, would Geno really have to start out at a men's mid-major? Didn't Tennessee offer the men's job to Pat Summitt at one time?

[aswewere]

Nothing will change in most years with them having the best coach plus the
top talent. If the other good teams stop playing them and padding there weak
conference schedule there recruiting will drop off over time. Our game needs
a lot more balance at the top to increase its popularity.

[miramar]

the 2 million dollar a year contract might have something to do with it....he also prefers coaching people for four years, and often dislikes that the men's game has moved from flowy passing offenses to brute force and physicality.

In WBB players listen. And they don't have handlers, AAU coaches, and future agents getting in the way.

Besides, when all is said and done he will be the greatest coach ever in WBB, and that's still pretty good.

[MCFinARL]

Well, Geno Auriemma and Pat Summitt do own 17 of the last 28 NCAA women's national championships, including Geno winning 4 of the past 6.

In any case, it was just a remark made in passing and not intended as any type of real point other than simply highlighting the fact that UConn has flat out dominated the women's game the past half-decade.

I certainly agree with you there. I guess I just took your previous comment too literally.

[eddiehaskell]

In WBB players listen. And they don't have handlers, AAU coaches, and future agents getting in the way.

Besides, when all is said and done he will be the greatest coach ever in WBB, and that's still pretty good.So in a sense, the women's game is a more pure form of basketball. I can see how that would be appealing given the same pay.

However, I still get the sense that he's like the Coach K of DIII men's basketball that never wanted to move up despite having opportunities. In sports we are used to players and coaches constantly taking on difficult challenges (sometimes impossible: '91 Duke/UNLV) so it seems counter intuitive for someone to be perfectly content with staying in what is essentially basketball's version of double A baseball. Heck, wasn't Geno angry that Gampel Pavilion was only half full for UConn's NCAA tournament home games?

[uh_no]

So in a sense, the women's game is a more pure form of basketball. I can see how that would be appealing given the same pay.

However, I still get the sense that he's like the Coach K of DIII men's basketball that never wanted to move up despite having opportunities. In sports we are used to players and coaches constantly taking on difficult challenges (sometimes impossible: '91 Duke/UNLV) so it seems counter intuitive for someone to be perfectly content with staying in what is essentially basketball's version of double A baseball. Heck, wasn't Geno angry that Gampel Pavilion was only half full for UConn's NCAA tournament home games?

he's always angry :)

a lot of his "schtick" is promotional for the women's game....i'm sure he and muffet aren't greatest friends, but no doubt he knew his "won't get wine with her" comment would get a lot of press...he did the same thing with pat a decade ago.

Yeah he doens't like that the women's game often doesn't get respect, but his answer to that is to try to help it gain in popularity rather than simply bail to a more popular sport...now sometimes that's hard to do when you're team blows people out all the time, but he doesn't particularly like that other teams don't play on his teams' levels

[Des Esseintes]

So in a sense, the women's game is a more pure form of basketball. I can see how that would be appealing given the same pay.

However, I still get the sense that he's like the Coach K of DIII men's basketball that never wanted to move up despite having opportunities. In sports we are used to players and coaches constantly taking on difficult challenges (sometimes impossible: '91 Duke/UNLV) so it seems counter intuitive for someone to be perfectly content with staying in what is essentially basketball's version of double A baseball. Heck, wasn't Geno angry that Gampel Pavilion was only half full for UConn's NCAA tournament home games?

It is possible Geno Auriemma doesn't care what you think. He may believe deepening a legacy as greatest coach in the history of women's college basketball is a worthy pastime, even if it leaves DBR poster eddiehaskell with too many questions unanswered.

[eddiehaskell]

It is possible Geno Auriemma doesn't care what you think. He may believe deepening a legacy as greatest coach in the history of women's college basketball is a worthy pastime, even if it leaves DBR poster eddiehaskell with too many questions unanswered.It's not a possibility - it's a certainty. But hey, 99.9999% of what's said on any sports forum isn't cared about by the person the comment is in reference to. Regardless, it wont stop us because talking about people that don't care what we say is a past time, right? :cool:

[eddiehaskell]

Yeah he doens't like that the women's game often doesn't get respect, but his answer to that is to try to help it gain in popularity rather than simply bail to a more popular sport...now sometimes that's hard to do when you're team blows people out all the time, but he doesn't particularly like that other teams don't play on his teams' levelsI guess the question is - does Geno's overall contribution and the lack of parody popularize the game or hinder it? Think about the men's game - when the tourney starts, the fan bases from 68 schools feel like they have a good chance to win. I'd say 45 of those fan bases feel like their team has a chance to do major damage. Heck, even the worst teams (16 seeds) can give the best teams (1 seeds) a run for their money and make millions of fans turn in to see if the upset finally happens...personally, these are some my favorite games because it's often about tied at half time and I hope the 16 seed can put together the 2nd half of their life.

Like I mentioned earlier, UConn has won 9 nattys and in the process had only SIX games decided by less than 9 pts....only TWO games by 4 or less. Imagine if you had watch reruns of every UConn title run - you'd be bored out of your mind.

[eddiehaskell]

This (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/sports/ncaabasketball/official-offers-ways-to-invigorate-womens-basketball.html?_r=0) article pretty much sums up the women's game - specifically this:
When Connecticut won its eighth national women’s basketball championship in April, the celebration felt oddly vacant. The brilliant play of the Huskies against Louisville was witnessed not by a throbbing crowd, but in a half-empty New Orleans Arena.

A curious thing has happened since the N.C.A.A. began sponsoring women’s basketball in 1982. It remains the most popular women’s sport, but its appeal has grown stagnant. Attendance is dropping. Television ratings are flat or in decline. Shooting percentages and scoring have reached all-time lows.

Only one team, Tennessee, averaged more than 10,000 fans last season. Of the 343 women’s teams in Division I, 205 averaged fewer than 1,000 spectators and 90 averaged fewer than 500.

[uh_no]

[QUOTE=eddiehaskell;724754 Imagine if you had watch reruns of every UConn title run - you'd be bored out of your mind.[/QUOTE]

Actually. .. that sounds excellent. ... but it's a great point. .. and even uconn fans are to some extent bored with the state of things. .. what is geno to do though? Try hard to make games closer?

[Kfanarmy]

the 2 million dollar a year contract might have something to do with it....he also prefers coaching people for four years, and often dislikes that the mens game has moved from flowy passing offenses to brute force and physicality.

guy's 60 years old....loves what he does and where he is (as evidenced by his emotional interview after the game)....good for him.

Where could he go where the game lends itself to these long-sustained runs of success, ala Pat Summit. He'll be replaced by a new coach at one of the major programs eventually, and that coach will likely have a similar run. The women's game remains stuck in a noncompetitive era, ala Wooden years of MBB, only its a dearth of elite talent in the women's game that lends to such disparity. If you can get to the top of recruiting for a couple of years and be a good coach, you can have a long run of success without much fear of losing the competitive edge. Moving to the NBA or MBB where there is so much parity would be a welcome challenge for some, but for most is probably a daunting step into seeming obscurity among other great coaches.

[eddiehaskell]

Actually. .. that sounds excellent. ... but it's a great point. .. and even uconn fans are to some extent bored with the state of things. .. what is geno to do though? Try hard to make games closer?I'm not sure what he could do. Perhaps what's good for Geno (sticking around for the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th?, 11th? natty) isn't necessarily good for women's basketball.