Terps blow up

[Olympic Fan]

Maryland just announced that Nick Faust, Roddy Peters and Shaquille Clear are transferring.:


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Zack Bolno – zbolno@umd.edu

April 8, 2014 Sean Ellenby • sellenby@umd.edu

ph. 301.314.7068



Maryland Men’s Basketball Announces Transfers



COLLEGE PARK, Md. – University of Maryland men’s basketball head coach Mark Turgeon announced today that Shaquille Cleare, Nick Faust and Roddy Peters have been granted permission to transfer.



“I really enjoyed coaching Nick, Shaq and Roddy,” Turgeon said. “It is unfortunate that they will no longer be a part of the program. I wish them the very best in their future endeavors.”



Cleare averaged 3.0 points and 2.5 rebounds in 13.8 minutes per game as a sophomore. In 69 career games (28 starts), he averaged 3.4 points and 2.6 rebounds for the Terps.



Faust started 13 games in 32 appearances last season, averaging 9.4 points, 3.7 rebounds and 2.0 assists. In 102 games (66 starts), he averaged 9.3 points and 3.8 rebounds.



Peters appeared in all 32 games during the 2013-14 season, averaging 4.1 points and 2.1 assists in 15.1 minutes per game.


... and don't be surprised if Dez Wells opts for the NBA draft. I know that none of these are their top players (except Wells, if he goes), but all three were in the rotation -- Faust has been an especially important piece for them and Peters is a guy with great potential.


Looks like the ACC is dumping them at just the right time.

[BD80]

Maryland just announced that Nick Faust, Roddy Peters and Shaquille Clear are transferring.:

...

Looks like the ACC is dumping them at just the right time.

Will they be allowed to transfer to ACC schools without penalty? (Other than the standard 1 yr)

Can they petition to play right away due to hardship? As in their former school's administration (and fanbase) is bat crap crazy?

[Duvall]

Let's just hope this is another reason for ESPN to not look at Maryland as ACC-Big Ten challenge opponent for a preseason top 10 team material.

[UrinalCake]

Wow, I can't remember a time when three players transferred away a school at the same time, except in cases of a coach leaving. Maybe an asterisk given to Larry Drew II followed by the Wear twins a couple months later. But seriously, I wonder what's going on here. Problems with the coach? Not getting along with teammates? Academic problems? It would have to be something other than three players simultaneously deciding they just wanted more playing time (which is usually the reason why players transfer)

[Here is a Turtle]

Faust, Cleare and Peters playing time all went down dramatically as the season went on. Faust did not start for two thirds of the season. A lot of his minutes went to Jake Layman. Dez Wells already said he was not going to the NBA. Unless something happened in the last couple hours, he's staying. UMD said they can transfer anywhere they want to go, and I wish them all the best. Three players (or more) transferring happened with Indiana and Northwestern just this year, and it happened at Illinois (5 transfers) a few years back. It's not unheard of. Maryland had 14 scholarships players so we knew someone was transferring. Did not expect 3 though. Maryland has a top 10 class coming in. We'll be fine.

Instead of returning 99% of scoring, it's 77%. The only one I'm really bummed about is Peters. Was not happy to lose him. To say the team is blowing up is far from true.

[Class of '94]

Faust, Cleare and Peters playing time all went down dramatically as the season went on. Faust did not start for two thirds of the season. A lot of his minutes went to Jake Layman. Dez Wells already said he was not going to the NBA. Unless something happened in the last couple hours, he's staying. UMD said they can transfer anywhere they want to go, and I wish them all the best. Three players (or more) transferring happened with Indiana and Northwestern just this year, and it happened at Illinois (5 transfers) a few years back. It's not unheard of. Maryland had 14 scholarships players so we knew someone was transferring. Did not expect 3 though. Maryland has a top 10 class coming in. We'll be fine.

Instead of returning 99% of scoring, it's 77%. The only one I'm really bummed about is Peters. Was not happy to lose him. To say the team is blowing up is far from true.

But I was wondering when Wells said he wasn't going to the NBA? I'm surprised that he wouldn't at least explore his options in regards to the NBA. I like Wells as a player and I'm not sure how much he can raise his stock by staying another year, especially going into a new conference. I think your Indiana comparison is best but I wouldn't use Northwestern since the transfers were most likely due to having a new coach.

That being said, in all honesty, MD going to the BIG this upcoming season might be a good timing for both the men and women's teams. IMO, the heavy hitters of the BIG, teams like MSU, Mich (Morgan is gone; and if Nik Stauskas, Glen Robinson !!!, and possibly a player like Mitch McGary [who will be turning 22 or 23 for next season I believe] or Levert decide to leave for the NBA), and Ohio St (with Craft gone) being at least slightly down next season; MD may actually be in contention for a top 4 or 5 seed. I know it may sound crazy; but if you look at the players they have coming back (especially if Wells does return) in combination with their incoming freshman class, MD might be a very solid team. Of course, their success will also hinge on the effectiveness of the coaching staff and how well they get next year's team over the hump and finish games.

And while there some good women basketball teams in the BIG, I think MD will contend for the top spot in the women's division by virtue of the lack of quality depth in the BIG and not having to play the Dukes, NDs, UNCs, NC State's, Louisvilles, Syracuses, Fla Sts (shall I go on?), etc., that makes the ACC such a tough league to play and win in.

[Here is a Turtle]

But I was wondering when Wells said he wasn't going to the NBA? I'm surprised that he wouldn't at least explore his options in regards to the NBA. I like Wells as a player and I'm not sure how much he can raise his stock by staying another year, especially going into a new conference. I think your Indiana comparison is best but I wouldn't use Northwestern since the transfers were most likely due to having a new coach.

That being said, in all honesty, MD going to the BIG this upcoming season might be a good timing for both the men and women's teams. IMO, the heavy hitters of the BIG, teams like MSU, Mich (Morgan is gone; and if Nik Stauskas, Glen Robinson !!!, and possibly a player like Mitch McGary [who will be turning 22 or 23 for next season I believe] or Levert decide to leave for the NBA), and Ohio St (with Craft gone) being at least slightly down next season; MD may actually be in contention for a top 4 or 5 seed. I know it may sound crazy; but if you look at the players they have coming back (especially if Wells does return) in combination with their incoming freshman class, MD might be a very solid team. Of course, their success will also hinge on the effectiveness of the coaching staff and how well they get next year's team over the hump and finish games.

And while there some good women basketball teams in the BIG, I think MD will contend for the top spot in the women's division by virtue of the lack of quality depth in the BIG and not having to play the Dukes, NDs, UNCs, NC State's, Louisvilles, Syracuses, Fla Sts (shall I go on?), etc., that makes the ACC such a tough league to play and win in.

I would definitely say this situation is closer to Indiana than Northwestern. Even Virginia could be argued to an extent (8 transfers in 4 years).

Wells said he was not going at a team banquet a couple weeks ago. I don't think anything has changed. He would be a late second round pick. Hopefully he goes the Vasquez route. Jr year, everyone thought he was a 2nd round to undrafted prospect, came back senior year and played himself to a 1st round pick. As far as season outlook, I think a top half finish is a baseline considering all the moving parts involved, and a top four or five finish is possible for all the reasons you said earlier.

As far as women's basketball, I would not say it is a cakewalk since they got 6 teams into the tournament this year, but it is not the ACC. I think Maryland will have a top two or three team after struggling at first with Alyssa Thomas leaving then coming on strong. I could see teams like Penn State, Michigan State, or Nebraska pushing us for the top spot.

[MarkD83]

Why is an entire thread devoted to a Big 10 team? I think I'll ignore this thread :rolleyes:

[Here is a Turtle]

Why is an entire thread devoted to a Big 10 team? I think I'll ignore this thread :rolleyes:

Still in the ACC until July.

[Class of '94]

I would definitely say this situation is closer to Indiana than Northwestern. Even Virginia could be argued to an extent (8 transfers in 4 years).

Wells said he was not going at a team banquet a couple weeks ago. I don't think anything has changed. He would be a late second round pick. Hopefully he goes the Vasquez route. Jr year, everyone thought he was a 2nd round to undrafted prospect, came back senior year and played himself to a 1st round pick. As far as season outlook, I think a top half finish is a baseline considering all the moving parts involved, and a top four or five finish is possible for all the reasons you said earlier.

As far as women's basketball, I would not say it is a cakewalk since they got 6 teams into the tournament this year, but it is not the ACC. I think Maryland will have a top two or three team after struggling at first with Alyssa Thomas leaving then coming on strong. I could see teams like Penn State, Michigan State, or Nebraska pushing us for the top spot.

I'm probably completely disrespecting the women's bball teams of the BIG; but I see MD women's basketball dominating the conference and regularly being the top dog of the BIG. I agree that it wouldn't be a cakewalk but I just don't see a program right now in the BIG that has accomplished as much as MD has; and that matches up well with the talent that MD is bringing back for next season.

[Here is a Turtle]

I'm probably completely disrespecting the women's bball teams of the BIG; but I see MD women's basketball dominating the conference and regularly being the top dog of the BIG. I agree that it wouldn't be a cakewalk but I just don't see a program right now in the BIG that has accomplished as much as MD has; and that matches up well with the talent that MD is bringing back for next season.

I don't think you're disrespecting it. Maryland brings back a lot of pieces and just made a final four run that almost no one saw coming. If you forced me to pick where we would end up today, I would say 1st place, but I could see Penn State or Michigan State putting up a fight for the top spot and be a game back or so. Nebraska is more a dark horse.

[Kfanarmy]

I don't think you're disrespecting it. Maryland brings back a lot of pieces and just made a final four run that almost no one saw coming. If you forced me to pick where we would end up today, I would say 1st place, but I could see Penn State or Michigan State putting up a fight for the top spot and be a game back or so. Nebraska is more a dark horse. I guess the transfer to the B1G is worth it then. MD will be respectable in at least one sport! LOL

[Henderson]

I don't think you're disrespecting it. Maryland brings back a lot of pieces and just made a final four run that almost no one saw coming. If you forced me to pick where we would end up today, I would say 1st place, but I could see Penn State or Michigan State putting up a fight for the top spot and be a game back or so. Nebraska is more a dark horse.

In this whole thread you have missed the point: Maryland has three members of the team, all in the rotation last year, who don't want to play at Maryland or got to school at Maryland.

[Here is a Turtle]

In this whole thread you have missed the point: Maryland has three members of the team, all in the rotation last year, who don't want to play at Maryland or got to school at Maryland.

See above where I addressed that '"blow up" is exaggerated and a large portion of it was playing time. Someone asked me about prospects in woman's B1G and I answered.

[Henderson]

See above where I addressed that '"blow up" is exaggerated and a large portion of it was playing time. Someone asked me about prospects in woman's B1G and I answered.

When 25% of your team doesn't want to be on your team or go to your school anymore, I'd say your team has blown up. If you want to use another term like "readjusted" that's fine. They're just words -- symbols for the underlying reality. But regardless of the label attached to it, this is very not good for Maryland. I'd suggest it's not about the number of points being lost, but rather the message being sent. About the school, about the coach, about the team, about the program.

When I hear a big "ka-boom" I'm usually curious about what set that off. In this case, though, I gotta say: I just don't care that much. Just another lesser B1G team with problems.

[BD80]

When 25% of your team doesn't want to be on your team or go to your school anymore, I'd say your team has blown up. If you want to use another term like "readjusted" that's fine. They're just words -- symbols for the underlying reality. But regardless of the label attached to it, this is very not good for Maryland. I'd suggest it's not about the number of points being lost, but rather the message being sent. About the school, about the coach, about the team, about the program.

When I hear a big "ka-boom" I'm usually curious about what set that off. In this case, though, I gotta say: I just don't care that much. Just another lesser B1G team with problems.

Must be something in them B1G waters, promotes transfers in bunches.

[Class of '94]

When 25% of your team doesn't want to be on your team or go to your school anymore, I'd say your team has blown up. If you want to use another term like "readjusted" that's fine. They're just words -- symbols for the underlying reality. But regardless of the label attached to it, this is very not good for Maryland. I'd suggest it's not about the number of points being lost, but rather the message being sent. About the school, about the coach, about the team, about the program.

When I hear a big "ka-boom" I'm usually curious about what set that off. In this case, though, I gotta say: I just don't care that much. Just another lesser B1G team with problems.

It was me that side-tracked the thread to talk briefly about the effects of MD's move on the men's and women's basketball team. To be fair to HereisaTurtle (who imo has been a solid poster here and has never come across as a Troll in any way), he did give his thoughts about the 3 players transferring and the impact of them leaving on the team.

By no means am I a MD supporter based on how they chose to leave the ACC, I have to admit that initially I thought it was a bad for the perception of MD basketball; but after reading about who was leaving, I do thik the perception on the program is mitigated at least somewhat because these players weren't key guys. I equate to when guys left Duke in search of more playing time elsewhere (Alex Murphy being the latest; and I'm keeping my fingers crosses that Semi stays and graduates from Duke). I didn't want them to leave but I understood their reasons; and while some outside of Duke may have tried to paint this as a big issue of perception, the reality was that those players were not key for us and did not have a significant impact on the team up to the point they left. I see MD's situation as being similar (although 3 at one time is a lot); I think the impact of the twins and PG transferring from UNC had a bigger perception on the UNC program because those players had bigger roles imo on those UNC teams (although the stats may say otherwise). Again, jmo.

[Here is a Turtle]

When 25% of your team doesn't want to be on your team or go to your school anymore, I'd say your team has blown up. If you want to use another term like "readjusted" that's fine. They're just words -- symbols for the underlying reality. But regardless of the label attached to it, this is very not good for Maryland. I'd suggest it's not about the number of points being lost, but rather the message being sent. About the school, about the coach, about the team, about the program.

When I hear a big "ka-boom" I'm usually curious about what set that off. In this case, though, I gotta say: I just don't care that much. Just another lesser B1G team with problems.

Since you don't care for a "lesser B1G team," allow me to point you to the team that just won the ACC. Virginia has had eight (8!) transfers in the last four years and already have another transfer (Teven Jones) this year. People outside the program were questioning (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/13/virginia-is-for-leavers-but-why/) why there were so many transfers in that program, and that it was not good for Virginia since they seemed to always be on the cusp of an NCAA tournament birth. Then they win the ACC by two games. People complained about the unbalanced schedule. Then they win the ACC Championship leaving no doubt that they were the best team in the ACC.

Transfers happen. And they happen a lot (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-06-24/Athlete-movement-in-Division-I-basketball-raising-alarm/55798356/1).

If Maryland wins the B1G in a couple years, we will be saying the exact same things then that we are saying about Virginia now. So yes, I will continue to argue that "blow up" is exaggerating the situation until I see something to indicate otherwise.

[lotusland]

It was me that side-tracked the thread to talk briefly about the effects of MD's move on the men's and women's basketball team. To be fair to HereisaTurtle (who imo has been a solid poster here and has never come across as a Troll in any way), he did give his thoughts about the 3 players transferring and the impact of them leaving on the team.

By no means am I a MD supporter based on how they chose to leave the ACC, I have to admit that initially I thought it was a bad for the perception of MD basketball; but after reading about who was leaving, I do thik the perception on the program is mitigated at least somewhat because these players weren't key guys. I equate to when guys left Duke in search of more playing time elsewhere (Alex Murphy being the latest; and I'm keeping my fingers crosses that Semi stays and graduates from Duke). I didn't want them to leave but I understood their reasons; and while some outside of Duke may have tried to paint this as a big issue of perception, the reality was that those players were not key for us and did not have a significant impact on the team up to the point they left. I see MD's situation as being similar (although 3 at one time is a lot); I think the impact of the twins and PG transferring from UNC had a bigger perception on the UNC program because those players had bigger roles imo on those UNC teams (although the stats may say otherwise). Again, jmo.

Agree this is not a big deal. Probably rotation guys who want to be starters. Duke will have regular transfers too if they keep recruiting at the level they are now. You just can't keep 4 and 5-star guys on the bench too long anymore.

[ChillinDuke]

Any chance that this move is partly because these kids wanted to play in the ACC and, as of next year, that is no longer attainable at Maryland?

Not sure if conferences hold that kind of allure these days, but I've heard it mentioned in interviews with recruits numerous times. Whether it's the truth or just political correctness, I have no idea.

- Chillin

[Here is a Turtle]

Any chance that this move is partly because these kids wanted to play in the ACC and, as of next year, that is no longer attainable at Maryland?

Not sure if conferences hold that kind of allure these days, but I've heard it mentioned in interviews with recruits numerous times. Whether it's the truth or just political correctness, I have no idea.

- Chillin

I wouldn't be surprised if that had a part in it. I recall the University said that they could go anywhere so they could definitely wind up in the ACC. Still believe the majority of the reason was playing time. All three of them were top 50 recruits that were not getting time. These days, that just does not fly. Can't keep high 4 stars on the bench for too long without seeing a few transfers.

[Henderson]

Since you don't care for a "lesser B1G team," allow me to point you to the team that just won the ACC. Virginia has had eight (8!) transfers in the last four years and already have another transfer (Teven Jones) this year.

But three players transferring in the same year, three players transferring on the same day. It's just not the same. 8 transfers in 4 years is a lot of transfers, and nothing to emulate. It doesn't say good things, even if the team succeeds going forward. But three transfers in a single day of a single season = blow up. Something amiss. Using Virginia as your example, 8 transfers annualized over 4 years vs. Maryland's 3 in one day, MD would have the equivalent of 12 transfers in 4 years, which is 50% more than Virginia. Or using Virginia again, 9 transfers in 5 years would be 1.8 per season. MD now has 3.0 per this season. On one day. All at once. For Virginia to have the equivalent, it would have to have 15 transfers over 5 years instead of 9. See the differences?

And let's be clear: Even Virginia's transfer record is extreme. MD's this year is much much more so. 25% of the team all at once.

[Here is a Turtle]

But three players transferring in the same year, three players transferring on the same day. It's just not the same. 8 transfers in 4 years is a lot of transfers, and nothing to emulate. It doesn't say good things, even if the team succeeds going forward. But three transfers in a single day of a single season = blow up. Something amiss. Using Virginia as your example, 8 transfers annualized over 4 years vs. Maryland's 3 in one day, MD would have the equivalent of 12 transfers in 4 years, which is 50% more than Virginia. Or using Virginia again, 9 transfers in 5 years would be 1.8 per season. MD now has 3.0 per this season. On one day. All at once. For Virginia to have the equivalent, it would have to have 15 transfers over 5 years instead of 9. See the differences?

You're really over-blowing the situation. The University decided to announced all three transfers at the same time and be done with it. No more transfers unless a walk on is gone or something. This is it. Wells reaffirmed he was staying last night to finish his degree. That was the last question mark. Does it really make much of a difference if they announced they are transferring on different days? Not really. It's the same number at the end of the day. Virginia has a lot of transfers. Maryland has a lot of transfers.

The second article I posted shows how commonplace transfers are. It is not as big a deal as it was several years ago. If you want to play numbers, Maryland had no transfers last year. Players that left either graduated or left for the pros. So that would be 1.5 transfers in the last two years which is better than UVA's over the last five (1.8).

Again, the University decided to announce them all at once. reports are that Faust planned to transfer around Christmas time. Cleare and Peters were the recent ones. You can't expect to keep a bunch of 4 and 5 stars on the bench forever.

[Henderson]

You're really over-blowing the situation. The University decided to announced all three transfers at the same time and be done with it. No more transfers unless a walk on is gone or something. This is it. Wells reaffirmed he was staying last night to finish his degree. That was the last question mark. Does it really make much of a difference if they announced they are transferring on different days? Not really. It's the same number at the end of the day. Virginia has a lot of transfers. Maryland has a lot of transfers.

The second article I posted shows how commonplace transfers are. It is not as big a deal as it was several years ago. If you want to play numbers, Maryland had no transfers last year. Players that left either graduated or left for the pros. So that would be 1.5 transfers in the last two years which is better than UVA's over the last five (1.8).

Again, the University decided to announce them all at once. reports are that Faust planned to transfer around Christmas time. Cleare and Peters were the recent ones. You can't expect to keep a bunch of 4 and 5 stars on the bench forever.

If I were a business person with only 12 or 13 employees, 8 or 9 of them regulars, and three of those regulars resigned all in one day, I wouldn't be whistling past the graveyard and saying everything is fine. I'd recognize a problem. If I were a cheerleader for the business -- say a PR person hired to put a good spin on things -- I'd say exactly the things you do.

[Here is a Turtle]

If I were a business person with only 12 or 13 employees, 8 or 9 of them regulars, and three of those regulars resigned all in one day, I wouldn't be whistling past the graveyard and saying everything is fine. I'd recognize a problem. If I were a cheerleader for the business -- say a PR person hired to put a good spin on things -- I'd say exactly the things you do.

But this isn't a business. Running a business and running a college basketball team are two entirely different scenarios. It is not about being a cheerleader. If it was any team, I would be saying the same thing. Transfers are a fact of life in college basketball. Again, the article I linked to earlier says everything. A lot - it could even be argued too many - college basketball players transfer in the first couple years of playing. Maryland has a top ten class that softens the blow of the players that left for playing time.

If you want to talk about the basketball team as a business though, it surprisingly makes more money for the school than the football team., and is ranked 16th on Forbes Most Valuable College Basketball Teams (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ffgl45ijk/16-maryland-terrapins/)at 15.1 million and a profit of 9.7 million (Duke was 11th (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ffgl45ijk/11-duke-blue-devils/)).

It is not so much about putting a good spin on things as it is arguing that this is an issue of lack of playing time for top 50 prospects. Honestly, it's not the worst problem (http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/two_more_rutgers_students_file_suit_over_mike_rice _abuse_scandal.html) to have (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/aac/2014/02/25/louisville-signee-sharieff-rhaheed-muhammad-faces-felony-charges-ncaa-football/5822421/).

[ChillinDuke]

If I were a business person with only 12 or 13 employees, 8 or 9 of them regulars, and three of those regulars resigned all in one day, I wouldn't be whistling past the graveyard and saying everything is fine. I'd recognize a problem. If I were a cheerleader for the business -- say a PR person hired to put a good spin on things -- I'd say exactly the things you do.

Gotta agree with HIAT.

It's certainly not great news, but it's not the end of the world for MD basketball.

- Chillin

[TruBlu]

Any chance that this move is partly because these kids wanted to play in the ACC and, as of next year, that is no longer attainable at Maryland?

Not sure if conferences hold that kind of allure these days, but I've heard it mentioned in interviews with recruits numerous times. Whether it's the truth or just political correctness, I have no idea.

- Chillin

Those kids probably were reluctant to leave Maryland and the Big(?). They were probably anxious to go to Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, etc. in the middle of winter. Sure beats going to Florida,
Georgia, SC, and NC.:rolleyes:

[Henderson]

It's certainly not great news, but it's not the end of the world for MD basketball.

- Chillin

Did someone mention an end of the world scenario? I missed that.

[BD80]

And the beat goes on:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24524070/maryland-assistant-spinelli-joins-jim-christians-boston-college-staff

Now the assistants are starting to swim away from the ship.