Final Four Thread

[Troublemaker]

Florida in big trouble, under a minute left.

[gumbomoop]

Wonder how often it happens that a team that gets out to a big early lead tends to get the false confidence that it'll be an easy win.

[NYBri]

I can't believe the homer coverage for Florida on TBS!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

What were the odds for UCon winning it all? Pretty stunning.

[Atlanta Duke]

Well rooting for UConn was an unnatural experience. I did not want Donovan to get his third national championship.

One down, one to go - hopefully Wisconsin gets it done

[hurleyfor3]

It wasn't on cbs in denver. Huh? Had to watch it on tbs. Still got Nantz and Bonner Kerr.

The Denver cbs affiliate is showing some Cindy Crawford skin infomercial right now.

[Bluedog]

Well rooting for UConn was an unnatural experience. I did not want Donovan to get his third national championship.

One down, one to go - hopefully Wisconsin gets it done

But you want UConn in position to tie Duke with four championships? It was a hard decision for me, but I mildly preferred Florida. Also, UConn fans are a bit Maryland-like in my experience (I.e. Not a good thing). Please Bucky, get the victory tonight!

[uh_no]

Wonder how often it happens that a team that gets out to a big early lead tends to get the false confidence that it'll be an easy win.

i think "big early lead" is a bit disingenouous (sp)"

they were up 16-4...but 11 minutes in the game.......

4 popints is pitiful, but 16 points ain't great either....both teams were playing great defense, and it waasn't a stretch to think that uconn could win the last 30 minutes, especially after they beat MSU down the stretch.

uconn held wilbekin to 4 points. incredible defensive performance by the huskies, especially with both their bigs (brimah and nolan) in foul trouble. they held florida to their lowest point total of the season.

defense wins championships, folks. uconn did it 3 years ago on defense, and their trying to do it again.

I won't hide it. I'm pumped....just incredible performance by the huskies...and we're 5/6 of the way there. hopefully jabari and the incoming frosh see this and think "this could be us next year"


all the credit to kevin ollie...even if he loses on monday. hell of a coach, and a hell of a person...held it together when they were banned, and just knocked off the #1 overall seed

i'm happy tonight. have a good weekend.c

[uh_no]

I can't believe the homer coverage for Florida on TBS!

they were showing it on TNT/TBS/Tru....one for uconn, one for UF, and one "neutral"....interesting concept.....

[Newton_14]

Wonder how often it happens that a team that gets out to a big early lead tends to get the false confidence that it'll be an easy win.

I missed the first half. How far down was UConn in the first half? UConn looked darn strong to me in the 2nd half. Man Daniels would have looked good in Duke Blue.

[Bluedog]

It wasn't on cbs in denver. Huh? Had to watch it on tbs. Still got Nantz and Bonner.

The Denver cbs affiliate is showing some Cindy Crawford skin infomercial right now.

CBS and Turner have agreed to rotate the rights to the Final Four and Championship games across years. This year, CBS only gets the championship. Same next year. In 2016, it's reversed.

[MarkD83]

I can't believe the homer coverage for Florida on TBS!

I noticed that too and then noticed the upper right hand corner where TBS was running the Florida Teamcast and they were Fla announcers.

TNT had the national feed (Jim Nantz etc). I could never find the UConn feed.

[Newton_14]

I noticed that too and then noticed the upper right hand corner where TBS was running the Florida Teamcast and they were Fla announcers.

TNT had the national feed (Jim Nantz etc). I could never find the UConn feed.

Yeah that threw me off too. Did not realize CBS was not doing it. I started out on TBS and then finally found Nance on TNT. It's on like 6 channels.

[uh_no]

uhhhh cbs owns tbs/tnt/tru.....yeah can't believe it wasn't actually on CBS....but whatever.....nothing gonna make me unhappy tonight!

[Bluedog]

I noticed that too and then noticed the upper right hand corner where TBS was running the Florida Teamcast and they were Fla announcers.

TNT had the national feed (Jim Nantz etc). I could never find the UConn feed.
TruTV.

uhhhh cbs owns tbs/tnt/tru.....yeah can't believe it wasn't actually on CBS....but whatever.....nothing gonna make me unhappy tonight!

CBS does not own those channels...Turner broadcasting does. Congrats on your Huskies. They deserved it and I do like Kevin Ollie.

[gumbomoop]

It wasn't on cbs in denver. Huh? Had to watch it on tbs. Still got Nantz and Bonner.

See link from story this morn on main page's Saturday links.

http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2014/04/what_channel_is_the_final_four_on_there_are_three_ answers_to_that_question.html

[Newton_14]

uhhhh cbs owns tbs/tnt/tru.....yeah can't believe it wasn't actually on CBS....but whatever.....nothing gonna make me unhappy tonight!

Ha I was thinking about you the entire 2nd half dude. I knew one DBR person was stoked during this game. congrats on the win. I like Kevin Ollie a lot.

[Atlanta Duke]

But you want UConn in position to tie Duke with four championships? It was a hard decision for me, but I mildly preferred Florida. Also, UConn fans are a bit Maryland-like in my experience (I.e. Not a good thing). Please Bucky, get the victory tonight!

I do not need to deal with UConn fans in Atlanta, which is swarming with Gators.

And I do not want anyone catching K. Since Calhoun does not get the 4th NC, UConn winning does not pain me as much as Donovan or Cal/UK winning.

Best outcome remaining is Wisconsin winning it all.

What is with the singer wearing a 1991 UNLV jacket? Now that was a team to root against. :)

[Troublemaker]

I won't hide it. I'm pumped....just incredible performance by the huskies...and we're 5/6 of the way there.


Tried to flame you, but apparently I have to spread some around.

[gumbomoop]

i think "big early lead" is a bit disingenouous (sp)"

they were up 16-4...but 11 minutes in the game.......

I'll stick with "early." Admittedly, 16-4 isn't as big as, say, 28-1 after 5 minutes.

And if I had any feelings, my feelings would be hurt by the word "disingenuous." But I don't, so I'm not much offended.

Your Huskies played a marvelous game, smart, cool, no panic, efficient. Maybe guard play really is pretty important at tourney time.

[1 24 90]

I do not need to deal with UConn fans in Atlanta, which is swarming with Gators.

And I do not want anyone catching K. Since Calhoun does not get the 4th NC, UConn winning does not pain me as much as Donovan or Cal/UK winning.

Best outcome remaining is Wisconsin winning it all.

What is with the singer wearing a 1991 UNLV jacket? Now that was a team to root against. :)

Brandon Flowers and The Killers are from Vegas so he's probably a fan from when he was a kid.

The 4 teams that have entered the final four on a 30+ game win streak have all failed to win the title. (Indiana St., UNLV, Duke and Florida)

[hurleyfor3]

This confuses me. I'm old and set in my ways, and can't even remember what channel tbs is. (You mean it's not 17 anymore?) The championship game won't be on cbs next year? Aren't all the most-watched basketball games in history college championship games?

[uh_no]

Ha I was thinking about you the entire 2nd half dude. I knew one DBR person was stoked during this game. congrats on the win. I like Kevin Ollie a lot.

thanks, man. i know people generally dislike uconn here...so i try to keep it under wraps during the year. but as a basketball fan, You almost have to be heartless to not appreciate what kevin ollie has done the past 2 years. it's got to be humbling for the program to feel like it's starting from nothing....new coach, no post season, bad academics, players leaving....and for KO to hold it together. I hope that KO can look to K for inspiration for what he believes he and Uconn can be for the next 35 years. He's already proven himself a phenomenal individual, and hopefully he can continue to prove himeself a really good coach.

I thank you guys here for putting up with me today and over the next 2 days. I hope everyone realizes that in the end, NCAAM is but a silly game, and the real winning and losing happens off the court. Coach K has proven that he does it the "right" way, and though calhoun was a very good basketball coach, that ollie is showing that he is from the mold of K, that he expects winning in both domains.

go huskies. and I'm proud of shabazz nappier for graduating, and for boatright and daniels for staying the course academically. credit for uconn president susan herbst (a dukie) for helping instill that requirement of academic success.

connecticut doesn't have much going for it, but uconn basketball is one thing that brings all nutmeggers back home. hope you can all enjoy beautiful basketball this weekend despite the outcomes.

[Atlanta Duke]

This confuses me. I'm old and set in my ways, and can't even remember what channel tbs is. (You mean it's not 17 anymore?) The championship game won't be on cbs next year? Aren't all the most-watched basketball games in history college championship games?

Channel 17 The Superstation - those were the days

It is all about the Benjamins. Turner ponied up $$$ to join the CBS bid to keep the tournament away from ESPN and gets Final Four games. We should be grateful for that - the alternative would be watching the games on ESPN with Vitale doing the national semis and championship game.

[Billy Dat]

thanks, man. i know people generally dislike uconn here...so i try to keep it under wraps during the year. but as a basketball fan, You almost have to be heartless to not appreciate what kevin ollie has done the past 2 years. it's got to be humbling for the program to feel like it's starting from nothing....new coach, no post season, bad academics, players leaving....and for KO to hold it together. I hope that KO can look to K for inspiration for what he believes he and Uconn can be for the next 35 years. He's already proven himself a phenomenal individual, and hopefully he can continue to prove himeself a really good coach.

I thank you guys here for putting up with me today and over the next 2 days. I hope everyone realizes that in the end, NCAAM is but a silly game, and the real winning and losing happens off the court. Coach K has proven that he does it the "right" way, and though calhoun was a very good basketball coach, that ollie is showing that he is from the mold of K, that he expects winning in both domains.

go huskies. and I'm proud of shabazz nappier for graduating, and for boatright and daniels for staying the course academically. credit for uconn president susan herbst (a dukie) for helping instill that requirement of academic success.

connecticut doesn't have much going for it, but uconn basketball is one thing that brings all nutmeggers back home. hope you can all enjoy beautiful basketball this weekend despite the outcomes.

This is a very likable Husky team on an incredible run. I used to hate UConn but most of that was the rivalry and the epic games they won against us in the Final Four and Championship. When Calhoun left, a lot of the bite left. Ollie is much easier to like and Napier is such a gamer.

Big upset, though. Wilbekin was terrible, and he was their best player all year. Young went down like a champ. The UConn D was just insane. Daniels was money, I kept thinking how we got pretty close with his recruitment. I was also thinking alot about Alex Murphy.

Let's go Wisconsin and Frank the Tank.

[NYBri]

they were showing it on TNT/TBS/Tru....one for uconn, one for UF, and one "neutral"....interesting concept.....


Weird. I just want to watch the game.

[gumbomoop]

Weird. I just want to watch the game.

TBS will have the Nantz-Anthony-Kerr call of the Wisconsin-UK game. Final will be on CBS Mon eve.

[hurleyfor3]

The floor has the logo from the 1986 Final Four, in the bottom left from the perspective of the teevee. They did this in 2010 as well.

[uh_no]

This is a very likable Husky team on an incredible run. I used to hate UConn but most of that was the rivalry and the epic games they won against us in the Final Four and Championship. When Calhoun left, a lot of the bite left. Ollie is much easier to like and Napier is such a gamer.

Big upset, though. Wilbekin was terrible, and he was their best player all year. Young went down like a champ. The UConn D was just insane. Daniels was money, I kept thinking how we got pretty close with his recruitment. I was also thinking alot about Alex Murphy.

Let's go Wisconsin and Frank the Tank.

i'm glad i can talk about uconn on merits and not try to defend everything else. in 2011, it would be that i had to try to defend everything else....not with a clean coach, it's reverted to basketball, which i like. i think many of the 99/04 crowd are being drowned out by younger fans, not to belittle the elder folk, but most of the kids at duke in the past 5 years were in single-digit ages in 2004....perhaps we can renew the rivalry in years to come....maybe next year? the big duke class vs the uconn team with boatright daniels, brimah and purvis? i'm rooting for it :)

[DBFAN]

While it would stink if UCON won, I take solace in knowing it won't be Calhouns 4th. Plus anything would be better than that snake in the grass" in Lexington winning

[uh_no]

While it would stink if UCON won, I take solace in knowing it won't be Calhouns 4th. Plus anything would be better than that snake in the grass" in Lexington winning

I agree! plus, 4 titles in 15 years would be one of the most impressive stretches. as it is already, 5 FFs has got to be up there in postseason performance.

obviously duke's stretch in the 80s/90s is ridiculous, but this is really good too. I can only hope it lasts another 48 hours.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Greg Anthony seemed to want to just keep talking without thinking on that play. Kerr was right on each point. Missing the continuation possibility point in particular was clear for Anthony.

[Troublemaker]

Fr Koenig doing a great job holding the fort while Jackson sits with two fouls. Showing why Duke, UNC, and Kansas offered him a scholarship.

[moonpie23]

i am disliking cal's face……..AND his team…


go badgers…

[FerryFor50]

Greg Anthony seemed to want to just keep talking without thinking on that play. Kerr was right on each point. Missing the continuation possibility point in particular was clear for Anthony.

Not to mention Anthony accusing Kaminsky of a flop, yet ignoring the fact that Johnson threw his arms up as if he did nothing wrong.

He obviously shoved Kaminsky in the face.

[FerryFor50]

i am disliking cal's face……..AND his team…


go badgers…

He's the Renee Zellweger of college basketball. Pouty cry face.

[moonpie23]

UK slapping the floor…

[FerryFor50]

Terrible possession at the end of the half by the Badgers. Have your freshman backup PG dribble out the entire 30 seconds and then pull up just inside the 3 point line? Don't even try to drive and dish? Or work it into Kaminsky?

[tbyers11]

UK slapping the floor…

As if I didn't hate them enough already

[moonpie23]

so much ridiculous talent on UK……….hope Bo's got a plan….

badgers did a good job of executing in the first half………let's see if they can keep it up

[_Gary]

Not to mention Anthony accusing Kaminsky of a flop, yet ignoring the fact that Johnson threw his arms up as if he did nothing wrong.

He obviously shoved Kaminsky in the face.

Anthony is clearly having flashbacks to '92. He sees this current UK team as being like his UNLV team and Wisconsin like the Duke team that beat him. It's clear as day to me who he's rooting for. Just one more reason for me to pull for the Badgers.

BTW, I'll be darned but take my medicine. I'd have sworn this Tournament had the stars aligned for a Gator victory, which is why I found myself rooting for UConn. That was a weird feeling. And while I admit this current version of the Huskies doesn't grate on me, the only hope for a happy ending is a Badgers win. If UK wins tonight I honestly don't think I'll watch the Championship game on Monday. I hate the thought of UConn winning 4 titles in 15 years (they'll be no living with them if that happens) but I also can't stand the thought of Calipari's one-and-done philosophy carrying the day either.

[FerryFor50]

so much ridiculous talent on UK……….hope Bo's got a plan….

badgers did a good job of executing in the first half………let's see if they can keep it up

Who needs a plan when you shoot 40%, you let the other team shoot 54% and you STILL lead by 4.

[CALVET]

Anthony is clearly having flashbacks to '92. He sees this current UK team as being like his UNLV team and Wisconsin like the Duke team that beat him. It's clear as day to me who he's rooting for. Just one more reason for me to pull for the Badgers.

BTW, I'll be darned but take my medicine. I'd have sworn this Tournament had the stars aligned for a Gator victory, which is why I found myself rooting for UConn. That was a weird feeling. And while I admit this current version of the Huskies doesn't grate on me, the only hope for a happy ending is a Badgers win. If UK wins tonight I honestly don't think I'll watch the Championship game on Monday. I hate the thought of UConn winning 4 titles in 15 years (they'll be no living with them if that happens) but I also can't stand the thought of Calipari's one-and-done philosophy carrying the day either.

My sentiments exactly.

[FerryFor50]

Calipari is the anti-Roy Williams. 30 seconds into the 2nd half, he calls a timeout.

[wavedukefan70s]

Anthony is clearly having flashbacks to '92. He sees this current UK team as being like his UNLV team and Wisconsin like the Duke team that beat him. It's clear as day to me who he's rooting for. Just one more reason for me to pull for the Badgers.

BTW, I'll be darned but take my medicine. I'd have sworn this Tournament had the stars aligned for a Gator victory, which is why I found myself rooting for UConn. That was a weird feeling. And while I admit this current version of the Huskies doesn't grate on me, the only hope for a happy ending is a Badgers win. If UK wins tonight I honestly don't think I'll watch the Championship game on Monday. I hate the thought of UConn winning 4 titles in 15 years (they'll be no living with them if that happens) but I also can't stand the thought of Calipari's one-and-done philosophy carrying the day either.

Only option: GO WISCONSIN !:)

[Newton_14]

Anthony is clearly having flashbacks to '92. He sees this current UK team as being like his UNLV team and Wisconsin like the Duke team that beat him. It's clear as day to me who he's rooting for. Just one more reason for me to pull for the Badgers.

BTW, I'll be darned but take my medicine. I'd have sworn this Tournament had the stars aligned for a Gator victory, which is why I found myself rooting for UConn. That was a weird feeling. And while I admit this current version of the Huskies doesn't grate on me, the only hope for a happy ending is a Badgers win. If UK wins tonight I honestly don't think I'll watch the Championship game on Monday. I hate the thought of UConn winning 4 titles in 15 years (they'll be no living with them if that happens) but I also can't stand the thought of Calipari's one-and-done philosophy carrying the day either.

I totally totally disagree with the bold. You are way off with those comments. Anthony is nothing like that. Regarding Duke, I have heard Anthony praise that Duke team many times over the years, and he has shown great respect for that team, Coach K , and the Duke program. He has also been very positive about the Wisconsin team tonight and stated they were a much quicker team than UK. While I disagreed with his comments on the play, he is a guy that hates flopping by anyone, and in his view he saw a flop there. I did not, nor did Kerr but I did not see his comments at pro-UK and anti-Wisc, I saw them as anti-flopping. He did admit that Johnson extended his arm.

Anthony is one of the best announcers around which is why he bumped Kellog off of the A-Team and earned the seat by Nance. I find his commentary to be fair, really good, and non-biased in every game he works.

I dont think he is pulling for either team. He's just calling what he sees.

[wavedukefan70s]

My apologies .i jinxed Wisconsin .

[_Gary]

I totally totally disagree with the bold. You are way off with those comments. Anthony is nothing like that. Regarding Duke, I have heard Anthony praise that Duke team many times over the years, and he has shown great respect for that team, Coach K , and the Duke program. He has also been very positive about the Wisconsin team tonight and stated they were a much quicker team than UK. While I disagreed with his comments on the play, he is a guy that hates flopping by anyone, and in his view he saw a flop there. I did not, nor did Kerr but I did not see his comments at pro-UK and anti-Wisc, I saw them as anti-flopping. He did admit that Johnson extended his arm.

Anthony is one of the best announcers around which is why he bumped Kellog off of the A-Team and earned the seat by Nance. I find his commentary to be fair, really good, and non-biased in every game he works.

I dont think he is pulling for either team. He's just calling what he sees.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. He was so animated and adamant about that call, and another one or two, that in the 1st half it came off to me as him having a rooting interest. Perhaps it has nothing to do with '92, that I will admit was just my two cents. But I'm not buying into him not favoring UK in this game. No way. No how. And unfortunately it looks like he's going to get his wish unless the Badgers turn on the jets in a hurry.

[kaufmjo]

1) I'm watching game on TNT and realized I'm watching a Kentucky broadcast! The commentator was the most biased I've ever heard!

2) watching Kentucky make that run I realized we never see duke get that kind of momentum anymore. In fact in the last 5 years I can't recall a duke team in the tourney having momentum like that. How come our teams can't dominate with athletic plays like KU just did??

[ice-9]

While it would stink if UCON won, I take solace in knowing it won't be Calhouns 4th. Plus anything would be better than that snake in the grass" in Lexington winning

I can see Calhoun kicking himself and seething with jealousy inside for not being the guy this year, for maybe giving up too soon.

Somehow that gives me pleasure.

Go UConn! Go Badgers!

[hurleyfor3]

Bucky is everything we wish we were.

[uh_no]

I can see Calhoun kicking himself and seething with jealousy inside for not being the guy this year, for maybe giving up too soon.

Somehow that gives me pleasure.

Go UConn! Go Badgers!

i don't think calhoun, good as he was as a coach, would have been able to do what ollie has done the past couple years....plus he had some major health issues that I think the lack of stress/daily practice has helped a great deal. he looks a lot better now than he did when he was coaching. he's clearly happy for ollie, and I hope he can stay happy. He always said he would leave after a mediocre season, and he did just that, and couldn't have left the program in better hands.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I would like to see this game decided by a late technical foul on Calipari for being on the court.

Drives me crazy.

[uh_no]

I would like to see this game decided by a late technical foul on Calipari for being on the court.

Drives me crazy.

i prefer to see calipari lose due to missed free throws....but that would work too :P

[ICP]

I really love the idea of team-specific teamcasts with homer announcers, I wonder whom they would have for Duke next year...

[CR9]

I'm probably late in saying but the commentators are woeful. Horribly biased towards Wiscy. Ruins the spectacle. Pageantry gone.

[FerryFor50]

I'm probably late in saying but the commentators are woeful. Horribly biased towards Wiscy. Ruins the spectacle. Pageantry gone.

Turn it to TruTV for the Badger homecast.

TBS is the regular broadcast. TNT is the Kentucky lovefest.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Turn it to TruTV for the Badger homecast.

TBS is the regular broadcast. TNT is the Kentucky lovefest.

It is an interesting gimmick.

[CR9]

Turn it to TruTV for the Badger homecast.

TBS is the regular broadcast. TNT is the Kentucky lovefest.

Aw hell. I didn't know there were 3 different broadcasts. I guess that would explain the guy from BTN announcing the game.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Arrgghh

[kaufmjo]

Aw hell. I didn't know there were 3 different broadcasts. I guess that would explain the guy from BTN announcing the game.
Yep I made same mistake listening to the goofball Kentucky announcer....

Where does calipari get these athletes from? How can we?

[FerryFor50]

Harrison twins regressing back to the mean... let's go Badgers!

[CR9]

Cal will complain about that but with good reason. Ref was staring at it and swallowed his whistle.

[FerryFor50]

Jackson probably got away with a travel. But I don't care. Hit the FTs!

[FerryFor50]

Harrison twins regressing back to the mean... let's go Badgers!

And I jinxed it. Harrison hits another dagger 3.

[Utley]

I knew they would hit a 3 on e the Wisconsin kid missed the free throw

[CR9]

Are you kidding me? AGAIN this kid comes up trump.

[pfrduke]

I can't believe this kid keeps hitting these shots.

[FerryFor50]

I'll never understand why teams elect to set up the halfcourt defense in end game full court situations and let the other team roll the ball down the floor rather than make them put it on the floor.

Also, you don't allow the 3. You allow the drive or foul.

[Here is a Turtle]

Unbelievably clutch. What is this? The third game in a row?

[Utley]

Am going to invoke all the negative karma I can - Kentucky is going to win this one

[Here is a Turtle]

Wisconsin misses one free throw all game, and it was the one that mattered most. Crushing.

A 7 seed and an 8 seed for the championship.

[Trey21]

Hopefully Naiper's heroics beat Harrison's on Monday.

[Here is a Turtle]

I wish it was possible for both teams to lose on Monday?

[Troublemaker]

Wisconsin misses one free throw all game, and it was the one that mattered most. Crushing.

You could see on his face that he was nervous, too. We were kinda lucky he only missed one.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Painful

[Newton_14]

I can't believe this kid keeps hitting these shots.

I need to go throw up now. That was just sickening to watch. Go UConn.

[uh_no]

Hopefully Naiper's heroics beat Harrison's on Monday.

one can only hope.....kemba beat UK in 2011....

[Utley]

Destiny has spoken. I love u conn's fight but I think Kentucky just too big and athletic

[Gthoma2a]

A young team is on the verge of winning a championship, again. Hopefully we get a chance for this kind of success next year.

[gumbomoop]

Jackson is a solid player. Tough for him. At least one of those blocks called on him in first half was a charge. Then late he makes an unforced TO, misses a FT, and has the last shot rim out.

Expect him to have an excellent senior season. Wisconsin returns everyone but Brust, so preseason top 3?

[Here is a Turtle]

Jackson is a solid player. Tough for him. At least one of those blocks called on him in first half was a charge. Then late he makes an unforced TO, misses a FT, and has the last shot rim out.

Expect him to have an excellent senior season. Wisconsin returns everyone but Brust, so preseason top 3?

Wild final four so far.

Wisconsin will definitely be highly ranked preseason. Definitely a favorite to win the Big Ten next year.

[hurleyfor3]

Wisconsin misses one free throw all game, and it was the one that mattered most. Crushing.

Technically, every free throw mattered equally.

[ICP]

Bucky is everything we wish we were.

They look to me a lot like we were in the 1990s in some ways, today we are more like Kentucky if you look at our recruiting and the make up of our roster in terms of the high-level young talent we have at key spots. For better or worse...

[DBFAN]

Don't you love how they made Calapari out to be soooo loving. Like his players were his own children... Barf

[DBFAN]

They look to me a lot like we were in the 1990s in some ways, today we are more like Kentucky on if you look at our recruiting and the make up of our roster in terms if the high-level young talent we have.

I disagree

We had teams with committed players, and a coach who didn't have 2 final 4's vacated. If you mean that we resemble them because we had 5 guys out on the court, and put a ball in a basket.. Then yeah ok, I can go with that. We have to recruit like that because that is the system that Calapari ushered in, if we don't we get left behind

[Rich]

And I jinxed it. Harrison hits another dagger 3.

Got to wonder how his brother feels. Andrew is the star 3 straight games and bails Aaron our for that silly foul. Then Cal makes that exact point post game to a national audience.

Speaking of Cal, he's about to say in the post game interview, "I knew the last team with the ball would win the game" when he realizes that's exactly what didn't happen.

Can't stand him or his pouty players.

[Troublemaker]

Kentucky opens as 2.5-pt favorites for Monday night.

[rsvman]

How is that everybody watching the game knew that KY would go to Harrison on the left wing for the win but it seems that nobody on the court or at court side could figure it out?
I'm speechless.

Hard to imagine a worse title game.

[hurleyfor3]

Hard to imagine a worse title game.

unc vs. anyone comes to mind

[CR9]

How is that everybody watching the game knew that KY would go to Harrison on the left wing for the win but it seems that nobody on the court or at court side could figure it out?
I'm speechless.

Hard to imagine a worse title game.

Michigan-Michigan St would have been worse by a long way, IMO.

[Atlanta Duke]

Hard to imagine a worse title game.

I know it is UConn but I like their coach

Living here in SEC country a Florida -UK matchup would have been worse for me

Still not certain I will watch - Cal winning again will be tough to take - imagine how Florida fans and Donovan feel about that after their season

[ICP]

I disagree

We had teams with committed players, and a coach who didn't have 2 final 4's vacated. If you mean that we resemble them because we had 5 guys out on the court, and put a ball in a basket.. Then yeah ok, I can go with that. We have to recruit like that because that is the system that Calapari ushered in, if we don't we get left behind

I am only taking about this year's Duke team centered around two top NBA prospects and a few other highly talented young athletic players. While hard to accept, this year's team looks much more like KY than Wisconsin( a team of older, less athletic/highly recruited/talented players). Too bad we couldn't put it together by the end of the year like KY did though...

[GGLC]

Michigan-Michigan St would have been worse by a long way, IMO.

Could not disagree more. Kentucky under Cal is evil incarnate.

[Bluedog]

How is that everybody watching the game knew that KY would go to Harrison on the left wing for the win but it seems that nobody on the court or at court side could figure it out?
I'm speechless.

Hard to imagine a worse title game.

Well, it was a 30+ footer almost out of bounds from a guy who had been driving all game at will and hadn't made a three.... It was just a heck of a shot. Can't believe he did it again. Ugh.

Kentucky is one missed shot from a round of 32 exit. They earned their victories and deserve to be there, but there IS some random luck involved and they are, oh so close, at being at the other end of it. I think we as fans disregard this. Kentucky would be the same team if Wichita St happened to make that last three.

[uh_no]

Well, it was a 30+ footer almost out of bounds from a guy who had been driving all game at will and hadn't made a three.... It was just a heck of a shot. Can't believe he did it again. Ugh.

karma has to run out sometime, right?....RIGHT??!?!!?!

[Bluedog]

karma has to run out sometime, right?....RIGHT??!?!!?!

I hope so!

[duke09hms]

I am only taking about this year's Duke team centered around two top NBA prospects and a few other highly talented young athletic players. While hard to accept, this year's team looks much more like KY than Wisconsin( a team of older, less athletic/highly recruited/talented players). Too bad we couldn't put it together by the end of the year like KY did though...

Yeah, in terms of this year, Calipari really did a much better job than K of figuring out how to mesh essentially a brand new team together. He did have better tools at the most influential spot on the floor, PG, a point guard who can dribble-penetrate reliably but still have lateral quickness to not get blown by.

Hopefully Tyus will answer that question. Or Quinn will make a huge jump this summer. Both need a lot of work on defense.

[uh_no]

I hope so!

wish it would have run out tonight....i could bear losing to wisconsin...but kentucky? ugh. gotta hope that the uconn guards can abuse a relatively mediocre kentucky defense.....and foul shooting wins the day

[CR9]

Could not disagree more. Kentucky under Cal is evil incarnate.

The incessant build-up about round 4 and the Big 10 reigning supreme and back to back for Michigan and Izzo being magic and all that other hyperbolas bull would kill me.

[rsvman]

unc vs. anyone comes to mind

I guess I meant of conceivable outcomes as of the Elite 8.

But when I read your post, I immediately thought "yeah, that's right, because that would mean UNC had a chance at another title." But what if the game were against Duke?

Would you still say "UNC vs anyone" is a worse outcome than KY vs UConn?

[DBFAN]

Yeah, in terms of this year, Calipari really did a much better job than K of figuring out how to mesh essentially a brand new team together. He did have better tools at the most influential spot on the floor, PG, a point guard who can dribble-penetrate reliably but still have lateral quickness to not get blown by.

Hopefully Tyus will answer that question. Or Quinn will make a huge jump this summer. Both need a lot of work on defense.

It seems more like Calapari just told his kids to take it easy during the season, just play well enough to make tourney. Then you guys have to work hard. That way he looks like a genius while everybody was talking smack. I mean do you really think at any given time he thought that team would go undefeated, of course not. But he did know that after last year he can't push freshman an entire year. So it's a win win for him. Get everyone to underestimate him, and anything past sweet 16 is just icing on the cake. Basically he has not only created a 1 and Done factory, but he is also conditioning his teams to play like NBA teams. Because nobody really watches until playoffs.. I mean tourney

[dukelifer]

It seems more like Calapari just told his kids to take it easy during the season, just play well enough to make tourney. Then you guys have to work hard. That way he looks like a genius while everybody was talking smack. I mean do you really think at any given time he thought that team would go undefeated, of course not. But he did know that after last year he can't push freshman an entire year. So it's a win win for him. Get everyone to underestimate him, and anything past sweet 16 is just icing on the cake. Basically he has not only created a 1 and Done factory, but he is also conditioning his teams to play like NBA teams. Because nobody really watches until playoffs.. I mean tourney

No way that happened. Not a chance. The difference between winning an losing can come down to one shot- one play. If your hypothesis was right- KY should be rolling teams not hitting shots in the closing moments - unless that is Cal's master plan as well- go for the dramatic- it will make you more memorable.

[DukieInBrasil]

Can both UCons and Kentucky lose? I mean, can we get that to happen please?

[Saratoga2]

No way that happened. Not a chance. The difference between winning an losing can come down to one shot- one play. If your hypothesis was right- KY should be rolling teams not hitting shots in the closing moments - unless that is Cal's master plan as well- go for the dramatic- it will make you more memorable.

Louisville should have beaten Kentucky except for Russdiculous missing a ton of free throws. Wisconsin could have beat them. They are just getting by, a good but not great team. UCONN was nearly beaten by St Josephs and Dayton and yet they look like the stronger of the teams in the finals and I have zero love for UCONN but a lot of respect for what they have accomplished. If anything, this tourney has shown that there are only small differences between many of the teams competing, including those thought to be mid-majors.

[moonpie23]

this will be the first final in a long time that i just don't care to watch……either team wins and i'm bummed.. :(

[ice-9]

Louisville should have beaten Kentucky except for Russdiculous missing a ton of free throws. Wisconsin could have beat them. They are just getting by, a good but not great team. UCONN was nearly beaten by St Josephs and Dayton and yet they look like the stronger of the teams in the finals and I have zero love for UCONN but a lot of respect for what they have accomplished. If anything, this tourney has shown that there are only small differences between many of the teams competing, including those thought to be mid-majors.

I hate Kentucky as much as the next guy, but this Kentucky team has earned it.

They beat a dangerous Kansas St team, an undefeated Wichita St and then a Louisville team many expected to get to the Final Four. And then Michigan, the Big 10 winner, and now an experienced and disciplined Wisconsin team. Margin be damned, they won and advanced.

If Kentucky beats UConn tomorrow, they would be deserving champion. It would have been better if it was Florida, but man, this Kentucky team has proven it on the court.

You have to give it to them. Despite being young and still making young mistakes, this team has pulled it together.

[1 24 90]

More discouraging news about tomorrow's game - the winner ties Duke for most titles (4) in the modern tourney era (1985-present). Gag

[uh_no]

Louisville should have beaten Kentucky except for Russdiculous missing a ton of free throws. Wisconsin could have beat them. They are just getting by, a good but not great team. UCONN was nearly beaten by St Josephs and Dayton and yet they look like the stronger of the teams in the finals and I have zero love for UCONN but a lot of respect for what they have accomplished. If anything, this tourney has shown that there are only small differences between many of the teams competing, including those thought to be mid-majors.

uhhhh uconn didn't play dayton, I think you're misremembering....perhaps you meant MSU, which was certainly the closest of their remaining games after st. joes....but they also never relinquished the lead down the stretch, which really means nothing, other than if a shot along the way hadn't falled it would be a different game

sigh. the trials and tribulations of weighted random variables.

[roywhite]

I hate Kentucky as much as the next guy, but this Kentucky team has earned it.

They beat a dangerous Kansas St team, an undefeated Wichita St and then a Louisville team many expected to get to the Final Four. And then Michigan, the Big 10 winner, and now an experienced and disciplined Wisconsin team. Margin be damned, they won and advanced.

If Kentucky beats UConn tomorrow, they would be deserving champion. It would have been better if it was Florida, but man, this Kentucky team has proven it on the court.

You have to give it to them. Despite being young and still making young mistakes, this team has pulled it together.

Agree. I generally don't like either school or program.

But I do like the way each team is playing and each would be a worthy champion. Plus it's been good basketball to watch.

Let the better team win, and salute.

[CameronBlue]

I hate Kentucky as much as the next guy, but this Kentucky team has earned it.



You underestimate me.
----Next Guy

[Atlanta Duke]

this will be the first final in a long time that i just don't care to watch……either team wins and i'm bummed.. :(

Maryland - Indiana in 2002 was the last one I recall. Maryland for obvious reasons and Indiana because Mike Davis got on my last nerve.

Great title on back page of New York Daily News this morning

"Pros & Conn" :)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/the-week

[ice-9]

i don't think calhoun, good as he was as a coach, would have been able to do what ollie has done the past couple years....plus he had some major health issues that I think the lack of stress/daily practice has helped a great deal. he looks a lot better now than he did when he was coaching. he's clearly happy for ollie, and I hope he can stay happy. He always said he would leave after a mediocre season, and he did just that, and couldn't have left the program in better hands.

It was my impression that Calhoun left the UConn program in shambles when he left?

[uh_no]

It was my impression that Calhoun left the UConn program in shambles when he left?

He Left them with shabazz Napier. .. and Kevin Ollie. ..

[2008grad]

5 years ago I would have been with everyone else saying I wasn't going to watch the nat'l championship and rant about how much I hate Kentucky. I'm a lifelong Duke fan and 2008 graduate. I moved to Lexington in 2010 to get a PhD at UK. While Duke will always be number 1, I now have no beef with Kentucky--especially this year's team.

What player can you rag on? It is a bunch of 18 year old freshman who have been criticized ALL year long. I mean...brutal stuff has been said about them. They are quiet and humble. A total dumpster fire for most of the season but now we are seeing this team click at the right time. If you are a college basketball fan, it is fascinating to watch. So when I hear Duke fans lament that the basketball gods are against us, I can't help but roll my eyes.

You want to criticize Calipari and Kentucky for the one-and-done stuff? Saying they aren't "student-athletes." Fine. But when you make that argument don't forget why the term "student-athlete" was developed. It was created by the NCAA to protect the schools. If you have a serious injury with Duke across your chest, who pays for your medical bills? Certainly not the university! You are a student first! The term wasn't created with the players best interest in mind. Remember that. If you are able to achieve your dream after one year of college, why not take it--whether it be an entrepreneur, journalist, or basketball player?

You want to criticize Kentucky for being a dirty program? Fine, but I would look to the statement: "Perception is reality." The perception of Kentucky is a dirty program. Everyone remembers the SHAME Sports Illustrated cover. They did something wrong. They were punished. Then they get Cal, things happen including Eric Bledsoe's eligibility, Kanter's eligibility, etc. You see lots of press about it..."typical Kentucky and Calipari cheating tactics." The perception of Duke is a clean program--therefore it is also the reality. So when things like Lance Thomas's $100,000 jewelry purchase comes out, it is briefly reported on and dismissed. Same thing with Corey Maggette and Myron Piggy back in the day. We do things the right way at Duke, so these are aberrations.

You want to criticize the rabid, annoying kentucky fan base? OK, but we also have a wild and annoying fan base...called the Cameron Crazies and I love them for it.

So I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's game and will be happily pulling for Kentucky while simultaneously anxiously awaiting Duke's run at the title next year.

[rsvman]

5 years ago I would have been with everyone else saying I wasn't going to watch the nat'l championship and rant about how much I hate Kentucky. I'm a lifelong Duke fan and 2008 graduate. I moved to Lexington in 2010 to get a PhD at UK. While Duke will always be number 1, I now have no beef with Kentucky--especially this year's team.

What player can you rag on? It is a bunch of 18 year old freshman who have been criticized ALL year long. I mean...brutal stuff has been said about them. They are quiet and humble. A total dumpster fire for most of the season but now we are seeing this team click at the right time. If you are a college basketball fan, it is fascinating to watch. So when I hear Duke fans lament that the basketball gods are against us, I can't help but roll my eyes.

You want to criticize Calipari and Kentucky for the one-and-done stuff? Saying they aren't "student-athletes." Fine. But when you make that argument don't forget why the term "student-athlete" was developed. It was created by the NCAA to protect the schools. If you have a serious injury with Duke across your chest, who pays for your medical bills? Certainly not the university! You are a student first! The term wasn't created with the players best interest in mind. Remember that. If you are able to achieve your dream after one year of college, why not take it--whether it be an entrepreneur, journalist, or basketball player?

You want to criticize Kentucky for being a dirty program? Fine, but I would look to the statement: "Perception is reality." The perception of Kentucky is a dirty program. Everyone remembers the SHAME Sports Illustrated cover. They did something wrong. They were punished. Then they get Cal, things happen including Eric Bledsoe's eligibility, Kanter's eligibility, etc. You see lots of press about it..."typical Kentucky and Calipari cheating tactics." The perception of Duke is a clean program--therefore it is also the reality. So when things like Lance Thomas's $100,000 jewelry purchase comes out, it is briefly reported on and dismissed. Same thing with Corey Maggette and Myron Piggy back in the day. We do things the right way at Duke, so these are aberrations.

You want to criticize the rabid, annoying kentucky fan base? OK, but we also have a wild and annoying fan base...called the Cameron Crazies and I love them for it.

So I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's game and will be happily pulling for Kentucky while simultaneously anxiously awaiting Duke's run at the title next year.

Probably a fair point that fan bases tend to exaggerate the demonic nature of other university's programs/fan bases.

I am a fan of neither Kentucky nor UConn, but truth be told, both institutions and their fans have good people and bad people among them. No matter which team wins, it's not really going to affect my life in any measurable way. (That won't stop me from being unhappy about the outcome, however.)

[chainsaw]

Maryland - Indiana in 2002 was the last one I recall. Maryland for obvious reasons and Indiana because Mike Davis got on my last nerve.

Great title on back page of New York Daily News this morning

"Pros & Conn" :)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/the-week

I'm sure the editor is really bummed that Calhoun retired, so they couldn't run it with "Pros and Cons"

[MCFinARL]

He Left them with shabazz Napier. .. and Kevin Ollie. ..

Yeah, the "shambles" was that UConn faced penalties because of its APR, and Ollie's first team, last year, was ineligible for post-season play, and a couple of players, including Alex Oriakhi (who, as a rising senior, was allowed to transfer without waiting a year to play because of the ban) and Roscoe Smith, transferred out of the program.

But Kevin Ollie has done a great job and Shabazz Napier has obviously made a huge difference.

I am so used to loathing UConn (forgive me, uh_no; it goes back to 2004, and before) that I was a little shocked to find myself cheering vigorously for them in their game against Florida. But they are actually not very loathable right now. Ollie appears to be an excellent coach, and he has made sure the program is back on track academically as well. The team is playing a very skilled form of basketball and they don't appear to be either roughnecks or egomaniacs. So I like them.

And I will have no trouble rooting for them to beat Kentucky, even though--as others have pointed out in this thread--even this Kentucky team has earned what it has gotten in this tournament, has worked hard and together for it, and deserves our respect.

On the women's side, though--even though I think the chances of a team other than UConn winning are slim, I will go ABC--anybody but Connecticut, just to see if another team can get a foot in the championship door.

Go Huskies!

[dukelifer]

More discouraging news about tomorrow's game - the winner ties Duke for most titles (4) in the modern tourney era (1985-present). Gag

One could make an argument that UConn has the best basketball program in the country when you look at Men and Women- yet they rarely get the national respect of Duke,UNC, MSU, KY and KU. I wonder if it is because of their non-descript fan base or just not enough history. It is remarkable that UConn has soared above Maryland, Virginia and many other State schools with much longer histories in the game. You wonder with the loss of the Big East if this will continue.

[uh_no]

One could make an argument that UConn has the best basketball program in the country when you look at Men and Women- yet they rarely get the national respect of Duke,UNC, MSU, KY and KU. I wonder if it is because of their non-descript fan base or just not enough history. It is remarkable that UConn has soared above Maryland, Virginia and many other State schools with much longer histories in the game. You wonder with the loss of the Big East if this will continue.

for uconn, the size of the fanbase is really a huge inhibitor.....being the third smallest state in the country (delaware/rhode island) there aren't too many casual fans of them like there are for duke/UNC.

as you point out, they weren't really a powerhouse until later than many of those other guys, meaning they lost out on some of the national publicity when a lot of fanhoods (i would imagine) were being forged. They rose up with the big east, though, that's for sure, and in the end, likely ended up with the best coach of the lot, in terms of records anyway.

I think the overwhelming success of the women's program has had a positive effect on the mens as well...it ensures they get more publicity as a school, and even relatively mundane accomplishments for the men (being ranked/being in the tournament/winning) are turned extraordinary (ONLY SCHOOL WITH BOTH TEAMS RANKED/BEING IN THE TOURNAMENT/WINNING/WHATEVER).

further, as there is literally NOTHING else going for the state of connecticut, the people rally around huskies basketball...so there is a lot of passion there statewide, even if the inconvenient stadia locations make it difficult for most people to get to games often....but you certainly saw it come out in NY last week. but because it's the only thing going, the university and state pump it up....they just got a new practice facility on par with the K center at duke

the last thing they've got going for them is they're relatively isolated in terms of power programs in a very densely populated area (the northeast in general).....so they have huge recruiting clout.

kemba was from NY
omar calhoun is from NY (under performing aside)
napier is from massachusetts
olander is from connecticut
terrance samuel is from NY

so if you're from the far side of the hudson, you have to strongly consider uconn as a place to go. that combined with the fact that they do get a good amount of their publicity (probably a step below duke/unc, but most schools are) along with their success both at the college level and putting guys in the NBA allows them to recruit nationally as well,

boatright is from Illinois
daniels is from california

and they seem to have had a lot of success pulling darkhorses from overseas....with giffey, brimah, and thabeet 5 years ago.

so they do have a lot going for them....

the loss of the big east certainly was a huge blow to the school, and that was clear as susan herbst was effectively begging the ACC for an acceptance....but unfortunately uconn doesn't pull the football TV numbers to make things swing into their favor. There is some hope for the AAC though....there are other proud schools in that league, obviously uconn, as well as cincinnati, and memphis, not to mention the fact that SMU seemse to have gotten jobbed by the committee....and after uconn and louisville's strong showings, it would seem the conference was underrated as a whole

where it will go? who knows. but uconn (both men and women) need to make sure they are still playing top tier basketball at some point, regardless of what the in conference schedule throws them....though I obviously miss playing nova, georgetown, syracuse, pitt and the like every year, I gotta hope that new rivalries emerge.

[MaxAMillion]

5 years ago I would have been with everyone else saying I wasn't going to watch the nat'l championship and rant about how much I hate Kentucky. I'm a lifelong Duke fan and 2008 graduate. I moved to Lexington in 2010 to get a PhD at UK. While Duke will always be number 1, I now have no beef with Kentucky--especially this year's team.

What player can you rag on? It is a bunch of 18 year old freshman who have been criticized ALL year long. I mean...brutal stuff has been said about them. They are quiet and humble. A total dumpster fire for most of the season but now we are seeing this team click at the right time. If you are a college basketball fan, it is fascinating to watch. So when I hear Duke fans lament that the basketball gods are against us, I can't help but roll my eyes.

You want to criticize Calipari and Kentucky for the one-and-done stuff? Saying they aren't "student-athletes." Fine. But when you make that argument don't forget why the term "student-athlete" was developed. It was created by the NCAA to protect the schools. If you have a serious injury with Duke across your chest, who pays for your medical bills? Certainly not the university! You are a student first! The term wasn't created with the players best interest in mind. Remember that. If you are able to achieve your dream after one year of college, why not take it--whether it be an entrepreneur, journalist, or basketball player?

You want to criticize Kentucky for being a dirty program? Fine, but I would look to the statement: "Perception is reality." The perception of Kentucky is a dirty program. Everyone remembers the SHAME Sports Illustrated cover. They did something wrong. They were punished. Then they get Cal, things happen including Eric Bledsoe's eligibility, Kanter's eligibility, etc. You see lots of press about it..."typical Kentucky and Calipari cheating tactics." The perception of Duke is a clean program--therefore it is also the reality. So when things like Lance Thomas's $100,000 jewelry purchase comes out, it is briefly reported on and dismissed. Same thing with Corey Maggette and Myron Piggy back in the day. We do things the right way at Duke, so these are aberrations.

You want to criticize the rabid, annoying kentucky fan base? OK, but we also have a wild and annoying fan base...called the Cameron Crazies and I love them for it.

So I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's game and will be happily pulling for Kentucky while simultaneously anxiously awaiting Duke's run at the title next year.


I like your response to then they get Cal...."things happen". Well if you think the Cal way and Coach K way are close to the same then there is nothing to really argue about. Also, if you think fans who buy tickets to tournament games just to show up and boo Duke is the same as the Cameron Crazies, then we will have to agree to disagree. I don't see Duke students with t-shirts claiming to hate UK players.

Sorry, I don't view UK and Duke as the same in any way. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion.

[_Gary]

I'll get flamed for saying this, but what the heck. I'm not getting sporked so I might as well go down in flames. It's my honest opinion, so here it is:

I can't fathom any true-Blue Duke fan rooting for either of these teams. We have so much history (some positive, more recently negative) with both that it just boggles my mind that anyone could find any reason, possibly apart from graduating from either institution (my condolences if that's the case), to pull for UK or UConn. Those two schools are only behind UNC as hostile, hope-they-never-win-another-title again teams.

Root for either UK or UConn? "Inconceivable." And yes, I know what that word means.

Flame away.

[Atlanta Duke]

You want to criticize Kentucky for being a dirty program? Fine, but I would look to the statement: "Perception is reality." The perception of Kentucky is a dirty program. Everyone remembers the SHAME Sports Illustrated cover. They did something wrong. They were punished. Then they get Cal, things happen including Eric Bledsoe's eligibility, Kanter's eligibility, etc. You see lots of press about it..."typical Kentucky and Calipari cheating tactics." The perception of Duke is a clean program--therefore it is also the reality. So when things like Lance Thomas's $100,000 jewelry purchase comes out, it is briefly reported on and dismissed. Same thing with Corey Maggette and Myron Piggy back in the day. We do things the right way at Duke, so these are aberrations.

Oh it goes back a lot further than the Eddie Sutton era and is a lot more than perception.

Kentucky basketball players Ralph Beard, Alex Groza and Dale Barnstable [were arrested] for accepting $500 bribes to shave points in an NIT game against Loyola of Chicago in Madison Square Garden in 1949....

Bill Spivey, Kentucky's All-American center and leading player on the NCAA champions of 1951, was barred on March 2, 1952 from athletic play at the university....

Kentucky coach Adolph Rupp had claimed his team was untouchable: "They couldn't reach my boys with a ten-foot pole." He was wrong. The NCAA suspended the Kentucky basketball program for the 1952-53 season.

http://espn.go.com/classic/s/basketball_scandals_explosion.html

The Kentucky program has been wearing a for sale sign around its neck since the Truman Administration. Hiring a coach of two Final Four teams that were stripped of their victories is but one chapter in a college basketball tradition unlike any other.

[uh_no]

I'll get flamed for saying this, but what the heck. I'm not getting sporked so I might as well go down in flames. It's my honest opinion, so here it is:

I can't fathom any true-Blue Duke fan rooting for either of these teams. We have so much history (some positive, more recently negative) with both that it just boggles my mind that anyone could find any reason, possibly apart from graduating from either institution (my condolences if that's the case), to pull for UK or UConn. Those two schools are only behind UNC as hostile, hope-they-never-win-another-title again teams.

Root for either UK or UConn? "Inconceivable." And yes, I know what that word means.

Flame away.

i would argue that having grown up in kentucky or connecticut ought to get you a pass....at least in connecticut's case, the state doesn't have anything else going for it this side of the Trinity College squash team.

[Wander]

One could make an argument that UConn has the best basketball program in the country when you look at Men and Women

Well, if you combine men and women, I don't think anyone even comes close to UConn.

Even in men's basketball alone - if they win tomorrow, you probably have to say they're the best basketball program of the past 20 years (which I admit is a completely arbitrary time frame).

[Duke95]

I would say UConn has the best overall basketball in the country over the last 25 years or so. No doubt.

As far as tomorrow, I can't root against either of these teams. This year's UK and UConn teams are both very likable. I can't point to anything negative about either of them.

[2008grad]

I like your response to then they get Cal...."things happen". Well if you think the Cal way and Coach K way are close to the same then there is nothing to really argue about. Also, if you think fans who buy tickets to tournament games just to show up and boo Duke is the same as the Cameron Crazies, then we will have to agree to disagree. I don't see Duke students with t-shirts claiming to hate UK players.

Sorry, I don't view UK and Duke as the same in any way. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion.

Cal didn't have much to do high school transcripts or foolish eligibility rules of overseas players. I guess it is the NCAA prerogative to investigate whoever they want.

Not sure I view UK and Duke in the same way either. In fact, they are quite different. One is an elite private institution and the other is a public school located in one of the poorest states in the US. I quickly learned that basketball is something that connects nearly everyone in the state. I remember being back on the quad and in downtown Durham in 2010 and being in Lexington when they won in 2012. Basketball is so enmeshed into the state of Kentucky's culture that it is almost ineffable. Rewind back to "the shot." It was a team full of Kentucky kids. It was something special. The Last Great Game by Gene Wojciechowski does a great job setting it all up. For people in the state of Kentucky, it was more than just a game. So, I can't really fault the "I Still Hate Laettner" t-shirts. Laettner has given these shirts out at charity events in Lexington over the past few years, so I don't see it as a problem.

As for Cal and Coach K, I don't recall saying that I think they are close to the same. However, I do agree that they are close to the same in that they want their players to succeed, they give massive amounts of their own money to the communities in which they live, and are men of family and faith.

[2008grad]

I'll get flamed for saying this, but what the heck. I'm not getting sporked so I might as well go down in flames. It's my honest opinion, so here it is:

I can't fathom any true-Blue Duke fan rooting for either of these teams. We have so much history (some positive, more recently negative) with both that it just boggles my mind that anyone could find any reason, possibly apart from graduating from either institution (my condolences if that's the case), to pull for UK or UConn. Those two schools are only behind UNC as hostile, hope-they-never-win-another-title again teams.

Root for either UK or UConn? "Inconceivable." And yes, I know what that word means.

Flame away.

I do understand where you are coming from. But I am a true-Blue Duke fan rooting for UK. Having graduated from both Duke and UK (no condolences necessary--actually a funny aside--my perception of UK almost swayed me to not come here--but it is a top 10 institution in my field, so I gave in) I have a slightly different viewpoint. But if someone is a Duke fan and has not attended or lived in the state of Kentucky, I'd be confused as to why they would be cheering for UK as well. That being said, while I would not actively cheer for UK, I would say, "whoa...we are seeing a fascinating run...this is what march madness is all about."

[MCFinARL]

i would argue that having grown up in kentucky or connecticut ought to get you a pass....at least in connecticut's case, the state doesn't have anything else going for it this side of the Trinity College squash team.

But that is a REALLY GOOD squash team. And there is a restaurant I like in New Haven.

[Rich]

Well, if you combine men and women, I don't think anyone even comes close to UConn.

Even in men's basketball alone - if they win tomorrow, you probably have to say they're the best basketball program of the past 20 years (which I admit is a completely arbitrary time frame).

Which makes you wonder, why is there still such a national backlash, if not outright hatred, for Duke basketball but not the same dislike for a program such as UConn's?

[_Gary]

Which makes you wonder, why is there still such a national backlash, if not outright hatred, for Duke basketball but not the same dislike for a program such as UConn's?

Because you need the media to help fuel that type of national "hate", and ESPN's home is in Connecticut. That one fact alone will probably keep it from ever happening, imho.

[MaxAMillion]

I would say UConn has the best overall basketball in the country over the last 25 years or so. No doubt.

As far as tomorrow, I can't root against either of these teams. This year's UK and UConn teams are both very likable. I can't point to anything negative about either of them.

I definitely think there is some doubt. I don't ignore the regular season which so many do. Duke's regular season performances match up with anyone on a year end year out basis. I don't ignore the fact that Coach K basically has not had one appearance in the NIT in the last two decades where he coached start to finish. Those things matter when judging a program. Plus if you go back twenty five years then you get back to 1990. Duke was pretty good back then.

[uh_no]

Because you need the media to help fuel that type of national "hate", and ESPN's home is in Connecticut. That one fact alone will probably keep it from ever happening, imho.

or perhaps more likely: uconn has never had a continued long stretch of uninterrupted success....they've missed the tournament 4 times since 2001, and have never had consecutive final fours, or even final fours not interleaved with a missed tournament

further, uconn never had the "sqeaky clean always do things right" feel that duke has, and for good reason. the hate stemmed from the fact that duke was both astoundingly successful for a long stretch, and could do absolutely no wrong

also contributing, duke always had UNC....so if you liked unc, you hated duke (same goes with maryland to a lesser degree).....uconn, on the other hand, never had a true rival....there was just the big east....bit of pitt, bit of cuse and nova and georgetown....so there was no group of people to poit at uconn and hate...it's also generally much more difficult to hate a public school...especially as compared to an ivy-league-like elite private university.

[uh_no]

I definitely think there is some doubt. I don't ignore the regular season which so many do. Duke's regular season performances match up with anyone on a year end year out basis. I don't ignore the fact that Coach K basically has not had one appearance in the NIT in the last two decades where he coached start to finish. Those things matter when judging a program. Plus if you go back twenty five years then you get back to 1990. Duke was pretty good back then.

yes, but remember that the OP was considering mens+womens....

so while duke may have a better mens program over the time frame...when you factor in 8 championships to nada on the women's side, duke loses almost all claim

[Atlanta Duke]

it's also generally much more difficult to hate a public school...especially as compared to an ivy-league-like elite private university.

Agreed. I think the media helps stir the pot through combining a chance to play faux populist by tossing rocks at the decades of basketball success by a private school with a two for one opportunity for sports media types in the Northeast, some of whom went to Ivy League schools, to take shots at a highly rated private school in the South tied to white players such as Ferry, Laettner, Hurley and JJ.

Some may have read this week of the high school kid who was accepted at all the Ivies plus Duke. This from New York Magazine:

How does one guy get into all eight Ivy League schools? .... He was also accepted at three SUNY campuses (they call those "safety schools") and Duke. Just don’t go to Duke, kid.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/04/kwasi-enin-accepted-eight-ivy-league-schools.html

[sagegrouse]

Which makes you wonder, why is there still such a national backlash, if not outright hatred, for Duke basketball but not the same dislike for a program such as UConn's?


Because you need the media to help fuel that type of national "hate", and ESPN's home is in Connecticut. That one fact alone will probably keep it from ever happening, imho.

(a) Duke is the face of college hoops because it has been successful and the U. is not named after a state.

(b) "Hatred for hoops?" Yeah, among the pimply-faced adolescents who don't have a life. (Admittedly, some are over 30). The casual fans I know out west all like Duke.

(c) Just remember, in any city, the winner of the survey for the "best restaurant in town" also wins for "most overpriced." Duke is easily the best-known basketball program, and therefore, gets some reactions across the spectrum. No one hates Wichita State or Florida Gulf Coast.

(d) Giving in to the myth of "Duke hatred" is joining the other side. ESPN would probably pay 1/2 of K's salary if he agreed to coach until age 80.

Kindly, Sage

[uh_no]

ESPN would probably pay 1/2 of K's salary if he agreed to coach until age 80.


can we make this happen? for real?

[Atlanta Duke]

Any true believer UConn or UK fans who put $$$ on their team at the start of the tournament are going to be very happy around 11:30 p.m. EDT tonight.

Vegas gave odds at 33-1 for Kentucky to win it all three weeks ago. U-Conn was a 66-1 shot.

http://www.streakingthelawn.com/2014/3/17/5518466/ncaa-tournament-2014-regional-championship-vegas-odds-sports-betting

[Mike Corey]

The more interesting matchup is on the women's side, and it isn't close. Go Irish.

I like Coach Ollie, and hope his team wins. I will look forward to not reading about the outcome in tomorrow's newspaper.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Interesting article by John Feinstein - Article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/ncaa-tournament-final-mark-emmert-john-calipari-are-two-of-a-kind/2014/04/06/ff9862c0-bdd8-11e3-b195-dd0c1174052c_story.html)

According to the article Kevin Ollie has 51 wins as a head coach.

John Calipari has had 42 wins vacated.

SoCal

[uh_no]

The more interesting matchup is on the women's side, and it isn't close. Go Irish.

I like Coach Ollie, and hope his team wins. I will look forward to not reading about the outcome in tomorrow's newspaper.

ND looked really good yesterday, and Uconn looked terribly....i'm not sure which I would hate more....the men losing to cal, or the women losing to muffet.

[flyingdutchdevil]

...but I really want UCONN to win. Ollie seems like a good guy and Napier is just a stud. Plus, they play really sexy defense (I mean historically Duke-style sexy defense).

Oh, and Calipari is just a bad dude.

Go Huskies!

[luvdahops]

i would argue that having grown up in kentucky or connecticut ought to get you a pass....at least in connecticut's case, the state doesn't have anything else going for it this side of the Trinity College squash team.

Dude, have you ever been to Connecticut? The state as a whole may be a mixed bag, but Fairfield County (home to towns like Greenwich, New Canaan and Darien, among others) is among the wealthiest in the US, and considered by many to be one of the nation's most desirable places to live. And Fairfield County is hardly the only nice part of the state.

[cato]

Dude, have you ever been to Connecticut? The state as a whole may be a mixed bag, but Fairfield County (home to towns like Greenwich, New Canaan and Darien, among others) is among the wealthiest in the US, and considered by many to be one of the nation's most desirable places to live. And Fairfield County is hardly the only nice part of the state.

I took uh_no's comments to be limited to rooting interest. And (s)he has an excellent point: growing up in Connecticut, UConn and your local high school are just about the only in-state options for a sports team. Of course, there are plenty of regional pro teams if you are in either the NY or Boston spheres of influence.

That said, I don't recall Fairfield County being a UConn hotbed or anything. Growing up a Duke fan, I was just as likely to get grief from kids pulling for Georgetown as UConn. Mercifully, I did not have to deal with Carolina or Kentucky fans.

Either way, my beef with UConn has faded considerably. And this Kentucky team has won me over. I'm looking forward to this game as much as any I can recall in recent years (2010 being a notable exception). I'll be pulling for UConn, but mostly just want to see a game that lives up to all the great games over the past two weeks.

[uh_no]

Dude, have you ever been to Connecticut? The state as a whole may be a mixed bag, but Fairfield County (home to towns like Greenwich, New Canaan and Darien, among others) is among the wealthiest in the US, and considered by many to be one of the nation's most desirable places to live. And Fairfield County is hardly the only nice part of the state.

20 years Thank you very much.

[luvdahops]

I took uh_no's comments to be limited to rooting interest. And (s)he has an excellent point: growing up in Connecticut, UConn and your local high school are just about the only in-state options for a sports team. Of course, there are plenty of regional pro teams if you are in either the NY or Boston spheres of influence.

That said, I don't recall Fairfield County being a UConn hotbed or anything. Growing up a Duke fan, I was just as likely to get grief from kids pulling for Georgetown as UConn. Mercifully, I did not have to deal with Carolina or Kentucky fans.

Either way, my beef with UConn has faded considerably. And this Kentucky team has won me over. I'm looking forward to this game as much as any I can recall in recent years (2010 being a notable exception). I'll be pulling for UConn, but mostly just want to see a game that lives up to all the great games over the past two weeks.

Aaaah, missed the subtlely there completely. I lived in Fairfield County for 5 years and still visit 1-2x a year as my wife has family there. My sense is that the area has become something of a UConn hotbed in the last 15 years or so, judging by coverage in the local press and sportswear sales, though that still lags ties to the NY area pro franchises, especially the Yankees.

[uh_no]

Aaaah, missed the subtlely there completely. I lived in Fairfield County for 5 years and still visit 1-2x a year as my wife has family there. My sense is that the area has become something of a UConn hotbed in the last 15 years or so, judging by coverage in the local press and sportswear sales, though that still lags ties to the NY area pro franchises, especially the Yankees.

While mostly constrained to sports, there is some truth to other things. Outside fairfield county, while certainly some nice spots (and it is all beautiful), the state is not particularly well off economically. Poeple are leaving the state in record numbers (one of the highest % of people leaving the state in the country), it's not a place where companies go to set up shop...and the current state of the cities are not particularly enticing. Hartford, New Haven, Stanford, Bridgeport....they're not really great cities....they're a lot like detroit in that they didn't do well adapting to a post-industrial condition.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mkl45edmml/5-connecticut/

3 people left the state for every 2 people that moved in. and personally, I'm not sure I could justify a move back to the state, as much as I love it and would like to live there again, considering the lack of job opportunities relative to many other places as well as the high tax rate.

It's really a shame, since it's incredibly beautiful and has a phenomenal history. So in some sense, connecticut basketball is able to draw the state together and give them something to cheer for.

[roywhite]

While mostly constrained to sports, there is some truth to other things. Outside fairfield county, while certainly some nice spots (and it is all beautiful), the state is not particularly well off economically. Poeple are leaving the state in record numbers (one of the highest % of people leaving the state in the country), it's not a place where companies go to set up shop...and the current state of the cities are not particularly enticing. Hartford, New Haven, Stanford, Bridgeport....they're not really great cities....they're a lot like detroit in that they didn't do well adapting to a post-industrial condition.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mkl45edmml/5-connecticut/

3 people left the state for every 2 people that moved in. and personally, I'm not sure I could justify a move back to the state, as much as I love it and would like to live there again, considering the lack of job opportunities relative to many other places as well as the high tax rate.

It's really a shame, since it's incredibly beautiful and has a phenomenal history. So in some sense, connecticut basketball is able to draw the state together and give them something to cheer for.

Thanks for the info. Seriously, I learned something.

My perception was that Connecticut was likely prospering from the expansion of the NY metro area and the Boston metro area. I realize now looking at a map that Boston is really not that close, and that the NY Metro area doesn't account for much of the area of Connecticut. Your point about the loss of old industrial jobs seems very telling.

One value of the EK board -- one picks up bits of knowledge, many of them not directly related to basketball.

[Atlanta Duke]

Greg Anthony seemed to want to just keep talking without thinking on that play. Kerr was right on each point. Missing the continuation possibility point in particular was clear for Anthony.

Mark Titus on the Kerr-Anthony discussions

Kerr and Anthony are going to fight on air at some point, and it’s going to be the best

http://grantland.com/features/12-ncaa-tournament-observations-final-four-kentucky-uconn/

Given his reference to Greg Anthony as "Captain Hindsight" I think Titus is on Team Kerr

[luvdahops]

While mostly constrained to sports, there is some truth to other things. Outside fairfield county, while certainly some nice spots (and it is all beautiful), the state is not particularly well off economically. Poeple are leaving the state in record numbers (one of the highest % of people leaving the state in the country), it's not a place where companies go to set up shop...and the current state of the cities are not particularly enticing. Hartford, New Haven, Stanford, Bridgeport....they're not really great cities....they're a lot like detroit in that they didn't do well adapting to a post-industrial condition.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mkl45edmml/5-connecticut/

3 people left the state for every 2 people that moved in. and personally, I'm not sure I could justify a move back to the state, as much as I love it and would like to live there again, considering the lack of job opportunities relative to many other places as well as the high tax rate.

It's really a shame, since it's incredibly beautiful and has a phenomenal history. So in some sense, connecticut basketball is able to draw the state together and give them something to cheer for.

Thanks for sharing the additional perspective and the link (very interesting list, btw). I would agree that CT is in many ways a "tale of two states", Fairfield County and everything else, and that UConn hoops (mens and womens) has been a uniting factor. And that the state is quite beautiful and has great history, but would be tough to move back to (as I much as I love it, too).

[sagegrouse]

A turn of the phrase by John Feinstein:


On Monday night, we will see the best of what is a wonderful sport. We will see two excellent coaches — Kevin Ollie with 51 career wins, Calipari with 42 vacated career wins — and two teams that have played their hearts out to reach the season’s final 40 minutes.

[gumbomoop]

After Duke's early exit, I wouldn't have imagined being able to enjoy this tourney, especially as I don't enjoy the game of basketball these days as much as football -- the one where the players actually use their feet.

But in spite of myself I was drawn in by the Dayton, Stanford, IowaSt, and Tennessee stories. Even more by the Selection Committee's crummy path for WichitaSt and then the WSt-UK game itself. Then the UL-UK game itself. The fact that I couldn't watch the UVa-MichSt game was irritating, but the tourney was developing compelling story lines, even if to my disappointment those stories involved teams I do not support, to put it mildly.

As with many on EK, I sure was rooting for Mich and Wisconsin, and that Wisconsin team is a legit FF group.

As an aside, I have learned that the UK guys have during the season received some pretty nasty comments from fair-weather UK fanatics. Not hard to imagine after those losses to Ark and SC, and even the OT home win v. LSU.

On matchups for the game tonight, I assume Ollie will need to get close to 40 minutes and 10+ fouls out of his 3 centers -- Nolan, Brimah, and even Olander. Looking at their season stats and the MichSt game, I'd have to think Ollie will not be able to play small-ball with only Giffey and Daniels inside. While it's true that UK has been winning with last-minute/second 3-bombs, their strategy lately has often been just get it to the rim for O-rebounds and jams.

Will be fascinating to see whether Ollie goes against logic, and depends on small-ball perimeter to harass UK, as a way to stop them from using their O-rebound dominance.

[mr. synellinden]

After Duke's early exit, I wouldn't have imagined being able to enjoy this tourney, especially as I don't enjoy the game of basketball these days as much as football -- the one where the players actually use their feet.

But in spite of myself I was drawn in by the Dayton, Stanford, IowaSt, and Tennessee stories. Even more by the Selection Committee's crummy path for WichitaSt and then the WSt-UK game itself. Then the UL-UK game itself. The fact that I couldn't watch the UVa-MichSt game was irritating, but the tourney was developing compelling story lines, even if to my disappointment those stories involved teams I do not support, to put it mildly.

As with many on EK, I sure was rooting for Mich and Wisconsin, and that Wisconsin team is a legit FF group.

As an aside, I have learned that the UK guys have during the season received some pretty nasty comments from fair-weather UK fanatics. Not hard to imagine after those losses to Ark and SC, and even the OT home win v. LSU.

On matchups for the game tonight, I assume Ollie will need to get close to 40 minutes and 10+ fouls out of his 3 centers -- Nolan, Brimah, and even Olander. Looking at their season stats and the MichSt game, I'd have to think Ollie will not be able to play small-ball with only Giffey and Daniels inside. While it's true that UK has been winning with last-minute/second 3-bombs, their strategy lately has often been just get it to the rim for O-rebounds and jams.

Will be fascinating to see whether Ollie goes against logic, and depends on small-ball perimeter to harass UK, as a way to stop them from using their O-rebound dominance.

I think this game is going to be determined by the guards - and specifically the following. 1. Can UCONN's guards beat Kentucky's using their quickness (meaning on offense AND on defense to create turnovers) and will their shooting be affected by having to shoot over taller defenders; AND 2. Can Kentucky's guards drive against UCONN's backcourt AND can they hit 3s using their height advantage to shoot over them.

In other words, smaller/quicker, versus taller/bigger.

As good as Kentucky has been this tournament, I think UCONN has been better. Certainly their defense has been better and defense usually wins championships. I think Kentucky will get frustrated by UCONN's defense. And if it's a close game in the last 5 minutes, I think there are 2 factors that weigh in favor of the Huskies: 1) FT shooting - their guards are both incredible FT shooters; and 2) Youth/Inexperience - even though Kentucky has played very smart and been able to win games late, I have this feeling that tonight they could get flustered late in a tight game and they don't have one experienced player to lead them at a crucial stretch (yes, you could have said that about any game in the tourney so far, but I think when you're playing on Monday night it's a little different.).

UCONN 72 - UK 65.

[Karl Beem]

This is the ugliest FF ever. Every time they have a scenic shot, they show nothing but parked cars. Now half the pregame show is Kid Rock.

[FerryFor50]

Kentucky is finding out what it's like to have talent *and* experience. UConn's guards are putting on a show. Hopefully they keep pouring it on and the UConn defense keeps playing like they are.

[superdave]

Savvy veteran backcourt has UConn up early. But UK has started every game slow this tourney.

[FerryFor50]

Savvy veteran backcourt has UConn up early. But UK has started every game slow this tourney.

True but they haven't faced the quality of guard play or defense UConn is showing so far.

At some point the "throw it up at the rim and hope you get an offensive board" strategy is going to fail, right? Hopefully the game is too far out of reach by the end to see Harrison drain another dagger 3.

[moonpie23]

i'm coming to the realization that, i really can't hate either of these teams (the players)......i hate Calipari, and i hate calhoun.....






oh.....and rip hamilton....

[Trey21]

Liking how the game is going so far, but UK always seems to pull themselves out. This is the ultimate test with regard to UK's maturity. UCONN's backcourt is just dribbling circles around the twins right now. Boatright is playing great. He kind of reminds me of Cook in some respects. He is vocal and emotionally engaged, for better or for worse. Boatright is quicker and has better handles than Cook though.

[superdave]

i'm coming to the realization that, i really can't hate either of these teams (the players)......i hate Calipari, and i hate calhoun.....


oh.....and rip hamilton....

Yeah this is about right. I have nothing against Shabazz or Julius.

[FerryFor50]

Someone needs to teach Kentucky's bigs that blocking shots after they hit the backboard is an automatic basket.

[FerryFor50]

Now UConn is getting sloppy with the ball. Zone is bothering them.

[FerryFor50]

Completely unnecessary too, I might add. Napier and Boatright are getting whatever they want. Both turnovers were just lazy passes to no one in particular. Maybe getting little tired in the moment?

Perhaps. Or overconfident.

[left_hook_lacey]

Now UConn is getting sloppy with the ball. Zone is bothering them.

Completely unnecessary too, I might add. Napier and Boatright are getting whatever they want. Both turnovers were just lazy passes to no one in particular. Maybe getting little a little tired in the moment?

[FerryFor50]

Not sure how the last foul was any worse than the non-call when Dakari Johnson bodied up a guy on a block shot. I hate the calls on shots where a guy barely touches an arm, but no call when a guy slams his body into a shooter.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Got to like Ollie's intensity...halftime interviewer tried to set him up about how he was going to deal with KY because they were a second half team and he shot her down real quick saying "we're a second half team too"...

I don't know anything about Ollie, but seeing that reply tells me there's no wonder this UCONN team is so tough and focused.

[Kedsy]

I can't fathom any true-Blue Duke fan rooting for either of these teams. We have so much history (some positive, more recently negative) with both that it just boggles my mind that anyone could find any reason, possibly apart from graduating from either institution (my condolences if that's the case), to pull for UK or UConn. Those two schools are only behind UNC as hostile, hope-they-never-win-another-title again teams.

Root for either UK or UConn? "Inconceivable." And yes, I know what that word means.

Flame away.

This isn't a flame, but I don't get the hate for UConn. I have had my run-ins with obnoxious UConn fans at Final Fours, so I guess that's one point against them, but I've also had run-ins with obnoxious fans of other schools. I could sort of understand it when Calhoun was there, because he's not such a great guy, but by all accounts Kevin Ollie's not so bad. I'm rooting for UConn in this game, and while I don't root for them against most teams, I don't particularly get upset when they win, either, unless they beat a team I actively like.

The idea that I have to dislike teams that have beaten Duke in the past seems both silly and petty to me. Should I dislike Virginia because they beat Duke in the ACC title game this year? Should I dislike Wake Forest or Clemson because Duke occasionally loses to those teams? I just don't get it.

[left_hook_lacey]

Got to like Ollie's intensity...halftime interviewer tried to set him up about how he was going to deal with KY because they were a second half team and he shot her down real quick saying "we're a second half team too"...

I don't know anything about Ollie, but seeing that reply tells me there's no wonder this UCONN team is so tough and focused.

Totally agree. He even went on to say "so whatever Kentucky is we gonna go one step farther"

Gotta like that swag if you're a Uconn fan.

[brevity]

Someone needs to teach Kentucky's bigs...

Wojo already has a new job.

[gofurman]

Anyone notice how slim UConn is? Their best big is smaller than Amile !!! DeAndre Daniels is 6'9" at a whoppin 195 lbs. isn't Amile 210? Their 6'10" starter is 212 lbs. the freshman backup is 7' 217 lbs.
we were. Huge compared to UConn inside. Parker alone was 6'8 235

It's still a guards game. Napier and boatright have speed to burn ... I so hope UConn beats these freshman. Don't want to hear how great Calipari is at "bringing freshman together. ". How quickly we forget NIT Robert Morris.

Screw UK. Go huskies

[FerryFor50]

First foul on a Kentucky starter - 2 minutes into the 2nd half.

Ridiculous.

[brevity]

I keep having to come back to this thread. Man, the DBR Chat page is dead tonight.

[Bluedog]

I missed the first half, but in the second it looks like UConn thinks this is an And1 game. Trick dribbling, behind the back passes, so sloppy with the ball. Lucky to be up. Ugly second half thus far...

[left_hook_lacey]

I keep having to come back to this thread. Man, the DBR Chat page is dead tonight.

Maybe the powers that be should cast a wider net. I never got an invite. Is it still semi-private?

[gumbomoop]

Have to think Ollie will be forced to use Olander some, as one or more of UConn bigs likely to foul out.

[-jk]

Maybe the powers that be should cast a wider net. I never got an invite. Is it still semi-private?

You'd be able to chat. But we don't have it open tonight.

-jk

[brevity]

I keep having to come back to this thread. Man, the DBR Chat page is dead tonight.


But we don't have it open tonight.

Oh, well that explains it.

[gumbomoop]

Harrison might win it at end, but a big part of UK offense is throw it up, get O-rebound and slam.

[Duvall]

What a very silly sport.

[gurufrisbee]

This isn't a flame, but I don't get the hate for UConn. I have had my run-ins with obnoxious UConn fans at Final Fours, so I guess that's one point against them, but I've also had run-ins with obnoxious fans of other schools. I could sort of understand it when Calhoun was there, because he's not such a great guy, but by all accounts Kevin Ollie's not so bad. I'm rooting for UConn in this game, and while I don't root for them against most teams, I don't particularly get upset when they win, either, unless they beat a team I actively like.

The idea that I have to dislike teams that have beaten Duke in the past seems both silly and petty to me. Should I dislike Virginia because they beat Duke in the ACC title game this year? Should I dislike Wake Forest or Clemson because Duke occasionally loses to those teams? I just don't get it.


Everyone has their own reasons but for me it boils down to five things:

1) UConn robbed Duke of a title when Ricky Moore and El Amin ran over Duke players all night long
2) UConn robbed DUke of another title when Emeka Okafor jumped all over the back of all of our big men all night long but all of our guys ended up fouling out
3) I have nothing but disdain for college basketball programs with no value of education
4) Jim Calhoun is a jerk
5) THE most obnoxious fan of any sports team I know is a UConn fan

That's me.

[pfrduke]

At least it wasn't Kentucky.

[FerryFor50]

Ok, so Kentucky is really 6 and done...

So glad they didn't pull it out. Good to see seniors like Napier and Boatright get their title. Even better to see UK fans crying.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

OK, you committed the 6th foul, resetting the shot clock to 35, and burning an extra 12 seconds...why are you not committing the 7th foul? Terrible coaching decision. Coach Cal basically killed his team's chances there.

[gurufrisbee]

Yeah, I was even rooting for UConn there. Hate them both. Glad to see this season finally over.

[pfrduke]

Has anyone since the very early days of the tourney won a championship in his first year in the tournament? Pretty impressive run for Ollie.

[Duvall]

At least it wasn't Kentucky.

UConn is worse. At least a UK win would have said something bout the value of raw NBA talent. A UConn win just reinforces the fact that a single elimination tournament is a giant crapshoot, and that college basketball championships are basically meaningless.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

It's all worth seeing the Kentucky fans cry. Warms the heart.

[Atlanta Duke]

Everyone has their own reasons but for me it boils down to five things:

5) THE most obnoxious fan of any sports team I know is a UConn fan

That's me.

You apparently have not lived in SEC country:)

Very glad UK lost - only time I root for them is against UNC and that is a close call

[lotusland]

Lesser of two evils.

[_Gary]

Lesser of two evils.

Read my mind. I was literally typing that out when I saw your post.

[Here is a Turtle]

I can live with this result.

[Duvall]

I can't believe the two worst champions in three decades both came from the same school.

[gumbomoop]

I was rooting for Wisconsin. My tough luck. It's been an exciting tournament, lots of tense games, big plays.

[Kedsy]

Has anyone since the very early days of the tourney won a championship in his first year in the tournament? Pretty impressive run for Ollie.

In 1989, Steve Fisher won a championship in his 6th game as a head coach.

[Duvall]

What a joke this sport is. I miss the BCS.

[Atlanta Duke]

UConn is worse. At least a UK win would have said something bout the value of raw NBA talent. A UConn win just reinforces the fact that a single elimination tournament is a giant crapshoot, and that college basketball championships are basically meaningless.

You get the trophy just like the ACC tournament winner wins the conference - same argument can be made for 1983 NC State, 1985 Villanova and, for that matter, 1991 Duke over UNLV being meaningless - one and done has upsides as well as downsides in many ways - one and done is how the tournament sells itself

[superdave]

A few thoughts....

First 7 seed to win. 7/8 matchup is lowest combined seeding ever. Will we ever see another truly great college team?

Guard play is king in college. Napier/Boatright was pretty darn good. They started and finished games well.

Calipari is on the national stage with a likable group of kids. That will only help.

It's better to be a great defense than a great offense. O can feed off D. But not necessarily vice versa. It also helps to be able to switch between defensive schemes to changeup the game.

[NashvilleDevil]

You apparently have not lived in SEC country:)

Very glad UK lost - only time I root for them is against UNC and that is a close call

This is spot on.

[superdave]

I can't believe the two worst champions in three decades both came from the same school.

^
|

This

[Kedsy]

Everyone has their own reasons but for me it boils down to five things:

1) UConn robbed Duke of a title when Ricky Moore and El Amin ran over Duke players all night long
2) UConn robbed DUke of another title when Emeka Okafor jumped all over the back of all of our big men all night long but all of our guys ended up fouling out
3) I have nothing but disdain for college basketball programs with no value of education
4) Jim Calhoun is a jerk
5) THE most obnoxious fan of any sports team I know is a UConn fan

That's me.

I guess I don't think anyone robbed anyone of anything. UConn just happened to win those games. Did we "rob" UConn in 1990? Did we rob Kentucky in 1992? The fact that Kentucky thinks we did rob them is a justifiable source of ridicule on these boards. Why is UConn beating us 15 and 10 years ago any different?

Also, what do the 1999 and 2004 UConn teams, playing under a different coach, have to do with the 2014 UConn team?

[Dukehky]

I took no pleasure in that victory. Hilarious that the Calipari free throw bug bit him square on the rear end again. I hate UCONN because 2 of their titles came at Duke's expense with the help of their striped friends. But Kevin Ollie's UCONN is better than Calipari's Kentucky, who had players that I actually liked aside from the Harrisons.

I think there is a decent chance that UK doesn't make the tournament next year. They don't have the same level of game changing talent coming in next year and I think they're going to lose their top 7 players. Poythress and Dakari Johnson MIGHT return.

[gurufrisbee]

I guess I don't think anyone robbed anyone of anything. UConn just happened to win those games. Did we "rob" UConn in 1990? Did we rob Kentucky in 1992? The fact that Kentucky thinks we did rob them is a justifiable source of ridicule on these boards. Why is UConn beating us 15 and 10 years ago any different?

Also, what do the 1999 and 2004 UConn teams, playing under a different coach, have to do with the 2014 UConn team?

You're welcome to your opinion. No, I think Duke probably has robbed some other teams of games where they should have won, but UConn in 1990 and Kentucky in 1992 aren't ones.

It's all UConn. Odd that someone would have to explain that.

[gumbomoop]

UConn out rebounded UK. Didn't seem that way when UK did their powerful O-rebounds, but that's the stat.

[Kedsy]

A few thoughts....

First 7 seed to win. 7/8 matchup is lowest combined seeding ever.

First time ever that at least one of the teams in the championship game wasn't at least a 3-seed. Only the third time ever that one of the teams in the championship game wasn't at least a 2-seed (1989 and 2011 (UConn again) were the other two).


Will we ever see another truly great college team?

Huh? What would a "truly great college team" look like? Does that team have to win the NCAA championship? Were Kentucky in 2012 and Louisville in 2013 not "truly great"? Did the 2010 Duke team that finished 1st in Pomeroy, 3rd in the RPI, 4th in the polls, and won the natty not "truly great"?

I honestly have no idea what your point is here.

[gurufrisbee]

You apparently have not lived in SEC country:)

Very glad UK lost - only time I root for them is against UNC and that is a close call

Lived in Texas for a couple years, but that was before A&M went SEC.

I'm sure there are obnoxious fans everywhere. The worst one I know is a UConn fan. He's been saying for three weeks how no one in the world picked them to win even the first game and how everyone is always against them and he will send emails - dozens at a time - during the games about how every call is going against UConn.

[Kedsy]

You're welcome to your opinion. No, I think Duke probably has robbed some other teams of games where they should have won, but UConn in 1990 and Kentucky in 1992 aren't ones.

So, hitting a crazy shot at the buzzer isn't a "rob" but you (a fan) not agreeing with the officiating is? I guess you're welcome to your opinion too.


It's all UConn. Odd that someone would have to explain that.

Well, since four of your five reasons have absolutely nothing to do with this year's version of UConn, I think a reasonable explanation might be in order.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I guess I don't think anyone robbed anyone of anything. UConn just happened to win those games. Did we "rob" UConn in 1990? Did we rob Kentucky in 1992? The fact that Kentucky thinks we did rob them is a justifiable source of ridicule on these boards. Why is UConn beating us 15 and 10 years ago any different?

Also, what do the 1999 and 2004 UConn teams, playing under a different coach, have to do with the 2014 UConn team?

If you get a chance watch the 1999 NC game. Every questionable call goes UConn way.

The 2004 FF game Duke/UConn is regarded by most as the worst officiated game in FF history. Don't watch it, will make you throw up.

I do agree completely with your last thought. Calhoun is gone, the witch is dead. Kevin Ollie appears to be a class act and is certainly a class coach.

SoCal

[MaxAMillion]

Amazing that UConn lost to SMU twice. Louisville beat them by 30 points. Somehow they string together these great performances to win the tournament. You can actually say the same thing about UK. They went from losing every close game in the regular season to hitting every big shot in the last minute to win games in the tournament. Better UConn without Calhoun than Calipari for me.

[jacone21]

I was rooting for a massive, unfixable power failure at Jerry's World, but this result was my second choice. I'm quite happy not to see Calipari on that platform with Mr. Emmert.

[Dukehky]

Rodney Purvis just won a national championship and John Calipari just went to his 2nd Final Four. Crazy year. Not a mis-print, this is only Cal's 2nd Final Four.

[Kedsy]

Rodney Purvis just won a national championship and John Calipari just went to his 2nd Final Four. Crazy year. Not a mis-print, this is only Cal's 2nd Final Four.

This isn't even close to true. He's been to three Final Fours with UK, and none of them have been vacated yet. He also went to two Final Fours before that, the fact those two were vacated doesn't change the fact that he coached a team to the Final Four.

[superdave]

Huh? What would a "truly great college team" look like? Does that team have to win the NCAA championship? Were Kentucky in 2012 and Louisville in 2013 not "truly great"? Did the 2010 Duke team that finished 1st in Pomeroy, 3rd in the RPI, 4th in the polls, and won the natty not "truly great"?

I honestly have no idea what your point is here.

Great college teams that won it all - Duke 1992, UNLV 1990, Kentucky 1996, unc 1982. Those come to mind quickly.

The point is no one stays in school long so you get a result like this year where a good backcourt can win six in a row. UConn is good on most days but not great. On their worst day a great team should still have a chance to win. I don't remember the last time I saw that.

[gurufrisbee]

So, hitting a crazy shot at the buzzer isn't a "rob" but you (a fan) not agreeing with the officiating is? I guess you're welcome to your opinion too.
.

It's one play. It doesn't define an entire game.



Well, since four of your five reasons have absolutely nothing to do with this year's version of UConn, I think a reasonable explanation might be in order.

It's all UConn. You don't stop liking Duke because four years pass and it's all different students. You don't start rooting for NC because Doherty is the coach. Teams are teams - you stick with them, you stick against them.


If you get a chance watch the 1999 NC game. Every questionable call goes UConn way.

The 2004 FF game Duke/UConn is regarded by most as the worst officiated game in FF history. Don't watch it, will make you throw up.



Thank you

[Kedsy]

Amazing that UConn lost to SMU twice. Louisville beat them by 30 points. Somehow they string together these great performances to win the tournament. You can actually say the same thing about UK. They went from losing every close game in the regular season to hitting every big shot in the last minute to win games in the tournament. Better UConn without Calhoun than Calipari for me.

Yeah, Connecticut may be a deserving champion, but there's no way the Huskies were the best team in the country this season. For those of you who think the NCAA tournament is the only thing that matters, try explaining how UConn is better than Duke without referencing the teams' NCAAT performance.

[Dukehky]

This isn't even close to true. He's been to three Final Fours with UK, and none of them have been vacated yet. He also went to two Final Fours before that, the fact those two were vacated doesn't change the fact that he coached a team to the Final Four.

Apologies for the 2 instead of 3, you're correct, but the fact that they were vacated means he didn't get there, IMO anyways, that's the whole point of vacating them. Not worth debating, I'm just trying to make myself feel better over feeling dirty from pulling for UCONN by putting Kentucky down.

Rodney Purvis did just win a ring though. Way to go State, there's something!

[Kedsy]

If you get a chance watch the 1999 NC game. Every questionable call goes UConn way.

The 2004 FF game Duke/UConn is regarded by most as the worst officiated game in FF history. Don't watch it, will make you throw up.

I was at both games. Officiating is part of the game. Duke lost, we weren't "robbed."

[Troublemaker]

The team that got swept by Louisville 3-0 beat the team that got swept by Florida 3-0. That was my favorite way of looking at this championship game.

No sour grapes here, though. It is what it is, a single-elimination tournament. Wacky things are gonna happen. Hopefully next year Duke plays better in the tourney and is the beneficiary of some wacky things happening.

[Kedsy]

Apologies for the 2 instead of 3, you're correct, but the fact that they were vacated means he didn't get there, IMO anyways, that's the whole point of vacating them. Not worth debating, I'm just trying to make myself feel better over feeling dirty from pulling for UCONN by putting Kentucky down.

OK, but I attended both the 1996 and 2008 Final Fours. Calipari was there. I saw him.

[Kedsy]

It's one play. It doesn't define an entire game.

Plenty of UK fans disagree with you. I understand UK fans tend to be unreasonable, but that doesn't make them wrong and you right.


It's all UConn. You don't stop liking Duke because four years pass and it's all different students. You don't start rooting for NC because Doherty is the coach. Teams are teams - you stick with them, you stick against them.

I agree that a real fan sticks with his own team. But opponents? I can get on board with archrivals, like UNC. But for other teams, sometimes teams are likeable, because of the coach or the players or whatever reason. Sometimes they're not. I wasn't crazy about the Fab 5 Michigan team, does that mean I'm supposed to dislike the current Michigan team? I kind of disliked the Patrick Ewing Georgetown teams, but I rooted like crazy at the 2007 Final Four for JTIII's Georgetown team. I didn't at all like the 1990 and 1991 UNLV teams, but I have nothing against UNLV now. I guess I just disagree that "you stick against" teams just because you rooted against them at some time in the past.

[Kedsy]

Great college teams that won it all - Duke 1992, UNLV 1990, Kentucky 1996, unc 1982. Those come to mind quickly.

Kentucky in 1996 went 34-2. Kentucky in 2012 went 38-2. What's the difference? Pretty much the same with 1982 UNC (32-2) vs. 2009 UNC (34-4). Again, what's the difference?

Also, is it your opinion that a "truly great team" can't lose in the NCAA tournament? I think history would completely disagree with that one. Do you really think the 1990 UNLV team was better than the 1991 UNLV team?

[gumbomoop]

The several moments of Calipari's press conference that I saw, he was generous, straightforward, analytical.

For all the understandable praise Ollie is getting, the less he and his players say about how they were kept out of last season's tournament, the better. I've no doubt they think the NCAA screwed them with the new academic standards. And they'd be especially aggrieved in that regard if they think much about the NCAA's hands-off approach to UNC's scandal.

Coach Ollie and his guys don't need to say publicly that it was appropriate that they miss last year's tourney, but it adds something of a sour note to hear a player express anger at being kept out, as opposed to joy at their rising to the occasion in this tournament. If that resentment/revenge theme doesn't crop up in the postgame interview, good. If it does, it's a sour note, to me.

[jipops]

Napier kinda sorta gave us his own version of Richard Sherman.

[FerryFor50]

The several moments of Calipari's press conference that I saw, he was generous, straightforward, analytical.

For all the understandable praise Ollie is getting, the less he and his players say about how they were kept out of last season's tournament, the better. I've no doubt they think the NCAA screwed them with the new academic standards. And they'd be especially aggrieved in that regard if they think much about the NCAA's hands-off approach to UNC's scandal.

Coach Ollie and his guys don't need to say publicly that it was appropriate that they miss last year's tourney, but it adds something of a sour note to hear a player express anger at being kept out, as opposed to joy at their rising to the occasion in this tournament. If that resentment/revenge theme doesn't crop up in the postgame interview, good. If it does, it's a sour note, to me.

Don't you know? It's impossible to motivate players without the "us against the world" mentality... :rolleyes:

[OldSchool]

Napier kinda sorta gave us his own version of Richard Sherman.

He seems more irritated than happy, both in the Jim Nance interview and the press conference. I've heard him mention at least twice tonight how hungry he is. Apparently he doesn't eat after 7 pm and often goes to bed starving (http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/), so it may be that he is just irritable from hunger.

[gofurman]

Kentucky in 1996 went 34-2. Kentucky in 2012 went 38-2. What's the difference? Pretty much the same with 1982 UNC (32-2) vs. 2009 UNC (34-4). Again, what's the difference?

Also, is it your opinion that a "truly great team" can't lose in the NCAA tournament? I think history would completely disagree with that one. Do you really think the 1990 UNLV team was better than the 1991 UNLV team?

I'll speak up here. To deny that teams were better in the past is crazy. Teams were better ,,,Jordan as a junior grant hill as a senior. Laettner as a senior Tim Duncan and Randolph Childress as Seniors. Put our 99 duke team out there w only Maggette as a freshman and we kill this Uk team. The reason butler and VCU and Wichita State can excel now is the best players leave after one (two at most) yrs and so the middle-class teams (Butler etc) can play w all seniors and make serious runs vs uber talented but under experienced future nba players. Wichita state v UK This year is a decent example ... Coin flip game pitting 6 nba players as freshman vs one (maybe two) NBA PLayers on an upper class laden team

[Chicago 1995]

A few thoughts....

Will we ever see another truly great college team?



We saw one for sure when Kentucky won in 2012. No question that was a great college team. Taking the dislike for the name on the front of the jersey away, that team was a wonderful basketball team.

Last year's champion may not have been an all-time great, but they were the best team in the country over the last two months of the season.

The tourney generated the "right" champion two of the last three years. Probably did in '07, '08 and '09 too. It's a pretty good rate.

[gofurman]

Soooooooooo glad UConn won. Not much better than looking at sad Uk fans on TV. Didn't want to hear how great cal is at "bringing freshman together". When announcers say that I wonder "did they forget the NIT and Robert Morris?"

[Chicago 1995]

I'll speak up here. To deny that teams were better in the past is crazy. Teams were better ,,,Jordan as a junior grant hill as a senior. Laettner as a senior Tim Duncan and Randolph Childress as Seniors. Put our 99 duke team out there w only Maggette as a freshman and we kill this Uk team. The reason butler and VCU and Wichita State can excel now is the best players leave after one (two at most) yrs and so the middle-class teams (Butler etc) can play w all seniors and make serious runs vs uber talented but under experienced future nba players. Wichita state v UK This year is a decent example ... Coin flip game pitting 6 nba players as freshman vs one (maybe two) NBA PLayers on an upper class laden team

Jordan was a freshman on the 1982 UNC team. He was a junior on the 1984 team that got upset by Indiana in the Sweet 16. Neither Childress or Duncan made a Final Four. Hill didn't win a title as a senior.

To your larger point, experience was certainly better on those teams, but there is the difference in size and athleticism that balances it some. There wasn't an analog to Julius Randle in 1992. Not really to Willie Cauley Stein. Guards the size of the Harrisons weren't common at all.

This Kentucky team is a weird comparison point, too. They made a great run in the tourney, but they weren't terribly good over the course of the season, and at some level, got remarkably lucky to beat WSU, let alone make the run they did. Young teams can be better than this team -- even with the talent they had.

[FerryFor50]

Soooooooooo glad UConn won. Not much better than looking at sad Uk fans on TV. Didn't want to hear how great cal is at "bringing freshman together". When announcers say that I wonder "did they forget the NIT and Robert Morris?"

Cal said in his presser that he never wants to coach a team that young again. *yawn*

Guess maybe he shouldn't recruit one and done players exclusively anymore...

[brevity]

We need to talk about "One Shining Moment."

I endured at least 10 minutes of official sponsors sticking dollar bills down Greg Gumbel's G-string every time he said "North Texas" just to see the montage and experience some closure. This was the worst one yet. Too many sound segments and long clips -- including practices?!? -- but not enough teams. Yes, it included the Stanford band guy and the dancing Mercer player -- it had to -- but where's, say, Tennessee? They only won 3 games. Dayton made the Elite Eight, and they got one clip in a locker room. For a while I didn't even think Florida was in the field.

I think the creators of How I Met Your Mother did the montage this year, because they stretched out the first two weeks of action and didn't even get to the Final Four until the last verse, which is always, ALWAYS reserved for just the title game. (I think Connecticut won the championship because Niels Giffey hit a three-pointer...?)

Luther Vandross is rolling over in his grave. I'm coming to Paramus and leaving a Luther Burger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burger) nearby if you feel so inclined, sir.

[Chicago 1995]

Cal said in his presser that he never wants to coach a team that young again. *yawn*

Guess maybe he shouldn't recruit one and done players exclusively anymore...

At some level, he has adjusted. Tyler Ulis, UK's incoming PG, while a McDonald's All American, isn't a kid that people think will head straight to the NBA after one year at UK. Ulis is the kind of kid that can be a multi-year leader, and provide the continuity that so many teams don't have, and that plagued UK this year until shots started dropping the last five games. His other recruits -- Trey Lyles, Devin Booker and Karl Towns -- are more likely one-and-done kind of kids, but only Lyles seems as certain to be in the 2015 draft as Young, Randle and the Harrisons were this time last year.

[tommy]

I can't believe the two worst champions in three decades both came from the same school.

I don't know about being the "worst" team, but I do think this UConn squad will be one of the least memorable championship teams in a long time.

[hustleplays]

In addition to watching the game on its own merits, I couldn't help comparing each team with this year's Duke team. Let's suppose that by skill, pluck and/or luck, that this year's team would have found itself playing either UK or UConn in the championship game. How would Duke have fared?

My own eyeballs told me that both the Wildcats and Huskies, overall, were much more athletic, quick and powerful than Duke. They also seemed more poised and cohesive, most of the time. UConn's guard play was solid. UK's powerful athleticism was formidable. The movement on offense by both teams seemed to me to be much more dynamic and purposeful [again, most of the time].

I love each and all of our guys as peeps, but when I think of our most frequent starting five, along with those few getting additional minutes, it seems clear to me that we would have been outmanned.

I'm interested in what y'all think.

[uh_no]

I don't know about being the "worst" team, but I do think this UConn squad will be one of the least memorable championship teams in a long time.

nah....it'll get remembered like the 2011 squad for being an unlikeley champion. I htink the 2013 UL squad is more unmemorable.....

you get remembered for being really good, or really bad

UNC 2009
Duke 2010
Uconn 2011
Uconn 2014

I think are memorable...the 12/13 teams were really good...but don't have anything that "sticks out"

i have to think hard that kansas won in 08, or florida the years before that....but maybe because i'm horrible biased to uconn and duke/unc....only history can really tell who will be remembered.

[Kedsy]

I'll speak up here. To deny that teams were better in the past is crazy. Teams were better ,,,Jordan as a junior grant hill as a senior. Laettner as a senior Tim Duncan and Randolph Childress as Seniors.

As others have alluded, the only player on your list that won a national championship in his final college year was Laettner. Jordan as a junior lost in the Sweet 16. Randolph Childress as a senior lost in the Sweet 16. Tim Duncan as a senior lost in the round of 32. And in Laettner's senior year, he played for the natty against a team that started 5 freshmen.


Put our 99 duke team out there w only Maggette as a freshman and we kill this Uk team.

"This UK team" lost 11 games. Lots of teams could claim a likelihood of beating them, especially teams that were ranked #1 in the country (including this year's #1 team, that beat UK three times this season).

Also, while it's true Maggette was the only freshman in 1999, that team's main rotation included just one senior, just one junior, and the rest sophomores and freshmen. It's not a particularly good argument that great teams "back in the day" were more experienced than today.

[gumbomoop]

My own eyeballs told me that both the Wildcats and Huskies, overall, were much more athletic, quick and powerful than Duke. They also seemed more poised and cohesive most of the time.... The movement on offense by both teams seemed to me to be much more dynamic and purposeful [again, most of the time].

I think the bold words are well-chosen, and indicative of very important qualities, which qualities this year's Devils did not have enough of.

[Kedsy]

In addition to watching the game on its own merits, I couldn't help comparing each team with this year's Duke team. Let's suppose that by skill, pluck and/or luck, that this year's team would have found itself playing either UK or UConn in the championship game. How would Duke have fared?

My own eyeballs told me that both the Wildcats and Huskies, overall, were much more athletic, quick and powerful than Duke. They also seemed more poised and cohesive, most of the time. UConn's guard play was solid. UK's powerful athleticism was formidable. The movement on offense by both teams seemed to me to be much more dynamic and purposeful [again, most of the time].

I love each and all of our guys as peeps, but when I think of our most frequent starting five, along with those few getting additional minutes, it seems clear to me that we would have been outmanned.

I'm interested in what y'all think.

I think your vision is clouded by Duke's last game. Going into the tournament, Duke was Pomeroy's #7 team while UConn was #25 (UK was #17), and #9 RPI against UConn's #23 (UK was again #17). Duke was ranked #7 in the AP while UConn was #21 (UK was unranked). I guess it's possible that all those rankings were just dead wrong, but I think it's more likely that Duke was a better team than either UConn or UK.

[Duvall]

nah....it'll get remembered like the 2011 squad for being an unlikeley champion. I htink the 2013 UL squad is more unmemorable.....

you get remembered for being really good, or really bad

UNC 2009
Duke 2010
Uconn 2011
Uconn 2014

I think are memorable...the 12/13 teams were really good...but don't have anything that "sticks out"

i have to think hard that kansas won in 08, or florida the years before that....but maybe because i'm horrible biased to uconn and duke/unc....only history can really tell who will be remembered.

You're biased. Terrible teams like UConn 2011 and UConn 2014 are quickly forgotten, especially since they didn't even play solid opponents in their finals.

[FerryFor50]

At some level, he has adjusted. Tyler Ulis, UK's incoming PG, while a McDonald's All American, isn't a kid that people think will head straight to the NBA after one year at UK. Ulis is the kind of kid that can be a multi-year leader, and provide the continuity that so many teams don't have, and that plagued UK this year until shots started dropping the last five games. His other recruits -- Trey Lyles, Devin Booker and Karl Towns -- are more likely one-and-done kind of kids, but only Lyles seems as certain to be in the 2015 draft as Young, Randle and the Harrisons were this time last year.

He only went with Ullis because he missed on Mudiay.

[Olympic Fan]

The 2004 FF game Duke/UConn is regarded by most as the worst officiated game in FF history.

While this is correct, that doesn't mean Duke was robbed that night.

Hank Nichols, the NCAA Director of Officials, did use a tape of this game in subsequent summer clinics and he did call it the worst-officiated game ever in the Final Four. But -- and it's a big but -- it is not because the officiating was one-sided ... but he because it was incompetent the entire game. I do think UConn got some terrible calls in their favor late in the game (Okafor shoving Deng out of the way to get the rebound and make the go-ahead basket), but there were bad calls in Duke's favor too -- two of the three early fouls on Okafor (which made him sit most of the first half) were bogus.

Sorry, but this is a long-standing personal gripe. EVERY team has bad or questionable calls go for them and Duke does too. The Duke haters remember every bad call that goes in Duke's favor and forget the bad calls that go against the Devils. Nobody ever talks about Bruce Benedict's no-call in the 2002 Sweet 16 or the no-call on Rodney Hood's dunk at Syracuse this year.

Don't be like that.

[Chicago 1995]

I think your vision is clouded by Duke's last game. Going into the tournament, Duke was Pomeroy's #7 team while UConn was #25 (UK was #17), and #9 RPI against UConn's #23 (UK was again #17). Duke was ranked #7 in the AP while UConn was #21 (UK was unranked). I guess it's possible that all those rankings were just dead wrong, but I think it's more likely that Duke was a better team than either UConn or UK.

What was Mercer's RPI? What was their Pomeroy rank?

Duke might have had a better season, but I'm less sure they were a better team. More importantly, matchups matter.

Kentucky would have been a terrible matchup for us, and I don't think we'd have had a chance in hell against them. They are huge and physically dominant up front, and the entirety of their offense is predicated on dribble penetration and offensive rebounding. A game against them would have looked a lot like most of UKs tourney games, and most of our losses, I figure. They would have worn us down, and because of our inability to stop dribble penetration and keep them off the glass would lead to a stretch in the second half where we couldn't get stops. That would put too much pressure on our offense, which would settle for too many jumpers and struggle when it counted. Kind of like all of our losses.

And UConn wouldn't have been any better a matchup. We couldn't have handled Boatright and Napier. Given how much we struggled stopping the dribble this year, that wouldn't have been pretty. Boatright is faster than anyone we played, and Bazz is just better. I don't think we could have gotten enough stops, and I wonder how bad our offense might have ground to a halt with Boatright and Napier defending our guards.

I don't think this a comment on us being overrated, so much as that there's not much of a difference between a a 3 seed and a 7 or 8. Heck, there's not that much difference between a 1 seed and an 8 seed. Some of that might be that elite teams this year weren't as good as other years, but I think it's probably also that the 7, 8 and heck even 10 or 11 seeds are better than they once were. I think the talent pool is deeper and the intimidation factor that may have been there in the past isn't as important with AAU ball and the exposure these kids have to one another makes Kansas less scary for VCU, for example.

[Chicago 1995]

He only went with Ullis because he missed on Mudiay.

He was recruiting Ulis even when he was chasing Mudiay. I think he wanted them both.

[cato]

To your larger point, experience was certainly better on those teams, but there is the difference in size and athleticism that balances it some. There wasn't an analog to Julius Randle in 1992. Not really to Willie Cauley Stein.

There was some dude named Shaq, though

[Chicago 1995]

There was some dude named Shaq, though

Shaq would still be a freak today. There are occasional multi-generation athletic freaks. Shaq is one of those guys. LeBron James will still be a freak 30 years from now too. Doesn't change my larger point about the number of larger guards, longer forwards and more athletic big men.

[SoCalDukeFan]

The several moments of Calipari's press conference that I saw, he was generous, straightforward, analytical.

For all the understandable praise Ollie is getting, the less he and his players say about how they were kept out of last season's tournament, the better. I've no doubt they think the NCAA screwed them with the new academic standards. And they'd be especially aggrieved in that regard if they think much about the NCAA's hands-off approach to UNC's scandal.

Coach Ollie and his guys don't need to say publicly that it was appropriate that they miss last year's tourney, but it adds something of a sour note to hear a player express anger at being kept out, as opposed to joy at their rising to the occasion in this tournament. If that resentment/revenge theme doesn't crop up in the postgame interview, good. If it does, it's a sour note, to me.

I know nothing about Shabzz or any of these guys academics.
But my understanding the problem was what other guys did. Which is the way the NCAA operates. Punish those that come behind.

SoCal

[Chicago 1995]

I know nothing about Shabzz or any of these guys academics.
But my understanding the problem was what other guys did. Which is the way the NCAA operates. Punish those that come behind.

SoCal

Napier's graduating on time in May, as are the other seniors that were on the 2011 team, Tyler Olander and Niels Giffey. Alex Oriakhi graduated on time -- hence his transfer to Mizzou for his final year of eligibility.

UConn's suspension last year was based on 2007-2011 stats, and was influenced significantly by kids that left UConn -- either for the NBA or other places.

[mr. synellinden]

We need to talk about "One Shining Moment."

I endured at least 10 minutes of official sponsors sticking dollar bills down Greg Gumbel's G-string every time he said "North Texas" just to see the montage and experience some closure. This was the worst one yet. Too many sound segments and long clips -- including practices?!? -- but not enough teams. Yes, it included the Stanford band guy and the dancing Mercer player -- it had to -- but where's, say, Tennessee? They only won 3 games. Dayton made the Elite Eight, and they got one clip in a locker room. For a while I didn't even think Florida was in the field.

I think the creators of How I Met Your Mother did the montage this year, because they stretched out the first two weeks of action and didn't even get to the Final Four until the last verse, which is always, ALWAYS reserved for just the title game. (I think Connecticut won the championship because Niels Giffey hit a three-pointer...?)

Luther Vandross is rolling over in his grave. I'm coming to Paramus and leaving a Luther Burger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burger) nearby if you feel so inclined, sir.

I had precisely the same reaction. That should be nearly impossible to screw up but they seem to do it more often than not. Remember the silly streaks of light in 2001?

[Duvall]

I don't know about being the "worst" team, but I do think this UConn squad will be one of the least memorable championship teams in a long time.

Who has been worse? Hard to think of a plausible contender.

[Chicago 1995]

Who has been worse? Hard to think of a plausible contender.

I think this UConn team was deeper and more able to generate offense outside of its superstar than the team in 2011, even with the difference in seed.

Outside of 2011 UConn, you have to think about 88 Kansas and 85 Villanova, of course, a 6 and 8 seed respectively. 1997 Arizona is probably in the discussion too.

[Kedsy]

The point is no one stays in school long so you get a result like this year where a good backcourt can win six in a row. UConn is good on most days but not great.

How is that different from NC State in 1983 or Villanova in 1985 or Kansas in 1988. Sometimes in a tournament like this, a team that's good but not great wins the national championship. That was true in the good old days and it's still true. It's part of the tournament's charm.


A game against them would have looked a lot like most of UKs tourney games, and most of our losses, I figure. They would have worn us down, and because of our inability to stop dribble penetration and keep them off the glass would lead to a stretch in the second half where we couldn't get stops. That would put too much pressure on our offense, which would settle for too many jumpers and struggle when it counted. Kind of like all of our losses.

Kentucky's largest margin this tournament was 7 points. Their last four wins were all tied or 1 point games under a minute to play and UK happened to make a big three-pointer in all of them. It's very possible that a Kentucky/Duke game would have followed a similar script, but that doesn't mean either that Kentucky would have won or that they were a better team than Duke.


And UConn wouldn't have been any better a matchup. We couldn't have handled Boatright and Napier. Given how much we struggled stopping the dribble this year, that wouldn't have been pretty. Boatright is faster than anyone we played, and Bazz is just better. I don't think we could have gotten enough stops, and I wonder how bad our offense might have ground to a halt with Boatright and Napier defending our guards.

Connecticut had the 80th best offense in the country. Granted we had the 102nd best defense in the country, but to say we couldn't have stopped them is most likely not correct. You're comparing a top 25 team playing at its best vs. a top 10 team playing at its worst. In that situation, sure they could have beaten us. But UConn didn't always play at its best and Duke didn't always play at its worst.

Sheesh. The way some people are talking, it's a wonder we won any games at all this season. No way we could have beaten a team with Marcus Paige or Tyler Ennis on it. Or Michigan's guards, or Virginia's guards, etc. No, wait...

If Duke had played Mercer 10 times, Duke would have won 8 or 9. If Duke had played UConn 10 times, my money would have been on Duke winning at least 6.